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Thursday, May 05, 2016

#Trump2016 vs #NeverTrump

A short debate on Donald Trump's victorious campaign for the Republican nomination and the nature of conservatism between me and Louise Mensch of Heat Street:
LM: This is obviously a sad day for me and a terrific day for you as Donald Trump is crowned the presumptive nominee by the GOP establishment. Last night, while we were talking with each other, we were discussing the nature of conservatism.

To me, my duty as a conservative is to oppose Donald Trump because he’s not a conservative. I said that, to me, conservatism stands for equality of opportunity. You said in your view, it never had done. How do you define conservatism?

VD: I define conservatism as an attitude more than a coherent ideology. If you look at the history of conservatism, which you as a British individual will be aware, it really is something different to the ideas that underlie the British Conservative Party or the Tory Party. Russell Kirk attempted to turn that inherited tradition into a more coherent ideology, and he came up with the 10 foundational points of what he terms conservatism. So it’s less an ideology than an attitude – and a relative posture.

 Equality of opportunity is merely something that fits that attitude more than it is a founding point of the ideology, in the way that the “labor theory of value” is something that underlies the ideology of socialism.

LM You think that leftism is ideological, but conservatism is only an attitude?

VD: To a certain extent. Socialism is clearly a distinctive set of ideologies. There are of course different socialisms, from Fabianism to Marxism. Progressivism – today’s liberalism – is also a coherent ideology. Conservatism is intrinsically a reaction to other ideologies rather than an ideology of its own.

LM: You don’t think Conservatism stands for anything apart from opposing Liberalism, to use that umbrella term for the left?

VD: Exactly correct. There’s a common saying that today’s conservative is yesterday’s liberal. Conservatism, if we look at the positions that it holds, is usually 20-25 years behind what yesterday’s liberals were. Today, John F. Kennedy would be regarded not only as a Republican – but one who was a little bit to the right.

LM: To me, that seems defeatist for a guy that I see, though I may differ with you on many things, at the very least as an alpha male go-getter. You’re not behind any particular set of principles. You just want to oppose somebody else! Doesn’t that put all the power in their hands?

VD: It does, but it’s not defeatist for me because, as I have repeatedly told people for well over a decade, I am not a conservative. I am an extremist and I’m a radical. That’s why I don’t identify with this conservatism that never conserves anything, that goes from one noble defeat to the next, and has completely failed to conserve anything, even the United States of America.
Read the whole thing there. It was an oral debate, not a written one, but I think I managed to avoid tripping over my convoluted sentence structures for the most part. The bet was funny; I don't think she was quite expecting THAT!

Labels: , ,

181 Comments:

OpenID b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440 May 05, 2016 12:43 PM  

On the other hand, Trump has committed to taking banker money for the General. I expected that since it probably would have cost him 50% of his networth to run (I don't buy for a second he is worth more than $4 billion and probably closer to 2.5).

But it does mean the Fed is out of the question, and the border thing is going to get negotiated, but at least he is starting from a much better position at the bargaining table.

Will Best

Anonymous Viking May 05, 2016 12:45 PM  

I am starting to see the term 'Uniparty' tossed about. I think your concept of the Bi-factional Ruling Party is spreading.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling May 05, 2016 12:47 PM  

@1 b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440:

Trump's wealth certainly isn't liquid enough for him to pay for the campaign directly out of his pocket, so one way or another other entities will be involved.

Blogger Student in Blue May 05, 2016 12:49 PM  

Vox: You’re saying that conservatism is the truly progressive movement that is on the right side of history, whereas the left is essentially regressive and on the wrong side of history?

LM: Yes, sir.


Cannot facepalm any harder.

Anonymous Faceless May 05, 2016 12:52 PM  

Christians are the real feminists!
Conservatives are the real progressives!
Capitalists are the real communists!
Elitists are the real egalitarians!
War is the real peace!

Blogger Mark May 05, 2016 12:53 PM  

@3 So he was lying all along and you swallowed him anyway.

