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Saturday, March 19, 2016

Strength isn't resolution

Jerry Pournelle shares a fascinating, and inadvertently illuminating, tale about Arnold Schwarzenegger:
I first met him at an agency party (we had the same agent); he was then the strongest man in the world and that and Conan was all we knew about him. He was very pleasant, and by chance the next day he met my wife in Nieman Marcus — it was a pre-Christmas party, and she was shopping for a present for me, we just having made a big sale (may have been Hammer, it was that long ago). He spent half an hour helping her look.

I know other such stories, all true.

He ran for governor as a lark, and when he was elected he got a pretty damn good team together to draft some fundamental propositions and constitutional amendments. They were pretty damned good.

The campaign for governor didn’t get very bitter — most thought he was a joke and the pro’s didn’t bother spending any money smearing him.

But the long knives came out over those propositions. Nurses in uniform at rallies screaming curses at him although most of the health professionals I know thought his reforms were needed and good; but wow did the unions hate them. It was the same all over: organized labor in particular called him the Austrian Hitler. He hated it. It really hurt him — he has a thinner skin than you might imagine. It got uncomfortable at home, too, what with his wife being a Kennedy clanswoman.

So when his propositions failed, he said the hell with it. They want crony government and gemutlicheit they can have it. Never took the job seriously again.

I’m not excusing him; he took the job, and he didn’t resign when he lost interest in it. He spent the rest of his office years making nice with everybody. Sure he became a joke and knew it, but it was better than nurses in uniform screaming NAZI at him.
It's interesting how many strong and ambitious men - and consider how driven Arnold Schwarzenegger was compared to the average man - nevertheless crumble in the face of concerted opposition. Remember, very few go into politics because they don't care if anyone likes them or not; they go into politics, and they are good at it, because they crave adoration and adulation.

I suspect this is why the Left is so successful at blunting, even turning, the Right on so many occasions; they know if they shriek loudly enough, and they do it long enough, they can cause their target to give up and quit.

This is also why they are so spectacularly unsuccessful with influencing the Alt Right. We simply don't give a quantum of a damn about being called evil stupid Nazi racist bastards. We don't pay any attention to their shrieking; to the extent we listen to it at all, it is music to our ears.

No wonder the likes of Mike Cernovich and Milo and even Rabid Puppies confuse them so much. They genuinely believe that we care what they think, they seriously believe that we somehow, deep down inside, are seeking their approval. And there is no reason why they shouldn't, because past experience with conservatives, neocons, moderates, and cuckservatives have taught them that we do.

And that is downright funny. Useful as well. I shall have to ponder how we might be able to make use of this false impression in the future.

Labels: ,

97 Comments:

Anonymous kfg March 19, 2016 9:08 PM  

". . . they seriously believe that we somehow, deep down inside, are seeking their approval. And there is no reason why they shouldn't, because . . ."

. . . deep down inside they themselves live and die by the approval of others.

Blogger #7139 March 19, 2016 9:10 PM  

They don't yet fully understand we don't care. And when and if they do, fear and terror will overcome them. With patience I await the day of our triumphant.

Blogger SciVo March 19, 2016 9:10 PM  

What kind of man, who is not a racist or sexist or whatever, would not care about being called one? That is the mystery they can't solve.

Blogger Shadowdancer Duskstar March 19, 2016 9:14 PM  

Thanks for sharing that story. I've got his Total Recall autobiography on my reading list, because when I leafed through it, it looked honestly interesting and readable, and I wanted to read how he adapted to being in the US back in the day. Bumping that up to the second place on my reading list now.

Blogger MATT March 19, 2016 9:17 PM  

I love when people hate me in such a way that makes them look like raving lunatics.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY March 19, 2016 9:22 PM  

" No wonder the likes of Mike Cernovich and Milo and even Rabid Puppies confuse them so much. They genuinely believe that we care what they think, they seriously believe that we somehow, deep down inside, are seeking their approval. And there is no reason why they shouldn't, because past experience with conservatives, neocons, moderates, and cuckservatives have taught them that we do. "
The rules have changed.
Great post, Vox.

Blogger dc.sunsets March 19, 2016 9:24 PM  

How wedded to those (needed) propositions was Governor Schwarzenegger, now, really?

Conservatives have no answer to Leftists. The opposite of Left is Right. Calling things by their right names is the first step to clarity.

Blogger SciVo March 19, 2016 9:25 PM  

I actively desire to offend them. And I hope that statement offends them.

OpenID b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440 March 19, 2016 9:26 PM  

. . . deep down inside they themselves live and die by the approval of others.

As a biological necessity, most women do.

Blogger Aeoli Pera March 19, 2016 9:27 PM  

It's interesting how many strong and ambitious men - and consider how driven Arnold Schwarzenegger was compared to the average man - nevertheless crumble in the face of concerted opposition.

