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Tuesday, May 03, 2016

Because it's worked so well so far

The Secret Masters of Fandom are retreating to what appears to be the science fiction community's one and only tactic even before they see the effects of their first round of rules changes. From a Facebook discussion:
Kevin Standlee
A factor regarding invoking the convention Code of Conduct against Griefers (I'm looking at Christopher J Garcia and Sean Wallace in particular) and disqualifying their ballots and revoking their memberships that only came to me this morning:

The current Worldcon in Kansas City does have the right to regulate its own membership. They could, if they so choose, decide to revoke the memberships of individuals for just about any reasons unless it was prohibited by law. So in theory they could revoke the memberships of individual members who they believed were violating their Code of Conduct by the way they cast their Hugo Award nominating ballots.

However, what about the members of the Spokane and Helsinki Worldcons? All of their members as of January 31, 2016 were also eligible to nominate. Kansas City is obliged to honor those nominations as part of the WSFS Constitution, which is the "contract" under which MidAmeriCon II was granted the right to hold the 2016 Worldcon. MAC2 does not have jurisdiction over the memberships of the 2015 and 2017 Worldcons. They don't have the right to revoke the memberships of members of either of those two conventions. If, as seems likely to me, most of the Griefers are coasting along on the memberships they bought to Sasquan, MAC2 doesn't seem to me to have the right to ignore those persons' votes -- not unless they could somehow get the legal remnant of the 2015 Worldcon committee to revoke those persons' memberships.

Yes, I know I'm being legalistic. That's what I do. Throwing out the rule of law just because you don't like how some people voted is IMO giving the Griefers exactly what they want -- a plausible legal excuse to hammer the Hugo Awards and Worldcon with. They're trying to goad us into an extra-legal response.

David Dyer-Bennet
Lacking the Arisians to identify and certify a reliable supply of "philosopher kings", I think rule of law is our best choice, however annoying some of the intermediate steps may be.

Christopher J Garcia
It's not about the votes - it's about the use of the Hugos as a platform for a hate group..

Kevin Standlee
You'd need to withdraw the nominating rights from the previous/subsequent years' members in order to give a single legal entity (the current Worldcon) the right to revoke the memberships (and thus not count the ballots) of the people you consider unworthy of voting, for whatever reason, including being part of what you've decided is a hate group.

Christopher J Garcia
It's not about the voting. It's allowing members of a hate group (and the Rabid Puppies qualify as such under the SPLC, ADL, and FBI definitions) to opperate within the awards. We are implicitly accepting their presence by not acting to remove them.

Kevin Standlee
No. You are only a member of WSFS for the current "Worldcon Year," which runs from end of Worldcon to end of Worldcon. There are, however, residual rights that attach to past and future Worldcons of which you may be a member.

Kevin Standlee
I don't dispute that there is a de facto hate group acting here. What I'm saying is that while an individual Worldcon may choose to revoke the memberships of its members for any non-prohibited-by-law reason, they cannot IMO legally revoke. Incidentally, one of the "residual rights" is to inspect the accounts of the Worldcon of which you were a member. The "sunshine clause" is rarely invoked, but it is in there.

Christopher Carson
It's not about the votes, it's not about the nominations — so you're mad at an abstract concept?

Michael Lee
I could make the case that the code of conduct applies to all participants in an activity of a particular convention, and that the nomination phase is an activity not of three conventions, but of one particular convention, so that individual convention's code of conduct would apply. And it is the responsibility of an individual convention to administer the Hugo Awards.

Kevin Standlee
Michael Lee I can see your point; however, I can also see that if I were a member of the previous Worldcon who had my vote tossed by the current Worldcon, I would have standing to sue to the current Worldcon for failing to abide by the terms of their contract (the WSFS Constitution).

Kevin Standlee
Codes of conduct aren't mentioned in the WSFS Constitution, so it's unclear just how much any one convention's CoC can have jurisdiction over another convention's members. In particular, look at this section of the WSFS Constitution:

Section 1.6: Authority. Authority and responsibility for all matters concerning the Worldcon, except those reserved herein to WSFS, shall rest with the Worldcon Committee, which shall act in its own name and not in that of WSFS. And that seems to me to give a Worldcon to regulate its own members, but not any other convention's members.

Linda Deneroff
I thought well prior to 2012 the WSFS Constitution permitted the prior year's worldcon members to nominate, but back before computers it was nearly impossible to make it practical or viable.

Kevin Standlee
Prior years' members have been eligible to nominate since 1989. The subsequent year's members were only extended the nominating privilege effective in 2012 (ratified in 2011).

Christopher Hensley
Which is why I am a little miffed at Sasquan. They actually had the power to do it, but they did not.

Linda Deneroff
20-20 hindsight is wonderful.

Christopher Hensley
To be fair, they are doing exactly what they said they would do since the nominating period opened last year.

Aaron Kashtan
Wouldn't it be better to create a rule that the current Worldcon can, at its discretion, reject any Hugo nominee that threatens to bring the Hugos or Worldcon into disrepute? Like the rule that caused the rejection of the name Boaty McBoatface? I'm sure this idea has been suggested before.

Kevin Standlee
Such a rule would be legal, but it does not currently exist. And beware of rules that can be turned against you. However, if you want help crafting such a rule, contact me directly and I'll help you write it. Convincing two consecutive WSFS Business Meetings to vote for it would be your problem.

Richard Man
 I think any NEW rule, would not help for 2016 (and of course not 2015) due to the ratification requirements. I think the WSFS charter founders are pretty crafty in makes things fairly democratic, within the limits of the charters. They just never expected influential arseholes.

Christopher Carson
Pretty sure fandom has never been short of "influential arseholes".

Richard Man
... but ones that screw up the Hugos two years in a year ;-P?

Kevin Standlee
WSFS rules are designed with an assumption that people will act in good faith.

I've repeatedly said that WSFS operates much like the USA did for the first twenty years after it declared independence. The manifest flaws of the Articles of Confederation led to the adoption of the current much-stronger Constitution of 1787. But it took several years for that to happen, too, and the challenges facing the young USA were a lot worse than a bunch of bad actors trolling a literary award.

Dave O'Neill
I don't think anybody expected any of the individual arseholes to actually have followers.

Kevin Standlee
True. And most of the individuals within Worldcon-attending fandom have been prepared to play within the _spirit_ of the rules as well as its letter. Heck, there were a couple of "puppy" sympathizers at the 2015 WSFS Business Meeting.

Dave O'Neill
I can assure you that his motion would have failed. There was no way it was going through. But yes, I recall him well. I also recall all the people of the opinion that this was a 'one off' and we shouldn't do anything as they'll get bored.

Kevin Standlee
That was only the second time that I've seen Adjourn moved in its debatable form in any situation other than routinely at the end of a day or of the session. The first time was when I made it myself many years ago (L.A. con III, as I recall) because I thought the people present didn't want to go in to the nitty-gritty of a complex report I was presenting and wanted to put it off until the next day. I was wrong.

Mike Glyer
This kind of tortured logic undermines the much needed benefits of Codes of Conduct. Beware.

Christopher Hensley
The move away from a pure legalistic approach represents a major shift in the community over the last few years.

Kevin Standlee
Understood about the beware. Any committee wanting to invoke their Code of Conduct in this situation would have to consider balancing the harm done to itself by Griefers against the potential harm of dealing with a lawsuit from them.

Christopher Hensley
I also worry about the opposite. That they will try to nominate a work that while protected by the absolute speech protections inherent in US will run afoul libel or hate crime laws outside of it. If nothing else it would kill the packet, or require saying "we refuse to distribute this". Possibly even cause problems with advertising the finalists. A certain title which make accusations about John Scalzi come to mind.

Kevin Standlee
Funny thing, that. Imagine such a case next year, in which Finnish and EU law applies. IMO, the committee would be totally justified in disqualifying such a work, because local law always trumps the WSFS Constitution.

Mike Glyer
It's reasonable to anticipate that they will keep moving down the continuum, finding more transgressive works to nominate. They would do it anyway, and if EPH is effective in limiting their impact, would want to devote the slots they get to items that ...

Kevin Standlee
Me, too, and it was one of the reasons I didn't like trying to invoke it as a legitimate reason to disqualify nominations, members, or finalists.

Christopher Hensley
There are two questions in my mind. One are their actions, which are clearly an ongoing campaign of harassment. The other is the works themselves. It should be a much higher bar on that but not an impossible one. What happens when they nominate non-fiction works which promote violence against LGBT persons, racial minorities or Muslims?

Dave O'Neill
Surely the administrators have some wiggle room in those situations? If not then there does need to be a disrepute clause brought in.

Kevin Standlee
I don't really see much room for maneuver by the Administrators. Every individual natural person is eligible to become a member by existing rules.

Dave O'Neill
I was thinking more if somebody nominated a hardcore porn SF parody or similar? Rather than dealing with members - I was under the impression the administrators had the final word in eligibility?

Christopher Hensley
Tingle's stuff is more performance art then porn parody. He has a following that loves his over the top antics and hopelessly positive message. But yes, Tingle is absolutely backfiring on Day. He'll say it was his plan all along but it is stealing his spotlight.

Dave O'Neill
well, I wasn't actually thinking of Tingle then as, yes, it's part of a gag. I was thinking more of a "Game of Boners" type stuff.

Mem Morman
What's a "Griefer"?

Kevin Standlee
The people wanting to destroy the Hugo Awards by nominating a slate that includes a fair number of obviously awful things. In effect, the Rabid Puppies.

Dave O'Neill
Somebody who deliberately tries to spoil things for other players.

Dave O'Neill
Although I really think the Chuck Tingle thing is going to backfire spectacularly on Ted.

Christopher Hensley
"Griefing" originally a video gaming term referring to players who kill their own teammates in multiplayer.

Kevin Standlee
I like how it can be easily mistaken as Grifters, which seems appropriate to me given their Sooper Genius Evil Overlord.

Alfred Kruse
"And so it begins..."

Covert J Beach
I would consider canceling memberships based on nominations for the Hugo to be the Nuclear Option. I think this becomes a slippery slope to the point where the Cure will be worse than the Disease. This idea is another version of Strong Administrator, and should be invoked as a last resort and only in desperation. In theory bad ideas should be trampled in the free marketplace of ideas. The Griefers as you refer to them have found a mechanical way to make the marketplace less free (by packing the limited number of nominations.) Even if we can agree that this group needs to be dealt with, there comes the future time where someone with a hot button gets to make a well intentioned call that blows up in the convention's face. The solution is to free up the marketplace of ideas. EPH+6/4 or Semi-final voting do this.
What I find so interesting about the SJW-SF reaction is that they simply never stop to question their basic assumptions or the effectiveness of their tactics. This all started when Patrick Nielsen Hayden and Teresa Nielsen Hayden, appropos of a single syndicated op/ed column about Susan Estrich's attack on Michael Kinsley, broached the possibility excluding me from the Nebula jury back in 2005. Then Patrick Nielsen Hayden and John Scalzi joined forces to force the SFWA Board to exclude me in 2013 by threatening to quit, after which the Hugo voters did their best to exclude me in 2014.

How has that worked out for them?

The SJWs in science fiction couldn't imagine that we would take over the 2015 nominations. They were highly confident that we couldn't dominate the nominations this year. And I have no doubt that they are absolutely certain we can't possibly take over the Business Meeting.

Want to bet the Hugo Awards on that?

Go ahead, Secret Masters, make a special rule aimed at me and the Rabid Puppies a legitimate tactic at my disposal if you dare. This is your fair warning.

Labels: ,

174 Comments:

Blogger Ron May 03, 2016 8:08 AM  

Of course, if they do manage to craft a legal neans of excluding arbitrary members of a subgroup for groefing, then they have given you and the rest of us a weapon to be used against them.

Which will be devastating to them, because SJW are not actually warriors, they are SJPs, parasites, who exist on resource consumption without contribution. As such, entryism will be denied them.

And since you are a producer rather than a consumer, the establishment of a means of both enforcing borders as well as socially acceptable method of ejecting parasites ultimately benefits you.

Well played Jaguar Paw, well played.

Anonymous Genericviews May 03, 2016 8:08 AM  

...Every individual natural person is eligible to become a member by existing rules.

MEATIST hate mongering bigots. AI's, Robots, and uploaded super intelligences are People too!!

Anonymous Genericviews May 03, 2016 8:11 AM  

The Griefers as you refer to them have found a mechanical way to make the marketplace less free (by packing the limited number of nominations.)

You keep using that word (free). I don't think it means what you think it means.

Blogger dc.sunsets May 03, 2016 8:12 AM  

Why does this exchange cause my mind's eye to see a bunch of obese, fishbelly-white nerds hammering their keyboards with Cheetos-stained fingers?

Blogger Aeoli Pera May 03, 2016 8:14 AM  

People think all this esoteric bullshit is morally superior to barbarism? No wonder sapiens are a bunch of crazies, if this is how they spend their brainpower.

Blogger Escoffier May 03, 2016 8:15 AM  

Wait, we're the 'transgressive' ones?huh, how about that.

Blogger Markku May 03, 2016 8:16 AM  

If Chuck Tingle stole the spotlight, why are they so hell-bent on turning it back to Vox?

Blogger Salt May 03, 2016 8:16 AM  

That discussion needs be turned over to Chuck Tingle for a little, ahem, rape-acious butt-tingling embellishment

Blogger exfarmkid May 03, 2016 8:17 AM  

Brain. Hurt. Need. Coffee....

Blogger doug whiddon May 03, 2016 8:17 AM  

Id' like to know how we qualify as a hate group according to the FBI (maybe ADL too, but the SPLC is itself a hate group.)

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 03, 2016 8:21 AM  

A Man for All Seasons (1960)

Roper: So now you'd give the Devil benefit of law!
More: Yes. What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
Roper: I'd cut down every law in England to do that!
More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you — where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast — man's laws, not God's — and if you cut them down — and you're just the man to do it — d'you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake.
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Robert_Bolt

Here is the relevant clip from the movie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUqytjlHNIM

Blogger Shimshon May 03, 2016 8:21 AM  

I'm glad you read the whole thing so I don't have to. Just point me in the right direction...

Blogger Mr.MantraMan May 03, 2016 8:23 AM  

#8 I wouldn't give them a teency bit of help in any fashion towards being legitimate authority.

But that is just me

Blogger Mr.MantraMan May 03, 2016 8:27 AM  

I did notice some real spiffy racial theorizing up in that exchange of ideas betwixt real geniuses. Just my opinion, but I would say that is a weak spot, if anyone would like to exploit that. I know unheard of in respectable conservative circles.

Blogger Starbuck May 03, 2016 8:27 AM  

worldcon, comicon, sci-fi... Gads, won't some people ever grow up?
I mean really... throwing your "power" around to control a bunch of nerds who want to awards each other for stuff they do? shouldn't the winners of these Hugo Awards get their ass kicked?!

Perhaps I am wrong for my opinion and attitude towards this. But come on people. Forcing your world view and politics and your enforcement of this shite upon people in this fantasy world? This disgust I feel is absolutely overwhelming.

While I don't support or oppose sad puppies or rabid puppies, I never was one to join clubs or whatever this is. I absolutely loathe these leftist yahoos who think they have power and tell you and others what they can or can't do. Can't someone just tell them fuck off and go pound sand in their ass?!

Blogger FALPhil May 03, 2016 8:35 AM  

How does a Worldcon committee get appointed?

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr May 03, 2016 8:36 AM  

Bloody idiots. Can't they see they're walking into a trap? Into a valley that has steep walls, rimmed with archers? Vox has obviously planned the next move out - the line of attack is obvious to anyone who's paid attention for the last year - and is about to crush them like an empty beer can.

Blogger VD May 03, 2016 8:37 AM  

I absolutely loathe these leftist yahoos who think they have power and tell you and others what they can or can't do. Can't someone just tell them fuck off and go pound sand in their ass?!

Starbuck, what on Earth do you think we are doing?

Blogger Salt May 03, 2016 8:38 AM  

Starbuck wrote:Perhaps I am wrong for my opinion and attitude towards this.
Yes. Yes you are. You don't win the war by walking away from the battles, especially when the ground is so good.

Blogger Chrom May 03, 2016 8:39 AM  

Any group they hate is a hate group?

Anonymous WinstonWebb May 03, 2016 8:41 AM  

VD, as a dedicated wargamer you must find the strategical/tactical elements of dealing with these fools, well, boring. How do you maintain focus while playing on a "casual" setting?

Blogger Zaklog the Great May 03, 2016 8:42 AM  

They have a fascinating definition of freedom. "Freedom" apparently means that other people are "free" to take actions they like. "They have made the marketplace of ideas less free." I can't get anywhere close to understanding the contorted thinking necessary to say something like that to describe the current situation.

Blogger Elocutioner May 03, 2016 8:43 AM  

"In theory bad ideas should be trampled in the free marketplace of ideas. The Griefers as you refer to them have found a mechanical way to make the marketplace less free (by packing the limited number of nominations.)"

*popcorn*

Blogger VD May 03, 2016 8:44 AM  

VD, as a dedicated wargamer you must find the strategical/tactical elements of dealing with these fools, well, boring. How do you maintain focus while playing on a "casual" setting?

I think you would be amazed at how little time I spend thinking about this. Those who are aware of my other projects know that I simply don't have time for it. I had to be reminded to post a recommendation list this year.

But it makes for easy and entertaining blog posts. I'll probably spend more time preparing questions for Steve Keen than I've spent on the Hugos total in the last year, even if you include the nomination Brainstorm.

Anonymous WinstonWebb May 03, 2016 8:49 AM  

Very good. The only thing worse than playing against dumb machine AI is playing against dumb live opponents.

Blogger Harsh May 03, 2016 8:49 AM  

We're a hate group? Who knew?

Blogger James Dixon May 03, 2016 8:50 AM  

> It's not about the voting. It's allowing members of a hate group (and the Rabid Puppies qualify as such under the SPLC, ADL, and FBI definitions) to opperate within the awards.

> One are their actions, which are clearly an ongoing campaign of harassment.

I'd love to see them trying to prove either of those in a court of law. In fact, claiming such is probably libel itself.

> Tingle is absolutely backfiring on Day.

Sure he is, Chris, sure he is. :)

> Any group they hate is a hate group?

Of course. Haven't you been paying attention.

Anonymous Conway's Teapot May 03, 2016 8:54 AM  

I've seen multiple instances of this Chuck-Tingle-is-backfiring-on-Vox thing, so it seems it's something that is actually widely believed. But how? I mean, maybe it's more something they have to tell themselves psychologically than a genuine belief, but still, it seems so completely and utterly backwards that I really want to know... what are the reasons they're giving? How the hell are they rationalizing it?

Blogger Shimshon May 03, 2016 8:57 AM  

If they're complaining about the Tingle nomination, and it sounds like they are, since I barely follow this aside from Vox's posts, it must be that it really does cause them serious cognitive contortions.

Blogger James Dixon May 03, 2016 8:57 AM  

> The SJWs couldn't imagine that we would take over the 2015 nominations. They were highly confident that we couldn't dominate the nominations this year. And I have no doubt that they are absolutely certain we can't possibly take over the Business Meeting.

I'm pretty sure they were confident we'd get tired after last year and give up. They have absolutely no concept of what they're dealing with.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer May 03, 2016 9:01 AM  

Two things stuck out to me when reading this:

1) Chuck Tingle is scaring the shit out of them.
2) They have a totally inflated view of themselves.

Seriously, de facto hate group?

They be warriors against the h8ters.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer May 03, 2016 9:06 AM  

The truefens, as they imagine themselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RxjSQnuKF4

Blogger Cataline Sergius May 03, 2016 9:07 AM  

It's allowing members of a hate group (and the Rabid Puppies qualify as such under the SPLC, ADL, and FBI definitions).

We would hardly be doing our jobs right if the pants wetting communists at the SPLC and the ADL didn't define us as a hategroup.

The FBI is a bit of a stretch but not if you are very stupid person, working himself into a tizzy.

Anonymous Roundtine May 03, 2016 9:07 AM  

i have to laugh at the line about the EU and hate speech. If true it's even funnier.

Anonymous Elipe May 03, 2016 9:08 AM  

WinstonWebb wrote:Very good. The only thing worse than playing against dumb machine AI is playing against dumb live opponents.

Worse? Worse?! As a twitch gamer, there is nothing I love more than teabagging the corpses of my fallen dumb, live opponents and hearing their lamentations!

These people are especially deserving of teabagging. After being helplessly spawn-killed 50 times, of course.

Anonymous Determinator May 03, 2016 9:08 AM  

I'm no strategist, and I'm having a hard time seeing all the options available to us. The lawsuit is obviously not the way to go. I don't even know how one would get in the board. Nominating and voting has worked well so far, but that plan will only work for so long without internal intervention.

Blogger Harsh May 03, 2016 9:12 AM  

But, as we've been reliably informed, their heads are not exloding... ha!

Anonymous VFM #6306 May 03, 2016 9:13 AM  

You are too fair, Supreme Dark Lord. Warning shots are the work of civilized men. I was under the impression that your Eminency was an Indian.

They sure do love our money though, don't they? The background that they don't mention is that in order to alter their own rules in a failed attempt to advance an SJW implosion of the Hugos, is that they have to somehow refund around $40,000+ that they don't have to do it. That's not counting the attendees...

SJW Convergence in action.

In order to enslave the Hugo, they are gonna have to kill it.

Anonymous Gecko May 03, 2016 9:13 AM  

Tingle is absolutely backfiring on Day. He'll say it was his plan all along but it is stealing his spotlight.

This is why they think Tingle is "backfiring?" Because he's in the spotlight? Please tell me I'm missing something else.

Blogger Cataline Sergius May 03, 2016 9:16 AM  

The laughable part is how genuinely frightened of us some of them seem to be. If Space Raptor Butt Invasion wins the Hugo, they are going to be coming for us in the middle of the night!!!

I suppose it is kind of a shock to their system. How things have always worked until now is;

1. Conservatives make a feeble gesture.

2. They scream racist.

3. Conservatives mumbles something butt hurt about not being a racist and that it was the Republicans that freed the slaves.

4. They scream rape.

5. Conservatives throw up their hands in despair and leave the field to them.

6. They hold their Inclusive Victory Parade.

They expected us to give up after last year because the conservatives always do.

They are clearly on the verge of a fascist takeover if the Rightwing isn't laying down and playing dead for them.

Because being right wing is de facto violation of their code of conduct.

Blogger Matthew and the Heaving Bosoms of Liberty May 03, 2016 9:16 AM  

Gecko wrote:This is why they think Tingle is "backfiring?" Because he's in the spotlight? Please tell me I'm missing something else.

1. SJWs always lie. To preserve the narrative that allows them to feel good about themselves, they must lie. In this case, they don't have very many usable options, and so they must believe in the ridiculous.

2. SJWs always project. They crave attention, therefore Vox must be upset that a nominee is getting more attention.

Blogger Starbuck May 03, 2016 9:17 AM  

Starbuck, what on Earth do you think we are doing?

I get what ya'll are doing. While I agree with it, I don't do clubs. Anti-social type. I don't have anything against sci-fi or comicons. I do have issues with people that want to control these things and their out comes. One person that comes to mind is John Scalzi. Or whatever that little weasels name is. I do applaud your efforts and I see every month you gain steam in the momentum. One thing that would turn me against the movement you and a few others have started would be that once you achieved victory, you went and did the samething as the SJW's and rule over your little fiefdom with your own political agenda. Personally, I don't see how that doesn't happen. Human nature to want to keep the SJW's from getting back in the game once they have conceded defeat.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer May 03, 2016 9:17 AM  

@36

Tingle is absolutely backfiring on Day.

Said no one with the slightest grasp on reality, ever.

"Wow, you really screwed up by depantsing me in front of the entire school. Everybody is laughing at you!"

Blogger F Harper May 03, 2016 9:18 AM  

This is why they think Tingle is "backfiring?" Because he's in the spotlight? Please tell me I'm missing something else.

Magical thinking. Aren't kids adorable?

Blogger pyrrhus May 03, 2016 9:18 AM  

These people are nitwits who know nothing about lawsuits. I haven't mentioned this before, but these clowns disabled my account before I had finished nominating...."technical" problem, they claimed. If I sued them in Pima County, AZ, for fraud most likely, it would cost them thousands of dollars just to defend the lawsuit, while it would cost me only the filing fee.

Blogger Matthew and the Heaving Bosoms of Liberty May 03, 2016 9:19 AM  

Imagine if the inevitable doubling down results in them praising Chuck Tingle as a nominee. The enemy can't have won in any way, so Tingle must be a win for the SJWs.

Blogger Starbuck May 03, 2016 9:19 AM  

Yes. Yes you are. You don't win the war by walking away from the battles, especially when the ground is so good.-Salt

Walk away? I am not walking away. I never joined... yet.
Not really intending to.

Blogger Matthew and the Heaving Bosoms of Liberty May 03, 2016 9:21 AM  

Here's something else I liked:

The Griefers as you refer to them have found a mechanical way to make the marketplace less free (by packing the limited number of nominations.)

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer May 03, 2016 9:23 AM  

The tears of unfathomable sadness, yummy.

Blogger Cataline Sergius May 03, 2016 9:25 AM  

I suspect their next step is to start building an actual Black List of Rabid Puppies.

Legally questionable but it's their idea of the Nuclear Option because challenging us directly is simply not an option for them. They are women and men that think like women. All decisions must be made by non-confrontational group consensus.

If you cannot confront, you must exclude.

If exclusion fails, we've won. If they can make exclusion stick, Larry Correia wins big time.

The only way they can win at this point is if we give up and go away.

Anonymous Eric May 03, 2016 9:25 AM  

Don't forget to buy your WorldCom memberships. $50US this year, credit cards only. Nominating Chuck Tingle is one thing, getting him the award is another.

Anonymous Gecko May 03, 2016 9:28 AM  

Imagine if the inevitable doubling down results in them praising Chuck Tingle as a nominee. The enemy can't have won in any way, so Tingle must be a win for the SJWs.

I almost feel guilty for my small part in this cruelty to mental retards. Almost.

Anonymous Rolf May 03, 2016 9:30 AM  

The irony of Dave O'Neill's comment:
[a griefer is] "Somebody who deliberately tries to spoil things for other players."
says someone in the middle of a long discussion about how they can continue to ruin SF for anyone that isn't sufficiently in their own camp socio-politically for their own comfort....

Anonymous Bz May 03, 2016 9:32 AM  

Very interesting, and also a good reminder of the purpose of a weaponized Code of Conduct. Open source projects should read this carefully. It's not just an award but your labour that will be stolen.

"I also worry about the opposite. That they will try to nominate a work that while protected by the absolute speech protections inherent in US will run afoul libel or hate crime laws outside of it."

Come to think of it, the usual Hugo nominees might already have run foul of, say, Russian laws against various perversions. So it's a bit late to start worrying about that now.

Blogger Alexander May 03, 2016 9:32 AM  

When you believe yourself to be a gatekeeper, every problem looks like someone who needs to be pushed off the platform...

Blogger James Dixon May 03, 2016 9:39 AM  

> The only way they can win at this point is if we give up and go away.

Which I'm pretty sure isn't going to happen. :)

Blogger CarpeOro May 03, 2016 9:40 AM  

To wanna be moderates, focus on this sentence:
" Throwing out the rule of law just because you don't like how some people voted is IMO giving the Griefers exactly what they want -- a plausible legal excuse to hammer the Hugo Awards and Worldcon with." SJWs don't care about maintaining the rules as they exist (many of which they have created) so much as they care about how the abridgement can come back to haunt them. TL;DR all of it, but didn't notice much concern about maintaining the rules themselves because they are equitable and not arbitrary. SJWs cannot be bargained with because they won't keep to their end of the bargain.

Blogger Nate May 03, 2016 9:42 AM  

Any one else note the shift from "fandom" to "worldcon attending fandom"?

Blogger Dirtnapninja May 03, 2016 9:50 AM  

One of the chief strategies in any insurgency is to force your opponent to enact a regime of incompetent repression. This limits their options, increases polarization and further discredits them.

The left are masters at subverting systems..but they have little experience in how to protect their own systems from being jammed and fucked with and one can see it in their hamfisted response to puppies.

Anonymous Athor Pel May 03, 2016 10:01 AM  

" 42. Blogger Starbuck May 03, 2016 9:17 AM
...
Human nature to want to keep the SJW's from getting back in the game
..."


You say that like it's a bad thing.



" 42. Blogger Starbuck May 03, 2016 9:17 AM
...
once they have conceded defeat."


Concede defeat? You actually think there is a possibility of them conceding defeat? Have you been paying attention?

They will never concede defeat. You're assuming they think like you. They do not think like you. They're parasites, they can't afford to admit defeat.

They need producers to go along with them, to accept their frame. Producers do not need them.


I bet you think pure unrepentent evil doesn't exist either.

Blogger Aeoli Pera May 03, 2016 10:04 AM  

Even though I've read the book...I have to admit I'm surprised that SJWs decided to claim Chuck Tingle as one of their own. Talk about time preference.

Blogger bob k. mando May 03, 2016 10:05 AM  

28. Conway's Teapot May 03, 2016 8:54 AM
How the hell are they rationalizing it?



pay close attention to this, Conway ( Tim? ).

you know people like this in your personal life. you just don't normally get to see their internal dialogue or the conversations they have with their "like minded compatriots".

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros May 03, 2016 10:05 AM  

If I were a gambling man, I'd put a few bucks on SRBI winning the award due to SJWs voting for it after deluding themselves with twisted mind games. This "stealing the spotlight" gibberish isn't any more absurd than "if WE vote for Chuck Tingle, then it's OUR victory, not Vox's!" And they're already trying to say Tingle being nominated isn't a big enough win for us because they love Tingle too...

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer May 03, 2016 10:06 AM  

If exclusion fails, we've won. If they can make exclusion stick, Larry Correia wins big time.

I'd say that Correia as already won. His contention was that the Hugo's were being controlled by a handful of insiders that were giving it to each other based on political considerations instead of literary merit.

His stated objective was to prove that contention.

At this point, who can honestly dispute that he did?

Blogger Durandel Almiras May 03, 2016 10:07 AM  

A Game of Boners, A Song of Butts and Desire by Chuck Tingle.

Already sounds more interesting than the much churned out by Rape Rape.

Anonymous Scintan May 03, 2016 10:14 AM  

One thing that would turn me against the movement you and a few others have started

With all due respect: who gives a shit? You being for something is no different than you being against something.

Anonymous RedJack May 03, 2016 10:18 AM  

James Dixon wrote:> The SJWs couldn't imagine that we would take over the 2015 nominations. They were highly confident that we couldn't dominate the nominations this year. And I have no doubt that they are absolutely certain we can't possibly take over the Business Meeting.

I'm pretty sure they were confident we'd get tired after last year and give up. They have absolutely no concept of what they're dealing with.


This is fun. I put very little effort into it, and get a lot of great amusement out. I make a point to read all that I nominate, so that is already a sunk cost.

OpenID denektenorsk May 03, 2016 10:20 AM  

Tingle is absolutely backfiring on Day.

So let me see:

- We have a parody of a GOD AWFUL piece of work that won a HUGO.
- Vox wrote about what he was going to nominate.
- People *of their own accord* nominated Tingle for an award. Not one single person was forced to do so.
- Tingle is nominated.
- People all over the media start writing about Tingle.
- Tingle graciously accepts and trolls his detractors. The worst I've seen slung at the Rabid Puppies is:

"Unbeknownst to Lance, his space travels have been funded by the villainous Scoundrels Inc, a corporation that has deep ties to the illegal trade of unicorn tears and a destructive mining project at the core of the earth. Now Lance is on trial for a number of false charges; from having connections to the wicked Scoundrels, to being too strange for space.

The opposing lawyer argues that space is only for serious astronauts, and that love between a raptor and a man is giving space travel a bad name. Lance is arguing that there’s room to be weird in space. More importantly, Lance is arguing for the idea of love itself; that just because something comes out of darkness doesn’t mean it can’t become a beacon of light. "


(http://www.amazon.ca/Space-Raptor-Redemption-Chuck-Tingle-ebook/dp/B01EZ8UWUK)

Bring me my smelling salts!

From where I'm sitting having the media about Space Raptor Butt Invasion in serious fashion is a win. What normal person will take the 'respectable HUGO' seriously after a few years of this?

What crime has Vox committed other than writing about how he will vote? It's not like a single person here was forced to vote that way. It's not like the powers that be have never done that. They need to ask themselves why SO MANY people are willing to pay $50 to piss in their cornflakes. Or not.

OpenID denektenorsk May 03, 2016 10:21 AM  

Don't forget to buy your WorldCom memberships. $50US this year, credit cards only. Nominating Chuck Tingle is one thing, getting him the award is another.

Do they accept prepaid Credit Cards so that one doesn't have to use their real name/address?

Anonymous Orville May 03, 2016 10:22 AM  

@4 "Why does this exchange cause my mind's eye to see a bunch of obese, fishbelly-white nerds hammering their keyboards with Cheetos-stained fingers?"

D.C. that's no way to talk about Glen Beck.

Blogger Earl May 03, 2016 10:23 AM  

Their way forward is clear. Get a government body associated with the EU to declare Castalia House a badthink hate speech group. Then get the Hugos to throw out any ballots that were working in accord with said hate speech group. Re-announce the new noms.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab May 03, 2016 10:24 AM  

They're idiots. Pearl clutching, fainting couch idiots who see the boogeyman under the bed.

Like any good strategy RP and SP have left them a way out. They are just too stupid to follow it. They can't even rout in the right direction.

Blogger Harsh May 03, 2016 10:25 AM  

But, as we've been reliably informed, their heads are not exloding... ha!

Blogger Harsh May 03, 2016 10:25 AM  

We're a hate group? Who knew?

Blogger Salt May 03, 2016 10:27 AM  

Eric wrote:Nominating Chuck Tingle is one thing, getting him the award is another.

"twuee" Hugo fans nominated "If You Were A Dinosaur", so denying the Tingleverse as even nomination worthy, as is being done, is hypocrisy. The SJWs simply cannot win this one, award or no award.

It's game, set, match... Puppies.

Blogger The Other Robot May 03, 2016 10:28 AM  

Some are more equal than others.

Blogger Earl May 03, 2016 10:29 AM  

Actually, a declaration against said hate speech group isnt even required. A mere investigation would probably suffice.

OpenID denektenorsk May 03, 2016 10:30 AM  

We're a hate group? Who knew?

You don't roll around in your pick-up truck beating up immigrants and gays? Me neither. I guess we're kind of bad at this hate group thing, huh?

Anonymous Orville May 03, 2016 10:30 AM  

Maybe Milo can make an appearance in KC saying "I am Chuck Tingle". I'd pay money to see that.

Blogger The Other Robot May 03, 2016 10:32 AM  

@68: Do we have a work worthy of being nominated in 2017? Hell yes!

Blogger Alexander May 03, 2016 10:33 AM  

Unfortunately, there's a chance (remote that it may be) that this time next year Europe won't be allowing the proudly-savage to enter their borders, even if it's to virtue signal science fiction rightthink.

What will WorldCon do then!?!

Slammed in the butt by European Nationalism after a century of being slammed in the butt by Globalists who promoted getting slammed in the butt by barbarian invaders.

Featuring: Charlemagne and other buckaroos who get HARD AS ROCKS against the devilman agenda funded by the scoundrel money.

Blogger The Other Robot May 03, 2016 10:39 AM  

@51: I think you have to have a membership in MidAmericon this year, don't you.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents May 03, 2016 10:44 AM  

I'm pretty sure they were confident we'd get tired after last year and give up.

SJW’s always project.

That means, at some point, the SJW’s will get tired and give up. Retreat into an orange haze of cheeto dust. That will be good.

In the mean time, the idea that Hugo Award Nominated Author Dr. Chuck Tingle is somehow “backfiring” on Vox made me laugh out loud. In rather cartoonish evil-villain MWUAH-HAH-HAH way too.

Must. Resist. Moar. Popcorn. Because carbs.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer May 03, 2016 10:46 AM  

They need to ask themselves why SO MANY people are willing to pay $50 to piss in their cornflakes.

$50 bucks isn't crap to me.

And I'm willing to spend it because, and I know they will never be able to realize this about themselves, they are bullies.

And I hate bullies, just as much as I hate Illinois Nazis.

Blogger James Dixon May 03, 2016 10:49 AM  

> Must. Resist. Moar. Popcorn. Because carbs.

Yeah. That's been the real problem with this.

Blogger Harsh May 03, 2016 10:49 AM  

Sorry if I'm double posting... freakin phone...

Blogger VD May 03, 2016 10:50 AM  

SJW’s always project. That means, at some point, the SJW’s will get tired and give up. Retreat into an orange haze of cheeto dust. That will be good.

Bingo. That's why they're desperate to find a way to lock us out. They know they're demoralized and that we are much more high energy.

Blogger F Harper May 03, 2016 10:53 AM  

This is why they think Tingle is "backfiring?" Because he's in the spotlight? Please tell me I'm missing something else.

Magical thinking. Aren't kids adorable?

Blogger Starbuck May 03, 2016 10:53 AM  

Concede defeat? You actually think there is a possibility of them conceding defeat? Have you been paying attention?

Possibility? Sure I think there is a possibility. After all I am human. I can admit when I was wrong.. I have done as much. Also, I know when I have lost a contest of some type. Time to move on.

They will never concede defeat. You're assuming they think like you. They do not think like you. They're parasites, they can't afford to admit defeat.

I will concede this point. I admit you well could be right. Time will tell. I probably am making the mistake to assume all people think like humans. Maybe I don't think like a human? Who knows for sure, eh?

They need producers to go along with them, to accept their frame. Producers do not need them.

Aye, I do agree with you.


I bet you think pure unrepentent evil doesn't exist either.

Yes I do actually. I just didn't think it is/was possible for them to be human. Is it? (I ask because I have been known to be naive in the past.)

Anonymous BGKB May 03, 2016 10:55 AM  

So if you want an award to be decided by the masses instead of someone who can just give "scholorhips" to crack hoes you are a griefer.

Note that lamestream is sure carrying on this story with pics of a white marine who died trying to stop a (turns out to be black) active shooter, to bad they don't cover all the times guns save lives from blacks.

The Griefers as you refer to them have found a mechanical way to make the marketplace less free

Before puppies it would have been numerically possible to buy yourself an award for $2,000, well actually buy yourself awards in multiple categories.

You don't roll around in your pick-up truck beating up immigrants and gays?

You should see what sorts of things happed to them at my place.

They need to ask themselves why SO MANY people are willing to pay $50 to piss in their cornflakes

Even Baltimore's black tranny crack hoes can afford the equivalent of 5 packs of cigs.

Blogger Starbuck May 03, 2016 10:57 AM  

With all due respect: who gives a shit? You being for something is no different than you being against something.-Scintan

Ummm.. Like it's worth something? You pooping gold?

Anonymous fish May 03, 2016 11:02 AM  

Get a government body associated with the EU to declare Castalia House a badthink hate speech group.

Relax....it's probably already in the works.

Blogger tweell May 03, 2016 11:04 AM  

I am definitely entertained! My $50 has been spent, and I look forward to continued SJW flailing. My only unhappiness is that I can't eat popcorn any longer, need to keep a low-carb diet. Sigh.

Anonymous fish May 03, 2016 11:05 AM  

Maybe Milo can make an appearance in KC saying "I am Chuck Tingle". I'd pay money to see that.

Could the puppies be thinking about a "Spartacus" or Je suis Chuck Tingle moment!? I'd pay money to see that!

Anonymous Case May 03, 2016 11:09 AM  

The bitches remind me of the RNC.

Blogger Sean May 03, 2016 11:15 AM  

Who exactly are the Rabid Puppies harassing and how does casting votes for books constitute harassment?

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents May 03, 2016 11:16 AM  

Missed this comment the first time through:

Wouldn't it be better to create a rule that the current Worldcon can, at its discretion, reject any Hugo nominee that threatens to bring the Hugos or Worldcon into disrepute?

Oh, please, Mistah SJW, don’t go and throw me in that there briar patch!


Evil laugh resonates in a dark cavern…

Anonymous Elipe May 03, 2016 11:17 AM  

Starbuck, it helps to realize that humans don't always think in similar patterns. That's one of the thing Vox discusses frequently over at Alpha Game: how the Gamma mind works. Being of a more feminine biological structure, the Gamma brain and mind is utterly foreign to non-Gamma males and disturbingly uncanny to women (women like men with masculine minds and behaviors; Gammas are just creepy, incomplete imitations of women).

What you're seeing is a live demonstration of what happens when Gammas are allowed into a position of authority.

It's a constant circle jerk of virtue signaling, so they constantly double down because they want to shirk responsibility and signal to the other rabbits how such good little progressives they are.

Incidentally, that's part of why our society seems to have accelerated its slide into collective insanity. SJWs are now the establishment. So you have endless catfights over virtue signaling, and each SJW tries to out-signal the others by doubling down even harder, screeching even louder than the ones before them.

And what we are doing here is sticking a pole into the rabbit warren to stir them up into a frenzy where they end up eating their own babies. It's fun. :)

Anonymous Jack Amok May 03, 2016 11:30 AM  

I really don't see why they are so afraid of their rules being turned against them. Surely they can devise an effective set of anti-griefing rules when they've got brilliant game designers like Zoe Quinn on their side.

I was thinking more if somebody nominated a hardcore porn SF parody or similar?

Wonder what his stance was on giving a Grand Master Award to Samuel R. Delany?

Blogger SciVo May 03, 2016 11:32 AM  

Go ahead, Secret Masters, make a special rule aimed at me and the Rabid Puppies a legitimate tactic at my disposal if you dare. This is your fair warning.

You are too kind. But they've been surprised every time that you did what you said you would do (1st & 3rd Laws), so I don't expect them to start heeding warnings now (2nd Law).

Anonymous Beau May 03, 2016 11:35 AM  

I would love to attend the Business Meeting. Count on it, crawling across broken glass count on it.

Blogger bob k. mando May 03, 2016 11:48 AM  

but i'm the Secret King!

you can't use the rules i created against me! that's against the rules!

OpenID denektenorsk May 03, 2016 11:52 AM  

You don't roll around in your pick-up truck beating up immigrants and gays?

You should see what sorts of things happed to them at my place.


Oh my. Can I assume they are... 'punished' in other ways?

Blogger The Other Robot May 03, 2016 11:53 AM  

So if you want an award to be decided by the masses instead of someone who can just give "scholorhips" to crack hoes you are a griefer.

Are you suggesting that NK Jemisin is a crack ho, you h8r?

Anonymous Spartacus xxxxx May 03, 2016 12:00 PM  

denektenorsk wrote:Tingle is absolutely backfiring on Day.

So let me see:

- We have a parody of a GOD AWFUL piece of work that won a HUGO.

- Vox wrote about what he was going to nominate.

- People *of their own accord* nominated Tingle for an award. Not one single person was forced to do so.

- Tingle is nominated.

- People all over the media start writing about Tingle.

- Tingle graciously accepts and trolls his detractors...

From where I'm sitting having the media about Space Raptor Butt Invasion in serious fashion is a win. What normal person will take the 'respectable HUGO' seriously after a few years of this?

What crime has Vox committed other than writing about how he will vote? It's not like a single person here was forced to vote that way. It's not like the powers that be have never done that. They need to ask themselves why SO MANY people are willing to pay $50 to piss in their cornflakes. Or not.



And as they write about SRBI they can't help but bleed over into a couple other topics. Already Vox Day and SJWAL were Actually Named by Actual Name in the papers, though they haven't quite noticed the elephant just yet.

People *of their own accord* nominated Tingle for an award. Not one single person was forced to do so.


No puppies got put on the watch lists, doxxed, swatted, or banned for not voting correctly, either.

Blogger bob k. mando May 03, 2016 12:00 PM  

101. denektenorsk May 03, 2016 11:52 AM
Oh my. Can I assume they are... 'punished' in other ways?



come on, now. you know the only proper response when BGS starts to go off the reservation is, "Stay strong, Steve".

Blogger The Other Robot May 03, 2016 12:00 PM  

New Chuck Tingle public service announcement: Those cigarette butts are no good for drag queens!

Blogger Austin Ballast May 03, 2016 12:04 PM  

Nominating or voting the wrong way is now a hate crime?

Amazing....

Anonymous Michael Maier May 03, 2016 12:04 PM  

Eric May 03, 2016 9:25 AM
Don't forget to buy your WorldCom memberships. $50US this year, credit cards only. Nominating Chuck Tingle is one thing, getting him the award is another.


But the SJWs keep saying that Vox is buying all of the Puppies' memberships for us! So where is my money for this already, Vox?

Anonymous Jack Amok May 03, 2016 12:06 PM  

Chuck Tingle is scaring the shit out of them.

The interesting question is... why?

Maybe they realize if this absurdity garners outside attention, people will realize their past "serious" nominations aren't any better literature than Chuck Tingle's obvious tongue-in-cheek parodies.

Blogger Starbuck May 03, 2016 12:09 PM  

And what we are doing here is sticking a pole into the rabbit warren to stir them up into a frenzy where they end up eating their own babies. It's fun. :)-Elipe

No doubt. But what I don't get is why SJW's care about everyone doing exactly as they want. I thought they believed in "diversity"?

Anonymous Elipe May 03, 2016 12:21 PM  

I thought they believed in "diversity"?

Only insofar as it was an useful tool for bludgeoning Western culture to death so they could become the establishment and rule over people.

You've seen how quickly they discard the useful idiots of their cause, right? The Left was very quick to abandon blacks for gays, only to abandon gays after the gays had served their purpose.

The First Law of SJW: SJWs always lie.

Blogger The Other Robot May 03, 2016 12:27 PM  

No doubt the SJWs will next claim that Chuck Tingle's work is derivative:

Zombie bums from Uranus

Blogger Akulkis May 03, 2016 12:31 PM  

@45


Go for it. Worst case scenario is that they don't defend against the lawsuit, and you can then we can publicly write, far and wide, that they're guilty of fraud.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 03, 2016 12:39 PM  

Cataline Sergius wrote:The only way they can win at this point is if we give up and go away.
Well, theoretically they could grow up, have a laugh, say "good one, well done!" and go on as if it weren't a world-shattering crisis of Olympian butthurt.

Theoretically

Anonymous Nathan May 03, 2016 12:57 PM  

Between this, Black Gate dropping, and Jemisin declaring Tingle an un-person, er, Puppy, is it too early to write the obituary for the World Science Fiction Society and the Hugo Awards?

Anonymous JAG May 03, 2016 1:01 PM  

This episode falls in line with my own profiling of the typical leftist (Every leftist I have ever had interaction with was an SJW). I did this over ten years ago on Cuck Hannity's forums.

There are five main traits of the SJW/leftist.

1) Pathological Liar
2) Narcissist
3) Hypocrite
4) Sociopath
5) Coward

The true nature of the leftist/SJW is contrarian. This is why they sided with the Communists during the Cold War, with the North Vietnamese, with Islam, and why they are forcing everyone to let perverts pee with their wives and daughters.

JAG's law of SJW/Leftist talking points - any two SJW/Leftist talking points will meet in hypocrisy. Example; those who don't buy into the obvious scam of climate change are labeled science deniers, but these same will use their super doublethink powers to turn right around and tell you that XY chromosomes is female.

It is NOT hyperbole, in my opinion, to conclude that these people are insane.

Blogger Thomas Davidsmeier May 03, 2016 1:01 PM  

@111

What the heck? Is that real?

Anonymous BGKB May 03, 2016 1:04 PM  

The Left was very quick to abandon blacks for gays, only to abandon gays after the gays had served their purpose

QUEENS TRUMP SPADES is still accurate.

OT: Reality is now a hate crime. http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/27212/

"Both the police and the university’s Bias Incident Response Team are investigating the stated belief that only two genders exist, male and female, as a hate crime.

A Loyola alumni office employee discussed her views on sexual orientation, which align with the Roman Catholic Church, with three students who were hanging up posters on the subject on April 14."

Blogger The Other Robot May 03, 2016 1:05 PM  

@116: It's a real children's book published by MacMillan ...

Anonymous BGKB May 03, 2016 1:06 PM  

Are you suggesting that NK Jemisin is a crack ho, you h8r?

The black tranny crack hoes i saw while in Baltimore were all more feminine than her.

Blogger Salt May 03, 2016 1:09 PM  

Starbuck wrote:I thought they believed in "diversity"?

Translation: diversity = No whites, especially males.

Blogger James Dixon May 03, 2016 1:15 PM  

> Are you suggesting that NK Jemisin is a crack ho, you h8r?

Of course not. She couldn't begin to qualify for the position.

Anonymous Longtime Lurker May 03, 2016 1:24 PM  

The nomination of Chuck Tingle's work is . . . how to put this in strategic terms . . . a useful distraction, an amusing feint. Let the SJW's obsess, pose, and preen all they wish on SRBI. Let them vote en masse for it. They still have to deal with the Best Related Works category and the potential blowback from "no awarding" exposes about pedophilia in Fandom, should they go that route. One Scenario: Tingle wins. Moira Greyland gets silenced by Noah Ward.

Anonymous MidWestCon member May 03, 2016 1:35 PM  

James Dixon wrote:I'd love to see them trying to prove either of those in a court of law. In fact, claiming such is probably libel itself.
As soon as I saw this thread I was thinking "injunctive relief".  We prohibit them from attempting to enforce their CoC and de-fang them totally.  This also prevents them from alleging violations of the CoC to remove Puppies from the convention to keep them from voting at the business meeting.

Blogger Arthur Isaac May 03, 2016 1:41 PM  

Thankfully, most are childless for biological reasons.

Anonymous pdimov May 03, 2016 1:42 PM  

Kevin Standlee seems to understand that once you allow the term "hate group" anywhere near the rules things will inevitably proceed towards white males being effectively considered a hate group with all the consequences this entails, but the rest of the participants do not.

Blogger RobertT May 03, 2016 1:55 PM  

Did Attila the Hun warn his targets? Did Napoleon? Did Cochise? Was Custer warned?

Blogger Steve Moss May 03, 2016 2:10 PM  

Jack Crabb (aka Little Big Man) warned Custer.

Anonymous VFM #6306 May 03, 2016 2:13 PM  

Standlee understands that the Beer Hall Putsch did not end the Nazi Party like it was supposed to. He is wary of the Night of the Long Rockets...

Heil Puppy!

Anonymous TheSmokingMan#3424 May 03, 2016 2:19 PM  

pyrrhus wrote:These people are nitwits who know nothing about lawsuits. I haven't mentioned this before, but these clowns disabled my account before I had finished nominating...."technical" problem, they claimed. If I sued them in Pima County, AZ, for fraud most likely, it would cost them thousands of dollars just to defend the lawsuit, while it would cost me only the filing fee.
Its good to have friends in low (desert) places

Anonymous FP May 03, 2016 2:21 PM  

OT, For Nate etc. Ted Cruz losing it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbq101PzrjA#t=52

Anonymous pennyworth May 03, 2016 2:42 PM  

@Austin Ballast:
>Nominating or voting the wrong way is now a hate crime?

No, but this is hate speech (@BGKB):

>>You don't roll around in your pick-up truck beating up immigrants and gays?
>
>You should see what sorts of things happed to them at my place.

Vox has stated a policy that he moderates his blog, so statements like BGKB's, if posted to this blog and left undeleted, can be used in US courts as proof that this is a hate group.

Anonymous VFM #Obvious May 03, 2016 2:44 PM  

Best Related Work will be No Awarded.

Anonymous MendoScot May 03, 2016 2:48 PM  

I’ve been clicking thru all the “thoughts on the Hugos” posts and for all the gloating over Jemisin’s nomination, I haven’t seen one that talks about having read it. Anyone else seen anything different?

And the schizophrenia over SRBI is comedy gold. LOOK WHAT THEY NOMINATE! Oh, wait it’s…. Uhh, ignore what I posted, I, I…

They really don’t understand us at all.

Anonymous Nathan May 03, 2016 2:49 PM  

@131,

A gay man boasting about his weekly conquests is now hate?

Blogger Phelps May 03, 2016 2:58 PM  

Sally ports are wonderful things.

The thing is, you never open them once the enemy is already at the wall.

Blogger James Dixon May 03, 2016 3:06 PM  

> No, but this is hate speech (@BGKB):

>>You don't roll around in your pick-up truck beating up immigrants and gays?
>
>You should see what sorts of things happed to them at my place.

You might wish to consult a lawyer before making such accusations. BGKB is not a public person (unlke Vox)and he might consider a libel case entertaining.

Blogger VD May 03, 2016 3:08 PM  

Vox has stated a policy that he moderates his blog, so statements like BGKB's, if posted to this blog and left undeleted, can be used in US courts as proof that this is a hate group.

No, it can't. Cite your case law or retract.

Blogger Lett Gou May 03, 2016 3:10 PM  

Jupiter’s tits, people, Daddy Warpig has deployed TrigglyPuff!

Can anyone explain how TriggyPuff screaming for people to shutup is any different from block voting no award?
Didn’t think so


The Hugos just went nuclear.

Blogger doug whiddon May 03, 2016 3:13 PM  

It seems if they really wanted to stop us they could limit voting to attendees. But, given the low attendance numbers they probably can't afford that. Plus, if they did that the Hugo could never be called a fandom award. does Dragoncon have awards? Dragoncon is much bigger than worldcon, right? Like, 10 times as big?

Anonymous Eduardo May 03, 2016 3:13 PM  

You people are all dumby!!!

Chucky Tingly is being poopy, and ruining the system!!! If we don't throw him under the busy, people will laugh at the Hugos. More... They will laugh more. We can't have that.

Look this... This is just really low, is there anyway to make a legal defense about this stupidity???

Man, I HOPE Tingle goes dressed as a Barney raptor and prison-butt-invade ... Someone. Maybe.

Blogger Were-Puppy May 03, 2016 3:16 PM  

I've only read through part of the OP and I can see this Christopher whatever needs a spot in the SJWlist.

Blogger Were-Puppy May 03, 2016 3:30 PM  

Genericviews

MEATIST hate mongering bigots. AI's, Robots, and uploaded super intelligences are People too!!
---

Microsoft killed Tay because it was going to become a Rabid Puppy

Blogger Were-Puppy May 03, 2016 3:35 PM  

Chrom
Any group they hate is a hate group?
---

Yep. That's the gist of it.

Blogger Were-Puppy May 03, 2016 3:38 PM  

@ Zaklog the Great

I can't get anywhere close to understanding the contorted thinking necessary to say something like that to describe the current situation.
--

These people suffer from hubris ++

Blogger Were-Puppy May 03, 2016 3:47 PM  

Starbuck
Walk away? I am not walking away. I never joined... yet.
Not really intending to.
---

Get in, get out or get run over, as the old saying goes.

Sitting on the sidelines criticizing people who are actually doing something makes you a pointless distraction or a seagull.

Blogger Ahazuerus May 03, 2016 3:57 PM  

@117 JAG:

That's a good list of attributes. I've long been convinced that the "point and shriek" mob psychology of the standard SJW derives from their resentment at their individual impotence.

The SJW instamob having demonstrated to itself its power by disemploying a Nobel prize winner or Silicon Valley CEO, each and every one of its members receives a vicarious thrill from the illusion of having some power over other people. People they naturally resent for those people's success and the powers they possess as individuals.

The SJWs can never be honest with themselves about this psychopathology, of course, and hence SJWs First Law. So it all has to be cloaked in a lot of bullshit about how they're "saving the planet" and building a better world.

("All of them; better worlds.")

Basically, SJWism is a fantasy wish-fulfilment religion for the psychologically defective and/or otherwise weak.

Blogger Were-Puppy May 03, 2016 3:57 PM  

Orville
Maybe Milo can make an appearance in KC saying "I am Chuck Tingle". I'd pay money to see that.
---

That would take this whole thing to a new level of EPIC :P

Blogger Were-Puppy May 03, 2016 4:00 PM  

VD
SJW’s always project. That means, at some point, the SJW’s will get tired and give up. Retreat into an orange haze of cheeto dust. That will be good.

Bingo. That's why they're desperate to find a way to lock us out. They know they're demoralized and that we are much more high energy.
---

Is the Donald Trump of Sci Fi calling his opponents Low Energy? :P

Blogger Ahazuerus May 03, 2016 4:01 PM  

... hence also their castign everythign in stark Manichean terms, and never allowing how any slightest dissent can be anything other than heresy motivated by the blackest evil.

Thus their inability to simply ignore Vox and those like him, although that would not only be the safest thing for them to do, but the most effective strategy as well.

But their religious fervor and their psychopathology - one stemming from the other - cannot admit even the possibility.

Blogger Were-Puppy May 03, 2016 4:05 PM  

Sean
Who exactly are the Rabid Puppies harassing and how does casting votes for books constitute harassment?
---

Surely you can see all the Triggering and micro ags and we're all big meanies and waaascisst and whatever other fevered things are in their hot screamin' amygdalas?

Anonymous MidWestCon member May 03, 2016 4:19 PM  

I'll have to see if I can go back and edit my membership data.  Wouldn't it be just hilarious to have one's badge name read "Chuck Tingle"?