Anonymous Bagger Vance May 05, 2016 12:54 PM  

" I’m going to admit in this interview, I’m going to come out of the closet and admit that I’m a huge fan of the Gor novels by John Norman."

i think i'm in love!

Anonymous Steve May 05, 2016 12:55 PM  

To me, my duty as a conservative is to oppose Donald Trump because he’s not a conservative.

When did Louise become American?

Blogger slarrow May 05, 2016 12:55 PM  

So she thinks Conservatism isn't Marxist because of the slogan but entirely misses the trap in "right side of history", apparently not knowing that Marxism is a descendant of Hegelianism? Plus, she actually says, "I prefer actors to commentators, so I don’t really care what some guy said in some book"?

Yeah, what exactly is she conserving, anyway?

Blogger Cicatrizatic May 05, 2016 12:56 PM  

This is a good encapsulation of the naive and intellectually impoverished worldview that most conservatives have these days.

Blogger tridekka May 05, 2016 12:57 PM  

@9 Conservation of progressive momentum. Can't let that pendulum swing back early in the cycle.

Blogger VD May 05, 2016 12:57 PM  

When did Louise become American?

Probably when she married an American and moved to New York.

Blogger Panzerdude May 05, 2016 12:58 PM  

Wish you would have mentioned that "conservative" Republicans told the Tea Party to vote for McCain and Romney, even if they had to hold their respective noses, in order to keep the Democrats out.

Now, when asked to do what they asked others to do, they are preemptively throwing in the towel.

Don't call it hypocrisy, call it "coming out of the closet". Are these people really "conservative" or as the interviewer said, just the "right" kind of progressives...

Blogger Blackburn #0040 May 05, 2016 12:59 PM  

I thought Chuck Tingle books were shorter than that.

Anonymous Steve May 05, 2016 1:02 PM  

Probably when she married an American and moved to New York.

Bloody immigrants.

Anonymous Faceless May 05, 2016 1:02 PM  

@Mark

Trump said before Super Tuesday that he intended to accept money in the general election. He self-funded his primary run and achieved the goal there. He said this when he started using the line in the February debates: "I am not given credit that I'm self-funding".

The Twitchification of the #NeverTrump crowd knows no bounds: A man worth $10 Billion in business stock is not going to be able to liquidate that to raise the $1+ Billion needed for the general election. However, as is apparent to anyone - whether it's Soros (Kasich), Koch, Wilkes, Zuckerberg - all the billionaires were playing in the primary process because it's guaranteed to be Hillary on the other side, and the primary process was the time that allegiances were up for sale.

This is like the idiocy from you in the sour grapes crowd that a statement, "Look, I like debt; I am the king of debt; but we have way too much debt" can mean he's saying he wants to increase the national debt. The Matt Walshes of the world sure giggled about that one, failing to understand even the low-level of nuance in a sentence, "As a man who liked to use debt, this is even too much for me."

Blogger VFM #407 May 05, 2016 1:02 PM  

So what I'm taking from this is that Louise Mensch is more of a mensch than Matt Walsh and she has bigger balls.

Blogger Nate May 05, 2016 1:03 PM  

wait wait...

Conservative because Conservative is the real progressive? ***gag***

Blogger tublecane May 05, 2016 1:05 PM  

"that seems defeatist"

What is the difference between a defeatist and a non-defeatist conservative? Both get defeated.

Blogger VFM #7634 May 05, 2016 1:06 PM  

Here's an eyebrow-raising something to beat the NeverTrumpers over the head with:

Link

Anonymous Steve May 05, 2016 1:08 PM  

Nate - Conservative because Conservative is the real progressive? ***gag***

This is the sad state of the British Cuckservative Party Louise was an elected representative of.

We have a Prime Minister who said, just before the recent Brussels mass murder, "Islam is a religion of peace!". And who fantasises about how wonderful it would be for us to be governed by a South Asian.

Anonymous old coyote May 05, 2016 1:09 PM  

The melting cuckfaces are awesome to behold in their heat and rage; Cthulhu reaches out and tentacles their skulls into the frozen outer darkness of Deomoncrat slimepools... at last we recognize their bones for what they really were.