I wouldn't underestimate the effect of hormones on this man either. When I stopped lifting and got twenty pounds overweight (college doesn't agree with me) I entirely stopped producing semen. It was...illuminating.

So take that observation and multiply it by Mr. Universe and the conditions in the article, and it becomes obvious why he went back to steroids and fucked an ugly maid.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY March 19, 2016 9:28 PM  

"I love when people hate me in such a way that makes them look like raving lunatics."
Matt, you are something else. You still in the NYC area ?

Blogger dc.sunsets March 19, 2016 9:28 PM  

I like Steve Sailer's notion that in the future "everyone will get to be Hitler for 15 minutes."

He called it the Godwin-Warhol principle.

Anonymous JamesD March 19, 2016 9:29 PM  

I work with a dude that was a big deal Wisconsin Republican. He quit and is basically a Libertarian now. I found out he was from Wisconsin and told him how I liked Scott Walker because he stood his ground. He said, "You know why he's successful? Biggest asshole I ever met. Doesn't give a crap about anyone. That's why I voted for him.".

Blogger Aeoli Pera March 19, 2016 9:33 PM  

I shall have to ponder how we might be able to make use of this false impression in the future.

Well, the way they've done it is to offer compromises from a place of power, then renege and consolidate, rinse and repeat.

The ultimate problem is that right-wingers lack the perspective to make tactical offers because they are narrow/deep efficiency-minded thinkers rather than broad/shallow effectiveness-minded thinkers.

Anonymous Stickwick March 19, 2016 9:35 PM  

Remember, very few go into politics because they don't care if anyone likes them or not; they go into politics, and they are good at it, because they crave adoration and adulation.

Triply so for anyone who also went into acting and was an immigrant eager to fit in.

Blogger Aeoli Pera March 19, 2016 9:36 PM  

dc.sunsets wrote:How wedded to those (needed) propositions was Governor Schwarzenegger, now, really?


Great question. I think he's a Beta (Vox not Heartiste), so he came to the party to have a good time, not to lead it. He's the guy who brings the alcohol.

Blogger John Williams March 19, 2016 9:37 PM  

@3, nowadays, being called either can cost a man his job. The type of guy who cars might just be a guy how wants to keep his job.

Anonymous One Man's Chorus March 19, 2016 9:43 PM  

They use these epithets not only to shame us, but out of a subsconscious (or conscious) fear of what would happen to them if we became hateful racists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDPO8xSd_lE

Anonymous kfg March 19, 2016 9:44 PM  

"nowadays, being called either can cost a man his job."

Quit the job. Problem solved.

Blogger Aeoli Pera March 19, 2016 9:46 PM  

Okay, this is going to be a little nerdy, but I think the situation merits it.

Let y(x) return the value of "what y thinks x". Let y[x] return the value of "what y feels about x".

C = cuckservative
S = SJW
A = alt-righter

A[S[A]] is false. But S(A[S[A]]) is true (that is, a true description of an incorrect belief).

More later I think, gotta work now.

Blogger Ingot9455 March 19, 2016 9:46 PM  

Reminds me of a poster I saw of R. Lee Ermey shouting as a drill instructor. The caption was, "The more you hate me, the more you will learn!"

Anonymous VFM 9054 March 19, 2016 9:47 PM  

I don't know about anybody else, but for me, there is an element of knowing that I am going to be called a racist, fascist, nazi, hating bigot; regardless of what I say, think, or do. So, with that in mind, I might as well be hanged for a sheep as for a lamb. Since they have no sense of proportionality, and start with what they consider to be rhetorical nukes, might as well not bother appeasing them in the slightest, as it won't make any difference.

Anonymous kfg March 19, 2016 9:48 PM  

@22:

This.

Blogger Timmy3 March 19, 2016 9:53 PM  

Suppose Trump won the White House, even if he didn't back down and won some reforms, how long will they remain after he left office? I don't imagine long.

Anonymous Wyrd March 19, 2016 9:54 PM  

Crom!

Blogger tz March 19, 2016 10:03 PM  

I'm not sure if it is not merely "If so many people insist on the fantasy and are going to turn into trolls when challenged, they don't deserve any effort to prevent the impending disaster".

The correct response to Sodom and Gomorrah is to remove yourself as far away from the fire and brimstone as possible - and don't be Lot's wife.

The screams of the left are basically threats to commit suicide if they aren't indulged.

First, you try to talk them down but insist on not being taken.

Then when you realize it is manipulation (even if they are in real risk of death), you either walk away or start shouting "Jump!".

Schwartzneggar probably didn't realize California was a lost cause. Gov. Brown now wants to build a wall if Trump is elected. Can we catapult those we are tired of, who are poor matches for America 1.0, the huddled mass of moochers yearning for a free lunch over it?

