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Friday, April 29, 2016

SJWs ruin Watership Down

This sort of cultural and creative degradation is why I will never show even a modicum of mercy to SJWs. This is why there is no place for them in any civilized society. They are pure hraka. They are pollution. They infest every organization they are permitted to enter and they infect everything they touch.
It was the film that traumatised a generation of children, with its much-loved rabbit characters slain on screen in graphic and memorable scenes. But the story of Watership Down is to be remade for a new era, as programme-makers promise to tone down its most brutal images.

The BBC has teamed up with Netflix for one of the most expensive mini-series ever made for the small screen, and the first animated four-part drama of its kind.The show’s executive producer told the Telegraph the 2017 version will not just tone down the levels of on-screen violence to make it more appropriate for children, but give a boost to its female characters.

Female rabbits including Clover, played by Gemma Arterton, Strawberry, played by Olivia Colman, and Hyzenthlay, played by Anne-Marie Duff, will get a dose of doe power, as it were, to allow them to display their own heroics alongside their male co-stars.
This is why we need our own institutions. This is why we need to keep every single SJW out. They destroy everything in the interests of convergence. That is their sole objective and their primary activity.

This is also why I will never sell the movie rights to my books. I won't risk putting them in SJW hands. In time, we will build our own studios. Castalia is just the start.

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289 Comments:

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Anonymous Kreator April 29, 2016 5:10 AM  

And child-friendly somewhat leaning in grrl powa version of WSD was created in 1999.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooKq34DoiNs&list=PL6BEE5B8C123F2E3B

I still liked it for what it was.

Blogger Marshall Mead April 29, 2016 5:16 AM  

Weird.
I just learned about the original and then its instantly SJWed

Anonymous Takin' a Look April 29, 2016 5:18 AM  

May the U hrair rend their flesh from their cracked bones and suck the hot marrow as they scream!


Blogger L. Beau April 29, 2016 5:21 AM  

"...give a boost to its female characters." That is flipping the bird to Richard Adams and his text, but the whole "tone down" thing is actually an insult to the audience as well.

Watership Down, in its 1978 screen adaptation wasn't really meant to be a children's film, although, like many school-age children, I enjoyed it when I saw it on cable TV some years after its release. Kittens become cats, after all, and sooner or later children have to grow up.

To borrow from Ambrose Bierce, if the idea of one imaginary animal killing another imaginary animal is too much for you, why not take up knitting?

Anonymous TheDividualist April 29, 2016 5:33 AM  

>In time, we will build our own studios. Castalia is just the start.

Until that, let's generate some publicity to anti-SJW amateur filmmakers, studios etc.

Blogger Aeoli Pera April 29, 2016 5:33 AM  

Netflix is heavily converged. The anime they push the hardest (Seven Deadly Sins) features romantic relationships between children and adults.

Blogger weka April 29, 2016 5:33 AM  

Watership Down had a divergent species -- Rabbits -- and the movie was ruined because it was toned down.

Has no one apart from me read Shardik? Adams did not avoid gore. He could write.

The movie is nowhere near as good as the book and has the worlds worst theme song. This will be like making Mina in Stoker's Dracula a ur-vampire.

Blogger Aeoli Pera April 29, 2016 5:40 AM  

I'm starting to wonder if Satan has changed his mind about convincing the world he doesn't exist.

Anonymous gxg April 29, 2016 5:45 AM  

In the book, there's a scene where young hippie bunnies are scornful of war and dismissive of the old, battle-scarred warrior bunnies who fought for their warren's survival.

Perhaps those hippie bunnies can be the heroes of the film version.

Blogger Michael Maier April 29, 2016 5:48 AM  

I haven't seen the 1970s version since the early 80s. Worth buying?

Blogger Al From Bay Shore April 29, 2016 5:49 AM  

This is kinda like the feminist re-write of Antigone. I cannot remember the author's name.

Blogger Ahazuerus April 29, 2016 5:55 AM  

Aeoli

Nobody, not even the devil, wants to wield ultimate power in secret. All the stories of the secret kings end with them openly ruling.

Even the CIA and NSA love it when people tell scary stories about their power.

Just as long as they get to preserve their self-image as being good guys.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 29, 2016 6:00 AM  

The Fourth Unwritten Law; SJWs Ruin Everything.

I am now constantly monitoring my children's shows for attempts at brain washing and ideological contamination. I really don't want to have to watch Veggie Tales that closely but I know who owns it now and I can't blindly trust the brand anymore.

Anonymous Strange Aeons April 29, 2016 6:07 AM  

Rabbits gonna rabbit.
Rabbiting rabbits rabbit rabbits.
#TheRabbiting

Anonymous Pescadero April 29, 2016 6:35 AM  

Right, THIS is why you won't sell the movie rights... [chuckles]

Blogger VD April 29, 2016 6:42 AM  

Right, THIS is why you won't sell the movie rights... [chuckles]

It is. I've had three offers now, and many more casual inquiries.

Anonymous Steve April 29, 2016 6:48 AM  

I hate Watership Down.

Hate, hate, hate it.

It's from an era where cartoons went out of their way to traumatise little kids.

If you were ever in a video shop in the mid-80's, and said "Daddy, can you rent this one with the cartoon doggies on the cover?", only to get home and find out why it was called THE PLAGUE DOGS, you'll know what I mean.

See also:

* The Snowman - Everything you love will die. MERRY CHRISTMAS, CHILDREN!

* When The Wind Blows - We're all going to die in a nuclear holocaust.

* Who Framed Roger Rabbit - "Oh, it's got that funny scientist from BACK TO THE FUTURE in it. Wait a minute... WHAT THE FUCK IS HE DOING???!"

To hell with Watership Down.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 29, 2016 6:54 AM  

Right, THIS is why you won't sell the movie rights... [chuckles]

Dude, everything gets optioned these days. Admittedly 90 percent of that is just establishing squatters rights. Props to Vox for not playing that one.

Larry Correia did sell his rights to MHI when he was starting out and now that there is genuine interest by people like Dwayne Johnson in making it, he's running into all kinds of bullshit from the noname producer that bought it off him for pennies.

Anonymous Alice De Goon April 29, 2016 6:55 AM  

The movie is nowhere near as good as the book and has the worlds worst theme song. This will be like making Mina in Stoker's Dracula a ur-vampire.

Speaking of Dracula, you can find on YouTube somewhere a converged version of the story that the BBC put out way back in 1968. In it, Mina wasn't a victim of Dracula - he was merely offering her sexual liberation from those stuffy old, wimmen-hating Victorians! (Who hated women so much, they went and named the era they lived in after one!) At the end of the story, Mina willingly chose to become a vampire. Because it's better to choose a life where you have to hurt people to survive and must eventually suffer your soul being thrown into Hell for all eternity, than to not sleep with the hot bad boy you've been lusting after. (Who will probably toss you aside the moment he gets tired of you.) To hear that the BBC is up to its old tricks and that it involves one of the most hard-hitting, unflinching animated films of all time, is disheartening to say the least.

The BBC: Rearranging great literary classics to conform to the Death Cult of Post-Modernism since 1968!

(I'm actually quite surprised they managed to pull off a relatively faithful adaptation of "The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe" back in the 1980s. But then again, it was CS Lewis, and there's a limit to how much you can POZ him up...)

Blogger JamesE Hamilton April 29, 2016 6:55 AM  

The movie is never as good as the book; that applied to the original movie in spades, anyway.

But a femburo remake of the movie? That doesn't quite reach the level of pathetic.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 6:58 AM  

Steve..

Shut up.

Blogger Josh April 29, 2016 7:06 AM  

Btw Vox, y'all got an absolute monster last night. Treadwell is a beast.

Anonymous Steve April 29, 2016 7:06 AM  

Nate - What, I don't merit the courtesy of a "sugartits"? Good day to you, sir!

Alice - The 80's BBC adaption of The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe was a wonderful effort on a painfully low budget. Hard to imagine today's poztastic BBC making something as faithful.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 29, 2016 7:07 AM  

The BBC has teamed up with Netflix...

I knew the show was ruined when I got that far into the sentence.

BBC is both SJW Convergent and government owned. They are so secure in their complete need to never make a profit that they spun themselves off from the rather successful Jeremy Clarkson Network.

Slapping a producer? Really? Truly? Some of the old timey Hollywood guys were doubtless screaming, "Slapped you! SLAPPED YOU!! When Marlon Brando raped me, did I go screaming to Human Resources? No. I told him to get back to the set or and finish the scene or I was calling the cops. AND HE WENT!"

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 7:12 AM  

"It's from an era where cartoons went out of their way to traumatise little kids."

1) I was one of those kids. I loved Watership Down. Hands down it was my favorite movie. I even had a huge pet rabbit and named him BigWig.

2) Violence doesn't traumatize kids. Read the grimm fairy tales. The real ones. Not the watered down bullshit disney versions. Tell us all about how they went out of their way to traumatize kids. Because I do believe the violence involved in almost every one of them is much worse that a rabbit fight. Ever read about a woman being forced to dance in red hot shoes until she dies? or cutting her own feet in half to force them into a slipper?