Blogger Nate May 05, 2016 1:12 PM  

I don't see why we should bother trying to equate american left and right and euro left and right... or american conservative and euro conservative.

Blogger The Other Robot May 05, 2016 1:12 PM  

Fully converged

Now, ESPN is simply irrelevant.

Blogger Cicatrizatic May 05, 2016 1:14 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Steve May 05, 2016 1:15 PM  

Indeed, the most notable legislation passed by the "Conservative" government since 2010 was when, without warning, they imposed homosexual marriage on the UK.

Which Louise Mensch fully supported.

With "conservatives" like these...

Blogger Nate May 05, 2016 1:16 PM  

"Now, ESPN is simply irrelevant."

ESPN has never not been fully converged.

Blogger CM May 05, 2016 1:17 PM  

I am surprised (not really) that the constitution didn't come up ONCE.

I thought we were supposed to be conserving a small government. When did this change? I'm not so old to be seeing a complete shift in "conservative" thought like this, am I?

Anonymous Steve May 05, 2016 1:17 PM  

I don't see why we should bother trying to equate american left and right and euro left and right... or american conservative and euro conservative.

Our "conservatives" are more like Hillary Clinton than they are anyone in the Republican party.

Blogger YIH May 05, 2016 1:24 PM  

Equality of opportunity has been our lodestar on a temporal scale – the GOP is the party of Lincoln; Lincoln freed the slaves. It’s the party of Hamilton, who was for emancipation. It’s the party of Harriet Tubman.
Little Benny said it best.

Anonymous VFM #9617 May 05, 2016 1:24 PM  

That is what passes for a conservative? That? Really? This is one of the 30% of the Jews that voted Republican last time? What kind of creature is this?

Her irrational drivel hurt my brain.

Anonymous mark in orlando May 05, 2016 1:25 PM  

to 24 the other robot
it is tough watching anything on ESPN, on a baseball show you
will have 2 former All-Star players along with a woman who played softball, on a football show 2 or 3 former Pro-Bowlers with a woman who wasn't good looking enough to be in the Lingerie Bowl, but of course these women's opinions are taken just as seriously as if they were former stars, sports shows are becoming unwatchable and the events themselves are quickly trending in that direction

Blogger Josh May 05, 2016 1:27 PM  

That was a disaster. She can't give any better argument for conservatism than "but muh feelz?"

Blogger Stilicho May 05, 2016 1:28 PM  

She loses all credibility when she claims Trump is the most pro-immigration candidate the GOP has ever put forward. She cannot be unaware of George W. Bush or John McAmnesty.

Question: now that the conservative label doesn't work (if it ever really did more than provide a temporary tent), how would you categorize a political philosophy based up individual liberty, patriotism/nationalism, and inalienable God-given rights? In the past you've categorized your own position as Christian libertarian or Christian nationalist. How would you define the political philosophy?

Anonymous ? May 05, 2016 1:28 PM  

Is she a Brit who lives in the USA or a Brit who lives in the UK?

If the former... why does she care so much about the US election?

Anonymous ? May 05, 2016 1:29 PM  

Argh, if the LATTER.

Anonymous Joo kidding? May 05, 2016 1:29 PM  

The democrats are about to elect as president, because she is going to be the president, a woman that speaks to Goldman-Sachs regularly and takes money for it. As a conservative, I say more power to her elbow. You go get that money girl. I like to see an entrepreneur. I can understand the Democrats do not like to see it, but I firmly believe that it is the free market that drives progress because I’m a conservative and I don’t think we can have a free market without equality of opportunity.

Blogger Dexter May 05, 2016 1:31 PM  

She can't give any better argument for conservatism than "but muh feelz?"

We Are The Real Progressives

Yeah, sounds about as effective as Democrats Are the Real Racists.

Let the enemy define "virtue" and then argue about who best reflects those "virtues". Awesome strategy!

Blogger Hosswire May 05, 2016 1:33 PM  

She values equality of opportunity.

Yet she welcomes the importation of ever more tribalistic foreigners. Who see the world almost purely in terms of improving their tribe's position at the expense of other tribes.

