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Tuesday, May 31, 2016

Mailvox: and this is me laughing at you

I always find it interesting to observe human behavior whenever I put up a music post. In addition to those who are locked in time and can't pull their ossified preferences out of the 60s/70s/80s/90s through which they lived their formative years, I'm always somewhat mystified by those who seem to think that discussing music is some sort of competitive sport.

I mean, if instead of discussing the example at hand, your instinct is to say "you know what is even better!" (link), then how are you ever going to analyze or understand anything at all? I just don't get that.

But what is probably funniest is those who appear to sincerely believe that they just happened to be between the ages of 14 and 19 when the greatest music in the history of mankind was recorded. Not only that, but even the young appreciate this when exposed for the very first time in their lives to music they have certainly never ever heard before and now vastly prefer it to the songs they listened to before, and continue to listen to afterwards.

No, Virginia, Journey is not the musical pinnacle of the human experience. Neither, I am sorry to inform you, is Led Zeppelin, even if "Stairway to Heaven" was the #1 request on KQRS for the 42nd year in a row this year.

(I have to admit, one of the unexpected pleasures of my life has been Millennials expressing a genuine appreciation for the various musical innovations of the 80s while snorting in derision at the lack of creativity, poor production, and technical inferiority of the Classic Rock that was repeatedly shoved down our Generation X throats by the Baby Boomers. Don't get me wrong, I like "Sweet Home Alabama" and "Carry On, My Wayward Son" as much as the next guy, but music from that era now sounds as technologically dated now as the music from the 1950s did in the 1980s.)

As Bill Simmons wrote of basketball, you can respect the classic BMW for doing what it did first while understanding that the modern car is simply a much better automobile across the board. Anyhow, in response to some of the comments.

Sorry, Vox, you have no musical taste whatsoever.

I appreciate everything from Wagner and Vivaldi to Babymetal and DNCE and I can tell you exactly why in each case. But how can all of that compare to Skynrd? FREEBIRD!

I would like to commend you on not allowing your musical taste to age as you do. Too many continue to listen to what was popular when they were teenagers and it is embarrassing when these people attempt to foist their taste on next generation.

I understand why so many people age out, and it is entirely normal, but I find it absurd to dismiss music simply because it happens to have been recorded after you passed the age of caring intensely about music. And it's particularly stupid to say "X is just Y" because it's not true. In fact, quite often, X is musically influenced by Y, and Y not only recognizes that, but appreciates it.

Ironically, musicians are much more catholic in their tastes and generous in their praise than most of their fans are. I'll never forget hearing Tommy Lee waxing on about what great musicians the guys in Duran Duran were, at a time when every Motley Crue fan would have dismissed them out of hand.

This is a joke right? I mean there is nothing funnier in the world then seeing the millennials victimized by their own sick twisted thinking and philosophy. The first thing I thought of when I heard the lyrics was that a Section 8 negro or illegal immigrants stole his car stereo haha...

It seems many of you fail to understand that the songwriter should be judged on how well he manages to evoke the emotion he is expressing rather than how you feel about the emotions being expressed. The mere fact that so many non-Millennials reacted so badly to the Millennial sense of loss and the desire to return to "the good old days" of childhood demonstrates how powerful the songwriting is.

You can learn a lot about a generation by listening to the music of its youth, and you can learn a lot about the history of that time too. It's almost heartbreaking now to hear the optimism of the early 90s; I can barely stand to listen to the wonderfully intelligent Jesus Jones song, "Right Here, Right Now", because now we know that we woke up from history only to get run over by the bus it was driving. We thought that we could move any mountain and that something good was going to happen, and we were so absolutely wrong.

Great song, it sounds like they couldn't make up their mind what genre they want to be in, so they went with all of them (emo, rock anthem, trance).

Even more than that. They can do anything from country to early 80s to techno. Moreover, they know it and are not above musically flexing their muscles to flaunt it.

All these songs I'm hearing are so heartless
Don't trust a perfect person and don't trust a song that's flawless
Honest, there's a few songs on this record that feel common
I'm in constant confrontation with what I want and what is poppin'
In the industry it seems to me that singles on the radio are currency
My creativity's only free when I'm playin' shows
They say stay in your lane, boy, lane ,boy
But we go where we want to

They may not be confident about much, but they are certainly secure in their musical abilities and songwriting.

That singer is a whiny little bitch. I prefer Sabaton when I'm lifting weights in the gym.

And then I eat red meat, raw, and throw down a couple of brewskis before I go out and slay some pussy!

I still say he needs a beatdown. It would straighten out his thinking a lot.

This is backwards. They are already beaten down. That is why they are looking backwards rather than forwards. That is also why they are so offensive to the Baby Boomers, who can't help but react to their implicit rejection of Boomer assumptions and ideals.

In my view, those of previous generations who dismiss Twenty One Pilots for being quintessentially Millennial are completely missing the point and failing to ask the salient question. Why do they express such a sense of loss? What is it that they are missing, what is the yearning in their generation that they express so vividly? There is a depth there that is absent in the vapid self-absorption of Boomer music as well as in the optimism turned bitter of Gen X music, to say nothing of the superficial posturings of more than three decades worth of the musical dead end that is rap.

They may not have the answers, but they are asking the right questions. And they may not be the fighters, but they will raise them.

Labels: , ,

194 Comments:

Blogger Al From Bay Shore May 31, 2016 5:42 AM  

I'll raise my hand and confess to having that "you know what is even better" impulse. For me, this impulse is a desire to talk about myself and to "talk myself up". I believe this impulse to be a "gamma" thing that I'm trying to replace with something more constructive and useful.

Blogger VD May 31, 2016 5:46 AM  

For me, this impulse is a desire to talk about myself and to "talk myself up".

I think it is for nearly everyone, with the exception of those who genuinely recognize that "if you like THAT, you will probably like THIS" and are simply being helpful.

I believe this impulse to be a "gamma" thing that I'm trying to replace with something more constructive and useful.

I think it is related to the human impulse to ignore what the other person said. Conversation is not competitive and it should be about more than waiting for the other person to stop talking so that you can take your turn. My advice would be to ask questions about what the other person is saying rather than attempting to hijack the subject.

Blogger Phillip George May 31, 2016 5:46 AM  

I was judging the poem not the music.
I think it's nearly identical to something written 30 years ago called "What about me". perhaps the most emotionally over wrought poem/song in the history of history.

but the white balaclava was unnerving. So 8/10 for chord progressions and singing in key most of the time.

Anonymous Steve May 31, 2016 5:50 AM  

Why do you need new bands? Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact.

Blogger Phillip George May 31, 2016 5:50 AM  

But the other question is if it's really just an audio visual stunt/ man selling his stuff why are we talking about music?

Blogger VoodooJock May 31, 2016 5:57 AM  

I'm waiting for the Taylor Swift/Katy Perry duet of "Love is Real"

Blogger JL Domingo May 31, 2016 5:58 AM  

Dos Gringos rule!

Blogger Laramie Hirsch May 31, 2016 6:05 AM  

It's almost heartbreaking now to hear the optimism of the early 90s; I can barely stand to listen to the wonderfully evocative and intelligent Jesus Jones song, "Right Here, Right Now", because now we know that we woke up from history only to get run over by the bus it was driving. We thought that we could move any mountain and that something good was going to happen, and we were so absolutely wrong.

Wow. Absolutely.

Now, I'll admit, I'm not totally taken with your choice, but I am in complete agreement with your reasoning. My musical taste towards mainstream contemporary crap...well, I hate it all.

But, strangely enough, I've found myself enjoying synthwave.

http://www.noecho.net/lists/synthwave-10-artists-keeping-the-80s-soundtrack-spirit-alive

Unlike those optimistic 1990s songs, this music tends to trend more towards cynicism, which I can appreciate because I'm cynical about everything now. Ladies would call me a pessimist, while guys would understand that I'm a realist. And the real truth is that this world is raw and unforgiving. For the moment, I've found synthwave seems to convey this.

And I think that the feeling of this current age, the youth--that feeling is one of despair, frustration, and pent up rage. Cold realism. A loss of empathy, and an embrace for crude things. That is what I identify with. Not because I choose to, but simply because this is the era I'm born into, and this is how I'm shaped.

Lazerhawk's "Redline", Kavinsky's "Outrun", Power Glove's "So Bad," it all returns me to a moment in the 80s when we thought the future was screwed. That it'd be filled with terminators, roadwarriors, and zombies.

On the other hand, I've encountered no one who identifies with this music, so there's that, too.

(I'll add, I feel the same way--heartbroken--when I watch old black and white movies that are so filled with innocence, that it's clear there was a completely foreign culture then.)

Vox, I have no idea how you can enjoy Babymetal. I've tried to get into it. Just can't.

Blogger weka May 31, 2016 6:05 AM  

@4. No. Rock did not hit perfection in 1974. I was just starting to listen to rock then... and even as a pimply faced youth I knew most of the stuff was dreck.

Ironically, the stuff that has stood the test of time from them was some of the more popular groups, Abba in particular, which most of the hard rockers hated.

The best part of that year was driving a student teacher to the whiskey bottle when he realized than none of us cared about Woodstock or the rolling stones...

Blogger Lovekraft May 31, 2016 6:07 AM  

My opinion of Hip Hop is that is was bullied into our consciousness/culture. Thug culture emerged when political correctness prevented sober minds from calling it the garbage that it is.

Not to mention it spawned the hiphop culture which to me is completely alien. A cultural trend that is long past its due date.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch May 31, 2016 6:07 AM  

Oh yeah, I forgot to add:

This is backwards. They are already beaten down. That is why they are looking backwards rather than forwards.

Absolutely. I think that the musicians behind synthwave are doing this very thing that you describe.

Blogger weka May 31, 2016 6:09 AM  

I have low tastes, but to share the pain: Leningrad Cowboys.

https://youtu.be/SRvL11JdNBE

Blogger VD May 31, 2016 6:13 AM  

Why do you need new bands? Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact.

And how old were you in 1974?

Vox, I have no idea how you can enjoy Babymetal.

I lived in Japan. Some things, you simply have to experience to appreciate.

Anonymous Determinator May 31, 2016 6:17 AM  

I hadn't listened to the song yet because I was reading this blog on my phone. I had heard their single "Stressed Out" on the radio and I dismissed them as another generic pop band. This song is considerably more impressive, and it does show that they have a bit more range than I originally assumed.

@1 'this impulse is a desire to talk about myself and to "talk myself up"'

I've deleted dozens of comments without posting because I realized that they don't add anything to the conversation, and all it is is me just talking about myself and nobody else cares. If I wanted to do that I'd (re)start my own blog.

Anonymous demonl May 31, 2016 6:31 AM  

Synthwave/Retrowave/Outrun is very nice.

Much much prefer Motown to 70's classic rock...

Blogger weka May 31, 2016 6:31 AM  

@13. Turned 14 in 1974. Not impressed with the music of that year.

Anonymous Takin' a Look May 31, 2016 6:52 AM  

Proverbs 29:18 sums up much of this. I certainly can empathize.


"They may not have the answers, but they are asking the right questions....."

Yes, it's a form of awakening, a realization that something very dreadful is lurking in the background. None of us have the answers (save God and He is keeping his cards close)

"And they may not be the fighters, but they will raise them."

That would be an interesting change. Millenials are the ones who are supposed to be the Hero generation. Their children the Artists according to Strauss and Howe.

Aside Islam (which needs to be "respected" ) I see the main war as being between nationalists and globalists.

Blogger Jamie-R May 31, 2016 6:57 AM  

"I mean, if instead of discussing the example at hand, your instinct is to say "you know what is even better!" (link), then how are you ever going to analyze or understand anything at all? I just don't get that."

Comments are for sharing and also for irritating your sensibilities. Speaking of nostalgia, it's great to fast forward 10 years on this blog and exchange information on an updated version of the same stuff. America has some continuity!

Blogger VD May 31, 2016 6:58 AM  

Another thing to keep in mind: we think less of the Millennials for being reluctant to grow up and wishing they did not have to face the challenges of adulthood. And yet, they are already ahead of the Baby Boomers, so many of whom still haven't done either.

Blogger James Dixon May 31, 2016 7:04 AM  

> But what is probably funniest is those who appear to sincerely believe that they just happened to be between the ages of 14 and 19 when the greatest music in the history of mankind was recorded.

Most of the music I like was written before I was 10.

> Ironically, musicians are much more catholic in their tastes and generous in their praise than most of their fans are.

Well musicians have an ear for music and can tell when it's well done. Most fans don't and only know what they like. I have no ear for music and can't begin to tell you why I like one musical composition more than another (lyrics, yeah, but they're only half of a song), only that I do.

> ...to say nothing of the superficial posturings of more than three decades worth of the musical dead end that is rap.

Rap was a form of poetry set to music. Good poetry is hard, and most of it was lousy.

> No. Rock did not hit perfection in 1974.

Sigh, pop references are lost on some people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLqfXlIq6RE

Anyway, Vox, the one thing I've learn from your music posts is that our musical tastes have almost nothing in common. For some reason, that doesn't surprise me at all.

