ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2016 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Sunday, May 08, 2016

America is not an idea

And Americans are not proposition people:
The concept of American Exceptionalism is one that on its face would seem to be a healthy one, which is what makes it so pernicious. In practice, American Exceptionalism is a favourite idea of the Glenn Beck crowd. Often what this belief comes down to is that the rules that apply to every country on the planet don't apply to America, because there's a piece of paper with ink on it in Washington that claims so.

America isn't bound by blood like every other nation on the planet. Ethnicity and race may matter everywhere from England to China, but not in America. America, you see, is an exception to these rules, because America was a country created by ideas put forward by the founders. America is a proposition nation, they will tell you. Ideas built America.

This seems to me to be quite the concept! I wonder what it would look like to see Liberty and Equality running around Boston in 1750. How would the Declaration of Independence have managed to push further and further westward, trekking through miles of dense forest, weathering the rain and the snow and the hail, civilizing what was in in effect barren wilderness? What a sight it would be to see ideas clearing forest, laying down railroads, and building canals! I can't say I have ever seen anything so incredible, but perhaps I would if I took a trip to the propositional nation to the south of me.

Yet, somehow, I doubt it. What mainstream conservatives have largely forgotten is that ideas can shape societies and peoples, but they don't create them.
It would have been vastly preferable if the Founding Fathers had stuck to the original term - the Rights of Englishmen - rather than trying to make them sound universal for the purposes of rhetoric.

Just to give one example, those who don't believe in the existence of a Creator God cannot possibly appeal to unalienable rights that stem from Him.

Labels: , ,

116 Comments:

Anonymous Nxx May 08, 2016 3:51 PM  

What's hilarious is that the propositional nation snowjob is based on the Declaration of Independence, a document of no legal value.

The document which does have legal value, the US Constitution, says the US is constituted to benefit the founder's posterity.

It takes the most brazen olympic level shamelessness to morph "our posterity" from meaning white Englishmen to meaning Cambodian immigrants.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore May 08, 2016 3:52 PM  

I'll dissent gently. The problem, in my opinion, is what the Founding Fathers created. We should have stuck with the Articles because it allowed for the States to have sovereignty, and national government was dependent upon the States. The Founding Fathers formed a government where the States were dependent upon national government. This "unitary governance" is used by Neo-Cons and SJWs to promote their policies. And the idea of a "critical period" is a myth.

Anonymous VFM #6306 May 08, 2016 4:00 PM  

The English have abandoned England; I don't think it matters what their papers said, if the hearts of their men were so fleeting.

Blogger Cecil Henry May 08, 2016 4:01 PM  

Sure..... In other words you are justifying White Genocide.

You know: Africa for Africans, Asia for Asians, White countries for Everyone IS White Genocide.

The West including America is a culture created by a specific people and it will be destroyed if that people is dispossessed.

Europeans everywhere have the self-evident right to secure their homelands for themselves, without regard to the claims others make upon it.

The Genocidal Assumptions of 'Diversity' and Proposition nations:

Everywhere that is currently White in any proportion or degree, should be getting less White from here on out. Indefinitely.

You name it: it could be Cambridge, Rotterham, Berlin, Toronto, Denver, Lillehammer. If there's White people there now, at all, the premise is 'there had better be fewer White people there both proportionately and absolutely in 10 years time then there are now.

What could be more blatantly Genocidal and evil than that?

Some proposition.

Blogger Michael Maier May 08, 2016 4:03 PM  

The West is unsuited for anyone but Westerners.

Further: what innovation has come from anywhere else in the last 200 years? I am sure there must be something but I am having a tough time thinking of any.

Anonymous Eduardo May 08, 2016 4:05 PM  

Al

I think it is pretty clear that the Founders and the Colonies obviously thought of each other as independent. The USA changed a lot to the point that the idea that it was several States that came willingly together to form a country disappeared. It became the Unites States Under Federal Government of North America

USUFGNA For short.

Actually you people became just like everybody else, welcome to the club esse!

Yours truely, Teddy from the former Unites States of Brazil

Anonymous Eduardo May 08, 2016 4:12 PM  

Well Japan comes to mind A LOT.

India done a lot a science lately, especially physics. Intel is there.

Africa revolutionized genocide

Arabs have great food... Yeah I went there, I had no choice XD.

Blogger Lovekraft May 08, 2016 4:18 PM  

Leftists are trying to reframe the debate to make conservatives defend their desire to simply be free from the lying, anti-Christian media, courts, politicians etc.

What should be happening is the sjws defending their disastrous policies and ideologies, but since they always lie and double down, this won't happen.

But in the absence of this, I am not going to debate any establishment shill on whether my demands fail to meet PC standards. They had the opportunity and preferred to suck up to their ilk while we were being hammered on numerous fronts: employment, culture, legal system etc.

Blogger RobertT May 08, 2016 4:20 PM  

Makes sense. My heritage is English Saxon, Viking and a couple of American Indians thrown in for flavor. There aren't many of us left.

Anonymous Eduardo May 08, 2016 4:28 PM  

Vox

Something is bothering me. How much English blood you have? You seem rather passionate about English heritage but... You don't seem all that English. What gives? Are you not included in the Civilizational people?

I mean explain to me man, because I am feeling a conflict...

Blogger Salt May 08, 2016 4:29 PM  

"Putin offering disillusioned Britons FREE LAND to resettle in Russia"

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/668073/Vladimir-Putin-offers-disillusioned-British-citizens-free-land-in-Russia

Good timing, Vlad.

Blogger J Melcher May 08, 2016 4:37 PM  

I will join in the gentle dissent; beginning with calling to distinguish the meaning of the proposition. It seems to me that the notion of "American Exceptionalism" is less Bismarck's version (That God made special providence for fools, drunks, and the United States) and more that the Laws of Nature and Nature's God are revealed at the margins, the exceptional cases. So, the "natural law" that some men are born brutes to be harnessed while others are born booted and spurred is revealed to be a lie, not a law, because of English/American exceptions put that proposition to the test. The exception proves (tests, defines the limits of) the rule. "No Dogs -- except seeing-eye dogs" means no dogs carried, no dogs that monitor the epileptic, no dogs sniffing for bombs ... Unless the dog is guiding the blind: no dog.

Anonymous #8601 Jean Valjean May 08, 2016 4:42 PM  

@2 The English have abandoned England.

Demography is destiny

Blogger CM May 08, 2016 5:00 PM  

You know: Africa for Africans, Asia for Asians, White countries for Everyone IS White Genocide.

A friend of mine doesn't have a problem with diversity because he sees at some point everyone will be the same. He talks about white privelege being that white is dominant (not superior) and everyone else will end up white... that other ethnicities will be watered down and usurped into white civilization.

His defense of this position was white hispanics (Spanish bred) vs mestizos and vanished NA tribes (i don't know if mine exists and I know his PR ancestors are extinct).

It was a weird conversation and he wasn't at all concerned or ashamed or angered at the idea that his descendants would be foreigners to his ancestors.

Blogger VD May 08, 2016 5:12 PM  

Something is bothering me. How much English blood you have? You seem rather passionate about English heritage but... You don't seem all that English. What gives? Are you not included in the Civilizational people?

First, it's not your business. Second, has it EVER occurred to you that I am not the sort of individual who argues for the truth of a position on the basis of what is, or might be, best for me personally?

The Rights of Englishmen being for the English, and not for the Bantu, the Eskimo, or the Israeli, and the Choosing of Jehovah being for the Jew and not the Japanese, are what they are regardless of what I am.

Blogger Cataline Sergius May 08, 2016 5:18 PM  

The English have abandoned England.

Not the first time it's happened there.

I found an intriguing set of maps covering the genetic overlay of the historic counties of Great Britain.

600 AD

Times change empires fall and a completely disastrous immigration policy is adopted. Hoping that the Saxons would do the work that Romanized Britains wouldn't. German tribes are invited in purely as a temporary measure. Multiculturalism ho!