Something does not compute.

Anonymous VFM #6036 May 05, 2016 1:33 PM  

Oh yeah, that's what conservatives were saying. "Not Trump! He's MORE globalist than W!"

I'd like to think these people are naive. I can't anymore.

The Conservative Movement basically catches all the old Democrats who have watched the Party progress beyond the days when they were first getting laid.

Er, I mean "Democrats who have been struck (temporarily) by 'Reality.'"

Seriously, they aren't even 10 years behind the Democrats anymore.

Feminist and anti-racist. Good for you, dear. Now show me on the doll where MLK touched your dreams.

Blogger YIH May 05, 2016 1:34 PM  

Whoa. Okay, well, you know what, I’m a big fan. I’m going to admit in this interview, I’m going to come out of the closet and admit that I’m a huge fan of the Gor novels by John Norman.
Wow. Just wow.
[ED link, NSFW, yadda, yadda]

Blogger Dexter May 05, 2016 1:34 PM  

a woman that speaks to Goldman-Sachs regularly and takes money for it. As a conservative, I say more power to her elbow. You go get that money girl. I like to see an entrepreneur.

"Entrepreneurship is the process of designing, launching, and running a new business" -- yup, that exactly describes what Hillary did in order to get G-S money.

I hope that someday I can milk my political connections for big bucks so I can be called an "entrepreneur" too.

Blogger Hosswire May 05, 2016 1:35 PM  

She sees Hillary Clinton as an "entrepreneur"?

Blogger Josh May 05, 2016 1:36 PM  

Meanwhile, this is Trump's new finance guy:

Overall, Mnuchin has given more than $125,000 since 1998 to federal candidates and committees that disclose their donors, according to a review of Federal Election Commission reports.

Beyond his contributions, Mnuchin's past employers don't fall in line with Trump's rhetoric on the campaign trail. Mnuchin is a former Goldman Sachs partner and worked for liberal mega-donor George Soros's hedge fund.

He also contributed to a group called America Coming Together, which was largely funded by Soros and unions.

Blogger CM May 05, 2016 1:37 PM  

How is Hillary moderate? How can any pro-life person denegrate Trump because of a loosely held position but vote for the stalwart, vocal champion of unrestricted, late-term abortion?

How is "Build a Wall!" more immigration friendly than amnesty, decreased border security and expansion of H1B visas? Even that NumbersUSA site rates Trump an A- on Immigration policy. I refuse to believe Bush was an A+. Though I can't understand how Cruz was an A+.

All her issues with Trump are based on some kind of unsupported claim of Racism and Sexism that doesn't bear out when you scrutinize his life. Philanderer, globalist, soft on immigration, non-christian, bully. Fine. A case could be made on all those counts. But those weren't her issues. Her complaints were racist and sexist which Hillary CLEARLY is not *cough cough choke i'm dying here*.

The hypocrisy among these people just makes me more and more annoyed.

Anonymous VFM #7916 May 05, 2016 1:43 PM  

"Feminist Conservative"

"that conservatism is progressive, absolutely, because we believe in the free market. We want open competition and we want to support the weakest who really need it."

Contradiction, thy name is woman.

This is why women ruin everything, and have ultimately destroyed every civilization that allowed them to run rampant.

Blogger Teri May 05, 2016 1:44 PM  

Not crazy about Trump's new money guy, but don't know how you find one that isn't tainted by Goldman-Sachs. This guy did rescue a bank, and I expect them to run ads about how heartlessly he threw people out of the houses they foreclosed on.

Blogger Teri May 05, 2016 1:45 PM  

Not crazy about Trump's new money guy, but don't know how you find one that isn't tainted by Goldman-Sachs. This guy did rescue a bank, and I expect them to run ads about how heartlessly he threw people out of the houses they foreclosed on.

Anonymous fop May 05, 2016 1:52 PM  

Not crazy about Trump's new money guy, but don't know how you find one that isn't tainted by Goldman-Sachs.

How about a venture capitalist instead of a bloodsucking vampire squid?