3) Cartoons are not for kids. Cartoons are a genre of their own and always have been. A subset of toons are for kids. But if you are dumb enough to just turn your kid loose with toons and assume its all appropriate... then that's on you.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 29, 2016 7:25 AM  

I even had a huge pet rabbit and named him BigWig.


Filing that one away for future use.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 7:27 AM  

"Filing that one away for future use."

Rabbit was awesome. psychopath neighbor kid shot him and killed him with a pellet gun... paid for it dearly.

I have no idea how you get that many lead paint covered splinters out of a kid's tongue... bet it wasn't fun though.

Anonymous Steve April 29, 2016 7:32 AM  

Nate -

1) Watership Down left me with an abiding hatred of rabbits and Art Garfunkel. I detest everything about it, including the drab colour scheme and weirdly stylised runny cartoon mouths.

2) Scenes of horror do traumatise kids. Did you never have nightmares as a boy? My soul is still scarred from seeing Pinocchio's friend scream and scream and bray for his mamma while he turned into a donkey. Little children need love and laughter, not fear and grotesquerie.

3) Cartoons are for kids, 9 times out of 10. Watership Down (which came with a "U" rating!), The Plague Dogs, Roger Rabbit, and Pinocchio were all marketed at children.

Anonymous Weak April 29, 2016 7:32 AM  

Does anyone know if Mr Tingle has optioned his Hugo nominated work to become a movie? Maybe that can be Castalia Studios first film.

Blogger Student in Blue April 29, 2016 7:32 AM  

@Steve
Who Framed Roger Rabbit - "Oh, it's got that funny scientist from BACK TO THE FUTURE in it. Wait a minute... WHAT THE FUCK IS HE DOING???!"

When I was a wee lad I watched that movie until the tape wore out. And I mean like 5 years old.

How much did Watership Down really traumatize you? Really?

To the contra, we know how much keeping kids safe from anything "traumatizing" affects them -- they get turned into amydala-sensitive, r-selected rabbits.

OpenID basementhomebrewer April 29, 2016 7:34 AM  

Nate wrote:"It's from an era where cartoons went out of their way to traumatise little kids."

1) I was one of those kids. I loved Watership Down. Hands down it was my favorite movie. I even had a huge pet rabbit and named him BigWig.

2) Violence doesn't traumatize kids. Read the grimm fairy tales. The real ones. Not the watered down bullshit disney versions. Tell us all about how they went out of their way to traumatize kids. Because I do believe the violence involved in almost every one of them is much worse that a rabbit fight. Ever read about a woman being forced to dance in red hot shoes until she dies? or cutting her own feet in half to force them into a slipper?

3) Cartoons are not for kids. Cartoons are a genre of their own and always have been. A subset of toons are for kids. But if you are dumb enough to just turn your kid loose with toons and assume its all appropriate... then that's on you.




I actually think it was, like the Grimm fairy tales, for kids. The point is to teach kids about how the real world works. It's why most people in my generation (I'm on the old side of being a millennial) are so out of touch with reality. I remember enough of the 80's that I picked up the difference between the real world and make believe. Once the 90's rolled around there were no real consequences shown in kids entertainment. Instead it turned into SJW brain washing.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 29, 2016 7:34 AM  

Back to the topic.

The SJW rot in entertainment is going to get much, much more noticeable because they are going to be pillaging all of childhood memories.

Did you know that 94% of all new movies last year were franchise releases of some kind or another? I didn't make that statistic up. Almost everything now is a sequel, a reboot or came from another title (Comics, YA lit and so on)

Because of Netflix, Hulu, youtube, Crackle, Fear.net. a billion cable channels and on and on, there has now been a Blurring Effect in pop culture entertainment. When Ghostbusters came out you could hype the hell out a new property and buy back your percentage through heavy marketing. One well placed TV ad could reach tens of millions. You could spend your way to cultural impact. That sure as hell ain't happening anymore. It just isn't possible to reach that big of an audience.

Movies are a business and in a business you need to minimize risk. The surest way to do that is to pick a property that is immune to the Blurring Effect. You pick something that already has a cultural impact.

Anything made before 1995 that was popular fits the bill.

Consequently there was no way in hell that Ghostbusters was going to be allowed to stay on the shelf. In this environment some kind of reboot was inevitable. If Jem became a live action movie, Ghostbusters the...Ghostbusters was absolutely going to happen.

Anonymous Spinrad's Agent April 29, 2016 7:35 AM  

I look forward to the BBC and Netflix updating 1984 (Big Sister overseeing a happy multicultural society) or One Day in the Life of Svetlana Denisovich (a story about a black nurse in a resort for Syrian migrants in eastern Russia).

Richard Adams turns 96 next week. I'll lift a glass to toast him.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 7:41 AM  

Steve.

1) That's because obviously you were a huge pussy. No doubt raised in a city by people striving to turn you into a huge pussy.

2) I remember having a few nightmares as a child and they pissed me off severely... so ended up learning to stay somewhat conscience in my dreams so I could control them. once I realized that controlling dreams was about controlling my mind it was done.

3) Watership Down, Roger Rabit, and such were all given PG ratings here sent a clear warning to everyone that these were not disney cartoons. Pinocchio? you're seriously going on about pinoccho?

So violence traumatizes kids...

OK city boy. No wonder all these farm kids grow up with PTSD from learning to kill and slaughter when they are 5 and 6 years old.

here's a lesson son... free of charge.

Don't be a pussy.

Blogger Durandel Almiras April 29, 2016 7:42 AM  

I'm with Nate on this. Life has gotten so soft and safe that people think children shouldn't and can't handle exposure to reality including the bad aspects, such as violence. And what has that produced other than several generations of reality disconnected twits?

I also have a few friends who as children experienced real violence, such as the last political overthrow in Haiti. Saw their relatives executed on their front lawn, stuff like that. Some of the most generous, well adjusted people I know since they treat life and others as precious.

@Aeoli - I never thought of Satan as the original SJW. Throws a trigglypuff level tantrum because God triggered him when he ordered Satan to bow to Adam. How dare God force Satan to lower his self-esteem. And God knew what to do with SJWs, kick them out and let them live in their converged hell of choice.

Vox is just doing God's work.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 7:45 AM  

"I'm with Nate on this."

Roll Tide.

Blogger Thucydides April 29, 2016 7:51 AM  

Building your own studios is almost unnessesary anymore.

Look at the saga of Axanar, where a group of film makers was able to use crowd funding to attempt to make a studio quality "Star Trek" movie. Looking at the teaser clips, studio quality equipment, CGI software and effects were all possible with approximately $600,000 raised through crowd funding. About the only thing the Studios have that independent film makers don't is extravagant marketing budgets and control of the distribution of product to theatres.

In a 500 channel universe, where cable and even Amazon and Netflixx are relentlessly looking for original content, I'm pretty confident that you can sell your rights with confidence so long as you vet the team adapting the book carefully (and surely among the various ilk and minions viewing this site alone, there are likely enough people with the requisite skills and motivation to make high quality TV or movie adaptations of your work).

It lis really taking the lessons we are learning about the demise of the book and music industries and taking them to the next level.

Anonymous VFM #6306 April 29, 2016 7:53 AM  

Watership Down is too obscure a name and depressing. I know! They could rename it The Hutch Bunnies!

Blogger Gaiseric April 29, 2016 7:55 AM  

Steve wrote:Scenes of horror do traumatise kids. Did you never have nightmares as a boy? My soul is still scarred from seeing Pinocchio's friend scream and scream and bray for his mamma while he turned into a donkey. Little children need love and laughter, not fear and grotesquerie.
No, they need some scenes of horror too. I was 6 when Watership Down came out, and I found it fascinating (I think I watched it a few years later, so I was probably closer to 9 or 10. I immediately went out and got the book at the public library and read it. That was even more fascinating.

Maybe my family is a little different than yours. We were the guys laughing at the airplane and truck fight scenes in Raiders of the Lost Ark because of all of the gags. The face-melting was classic, even for my little brothers who would have been very small.

Seriously; if the death of some cartoon rabbits traumatized you, you needed to see more of that kind of stuff, not less.

That said; Walt Disney was no SJW. He was fiercely devoted to traditional morality and family values, and was the only studio head in Hollywood who successfully purged his studio of communists. But this new Watership Down isn't all that different from what Disney did to the fairy tales.

Well; except for the stupid grrl power vibe, of course.

Blogger Durandel Almiras April 29, 2016 7:57 AM  

@Cataline - the more industries like Hollywood, go into protection mode, supporting reboots and rehashes with SJW messages thrown in, the more they pave the way for new companies to step in and take control. Eventually more and more people will get sick of the movie message fiction and the destruction of good stories for the sake of The Narrative and Social Justice.

Movies have cheapened in their quality. That's why more and more have stopped going to the theater overall and wait for it to show up in rental formats. Why pay $15 for a movie that feels like it's worth $5 at best? This trend will accelerate and as the Culture War heats up, more will deliberately reject films because of it's message. How many do you know went to see the new GhostBusters film? 0 for me.