Blogger Jamie-R May 31, 2016 7:07 AM  

I've tried Drake, one thing I'll say about millennials is that the 1990s was pop-culturally a serious time whereas the 2010s is wankerish, the 90s was seemingly trying to perfect what was being built with new ideas & tech that flowered in the 70s and 80s, and the 2000s seemed to be the wash-up of all that, following, confused, & diluted. So the millennials have wankers as their influencers, Drake & Kanye are perfect examples of the mentality. 2pac meanwhile was ready to die, serious stuff, now Drake, he is hiding under a table.

One thing that appears continuous in the U.S. is how the young back in a Democratic candidate that will get smashed if he was their ticket. Hence the panic to get someone electable with super delegates. Sanders is McGovern. Young people are the same.

Anonymous A Millenial May 31, 2016 7:08 AM  

Thanks for those two blog posts. Learned something new today about music.

I have started reading Models by Mark Manson and in one section he talks about how important as a well rounded man it is to form on opinion on everything. Not to dismiss music or art you don't understand as "meh, don't care" but instead listen to it long enough to form an opinion about it.

That is what went to my head listening to the song, without that bit of information I wouldn't have made it to minute 3 less alone the end. In the end there has to be something, it has 67 million views on youtube.

In my view, those of previous generations who dismiss Twenty One Pilots for being quintessentially Millennial are completely missing the point and failing to ask the salient question. Why do they express such a sense of loss? What is it that they are missing, what is the yearning in their generation that they express so vividly? There is a depth there that is absent in the vapid self-absorption of Boomer music as well as in the optimism turned bitter of Gen X music, to say nothing of the superficial posturings of more than three decades worth of the musical dead end that is rap.

It clicked here. Music in my youth never had a meaning. I purposefully ignore the lyrics. Even horrible lyrics I didn't care what was being said (probably subconsciously that horrid shit entered my mind anyway). Music was always a good kind of noise. Music never registered as an art from, a form of self expression. And that is what this song is and the writer puts a very strong emphasis on it by purposefully using sound behind the lyrics which doesn't allow you to ignore the message. A strong difference to all other music out there where lyrics and beats/ instruments compliment each other. It's still not my song, I don't enjoy it and it doesn't touch me emotionally, but I'm glad I can understand it (at least I think I do).

Anonymous Jason May 31, 2016 7:11 AM  

I make a conscious effort to listen to new music. You only have a limited time on Earth so might as well experience as much of it as possible. However my difficulty is always sifting through the mountains of rubbish to find the occasional gem. I think it has always been this way, but when I was younger I had more time to spare.

Twenty One Pilots is one of those gems. Thank you for the link. Something new to listen to this week.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer May 31, 2016 7:12 AM  

The best part of that year was driving a student teacher to the whiskey bottle when he realized than none of us cared about Woodstock or the rolling stones...

Read an article by a high school teacher awhile back, he was lamenting the fact that his students in his high school didn't appreciate the Beatles and when he tried to introduce them to the music they derided them as a bunch of old white men and asked why they should care.

But he had a plan, he wanted to create a course on The Beatles and their music so he could educate the youfs.

Blogger Rantor May 31, 2016 7:17 AM  

Interesting. I listened to the song and then 4 or 5 more. I thought this a good duo with great potential. Haven't heard anything like it on radio here. Will have to see if my daughter has heard them. She is always surprised when I ask about music. A few years ago I got into a dub step phase...

Blogger Rob May 31, 2016 7:17 AM  

I wondered if there'd be anyone dim enough to not get the 1974 reference and embarass themselves.

Anonymous trk May 31, 2016 7:22 AM  

As a 41yr old man who grew up in a rural area silence is something I am comfortable. Millennials are constantly bombarded w static and information overload. Silence is probably very scary to them or its something they want to achieve but are not able too.

Blogger Nate May 31, 2016 7:22 AM  

There is nothing wrong with appreciating voldbeat and five finger death punch as well as ac/DC and stone temple pilots.

Anonymous VFM #6306 May 31, 2016 7:26 AM  

I saw a 21 Pilots poster on campus two years ago. Couldn't make the concert so I took a listen.

They so deftly captured the outlook of desperation and nostalgia that I see in every millenial college kid:

A) The brittle co-ed desperate to prove her feminist cred while wishing she had a man to cook for.
B) The competent engineer who knows his job is waiting for an H1B.
C) The post-childhood kid who is simply worn out from having to constantly cross cultures without pissing anyone off.
D) The A student for whom his achievements never mean anything...because everyone gets a trophy.

I think they are great. Not as great as Su-Metal on Road of Resistance, but damn close. And dead on for America.

21 Pilots are exactly why Trump is going to win in a landslide.

Blogger Brian Niemeier May 31, 2016 7:26 AM  

"I can barely stand to listen to the wonderfully intelligent Jesus Jones song, "Right Here, Right Now", because now we know that we woke up from history only to get run over by the bus it was driving. We thought that we could move any mountain and that something good was going to happen, and we were so absolutely wrong."

The same bitter regret used to come over me when I heard that song. Now I take it as a trenchant reminder not to waste another historic chance--if we're blessed enough to receive one.

When Jesus Jones recorded that song, their optimism wasn't misplaced. It took a perfect storm of successive bad choices to turn the dream into a nightmare.

Blogger Nate May 31, 2016 7:29 AM  

" It seems many of you fail to understand that the songwriter should be judged on how well he manages to evoke the emotion he is expressing rather than how you feel about the emotions being expressed. "

I agree to a large extent that that is an excellent standard.

However... when applying it to the song you linked I come away with a much lower opinion of it than you do. Because honestly I don't think "contempt" is the emotion the song writer was looking to evoke.

Anonymous Faceless May 31, 2016 7:36 AM  

I was the one guy standing for Rapture of the Deep (released 2005; they got around to the US tour in 2007) when the entire rest of the lower bowl got up to go to the bathroom and wait for Highway Star. For one second there, Mr. Gillan and I had a connection - that geek in UU gets it.

Blogger YIH May 31, 2016 7:39 AM  

Don't get me wrong, I like "Sweet Home Alabama" and "Carry On, My Wayward Son" as much as the next guy, but music from that era now sounds as technologically dated now as the music from the 1950s did in the 1980s.
You have a point. Two reasons why that is:
1. All analog recording/mixing - tape even at it's best is still tape, no matter how it's formatted, it still has it's limitations. All digital studio recording/mixing pretty much wasn't available prior to 1985.
Yes, I know CD's date back to '78, but ironically, music recorded back then couldn't take advantage of the level of sound quality of (yes) .wav files.
2. What the music was made to be played on, car radios mainly. AM was still used for music stations into the 80's. Plus car ''stereos'' were, by today's standards, pretty crappy.
''you can't polish a turd''

Anonymous Faceless May 31, 2016 7:40 AM  

I appreciate the music posts; how else would I have been introduced to Detroit's own Electric 6? I'll never forget that night in a Mexican family restaurant sitting next to Dick Valentine as he got liquored up and kept saying, "Please, leave me alone" before he rocked the house for the 15 white guys in attendance who were primed and ready for some improper dancing.

Anonymous AB2000 May 31, 2016 7:42 AM  

The song itself doesn't appeal to me - though I appreciate the dynamic ebb and flow, which has been largely-absent from modern music - but, man, I recognise the frustration in the lyrics.

I remember hearing 'Royals' by Lorde about three years ago and recognising the undercurrent of disgust with what Millennials are being told to value as a clear sign that something new was coming. My musician friends laughed at me then too. "It's just a dumb pop song written by a kid, not like Queen / the Beatles / Steely Dan".

In the meanwhile, I've been writing songs of compassion and finding spiritual strength knowing Millennials need to hear this more than ever, and that their real concerns behind the false masks they're forced to wear are aching to be recognised. I'm annoyed the album I've been working steadily on for about four years now has been held up for so long, as there's a song there that predates Gamergate but could have functioned as an anthem for it. I could sense the mood in the air.

Something is about to change. I'm 45, and I've lived through enough of these cultural shifts by now to recognise the climate of stagnation and frustration before it all falls away. It feels like disco to punk and new wave, '87 into the dance explosion of '88, and the deadness of '91 before Nirvana hit. I think the kids are about to go really off-message in a way the mainstream won't ever be able to understand.

Great catch, Vox, but I think the song might be understood more in retrospect.

Blogger VD May 31, 2016 7:45 AM  


However... when applying it to the song you linked I come away with a much lower opinion of it than you do. Because honestly I don't think "contempt" is the emotion the song writer was looking to evoke.


The contempt is your reaction to the emotion evoked by the song. You would not feel it if the songwriter had failed to achieve his goal. That indicates you are insufficiently empathetic to relate to music that does not evoke emotions you already possess.

It's at all not surprising that you don't like it. You don't like Dandelion Wine either; they are very nearly the same message in different mediums.

Blogger Jamie-R May 31, 2016 7:46 AM  

Music is subjective and I think brains are wired differently for what's cool. I tend to appreciate the sounds, never really cared about lyrics, is nice if it merges well with the sounds, but not essential, I've sang so many lyrics wrong anyway. Evoking mood, places, imagination, to me lyrics get in the way of those things. The pop-cultural standard bearers of today, I've really liked Kanye's production work in spurts. He has less an understanding of the big ideological pictures that words and debates speak of, but at rare times the soundscapes he works off are inventively evoking, they create for brains like mine.

Blogger Nate May 31, 2016 7:48 AM  

"I remember hearing 'Royals' by Lorde about three years ago "

That song struck me as poser rationalization. I mean... the line "we're driving cadilacs in our dreams" wrecks the song's claim of rejecting materialism.

once you realize that... the whole song just becomes the whining of spoiled brat.

Blogger YIH May 31, 2016 7:54 AM  

BTW, tastes do change. I used to love Christmas music, now, by Christmas Eve, I want to shoot any speaker that Christmas music is coming out of.
From Thanksgiving on, you literally can't get away from it. Shop somewhere, Christmas music. Turn on the radio, at least one station has gone ''all Christmas - all the time'' - I kid you not. Even talk radio and football games shove it in there.
Another example of tastes changing, when Paul McCartney debuted Wonderful Christmas time. Now it sounds dated and really cheesy - and the music video is even worse.
Yes, that is what the link is to... You've been warned.
/rant

Blogger Nate May 31, 2016 7:56 AM  

" That indicates you are insufficiently empathetic to relate to music that does not evoke emotions you already possess"

meh.

I certainly couldn't relate to the emotions nirvana evoked... and while I preferred Pearl Jam and Alice in Chains.. I wouldn't sit here and tell you Nirvana sucked.

Blogger VD May 31, 2016 7:58 AM  


I certainly couldn't relate to the emotions nirvana evoked... and while I preferred Pearl Jam and Alice in Chains.. I wouldn't sit here and tell you Nirvana sucked.


You can't credibly say that about Twenty One Pilots either. Listen to the range from "House of Gold" to "Semiautomatic". I have no doubt they could do a more than passable grunge rock song with a different singer.

Anonymous mature craig May 31, 2016 8:04 AM  

I prefer the 1950s and 1960s music bc it seems to be more about pure entertainment light and fun. I don't usually like social message lecturing in music. I don't like songs about heartbreak either but that's just me

Anonymous AB2000 May 31, 2016 8:05 AM  

Nate: I'll explain my interpretation based upon the flow of the lyrics so you might see where I'm coming from.

She's repeatedly sneered at the totems conspicuous consumption, and states she and her partner don't need those kind of luxuries. 'We don't care. We're driving Cadillacs in our dreams' is a metaphor used to say they already possess the wealth, glamour and fame they're supposed to be coveting in the love they already possess with each other.

Same with the Queen Bee ending: we'll never be what the world tells us to be but we don't even need the outside world, so let's playfully mock the construct together to strengthen our intimacy.

Blogger Phillip George May 31, 2016 8:08 AM  

perspective is everything

Hip Hop and Rap music isn't new, not even slightly
acrostic poems with last syllable rhymes and key changes have been around for at least 500 years,

here are example replete with drunk womanizer and RAP sheet

http://skelton.id.au/skelton.html

Bear in mind. There's always been good bad and ugly in every field. As the joke goes, Bad was "bad" because he couldn't spell atrocious.

Blogger Nate May 31, 2016 8:08 AM  

". 'We don't care. We're driving Cadillacs in our dreams' is a metaphor used to say they already possess the wealth, glamour and fame they're supposed to be coveting in the love they already possess with each other."

You're being awfully charitable. I don't know how justifiable to apply that to the most entitled generation to even walk to the earth.

Blogger VD May 31, 2016 8:12 AM  

Semiautomatic is even better. First, the 80s electronica is up there with The Cars and Depeche Mode, only there is an anthemic quality to it that transcends anything those very good earlier bands did.

Then throw in the lyrics, which are brilliant... they actually read much better than they sound.

The horrors of the night melt away,
Under the warm glow of survival of the day,
Then we move on,
My shadow grows taller, along with my fears,
And my frame shrinks smaller as night grows near.

When the sun is climbing window sills,
And the silver lining rides the hills,
I will be saved for one whole day,
Until the sun makes the hills its grave.