Anonymous VFM #6036 May 05, 2016 1:53 PM  

Gotta pay for that wall somehow, Josh. What was Trump gonna do, hire Cruz's wife?

Blogger Roy Lofquist May 05, 2016 1:57 PM  

Vox mentioned Russell Kirk's Ten Principles. This brief essay, found here:

http://www.kirkcenter.org/index.php/detail/ten-conservative-principles/

is a concise, insightful exposition of what constitutes a civil society.

Anonymous VFM #6036 May 05, 2016 1:57 PM  

Goldman Sachs is a venture capitalist, fop. A damn big one.

Anonymous Gecko May 05, 2016 2:02 PM  

Well, the United States seems to be doing okay from where I’m sitting.

59 million.

Blogger tz May 05, 2016 2:05 PM  

Goldman Sachs is a venture capitalist, fop. A damn big one.
No, vampire (squid) capitalist.
Oh, and hiring Heidi would be sweet irony.

Anonymous VFM #6036 May 05, 2016 2:09 PM  

20 unicorns in 3 years is a pretty big VC, no matter how you slice it.

Blogger Nate May 05, 2016 2:12 PM  

"Gotta pay for that wall somehow, Josh. What was Trump gonna do, hire Cruz's wife?"

No. instead he hired her Boss's Boss's Boss's Boss.

Anonymous DT May 05, 2016 2:13 PM  

"...he's not a conservative."
"I'm a conservative feminist."

WTF am I reading???

Also: "...conservatism stands for equality of opportunity."

A) When has Trump said anything against this?

B) If the answer has anything to do with his anti-immigration policies, then someone needs to explain to me why I should pay taxes when I could leave, denounce my U.S. citizenship, come back as an illegal, and still enjoy equality of opportunity to everything America offers.

Blogger Nate May 05, 2016 2:17 PM  

There is no way this finance guy looks good for anyone. just being objective here... either

1) Trump is hiring a great finance guy to just do finance. Which sounds fine on the surface but in reality shows that Trump is still living in the past when you separated politics from profession. We're over that now. And if he is making that mistake... he is living his regime open to entryism in a bad way.

Or

2) Trump is full of crap about all this right wing nationalist stuff and he is just saying whatever he needs to say to win the election and the people he's hiring are evidence of the coming backstab.

Now there may other explanations. I'm very interested in hearing what Trump supporters think of this guy.

Anonymous DT May 05, 2016 2:17 PM  

...which Hillary CLEARLY is not *cough cough choke i'm dying here*.

I think Hillary is *cough cough choke i'm dying here.* Which is yet another reason why the Lady of Concussions should not be president.

Blogger Arthur Isaac May 05, 2016 2:17 PM  

Some time ago I identified the need for Christians to target the Churchians for destruction. They will be eaten by feminists anyway, why not facilitate the process? ("Into the Maw of the Patriarchy").

We need to put down the "conservative" movement in the same way. It's suffering has continued for far too long.

Blogger praetorian May 05, 2016 2:18 PM  

Conservatives are the real progressives?

You have to go back. Please return to kitchen and allow men to rebuild the work of centuries, which you have thrown away for sentimental qualms.

Blogger Arthur Isaac May 05, 2016 2:20 PM  

Matriarchy even....can't even pimp my own title....

Blogger Student in Blue May 05, 2016 2:21 PM  

@Nate
1) Trump is hiring a great finance guy to just do finance. Which sounds fine on the surface but in reality shows that Trump is still living in the past when you separated politics from profession. We're over that now. And if he is making that mistake... he is living his regime open to entryism in a bad way.

Second act of Reagan?

Blogger Lovekraft May 05, 2016 2:21 PM  

Louise Mensch couldn't give two sh!ts about the readership of this blog, and should be treated as someone who takes delight in hearing about our struggles.

Blogger Lovekraft May 05, 2016 2:23 PM  

By this I mean the days of 2nd wave feminists slinking into the background saying "we meant well!!!" while their third-wave spawn spread hate are over.