(*next map*)

Next slide. Romanized Britain has been exterminated. The Romano-Britains have been kicked out of their own house by the people they invited in. Meet Anglo-Saxon England.


Although the final genetic overlay map is what I found quite fascinating.

Anonymous BGKB May 08, 2016 5:19 PM  

CM tell your friend that WHITE PRIVILEGE IS EVOLUTION THAT'S WHY ASIANS HAVE IT ALSO. The only thing that can be watered down is IQ, for the benefit of running faster and being more resilient to malaria without Whitey's meds. Tell him he is less manly than BigGayKoranBurner. If I live to be as old as my grandfathers I had better be ready for no running water in the US if trends continue.

Further: what innovation has come from anywhere else in the last 200 years?

The last big thing invented by someone else was gunpowder by Asians a millennia ago.

Arabs have great food... Yeah I went there, I had no choice XD.

Bahrain and Kuwait sure didn't. The best part about them was a gold merchant who screwed up the exchange rate for dollars.

Blogger Michael Maier May 08, 2016 5:24 PM  

14. VD May 08, 2016 5:12 PM
Something is bothering me. How much English blood you have? You seem rather passionate about English heritage but... You don't seem all that English. What gives? Are you not included in the Civilizational people?

First, it's not your business. Second, has it EVER occurred to you that I am not the sort of individual who argues for the truth of a position on the basis of what is, or might be, best for me personally?


Wait wait wait... you mean PRINCIPLES? I don't believe it for a second.

But seriously, what is with so many in this world that are surprised by such a thing?

Blogger Michael Maier May 08, 2016 5:27 PM  


Arabs have great food... Yeah I went there, I had no choice XD.


But their meat is sacrificed to Satan so .... can't eat in those places.

Damn shame, they use some really interesting ingredients and flavours.

Blogger FrankNorman May 08, 2016 5:42 PM  

That the "Propositional Nation" thing is a scam can easily be shown - do its proponents argue that said country should only be for those who accept the propositions?
Or do wave their slogan around simply to confuse people?

Blogger Giuseppe The Kurgan May 08, 2016 5:48 PM  

TOTALLY OT but...ALWAYS OT:
I just found out by randomness that Vox's Wikipedia page seems to be almost...honest???
What's happened?
Are the SJWs in full retreat?

Blogger J.M. May 08, 2016 5:54 PM  

VD, not being contentious but I have a question: if the rights described in the U.S. constitution are for Englishmen, how come the Englishmen (I am talking about whites native from the British Isle not the recent imports from Africa, the Caribbean or even EE) that remained there built a society far less free and democratic than anything in Europe at this moment (Yes means yes hasn't arrived at the mainland however seems to be the rage in England who is following the footsteps of the leader of the Anglo-sphere the U.S.) where political correctness reigns supreme and whose population (the whites) support massive disarmament of the citizenry unlike their "cousins" in the States?

The same can be said of Australians, Kiwis and Canadians whose societies are far less free than the U.S., even though they are of purer English stock than U.S., a country where most whites are not even of English descent or are at best a mix of English with Scottish, Irish, Germans, Dutch and many others.

My point is that at first glance the data points to mixed results that don't support your theory that white immigration ruined the U.S., at least not the immigration from 1800s and early 1900 except in some cases (certain "Eastern Europeans" who fashioned themselves as the chosen ones among others). If I am right, the reasons for decline are to be found elsewhere (abandonment of Christianity, the very variety of Christianity practiced in the Anglo-sphere which has more holes than a swiss Cheese..), of course the importation of millions makes things much worse.

Blogger LP9 Forever Solidified in Gold! Rin Integra S.I.G. May 08, 2016 6:05 PM  

The concept of American Exceptionalism has greatly faded and proves problematic due to the wars and the end of the middle class, American Exceptionalism is painful to embrace.

We are slaves or beholden to the central banks with insane monetary policy that is set against the people. utterly foolish, failed Keynesian econ, cultural decline and a seriously sick nation.

Read a great term at Chateau Heartiste, Diversitopia.

7 excellent final paragraph, we don't have time for PC, another dead end to debate the point with the boomer who once chanted, 'down with western civ.' Ok boomers, now your mil'lens are very open to doctor assisted suicide to cleanse what they want to care for, pay for or think of.

Always recall SJW don't want you to have anything and hate beauty and success.

Semi random but current event WV OT: Something is troubling WV'ians, beyond the primary, which again I am not allowed to vote in no matter my party, its docs/a name issue. We in WV want route 22, 7 and the bridges bordering OH all shut down and locked down. We are aware of the problems here and police cannot endure it anymore, they turn away or pull over OH and PA drivers and tell them to stay out for a host of omitted reasons depending upon what they find and dont want to deal with. WV's leadership doesn't care for PA and OH's leadership.

Meanwhile its total truth that people around here vote in OH, PA and WV with a mere switch of a name or a surname. It's not funny.

WV Medicaid mailed a form in summary stated, we cannot pay or cover every visit but keep on seeing patients and we'll pay you later. Small business doctor offices cannot survive this way.

Anonymous #8601 Jean Valjean May 08, 2016 6:09 PM  

@15 CS

Thanks for the link. Great maps. The history of Britain is fascinating, and I'm not talking about Royal hats.

Blogger the bandit May 08, 2016 6:12 PM  

@21 You have to remember that Americans were either run out / self-selected out of the general population of Englishmen on a large account for their continued belief in the Rights of Englishmen.

As for your alternative hypothesis, "why not both?"

Blogger LP9 Forever Solidified in Gold! Rin Integra S.I.G. May 08, 2016 6:12 PM  

Edit: American E is like salt to a wound, when the day to day annoyances here make it complex to operate, pay for, American Exceptionalism is very lost on the generations after baby boomers, cucks, libs talking about a living doc and neocons.

How many times has Vox explained the magic dirt theory and it doesn't sink in. All many of us are left with is the Lord and I guess some kind of acknowledgement to our past heritage while the family some they thought they had rejects us and alienates with such great pride while those pricks have both feet in the grave.

Blogger Will Brown May 08, 2016 6:14 PM  

"... those who don't believe in the existence of a Creator God cannot possibly appeal to unalienable rights that stem from Him."

We don't, many of us refer to "inherent rights" as being a fundamental component of the human condition, like the ability to think intuitively is another inherent component of a human being. Inherent rights are those rights that are universal to all human beings (they possess them, irrespective of their opportunity to exercise them), that interactively demarcate the boundaries between individuals. An inability to conclusively prove the cause of origin of a thing does not negate the existence of that thing, nor anyone's ability to acknowledge its existence.

Blogger Will Brown May 08, 2016 6:15 PM  

"... those who don't believe in the existence of a Creator God cannot possibly appeal to unalienable rights that stem from Him."

We don't, many of us refer to "inherent rights" as being a fundamental component of the human condition, like the ability to think intuitively is another inherent component of a human being. Inherent rights are those rights that are universal to all human beings (they possess them, irrespective of their opportunity to exercise them), that interactively demarcate the boundaries between individuals. An inability to conclusively prove the cause of origin of a thing does not negate the existence of that thing, nor anyone's ability to acknowledge its existence.

Blogger Chris Mallory May 08, 2016 6:37 PM  

Sorry, @21, we would have been better off to close the borders entirely in 1800. The hordes of Irish and Germans that arrived here in the 1840's brought destruction to the freedoms Americans once had.

Blogger Aeoli Pera May 08, 2016 6:37 PM  

Proposing isn't how you make people, it's how you get her dad's permission to make people.

Blogger Nick S May 08, 2016 6:40 PM  

Inherent rights are those rights that are universal to all human beings (they possess them, irrespective of their opportunity to exercise them)

Who gets to decide what those rights are and what metrics justify their conclusions as objectively true?

Blogger Aeoli Pera May 08, 2016 6:43 PM  

Giuseppe The Kurgan wrote:TOTALLY OT but...ALWAYS OT:

I just found out by randomness that Vox's Wikipedia page seems to be almost...honest???

What's happened?

Are the SJWs in full retreat?


