Monday, May 30, 2016

Mailvox: how to eject the Cult of Nice

JB asks how to go about restoring the worship of Jesus Christ to the nominally Christian church where the Cult of Nice has taken root:
My own church is not infested by SJWs, but it is solidly in the Church of Nice camp.  There have never been any horror story sermons such as those described by Dalrock on his blog, but the big ministry push is to send as many people to Mexico on "mission trips" as possible... and sometimes they bring natives back with them.  Also, the pastor expressly avoids "politics" in his teachings but routinely uses examples such as Jackie Robinson and Holocaustianity in his sermons.  I've never heard anything outrageous from the pulpit, but neither have I heard anything truly inspiring.  The best word I can think to describe my church and its leadership is "lukewarm."

I used to think my congregation was fully Churchian, but in a weekly class on Christian Ethics I decided to stop being "Nice" myself.  We talked about standard political issues like economics, abortion, environmentalism, etc.  The leader was a well-meaning man but in his research prior to our discussion on immigration he apparently could find little Biblical support for immigration restrictionism.  At the beginning of the immigration class, he explained to everyone that he was originally anti-immigration but his research forced him to conclude that the Bible mandated open borders.  Fortunately, I reread Cuckservative the night before and (thanks in large part to you and John Red Eagle) systematically demolished his argument and built a Christian case in favor of immigration restrictionism.  My case was not "Nice" by any stretch.

However, rather than being excommunicated from the class because I dared say that Christians can morally support borders (a heresy in the Churchian mindset), I was invited to explain my position in more depth the next class and many people congratulated me and wished to learn more after the class was over.  Even the class leader seemed relieved to hear that a Christian case for immigration restrictionism was possible.  If there had been an SJW in the class, I would have been ejected.  Instead, I became a thought leader for the rest of the course and the class as a whole became less "Nice" and more "Christian" in the true sense.

This event led me to conclude that my congregation wants to be Christian but is Churchian out of ignorance and timidity.  This ignorance is shared at the top of our leadership.  No one appears to be fully SJW, but many do seem to believe that Churchianity is Christianity whether they like its repercussions or not.

I've been asked to help teach a discussion course next semester on why children raised in the church tend to leave it as they get older.  Of course, I believe the "Christian alt-right" explanation that modern Churchianity is poison and that a true Christian church would draw everyone back into the pews.  But I'm not sure using pure red meat such as Cuckservative immediately as a main text is as solid a strategy as using some softer stuff to build the students' tolerance for alt-right theology.

How would you bring an ignorant, but apparently receptive, congregation back into the Christian fold from a surface-level Churchianity?
 Alt-right theology, now there is a simply terrifying term! Anyhow, I would start with a private meeting with the pastor first, and if he is supportive, with the elders next. It's important to determine if you have an amenable authority or a hostile one before taking action, as that will significantly effect the way in which your campaign proceeds.

The next step would be to develop a program called "Back to the Biblical Basics" which the pastor could draw upon for his sermons and the Sunday School teachers and Bible Study leaders could utilize for their weekly activities. These subjects should be selected for undermining the various Churchian and Cult of Nice concepts that have gradually crept in over the years. Each topic should be based around a single Bible verse that contradicts or otherwise destroys the Churchian narrative, such as the way Matthew 15:25-28 destroys both the equalitarian and the immigrationist aspects of that narrative.

The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.

But Jesus replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

“Yes, Lord,” she said, “even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”

“O woman,” Jesus answered, “your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

I would welcome similar suggestions in the comments; I expect 10-12 would be the minimum to provide a foundation for the "Back to the Biblical Basics" program.

And JB's instincts are correct. Christians steeped in the Cult of Nice should not be encouraged to read SJWAL or Cuckservative, much less the relevant Alt-Right sites. They are not ready for it. Instead, they should be asked, relentlessly, if the narrative position they are upholding is one of which the world approves or not, and if worldly approval of its positions is the primary objective of a Christian Church. For every argument they make, from "we must be welcoming" to "everyone is equal", have a verse to hand that demonstrates it to be the extra-Biblical, non-Christian nonsense that it is.

The third step is to embrace the consequences. Some church members will acknowledge Scriptural authority. Help them grow in understanding, conviction, and courage. Other members will reject Scriptural authority, cling to the Cult of Nice, and will probably threaten to leave the church. Don't try to talk them out of it, but rather, help them go, as per the example of Gideon. If church members are more of the world than of the Church, then they belong in the former, and not the latter. The Church has no need of numbers; just 12 Apostles were all that was required to shake the world.

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Anonymous Chico and the Man May 30, 2016 5:09 AM  

There are also some good blog resources out there. For example, Eric Enlow is doing yoeman's work over at His latest piece is a direct biblical assault on the churchian "proposition nation."

Blogger Phillip George May 30, 2016 5:43 AM  

Respecting the man behind the muslim means telling them their religion is taking them to hell. It is also respecting a person's right to never assimilate, never respect Western history, nor the foundations of Western jurisprudence, to never respect the Christian Church or Our God. ie. You respect their right to be perpetual judgment enemies of the Gospel and it's Giver. So why welcome people God has said, brush the very dust off your feet as a testimony against them? Extrapolate from "home" to "nation". Own your home for Jesus, means own your nation for Him as well. Thy Kingdom Come, means pick up a shovel and dig moats if need be, or build a bridge if you are received.

Anonymous CS May 30, 2016 6:03 AM  

Deut 32:8 is a great place to start for a biblical theology which supports nationalism. Most translations will read something like, "And God divided the nations according to the number of the sons of Israel."

This translation, taken from the Masoretic text, is a bit off. The passage refers to the incident at the tower of Babel. This particular translation, though, makes little sense, as we know (as the people at the time of its autorship knew) that there were far more than 12 nations. In fact, Deuteronomy provides a table of nations, listing about 70 of them. The translation you will find in the ESV is more accurate, as it reflects the older texts found at Qumran (the Dead Sea Scrolls) as well as the Septuagint (the OT translated into Greek, used by all early Christians, including the Apostles and other biblical writers) and it reads, "And God divided the nations according to the number of the sons of God."

The main point here is that at the Babel event, God divided the nations. As we know, of course, from reading our OT, the entire story unfolds as the story of Isreal vs the nations and Yahweh vs the gods of the nations. The gods of the nations, as is recounted in this verse, were originally placed over the nations by God himself. As punishment for their disloyalty the sons of God were placed over the nations and the people no longer had direct access to God himself. Now, the intent, had the gods acted according to their mandate, was for the gods to rule justly and act as guardians until Messiah came to unite them under Yahweh. In the meantime, Israel was to be a nation of priests, pointing them back to Yahweh. We see, however, how the sons of God rebelled. Psalm 82 recounts their judgement. We also see how Israel rebelled.

Now, it is true that after the coming of Jesus as the Messiah, the process of uniting the nations back under the true God began, this did not eradicate the division of the nations. Until the new covenant, as promised by Jeremiah and Ezekiel, comes into its fullness (as it will in the new heaven and new earth, where we will live with Yahweh for eternity), the nations are still divided. God's people are united together with God as His family, but as Jesus Himself said, "My kingdom is not of this world."

God divided the nations. And until the fullness of the gentiles (nations) comes in by placing their believing loyalty in Yahweh through Jesus, they will remain divided.

Anonymous TS May 30, 2016 6:05 AM  

There is the commandment to take the gospel (go) to all the nations (Mark 16:15) not bring all the nations to you to collect freebie tax payer funded benefits, destroy the local culture and further the anti Christs globalist kingdom (Tower of Babel 2.0).

Blogger Lovekraft May 30, 2016 6:14 AM  

Mention must be made of Dalrock's blog, who has consistently supplied evidence pointing to the subversion of Christianity to appease the rainbow coalition.

Christ is many things to many people. To me, he has a strong element of cynicism. Which isn't a negative thing. He wants us to stand upright, not grovel for crumbs before the state. With this however requires a strong sense of humility, lest the Christian become what he is tearing down.

Anonymous CS May 30, 2016 6:15 AM  

The story of the northern kingdom of Israel is also instructive when we teach about diversity and globalism. The northern kingdom was sent into exile long before the southern kingdom of Judah. The Assyrians, in conquering the northern kingdom, systematically moved large numbers of the population and spread them to other parts of their kingdom, while transplanting a diverse group of other conquered peoples. They did this to weaken the cohesiveness of the societal, religious and linguistic bonds of the people within the conquered territory. They did this, because these very ancient people knew that diversity did not equal strength. They knew that the opposite was true. A people not united in culture, religion and language would be far less likely to rebel.

And we see the results of the Assyrian program reflected clearly in the New Testament as the bastardized religion of the Sameritans, was seen as heretical, and the diluted stock of the people were seen as inferior.

Blogger James Higham May 30, 2016 6:26 AM  

Thoughtful piece. Thanks for that. Think one of the most threatening aspects is Mega Church, easily joined with WCofC.

Blogger Unknown May 30, 2016 6:42 AM  

A Biblical Defense of Ethno-Nationalism

Anonymous Desiderius May 30, 2016 6:45 AM  

Wise counsel.

The time is ripe for those with courage to preach the Word in its simple grandeur. Many ears are eager to hear it.

Anonymous Desiderius May 30, 2016 6:49 AM  

"Alt-right theology, now there is a simply terrifying term!"

The Lord makes use of the tools at hand. The alt-right is the fever that fights the infection, the white blood cells of the body. There is much work for the red blood cells to do in recuperation that have little to do with left or right, but first the infection must be defeated.

Anonymous Anonymous May 30, 2016 6:50 AM  

Anything that puts a set of "Sacred Words" first will always lead to the sacrifice of your own people. Period.

Anonymous Anonymous May 30, 2016 6:53 AM  

Deut 20:17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee:

18 That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the Lord your God.

I'm unsure how you would work these verses in, considering they're about the Israelites invading and driving out the native people, but they do illustrate how mingling with other cultures can taint your own. Maybe emphasize that the Jews have been around a really long time by following that principle.

Blogger weka May 30, 2016 6:53 AM  

To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.

Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

Rev 3:14-20

Consider Lukewarm, and how the congregation appeases those in power to avoid trouble.

Anonymous Anonymous May 30, 2016 6:57 AM  

2 John 1:7-11

Blogger weka May 30, 2016 7:14 AM  

Song of Solomon.
To maximise the pain of the Nice, alternate with Ecclesiastes. You may have to add Esther to the mix at the end because of variations in book length.

