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Monday, April 18, 2016

An impossible conundrum

It's rather remarkable that in this long article about female fans doing to the new Star Wars what female fans always do - which is turn literally everything into sordid romance - that the author can't possibly figure out why nearly all of them are intent on putting Rey together with Kylo rather than with the nominal hero of the piece:
In those days, as now, fan-fiction was a hobby largely undertaken by women; though solid data is sparse, most of it shows cisgender men in the minority by a wide margin. There’s no single agreed upon answer to the question of why this is, but one common explanation cites the desire to create narratives outside the male perspective that has historically ruled the entertainment world. Interviewed by Fangirl Chat in 2014, Maggie Nowakowska, a prominent member of the early Star Wars zine scene, recalled that this was an explicit goal of hers: “We wanted to make sure we got some female Jedi in there because we were afraid the boys would get on it first and the next thing you’d know women were never Jedi.”

Not all fan fiction centers on romance, but a good portion of it does. In many fandoms (The Force Awakens included), “slash” stories about men getting with men tend to be very popular: perhaps for some of the same reasons lesbian porn is popular among straight men, or because pop culture generally tends to create more (and more fleshed-out) male characters than female ones, or because media has historically lacked for queer love stories. Even when the subject of a story is a heterosexual relationship between leading characters, foregrounding romance can be a transgressive move depending on the source material. At one point in the ’80s, Lucasfilm broke with a policy of mostly ignoring fan fiction by sending publishers warning letters because of a story that featured love scenes between Han and Leia....

 “There’s a curve as to which ships are the most popular and which are the least. That Reylo is bigger than Finn and Rey is surprising to me.”

It’s true: Stories by fans about The Force Awakens’s two lead heroes falling in love are far outnumbered by ones about the movie’s heroine and its village-slaughtering villain doing so. One common explanation for this says that Rey and Kylo are simply the most fascinating people on screen. J.J. Abrams has talked about his philosophy of movies being “mystery boxes,” and certainly both of these characters, with Rey’s unexplained backstory and Kylo’s hazy motivations, fit that description.

There’s also a level of moral unsettledness that make them stand out. Kylo is visibly tempted to turn back to good; Rey has more pressing concerns than the fate of the galaxy. Ricca explained it to me in terms of Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs. Rey’s focused on the bottom, on survival, while Kylo highmindedly obsesses over being the best Dark Sider he can be. “Having the two meet as equals is bizarre, and hints a lot of things,” Ricca said. “Some of those things are explored in Interstellar Transmissions, and a lot of them aren’t, because there’s so much potential.”
The problematic fact that they are attempting to avoid mentioning is that Finn is black. The reason so little fan fiction is written about Finn and Rey is because, despite being under constant barrage by Hollywood and the advertising industry pushing miscegenated propaganda, the vast majority of white women simply don't find black men to be as attractive as white men. Like calls to like, as it has always done and as it always will do.

However, the article does indicate the primary problem with science fiction and fantasy today. Most of it simply isn't genuine science fiction and fantasy, it's merely professional fan fiction.

Labels: , ,

196 Comments:

Blogger Josh April 18, 2016 10:40 AM  

(((Kylo Ren)))

Anonymous Jack Amok April 18, 2016 10:44 AM  

There’s a curve as to which ships are the most popular and which are the least

Also, there's be a better chance of it being good sci-fi if this referred to arguments about whether Agamemnon-class Battlecruisers were cooler than Goliath-class Dreadnaughts.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 18, 2016 10:47 AM  

We all know that a Star Destroyer will annihilate the Enterprise 10 times out of 10.

Blogger Ahazuerus April 18, 2016 10:49 AM  

I have a question about the "professional fan fiction" objection. Oh, it's true, sure enough. I just don't know where the line is you're drawing between science fiction / fantasy and professional fan fiction, given every author has a number of prior authors of whom he is a fan, before he takes up his own keyboard.

I assume you are drawing such a line? I'd certainly be interested to know where you draw it, and why? Is it a question of being derivatives? Are there otger criteria?

My objection to a lot of modern SFF is more in keeping with your early point, that it is often no more than poorly written romantic fantasies in space / Magicland.

I concede readily to there being a lot of overlap...

Blogger Ron April 18, 2016 10:52 AM  

The problematic fact that they are attempting to avoid mentioning is that Finn is black.

Didn't see the movie, the one or two scenes I did partially watch were nauseating. That aside, yes, the disparity in fantasy stories is partly because Finn is black.

But also because Kylo slaughters villages, is steeped in evil, murdered his own father, BUT has a slightly softer side to him that he keeps hidden. Dark Triad with a hint of vulnerability. Too much triad and the girl runs, but that little bit of hope that she can tame him is wooooo, too much for a girl to resist.

If Finn had done all those things, and Kylo had played beta male instead, then maybe there would be a more equal amount of stories.

Why? Because of the power fantasy. Here is this high smv male. Now, to be extremely evil and breathing necessitates that one is very good at whatever one does to be evil, which indicates POWER. And if he has a vulnerable side that only this female can see, well, that means she might be able to tame the werewolf so she will be his mate, and then in a few years she'll give birth to a litter of high powered cubs that TRIAD-boy will protect to adulthood. They will be influenced by innocent mama, and devoted to her, and now she has great power and influence through her mate and her cubs.

Think that's stupid? Well, consider the reverse male fantasy. I am speaking of the "wounded bird" fantasy. A man sees some hot slut, and thinks, ah, she is a wounded little bird, if only I can see her secret pain, I will heal her little wing and then she will love me forever.

In reality, she will thank the bozo and then fly away to find the Dark Triad lover that broke her wing in the first place.

Blogger Young Heaving Bosoms of Liberty April 18, 2016 10:52 AM  

"Fan fiction" in this case means writing in someone else's universe.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 April 18, 2016 10:52 AM  

I mean, the third trilogy will probably end with Kylo and Rey forgiving each other and getting married (or declared life partners or whatever).

On Life Day.

Blogger Josh April 18, 2016 10:53 AM  

Also, there's be a better chance of it being good sci-fi if this referred to arguments about whether Agamemnon-class Battlecruisers were cooler than Goliath-class Dreadnaughts.

THE Defenders ftw

Blogger Josh April 18, 2016 10:53 AM  

TIE. Dammit.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 18, 2016 10:54 AM  

We all know that a Star Destroyer will annihilate the Enterprise 10 times out of 10.

Blogger MATT April 18, 2016 10:55 AM  

It doesn't help that the actor playing Finn is terribly unattractive.

Blogger dc.sunsets April 18, 2016 10:58 AM  

"Like calls to like."

Er, well, unless one is an NBA star or a celebrity in a host of other endeavors. OTOH, I'd love to see an authoritative study plotting the duration of relationship against the IQ of NAM celebrities minus the IQ of their white GFs/wives.

I'm betting that the smarter the girl is compared to her celebrity NAM boy, the shorter the relationship. I theorize that people can't tolerate much more than 1 SD difference.

Blogger Escoffier April 18, 2016 10:59 AM  

As someone who is working on the craft of writing I would define a fanfic writer as someone who typically wants to write without putting any actual effort into the craft side of things. I've read some and without fail it was execrable droning crap.

Blogger J A Baker April 18, 2016 10:59 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger dh April 18, 2016 11:00 AM  

Finn is a literal gamma, the one who can't fit in the back. Not reliable enough to be a beta to the alpha, he ejects himself from the pack just before being ejected for failure to follow the alpha.

Not matter how hard the people behind the movie virtue signal, the females in the audience can't get behind the gamma, and instead imagine themselves getting front of the alpha - tall, broad shouldered, damaged, assholish, powerful, rageful and a tiny bit needy. He fights Rey will injured, and neither can seal the deal. Secretly, they hoped Rey would be captured and subject to Ren's..treatment.

Even the SJW's can't help human nature. It infects everything they do, whether they like it or not.

Blogger dc.sunsets April 18, 2016 11:01 AM  

I thought everyone pretty much agreed that SW was fully converged.

Sounds like the fans aren't as converged (or harbor subconscious thoughtcrime) as believed. Maybe fan fic is a reflection of what fans would rather have, as opposed to what Disney's best propagandists can produce.

"Why can't these stupid people just think what we tell them to think?!"

Blogger J A Baker April 18, 2016 11:03 AM  

Thems fightin words.

Blogger J A Baker April 18, 2016 11:06 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Instasetting April 18, 2016 11:07 AM  

"Captain, we're detecting a hyperspatial wave front."
The austere, green coated captain turned slowly on his observation walkway. He raised an elegant eyebrow.
"Its enormous, sir."
"How enormous, ensign. Numbers, please."
"Sir." Another voice comes up from below the walkway. "Object has dropped from hyperspace."

The crew of the Imperial "Decapitare" rushed to battle stations as klaxons blared, and the ship turned from its orbit of Klenn IV, a volcanic planet, to face the unknown intruder.

"Hyperspatial bloom." The first ensign reported.
"Cowards." They had fled, the Captain thought triumphantly. Some alien race afraid to face the might of the Empire had just learned a lesson.
"Objects inbound." Said Deep Space Sensor Tech Halson.
"Whaaat?"
"Four missiles, sir. Very high speed."
"Fire at the ship that shot them." The Captain barked.
"Um....it's gone, sir." The first ensign said hoping that rumors that the Captain was secretly a Sith who could force choke incompetents was inaccurate.
"Then shoot the missiles." The Captain said in a display of dangerous patience.
"Yes, sir. Firing in 1, 2, 3..Fire." Laser Strike Tech Weg actually did a good job hitting one of the four torpedoes coming in.

"Hyperspatial bloom, sir."
"Object, same object, dropped from hyperspace."
"Missiles inbound."

The whole sequence repeated itself on the far side of the 'Decapitare'. The Captain ordered his ship to go after the foe, but it simply waited, took a shot, and fled into warp, and appeared a few light seconds distant, and fired again.

By the time the 'Decapitare' was nothing but streaming ions, the 'Enterprise' had not actually been hit once, let alone been damaged.

===============
Speaking of fan fiction...

Blogger dh April 18, 2016 11:08 AM  

The fact that Lucas and now Disney don't understand what was attractive about Star Wars in the first place is silly. Yes, it makes a lot of money, but the current era will never be remembered like the first two episodes.

They ruined the villains, and now the new villains are weak and unworthy of respectable heros.

There is good fan work being done, the type of fan work that create villains worth fighting. These people for example understood that Lucas misused one of the potentially best creations he had in the new series, a potentially game changing villain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djo_91jN3Pk

Blogger paradox April 18, 2016 11:08 AM  

FN-2199 is a more compelling character than Finn. The Force rest his soul.

Blogger Luis Matos II April 18, 2016 11:15 AM  

I thought it was because all girls want a broken man they can fix if only he wasn't with the wrong crowd. Women respond to game even in their fan fiction

Blogger tweell April 18, 2016 11:15 AM  

Finn is rock bottom as far as value goes. He has no money, no possessions, is repeatedly shown as incompetent, clueless and (the real value-killer) 'nice'. The friendzone that Rey instantly put him is where he belongs. Arlo is powerful, has mad force skills and (the topper) is evil with just a touch of vulnerability. He's like crack to the female imperative.

Blogger VFM #7634 April 18, 2016 11:16 AM  

that the author can't possibly figure out why nearly all of them are intent on putting Rey together with Kylo rather than with the nominal hero of the piece:

Heh. The Draco Malfoy effect all over again.

Ren/Rey might actually be a way to at least somewhat rescue Star Wars VIII, but of course J.J. Abrams will botch the opportunity. From what I understand, the next movie will involve a lesbian relationship of some kind.

the vast majority of white women simply don't find black men to be as attractive as white men.

When controlling for opportunity (i.e., blacks moving into white parts of the country, young black men imported into white universities for their sports teams, etc.), WF/BM is not any more popular than it was in the 1990s. In fact, it may actually even be a bit lower. White women, if they can't get a white man, seem to go dyke instead.