Color me surprised as well. For once in my life, I'll keep the implications to myself.

Blogger tz May 08, 2016 6:46 PM  

The problem the founding father's encountered is King George III would have said they had all the rights of Englishmen, so the Revolution itself would be a mere rebellion against the very system of law they said they would be endorsing.

Stephen Molyneux notes only Western Civilization sought universals (and the downfall is others don't think so). So what happened with both the Declaration and Constitution is an appeal to a higher law - ultimately Natural law (God, conscience, reason) of which the RoE was based and violated in its form on the continent, and by the states under the Articles, though the Constitution was more implementation (and Bill of Rights - somehow they all thought those were the rights of Englishmen, but it never appeared in England).

As to the "Creator God", at the time the most atheist position was Deism, and you could have substituted passages to argue pure natural law, but they would be long and abstruse.

But that is the distinction. And it is not DNA - England spread its DNA across the empire. Rights of Englishmen didn't follow, and didn't even really appear in England because it was the nonconformists who left England and came here and took the culture with the DNA.

Let me potentially concede one point - when we say "DNA" we typically mean genetic instead of epigenetic. It is possible the most K-selected group along the r/K continuum came here, so the active genes were different.

But even say it is purely propositional. If you had the original schools, you would have the biblical McGuffey's readers, most would know the founding documents (including the Federalist Papers and the Anti-federalist arguments) long before High School, many would find the culture inculcated if not the pre-history (England, the Magna Charta, Civil War, Cromwell, Levelers, pushing the nonconformists to the colonies) which is an Old Testament whose context illuminates the New Testament of the Declaration and Constitution, and the interim articles.

An 8th grader then would know more than a graduate student today about the "proposition". This is one of the reasons I'm in complete agreement that recent immigrants could at best pantomime being American, and only grandchildren might be fully American, but are more likely something utterly foreign - many purebloods descended from pre-Lincoln America aren't Americans in this sense.

Even here in Wyoming which should be the easiest Microcosm for me to integrate into. One thing I will say is I'm closer than Liz Cheney who is the GOPe candidate for rep. (Rex Rammell is a true native). Even so, every few weeks I find some cultural bit that I've not been assimilated to.

The other problem with the "proposition" is there is filtering of the desired parts and the rejection of those undesired parts. The socialism and progressivism? Are they parts? Are those who vote for such American? Should they, although "citizens" be deported, exiled, or executed for treason? Messy? Yes, but as Vox pointed out long ago, a purely propositional nation would need to police acts on a level that would make Mao blush, and that isn't even thoughts. The libertarian Utopias sans uniform culture would have the same problem.

An invading caliphate would need to be fought, but someone needs to do the fighting. And abstract principle is usually not worth one's lifeblood, and has difficulty even with sweat, while "duty" tends to be anathema to anarchists.

Half OT: Europe will be powerless soon:
Apparently they banned fossil fuel cars, but won't have the electric capacity (especially "green") to power EVs

Blogger tz May 08, 2016 6:51 PM  

Remember, Lucifer only wanted diversity, where angels and demons could live together and he could be "tolerated" as God himself.

Blogger Aeoli Pera May 08, 2016 6:52 PM  

CM wrote:You know: Africa for Africans, Asia for Asians, White countries for Everyone IS White Genocide.

A friend of mine doesn't have a problem with diversity because he sees at some point everyone will be the same. He talks about white privelege being that white is dominant (not superior) and everyone else will end up white... that other ethnicities will be watered down and usurped into white civilization.


He seems like a person of...shall we say "abstract persuasion". Try pointing out that this is an economic impossibility because it would require constant, massive immigration by a borderless world government. Otherwise ecological niches will sprout up with specific genetic traits that are particularly dominant in that niche. E.g. Cold adaptability.

It was a weird conversation and he wasn't at all concerned or ashamed or angered at the idea that his descendants would be foreigners to his ancestors.

Combine biological altruism, material comfort, and ideological cuckoldry and this is what you get.

Blogger The Hammer May 08, 2016 6:52 PM  

Just finished a book, "American Nations", about 10 of the North American nations created by Europeans. The liberal multiculturalist author can't hide the historical reality that only a minority ever went for the proposition nation and magic dirt myths. Even the Yankees "nation" that only later started becoming multiethnic centuries into its existence saw the stupidity of the magic dirt theory.

The two quotes below on those subjects are from his chapter on historical and present-day immigration. At the end, he even predicts because of increasing Mexican immigration in the Southwest, they will probably form their own nation-state with the Northern Mexican provinces by 2100 because of cultural similarities. Obviously the predicted year is too late.

"By contrast, New Netherland and the Midlands had been explicitly multicultural since their foundation and so were placed where it was viewed as normal for people of many languages, religions, and cultures to live side by side...

Cultural diversity was entirely in keeping with the Midlander worldview. For both these nations, being "American" had nothing to do with one's ethnicity, religion, or language but rather was a spirit or state of mind. When pundits speak today of America always having been multicultural, multiethnic, and multilingual, they're really referring to New Netherland and the Midlands. In these nations it's almost impossible to describe immigrant groups as having unculturated, as it's not clear what they would be acculturating, beyond an ethic of toleration, individual achievement (in New Netherland) and, possibly, the use of English. The American tradition of cultural pluralism originates in the traditions of these two nations."

"Immigrants presented additional challenges. 'A foreign people, born and bred and dwarfed under the despotisms of the Old World, cannot be transformed into the full stature of American citizens merely by a voyage across the Atlantic, or by subscribing the oath of naturalization,' Horace Mann, the Yankee reformer widely credited as 'the father of America public education,' told fellow educators in 1845... By 1914 that mission had been expanded to include adult immigrants, who were offered free evening classes in English, mathematics, US history, and 'hygiene and good behavior.' "

Blogger Harsh May 08, 2016 6:58 PM  

Arabs have great food... Yeah I went there, I had no choice XD.

But their meat is sacrificed to Satan so .... can't eat in those places.

Reminds me that the Sikhs are forbidden to eat halal meat. Those guys are so badass...

Blogger tz May 08, 2016 6:59 PM  

They might be giants!
Fe Fi fo fum, I smell the blood of an englishman!
Has anyone else noted the imperfection of rhyme?
Gee, GIGO Gum - Bad choose.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr May 08, 2016 6:59 PM  

I have to partly disagree with Vox. I think the United States is defined by a distinct culture and mindset. Any proposition is a subset of this. Problems with immigrants stem from their inability or unwillingness to absorb that culture and mindset.

A nation is more than a common gene pool.

Blogger Harsh May 08, 2016 7:03 PM  

I think the United States is defined by a distinct culture and mindset.

Which came first, the gene or the culture?

Anonymous ZFG May 08, 2016 7:22 PM  

"Caelum non animum mutant qui trans mare currunt."

“They change their sky, not their souls, who cross the sea.”

- Horace

Anonymous #8601 Jean Valjean May 08, 2016 7:27 PM  

Anyone who belongs to Trump Nation is family to me.

Anonymous Nathan May 08, 2016 7:27 PM  

"Just to give one example, those who don't believe in the existence of a Creator God cannot possibly appeal to unalienable rights that stem from Him."

The idea that any rights might be inalienable and Stem from Him is even dumber than non believers championing God given rights.

If one thing is sure it's that those rights accruing to man by virtue of his humanity are those the vast majority of a people agree ought to. It's a simple as that.

Anonymous Nathan May 08, 2016 7:30 PM  

"The West is unsuited for anyone but Westerners."

Define "Westerner"

Blogger John Wright May 08, 2016 7:41 PM  

"The concept of American Exceptionalism is one that on its face would seem to be a healthy one, which is what makes it so pernicious."

Please note the rhetorical techniques being used here:

the statement that American exceptionalism seems healthy but is pernicious is a setup for a strawman, where the writer will tell you what the idea 'really' means, not what you have thought it was your whole life.

The writer wisely avoids saying directly that the ideas of liberty and equality (which are the real source of America's exceptional success) are pernicious.