And no, the Song is not about chaste worship of the Lady.

Anonymous NorthernHamlet May 30, 2016 7:18 AM  

A list of what actually defines churchianism would be helpful for me. It's difficult for me to put my finger on what it is when I'm seeing it.

Other than hours of praise music followed by smiles, rainbows, and accepting everything by everyone everywhere.

And men should never speak in a crude way even when they're only around other men.

What is the group of traits that defines churchians?

Anonymous Steveo May 30, 2016 7:24 AM  

There's a lot of powerful teaching in John 5. For the win, verses 39-44. If the churchian cannot understand the gravity here, explain the remaining verses & the import to His audience.

Anonymous Athor Pel May 30, 2016 7:26 AM  

There is a case for the teaching of spiritual discernment. That congregation needs it.

At its base discernment is asking a simple question, who is being glorified. If it isn't Jesus or God the father then they didn't send it.

Glorification is not saying things like "Oh golly, the Lord, he's so great." It is merely stating the truth like, "The Lord created all things."

Some specific verses to go looking for in regards to immigration have to do with Babylon and what we could call spiritual Babylon. Many times when talking about Babylon scripture makes a point of mentioning it is made up of mingled people.

There is a point blank command to come out of Babylon in Revelation. Yes this verse has a primary spiritual meaning which is to our benefit if we are to understand how it applies to worldly beliefs.

More about purity, the 12 tribes were told not to marry outside of their nation and any alien wanting to share in their inheritance and become one of them needed to completely adopt their beliefs. This is direct contradiction of open immigration.

Blogger VD May 30, 2016 7:28 AM  

What is the group of traits that defines churchians?

A concern for niceness and inclusivity uber alles. A refusal to call a spade a spade. That's really all you need to know, everything else follows from that.

Anonymous Anonymous May 30, 2016 7:32 AM  

There are some good lines in 1 Timothy about placing one's house first; perhaps one could, by analogy, apply it to one's extended family, i.e. people, in defense of nationalism.

"But if any widow have children, or grandchildren, let her learn first to govern her own house, and to make a return of duty to her parents: for this is acceptable before God."
1 Timothy 5:4 (Douay-Rheims)

"But if any man have not care of his own, and especially of those of his house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."
1 Timothy 5:8 (Douay-Rheims)

Anonymous Anonymous May 30, 2016 7:35 AM  

JB's integrity and courage put a smile on my face. Good on him.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) May 30, 2016 7:44 AM  

Anything that puts a set of "Sacred Words" first will always lead to the sacrifice of your own people. Period.

Shut up retard

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) May 30, 2016 7:45 AM  

What is the group of traits that defines churchians?

Ned Flanders

Anonymous Anonymous May 30, 2016 7:52 AM  

Josh, the history of worshiping Words is pretty clear. It's silly.

If you put Magic Words on a pedestal and demand that everything be subordinated to them, of course you will end up stabbing your own people in the back - you must!

There will be conflicts between what those who interpret the Magic Words say they mean, and the interests of the people.

Start with facts. Put reality first. Put your actual people first.

Blogger Jeff aka Orville May 30, 2016 8:00 AM  

With the Laodecians it's all about the "people". Todd is a Laodecian. Shut up Todd.

Anonymous Anonymous May 30, 2016 8:10 AM  

Orville, why does your type of person believe using archaic words commands authority? Oh right, Word Worship.

To be more effective, your Magic Words should be spoken in a dead language like Latin. That's really impressive!

Blogger Balazs Varga May 30, 2016 8:17 AM  

Christianity lost its militant flavour centuries ago, and is now loosing ground to atheism and pagan gods as well as the danger of Islam.

A religion that teaches peace and love is simply not strong enough to survive. Either the Crusaders will have to return, or Odin will look to the alt-right when they need divine inspiration.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) May 30, 2016 8:20 AM  

Josh, the history of worshiping Words is pretty clear. It's silly.

We don't worship words. We worship the One who inspired them.

Anonymous CS May 30, 2016 8:24 AM  

Orville, why does your type of person believe using archaic words commands authority? Oh right, Word Worship.

Todd, libraries worth of books have been written from antiquity forward providing the apologia you request from Orville. We stand on the shoulders of giants. Your ignorance does not dissuade us.

You might be better served by not assuming abject ignorance on the part of your adversaries. You will find yourself as the one who brought a knife to a gun fight.

Blogger Jeff aka Orville May 30, 2016 8:26 AM  

He who has the son has life, he who has not the son has not life. Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

Todd must be severely reTodded to not understand "archaic" one syllable words.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) May 30, 2016 8:29 AM  

Todd must be a homosexual or another sort of sexual deviant

Blogger Phillip George May 30, 2016 8:30 AM  

"My kingdom is not of this world."

there are two scriptures that are among the most misquoted of all scriptures everywhere. This is one of them. The other is "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's".

Jesus said, "My Kingdom is not of this World" prior to going to the Cross and dethroning every principality and power that exalts itself against the knowledge of Him and before ascending to Heaven to sit at the right hand of God, and before sending the Holy Spirit into the earth.

The instructions to the Church are to bring all things into submission to the Kingdom of God. It is almost 100 percent diametrically opposite to what is quoted with "My Kingdom is not of this Earth". One thing was said while going to the Cross, another was spoken before the triumphal entry into Heaven.

Own the world, for Jesus sake. Own it! "Thy Kingdom Come", means get your own hands muddy, sweaty, blistered. I humbly submit, Caesar now has a right to be Christian and run a Christian Kingdom. QED.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) May 30, 2016 8:32 AM  

I humbly submit, Caesar now has a right to be Christian and run a Christian Kingdom. QED.

And yet Paul does not agree with your analysis.

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

Blogger Phillip George May 30, 2016 8:39 AM  

Josh do have children? Do they obey rules you set? If one were demonically possessed would you exorcise them in Jesus' name or Caesar's?

Does the prayer invoked reflect God's Kingdom coming or Caesar's rule happening?
And if and when Caesar becomes a Christian what do you want to happen?

A child in your own home is a physical being? Are you ruling over them spiritually of carnally? Are your rules earthly or heaven sent. I think you need to look again. A child has a body of flesh so you feed them fish. To guide them right is the Kingdom of God.

Anonymous stress management May 30, 2016 8:40 AM  

I once suffered through a sermon informing us that Nehemiah's wall-building was an example for the church to "minister to the surrounding community". Silly me, I thought it was about providing a refuge and base of support for the faithful.

So, here's another one for the Churchians - Nehemiah Ch. 1-5: BUILD THE WALL!

Blogger Elder Son May 30, 2016 8:41 AM  

Just tell them that when G-d confused their language and scattered them all over the earth from Babel, from which the many nations derive, who are we to put back together what G-d has put asunder.

Which is exactly what the globalists are trying to do.

Genesis 11

Anonymous CS May 30, 2016 8:42 AM  

The instructions to the Church are to bring all things into submission to the Kingdom of God

Where do I find these instructions?

Blogger Phillip George May 30, 2016 8:46 AM  

Where do I find these instructions?
they are all there. Example: "hand them over to
Satan for the destruction of their flesh that their souls might be saved on the day of salvation"
example: "husbands love your wives".
They are all there.

Blogger Unknown May 30, 2016 8:49 AM  

@25: Pedicabo ego vos et moriar

Blogger Unknown May 30, 2016 8:57 AM  

@35. The de-Babelization is only part of a larger movement, which is to "immanentize the Eschaton": the creation of Heaven on Earth. It's an attempt to take on Godlike powers in order to reorder what God has ordered, and as such is a 1st Commandment violation. Whenever it has been tried (and the French Revolution is its real origin), it has resulted in megadeath. Yes, we're to ameliorate suffering, care for the widows and orphans. We-- not governments, not people claiming to act in our name.

Blogger Phillip George May 30, 2016 9:05 AM  

"charity" got changed into "rights".

intellectual seppuku.

But lets for argument's sake, say 'government' is now christian. They shouldn't hand out to anyone for any reason.

Nothing, and I mean nothing, has done more damage than "separation of church and state" meme. It has been used to disinherit Christians of everything their forefathers worked for. It has robbed you blind. And still is robbing you blind.

Anonymous CS May 30, 2016 9:07 AM  

they are all there. Example: "hand them over to
Satan for the destruction of their flesh that their souls might be saved on the day of salvation"
example: "husbands love your wives".
They are all there.

So, in other words, your interpretation of every verse regarding submission is that the church is supposed to bring all things under submission of the Kingdom of God? And you use this interpretation to refute a biblical theology built off of Deuteronomy 32, which is reflected and supported throughout the entirety of scripture? And you make the words of Jesus Himself limited to the time before his ascension in order to justify this interpretation?

Thank you for sharing. Now I know I can safely ignore your biblical interpretations.

Blogger Markku May 30, 2016 9:17 AM  

When I was in the army, I always disobeyed direct commands. After all, I wouldn't want to respect the words of the command over the commander who gave them.

Somehow they didn't quite appreciate my efforts. Oh well, such is the part of the soldier. Always sacrificing himself, and what thanks does he get? None!

Blogger Phillip George May 30, 2016 9:18 AM  

God bless you CS.
God Almighty is bringing all things, all things under Jesus Christ,
In your life on earth are you
A. working towards that
B, working against that
C, sitting on your hands being spiritual and doing f all.?

All glory to Jesus the risen Lord.

Blogger Phillip George May 30, 2016 9:24 AM  

Plus, when Jesus said, don't touch me was it only at one particular time and place? QED bro.

Anonymous Sensei May 30, 2016 9:32 AM  

@42 When I was in the army, I always disobeyed direct commands. After all, I wouldn't want to respect the words of the command over the commander who gave them.

Well played.

Blogger unclesol May 30, 2016 9:34 AM  

Phillip George,

I appreciate the blessing, and offer one in turn. First let me answer your questions.

Yes, I agree that God Almighty is bringing all things under Jesus Christ.
Yes, I am working towards that, in the manner which He prescribed, which is by sharing the good news with the lost. Not only that, but I also teach Sunday School in my church - and I teach it using biblical theology - that is, theology which derives from the context in which it was actually written. I do this for the edification of the holy ones.

My contention with your dominionist theology is that while Jesus has taken His throne in heaven, He has yet to take His throne, as promised, on Earth. Unlike most who refute dominionist theology, I agree that the Kingdom was begun in the book of Acts. Luke clearly references the new covenant promises given by Jeremiah and Ezekiel in his description of the events which occurred at Pentecost. However, it is very clear that those new covenant promises, while having begun at Pentecost, have still yet to come into their fullness.