Anonymous Steve April 29, 2016 7:58 AM  

Student - How much did Watership Down really traumatize you? Really?

You've seen the pictures I share, right?

Nate -

1) When you ASSume, it makes an ASS out of U! I said "good day!"

2) I have nightmares most nights. It was worse as a child, because at least I now know there isn't really a dead voice, buzzing like flies, coming from the radiator.

3) I'm gonna double down on this: there's enough pain and trauma in the world. I don't think 5 year olds need to see it in their cartoons.

Seeing the little red headed boy have a magical adventure with his Snowman pal, then rush out the next morning (Christmas morning!) to find he'd melted into a dirty puddle of slush, and the movie ending with a child heartbroken and bereft, did nothing to help me win fights in the playground.

OTOH, I have no problem with kids seeing stylised fantasy violence such as in The Avengers or Captain America. There's an essentially upbeat and optimistic tone to those films, which is healthy.

Anonymous Laz April 29, 2016 8:00 AM  

" We were the guys laughing at the airplane and truck fight scenes in Raiders of the Lost Ark because of all of the gags. The face-melting was classic, even for my little brothers who would have been very small."

We're the same way. Laughed my ass off at the face melting. Hell, dad and I laughed in the theater when the Bear Jew smashed that Nazi on top of the head with the bat. Everybody was looking at us like we grew another head. lol

Anonymous RC April 29, 2016 8:04 AM  

"Don't be a pussy." - Nate

The best advice I've ever read coming from Nate's keyboard over all these years.

I keep a list of boys my girls can never marry. This week a kid was out helping build the set for their upcoming play. It was time for some practice, so I grabbed a pistol and walked to my range, probably 200 yards+ away from them and started shooting. The kid asked one of my girls what that noise was. They responded that it was just me shooting, nothing to worry about. "Shooting?! A real gun?" The kid was petrified. 17 years old and has never shot a gun. The kid's got a dad too. Pussy. Added him to the list that day.

Blogger Aeoli Pera April 29, 2016 8:04 AM  

Steve wrote:2) I have nightmares most nights. It was worse as a child, because at least I now know there isn't really a dead voice, buzzing like flies, coming from the radiator.

Does sounds like marbles from ghost name of Barbara (sweetest woman) but she's froxen lady now. Its sad days why oh on hno

Anonymous Steve April 29, 2016 8:07 AM  

Gaiseric - Maybe my family is a little different than yours. We were the guys laughing at the airplane and truck fight scenes in Raiders of the Lost Ark because of all of the gags. The face-melting was classic, even for my little brothers who would have been very small.

Me too. And I loved RoboCop as a kid.

It's not the violence I found disturbing, it's the horror.

So.. when RoboCop shoots a rapist in the cock, that's funny.

When a cartoon bunny tears another bunny to shreds with his teeth, that's horror.

Blogger Salt April 29, 2016 8:07 AM  

Nate wrote:So violence traumatizes kids...

I watched Tarzan when I was young. Plenty of killing and fighting huge snakes, charging elephants, and tigers. Not to mention the indigenous tribes. Great times watching that stuff.

Anonymous Laz April 29, 2016 8:07 AM  

"OTOH, I have no problem with kids seeing stylised fantasy violence such as in The Avengers or Captain America. There's an essentially upbeat and optimistic tone to those films, which is healthy."

WTF!? So live action death and violence is ok but cartoon violence and death aren't? (shakes head)

Anonymous Dave Gerrold's Cabana Boy April 29, 2016 8:12 AM  

seconding Nate on that as well.

Loved Watership Down, though I hated, and still hate that stupid song "Bright Eyes" by Garfunkel.

And my parents read me the unabridged Grimm tales as well.

Ppl are too soft these days...though that is about to change.

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 29, 2016 8:13 AM  

The original book is a stone cold classic, arguably the best first novel ever written and one of the great low fantasy epics.

Changing a great story because girl power is beyond story. You don't need to change it. The original is good enough.

Blogger Student in Blue April 29, 2016 8:13 AM  

@Steve
You've seen the pictures I share, right?

Better that than requiring a safe space as an adult man.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 8:16 AM  

"WTF!? So live action death and violence is ok but cartoon violence and death aren't? (shakes head)"

well see there is blood. apparently its the blood. oh and the yelling.

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 29, 2016 8:17 AM  

People act as if the old Disney fairy tales were so non-violent. This is a myth. They could be pretty messed up, starting all the way back when the Queen asked the Huntsman for Snow White's heart in a box.

Pinocchio had that disturbing donkey scene.

Hey, Bambi is Bambi. The scene is legendary.

Even the more modern ones - In "The Lion King" Mufasa gets trampled to death. One song takes place in a Hellish underworld with Nazi hyenas. It is heavily implied that Scar is torn limb from limb by hyenas.

"Beauty and the Beast" can be legitimately frightening too, and "Hunchback". Disney doesn't get enough credit.

Blogger YIH April 29, 2016 8:19 AM  

Nate:
3) Cartoons are for kids, 9 times out of 10.
He's right on that one. Pre-TV, the purpose of the cartoons was to keep the kids fixed to their seats so the parents could go to the concession counter - or as part of the mix for Saturday matinees. In the TV era, it was to keep the kids occupied so Mom and Dad could sleep in - or work on making more kids.
It wasn't until the late 80's that anyone began to take an adult audience for them seriously - with rare exceptions such as Heavy Metal.

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 29, 2016 8:21 AM  

YIH,

The Looney Tunes cartoons and others of that ilk (Merrie Melodies, even Silly Symphonies) from the 30's and 40's were NOT for kids. Look at Tex Avery's body of work. Look at "What's Opera Doc". No kid is going to get what that's parodying.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 8:22 AM  

1) I'm not assuming mate. I'm accurately applying a term to the description you already gave. we have a word for someone that thinks pinochio is traumatic. that word.. is "pussy".

2) Were you in NAM? Have you killed people? seen your buddy's brains blown out? Did some dude break into your house and murder your mom? Any of these are great reasons for a man to have nightmares. That's life. But if none of this has happened.. and you are just chickenshit of your own imagination... then you're a poster boy of how to turn men into huge pussies. You don't have to actually answer this. I like you... so I'm just going to assume your parents were killed in front of you like Batman. if that's not true and you haven't endured something like that... don't tell me.

3) My 4 year old daughter has more balls than you do. and I mean that literally. She's seen real world violence... the after math of all of our chickens torn to pieces.. legs here.. guts there... feathers everywhere... not even eaten just ripped apart for the sake of it... her response? "Daddy. We are gonna kill what ever did this." She doesn't have nightmares.

Anonymous Steve April 29, 2016 8:23 AM  

Laz - WTF!? So live action death and violence is ok but cartoon violence and death aren't? (shakes head)

Yes.

The difference is tone.

When the Hulk picks up Loki and batters him against the floor, it's in the context of an uplifting story of good battling - and ultimately winning - against evil.

Whereas Watership Down had a claustrophic sense of creeping dread throughout the story. The violence is presented in the medium of a cartoon, but it isn't cartoony. It's visceral and realistic.

The Snowman ends on the worst bum note in children's movie history. What are tiny tots supposed to take from seeing a little tyke standing alone and bereaved in the snow?

When the Nazis' faces melt off in Raiders, it's funny and gross and they deserve it because they're the baddies. It would be different if, say, we saw Short Round or Henry Jones Sr. being brutally killed.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 8:26 AM  

"People act as if the old Disney fairy tales were so non-violent. "

God I miss Bane... we would be calling all of you faggots right now... of course Bane would be crying for you while he did it.

Blogger CM April 29, 2016 8:26 AM  

I think the difference between Steve's approved violence and Steve's unapproved violence is the clear cut, black & white good vs evil where violence is washed clean of blood, guts, and brain splatter.

While that kind of violence has its place, I stand with Nate on the more realistic violence and more complex framing of good v evil.

As a kid, most Don Bluth films gave me nightmares, but they are mostly great movies. And Willow... Nightmares galore, but I loved it.

The only movie I hate that gave me nightmares was dumbo. Elephants on parade is the worst song.

Thing is, even the most innocent thing can give a child nightmares. Falling out of bed, wetting one's pants, making mommy and daddy angry... While needlessly traumatising kids is one thing, sheltering the!m from everything is not any better.

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 29, 2016 8:26 AM  

Steve,

"Watership Down" is very notable, though, in that NONE of the book's main characters die. That book is THE textbook example to use when you need to point out that killing off characters isn't necessary to raise stakes or indicate Things Are Serious.

J.K. Rowling and Joss Whedon, I'm looking at you.

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 29, 2016 8:28 AM  

Nate,

I'm not saying I had nightmares. I watched them when I was five and younger and loved them. I'm just saying that accusations that they're these sanitized cotton candy films is wrong. If you think that...you're wrong.

You just are.

Blogger Aeoli Pera April 29, 2016 8:28 AM  

Cartoons directly engage the imagination. Hence the common misconception that they are only for children. Cultures and people with better aesthetic faculties appreciate cartoons more.

