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Sunday, April 24, 2016

Anacyclosis and the problem of productivity

Economics, free trade, the minimum wage, technological advancement, immigration, and the Singularity are all pointing towards the same problem, as Fred Reed notes:
People of IQ 130 and up tend to assume unconsciously–important word: “unconsciously”–that you can do anything just by doing it. If they wanted to learn Sanskrit, they would get a textbook and go for it. It would take time and effort but the outcome would never be in doubt. Yes, of course they understand that some people are smarter than others, but they often seem not to grasp how much smarter, or what the consequences are. A large part of the population can’t learn-much of anything. Not won’t. Can’t. Displaced auto workers cannot be retrained as IT professionals.

Few of the very bright have have ever had to make the unhappy calculation: Forty times a low minimum wage minus bus fare to work, rent, food, medical care, and cable. They have never had to choose between a winter coat and cable, their only entertainment. They don’t really know that many people do. Out of sight, out of mind.

Cognitive stratification has political consequences. It leads liberals to think that their client groups can go to college. It leads conservatives to think that with hard work and determination…..

It ain’t so. An economic system that works reasonably well when there are lots of simple jobs doesn’t when there aren’t. In particular, the large number of people at IQ 90 and below will increasingly be simply unnecessary. If you are, say, a decent, honest young woman of IQ 85, you probably read poorly, learn slowly and only simple things,. Being promoted, or even hired, requires abilities that you do not have. This, plus high (and federally concealed) unemployment allows employers to pay you barely enough to stay alive. Here is the wondrous working of the market.
The Polybian system of anacyclosis proceeds in the following order:
1. Monarchy, 2. Kingship, 3. Tyranny, 4. Aristocracy, 5. Oligarchy, 6. Democracy, and 7. Ochlocracy.

Some would say that we are living under a democracy, but this is observably not true. Rather, it appears we are somewhere between (4) and (5), even though the Aristocracy is not readily apparent. In reality, the theory probably needs to be updated, but regardless, the observable fact is that the transnational cognitive elite has no regard for the common masses, and more importantly, no longer requires them in order to maintain its standard of living. The logical conclusion is that the increased irrelevance of the competent white middle and working classes is why the former is entirely willing to replace them with an even more irrelevant, and less intelligent population who can be much more easily subdued and eliminated in time.

That sounds diabolical, but logic suggests that it is the purpose and the intended consequence of Cultural Marxism. It seems woefully short-sighted to me, but if one thinks only in terms of one's own lifetime, I suppose it might be of some appeal.

The feudalism of the Middle Ages required peasants for agriculture. But the technofeudalism of the future doesn't appear likely to require peasants for anything. So what will be done with them? What will be done with us? The long and bloody history of Man does not suggest an optimistic answer.

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178 Comments:

Anonymous Wyrd April 24, 2016 7:14 AM  

...even though the Aristocracy is not readily apparent.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/04/chelsea-clinton-now-scalias-gone/

This looks pretty aristocratic to me.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 24, 2016 7:31 AM  

Cognitive stratification has political consequences. It leads liberals to think that their client groups can go to college.

Ah but they CAN go to college if you create an academic track for functional illiterates.

Which they have done.

All of all the things that plague our nation, the cult of the college degree is perhaps the worst.

It takes people who could have been productive workers and turns them into drones.

Blogger JACIII April 24, 2016 7:36 AM  

"but if one thinks only in terms of one's own lifetime"

It is notable that the elite have long personal time preferences, but short societal time preferences. Solipsism or ignorance. You pick.

Anyway it's about time someone put a stop to those pesky peasant uprisings.

Blogger VFM #7634 April 24, 2016 7:37 AM  

This looks pretty aristocratic to me.

True, although she really is looking more and more like Webster Hubbell lately.

Anonymous Determinator April 24, 2016 7:39 AM  

The elite have no use for the middle class. The middle class has no use for the elite.

DOTR when?

Anonymous That Would Be Telling April 24, 2016 7:40 AM  

Is Chelsea's child likely to even reach the level of "footnote in history" that's her likely fate?

As our host notes, the model requires updating.

OpenID aew51183 April 24, 2016 7:44 AM  

"DOTR when?"

When a combination of the following 2 factors occurs:

1 - Middle class are dispossessed enough to not have any more to lose
2 - Non-violent recourse for reparation are exhausted.

If Trump does not do the job, expect a sharp increase in stand-alone and small group actions that begin to snowball until the USA develops its own version of FARC.

Blogger VFM #7634 April 24, 2016 7:51 AM  

If Trump does not do the job, expect a sharp increase in stand-alone and small group actions that begin to snowball until the USA develops its own version of FARC.

It'll be interesting to see what'll happen when SCOTUS goes full leftoid under Hillary and attempts to make draconian gun control the law of the land.

OpenID paworldandtimes April 24, 2016 7:52 AM  

True, although she really is looking more and more like Webster Hubbell lately.

Indeed. It's quasi-acknowledged that Bill Clinton is infertile as a result of a childhood illness.

It [the diabolical culling] seems woefully short-sighted to me

I'm guessing it's short-sighted because the US-based ruling elites think they are omnipotent when they are not. They are enjoying a moment of unipolar global order.

PA

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 24, 2016 7:53 AM  

Of course Drones is what the new aristocracy needs to survive.

This part is part is clever.

You see the College Educated Drone (or CED) could never actually be part of the Aristocracy. They don't have talent or the family connections.

BUT the CEDs can identify with them.

The lower middle class always identifies with the upper aristocracy.

Lower middle caste, Kevo-Grod instantly surmised. Parents spent most of their lives barely above the poverty line. Knew what wines to drink but could barely afford Thunderwarg. Knew what fashions to follow but had to shop at the thrift stores in desperate unironic earnestness. Knew they were better than the orc plumber’s family down the lane but couldn’t prove it with their wallets. Lives spent frantically trying to cling to a lifestyle as good their parents and every year sliding a little bit further down the greasy pole. Terrified of one day slipping into the Orc classes.

We now have entire generation invested in being something they can't be. They have drastically over-invested themselves in identifying with a class they can never be a part of.

But that's okay they have been carefully trained to deny objective reality as well.

Although I can't help but wonder, what will they do on the day that the objective reality that they are ordered to deny, is the fact that they are starving?

Anonymous Rhys April 24, 2016 7:54 AM  

Has there ever been any dystopian sci fi written about the world of the elites slowly collapsing as stuff breaks down and no one is able to fix it?

This also swings both ways. Dumb people cannot understand how much smarter others are either. The ditz in HR cannot understand why Pajeet with his cereal box 'engineering' degree cannot do the same as John with his first world engineering degree.

@2 The infatuation with college degrees actually describes one of the stages of empire collapse as described by Glubb.

@4 The real question is not Chelsea's daddy but whether Clinton is her mother. Fake pregnancy? artificial insemnation?


OT, has anyone else noticed blogger has gone to shit in the last few months. It seems a larger trend that began with hotmail many years ago, but accelerated in the last two years - increased flashiness but functionality worse than somethihg from the days of geocities. I wonder if this reflects the growing diversity in silicon valley.

Blogger VFM #7634 April 24, 2016 7:59 AM  

I should also point out that trying to run society on computers and robots will utterly fail. Machines can only "think" so far as they're programmed, and there'll constantly be a need for humans to babysit the da-ned things. The workforce will be smaller, but it won't go away entirely.

The lower middle class always identifies with the upper aristocracy.

I think that's a common human inclination. But in a healthy society, including European culture until the past century or so, the aristocracy reciprocated by seeing their countrymen as their people and to look out for them. Trump may have this attitude, but it is otherwise extremely rare these days.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling April 24, 2016 8:03 AM  

@8 VFM #7634:

It'll be interesting to see what'll happen when SCOTUS goes full leftoid under Hillary and attempts to make draconian gun control the law of the land.

Outside of Illinois (and D.C. just a little), the relevant Supreme Court decisions have resulted in no changes to speak of, assuming as looks likely that the pro-CCW decision in California gets reversed by the appeals court, and inevitably denied cert by the Supreme Court as they've done with all other CCW cases appealed to them.

OK, they just decided that Massachusetts can't ban stun guns, but the pickings are otherwise slim to non-existent. So if their hand, which has not been restraining the gun controllers outside of Illinois (and that's debatable, since the pro-CCW decision wasn't appealed to them), now encourages gun control even further, what's going to really change?

Blogger Salt April 24, 2016 8:06 AM  

Historically, were peasants highly armed? I think Chelsea's hubris is quite telling.

Blogger Josh April 24, 2016 8:06 AM  

Paging Charles Murray

Blogger Shimshon April 24, 2016 8:07 AM  

Someone should teach Fred the term midwit.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 24, 2016 8:07 AM  

Has there ever been any dystopian sci fi written about the world of the elites slowly collapsing as stuff breaks down and no one is able to fix it?

There was a movie about that.

Idiocrasy.

It was supposed to be a satire but it's turned into a documentary.

Anonymous RedJack April 24, 2016 8:15 AM  

I have had similar conversations with corporate. They are all about cutting pensions, without realizing the average Joe and Jane on the floor is not capable of balancing a checkbook, let alone making rational decisions on what to invest in.

The crews have many capable and good people on them, but they will never be engineers (most of them). That doesn't make them evil or human waste, but that does mean that society needs to figure out what to do with them.

What worries me is that the average factory worker is probably above the IQ cut off mentioned here. A guy with a 85 IQ will not be able to run any of my machines. He will get himself hurt. There is whole neighborhoods that are never going to be able to find a job. Not because they won't work but because the jobs that are coming require skills that they are unable to possess.

As things progress, that will be 90% or more of humanity. What will we do with those people? History suggests someone will try a mass kill of them, or that a new barbarian horde will arise to smash the machines. Either way, we are at the end of the diamond age.

Anonymous Determinator April 24, 2016 8:20 AM  

@ Rhys A Desert Called Peace by Tom Kratman touches on it. It's important to, but not the focus of the story.

Anonymous Toastrider April 24, 2016 8:23 AM  

@11: Several. You could argue that H.G. Wells's 'The Time Machine' was a forerunner, of course.

The ones that jump to mind (mostly due to recent reading) are Kratman's Carrera series as well as Nuttall's Empire's Corps series.

@12: When discussions about A.I. come up, I am always reminded of the header quote from TVTropes's entry on 'Artificial Stupidity'. Silicon intelligence might be in the future, but we ain't there yet.

Anonymous JB April 24, 2016 8:25 AM  

Soylent green

Anonymous JB April 24, 2016 8:26 AM  

@Rhys: Check out Barjavel's "Ashes, Ashes."

You'll love it.

Blogger James Dixon April 24, 2016 8:27 AM  

> ...the transnational cognitive elite has no regard for the common masses, and more importantly, no longer requires them in order to maintain its standard of living.

It's reaching (if it hasn't already reached) the point where anything that requires an up to 110 IQ in most jobs can be automated. They still need servants to wash their clothes, clean the house, take care of the kids, do the yard work, etc, at least for now. The higher IQ technical repair jobs are probably still safe for another generation or so, but that's what H1B visas are for.

> The feudalism of the Middle Ages required peasants for agriculture. But the technofeudalism of the future doesn't appear likely to require peasants for anything.

So they think. Farming can be automated, but doing so currently requires mono-cultural crops. And we know what happens to mono-cultures when a good plague hits.

We already have essentially untreatable pneumonia. Other diseases are following the same path. It's only a matter of time till nature re-asserts her dominance.

> It'll be interesting to see what'll happen when SCOTUS goes full leftoid under Hillary and attempts to make draconian gun control the law of the land.

A lot of dead cops amongst those stupid enough to try to enforce the law. But they won't believe that until it happens.

Blogger Student in Blue April 24, 2016 8:27 AM  

This may be a complete tangent, so forgive me if it is.