I'm never what I like,
I'm double sided, and I just can't hide,
I kind of like it when I make you cry,
'Cause I'm twisted up, I'm twisted up inside.


They're as obviously religious as Prince ever was, but considerably more eloquent while being considerably less sex-obsessed. Though, obviously, not a genius like him. They're also not the whiny quitters some seem to think.

By the time the night wears off,
The dust is down and shadows burn,
I will rise and stand my ground,
Waiting for the night's return.

Blogger VD May 31, 2016 8:16 AM  

"Semiautomatic" very much brings to mind this line from "My Name is Prince".

I know from righteous I know from sin
I got 2 sides and they both friends

Blogger Nate May 31, 2016 8:16 AM  

Also... VD... aren't you known to score well above the norm on empathy tests?

I mean I'm not saying you have black eyeliner or anything... I'm just pointing out that maybe for someone who is extremely empathetic and oh so sensitive to other people feelings... then perhaps the song is easier to appreciate.

in black eyeliner.

Anonymous Steve May 31, 2016 8:23 AM  

I believe the proper name for it is "guyliner".

Blogger Jamie-R May 31, 2016 8:25 AM  

I wonder what black twitter thinks. Whites may be soundscape oriented in the days of Bach & Mozart, but sounds of music history of the last 100 years in the European sanctuary of America is largely black inspired and it must be like Muslims talking about music to them. I would indeed side with them. From a safe distance.

Anonymous tUS May 31, 2016 8:26 AM  

VD, I've had this exact argument with other Gen-Xers (who, as you correctly point out, are brainwashed by "Classic Rock that was repeatedly shoved down our Generation X throats") and also with Boomers. I've tried the helpful, "if you like X, you'll like Y" with them, but why am I not surprised that the most narcissistic generation and some of their children don't care to open their minds?

I'm currently working on a list for my (20-year-old) son of my 10 favorite albums from 1989-2016. If I had stopped at my formative stages I would have missed out on a frightening amount of great music. For my Gen-Xers I feel pity. For the Boomers, they've gotten what they deserved -- an echo chamber of almost universally mediocre music.

Anonymous AB2000 May 31, 2016 8:28 AM  

"You're being awfully charitable. I don't know how justifiable to apply that to the most entitled generation to even walk to the earth."

I never fit the media stereotype of a Gen X-er, and neither did any of my friends. We were sneered at for being slackers saying 'whatever' to everything, but everyone I knew was passionate, creative and hard-working. We just weren't heard. The stereotype was a product of bitter Boomers silencing us through their overwhelmingly-larger demographic, and refusing to let go of the wheel.

An interesting amount of the Millennials I speak with realise there is something very wrong with their Generation and are beginning to actively taking a stand against it. I'm also noticing the current High Schoolers are starting to gather in larger groups again and are more likely to 'hang out' in public places, all without interacting with their phones.

This more closely matching the unsupervised behaviour of the latchkey kids of my generation, rather than being immediately-collected from the gates and driven off to a post-school activity.

These kids aren't bubbled away from differences of opinion - these groups are big enough they'll have to learn to compromise - and I suspect they are going to be far more mentally-resilient than the kids who are currently populating Universities.

It's a damn interesting time to be alive, really.

Blogger VD May 31, 2016 8:28 AM  

I mean I'm not saying you have black eyeliner or anything... I'm just pointing out that maybe for someone who is extremely empathetic and oh so sensitive to other people feelings... then perhaps the song is easier to appreciate.

(laughs) Fair enough, at least for "Car Radio" and "Stressed Out". But I would think even you would very much like and approve of the theme of "Semi-automatic" even if the electronica leaves you cold.

What Christian can't relate to the struggle between hatred and love for one's own sin, or the ebb-and-flow of hope and fear?

I'm semi-automatic, my prayer's schizophrenic,
But I'll live on, yeah I'll live on, yeah I'll live on.

Blogger CM May 31, 2016 8:29 AM  

I skipped the last music post. Reading here has shown myself to be a neophyte with dated, immature, and mainstream taste. After the BabyMetal, I just figure our tastes are vastly different.

I especially dislike synthesized music. Late 80s and early 90s are my years, but I guess growing up with an acoustic guitarist and classical pianist who listened to Joni Mitchell and Gordon Lightfoot, tech music is not appealing. I also lack the rebellious trait that youth seem to possess in spades and so didn't really challenge the traditional.

I am a bit boring and that's usually OK with me. Y'all have some interesting taste, though.

Blogger Ahazuerus May 31, 2016 8:34 AM  

I spent time in London in the 90's, old enough to be over the teen mania but young enough to rave all night. Legendary clubs like The Fridge, which catered to a slightly older crowd, eschewed the heavy security with invasive searches at the door.

I can't say that track was to my own tastes but I sure recognise the influences and as a younger angrier man would probably have loved it ... less wisely but more well, to paraphrase Shakespeare.

I concluded several decades ago that every human endeavor shares certain characteristics, one of which I call the Principle of Gold Mining; you must crush a lot of ore to find a few nuggets.

I figure a book publisher would grok that.

I think of music the same way, but while the late 60's and the 70's were my own formative years, my father exposed me to the. classics and the crooners of the 40's and 50's. So there's very few albums in my collection as I consider few to be worthy, but there are singles from every genre. (On out shelves books from every genre).

I loved that Jesus Jones track the first time I ever heard it, and I have it, but no others, and I don't even know any others.

I try to follow good advice when I hear it, so I think this says it as well as it can be said;

"Test all things; hold fast to that which is good"

It's only an opinion of mine but I've found good in every genre.

Blogger Cataline Sergius May 31, 2016 8:40 AM  

while snorting in derision at the lack of creativity, poor production, and technical inferiority of the Classic Rock that was repeatedly shoved down our Generation X throats by the Baby Boomers

A-freaking-Men and no shit. The Boomers instance that their AM radio garbage was the best music ever created and everything else was completely and hopelessly inferior, was the first thing about them that I learned to hate.

Blogger YIH May 31, 2016 8:49 AM  

BTW on audio quality, I find it ironic that what is now referred to as ''vinyl'' (they used to be called ''records'' or ''LPs'') has made a real comeback.
An audio format that's even more limited than tape.
Not only is it analog, it really had it's issues.
Clicks, pops, skips, ''wow and flutter'' (variations of turntable speed while playing) and the fact that each time one is played it adds to the cumulative wear on one. Not to mention the fact that they're rather fragile.

Blogger Chrom May 31, 2016 8:56 AM  

@4.

Steve,

Who’s playing with the London Symphony Orchestra? Come on… People… Someone ordered the London Symphony Orchestra… Possibly while high... Cypress Hill, I'm looking in your direction.

Anonymous Shark May 31, 2016 9:03 AM  

VFM #6306, you got me interested. Can you point to the songs where those themes are?

Anonymous AB2000 May 31, 2016 9:06 AM  

"I guess growing up with an acoustic guitarist and classical pianist who listened to Joni Mitchell and Gordon Lightfoot, tech music is not appealing."

I've always thought the particular strength of electronic music is its lack of humanity - If I wanted to write passionate or angry songs about disaffection and isolation within society, I'd put all the and emotional vulnerability into the vocal, but make the backing track sound as coldly-inhuman as possible. I think it's a natural fit for the introverted, the introspective and those who wish to withdraw in disgust.

I'm coming around more to this song. Originally, I didn't like the repetitive nature of the music, but now I'm seeing it as indicative of fixation.

Blogger Guitar Man May 31, 2016 9:07 AM  

In short, all boomers and older Xers are like: "GET OFF MY LAWN."

I was born in 79, I enjoyed the song.

Blogger Starbuck May 31, 2016 9:14 AM  

Rap was a form of poetry set to music. Good poetry is hard, and most of it was lousy.

A little tidbit someone told me recently. RAP is actually a acronym, which stands for Rhythm And Poetry. Maybe its true, maybe it is not. Just I found it interesting.

As for music. Was never as "into" it as most of my fellow generational companions were. I had music I liked and that has drifted from one genre to another over the years. So at this time I do like a whole range of music. Old stuff, rock, even stuff from the 30's and 40's. I haven't been able to hear the newer stuff for the last 15 years or so. Just doesn't appeal to me. That's ok though, the younger kids seem to like it. As long as they don't blast it at me, I won't mind listening from a distance.

A-freaking-Men and no shit. The Boomers instance that their AM radio garbage was the best music ever created and everything else was completely and hopelessly inferior, was the first thing about them that I learned to hate.-Cataline

Wow.. I am a "baby boomer" and I have to say that many of the people who hate the boomers and their "crap" is very much like the baby boomers.. Just born a little later and with differently sounding "crap". You see there were many things about the boomers I actually loathe. Expression "Like Father, Like Son - Like Hell!" I actually hated that saying with a passion. I respected my father and I looked up to him, even with his faults.

As for "AM", what you talking about? I never listened to AM (Audio Modulation) radio growing up. FM (Frequency Modulation) was the stations that played the newest music when I was growing up.

Ironically, I listen to AM radio when going to work. I do like to listen to Coast to Coast AM.

Anonymous AB2000 May 31, 2016 9:15 AM  

"...and the fact that each time one is played it adds to the cumulative wear on one."

To me it makes sense that a naturally-decaying world should have an audio format that decays over time. Like me, vinyl is an imperfect creation that is fundamentally-changed by the passage of years.

It's telling the Boomer Generation seems obsessed with constantly buying new, shiny remasters of albums they already own, many times over. If this new version sounds even brighter and modern than it did to teenage ears, can the listener feel as if they haven't aged?

Anonymous Stickwick May 31, 2016 9:16 AM  

No, Virginia, Journey is not the musical pinnacle of the human experience. Neither, I am sorry to inform you, is Led Zeppelin, even if "Stairway to Heaven" was the #1 request on KQRS for the 42nd year in a row this year.

I just went through my CD collection for the first time in a decade, and tossed every Zeppelin album that was in there. I was obsessed with them in my early 20s, but two decades later, their stuff just sounds thick, plodding, and artless.

I don’t share your musical tastes even a little bit, but I enjoy your music posts nevertheless. It’s always interesting to see what sort of music other people are passionate about and why.

VFM #6306: They so deftly captured the outlook of desperation and nostalgia that I see in every millenial college kid:

A) The brittle co-ed desperate to prove her feminist cred while wishing she had a man to cook for.
B) The competent engineer who knows his job is waiting for an H1B.
C) The post-childhood kid who is simply worn out from having to constantly cross cultures without pissing anyone off.
D) The A student for whom his achievements never mean anything...because everyone gets a trophy.


Gen Xers ought to keep this in mind. We came of age during a highly optimistic time, and whatever bitterness we now have comes from the fact that the world has changed so much since then. That’s quite a different thing than never having had that optimism in the first place.

Anonymous JI May 31, 2016 9:20 AM  

I'd given up hope in the 90's and early 2000's that what I considered good music would ever be made again (i.e., a lot of 70's and 80's stuff). However, several years ago, a friend showed me how to find music on YouTube and wow, there is a lot of great music being made, it's just not commercial. The variety and quality have never been better, and, of course, access to the music via youtube/itunes/pandora/etc... far exceeds what was once stock in record stores.

Anonymous DiscipleofSheiko May 31, 2016 9:23 AM  

I never studied music. Won't claim to know the first thing about it. While I enjoy the Kung Fury soundtrack to death, I couldn't tell you if it was any good.

Also a millenial, so I've no musical allegiance at all.

Anonymous A Visitor May 31, 2016 9:24 AM  

VFM #1819: if you're reading this, didn't mean for my comment to come off as snotty (if it did even to begin with).

@8

Going off what Vox said, since I was born in '86, I remember the early '90s music quite well and can't stand to listen to it anymore for pretty much the reasons he said. Re: synthwave, I have a buddy in Spain to thank for introducing me to that. I'd have to say my favorite full length album, thus far, is Timecop1983's "Journeys". Though I only have the faintest memories of the '80s, looking back on music from that era, A Flock of Seagulls I remember well for some reason (no idea how I knew what "I Ran" was since it was before I was even born), it seems much more optimistic than what actually ended up happening. I remember a few short years ago reading in grad school Fukuyama's "The End of History" vs. Huntington's "The Clash of Civilizations." It's impressive how prescient Huntington was.

Responding to whomever said it on the OP, I'm a Millennial (an early one albeit) and am not a druggie. Sorry to disappoint.

And I think that the feeling of this current age, the youth--that feeling is one of despair, frustration, and pent up rage. Cold realism. A loss of empathy, and an embrace for crude things. That is what I identify with. Not because I choose to, but simply because this is the era I'm born into, and this is how I'm shaped.

Bingo! It's frustrating as hell watching the country fall apart, people continue on as if nothing has happened, etc. As Vox said, aggregately we may not be fighters but we certainly will raise them.

"The best part of that year was driving a student teacher to the whiskey bottle when he realized than none of us cared about Woodstock or the rolling stones... "

@9 :-)

"Some things, you simply have to experience to appreciate."

@13 Such as this...one of the many enduring memories of the tail end of my 6 months in Spain...8 years ago.

@16 I'm still living as if Strauss and Howe are right in their predictions. Frankly, expecting to be imprisoned or martyred for my faith at some point in my life.