Steve, I still have plenty of nightmares too but I think they're good for you.

Blogger tz April 29, 2016 8:30 AM  

@35 - exactly.
One of my questions for the libertopians is will the society be one of sheep, wolves, or a mix. (I add sheepdogs later).
Out in the country, there are things that will try to kill you. It cannot be made into a safe space.
Predators can cooperate and get along - better since escalation has a high cost. Prey just huddle and hope they won't be dinner today.
Molyneux is an advocate of "peaceful parenting", but I'm not sure if to him it means his daughter will be a ewe or a bitch. Not hitting little predators is a good idea. Training little prey that nothing hurts is not because reality bites, only reality's representative changes.
Peaceful as in everyone has a loaded peace-maker and knows how to use it is different than naivety or ignorance.
But the city folks think chicken comes from WalMart or McDonalds.

OpenID squawkbox April 29, 2016 8:33 AM  

Fuck. These people are like Morgoth. Unable to create anything themselves, all they can do is twist and pervert the creations of others.

Blogger tz April 29, 2016 8:40 AM  

The problem is there is very little real violence. Saving Private Ryan had some, but too often the non-cartoon shows and movies have the bang and someone drops to the ground without the pool of blood.
I think that is one of the reasons police are now hated - the videos of them show real violence, not the sanitized version. The sheep realize they are wolves among them - and think they only dress in blue.

Blogger Aeoli Pera April 29, 2016 8:40 AM  

tz wrote:
But the city folks think chicken comes from WalMart or McDonalds.



The implications of modern slaughterhouses are orders of magnitude more horrifying than mere butchery. This is coming from someone known for eating meat by the pound.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 8:42 AM  

"While that kind of violence has its place, I stand with Nate on the more realistic violence and more complex framing of good v evil."

hold hold hold on. There is a difference between showing some blood and a clear cut good vs evil.

For example... no way I'm letting my kids watch the new Cap movie Civil War. That's what I keep them away from. Ironman vs Cap? WHo's the good guy?

Bigwig versus the General? We know who the good guy is.

Blogger Nick S April 29, 2016 8:43 AM  

In time, we will build our own studios. Castalia is just the start.

The theme park is going to be awesome!

Blogger Aeoli Pera April 29, 2016 8:44 AM  

For example: What do you feed cattle to make them fat? Corn. Why are Americans fat? Corn. Why is corn in every food you buy? Good question, keep tracing.

And that's just one implication.

Anonymous Viidad April 29, 2016 8:46 AM  

I'm with Steve on this one, but I'd take it further. Many "children's" films, particularly from the era I grew up in, are twisted. Made by twisted, sick people with their own agendas.

My children can pluck and gut chickens and have seen me kill raccoons... but we stay away from Hollywood. Not good, not pure, not lovely - and there's no reason to watch it. Why watch it? Evil exists in the world, sure - but I don't want to bring more into their lives intentionally.

Blogger Thomas Davidsmeier April 29, 2016 8:51 AM  

Viidad, I'm right there with you. Speaking of chicken plucking, do you have a machine or do you do small enough numbers that it is all by hand for you?

Blogger Gaiseric April 29, 2016 8:53 AM  

Steve wrote:Me too. And I loved RoboCop as a kid.

It's not the violence I found disturbing, it's the horror.

So.. when RoboCop shoots a rapist in the cock, that's funny.

When a cartoon bunny tears another bunny to shreds with his teeth, that's horror.

And horror is something kids need to learn at a young age to deal with too.

Didn't you ever find a dead animal carcass while playing around outside as a kid? Heck, even in my suburban yard last summer I routinely find rabbits and pigeons torn to shreds by hawks while mowing the lawn.

Blogger doug whiddon April 29, 2016 8:53 AM  

Aeoli Pera "Netflix is heavily converged. The anime they push the hardest (Seven Deadly Sins) features romantic relationships between children and adults."

I watched that series all the way through and don't remember that. Can you provide an example?

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 8:53 AM  

" I'm just saying that accusations that they're these sanitized cotton candy films is wrong. If you think that...you're wrong."

Did you see anyone in cinerella cut her foot in half to make the slipper fit?

Did you see a wicked step mother scream while dancing in red hot shoes until she died?

No. You didn't.

That's what sanitize means. You only think it wasn't sanitized because you've never read the real thing.

There was no violence in Bambi. Bambi's mother tells him to run for the thicket and they run like they are being chased. There is another gun shot and it shows them running some more and she tells him to not look back. It shows him running.. there is a third gun shot... and it just keeps showing him running.

That's it. No violence at all.

Blogger Ilíon April 29, 2016 8:54 AM  

"Has no one apart from me read Shardik? Adams did not avoid gore."

I remember that one. It was mesmerizing -- and horrible (*) -- all at once.


(*) as in: Thank God I don't live in such a society. Except that the society I do live in has decided to become that one.

Blogger Christopher Yost April 29, 2016 8:56 AM  

The worst experiences for children regarding "those movies" are the reactions, comments and behavior of their dumbass parents.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 8:57 AM  

"I'm with Steve on this one, but I'd take it further. Many "children's" films, particularly from the era I grew up in, are twisted. Made by twisted, sick people with their own agendas. "

of course there are. That doesn't mean all of them are. The riki tiki tavi cartoon from the Jungle Book for example... all the 70s junglebook stuff actually was awesome.

and keeping your kids from seeing the good stuff is doing them no favors. Babies and Bathwater.

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 29, 2016 8:57 AM  

Nate,

Well, sure, yeah, the children's movies were not as violent as the original fairy tales. They weren't all sweetness and light either, as a lot of people wrongly claim.

"The original fairy tales" is also something people throw around a lot. Grimm's wasn't the original version of Cinderella...or most of those tales for that matter.

They were the VIOLENT versions.

Which is fine. But not every single fairy tale originated in Grimm's.

Blogger lowercaseb April 29, 2016 8:58 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 29, 2016 9:02 AM  

Here is a version older than Grimm's, by Charles Perrault:

They began to try [the slipper] on the princesses, then the duchesses and all the court, but in vain; it was brought to the two sisters, who did all they possibly could to force their foot into the slipper, but they did not succeed.

Cinderella, who saw all this, and knew that it was her slipper, said to them, laughing, "Let me see if it will not fit me."

...

[The Prince] had Cinderella sit down, and, putting the slipper to her foot, he found that it went on very easily, fitting her as if it had been made of wax. Her two sisters were greatly astonished, but then even more so, when Cinderella pulled out of her pocket the other slipper, and put it on her other foot. Then in came her godmother and touched her wand to Cinderella's clothes, making them richer and more magnificent than any of those she had worn before.

And now her two sisters found her to be that fine, beautiful lady whom they had seen at the ball. They threw themselves at her feet to beg pardon for all the ill treatment they had made her undergo. Cinderella took them up, and, as she embraced them, said that she forgave them with all her heart, and wanted them always to love her.


Disney didn't sanitize it. The Brothers Grimm made it darker.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 9:03 AM  

"They weren't all sweetness and light either, as a lot of people wrongly claim."

You people are damn loonies.

The biggest problem I had with Bambi was that it didn't show the hunter pray over the dead body with his son.

Blogger Aeoli Pera April 29, 2016 9:04 AM  

Nick S wrote:In time, we will build our own studios. Castalia is just the start.

The theme park is going to be awesome!


I want to drive the train.

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 29, 2016 9:07 AM  

You people are damn loonies.

Nah. You're wrong here, Nate. I loved the Disney movies when I was a little kid. They weren't sugarplum fairy movies, though, however much you repeat it. A movie can have frightening or disturbing images without explicitly showing it. You don't seem to get that.

I agree with you that it's ridiculous that people aren't showing them to little kids. Seriously? For all that I'm saying, they are only kids movies.

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 29, 2016 9:09 AM  

...Showing blood and gore, I mean.

Blogger Aeoli Pera April 29, 2016 9:09 AM  

doug whiddon wrote:Aeoli Pera "Netflix is heavily converged. The anime they push the hardest (Seven Deadly Sins) features romantic relationships between children and adults."

I watched that series all the way through and don't remember that. Can you provide an example?



Ban and Elaine.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 9:09 AM  

"Disney didn't sanitize it. The Brothers Grimm made it darker."


The Grimms were patriotic Germans who's only agenda was to preserve the original folk tales. They were responding to nancyboys that wanted them softened. The whole cycle started over again though when the Grimm's stories became successful.

Blogger Gaiseric April 29, 2016 9:10 AM  

malcolmthecynic wrote:The Looney Tunes cartoons and others of that ilk (Merrie Melodies, even Silly Symphonies) from the 30's and 40's were NOT for kids. Look at Tex Avery's body of work. Look at "What's Opera Doc". No kid is going to get what that's parodying.
Yes, they most definitely were for kids. Back then, it was assumed that kids were smart enough to be at least passingly familiar with opera. Either that or that giving them a taste of it via a cartoon was good for them.

Blogger Aeoli Pera April 29, 2016 9:10 AM  

I don't care how old you claim that girl is.