Anonymous VFM 3061 “Chief Who Notice Things Make Chief Go ‘Hmm’” March 19, 2016 10:17 PM  

One day, this Chief will tell tribe that Chief Notices was racist many moons before racism was cool.


@26 @TZ.
If Chief Brown build wall to keep out tribe of Chief Trump, will California tribe also be prevented from escaping to Austin Texas? Because if so, Chief Notices willing to work weekends on frontier wall to help.

Anonymous Melonhead March 19, 2016 10:17 PM  

Aeoli, et. al.,

Please look up reactive attachment disorder. The cucks / liberals have been so long without a truly patriarchal government that now when one is presenting itself, they are displaying the symptoms of R.A.D. on a large scale.

The liberals and cucks are acting like children who got their toys taken away for being bad. It is time to be daddy. The wiki article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactive_attachment_disorder#Treatment) lists several modern R.A.D. treatment strategies that could probably be adapted for large scale use.

The most important thing is, though, don't give into the tantrums. Instead present choices (of your liking and approval) that enable them to decide to stop their tantrums on their own.

Anonymous Dave March 19, 2016 10:17 PM  

Ahnold was never the strongest man in the world. Bodybuilding is all about appearance. Physical size, symmetry, and muscle mass don't necessarily correlate to overall strength. Sure, the Mr. Universe level takes incredible discipline, perseverance, and motivation but the results are tangible. People notice you and winning bobybuilding contests strokes your ego.

Politics is a very different game. Celebrities accustomed to an adoring public have never been tempered by the fires of the political process.

Will Trump end up the same way? I'd like to think his business dealings have hardened and tempered him. His presidential campaign will certainly be a forging by fire if he survives.

Anonymous kfg March 19, 2016 10:29 PM  

"Politics is a very different game. Celebrities accustomed to an adoring public have never been tempered by the fires of the political process."

Unlike the contests engaged in by strong men, the judging of body building contests is extremely political, which Arnold was not only aware of, but learned to work like a master.

Blogger Michael O'Duibhir March 19, 2016 10:35 PM  

"Will Trump end up the same way?"

Trump is one tough, shrewd dude. I see him playing the AIPAC Zionists like a fiddle. We'll see what's in store for him on Monday. Folks are glomming onto his movement. Things are hopeful.

Anonymous Wyrd March 19, 2016 10:41 PM  

Ron Unz is running for US Senator:

http://www.unz.com/isteve/ron-unz-is-running-for-the-senate/

He admits his main sources of information are the New York Times, Washington Post, and Wall Street Journal.

(Sam Kinison)Ah-hahahahaha!(/Sam Kinison)

Anonymous Dave March 19, 2016 10:41 PM  

Ahnold retired from bodybuilding contests in 1980 and it was 23 years later he entered politics. In between the most negative personal events were probably some bad movie reviews but generally he was a very popular movie star.

Anonymous BGKB March 19, 2016 10:48 PM  

there is an element of knowing that I am going to be called a racist, fascist, nazi, hating bigot; regardless of what I say, think, or do. So, with that in mind, I might as well be hanged for a sheep as for a lamb.

When I was called a bigot for not wanting to have sex with someone I knew was HIV+ the world lost its last vestige of power.

even if he didn't back down and won some reforms, how long will they remain after he left office? I don't imagine long

People now know they can call the baby ugly. Trump has shown everyone they can be defeated.

"Fairy tales are more than true: not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." – Neil Gaiman

Blogger Lorenzo March 19, 2016 10:53 PM  

Timur Kuran's analysis of preference falsification is useful here. It is also why (most of) academe has so thoroughly fallen -- offer virtue signalling status on one hand and reputitional costs on the other and a status-obsessed reputation-driven industry will collapse into conformity. (Same point applies to media, entertainment and IT.)
http://www.amazon.com/Private-Truths-Public-Lies-Falsification/dp/0674707583

Anonymous Hoss March 19, 2016 10:54 PM  

We don't bow down when the ad hominems and shaming language come out; we know we've crushed them, and revel in the fact. And that, they do not know what to do with.

Blogger Lorenzo March 19, 2016 10:55 PM  

Reputational costs is what I meant. (Bloody autocorrect.)

Blogger Noah B March 19, 2016 10:56 PM  

I strongly prefer cooperation and amiable relationships with people, but this simply isn't possible with those who are incapable of rational thought and who have been successfully programmed by the media. Being called a Nazi by such people is essentially praise.

Blogger James Dixon March 19, 2016 10:59 PM  

> ...how long will they remain after he left office? I don't imagine long.

Who says we're going to stop with what Trump wins?

> Gov. Brown now wants to build a wall if Trump is elected.

Good for him. He's not keeping us out, he's keeping them in. How long do you suppose Silicon Valley would last with the wall in place?