It is also clear that the spreading of the Kingdom of God begins at Pentecost. There is a reason that the book starts in Jerusalem and then spreads slowly westward in its spreading of the good news. Those nations listed in the table of nations are being reclaimed by the Kingdom of God.

But what is absent from this process? There is no appeal by any of the NT writers to influence earthly politics in any way. The only time that political figures are ever mentioned after the gospels is to talk about sharing the gospel with them, that they themselves might be saved. There isn't even an appeal to the political powers that be to stop their persecution of the church - either directly or in prayers to God Himself. But rather, their prayers are for the perseverence of the holy ones.

It is clear that the Father knows the time when Jesus will take His throne on Earth. It is also clear that that time has not yet come. In the meantime, the work of the holy ones is to share the good news with the lost. Not to take over governments and bring the people under the submission of God's Kingdom. God will do that Himself in the eschaton.

Blogger Phillip George May 30, 2016 9:41 AM  

There is no appeal by any of the NT writers to influence earthly politics in any way.


Paul said, I would that you be exactly like me apart from these chains.

ie. emulate me.

Anonymous CS May 30, 2016 9:46 AM  

Paul said, I would that you be exactly like me apart from these chains.

And to whom does he say this? In what way does this attempt to affect earthly politics?

On a side note, in case the connection is not clear to the original post, the distinction of the Kingdom of God as heavenly for the present time is important in understanding the continued separation of the nations. God is reclaiming His kingdom. But His kingdom, for now, is not of the earth. That will happen when He reclaims his throne at the end of days.

Blogger IM2L844 May 30, 2016 9:49 AM  

What is the group of traits that defines churchians?

A central theme revolves around various perversions of the whole "Judge not..." concept.

Anonymous crushlimbraw May 30, 2016 9:51 AM  

The Cult of Nice is only half the problem. When you combine that with the Cult of Dispensationalism, you have a totally neutered church - 'salt which has lost its flavor and is ground into the dust'! And are the churches now getting ground into the dust, eh?
As a former cultist, I know the situation first hand - it is a theological problem which literally motivates us to just sit there and wait to be pounded upon - until Christ comes to save us!
It is partly with that idea that I started a website last year - you're welcome to peruse it. It links to a word searchable blog archive, includes a Christian Action Project and also a good dose of Vox Day on all subjects. Clicking on my name will get you there.

Blogger Markku May 30, 2016 9:52 AM  

I am ABSOLUTELY not a dominionist, but it always annoys me how people are taking the faux dilemma to ridiculous extremes, as if the only alternative is then for Christians to go out of their way to maintain a secular society.

No, if the society chooses to make their laws based on the Bible, great. Better than secular. When it happens. But it's of only secondary priority. I don't believe we are to dedicate our lives to that end. Rather, we do it as a side business, if we happen to see a chance. In RPG terms, it's a side quest.

Anonymous Mark Call May 30, 2016 9:53 AM  

It's going to be tough returning to the Bible-as-Written without returning to the things He said to "do" and "keep forever", "throughout your dwelling places", "in all your generations," and "as long as heaven and earth" still exist. (Check that one out for yourself; Matthew 5:17-19; yup - still here!)

And that clearly includes sun-god-day school. Churchianity changed it to suit Constantine, not YHVH. (And honest Catholics like John Cardinal Gibbons have admitted that for a century.)

There's a reason we are finally starting to see what Jeremiah 16:19 was about. We have truly "inherited lies from our fathers, and the answer is to return (Hebrew 'tsuvah' translated as "repent" to English, really just means turn around, or 'return' when you realize you're going the WRONG WAY!) to Him,
because it was already to clear to Paul only a few decades after His 'sermon on the mount' that xtianity was already turning to "another jesus, whom we have NOT preached."

Churchianity is an obvious failure because "By your traditions you have made the commandments of God of no effect." (Mark chapter 7, en toto.) The essence of churchianity is that their god needs to be told what he SHOULD have written if he were as smart as men were.

Look where that got us today.

And consider this: If YHVH Himself, the Author of Scripture, Creator of the Universe, our Father, Master, King, Redeemer, and Husband, can't be trusted to keep His Covenants - all of 'em - AND His promises, including the conditional one - and His "Law", because He is the same, "yesterday, today, and forever," then why could we be surprised that a mere constitution and bill of rights of MEN is now toilet paper?

As to the Cult of Nice, Revelation 18:4 has the answer, which is consistent with the whole of Scripture when it comes to the set-apart ['holy') and profane: "Come out of her, My people."

Blogger Phillip George May 30, 2016 9:54 AM  

Paul also instructs to pray for those in Authority. Why? because while they are already under heaven and under God, they are liable to fallen natures which don't know it. But pray for what?
Thy Kingdom Come, one precept at a time, one line at a time, one meter at a time, one inch at a time.

When you pray for healing is it the physical body or only the spirit?
If their body is healed is that the kingdom of God advancing or the just carnal man being touched indifferent to God's will.

This isn't finished until death itself is abolished. Until then does the Kingdom advance, retreat or do nothing?

Blogger Artisanal Toad May 30, 2016 9:59 AM  

For a "Back to the Basics" approach there is no better place to start than at the beginning. I won't call them misunderstood because nobody understands Genesis 2:24 and Genesis 3:16. On the basis of those two verses feminism is destroyed. OTOH nobody likes were it goes, either, because it rips churchianity a new one and destroys a lot of churchian Easter Bunny tradition.

The thing is, everything in the New Testament about marriage and women is based on those verses. If you learn this you can force any churchian cuck to either accept what Scripture says or admit they don't care what Scripture says, they'll go with how they feel instead.

I put this chart together as a teaching tool that goes with about 3 hours of lecture, so it's not exactly self-explanatory, but there's more than enough to nail everything. Every single argument I've ever heard is destroyed by the Scripture presented. It's still kind of a work-in-progress though.

While large, there's a lot there and like the Alt-Right, something to outrage everyone:

Anonymous crushlimbraw May 30, 2016 9:59 AM  

Matthew 28:18-20New International Version (NIV)

18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Anonymous 360 May 30, 2016 10:00 AM  

"Each topic should be based around a single Bible verse that contradicts or otherwise destroys the Churchian narrative"

This is generally inadvisable. Picking specific verses to prove your point can be dangerous. Historical context and the context of the passage should always play a part in interpretation. Good hermeneutics are important.

Anonymous Anonymous May 30, 2016 10:02 AM  

The impulse toward inclusiveness comes from a mistaken notion that one's inclusiveness is a function of his respect for the other's humanity.

Such a person -- and Church of Niceness congregations are under that logical error's sway -- feel that wanting to exclude a category of people from moving into one's country or marrying one's daughter dehumanizes them.

This is also why many in the "excluded" category shriek as though affronted. To see this in action, write a blog post against race-mixing and watch the Black commenters come with eloquent explanations of why it is wrong to obsess about their feeling of entitlement to White wombs. If you write an anti-immigration post, various foreigners will be offended that you want to have a home of your own.

In contrast, it wouldn't dawn on me to get offended if I heard a Korean advocating "no Whites in Korea" or expressing disgust with Asian women dating White men.


Blogger Markku May 30, 2016 10:03 AM  

Fun math homework:

In this thread, how many messages of useful suggestions, and how many messages of infighting over everybody's pet doctrine?

Blogger Markku May 30, 2016 10:04 AM  

Ongoing homework for fun and profit, so keep counting.

Anonymous Anonymous May 30, 2016 10:05 AM  

In the youth class I teach yesterday, the Hebrew insult "dog" for gentile came up from another verse. The other teacher mentioned how Jesus used it (passage VD used in the post). The youth were shocked that Jesus would insult anyone!

Anonymous CS May 30, 2016 10:12 AM  

Paul also instructs to pray for those in Authority. Why? because while they are already under heaven and under God, they are liable to fallen natures which don't know it. But pray for what?
Thy Kingdom Come, one precept at a time, one line at a time, one meter at a time, one inch at a time.

Phillip George, this is a non-sequitor. Yes, Paul has us pray for those in authority, and yes for the reason given. But it doesn't follow that that prayer is for the temporal advancement of the Kingdom. I would need to see something that links those two ideas together in a coherent manner.

Anonymous CS May 30, 2016 10:16 AM  


I only mean to show the biblical roots of the division of the nations. Unfortunately that has devolved into a debate on dominionism. Time to move on.

Blogger Markku May 30, 2016 10:17 AM  

Time, yes. But the thread won't. I can say that from experience. It will simply find another thing to fight over. In the end there will be 200 messages and nothing useful said.

"I want a piece of THAT action!"

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 30, 2016 10:20 AM  

"pastor first, and if he is supportive, with the elders next."

Good advice. Christians are not usurpers of authority. Up front, not deceivers but wise in puruing a Godly goal.

Blogger Artisanal Toad May 30, 2016 10:23 AM  

Have one of your kids face the class and read Matthew 23 to them as if he was addressing them. Should be fun. I consider it a good standard to use for insults.

Anonymous Bo Sears May 30, 2016 10:24 AM  

While there is a lot of hostility toward the Seven Noahide Commandments in the OT, it appears that some portions of them are very supportive toward this cause. Many enlightened white Americans are disenchanted with them because of a Jewish sect's movement to claim leadership for non-Jews to keep us on the straight and narrow in terms of obeying them, but in fact the Noahide Seven Commandments speak to a world long preceding the emergence of Hebrews (or Jews) who base their identity and reason for existence on the text of the Ten Mosaic Commandments given on the top of a mountain and referencing a need to pick one out of many gods. There's a lot of gold to mine in the context of the Seven Noahide Commandments that has been left unexamined because of outrageous claims by the late-comers, namely the Hebrews and their Ten Commandments.

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 30, 2016 10:28 AM  

I would to the advice that always keep the verse in its context. And that other verses, in their context, be used to stress or to add or clarify.

On immigration, a tack that I find myself using frequently is that Evangelicals are trying to establish a characteristic of Jesus's eternal reign on Earth, by human means; not ours to implement.

Blogger VD May 30, 2016 10:37 AM  

This is generally inadvisable. Picking specific verses to prove your point can be dangerous. Historical context and the context of the passage should always play a part in interpretation. Good hermeneutics are important.

We're not dealing with theology here, or even dialectic. The purpose is rhetorical.