OTOH, WM/BF, especially with low-ranking white men, is exploding, perhaps as East Asian women are becoming noticeably less available.

Anonymous VFM #6306 April 18, 2016 11:17 AM  

Neither of the ships operate according to physics. They should fight in high atmosphere and include ship surface infantry.

No real-galaxy captain would risk the trillion dollar MAD of movies and teevee.

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros April 18, 2016 11:20 AM  

I have zero respect for Finn after his cowardly "you can't fight the First Order, so, run away" shtick. I am not in the least surprised that people would rather ship Rey with Mr Emotionally Conflicted Temper Tantrums than Mr Give Up Without Trying.

Blogger Chuck April 18, 2016 11:25 AM  

Mill & Boon, as always.

Blogger J A Baker April 18, 2016 11:31 AM  

Rey and Kyle are like fifty shades of grey plus star wars.

Blogger Ahazuerus April 18, 2016 11:32 AM  

If you have the capacity to accelerate objects to high fractional C velocities then the universe is literally awash with ammunition, with complete deniability built in

Thus the Death Star is a risible waste of time and money, and the Federation a stupid fantasy, since the Klingons would have long since annihilated every possible rival on discovery. Only MAD could prevent sich a tactic, until the first species could survive without a home planet.

Blogger The Other Robot April 18, 2016 11:33 AM  

Wait, you mean that Star Wars is racist and doesn't allow the black man to be all that he can be and get all the wiminz and menz?

Blogger Ahazuerus April 18, 2016 11:34 AM  

I mean to say.

Blogger Escoffier April 18, 2016 11:36 AM  

Ezekiel Cassandros wrote:I have zero respect for Finn after his cowardly "you can't fight the First Order, so, run away" shtick. I am not in the least surprised that people would rather ship Rey with Mr Emotionally Conflicted Temper Tantrums than Mr Give Up Without Trying.

I was puzzled by Finn. He seemed like feckless teenager, um, wasn't he supposed to be one of the uber cool storm troopers? If so why was he running around flapping his arms like a chicken and freaking out constantly?

Does the Storm Trooper helmet release some sort of 'don't be a big pussy' gas?

Anonymous Instasetting April 18, 2016 11:36 AM  

Ahazuerus, read 'Ship of Law' on that topic.

Blogger L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright April 18, 2016 11:36 AM  

I don't think any girls writing fan fic care what color, or species, a man is.

It's not Finn's color they are failing to mention. It is his lack of alphaness.

I have written about this extensively elsewhere, but romantic stories are quite different from real life. Real life is about having a good life. Romance is about A) the girl changing the man and B) The difference between the feminine and the masculine.

Watching them on the film, there was plenty of dynamics between Finn and Rey...but to write a story? Without the actors there?

That requires drama.

Drama, in romance, requires something being forbidden, taboo.

Why? Because what is to stop any story about Rey and Finn from going like this:

Finn: "Hey, I like you."
Rey: "I like you, too."
The end.

There's nothing else needed. No tension. No drama.

But before Kylo Ren could get together with Rey, one of them would have to change.

Hence, drama.

Hence, something to write about.

Anonymous Broken Arrow April 18, 2016 11:38 AM  

I always thought nearly decade long push in media for black men and white women together was psyops to relate single white women to Obama.

Blogger L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright April 18, 2016 11:41 AM  

Sorry, got off on the lack of drama.

The other thing is: to write anything that even slightly resembles romance, you need masculine and feminine qualities. If your girl is tough, your boy has to be tougher.

Finn is too weak, currently, to carry a romance story with Rey.

I say currently, because they could beef him up, make him an ace pilot or do something else to increase his status.

But as it is, he is too weak.

This is why all super tough girls, like Buffy, date monsters--like vampires. It's not okay for a human man to be tougher than the girl. It is okay for a monster to be tougher than the girl.

Blogger Were-Puppy April 18, 2016 11:52 AM  

The shipping crap has almost ruined Arrow. Which I originally, and still like, due to the stunt coordinator is awesome.

Flash has the black girl/white guy, where the girl is practically his sister. A sort of two-fer.

Legends of Tomorrow I quit watching when they spent the first part of a recent episode explaining how horrible the early 50's were and there were too many white people and OMG how horrible.

I still watch Gotham and Supernatural because they just kill everyone so none of this crap seems to infest those shows - yet.

Blogger Krul April 18, 2016 11:53 AM  

I don't like Star Wars

By the way, have you seen the reactions to TR8R? They're hilarious.

Anonymous Midnight Avenue J April 18, 2016 11:55 AM  

Magic Pussy.

There it is.

Blogger Chris Mallory April 18, 2016 11:56 AM  

@24 So far Abrams isn't attached to the next movie. Rian Johnson has writing and directing credits according to IMDb.

@32 Finn seemed about one step above Stepin Fetchit. I was expecting him to break out with a "LAWDY LAWDY, Feets don't be failin me now!!!"

Blogger CarpeOro April 18, 2016 11:58 AM  

The fanfic author, a creator of a Reylo fan fic, is surprised she didn't create something that was "different", "special" and "surprising" compared to what most female fanfic authors were creating. I'm shocked.

Blogger CarpeOro April 18, 2016 12:00 PM  

@40
Was waiting for Redbox release of the movie, so haven't seen it yet (no, haven't bothered to look for it, hardly ever go to Redbox). From the descriptions here, maybe he is meant to be the JarJar of the new trilogy?

Blogger Ahazuerus April 18, 2016 12:01 PM  

@Instasetting

Thanks. I wll.

Blogger Michael Thompson April 18, 2016 12:04 PM  

I imagine Rey is almost a perfect vessel to write fan fiction about since she really has no discernible personality in the movie. In fact, she is pretty much a Star Wars lead for the gaming generation - she is pretty much just a player avatar brought to life, complete with the short learning curve and the capacity for the viewer/player to project whatever personality into her that he or she wants.

Blogger Were-Puppy April 18, 2016 12:06 PM  

@41 CarpeOro

The fanfic author, a creator of a Reylo fan fic, is surprised she didn't create something that was "different", "special" and "surprising" compared to what most female fanfic authors were creating. I'm shocked.
---

What they fail to realize is:
When everyone is a "special snowflake", nobody is.

Anonymous A. Nonymous April 18, 2016 12:07 PM  

We all know that a Star Destroyer will annihilate the Enterprise 10 times out of 10.

Understatement of the year. Boba Fett's relatively diminutive Slave I could annihilate the Enterprise ten times out of ten.

Blogger Ahazuerus April 18, 2016 12:14 PM  

A Star Destroyer is a death trap, equivalent to a modern aircraft carrier. Couldn't even hit the Falcon.

Anonymous dt April 18, 2016 12:15 PM  

I thought the part with the space raptor was great.

Anonymous FOP April 18, 2016 12:16 PM  

We all know that a Star Destroyer will annihilate the Enterprise 10 times out of 10.

It depends. Is Riker in command?

Blogger VFM #7634 April 18, 2016 12:18 PM  

It's not okay for a human man to be tougher than the girl. It is okay for a monster to be tougher than the girl.

Mrs. Wright
"Monster" would, I'd note, include monstrous human men. Villians. As with the effect that Draco Malfoy and Kylo Ren have on women.

If anything, this affirmative action crap making white women / nonwhites the heroes and white men into the villains may counterintuitively give us a villainous air and improve, not degrade, our sexual prospects.

Blogger Otto Lamp April 18, 2016 12:19 PM  

Good girl falls for bad boy.

It's no more complicated than that. Women fantasize about the bad boy. Always have; always will.


Blogger Dirtnapninja April 18, 2016 12:21 PM  

Kylo is a bad boy. Fin came off as being a goofy clown. Of course the women are going to find Goth Vader more intriguing.

Blogger Nate Winchester April 18, 2016 12:24 PM  

Understatement of the year. Boba Fett's relatively diminutive Slave I could annihilate the Enterprise ten times out of ten.

Impossible! Nobody can defeat the U.S.S. Make-shit-up.

Anonymous Dave April 18, 2016 12:29 PM  

I thought the part with the space raptor was great.

Yeah but no butt invasions!

Anonymous Ain April 18, 2016 12:31 PM  

Boba Fett's the most over rated miner character to ever to attempted to be fleshed out into a major one. Having to endure him as a pouty 6 year old was the nail in the coffin, aside from the actual nail in the coffin of getting eaten by an ant lion.

Blogger Gapeseed April 18, 2016 12:31 PM  

The Star Wars series is stilted and shallow, but if Luke is Rey's father, if does open up something Shakespearean in the plot if she falls for his evil nephew Kylo, does it not? Luke might be in the position of advocating Finn (who shares some personality traits with pre-Jedi Luke) to Rey.

Of course, cousin relations are weak sauce compared to what nearly consummated earlier in the series.

Anonymous Eduardo April 18, 2016 12:34 PM  

Well you people talking about affirmative action and white and black couples. A friend of mine is married to a black man, she is blonde/blue eyes. But as far as I know her husband is quite of gentleman!!! I wonder how well these maxims that Vox like to discuss apply to people outside of the the heavely white first world.

But it is true that fan fiction is filled with man-man action and cute girl falls for really really bad guy. Guess that explains those tentacle porn from Japan! But that being said, in fanfiction the bad guy usually has a soft side to him, it usually male made comic stories that the a bad ass guy is bad ass 100% of the time and all women fall for him...

Anonymous Midnight Avenue J April 18, 2016 12:35 PM  

@ 44 "I imagine Rey is almost a perfect vessel to write fan fiction about since she really has no discernible personality in the movie. In fact, she is pretty much a Star Wars lead for the gaming generation - she is pretty much just a player avatar brought to life"

Yeah, Rey is Bella Swan all over again. A blank slate character of indeterminate proportions and abilities who suddenly discovers some sort of power that gives her magickal attraction - romantic, bellic, angelic, take your pick.

We can project ourselves onto her and become the hero(ine) of the story. And love (sex) follows victory, of course.

The edjumacated females of the past 25 or so years of college literature courses can be comforted knowing their time was well spent in angst over how female feelz were superior to male achievement.

Anonymous Seneca April 18, 2016 12:40 PM  

When the movie came out, a lot of commentators noted several factors:
A. Despite the obvious attempt to set up some kind of pre-romance for Rey and Finn, there wasn't any chemistry there. It looked like she had friendzoned him. There was obvious friend chemistry between Poe and Finn but Poe was obviously the stronger party in the friendship.
B. Finn is a putz. Rey beats him up in the beginning. I don't remember him actually succeeding at anything without help in the film though there may have been some success I missed. He doesn't have strong skills, strong character, or strong convictions (he's planning on ditching the story before Rey is kidnapped).
C. Rey is a Mary Sue. She's good at everything and stronger than everyone. As JagiLamplighter notes, this limits her romantic options.

D. The film has a rather limited cast. Han and Luke are too old. (And Luke may be Rey's father). Chewie doesn't speak English and isn't human. Finn is not suitable. Kylo Renn is a mixed bag--he has emo temper tantrums and loses to Rey in the ending fight (but may have a "he was wounded" excuse for that) and murders his own father. However, if you aren't going to write a romance, the only other option is Poe--and while Poe does have a lot of the qualities that could make him good romance material, he barely appears in the film.

Being black may or may not be a factor in why his ship is understaffed, but if they'd cast a white guy, he probably still wouldn't be a viable romantic lead.

Blogger Ingot9455 April 18, 2016 12:41 PM  

The reason Finn (and Rey) attempt to flee their responsibilities is because Scriptwriting 101 says, "The Hero must refuse the call." Straight from Campbell's monomyth.

Even when it's stupid and the wrong time to do it, it had to happen and that was where they put it.