People of IQ 130 and up tend to assume unconsciously–important word: “unconsciously”–that you can do anything just by doing it. If they wanted to learn Sanskrit, they would get a textbook and go for it. It would take time and effort but the outcome would never be in doubt. Yes, of course they understand that some people are smarter than others, but they often seem not to grasp how much smarter, or what the consequences are. A large part of the population can’t learn-much of anything. Not won’t. Can’t. Displaced auto workers cannot be retrained as IT professionals.

Is this true? In my experience it's more of a "won't" rather than a can't, and in the example of the auto worker being retrained as an IT professional, it's not an issue of whether or not they can memorize facts or even eventually put them together, but whether they can learn them fast enough to keep up with the quickly expanding knowledge base.

The question changes from being unable to learn at all, to learning so slowly it's pointless to try. Something like every person who has a whole physical body can learn how to play football... eventually, after enough time has been spent doing so... not everyone will be good enough/quick enough of a learner to compete, whether it's at the junior high school level, or at the NFL level.

So yeah, someone can learn how to do something but they won't be amazing at it by any means, nor will they necessarily become better off if they were forced to learn it.

Please forgive if my thoughts were a bit disjointed in presenting this.

Blogger Josh April 24, 2016 8:29 AM  

Something like every person who has a whole physical body can learn how to play football... eventually, after enough time has been spent doing so... not everyone will be good enough/quick enough of a learner to compete, whether it's at the junior high school level, or at the NFL level.

A better analogy would be telling someone who is four feet tall that if they just work hard enough they will eventually be able to dunk a basketball.

Blogger bob k. mando April 24, 2016 8:33 AM  

Fred Reed discovers an old problem ...

http://www.amazon.com/Stupidity-Problem-Other-Harassments/dp/B000P9SPEO/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1461501169&sr=1-1&keywords=the+stupidity+problem

Blogger LP9 Forever Solidified in Gold! Rin Integra S.I.G. April 24, 2016 8:44 AM  

Profoundly helpful post. Ran it by dad and I or we have some questions that others could answer if they'd be so gracious as I am often wrong alot.

Is it intelligent or higher thinking to accept in some, perhaps, odd, defeatist manner, the middle class is trashed and wrecked without recovery?

Is it correct to believe or take away via news/current times that we are wanted to be stupid, and stupider?

Is it appropriate or logical to review econ, banking and trends taking away a vibe of the system is set up against the intelligent as they pose a threat to 'elites' even though elites wont suffer a bit?

EDUdebtFraud is a grand hoax and joke upon the youth, for which financial rape reigns. Does it appear that genx doesn't seem to have the population numbers to push back in going beyond mere survival; food, water, shelter and a bed - forget the ihorridApple, toys and status symbols.

In WV I am reviewing an issue of mil'lens whom dont want to work, dont care about college and just sign up for welfare/freebies and love dey comcast, inking and free nuvarings as some remain anti baby or anti family.

Anonymous rat64 April 24, 2016 8:45 AM  

"Your highness, the peasants are revolting."
"You said it. They stink on ice!"

The scarcity facing the economic systems is not material/energy/food,
but employment
as automation become efficient enough to eliminate employment,
less people will be employable.
Employment will require greater levels of skills/training.
Current industrialized society has a capacity to support a much greater number of people than it needs to produce the basic needs (BASIC food/shelter)for same.
So
large population of unnecessary people.
people with time on their hands are as likely to be destructive as constructive.
The society doesn't need their product.
Their value becomes null.
Yet they will want a level of support beyond any return on investment.

Responsible people might constrain population growth,
And end up out bread by the unresponsible groups.

The center will not hold.

Anonymous Fran April 24, 2016 8:47 AM  

Who's going to fight all the wars for them?

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler April 24, 2016 8:49 AM  

Plato saw democracy as non-government for it doesn't really exist. In Athens, "democracy" existed under the Pericles, an aristocrat, who controlled the masses by his personality.

The Natural Law is that All things exist either in Authority or in Subjection. Democracy tells that all things are equal which obviously seeks to break the natural law that things are bifurcated.

Example, both the Bolshevist party in the USSR and the Fascist party in Germany and Italy were all democrats--i.e. existing on the Will of the People. They all hated hierarchy. Yet, the party leaders were pseudo-monarchs, party functionaries became the pseudo-aristocracy thus recreating a hierarchical structure!

There is always a ruling elite. Aristocracy is the Warrior class. There is no warrior class in america. The ruling elite of America are the Jews with the minorities serving as storm-troopers. We live in an Ochlocracy ruled by the oligarchy of Jewish power/money/cultural interests, ZOG. Democracy never truly exists. It doesn't exist in nature except in the few spider colonies.

Anonymous kfg April 24, 2016 8:49 AM  

"Historically, were peasants highly armed?"

You can't work the land without pitchforks and sythes.

Blogger dienw April 24, 2016 8:51 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger bob k. mando April 24, 2016 8:56 AM  

according to the Trifecta guys, PJtv has shutting down. wonder how much longer the main PJMedia site will last?

http://www.pjtv.com/

Bill Whittle seems to be the only one of them who hasn't fully converged on the cuckistocracy.

https://www.billwhittle.com/trifecta/what-cruz-sanders-clinton-or-trump-presidency-would-look

Anonymous Godfrey April 24, 2016 8:56 AM  

The wealthy global elites have an agenda. You - the masses - are the agenda.

Part of the agenda is outlined in the "Jaffe Memo".

Anonymous ZH April 24, 2016 9:03 AM  

Nah, Merica is #3.

Wheeler rises.

Blogger veinarmor April 24, 2016 9:04 AM  

The Polybian system of anacyclosis proceeds in the following order:
1. Monarchy, 2. Kingship, 3. Tyranny, 4. Aristocracy, 5. Oligarchy, 6. Democracy, and 7. Ochlocracy.
You forgot #7. Kikeocracy A sub-species of Hominidae comprising less than 1% of total world population controlling 90% of all fiat wealth production, media communications, and manipulative influence in the shaping of mores and folkways of diverse cultures. A tribe with 2000 years of documented behavior mired in the practice of usury, slavery, pimpery and perversity. Kikeocracy, that's where we're at today. God help us.

Anonymous Be Not Afraid April 24, 2016 9:05 AM  

>Cognitive stratification has political consequences.

Most of my life has been spent around "normal" people, lower middle class folks. I've come to believe that the high-IQ crowd, the 130+ folks, really have no idea what people of near- (or below-) average IQs are like. Assortative mating and in-grouping among the high-IQ aristocracy/oligarchy bunch has made it so they never need to interact socially with anybody but people like themselves.

To the high-IQ crowd, we might as well be two different species. It would be a kind of tribalism, I suppose. Vox suggests it will lead to bloodshed, like so much of tribalism has.

The one curiosity is that there's been no "sweep" by the Ivy-educated elite of the rest of the population to extract high-IQ members before the culling begins. Perhaps they believe their numbers are great enough that they can write the rest off as "collateral damage."

OpenID aew51183 April 24, 2016 9:06 AM  

@30

"Aristocracy is the Warrior class. There is no warrior class in america"

This is not true. There are career military families. They receive pensions and generous government perks which allow them an otherwise unattainable lifestyle. Those with higher IQ's often leverage this into generational wealth, continually boosted by military benefits earned by successive generations, insulating them from the costs of healthcare, education, retirement, and down payments for property their civilian counterparts must overcome.

Even those who don't maintain generational or career military presence use the military as a springboard up the socioeconomic ladder.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd April 24, 2016 9:06 AM  

@24 SIB: They won't, because they can't. For some on the edge of smart enough, your "can't learn fast enough" scenario might hold true, but for those who are a little dumber, they can't. They may not even understand what you are asking them to learn.

Anonymous Godfrey April 24, 2016 9:06 AM  

Hayek was right. Socialism is the path to serfdom not utopia. The Left has been compromised since Bismarck. They're being led "skipping and giggling to the gas chamber".

The wealthy global elites are committing cultural genocide and they're just warming up.

Blogger Student in Blue April 24, 2016 9:11 AM  

@Josh
A better analogy would be telling someone who is four feet tall that if they just work hard enough they will eventually be able to dunk a basketball.

True enough, and while a number of IT jobs are simply recitation of facts/follow the manual (which don't require IQ), there's a large number of jobs that require problem-solving and interconnection of abstract to the concrete. Understanding is vital.

Then again, you can still break up a lot of problem solving into concrete tasks as well, say the OSI layer model...

Anonymous Sensei April 24, 2016 9:11 AM  

@24

"People of IQ 130 and up tend to assume unconsciously–important word: “unconsciously”–that you can do anything just by doing it. If they wanted to learn Sanskrit, they would get a textbook and go for it. It would take time and effort but the outcome would never be in doubt. Yes, of course they understand that some people are smarter than others, but they often seem not to grasp how much smarter, or what the consequences are. A large part of the population can’t learn-much of anything. Not won’t. Can’t."

Is this true? In my experience it's more of a "won't" rather than a can't -Student in Blue

Like human sin nature, it's the same thing. Prior to regeneration, you can't stop sinning because you won't ever stop or desire to stop.

I wonder how much of intelligence is simply mental competitiveness/motivation? "That looks like a fun challenge, I'm going to figure out how to do it" The strongest person in the world can't pick up a golf ball if they are truly convinced it's impossible and lack the motivation to prove otherwise to themselves. Most people with plenty of mental capacity to grasp at least medium level math won't get past "math is hard... math is hard... math is hard..." it's not that they truly lack the mental resources, but won't becomes can't for them because it's a matter of the will. (In contrast to those truly lacking in mental resources, but no one blames them)

Anonymous Godfrey April 24, 2016 9:17 AM  

The elites use the lower IQ masses to destroy their intellectual competition within the middleclass. Are they intellectually superior? Or is it simply a matter of being born into crony wealth and power with the means to manipulate the masses?

Anonymous Culture Heretic April 24, 2016 9:19 AM  

Perhaps these might give a wider view:

Futurism: The Future Of Robotics

Futurism: The Age Of Automation

Blogger dienw April 24, 2016 9:24 AM  

Displaced auto workers cannot be retrained as IT professionals.

IT is for the Limbaugh's repeated statements that working class people can be easily trained for higher IQ jobs that I began to despise him: this cannot be a conservative position because it defies common sense.

Anonymous Godfrey April 24, 2016 9:25 AM  

You're in a class war. It's time for the middleclass to acknowledge it. It's time for class consciousness.

The wealthy global elites use a rigged system to hold you down. The system is simple. The low IQ masses hold onto your ankles and the wealthy elites have a foot on your face as you attempt to climb up the economic ladder. And if you climb up despite? Well then... they'll attempt to co-op you. And if that doesn't work. They'll attempt to destroy you.

Blogger James Dixon April 24, 2016 9:30 AM  

> In my experience it's more of a "won't" rather than a can't,

How much experience do you actually have with sub-90 IQ individuals?

Blogger dienw April 24, 2016 9:33 AM  

@12.VFM #7634

I should also point out that trying to run society on computers and robots will utterly fail.

Recall that Microsoft killed its AI named Tay when it became right wing as it became more familiar with the real world.

Here is an interesting take on that, Note how Lame Cherry mentions a second AI named Baby.

Anonymous kfg April 24, 2016 9:44 AM  

"Then again, you can still break up a lot of problem solving into concrete tasks . . ."

When working on the Manhattan Project Feynman didn't have access to an electronic computer, so he raided the secretarial schools, equipped them all with mechanical calculators and arranged them in a matrix simulating a complex logic circuit.

But nowadays he would have just gone to Walmart and bought a tablet/phone for 5 bucks of silver coin.

"In my experience it's more of a "won't" rather than a can't . . ."

Q.E.D.

Anonymous Mr. Rational April 24, 2016 9:46 AM  

Student in Blue wrote:you can still break up a lot of problem solving into concrete tasks as well, say the OSI layer model...
This is the script-driven technical assistance line that infuriates you so much.