"In practice, American Exceptionalism is a favourite idea of the Glenn Beck crowd."

I suppose this jab is meant for those who regard Glenn Beck listeners as some sort of inferior beings, this sneer would have a jab.

Whether they are inferior or superior, it is an argumentum ad hominem, urging the reader to believe an idea false (and idea, again, the writer wisely has not yet identified) on the sole grounds than another man presumed to be worthy of disdain thinks it true.

"Often what this belief comes down to is that the rules that apply to every country on the planet don't apply to America, because there's a piece of paper with ink on it in Washington that claims so."

The rhetorical tactic involved here is twofold:

first, the absurd and false assumption that the American system, being the only system on the face of the earth which actually takes the reality of human beings, both their strength and shortcomings alike, somehow fails to take that reality into account.

It is a comment breathtaking in its insolence: a balloonist saying that moonrockets do not take the principles of rocketry into account. The proper answer is "Fool, we went to the moon. The question you should be asking is how we did it."

Likewise here. Is America, the freest, happiest, most inventive, greatest and most powerful nation in the history of the globe supposed to look to other, presumably more successful nations to see the rules to which they adhere for their more modest successes, such as, say, Ireland or Lapland or North Korea? Really?

In reality, the equality of rights and the limitations on government built into the American federal system abides by two rules of human nature all other government forms at their peril ignore: first, the rule that all man are sinners,including the alleged elite, hence no one is born higher rank than another. Second, which issues from the first, that no one can be trusted with power uncurtailed by checks and balances.

The second rhetorical trick here is a strawman argument, a simple bait-and-switch: "Ho! You don't believe in the law of gravity just because some Wop named Galileo wrote it down on some moldy old bit of paper in Italy called 'Dialogues Concerning Two New Sciences' do you?"

Well, obviously the fact that someone wrote the truth down does not make it true, any more than it makes it false.

No one believes it solely because it is written down, but because we hold these truths to be self evident.

The rest of the column proceeds in like manner, and is hardly worth the time needed to fisk.

The flaws and fallacies are too obvious to need refuting. It is merely illogical, attacks against shadows, too craven to come to grips with the central ideal that has made America a great nation.

continued below

Blogger John Wright May 08, 2016 7:41 PM  

continued from above

The whole idea of nation-states based on bloodline is a recent innovation, something invented by Protestant heretics in the Sixteenth Century. Real European thought and greatness was established in the centuries before that, and this idolatrous worship of nations and national leaders, kings and fuhrers, was a retardation on Europe's growth.

If you want to say multi-ethnic nation-states never survive, sure, granted. But the fault there is that nation-states are based on ethnicity, and hence can have only one: the Commonwealth of the Roman Republic and every form of government before and after the Reformation ideal of the nation-state has not had this problem. The Empire held together for centuries with two languages, Greek and Latin.

This approach is used by all subversive writers. They want the Americans to surrender our system and become more like the losers overseas, in allegedly admirable places like socialist England, or racially pure Japan, without pointing out that those nations are merely the sad by-products of building a nation based on fictional and false rules that govern man and politics: the greatest fiction of which is that some men are born with spurs on their heels and others with saddles on their backs.

All I can say, as a Virginian, is that if y'all want to come take our American rights, equality, liberty, and system of government, and way of life away: Molon Labe. My flag says the rest: Sic Semper Tyrannis.


Blogger Cataline Sergius May 08, 2016 7:44 PM  

Which came first, the gene or the culture?

The genetic standpoint is interesting. There is strong selective pressure against being the kind of guy that will drop everything. Travel thousands of miles over the ocean and thousands more on land just for a chance to try and make your fortune.

In the old country, the first nail that pops up was the first to get hammered down. The guys with the Give Me Liberty never really were more than .05% in any given population.

Here, it's closer to 40%. Which has lead to our unique but damn near useless right wing political culture.

Trying to explain Libertarianism to a European leftist is almost impossible because they have no frame of reference for it. It's like describing Blue to a blind man.

Blogger tz May 08, 2016 8:10 PM  

@44 "In practice, American Exceptionalism is a favourite idea of the Glenn Beck crowd."

I suppose this jab is meant for those who regard Glenn Beck listeners as some sort of inferior beings, this sneer would have a jab.

Whether they are inferior or superior, it is an argumentum ad hominem, urging the reader to believe an idea false (and idea, again, the writer wisely has not yet identified) on the sole grounds than another man presumed to be worthy of disdain thinks it true.


You hear no difference between Bach and Mozart and Schoenberg or Stravinsky (rite of Spring)?

Have you been reading "The Green Book"?

Likewise here. Is America, the freest, happiest, most inventive, greatest and most powerful nation in the history of the globe supposed to look to other, presumably more successful nations to see the rules to which they adhere for their more modest successes, such as, say, Ireland or Lapland or North Korea? Really?

Not to cause tense-ion, "is" or "was"?

Actually the rhetorical trick is more subtle. To say that the "checks and balances" are sufficient to constrain fallen man and the corruption which occurs from the quest for power, avarice and pride together, often accompanied by envy. The entire history of the USA has been the attempt to bypass or eviscerate those checks and balances (starting with Hamilton, mostly complete with Lincoln).

But a more alarming problem presents itself along with a paradox. As William Lind and Martin VanCreveld noted, the modern "Nation State" dates from the treaty of Westphalia, and is currently dissolving into 4GW entities. Advocating a modern innovation has a problem. But the more critical question is whether you try to keep the states (as Lind advocates) or let them dissolve.

Blogger Michael Maier May 08, 2016 8:14 PM  

43. Nathan May 08, 2016 7:30 PM
"The West is unsuited for anyone but Westerners."

Define "Westerner"


Christian Europe. The ones under siege by the Satanic Muslims and hordes of savages

Blogger Michael Maier May 08, 2016 8:16 PM  

@ John Wright: Do you truly believe the Founding Fathers would have been fine with importing Muslims?

Blogger Phillip George May 08, 2016 8:17 PM  

first, the rule that all man are sinners

and the first corollary of the first rule is all men need a Saviour. Not just any saviour but the Saviour.

Hence was Europe built. With all its good bad and ugly divergences from Rule Number 1.

The whole thing has been replaced not with an actual Universal Human Rights declaration but a statement that all men are already right. You have the right to live and die is nearer the truth. God was exceptionally good at demonstrating death. So good everyone takes it now for self evident fact. Death, heat death, entropy is the most certain bits of empiricism.

The only universal brotherhood of man is all men are sinners in need of the Saviour. It works as well as God demonstrated death without parallel in demonstrations. It works better than gravity.

There is no Way out but Jesus. The Cathedrals of Europa are as certain a testimony of history as is Saudi Arabia's perfected lack of them. How to fix the world? Begin at your bathroom mirror.

History happened one way. It has one solution. Jesus was who He said He is or wasn't. A universal 'brotherhood' can't be based on a universal set of lies. The claims of Koran and Bible are mutually exclusive. The claims of scientism and Bible are mutually exclusive.

Where a set of fraudulent documentary claims exist a decision has to be made. You can no more marry Christianity to Koranic texts than you can marry man to man or Christianity to humanism. The USA didn't exist in some historical void. What was unsaid through oversight can be said today.

The details of exactly what you think matter very much. It is the exact opposite of what 'tolerance' and 'inclusion' is being used to do, which is, simply your eradication.

Anonymous Nathan. May 08, 2016 8:19 PM  

So, the Christian from Nigeria that emigrated a decade ago but gets mistaken for a Muslim today?

I realize you would like to live in 1655, but it's not going to happen.

Blogger tz May 08, 2016 8:28 PM  

@44 As I have never had the urge to push my face into a bowl of Cheetos, at this point (which was not so true months ago) when Glenn Beck advocates something, I immediately recheck my premises.

As to American Exceptionalism, also realize part of that which Beck advocates involves Israel as the descendents of Abraham and lots of Dispensationalist theology. They are tied. Along with Cruz' Dominionism (I think Gary North is another).