Or were you under the impression that any Churchian preaching the Gospel of Nice is going to engage in an honest theological discussion?

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 30, 2016 10:51 AM  

VD, I think I understand bit I am not sure. In Sunday school, Bible study, is theological studies. If the class is about then taking the theology and applying in pre-evangelism then I am in agreement.

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 30, 2016 10:54 AM  

"Or were you under the impression that any Churchian preaching the Gospel of Nice is going to engage in an honest theological discussion?"

Very few but think of the target as the other quiet around who are listening. Sowong seeds, as it were for someone else to water and others to harvest.

Blogger slarrow May 30, 2016 11:25 AM  

Matthew 7:5-6. The "nice" folks love to talk about the preceding verses about "judge not lest ye be judged" and the motes and beams, but they like to stop at verse 4. But verse 5 is commanding you to purify yourself (get the beam out of your own eye) and THEN help your brother become pure (the speck out of his). The current Nice position is to do nothing and say nothing ("who am I to judge?") so that both of you remain blinded.

Oh, and verse 6: "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine...." Sounds like a Biblical injunction not to waste dialectic on rhetoric speakers to me.

Blogger Darayvus May 30, 2016 11:35 AM  

Agreed that SJWAL isn't relevant to the "Churchian" debate as such, but I come to this from a different standpoint. I see that book as a war manual. In the church as described here, the SJWs haven't yet discovered this ripe target. So there's not yet a general need for it here.

I'm sure there are *individuals* in this congregation who have run across SJWs, so the book can be gifted to those parishioners, outside the church's setting.

Blogger Rick May 30, 2016 11:41 AM  

One thing about Christianity: it is a revealed religion. Which is to say, Christ can be understood with the application of meditation, reason, and prayer. These things are not required to be a Christian, but if one wants to gain understanding, Christ can be understood without paradox and conflict, and so forth.

The second thing: Christ uses words with precision.

In order to join those two statements, here is an example:

"Love thy neighbor.."


"The poor you will have with you always."

You know the context of these two statements from Christ and they seem to be in conflict.
However I think, (and this relates to the subject of this post) that by "the poor" Christ is referring to a non-local, imagined poor person (because Judas is imagining some poor person they may meet someday) and "your neighbor" means that person right in front of you; which was the woman Mary who was preparing Christ for his death. Judas would rather help the imagined at the expense of the one at hand.

Also, the commandment, "thou shall not steal" suggests property rights which is "borders" in one basic sense.

Blogger Markku May 30, 2016 11:47 AM  

Jhn 12:6
This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein

He didn't have ANY kind of poor in mind.

Blogger Rick May 30, 2016 11:53 AM  

I said nothing about Judas intentions, but you're missing what Christ said about "the poor."

Anonymous Camilla Cameo May 30, 2016 11:55 AM  

I'd be interested to see a movement among Protestants comparable to the rad trads of Catholicism. They've been on the margins and the defensive for so long but are starting to go on the offensive, thanks be to God, now that Bergoglio is making it undeniable that modernist "mercy" has nothing to do with Our Lord. And I hope my mentioning this doesn't compel people to try to refight the Reformation. Again.

(Verification images included a statue of Christ the King!)

Blogger LES May 30, 2016 11:55 AM  

Christianity is heresy to rabbinical Judaism. Their eschatology is to rule the nations from Jerusalem. Tikkun Olam, repair the world, to make everyone nice and docile to be ruled by the Chosen. The ADL has shown the way with the ever expanding protected classes.

The Church needs to unlink from Judeo-Christianity.

Anonymous redsash May 30, 2016 11:56 AM  

The Church needs zeal. Numbers will follow.

I would go to the elders first and not the preacher. Does the preacher hire the elders, or is it the elders who hire the preacher?

... and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, ...(Acts. 17:26) Seems pretty clear that the Lord is not in favor of open borders. Also clear is the concept that those borders are subject to change over time.

Blogger LES May 30, 2016 12:02 PM  

Pastors are afraid of the government and lawsuits for violating somebody's civil rights. Prosecuting a bakery for declining to bake a cake is just a shot across the bow.

Anonymous Gen. Kong May 30, 2016 12:05 PM  

Going back to comment #1, there are indeed a few good ones out there. Those who are ready for it should be encouraged to read Cambria Will Not Yield, which is generally quite good at connecting the historical Christian roots of the civilization whose destruction is under way at the hands of SJWs, the SJWs in jackets and ties who inhabit places like NRO (and most Christian institutions) and the cucks who follow along to stay in the Cult of Nice. As I've mentioned before, cucks who follow along are not going to be allowed to exist any longer if the SJW forces and the Banksta Oligarchy who funds them win the battle: Cuck is merely a temporary state - a useful idiot on his way to the gulag where he'd end his days as a zek. The war has been under way for some time. Thankfully a few folks seem to be at last waking up to this.

Anonymous Xarbo May 30, 2016 12:15 PM  

I'd recommend picking up a copy of Crazy Love by Francis Chan, it's specifically directed at moving believers from lukewarm churchian to committed followers of Jesus.

Anonymous 360 May 30, 2016 12:21 PM  

"We're not dealing with theology here, or even dialectic. The purpose is rhetorical.

Or were you under the impression that any Churchian preaching the Gospel of Nice is going to engage in an honest theological discussion?"

You are using rhetoric but the subject is theology, Alt-right theology.

There are Churchians who will engage in theological debate to debate this topic. I have discussed this very topic (immigration) with many who fall into this camp. From my experience, the Churchians are a bit different from SJWs. They are a bit more varied than the SJWs and are not as easily lumped into one block (I assume because there are so many denominations) and they will actually engage in a theological debate over immigration.

At the end of the day, I just want to encourage us who follow Christ to take care in our exegesis of a text and to remember that many we will be debating still serve our Savior, however misled they may be. To be sure, we have a duty to point out error but we also have the added burden of doing it in a way that glorifies Christ.

Blogger Unknown May 30, 2016 12:29 PM  

@78: "The Church needs to unlink from Judeo-Christianity."

I am old enough to remember way before *Christianty* "became" "Judeo"-Christianity in the common parlance. When I grew up, that phrase would NEVER have been used, or even have occurred to folks! (((Who))) dyah suppose 'worked that' into common concepts? (And probably created churchianity to sap the church from within?!) I do not ever refer to "Judeo"-Christianty -- and I'd suggest y'all consider ceasing to do so too!

Anonymous Anonymous May 30, 2016 12:44 PM  

It's called the "Nice"en Creed for a reason. Get with the program or be forever banished.

Anonymous Anonymous May 30, 2016 12:46 PM  

It's called the "Nice"en Creed for a reason. Get with the program or be forever banished.

Blogger Artisanal Toad May 30, 2016 12:49 PM  

On the subject of rhetoric...

"God judged women to be incompetent and appointed guardians for them: they're called husbands." Genesis 3:16; Numbers 30; Ephesians 5:22-24; 1st Peter 3:1-6.

"God does not hold men and women to the same norms of sexual conduct, which is why a man can have more than one wife while a woman can only have one husband." Genesis 2:24; Leviticus 18:20; Deuteronomy 25:5-10; 1st Samuel 12:8; Jeremiah 31:31-32.

"Have you not read that women are to be silent in the church and if they have questions they're to ask their husbands at home... because it's improper for a woman to speak in church?" Genesis 3:16; 1st Corinthians 14:32-33

If they have a snappy/snarky comeback to that, this works *really* well with women of a certain age... direct eye contact required, don't be ashamed.

"Oh- you *didn't* read that part of the Bible. I see... you must have been too busy reading Ezekiel 23:19-21 and thinking about lovers who were hung like a donkey and the way men manhandled you when you were young and firm."

"God does not consider men and women to be equal, which is why male homosexuality is prohibited and condemned while female homosexuality isn't even mentioned." Leviticus 18:22-23; 20:13-16

That's actually a churchian trap because if they bring up Romans 1:26 their claim boils down to the "natural function" meaning sex (which is not mentioned). Get them to admit it first, then: "You're saying a woman's natural function is sex, so that means Eve was created to be Adam's sex toy and a woman's purpose in life is to provide men with sex. You need to stop reading 50 Shades of Ghey."

Anyway, those are good to shut down the women who think they get a pass because they're female and their white knights, but without knowing and understanding Genesis 2:24 and Genesis 3:16, it's a waste of time. Feminism gained its moral authority when the church threw out that part of Scripture back around 300-400 AD and replaced it with pagan beliefs, stoic philosophy and roman law because in doing so they usurped the authority/power of the man in marriage. They claimed sex was evil and sexual desire was absolute wickedness, so men and women were to be held to the same sexual norms: don't do it. All their doctrines were built around the concept of men and women being equal. The chart I linked to earlier explains all that.

I suggest that anyone who wishes to get rid of the churchian cucks and feminists learn the history of where their doctrine came from, because the church created it 1500 years ago. You have one-stop shopping with "Law, Sex and Christian Society in Medieval Europe" by James Brundage. About 700 pages of heavy-duty scholarship. Kevin MacDonald is also good and his monograph on Socially Imposed Monogamy in Western Europe is excellent (and available online), but he's associated with Stormfront while nobody knows who Brundage is.

If you know the history you can identify where the various doctrines come from and point out that they didn't come from the Bible, they came from pagans, stoics and roman law. When I hear it I say

"That's an Easter Bunny argument"


"Why do you believe the Easter Bunny? Don't you believe in God's Word?"

There are lots of ways to expand on that theme because the Easter Bunny is fictional but under certain conditions people will admit he's real; and being a rabbit you can play off of that with r/k selection theory. If you want to sexualize it and mock them... what are rabbits known for?

Blogger tz May 30, 2016 1:07 PM  

End the Neo-Worship, part of Kreeft's PHONEYS.
text transcript

Mainly for Catholics, but I'd call on the black robe regiment. There are thousands of sermons from the time before the revolutionary war, the war between the states, and the great awakenings.

You wish to be a circuit rider? Invoke the democracy of the dead (tradition - Chesterton).

But note a church of NICE (jane studdock rejected the masculine in that hideous strength).

Again, don't confuse the symptom with the disease.

Sheep can acquire wolves' clothing but still won't have useful claws and fangs. At best you and displace with a church of nasty and the most important man in the room.

You must remove the Nice, but with truth. The first letter in PHONEYS is P for politicization. Jesus isn't a democrat or republican, nor is he alt-right. He is the way, the truth, and the life.