We weren't useful to them when things were going good, and now that things are starting to change, we should make it loud and clear that we aren't going to WILLFULLY lift a finger to help them and their hordes of cats.

Anonymous natefart May 05, 2016 2:25 PM  

No way Trump can handle bankers. No way. When has the guy ever bent bankers over to his will? Has Trump ever put the bankers on his leash? My point is made.

Anonymous polyhedron May 05, 2016 2:27 PM  

I suppose we should ignore Mensch's opinion as mere commentating. Yet, we know from the previous interview, by public expression commentating becomes act, making Louise an actor and thus worthy of consideration. Unclear.

Also interesting to learn that we've avoided WWIII because we are on average less sexist and racist now. Oh, and for the same reason science is really accelerating today compared against the sluggish fumbling of the 20th century. We have iPhones, after all.

Anonymous muh conservatism May 05, 2016 2:28 PM  

Mulder's Shroom Ride ‏@proteinwisdom 43s43 seconds ago
Mulder's Shroom Ride Retweeted Supreme Dark Lord
I'm all cucky that way, remember? Of course, you know that's horseshit but you'll put it out there dishonestly.
https://twitter.com/proteinwisdom

Blogger VD May 05, 2016 2:29 PM  

Be civil to the people with whom I am engaging. You are certainly free to disagree, as I obviously do, but there is no need for either disrespect or incivility in the comments here, much less vulgarity.

Blogger pyrrhus May 05, 2016 2:29 PM  

The USA is in need of a complete redo back to the principles of Calvin Coolidge, if not Grover Cleveland....Trump is the only place we can start, as the Republican "conservatives" conserve nothing, and even pile on those who stand for principle.

Blogger Lovekraft May 05, 2016 2:34 PM  

Responding to the comments about Trump getting financial support from a Goldman-Sachs rep, I will just say: Hillery, Legacy Media, the sjw hordes, BLM and La Raze are going to be throwing a lot more at us than something so inane as this.

Of course, the system is beyond repair and Trump will have to play ball no matter what. But this is the stage we are at. Support Him like the dread ilk you claim to be, instead of wimping out when things get really how.

Blogger Sheila4g May 05, 2016 2:35 PM  

Louise says she's a Catholic; you say she married an American and moved to NY and I note her last name appears Jewish. Unless/until corrected, I will presume she married a NY Jew and therefore find her lack of logical coherence and insistence on conservatism = Lincoln and feminism and open borders to be entirely predictable.

@59 Nate: A lot of things I'm seeing/hearing re Trump lately have made me extremely ill at ease. It could merely be the GOPe trying to take control of his campaign and/or image now that he's the presumptive nominee, or it could be his genuine convictions coming to the fore. If the former, I would expect to see a lot more conflicting info, like his foreign policy speech (which, while containing too much "Go Israel!" crap, was also very positive re minding our own business and taking care of one's own house first). If the latter, I suppose we'll know soon enough - and I, at least, will withdraw my support from him.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper May 05, 2016 2:37 PM  

A feminist Conservative Jew (probably) who likes Gor novels. Hmm.

Anonymous Opus May 05, 2016 2:40 PM  

I trust that when and if Trump takes office that those four hundred thousand British people who signed a petition to ban him for Britain will be duly banned from visiting your American shores. For me, Mensch is a local girl; she has benefited from being female, good-looking and is clearly someone who has ridden her luck. She is not American and therefore it is impertinent of her to voice opinion as to your election.

OpenID aew51183 May 05, 2016 2:43 PM  

Unless this guy is stamping his feet, shaking his rattle, and claiming he'll vote for clinton, he's not actually #NeverTrump.

Anonymous Opus May 05, 2016 2:44 PM  

@Sheila4g

Whether Mensch is or is not Jewish, she did indeed attend a (local) school run by Roman Catholics - but then they will take anyone - and it is not by-the-way one of the better schools in the area so luck has been on her side.

Anonymous Menschenfleisch May 05, 2016 2:45 PM  

Be civil to the people with whom I am engaging. You are certainly free to disagree, as I obviously do, but there is no need for either disrespect or incivility in the comments here, much less vulgarity.

Do you think you can save her? Why are you helping her to create her brand heatstreet? Do you think she is an ally?

I think promoting her is more dangerous than promoting Ben Shapiro. You get some decent stuff but a lot of horrors.

Anonymous Timmy4 May 05, 2016 2:49 PM  

THIS IS WHO YOU ARE... ARE YOU ASHAMED YET?
http://www.newyorker.com/news/benjamin-wallace-wells/is-the-alt-right-for-real

"The alt-right often seems to be testing the strength of the speech taboos that revolve around conventional politics—of what can be said, and how directly. Can you insist that science supports racial differences in intelligence? Can you threaten rape? Can you Photoshop an image of a Jewish reporter who has written critically about the Trumps so that she appears to be in a concentration camp? How far can you go? It is easy to notice the flood of Nazi imagery that has been tweeted from anonymous accounts at reporters, and harder to determine how many people are sending these images. Even the most careful reporting into the less crude edges of the movement usually has to resort to calling the alt-right’s influential voices by their message-board monikers (CisWhiteMaelstrom, JCM267) rather than by their real names."

Blogger Gunnar von Cowtown May 05, 2016 2:56 PM  

@VD,

I'm just gonna assume you know exactly what you're doing and have some genius tactical reason for pulling your punches.

Anonymous VFM #6306 May 05, 2016 2:58 PM  

It does not matter if Trump is co-opted. It never has. You all are reading tea leaves when the one and only measure of success or failure is basic:

Hillary: No Wall No Way
Trump: Maybe Wall, Maybe Not

Mensch hayes the wall and thus loves Hillary. Guarantee no wall, guarantee refugeepalooza.

Trump wants a wall and may pull it off.

It really is that simple. It doesn't matter if he builds the wall with aborted baby skulls, pays for it with Goldman Sachs stolen gold, and installs transgender rape latrines in its Museum and Visitor Center.

If he builds the wall: success.

If not: failure.

That's it. Conservatives hate the wall because it fails to conserve the dwindling energy of what used to be America. Instead the wall is a preservation, a reservation, and you can not simultaneously conserve and preserve a resource.

Preservation is conservation's enemy.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents May 05, 2016 3:02 PM  

A feminist Conservative Jew (probably) who likes Gor novels. Hmm.

She says in the interview she’s Catholic, for what that’s worth.

Yes, she likes Robert E. Howard’s novels, all full of strong, manly men, and she’s all in favor of more immigration of…what?

Suppose that instead of a million dark, swarthy, manly men aged 18 - 30, the “refugees” were pretty, blonde, blue eyed eastern Europeans?

Anyone care to bet she’d find that to be very, very different?

Anonymous VFM #9617 May 05, 2016 3:03 PM  

Timmah,

you might just want to check the credibility of your sources a bit more, and by that I don't just mean the New Yorker (but come on..), but their source, Colin Lokey.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-04-29/full-story-behind-bloombergs-attempt-unmask-zero-hedge

But hey, keep up the point and shriek, gotta virtue signal for the other rabbits, eh?

Anonymous Mike May 05, 2016 3:04 PM  

AG ‏@AG_Conservative
You're going to embarrass yourself on an almost daily basis. And for what? A landslide loss. Do you have any self-respect? #NeverTrump

real or parody account? https://twitter.com/AG_Conservative

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents May 05, 2016 3:11 PM  

A feminist Conservative Jew (probably) who likes Gor novels. Hmm.

She says in the interview she’s Catholic, for what that’s worth. Also a conservative feminist. Pretty standard set of positions.

Yes, she likes Robert E. Howard’s novels, all full of strong, manly men, and she’s all in favor of more immigration of…what?

Suppose that instead of a million dark, swarthy, manly men aged 18 - 30, the “refugees” were pretty, blonde, blue eyed eastern Europeans?

Anyone care to bet she’d find that to be very, very different?