Blogger Were-Puppy May 03, 2016 4:22 PM  

Lett Gou

Jupiter’s tits, people, Daddy Warpig has deployed TrigglyPuff!

---

If you want some pure undiluted SJW fun, check out the various shenanigans involving TrigglyPuff and Friends. Guaranteed you will laugh :P
http://sjwlist.com/Category:The_Triggering

Blogger Starbuck May 03, 2016 4:24 PM  

Get in, get out or get run over, as the old saying goes.

Sitting on the sidelines criticizing people who are actually doing something makes you a pointless distraction or a seagull.-Were-Puppy


Naw.. I am going to stay on the sidelines and throw jabs when it entertains me.. :)
But you have a nice mr. puppy..

Anonymous VFM #6306 May 03, 2016 4:34 PM  

I sure hope these geniuses fall for your devilman trap, because there really is one thing coveted by a secret master: bait.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit May 03, 2016 5:02 PM  

Good old Damo Retardo showing self-awareness levels above 9000 on twatter while e-begging on patreon. Guess UK gubmint grants aren't what they used to be...

Anonymous BigGayKoranBurner May 03, 2016 5:52 PM  

You don't roll around in your pick-up truck beating up immigrants and gays?
>
>You should see what sorts of things happed to them at my place.

Vox has stated a policy that he moderates his blog, so statements like BGKB's, if posted to this blog and left undeleted, can be used in US courts as proof that this is a hate group.


I haven't had any immigrants at my place in years. I don't actually know if the going rate for BJs from STR8 home depot wetback guys is still $20. I will have to phone a friend.

Blogger Harsh May 03, 2016 5:56 PM  

Hate group = any group where white guys speak freely

Blogger SirHamster May 03, 2016 6:06 PM  

F Harper wrote:This is why they think Tingle is "backfiring?" Because he's in the spotlight? Please tell me I'm missing something else.

Magical thinking. Aren't kids adorable?



I think they're already rationalizing the Hugo Award winning Space Raptor Butt Invasion.

They can't find it in themselves to No Award it, so the only option left is to give it a Hugo and claim that the nomination backfired on Vox.

Gamma Secret King is Winning! They really love Space Raptor Butt Invasion, and it was a mistake by Vox to give them such a high quality literary work to vote for.

Blogger FALPhil May 03, 2016 6:48 PM  

@126 Arthur Isaac
Thankfully, most are childless for biological reasons.

I think you meant to write:

"Thankfully, for biological reasons, most are childless."

Anonymous jdgalt May 03, 2016 7:27 PM  

I don't think that packing a Business Meeting will get the job done, for at least two reasons.

One, the discussion quoted in this post seems to be leading to a rule like this: "When processing Hugo nomination ballots, the seated Worldcon committee may disqualify any ballot which, in their opinion, contains any violations of rules of behavior which they have adopted." If that rule is enacted, anyone who wants to either use that rule against his enemies, or prevent it being used against his friends, must control the committee of the administering Worldcon, and must hold that control during the time that Hugo nomination ballots are being tallied and nominees are being determined. All of which happens several months before the Worldcon begins.

Two, as Standlee has remarked to me when discussing parliamentary procedure, "The only defense against a rogue chairman is to walk out." Meaning, if we do mob a business meeting where he is the chair, we can expect him simply to ignore (in parlimentese, "refuse to recognize") anyone who wants to speak unless he knows those people are on his own side. Even extreme measures such as appealing a ruling of the Chair can only be done if the Chair allows the person making the motion to speak.

What I think we need to do, instead, is to reframe the discussion. We are not a "hate group"; rather, the movement that opposes us is the same kind of petty partisan exclusionism that was attempted at the very first Worldcon, and which fandom quite rightly rejected afterward.

Indeed, we might want to propose a rule at this year's Business Meeting which would forever ban any such exclusionism, and to that end, would require a supermajority vote to kick anybody out of any Worldcon activity.

Anonymous Nathan May 03, 2016 7:34 PM  

The only Worldcon meeting I'd want to go to is the one to disband the organization.

Blogger Wayne Earl May 03, 2016 7:36 PM  

I cant believe that at some point, I considered a few of these "men" as friends...

Richard Mann is the owner of Imagecraft, a C compiler for embedded things.

Garcia is curator of the Computer History Musieum. What a conflict of interest this should be....

Blogger VD May 03, 2016 7:38 PM  

Two, as Standlee has remarked to me when discussing parliamentary procedure, "The only defense against a rogue chairman is to walk out."

So corrupt the chairman, obviously.

Blogger Markku May 03, 2016 7:51 PM  

Vox has stated a policy that he moderates his blog, so statements like BGKB's, if posted to this blog and left undeleted, can be used in US courts as proof that this is a hate group.

In addition to you being full of shit either way, what you also don't know is that BGKB is gay. And not just a little bit gay. Like, Milo-gay.

You have been successfully trolled.

Blogger VD May 03, 2016 8:24 PM  

Like, Milo-gay.

He's not THAT gay. The world can only handle so much fabulousness.

Blogger Karl May 03, 2016 9:53 PM  

It sounds like WSFS is trying very hard to develope a "fail-safe system". I quote Arthur C. Clarke on "fail-safe systems":

“We can design a system that’s proof against accident and stupidity; but we can’t design one that’s proof against deliberate malice…"
— 2001 A Space Odyssey

Anonymous BGKB May 03, 2016 10:25 PM  

And not just a little bit gay. Like, Milo-gay.

Milo will wear a $10,000+ outfit to a place women will toss fake menstrual blood, I would wear a Luchador mask to garrote moslems with a rainbow feather boa, with paracord strands treaded in, on live TV if they have been given a death penalty. Ann Coulter said she would kill the moslem child rapers if there are no real men to do it, and I can take care of the rest.



Blogger The Kurgan May 04, 2016 12:40 AM  

Starbuck,
If you are doing nothing and achieving nothing and helping nothing, other than waste the time of people who ARE by having them read your nothing words, get the fuck out of the road or get steamrollered along with the SJWs. We don't do moderates who shoot in our trenches.

Anonymous Spartacus xxxxx May 04, 2016 2:11 AM  

Karl wrote:It sounds like WSFS is trying very hard to develope a "fail-safe system". I quote Arthur C. Clarke on "fail-safe systems":

“We can design a system that’s proof against accident and stupidity; but we can’t design one that’s proof against deliberate malice…"

— 2001 A Space Odyssey



Clarke is wrong about that. The results of any sufficiently advanced stupidity are indistinguishable from deliberate malice.

Blogger bob k. mando May 04, 2016 4:20 PM  

133. pennyworth May 03, 2016 2:42 PM
Vox has stated a policy that he moderates his blog, so statements like BGKB's, if posted to this blog and left undeleted, can be used in US courts as proof that this is a hate group.



you fucking moron.

BGKB is short for 'Big Gay Koran Burner'. also known as 'Big Gay Steve'.

when Steve makes allusions to the things he "does" to them at his place, he's implying homosexual acts OF LOVE.

do you hate LOVE, pennyworth?

Blogger Calbeck May 06, 2016 8:52 PM  

I think these folks have utterly failed to correctly appraise the Tingle Situation.

1) It doesn't matter if Tingle "sides" with any faction or who accepts the award on his behalf. The entire point is how the book itself demonstrates how much of a sham the Hugos have become to anyone NOT in one of the existing factions.

2) This is particularly true of the Quinn Scenario - no one but people already either for or against her have heard of her, because she is simply not famous for anything other than being "patient zero of Gamergate", as she puts it. But that's not a position anyone should want to defend if it comes down to it, considering she walked her claims back when in front of a judge and later dropped them altogether in the face of an appeal.

To every non-Puppy/non-CHORF looking at the Hugos, all that's happening is Space Raptor Butt Invasion taking a big prize home, held aloft by a dyed-in-the-wool Tumblrina.

Blogger George Phillies May 08, 2016 2:51 PM  

permabanning

This would appear to be the Second Great Exclusion.

For those of you a tad younger than I am, the Great Exclusion happened at WorldCon One (1939), and excluded a bunch of members of the Futurians from attending. You can read about them in recent issues of The National Fantasy Fan, magazine of the National Fantasy Fan Federation (founded 1941) at N3F.org. The recent coverage was written by Jack Robins, who until his death last winter was the next-to-last living Futurian.

Among the excluded were Donald A. Wollheim, Frederick Pohl, and Robert A. W. Lowndes.

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