Blogger Cataline Sergius March 19, 2016 11:01 PM  

Their biggest weapon, their sharpest sword was the cry of, 'racist!"

While it can still ruin men individually. Collectively the right just doesn't care anymore. Over the past eight years they screamed it so much the word lost all meaning for anyone who isn't David Brooks.

We just don't care anymore because we can't.

Anonymous Dave March 19, 2016 11:04 PM  

While reading the Iron Chamber of Memory today, a recurring thought kept crossing my mind; who was the evil stupid Nazi racist bastard to withhold this book for so long?

Blogger Cataline Sergius March 19, 2016 11:06 PM  

Ultimately Schwarzenegger failed for two big reasons.

1. He tried to attack all of his enemies at once. He didn't have anywhere near the political capital he needed to take down all the vested interests in one shot.

2. He wanted, desperately to be popular.

Blogger James Dixon March 19, 2016 11:12 PM  

> I shall have to ponder how we might be able to make use of this false impression in the future.

Vox, I suspect your subconscious made this association quite a while ago and has been using it moderately effectively without you consciously realizing it.

Blogger Nate March 19, 2016 11:16 PM  

"nevertheless crumble in the face of concerted opposition"

there is a difference between crumbling before opposition and realizing that your efforts will be a waste of time because the people you're trying to help do not want your help.

Blogger rho March 19, 2016 11:18 PM  

On a scale of 1-10, which is the more likely, a VD message board ban or europeans firing weapons in anger.

Blogger Noah B March 19, 2016 11:22 PM  

The left won't just stop when they find that shouting "racist!" is no longer effective. The next step, already occurring, is to carry out low-level violence, to provoke responses, and to portray themselves as victims and those on the right as fascist killers. Think Trayvon Martin and illegal roadblocks, like we had in Arizona today, on a national scale. I feel certain that this is what's coming next.

Our response has to be solidarity. If someone cornered by leftists kills several of them, we need to support them regardless of what the media alleges. Be ready for this. The instigators who make violence necessary are the responsible parties, not those who use violence to defend themselves.

Blogger Noah B March 19, 2016 11:28 PM  

In other words, rhetoric has reached full volume and isn't working. Shit's about to get real.

Blogger Nick S March 19, 2016 11:29 PM  

Nate wrote:"nevertheless crumble in the face of concerted opposition"

there is a difference between crumbling before opposition and realizing that your efforts will be a waste of time because the people you're trying to help do not want your help.


I see what you did there, Nate.

Anonymous VFM #6306 March 19, 2016 11:30 PM  

Unlike Arnold, Trump is an American by nature. Don't forget that.

Blogger Lazarus March 19, 2016 11:40 PM  

@45 rho

On a scale of 1-10, which is the more likely, a VD message board ban or europeans firing weapons in anger.


I gotta go with time immemorial here. The most recent manifestation of Europe is like when an addict desperately tries to go straight, but you can see him start to sweat and get a sh*t eating grin. Some folks NEED killin', so I'll go 9 on the euros, and only 1.5 on the Voxster.

Blogger Dexter March 19, 2016 11:43 PM  

"organized labor in particular called him the Austrian Hitler."

Um, the real Hitler was Austrian too but whatever.

Blogger Aeoli Pera March 19, 2016 11:51 PM  

@Melonhead,

I'm somewhat familiar with attachment disorders already. Would not be surprised if you're correct, but your advice doesn't take into account the scary side of that spectrum.

Distance or fire.

Blogger SciVo March 19, 2016 11:53 PM  

Playing Trivia Crack, I'm disturbed how much they could discern about their players. Down to how quickly a player answers a question.

Anonymous Dave March 19, 2016 11:53 PM  

To a liberal, you're either a fellow liberal or a Hitler, so I'll never vote for anyone who isn't compared to Hitler at least six times a day.

Blogger Doc Rampage March 19, 2016 11:54 PM  

Aeoli Pera wrote:A[S[A]] is false. But S(A[S[A]]) is true (that is, a true description of an incorrect belief).

Hm. It looks like a rather complex form of fixpoint. Maybe you could get a paper out of it. :)

Blogger Harold March 19, 2016 11:57 PM  

John Williams wrote:
@3, nowadays, being called either can cost a man his job. The type of guy who cars might just be a guy how wants to keep his job.

I've survived 4 sexual harassment investigations. 2 on active duty, 2 since, at different employers. Nothing was ever entered into my service record on the first two, nothing in my employment record on the second 2. I was using the advice in "SJWS Always Lie" before it was written. Funny thing about the 2 on AD were- I was turned in by males claiming I was harassing females. Only found out about the first one because some of the women questioned told me about it, bewildered at why they were being questioned about me. The investigators never got to me. Second time around found out the same way, and the investigators did get to me. And I assured them I had no clue what they were talking about.

Never did find out who made the accusations. Would have loved to make life miserable for them.