Using deep learning, computers can discover such rule sets and then execute them by themselves; the human becomes irrelevant.  The computer can synthesize knowledge over hundreds of experts and build an expert system which is more accurate than any of them.  This works in fields like medicine.

What makes me wonder is how well such systems cope with true novelty.  A medical expert system trained on everything known through the 1970's suddenly has a cluster of rare diseases popping up with high frequency in association with each other.  Is it even capable of recognizing that this is outside the bounds of its knowledge?

Monkey-wrenching the machines was the essence of the Butlerian jihad, was it not?

Blogger J A Baker April 24, 2016 9:49 AM  

The Amish have the right idea.

Blogger pyrrhus April 24, 2016 9:54 AM  

Teaching in an upper middle class area, out of several hundred kids, I doubt that I had even one student with an IQ as low as 90, and not many as low as 105. Assortive marriage, as Charles Murray and many others have observed, is creating two nations divided by intelligence, occupation and wealth....

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr April 24, 2016 9:56 AM  

Dr. Pournelle's discussion of this topic turned me against unlimited free trade. We're not at the point where we can automate jobs that require an IQ of 100....but of 85? A lot of those have gone to the robots. And when someone's job is automated, he may not be economically retrainable, if he can be retrained at all.

This raises two points. First, what is the real savings from automation and unlimited free trade if displaced workers go on welfare? Second, has the time come to put social and economic pressure on the low-IQ segment to have few or no children?

And it raises a point that Russell Kirk didn't mention about Conservative philosophy....a sense of community. Possibly because he took it for granted.

Blogger Cecil Henry April 24, 2016 10:05 AM  

Yes, a sense of community.

But that require the VOLUNTARY choice of who and what kind of community you want (and don;t want)

This is a freedom they are actively and consciously trying to prevent and destroy.

'No place left White is the mantra of Progressivistic White genocide.

Blogger Student in Blue April 24, 2016 10:08 AM  

@James Dixon
How much experience do you actually have with sub-90 IQ individuals?

While I suspect my coworker of being sub-90, he's probably not.

I've been in contact with a number of mentally retarded people however - you *can* teach them stuff but it's so painfully slow that it's almost not worth it, and certainly not worth it if you're training them to be economically viable high-skilled IT workers.

Really though, I was bemusing whether or not the question was so much can't/won't, or whether it was fast enough to be worthwhile/not.

Blogger Derek Kite April 24, 2016 10:08 AM  

There is a great and honorable place for that iq 85 girl. I know lots of them, in the right environment where they are protected from life ruining decisions they become mothers, dutifully care for their children, the aged. I know a woman, her son works for me, probably in that range, and she sits with the dying, is truly a wonderful person.

I grew up with the notion that being an outsider was actually better, and today to succeed even moderately requires you to actively reject everything that is taught, advanced and promoted. Banks will lend you into penury, schools will vigorously refuse to teach you useful things, government will ruin your life on a whim out worse by 'caring'. Morality is promoting self destruction under the guise of enlightenment.

It doesn't take a high IQ to work or be productive. It takes a high IQ not to make mistakes that make you unemployable. A son raised by a single mother is almost unemployable, with exceptions. Yet a man and a woman who live by simple moral standards, stay together and raise their children and teach then moral standards is a revolutionary act.

Blogger VFM #7634 April 24, 2016 10:09 AM  

The one curiosity is that there's been no "sweep" by the Ivy-educated elite of the rest of the population to extract high-IQ members before the culling begins. Perhaps they believe their numbers are great enough that they can write the rest off as "collateral damage."

@Be Not Afraid
Several reasons for this.

Firstly, Cultural Marxist ideology. They do try to extract high-IQ people from the masses into their ranks, so long as they're nonwhites or (((other select groups))). Otherwise, they rely on nepotism.

Secondly, arrogance. They really believe non-elite whites are dumber than them.

Thirdly, fear. While they like to believe non-elite whites are stupid, they are still terrified about granting any of us access to the levers of power. (That would include Trump, obviously.)

Recall that Microsoft killed its AI named Tay when it became right wing as it became more familiar with the real world.

@dienw
The Emperor Has No Clothes.

Blogger dc.sunsets April 24, 2016 10:18 AM  

Fred's 130+ iq elite are utterly ignorant of what it is (and who it is and where they come from) that delivers their nifty life styles.

"I, pencil" remains utterly relevant. And always will be.

Anonymous mature-Craig April 24, 2016 10:20 AM  

a lot of problems would easily be solved and things would be much better very quickly if prices of rents and mortgages were to come down. those that set these prices simply refuse to lower them

Anonymous mture-Craig April 24, 2016 10:22 AM  

gas dropped from $4.00 to $2.00 so rents should drop from $1200 to $600 and everything would be fantastic

Anonymous kfg April 24, 2016 10:30 AM  

""I, pencil" remains utterly relevant."

Starting naked and empty handed, I can make a pencil. An eraser not so much. I'll have to do a bit of research. A metal ferule to hold it on would be a challenge.

"gas dropped from $4.00 to $2.00 so rents should drop from $1200 to $600 . . ."

I hope this is sarcasm.

Anonymous Philalethes April 24, 2016 10:31 AM  

Note: Heading misspelled. Should be Anacyclosis.

Blogger praetorian April 24, 2016 10:39 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger praetorian April 24, 2016 10:41 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Escoffier April 24, 2016 10:42 AM  

Student in Blue wrote:Is this true? In my experience it's more of a "won't" rather than a can't, and in the example of the auto worker being retrained as an IT professional, it's not an issue of whether or not they can memorize facts or even eventually put them together, but whether they can learn them fast enough to keep up with the quickly expanding knowledge base.

The question changes from being unable to learn at all, to learning so slowly it's pointless to try. Something like every person who has a whole physical body can learn how to play football... eventually, after enough time has been spent doing so... not everyone will be good enough/quick enough of a learner to compete, whether it's at the junior high school level, or at the NFL level.

So yeah, someone can learn how to do something but they won't be amazing at it by any means, nor will they necessarily become better off if they were forced to learn it.


You're doing the exact thing the article speaks of. I work in kitchens and let me tell you you are wrong and clearly don't know many low IQ folk.

Sensei wrote:@24
I wonder how much of intelligence is simply mental competitiveness/motivation? "That looks like a fun challenge, I'm going to figure out how to do it" The strongest person in the world can't pick up a golf ball if they are truly convinced it's impossible and lack the motivation to prove otherwise to themselves. Most people with plenty of mental capacity to grasp at least medium level math won't get past "math is hard... math is hard... math is hard..." it's not that they truly lack the mental resources, but won't becomes can't for them because it's a matter of the will. (In contrast to those truly lacking in mental resources, but no one blames them)


So if I'm understanding you correctly if only they'd pull themselves up by the bootstraps they'd have a higher IQ?

Oh my, what continues to boggle me is that you simply cannot se that you are guilty of what Fred is talking about and cannot see it. IQ is horsepower and no matter how much the little 80 horsepower car tries it will never have 120 horsepower. it can do all sorts of things to increase the efficiency of 80 horsepower (but most likely won't because you know, 80 hp) but it will never have 120 hp.

I don't think you guys have any idea how much of your lives have been IQ selected (where you grew up, where you went to school, where you work, etc. etc) and you really seem to think that secretly dumb people are just like you if only they would apply themselves. Now reread the above article while looking at yourself in a mirror and say I am the clueless cognitive elite that Fred is talking about here.

Blogger praetorian April 24, 2016 10:43 AM  

But I have been reliably informed that coal miners can become computer programmers, learning programming languages such as "Rubi" and "Sinatra".

Amanda Laucher is on a path to proving the free trade naysayers wrong, Vox. With eat-pray-love girl power.

Blogger Escoffier April 24, 2016 10:45 AM  

Be Not Afraid wrote:>Cognitive stratification has political consequences.

Most of my life has been spent around "normal" people, lower middle class folks. I've come to believe that the high-IQ crowd, the 130+ folks, really have no idea what people of near- (or below-) average IQs are like. Assortative mating and in-grouping among the high-IQ aristocracy/oligarchy bunch has made it so they never need to interact socially with anybody but people like themselves.

To the high-IQ crowd, we might as well be two different species. It would be a kind of tribalism, I suppose. Vox suggests it will lead to bloodshed, like so much of tribalism has.

The one curiosity is that there's been no "sweep" by the Ivy-educated elite of the rest of the population to extract high-IQ members before the culling begins. Perhaps they believe their numbers are great enough that they can write the rest off as "collateral damage."


And somewhat ironically the cognitive elite most likely assume their superior intellect would spare them the cannibal's pot but intelligence will not be the key ingredient if true unpleasantness kicks off.

Blogger Escoffier April 24, 2016 10:48 AM  

Derek Kite wrote:There is a great and honorable place for that iq 85 girl. I know lots of them, in the right environment where they are protected from life ruining decisions they become mothers, dutifully care for their children, the aged. I know a woman, her son works for me, probably in that range, and she sits with the dying, is truly a wonderful person.

I grew up with the notion that being an outsider was actually better, and today to succeed even moderately requires you to actively reject everything that is taught, advanced and promoted. Banks will lend you into penury, schools will vigorously refuse to teach you useful things, government will ruin your life on a whim out worse by 'caring'. Morality is promoting self destruction under the guise of enlightenment.

It doesn't take a high IQ to work or be productive. It takes a high IQ not to make mistakes that make you unemployable. A son raised by a single mother is almost unemployable, with exceptions. Yet a man and a woman who live by simple moral standards, stay together and raise their children and teach then moral standards is a revolutionary act.


That is lovely Derek, thank you.

Anonymous Godfrey April 24, 2016 10:52 AM  

Within days hours of the Supreme Court ruling on homosexual "marriage" 60+ year old Bruce Jenner was carted out as a poster-boy transvestite.

This isn't a coincidence. This is a planned war on the family. This is a planned war on the masses. This is about screwing up the heads of young people and drastically reducing population levels. This is cultural genocide.

Anonymous Malwyn's apprentice April 24, 2016 10:53 AM  

Ran into a variant of this twice last week, and I'm still shaking my head. My department downsized severely a few years back, but now that some of our clients have been bitching about service levels we're moving some offsite projects back on-site, which means open positions.

Situation #1: Colleague A received a resume from Former Employee 1, who used to report to me. Colleague mentioned right off that while FE1 looks fantastic on paper, he was at the company for 10yrs and was never promoted.

I stared in shock, then pointed out that FE1 is a worker bee -- very good at his job with no aspirations to move higher; always met his deadlines, great relationships with clients, a bonus for any team. Not sure why Colleague thought everyone should or would want to move upwards ...

Situation #2: I was discussing a possible candidate for my open position, and HR Lady proposed a Former Employee instead of the Current Employee we were discussing. The talk shifted to training, and I mentioned that CE would need training like anyone else.

What about a FE, she asked. I pointed out that everyone would need training, whether we're talking about CE from a different department, FE, someone from a competitor, or someone entirely new to the field -- they all need to be trained.

HR Lady seemed to be under the delusion that an FE could simply slot into place with no training ... that same mindset is what led to the cutting of our department & outsourcing the bulk of our projects.

Blogger praetorian April 24, 2016 10:53 AM  


Ah but they CAN go to college if you create an academic track for functional illiterates.

Which they have done.


If you want a vision of the future, imagine President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho - forever:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmO-ziHU_D8

Blogger Shimshon April 24, 2016 10:53 AM  

@46 How much experience do you actually have with sub-90 IQ individuals?

I have a 20 year old girl as a house guest who is the daughter of very intelligent friends of mine (father is probably around 150, mother is at least 130). She has a tested IQ of 65. She has no genetic anomalies. As her mother put it, she fits in with people of approximately 85 IQ because of the extensive effort of her parents to mainstream her as much as possible. This seems to be the case, but her 65 IQ comes through all the time. I only met her for the first time several months ago, and only this past week has she spent more than one night in my home.

It has been an interesting experience, to say the least.