@24 Can't stand dubstep...yet it's hilarious how Deadmau5 put Skrillex on his label despite hating dubstep.

@28 Well said

Anonymous Steve May 31, 2016 9:26 AM  

Chrom - Lel

Blogger YIH May 31, 2016 9:31 AM  

Another thing about what is now called ''classic rock'';
The music industry really burned out a lot of (yes they were) quite talented people.
Think what happened around 1980, many of the ''great 70's rock bands'' disintegrated. Drugs (cocaine mainly) were one big reason, but it was also the pressure they were put under. Write, record, go on North America (or world) tour. Year after year after year, pretty much with no letup. It's why many of them did gravitate to cocaine, is is a ''performance enhancing drug''. But like any other PED, it has it's quite nasty side effects. And like any other PED, the longer it's used, the worse those side effects become.
BTW, that's the real meaning of the AC/DC Highway to Hell.
No it wasn't really ''a love song to the Devil'', it was a musical rant about the really dreary existence they went through back then. Think about it, for a year straight you are living in a cramped tour bus, no privacy, eating shitty (and unfamiliar) fast food for most of your meals, going down highway after highway, to do concert after concert in a county where everyone does speak English but everything else is all wrong. The seasons are just the opposite of home (they're from Australia, remember?) and even the water swirls down the toilet bowl the wrong way.
Communication with home for them was an expensive ordeal, if the phone call even connected at all, and the quality was so poor you often couldn't hear what was being said on the other end - and you often has to repeat and shout so they could understand you.
At what by today's standards was super expensive ($10 - in 1970's dollars) per minute. And remember, the time differential? You had to carefully plan when to even make that phone call - assuming it could even be done.
Yeah for them life on the road for them was indeed hell.

Blogger Nate May 31, 2016 9:33 AM  

'In short, all boomers and older Xers are like: "GET OFF MY LAWN." "

Honestly I have no desire to hear anything from any millennial until they turn 40.

When they are 40... then... I will reconsider my position.

Blogger Verne May 31, 2016 9:41 AM  

One of your statements was a crushing reminder of how optimistic the late eighties were. I'm saying this as a seventies guy. That really wasn't time when everybody thought it was just good and getting better. I haven't seen such widespread optimism sense. Sadly that is for a good reason

Anonymous NateM May 31, 2016 9:42 AM  

Honestly don't get how someone could extol the music of the 60s (early anyways) and hate the 80s. In a way they share some of the traits that make them enjoyable. The 60s pop hit was upbeat, lyrically simple, and catchy. 80s music took that and added to it with a much different musical presentation, where anything went really. And even the songs where lyrics were more pessimistic it was disguised with a candy coating of shiny 80s sound.

Blogger CarpeOro May 31, 2016 9:48 AM  

At 51, I heard "Stressed Out" and could instantly relate to it. Looking at being out sourced for a second time after being treated as a contractor by my company - yeah, I am feeling stressed about the future. Oddly, when I was young I listened to older music to the extent my younger brother told me I needed to get out of the 60s. Over all however, I have appreciated bits and pieces from across the musical spectrum. Would I buy a Rap album? No. But I do sometimes find some of it amusing or interesting. I haven't been the guy to say "I hate x" regarding an entire genre for at least a couple of decades. I suprised some young nieces with the fact I enjoyed several Clean Bandit songs (bought a few on iTunes).

Blogger David-093 May 31, 2016 9:52 AM  

The only era of optimism Millennials ever had was the 90s when many of them (including me) were kids. The Xer pop rock of that time is remembered very fondly by Millennials, as well as all the tv shows and movies. Thats why Millennials are so nostalgic about their childhoods: it's the one time in their short lives that wasn't a massive disappointment.

Anonymous RedJack May 31, 2016 9:56 AM  

Somewhere along the way, I gravitated to old school Classical music and Johnny Cash. Which is more to do with my grandparents than anything else.

However, I did enjoy much of the music of my youth. But I never "connected" to it the way many do.

Blogger James Dixon May 31, 2016 10:00 AM  

> As for "AM", what you talking about? I never listened to AM (Audio Modulation)

That would be Amplitude Modulation.

Blogger Edward Isaacs May 31, 2016 10:01 AM  

Hey, having high empathy is great. I have to actively try to dislike certain things, because if I don't, I end up liking everything I hear. It's a good problem to have! The only downside is that I can't listen to sad music for too long without getting seriously blue.

Anyway, I consider Arcade Fire the best candidate that I know of for "voice of the generation." Maybe they aren't raw enough, though.

Blogger YIH May 31, 2016 10:02 AM  

Stickwick:
I just went through my CD collection for the first time in a decade, and tossed every Zeppelin album that was in there. I was obsessed with them in my early 20s, but two decades later, their stuff just sounds thick, plodding, and artless.
Yes, much of Zeppelin was - even then. When you're high or drunk a 15 minute long song with a 5 minute guitar solo seemed cool, not so much sober.
And Stairway to Heaven (Freebird as well) were even worse on radio. Not just the limited sound quality, but many radio stations usually played a heavily time-edited version.
They had to, usually they were distributed on two 45rpm 'singles' each of which, due to the format was limited to about 3 and a half minutes or so.
No, everything was not ''better back then''.

Anonymous Broken Arrow May 31, 2016 10:02 AM  

AB2000 wrote:

An interesting amount of the Millennials I speak with realise there is something very wrong with their Generation and are beginning to actively taking a stand against it.


Yes. They are also constantly preached at with articles like, "10 Things You Must Do Right Now as a Millennial". I'm going to assume they ignore most of this advice now as most advice given to them by their Boomer parents was wrong.

I see many Millennial men and women approaching 30 and suddenly realizing that their extended childhoods are over, and bills are starting to rack up. In response they are getting more serious about making money and looking for paying jobs and careers.


Before anyone yells at a cloud about this.
Better late than never!

Anonymous NateM May 31, 2016 10:05 AM  

David093-

I think you hit it right on the head. Hell I remember listening to early 90s grunge thinking it was too much of a downer, but I'd say it typifies my experience more than subsequent offerings of Chumbawumba

Nate- "Get off my lawn". Nailed it.

Though I just pray when millennials turn 40 they don't try to ape pop music the way 60s and 70s musicians like the ex Beatles and make a terrible hash of it.

But then I Still argue with my former history teacher when I tell him how massively overrated the Beatles were, even on their prime

Blogger Ghost May 31, 2016 10:05 AM  

The only major complaint I have with that song is rhyming fire with desire. I only hear Backstreet Boys/Metallica/Rage against the Machine/Churchian Worship Songs playing all at once when I hear fire rhymed with desire. It's more annoying to me than the girl/world rhyme. Other than that, it's a pretty good jam.

Blogger Edward Isaacs May 31, 2016 10:06 AM  

Hey, having high empathy is great. I have to actively try to dislike certain things, because if I don't, I end up liking everything I hear. It's a good problem to have! The only downside is that I can't listen to sad music for too long without getting seriously blue.

Anyway, I consider Arcade Fire the best candidate that I know of for "voice of the generation." Maybe they aren't raw enough, though.

Anonymous ThirdMonkey May 31, 2016 10:07 AM  

My wife was listening to 90's poppy junk while lifting in our garage this morning. Later that afternoon, she went to get her hair done and came home with a perm, I shit you not. I told her that if I caught her watching 90210 reruns, we were through. Thankfully, I was able to straighten her out with some Disturbed and Avenged Sevenfold.

I think it was Bach who said that the purpose of music was to glorify God and nourish the soul. However, most popular music glorifies self and reflects the soul, whether it be false optimism, shallowness, rage, or Millennial pessimism. After watching the video a couple of times, I get it, even though that particular genre is not my cup of tea.

Anonymous Sensei May 31, 2016 10:10 AM  

As a 41yr old man who grew up in a rural area silence is something I am comfortable. Millennials are constantly bombarded w static and information overload. Silence is probably very scary to them or its something they want to achieve but are not able too.

Speaking as an older millennial, silence to me is like a conspicuously white page. All the words or pictures in the world could fill that space, and typically do, so if it's left empty, there'd better be a good reason. (And yes, silences can be more meaningful than music or words, but from context and by comparison, not inherently)

Millennials also seem to frequently be plagued by an unshakable loneliness, and music or anything sufficiently distracting keeps one from needing to confront it.

Blogger YIH May 31, 2016 10:11 AM  

Can't stand dubstep...
Me neither :)

Blogger Sheila4g May 31, 2016 10:11 AM  

Since I grew up in a home where music was a constant (mainly classical/opera, but my father had quite broad tastes for a man of his age and time and brought home {he got free promotional records from his Library of Congress job} the first James Taylor album, the first Linda Ronstadt album, etc.), I appreciate silence. I never acquired the habit of listening to the radio as constant background noise and used to do the 7-8 hour drive to college in contented silence. Like many others, my musical taste was shaped from my youth, but not so much by what was on the radio. Certain songs evoke certain memories, certain beats work for certain purposes. I was never into Led Zeppelin or Journey or Prince. I loathed all rap from the beginning. I listen to 60s - 90s, and enjoy Ella Fitzgerald singing Cole Porter as well as Renaissance music played on original instruments including the hackbutt. I have a tape of country songs from a marine I dated in 1988, but other than that don't care for the genre. My older son listens to a great deal of European metal (some of it rather operatic); I appreciate some of the lyrics and their historic narrative but a lot of the music doesn't appeal. I've enjoyed the exposure to some of what's featured here (yes, even Baby Metal) but nothing's caught my fancy enough to become part of my regular listening, because I don't have ANY regular listening, other than when I'm at the gym - and then I'll often repeatedly play "Bat Out of Hell" (which I loathed when I first saw Meatloaf on SNL as a teen) to help channel my fury at all the diversity into a hard workout.

I'd go postal if I had to work somewhere with today's radio music on all the time - as it is I carry a pair of earplugs in my purse to block it or the ever-present television in waiting rooms anywhere.

Blogger Caedryn Stonelaw May 31, 2016 10:12 AM  

Stickwick wrote:Gen Xers ought to keep this in mind. We came of age during a highly optimistic time, and whatever bitterness we now have comes from the fact that the world has changed so much since then. That’s quite a different thing than never having had that optimism in the first place.

Yup, as a millenial, and one that was right on the cusp of the transition between GenX and GenY, That is it exactly. I'm old enough to remember there not being an internet when i was a child, about the same time Nirvana was reaching it's height. But I watched in a decade kids go from playing with each other on the weekends to not talking to each other at the same table due to cell phones. I was there when I could play until 11 pm at night with friends in their suburb, then Timothy Thomas got shot and I never saw another child outside after dark, or kids without chaperones on halloween. I watched at a young age everything the Xers are bitter about now crumble, and didn't realize at the time they weren't supposed to be broken. I get why silence is scary to a millenial, We know better than we are, but if we stopped to think about it, we'd burn this whole fucking thing down.

I've gone to sleep with ear buds in to keep out all kinds stuff before. The loneliness of watching a family fray, failed relationships, doubts in my belief, lack of purpose, second guessing of all my decisions, running commentary on why I keep failing, whether i will ever love another person or if i'm spent, so on and so forth. So, I guess this song resonates with me, but I'm also a millenial.

Contra that, I've also been a world champion in karate, a member of the 1000, hold 3 patents in three separate areas of specialty, and am an owner in 2 businesses. Music is a salve in a lot of ways, but it can also be static, good or bad.

Since we're talking music, I'll link the song that broke me; that forced the 20 something to actually get out of the despair that dwelled for more than a decade. Gotta Knock a Little Harder

Anonymous Broken Arrow May 31, 2016 10:13 AM  

David-093 wrote:The only era of optimism Millennials ever had was the 90s when many of them (including me) were kids. The Xer pop rock of that time is remembered very fondly by Millennials, as well as all the tv shows and movies. Thats why Millennials are so nostalgic about their childhoods: it's the one time in their short lives that wasn't a massive disappointment.

Sympathies. I remember in 2007 right before the crash seeing some Millennials showing up at work as interns. Their parents dressed them so nicely and they were positive, enthusiastic, well educated, and did I mention snappy dressers?

At the time I was thinking, "How can I compete with these kids? They have everything handed to them for success. At their age I was making $7 an hour in a scummy apartment with some dope smokers."

18 months later the Great Recession began and Millennials' lives changed forever. The problem really wasn't the Recession, but rather that their parents hadn't prepared them for hardship. Was it better that we Xers are so cynical we expected things to go to shit? I don't know, but I do know that it hardened us.

David-093, we can invite you to become an honorary Xer if you'd like. Embrace the suck!

Blogger Mr. Naron May 31, 2016 10:15 AM  

I disagree about the production aspect. In the Pro Tools age, a lot of stuff sounds overproduced. That is, of course, subjective. One man's overproduced is another's well produced. But when it comes to rock, especially, there needs to be some imperfections. The good hard rock, prog rock and metal stuff from the 70s and early 80s still sounds good today. I don't get that comparison to the 50s at all. Sure, some of the New Wave of British Heavy Metal stuff was poorly produced. Too much reverb. But the songs are so good you get over it.