Also had 1/2 an investigation. Was told about it by management. I always ask- "Are you offended by off-color jokes?" Well, some who weren't were going up to a delicate snowflake and starting off the joke, "You should hear the one Harold just told me..." She was informed that there was no such thing as second hand sexual harassment, that she had to file against the other women telling her the jokes. Which she declined to do. I was advised off the record to cool it with the jokes for a while. I knew who she was. Someone I didn't even talk to during the course of a work day for fear of false allegations. Didn't even have to ask her if she would have been offended; you could just tell she was one of them.

I'm not a fan of sexual harassment laws. The real harassers, like Monica Lewinsky's ex-boyfriend whose wife is running for president, get away with it. Often because of enablers, like, for example, his wife. In my experience, most of the guys who get nailed for it didn't do anything. One I know did. He deserved being fired.

Anonymous Dave March 20, 2016 12:00 AM  

Dave, I don't disagree with your post but you shouldn't post as me. That's something a liberal night do.

Blogger The Other Robot March 20, 2016 12:02 AM  

Um, the real Hitler was Austrian too but whatever.

The greatest trick the Austrians ever managed!

(Convincing the world that Hitler was German.)

Blogger rho March 20, 2016 12:14 AM  

I gotta go with time immemorial here. The most recent manifestation of Europe is like when an addict desperately tries to go straight, but you can see him start to sweat and get a sh*t eating grin. Some folks NEED killin', so I'll go 9 on the euros, and only 1.5 on the Voxster.

Don't give a shit about Europe, but please, Europe NEEDS TO TELL OUR REACTION, MY GOD.

Blogger praetorian March 20, 2016 12:31 AM  

OT: If you haven't seen it on ZH, yet more evidence that we live in the best of all possible worlds:

KKK-Dressed, Nazi-Saluting Protester Beaten Up By Black Trump Supporter

Trump: Let's Make Didn't Do Nothinging Great Again.

Blogger Chiva March 20, 2016 12:41 AM  

@60. Was a beautiful video to watch. I'm very willing to put some money into that gentleman's defense fund.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY March 20, 2016 12:46 AM  

" Don't give a shit about Europe, but please, Europe NEEDS TO TELL OUR REACTION, MY GOD."
If you don't give a shit, rho why am I , or others give a damn ?
NEEDS TO TELL OUR REACTION ?
O PLEEZ.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY March 20, 2016 12:51 AM  

iF THE EUROS are not willing to fight for their homeland, who will ? kuntz, the lot of 'em .

Anonymous Red March 20, 2016 12:57 AM  

I lived through this era in California. My take on it is the people who elected him were so easily fooled into voting against his propositions. I have good friends who believed the media vote against the very things needed to help the state. They felt like idiots after I explained what they did.

I think Arnold saw that people where too dumb to vote for their own good and gave up. He's not a leader of men.

Blogger Were-Puppy March 20, 2016 1:04 AM  

@24 Timmy3
Suppose Trump won the White House, even if he didn't back down and won some reforms, how long will they remain after he left office?
---

If he's in there for 8 years, that will give me time to get a Food Forest with Electric Fence, Drone Squads, ammo for the end times, etc.

Blogger Were-Puppy March 20, 2016 1:23 AM  

@60 praetorian
KKK-Dressed, Nazi-Saluting Protester Beaten Up By Black Trump Supporter
---

That was hilarious :P
And the one question that needs an answer - when did these girls come pre-bagged? Saves on the beer costs.

Blogger Were-Puppy March 20, 2016 1:25 AM  

I have these vague memories of when Ahnold ran for Governator. Wasn't the circus triggered by rolling brownouts or some crazy thing the governor screwed up there?

IIRC there were 50ish candidates running, one of which was Gary Coleman and some pr0n star or another :P

Blogger ray March 20, 2016 1:27 AM  

When Arn was elected, lots of righties assured me that business as usual in California was Damn Well Ov-uh . . . gonna be different from there on out. I'd worked in CA gov and told them they were dreaming. The Shrivers are old money/power in America; if Arn wasn't in Maria's family purse already, he soon would be. The righties cussed and fumed something fierce, because their manly hero was about to kick ass and take names and fix CA. After all they'd seen it on teevee.

Saul was that way too. Big beefy guy that filled out kingly clothes real nice. The People just loved his look.

Blogger Michael Maier March 20, 2016 1:34 AM  

Vox... thou beist an evil prick.

I do so love being Ilk.

Anonymous Snick March 20, 2016 1:44 AM  

The other reason Arnold failed was that he was being politically blackmailed about the lovechild he has with the housekeeper. He had to cave to spare Maria the embarrassment until after he left office.

It was shortly after he left office that the news about the son came out. How awful a wife did Maria have to be to lose out to the not so attractive housekeeper.