One of the worst parts of the discourse (or lack thereof) today is that words are adopted, adapted, perverted, or other worse things that Humpty Dumpty wouldn't do if he were to actually rape the language (Unequally yolked?).

Glenn Beck does mean something by "American Exceptionalism". I might agree with a small fraction. But he then takes it to an extend and for ends I must reject.

But ought I then call it by the words he has perverted?

Blogger tz May 08, 2016 8:32 PM  

@48 Cowboy, even if it is less technically accurate, it is more culturally so.

@50 Necessary but not sufficient. You can be saved but still sin, be tempted, and cause much evil even to the point of backsliding and even do grave evils when you think you are doing good. Better a fallen man who knows he is a sinner and doubts the righteousness of every action than one saved who thinks he is "always saved".

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler May 08, 2016 8:32 PM  

America was the first Masonic republic. America is firmly rooted in the Enlightenment which makes it a propositional country.

Quote: The point is that America wears two crowns:

One unquestionably based on the work and influence of the Masonic Lodge, and one based on the work and faith of Christian men and women. To say America has had a Christian founding is true, but it’s not entirely accurate. To say America has been guided by secret societies is also true, but doesn’t portray the whole story either.

In facing this dilemma over America’s heritage, we need to realize that we are dealing with a uniquely American phenomenon. As a country try, the U.S. is still relatively young, and the nation is currently undergoing a cultural clash, which brings to the forefront a range of emotions, arguments, and counter-arguments.


Founding Fathers, Christians or Masons

The "Novus Ordo" phrase on the seal of the US is prove positive of its Enlightenment/Masonic pedigree. It was and is the seat of world revolution and always will be. America has always had a strong progressive streak, from the Puritans on.

Blogger Josh May 08, 2016 8:47 PM  

Wheeler, why don't you move back to Greece?

Anonymous EH May 08, 2016 8:52 PM  

JW is ranting. "Exceptionalism" is indeed used in two incompatible meanings: "great" and "not subject to rules". America is indeed its people, the posterity of those here in colonial times.

It is odd how the first JW post, 44, is all about how the US is the best nation-state ever, while the second says the whole idea of nation-states is a Protestant plot, and we should embrace empire, presumably under the authority of the monarch of the Vatican.

Just as troubling is his seeming to endorse egalitarianism, that people are born equal, as the central proposition of our proposition empire. His assertion: "the absurd and false assumption that the American system, being the only system on the face of the earth which actually takes the reality of human beings, both their strength and shortcomings alike, somehow fails to take that reality into account." is such utter and obvious nonsense, offered without even a shred of purported support, that it requires no further comment. It is, of course difficult to reconcile with his other assertion: "all man are sinners,including the alleged elite, hence no one is born higher rank than another", which first assumes his religion should be the basis of the state, which is against the constitutional principle that the US should not have an established religion, second it doesn't even make sense on its own terms. Assuming all men are sinners, still that does not make them equal. Nor would the Church have endorsed that idea in the past, rather it supported the idea of hereditary aristocracy and monarchy.

People are born with different genes, hence different abilities and characters, and thus different potential worths to their society. Their future worth can be estimated quite a bit better by looking at the characteristics of the parents than it can by assuming everyone to be equal. Treating unequal people as being equal is unjust, preferring the worse to the better is perverse. Yet that is what the US government and its vassal governments do in affirmative action, elections, and many other ways.

Anonymous Random American May 08, 2016 8:54 PM  

#44 & 45:

If American Exceptionalism can be reduced down to "liberty and equality", I can only assume you mean equality before the law, as no other kind is possible. Liberty and nature will always produce all kinds of other inequalities.

"The whole idea of nation-states based on bloodline is a recent innovation, something invented by Protestant heretics in the Sixteenth Century. Real European thought and greatness was established in the centuries before that, and this idolatrous worship of nations and national leaders, kings and fuhrers, was a retardation on Europe's growth."

Sure, maybe, but this persepctive also leaves out plenty of human history. Other than the great empires(and within them), most humans have very much lived in societies where bloodlines and family connection were paramount concerns. Tribal societies have not produced the greatness that America (or the great empires) have, but they clearly served a purpose and kept people alive, and bonds of blood and shared culture clearly motivate people to this day. And surely, the former abundance of land and resources being in the hands of intelligent, civilized people played a role in our exceptional achievements?

Now, in "America as it was and should be", people would be free to keep their own little tribes for their own benefit and posterity, but that freedom is mostly gone and fading quickly. And the "proposition nation" idea...that all peoples are individuals first and can be convinced of the truth of the propositions of liberty and equality..is being put to the test. While many recent immigrants to America certainly enjoy the greatness and prosperity, I see little evidence that the "liberty" part has sunk in at all. They stay quite tribal, while that luxury is laregly denied to those of us being replaced. We just get to pay for it all.

Most Mestizos choose to stay so, honoring blood before any "proposition", and also vote in the 80% range for socialist policies to benefit themselves, almost entirely paid for by whites. Meanwhile, "proposition nation" advocates demand that we continue demographic replacement...because we're all so clearly "equal" and on the same page about "liberty". Same with most of the blacks that were brought here.

Being a Californian, I can tell you that it is very very easy for the whole proposition to go straight to hell, with nothing more than mistaken beliefs about equality and the love of liberty guiding the way.

So...is there any evidence outside of patriotic wishful thinking, that a free nation can survive without a tribal component, or at least the freedom to actually live as free tribes instead of atomized individuals? Elites have already been able to usurp the processes and take control. There is no real freedom of association on a large scale, and many of our original liberties simply do not exist anymore. When the majority is big enough against your proposition of liberty, and sold on the pipe dream of true "equality", your cold dead hands may very well come into play no matter how much ammo you have stocked. They've already got your freedom of association, a good chunk of your money, and effective control of what local governments can do. And they didn't even need to take your guns or free speech to get all that.

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau May 08, 2016 9:00 PM  

The French Revolution was all about Liberty, Equality, and Brotherhood. We see how that turned out. Our SJW's are no different from the Jacobin Club.

Blogger bob k. mando May 08, 2016 9:05 PM  

1. Al From Bay Shore May 08, 2016 3:52 PM
because it allowed for the States to have sovereignty,



the 10th Amendment specifically demands State sovereignty for all subjects not delegated to the Federal government previously in the document. as the question of Secession is not otherwise addressed, nor is there any agreement to 'perpetual union' or anything like that, Secession likewise falls under the purview of the 10th.

the fact that the Federal government unilaterally abrogated the Constitution and voided the meaning of the 10th does not make what they did "legal" or principled.

nor does the fact that the Supreme Court ruled all of Lincoln's blatantly anti-Constitutional actions 'legal' make it so.

when the Federal government goes rogue, that's when it becomes a requirement of the citizens to right it.

and the homicidal maniacs in the Federal government would not have had one bit more respect for a founding document which was titled "Articles of Confederation" than they do for what we call the US Constitution.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler May 08, 2016 9:20 PM  

Because God put me here and nowhere else.

Blogger Were-Puppy May 08, 2016 9:29 PM  

@55 Josh
Wheeler, why don't you move back to Greece?
---

Maybe he doesn't want to wait in line behind 1 Gillion muslims?

Anonymous Eduardo May 08, 2016 9:33 PM  

Vox

Okay true that, I shouldn't have asked something so personal, but the question had a very clear reason to be... As in how closelly related you are to the Englishman Rights ;-)

Has it Ever occurred to me? Yes a lot of times. You have spoken about things in that sense and I know that you argue for things despite of your personal objectives or wishes. I know all that.

But I still don't get the why... Just because? Sounds weird Vox. You are an American, but as you argue about what America was and what it should be the more I see You out of that group! I don't get why an American would defend that! Unless there is catch there somewhere, otherwise you would have to accept Mestizo land. Are you okay with that?

Seriously, you are a mistery Vox... No wonder the SJW have NO IDEA who you are, not even me who likes you and your writting can truly understand you.