Good "new" hard rock acts like The Darkness have kept a lot of the old techniques, and they sound amazing. The Foo Fighters' last good album, Wasting Light, was recorded on the old equipment.

Heck, look at U2. Their last two albums were awful because they were overproduced. I'm sure there were some good songs on them had they not been tortured beyond recognition by Danger Mouse.

Blogger Nate May 31, 2016 10:16 AM  

"I just went through my CD collection for the first time in a decade, "


....

WHY DO YOU HAVE A CD COLLECTION???

Anonymous Quartermaster May 31, 2016 10:17 AM  

I never pushed any sort of music on the kids. They listened to what was contemporary, and then listened to what my wife and I generally preferred. They ended up preferring what their parents liked. That included some from the 80s, but nothing from the 90s on.

None of them like the Moody Blues. I guess I had to fail somewhere. :-)

Blogger David-093 May 31, 2016 10:17 AM  

@78

Most Millennials ignore them. In fact, they outright mock them. One example was:

Boomer: You want a super fun office
Millennial: I want to pay the bills
Boomer: No, you want beanbag chairs

It's that type of shit that's irritating. They imagine that Millennials are young so they want stupid stuff, when in reality, over a third are still living at home, and most just want a job so they can support themselves.

Blogger Ben Cohen May 31, 2016 10:18 AM  

Born in 87 here. I can't speak for anyone my age but many friends and I have always loved 80s music the most because it seemed to be from a simpler, funner, and more carefree time. When you see the world melting down on 911 and in 2008 you want to leave it for your youth.

The only concerts we used to go to were rock bands that were popular in the 80s because they were having a good time, as opposed to the generally depressing 90s and 00s music.

The 80s seemed to be the last decade that America was a cohesive country.

Blogger YIH May 31, 2016 10:22 AM  

For many years Orlando's ''classic rock'' radio station was 96.5. About 5 years ago even they got sick of it.
It's news/talk now ;)

Blogger Nate May 31, 2016 10:24 AM  

" most just want a job so they can support themselves."

sure. if by "a job so they can support themselves" you mean they want a job that pays them 100k a year to sit on their asses and make memes and text their friends all day.

Anonymous Wooly Phlox May 31, 2016 10:25 AM  

Vox, and everyone on this thread: get out of my head.

We're in a music renaissance right now.

Twenty One Pilots, Mumford and Sons, Of Monsters and Men, Highasakite (!), Halsey, and a thousand more artists are creating great music with a POINT. Most of whom you will never hear on FM or AM.

I remember having a backpack full of Phish cassette tapes. When I stopped taking hallucinogens, I stopped listening to them, and the whole genre.

I like music to have meaning, not just space-jam instrument skill -- Phish was, in hindsight, the lyrical equivalent of Jackson Pollock's art, or a full career based on Springsteen's "Blinded by the Light", or the idiot city sculptures of Calder.

What did the Phishhead say when he ran out of drugs? Damn, this music sucks.

I'll be looking for new music when I'm 90.

If I hear Hotel California one more time... full Samuel Jackson, "Play it again. I double dare you, m'fer" I don't need to hear it again. One million listens is enough.

Last night I watched Rosalia Gomez Lashera perform Chopin's Pianoconcerto #2. Tonight I'll probably be listening to Billie Holiday or Bluetech. Haven't decided.

Anonymous ashv May 31, 2016 10:26 AM  

@8

Yeah, when Vox said "millennials appreciating the various musical innovations of the 80s" I immediately thought of synthwave. It isn't the music of the 80s, it's the music the 80s thought would be today's music.

There's definitely the terminators-and-zombies aspect to some synthwave but there's a lot that just captures the social/technological optimism that still existed in the 80s -- Nightstop and Waveshaper did some of this. I think of it as the music from _Back To The Future_'s alternate-1985 where Marty's dad wasn't so beta.

Anonymous Sensei May 31, 2016 10:30 AM  

@86 Since we're talking music, I'll link the song that broke me; that forced the 20 something to actually get out of the despair that dwelled for more than a decade. Gotta Knock a Little Harder

"Are You Living In The Real World?"

Chillbumps, every single time.

Anonymous JP May 31, 2016 10:34 AM  

"Write, record, go on North America (or world) tour. Year after year after year, pretty much with no letup. It's why many of them did gravitate to cocaine, is is a 'performance enhancing drug.' But like any other PED, it has it's quite nasty side effects."

Very true. I read a few articles about Skynyrd, and their touring schedule was insane. Even before their plan crash, singer Ronnie Van Zandt was spitting up blood on stage and having other health problems in his 20s.

While I used to think their songs exaggerated their brawling, drunken antics, they were probably worse than their songs indicated. They regularly fought with each other and anyone who got in their way.

I think 80s pro wrestlers were the closest thing to 60/70s superbands. The same crazy schedule on the road mixed with PEDs, recreational drugs, heavy drinking, etc. I haven't followed "wrasslin" since I was a kid, but at least half of the big names I remember died in their 40s and 50s.

You can't just explain it by roid use, either. If that were the only factor, almost all of the 70s bodybuilders and half the 70s/80s NFL players would be deadw (especially the Steelers teams from their Superbowl era).

Blogger Caedryn Stonelaw May 31, 2016 10:37 AM  

Nate wrote:" most just want a job so they can support themselves."

sure. if by "a job so they can support themselves" you mean they want a job that pays them 100k a year to sit on their asses and make memes and text their friends all day.



Even though its of my own choice to support my family, I'd really like to be paid more than 35k a year to be an engineer. I could barely support myself on my own at that wage, let alone a family. There are more like me than most realize. Many millenials went into the careers they did out of some obligation/coercion of their family. Mine was a bit different than that, but I saw it enough in my 8 years of professional tutoring to know it to be the case. Millenials and whatever they're calling the new generation now receive no guidance or training for life outside of 'go to college and figure out what you want to do there' when we all know that is far too late.

OpenID dantealiegri May 31, 2016 10:38 AM  

The entire album is quite good.

People mistake music; it's like beer; have an ipa by itself, and a miller lite with a burger in the back yard.

Anonymous Trailer Trash May 31, 2016 10:38 AM  

@94

Lol at the househusband meme-ing up VP at 1030AM on Tuesday while his wife pays their bills telling anyone about "a job so they can support themselves". Don't you have some laundry to do and sammiches to make for the pants-wearer when she gets home, instead of filling up yet another thread with your drivel?

Blogger Starbuck May 31, 2016 10:42 AM  

Amplitude Modulation

yes, you are correct. The audio is on the amplitude.. I stand corrected.
Been a while...

Anonymous Athor Pel May 31, 2016 10:43 AM  

"63. Anonymous Stickwick May 31, 2016 9:16 AM
...
Gen Xers ought to keep this in mind. We came of age during a highly optimistic time, and whatever bitterness we now have comes from the fact that the world has changed so much since then. That’s quite a different thing than never having had that optimism in the first place."


I'm reading this scratching my head. Late eighties were optimistic? Really? I don't remember that at all. Then I realized I spent 86 to 90 in the Air Force and 1988 in Korea waiting for the North Koreans to drop bombs on me. Don't drink soju.

I didn't want to go to Korea, was generally disgruntled to be there and for me I drank a lot. I remember my roomate would listen to Level 42 a lot. That particular album was very upbeat. He played it so much it almost became annoying, no, it was annoying. But a few years after leaving Korea I bought the album myself and still listen to it periodically.

Shitty things are going to happen. How you react to them is what is important.

Anonymous Broken Arrow May 31, 2016 10:44 AM  

Nate wrote:" most just want a job so they can support themselves."

sure. if by "a job so they can support themselves" you mean they want a job that pays them 100k a year to sit on their asses and make memes and text their friends all day.



I wonder how many times a week Millennials here the same message of "Make more money!" after 25 years of "Follow your dreams!".

Anonymous BGKB May 31, 2016 10:45 AM  

classic BMW for doing what it did first while understanding that the modern car is simply a much better automobile across the board

Many modern cars (in the US market)would be considered totaled if just their air bags went off when five years old. US regs force manufacturers to give US crappy cars chasing diminishing returns on emissions, which to still have safety requires a lot of airbags. That's one of the reasons VW realized the affirmative action government workers would never notice their emissions chip.

That singer is a whiny little bitch. I prefer Sabaton

I don't like whiny little bitches either. ;)

Thug culture emerged when political correctness prevented sober minds from calling it the garbage that it is

It happened when too many station (((owners))) decided to push it.

Blogger YIH May 31, 2016 10:49 AM  

NateM wrote:David093-

I think you hit it right on the head. Hell I remember listening to early 90s grunge thinking it was too much of a downer, but I'd say it typifies my experience more than subsequent offerings of Chumbawumba

Nate- "Get off my lawn". Nailed it.

Though I just pray when millennials turn 40 they don't try to ape pop music the way 60s and 70s musicians like the ex Beatles and make a terrible hash of it.

But then I Still argue with my former history teacher when I tell him how massively overrated the Beatles were, even on their prime

You know who's even more overrated? Their inspiration, Elvis Presley. I can never understand why he's quite literally worshiped.
He, more than anything else, is why I have skepticism about 'conspiracy theories'. I do indeed believe the guy croaked from an OD on the toilet. And his music career was dead even before he was. The man was a trainwreck before he died, lots of drugs.
He pretty much defined ''dying as an excellent career move''.

Blogger James Dixon May 31, 2016 10:49 AM  

> I stand corrected.

We all have those days, Starbuck. :)

Anonymous #8601 Jean Valjean May 31, 2016 10:50 AM  

Throwing my hat in for the Aryan Goddess, Taylor Swift.

Blogger James Dixon May 31, 2016 10:57 AM  

> Their inspiration, Elvis Presley. I can never understand why he's quite literally worshiped.

I'd recommend you re-listen to "Love Me Tender" sometime.

Anonymous ZhukovG May 31, 2016 10:57 AM  

As an old X'er, I have found something to enjoy in all genres of music. My personal ‘Song of Hope’ that now only causes depression is from 1990; Wind of Change by the Scorpions. In hindsight it was stupidly optimistic.

I feel for the Millennials, they’re going to have to do the heavy lifting to fix the West, if it’s to be fixed. Hopefully we X’ers will act as their allies in this task. I see too many, mostly aging Boomers, that seem content to just snipe from the sidelines.

Blogger Nate May 31, 2016 10:58 AM  

"Even though its of my own choice to support my family, I'd really like to be paid more than 35k a year to be an engineer."

Did you consider actually researching engineer salaries before picking it as a profession?

I'm sure teachers think they should make more than 35k a year too.

Blogger Nate May 31, 2016 11:00 AM  

"I wonder how many times a week Millennials here the same message of "Make more money!" after 25 years of "Follow your dreams!". "

Oh for fucks sake. Gen X was fed the same bullshit. So now we have to feel sorry for them because they were stupid enough to believe it?

Blogger Nick S May 31, 2016 11:06 AM  

Every generation believes they have an enlightened perspective. Turns out, even if it's true at all, it's fleeting. Always. Any claims to perturbations in the MPAI continuum are pure fantasy.

Blogger VD May 31, 2016 11:10 AM  

The 80s seemed to be the last decade that America was a cohesive country.

It was. Diversity began in 1988. I remember very clearly how bizarre we all thought it was that they suddenly started talking about it at our almost lily-white university.

Anonymous Smile Of The Shadow May 31, 2016 11:15 AM  

All that's great but have you listened to this:

....kidding.

Blogger Caedryn Stonelaw May 31, 2016 11:15 AM  

Nate wrote:"Even though its of my own choice to support my family, I'd really like to be paid more than 35k a year to be an engineer."

Did you consider actually researching engineer salaries before picking it as a profession?

I'm sure teachers think they should make more than 35k a year too.



Yes, median entry salary for my profession is 67k. I have almost a decade of experience, and an impressive portfolio of work, including robots you can't pay a robotics house to design and another project that will blow my industry away, as soon as my boomer parents and management cant get their shit together to put people on finishing production streamlining on what I've already built. I know what I'm worth, I know what I've been offered (5x as much), those things don't matter. I do it for family because its the right thing to do, because it's legacy and tradition. But it certainly doesn't mean i don't realize the cause and effect of boomer philosophy on the millenial generation. Both monetarily and culturally. Hell, wait till you see the next one. I'm already dealing with kids that don't know how to make emotions on their faces because their GenX parents have permitted them to stick their noses in their phones rather than actually talk to people. Makes play season a bitch.

Anonymous Broken Arrow May 31, 2016 11:17 AM  

@109 Gen Z is going to have to do most of the heavy lifting, IMO.

@111 Nate, think about why we didn't believe the BS. Since we aren't special there were outside influences on us which told us not to believe the lies, the Millennials obviously didn't have the same influences.

Regardless many Millennials are just now figuring out the lies, at 30(!). I expect the reaction over the next couple of years (especially after Bernie does not get the nomination, and particularly if Hillary wins) will be a massive over correction of some type from the Millennials.

After Obama let them down, the DNC rigged the process to select Hillary, and then that crusty old Boomer screws them all again? Possibly pitchforks.