Blogger lowercaseb March 20, 2016 1:45 AM  

67. >IIRC there were 50ish candidates running, one of which was Gary Coleman and some pr0n star or another :P

It was Glorious! That was democracy in action...the democrats were losing their minds. They were complaining loudly and longly about what a circus and how ridiculous the other candidates were. I remember (I was younger and naive then) to some of them that they didn't have to vote for the ridiculous candidates. They could all vote for Gray Davis if they believed he could do a good job.

Wow, did that get me an earful. The problem, that was so patiently and condescendingly explained to me, was that other people were voting for candidates that they did not approve of and were sucking votes away from the "serious" candidates.

That was the point when I realized that they did not believe in One Man/One Vote.

I felt for Arnold, he thought (and I thought) we could all get along.

We can't.

Arnold got out of politics, and I have stopped carrying the stretcher and picked up the rifle. My time here is learning how to shoot straight.

Blogger Horn of the Mark March 20, 2016 1:49 AM  

A hundred years ago, you still had top military men that foresaw a great, even expanded role for cavalry on the battlefield, even this deep into the war.

So it is for the "racist," "sexist," "Nazi," etc. They've been the rhetorical weapons par excellence for decades. Every weapon system becomes obsolete in time.

Blogger ray March 20, 2016 2:08 AM  

"I’m not excusing him; he took the job, and he didn’t resign when he lost interest in it. He spent the rest of his office years making nice with everybody."


I don't think he realized until pretty late that he was swimming in the deep end, and he wasn't top carnivore.

Blogger Aeoli Pera March 20, 2016 2:38 AM  

Aeoli Pera wrote:@Melonhead,

I'm somewhat familiar with attachment disorders already. Would not be surprised if you're correct, but your advice doesn't take into account the scary side of that spectrum.


To wit, distance or fire. Squeamish parents won't want to watch that.

Blogger Aeoli Pera March 20, 2016 5:25 AM  

Aeoli Pera wrote:Let y(x) return the value of "what y thinks x". Let y[x] return the value of "what y feels about x".

C = cuckservative
S = SJW
A = alt-righter

A[S[A]] is false. But S(A[S[A]]) is true (that is, a true description of an incorrect belief).


To make this a bit more precise, let y(x) mean "y acts as if x is true", and let y[x] refer to the responsiveness of y to x in the terms of classical conditioning (ref: emotional closeness). In terms of readability, you wouldn't go far wrong by assuming y(x) = "y believes x" and y[x] = "y experiences feelz about x"

Then we have, for example:

S[A] = false.
S[A[S]] = false.
A(S[A]) = unknown.
C[S] = false.
C[S[C]] = true.
Etc.

Given that classical conditioning is pretty well understood, the game theory of the situation at hand resolves to A) correctly determining the beliefs of the parties involved, and B) addicting the enemy party to false action (i.e. ineffective action from false beliefs) via psychology and game theory (intermittent rewards, immediate punishments, etc.).

I was expecting that to take a lot more exposition. Oh well, I can always sperg out on a different thread :-D.

Doc Rampage wrote:Aeoli Pera wrote:Hm. It looks like a rather complex form of fixpoint. Maybe you could get a paper out of it. :)

Thank you, I understand your heart is in the right place, but I'm just socializing according to the mores of my people :-). "Getting a paper out of it" sounds suspiciously like work, which I'm obliged to inform you is yucky and something to be avoided whenever possible.

Re: the form, it's a functionally defined modal logic (nothing new under the sun and all that), specific to the current situation.

Blogger VD March 20, 2016 6:25 AM  

Since they have no sense of proportionality, and start with what they consider to be rhetorical nukes, might as well not bother appeasing them in the slightest, as it won't make any difference.

Precisely. As I have often said, all the Left's incessant attempts to create "heads's we win, tails you lose" scenarios does is to provide the Right with complete carte blanche.

So do whatever you think best in the certain knowledge that they will respond the same way every time regardless of what you do, so long as you do not submit to them.

Anonymous Be Not Afraid March 20, 2016 7:22 AM  

@45
On a scale of 1-10, which is the more likely, a VD message board ban or europeans firing weapons in anger.

Europeans: 3
Vox being banned: 7 (given what we've seen on Reddit and Twitter, the idea of the leftist tech elite [a bit redundant, I know] doing a blackout of anything non-leftist at some point before November is pretty high; this is why we need a non-convergable alternative)

Blogger Cataline Sergius March 20, 2016 8:14 AM  

there is a difference between crumbling before opposition and realizing that your efforts will be a waste of time because the people you're trying to help do not want your help.

Now that would have been the ultimate trolling.

Go through the entire elective process for a recall

Then read them a quote from Rorschach: The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down and whisper "No."

Then turn around and leave without taking the oath of office.