You may succeed in flipping nice to alt-right, but the devil has goal-posts on the right and the left - look up all the verses that say "neither to the right nor the left". We should be looking up to heaven where Christ, our hope is. Not to fallen men nor the best philosophy.

A dim red bulb or a dim blue bulb, neither shines like the mid-day sun which destroys all darkness.

Spiritual warfare will win the culture wars. But most don't wish to fight on that field.

Anonymous Anonymous May 30, 2016 1:34 PM  

In all of these, keep in mind the Greek word translated as "nation" is "ethnos".

"And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,"
- Acts 17:26

"After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!"
-Revelation 7:9-10

"By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it,
and its gates will never be shut by day-and there will be no night there. They will bring into it the glory and the honor of the nations."
-Revelation 21:24-26

On the Revelation verses, it's a good thing to point out this will not be possible if all countries follow the "moral imperative" of open borders.

Also, it's good to ask the rhetorical question of what these kings are kings of? Globalist entities? Planets?

Finally, if someone throws out the verses in the Torah about not mistreating foreigners, remind them the Torah as a constitution is for Israel and not America. And even then those verses don't tell us what is a proper borders policy.

Blogger tz May 30, 2016 1:51 PM  

A concern for niceness and inclusivity uber alles. A refusal to call a spade a spade.
Euchre and bridge parties might be interesting.
Charity is anti-nice. It says to stop sinning. To expose the nice lies.

There are also militant churches - dissonance is easier to hear, but there are no shortage of good churches (liberty fellowship with Chuck Baldwin is one who renounced 501c3 and moved his whole congregation to Kalispell), but they might not be physically nearby. But there's you-tube.

Mark 9:18
Whenever it seizes him, it throws him to the ground. He foams at the mouth, gnashes his teeth, and becomes rigid. I asked Your disciples to drive it out, but they were unable.” (19)“O unbelieving generation! Jesus replied.“How long must I remain with you? How long must I put up with you? Bring the boy to Me.”

The first spiritual nuclear bomb dropped at Pentecost. There have been others all throughout history including the battle of LaPonto that defeated Islam, Guadaloupe that ended Aztec sacrifice, that which ignited the American revolution and the first great Awakening. And when Wilberforce ended slavery in the British empire.

Do any here believe in the power and Glory in Christ? The transfiguration? Resurrection? Ascension? The book of Revelation?

Maybe. But church should be amsocial occasion among friends. Alt-right friends in this case. Not hugs, but firm handshakes. Manly sermons, but no hellfire and brimstone. The left rejects such a thing as sin, but the right does too. Eternal death? Damnation? What's that?
Holocaust? You mean Abortion? Lets not mention that.

Lets play with archery and swords - really nice ones! Maybe let a few play with flintlocks. Not high powered guns, much less tanks or nuclear bombs. We'd have to eject our pet sins and exorcise the devils saying all those encouraging words about concrete action - manosphere, red pill, civilization. Jesus Christ must not be invoked except in abstract terms, not as the living all-powerful God that has already won the war. There are demonic pawns aplenty to be sacrificed to the swords and arrows, but it is a deception. A Maginot line. Let them win the culture but lose heaven.

Blogger tz May 30, 2016 2:11 PM  

No one wants the fire of Pentecost.

They want a lukewarm church. right or left. matriarchial or patriarchal. nice or alt-right.

2 Tim 3
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth

Fierce? Heady? lets pick the other words because we like masculine vices.

Denying the power of God.

I see the Devil, his maneuvers, ambushes, illusions, deceptions. The church of nice is only one such. But it isn't that hard, remember the Devil's goal. To kill you eternally. His opposition, and your salvation - which your lips say even if your heart doesn't - is in Christ. The Devil will win every dialectic or rhetorical argument.

This is Weston v.s. Ransom in Perelandra. Ransom fought a losing battle using words.

Prayer, fasting, and almsgiving are the basic training weapons. Praise and thanksgiving too when it is for God, not emotion.

"This kind (of demon) only comes out with prayer and fasting". Not biblical rhetoric. And obey the commandments - avoid, repent, confess sin, you are either in a state of grace or a tool of the devil, perhaps vichy more than nazi, but still not the resistance.

Anonymous anticuck May 30, 2016 3:23 PM  

The biggest churchian myth that alt-right theology must destroy is that God loves everyone.

Leviticus 20:23 - "And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them."

Leviticus 26:30 - "And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you."

Deuteronomy 32:19 - "And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters."

Psalm 5:5 - "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity."

Psalm 5:6 - "Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man."

Psalm 10:3 - "For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth."

Psalm 11:5 - "The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth."

Psalm 53:5 - "There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them."

Psalm 73:20 - "As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image."

Psalm 78:59 - "When God heard this, he was wroth, and greatly abhorred Israel:"

Psalm 106:40 - "Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance."

Proverbs 6:16-19 - "These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."

Proverbs 22:14 - "The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the LORD shall fall therein."

Lamentations 2:6 - "And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest."

Hosea 9:15 - "All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters."

Zechariah 11:8 - "Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me."

Malachi 1:3 - "And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness."

Romans 9:13 - "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

Blogger Viisaus May 30, 2016 3:23 PM  

Here is one simple but powerful point that we could bring up: the idea that inequality IN ITSELF is wrong or sinful is nowhere to be found in the Bible, nor is it supported by natural reason. Instead, this concept is nourished by such sins as envy and flattery, and thus the modern fashion of preaching indiscriminately against all inequality is an un-Biblical "tradition of men"; one could compare it to some parasitic plant or fungus that grows around churches.

Protestants especially could easily find the theoretical basis to denounce Equality-fetishism is an un-Biblical tradition that we need a new reformation against. Its rotten fruits are obvious to all who have eyes to see.

Even though I do not feel great fondness for the slave-system of Southern Confederacy, I still think that American ultra-Abolitionism was probably the proverbial "crossing of Rubicon" in this regard: by condemning all slavery without any qualifications or caveats, many churches turned their back on clear Biblical authority and preferred humanistic egalitarian ideology instead.

I believe that George Fitzhugh was right on this particular subject, and that those Christians who dogmatically denounce all forms of servitude are on a slippery slope to Anarchism (thinking that there should not be any hierarchical system of "masters and servants" in this world).

Furthermore, we can see stereotypical "do as I say, not as I do" Pharisee hypocrisy all around the anti-racist movement, as Churchian antifas like to live in as White neighborhoods as possible.

Blogger VD May 30, 2016 3:33 PM  

They want a lukewarm church. right or left. matriarchial or patriarchal. nice or alt-right.

First, who are you to say what they want? Second, at least they want more than to simply bitch at anyone who does anything and strike poses as the most holy man in the room.

That's your legacy, tz. Are you really proud of that?

I see the Devil, his maneuvers, ambushes, illusions, deceptions.

No doubt, Church Lady.

Anonymous Ken May 30, 2016 4:12 PM  

Christianity became hopelessly muddled into Churchianity around the time when "Judeo-Christianity" became a term. The new rules are to make no judgements, to not even recognize spiritual discernment, to have open borders, diversity, multiculturalism, and to accede to PC lies while accepting Globalism.

Run by (((Revelation 2:9 people)))

Commanded by ⛧2 Corinthians 4:4⛧

Satan destroys the Seat of Christ using liars who call themselves Jews, cucking the would be saved and insulting the Man-God Jew Himself, Jesus, all the while building a One World Government that places worship of itself at the top.

It's the ultimate fuck you. We're battling the Devil here.

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 30, 2016 4:20 PM  

First mention of Fitzhugh in this blog, that I can recall.

Blogger Artisanal Toad May 30, 2016 4:45 PM  

@93Even though I do not feel great fondness for the slave-system of Southern Confederacy, I still think that American ultra-Abolitionism was probably the proverbial "crossing of Rubicon" in this regard: by condemning all slavery without any qualifications or caveats, many churches turned their back on clear Biblical authority and preferred humanistic egalitarian ideology instead.

It was not slavery itself that was the problem, rather, the unbiblical treatment of the slave women who were available in many cases to any white man. They forgot they were to keep the whole Law of God and it came back to bite them in the ass. Consider that in the Antebellum South is was fashionable for slave-owners to have preachers come in an evangelize the slaves because Christians made better workers. It seems they also forgot about 1st Peter 2:18-20.

In the south the preachers and churches supported slavery, citing the Biblical authority while ignoring crop after crop of brown babies, imagining they fell off the turnip wagon. In the North the churches ignored the authority of Scripture and focused on the treatment of the slaves. In the end, both were right and both were wrong,

Look at the blessings and curses for keeping or rejecting God's Law. On the curses side of the house eventually God sends in an invading army. I suspect that God held some of those men and women in very high esteem as they bore up well for the sake of conscience under their harsh treatment and the South did get just such an invading army. Again, it wasn't the slavery, it was the unBiblical treatment of the slaves, especially the women.

On a purely practical note, hindsight being 20-20 and all, we should have picked our own damn cotton.

Blogger ray May 30, 2016 5:09 PM  

'The Church has no need of numbers; just 12 Apostles were all that was required to shake the world.'

It's always about quality, not quantity, and this time will be no different. Except that this time will terminate with the arrival of Christ, rather than the setting up of yet another satanic, I mean humanist, polity. Well it'll get set up but very briefly. Just long enough for this world to get its wish, then run screaming from its wish.

Blogger ray May 30, 2016 5:24 PM  

#3 -- That's a pretty good summary. The nations were separated, postdiluvial, under authority of territorial angels (who are NOT 'gods') until the world receives Christ. The world hated and murdered Christ, so now it must wait for his enthronement by imposition. He will rule the planet absolutely, but for some period of time, the nations still will function with territory and some level of autonomy. For example, Scripture attests that nations disobeying the King will receive no rain, have a real nice year! Folks will come around pretty quick after that. And they won't be clamoring for Democracy, either.

Blogger FALPhil May 30, 2016 5:33 PM  

@93 Viisaus
Even though I do not feel great fondness for the slave-system of ante-bellum United States of America, I still think that American ultra-Abolitionism was probably the proverbial "crossing of Rubicon" in this regard: by condemning all slavery without any qualifications or caveats, many churches turned their back on clear Biblical authority and preferred humanistic egalitarian ideology instead.

Fixed it for you.

I believe that George Fitzhugh was right on this particular subject, and that those Christians who dogmatically denounce all forms of servitude are on a slippery slope to Anarchism (thinking that there should not be any hierarchical system of "masters and servants" in this world).

And what, exactly is wrong with anarchy? As long as crimes against person and property are minimal, about which there is lots of historical evidence that there that crime rates would be lower than or equal to that of "governed" societies, I don't see any problems with anarchy. Are you afraid of someone parking a mobile home on the lot next to your McMansion?

Anonymous Anonymous May 30, 2016 6:16 PM  

LOL - Astrology has thousands of years of history behind it too. It's silly. Oh those grand giants upon whose shoulders we stand!

Blogger Artisanal Toad May 30, 2016 6:29 PM  

Anybody ever notice that churchians talk way too much about the Proverbs 31 woman (but can't find her) and never talk about the Job 29 man?

I put on righteousness and it clothed me; my justice was like a robe and turban.

I investigated the case which I did not know and I broke the jaws of the wicked and snatched the prey from his teeth.

And let's not forget why that Proverbs 31 woman is so rare:

Ecclesiastes 7:28
"Look," says the Teacher, "this is what I have discovered: Adding one thing to another to discover the scheme of things --while I was still searching but not finding-- I found one upright man among a thousand, but not one upright woman among them all."

Blogger Viisaus May 30, 2016 7:37 PM  

Another major factor that makes real Christianity incompatible with modern corruption is the little-known fact that flattery is a sin. Modern egalitarian democracy depends so heavily on flattery - telling people pleasant untruths they want to hear. Vox populi, vox Dei, is NOT a Christian principle.

Crowd-pleasing politicians are forced to praise, or at least refrain from criticizing, their potential voters, whether they deserve it or not. No true preacher or prophet could accept such limitations.

And unsurprisingly, the worst "Liberal Christian" outrages are intimately connected to the essentially democratic institution of popularity contests, as hapless churchmen or women seek cheap applause from the world, and since they are unable to earn it with genuine accomplishments or self-denial, they instead resort to flattery and pandering me-too gimmicks, while betraying the moral and doctrinal heritage of their churches in the process - selling the family silver for their own mean purposes, metaphorically speaking.

Blogger Aeoli Pera May 30, 2016 7:38 PM  

The purpose of Churchianity is to subvert the church for global Socialism. The tendency of white people to "Nice"-ness is the means by which they subvert. The purpose of Socialism was always to replace Christian charity with government institutions- they fight for the same place within a man's soul, this is why Socialists act like religious people. Thus, a program to root out Churchianity must explicitly oppose the tactics of global Socialism.

This is a partial list:

1. Feminism, androgyny, and sexualization of children
2. Centralized education
3. Atheist materialism
4. Central banking (and the income tax)
5. Marketing (making propaganda a profession and palatable to Americans because capitalism)
6. "Comparative" religious studies, basically the idea that all religions are the same
7. The nation state's monopoly on violence
8. Open borders and anti-nationalism
9. Subversion of culture
10. Destruction of the nuclear family
11. Blank slatism

and most importantly,

12. Anti-propertarianism (to be replaced by government)
13. Control of the food/water supply and distribution

(Please to add more ideas to this list.)

Here are books you can read to understand each of these in-depth:

1. Equality: The Impossible Quest
2. The Underground History of American Education
3. The End of Reason (Zacharias), The Irrational Atheist, On the Existence of Gods (Vox Day and Salterelli), Messengers of Deception, Evidence that Demands a Verdict
4. The Creature from Jekyll Island
5. Propaganda (Bernays), SJWs Always Lie, 1984
6. Evidence that Demands a Verdict
7. (Dunno, probably something by Jefferson)
8. Cuckservative
9-13. Dunno

The Biblical counters for each of these can be found easily enough, except for the education one.

Any systemic problem must be fixed at the correct level of abstraction. This is why it helps to understand where "Nice" comes from (and I don't mean etymology). Nice is to the new world order religion as enlightenment is to Buddhism. It's the ideal mental state, the internalization of the "golden rule", and all the more dangerous because it's the natural inclination of hwhite people. All signs point to global leaders acting to exterminate first-world white nations first.

It is a subversion because it was Jesus' second command, the first being to love God with all your heart, soul, and mind. If God doesn't exist, or you don't love him, there's zero reason to love your neighbor. None. It becomes a sentimental and morally bankrupt position, and that's the point. People won't actually follow it after a while.

Blogger Aeoli Pera May 30, 2016 7:51 PM  

Perhaps the most important aspect of your approach is tactical, regarding people. I recommend regarding each amenable person as a sort of investment that will pay off exponentially over time, because they will begin to support you and take action on their own. Keep a journal, a spreadsheet or a notebook if that helps you to keep track of who is the most amenable and who is relatively useless, as well as known enemies of the faith.

There is a reason that authoritarians clamp down on free speech hard and early. They fear the explosive compound interest of determined individuals putting in a little bit of effort every day.

Blogger Viisaus May 30, 2016 7:52 PM  

"If God doesn't exist, or you don't love him, there's zero reason to love your neighbor. None."

I think the Buddhists have come closest to providing a rationale for atheistic altruism (Buddhism is sometimes categorized as "atheistic religion"):

"Six centuries before Jesus Christ, the Buddha already knew that if all that exists is matter then the human self cannot exist either:

"Therefore, he deconstructed the Hindu idea of the soul. When one starts peeling the onion skin of one's psyche, he discovers that there is no solid core at the center of one's being. Your sense of self is an illusion. Reality is nonself (anatman). You don't exist. Liberation, the Buddha taught, is realizing the unreality of your existence." (The Book That Made Your World: How the Bible Created the Soul of Western Civilization, Vishal Mangalwadi, p. 6)"

"Mahayana Buddhism said that the Buddhist sage should strive to enlighten all beings. They said it was selfish to be striving for one’s own individual enlightenment, especially when Buddhism taught there was not such entity as the self. By accenting the central Buddhist notion that there was no self, the later Mahayana Buddhists transformed the notion of the Buddhist sage into a totally altruistic being.

The bodhisattva, like the good utilitarian, is concerned for all persons equally. The bodhisattva “must educate his mind that he may feel in each case the same affection for all creatures that naturally centres in his son, or in himself.”[clvi] There is no privileging of the bodhisattva’s personal sorrows or personal concerns over the concerns of other people. “Another’s sorrow is to be destroyed by me because it is sorrow like my own sorrow…Since a neighbor and I are equal in desiring happiness, what is the unique quality of the ‘self’ which requires an effort for happiness?”[clvii] This is what the bodhisattva continually says to herself: “All sorrows, without distinction are ownerless; and because of misery they are to be prevented…Not just in myself. Everywhere!”[clviii]"

Blogger tz May 30, 2016 8:04 PM  

My legacy will be seen in eternity.

St. Paul talks about those opposing him.

Either I'm right or wrong. I do not see the Devil in everything, but assuming I'm not like Churchill pointing out Chamberlain is not fighting the right battle is dangerous.

As to what I say they want, I can only try to clarify their stated goals. I've not seen anyone wishing to put Christ first or on the throne - that is what I've suggested and it seems to have been soundly rejected.

We supported Stalin in WW2 (who my Father was wounded fighting in) and Eastern Europe was part of the Soviet Empire for 40 years.

That is one of the alternative possibilities if we put victory over Christ.

If my legacy is merely to point out that those in the Sudetenland will be as much slaves under Stalin as they are under Hitler, then I've done more than Churchill at Yalta. Is it unreasonable to ask what was the point of WW2 at this pivot point - the key Chamberlain concession - as well as Danzig or the Polish Corridor was if the great expense of blood and treasure was merely to give the very same land we said we were defending to a different devil?

I've noted the parallel - 4GW must be fought on the moral level, and this culture war is moral and spiritual, so the weapons, tactics, and strategies for the wrong generation or the wrong war won't work (or might achieve a counterproductive victory - we "won" Fallujah).

Remember I'm a Catholic so with Frances I have far larger battles to fight (the only good I can see is a reconciliation with SSPX).

If I avoid the equivalent of the evils of Yalta, it will be a glorious legacy for which the saints, living and dead (which I will likely be after the dust settles) will rejoice at and praise God for.

My Lord confirms I'm on the right track on a weekly if not daily basis. Dozens if not hundreds of circumstances have brought me to sweet victory. In eternity we are both utterly irrelevant.

I do not see the Devil everywhere. I see him roughly to the extent Peter Kreeft sees him. Yet he is active. Yet read the very Gospels you are asking people to find verses. That you see the devil nowhere is at least equally a problem.

Perhaps we should address where is or isn't the devil, or his influence. The Screwtape Letters might be fiction but is applicable.

Either the Devil and demons exist or not. If they do they are either an influence or not. Either we have defenses or do not. There are serious consequences for getting any of these wrong.

Whither Demons

I do not think you will have much difficulty in keeping the patient in the dark. The fact that “devils” are predominantly comic figures in the modern imagination will help you. If any faint suspicion of your existence begins to arise in his mind, suggest to him a picture of something in red tights, and persuade him that since he cannot believe in that (it is an old textbook method of confusing them) he therefore cannot believe in you.

Blogger tz May 30, 2016 8:21 PM  

To revise and extend my remarks...

I specifically moved to a location I've been called and would elaborate except for OPSEC. St. Paul speaks of spiritual gifts. I've been blessed (though pained) with them.

The current situation has shifted. I'm Lot, having left Sodom.

Trump will either be an agent of restoration or judgment - worse than Hillary who is merely broken but not 'bent' per Out of the Silent Planet.

Jeremiah 28.
5 Then the prophet Jeremiah replied to the prophet Hananiah before the priests and all the people who were standing in the house of the Lord. 6 He said, “Amen! May the Lord do so! May the Lord fulfill the words you have prophesied by bringing the articles of the Lord’s house and all the exiles back to this place from Babylon.

This is a split. I do not agree with Wright on many things but would be interested on how he perceives the spiritual realm currently.

Jeremiah's legacy was to point out the destruction to come. Perhaps that is mine.

Blogger tz May 30, 2016 8:26 PM  

Correction, I do not suggest that I will likely be a saint when the dust settles, only that I will be acknowledged by the saints as being correct or merely proclaiming the truth when the dust settles.

Blogger tz May 30, 2016 8:31 PM  

I can defer. You've talked much about your mentors.

Who is your spiritual sensi? Who will humble you with opponents? Who will train you?

I would be made much greater by even a simple interaction with such.

Blogger Phillip George May 30, 2016 8:39 PM  

some very good post over night [my time]

perhaps, just maybe, what might have ended a lot of the argument is

"royal priesthood"

You are to be and are "priests" unto whom? and "kings" unto whom?

the statement that we are to wait for God to make us these things doesn't cut it. If you are not a king and priest today it is because you let your team down.

As for all the law of the O.T. - to whom and where was it said?

God didn't step down from Heaven to build Moses tent tabernacle nor to build the first or second temples. He got men to dirty their hands and feet.

He did step down to build the third temple metaphorically, He impregnated Mary. To as many as believe gave He the rights to be Sons of God. RoyalPriests like unto Melchizedek. King and Priest. Unto whom and of what?

Get your hands dirty. Own it for Jesus. Build it, line upon line, precept upon precept, a little here, a little there, fill the earth, replenish it, take the Kingdom of God everywhere. Occupy until He comes or takes you out/ quite literally.

Blogger tz May 30, 2016 8:40 PM  

My legacy will be defined to the exact extent - no more or less - than what "My Lord and My God" says "Well Done!" at the Bema Seat.

I'm curious as to what you will evaluate your legacy if it is different?

Blogger tz May 30, 2016 8:42 PM  

(meta - I should note there was much argument in the spiritual realm about the previous posts, yet given the "great cloud of witnesses", I can only submit and echo the words Jesus has give me in an imperfect fashion, including this).

Blogger Phillip George May 30, 2016 9:01 PM  

tz. there has been a "very very great" falling away.

Wouldn't the Roman Catholic church's apostasies have played a significant role in that?

Blogger Phillip George May 30, 2016 9:10 PM  

quoting a faithful Catholic posting at PrisonPlanet:

tired of the bs guest • 6 days ago
Born and raised Catholic. Schooled in Catholic ideology and this current "Pope" is a heretic. I will go one step further, possibly this is the final "Pope" and he very well could be the false prophet mentioned in John's Revelation.

Jesus is the one true way. The Bible is God's word. Jesus won salvation for man at the cross. A "Pope" that says otherwise is working for satan.

God's attributes: Life, love, free will, order, creation, truth, freedom

satan's attributes: Death, hate, oppression, chaos, destruction, lies, slavery

Jesus preached love.

Allah did not..........doubt that then read the Koran

Blogger SirHamster May 30, 2016 9:13 PM  

One Churchian idea I've had to refute lately dealt with Trump's citing Eye for an Eye as a verse he liked.

Some cited Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, claiming it was repudiated, thus indicating that Trump is a faker who doesn't know his Bible:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you ... " (Matt 5:38)

They didn't have a good answer when it was pointed out that a little earlier, Jesus says,

"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' But I tell you ..." (Matt 5:21)

"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I tell you ..." (Matt 5:27)

Declaring that the OT laws on murder and adultery were repudiated was a bridge too far, I guess.

Blogger SirHamster May 30, 2016 9:17 PM  

Another Churchian topic would be "Don't Judge". Just reading a little further would show:

"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." (Matt 7:6)

What is sacred? What's a pearl? Who are dogs? Who are pigs?

What is the act of deciding these things?

Blogger Elder Son May 30, 2016 9:26 PM  



Also, Steve Quayle has done research on this.

That headline I put up there is just the tip of the iceberg.

And, you can go to youtube and search "Tom Horn", "Chris Putman", and "Steve Quayle", or all three in one.

And scroll the videos looking for the above mentioned names here:

You might, find it fascinating.

Blogger Elder Son May 30, 2016 9:44 PM  

Hear is a 3 hour interview with the 3 men. TOPIC: The Final Roman Emperor, Islamic Anti-Christ and the Vatican’s Role -

Anonymous מִיכָאֵל May 30, 2016 9:52 PM  

Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεός ἦν ὁ λόγος

Oh, Hai.

Real Fucking Deal here. Big Wings and Fuck off desire to cleanse you all from G_D's world for ruining it here.

Just a head's up to all involved.

You're no longer "Christians" if by this we mean "followers and believers in Christ".

Hint: מִיכָאֵל

Small tip:

The Gospels were formed in the First Council of Nicaea, AD325.

Matthew is for the lowest class.
Mark for the merchants.
Luke for the professionals.
John for the intellectuals.

HE came for universal love and allowing you to all become more like us.


This stuff offends us. You're not Christians, I take a moment to look into your minds and you're Mammon worshipers.

Blogger weka May 30, 2016 9:58 PM  

Heresy to Reformed Judaism. But they have converged

Blogger Phillip George May 30, 2016 10:04 PM  

wow Michael. just wow. Golf claps. One handed golf claps, even better. Or hand waves to your intrinsic sensitivities,

Just what part about the Resurrection of Yahoshuah, Mashiach Ha Kodesh ישוע המשיח don't you really understand.

Be specific. Be very very specific.

Anonymous andon May 30, 2016 10:04 PM  

m not religious but I used to listen to program on the radio - Southwest Ministries or something like that, based out of Oklahoma. One of the hosts names was Noah Hutchings iirc and he used to cite a passage about "so and so over there rustling behind that tree" as a justification for deporting the illegal aliens. It said basically look out for yourself first.

btw these churches are taking in $$$ for "resettling" the invaders

Anonymous מִיכָאֵל May 30, 2016 10:05 PM  

No, really. I attempt to translate as much as possible (no more Aramaic), but really. I'd do this in Sumerian but I've learn that's no longer understood. Your fonts don't handle it well.

You are literally all Not Christians. Not followers of HIM.

That's allowed (I suspect you probably should be thankful for the changes between the OT and NT and then that egotistical wanker who then cut us off from your world while he enjoyed his underaged bride), but please.

Cut the bullcrap.

You serve other G_Ds with this - and they're mostly boring old farts from Babylon. None of this is actually Christian.

Hint: We got upgrades as well.

Blogger Phillip George May 30, 2016 10:10 PM  

G_D is יְהֹוָה
but we don't have capitals in Hebrew.

and Jesus, aka Yahoshuah if יְהֹוָה only begotten
Son, born of flesh, Fathered by יְהֹוָה

So golf claps or Jazz hands Michael, which do you prefer

Anonymous andon May 30, 2016 10:10 PM  

115. Blogger Phillip George May 30, 2016 9:10 PM
quoting a faithful Catholic posting at PrisonPlanet:

.......satan's attributes: Death, hate, oppression, chaos, destruction, lies, slavery

Satan sounds like a leftist - chaos, lies, destruction, etc.

Anonymous מִיכָאֵל‎‎ May 30, 2016 10:26 PM  

Hmm, strange. I attempted to post in Aramaic and the entire thing went all weird and failed to post.

Oh well. I suspected these modern things couldn't do that, and direct messing seems to lead to dirty EMI interference issues.

Just what part about the Resurrection of Yahoshuah, Mashiach Ha Kodesh ישוע המשיח don't you really understand.

Please, before asking these questions, what do you mean?

The Song?

The Prophecy?

The Shroud?

You're referencing very disparate strands of the Faith here. Some are sensible. Others are not. They're all from vastly different eras. And yes, honey-bun, I did just choose three time zones when you weren't around but we were.

I apologize for the lack of a direct answer, but choosing one of those three will allow us to have a rapport. Or you can pick one of the other three.

Or you could take the Dan Brown levels of knowledge amd do some real hard questions.

And, no.

Mr Phillip George.

We write it G_D

And it's the Tetragrammaton.

Want a link?

Blogger Phillip George May 30, 2016 10:34 PM  

There is no Mr in my name honeybun, pumpkin. Fail.

Blogger Phillip George May 30, 2016 10:36 PM  

Jesus is יְהֹוָה

what part of that statement of fact don't you comprehend? word 1. proper noun
word 2. Is, as in, I am, I was, I always will be
word 3. יְהֹוָה, proper noun

which bits do you find ambiguous honeybun?

Anonymous מִיכָאֵל‎‎ May 30, 2016 10:48 PM  

Oh, VD.

As I said, you're not Christians.

You'd be a bit more empathetic and loving if you were.

Hint: Phillip. Not only did I do it in the original Greek, and then Aramaic but I happen to also not have to insult you to point that out.

I asked about The Song, The Prophecy and the Shroud (and the other three).

It was a genuine question. Of Faith.

You ignored it then attacked me. Why?


Blogger Phillip George May 30, 2016 10:54 PM  

You have used definite articles, as in 'the' which denotes a perfect set.

Vox, the host, has a song right here:

I presume it is "The" song?

I quite like cashew nuts but I wouldn't suggest anyone sit down and try to listen to them. They are just "nuts", they don't actually talk to humans.

Blogger Phillip George May 30, 2016 10:58 PM

I didn't open that URL but if you want to pursue "the song" quote it in full.

Quote "the Shroud" in full.

Quote "the prophesy" in full

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 30, 2016 11:01 PM  

Is that the wisdom "under the sun?" In my experience, hardly anyone the quotes Ecclesiastes keep straight the division between human rationalizations under the sun and God's wisdom.

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 30, 2016 11:07 PM  

But then, you hit a furniture's corner with your small toe and your mind is illuminated withe the fact that, damned that hurt!
Pain has a way to scream objective reality to Buddhists.

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 30, 2016 11:10 PM  

We, followers of Jesus Christ are saints. It is its very definition.

Not of works lest anyone should boast.

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 30, 2016 11:12 PM  

Would you clarify the who impregnated Mary?

Blogger Phillip George May 30, 2016 11:15 PM  

Ecclesiastes is a perfect summary of all education, do what God tells you to.

If we would all simply agree on that then perhaps we'd re-inhabit the earth

Blogger Phillip George May 30, 2016 11:16 PM  

who impregnated Mary.
Jesus' father, isn't it obvious?

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 30, 2016 11:18 PM  

Would you clarify the who impregnated Mary?

Blogger Phillip George May 30, 2016 11:21 PM  

Jesus' father.
Haven't you read that bit?

Blogger weka May 31, 2016 2:22 AM  

@130. I would not play the AMOG game around here. It does not work. For most of us know we are sinners saved but by grace, and by Jesus' work in the cross.

Playing word games -- and yes I recognized John 1:1 in Koine Greek -- won't help.

Because we will not judge. Consider that Jesus himself said that on the last day many of those Damned will say that they preached and did mighty works of power in the name of Jesus. But they were faking.

However, Christ knows his own, and those of Christ know him.

Blogger Markku May 31, 2016 5:01 AM  

Watch out, or he goes all Sumerian on you. Then shit gets real.