Anyways, allow me to apologize if the whole English blood/descent question was invasive, it was not the intention, it is just that my opinion on descent is wayyyy different than yours, so I just see asking about descent like asking if your car came with a Turbo... It's a big elevator talk to me.

So please Dark Lord, don't release the angry Minions on me!

Anonymous VFM Ultra May 08, 2016 9:34 PM  

...I am not the sort of individual who argues for the truth of a position on the basis of what is, or might be, best for me personally?

This is why I have such deep respect for Vox.

Vincit Omnia Veritas

Blogger praetorian May 08, 2016 9:34 PM  

From (*next map*):

Humans need challenges or they fall apart. Big Challenges. Important challenges. Life or death challenges or they just collapse into self absorbed, man-bun wearing Gnostics, who never have children.

Lost: one pair of sides.

Anonymous Rhetoric Man May 08, 2016 9:42 PM  

“What mainstream conservatives have largely forgotten is that ideas can shape societies and peoples, but they don't create them.”

That is patently false. The implementation of ideas built America.
John Locke’s concepts was put into motion by the British Empire and come full circle by the Founding Fathers. The Thirteen Colonies, consisting of a wide range of people, was transformed by those same people into the United States, a completely new entity.

Chris Mallory...


“The borders should have been closed in 1800, before the hordes of Irish and Germans descended to destroy the Republic.”

Wow, that is a strong anti-white statement. So, if it is true that ONLY the English are able to lay proper claim to the Republic, then everyone else ought to repatriate themselves. How do you propose to initiate this plan?


Cecil...

"One problem: Africa for Africans, Asia for Asians, White countries for Everyone IS White Genocide.”

There is observably no such thing as white genocide taking place, considering that American whites, of their own volition, under freedom of association, enabled other groups of people, their fellow whites and non-whites, to help build that nation.

Anonymous Eduardo May 08, 2016 9:43 PM  

Michael Maier

Well... SJW's have principles too lol.

Oh boy, if I could label my intentions on my words. I am not questioning his principles per se. I am curious... Would you Michael wanted to be ejected from your country if you realised that you are holding them back or you shouldn't be considered part of it? And if your reply is yes... What makes you think are included in the group?

Well about the meat... U___U duuuude XD. Anyways I said the food because somebody used that defense on me when I started criticizing the immigrants. Yep, thanks to them we have great food. I am from a country with lretty much all heritages, so that to me is like.... Useless as an argument. Anyways it was impossible to realise that XD.

Blogger James Dixon May 08, 2016 9:45 PM  

> We don't, many of us refer to "inherent rights" as being a fundamental component of the human condition,

Then why have the vast majority of humans throughout history never experienced them?

> like the ability to think intuitively is another inherent component of a human being.

So those who can't think intuitively aren't human?

> If one thing is sure it's that those rights accruing to man by virtue of his humanity are those the vast majority of a people agree ought to. It's a simple as that.

The vast majority of people thought that any rights they agreed on only belonged to their tribe. Outsiders had not rights. So if your argument is true, there are no such rights.

Blogger Phillip George May 08, 2016 9:47 PM  

Here's an easy list:

1. Blinded by science
2. Stupefied by relativism
3. Propagating the secularism myth
4. Propagating the separation of church and state magical mantra
5. Universal Human Rights/ without the merest inclination to reflect on Universal Human Responsibilities.
6. Self evident truth; there is no such thing. Language did not invent itself. You were taught it and infinite regression [reductio ad absurdum] won't explain it. Hey, "one rock says to the other rock"
7. No Pooftas - Monty Python. Proof that lists made the roman empire great again.

the role of lists in the restoration of the Roman Empire/ or the precise purpose of the department of philosophy everywhere

Anonymous VFM#1819 May 08, 2016 9:47 PM  

@59

When the Federal government goes rogue, that's when it becomes a requirement of the citizens to right it.

I posit that the government went rogue long ago and the "righting" never occurred. This nation, if that term is even applicable, is dead or dying. There is no saving it in my opinion. I hope that I am wrong, but I think observable reality says I am not.


What we need now is the planning for the foundation of a new nation. One that rises quietly in the midst of the ruins of the old. One that can succeed this one when the moment becomes ripe. That moment is approaching rapidly and the time to begin such an endeavor is now while communication is unrestricted.

Blogger kurt9 May 08, 2016 9:48 PM  

What the successor states to the USA will pursue:

https://alfinnextlevel.wordpress.com/2016/05/09/disruptive-new-paradigms-in-space-launch-and-nuclear-power/

And so on, through a long list of potentially disruptive, innovative technologies. Vibrant startup cultures of eager innovators and entrepreneurs — fed by funds supplied by successful entrepreneurial forerunners across a wide range of enterprise — can lay the foundations for unimaginable human futures of abundant expansion.

What if spaceflight were cheap, reliable, and widely available? What if the same were true for energy into the foreseeable future and beyond? What if individuals could make their own cheap 3D printers which could then make other 3D printers capable of making homes, automobiles, boats, medicines, clothing, and almost anything else of a material nature? What if home synth-bio labs could hack probiotic supplements adapted especially for the owner, capable of raising his intelligence and prolonging his healthy lifespan? And that would only be the beginning, if a vibrant startup ecology were allowed to sprout and grow.

If the alt-right or whatever you guys choose to call yourselves is not working to create the unlimited open future, then it is nothing and can never be of value at all.

Anonymous Gen. Kong May 08, 2016 9:54 PM  

The French Revolution was all about Liberty, Equality, and Brotherhood. We see how that turned out. Our SJW's are no different from the Jacobin Club.

The American revolution was more about liberty than the rest, despite Jefferson's including 'equality' in the Declaration. Nevertheless, the constraints mentioned by tz above are long gone. The cuck mouthpieces like Beck are every bit the charter members of Club Jacobin as the SJWs are. Their beloved USSA is now nothing more than an utterly corrupt and evil empire run by a genocidal oligarchy. It needs torching, along with much else.

As for the Vatican - now reduced to a clown-candy-mountain of mountebankery presided over by one of the more sulphurous clown-farts in history - how long before St. Peter's sprouts minarets and becomes Rome's central mosque? Anyone taking bets? It's not as if there's anything standing in the way of it. Does Rome think it is more righteous than Constantinople was? At least Michael Paleologus died on the wall fighting the Turk, and the Patriarch in Hagia Sophia slaughtered on the altar when they violated the sanctuary. Franny will probably give them a free Lewinsky while they laugh and have Law, Mahoney and some of the other luminaries from Murika wait in line.

Blogger Were-Puppy May 08, 2016 9:56 PM  

@66 Eduardo

Well about the meat... U___U duuuude XD. Anyways I said the food because somebody used that defense on me when I started criticizing the immigrants. Yep, thanks to them we have great food. I am from a country with lretty much all heritages, so that to me is like.... Useless as an argument. Anyways it was impossible to realise that XD.
--

:P

Teddy, that might have been me making a joke?

I have said before that between Europe and US, at least our invaders have good food. But that is a joke making light of a bad situation

Anonymous Eduardo May 08, 2016 10:00 PM  

Were-puppy

Actually it is far worst mate. It was my Polish/German friend that said that to me. Which made me pinch my skin just to see if I was not in the Twilight Zone... Or as I used to say: Toilet Zone. Back when english was pretty damn hard for me.

But anyways, it does sounds like somethig you would say. U_U your playful style is really unique around here.

Anonymous Ajax May 08, 2016 10:08 PM  

This reminds me of a business ethics class I took a while back. The instructor had gone off on a tangent and was lecturing on America not being a country but this grand idea and how people in other countries consider themselves to be American. “What the hell,” I thought to myself. He looked over at a group of Caribbean students in the class and said, “Some of you consider yourselves to be American, don’t you?” A couple of them looked at each other and replied to him, “No.”

Anonymous VFM#1819 May 08, 2016 10:12 PM  

@70

If the alt-right or whatever you guys choose to call yourselves is not working to create the unlimited open future, then it is nothing and can never be of value at all.