Anonymous Ryan March 20, 2016 8:29 AM  

In Arnold's Playboy interview (1977) he said two things that stuck with me.

95% of the people need to be told what to do. And..
Religion is for weak minded people.

With hind sight, the first sounds about right. The second..well it turned out Arnie was rather weak minded himself, without the religion.

Perhaps a religious Arnie could have had more strength and would not have caved so easily.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan March 20, 2016 8:33 AM  

I agree with Noah B, crack thru the thin emotional shields of a leftist and you are left with violence. Its a safe bet for conservatives to play "battle of ideas" that for the most part is safe jibberish meant to fool other conservatives by playing gamma smarty pants like George Will, but crack a lefty and its violence all the way down.

Hell a contard won't for the life of him/her even dare scold a leftist for this fear

Blogger Gordon March 20, 2016 8:36 AM  

Aahnuld may be a nominal Republican, and may behave conservatively in his business life, but he married into a liberal dynasty, and worked in an industry dominated by lefties. The domestic pressure, and the pressure from what he thought were his friends and co-workers, must have been immense.

He's capable of great effort and passion in pursuit of a goal. His bodybuilding and acting careers, and his business success, demonstrate that. But he really didn't care that much about politics, and lacked the core conviction that carries a successful pol through the rough times.

Blogger Gordon March 20, 2016 8:41 AM  

Oh, and political capitol does matter. Reagan spent 15 years eating rubber chicken and making speeches for local, state and federal candidates. If there was a Lincoln day dinner, he was there for the county organization. When he lost the nomination in 1976, he didn't pout and threaten a third-party race. He got behind Ford and put out effort on his behalf. Reagan knew how to bank goodwill.

Anonymous karsten March 20, 2016 9:33 AM  

"Suppose Trump won the White House, even if he didn't back down and won some reforms, how long will they remain after he left office? I don't imagine long."

That's the beauty of the Trump Wall. Once he builds it, it would be so prohibitively expensive to tear down that it's not likely that it WOULD be torn down.

No more arguments. It's there.

OpenID denektenorsk March 20, 2016 10:22 AM  

How many nurses did Arnold round up and gas? Hitler indeed.

Anonymous John Steed March 20, 2016 10:37 AM  

I used to be such a useless Gamma until I read the Good Book and saw how clueless my self-anointed judges were. Their finger-wagging was just a bunch of a mixture of Gods` Law mixed up with mans` law til it was more or less BS. Haven`t given a damn what they think since!

Blogger Escoffier March 20, 2016 11:19 AM  

John Steed wrote:I used to be such a useless Gamma until I read the Good Book and saw how clueless my self-anointed judges were. Their finger-wagging was just a bunch of a mixture of Gods` Law mixed up with mans` law til it was more or less BS. Haven`t given a damn what they think since!

The most dangerous thing in the world is picking up the Bible and reading it for yourself. Or as my favorite Kierkegaard goes...

“The matter is quite simple. The Bible is very easy to understand. But we Christians are a bunch of scheming swindlers. We pretend to be unable to understand it because we know very well that the minute we understand we are obliged to act accordingly. Take any words in the New Testament and forget everything except pledging yourself to act accordingly. My God, you will say, if I do that my whole life will be ruined. How would I ever get on in this world? Herein lies the real place of Christian scholarship. Christian scholarship is the Church’s prodigious invention to defend itself against the Bible, to ensure that we can continue to be good Christians without the Bible coming too close. Oh, priceless scholarship, what would we do without you? Dreadful it is to fall into the hands of the living God. Yes, it is even dreadful to be alone with the New Testament.

Blogger tublecane March 20, 2016 12:14 PM  

@51-That's what I was thinking. We already had an "Austrian Hitler." His name was Hitler.

Blogger tycho March 20, 2016 12:31 PM  

> Gov. Brown now wants to build a wall if Trump is elected.

Just build Trump's Wall a little bit longer and tie it in and that lil problem takes care of itself.

Blogger Aeoli Pera March 20, 2016 2:03 PM  

Ryan wrote:In Arnold's Playboy interview (1977) he said two things that stuck with me.

95% of the people need to be told what to do. And..

Religion is for weak minded people.

With hind sight, the first sounds about right. The second..well it turned out Arnie was rather weak minded himself, without the religion.


That said, he wasn't wrong. He was only mistaken in implying there's any other sort of person.

Escoffier wrote:The most dangerous thing in the world is picking up the Bible and reading it for yourself. Or as my favorite Kierkegaard goes...

“The matter is quite simple. The Bible is very easy to understand. But we Christians are a bunch of scheming swindlers. We pretend to be unable to understand it because we know very well that the minute we understand we are obliged to act accordingly. Take any words in the New Testament and forget everything except pledging yourself to act accordingly. My God, you will say, if I do that my whole life will be ruined. How would I ever get on in this world? Herein lies the real place of Christian scholarship. Christian scholarship is the Church’s prodigious invention to defend itself against the Bible, to ensure that we can continue to be good Christians without the Bible coming too close. Oh, priceless scholarship, what would we do without you? Dreadful it is to fall into the hands of the living God. Yes, it is even dreadful to be alone with the New Testament.