Anonymous Jill April 18, 2016 12:41 PM  

Who the fuck are fan writers, anyway? I always think of girls who wet their pants at Beatles' concerts. I don't even think I care. Crawling back in my cave.

Blogger SixtusVIth April 18, 2016 12:43 PM  

“We wanted to make sure we got some female Jedi in there because we were afraid the boys would get on it first and the next thing you’d know women were never Jedi.”

Allow me to point out that in 40K there are NO FEMALE SPACE MARINES.

Star Wars, with the exception of lightsabers, is shit.

Blogger LP9 Forever Solidified in Gold! Rin Integra S.I.G. April 18, 2016 12:45 PM  

Excellent analysis.

Gross girls go home. So absurd but a great, urgent point:

"Most of it simply isn't genuine science fiction and fantasy, it's merely professional fan fiction."

I'm a 20 year novice in cosplay but cosplay, fancy wigs or wild clothing isn't remotely about the issue.

Really, women need to back away and let the men enjoy their movies and their own sci fi.

Fan fiction is cute but again leave it to the professionals LIKE OUR HOST!

Anonymous Eduardo April 18, 2016 12:45 PM  

GO TO YOUR CAVE... Before you become a Jill-Sandwich!!!

Anonymous Jack Amok April 18, 2016 12:47 PM  

I imagine Rey is almost a perfect vessel to write fan fiction about since she really has no discernible personality in the movie. In fact, she is pretty much a Star Wars lead for the gaming generation - she is pretty much just a player avatar brought to life,

Very good point.

Being black may or may not be a factor in why his ship is understaffed, but if they'd cast a white guy, he probably still wouldn't be a viable romantic lead.

There aren't any decent male characters in the story period. Not any decent female ones either. Basically, the robot was kind of cute. SJW convergence means zero likable characters, with the possible exception of a child-like one, since that's the level that SJWs relate to the world.

Blogger Feather Blade April 18, 2016 12:48 PM  

@50 If anything, this affirmative action crap making white women / nonwhites the heroes and white men into the villains may counterintuitively give us a villainous air and improve, not degrade, our sexual prospects.

White cis-het male patriarchy wins again! The game must be rigged totes fer sure.

Anonymous cheddarman April 18, 2016 12:49 PM  

"We all know that a Star Destroyer will annihilate the Enterprise 10 times out of 10."

No freaking way, not if the Enterprise is commanded by Captain James T. Kirk with Spock, Scotty and McCoy on board.

Anonymous Steve April 18, 2016 12:55 PM  

“slash” stories about men getting with men tend to be very popular: perhaps for some of the same reasons [nonsense 'reasons' omitted]

Nah.

I'll tell you for why fangirls love man-on-man slash fiction.

It's because they're hideous, elephantine legbeards. Most Mary Sue typists look like that 50 Shades of Grey woman - at best.

And she looks like Rachel Swirsky got dragged backwards through a ditch by a tumescent triceratops.

And appearances matter. Received wisdom on this subject is all wrong.

Most of the time, you can judge a book by its cover. Ugly people usually don't have sparkling personalities. Neon-haired she-twinks with problem glasses and septum piercings are as ugly on the inside as out.

And the sort of girls who write stories about Kirk and Spock doing the pon farr fandango or Harry and Draco touching wands are the lowest of the low SMV-wise. Literal untouchables. The sort of lasses from whom a mere glance would terrify gorgons, gargoyles and gremlins.

No wonder they like freakish fantasies. It's because they're fugly freakish flubbermonsters.

Anonymous BGKB April 18, 2016 12:55 PM  

But But But she is stupposed to be a mudshark, with the cowardly traitorous overbaked clone. We even had Darth Emo put on more fake moles.

The problematic fact that they are attempting to avoid mentioning is that Finn is black.

Don't forget grrl power girl kicked Fukin694U's ass when she thought he stole the jacket of the BEST LARTRINO PILOT IN THE GAYLEXY. A clear knock off of the Common Core story of "The Jacket" which tells people Occam's razor be racist.

It doesn't help that the actor playing Finn is terribly unattractive.

When they flew the millennium falcon up the exhaust of the crashed star destroyer you couldn't help but notice the resemblance to FN694U's wide nostrils.

I'm betting that the smarter the girl is compared to her celebrity NAM boy, the shorter the relationship.

They have to divorce and get alimony before the money runs out.

Blogger Ben Cohen April 18, 2016 12:56 PM  

Why do women turn everything into a romance if they're the practical sex? Men are the true romantics.

Blogger Durandel Almiras April 18, 2016 1:01 PM  

Not just black, VD, the characters social-sexual rank is lower than the Sith whiner.

The biggest surprise to me is that I figured the sexual connections would be between ace pilot man and Jedi Mary Sue, But evil whiny beta with possible redemption seems to be more attractive than a confident jock to the blue died hair and pierced crowd of sci-fi. Maybe it's because atheists like psychopaths more, since they can identify with the character, and they are all about identifying with characters.

Anonymous Michael Maier April 18, 2016 1:04 PM  

“Adam Driver is a good-looking person, and so is Daisy Ridley, and they are two people who are in a movie together, so I generally assume there’s going to be something.”

“Yeah, but everyone in Star Wars is good looking,” Ricca, the story’s creator, replied. “There’s a curve as to which ships are the most popular and which are the least. That Reylo is bigger than Finn and Rey is surprising to me.”

“When there’s clearly chemistry between Finn and Rey in the movie, they feel like people are only picking Kylo so they don’t have to pick a black guy.”


Finn is good-looking AND they had chemistry? What fucking film did they watch?

Anonymous Eduardo April 18, 2016 1:04 PM  

Ben Cohen

They are ninfo maniac sex... Had a cleaaaar evidence of that by beig around my friend and his girlfriend now wife.

My friend female, said to me that i shouldn't get laid to late orrr... Addiction!!!

Well maybe that last one is true... I don't know.

Blogger Sam Lively April 18, 2016 1:05 PM  

Ironically, the actor who plays Finn the Hue-man burst on the scene by playing the charismatic alpha thug in Attack the Block (aka Block Lives Matter).

Casting him as the bumbling affirmative action hero was just one of many bewilderingly dumb decisions made by Abrams.

If they really wanted to play to the actor's established strengths they would have cast him as a Kylo Ren, with the new backstory being Lando cuckolding Han and breaking up the Solo marriage.

Blogger Sam Lively April 18, 2016 1:10 PM  

@72

I thought all 3 leads were duds in the looks department. Ridley might be pretty in RL, but she looked borderline androgynous in TFA. Driver looks like the love child of the Columbine shooters. And Boyega looks like a black lego man. Pretty sad when decrepit Harrison Ford is the best looking person in the movie.

Anonymous Stickwick April 18, 2016 1:15 PM  

In many fandoms (The Force Awakens included), “slash” stories about men getting with men tend to be very popular: perhaps for some of the same reasons lesbian porn is popular among straight men, or because pop culture generally tends to create more (and more fleshed-out) male characters than female ones, or because media has historically lacked for queer love stories.

Slash started with Kirk and Spock, which is where the "slash" name comes from (Kirk/Spock or K/S). The original slash-ers explained that they were too jealous to allow their beloved Kirk and Spock to be with other women, so they turned them on each other. In the documentary, Trekkies, it's obvious that the type of women who write slash tend to be rather strange.

Blogger Jon M April 18, 2016 1:19 PM  

@44: "In fact, [Rey] is pretty much a Star Wars lead for the gaming generation - she is pretty much just a player avatar brought to life..."

Outstanding observation. I've tried to explain to my son the problem with Rey's lack of character by referring back to Plinkett's reviews, but this right here provides a much more relatable and succinct summary of the issue than anything I've seen written to date.

Blogger Marissa April 18, 2016 1:21 PM  

If the Finn actor had been cast as Kylo Ren, Dark Triad and all, girls would not still ship the couple. Your average woman already associates black men with violence, either consciously or subconsciously. There is not enough tension between good and evil that makes a "morally complicated" character like this villain attractive to so many women. I would bet a sum that in fan fiction Mal is more popular than the black villain in Serenity and Jessica Jones' mind-controller is more popular than her black boyfriend. I'm trying to think of other instances where, against the desires of (((Chollywood))), women choose their own kind.

White women already know their men are usually not inordinately violent which is why they are attracted when they see one who breaks the mold. Unfortunately they're not allowed to be heroes as much anymore so they have only antiheroes and villains to admire.

Blogger macweave April 18, 2016 1:23 PM  

But as I discovered in my California days a disproportionate number of young white girls lose there virginity to older black and hispanic men. Very prevalent among those with other issues.

Anonymous A. Nonymous April 18, 2016 1:24 PM  

A Star Destroyer is a death trap, equivalent to a modern aircraft carrier. Couldn't even hit the Falcon.

Star Destroyers repeatedly hit the Falcon, which ought to be a testament to the quality of their gunners given that the latter is the "fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy" and flown by the setting's best pilot.

It depends. Is Riker in command?

Doesn't matter. The disparity in power output between the two is so ridiculously huge that it's doubtful the Enterprise could even cause a noticeable fluctuation in the S-D's shields.

Boba Fett's the most over rated miner character to ever to attempted to be fleshed out into a major one. Having to endure him as a pouty 6 year old was the nail in the coffin, aside from the actual nail in the coffin of getting eaten by an ant lion.

Boba Fett is a great character. The fact that Lucas depicted him as a a somewhat effusive preteen has no more bearing on that reality than Anakin "Let's Try Spinning" Skywalker does on the greatness that is Darth Vader.

The biggest surprise to me is that I figured the sexual connections would be between ace pilot man and Jedi Mary Sue, But evil whiny beta with possible redemption seems to be more attractive than a confident jock to the blue died hair and pierced crowd of sci-fi.

He's supposed to be homosexual, apparently.

Ironically, the actor who plays Finn the Hue-man burst on the scene by playing the charismatic alpha thug in Attack the Block (aka Block Lives Matter).

Casting him as the bumbling affirmative action hero was just one of many bewilderingly dumb decisions made by Abrams.


Judging by the goofy, manic, childish enthusiasm he displays behind the scenes, he's just playing himself.

Blogger Jon M April 18, 2016 1:25 PM  

@45: "What they fail to realize is:
When everyone is a "special snowflake", nobody is."

You make me weep for what might have been had they only hired Brad Bird to make these movies and held Kathleen Kennedy at bay with cattle prods.

Anonymous BGKB April 18, 2016 1:25 PM  

OTOH, WM/BF, especially with low-ranking white men, is exploding, perhaps as East Asian women are becoming noticeably less available

White guys so ugly they have to date a black woman sure as hell are not going to get a boyfriend.

Why? Because what is to stop any story about Rey and Finn from going like this:

Finn: "Hey, I like you."
Rey: "I want to piss my dad off." The end.

Villians. As with the effect that Draco Malfoy

Draco was not a bad guy in the story. He was the only person demonstrating leadership qualities, he showed tech skills by fixing the unfixable teleporter cabinet that overrode the antiteleporter defenses. He had money from what must have been a successful family business. The gamma secret king Harry only has one choice to ever make while Draco must actually chose the right side.

There aren't any decent male characters in the story period.

What about the pretty red haired boy First Order Commander?

many fandoms (The Force Awakens included), “slash” stories about men getting with men tend to be very popular

Fag hags like being around better looking men than would give them the time of day, & they can also go shopping with them. Note that fag hags hold their own purses.

Blogger Happy Housewife April 18, 2016 1:27 PM  

@Escoffier

"I was puzzled by Finn. He seemed like feckless teenager, um, wasn't he supposed to be one of the uber cool storm troopers? If so why was he running around flapping his arms like a chicken and freaking out constantly?"

I think it was an attempt (a poor one) to make him more likable or relatable. It was jarring, instead. Storm troopers are supposed to be elite fighting units. How did he even pass the bare minimum required with his obvious ineptitude?