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 29, 2016 9:12 AM  

The Grimms were patriotic Germans who's only agenda was to preserve the original folk tales. They were responding to nancyboys that wanted them softened.

And yet, for all that, there were plenty of earlier versions of the stories not as dark as the ones the Brothers Grimm preserved.

They weren't the only versions of fairy tales in the whole world. But people act like they were.

To clarify, I like the Brothers Grimm tales a lot.

Blogger Student in Blue April 29, 2016 9:12 AM  

@malcolmthecynic
They weren't sugarplum fairy movies, though, however much you repeat it. A movie can have frightening or disturbing images without explicitly showing it. You don't seem to get that.

The point being made isn't that they were completely without these things, but that they had them cut out or reduced. Most likely for hurt fee-fees, but also from a misguided notion that "we have to shelter our children away from stuff that might make them afraid/dread/excessive violence".

@Steve
Whereas Watership Down had a claustrophic sense of creeping dread throughout the story. The violence is presented in the medium of a cartoon, but it isn't cartoony. It's visceral and realistic.

So?

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 29, 2016 9:13 AM  

Gaiseric,

Watch some of Tex Avery's stuff. They really weren't.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 9:14 AM  

"And yet, for all that, there were plenty of earlier versions of the stories not as dark as the ones the Brothers Grimm preserved."

Exactly. And that's what bothered them. They were doing responding to the nancyboys of their day precisely like I'm responding to disney now.

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 29, 2016 9:15 AM  

Student in Blue,

I don't know, man. If you don't think children's movies should be at least somewhat less overtly graphic than adult movies...I don't agree. Sure, yeah, there's a point where it's ridiculous. But I really have no problem with showing Mufasa's death without the blood and guts leaking out of his body onto the Savannah.

Blogger Aeoli Pera April 29, 2016 9:16 AM  

Aeoli Pera wrote:I don't care how old you claim that girl is.

Also Meliodas and every mature female character he interacts with. "Although he appears to be no older than a child, Meliodas is actually very powerful and is vastly older than he appears." -Wiki

Yeah see it's totally okay for prepubescent bodies to be sexualized, because see everybody's magically older than they look.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 9:16 AM  

'They weren't sugarplum fairy movies, though, however much you repeat it. A movie can have frightening or disturbing images without explicitly showing it. You don't seem to get that.'

how does a movie have an image without showing it?

This sounds like the same old thing... scared of your own damn imagination.

Blogger Gaiseric April 29, 2016 9:17 AM  

@79 Charles Perault wasn't the original either.

Anonymous Rolf April 29, 2016 9:19 AM  

What, starting a studio, too? Man, if only we had some scripts with potential, ya'know? :-)

Blogger rumpole5 April 29, 2016 9:19 AM  

I date from an era when education (though substandard) was generally in accord with classical/Christian, Athens/Jerusalem norms. I reviewed the plot of Watership Down, and it seems like a pretty standard good vs. evil plot. I don't see how it would make sense without violence and conflict for the good to overcome.
I feel genuine sympathy for those of you commentators here who were "educated" in the post 1970 system. You are largely self taught, and have had to overcome a disgusting barrage of left wing, self contradictory propaganda. I commend the relatively coherent analysis of the ilk, but I am concerned by the overarching nihilistic, burn-it-all-down tone I see so often in the comments. When you take that attitude you are participating in what you hate. Building SJW-free institutions is a positive proposal that might restore much of what has been lost. And, as I mentioned before, a list of antiSJW institutions would be helpful.

Blogger Matthew Auto and the Bosoms of Liberty April 29, 2016 9:20 AM  

My children's favorite Grimm tale is "The Juniper Tree". I taught them to sing the song in it:


My mother, she killed me

My father, he ate me

My sister, little Marlinchen

Gathered together all my bones

Tied them in a silken handkerchief

Buried them beneath a juniper tree

Kywitt, kywitt, what a beautiful bird am I!

Blogger Josh April 29, 2016 9:21 AM  

Clearly we need to create a safe space for all y'all that are triggered by cartoons.

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 29, 2016 9:21 AM  

Sure, but it wasn't "their day". It was versions hundreds of years earlier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinderella

The Grimm version was a violent version of the story, not an original version. It's easily more violent then almost every other version.

Which is fine. But it's not the original version. It's not even the one Disney adapted. They adapted the (earlier) Perrault version.

Blogger Aeoli Pera April 29, 2016 9:22 AM  

It would be easier to infiltrate converged organizations and supervert them. If we took even one decent university, the war would be won.

Blogger Aeoli Pera April 29, 2016 9:22 AM  

Aeoli Pera wrote:It would be easier to infiltrate converged organizations and supervert them. If we took even one decent university, the war would be won.

This was @97

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 9:24 AM  

"I don't know, man. If you don't think children's movies should be at least somewhat less overtly graphic than adult movies...I don't agree."

no one is saying that. What we are saying... is don't be bitching about Watership Down. It was rated PG. It wasn't rated G. And calling things like Bambi and Pinnochio traumatic.

Blogger Matthew Auto and the Bosoms of Liberty April 29, 2016 9:24 AM  

I agree with Steve and Viidad, though, in making a distinction between violence and horror. The original Watership Down cartoon was clearly aiming to disturb.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 9:25 AM  

" They adapted the (earlier) Perrault version."

which was itself abomination.

Blogger Jon M April 29, 2016 9:26 AM  

The rabbits are now ruining the best rabbit story ever, eh? Guess it's true that what they hate most is themselves.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 9:27 AM  

"Watership Down cartoon was clearly aiming to disturb."

you people are drunk. It wasn't disturbing in the slightest. There was biting and scratching. Woo haa. Better keep your kids inside where you don't have to worry about them seeing dogs fight.

And God Help You if you take them hunting or fishing.

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 29, 2016 9:29 AM  

The "Watership Down" movie was a pretty good movie. Not for kids, but you're right, nobody ever said it was.

It's not nearly as traumatic as some make it sound, though. One named character dies (who survives in the book, by the way), not counting the villain. The character who dies is one we met about fifteen minutes ago and has hardly any dialogue.

People oversell how disturbing it is. Maybe I wouldn't show it to five year olds, but ten year olds? Sure, yeah.

Blogger Gaiseric April 29, 2016 9:29 AM  

@90. I grew up watching Tex Avery Loony Toons. In the 70s, reruns of that stuff was still commonplace.

Blogger Student in Blue April 29, 2016 9:30 AM  

@malcolmthecynic
I don't know, man. If you don't think children's movies should be at least somewhat less overtly graphic than adult movies...I don't agree. Sure, yeah, there's a point where it's ridiculous. But I really have no problem with showing Mufasa's death without the blood and guts leaking out of his body onto the Savannah.

There's a difference between not showing the violence explicitly, and completely cutting implied violence from the movie just in case.

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 29, 2016 9:31 AM  

@109

Okay. They weren't for kids.

Kids could watch them, but they weren't made for kids.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 9:33 AM  

"not counting the villain."

The General wasn't actually shown killed either. Body was never found. It implied he may have killed the dog.

Which is crazy... but kinda awesome.

Blogger Gaiseric April 29, 2016 9:34 AM  

rumpole5 wrote:I date from an era when education (though substandard) was generally in accord with classical/Christian, Athens/Jerusalem norms. I reviewed the plot of Watership Down, and it seems like a pretty standard good vs. evil plot. I don't see how it would make sense without violence and conflict for the good to overcome.

I feel genuine sympathy for those of you commentators here who were "educated" in the post 1970 system. You are largely self taught, and have had to overcome a disgusting barrage of left wing, self contradictory propaganda. I commend the relatively coherent analysis of the ilk, but I am concerned by the overarching nihilistic, burn-it-all-down tone I see so often in the comments. When you take that attitude you are participating in what you hate. Building SJW-free institutions is a positive proposal that might restore much of what has been lost. And, as I mentioned before, a list of antiSJW institutions would be helpful.

Whoah, there, Tex. Don't exaggerate. Nobody wants to burn it all down. Nobody wants to start over completely from scratch with something that bears no resemblance or vestige of Western Civilization.

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 29, 2016 9:35 AM  

In the book, the dog survives, but it's hinted that Woundwort might have lived too. He eventually becomes a horror story told to children to get them to behave.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 9:36 AM  

i'm wondering how we are supposed to defeat the muslim and aztec hordes while raising kids who are to fragile for cartoon rabbit scratching and pinochio.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 29, 2016 9:37 AM  

I'm just wondering why there are so many people here jumping around like Kansas City Faggots.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 9:37 AM  

' He eventually becomes a horror story told to children to get them to behave.'

which probably would've pleased him.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 9:38 AM  

"I'm just wondering why there are so many people here jumping around like Kansas City Faggots."

because we remember something great from our childhood and the lefties are shitting on it.

Blogger Aeoli Pera April 29, 2016 9:39 AM  

Nate wrote:i'm wondering how we are supposed to defeat the muslim and aztec hordes while raising kids who are to fragile for cartoon rabbit scratching and pinochio.

That's the thing, people have this weird idea that you turn 18 and magically become an adult who can handle everything, but until then they can't be exposed to anything that they'll deal with as adults.