Truer words were never heard. Thanks for the quote, and good on ya John Steed.

Blogger praetorian March 20, 2016 3:38 PM  

well it turned out Arnie was rather weak minded himself, without the religion.

Arnie definitely could have used a little religion:

Why would you throw that all away hooking up with one of the ugliest people I've ever seen in my life?

Not sayin' I'm a prize, I'm just sayin'

Anonymous Lycurgus March 20, 2016 4:32 PM  

I suspect this is why the Left is so successful at blunting, even turning, the Right on so many occasions

As John Bolton wrote, "State's permanent bureaucracy is smart and subtle in its ability to “capture” political appointees—by both seduction and intimidation—and mold them to its will, as Powell's entire tenure and careerist influence over Rice demonstrate". (That's from Chapter 16 of "Surrender Is Not An Option".)

Blogger Joe Keenan March 20, 2016 5:32 PM  

A bodybuilder is not set up to be a politician. BB's workout alone and move towards a goal clear only to themselves. They are forwarding looking and everything is structured to achieve the "greater good" their vision. Politicians are none of that, they group together to spread wealth and power amongst themselves. Arnold tried to actualize his vision of California, like he actualized his physique. Politics isn't like that, opppositionally disordered souls will work against someone like Arnold just to subvert him, doesn't matter if he is right and their actions hurt everyone, they'll do it just to derail the vision.

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau March 20, 2016 8:58 PM  

Though I am no Objectivist, I find Ayn Rand had a healthy understanding of the Leftist Oligarchy. I remember a passage in The Fountainhead between Howard Roark and Ellsworth Touhy where the evil SJW is gloating
Ellsworth Toohey: There's the building that should have been yours. There are buildings going up all over the city which are great chances refused and given to incompetent fools. You're walking the streets while they're doing the work that you love but cannot obtain. This city is closed to you. It is I who have done it! Don't you want to know my motive?
Howard Roark: No!
Ellsworth Toohey: I'm fighting you and shall fight you in every way I can.
Howard Roark: You're free to do what you please!
Ellsworth Toohey: Mr. Roark, we're alone here. Why don't you tell me what you think of me in any words you wish.
Howard Roark: But I don't think of you!

The SJW needs us to care about what they think and we do not.

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau March 20, 2016 8:59 PM  

Though I am no Objectivist, I find Ayn Rand had a healthy understanding of the Leftist Oligarchy. I remember a passage in The Fountainhead between Howard Roark and Ellsworth Touhy where the evil SJW is gloating
Ellsworth Toohey: There's the building that should have been yours. There are buildings going up all over the city which are great chances refused and given to incompetent fools. You're walking the streets while they're doing the work that you love but cannot obtain. This city is closed to you. It is I who have done it! Don't you want to know my motive?
Howard Roark: No!
Ellsworth Toohey: I'm fighting you and shall fight you in every way I can.
Howard Roark: You're free to do what you please!
Ellsworth Toohey: Mr. Roark, we're alone here. Why don't you tell me what you think of me in any words you wish.
Howard Roark: But I don't think of you!

The SJW needs us to care about what they think and we do not.

Blogger John Wright March 21, 2016 9:37 AM  

"Fairy tales are more than true: not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." – Neil Gaiman

I thought GK Chesterton said that. Gaiman is a fan of Chesterton, and may have been quoting him.

Blogger B.J. March 21, 2016 11:29 AM  

I continually find it strange how the GOP's biggest concern right now is making sure all of their candidates are approved of by democrats.

Blogger Linus March 21, 2016 5:09 PM  

Mr. Wright,

Wikiquote (I know, I know) says the real Chesterton quote is this:

"Fairy tales, then, are not responsible for producing in children fear, or any of the shapes of fear; fairy tales do not give the child the idea of the evil or the ugly; that is in the child already, because it is in the world already. Fairy tales do not give the child his first idea of bogey. What fairy tales give the child is his first clear idea of the possible defeat of bogey. The baby has known the dragon intimately ever since he had an imagination. What the fairy tale provides for him is a St. George to kill the dragon. Exactly what the fairy tale does is this: it accustoms him for a series of clear pictures to the idea that these limitless terrors had a limit, that these shapeless enemies have enemies in the knights of God, that there is something in the universe more mystical than darkness, and stronger than strong fear."

Tremendous Trifles (1909), XVII: "The Red Angel"

Supposedly Gaiman paraphrased it, thinking to give attribution, but took so long to finish the book that he'd forgotten it was his quote and not Chesterton's.

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