Please define for us what you mean by "unlimited open future." I read your linked article and didn't come across the term.

Anonymous Takin' a Look May 08, 2016 10:23 PM  

@ Eduardo

Vox has the peace of Christ in him. In all my travels, I've seen it in a rare few. Ironically, one was an Athiest, but you can -see- it if you have the eyes for it. It's a stillness that I cannot explain. A creature not quite of this world, but in it. That only happens to those who love Truth, no matter how much it burns your flesh.

Blogger ray May 08, 2016 10:28 PM  

#45 -- "All I can say, as a Virginian, is that if y'all want to come take our American rights, equality, liberty, and system of government, and way of life away: Molon Labe."


lol Equality? Libertas? Defend Our Way of Life to the death? Sounds like the concluding paragraph from a Barack Hussein speech! (Cue The Virginian music)



#14 'The Rights of Englishmen being for the English, and not for the Bantu, the Eskimo, or the Israeli, and the Choosing of Jehovah being for the Jew and not the Japanese, are what they are regardless of what I am.'


Yahweh isn't the personal totem of Jews. He is the God of the Old Testament. He is God, period.

Christ was a culmination of the Old Testament, not its refutation or rejection.

Blogger Harsh May 08, 2016 10:33 PM  

If the alt-right or whatever you guys choose to call yourselves is not working to create the unlimited open future, then it is nothing and can never be of value at all.

That's some really pretty rhetoric, kurt, but it means exactly nothing...

Blogger Harsh May 08, 2016 10:36 PM  

There is observably no such thing as white genocide taking place, considering that American whites, of their own volition, under freedom of association, enabled other groups of people, their fellow whites and non-whites, to help build that nation.

Which makes zero sense. Whether or not white genocide is happening is independent of how the nation was formed and who whites enlisted to create it.

Anonymous Takin' a Look May 08, 2016 10:46 PM  

@ Ray


Yahweh isn't the personal totem of Jews. He is the God of the Old Testament. He is God, period.

Christ was a culmination of the Old Testament, not its refutation or rejection.


Are you certain of that? Remember, the Old Testament is full of -Elohim-. Christ Jesus was a clever son of a gun. Which Old Testament god? The hebrews worshipped many before they went monothiestic and talmudic. Jah, or yahweh is not the same as ba'al, just as neither are the same as El-Eliyon or "Father".

All gods bow before God, doesn't mean they don't play Court Politics.

Blogger DBetti May 08, 2016 11:28 PM  

Thus all Americans must pass two tests. First, prove your genealogical descent from the founding stock. Second, pass a genetic test to prove you are the elect of the descendents. After all, not every Englishman in America was a patriot. Even Ben Franklin's son remained a loyalist!

Good luck, you Englishmen in America. There's a nation of blood alone for you. And what will you do with it? Rely on genes as a new form of predestination? But now we are back to ideas. As always.

Blogger Phillip George May 08, 2016 11:33 PM  

Takin' a Look,
that's kind of lazy. Elohim is the plurality generic title of God. YHWH is the specific proper name. YH is the specific proper name contracted.

YHoSHuaH is the specific proper Name of God in Human form [where human simply means of Man :-cf, Adam was man, not human] See Metatron lectures on the net.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgqReT35qBQ

I like the quote: Isaac Newton was first and foremost a theologian. Where Theology owns science, history, anthropology, biology, archaeology, etc.

To say this generation is dumbed down is an understatement.
How else could a Barry Soetoro have done it

Blogger Phillip George May 08, 2016 11:39 PM  

we are back to ideas

no, we are back to statements of fact. That's what the West was previously preoccupied with.

Not propositions, facts. Historical records. Eyewitness accounts.

How you skin a cut, print bank receipts for gold, and rules in court might be open for some debate. Mouse traps were open to redesign. Genitalia wasn't. A penis was a fact of life.

Blogger Were-Puppy May 08, 2016 11:47 PM  

@81 DBetti

After all, not every Englishman in America was a patriot. Even Ben Franklin's son remained a loyalist!
---

I was informed of one ancestor who fought for the redcoats around that time - DOH

Anonymous Takin' a Look May 08, 2016 11:52 PM  

@ Phillip George

Blame the translators. It isn't "Lazy" it's what it is. How many times in Genesis, heck the whole OT do we have the gods proclaim "Man is become as US". Quite a lot!

Blogger Phillip George May 09, 2016 12:06 AM  

I'll credit the Author. LORD was used as a code replacement for Hebrew rendition of YHWH. LORD meaning YHWH, proper noun, and lord is adonai, generic title. Elohim or Elohym, or El are all generic titles.

POTUS is a title and Barack is a given Name.

Anonymous Eduardo May 09, 2016 12:18 AM  

Taking a Look

There are some mistakes there but the recording is long and I am lazy.

https://soundcloud.com/eduardo-couto-970868628/9-de-maio-de-2016-00-57-40

Anonymous Jack Amok May 09, 2016 12:46 AM  

Arabs have great food

Bullshit. There are only three cultures on Earth with great food: The Chinese, the French, and the Italians. There are several others with pretty good food, and a bunch more with okay food. Arabs are "okay" food. Better than the Irish boiling everything (but as one guidebook to Ireland once said, a great deal of the history of Irish cuisine has to do with the lack of ingredients), but Arab cuisine is definitely in the lower half of world cuisines.

Blogger Desiderius May 09, 2016 12:54 AM  

See also:

http://journalofamericangreatness.blogspot.com/2016/03/propositionism-properly-understood.html

Anonymous Eduardo May 09, 2016 12:56 AM  

Wow were-puppy your family is in America since before it XD. Seriously I was going to bet maybe 100 years of History.

Always thought the funny americans were those that are not entirely americans hahahaha ... Sorry t_t don't eat me!

Blogger ray May 09, 2016 1:29 AM  

#80 -- I don't disagree, except calling elohim 'gods'. There aren't any gods, or sub-gods, unless you want to call Jesus the co-God, which doesn't bother me; he's the one always emphasizing deference to Father. Angels have authorities but certainly aren't God, or gods.

The OT Hebrews, like all major tribes/nations, had an attached spirit. Yahweh is the singular and sole God, God the Father, to whom even Christ admitted complete submission. Tutelary spirits, by compare, are small things.

As for being 'certain', there's quite a bit of ambiguity in certain Scriptural areas, and this matter of elohim, nature and function, is one of those areas. So I don't grind it much. Judges in secular nations sit in Courts, too -- but that doesn't make them the President.

Blogger SciVo May 09, 2016 1:43 AM  

Will Brown wrote:"... those who don't believe in the existence of a Creator God cannot possibly appeal to unalienable rights that stem from Him."

We don't, many of us refer to "inherent rights" as being a fundamental component of the human condition, like the ability to think intuitively is another inherent component of a human being. Inherent rights are those rights that are universal to all human beings (they possess them, irrespective of their opportunity to exercise them), that interactively demarcate the boundaries between individuals. An inability to conclusively prove the cause of origin of a thing does not negate the existence of that thing, nor anyone's ability to acknowledge its existence.


That's absurd, because in the state of nature, a "right" only exists to the extent that it is granted by charity or demanded with force. There can be no such thing as a natural right without a higher power over nature to grant it, since nature doesn't. Without God, all you have is a "wish", "imagination", "philosophy" or "ideal", which you will find most humans don't share.

And if it's a minority view, and not granted by nature, and there is no one else to grant it, then it's presumptuous to handwave the source of something that does not exist.

Anonymous Takin' a Look May 09, 2016 2:29 AM  

Christ was not worshipping whatever the pharisees and sadducees and even the essenes were.

"Render onto Ceaser what is Caeser" that is the same back-hand he did when he said "not one jot or tittle of my Father is to be altered".

Who is his Father?

Anonymous Takin' a Look May 09, 2016 3:14 AM  

Look...I'm not trying to be an apostate or heretic here. I read, I google or library and the NT tells me that Christ was supposed to redeem the Talmudics...but...it didn't go so well. He dealt with goyim like the faggot roman centurion, the canaanite woman, the woman at the well, etc. and had a "holy FUCK!!!" bhudda type realization.