Blogger Aeoli Pera May 31, 2016 5:51 AM  

It crawled from the internet. It was...wrong, somehow...

^ This inspired the beginning of my novel.

Anonymous Gecko May 31, 2016 9:53 AM  

I've been asked to help teach a discussion course next semester on why children raised in the church tend to leave it as they get older.

Already Gone: Why your kids will quit church and what you can do to stop it by Ken Ham, Britt Beemer, and Todd Hillard.

If I remember correctly, the authors miss a lot of conclusions that should be more obvious the crowd here. Even so, you may find the data useful. Some of your attendees may have also read the book anyway. One of the biggest unexpected finds was a correlation between Sunday school attendance and falling away. This shouldn't surprise those of us who understand the problems inherent in schooling.

Anonymous Bob May 31, 2016 11:09 AM  

One could build an entire sermon series on the Greek word "oikonomia", which the KJV translated "stewardship" but is the source of our term "economy." Launching from the definition ("keeping house"), we can see how God thinks of managing families, communities, and nations.

Some relevant verses:

Proverbs 13:22 - A good [man] leaveth an inheritance to his children's children: and the wealth of the sinner [is] laid up for the just.

Luke 12:42-46 - And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom [his] lord shall make ruler over his household, to give [them their] portion of meat in due season?

Luke 14:28 - For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have [sufficient] to finish [it]?

"But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God:
for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish
his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day."
Deuteronomy 8:18 (KJV)

"Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful."
1 Corinthians 4:2 (NIV)

Blogger IreneAthena May 31, 2016 8:20 PM  

Hey! The praise band finally showed up!

Anonymous Anonymous May 31, 2016 11:51 PM  

I'm not sure how one can read Deuteronomy and conclude that Scripture opposes immigration.

Deuteronomy 10

17 For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes. 18 He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the foreigner residing among you, giving them food and clothing. 19 And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were foreigners in Egypt.

Mosaic law required fairly strict assimilation (for example, foreigners could be denied full citizenship for 10 generations, and attempting to spread idolatry would be a capital crime), but clearly foreigners were permitted to live in Israel under the full protection of its laws.

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros June 01, 2016 12:36 AM  

I've been collecting passages on relevant matters. Happy to share a few.

Contra SJWs:
The moral and intellectual foundation of Social Justice is the concept that since justice is sometimes perverted in favor of the favored classes, everybody must pervert justice in the opposite direction, always.

Leviticus 19:15: "Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly."

(And the next verse is about endangering your neighbor by spreading slander; who does that remind us of?)

Exodus 23:2-3: "Do not follow the crowd in doing wrong. When you give testimony in a lawsuit, do not pervert justice by siding with the crowd, and do not show favoritism to a poor person in a lawsuit."

(And the verse before it is about spreading false reports and helping a wicked person by being a false witness; who does that remind us of?)

Contra Inclusivity:
A common Churchian refrain is that we should be inclusive and accepting to people so that we can convert them. Even if they aren't initially receptive to the Gospel, if we accept them with open arms, warts and all, surely they will see that we have the true love of Christ to offer them!

1 Corinthians 5:11: “But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.”

2 Thessalonians 3:14-15: “(14) Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, in order that they may feel ashamed. (15) Yet do not regard them as an enemy, but warn them as you would a fellow believer.”

Galatians 1: “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!”

Romans 16:17: “I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.”

And don't forget Ananias and Sapphira.

Pro Rhetorical Fire:
One of the symptoms of Nice Churchianity is a total lack of fiery zeal even where appropriate. Fire-and-brimstone comes right out of the Scriptures, as the previous section indicates; but I’ve heard many a sermon from pastors who will discuss the most vile heresies with nothing more fiery than amused disdain and an embarrassed admission that I suppose the Bible does say something like “false teachers can go to tell,” ha ha, that Paul, what a guy. I’ve also had otherwise well-meaning and well-intentioned Christians who do not sell out their theology to the modern Baals say that we always should try to be measured and reserved in our speech in order to be appealing.

Meanwhile, Matthew 23 is a whole chapter of aggressive polemical fire. Woe to you, hypocrites!

From the story in Luke 7:36-50, I extract a point about how Jesus responded to being publicly rhetorically attacked: his response to “if you were REALLY a prophet, you would know that’s a whore touching you” was “So? This whore is a better host than you are!”

In Acts, we see how the Apostles preached to hostile crowds:
Acts 2:23: “This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.”

And when brought before the Sanhedrin:
Acts 4:10: “then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed.”

Galatians 5:12, of course, has the famous New Testament polemical statement; “As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!”

Ezekiel 16 has my favorite overall Biblical polemical statement, in which God Almighty tells Israel that they’re like a filthy cheating whore who took all the fine jewelry he gave them and melted it down to make gold dildos.

(1 of 2)

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros June 01, 2016 12:37 AM  

(2 of 2)

Modern Cultural Heresies:
The Churchians sell out their churches to please the culture. Other commenters have skewered feminism better than I can.

Churchians may be tempted to go along with society and say we shouldn’t judge other cultures (although some will resist this because obviously cultures that haven’t been converted to Churchianity still need us to send missionaries to sit around for 15 years without successfully planting a church). Yet the New Testament explicitly criticizes the Gentiles as morally inferior:

Ephesians 4:17-19: “(17) So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. (18) They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. (19) Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, and they are full of greed.”

They also believe in unrestricted immigration and the welfare state because we should give everything to everybody, perverting the words of Christ to avoid being called mean names. Yet 1 Timothy 5:3-16 is clear that we should not even give free handouts to most widows. It’s a beautiful passage, which I summarize thusly:
You should not give free handouts to somebody if another person has a pre-existing duty; you are not obligated to help them shirk their God-given duties.
You should not give free handouts to somebody who is capable of supporting themselves.
And even if they can’t adequately help themselves, you should not give them free handouts unless the church has individually vetted them for good character.
The justification is that some of those who were getting free handouts were abusing the generosity; they were not truly of the faith, and used their sponsored leisure time to carry out societally destructive acts.

Gee, I wonder if a parallel could be drawn.

General Christian Autism:
There is no principle expressed in words which humans cannot pervert by seizing onto it with all the fervor that human autism can muster, and taking it as a universal principle to which all else must bend. The Sacred Word of God is no different. For example, Churchians will pervert the words of Christ, “Give to anyone who asks of you,” and “Depart from me, I never knew you, for when I was a stranger, you did not welcome me in” to say that we should have unrestricted immigration and massive welfare projects, and ignore whatever consequences may come. Now as I have mentioned, 1 Timothy is clearly in opposition to this - but from Christ we also learn a more general principle:

Mark 2:27: “Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.”

Even the Ten Commandments are shadows of the overall principle of Love God, Love Your Neighbor. And his disciples weren’t even in danger of being gang-raped to death by immigrants.

Blogger Phillip George June 01, 2016 3:03 AM  

@147 Jeers

first point Jeers is exactly how many of the roughtly 613 Mosaic Laws are Christians instructed to keep?

be careful with your answer

Blogger Viisaus June 01, 2016 6:11 AM  

"And his disciples weren’t even in danger of being gang-raped to death by immigrants."

I would note that Christ and His apostles did not live soft lives (like modern churchians do), and knew quite well enough how nasty ethnic conflicts can get. In 66-70 AD, the great Jewish rebellion against Rome exploded, and ended with 1,1 million people (most of Palestine's population) being killed or starved to death.

Anonymous Anonymous June 01, 2016 9:49 PM  

VoxDay is definitely not a Christian in the mode of the Italian merchant republics who sold sex slaves to the African and ME Muslims, sure. VoxDay is also not a Quaker or Seventh Day Adventist or Jehovah's Witness pacifist, because he's not a pacifist. Incompatible, even if the doctrine is supposed to be about Jesus of Nazareth, aka "Savior" or Christ.

From the various more energetic religious branches of Christianity, doctrine wise the Alternative Right is very close to the Mormon Christians. Generally it is easy to see. Is the church organization top down or bottom up? If top down, how many are Leftist infiltrated from seminary to be child rapists and or subversive agents, such as the Catholics got? If bottom up, are they communist/socialist and not Christian?

It is also easy to tell by the gay marriage thing. JWitnesses will have issues tackling Islamic jihadists, though.

Also VoxDay's militarism reminds me of the Knights Hospitalers or the Knights Templars. They provided content or services, and thus got money from pilgrims as well as status. The Muslims did not take the Christian knight orders lightly at all. Nor were the Armenians soft from centuries of being raided for sex slaves by their Muslim neighbors, until the Turkish Empire wiped out many of the Armenians. Somebody had to do it, those Christians just refused to Convert and Obey. Those are the most annoying followers of Jesus. The ones that can't be bribed or threatened. The good ones are in the Catholic Church like the Leftist Pope. They are "reasonable".

The problem with the Bible is that the two mainline Christian branches, the Roman Catholics and the Orthodox Christians, were state religions. The Bible was translated to reinforce the power of the state. It had little to nothing to do with teaching people to be saints with the power to Resist the World or become an enemy of the world. If you became an enemy of even your local lord or province, you'd get executed. Just like the 40 martyrs froze to death when the Legions told them to convert from Christianity and deny the Christ.

Without ways to double check the power hungry effects of human wording and translations, like using the Dead Sea Scrolls, it's very difficult to piece the veil back to the first century AD. The time of the only true Christians, in the Middle East. The historical events can be checked, and a lot of wisdom and knowledge is in there. Such as why Judea was renamed to Palestine in Emperor Hadrian's time. That should put it after the 3 Jewish rebellions, after 70 AD at least.

Oh btw, the list of interesting Mormon Christians I researched includes S Meyers, Harry Reid, and a couple of authors like CS Lewis. Remember what happened to Reid's face? Heh. Some accident there. It's like a divine punishment, a data point similar to some other things I've read about in relation to the Church of Latter Day Saints. Too bad WMD can't wipe out all evils in the US without cracking the continent. That'd be something to see, for DC at least. All 93% that voted in their Lightbringer, Next Messiah, Hussein, who will Calm the Oceans and appease Gaia's global warming wrath.

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros June 03, 2016 10:21 AM  

Missed one!
Churchians tend to be pathologically afraid of worldly things like profanity - as a teen, one of my friends voiced his concerns about the movie "Napoleon Dynamite" because the main character says "Gosh" a lot, and "gosh" is a modified way of saying "God."

Colossians 2:20-23: "(20) Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: (21) “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? (22) These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. (23) Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence."

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