Blogger Aeoli Pera April 29, 2016 9:41 AM  

Pronouns got weird in there...I really need to figure out this sleep thing.

Blogger doug whiddon April 29, 2016 9:50 AM  

Aeoli Pera -= Ban and Elaine.

Elaine is over 700 years old. She's drawn petite and slim, but she's no child.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 29, 2016 9:56 AM  

I'm talking about people being traumatized by cartoons.

Blogger Aeoli Pera April 29, 2016 9:57 AM  

doug whiddon wrote:Aeoli Pera -= Ban and Elaine.

Elaine is over 700 years old. She's drawn petite and slim, but she's no child.



Strike two.

I addressed all of this already. Did you click on the picture link? That is a child's body and is meant to be understood as such, per the written character description.

You are defending pedophilia advocacy against a simple observation, so you are either stupid or evil or both.

Blogger Cecil Henry April 29, 2016 9:59 AM  

It just won;t be Watership Down.

A great novel at that.


SEe, 'diversity' just means everyone MUST think alike about diversity.

What ugliness these SJW's are.

Blogger Remo - Vile Faceless Minion #99 April 29, 2016 10:02 AM  

I loved that cartoon when I was a kid and it made me read the book which was also excellent. Now they're going to change it and make it some warmed over you go rabbit grrrl mush. Screw them.

Anonymous Stickwick April 29, 2016 10:04 AM  

Steve: I'm gonna double down on this: there's enough pain and trauma in the world. I don't think 5 year olds need to see it in their cartoons.

I'm with you, my friend. Violence is one thing, horror is another.

Nate: Cartoons are not for kids. Cartoons are a genre of their own and always have been. A subset of toons are for kids. But if you are dumb enough to just turn your kid loose with toons and assume its all appropriate... then that's on you.

I worked in a video store in high school, and the owner, who was from India and apparently did not understand Western cultural nuances, insisted on putting Ralph Bakshi's Wizards in the children's section, because it was animated. I cannot tell you how many angry parents we had coming back to the store the next day wondering why we had this weird, violent movie with Nazis in it in the kid's section.

Blogger Student in Blue April 29, 2016 10:13 AM  

@Stickwick
I'm with you, my friend. Violence is one thing, horror is another.

My contention is that this line of thinking is what helped the rise of our current r-selected in the first place -- the sheltered college "adults" who never had to deal with tragedy, horror, and consequences of violence.

What is so horrible about horror? There's a lot of handwaving about traumatizing kids, but has there been any tangible proof of such or is it just seeing designs in the clouds?

At the very least we've seen what happens when we shelter them too much.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 10:19 AM  

'What is so horrible about horror? There's a lot of handwaving about traumatizing kids, but has there been any tangible proof of such or is it just seeing designs in the clouds? '

To me the issue isn't horror or violence. Its nihilism.

I don't care about zombies and guns scaring my kids. Neither do. But I don't let them near the Walking Dead because of the nihilistic bullshit.

If there is no good vs evil... if there is no point or moral... I don't expose them to it.

Blogger Elder Son April 29, 2016 10:20 AM  

Steve: Seeing the little red headed boy have a magical adventure with his Snowman pal, then rush out the next morning (Christmas morning!) to find he'd melted into a dirty puddle of slush, and the movie ending with a child heartbroken and bereft, did nothing to help me win fights in the playground.

Just f*cking stop. Either you need therapy, or you are pulling chains.

Better yet, go find a fight club.

Thank G-d I grew up on 40-50-60's cartoons, 30-40-50's slap-stick, 40-50-60's westerns. And The Little Rascals.

TV today is just garbage. With few exceptions.

Blogger doug whiddon April 29, 2016 10:20 AM  

Aeoli Pera "you are either stupid or evil or both."

Neither, I just have a different viewpoint on a cartoon.

Anyway, its just not worth arguing about anymore

It's just anime. Japan is full of weird stuff.

Anonymous VFM #6306 April 29, 2016 10:22 AM  

"Doe power"

Holy crap these people have never handled an actual rabbit, have they?

D'oh! Power.

Anonymous BoysMom April 29, 2016 10:23 AM  

Strawberry is a BUCK, not a doe. What is this nonsense? I suppose they're not going to show how he chose to give up the beautiful, comfortable life, while all his family and friends stayed, all of them knowing what horrors supported it and making it taboo to speak of them?

Anonymous kfg April 29, 2016 10:23 AM  

@Nate: "Daddy. We are gonna kill what ever did this."

Damn fine girl ya got there.

"The riki tiki tavi cartoon from the Jungle Book for example..."

Best damn story ever told.

@Aeoli Pera: "This is coming from someone known for eating meat by the pound."

There's another way? By the parsec or something?


Blogger Student in Blue April 29, 2016 10:27 AM  

@doug whiddon
It's just anime. Japan is full of weird stuff.

Japan also has a problem with low population rates and sexualization of kids.

Considering what the SJWs like...

Blogger S1AL April 29, 2016 10:27 AM  

Nate, you've gone from arguing that children should be exposed to violence to arguing that darker = better, which is simply not true.

Blogger Student in Blue April 29, 2016 10:27 AM  

*low birth rates

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 10:31 AM  

"Nate, you've gone from arguing that children should be exposed to violence to arguing that darker = better, which is simply not true."

no. I'm not arguing that at all. In fact things like Walking Dead, which is dark just to be dark, are exactly what I keep my kids from.

Blogger Student in Blue April 29, 2016 10:32 AM  

nihilism != horror

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 10:33 AM  

'It's just anime. Japan is full of weird stuff.'

like pedophilia.

Blogger Ingot9455 April 29, 2016 10:34 AM  

Tim Burton's A Nightmare Before Christmas , being a stop motion film, had a long, arduous production lasting three years. When it was all over he was reputed to have said, "If we have been able to disturb one child, it will all have been worthwhile."

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 10:34 AM  

'nihilism != horror'

correct. Alien and Jaws for example... watch those with my kids all the time.

Anonymous kfg April 29, 2016 10:36 AM  

re Japan's birth rates:

Japan's biggest problem, since time immemorial, has been having far more people than it can feed. They didn't take to eating algae scraped off rocks because they plates piled high with venison.

In current times they were at the forefront of robotic production (Taiwan may have passed them now). Their problem of production is "solved." They have no shortage of people attending board meetings. What they lack are Japanese people doing real work, like picking up the garbage and hand buffing the parts.

They use Koreans and Filipinos for that.

Anonymous Feh April 29, 2016 10:38 AM  

Nate has gone even more Full Retard than usual today.

Anonymous Jay Will April 29, 2016 10:39 AM  

Its not enough for these Marxists to create new art that goes against what comes before they have to change all the stuff you loved, to cure it of its "racism" and "sexism". If I didn't need tv for work I'd never watch any of the garbage that comes out of it.

Anonymous VFM #6306 April 29, 2016 10:39 AM  

Steve is right about that retarded Snowman cartoon. It is The Giving Tree of cartoons. I wish the animator drowned in the vengeful puddle of snowman melt at the end.

Its problem is that it isn't violent enough.

When The Wind Blows retardary was never intended for children...or the literate. The stupidity of an elderly couple suffering radiation poisoning and death from a location receiving such a diffuse and indirect dose is scientifically implausible.

I so badly wish it had ended with the bald little septagenarians turning into brain-ravenous zombies. Stupid BBC funded crap.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 10:42 AM  

"Nate has gone even more Full Retard than usual today."

Show me on the doll where the bunny cartoon touched you.

Blogger Gaiseric April 29, 2016 10:42 AM  

doug whiddon wrote:Aeoli Pera "you are either stupid or evil or both."

Neither, I just have a different viewpoint on a cartoon.

Anyway, its just not worth arguing about anymore

It's just anime. Japan is full of weird stuff.

On top of that, the entire conclusion that Netflix is all converged is based on the fact that they broadcast this one anime (as near as I can tell) with an arguable interpretation of ephebophilia—y'know, the age at which girls were traditionally wed throughout most of human history in almost every human culture.

To that, I offer the counter-example of Longmire; a show about a traditionally ruggedly masculine cowboy/sheriff in rural Wyoming which was cancelled on A&E despite great ratings because the audience for it was too white and conservative, which Netflix picked up and added new exclusive seasons to.

I don't think Netflix is particularly converged. I certainly doubt that they've actively policed their organization for SJWs, but they hardly seem to be converged.

Anonymous VFM #6306 April 29, 2016 10:43 AM  

I recite Quint's speech about the U.S.S. Indianapolis to my kids every year at Christmas, Nate.

"The bum. The hiroshima bum..."

Blogger allyn71 April 29, 2016 10:44 AM  

Pussies ruin everything.

You faggots are as bad as women. Grow a set.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 10:46 AM  

"You faggots are as bad as women. Grow a set. "

preach preacher

Blogger Matthew Auto and the Bosoms of Liberty April 29, 2016 10:48 AM  

VFM #6306 wrote:Steve is right about that retarded Snowman cartoon. It is The Giving Tree of cartoons. I wish the animator drowned in the vengeful puddle of snowman melt at the end.



I despise The Giving Tree. I read it to my kids to make sure they hate the boy and feel contempt for the tree, and quiz them on their moral failings after each reading.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 April 29, 2016 10:53 AM  

I don't think Netflix is particularly converged. I certainly doubt that they've actively policed their organization for SJWs, but they hardly seem to be converged.

I concur. I imagine they are merely trying to appeal to as broad an audience as possible. Shows like Daredevil are really well done while within the same universe you had Jessica Jones, which was good but had a lesbian divorce triangle sub-plot and an abortion sub-plot, the latter went absolutely nowhere.

If they are promoting a particular anime or show, it is merely based on what you've been watching and what others are watching. If you're getting an anime about child-lovers showing up as a suggestion, than other people with similar interests must like it as well.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 10:53 AM  

"I recite Quint's speech about the U.S.S. Indianapolis to my kids every year at Christmas, Nate."

y'all know me... ya know how I earn a libin'

Blogger Student in Blue April 29, 2016 10:56 AM  

Nate has gone even more Full Retard than usual today.

Oh sure, he's the retarded one, while people just... don't address the points I bring up whatsoever.

@kfg
The fact that they have food now, and they still aren't reproducing above replacement rates is what's concerning. Giving jobs to a hikkikomori won't get them out of their room, and you can't give a job to a NEET if they don't want one.

It's a problem they've faced before but the causes are completely different.

Blogger Troy Lee Messer April 29, 2016 10:57 AM  

There is a new version of Scooby Doo on Netflix that is convergent. Instead of the silly Scooby Doo that I grew up with, I'm 50, it is flooded with SJW themes. Shaggy is berated for his grammar. Velma is berating Shaggy for not being alpha enough. The obvious out-in-front sexual tension of the characters. I agree with VOX, no mercy for SJW's.

Blogger S1AL April 29, 2016 10:57 AM  

If to aren't arguing that darker is better, why are you advocating for the Grimm version over the Perrault version?

Anonymous Ranger Mosby April 29, 2016 10:58 AM  

Huh? In the book, Strawberry may be a bit of a dandy, but he's definitely male (and straight; he has a beautiful wife, Nildro-hain). And his wife's death is important to the plot.

Blogger Josh April 29, 2016 10:59 AM  

with an arguable interpretation of ephebophilia—y'know, the age at which girls were traditionally wed throughout most of human history in almost every human culture

Goddammit every time someone brings up pedophilia some creepy retard starts to sperg on and on like this...

Anonymous kfg April 29, 2016 11:00 AM  

@Steve: ". . . Watership Down had a claustrophic sense of creeping dread throughout the story."

Dude, they're rabbits. Every shadow conveying a sense of creeping dread is the definition of being a prince with a thousand enemies and the world's favorite quick knosh.

If you don't like the dread of being a rabbit, get some help becoming a fox and go eat some rabbits.

Blogger Austin Ballast April 29, 2016 11:02 AM  

Certainly go an insight into Nate in this thread. We are all greatly impacted by what we like when growing up.

I suppose we should make an animated version of Friday the 13th for our children to watch, right?

I can't see the fascination with zombies and find it rather repulsive.

The Bible has plenty of stories of very strong violence, but they are not the main focus. That is not true of most of the stories being pushed here.

Great merit on thinking on what is good, pure, holy, etc.

BTW Nate, why do you like a trigger with so many springs that can break? A coworker noted that he didn't trust your trigger due to that. (Completely OT of course.)

Blogger JaimeInTexas April 29, 2016 11:04 AM  

@128. Nate
To me the issue isn't horror or violence. Its nihilism.
Amen.

I do think that Disney, over time, is the cause for so many to think animals as human. Compare early Disney to late 60's and more recent.


“If we are to use the words ‘childish’ and ‘infantile’ as terms of disapproval, we must make sure that they refer only to those characteristics of childhood which we become better and happier by outgrowing. Who in his sense would not keep, if he could, that tireless curiosity, that intensity of imagination, that facility of suspending disbelief, that unspoiled appetite, that readiness to wonder, to pity, and to admire?”

― C.S. Lewis, An Experiment in Criticism

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 11:06 AM  

"If to aren't arguing that darker is better, why are you advocating for the Grimm version over the Perrault version?"

You're conflating two different things. The Grimms didn't care if they were dark or not. They wanted the real stories.

The real stories were violent.

They were not dark.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 11:07 AM  

"The Bible has plenty of stories of very strong violence, but they are not the main focus. That is not true of most of the stories being pushed here."

Violence was not the main theme of any of the fairy tales. Nor was violence the main point of Watership Down. Or Jungle Book.

So what exactly are you talking about?

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 11:08 AM  

"BTW Nate, why do you like a trigger with so many springs that can break? A coworker noted that he didn't trust your trigger due to that. (Completely OT of course.)"

I will need you to be more specific.

What trigger are you talking about?

Anonymous kfg April 29, 2016 11:08 AM  

"I suppose we should make an animated version of Friday the 13th for our children to watch, right?"

Watership Down was based on the behaviour of millions of real people and millions of real rabbits.

It is fantasy only in the sense that it blends these two in a fictional story and it is horror only in the sense that the real world is a horror.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 11:09 AM  

"It is fantasy only in the sense that it blends these two in a fictional story and it is horror only in the sense that the real world is a horror."

You cannot have a hero without a horror for the hero to face.

Blogger CM April 29, 2016 11:11 AM  

hold hold hold on. There is a difference between showing some blood and a clear cut good vs evil.

I didn't quote all of it, but this comment...

To a child (especially our modern day versions) are not likely to understand the complexities that distinguish good bunny from bad bunny. It is the story that delineates them.

The evil witch in Wizard of Oz is deformed and green while Glenda has pretty curls and a frilly pink dress.

Maleficent vs Philip

Cruella vs Pongo & Company

Does that make the story not worth telling to children? No. Sometimes, evil can look like those around us... Classic Disney and Marvel present evil clearly. It says evil exists and it is bad. WD and more complex movies require looking at something more than appearances to say who is evil or not.

If you don't understand the actions and words on screen, all you see is rabbits killing eachother for no reason. Why are the cute bunnies doing that??? WHY???

As to on screen violence, I have a huge issue with divorcing actions from consequences ESPECIALLY with kids. If a guy is being shot in the crotch, i don't want him to simply bend over with a goofy look on his face. I'm convinced that half the accidents involving kids and firearms is children NOT seeing semi-realistic consequences to "goofy" violence. We don't all live on farms or go hunting or find dead animals in our yards. Good stories can serve a purpose when the reality around us fails to teach us important lessons.

Anonymous Stickwick April 29, 2016 11:11 AM  

Student in Blue: My contention is that this line of thinking is what helped the rise of our current r-selected in the first place -- the sheltered college "adults" who never had to deal with tragedy, horror, and consequences of violence.

It's not all or nothing. Tragedy, horror, and violence are real things that children will eventually have to come to terms with. But it ought to be in context and at an age when a child is able to process it. Otherwise it's just pointless trauma.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 11:12 AM  

"To a child (especially our modern day versions) are not likely to understand the complexities that distinguish good bunny from bad bunny. It is the story that delineates them."

Bullshit! For fucks sake all the bad bunnies are grey!

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 11:13 AM  

". But it ought to be in context and at an age when a child is able to process it. Otherwise it's just pointless trauma."

I agree. I'm not saying you should show Watership Down to your 2 year old daughter.

But by 6 or 8 she should get it. No big deal.

Blogger S1AL April 29, 2016 11:14 AM  

"You're conflating two different things. The Grimms didn't care if they were dark or not. They wanted the real stories."

And yet, the Perrault version is far older. Given the nature of the stories, and the character of the German people, I'd argue that the Grimm version is pretty clearly a more violent retelling. Additionally, that version isn't just violent - it's horrific and sadistic in nature (again, not surprising given German storytelling).

So why is that version better?

Anonymous Camilla Cameo April 29, 2016 11:14 AM  

I saw Watership Down when I was four years old. I was disturbed and terrified, and I loved it, judge that to be a positive experience, and think extremely highly of the movie.

If I am ever blessed with children--which will require being blessed with a husband first--the only things I will categorically forbid them to watch because of young age are things with mentions of sexual stuff and moral complexity, not violence or horror. (Things like pornographic sexual content, nihilism and SJW preaching will be forbidden not because of age but absolutely.)

Blogger Nick S April 29, 2016 11:15 AM  

Netflix isn't completely useless. I just watched Patterns of Evidence: The Exodus last night and learned some stuff.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 11:16 AM  

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/watershipdown/images/6/6a/GeneralWoundwort.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20101013232145

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=hazel+watership+down&view=detailv2&&id=286CA7932A45ADD38A603F3D51913CB8902F6456&selectedIndex=0&ccid=%2fVJ7n4f0&simid=608002688157682408&thid=OIP.Mfd527b9f87f45a150c275ba532ce7721H0&ajaxhist=0

WHICH ONE IS THE BAD GUY?

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 11:17 AM  

"Additionally, that version isn't just violent - it's horrific and sadistic in nature (again, not surprising given German storytelling).

So why is that version better?"

Because the first is a puritan watering down of the story... and the second is the actual german folkstory.

They were not violent for no reason.

The grimms wanted the authentic stories preserved. if they hadn't done it.. we would have no idea what they actually were.

Blogger Akulkis April 29, 2016 11:19 AM  

@81

"I want to drive the train."

I don't think we're going to be driving that train tonight.

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 29, 2016 11:22 AM  

Because the first is a puritan watering down of the story... and the second is the actual german folkstory.

No, it is one version of the story. There are a ton from many different places. The Grimm version is by far the most violent...really the only violent one.
The Perrault version was typical with all former Cinderella legends.

The Brothers Grimm found an old German version of the tale, but it wasn't the only version or earliest version. Perhaps it was the original GERMAN folktale, but it was by no means the original Cinderella tale.

Anonymous kfg April 29, 2016 11:23 AM  

@171:

Perrault wrote Querelle des Anciens et des Modernes, taking the side of the Modernes. He authored his fairy tales for moderns.

The Grimms collected les Anciens.

Blogger Student in Blue April 29, 2016 11:24 AM  

@Stickwick
It's not all or nothing. Tragedy, horror, and violence are real things that children will eventually have to come to terms with.

Factually incorrect, as you can look at SJWs and see otherwise.

But it ought to be in context and at an age when a child is able to process it. Otherwise it's just pointless trauma.

Again, "What is so horrible about horror? There's a lot of handwaving about traumatizing kids, but has there been any tangible proof of such or is it just seeing designs in the clouds?

At the very least we've seen what happens when we shelter them too much."

Blogger S1AL April 29, 2016 11:24 AM  

"The grimms wanted the authentic stories preserved. if they hadn't done it.. we would have no idea what they actually were."

No, they wrote down a version. It's not even close to the original. It's simply the most violent and horrific.

So why is it better?

Blogger CM April 29, 2016 11:25 AM  

I do think that Disney, over time, is the cause for so many to think animals as human. Compare early Disney to late 60's and more recent.

C.S. Lewis did anthropomorphising to. While it may have contributed, urbanization and the only human-animal interactions being with pets had a large impact, to... i would argue a bigger impact.

What movie is it where the dad is getting ready to kill a pet turkey for thanksgiving dinner and the kids run off with it and hide it? Isn't that normal behavior for a child that they outgrow as they build the connection between animal and food? You rural types can better answer that. The only reason I'm semi normal is because I read Laura Ingalls Wilder as a kid.

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 29, 2016 11:25 AM  

"Cinderella" is a fine movie for children. I'm not sure what the problem with it is supposed to be.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 11:26 AM  

'No, they wrote down a version. It's not even close to the original. It's simply the most violent and horrific.'

no. they were aiming to find and perserve the authentic version of the stories.

its better because its the closest to the original. Older does not mean more authentic. Like I said before... they were out to preserve them because unauthentic versions were circulating.

Blogger Akulkis April 29, 2016 11:27 AM  

"It would be easier to infiltrate converged organizations and supervert them. If we took even one decent university, the war would be won."

Purdue University is still NOT SJW-converged. Mitch Daniels is the current Pres, and about 2 years ago, he, with the Student Senate, crafted a resolution that Purdue will NEVER allow censorship of ideas, and that anyone attending Purdue who thinks they need to be protected from ideas which offend them are NOT READY to be students at any institution of higher learning.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 11:27 AM  

"Cinderella" is a fine movie for children. I'm not sure what the problem with it is supposed to be."

There isn't a problem with it. We called it watered down and sanitized... and you assumed that we meant "bad".

Blogger Aeoli Pera April 29, 2016 11:28 AM  

doug whiddon wrote:Aeoli Pera "you are either stupid or evil or both."

Neither, I just have a different viewpoint on a cartoon.


It's, like, all relative man. Art is just...you know? You can't say things are, like...you just have this opinion...

Look, if you can't see a picture of a man kissing a child and say "that's pedophilia", then it doesn't matter to me anymore whether you're evil or stupid, God will sort it out.

Gaiseric wrote:
On top of that, the entire conclusion that Netflix is all converged is based on the fact that they broadcast this one anime (as near as I can tell)...


That's not the only reason. I give you permission to look into it.

swiftfoxmark2 wrote:If they are promoting a particular anime or show, it is merely based on what you've been watching and what others are watching. If you're getting an anime about child-lovers showing up as a suggestion, than other people with similar interests must like it as well.

You're wrong, they're pushing that show as hard as Daredevil.

Blogger Gaiseric April 29, 2016 11:29 AM  

Josh wrote:Goddammit every time someone brings up pedophilia some creepy retard starts to sperg on and on like this...
Don't project.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 11:29 AM  

You people have assumed that because we are fine with the violence in Watership Down that we therefore think everything should be violent... or more violent.

That's not the case. Like I said.. Watership Down came with a PG rating. Everyone knew what they were getting into when they saw it.

Blogger CM April 29, 2016 11:33 AM  

But it ought to be in context and at an age when a child is able to process it. Otherwise it's just pointless trauma."

I agree. I'm not saying you should show Watership Down to your 2 year old daughter.


That's what I was trying to say.

My current point of reference is predominantly a 4 year old child. I wouldn't watch this with her. I could watch it with my 7yo.

I have a hard time figuring out what is appropriate for them. On one hand, I'm rushing head long into Ben Hur and Jurassic Park. I really want to watch The Patriot with him. On the other, I'm stuck with The Lion King and Flipper...

OpenID malcolmthecynic April 29, 2016 11:33 AM  

There isn't a problem with it. We called it watered down and sanitized... and you assumed that we meant "bad".

Fair enough. I still disagree that "Cinderella" in particular is watered down and sanitized. Once again, the Brothers Grimm collected one version of the tale, the oldest German one they could find. Out of every culture with a version of Cinderella, it is the most violent by miles.

Cinderella is not defined by the German version.

Blogger S1AL April 29, 2016 11:33 AM  

"its better because its the closest to the original. Older does not mean more authentic. Like I said before... they were out to preserve them because unauthentic versions were circulating."

No, it's the German version. No other version, ranging from Chinese to Italian to British, contains anywhere near that level of violence. If you want to argue that they preserved German folklore, by all means... but it's not the original.

Blogger Gaiseric April 29, 2016 11:33 AM  

Troy Lee Messer wrote:There is a new version of Scooby Doo on Netflix that is convergent. Instead of the silly Scooby Doo that I grew up with, I'm 50, it is flooded with SJW themes. Shaggy is berated for his grammar. Velma is berating Shaggy for not being alpha enough. The obvious out-in-front sexual tension of the characters. I agree with VOX, no mercy for SJW's.
Again; Netflix broadcasts all kinds of stuff. If you look at what the produce, and if you look at stuff that they are unwilling to not broadcast for politically correct reasons, then the argument that Netflix is "heavily converged" is unconvincing.

Blogger Akulkis April 29, 2016 11:33 AM  

@126

Wizards is definitely the most awesome cartoon ever. Especially the two-old-priests scene.

Blogger Akulkis April 29, 2016 11:35 AM  

@130

"Neither, I just have a different viewpoint on a cartoon."

Yes... a viewpoint which is either stupid, evil, or both.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2016 11:37 AM  

" If you want to argue that they preserved German folklore, by all means... but it's not the original."

what exactly do you think I mean when I said they were "german patriots"?

They were out to preserve german folklore.

Blogger bob k. mando April 29, 2016 11:38 AM  

34. Nate April 29, 2016 7:41 AM
Steve.
That's because obviously you were a huge pussy. No doubt raised in a city by people striving to turn you into a huge pussy.



it'd be easier to just say that he's a poofter Englishman, Nate. that pretty much says it all.

*whacks Steve in ribs*

Blogger JaimeInTexas April 29, 2016 11:39 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Sam Lively April 29, 2016 11:39 AM  

And I actually got a little excited that they were making a WSD miniseries.

If the SJWs are going to fempower the classics, I wonder if we can do the reverse on SJW favorites someday. Star Trek would be an obvious candidate.

Blogger Student in Blue April 29, 2016 11:40 AM  

It's hard to believe he's trans-American when his poofterness shows through.

Blogger JaimeInTexas April 29, 2016 11:40 AM  

@181. CM April 29, 2016 11:25 AM

The issue is not anthropomorphising, it is extending characteristics being represented that bear no connection, no analogy, with real life.

"Isn't that normal behavior for a child that they outgrow as they build the connection between animal and food?"

It is absolutely a believable account because it does reflect life.

My sister, as an adult, had a pet rabbit she named Tanzy. She would get really pissed at me because I would call her rabbit Fricassee.

One of those moments when a child is instructed. There are pets, with which a bond is made, but humans they are not. Then, there are not pets, which the purpose is for us to eat and live. Humbling, as Nate pointed out, when a creature of God dies that we may live.

And, still, life allows for the funny side of that living, as when your kids, using two killed deer as puppets before being dressed.

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