Blogger Nate May 31, 2016 11:21 AM  

" Diversity began in 1988. I remember very clearly how bizarre we all thought it was that they suddenly started talking about it at our almost lily-white university."

it didn't trickle down into TN until the 90s... I remember though in 1994 having a blonde chick from minnesota tell me all about how her mom taught diversity classes up there.

I just took it as further evidence that anything further north than the ohio river was useless.

Blogger Nate May 31, 2016 11:22 AM  

"Regardless many Millennials are just now figuring out the lies, at 30(!). "

**smh**

You and Vox... such pollyannas.

Blogger Nate May 31, 2016 11:27 AM  

"
Yes, median entry salary for my profession is 67k"

Depending on your type of engineering I suppose. GE is hiring engineers for 25k right our of college.

25k.

Because engineers are now a dime a dozen... and have been for a decade.

Monkeys with overhead welding certifications make 3 times what you make. Because supply and demand.

Anonymous Kudos The Lexecutioner May 31, 2016 11:35 AM  

VD - "I'll never forget hearing Tommy Lee waxing on about what great musicians the guys in Duran Duran were, at a time when every Motley Crue fan would have dismissed them out of hand."

In "The Decline of Western Civilization - Part II, The Metal Years," Penelope Spheeris' classic documentary, Paul Stanley of KISS effuses about what great songwriters ABBA were. Because, they were. Not my cup of tea, and probably most KISS fans wouldn't be caught dead listening to "Waterloo" or "Mama Mia," but you have to respect the talent.

OpenID dantealiegri May 31, 2016 11:36 AM  

Note to self, stop buying all GE products ..

Blogger Ahazuerus May 31, 2016 11:38 AM  

Kudos

Not only the talent, but the craftsmanship. They were trite pop songs for the most part, but they were beautifully crafted trite pop songs, by a couple of master craftsmen

Blogger Nate May 31, 2016 11:40 AM  

"Note to self, stop buying all GE products .. "

the rookie engineers are glorified personnel managers. you should hear some of the horror stories. some chick engineer... fresh out of school... had never seen lock washers before. Had no idea what they were and actually wrote a mechanic up for keeping "broken washers" in his toolbox.

Anonymous Stickwick May 31, 2016 11:40 AM  

Nate: WHY DO YOU HAVE A CD COLLECTION???

Not to open a can of worms here, but if it's an album I'll cherish, I still buy the CD, because it seems risky not to. It feels more permanent if there's something tangible in my hands, I can still rip it and put it on a device, and no corporation can decide for whatever reason that it shouldn't be in my library anymore.

Blogger Nate May 31, 2016 11:42 AM  

" because it seems risky not to. "

CDs are a million times more fragile than a hard drive is.

Blogger Clay, Bill Clay May 31, 2016 11:43 AM  

First of all, i had no idea Jay Baruchel could sing like that.

Second, I liked the post and ended up spending an hour going through a number of their songs. I was only familiar with that good ol days hit which struck me as clever and catchy and different though I admit i looked down my nose a little at the mellenialness of the lyrics, so Vox's point is well taken.

I'm impressed. There wasn't a dud in the box. And the subtext is good stuff too. If you read their bio and read some interviews its clear these guys have integrity. It reminds me a little of the backround chapters from U2 At The End Of The World. I'm not comparing the two bands, just the attitude and general professional posture. Old souls trying hard.

Anonymous Kudos The Lexecutioner May 31, 2016 11:45 AM  

@22 Jason - "I make a conscious effort to listen to new music. You only have a limited time on Earth so might as well experience as much of it as possible."

I had a friend introduce me to South African rap-rave group Die Antwoord. Neither rap nor rave is my thing, but "I Fink You Freaky" is ... compelling. It has become a guilty pleasure akin to binging on a dozen Krispy Kreme doughnuts. Sooo good in the moment, but then I feel like crap after.

Blogger B.J. May 31, 2016 11:45 AM  

Speaking of KQRS, Tom Barnard used to be really funny and edgy back in the day, until SJWs took the teeth out of his best bits by making sponsors antsy. 93x will probably be next.

Anonymous Jill May 31, 2016 11:46 AM  

I didn't read the comments section on the previous post, but I'm familiar w/ the song you posted from some of our Pandora channels. There is a certain euphoric sadness in this style of music.

Blogger Caedryn Stonelaw May 31, 2016 11:51 AM  

Nate wrote:"

Yes, median entry salary for my profession is 67k"

Depending on your type of engineering I suppose. GE is hiring engineers for 25k right our of college.

25k.

Because engineers are now a dime a dozen... and have been for a decade.

Monkeys with overhead welding certifications make 3 times what you make. Because supply and demand.


Chemical engineer, though I do a lot more mechanical at work and only occasionally chem. Also, the offer I talked about earlier was directly from GE for a molding operation, I've taken a quick peek, and find nothing about 25K engineer salaries, so if you have links, I'd like to see em. (especially if it means I can wiggle another one onto staff for cheap, which would be a godsend) You're missing the point, however.

Many millenials didn't go into adulthood looking to make money as a primacy, but for nonmonetary reasons, and often, the wrong reasons. But we were told nothing but the wrong reasons all our lives, and yet, people are surprised by the results. Tie that in with the removal of skilled trade training or even promotion in schools, missing shop classes and other issues, and its a miracle some of us go one to make something of ourselves at all.

Millenials aren't necessarily the spoiled generation so much as they are nihilist generation. We'v been told culture, religion, society, family, laws, sex, and everything else doesn't matter. Sad part is many of us applied those lessons to ourselves as well. Why do you think tumblrisms are so unfortunately popular?

Blogger tweell May 31, 2016 11:51 AM  

Musical training helps expand music tastes, IMHO. Learning an instrument and playing music gives an appreciation of skill when heard, even if the type isn't your cup of tea. This is another place where millenials have been robbed - school money that once went to music has been taken to provide diversity training and phony-baloney diversity administrator jobs.

My high school had an orchestra, band, choir, jazz band and rock band. The band director had a jazz background - Count Basie and Woody Herman played gigs at the auditorium! Now, the marching band is all that's left. But hey, diversity!

OpenID malcolmthecynic May 31, 2016 11:52 AM  

xkcd has two really good ones relevant here.

https://xkcd.com/132/

https://xkcd.com/193/

Blogger Nate May 31, 2016 11:54 AM  

"I've taken a quick peek, and find nothing about 25K engineer salaries, so if you have links, I'd like to see em. "

Family has worked at GE for decades. I don't know from reading it on a webpage. For the record we're talking bachelors degrees here. Even back in the mid 90s when I graduated all the engineers knew that if they wanted to make real money they had to at least get a masters.

I would be shocked if you couldn't get some rookie engineer to work for you for 25k. The fact is we have a glut of engineers... not a shortage.

Anonymous rienzi May 31, 2016 11:54 AM  

If you think your reviews of popular music of the last half-century are tough, consider this:

"Is it music, yes or no? If I am answered in the affirmative, I would say that this does not belong to the art which I am in the habit of considering music."

A. OULIBICHCHEV commenting on Beethoven's 5th. symphony, 1857.

Now that is one truly hard-ass critic.





Anonymous FP May 31, 2016 11:57 AM  

@86

"Gotta Knock a Little Harder"

Yoko Kanno and the Seatbelts. The music made that tv show.

Any tolerance or appreciation I had for the Beatles died when having to listen to them for an hour in a full body scanner where you can't move.

Anonymous Jack Amok May 31, 2016 11:58 AM  

For those of us on the older side of each generation, the music we listen to first in our teenage years is made by people from the previous generation. It's not until our late 20's that most of us really have a chance to listen to music from our own generation.

So the Millennials have only just started in the last few years to make their own music heard.

Blogger Ingot9455 May 31, 2016 12:01 PM  

I must say that after the Millenial lad put on the balaclava, I expected the rest of the video to be a percussive school shooting. It was not, as advertised, what I expected.

Blogger Nate May 31, 2016 12:02 PM  

" I expected the rest of the video to be a percussive school shooting."

would've been so much better...

Blogger Caedryn Stonelaw May 31, 2016 12:03 PM  

Nate wrote:"Family has worked at GE for decades. I don't know from reading it on a webpage. For the record we're talking bachelors degrees here. Even back in the mid 90s when I graduated all the engineers knew that if they wanted to make real money they had to at least get a masters.

Funnily enough, at GMI they straight up told students to not bother getting a masters unless you were going into research, or the company you were already working for was willing to pay for it. It just didn't boost your technical prowess enough to make a difference. Of course, that was a school with a heavy emphasis on practical work and forced co-ops. I made more money during my internships in college than I make now, but again, that was my choice.

Blogger Austin Ballast May 31, 2016 12:05 PM  

Some prefer a few menu items, others want a whole range and to taste something different all the time.

That doesn't make one better or worse than another, just different.

I may find late 70s early 80s music more pleasant to my ears (in general if not specific examples). That doesn't mean your choices are better if you want a little whiny, as in the posted example. I did not sample all their music, but I don't listen to a whole lot of it much, even what I noted above.

Pushing the idea that your tastes are the truly best is a bit egotistical. Though it is your blog, so such proclamations do have merit.

Blogger Caedryn Stonelaw May 31, 2016 12:06 PM  

FP wrote:@86

"Gotta Knock a Little Harder"

Yoko Kanno and the Seatbelts. The music made that tv show.


She's a legitimate crazy person, but makes phenomenal music. For anyone who was a fan of her work in that show or even just jazz in general, please check out Kids on the Slope (sakamichi no apollon).

Anonymous Stickwick May 31, 2016 12:09 PM  

Athor Pel: I'm reading this scratching my head. Late eighties were optimistic? Really? I don't remember that at all. Then I realized I spent 86 to 90 in the Air Force and 1988 in Korea waiting for the North Koreans to drop bombs on me. Don't drink soju.

Most of the Eighties were optimistic, regardless of whether you personally or the entire generation found the last two years of it not so great. In any case, your personal experience doesn’t define the experience for an entire generation. Most of us were not in Korea waiting for bombs to be dropped on us.

Nate: CDs are a million times more fragile than a hard drive is.

Sure, but that’s not relevant to the point I made. There are stories of corporations deciding you shouldn’t have something in your media library, and pulling it back. It irks the crap out of me that they can even do this, so I make sure to have something tangible, which can also be conveniently stored on a hard drive.

Anonymous map May 31, 2016 12:11 PM  

Lot of great stuff on youtube.

Volbeat
Avenged Sevenfold
Billy Talent

Lot's of amateurs doing interesting stuff.

Anonymous Sir_Chancealot May 31, 2016 12:15 PM  

Usually, it takes a sledge hammer and a 2x4 to pound subtext into my brain from songs. Not with that 21 Pilots tune. I get what the kid was saying 5 seconds into it. This song is almost like poetry set to music, rather than music proper. From what little I know about music, I agree with Vox. This band has some musical chops.

I took up playing guitar two years ago. I have a program that shows me what notes to play and when to play them. I am not a musician, but wanted a fun hobby. Anyway, I say that to lay the groundwork for this next comment.

One of the most surprising things to me was how some of the songs that I liked were incredibly repetitive and boring to play, and some of the songs I didn't much care for were incredibly fun to play. That simple fact gave me a better appreciation of musical genres that may not be to my taste. One of the songs I downloaded on a drunken whim, but turned out really fun to play? "Call Me, Maybe". Never was a Sabbath fan, but Iron Man and Paranoid are fun to play too. (I would love to play more Ozzy stuff, but I literally cannot keep up with Randy Rhodes.)

One of the rules I set for myself, I wish someone had told me when I was a kid. "Never make fun of a man's taste in music."

The 21 Pilots tune seems to me to be a legitimate gripe.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. These Millenials are much more than some people give them credit for. They've been lied to all their lives, by society, by culture, and even some of their music. But they are waking up. They're going to be just fine. I think one would be very remiss to discount them as warriors just yet.

Blogger Elder Son May 31, 2016 12:16 PM  

Babymetal is at, least, fun. And, they are cute, in all their glorious dancing and school dress charm. And all is right, at least for now. This, must be Shakespeare. Like desperation, written on a wall, in a war-torn subway. Hope deferred makes the heart sick. I beg you. It's in the neon lights. The Sounds of Silence.

Blogger VD May 31, 2016 12:16 PM  

Pushing the idea that your tastes are the truly best is a bit egotistical. Though it is your blog, so such proclamations do have merit.

My tastes are not the best. They're not even refined; I quite like some very vulgar and deplorable music. But, unlike most people, I know why I like what I like, and I can correctly distinguish between those with genuine musical talent and those without it.

So, if I tell you a band is good, they very likely are good at what they do. That does not mean you will like them. There are many great musicians who can't write a compelling three-chord pop song to save their lives.

Anonymous patrick kelly May 31, 2016 12:34 PM  

I appreciate the effort to put some pretty good poetry to the music of their generation. No-matter what the style or instrumentation, I've made an effort the last 20 years to find value in production, composition, lyrics and musicianship whatever form or mix they take. Sometimes I think I can hear the passion and years of blood sweat and tears someone puts into it.