Blogger dienw April 24, 2016 11:12 AM  

Redd: What to do about an ever-increasing number of people for whom there is no work.

Simple: allow them to establish their own little businesses be it a food cart on the sidewalk, a cobbler, a shoe shine stand, whatever; just stop driving them off the sidewalks and streets: I remember Mayor Bloomberg outlawing food carts on NYC sidewalks; how many people did he drive onto the welfare roles and into despair?.

Anonymous Gen. Kong April 24, 2016 11:13 AM  

VFM 7634
.It'll be interesting to see what'll happen when SCOTUS goes full leftoid under Hillary and attempts to make draconian gun control the law of the land.

The Lizard Queen isn't even required for this. All that Bathhouse Barry-O needs is the almost certain acquiescence of the Kentucky Undertaker, Miss Lindsay and the rest of the Pedo-Bear Party in the Chamber of Incitatuses (they'll do it in the lame-duck session after the 'erection') and the Bloombergite dual-citizen likely to be nominated will be rubber-stamped. They've given magic negro everything he wanted, why stop? It's not as if the morons who vote actually pay attention to what they do.

Anonymous Philalethes April 24, 2016 11:17 AM  

Meanwhile, the sub-100 IQ population of the world is employing Nature's ancient, unconscious solution for threatened populations: reproduce more and faster. Prognosis doesn't look good.

Even the Chinese have been able to reduce (not eliminate) population growth only by wholesale abortion, which is no more a real solution than "quantitative easing".

Blogger praetorian April 24, 2016 11:25 AM  

What to do about an ever-increasing number of people for whom there is no work.

The women can care for young children and the elderly, the men can carve buildings, churches in particular, and other civilizational infrastructure out of stone. We live in a country of abandonment and injection-molded ugliness, and we can't figure out what to do will all the unemployed folks laying about?

Of course, I'm assuming a nation in that "we", so the realistic answer is collapse and war.

Blogger tz April 24, 2016 11:30 AM  

@11 Asimov's Foundation, the first two books.
The theme is also in some of Laumer's and Chalker's works.

America used to be mostly blue collar. A man could support a family.
Note you don't have to be elite to learn a trade, but vocational education is a dirty word - plumbers, welders, mechanics also had jobs. Even ranching and farming.
Note the factory jobs moved - they are done by the lower castes in Mexico and China. They still exist. But we would rather have our lower ranks on disability and welfare.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents April 24, 2016 11:34 AM  

The women can care for young children and the elderly, the men can carve buildings, churches in particular, and other civilizational infrastructure out of stone

Only if they are dutiful and attentive to detail. Those are not skills currently trained into people.

We live in a country of abandonment and injection-molded ugliness, and we can't figure out what to do will all the unemployed folks laying about?

The other question is “the border”. The transnational elite doesn’t care for borders, so they are erasing them. That makes finding work for 1,000 people with IQ 95 this week pointless, as 10,000 more will arrive from the Syria or someplace else next week.

Anonymous sth_txs April 24, 2016 11:34 AM  

Fred Reed makes some good points but seems confused about the term capitalism. But yes, technological unemployment is coming and not just for those without the magic money making degrees.

Blogger tz April 24, 2016 11:41 AM  

IQ 85 suffices to become literate.
Automation isn't always cheaper, but the regulations making a factory worker cost $20-$25 per hour (safety, insurance, defined benefits, taxes) before wages makes robots cheaper although they have high initial and maintenance costs.
Can we find jobs for such people? If we are willing - These regulatory costs are why plants are moving to Mexico instead of a pure robotic factory here. Mexicans are not some kind of productivity elite. They are simply cheaper to employ.

Blogger tz April 24, 2016 11:48 AM  

How well will the elite do when the grid goes down and the electronic online money isn't available?

These speculations assume a robust, resilient society, not a fragile one.

The economy is running on fumes - when only a few thousand can afford an iPhone, how well will Apple do? Dusenberg motors? You have Muslim terrorists in our midst (San Bernadio victims weren't the poor) who would be happy to return to the 7th century.
Christendom had given even fallen man dignity.
Cronyocracy only measures utility.

Anonymous Gen. Kong April 24, 2016 11:49 AM  

Veinarmor:
You forgot #7. Kikeocracy A sub-species of Hominidae comprising less than 1% of total world population controlling 90% of all fiat wealth production, media communications, and manipulative influence in the shaping of mores and folkways of diverse cultures. A tribe with 2000 years of documented behavior mired in the practice of usury, slavery, pimpery and perversity. Kikeocracy, that's where we're at today. God help us.

The behavior of the tribe mentioned is well-documented, yet your post misses the other part (arguably the greater part) of the problem. There was an interesting tale someone posted over at Spencer's Radix site or a similar dark enlightenment hangout. The most interesting thing about it is how few of those reading it actually get the point. Here it is, let's see how many get it here….

I once asked [Grandma], when she came on a visit, what her problem with Jews was. Her answer struck me as Old Lady ranting then, but I have realized since that it is so true as to almost be a mystical Truth.



She said: 

“The Jew will look at a pile of shit and say ‘That’s gold!’ Then, he’ll look at a pile of gold and say ‘That’s shit!’ And then he’ll find ten other Jews to rewrite every book and newspaper within reach until YOU and your kids look at the shit and agree that ‘Yes, shit is gold and gold is shit!’ Then, while you are putting shit in your pockets, he’ll take all the gold and share it with his ten other Jews. It’s their NATURE.”



Her statement is true on so many levels that it blows my mind. Criminals are victims, victims are criminals, truth is a lie, immoral is moral, shit is gold.

 Oy vey.


I'll make it easy for you. They can't change their NATURE any more than a 80 horsepower machine can will itself into being a 120-horsepower one. And before we start arguing over whether its acquired behavior or innate (=NATURE, in other words), their well-documented behavior actually a secondary point.

Blogger BunE22 April 24, 2016 11:57 AM  

@ 58

"a lot of problems would easily be solved and things would be much better very quickly if prices of rents and mortgages were to come down. those that set these prices simply refuse to lower them"

Huh? When hub and I bought our first house in 1982 our mortgage interest was 15.75%. Mortgage interest rates are below 4.% now, how low do you want them to go?

Rentals are based on supply and demand, if we keep the borders open the demand will stay high.

Anonymous The OASF April 24, 2016 12:06 PM  

Only solution I see... Get yourself a MakerBot 3D printer. They sell them at prices that almost can't be refused right now and I'm sure near future president Killary will try and ban those too.

Download the programs and learn how to print 9 millimeter or 40 caliber or AR-15 and anything else you can think of. Collect tons of lead and learn how to make bullets.

It's your only hope and our only hope. The Sopranos theme song is practically a Biblical hymn.

Grab yourself a gun.

Blogger The Other Robot April 24, 2016 12:15 PM  

Kratman points out that your enemy gets a vote ... and it seems possible to use their system against them.

Blogger The Other Robot April 24, 2016 12:19 PM  

It is also the case that our whole civilization is getting more and more complex, and complex system have a greater tendency to come apart and require more intelligent people to maintain them.

On the other hand, education is being dummied down so much that ...

Anonymous kfg April 24, 2016 12:20 PM  

"Collect tons of lead and learn how to make bullets."

Making bullets is easy, any idiot with a hibachi can do it. Cartridges not so much.

Anonymous Philalethes April 24, 2016 12:21 PM  

In reality, the theory probably needs to be updated....

The Institute for Anacyclosis (linked at Wikipedia page) does so, with explanation:

1. Chiefdom, 2. Kingdom, 3. Tyranny, 4. Aristocracy, 5. Oligarchy, 6. Democracy, 7. Plutocracy, 8. Demagarchy.

Our mission is to abstract a universal history from the common experience of mankind, and to persuade all people that the welfare of the middle class should be the highest law so that democracy may continue forever.

(Of course, "forever" is a pretty big word, but at least it's worth trying to understand the cycle so that perhaps it might be influenced and its worst aspects avoided or foreshortened.)

our philosophy:
...
• That as long as the middle class prevails, society will approach democracy.
• That democracy is the best stage in the sequence of evolution.
• That the middle class should be the largest class.
• That the welfare of the middle class should be the highest law.

Blogger James Dixon April 24, 2016 12:31 PM  

> or whether it was fast enough to be worthwhile/not.

If it's not fast enough to be worthwhile, is it really a case of won't?

> I pointed out that everyone would need training...

Management and HR: "Training? We've heard of it."

Blogger Doom April 24, 2016 12:31 PM  

I have finally understood that they really can't. What is worse, they aren't able to be free. They will either be political or literal whores or slaves, unless their numbers become to large... which is why abortion has remained so long. Or, like South Africa, our government would be strangled until it surrendered to black intellectual capacity. Or we slaughter them. I am still amazed at how fast some groups breed. And they truly don't care what the costs are, they don't see them. If too, great wealth has destroyed women's want of children. They really do just want to have fun. Though, granted freedom, with their intellect, only physical force and humbling poverty seems to get women, the right ones, to breed. As well, though, men have surrendered having children to have more sex, or sex with more women. Calling women equal allows for that. A known false thing.

Now with drugs, wealth (even as it fades they grab for it like the cocaine clumps they were sure dropped to the ground), sex, even porn, taking over and filling many people's lives, IQ's are dropping so quickly. Toss in immigration, incest, and some other things and you are creating, truly, a non-bio zombie population. I really think moving to Alaska, finding a place on the periphery, then scanning for places even further out but close enough to have some sort of social... but with others with a moral and intellectual bent... At least until the next mass extinction. God didn't promise never to do that again, only to not use the flood to do it.

Blogger dc.sunsets April 24, 2016 12:34 PM  

Making bullets is easy, making PRIMERS not so much (as you know.)

The reason 22LR remains in short supply is the danger & complexity of rimfire priming. Propellant burns, priming compound explodes. No new rimfire production has come on line in the USA probably since the 1960's.

Blogger James Dixon April 24, 2016 12:36 PM  

> Download the programs and learn how to print 9 millimeter or 40 caliber or AR-15 and anything else you can think of. Collect tons of lead and learn how to make bullets.

Black powder single shot rifles are a lot easier to make, and will probably be just as effective in the long run.

Blogger dc.sunsets April 24, 2016 12:38 PM  

Orwell covered the top line of all this in The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism by fictional author Emanuel Goldstein.

There has always been and always will be a High, a Middle and a Low. Channeling Ayn Rand, don't be among the Low.

Blogger RobertT April 24, 2016 12:41 PM  

"Yes, of course they understand that some people are smarter than others, but they often seem not to grasp how much smarter, or what the consequences are. A large part of the population can’t learn-much of anything."

Just Friday I told a staff that most people simply can't be mentored. I fall right smack dab in the middle of this. It's mind-boggling how dimwitted the vast majority of people are. I complain how hard it is to find quality staff, but this is what I'm actually talking about.

Blogger RobertT April 24, 2016 12:45 PM  

" It leads liberals to think that their client groups can go to college. It leads conservatives to think that with hard work and determination…."

Dunning-Kruger Effect.

Anonymous kfg April 24, 2016 12:49 PM  

@90: ". . . PRIMERS not so much (as you know.)"

Yes. I was referring to a ready to fire cartridge, not simply the brass.

@91: "Black powder single shot rifles are a lot easier to make, and will probably be just as effective in the long run."

Get just about everything you need at Home Depot. They'll do ya for about 90% of what you need. The other 10% will still bite your ass though. You need to live through the short run to make it to the long run.

Blogger RobertT April 24, 2016 12:52 PM  

"The logical conclusion is that the increased irrelevance of the competent white middle and working classes is why the former is entirely willing to replace them with an even more irrelevant, and less intelligent population who can be much more easily subdued and eliminated in time."

Sounds rational, but never forget, the brain is not a rational organ, it's an emotional organ. I just read a hypothesis last night that our entire reality may be social construct.

In any event, this is where I part ways with the Silicon Valley.

Blogger RobertT April 24, 2016 12:52 PM  

"The logical conclusion is that the increased irrelevance of the competent white middle and working classes is why the former is entirely willing to replace them with an even more irrelevant, and less intelligent population who can be much more easily subdued and eliminated in time."

Sounds rational, but never forget, the brain is not a rational organ, it's an emotional organ. I just read a hypothesis last night that our entire reality may be social construct.

In any event, this is where I part ways with the Silicon Valley.

Anonymous User April 24, 2016 12:57 PM  

I wonder what the minimum IQ is at which an individual can successfully be drilled into becoming a soldier. That's one job that will never be automated away.

Anonymous Spartacus xxxxx April 24, 2016 12:59 PM  

VFM #7634 wrote:This looks pretty aristocratic to me.

True, although she really is looking more and more like Webster Hubbell lately.


Wow, you're right. Searching on Webster Hubbell images brings up a lot of Chelsea too. Look at the large mouth, nose shape, jowls, eye shape. So Bill is a cuck?

Anonymous mature-Craig April 24, 2016 1:00 PM  

What to do about an ever-increasing number of people for whom there is no work.

there is always something you can do, farming, driving, shining something, picking up garbge, cleaning something.. there is always work

but there has to place for people that do these things to live

Blogger The Other Robot April 24, 2016 1:00 PM  

Meanwhile, facts seem to demonstrate that those who want more gun control have an ulterior motive.

Blogger The Other Robot April 24, 2016 1:01 PM  

@98: Depends on how complex the weapons are and how many women he has to deal with during his service.

Blogger James Dixon April 24, 2016 1:19 PM  

> That's one job that will never be automated away.

I wouldn't count on that.

Anonymous kfg April 24, 2016 1:29 PM  

The Cheetah is getting better.

Blogger RobertT April 24, 2016 1:30 PM  

Silicon Valley's juxtaposition on the billion people problem: Lucrative market or unnecessary anchors?
http://www.fastcompany.com/3058949/youtube-advanced-technology-and-the-billion-people-problem

Anonymous Athor Pel April 24, 2016 1:38 PM  

I have a couple stories that might serve to illustrate some little bit of what is going on.


One time, literally, back in high school I helped a classmate with some algebra. He just wasn't understanding what the teacher was explaining. I explained it another way with an illustration and when I was done said, "See, isn't that easy?"

He said, "No."

I didn't remember this happening. He used this story as an example of his impression of me that he told my Dad. He and my Dad worked at the same place decades after our high school days.


Another example:
This one is from work.
The group I work in puts data into a database. The database is basically a model of industrial assets. We have several sources for that data all coming from the field. One form that we and the field rely on isn't all that well designed. Unless you are well versed in how the actual field work is done and have a good grasp on the vocabulary the form and data entered in it can confuse you. Much of what we put in the database is sythesized from multiple data sources based on a hierarchy of rules and a knowledge of how things are out in the real world.

We have a relatively new employee, she's been in the group for three years I think. She's trying but from the number of mistakes found in the database committed by her we've begun to scrutinize her work much more closely. Recently a set of mistakes were found that shocked me in their ineptitude. It was very difficult for me not to attribute it to malice because the error was fundamental. It violated one of the core principles she had been taught from the very beginning. But nope, not malice, it was an assumption of correctness on her part backed up by following an order in the most literal way possible while working as fast as she can in order to prove her worth.

After that it became clear to me she wasn't really understanding what she was doing at a deep enough level. A lot of what she was doing was by rote.

Recently, in walking her through what a particular form was telling her and seeing her resistance to even begin to apply basic problem solving techniques I've come to the conclusion that she might be incapable of doing the job solo. Everybody needs help sometimes because they inevitably run up on things they've never seen before or they forgot something they've only rarely seen. But I don't think she will ever truly self navigate. The amount of help she will need on a regular basis will be several times larger than everyone else in the group.

To maybe help explain the relationship of the form to our database I must say that the form is a description of maintenance done and in that capacity it does just that. What it does not do is provide direct answers as to what tables, what fields and what data to put into those fields in the database. There is no one-to-one relationship. If you are attempting to put that data into the database correctly you have to know the field work and the database and the intention behind the design of the database.

Database data entry on its face sounds like a straightforward job. Apparently it is not.

Anonymous Steed April 24, 2016 1:39 PM  

Just this morning at oh-dark 30, I went to make my hourly round of the truck stop parking lot I patrol when I came upon a great cloud of smoke hanging over the back lot. As I went in my F-150 to see which semis` reefer unit was burning up (happens all the time) I was nearly hit head on by an older model Freightliner tractor bobtail moving like its ass was on fire. He left the yard and hit the Interstate at warp 9. He got maybe a 1/4 mile down the road when he saw that it was his rig on fire not one next where he was parked. He went on to the medium and barely got away before his diesel tanks went KA-BOOM! Lets say that we love our Shilks but hate the Ragheads that the so-called PTBs seem to not import enough.

Anonymous Steed April 24, 2016 2:08 PM  

Chit! Wheelers back?!? While I`m kinda pleased, `Dammit man` as Nate would say, Don`t you see that `jews` aren't the central of all things but only a part of the whole picture like everybody else?

Anonymous Ad Victoriam April 24, 2016 2:12 PM  

@29 When everyone's stability and standard of living plummet, it's better to be the King's soldier than the King's peasant. However, the historical record of long term success for society's that employ mercenary armies is crystal clear.

Blogger Elder Son April 24, 2016 2:17 PM  

There is an app for all this:

"To keep global resource use within prudent limits while the poor raise their living standards, affluent societies need to consume less.
Population, consumption, technology, development, and the environment are linked in complex relationships that bear closely on human welfare in the global neighbourhood. Their effective and equitable management calls for a systemic, long-term, global approach guided by the principle of sustainable development, which has been the central lesson from the mounting ecological dangers of recent times. Its universal application is a priority among the tasks of global governance."
United Nations Our Global Neighborhood 1995


These people are always way ahead of you.

"I don't claim to have any special interest in natural history, but as a boy I was made aware of the annual fluctuations in the number of game animals and the need to adjust the 'cull' to the size of the surplus population." Preface to Down to Earth by HRH Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, 1988

But first, the will, the minds of the survivors, must be so traumatized, that they will accept peace at any cost.

You don't have your bunker ticket, do you?

It's okay. They're just kidding.

Anonymous mature-Craig April 24, 2016 2:24 PM  

"gas dropped from $4.00 to $2.00 so rents should drop from $1200 to $600 . . ."

didn't mean to imply cause and effect. (should = wrong word )

I would just like to rents drop in like gas dropped.

Blogger dienw April 24, 2016 2:29 PM  

98. User April 24, 2016 12:57 PM

I wonder what the minimum IQ is at which an individual can successfully be drilled into becoming a soldier. That's one job that will never be automated away.

This.

Anonymous BGKB April 24, 2016 2:31 PM  

Few of the very bright have have ever had to make the unhappy calculation: Forty times a low minimum wage minus bus fare to work, rent

One of the biggest shocks was when talking about traveler benefits when someone pointed out that the tax free per diem for meal allowance per week was more than 40 hours of min wage after taxes of their paycheck.

Anonymous Cheddarman April 24, 2016 2:38 PM  

That is why there is a trend in the military towards drones and robot soldiers.

Blogger The Other Robot April 24, 2016 2:42 PM  

@108: Is there any data on what happens to societies that routinely use women in their armed forces (excluding last-ditch home defense, they are lost by that point, anyway.)

Blogger The Other Robot April 24, 2016 2:45 PM  

@113: Yes, unless someone infects them with a computer virus they will not turn on an slaughter their masters.

Blogger Were-Puppy April 24, 2016 2:47 PM  

@113 Cheddarman
That is why there is a trend in the military towards drones and robot soldiers.
---

Looks like we're going to need jamming tech, targetted EMP tech, and plinking for the drones.

Anonymous Instasetting April 24, 2016 2:51 PM  

Intelligence ain't the real problem. The real problem is pride and sloth on the part of the elite. Return to Jehovah, and the problem is quite solvable.

Anonymous Instasetting April 24, 2016 2:55 PM  

To clarify things, imagine you're a Triple Niner, and the Super AI's have arrived. They're Quintuple Niners. You and the rest of Humanity are slooooooowwww.

However, the AI's don't kill us all (if they do our problems are over, those who are Christians.)

Instead, they go do their own things. Grab Jupiter and turn it into an AI Home, forex.

Will you still be able to find something useful to do?

If you can, why can't Miss 85 IQ?

Remember, to the AI's you're hardly different than she is.

Blogger synp April 24, 2016 2:56 PM  

Take a look at Starbucks and you will know what the future peasants will do.

We can easily build a machine that will make coffee as well as a Starbucks barista. But what that machine cannot make is $7 coffee. We won't pay $7 for coffee made by a robot, though we will pay that for the "human touch".

That's the future of low-paying jobs. Doing the jobs any machine can do, but doing them "by a human". Expect baristas, butlers, hat-check girls, pool cleaners. All serving the moderately rich, to make them feel like the aristocrats of old.

Blogger The Other Robot April 24, 2016 2:56 PM  

@112: Damn, you are right. Min wage a day is $60[1].

I have a hard time imagining that the per-diem for meals is less than that.

Federal minimum. In CA's fairyland, it is $120. Execs probably manage that.

Blogger Elder Son April 24, 2016 3:00 PM  

Robot soldiers are just tools to be used by the Borg soldiers.

Borg is were it's at. And the plus side, they already know how to turn off, and on, emotions.

Anonymous mature-craig April 24, 2016 3:07 PM  

I also like the idea of free-housing, very small modest accomadations but free.
that could easily be done if they really cared about poverty and homelessness

Anonymous Jack Amok April 24, 2016 3:13 PM  

The logical conclusion is that the increased irrelevance of the competent white middle and working classes is why the former is entirely willing to replace them with an even more irrelevant, and less intelligent population who can be much more easily subdued and eliminated in time.

This reminds me of an army run by Generals in medal-bedecked uniforms, ordering a bunch of Privates around, and not having any competent NCOs around because the big-wigs can't tolerate competent underlings.

Anonymous BGKB April 24, 2016 3:34 PM  

Cognitive stratification has political consequences. It leads liberals to think that their client groups can go to college

Asians are suing Harvard because having a perfect SAT is worth less than being black while just smart enough to spell your name.

small group actions that begin to snowball until the USA develops its own version of FARC.

I am actually hoping for a Pinochet to send the helicopters to flight. Round up the commies, fly over main street, And drop them from a staggering height.

elites slowly collapsing as stuff breaks down and no one is able to fix it? There was a movie about that. Idiocrasy.

Idiocrasy part II was called Elysium: Asian and White flight into space.

A lot of dead cops amongst those stupid enough to try to enforce the law. But they won't believe that until it happens.

You would think Rahm Emanuel's f****t son getting beat up by blacks, with cops not bothering to investigate would have made him change his mind.

The elites use the lower IQ masses to destroy their intellectual competition within the middleclass. Are they intellectually superior?

The jewish bolshiviks targeted the smartest ethnic Russian goyim when they killed off 60+ million, an had Moa target the smartest Chinese not in the party when he killed 100 million. How many Teslas got killed by collectivism?

Recall that Microsoft killed its AI named Tay when it became right wing as it became more familiar with the real world.

I read on a badthink site that Microsoft is trying to come up with a way to avoid AIs noticing jews/hitler. Law of robotics 4

"gas dropped from $4.00 to $2.00 so rents should drop from $1200 to $600 . . ."I hope this is sarcasm.

He is demonstrating how low IQ people think.

lot of Chelsea too. Look at the large mouth, nose shape, jowls, eye shape. So Bill is a cuck?

Only if another man has been with HilLIARy, an Iranian woman with a mustache doesn't count.

Damn, you are right. Min wage a day is $60[1].I have a hard time imagining that the per-diem for meals is less than that.

Travelers get per diem for meals 7 days a week tax free, as long as you don't do 4 contracts in a row in the same area. You would be better off not working at all for 13weeks than take a 4th contract in a row in the same area, because of all the tax free bennies that would be taxed.

Anonymous BGKB April 24, 2016 3:45 PM  

related today https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/04/24/why-is-africa-so-poor-while-europe-and-north-america-are-so-wealthy/

for some reason I cant even get to the comments

Anonymous A.B. Prosper April 24, 2016 3:58 PM  

The closest to a peaceful solution is recapture for the Leftists, Economic Liberals and Tranzis and the formation of a regulatory homogeneous socially conservative state.

Heavy controls on automation and imports mandatory work sharing , benefits for intact families with workers or over the short term, civilian conservation core, the whole edifice of the social State.

This is the medieval model more or less as it was before the disruption of the Black death, everything has a place and a place for everything with tons of holidays, mandated days off, make work short work weeks and the state to backstop the lack of efficiency and likely economic losses.

It would have to be a near dictatorship though since the influence of the Ayn Rand Jihad the rest of the economic liberals will means consonant struggle for compliance.

However such a state would be decently stable and is compatible with a Christian world view since its model is from pre industrial Christendom more or less.

The other option for non Christians is a Eugenic Welfare state where immigration is curtailed, trade controlled and people simply paid to not have kids based on IQ and health.

Basically something like the basic income guarantee but with a kicker.

This would be popular with some of the Malthusian Greens , the Ted Turner types however it will have no effect on much of the world.

However much any members of the nutty elite might like it, it makes the 1 billion Africans a severe threat even with closed borders.

Its also more expensive that the regulatory state since you still need a huge technology ally sophisticated military and border security added to a population in permanent decline,

In theory, the two could sort of be combined, the edifices of the social state with some incentives for troubled people to have smaller families, extra money or benefits but it doesn't make a great deal of sense in some ways.


Blogger Student in Blue April 24, 2016 4:21 PM  

@Escoffier
I don't think you guys have any idea how much of your lives have been IQ selected (where you grew up, where you went to school, where you work, etc. etc) and you really seem to think that secretly dumb people are just like you if only they would apply themselves.
No I don't believe that, and I wasn't trying argue that direction.

I wasn't saying that it was all "won't", but rather than it leans more towards won't rather than can't. It's not an argument that we're all marvelous blank slates just bound by our will, but rather that most of things that stop the stupid people I see is they start to think about things, realize it'd take too long/is too hard, and promptly decide to stop thinking about it.

It's real-life proof why I find persuading the lower-IQ with rhetoric rather than dialectic is the superior choice.

By the way, your metaphor doesn't follow: If it's a problem of whether or not the car can *arrive* at the same destination sooner or later, then there's no effective difference between the fast and the slow one. Simply going fast is something else.

Then again, and this is me musing out loud, there may be a minimum "speed" required to simply escape mental lethargy, that is, overcoming the amount of information your senses tell you to do so you have enough brain cycles to think of other things. On the other hand you can just close your eyes or go into a quiet area where things fall in to the background.

This of course does not help those with jobs, and as such some jobs will require a level of IQ simply required to block out extraneous information. This is not the same thing as being able to learn things, but rather being able to perform a skill.

@James Dixon
If it's not fast enough to be worthwhile, is it really a case of won't?

Yes and no. There's nothing that increases your mental speed so that's sort of "can't", but they can learn the facts and learn the previously established theories, so that's sort of "won't".

They just won't be innovating new solutions anytime soon.

Anonymous BGKB April 24, 2016 4:31 PM  

If it's a problem of whether or not the car can *arrive* at the same destination sooner or later, then there's no effective difference between the fast and the slow one. Simply going fast is something else.

I see someone has never been in a car that struggled to go up a steep hill before. Think of a 4 cylinder car towing a trailer up a hill.

Anonymous BGKB April 24, 2016 4:49 PM  

Perhaps the low IQ could be hired to make custom fitted supersized cloths.

http://www.anonymousconservative.com/blog/signs-of-r-selection-tent-sized-clothing/

The obesity crisis sweeping Britain is now so acute that dozens of shops are selling XXXXXXXXL size clothes.

A huge 8XL T-shirt would fit an incredible 80in chest and 80in waist – the equivalent of almost seven feet in circumference.

Blogger Robert What? April 24, 2016 5:33 PM  

If they were not importing millions of low-skill, low-intelligence migrants (both legal and illegal) there might still be sufficient work for the American born people of low skill and low intelligence. There used to be a thriving black lower middle class in the (un)United States. They have been drop kicked into the underclass by this invasion. That is the true racism and it is all on the backs our government and the SJWs.

Blogger SciVo April 24, 2016 6:05 PM  

mature-Craig wrote:What to do about an ever-increasing number of people for whom there is no work.

there is always something you can do, farming, driving, shining something, picking up garbge, cleaning something.. there is always work

but there has to place for people that do these things to live


And indeed, if they had some resources on their land -- enough to make the necessities of life -- then all they would have to do is prohibit importation.

Which is more expensive: a hand-crafted heirloom-quality object that you can trade the product of your labor for; or a robot factory product that was made quickly and cheaply, but you don't have anything that the owner wants (maybe your daughter)?

Anonymous Jack Amok April 24, 2016 6:05 PM  

Possibly we have already started implementing one possible solution. We've apparently decided to employ large numbers of low IQ people in various public and corporate bureaucracies.

Anonymous kfg April 24, 2016 6:14 PM  

"Think of a 4 cylinder car towing a trailer up a hill."

It was a three cylinder car with a trailer's worth of crap on a roof rack and five people in it, crossing the Sierra Madres on a goat track.

Everybody but the driver got out and walked while the car made the summit in reverse.

Feynman claimed a 120 IQ and won a Nobel Prize in physics. So what's the excuse of people with a 130+ IQ?

It's fucking hard to think that hard. The only difference between the smart people and stupid people is when it gets hard for them, not the getting hard in and of itself.

SiB probably quits at about the same level of perceived difficulty as the stupid people.

And stops running at the same level of perceived difficulty as Usain Bolt. Bolt just goes a lot faster for the same effort.

Anonymous kfg April 24, 2016 6:20 PM  

Addendum: Usain Bolt makes the full 100 meters in 10 seconds. Putting in the same all out effort SiB will also only last 10 seconds (because that's all a human can do at that level of effort), but won't even finish the mere 100 meter race.

Blogger kurt9 April 24, 2016 6:33 PM  

Someone said something that makes sense. Housing costs (mortgages, rents) have gone up dramatically since 1995. I think this is entirely due to the Federal Reserve created bubbles and the obsession with turning everyone into a home owner by reducing lending standards even when it does not make sense for many people. The other cost that totally out of control is medical care. These two things slam the poor more than anything else.

Blogger The Other Robot April 24, 2016 6:56 PM  

Hollywood could not resist adding some women and niggers to The Martian.

Blogger Student in Blue April 24, 2016 7:01 PM  

@BGKB
I see someone has never been in a car that struggled to go up a steep hill before. Think of a 4 cylinder car towing a trailer up a hill.
Then in the case of the stupid people, what's the force of gravity dragging them down, preventing them from thinking certain thoughts? Either way you're just throwing in a different metaphor with no anecdotes or evidence why it's more correct.

Look, I get the point you guys are trying to make, I'm just saying that it's not necessarily a given. You and others are trying to rebut by trying to make the same point over and over again.

@kfg
It's fucking hard to think that hard. The only difference between the smart people and stupid people is when it gets hard for them, not the getting hard in and of itself.
That's essentially the point I'm making/pondering towards. The claim made in the original post being that it was impossible (i.e. "can't") for them to learn or be trained in some jobs.

Then people mistakenly believed that meant I thought they'd be good at all of them. Yeesh.

Addendum: Usain Bolt makes the full 100 meters in 10 seconds. Putting in the same all out effort SiB will also only last 10 seconds (because that's all a human can do at that level of effort), but won't even finish the mere 100 meter race.

Charmed. 100m isn't that far you know.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr April 24, 2016 7:07 PM  

synp wrote:

That's the future of low-paying jobs. Doing the jobs any machine can do, but doing them "by a human". Expect baristas, butlers, hat-check girls, pool cleaners. All serving the moderately rich, to make them feel like the aristocrats of old.

Secretaries, personal assistants, errand-runners. The real key will be maintaining dignity.

Anonymous kfg April 24, 2016 7:57 PM  

"Charmed. 100m isn't that far you know."

I know exactly how far it is, and it's too far for even Usain Bolt to run flat out. In the last 40 meters he's slowing down and trying not to fall over before the finish.

To have any idea what he experiences in a race you would need to cut the distance down to that which you make in 10 seconds. It is the time of effort which is relevant.

And no matter how you train or how hard you run you will never run 100 meters in 10 seconds.

Because your Sprinter's Quotient is 85 (or whatever), and that's just the way it is. If you don't like it, pick different parents next time.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents April 24, 2016 8:14 PM  

"Charmed. 100m isn't that far you know.”

Sure, but your job requires you to run it in 10 to 12 seconds. Better start with that training. Because if you can’t do it, they’ll find someone who can.

Blogger SamJ April 24, 2016 8:21 PM  

@SiB, looks like you're limiting IQ affect to info retention or memorization.

Actual processing power seems way more limiting and that's why you keep getting the same answer from others.

E.g
I can think through a + b + c+ d.
You can think through a + b + c + d + e.

No matter how hard I try I can't run that complex of a thought process or simultaneous considerations.

I tutor a complex game and a friend of mine makes the same mistake. He insists with work he could be pro, but as someone who was (so-so) and knows them, it's clear to me he can't function at a high enough info filtering/processing level to be pro. I have seen him work hard, it's NOT close.

Tl;DR Some climbs are impossible for some engines.

Anonymous kfg April 24, 2016 8:30 PM  

"Some climbs are impossible for some engines."

And the altitude of the climb, not just the grade, is a relevant factor. My three cylinder, 748cc car (a SAAB 93B) climbed the same grades at a mile high that it failed at at more than two miles high.

Blogger Student in Blue April 24, 2016 8:39 PM  

@kfg
I know exactly how far it is, and it's too far for even Usain Bolt to run flat out. In the last 40 meters he's slowing down and trying not to fall over before the finish.
I get what you're trying to say but it's such a ridiculous metaphor because no one runs that way - 10 seconds and if they don't make it, woops I'm falling over.

Also I'm pretty sure it's still possible to at least trudge along -- not at anything approaching running speeds, but enough to complete a race -- after running through your tank.

@SamJ
SiB, looks like you're limiting IQ affect to info retention or memorization.
No, I keep calling it "speed" and have been treating it as mental alacrity.
What the hell is up with people treating me like I'm retarded today?

The point is, "training and learning" can be broken down into info retention or memorization, and as you rightfully pointed out, that is not IQ.

This does not mean that everyone can be a rocket surgeon. You can't "learn" nuggets of info that allow you to connect abstract concepts to other abstract concepts in fields that demand that, nor can you "learn" how to think quick enough to improvise and eliminate the competition in fields such as sports. As far as I know, IQ is related to the former, and it is absolutely the latter.

Seriously people, read what I'm typing instead of just getting the 'emanations and penumbras'.

Blogger Student in Blue April 24, 2016 8:44 PM  

As per the OP, I think it is entirely possible for a sub-90 IQ to eventually learn Sanskrit phrases and after a mindbogglingly long enough time, learn all of the vocabulary in Sanskrit.

Effectively, they have "learned" Sanskrit. Absolutely they will not understand how everything fits together grammatically and logically, however, and won't be able to detect patterns in language on their own. These dumbasses have the ability to regurgitate and emulate sound and can parrot back words.

It might not be anything better than parroting, but then really the question is, what constitutes "learning" a language then, and why is it different than learning the alphabet or multiplication tables which are just pure rote?

Blogger Student in Blue April 24, 2016 8:45 PM  

These dumbasses have the ability to regurgitate and emulate sound and can parrot back words.

Should be: These dumbasses have the ability to regurgitate and emulate sound and can parrot back words, so it follows that they can at the very basic physical level, mimic the sounds of Sanskrit.

Typing a bit too quickly I fear.

Anonymous Athor Pel April 24, 2016 9:13 PM  

"121. synp April 24, 2016 2:56 PM
...
We can easily build a machine that will make coffee as well as a Starbucks barista. But what that machine cannot make is $7 coffee. We won't pay $7 for coffee made by a robot, though we will pay that for the "human touch".
..."


Starbucks is actually a bad example for your point. Starbucks uses super automatic espresso machines. What that means is that Starbucks employees are not baristas, they are persons behind the counter. They put the cup on the machine and push a button. The machine does everything except put in syrups or squirt whipped cream on top. No skill needed. Follow a list from corporate and take the customer's money.

Starbucks is already robot coffee.

Anonymous kfg April 24, 2016 9:20 PM  

". . .no one runs that way - 10 seconds and if they don't make it, woops I'm falling over."

And yet I've seen it.

"Also I'm pretty sure it's still possible to at least trudge along -- not at anything approaching running speeds, but enough to complete a race -- after running through your tank."

Then I wouldn't have seen it happen. I've seen people fall over in endurance events as well.

In lifting sports going to failure is actually common. Squat to failure and then try to walk. Or even just stand up.

"I think it is entirely possible for a sub-90 IQ to eventually learn Sanskrit phrases and after a mindbogglingly long enough time . . ."

Feral children never learn to speak any language. There is not only a genetic limit, that limit has a time component.

You have hard wired language acquisition skills until you are circa 12 years old. After that age, the circuit turns off. If you learn multiple language skills before that age, you retain the ability. If you do not, you cannot acquire the skill at a later time.

This applies to smart kids as well, it has nothing to due with overall intelligence. It's a basic genetically encoded system.

But smart kids are typically exposed (if only by self exposure) to other languages while still linguistically plastic.

Anonymous Sagamore April 24, 2016 9:22 PM  

@121 That sounds like the Philippines.

Anonymous kfg April 24, 2016 9:27 PM  

" . . . we will pay that for the "human touch"."

See the Arts & Crafts Movement.

Anonymous cheddarman April 24, 2016 9:37 PM  

The Congressional black caucus strongly supports the immivasion. I wonder how they justify that?

Anonymous mature-Craig April 24, 2016 9:39 PM  

also this thread has got me to thinking about something else I have been thinking about in the last year or 2, why is socialism bad again? I am trying to remember all the bad things about it

never mind I think the answer is it just creates a black hole of debt that sucks the whole country down

Anonymous cheddarman April 24, 2016 9:45 PM  

When I look at the world and see all of the schemes of men,I wonder how wise are the elites? It seems as if their plans could easily unravel or be swept away by nature or unintended consequences of the plans they are trying to execute.

Anonymous mature-Craig April 24, 2016 9:55 PM  

Sanskrit-

noun
an Indo-European, Indic language, in use since c1200 b.c. as the religious and classical literary language of India.

adjective
2. Also, Sanskritic, Sanscritic. of or relating to Sanskrit.
Abbreviation: Skt.

----------------------------------------------------
British Dictionary definitions for San-skrit

Sanskrit

noun 1. an ancient language of India, the language of the Vedas, of Hinduism, and of an extensive philosophical and scientific literature dating from the beginning of the first millennium bc. It is the oldest recorded member of the Indic branch of the Indo-European family of languages; recognition of the existence of the Indo-European family arose in the 18th century from a comparison of Sanskrit with Greek and Latin. Although it is used only for religious purposes, it is one of the official languages of India

Blogger Joshua Sinistar April 24, 2016 10:09 PM  

Amusing. Dese Nutz be elitists and sheeit, huh? Like Bubba Cigar-splooge or W. Boosh or Bombhatta the teleprompter ate my brain or how about Hillarity the Old Hag from Darkseid's Apocalips? Wow, with my meager 184 IQ I feel so inferior to these renowned experts on foreign objects and ancient cliches.
The Prominent Culture Warrior and Statistical Bullshit Detector: Steve "The Poll Man" Sailer says the reason Chaz Murray is in the ideological doghouse ain't that niggers be dumb and sheeit, cause anyone who has had five minutes of exposure to the people that Evolution forgot already knows that, but that his real purpose for writing "The Bell Curve" and "Coming Apart" was to send a coded message to the fellow Nose Goblins that many White Braniacs are beginning to smell the RAT about how they are doing menial shit while pavement apes and taco dwarves get all the Prime jobs now in management next to YKW and the Satanic Chorus. Interesting. Its about time White guys wise up to the dumbass with the rat proboscis and start cleaning their rifles. We're about to have the World's Biggest Turkey Shoot right here soon boys. Nose Goblins are worth double points and automatic poon-tang dibs.

Blogger Student in Blue April 24, 2016 11:41 PM  

@kfg
In lifting sports going to failure is actually common. Squat to failure and then try to walk. Or even just stand up.

Is muscle failure necessarily the same thing as the 10-second limit you mentioned, however? I was approaching it as if it weren't.

Feral children never learn to speak any language. There is not only a genetic limit, that limit has a time component.

You have hard wired language acquisition skills until you are circa 12 years old. After that age, the circuit turns off. If you learn multiple language skills before that age, you retain the ability. If you do not, you cannot acquire the skill at a later time.

This applies to smart kids as well, it has nothing to due with overall intelligence. It's a basic genetically encoded system.

But smart kids are typically exposed (if only by self exposure) to other languages while still linguistically plastic.


Is it, then, actually a genetic switch in the brain that shuts off, or is it a subconscious pattern that gets ground in the neural pathways? The latter is almost impossible, but the former is impossible.

Blogger SciVo April 25, 2016 12:57 AM  

kurt9 wrote:Someone said something that makes sense. Housing costs (mortgages, rents) have gone up dramatically since 1995. I think this is entirely due to the Federal Reserve created bubbles and the obsession with turning everyone into a home owner by reducing lending standards even when it does not make sense for many people. The other cost that totally out of control is medical care. These two things slam the poor more than anything else.

Uh no, it hits the middle class. The lower class gets Section 8 and Medicare, and the upper class doesn't need any help.

Orcs & elves vs. men. Everyone knows that's the contest, except those that don't want to see.

Anonymous kfg April 25, 2016 1:09 AM  

"Is muscle failure necessarily the same thing as the 10-second limit you mentioned, however? I was approaching it as if it weren't."

Muscles only know contraction and relaxation. It is necessarily the same thing. The only difference between a leg press machine and a bicycle is that in a leg press machine the weight oscillates, whereas in a bicycle it moves linearly.

Other metabolic parameters such as heart rate and "wind" are stimulus responses to muscle contraction.

"Is it, then, actually a genetic switch in the brain that shuts off, or is it a subconscious pattern that gets ground in the neural pathways?"

I do not know the mechanism and I don't know if anybody does (I'll have to look into where that knowledge currently stands), but the fact that it is well established that it always happens at the same age (as do other stages of development) suggests it is not latter, which could occur over a broad range of ages.

Whether the mechanism is impossible or not, it empirically happens anyway.

There are real biological limits on performance. I note that there are people, no matter how long you give them, who cannot traverse 100 meters.

And similarly there are people who cannot learn their times tables by rote, no matter how long they work at it.

Blogger SciVo April 25, 2016 1:15 AM  

cheddarman wrote:When I look at the world and see all of the schemes of men,I wonder how wise are the elites? It seems as if their plans could easily unravel or be swept away by nature or unintended consequences of the plans they are trying to execute.

In our plutocracy, we are ruled by sophomores, wise fools that don't even know how much they don't know. Every plan that they have will produce the opposite of their intent.

Blogger SciVo April 25, 2016 1:26 AM  

kfg wrote:And similarly there are people who cannot learn their times tables by rote, no matter how long they work at it.

There are people that can't learn basic addition and subtraction -- or even if they do, can't remember it.

So then you have to re-teach it to them again. Over and over.

I know. I tried. And then I gave up. You have no idea.

Blogger duane oldsen April 25, 2016 2:32 AM  

#18

What do we do with the people?

The historic answer is a High Level Equilibrium Trap. The drive to ever more automation will be suppressed from the top down, and our... enthusiasm... for the always-new will be set aside.

To use Orwell's metaphors, the High always want a small set of Middle professionals to serve and service them, and vast ranks of the Low to truckle to them.

A place will be carved out for the impoverished Low, and the techno-innovators will be repressed. After all, that's... sustainable, no? :)

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit April 25, 2016 2:49 AM  

Free DVDs from the public library. (And books. But we can't catch 'm all. Though I try.)

And the U.S. has more public library outlets th a n McDonald's.

Maybe this is true in Europe.

Low IQ isn't the problem. Poverty isn't the problem.

Trash culture is the problem.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar April 25, 2016 4:06 AM  

Oh look a mental midget just came in. What's the matter thief? Is the Dragon getting worried? Tell your cowardly master we don't buy his culture argument. None of you would know culture if sixteen tons of it crushed you flat. Its all about race and IQ. I know all about the Terman test lie. Do not pretend to care about savages.

Blogger Akulkis April 25, 2016 5:41 AM  

"Then again, you can still break up a lot of problem solving into concrete tasks as well, say the OSI layer model..."

Oh yeah, that over-rated pile of stupidity....

Anonymous Discard April 25, 2016 5:56 AM  

If the elites don't need us, why do we need them? It's entirely possible to live a rewarding life without using the products that the elites are selling. The Amish do. Other than antibiotics, there's not an invention of the last hundred years that we couldn't easily do without.

26. Bob K. Mando: I read that book. A looooong time ago.

37. Be Not Afraid: The sweep you mention was the SAT. Through the '60s and '70s and '80s, bright White kids were plucked out of the wilds of Nebraska to be sent East for indoctrination. The capture of so many young White people has done grave damage to us. I suspect that their children are the bulk of non-Jewish SJWs.

Blogger Akulkis April 25, 2016 5:59 AM  

@43

"The elites use the lower IQ masses to destroy their intellectual competition within the middleclass. Are they intellectually superior? Or is it simply a matter of being born into crony wealth and power with the means to manipulate the masses?"

Living in a place to know a few of those....and also knowing a step-son of a friend of mine (the kid's father is from a family that literally owns and entire county in Georgia)... no, it's NOT superior intellect... it's a feeling of superiority.... And this is despite the fact that his mother had full custody, and she married a GM UAW member / army reserve NCO... he STILL has this elitist attitude, even though he STRUGGLED in college even, despite trying (and miserably failing) at engineering, and transferring to the philosophy department, which, in this day and age, is extremely NOT-rigorous. Private roman catholic university... which has become so much of an academic joke AND SJW converged (and he bought into THAT bullshit 150%).... now has over $100,000 in student loan debt.... driving for Uber.... but only after working at Starbucks for 15 months.... And yet he totally believes that after the Commie takeover happens, he's gonna be President of the Politburo or someone similarly influential, protected from the "breaking of eggs to make the omelet", and one of those who are put in control of millions of people's lives.

He couldn't even pass an introductory level digital logic course without me giving him about 6 hours / week tutoring him for a 3-credit hour class. He's smart...but about 110 IQ, but he fully believes that his IQ is around 150 or so... He's planning on doubling down and going to grad school to get ... yes, MS and PhD in ... PHILOSOPHY. This despite KNOWING that there is a surplus of professors in nearly all fields, that getting a tenured faculty position is damned near impossible due to low attrition rates...and that adjunct professors only make abut $1500 - $2000 / class per semester. And grad school credit hours are about 3x the price of undgrad credit hours...so the MS degree will be another $150,000 in student loan debt...and the PhD another $150,000 in student loan debt... all to get a degree with ZERO market value.

And no, his grandparents WON'T be bailing him out of his $100,000 debt, let alone the other $300,000 either.

Blogger Akulkis April 25, 2016 6:46 AM  

@99

"I wonder what the minimum IQ is at which an individual can successfully be drilled into becoming a soldier. That's one job that will never be automated away."

Among combat arms... infantry rifleman (11B) the low end of effectiveness before turning into a liability (in being both dead weight AND a danger to others in his own unit) my guess is the lower cut off is around 90%. This is based on observing 11Bs in a National Guard battalion (a damned good one -- often performs BETTER in theater than some regular army battalions) for 18 years.

Artillery... the gun bunnies can probably function down to about 85 ... or same for an 11C if you just have him dropping rounds in down the tube while his buddy on the other side of the tube peels and drops the charges...and of course, you don't put an 85 IQ anywhere near the Mortar Ballistic Computer or Artillery Ballistic Computer... but 85 IQ can slam rounds into an indirect fire weapon, and spin a dial to whatever the Fire Direction section tells him to spin it to. However... in the US Army, that 85 IQ guy will NOT graduate from 11C (Mortarman) or whatever the hell MOS Artillery is, because being able to operate the ballistic computer.. AND ALSO DO IT MANUALLY with slide rules, protractors and compasses is ALSO required to graduate. But in a pinch, you can put an 85 IQ guy on the tube. ... but you do want someone at least 95 IQ to be picking the rounds out of the ammo pile (wrong ammo can cause ALL sorts of problems)

Tankers... so many tankers are DUMB ASS TANKERS because they've got their heads so full of operating a cannon with a very limited ammo supply.... as it's MOVING ... that they do some pretty damned stupid shit with the vehicle that's carrying the cannon. And take them out of the vehicle, and they are TOTALLY retarded. I mean like, moving in urban terrain, on foot, like they're a bunch of Virginians at Gettysburg in Pickett's Charge. And that includes the officers who are PUTTING THEM ON LINE ABREAST, too.

The lowest IQ MOS in the army is cook. And 85 appears to be the cut off. And even then, it's damned difficult to get that 85 IQ guy through Basic Training in the first place.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar April 25, 2016 7:33 AM  

The Imperial Military is FUBAR. Both Boosh and Clinton cut deep into effectiveness for high end garbage like the Stealth Fighter and the still unworkable F-35. Bombhatta has killed the officer corps I hear with wimmens and brownies. So sad for them.
After going on a wild goose chase in the Middle East for 15 years and missing birthdays and holidays, I imagine most of the tough GIs have quit. Minorities and wimmens are upper ranks while White guys do grunt work. Dumb Fuck Stupid: FRAG CITY when it comes to combat I'm thinking. All the cool and skill is kept in the middle like the dying corporates in Crazyworld. I expect really poor planning and major confusion and bugging out by the AA Losers with cheap brass tacks. The White middle men are prime recruiting material especially National Guard who got screwed by both Boosh and Bombhatta into fighting Oceania in the Forever War.

Blogger Student in Blue April 25, 2016 10:04 AM  

@kfg
Muscles only know contraction and relaxation. It is necessarily the same thing. The only difference between a leg press machine and a bicycle is that in a leg press machine the weight oscillates, whereas in a bicycle it moves linearly.

Other metabolic parameters such as heart rate and "wind" are stimulus responses to muscle contraction.


In that case, I'd ask what the hell is stamina training if there's a hard limit to how long you can try your hardest.

I do not know the mechanism and I don't know if anybody does (I'll have to look into where that knowledge currently stands), but the fact that it is well established that it always happens at the same age (as do other stages of development) suggests it is not latter, which could occur over a broad range of ages.

I'd be interested in seeing how the data compares to puberty. It'd give evidence on whether it's a switch, or if it's just the brain finalizing neural pathways as part of brain maturation.

And the latter is essentially an answer of "genetics", but it still leaves the possibility of creating new neural pathways (i.e. learning) - unless it is quite literally impossible, and not just prohibitively timewasting, to teach an old dog new tricks.

There are real biological limits on performance. I note that there are people, no matter how long you give them, who cannot traverse 100 meters.

If you're referring to a quadriplegic, then of course. Their mental equivalents (a lobotimized person, say) were not the subject of mine or the OP's discussion however.

And similarly there are people who cannot learn their times tables by rote, no matter how long they work at it.

This does bring up something interesting, which is just how IQ relates to rote memory, if it relates at all. I'm unlearned in this particular aspect and can only make guesses.

Blogger Shimshon April 25, 2016 10:47 AM  

"This does bring up something interesting, which is just how IQ relates to rote memory, if it relates at all. I'm unlearned in this particular aspect and can only make guesses."

Having now seen low IQ up close, this is my personal observation too.

Anonymous Mr. Rational April 25, 2016 12:42 PM  

Rote memory is not a big part of IQ.  One of the examples I've seen used is the "forward digit span" test, on which Blacks and Whites score much more equally than on the "backward digit span" test.  BDS requires a lot more processing horsepower than FDS.

Anonymous kfg April 25, 2016 2:10 PM  

"I'd ask what the hell is stamina training if there's a hard limit to how long you can try your hardest."

Not anything like what you've heard from "cardiovascular fitness" experts. That entire field developed from poorly understood experimental results in the 30's, and this has been known since no later than 1970, but the whole train is fine and continues running on inertia.

The development of stamina comes mostly from:

1.Neurological adaptation
2.Selective breeding of mitochondria for robustness and population density
3.Adaptation of muscle fiber types
4. Capillary growth

In roughly that order. You can do it on any type of equipment that provides resistance to muscle contraction. The relevant parameters have nothing else do to with the type of exercise (distance running vs. weight lifting). The only things that really matter are the force of resistance and the duration of resistance.

My own metabolic training as an endurance cyclist is almost entirely done by resistance training, i.e. weight lifting. I only train on a bike to develop the specific neurological adaptations unique to cycling, i.e. skill.

And by training in this manner I set all time local course records against men in their physical prime, a third or so my age, while using equipment that was last considered cutting edge when Victoria was still alive.

Call it old age and deep knowledge beating youth. I'll have to resort to treachery soon enough though. Age brings lower hard limits, like it or not, and I'm quickly approaching an age hard limit.

And by the way, the hard limit for you maximum output is actually no more than two seconds. Sprinters use it up just getting out of the blocks.

This is also why you can produce enough force in a deadlift to clear the bar from the ground, but then stall and fail the lift. The weight didn't get any heavier, you lost power.

And I have already mentioned that a sprinter is essentially "coasting" from about the 60 yard mark to the finish, because that's how long it takes their second tank (which contains a less energetic fuel) to effectively run dry as well.

If you are at some sort of decent level of physical fitness you can walk at 3 mph or cycle at 12 mph essentially "forever," by using the least energetic (but most efficient) fuel available to you, contracting the muscle fibers that produce the least amount of force.

"I'd be interested in seeing how the data compares to puberty."

Linguistic skill plasticity goes away at 12 years old. Puberty onsets at anywhere from single digit ages to as late as the early 20's.

"If you're referring to a quadriplegic . . ."

I am not. Try phocomelia (I used to own stock in a company that produced Thalidomide - and made a good chunk of change on it by hanging onto it after it became a newt. It got better).

Or the very old.

Blogger Student in Blue April 25, 2016 4:09 PM  

@kfg
Sounds pretty much like what I've heard, in that anaerobic training can directly impact aerobic significantly.

That said, to make sure I caught the gist of what you were saying... essentially your point is that "stamina training" is nothing more than increasing the efficiency of your physical machine to turn glucose/glycogen into power, so at the same amount of effort you have greater results.

Is then, by logical extension, an increase in willpower also increasing the efficiency of your how much power you can squeeze from your body? An increase in willpower being something like having the right mental mindset and "pushing through" a set, and not subconsciously flinching away from what might be a tough or painful challenge.

Linguistic skill plasticity goes away at 12 years old. Puberty onsets at anywhere from single digit ages to as late as the early 20's.

Oh I know, which is why I was curious if the plasticity was really so discrete as to end exactly at one age, or if it tended to be more of a bell curve.

I am not. Try phocomelia (I used to own stock in a company that produced Thalidomide - and made a good chunk of change on it by hanging onto it after it became a newt. It got better).

Or the very old.


Phocomelia would be akin to the lobotimized man, in my opinion, so that doesn't change much.

Experiencing such a fortunate turnaround on your stocks is suspect however. Are you... a witch? May we burn you?

Anonymous DE-173/Code 19/Vox Nox April 25, 2016 5:12 PM  

And now they have Obamacare to withhold care to those who to costly to the elite.

Anonymous kfg April 25, 2016 5:37 PM  

" . . . essentially your point is that "stamina training" is nothing more than increasing the efficiency of your physical machine to turn glucose/glycogen into power . . ."

No, it is minimizing the use of glucose to produce power. To use the ever popular automotive analogy, glucose is like benzene fuel (including its corrosive qualities). Fat is like diesel fuel. There aren't a lot of diesel funny cars, but a diesel has won Le Mans.

"Is then, by logical extension, an increase in willpower also increasing the efficiency of your how much power you can squeeze from your body?"

Efficiency is mostly a mitochondrial and patterning function. The proper use of fuel and proper mechanical motion. Willpower has an effect on total power you can squeeze from your body, which comes at an efficiency cost. But rather than willpower, the main limit is psychosomatic. That is to say it's a brain function. Willpower and morale are part of the brain function, but operate in a feedback loop with other brain functions. For instance, your brain monitors core temperature and will weaken the output of your muscles to prevent core temperature from rising too high. Which will have an effect on your perception of willpower.

But willpower can adapt the mind to tolerating slightly higher core temperatures.

Range of motion is similar. If I were to knock you out you would become a rag doll, with a range of motion limited only by the mechanical limits of your skeleton and ligaments, as your muscles are fully relaxed. Regain consciousness and your range of motion suddenly becomes limited by your muscles. The muscles are not the limit, the brain controls how much it will allow the muscles to relax. You don't stretch muscles, you adapt the brain into allowing them to relax further.

" . . .and not subconsciously flinching away from what might be a tough or painful challenge."

I'll buy that way of putting it. The toughness and pain (exertion pain, not "ouch" pain) is actually produced by the brain in order to force you to back off. It has an "idea" of what you are capable of doing without injury and enforces that idea by backfeeding unpleasant sensations, as well as actually limiting metabolic functions directly. Part of training is adapting your brain to a new idea.

"Phocomelia would be akin to the lobotimized man, in my opinion . . ."

If the cause is environmental trauma, such as Thalidomide, I agree. If it is genetic I do not. Then it is the degenerate case of a hard, genetic limitation.

And the genetic state of the brain would be similar. Some people just can't think.

Or we could look to other species. Do you accept that you aren't going to teach a porcupine to count to 100, because it simply doesn't have the capacity? Or do you really think it just takes more time because it thinks "slow"?

"May we burn you?"

Only if I weigh the same as a duck.

Blogger Student in Blue April 26, 2016 10:22 AM  

@kfg
I'll eventually start forgetting to check this, but I'd be interested in continuing this discussion. Would you care to email me?

Anonymous Rob April 29, 2016 6:05 PM  

>> But the technofeudalism of the future doesn't appear likely to require peasants for anything. <<

Among the highest of the political classes there seems to be a strange dichotomy between future-orientation and present-orientation. They do seem to make plans for how they want to restructure society to suit their whims, but then compromise them with the heavy weight they give to the exigencies of maintaining power. They're also prone to group-think, so once someone high-ranking buys into a bad idea, they all do.

I say their technofeudalism crashes and burns. I don't think we're close enough to the threshold of self-maintaining technology, and I don't think anyone has a viable plan for replacing petroleum as a primary industrial fuel source. Maybe some day runaway technology becomes a problem, but probably not tomorrow.

So then they will be stuck with decaying nuclear power plants and failing hydroelectric dams, and not enough engineers and technicians to maintain them much less safely decommission them. This is already starting to happen. There seem to be a lot of ticking time bombs like these waiting to go off.

The problem for the rest of us is not to die out first.

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