Blogger Michael Thompson April 18, 2016 1:31 PM  

The closest Star Trek equivalent to the Star Destroyer in Star Trek is probably the Jem'Hadar Battleship from Deep Space Nine, which folks have said is roughly about 1300 meters or about the size of the Venator class Republic vessels that were the precursors to the Star Destroyer. From what I can tell from the various source materials, the Jem'Hadar vessel seems to have the advantage in number of armaments, though the relative effectiveness of the different types of armaments is difficult to characterize, since the two ships occupy different universes. However, insofar as we are talking about number of guns and launchers, the two vessels are similar. Star Wars vessels tend to utilize generic 'laser' weapons, which could spell trouble for the Star Wars ships, as Star Trek weapons have evolved along lines of different energy 'types,' with 'laser' weapons being considered among the most primitive and a type against which most advance races in Star Trek have become relatively immune over time.

Blogger Ingot9455 April 18, 2016 1:35 PM  

There's a reason they put Finn in the Sanitation Department.

Blogger Gapeseed April 18, 2016 1:37 PM  

The Enterprise technology seems far superior. In naval terms, it would be like pitting the latest guided missile destroyer against the HMS Hood. In most circumstances, I'd go with the lighter and more modern.

Blogger Timmy3 April 18, 2016 1:38 PM  

The story between Rey and Kylo never should have happened. The droid is no longer in her care. Kylo has no reason to pursue her. Finn is way too hapless to pursue Rey at this point. He is already in the friend zone. Hey, why are writing about this? You haven't seen the movie, or have you?

Blogger Ingot9455 April 18, 2016 1:48 PM  

More seriously, the original stormtroopers are mentally degraded clones of a superior physical specimen.

The First Order stormtroopers are tortured orphan children. Captain Phasma is not a military bad-ass, she's an example of a woman in charge of such torture, torturing the way only a woman can or would.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 18, 2016 1:51 PM  

@34. L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright


Finn is too weak, currently, to carry a romance story with Rey.

I say currently, because they could beef him up, make him an ace pilot or do something else to increase his status.

But as it is, he is too weak.

This is why all super tough girls, like Buffy, date monsters--like vampires. It's not okay for a human man to be tougher than the girl. It is okay for a monster to be tougher than the girl.


Absolutely right.

They went out of their way to make Finn a feminist friendly hero. And made him dull and unattractive to women in the process.

In Game terms Finn is clearly and obviously, an Orbiter in the Friend-Zone. He would die for Rey and Rey would...feel kind of annoyed that he'd laid something that heavy on her. "I mean, s**t! I certainly didn't ask him to do that!

"Or get Han killed! I was doing just fine, Finn and you had to drag good old Han into this and get him killed by his dark, pensively brooding and sooper sexy son! You are so useless Finn!"

Finn's Force Ghost: "I'm sorry, Rey. I'm so, so sorry!"

The producers have (quite by accident) created a profoundly serious obstacle for Finn's affections in the person of Po Dameron. After forty years they finally got the character of the ace-pilot right. Po is assuredly an Alpha.


Male feminists writers do this all the time. They create a "strong female" that is so strong she can't take an interest in any of the men around her.

Finally in SJW panic they turn their strong female character in to a lesbian because they don't know what the hell else to do with her.

Anonymous Spartacus xxxxx April 18, 2016 1:56 PM  

From the quoted article- Even when the subject of a story is a heterosexual relationship between leading characters, foregrounding romance can be a transgressive move depending on the source material.

Transgressive? Sounds hackles creepo weird. Let's find out what Wiki says that means:

Transgressive fiction

Transgressive fiction is a genre of literature that focuses on characters who feel confined by the norms and expectations of society and who break free of those confines in unusual or illicit ways. Because they are rebelling against the basic norms of society, protagonists of transgressive fiction may seem mentally ill, anti-social, or nihilistic. The genre deals extensively with taboo subject matters such as drugs, sexual activity, violence, incest, pedophilia, and crime...


Transgressive art

Transgressive art is art that aims to transgress; i.e. to outrage or violate basic morals and sensibilities...

Anonymous DT April 18, 2016 2:00 PM  

Ren and Rey. Well...at least it's not Space Wereseal and Rey. Or Vampire Sith with sparkly skin and Rey. Or Leia and Rey: An Awakening.

Re: Star Destroyer v Enterprise

(I can't believe I'm this much of a freaking nerd.)

If we accept the fictional universes at face value and assume a fight to the death (i.e. the Star Destroyer cannot or will not flee to hyperspace), then the Star Destroyer loses simply because the Enterprise can fight at FTL speeds while the Star Destroyer cannot. All the Enterprise has to do is make repeat strafing runs at just above c to render the Star Destroyer's weapons and fighters useless.

That's assuming of course that the Enterprise can't just beam a bomb directly onto the Star Destroyer bridge.

Side note: this was a major plot hole in Best of Both Worlds. If you can beam aboard to inspect the cube and later to retrieve Picard, then you can beam a bomb. There's probably some technobabble rule against transporting photon torpedoes. But I can see no reason why they couldn't replicate and transport a hydrogen bomb. Detonated internally that would destroy anything, even the Death Star if detonated at the right spots.

I'm going to go cry in the shower now. I'll leave it to the Dread Ilk to determine if I'm crying because I'm that much of a nerd, or because I can't get the picture of Leia and Rey out of my brain.

Anonymous BluePony April 18, 2016 2:01 PM  

Shipping mutually antagonistic characters pretty common, though.

I'm told the amount of Harry/Snape slash fiction would make a sane man weep. Or reach the Moon if printed out and piled up. Something like that.

Anonymous A. Nonymous April 18, 2016 2:08 PM  

To give some idea of exactly how absurd the idea of an Empire versus Federation throw-down is, the Acclamator-class, a Clone Wars-era troop transport vessel considered inferior and greatly underpowered compared to the later Star Destroyers proper, has a maximum shield energy dissipation of 70 trillion gigawatts, whilst the phaser banks on an Ambassador-class starship like the Enterprise have a maximum output of about 3.5 gigawatts. Really though, this sort of disparity is only to be expected, given that humans in Star Trek have been spacefaring for a few centuries whereas in Star Wars, interstellar space travel goes back roughly 25,000 years without interruption. The Empire is the latest iteration of a mature and very, very old civilisation, in comparison to which Earth's Starfleet is basically a gaggle of spear-chucking primitives, all their airs notwithstanding.

OpenID aegis-1080 April 18, 2016 2:13 PM  

Even emo faggots are better than the betas written as protagonists these days. So sad.

Also "fanfiction" these days is basically self-insert romance for teen girls and bored housewives.

On Star Wars, I don't know how people can stand dull J.J. Abrams movies. They are so boring. At least Bayformers tries to be entertaining. It fails, but there's SOME effort.

"Finally in SJW panic they turn their strong female character into a lesbian because they don't know what the hell else to do with her."

The Korra syndrome. Probably happening on Star Wars too, after another movie is done and "Finn sucks" sinks.

Blogger Raziel Walker April 18, 2016 2:15 PM  

Make post before checking I am not just parroting someone, delete everything.
#34 said it better.

Blogger Krul April 18, 2016 2:26 PM  

It's clear what's happened to Star Wars. Consider Rey. Then consider the Rogue One trailer. Another supercilious "badass" teenage action girl in a flashy scifi setting.

You see what's going on here? Disney bought Star Wars and now they're turning it into another Hunger Games clone. They're shooting for the same tween girl demographic as all those YA book movies that have made so much money recently. That's why those poor Star Wars fans have these absurd cookie-cutter Mary Sues shoved in their faces and their canon lore shredded.

Blogger bob k. mando April 18, 2016 2:29 PM  

42. CarpeOro April 18, 2016 12:00 PM
maybe he is meant to be the JarJar of the new trilogy?



no, Jarjar was comedy relief. he was supposed to be the new C3PO. BB8 is probably the closest thing to comedy in the new film, but he's more over towards the cute/cool of R2D2. of course, C3PO is back ... but doesn't really do much.

Finn is the conflicted stormtrooper who has gone ... Rebel? even though it's actually the 'Empire' troops who are in rebellion? i dunno. JJBrams isn't actually that bright.

Finn *would* have been more 'awesome', except they had to make room for the white female Mary Sue.



72. Michael Maier April 18, 2016 1:04 PM
Finn is good-looking AND they had chemistry?



hell, i can't see how Adam Driver is supposed to be good looking. i mean, sure, he's not fat.

but every time i look at him all i can see is that lopsided jaw ( look how much larger the left side of his face is ) and the huge honker sitting on the front of his face.

i dunno. i'm not a chick. maybe there's something i'm missing?


75. Sam Lively April 18, 2016 1:10 PM
Ridley might be pretty in RL, but she looked borderline androgynous in TFA.



my sister thinks Ridley will have cankles in a couple of years.



76. Stickwick April 18, 2016 1:15 PM
The original slash-ers explained that they were too jealous to allow their beloved Kirk and Spock to be with other women, so they turned them on each other.



and so the adage is proved correct once again ...

Kirk / Spock was popular because feminist women can map themselves into the relationship as Kirk ...

because that's how feminist women want their real life hetero relationships to be.

Spock is physically much stronger, more intelligent and rational. and usually wrong ( bu-whuh? ), when disagreeing with Kirk.

Kirk is weaker, less intelligent and regularly advocates a more 'emotional' way of dealing with the world. he also holds all the actual power and authority in the relationship. and Kirk's authority is fully backed by the power of the State / Federation.

notice any similarities to Real Life?



77. Jon M April 18, 2016 1:19 PM
by referring back to Plinkett's reviews



the Plinkett awakes.

i expect his take down of TFA is going to be awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sU7bsDhgxU

Blogger Pseudotsuga April 18, 2016 2:29 PM  

@82 "Draco was not a bad guy in the story. He was the only person demonstrating leadership qualities, he showed tech skills by fixing the unfixable teleporter cabinet that overrode the antiteleporter defenses. He had money from what must have been a successful family business. The gamma secret king Harry only has one choice to ever make while Draco must actually chose the right side."

I suspect that the Malfoys would never sully their hands with something so crass as "commerce." In Rowling's class-conscious-Brit-world, the Malfoys are Old Money gentlefolk, with aristocratic income from land holdings and inheritance. Other than that, carry on BKGB-- your analysis makes sense here.
It's the bad-boy alpha which is the attraction in Star Wars whether than bad boy be Darth Vader or Han Solo. Poor Lando Calrissian gets no love, even though he is just as much a rogue as his old buddy Han.

Blogger Krul April 18, 2016 2:33 PM  

bob k. mando wrote:the Plinkett awakes.

i expect his take down of TFA is going to be awesome.



I hope so, but expect not so. Mike said he liked TFA, IIRC.

Blogger Nate Winchester April 18, 2016 2:35 PM  

even though he is just as much a rogue as his old buddy Han.

He WAS, but then he got himself a nice business going and had to settle down.

Blogger Nate Winchester April 18, 2016 2:36 PM  

I hope so, but expect not so. Mike said he liked TFA, IIRC.

At 4 in the morning after just watching the movie. I'm pretty sure with some time & distance, letting the ration part of the brain process things he'll end up being as rough on it as he was with the prequels.

Anonymous Stickwick April 18, 2016 2:43 PM  

bob k. mando: i expect his take down of TFA is going to be awesome.

Not gonna happen. Mike already favorably reviewed TFA on Half in the Bag. You have to understand that Mike is a film school guy and professional videographer, and isn't as interested in social commentary as he is in basic moviemaking and storytelling. Structurally, there was nothing wrong with TFA. In fact, I suspect Abrams watched the Plinkett reviews of the prequels before he made TFA, because of some of the choices he made.

Anonymous Michael Maier April 18, 2016 2:49 PM  

bob k. mando April 18, 2016 2:29 PM

72. Michael Maier April 18, 2016 1:04 PM
Finn is good-looking AND they had chemistry?

hell, i can't see how Adam Driver is supposed to be good looking. i mean, sure, he's not fat.


I stayed far, far, far away from all pre-release videos and "spoilers" so I didn't see the actor was even involved until opening night.

He unmasked and I couldn't help but be pissed that the new "Darth" looked damned gay. Bad enough he was emo...

I am still sort of shocked that I cannot see myself ever watching Epi 7 again. That sounds insane in my own head but there it is.

I sure as Hell will never pay to see "Rogue One".

Blogger Sam Lively April 18, 2016 2:56 PM  

@102

There was plenty wrong with TFA on a basic moviemaking and storytelling level.

It was a dull, lazy, sloppy movie with fantastic visuals. Without the residual momentum of the original trilogy, the extraordinarily low bar of the prequels, and the Diversity Now! brownie points, it would have been widely panned.

Blogger Krul April 18, 2016 3:00 PM  

I expect Plinkett's TFA review to be about the same as his review of another JJ Abrams flick that he liked, Star Trek '09. Much too forgiving.

Anonymous tublecane April 18, 2016 3:14 PM  

Aside from one being white and the other black, there is zero chemistry between Rey and Finn. There isn't even any negative chemistry. They are more forgettable together than they are unworkable together.

Also, Finn is written like as childlike. He fills the some of the same purposes I assume were intended for Jar Jar Binks, which is to be funny and to provide perspective for little kids in the audience. That doesn't make him ripe for romance.

Then there are all the psycho-sexual reasons Rey would prefer Goth Vader, despite him being a secret whiney teenager.

Anonymous Stickwick April 18, 2016 3:21 PM  

Sam Lively: There was plenty wrong with TFA on a basic moviemaking and storytelling level.

Sez you. It was a good, basic movie, nothing more. In any case, the Plinkett reviews are for movies that are total cinematic disasters, which no one can seriously argue TFA was. Whatever flaws TFA has, they don't even come close to the epically fatal problems with the prequels. Consider the main problems with TPM highlighted by Plinkett:

- no main character
- flat, boring, ill-defined characters
- an overly complicated and uncompelling storyline
- a cascade of logical inconsistencies in the story that ultimately collapse the entire movie
- horrible dialogue / clunky delivery / bad direction
- ineffective action sequences
- very few practical sets
- very little location shooting

None of these were problems in TFA. There was one problem with the prequels addressed by Plinkett that has been applied to TFA, which is over-reliance on callbacks to the original trilogy for nostalgia value. However, this isn't a legitimate criticism. As Mike points out in his review, it was necessary for Abrams to go back to the basic story structure of Ep IV and lay it on thick with the callbacks to re-establish audience trust. He called TFA a soft reboot, which is exactly what it is.

Blogger VFM #7634 April 18, 2016 3:23 PM  

It's the bad-boy alpha which is the attraction in Star Wars whether than bad boy be Darth Vader or Han Solo. Poor Lando Calrissian gets no love, even though he is just as much a rogue as his old buddy Han.

Lando and Luke are both Deltas. Hence average, and hence unable to get all the fantasizing from the women.

Then there are all the psycho-sexual reasons Rey would prefer Goth Vader, despite him being a secret whiney teenager.

IIRC Kylo Ren, emo angst notwithstanding, did manage to hide it all from Rey. Instead he tried to dominate her.

The only man who tried to, I might add.

Of course, being a fictional character created by people with SJW predilections, he ends up being depicted as a Sigma/Gamma hybrid, which doesn't exist in real life. The Sigma side appeals to the women, possibly because they fantasize that he has a soft Gamma core which is shown in the movie.

Blogger CM April 18, 2016 3:30 PM  

I don't think any girls writing fan fic care what color, or species, a man is.

It's not Finn's color they are failing to mention. It is his lack of alphaness.


If the Finn actor had been cast as Kylo Ren, Dark Triad and all, girls would not still ship the couple. Your average woman already associates black men with violence, either consciously or subconsciously.

Is it possible to agree with both of these statements without being contradictory?

In fan-fic (or any type of writing/reading), the reader can ignore superficial descriptors of skin color or handsome/ugly. They see what they want to see. So in writing, it isn't that Finn is black, its that he isn't alpha. If a white women read about a black kylo, he'd be white in her head. If the romantic hero were described as ugly, but held all the alpha behaviors women are attracted to, she'd visualize someone still better looking than anyone she knows irl.

However, as Marissa said, when actually forced to connect the visuals (as in movies) to the characters, it can actually cause problems.

@82
I actually liked Longbottom the best. Weak and pathetic in ability and skill, but made the right choices even when they could have unfavorable consequences. He was kinda normal and Good with strength of character. I guess he was the Delta? Which seems to be consistent for me...

Blogger Nate Winchester April 18, 2016 3:34 PM  

None of these were problems in TFA. There was one problem with the prequels addressed by Plinkett that has been applied to TFA, which is over-reliance on callbacks to the original trilogy for nostalgia value.

There's one other problem both have that is often overlooked (even by Plinkett - and I say plinkett because I'm pretty sure most of RLM contributes to his thoughts): Story Shift.

Consider, episode 1 (E1). What is most of the first half of the movie about? Getting to the core worlds/contacting the Senate. We must reach the Senate, we must tell the Senate, etc. Then halfway through the movie what happens? They reach the Senate and... nothing happens. It's made even worse when the Queen realizes she has to go back and fight, meaning most of the movie was pointless, they could have stayed on one planet the entire time.

Likewise E7. What is the first half of this movie about? Luke! We must find Luke, everybody wants Luke. Then halfway through what happens? New Death Star! Why was everyone more concerned about Luke and not that thing? Was he going to help blow it up or something? Again the first half of the movie is rendered... entirely pointless.

Anonymous Stickwick April 18, 2016 3:42 PM  

Krul: I expect Plinkett's TFA review to be about the same as his review of another JJ Abrams flick that he liked, Star Trek '09. Much too forgiving.

I forgot he reviewed ST2009, which wasn't a disaster. I initially thought he was off-base, because I didn't like the movie, myself, but if you pay close attention to what he says about ST2009 and Into Darkness, you see that he wasn't too forgiving; he got it exactly right. (See the teaser "review" here, which more or less gets the point across.)

A lot of criticism is a matter of taste, but like every movie critic worth his salt, Mike understands that the main task of a critic is to judge a movie on what it intends to be, not on what you want it to be. A classic example is Ebert giving Aliens 3.5/4 stars, even though he clearly didn't like the movie. He said he rated it highly, because it delivered exactly what it promised. Now, Mike seemed to like ST2009, but it was fair to give it a good review in any case, because it delivered on what it intended to be, which was a flashy, fast-paced, throwaway action movie.

Blogger L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright April 18, 2016 3:46 PM  

@89 Cataline

They made Korra a lesbian because she was basically the most masculine character in the story.... Tough and strong. And they did not introduce any masculine figures worthy of a romance...because he would have had to be stronger than her.

One of the villains in the final season was pretry strong. He could have become a love interest... But they turned him into a personalityless thug instead.

Anonymous tublecane April 18, 2016 3:53 PM  

@72-Daisy Ridley may be good looking in some sense, but she's definitely not feminine looking. Which means she's not attractive to the general audience, male and female. Because despite what you may have learned, women prefer women to look like women, too. So I don't think it's any surprise romance had to be cooked up by the mostly weirdos who write fanfic.

I wasn't thinking about romance whatsoever while watching the movie. There wasn't any in there, except conceivably when there was a bit of a connection between Rey and Goth Vader when he captured her and when they were fighting. But I assume that's because they're cousins, or something. Maybe when Han Solo and "General" Leia met, but only if you had previous movies in mind. Not because of anything they showed us.

If Rey had been at all feminine and attractive we'd be wondering the whole time why Finn, Poe, Solo, Darth Emo, etc. aren't trying to get with her. Just like we wondered which one would get with Leia, Han or Luke. But that didn't come up, because Rey was as frigid as the day is long.

Fanfic writers have to come up with alternatives to explain the romance/sex they have in their heads often for no good reason, and the best only key to gettin' some in the current Star Wars movie is the Bad Boy qualities of the whiney teen villain. Maybe you could go the daddy route with Han Solo or Luke and Rey. But that's a longer shot. Poe and Rey would make more sense, but Poe is barely in it for two seconds, and why would he be interested in Rey? And besides, "slash" fiction is bored by normal heterosexual relationships.

Anonymous Stickwick April 18, 2016 3:55 PM  

Nate Winchester: Then halfway through what happens? New Death Star! Why was everyone more concerned about Luke and not that thing? Was he going to help blow it up or something? Again the first half of the movie is rendered... entirely pointless.

By the third Death Star, you'd be pretty blasé about it, too. The last remaining Jedi is kinda important if you want to re-defeat the Dark Side, ya know. And we don't know that it's pointless unless and until Ep VIII screws things up.

(even by Plinkett - and I say plinkett because I'm pretty sure most of RLM contributes to his thoughts)

Most of RLM? It's just Mike and Jay.

Anonymous tublecane April 18, 2016 3:58 PM  

@107-The Force Awakens was better than the prequels. But that's a low bar.

Anonymous tublecane April 18, 2016 4:03 PM  

@110-One of the reasons the plot of the new movie was so screwed up is because it was basically a remake of Star Wars One, but they didn't want to be so obvious about it. So they shuffled the scenes around. But that made very little make sense up until the end, when action movie tropes took over.

Blogger Nate Winchester April 18, 2016 4:03 PM  

By the third Death Star, you'd be pretty blasé about it, too. The last remaining Jedi is kinda important if you want to re-defeat the Dark Side, ya know. And we don't know that it's pointless unless and until Ep VIII screws things up.

We're not talking about the saga as a whole but the movie as a movie and story. And within that movie it's a simple fact that the plot abruptly shifts focus.

Most of RLM? It's just Mike and Jay.

Thou shall not forget nor forsake thy Rich Evans!

Blogger Krul April 18, 2016 4:09 PM  

Nate Winchester wrote:Most of RLM? It's just Mike and Jay.

Thou shall not forget nor forsake thy Rich Evans!


Who care's? They're all hack frauds anyway.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 18, 2016 4:12 PM  

Dance, my puppets, dance!

Phasers! Turbo lasers!

You have all tasted of the bait of my trap!

Blogger L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright April 18, 2016 4:16 PM  

I should write a post at some point on fan fic. I see the term fan fic used two ways. The first is when someone writes a story in someone else's background. I don't think of that as fan fic. I think of it as something else, a "tie-in story"? Even when it is done by "fans."

The other meaning of fan fic is: Writing a story where the characters do what you want them to do, instead of what they would organically do.

So...a story where Spock has an affair with a hot earth girl who looks like the author? Fan fic.

Story where Harry Potter lears at Hermione (I read a line like that recently over the shoulder of a house guest who was reading fan fic)...fan fic.

Story where any character acts uncharacteristically romantic or violent to meet the author's need...fan fic.

Under this definition, however, it doesn't matter if the story is amateur or professional.

So...

Spock is dating Ahura with no set up and no explanation of how she broke through his tremendous species-related resistance?

Fan fic.

Superman breaks someone's neck?

Fan fic.

Blogger L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright April 18, 2016 4:18 PM  

Okay...story where Harry King Lear's Hermione is also fan fic, but a different type from where he leers at her.

Blogger Krul April 18, 2016 4:24 PM  

L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright wrote:Spock is dating Ahura with no set up and no explanation of how she broke through his tremendous species-related resistance?

Fan fic.

Superman breaks someone's neck?

Fan fic.


The Hobbit is now a tragicomical romance about an incongruous "badass" elf girl and an unaccountably pretty dwarf? Cartoon antics, a sleigh pulled by rabbits, and the sand worms from Dune?

Fan fic

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 18, 2016 4:25 PM  

@112. L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright

I'd noticed that one myself. And snarled about it at my place.

Trigger warning, foul mouthed and the writing is nowhere near as good as your husband's.

Anonymous cheddarman April 18, 2016 4:44 PM  

The U.S.S. Enterprise has photon torpedoes.

They contain antimatter.

Matter plus antimatter makes a big "boom" and would annihilate the Star Destroyers.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 18, 2016 4:52 PM  

So then why does it take multiple photon torpedoes to destroy something like ANY SHIP IN STAR TREK?

Anonymous WinstonWebb April 18, 2016 4:53 PM  

The U.S.S. Enterprise has photon torpedoes.

They contain antimatter.

Matter plus antimatter makes a big "boom" and would annihilate the Star Destroyers.


And there is no form of shielding that can stop a photon torpedo?
Well, fuck Kirk and Picard. The Federation clearly doesn't need them. A skeleton crew of ensigns and a payload of photon torpedoes is all that's needed to dominate the universe!

Anonymous BGKB April 18, 2016 4:53 PM  

By the third Death Star, you'd be pretty blasé about it, too.

By then they will just have a shoot the exhaust port program for all the rebel droids. R9D3 run Deathstar program.

Blogger Krul April 18, 2016 4:54 PM  

cheddarman wrote:The U.S.S. Enterprise has photon torpedoes.

They contain antimatter.

Matter plus antimatter makes a big "boom" and would annihilate the Star Destroyers.


Fie and foo. Ender and the Little Doctor could kick both their asses

Blogger Sam Lively April 18, 2016 5:12 PM  

Stickwick wrote:Sam Lively: There was plenty wrong with TFA on a basic moviemaking and storytelling level.

Whatever flaws TFA has, they don't even come close to the epically fatal problems with the prequels. Consider the main problems with TPM highlighted by Plinkett:

- no main character

- flat, boring, ill-defined characters

- an overly complicated and uncompelling storyline

- a cascade of logical inconsistencies in the story that ultimately collapse the entire movie

- horrible dialogue / clunky delivery / bad direction

- ineffective action sequences

- very few practical sets

- very little location shooting

None of these were problems in TFA.


As I said before, the ridiculously low bar set by the prequels regularly distorts evaluation of TFA. People say "Well it wasn't a complete and utter turd like Phantom" as if that's some kind of vindication.

It's not. And TFA does indeed have many of the problems of the prequels. While it thankfully avoided the largely pointless and clumsily handled complexity of the prequels, it went too far in the other direction, undershooting even the simplicity of the OT.

You can't just give a sequel a pass on creativity and logical consistency by calling it a "soft reboot." They lazily reanimated the aesthetically appealing elements of the OT and just slapped new names on things. The narrative elements they lifted from the OT they butchered - the Ren/Solo bridge scene was stilted, awkward and owed what little emotional impact it had to the residual affection we had for the old Han Solo (the TFA Han Solo was a pathetic failure who somehow managed to piss away everything that he had gained by the end of ROTJ).

There were also huge fundamental issues. People crap on Rey's omnipotence as SJWism run amuk, but magic competence at every turn is more than that - it's bad storytelling. There was no creative problem-solving, they just pointed Rey at everything like a human Crystal Skull and voila.

Meanwhile horrible dialogue and clunky delivery marred huge sections of the script - the Po/Finn "banter" early was completely off-timing and tone-deaf. As was the relationship between Finn and Rey.

It was not as bad as the prequels, but it was bad all the same.

I wanted to work Jar Jar Abrams in there somewhere but I'm just leaving it here.

Anonymous Stickwick April 18, 2016 5:16 PM  

Nate Winchester: Thou shall not forget nor forsake thy Rich Evans!

Oh, I see, you're referring to the whole Best of the Worst gang. Yeah, who could forget that Rich Evans with that laugh? Or the bald guy and the beardy guy, whatever their names are. But it sounds like the Plinkett reviews are all Mike and Jay.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 18, 2016 5:17 PM  

@Animal Mother

Okay!

Fine!

You want me to go there?

I'll go there.

Question: Is there one single thing you can point to in Star Trek and say, "that ruined Star Trek."

Answer: No, there is not. It has some low points to be certain but there is nothing you can point to and say, "that ruined Star Trek"

Question: Is there anyone thing you can point to and say "that ruined Star Wars?"

Answer:

Anonymous Stickwick April 18, 2016 5:20 PM  

Sam Lively: You can't just give a sequel a pass on creativity and logical consistency by calling it a "soft reboot."

Yes, you can. If Ep VIII ends up being a rehash of Eps V and/or VI, then it's all laziness. Otherwise, the soft reboot is a legitimate way to deal with audience alienation caused by the horribleness of the prequels.

Anonymous Eduardo April 18, 2016 5:32 PM  

Well... What was so horrible about the prequels???

They had so many great visuals and they are lots of mindless fun... Never got what was so horrible about it all.

Actually all I hear is that it is all pretty subpar.

Anonymous Eduardo April 18, 2016 5:34 PM  

Star trek is nothing more than a secular humanist dude's worldview in a space dressing... That ruined star trek U___Ū

Blogger Sam Lively April 18, 2016 5:43 PM  

@132

I don't see how extreme laziness in storytelling is justified by the awfulness of the prequels.

You deal with audience alienation by providing quality, not slapping half-microwaved leftovers in front of them and counting on them wolfing it down because they are starving.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 18, 2016 5:46 PM  

@133 Eduardo

The problem with the prequels is basically everything. It takes more time to tell you about everything that George Lucas fucked up than it does to actually watch the damn movies.

Anonymous WinstonWebb April 18, 2016 5:53 PM  

"Well... What was so horrible about the prequels???"


Attack of the Clones started with s stupid title and just got worse from there.
An assassination plot that makes no sense.
A bounty hunter from same senseless plot just happens to be the genetic material for the Clone/Stormtrooper army that the Republic doesn't know it has, but it needs, but the Jedi object, but they ordered it originally, or did they?
So, ObiWan has to be completely out of character playing Sherlock Holmes with the 4-armed, bad CGI diner owner.
You wanna buy some deathsticks?
There was supposed to be a big romantic story arch, but the dialogue, acting, and screen chemistry (lack thereof) is just painful to watch.
R2-D2 now has rocket boosters.
The great Christopher Lee is reduced to a throw-away villain.
Every line by C3PO is a god-awful pun.
Termites built the Death Star.
Yoda, the epitome of a wise, reserved, stoic Jedi Master, is battling with s lightsaber while doing his best impersonation of an angel-dust-addled Sonic the Hedgehog.

Other than that list, the movie was just kinda bad.

Anonymous Stickwick April 18, 2016 6:06 PM  

Lively, dude, you're skating right past the point. It's not laziness, it's necessity. The Half in the Bag review covers this. If the next sequel does the same thing, then it's laziness.

Blogger YIH April 18, 2016 6:27 PM  

Speaking of fanfic, Paramount is going after an indie Star Trek over:
Pointed ears (laughed out of court, for obvious reasons), Star Trek related settings, colors, shapes, words, phrases and the whole Klingon language.

Blogger Sam Lively April 18, 2016 6:56 PM  

@138

I'm not skating past it, I'm denying its validity. It's not necessary to "reboot" Han and Leia in their original places when they are 30 years older. It's just lazy.

And it doesn't make sense. Han back solo, smuggling and in debt to the mob after having become a rebel hero & general & husband is a huge personal failure, but the movie treats it like nostalgia, until belatedly stumbling back into tragedy at the end. Han has nothing of fatherhood to him until his last scene - it was a hasty mismash of old rogue Han and a new, half-conceived tragic failure Ha.n

Leia is still a general but how on earth is she still in charge if their destruction of the Empire has been completely undone and their back in hiding with another death star after?

Rebooting the original Empire-Rebellion-Vader elements in status quo ante form required abject failure on the part of the OT cast but they just sort of yawned and hand-waved through all that to get them back where they started.

Luke was the only one of the OT cast who got sequeled and not rebooted - the only guy who actually seemed like he had been impacted by the tragic implications of the intermission.

The same goes for the rebooted elements. The First Order is just Empire aesthetics reborn. But the moral clarity that made the original so compelling doesn't just inhere in aesthetics - the First Order fails both as rebooted Empire or evolved Empire. We're just supposed to sit back and accept that these guys are bad and totalitarian because they look really fascist. That and pretend that the Empire never really got destroyed or dismantled (what exactly did the OT accomplish?) and that it popped up again just as dominant as before.

The Half in the Bag guys compare it to Jurassic World as a soft reboot. That's nonsensical. The Star Wars OT is largely beloved and intact narratively, with persisent characters and extensive world building. The prequel damage was done to the past and did very little to damage the narrative framework left mostly intact as of ROTJ. Jurassic Park, in contrast, was a one-off survival horror movie with two terrible sequels and no movie-to-movie character building. InGen was the only element that really needed to be rebooted for each sequel.

Rebooting the Empire and Darth Vader presupposed enormous tragic failure on the part of the OT heroes. But Abrams was in too much of a rush to build that tragic backstory in any convincing way.

Anonymous Stickwick April 18, 2016 7:12 PM  

It's not necessary to "reboot" Han and Leia in their original places when they are 30 years older. It's just lazy.

That part I'll agree with. Han and Leia should've evolved a bit more since we last saw them. Maybe enjoying their twilight years at Endor Pines Retirement Home for Rebels.

The prequel damage was done to the past and did very little to damage the narrative framework left mostly intact as of ROTJ.

No, that's not the way it works. The prequel damage was done to the PRESENT and to the FANS. And it wasn't just the prequels, it was the endless and horrible "special edition" tweaks to the original trilogy.

Anonymous Mary Sue April 18, 2016 7:15 PM  

How could anyone not like TFA? After all, I'm the star!

Anonymous tublecane April 18, 2016 7:23 PM  

@131-I wonder if in a decade there'll be Jar-Jar revisionists. Future, if you're listening, he was that bad. Rarely can you pinpoint the turning point for the decline of any long-running institution, despite that "jump the shark" website. But Jar-Jar was it.

I distinctly remember not being able to understand a word it said when Obi Wan and Other Guy were walking with it through the jungle. A voice in my head said to me, " Oh my God, could this actually be bad?" And then it was.

Anonymous tublecane April 18, 2016 7:28 PM  

@132-Whether "soft reboots" are legitimate as such is one issue. The above poster was saying that you can't use the fact that it was a soft reboot as an excuse for logical inconsistency and bad storytelling, which is another. They could've remade Star Wars and had the story make sense. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

If the new Star Trek series is any indication, and it should be because they're the same movie series now, the sequel will be yet another remake with a convoluted plot and endless nostalgia-teasing and "fan service."

Blogger Michael Maier April 18, 2016 8:11 PM  

There are rumours that Jar-Jar was meant to be the actual big bad guy of the prequel trilogy, but Lucas pussied out and didn't make it happen. That might have actually been interesting.

I agree with Sam Lively here. NOTHING in the prequels damaged the originals or needed "fixing".

Epi 7 sucks. Totally, 100% sucks, start to finish.

Nothing interesting, nothing emotionally compelling.

Then make Luke and Han into pathetic characters? No, fuck Disney and Abrams.

Luke went to the Death Star 2 to redeem his father or die and I'm supposed to believe he'd pussy out, abandon the galaxy and cower on a mountain rather than stop his nephew?

For all its failures, at least 1-3 tried to show something interesting and new.

7 just pisses on any and everything male and preens at itself.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents April 18, 2016 8:14 PM  

Look at the larger picture in terms of storytelling. The current infotainment industry is re-re-recycling old stories why? Because they can't seem to come up with anything new? Because they are all about merchandising "Spaceballs, the lunchbox!" and not about telling a good story that just happens to make money?

Stripmining the same stories to dress them up in new pantsuits isn't art.

The irony is when people claim to be fans of SF but they don't know anything other than StarTrekWars. It's as if the last 80 years of fiction writing didn't happen. Doesn't have to be on the scale of the Ring, either. For example, Saberhagen's Berserker stories were adequate enough to make a Netflix series out of, with a couple of big screen movies on the side. Just one of many authors.

Perhaps as the price of CGI work continues to decline, some indy group will be able to put together a movie or three. It would be a bonus if the stories were red pill.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents April 18, 2016 8:17 PM  

How to piss off most of the "SF" fans that you might meet in any social situation.

1. Get the nerds and nerdettes competing on "which is the best?"
2. Once they get into "Star Trek!" no way, "Star Wars!" let them fizz for a while.
3. Calmly point out they are both half right, the best SF series is of course Star GATE.
4. Smirk as you leave.

Anonymous Stickwick April 18, 2016 8:29 PM  

tublecane: Whether "soft reboots" are legitimate as such is one issue. The above poster was saying that you can't use the fact that it was a soft reboot as an excuse for logical inconsistency and bad storytelling, which is another.

Blah, blah, blah. He's just got a pickle up his arse.

Blogger Zimri April 18, 2016 8:42 PM  

"It's not Finn's color they are failing to mention. It is his lack of alphaness."

This is as far as I got through the comments, and from that point on I can guess that Finn being "gamma" or otherwise non "alpha" was going to be a theme on this thread.

I *did* watch this (horrible) movie - last week, on RedBox - and I'll point this much out about Finn: it doesn't even matter if you believe in Game (which I do) or not. It doesn't even matter about Finn's race; Finn himself made that a nonissue.

Finn was USELESS. He was an ugly deserting weasel who spent most of his time onscreen needing to be bailed out - by the woman, no less. I'm male and *I* don't want his cowardly treacherous ass at my side in a fight. Mace Windu was black and it's highly unlikely he'd think any different.

Blogger Zimri April 18, 2016 8:52 PM  

"Question: Is there one single thing you can point to in Star Trek and say, "that ruined Star Trek." "

JJ Abrams nuking the whole universe in his first movie, so that none of the original-series / TNG / movies / DS9 / fanfics ever could have happened.

Abrams' synagogue needs to expel the man and deliver a ritual curse against Abrams, like Spinoza's did against Spinoza.

Anonymous Malwyn's apprentice April 18, 2016 9:20 PM  

41. CarpeOro April 18, 2016 11:58 AM
The fanfic author, a creator of a Reylo fan fic, is surprised she didn't create something that was "different", "special" and "surprising" compared to what most female fanfic authors were creating.

Seriously, where has she been? There's tons of "unique" fic on fanfiction.net (aka The Pit of Voles), and that site's been running for at least 15yrs.

Fanfic varies widely in quality. Some is crafted at an almost professional level, others are an insult to those poor pixels that were tortured in a sad mockery of writing. Some rather talented people have used the medium to polish their skills before going pro (I know of one woman who's filing off the serial numbers of her Magnum opus); others simply enjoy playing in other peoples' sandboxes.

As other people have pointed out, fanfic uses female-specific tropes (i.e., fixing the bad boy, love conquerors all, etc) that tend to be fairly common in romance novels. So with that in mind, the preponderance of women writing fanfic really isn't surprising.

Oh yes, the term "slash" originated with Star Trek fanfic.

Anonymous Joe Blowe April 18, 2016 9:30 PM  

Modern liberalism is not Jeffersonian liberalism. Modern liberalism is Judeo-Masonic Globalism which seeks to overthrow and supplant Christendom and Western Civilization. It first reared it ugly head during the bloodsoaked French Revolution. It metastasized throughout Europe during the "Spring of Nations" (where have I heard that before) revolutions of the late 1840's. It got a boost from Marx and Engels then came in like thunder in post Civil War America thanks to the Radical Republicans. After years of assassination, agitation, and revolt funded by Judeo-Masonic Globalist Banksters, their agents Trotsky and Lenin finally created the first JMG state and used it to great, murderous effect. That is until Stalin took it over for his own purposes. No honor among thieves. The full frontal assault was not producing results so The Frankfort School scientifically codified and organized it for the stealth approach through the institutions and controlled Corporate Media. Its been a stunning success. Judeo-Masonic Globalism has Western Christian Men under the boot, forbidden to call a spade a spade, and inundated by the 3rd World Hordes until he is political, economically, physically and genetically dispossessed and dissolved. That is until he finally awakens.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 18, 2016 9:37 PM  

Wrong post, Joe Blowe. We talkin but those crazy Star Wars (Bill Murray singing) those groovy Star Wars, did Darth Vader scare you as much as he scared me...eeee....yeah thank you very much!

Anonymous Malwyn's apprentice April 18, 2016 9:43 PM  

140. Sam Lively April 18, 2016 6:56 PM
@138

I'm not skating past it, I'm denying its validity. It's not necessary to "reboot" Han and Leia in their original places when they are 30 years older. It's just lazy.

Watched SW 4-6 in the theater; learned about the prequels from fanfic, and have absolutely no intention of wasting any brain cells on TFA in any medium. Nope; if I want a post-RotJ fix, then I'll dig out the novels.

Anonymous Sagramore April 18, 2016 10:14 PM  

professional fan fiction

I actually know a guy who does this, but
it's to troll Rowling's copyright lawyers
.

Blogger Jester April 18, 2016 10:33 PM  

How to piss off most of the "SF" fans that you might meet in any social situation.

1. Get the nerds and nerdettes competing on "which is the best?"
2. Once they get into "Star Trek!" no way, "Star Wars!" let them fizz for a while.
3. Calmly point out they are both half right, the best SF series is of course Star GATE.


I'm actually quite fond of all three of them. ;)

Anonymous Sagramore April 18, 2016 10:35 PM  

@90 Zoe Tur is "transgressive."

Blogger Were-Puppy April 18, 2016 10:38 PM  

@133 Eduardo
Well... What was so horrible about the prequels???
---

Are you Eduardo Binks???

Blogger Were-Puppy April 18, 2016 10:41 PM  

@137 WinstonWebb

Other than that list, the movie was just kinda bad.
--

All those were bad. But what got me was the midoclorians or w/e replacing the Force.

And Jar Jar Binks.

Jar Jar Binks.
JJ Binks.
JJ Abrams.

*cries*

Anonymous A. Nonymous April 18, 2016 10:45 PM  

Calmly point out they are both half right, the best SF series is of course Star GATE.

The best way to describe Stargate is more or less Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Scotty alternately cajoling, begging, bribing, lying, stealing, negotiating, retro-engineering and not-infrequently outright murdering their way into possession of Empire-level tech. XD

Blogger Were-Puppy April 18, 2016 10:47 PM  

@147 A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents 3. Calmly point out they are both half right, the best SF series is of course Star GATE.
---

^5

JAFFA KREE

Blogger Were-Puppy April 18, 2016 10:52 PM  

@154 Malwyn's apprentice

I want a post-RotJ fix, then I'll dig out the novels.
---

You've given me a flashback. Let's see, after Star Wars, I remember how popular these Star Wars Trivia books were. also, this http://www.amazon.com/Splinter-Minds-Eye-Star-Wars/dp/0345320239

Blogger Were-Puppy April 18, 2016 10:57 PM  

For Star Gate nostalgia - in case you didn't see this fun parody

https://youtu.be/CWyWNGLNEFg

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 18, 2016 10:58 PM  

Stargate all the way. MURICA vs snooty aliens. MURICA wins!

Blogger Rez Zircon April 18, 2016 11:09 PM  

I doubt it has anything to do with Finn being black, white, green, or plaid.

Rather -- he's bloody boring. He could be written out of the movie completely, and no one would notice.

Fanfic likes mystery. It doesn't like boring. Kylo Ren is full of mystery; Finn is full of empty (and comes off as not the sharpest tool in the drawer, which doesn't attract fanfic either).

Anonymous paleopaleo April 18, 2016 11:13 PM  

I think they should both confess to being a-sexual. They could then commit to an a-sexual partnership ceremony officiated by Luke and Yoda's ghost.

Blogger bob k. mando April 18, 2016 11:23 PM  

99. Krul April 18, 2016 2:33 PM
I hope so, but expect not so. Mike said he liked TFA, IIRC.

102. Stickwick April 18, 2016 2:43 PM
Not gonna happen. Mike already favorably reviewed TFA on Half in the Bag.


welp, you may be right but that's completely at odds with 'The Plinkett Awakes' promo they shot.


102. Stickwick April 18, 2016 2:43 PM
Structurally, there was nothing wrong with TFA.


*shakes head*

no, no, there was a TON wrong with TFA, several points of which they bullet ( but do not expound upon ) within 'the Plinkett Awakes' promo.

so, not only are there serious storytelling problems with the film, the RLM guys are aware of them.

keep in mind that the RLM guys are almost certainly dealing with fan goggles. and, like Kevin Smith vacillating about whether or not Bats vs Supe is an asinine and stupid movie ( "You need to go see this movie four times. Because they showed us Parademons. And I never thought I would see Parademons on screen!" ), they were probably having a hard time being honest about all the crap in the film.

but now they've had time to think and reflect. and see other critiques ( of which there are innumerable ). and ...

The Plinkett Awakes.



103. Michael Maier April 18, 2016 2:49 PM
I am still sort of shocked that I cannot see myself ever watching Epi 7 again. That sounds insane in my own head but there it is.



why would you?

all, ALL of the good plot points in Ep7 were stolen from Ep4-6. sure, Ep7 isn't a complete barf fest like Ep1-3 but that's a pretty damn low bar.

here's a Kylo Ren question:
IF
Kylo can so easily Force freeze and hold a blaster bolt ( which, even if not a laser is still traveling at a significant fraction of c, and certainly appears to have megajoules of destructive energy )
THEN
why doesn't he just Force freeze Rey ... or anybody else who gets in his way?

i mean, you could kludge an excuse that Rey is a more powerful Force user or something, even if she has no idea what or how he's doing it. but non-Force users should be utterly helpless before him.


104. Sam Lively April 18, 2016 2:56 PM


*bro-fist*




133. Eduardo April 18, 2016 5:32 PM
Well... What was so horrible about the prequels???



you really aren't tall enough for this ride.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI&list=PL5919C8DE6F720A2D

Blogger Were-Puppy April 18, 2016 11:23 PM  

Star Wars: The Pansexuals

Anonymous Ain April 18, 2016 11:27 PM  

And Luke's ghost, too. There's no way he's making it out of this alive.

Anonymous A. Nonymous April 18, 2016 11:35 PM  

I doubt it has anything to do with Finn being black, white, green, or plaid.

Search your feelings. You know it to be true...

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents April 18, 2016 11:37 PM  

The best way to describe Stargate is more or less Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Scotty alternately cajoling, begging, bribing, lying, stealing, negotiating, retro-engineering and not-infrequently outright murdering their way into possession of Empire-level tech. XD

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Anonymous Yogurt April 18, 2016 11:39 PM  

I doubt it has anything to do with Finn being black, white, green, or plaid.

Search your feelings. You know it to be true…

Fugetabout your feewings, use The Schwartz!

Anonymous A. Nonymous April 18, 2016 11:41 PM  

You say that like it's a bad thing.

*raises eyebrow quizzically*

That was not my intention, Colonel O'Neill...

Blogger Krul April 18, 2016 11:45 PM  

A comparison occurs.

Situation: We have all these characters and stories we want to bring to the big screen.

Problem: They inhabit a big, involved, overly complicated universe that is loved by fans but daunting to others.

Solution (Marvel): Carefully plan out your films decades in advance to build up a cinematic universe that reflects the source material in all major aspects while streamlining it into a series of entertaining (and profitable!) films.

Solution (JJ Abrams): Flush the entire canon down the toilet. Shove the most recognizable aspects of the property into a generic schlocky action plot. Apply lens flares liberally. (See both Star Trek AND Star Wars)

Blogger Akulkis April 18, 2016 11:54 PM  

@79 macweave
"But as I discovered in my California days a disproportionate number of young white girls lose there virginity to older black and hispanic men. Very prevalent among those with other issues."

Daddy isssues.

Anonymous Stickwick April 18, 2016 11:55 PM  

bob k. mando: no, no, there was a TON wrong with TFA, several points of which they bullet ( but do not expound upon ) within 'the Plinkett Awakes' promo.

Did you actually watch the promo? There was nothing bulleted in "The Plinkett Awakens." The first half was devoted to slamming George Lucas, and the second half was just Plinkett agitated that there was yet another SW movie.

I think y'all are nuts. The movie was perfectly adequate. Better than VI, not as good as IV or V, and it had no more problems than IV did. If you disagree, fine, but you've got a pickle up your arse, too.

Anonymous Mary Sue April 19, 2016 12:03 AM  

Oh, Stickwick, you love me! You really love me!

Anonymous Lesbian Mary Sue April 19, 2016 12:06 AM  

Will you love me, too, Stickwick? Will you really love me?

Blogger Akulkis April 19, 2016 12:12 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger John Wright April 19, 2016 12:15 AM  

Fanfic writers don't envision a guy whom a girl has beaten the crap out of as a proper mate for that girl.

Blackness has nothing to do with it. If the guy looked like Lando, the fanfic shippers would have imagined him doing Rey, and Ren, both robots, and the Wookie.

Blogger Akulkis April 19, 2016 12:18 AM  

@86

"The Enterprise technology seems far superior. In naval terms, it would be like pitting the latest guided missile destroyer against the HMS Hood. In most circumstances, I'd go with the lighter and more modern."

The problem wit the Hood was poor protection of its powder and ammo storage lockers -- it was designed and built in an era when it was assumed that all combat would be conducted at ranges with low-angle fire, so there was minimal top-armor on those spaces -- all of the protection was on the sides. Bismarck had a better fire control system, and was capable of delivering accurate fire at ranges unanticipated by Hood's designers, and so took a salvo of plunging fire, was instantly enveloped in a gigantic cloud of smoke, and when the smoke cleared, there were only 4 survivors.

A modern CG vs a WW2-built BB with a US Ford Mark 1 fire control computer would be lost with all but a handful of men surviving, before the BB sustained any damage requiring major repair facilities. The modern CG simply cannot survive the impact of even ONE 16-inch round, doesn't have the maneuverability to outfox the analog Fork Mark 1 Fire Control Computer (which kept ALL gun-barrels true on target, even allowing for parallax of the gun turrets being mounted at varying locations AND continuously correcting for all yaw, pitch, and roll of the firing ship induced by wave action, winds, and maneuvering.

The one advantage the CG does have is range -- but just doesn't have the ability to throw anything at ANY range which will cause serious harm to a North Carolina or Iowa class BB.

Anonymous Michael Kelso April 19, 2016 12:20 AM  

Oh, Stickwick, you love me! You really love me!

Somebody better call a paramedic, because that is one sick BURN!

Anonymous Rolf April 19, 2016 12:23 AM  

Still haven't seen it.

Anonymous Yoda April 19, 2016 12:27 AM  

Blackness has nothing to do with it.

So certain, are you...

Blogger Krul April 19, 2016 12:56 AM  

It's funny, I never planned to see TFA but I ended up seeing it twice. First my family invited me to go see it with them, then my friends did the same. What is a curmudgeon to do?

Anyhow, upon second viewing I realized something that I didn't notice the first time around. TFA has a really strong start. REALLY strong. But then it totally fails.

Here's what I mean. The first handful of scenes that introduce our main characters are GREAT. The attack on the village with the escaping droid is engaging and it does an excellent job setting up the main plot macguffin and the bad guys. Kylo Ren is legitimately intimidating when he strides off the ship and kills the old man, and it's cool when he stops the blaster bolt because that's a neat Star Wars-y thing that makes sense in this universe that we haven't seen before. The part when Finn's pal smears his face with blood is dramatic and it sets up a really interesting character conflict for Finn, and it humanizes the storm troopers.

Likewise when Rey is introduced, it seems at first that there's more to her than a generic Mary Sue action girl. She has a rough life living in a broken down AT-AT, which again is something cool and Star Wars-y idea that we haven't seen before. She has a doll, she plays around wearing an old helmet while she eats alone, and she obsessively makes these scratch marks on the wall. It promises a character with depth - sad, lonely, a little weird, but hopeful.

Then, it all gets ruined when Rey meets BB-8. The moment when Rey unaccountably feels the need to "rescue" a piece of equipment from what, for all she knows, is its legitimate owner, and then the piece of equipment falls in love with her. That is the turning point, the moment when all of the film's promise disappears. After that, Kylo Ren becomes a whiny pathetic weakling, and the *real* villain is revealed to be the ridiculous Supreme Leader Snork. Finn goes from being a conflicted hero to a gormless goofball. Rey becomes Mary Sue. And the plot turns into a nonsensical retread of Episodes IV and VI that is so silly even the characters in the film are rolling their eyes at it.

It could have been good.

It almost was good.

But. It. Wasn't.

Blogger Jmac April 19, 2016 1:20 AM  

@bob k. mando "here's a Kylo Ren question:
IF
Kylo can so easily Force freeze and hold a blaster bolt ( which, even if not a laser is still traveling at a significant fraction of c, and certainly appears to have megajoules of destructive energy )
THEN
why doesn't he just Force freeze Rey ... or anybody else who gets in his way?"

I'll give it a crack, although the professional writers commenting herein would probably have better answers (Mr. and Mrs. Wright).

Fiction writing 101: Every character has a "fatal flaw." For Ren it's his emotionally instability. There are a couple of scenes of him absolutely losing his temper and throwing a hissy fit.

After Rey escapes and Ren finds the room empty and starts to destroy everything two stromtroopers come around the corner, but then stop and slowly back away. This scene was brilliant because it encapsulated in twenty seconds what Lucas tried (and failed) to show in the three prequels (anger leads to the dark side). Obviously Ren has gone off half-cocked before, maybe many times, so the troopers know just to stay out of his way.

Contra that with Darth Vader in the original trilogy. We don't see (until the end of Return) any big emotional outbursts. If someone pissed him off, he just force chocked him, and that was it.

Ren is obviously powerful, and Abrams wanted to demonstrate that power early on, hence the force freeze, with a Kylo Ren in control: calm, cool and collected. But when Ren is thrown off his game: his daddy issues creep up, someone else is stronger in the force, he can't complete his mission, etc. he gets emotional, and thus weaker.

That's my theory anyway. I don't know if it's what the filmmakers were going for or not, but it's how I saw it.

Anonymous cheddarman of Christendom April 19, 2016 1:55 AM  

No, I am trying to make the point that the star trek universe has better weapons and defensive technology than the star wars universe. And the star ships weRe about the same size as a 1970s air craft carrier (i am guessing nimitz class) and had a crew of about 300. And James T. Kirk is a military genius and beds lots of hoes. What is not to like? And "kirk" is a Scottish word for church.

Anonymous cheddarman April 19, 2016 2:03 AM  

Eduardo do you also have a friend who is married to an orangutan? It would fit the pattern.

Anonymous cheddarman April 19, 2016 2:12 AM  

Oh ffs sake krul, kirk was a badass alpha white anglo saxon man saving the universe when women and minorities were running around screaming in panic and holding their genetalia



Blogger rho April 19, 2016 2:40 AM  

So, do I watch the Star Wars movie when it shows up in Redbox or no? This seems to be the place to determine yea or nay.

Blogger SciVo April 19, 2016 3:13 AM  

@ bob k. mando:

here's a Kylo Ren question:
IF
Kylo can so easily Force freeze and hold a blaster bolt ( which, even if not a laser is still traveling at a significant fraction of c, and certainly appears to have megajoules of destructive energy )
THEN
why doesn't he just Force freeze Rey ... or anybody else who gets in his way?


Mass. The lack of recoil implies negligible mass.

Anonymous Littlest Hellhound April 19, 2016 6:28 AM  

"It's not Finn's color they are failing to mention. It is his lack of alphaness."

This. Kylo is a mysterious bad boy with a hint of vulnerability. He's the force version of Edward Cullen. Finn is a quivering wuss who opens the film by deserting and then follows Rey around like a lovesick puppy.

Feminists hate that a significant fraction of women hate 'nice guys', fantasise about domination and - even - (shock horror) sadism and consensual 'abuse'. See all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over Fifty Shades of Grey.

If Kylo Ren had been played by the actor who played Finn, and vice-versa, all the fan-fic would *still* be about Ren.

Anonymous A. Nonymous April 19, 2016 8:10 AM  

I am trying to make the point that the star trek universe has better weapons and defensive technology than the star wars universe.

Your point is not defensible.

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 19, 2016 9:41 AM  

Professional fan fiction is exactly what "Awake in the Night Land" is. It's not an inherently bad thing.

Blogger Stephen April 20, 2016 2:54 AM  

"However, the article does indicate the primary problem with science fiction and fantasy today. Most of it simply isn't genuine science fiction and fantasy, it's merely professional fan fiction."

That is exactly what it felt like watching The Hobbit a small 1 film book padded out with trashy fan fiction. Shame LOTR was actually quite good. Everything has insert diversity characters in it. Saw Force Awakens out on Disk so I suppose I can download it and see how garbage that is now.

Blogger bob k. mando April 20, 2016 3:04 AM  

191. SciVo April 19, 2016 3:13 AM
Mass. The lack of recoil implies negligible mass.



so what? Luke picked up an entire X-wing. i'm guessing that Rebel fighters aren't made out of Insubstantium.

Yoda, Vader and several others where throwing around what looked to be tons of scrap iron.

Vader remote Force choked that guy in Ep4, so it cannot be that Force powers don't work on the living.


186. Jmac April 19, 2016 1:20 AM
That's my theory anyway.


a - that's standard Light Side Force theology as explicated by Yoda in Ep5
b - Dark Side users are supposed to become MORE powerful as they get angry. perhaps there may be a concurrent lack of focus or fine control as the rage grows, but i don't recall any canon expression of a Dark Sider getting 'weaker' as he loses emotional control. that's the whole point of both the Emperor and Vader tempting Luke, remember? that he would gain strength as he loosed his emotions?



176. Stickwick April 18, 2016 11:55 PM
If you disagree, fine, but you've got a pickle up your arse, too.



a - ain't no point in any of us getting to froggy about what we 'think' the Plinkett review is going to be. it'll be here pretty soon and then we'll all know

b - you notice how Plinkett rips The Force Awakens ( poster ) literally to shreds? if he doesn't subsequently rip The Force Awakens ( film ) figuratively to shreds, that's what you call blue balling your audience.

not that the RLM guys would ever consider trolling their audience ...


d - the very first statement is that JJBrams 'dared' to remake Star Wars ( ANH ) ... and pretend it was a sequel. iow, there's nothing new ( of consequence ) there. that's a major story telling problem.


e - between this and your entirely inappropriate level of knowledge of slash fic, i'm guessing i need to invest in a high quality chastity belt while you're around
*squints at Stickwick*

f - what if i don't want a pickle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn2hKqyGH6U



176. Stickwick April 18, 2016 11:55 PM
The movie was perfectly adequate.


i find it utterly bizarre that you think an 'adequate' movie should be grossing a billion dollars.

if you want to see a good movie, try "Only Angels Have Wings". there is more and better characterization in the first 15 minutes of that movie than in the entire EP1-3+7.

and the Kid's death scene is orders of magnitude more effective and affective than Han's.

SFX is a bit lacking ( what do you want from 1939 ), but the real life stunt flying was pretty impressive.

if Howard Hawks had had half of Lucas's tech, he'd have shown George and JJBrams both up for the loser hacks that they are.

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