Years ago when I first heard of Lady Gaga there was a TV performance she did that just left me in jaw-dropping awe. Not my preferred genre, but damn, she could sure play piano and sing.

Some artists just have the whole package. Prince as has been recently discussed for example. As much as I dug discovering his legit guitar skillz, I would not find them particularly special if separated from the rest of his legacy. It all works together, like a recipe or a formula, creating something much better than any particular ingredient.

Admittedly as a guy who drank the electric guitar kool-aid ever since I heard my first Beatles/Stones/Who etc. riff on the radio it's difficult for me to open up and receive modern electronic music without a "get off my lawn" knee-jerk reaction. For a few years I made part of my living from composing and producing or editing and integrating the stuff into video games or other media, but I never really got very good at it. (the composing, the rest was more successful).

Blogger lowercaseb May 31, 2016 12:38 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger lowercaseb May 31, 2016 12:40 PM  

They may not have the answers, but they are asking the right questions. And they may not be the fighters, but they will raise them.

Late to the comments, but this statement really wakes me up about the millennials. Every GenXer like me should print this out and post it above their computer.

We are no longer the protagonists of this nation's story...they are. We are the mentor that gives them the advice to reach within to find the source of their courage and wisdom.

Anonymous LastRedoubt May 31, 2016 12:44 PM  

First - thanks for the posts. I STILL haven't taken the time to listen to the song - busy - and yeah, was guilty of a "me too" reply to the "workout music" bit you quoted.

I'll give it a listen.

I've never put thought to it, but if the observation that most people are stuck in their childhood/formative musical tastes is true, the closest I come to that is still cueing up some DM, Malmsteen, Satriani, and Stuart Hamm on occasion, with some of those influences leading me into the modern, more symphonic end of metal, as well as trance and deep house.

There are some noticeable echoes in what's come back around, but very little of what I listen to now is from my HS and college years - it's mostly earlier (classical) or post 2000.

My son's tastes run to either the Beatles, or current music. While it's been hit or miss insofar as suiting my tastes, a lot of what he's put on when visiting has been far more interesting than modern pop, and far more sophisticated than much of what I grew up with.

Anonymous GreyS May 31, 2016 12:46 PM  

Everyone has their own tastes and reasons for listening-- which makes it almost impossible to play a successful "but listen to this!" game. And with the tech now there are so so many bands and artists on the landscape that something interesting is easy to miss.

Most music of any era is dull and copycat, and in every era talented artists must work within the given framework of that era. I would've passed these twenty one guys right by if they weren't pointed out to me. Anyone reading the lyrics should easily understand the depth this little guy has, and the fact that one of their other videos has 400 million views shows they are speaking to and for their generation-- those two facts together should generate a lot of thought (just as in an opposite way we see the culture reflected in the movie "Idiocracy".)

Seems to me there are a certain % of very talented artists in every generation. Differing talents, different eras, different problems each has to solve. And different goals among the artists in each generation-- Some want to do great work, others want to make money or be famous, often while faking they want to make great work. Heck-- a lot of those 60s and 70s songs are by complete fakers. "Who Let the Dogs Out" has MUCH more artistic honesty than most of those hallowed songs and singers.

Blogger YIH May 31, 2016 12:46 PM  

malcolmthecynic wrote:xkcd has two really good ones relevant here.

https://xkcd.com/132/

https://xkcd.com/193/

LOL, Metallica stopped being relevant about the same time Napster did.

Blogger Speaker to Heaving Bosoms May 31, 2016 12:49 PM  

I was prepared to hate Twenty One Pilots.

Now there are two vinyl albums in my Amazon cart.

Anonymous LastRedoubt May 31, 2016 1:02 PM  

@YIH

LOL, Metallica stopped being relevant about the same time Napster did.

Wait, did they do anything after the black album? (I kid... sortof...)

Anonymous A Visitor May 31, 2016 1:03 PM  

"Even though its of my own choice to support my family, I'd really like to be paid more than 35k a year to be an engineer.'

Did you consider actually researching engineer salaries before picking it as a profession?

I'm sure teachers think they should make more than 35k a year too."

@98 & (by extension since he wrote the rest) @110

Sorry to hear you're getting dropped that low for a chem engineering degree. I have a friend who is an electrical engineer and makes $90k a year. I got another who's a chem e making about $50-60k now. Come to Indy.

"Many millenials went into the careers they did out of some obligation/coercion of their family. "

Speaking for my siblings, not of us were coerced into our careers.

My brother is an opthalmologist because he saw what electrical engineers typically do for work and decided he didn't want that (though he still got his bachelor's in electrical engineering).

One of my sisters went into medical school because she did nursing prior to that.

I went into my current profession because what I really wanted to do I kept getting rejected for and my holdover job was absolutely horrendous. The feds ended up liquidating that company a few months after I quit. And for the record, no, I never have wanted to do medicine nor will I ever do it for work.

"Regardless many Millennials are just now figuring out the lies, at 30(!). I expect the reaction over the next couple of years (especially after Bernie does not get the nomination, and particularly if Hillary wins) will be a massive over correction of some type from the Millennials. "

@116 Proud to say I didn't vote for Dear Leader in '08 or '12; knew what he was about from the beginning. Any of my generation that vote for THE BERN should be burned...at the stake!

"Note to self, stop buying all GE products .."

@121 My buddy, the EE that makes 90k, did his co-op at GE...thinks he may have been responsible for shipping the jobs to Mexico.

@125 Remember Vox's post about Apple deleting music files a few posts back? That's why I still buy CDs too.

@127 I was drinking with a friend and few classmates from high school one night and one of them put on "Fatty Boom Boom." Yeah, that killed Die Antwoord for me. That's all I think of now when I hear them.

Blogger Paul Leavenworth May 31, 2016 1:09 PM  

Yes I will admit my favorite music is still what came out of cassette tapes in my bedroom when I was 13-18 years old. The Smiths, The Police, Minor Threat, The Misfits, etc. it may be dated and technologically primitive but it still has the power to make me get chills down my spine.

If that makes me an old fogey so be it.

Blogger Speaker to Heaving Bosoms May 31, 2016 1:14 PM  

A Visitor wrote:I was drinking with a friend and few classmates from high school one night and one of them put on "Fatty Boom Boom." Yeah, that killed Die Antwoord for me. That's all I think of now when I hear them.

"Fatty Boom Boom" is what sealed the deal for me.

Anonymous David-093 May 31, 2016 1:16 PM  

@149

"We are no longer the protagonists of this nation's story...they are. We are the mentor that gives them the advice to reach within to find the source of their courage and wisdom."

The time for Xers to do what they were called for is now. This Crisis will need their grounded, realistic, and hard-edged mindset to guide the legions of naive and inexperienced but eager Millennials through it. Xers have a big part to play, but the war is not for them to fight now, it's for Millennials. Xers and Millennials are in this together, and it's about damn time both realize it.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 31, 2016 1:16 PM  

I did not say music peaked in 1974. Most of the music from 1974 was dreck, and that was literally the middle of that 14-19 yo youff. Personally, I think American pop peaked in 1934 and we're living off the remnants and leftovers.

I listen to old geezer music. I listen to modern music. I just have no patience for whiny bitches. This song is an extended whine. You tell me that's what you like about it? Odd.

Blogger Doktor Jeep May 31, 2016 1:34 PM  

It's all about ass.

80s: kicking ass, getting ass, not getting your ass kicked, getting off your ass and doing something about your life. The Reagan years....

90s: Being an ass, sitting on your ass, "I'm ugly so are you no I don't have a gun".


As for millenials and 'their' music.... well being in Gen-X I had one of the front row seats to the beginning of the end. Not all Gen-X were raised by hippies. I don't know the rate, but a good lot of them were raised by parents born in the 1930s. They were vastly different than the ones whose parents were "part of the problem". My dad was building the very buildings in NYC that feminists live in, writing about patriarchy in warmth and comfort without having laid one block nor understood the kind of men it took.

Gen-X had a front-row seat all through the 1990s and by the late 1990s music was on the level of intellect and awareness comparable to the Eisenhower years because everybody gave up on it.

To get a better understanding, look at the old Daria series, a Beavis and Butthead spinoff from Mike Judge - the episodes BEFORE Judge left MTV were telling: Daria and friends watching a show called "Sick Sad World". Mike Judge is a prophet.

So the 1990s... where every white heterosexual man became scourge of the earth without doing a damned thing (Clinton years first post-modern SJW PC assault 1992-1996). The 1990s: where the "promise" of success for showing up to work on time was broken, where starting at the factory and becoming VP in 25 years was seen as bullshit. Dindu-ism, corporations falling all over themselves to hire brown people as a means of signalling.... and also because to get boomers to work 40 hours a week you had to give them benefits packages that were not sustainable nor reasonable. As if having a job was some kind of horror.


The 1990s where even the last of the NAWALTs would finally succumb to watching too much Oprah and she would welcome her husband one day with "we need to talk" and then destroy a man because "her needs".


What is the biggest difference between Gen X and millenials?

Gen-X still had a carrot on the stick. (Those raised by the silent generation looked on, entirely appalled, at the hippy-raised peers just about sell out to every damned stupid idea and movement. You hippy-raised retards, we warned you about "service economy" and "middlemanship/Rent seeking" and you sneered then 2 seconds later were onto the next self-gratifying thought).

For Millenials, there is no more carrot, and they are being beaten with a stick. No more NAWALTs, no more jobs. No more future.

Except that future which they create. Our only task is to ensure globalists don't start off a world war meat grinder to throw them into (and then subdue through traumatization via war and turn them into yet another generation of VFW bench sitters worshipping the state).

Anonymous Headcannon May 31, 2016 1:39 PM  

I'll worry less about Millenials when the critics stop calling things like Megadeth's most recent album "xenophobic" instead of "true".

Blogger John Wright May 31, 2016 1:41 PM  

Oddly enough, none of my musical tastes match those of the songs played in the radio in my youth.

I listen to the songs of a generation or two before my own: swing and Big Band, the Andrews Sisters and Cole Porter and the like. There was a brief revival of swing dancing in the 90s.

Also, Wagner and Mozart, j-pop and k-pop, some Christian rock, some Russian spirituals, showtunes, Bollywood tunes, and, oddly enough, movie scores from films like SEVEN SAMURAI, SUPERMAN, NORTH BY NORHTWEST or THE GOOD THE BAD AND THE UGLY.

If there is a common theme to my taste, I am not sure what it is. It does not seem to have much to do with when I was born.

I will confess I rather like the background scores to cartoons I saw as a youth: Hoyt Curtain wrote a number of scores and themes for Hanna Barbara cartoons I rather like. Their merit as piece of music I leave to the judgment of more refined ears than mine: but the trumpet solo in the theme song to the JETSONS or the trombone riff in the theme to JONNY QUEST sounds as good as anything done by Al Hirt or Benny Goodman.

Anonymous Sir_Chancealot May 31, 2016 2:10 PM  

After watching that video several times, I noticed something. At 2:33, watch the crowd, and only the crowd. From 2:33 until 3:00, there is almost no movement in the crowd.

Can you imagine getting a bunch of 70s, 80s, or even early 90s kids to do that for 30 seconds? It would have been like trying to herd cats.

Yes, I know. Editing and all that. Still, you want a reason to be hopeful of the Millenials? Look at the self-discipline they possess when you give them a reason for it.

I fully admit I may be reading this wrong, but look at the joy on their faces when they get to be part of something larger than themselves.

Blogger slarrow May 31, 2016 2:20 PM  

There are many great musicians who can't write a compelling three-chord pop song to save their lives.

Ah, but can they write a four-chord song?

Anonymous Bird on a Wing May 31, 2016 2:50 PM  

I'll never forget hearing Tommy Lee waxing on about what great musicians the guys in Duran Duran were, at a time when every Motley Crue fan would have dismissed them out of hand.

Ah. Car Radio and Stressed Out -- now I understand why Millennials are covering The Chauffeur, using reverent tones, and calling it "classic". No one at the time would have used that word, nor heard that song, except on weird college or alternative stations.

And now I have greater respect for Tommy Lee than I had at the time. (also, a few years ago I discovered he's a dedicated horticulturist-plantsman, which shocked me into horrified approval)

Duran Duran has one of the best lyricist-poets in the business. The Chauffeur is my favorite, and I thought Millennials were just being ironic.

Blogger MadMax 1861 May 31, 2016 2:53 PM  

I like country music but haven't listened to FM radio country for years. I'm still listening to Tammy Wynette (often in duets with George Jones).

Blogger Noah B May 31, 2016 3:08 PM  

sure. if by "a job so they can support themselves" you mean they want a job that pays them 100k a year to sit on their asses and make memes and text their friends all day.

Memes aren't going to make themselves, Nate.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr May 31, 2016 3:18 PM  

Caedryn Stonelaw wrote:Nate wrote:"Family has worked at GE for decades. I don't know from reading it on a webpage. For the record we're talking bachelors degrees here. Even back in the mid 90s when I graduated all the engineers knew that if they wanted to make real money they had to at least get a masters.

Funnily enough, at GMI they straight up told students to not bother getting a masters unless you were going into research, or the company you were already working for was willing to pay for it. It just didn't boost your technical prowess enough to make a difference. Of course, that was a school with a heavy emphasis on practical work and forced co-ops. I made more money during my internships in college than I make now, but again, that was my choice.



I graduated in 1985, B.S. in Aerospace Engineering. At that time, it was pretty well accepted that a masters was nice to have...but not at the expense of work experience. Doubly so in flight test. The gold standard for that field is Test Pilot School (Navy, USAF, ETPS, or EPNER).

FWIW, we're offering new hires at Pax River in the mid-60K range to start...but you'll make ~$90K in five years.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 31, 2016 3:18 PM  

VD wrote:Fair enough, at least for "Car Radio" and "Stressed Out". But I would think even you would very much like and approve of the theme of "Semi-automatic" even if the electronica leaves you cold.

Great tune. Unlike Car Radio this motivtes me to actually bother listening to something else they've done. Kinda reminds me of Ray Davies, actually.
AB2000 wrote:I never fit the media stereotype of a Gen X-er, and neither did any of my friends. We were sneered at for being slackers saying 'whatever' to everything

I literally astounded my brother when I told him his stepdaughter's "whatever" was not a plea of uncaring, but a shorthand for "you're wrong, but also stupid, unlistening and intractable. There's no point even talking to you about this subject anymore."

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr May 31, 2016 3:21 PM  

And with regard to music:

1. 90%+ is junk. Except classical. Only 75% of classical is junk.
2. The <10% that's good comes from all eras.
3. There is no accounting for taste.

Anonymous RedJack May 31, 2016 3:24 PM  

Caedryn Stonelaw,

What type of job do you have that it is only $35K? I made more than than in my first job in ChemE, and will be making just over double that at my new job.

Anonymous RedJack May 31, 2016 3:27 PM  

And now I have greater respect for Tommy Lee than I had at the time. (also, a few years ago I discovered he's a dedicated horticulturist-plantsman, which shocked me into horrified approval)

He did a reality TV show where he went back to college at the University of Nebraska. Most of it was stupid, but I did hear from an acquaintance that he knew horticulture very well. Which is why he went to UNL.

Blogger ray May 31, 2016 3:44 PM  

Yes, these are the Generations of All-Resentment.

Shit anybody half conscious knew that when disco arrived, the culture was going full homo/fem, straight down with Awesome Sauce, and that was the beginning of the end. And so it was, with succeeding inferiorities to follow, under massive P.R. blitzes -- club scene, punk, metal, glitter, homo cucks like alice cooper, death metal, and finally the knockout punch of 'music' . . . your beloved (c)rap . . . the music that aint, and never was! lol

No No it's OK tho, you don't actually need talent, nah don't bother spending months to write a unique melody, meh it's all about the Identity now, and how closely the 'artist' can resemble the mediocrities she/he/it/she-it is supposedly inspiring. Lady Gaga, ThugMaster Black, Adele, ad nauseum. True Egalite.


You don't even what you had, whence it came, nor do you know why it took place, nor for what purpose. You just know it needs shitcanning because YOU and your pals didn't think it up yourselves. After all if it had any merit or instruction in it, well, you'd have already done it. Better.

LOL

Blogger Elder Son May 31, 2016 3:55 PM  

Our only task is to ensure globalists don't start off a world war meat grinder to throw them into (and then subdue through traumatization via war and turn them into yet another generation of VFW bench sitters worshipping the state).

Maybe we can write them (globalists) a letter. Or, vote. Maybe a, Millennial Lives Matter? How about a, "Forget it Jake. It's Chinatown."

https://youtu.be/I_kO9VPkqd4

Blogger Noah B May 31, 2016 3:57 PM  

I don't doubt that it's possible to hire someone with an engineering degree for 25k, but I'd wager than hiring that person would be a costly mistake.

Blogger Caedryn Stonelaw May 31, 2016 3:58 PM  

RedJack wrote:Caedryn Stonelaw,

What type of job do you have that it is only $35K? I made more than than in my first job in ChemE, and will be making just over double that at my new job.


I'm a concrete expert primarily, though 2 of my patents are a capacitive liquid and a nutrient control method for agriculture, but I work for my family's company and, after some events internally, they needed the help and could not afford to pay what I market at. I made just under 50k when I could only co-op in college for half the year.

It's definitely been a poor monetary decision, but was an anecdote to add to all the others I've seen in my time tutoring that Millenials are not necessarily looking for money (though it definitely helps, I'm no ascetic) but usually looking for purpose. I appreciate all the recommendations, but until this company is buried or my family is, I'm all in. 15 generations buried in the state of Ohio, and unless something catastrophic happens, I plan on being 16th. It just that Millenials in my experience suffer under the reality of debt taken in their names that they are not the benefactors of. It's tangible and heartbreaking, as someone who's committed to getting back what was lost, to see friends, acquaintences, and strangers put off family and community because they can't afford it and can't handle the responsibility because they've never had to be responsible for a quarter of a decade.

To give an example, I'm 29, accomplished, and have been a major boon to the family business in both operations and negotiations, and paid my own way through college with no debt(though did take a loan for my first semester). My mother, who is president, still treats me like I'm 10 and still need her for scraped knees. When at my age she would have had me and my brother already and already built their second house. The difference is infuriating, really.

Blogger ray May 31, 2016 4:11 PM  

"In "The Decline of Western Civilization - Part II, The Metal Years," Penelope Spheeris' classic documentary, Paul Stanley of KISS effuses about what great songwriters ABBA were."


The snaketongued fagling who dressed up in Halloween costumes and pretended to be a rock musician? That guy? He gave an interview to a Jiggly Journalist, and together they pontificated on (I love this part) the Decline of Western Civilization?

:O)

Isn't that kinda like Mo Atta sitting in Starbucks afterwards, chatting with the barista about how them big tall buildings could have fallen down like that? Too bad Penelope wasn't on-site, to get Mo's 'insider' feelings on the terrible tragedy.

Anonymous LastRedoubt May 31, 2016 4:25 PM  

@AB2000

I've always thought the particular strength of electronic music is its lack of humanity - If I wanted to write passionate or angry songs about disaffection and isolation within society, I'd put all the and emotional vulnerability into the vocal, but make the backing track sound as coldly-inhuman as possible. I think it's a natural fit for the introverted, the introspective and those who wish to withdraw in disgust..

There was a short time I actually liked the Orgy cover of "Blue Monday" to the original. It bluntly expressed the anger, was crunchy, etc.

That said, over time, I reverted to the original as favorite. Not because "old comfortable", but because the Orgy version showed me something I'd never seen in the original before - how disaffected, cold, dismissive it was. Part of that was the synth.

Blogger Caedryn Stonelaw May 31, 2016 4:35 PM  

LastRedoubt wrote:@AB2000

I've always thought the particular strength of electronic music is its lack of humanity - If I wanted to write passionate or angry songs about disaffection and isolation within society, I'd put all the and emotional vulnerability into the vocal, but make the backing track sound as coldly-inhuman as possible. I think it's a natural fit for the introverted, the introspective and those who wish to withdraw in disgust..

There was a short time I actually liked the Orgy cover of "Blue Monday" to the original. It bluntly expressed the anger, was crunchy, etc.

That said, over time, I reverted to the original as favorite. Not because "old comfortable", but because the Orgy version showed me something I'd never seen in the original before - how disaffected, cold, dismissive it was. Part of that was the synth.



Emotion in electronic music? look no further than Eurobeat, my friend. Gas Gas Gas

Go fast, love women, be passionate, win.

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction May 31, 2016 4:36 PM  

@116 Let's get real, the damage that has been done to America cannot be fixed by the efforts of a single generation. If things can get fixed it will take a concerted efforts for multiple generations working with intent.

Blogger B.J. May 31, 2016 4:54 PM  

John Wright wrote:Also, Wagner and Mozart, j-pop and k-pop, some Christian rock, some Russian spirituals, showtunes, Bollywood tunes, and, oddly enough, movie scores from films like SEVEN SAMURAI, SUPERMAN, NORTH BY NORHTWEST or THE GOOD THE BAD AND THE UGLY.



Dude, "Ecstasy of Gold" and "The Trio" are my jam.

I forget where I read about this, but years ago Netflix offered a huge sum of money to anyone who could develop better algorithms for picking movies for people. They wanted to be able to guess what people would like based on what they already liked. They gave out all their movie rating data, and some Harvard/MIT nerds crunched all the numbers.

What they found was that movie interests were so unique to the individual they were basically fingerprints. They could actually identify people across multiple sites and platforms based on their movie ratings, but they couldn't guess what people would like. It's too chaotic. I'd bet money that music interests work the same way.

In other words, there's no accounting for taste.

Blogger Bob Loblaw May 31, 2016 5:14 PM  

it didn't trickle down into TN until the 90s... I remember though in 1994 having a blonde chick from minnesota tell me all about how her mom taught diversity classes up there.

Yep. The diversity cult metastasized in Northern lily white universities. It's easy to worship at that particular altar if you can return to Whiteyville by turning off the television.

Blogger Bob Loblaw May 31, 2016 5:27 PM  

I'm reading this scratching my head. Late eighties were optimistic? Really? I don't remember that at all.

That was my reaction. Back then we were cognizant of the fact that we were never more than twenty minutes from death by Soviet nukes. The nukes are still there, of course, but people don't think about them much.

I remember the low point in American optimism was the mid '70s. Seemed like everything was going wrong at the same time.

OpenID malcolmthecynic May 31, 2016 7:34 PM  

@149

Your Lady Gaga comment reminds me of an amazing cover I saw by Pink doing Bobby Mcgee. Dude has talent.

Blogger Lazarus May 31, 2016 8:03 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:I literally astounded my brother when I told him his stepdaughter's "whatever" was not a plea of uncaring, but a shorthand for "you're wrong, but also stupid, unlistening and intractable. There's no point even talking to you about this subject anymore."

Short form = fuk off

Blogger weka May 31, 2016 8:12 PM  

@20. Weka is a New Zealander who has not a television. Simpsom tropes ignored.

Blogger Lazarus May 31, 2016 10:05 PM  

Usually musical genres are not only dictated by social mileau, but what kind of inebriates the artists take. I have no idea what they take now.

Anonymous Stickwick May 31, 2016 11:17 PM  

Bob Loblaw: That was my reaction. Back then we were cognizant of the fact that we were never more than twenty minutes from death by Soviet nukes.

Yes, we all worried that we'd be nuked any day now, but look at the pop culture back then and compare it with what we have now. Back then, it was fun, it was joyful, people had a sense of who they were, what this country was, who was evil, who was good, and where they were going in life. We have none of that now. What you don't seem to understand is that you can be scared silly about something and still feel joy and optimism.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr May 31, 2016 11:32 PM  

John Wright wrote:.... oddly enough, movie scores from films like SEVEN SAMURAI, SUPERMAN, NORTH BY NORHTWEST or THE GOOD THE BAD AND THE UGLY.

I'm convinced that 100 years from now, almost all rock, rap, etc. will be forgotten...but the film scores will be considered the height of 20th century music. John Williams is the American Wagner.

Anonymous RedJack June 01, 2016 9:41 AM  

Caedryn Stonelaw

I understand. I was the first to move off the farm (had to) and my grandfather made me feel guilty about it till he died. He understood, and was supportive of me becoming an engineer, but still.

I have left a lot on the table for my family. Stuck it out in a job that I didn't like to provide stability to my girls, till I hit the point where I if I stayed, I would drink myself to death. Found another job to keep me local for the moment, but still not making the coin that I could.

As for you Mom.. My grandfather treated my Dad like a little kid till he was in his late 50's. Grandpa would listen to me, but my Dad was always his kid. That is one reason I was glad to leave the farm.

Blogger Scott Birch June 01, 2016 3:46 PM  

I totally agree. My hormones were pumping in the late 70's/early 80's, so I'm neurologically bonded to the beats of those times. I was in England, and like most of the smart people of our generation, were watching a recession, living under the shadow of nuclear error, learning about venereal disease become fatal again and painfully aware that the beautiful future shown to us by babyboomers in the Star Trek re-runs wasn't going to happen. I recognise a similar spirit in 21 Pilots, although they do sound more nostalgic, more defeated. We felt more betrayed and angry. We knew the values being promulgated by our so-called betters were nonsense.

Blogger Doc Rampage June 02, 2016 2:06 AM  

James Dixon wrote:Well musicians have an ear for music and can tell when it's well done. Most fans don't and only know what they like. I have no ear for music and can't begin to tell you why I like one musical composition more than another (lyrics, yeah, but they're only half of a song), only that I do.

You are right, but it isn't that hard to learn. I was like you until about 10 years ago I got excited about some blues harmonica that I heard and decided to teach myself to play. It taught me to listen to music in a different way. Now I not only recognize good harmonica, I can hear what people are talking about when they say a guitar player is good. I always thought it was just a matter of hitting the right notes in the right sequence, but there's a lot more to it than that.

My parent's generation had a common belief that everyone should learn a musical instrument because it enriches your life. I never understood that before I learned an instrument. Now I do. It's a shame that this belief seems to have died out with the rise of recorded music.

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