We all know how that turned out.

Anonymous Takin' a Look May 09, 2016 3:16 AM  

Sorry, the woman at the well was not a shiska, but she probably made Christ laugh. :-D

Blogger Phillip George May 09, 2016 5:32 AM  

except that narrative overlooks the fact that everyone of the first Christians were Jews.
And "talmudic" really didn't formally exist until well after the Temple was destroyed by Titus, about 70 AD.

You See, like the formation of the USA, there are lots of historical facts on the table. Nebulous ideas about ideas really wasn't what was happening in real time.
History only has One solution.

Anonymous Jay Will May 09, 2016 6:59 AM  

Second string New Zealand Maori rugby players can live and play for Japan as long as they like. They will NEVER be Japanese.

My favourite of all is when Qatar were offering huge contracts to Kenyan runners who had to change their name to Islamic names. So current steeplechase record holder Stephen Cherono's official name is Saif Saaeed Shaheen.

The truth is white people in the UK would rather the country be primarily white, but their programming and fear of being punished means they can't say it. It won't be Britain any more if it isn't. The brainwashing communities have done a great job over the years. Saying the above in many instances will get you the sack, or worse.

Blogger dienw May 09, 2016 7:24 AM  

Phillip George wrote:except that narrative overlooks the fact that everyone of the first Christians were Jews.

And "talmudic" really didn't formally exist until well after the Temple was destroyed by Titus, about 70 AD.


If you are Christian, you are misinformed. If you are a Jew you are lying through your teeth and thinking that the goy are to stupid and beast-like to have read any information on when the talmudic "tradition of the elders" began.

Blogger Phillip George May 09, 2016 7:40 AM  

Well, per discussions i've listened in to the oral tradition was presumed to be written from or during the Babylonian exile. But didn't constitute a particular school of thought until after the diaspora.

and all the first Christians were Jews, but weren't referred to as such until Antioch, by which time we Goyim were added to the seed of Abraham. Care to dispute dates?

Blogger Phillip George May 09, 2016 7:43 AM  

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b044j7pd

perhaps you know these people?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 09, 2016 8:19 AM  

@dienw
You are simply full of shit.

Blogger Christopher Yost May 09, 2016 8:58 AM  

@SciVo -

You're making assumption that by design are unproven and cannot be proven. You're then making those assumptions the foundation of a "factual" structure.

Your need for a "higher power over (N)ature" can just as easily be supplied with mankind, instead of a deity.

God is not a necessary component for either use or recognition of any perceived rights.

Anonymous Athor Pel May 09, 2016 9:10 AM  

" 45. Blogger John Wright May 08, 2016 7:41 PM
...
The whole idea of nation-states based on bloodline is a recent innovation, something invented by Protestant heretics in the Sixteenth Century.
..."


You gonna run with this or will you rethink it?

Anonymous (((Popery))) May 09, 2016 9:13 AM  

"The whole idea of nation-states based on bloodline is a recent innovation, something invented by Protestant heretics in the Sixteenth Century. "

Mr. Rome or Die reveals himself again. What a troll.

Anonymous lol May 09, 2016 9:32 AM  

Read Pope Francis’ new European manifesto: “I dream of a Europe where being a migrant isn’t a crime”
http://qz.com/677978/read-pope-francis-new-european-manifesto-i-dream-of-a-europe-where-being-a-migrant-isnt-a-crime/

Blogger Christopher Yost May 09, 2016 10:07 AM  

Acknowledging that SJW's and their ilk need to burn in the fiery depths of hell in an ironic manner (or, if you've read the bible, suffer in the cold loneliness that is the lack of God's eye)...

America IS an idea. It is not JUST an idea. Just as every nation is made up of ideas, whether they be based upon genetics, force or common thought.

That America should be more "western" (European, etc.) is an idea that, upon implementation, would be used to define it.

American Exceptionalism exists. Both as an idea and as concrete behavior. The fact that this is railed against doesn't simply make it untrue.

So many people here have a love for history but, for some reason, ignore the most recent couple hundred years.

Further, the idea of making America more European, with one thought, behavior, etc. is the exact same idea of SJW's.

They're just more bat-shit insane about it.

Blogger tublecane May 09, 2016 6:10 PM  

@107-But that wouldn't make America exceptional, because other nations are united by ideas, too. America would have to be extra-abstract. Which it is, in a way, because its founding was post-enlightenment. But it's not that idea-y. Our modern-day Puritans--neocon and SJW alike--way overestimate the "proposition."

By the way, I never heard the phrase "American Ezcptionalism" until it started to be widely denounced. I certainly recognized the spirit behind it, which is better defined by the "propositional nation" phrase. It's real, and pernicious.

Blogger Christopher Yost May 09, 2016 10:49 PM  

American Exceptionalism doesn't stem from ideas or even The Idea.

It is a product of American government and society: the allowance for a person and people to not only realize their potential but to strive even further.

Blogger Phillip George May 10, 2016 12:39 AM  

That sounds kind of like the writing on a CornFlakes carton.
Let's platitude our way out of this.

Who is the "We" in American government and society?

The flag stands or falls for Jesus. Since the Cross that's how nations have come and gone and it is how eternity now works. And if "we" can't save the nation, then it's our families and ourselves.

"God, king and country" might have been replaced by "God, Government and countrymen" but it can't be replaced by

"Government and countrymen" ALLOWING US to reach our potentials or go beyond them.

If you leave "God" out, the very specific One and Only, you lose the basis of language, meaning of life, respect for life, personal dignity, noble thinking, internal and external restraint, self control, cohesive impetus, inspiration for invention and independence, codes for civic duty, etc. Such as, for example, what actually happened over the last 50 plus years

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit May 10, 2016 1:29 AM  

Are you sure you want to argue that America is, actually, English? Because the facts on the ground, are that the United States of America are as much to Teutonic as they are English. From Happy Birthday to Christmas trees: German.

You know, the savage breed with out the Law ?

Blogger Phillip George May 10, 2016 2:20 AM  

There really doesn't seem to me to be any basis for race in biology. All divisions are recent and fairly trivial. But culture isn't.

From the Egyptian to the Roman, Empire held together by pointing men to the skies. The Egyptians and Roman alike paid the ferryman.

After Jesus Europe held together despite her wars with a turbid fear of heaven and hell. Laws and the cogs of civil society don't function without the righteous fear of God.

The only question is can God bless a nation, or keep it, while every institution of executive government now denies Him and His name?

There's no way out of this. You are on a powder keg bigger that the gunpowder plot.

Blogger Christopher Yost May 10, 2016 9:03 AM  

When you're forced to reinterpret a written statement/argument then you're signaling you've lost.

Don't go full CHORF. Never go full CHORF.

A huge (HUGE) part of what made America great? Real-world acknowledgement followed by real-world responses, themselves followed by real-world solutions.

All the while being able to have a relationship with and through god.

Thems were the good ol' days...

Blogger Akulkis May 10, 2016 8:40 PM  

"What's hilarious is that the propositional nation snowjob is based on the Declaration of Independence, a document of no legal value."

You need to adjust your thinking on that one. Arguments in the Supreme Court can be based on the Constitution, the DoI and even the Magna Carta. The Declaration of Independence is the legal basis for the War for Independence, and therefore, the foundation upon which the Constitution rests. Magna Carta -- because we are an English Common Law nation, and all English court cases prior to the War for Independence are valid case law to this day.

Anonymous cttet May 11, 2016 5:54 AM  

Yes, the US is built by some people, but they are all dead.

And some people try to relate to them to feel superior, but they may not think so.

Blogger CM May 13, 2016 5:17 PM  

I thought our "exceptionalism" was due to our democratic republic that was unique at the time and that this idea was put forth by d'Toqueville as well as noting the lack of aristocracy and the egalitarian economy at the time (before monopolies and cronyism and corrupt government).

Why we are exceptional is distinctly different from what makes us a nation.

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts