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Saturday, April 16, 2016

In attempted defense of chickenhawks

Ben Shapiro's defenders are more than a little sensitive to his hypocrisy and shameless, well-documented cowardice:
Ben Shapiro ‏@benshapiro
Trump speaks at a fourth-grade level. His WSJ piece is written at a ninth-grade level.

Supreme Dark Lord @voxday
And you went to law school instead of serving your country while calling for other Americans to go to war.

THE Chris Coon ‏@Coondawg68
these PC SJW Trumpkins are now yelling "Chickenhawk!!" "Bu$Hitler lied!!" FFS...

Supreme Dark Lord ‏@voxday
Now? I observed that the coward @benshapiro was the Littlest Chickenhawk back in 2005
From my August 29, 2005 WND column, The Chickenhawk Clucks
 I – like 62 percent of the soldiers and veterans who frequent Vox Popoli and Blackfive – am in accord with the notion that “chickenhawk” is an appropriate label for a warmongering young columnist who urges others to make sacrifices he has no intention of making himself.

    Most of us realize that during wartime, sacrifices must be made … But taking such a stand requires common sense and the knowledge that we are in the midst of the great battle of our time.
    – Benjamin Shapiro, WorldNetDaily, July 28, 2005

I would be remiss if I did not note that many of these military men and women favored a different 11-letter word that also begins with “chicken.”

The genuine flaw in the use of the “chickenhawk” label is that in most cases it is being applied years, even decades, after the fact, and inherently attempts to equate two different historical situations. However, due to Mr. Shapiro’s precocious position in the national media, this common flaw does not apply. While his peers are dodging sniper bullets and IEDs in Afghanistan and Iraq, Mr. Shapiro is bravely urging them to invade five more countries in the establishment of global empire from the safety of his Harvard dorm room.

    Did Iraq pose an immediate threat to our nation? Perhaps not. But toppling Saddam Hussein and democratizing Iraq prevent his future ascendance and end his material support for future threats globally. The same principle holds true for Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt, Pakistan and others: Pre-emption is the chief weapon of a global empire. No one said empire was easy, but it is right and good, both for Americans and for the world.
    – Benjamin Shapiro, WorldNetDaily, Aug. 11, 2005

The America Bar Association already boasts more than 896,000 lawyers, America has no desperate need for another one. The U.S. Army, on the other hand, is currently 8,000 men short of its 2005 recruiting goals. I am only one of many non-pacifist, non-leftist Americans who believe that Mr. Shapiro would do well to heed his own words of Aug. 26, 2004. “Now’s the time: Either put up, or shut the hell up.”
And before you ask, on January 18th, 1991, my friend Big Chilly and I went to the Roseville, Minnesota recruiting office and attempted to enlist in the United States Marine Corps. Our enlistments were not accepted, in fact, the recruiter ripped up the papers after reading them over and asking us a few questions, but he also shook our hands and thanked us for being willing to serve our country.

So we never served, but we were ready and willing to do so without being asked. And that is something that Ben Shapiro, for all his hectoring bluster about the pressing need for Americans to die in war, was clearly not willing to do.

As further evidence The Complete List of SJW is effective, several of Shapiro's defenders are extremely intent on having him removed from it. But unless and until he recants his public statement about hunting down and disemploying racists, (and assuming no further evidence of his social justice sympathies is discovered) he quite clearly belongs on it.

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138 Comments:

Anonymous That Would Be Telling April 16, 2016 10:09 AM  

And before you ask, on January 18th, 1991, my friend Big Chilly and I went to the Roseville, Minnesota recruiting office and attempted to enlist in the United States Marine Corps. Our enlistments were not accepted, in fact, the recruiter ripped up the papers after reading them over and asking us a few questions....

What the hell???

On what basis? At least they (well, Navy and Army) gave me a medical exam before saying sorry, no way....

Anonymous VFM #6306 April 16, 2016 10:10 AM  

Please tell me the recruiter mistakenly cited the ban on gays in the rejection meeting and, in the process, hooked you up with Wax Trax!

Because that would be epic.

Anonymous Godfrey April 16, 2016 10:12 AM  

He may not be willing to enlist... but I bet Little Ben would take a uniform just the same. And bet he'd prefer that of a General.

Chicken-shit... he plays "Risk" while others do the dying. And he calls Trump a child? Just more proof that wisdom and education are two entirely different things.

Blogger VD April 16, 2016 10:16 AM  

On what basis?

He took one look at our educations and salaries, and wondered what the hell we were doing there. When we pointed out that war had just started and we were doing what my grandfather had done after Pearl Harbor, he laughed and told us it would be over before we got to Basic. Unless we really wanted to make a career of it, he couldn't in good conscience let us go through with it.

My aunt later told me that we'd met the one recruiter in the Corps who wouldn't have cheerfully signed the papers and taken the bonus. My uncle was pissed; he'd been wanting me to sign up for years.

Blogger Verne April 16, 2016 10:18 AM  

It always sounds funny when you say that you enlisted in the Marine Corps, but they did not take you. It happens a lot, the Marine Corps rarely has a problem getting enough men. It happened to me as well. In my case is was a commission that I had ready be accepted for. Things change, a war ended, they just did not need so many lieutenants. They said thank you but no thank you.

Fortunately I have never been fast to call for war. I was willing to go myself, but not doing it has always left me thinking "who am I to send others to war". Yes there is a time for war, but it needs to be rare. I have lose friends. War is real, not a game, it is death.

Anonymous VFM #6306 April 16, 2016 10:21 AM  

Shapiro's taken sniveling courses from Cruz. His defenders don't know what an SJW is.

The Establishment is F-Troop.

Blogger Verne April 16, 2016 10:26 AM  

VD wrote:My aunt later told me that we'd met the one recruiter in the Corps who wouldn't have cheerfully signed the papers and taken the bonus. My uncle was pissed; he'd been wanting me to sign up for years

A good friend of mine went on to become a Marine Corps recruiter. The recruiter who talked you out of it was a unicorn. They love their bonuses. That recruiter actually turned down money when he let you go.

Blogger VD April 16, 2016 10:29 AM  

That recruiter actually turned down money when he let you go.

A fair amount too, apparently. We were both in the highest category for compensation. He was a good man.

Anonymous BGKB April 16, 2016 10:32 AM  

No one paid up after I pointed out Benji must be STR8 in his tweet telling cosmopolitan a peach is not a vagina.

Blogger The Other Robot April 16, 2016 10:41 AM  

@9: What most people in America call a vagina seems to be the vulva, but I guess you wouldn't know about that.

Blogger Emmett Fitz-Hume April 16, 2016 10:45 AM  

I was diagnosed with asthma in the sixth grade and prescribed an inhaler (c. 1987). I never ended up needing the inhaler as my asthma was rather mild. I ended up being a runner (I used to run a mile in 4:25 minutes at age 18) in high school and college. My ASVAB scores were excellent as well.

I wanted to be a Marine in the worst way. I didn't make it past the question in the physical where I was asked if I had ever been diagnosed with asthma, and it if so, if I had ever been prescribed an inhaler.

Yes and yes. I found out that it was a Department of Defense directive across the branches: automatic DQ.

No more Marine Corps. I was crushed. I tried to join again after 9/11 (and I even was against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan) thinking that perhaps rules had changed. It wasn't to be. But all I ever wanted to be was a United States Marine. I always took the saying, "No better friend, no worse an enemy" to heart.

Even against the wars, I wanted to be with the Marines. I can't explain why, except that I felt less of an American for not joining them.

Blogger Verne April 16, 2016 10:46 AM  

On Ben Shapiro. I admire his talents, but like a lot of hard driven, very young men with exceptional intelligence. They have a hard time not thinking too highly of themselves and what they know and do not know. His personal knowledge of war is squat, compared to the lowest intellect that can be found half drunk at the local VFW hall. But he is not wise enough to know that just maybe, he needs to talk to a few broken men of war, about war and what war is all about.

Anonymous Quartermaster April 16, 2016 10:47 AM  

Jonah Goldberg is another in the same class as Shapiro.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 16, 2016 10:53 AM  

It's better off maybe that you found the unicorn, Vox. I was at 1st LAR in 1997 when Riddick Bowe joined the Marines, at some point (probably after pugil sticks and close combat) he decided with his drill instructors that he wasn't cut out for it and went home. He was ridiculed for months by us as "Quittick" Bowe.

Anonymous Tannhauser April 16, 2016 10:57 AM  

Our enlistments were not accepted, in fact, the recruiter ripped up the papers after reading them over and asking us a few questions,

Because he determined you were drunk

Anonymous Mike April 16, 2016 10:59 AM  

These Israel-First chickenhawks imagine they're noble and brave, just as the SJWs do. And like their SJW doppelgangers, chickenhawks have nothing but contempt for those who dare question them.

Blogger Russ April 16, 2016 11:00 AM  

When I decided to join the service, I ran from downtown Annapolis to the Army recruiter out on West St. I told him I was going to drop out of college because I wanted be a Ranger, sleep in the woods, and eat bugs. He told me about all the college credit I could earn during my enlistment and tried to sell me on the new computer programming MOS (that was probably just some admin BS). I thanked him for his time and went down the hall to the Marines.

The Marine recruiter took one look at me and said, "You can't make it as a Marine." I was hooked. When I told her that I wanted guaranteed infantry, she told me some nonsense about "In today's Marine Corps, we call infantrymen combat engineers, just like we now call janitors sanitation engineers." When I told her that I knew the difference between the two, she tried to get me to enlist for guaranteed combat arms. It came with a $5000 bonus and the chance of being put in infantry, artillery, or (you guessed it) the combat engineers. I turned down the bonus and went UH.

I don't regret serving, but the truth is that I might have been happier in the combat engineers.

Anonymous kfg April 16, 2016 11:04 AM  

My application was accepted, but I was rejected on sight by . . . the electricians union.

Blogger VD April 16, 2016 11:10 AM  

I was at 1st LAR in 1997 when Riddick Bowe joined the Marines, at some point (probably after pugil sticks and close combat) he decided with his drill instructors that he wasn't cut out for it and went home.

Considering that we both did martial arts for the next five years, I think we'd have been okay in that regard. I put down your commandant in under 10 seconds when he started talking some smack about Marines being trained to kill unarmed.

But I hear you have to get up early. That would, admittedly, have been tough.

Anonymous abu-kaliforni April 16, 2016 11:13 AM  

I hear a lot of "I almost enlisted, but" stories. Most of them smell of bullshit. Most of them come from the type to rattle their civilian sabers from the safety of their own homes. But, as was the reasoning before women's suffrage, the only fair method of declaring war is having those who are willing to respond to the call be the ones to declare it. I personally do not care whether or not Vox or anybody else served, provided that they don't demand endlessly from what others have offered in service, be it ceaseless war or maintenance of empire.

Blogger Jourdan April 16, 2016 11:13 AM  

Recruiting story reminds me suspiciously of the recruitment of Winger and Ziskey.

Recruiter: Now, are either of you homosexuals?

John Winger: [John and Russell look at each other] You mean, like, flaming, or...

Recruiter: Well, it's a standard question we have to ask.

Russell Ziskey: No, we're not homosexual, but we are *willing to learn*.

John Winger: Yeah, would they send us someplace special?

Recruiter: I guess that's "no" on both. Now if you could just give Uncle Sam your autograph...

Blogger The Other Robot April 16, 2016 11:13 AM  

On Ben Shapiro. I admire his talents, but like a lot of hard driven, very young men with exceptional intelligence. They have a hard time not thinking too highly of themselves and what they know and do not know.

Seemingly, he was not smart enough to know that the forces would not accept someone of his book smarts. (The forces know what sort of people do best in them.)

If he had been smarter he could have forestalled all the chickenhawk remarks by showing, with photos, that he applied and they rejected him.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 16, 2016 11:14 AM  

Yes, you do have to get up early. Riddick didn't have a problem with the physical part either. He probably knocked some kid out in the boxing ring.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 16, 2016 11:15 AM  

Shapiro could have completed college and gone to OCS. Then he could have been a JAG, where he could still have safely ridiculed men who were actually doing the fighting.

Blogger VD April 16, 2016 11:16 AM  

I hear a lot of "I almost enlisted, but" stories. Most of them smell of bullshit.

Most of them don't come from military families like mine. You could probably even track down the recruiter, considering that I've given the service, the date, and the location.

Anonymous Cavalier April 16, 2016 11:18 AM  

I joined the Army at 18 (in 87.) I had flat feet, and had done drugs for years, was asthmatic, had been on beta blockers. I also aced the ASVAB & DLAB.

I had made up my mind to join, and figured my health was my business. So when they asked, I told them I had no health issues and didn't do drugs.

During the physical, I noticed ALL the docs were indifferent third-worlders. So on the arch-test, I just LIFTED MY INSTEPS. No joke-it worked. By then I'd sworn off drugs, so my piss test was clean.(I had stopped the beta-blockers unilaterally.)

I was a sickly 145lbs. 6' tall momma's boy who'd never fired a weapon before. Basic was fun.

I sledge-hammered the Berlin wall in Nov. 89, and crossed the Iraqi border in Feb. 91 with the first wave of Cav.

I have no regrets.

Blogger Jourdan April 16, 2016 11:18 AM  

VD - Your recruiter did you a good turn, as you obviously recognize. I joined the Navy at 17 and, truth be told, I was such a screw-up in school at that time it was a good call. But for most it's not, especially in today's America 2.0 armed forces. The exceptions are, of course, the real warriors, the ones who want to fight. You see them pretty fast when you hang out a bit with recruiters.

They're usually very determined young men who don't give a damn about the "saving for college" pitch. They usually know exactly what they want. They come in, say something like "infantry, marine rifleman, armored cav, etc." and they ship out in under two weeks.

Blogger The Other Robot April 16, 2016 11:22 AM  

And now we see that the US Army is becoming less and less effective.

All you can be?

Blogger Lovekraft April 16, 2016 11:22 AM  

To put Shapiro on the list because of 'racism' probably has the potential for a major impact on the sjw forces.

They would have to scramble to find another description of what is essentially natural group allegiance (but bad because reasons).

To demolish the R word is a major objective of the alt-right. imo...

Blogger pyrrhus April 16, 2016 11:26 AM  

@15 Israel-first chickenhawks is exactly right about all of them, from Kristol and Krauthammer all the way down...

Blogger dienw April 16, 2016 11:38 AM  

Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt, Pakistan and others

Reads more as though Shapiro is advocating for the Judeo-Khazar empire.

Anonymous DiscipleofSheiko April 16, 2016 11:41 AM  

Odd he didn't discuss OCS. Many a very well-educated officer.

Blogger Fifty Seven April 16, 2016 11:41 AM  

Marine Corps martial arts, at the basic level, teaches you exactly enough to go out and get your ass handed to you. We were told as much in boot camp. Some guys don't listen, and there are people all over the place who'd love to prove their tough guy bona fides by rolling a Marine.

Shapiro would never join. Whatever he says, he still needs to fit into Upper Crust Polite society, which has very little use for people who shoot guns and wear body armor and know the lyrics to "The SNM Man".

Oh, and not to open any cans of worms, but in seven years and time spent in the US, Japan, Korea, England, Germany, and the Middle East... I think I met one Jewish enlisted man.

Anonymous Discipleof Sheiko April 16, 2016 11:42 AM  

And ROTC (or in your case NROTC) can be a fantastic way to pay for college.

Blogger VD April 16, 2016 11:43 AM  

Odd he didn't discuss OCS. Many a very well-educated officer.

We knew all about it. My uncle had pitched us on it two years before when he was Director of Military Affairs. We weren't interested in careers.

Anonymous Lew April 16, 2016 11:45 AM  

So funny you mention your experience. In 1980 I went to a Marine recruiting station, and offered myself up. I took some kind of test, like if you folded this into a box, what would the end result look like. Don't think I could have done that badly (I am a professional type board certified person today). I walked there, they gave me a ride back to my dorm and said they just don't need me now. I have asked all my military friends over the years, how/why did this happen? Well, I tried anyway, and like you, I don't yell for others to go get blown up for nothing.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 16, 2016 11:46 AM  

Fifty Seven,

LINE training (sweep and kill) was pretty worthless. MCMAP is a little better, since it was designed by Marines who were also MMA/BJJ fighters. Lots and lots of practice would make it more effective, though.

Anonymous A Visitor April 16, 2016 11:48 AM  

@2 LOL,

@4 That's a unicorn of a recruiter as @7 said. In my brief background investigation stint out mainly working the NTC and MCLB Barstow, I had to work with recruiters obviously. They like their bonuses alright.

@13 Did you ever interact with the 3rd LAR in Iraq between '04-'10? A buddy of mine was in the 3rd and in Iraq at the time. Small chance but figured worth a shot...

@16 I didn't finish reading the rest of your story when I saw with the recruiter said about combat engineers. I finished reading the rest your story after that. I had to laugh because although I miss million I know the difference between infantry in combat engineer. My best friend was infantry in Afghanistan and I did the background investigations on a fair amount of a certain operations group that was composed solely of combat engineers.

@25 That sounds awesome on both counts! My uncle shit on the Berlin wall shortly before it came down. Makes the joke that when he was watching it come down on TV there was an East German guard scraping something off his boot.

All right, my two cents: Vox you did a good job back in 2005 of calling him out and I love how he was dumbfounded by it. The Internet and Internet caches are bitch!

I'm actually a few years younger than Shapiro; I was contacted by a Marine recruiter shortly before college and told after a brief chat that I was 4F due to a lack of depth perception. While my best friend was in Afghanistan I threw around the idea of why just getting in. I realized I would start off at a minimum as a specialist or the Marine Corps equivalent if I went Marine. I never would've been able to forgive myself if someone was killed because I couldn't tell how far away the enemy was.

@27 Great! /sarc I remember that I did a lieutenants reinvestigation for SCI. He was
infantry (former mil Intel, went green to gold). Those women are going to get their asses handed to them. That reminds me of this really cute Sergeant in the 11th ACR. She liked my mustache heh.

One of my exes, her dad was career Navy and fought in 'nam and first Gulf War. He did the recruiting at high schools in the 80s and would regularly turn down applicants because he thought they couldn't hack it.

Blogger Jack Hanson April 16, 2016 11:52 AM  

Pat Tillman was in our sister battalion at Ft. Benning (I was in 1/50 and he was in 2/19) and he showed up in Afghanistan at FOB Salerno as well. Guy was an absolute physical monster but if Krakower's book is accurate (and I talked to one of his platoon mates who confirmed some of the attitude stuff) it seems like he had problems fitting in.

Anonymous A Visitor April 16, 2016 11:52 AM  

That should read I'm a civilian not million, and not in when I talk about infantry and combat engineer, and lie to get in not why. Siri does not handle dictation well.

Blogger Jack Hanson April 16, 2016 11:53 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Jack Hanson April 16, 2016 11:54 AM  

Addendum: So I can see how Riddick, despite being physically fit, might have problems.

Blogger Sheila4g April 16, 2016 11:57 AM  

We let our older son join the National Guard at 17. Neither his IQ nor acing the ASVAB proved any hindrance. Yeah, they wanted to put him into intelligence or some similar desk job MOS, but since he needed our permission to join at that age, we simply refused until they found a slot for him in Cavalry, which is what he wanted.

He does know one guy from his high school who also enlisted in the guard who is Jewish, but I don't believe he's met anyone else during basic, AIT, Pathfinder School, or deployment.

Anonymous Johnny Rebb April 16, 2016 11:57 AM  

Good to see I'm in good company. Tried but the recruiter said I was too old to make me into what they wanted and the money sucked. Good man I think but then that was why I was at the Marine recruiter. You guys do remember that ad right?!? A few good good men with the metal... Aftern that I should have gone chairforce I guess. Think I woulda gone Dust off now but then it was Marine infantry all the way! In retrospect now, not a good choice. Perhaps God's grace. I agree with Vox's assements.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 16, 2016 11:57 AM  

A Visitor,

My last unit was 7th Crime, and I got out in 2005. I was in 1st LAR from 96 to 98, so I probably don't know him.

Anonymous A Visitor April 16, 2016 11:58 AM  

@38 My best friend wasn't too far from Salerno. He was in Terezayi.

Final point: as somebody said you can tell the ones that want to be frontline combat. My best friend aced the ASVAB and the recruiter said you have your choice. The recruiter desperately tried to get him to reconsider when he said he wanted infantry. We were drinking beer one night after he got back and I asked him why infantry. He said he wanted the real experience. He certainly got it.

Blogger dc.sunsets April 16, 2016 12:04 PM  

From an offhand comment on Col. Kratman's bio I got the impression that recruiting is not any honorable man's favorite assignment despite being a required stop in the career military.

What was it that happened to Pat Tillman, another well-educated, highly paid enlistee?

Blogger dc.sunsets April 16, 2016 12:11 PM  

Why did you want to be a Marine? The answer is obvious. Excellent marketing.

My dad was 8 years active USMC,1940-48 and in some ways never left. Not all sequelae of the Corps are positive.

The Pentagon is one of, if not the largest buyers of Madison Avenue's marketing manipulation.

People like Shapiro are integral to that system.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 16, 2016 12:13 PM  

@VD

I suspect, I know what was going on.

In 1991 you were either a senior or about graduate from college, correct?

The Minnesota OSO was probably consistently missing his mission. Which wouldn't be hard to do in RS Minneapolis. So, the RS was hurting for Officer contracts. Badly.

Since there was a recession and a war on they weren't hurting for enlisted men with useless Bachelors.

The Enlisted Recruiters standing orders would have been to send anyone qualified to the OSO. And they would have been PISSED about it. Hence the soft-sell to go officer and then sending you on your merry way.

Two years earlier or later and he would have sent you down range without a second thought. Degree or no.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 16, 2016 12:15 PM  

I love how we call it mission, and not quota or sales targets.

Blogger Jourdan April 16, 2016 12:18 PM  

The Marines are great, and all that, but I can't help noticing that nearly all the poor saps charged with murder or other war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan are only the enlisted men. While 98%+ have been found innocent, it certainly doesn't speak well of these men's officer corps that no one was willing to accept responsibility for, you know, being in fucking COMMAND.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 16, 2016 12:19 PM  

Jourdan,

Did you know that we hold most officers in less than stellar regard?

Blogger dc.sunsets April 16, 2016 12:19 PM  

That was then.

Anyone who is literate enough to read Kratman's Social Justice Armed Forces series at everyjoe.com should also be bright enough to choose a different path.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 16, 2016 12:21 PM  

@45 dc.sunsets

From an offhand comment on Col. Kratman's bio I got the impression that recruiting is not any honorable man's favorite assignment despite being a required stop in the career military.

No, its because it's hardass sales job and not everyone is cut out for sales.

This is from my latest unpublished masterpiece: Dark Winter

That was actually unnerving for Naisbett. Cooperation from any parent, let alone a mother, was a rare and frightening thing for a Marine Corps recruiter. Mom was usually the biggest roadblock on the road to enlistment. In an average month a Recruiter drove three thousand miles, made twelve hundred phone calls and shook the hands of two hundred strangers on the street. All to make a whopping twelve appointments. One third of those would No-Show. One third would fail the pre-screening for health reason, criminal activity or natural stupidity. One third would say, “Hell yes big Sarge! Send me off to war!” Then the real selling began. The days of American mother’s crying ‘with your shield or on it’ was now as distant a part of America’s past as Valley Forge. First it was, “my son is going to college.” followed by, “I didn’t know he was thinking about this! He needs some alone time with just me before he decides! A lot of alone time. A year or two for preference.” Lastly she would start calling the Air Force, the Coast Guard or the Americorps in a desperate hope of averting the life destroying, catastrophic disaster of her son becoming a Marine.

Blogger dc.sunsets April 16, 2016 12:23 PM  

I'll never grasp why armchair warriors and laptop bombardiers are not automatically ridiculed into lifetime professional obscurity.

Play war is for perpetual children.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 16, 2016 12:23 PM  

@48 Animal Mother

Because quote is what the Army, Navy and Air Force calls it.

Same reason we called flash lights, moonbeams and sneakers, Go-Fasters.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 16, 2016 12:24 PM  

I had the monitor on speed dial for the drill field just in case HRST came a calling.

Blogger Fifty Seven April 16, 2016 12:25 PM  

49-- "Shit rolls downhill".

Blogger newanubis April 16, 2016 12:27 PM  

As pertains to Ben, he should heed this ubiquitous quote:

A Man with an experience is never at the mercy one with an argument

Blogger dc.sunsets April 16, 2016 12:28 PM  

I'm unmoved by the "difficulty" of recruiting (esp. after a career in sales.)

If recruiters exclusively targeted males past the testosterone surge of puberty, who would have a better clue about the actual tradeoffs and be bterr able to separate features & benefits from "sales puffery," then fine.

The reason .mil targets teenagers is not just about physical fitness.

Blogger Jack Hanson April 16, 2016 12:35 PM  

Visitor,

Patkia Province was no joke in 03-04 and its only gotten worse.

I had the same reasoning, even when the counselor was trying to sell me on a nuclear energy MOS.

Blogger dc.sunsets April 16, 2016 12:36 PM  

@ cataline
Hard ass sales is, in my experience, focusing exclusively on the quarterly bonus and moving every unit possible by any means necessary, even convincing Eskimos to give you their money set aside for heat so they can buy the new refrigerator in your quota.

The best salesperson is just bright enough to repeat the spiel correctly, not bright enough to question the ethics of what he's doing and has just enough sociopathy to buffer between those two.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling April 16, 2016 12:38 PM  

@46 dc.sunsets:

Why did you want to be a Marine? The answer is obvious. Excellent marketing.

My dad was 8 years active USMC,1940-48 and in some ways never left. Not all sequelae of the Corps are positive.

The Pentagon is one of, if not the largest buyers of Madison Avenue's marketing manipulation.


At least in times past, this would be before the GWoT I think, the Marines were famous for having a very small marketing budget, and using it extremely well.

Anonymous A Visitor April 16, 2016 12:40 PM  

@59 He was in Terezayi in '09-'10 training ANP. He said it was like handing convicts guns.

Blogger bill April 16, 2016 12:44 PM  

I've never liked the term 'chickenhawk'-

Only black people can grasp racism and only women know misogyny when they see it. Best we leave policy and remediation of same to blacks and women; but only separately- Unless you're a black female in which case you DO get to decide on both racism and female-gender issues.

Being a white male I'm freed of agency in either case. Well, maybe not freed- But appropriately denied.

Being ex-Navy I DO get to provide input on matters of war which you, Vox, apparently do not. I also get to call bullshit on your story a recruiter tore up papers because you were too smart and too rich.

Stick to indian affairs. I can't touch you there.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 16, 2016 12:46 PM  

@55 Animal Mother

Understandable.

At least on the Drill Field your fate is in your own hands. All you have to do is (A.) Your job. And (B.) not punch a kid

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 16, 2016 12:48 PM  

Bill,

And we can outvote you on mtaters of war. Are you from Wisconsin?

Blogger kurt9 April 16, 2016 12:48 PM  

Ben Shapiro was talking about empire building while a 21 year old undergraduate student in 2005? Why on Earth would anyone publish him? Why would anyone read or listen to him. What would a punk student know about warfare and empire-building? It sounds like Ben Shapiro is the neo-con equivalent to these student SJW's we read so much about right now. He's a bone-head.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 16, 2016 12:54 PM  

@dc.sunsets

You recruit 18 years olds for several reasons. Gullibility is nowhere on the menu. It just isn't.

The biggest reason is that you need high school is that they are confident. They haven't failed at anything really big yet.

Recruiters do not like HS graduates because they have invariably failed at something. Usually college.

Having quit at something big, it's easy for them to quit something else that's a lot bigger.

Anonymous #8601 Jean Valjean April 16, 2016 12:57 PM  

The Michelle Fields incident alone is enough to put Mr. Shapiro on the SJW list.

Blogger Franz April 16, 2016 1:04 PM  

Being a white male I'm freed of agency in either case.

Being a moron, you're freed of agency to debate any topic in any rational manner.

The argument Vox was making just went "whoosh" way over your head.

But you probably win the exchange, you know, because of feeelingz. So you "never liked the term chickenhawk". Everybody, discussion thread finished! The village idiot doesn't like what we're doing! End of!

Anonymous kfg April 16, 2016 1:05 PM  

"Only black people can grasp racism . . ."

There are some Han from Nanking who would like a word with you.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 16, 2016 1:09 PM  

The only thing that makes me happier than chicken hawks getting their comeuppance is a socialist on a free Pinochet helicopter ride.

Blogger VD April 16, 2016 1:16 PM  

In 1991 you were either a senior or about graduate from college, correct?

I graduated in 1990. My friend had just graduated.

Being ex-Navy I DO get to provide input on matters of war which you, Vox, apparently do not. I also get to call bullshit on your story a recruiter tore up papers because you were too smart and too rich.

Go ahead. If you want to make a fool of yourself, I won't stop you. As I mentioned, I took down the USMC Commandant in a matter of seconds without even breathing hard, so I don't have any military fetish or undue regard for military men.

I've also outshot a Force Recon sniper with double-digit confirmed kills. Albeit with a pistol. I couldn't even come close to him with a rifle.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 16, 2016 1:18 PM  

You may have taken down Chuck, but he took your hair.

Blogger Giuseppe The Kurgan April 16, 2016 1:22 PM  

Being ex-Navy I DO get to provide input on matters of war which you, Vox, apparently do not. I also get to call bullshit on your story a recruiter tore up papers because you were too smart and too rich.

tsk, tsk, tsk, Bill, go back to the class where you PRETEND to teach history. Your Marxist nonsense will be torn apart here.

Anonymous BGKB April 16, 2016 1:26 PM  

I knew the marines are shock troops and the army had the best college deal with the army college fund.

Ben Shapiro was talking about empire building while a 21 year old undergraduate student in 2005? Why on Earth would anyone publish him?

Jewish Privilege?

Blogger Doc Rampage April 16, 2016 1:28 PM  

Mike wrote:These Israel-First chickenhawks imagine they're noble and brave, just as the SJWs do. And like their SJW doppelgangers, chickenhawks have nothing but contempt for those who dare question them.
I really envy this talent of long-distance telepathy that you and so many on the internet possess. I so wish I could read minds from what people write. You seem to have an extraordinary level of the talent, able to read not only Shapiro's deepest innermost thoughts, but also that of everyone who writes similar things. Imagine the money you could make from this talent if you put it to effective use instead of just bullshitting in comment forums.

Blogger Rantor April 16, 2016 1:32 PM  

@Cavalier, I was a young AF Officer in Berlin in Nov 89, partying on the wall at the Brandenburg Gate (The wall was 10 feet thick at the gate), Best of times, "Right Here Right Now" by Jesus Jones going through my head. Berlin was fabulous. Got a wife there, a daughter, still happily married after 26 years. Certainly no big desire to go to war but being AF, and not a pilot, everything was well out of harms way---except in Berlin before the wall came down. If the Warsaw Pact had acted, they had a division of artillery in Potsdam just to shut us up.

The number one reason i turned from Cruz last fall to Trump was Cruz' stupidity in answering a question on how to deal with Putin. The guy would guarantee a war with Russia that would be calamitous. The Donald's desire to strengthen the military and negotiate from a position of strength is right on. His desire to not go to war with Russia is right on. His desire that NATO members pay for their defense, yes, is right on. Since the wall came down it has gotten so bad that Armenia's Army is bigger than Germany's. Figure that out. There are more recently arrived Islamic Immigrants in the military age male category than in the entire German Armed Forces.

I have no animus against those who didn't serve. It is not for everyone. But I agree with Vox, Chickenhawks (syn. Neocons) should shut up. They are driving us towards wars that are not in the US interests. We have gained nothing from our experience in Afghanistan and Iraq. We will gain nothing from Hillary's personal failure in Libya. We need to hear the words of Roger Waters sang at the Wall so clearly and "Bring the Boys Back Home"

Only go to war if you are ready to destroy your enemy and win. Do not go to war if you want to teach illiterates to read and accept foreign values.

Blogger rcocean April 16, 2016 1:32 PM  

BTW, you can't call David Brooks a chickenhawk, he has a son serving in the IDF.

Blogger rcocean April 16, 2016 1:33 PM  

Its absurd how picky the Military is over medical issues. I got bounced out because my eyesight turned bad. Wearing glasses was Ok, as long as they are thin ones. Dumb. Its not like I was in the infantry.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 16, 2016 1:40 PM  

Rcocean,

Does David Brooks have a son serving in the US military?

Blogger Were-Puppy April 16, 2016 1:45 PM  

@68 #8601 Jean Valjean

The Michelle Fields incident alone is enough to put Mr. Shapiro on the SJW list.
---

IMO Fields definitely fits it. Shapiro would get included in as a white knight.

I still think of Shapiro as a Cuck. I also think of someone like Eric Erickson as a Cuck, but he definitely no-platforms people.

Blogger Doc Rampage April 16, 2016 1:54 PM  

I really think someone needs to make steaks in restaurants (I prefer rib eye, medium rare, extra thick and extra seared), but I'm not volunteering to work in a restaurant. I think someone really needs to design the next generation of smart phone, and I have some pretty strong opinions about what that phone should be like, but I'm not volunteering to design them. I think someone really ought to go after the gangs that terrorize people who live on the border, but I'm not joining the border patrol. I also think the US should use its military to go after people who are at war with us, even if they happen to be in countries that are nominally not at war with us, but I don't intend to join the military.

None of these positions makes me a hypocrite. I'm not advocating for the draft. We have an all volunteer force. The job of the US military is to do the dangerous work of protecting the interests of the US and her citizens around the world as directed by the president who is influenced by the will of the people in deciding what those interests are. If they didn't want to do that, they shouldn't have signed up.

The people who fight for this country deserve honor and respect and gratitude. They do not deserve deference.

Blogger Sevron April 16, 2016 2:05 PM  

Uh, that's nice, Doc, but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 16, 2016 2:10 PM  

The job of the US military is to do the dangerous work of protecting the interests of the US and her citizens around the world as directed by the president who is influenced by the will of the people in deciding what those interests are. If they didn't want to do that, they shouldn't have signed up.

You just affirmed every military decision ever made, for better or for worse, ISIS, starting a war with Russia, the color revolutions, nation building, etc.

Blogger Doc Rampage April 16, 2016 2:18 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:You just affirmed every military decision ever made, for better or for worse, ISIS, starting a war with Russia, the color revolutions, nation building, etc.

You are having a serious failure of reading comprehension here. To describe the rules surrounding a process is not to endorse every outcome of those rules.

Blogger Monadh April 16, 2016 2:19 PM  

I'm not ashamed to say that I was less than truthful about my allergies and previous injuries when I enlisted at age 31. I was going to be an infantry officer no matter what. I went to OSUT at Ft. Benning and then went to OCS there 7 months later. I had a blast, and if I had not been married I would have gone with the 160th SOG Aviation.

When I got out, I was hit hard with the wish that I had done this at 18. I missed so much I could have done.

Anonymous anon. April 16, 2016 2:21 PM  

"You could probably even track down the recruiter, considering that I've given the service, the date, and the location."

Would he remember two drunk idiots from 1991 though?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 16, 2016 2:22 PM  

You are having a serious failure of reading comprehension here. To describe the rules surrounding a process is not to endorse every outcome of those rules.

You have a serious failure in not knowing the purpose of the US military. Its purpose is to defend the Bill of Rights and these United States. Any other use is illegitimate. Not that it matters in post-Constitutional America.

Blogger Doc Rampage April 16, 2016 2:28 PM  

Sevron wrote:Uh, that's nice, Doc, but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
Regardless of the fascist underpinnings of the Chinese political structure, prices are still subject to the laws of economics and the price of tea in China is no exception to this rule. As the demand for tea increases in the US, and as there is relatively free trade in tea ever since we threw out that rascal George III and his tea taxes, the global price for tea will rise. This will, in turn, cause more resources to be allocated to the production of tea internationally, which will increase supply, which will then cause prices to fall. So demand for tea in the US effects the prices of tea in China. Also, people who eat steak drink coffee. We don't do that weak, girly leaf-litter stuff. So as the number of talented steak cooks increases it draws more people to see the joy of a good steak and will consequently will bring more people into the coffee-drinking community and increase the level of proper disdain for tea, thereby reducing demand for tea in the US, and thereby effecting the price of tea in China.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 16, 2016 2:31 PM  

@88. Animal Mother

You have a serious failure in not knowing the purpose of the US military. Its purpose is to defend the Bill of Rights and these United States. Any other use is illegitimate.

Well there was also paying me to drink beer, blow stuff up and pickup coeds at Virginia Beach.

These were important national security considerations.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 16, 2016 2:35 PM  

I lump all of those activities under the rubric of the Bill of Rights and the defense of the nation.

It makes us more effective as a fighting force, obviously.

Blogger Franz April 16, 2016 2:39 PM  

Being a white male I'm freed of agency in either case.

Being a moron, you're freed of agency to debate any topic in any rational manner.

The argument Vox was making just went "whoosh" way over your head.

But you probably win the exchange, you know, because of feeelingz. So you "never liked the term chickenhawk". Everybody, discussion thread finished! The village idiot doesn't like what we're doing! End of!

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 16, 2016 2:44 PM  

@91

The girls on Court Street were performing a vital national service!

The ones at Tobe's...eh not so much.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 16, 2016 2:52 PM  

Court Street? Uhh not sure if you could call that a service.

Anonymous #8601 Jean Valjean April 16, 2016 3:50 PM  

@81 Were-Puppy

IMO Fields definitely fits it. Shapiro would get included in as a white knight.


Fair enough, and good point about the white-knighting.

I've watched some of Shapiro's videos on how to debate liberals, which were great. If he publicly recanted his SJW statements as per VD above, that would be fine by me, too.

Blogger Matamoros April 16, 2016 3:57 PM  

Littlest Chickenhawk reminds me of an old canard against jewish chickenhaws:

Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war;
We'll stay behind and make the uniforms, just like before!

Anonymous mature-Craig April 16, 2016 4:21 PM  

I recall thinking that

the US Army would be able to -kick Iraq and Afghanistan's ass-

but knowing what I know now, the casualties, IEDs, foreign countries doing who knows what,

I would have agreed with Vox and been against the war

still as a man shame on me for being pro war and not enlisting, I should have just kept quiet

Blogger The Other Robot April 16, 2016 5:12 PM  

Was Sandy Hoax a play to bankrupt gun manufacturers?

Blogger Tom K. April 16, 2016 5:14 PM  

At the age of 11/12 your lungs aren't even fully developed. Especially if you were a premie. And you became a runner? The doctors diagnosis was bullshit.

You should have just lied. Sixth Grade? Never used it? The answer should have been "No."

Why should you have sabotaged your own dream because of a doctor's bad diagnosis?

Blogger Tom K. April 16, 2016 5:23 PM  

That is no longer the slogan. Which, by the way, was voted one the No. 1 advertising slogans of the 20th century!

Nope. Now YOU are an Army of ONE! Fuck everyone else!

Oh, wait! That one didn't last long.

Now I believe the slogan is, "There's strong. And then there's Army Strong."

WTF does that mean? I have no idea!

Blogger Tom K. April 16, 2016 5:23 PM  

That is no longer the slogan. Which, by the way, was voted one the No. 1 advertising slogans of the 20th century!

Nope. Now YOU are an Army of ONE! Fuck everyone else!

Oh, wait! That one didn't last long.

Now I believe the slogan is, "There's strong. And then there's Army Strong."

WTF does that mean? I have no idea!

Blogger Tom Kratman April 16, 2016 5:41 PM  

CS: Except that as a company commander you're supposed to put one (just one) in yourself to earn your recruiter's badge (and not all do; yes I did. It's sort of a peacetime CIB), it's just another command. The people who are crap recruiting company commanders probably weren't much for commanding in the line, either. Allowing, of course, for simple bad luck for some folks. OTOH, I took command of a company that hadn't made mission in at least three and we suspected five years, and had them making both regular and reserve missions in 10 weeks, so I wouldn't assume bad luck when someone fails in USAREC.

However, it is fucking hard work, 18 hour _busy_ days, seven days a week, and less fun than, say, a rifle company. Not no fun, but less.

Blogger Tom Kratman April 16, 2016 5:43 PM  

DC:

I actually volunteered for USAREC because I (understatement!) liked commanding and it was a chance at a third company command. But, you know, almost anything can get old after a while.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents April 16, 2016 5:57 PM  


Now I believe the slogan is, "There's strong. And then there's Army Strong."


Deoderant commercial, obviously.

Blogger The Other Robot April 16, 2016 6:11 PM  

@103: I actually volunteered for USAREC because I (understatement!) liked commanding and it was a chance at a third company command. But, you know, almost anything can get old after a while.

Including writing a series of novels, I believe.

However, I live in hope. I would pay for it in its current state. Really!

Anonymous BGKB April 16, 2016 6:37 PM  

Kratman OTOH, I took command of a company that hadn't made mission in at least three and we suspected five years, and had them making both regular and reserve missions in 10 weeks

You said you where out chasing nurses for nurse recruitment, at a nursing school that put out lots of nurses.

Blogger Tom Kratman April 16, 2016 6:44 PM  

Working on it TOR and hope and expect you won't have to use a Ouija noard to get the ending.

Blogger Tom Kratman April 16, 2016 6:46 PM  

Not chasing, though there was a hot RN female captain at USAREC that I'm actually certain I could have bagged if I been of a mind to. Thing was, though, that even if I'd been of a mind to, she was a captain, I was a captain, and there was something decidedly gay about sex with a peer. And I don't do that shit.

Blogger Tom Kratman April 16, 2016 6:55 PM  

Paradigm:

This was the best recruiting commercial in history: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUz5mPjp_pQ

All the old soldiers loved it and none loved it more than the infantry types, except for the infantry types with tabs and scrolls. However, Mom - the national Mommie - did _not_ love it. Mom hated it. Mom hated the idea that we were about fighting, crawling through swamps, being physically miserable, and shivering in the cold. Or, rather, she didn't give a shit what we did, but we were not going to do that to _her_ precious little darling.

It was, thus, a major recruiting disaster, shown only once on national TV.

Blogger The Other Robot April 16, 2016 7:10 PM  

@109: Just as women have to experience some pain to bring their little darlings into the world, [some] men have to experience some pain (and sometimes a lot of pain) to ensure that other women can continue to enjoy their freedoms (or at least the promise of freedom.)

Anonymous BGKB April 16, 2016 7:15 PM  

Tom K I purposely failed the DLAB test because I was told if you scored too high you would get stuck doing some dirty work like Iran-contra. What would have happened to a medic that scored too high on the DLAB?

"There's strong. And then there's Army Strong."

The 9mm strong enough for a man but made for a woman.

Its absurd how picky the Military is over medical issues.

If people have medical issues when they get out they get paid service connected disability, a woman that had a hysterectomy while in service will get 50% service connected disability, the same amount a guy with bilateral below the knee amputations would get.

Blogger The Other Robot April 16, 2016 7:29 PM  

The 9mm strong enough for a man but made for a woman.

I find that the recoil of a 45 is little different to the recoil of a 9mm.

They both destroy a Korean BBQ with ease, as well.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 16, 2016 7:51 PM  

Only homosexuals use 9mm

Anonymous Mike April 16, 2016 8:34 PM  

Doc Rampage: "I really envy this talent of long-distance telepathy"

It's called "reading." I'll be glad to teach you.

Blogger Justin C April 16, 2016 8:39 PM  

I was 18 years old on 9/11. I was dumb and got caught up in the perceived romance of enlisting and going to war. I didn't have much prospects anyway, barely making my way through community college.

So I enlisted in the Army Reserve. I was 5'11 at 130 lbs so it was about all I thought I could probably handle. I was in a transportation unit. Served in Kuwait. I never did anything heroic but I learned a lot about life. I transferred to the air force once my enlistment was up and I outgrown the youthful idealism I once had. These wars are'nt worth me getting shot over.

Blogger Justin C April 16, 2016 8:42 PM  

BTW I had scoliosis, (ruck marches were excruciating) I had to sign waivers for. I wear glasses, and legally, I was 6 pounds underweight. I surprised the Army took me in retrospect.

Anonymous Takin' a Look April 16, 2016 8:46 PM  

I can't enlist, physical disability. Even so, I've always wondered..."road not taken, (or in my case, closed) and all that".

It does make me feel less of a man sometimes. I did ask if I could be a "civilian support" in some fashion, the answer I got was "care packages".

Anonymous BGKB April 16, 2016 8:54 PM  

can't enlist, physical disability. Even so, I've always wondered

you are probably more physically capable than the rangerettes. The Brooke Army Medical Center held special PT tests for nurses so they could be promoted, since they couldn't if PT FLAGED. Some of the women thought they cut their 2 mile run times by 16+ min without any trying. A 50 yo man and a 20 yo woman could finish the 2 mile run at the same time and its possible that the 50yo failed but the 20yo woman passed.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr April 16, 2016 9:13 PM  

@117 Takin:
The services use a lot of Civil Service personnel for technical positions not officially under fire. Depends on the skill set. They're usually hiring engineers of and type.

Anonymous kfg April 16, 2016 9:30 PM  

"you are probably more physically capable than the rangerettes."

The electricians union refused me on sight, but even I (and I can sort of remember 50) am more physically capable than a rangerette.

In December I passed Army Basic PFT (only 50 points) for 22-26. I'm looking to pass the 17-21 bracket this year.

And I can out pull up any female marine. Even if a woman is relatively strong she simply can't have the same leanness as a man without falling right over.

Blogger Lazarus April 16, 2016 10:02 PM  

Justin C wrote:These wars are'nt worth me getting shot over.

Wouldn't it be grand if everybody had this realization?
At least you know it. Take your blessing and run.

Blogger Kona Commuter April 16, 2016 10:29 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Doc Rampage April 16, 2016 10:34 PM  

Mike wrote:Doc Rampage: "I really envy this talent of long-distance telepathy"

It's called "reading." I'll be glad to teach you.



Yes, Mike, teach me!

But you needn't be so modest! Someone writes an article purportedly about international politics and you can ferret out their innermost demons from it? You can tell from the style of their prose that they imagine themselves noble and brave! A less talented reader would just think they imagined that they were citizens of a militarily powerful country, but not you! No, you get in their HEADS, man! And your ability to detect the contempt dripping from their keyboards when they aren't even talking about the people they have contempt for--those who dare question them. How could they be expressing contempt for people that don't even come up in their article? No, you got that from pure ESP, don't deny it. Of course, your own evaluation of these people seemed a bit contemptuous, so someone who admired your talents less than I do might suggest that you are just projecting, but not me. I'm a believer!

Teach me, Mike! Show me what lines in Shapiro's article about the Iraq war revealed these secrets about his personality.

Blogger Kaz April 16, 2016 10:38 PM  


For the Jingoist, Fred Reed's Latest called "War, Football, and Realism: If Any." Is posted at iSteve.


Blogger Cataline Sergius April 16, 2016 11:00 PM  

Tom Kratman

My favorite Marine Corps commercial,is now and shall forever remain...The Lava Monster.

Anonymous Carl Crowe2 April 16, 2016 11:40 PM  

"But unless and until he recants his public statement about hunting down and disemploying racists, (and assuming no further evidence of his social justice sympathies is discovered) he quite clearly belongs on it."

Assume an employer discovers he has in his employ a vocal and known racists. Assume the presence of that racist in his employ is hurting his business due to people choosing to no longer do business with him. Is he justified firing the racist?

The answer is to this rhetorical query is, of course, yes? So, is a person who opposes racism justified in calling on people to not do business with an establishment that employs a known racist?

Anonymous Takin' a Look April 16, 2016 11:45 PM  

@Napoleon 12pdr

Thanks, I was told "care packages".

Anonymous Takin' a Look April 16, 2016 11:49 PM  

@ BGKB

Yes, I was. I could have probably destroyed 90% of other recruits and sucked down a pop and a smoke afterwards.

Anonymous Jack Amok April 16, 2016 11:57 PM  

I hear a lot of "I almost enlisted, but" stories. Most of them smell of bullshit.

Well then here's my "almost enlisted" story. In 1988 I almost enlisted with the Navy for flight school. Passed the physical, the psych, the written, was even measured to make sure I'd fit it the cockpit. All I had to do was sign.

But it was a minimum 9 year commitment, and at 21, 9 years seemed like an awful long time. The thought that kept nagging at me was, what if I don't like it?

So I said no.

In hindsight, I figure it was for the best. My dad (Navy air crew) would have been over the moon if his son was an Airedale. But, I'd have served most of those 9 years under Clinton. God know how many Serbs I would've had to bomb.

Anonymous Takin' a Look April 17, 2016 12:33 AM  

Thank you BGKB and Napoleon 12pdr for your encouragement :-)

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY April 17, 2016 2:43 AM  
















" Wouldn't it be grand if everybody had this realization?At least you know it. Take your blessing and run."
Run, muthafukka. I'm gonna pick your sorry ass off.

Anonymous abu-kaliforni April 17, 2016 11:59 AM  

@25 I wasn't directly calling your story into question, simply stating that many of the most bloodthirsty for war have to stare at their feet when asked if they were honestly willing to serve.

Being on the enlisted side myself, a lot of the romanticism about service is a load of shit as well, especially in some of the more cerebral fields like Intel.

Anonymous Athor Pel April 17, 2016 1:13 PM  

"134. abu-kaliforni April 17, 2016 11:59 AM
...
Being on the enlisted side myself, a lot of the romanticism about service is a load of shit as well, especially in some of the more cerebral fields like Intel.
"


Ha.

USS Pueblo and USS Liberty are the two dedicated naval intel platforms I know that have been fired on with loss of life. There were many US Air Force intel platforms shot down during the Cold War. Here's a link,
http://www.rc135.com/0011/SHOOTDOW.HTM
Do a text search for "RB-" to find the dedicated recon planes.

While attending DLI I read "Puzzle Palace" by James Bamford. In it I saw what kind of perpetual game of chicken the US plays with their intel platforms. You see, if you want to find out what kind of air defenses are actually there those air defenses have to be turned on for you to detect and identify them. How do you get them to turn on? Why, you fly directly into their air space with planes filled to the gills with electronics and the crew to run it all and you fly as far into their territory as needed for that to happen.

For me it was being a clerk with a shitty schedule and high stress while working in buildings with no windows, sometimes dug into hillsides and vault doors at the main entrance. Rotating shift work does bad things to your brain chemistry. But it's still nothing compared to getting shot at.

Blogger Verne April 17, 2016 7:25 PM  

@22 The Other Robot wrote:If he had been smarter he could have forestalled all the chickenhawk remarks by showing, with photos, that he applied and they rejected him.

You pretty much missed my point. IQ, knowledge and wisdom, they are not the same things.

Blogger Akulkis April 17, 2016 10:20 PM  

@119

"
It does make me feel less of a man sometimes. I did ask if I could be a "civilian support" in some fashion, the answer I got was "care packages"."

You might not think it's much, but to us soldiers in theater, they mean a lot, even when coming from complete strangers.

Blogger sysadmn April 18, 2016 2:10 PM  

You watch - if Shapiro ever decides to run for office, he'll pull a Gary Hart and get a commission in the Navy Reserve or MC Reserve JAG. It's amazing what being a senator or getting a phone call from someone on the senator's staff will do for you.

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