Anonymous rubberducky May 05, 2016 3:11 PM  

I'm very unhappy with this inability of conservatives to define what conservatism actually is. They will wax rhapsodic about its greatness and power, but they can't put their finger on what it is exactly. The whole debate about who is a "true conservative" then, as we saw in spades during the US presidential primary, comes down to what, really? You can't define what it is!

I am certain, however, that if a movement popped up and declared itself simple, "Not Left", then we would be better off.

All you have to do is reflexively oppose whatever the Left wants. That's it. They want to try all this social experimentation? Bring back traditional social elements. They want to have open borders? Close them. They want to fight global warming? Expand coal production. They want stricter gun laws? Push national right to carry.

And so on. I bet you the results would be far, far better than what conservatives have so far wrought.

Anonymous VFM #6306 May 05, 2016 3:17 PM  

The Conservative Movement is slow hippies. If you move too fast, you are Progressive. If you preserve something or move too slowly you are "no true Conservative."

It is actually accurate, just not for the ideological reason true Hillary supporting, annesty backing, welfare okaying conservatives think.

They think they are being principled.

Anonymous Bobby Farr May 05, 2016 3:19 PM  

Before this election I wouldn't have guessed that the thing conservatives hate most is conservatism

Blogger Nate May 05, 2016 3:29 PM  

"Second act of Reagan?"

I think that is a rational fear. yes.

Blogger LP9 Forever Solidified in Gold! Rin Integra S.I.G. May 05, 2016 3:33 PM  

Absolute defiance to wrongheaded thinking, fantastic, its just another example of a gen x genius as in Vox Day.

Buy the books!! Free your mind, upgrade your rationale, walk into the unknown to make it known! Come on, dear lurkers...

https://www.amazon.com/Cuckservative-How-Conservatives-Betrayed-America-ebook/dp/B018ZHHA52/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1462476678&sr=8-2-fkmr1&keywords=cuck+vox+day

http://www.amazon.com/SJWs-Always-Lie-Taking-Thought/dp/9527065682/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1462476605&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=cuckservatism+vox+day

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https://www.amazon.com/Existence-Gods-Vox-Day-ebook/dp/B01D64CP6S?ie=UTF8&keywords=cuckservatism%20vox%20day&qid=1462476605&ref_=sr_1_fkmr0_3&sr=8-3-fkmr0

Blogger Jimmy Glover May 05, 2016 3:38 PM  

"To me, my duty as a conservative is to oppose Donald Trump because he’s not a conservative. "

By voting for Hillary? I am lost as to the thought process here. Trump is not conservative, so she is voting for another not conservative?

Would she have voted for Jeb!? Kasich? Christy? They are not conservative. And neither was George Bush. I'm with VD on this. Conservatism today is equal to the GOP as a party.

Blogger Nate May 05, 2016 3:43 PM  

"Would she have voted for Jeb!? Kasich? Christy? They are not conservative. And neither was George Bush. I'm with VD on this. Conservatism today is equal to the GOP as a party."

given her definition of conservative she would likely say Jeb and Christy and Kasich are all conservatives... and Rand Paul isn't.

Blogger Nate May 05, 2016 3:44 PM  

Her definition of conservatism certainly sheds some light on the whole conflict with guys like Ted Cruz and Rand Paul and Ron Paul... and even Reagan.

These guys are limited government types that have a completely different ideology than the GOPe... and yet both are calling themselves Conservative.

Blogger LP9 Forever Solidified in Gold! Rin Integra S.I.G. May 05, 2016 3:44 PM  

No to Hillary Elizi Warren, No to Huma, No to Nil Bill and No Bernie, No to Chelsea.

Trump, please VP your sons and daughter, forget K of Ohio, forget Rubio and Cruz, all 3 are not for you. No to Goldman too.

No.

Blogger bob k. mando May 05, 2016 3:47 PM  

73. A.B. Prosper May 05, 2016 2:37 PM
A feminist Conservative Jew (probably) who likes Gor novels. Hmm.



she's not Jewish, she just married one. although, given that her first husband was Italian, it's pretty clear she's biased against her own culture.

just one more layer of contradiction. i particularly like the "Feminist Gor fan" layer of cognitive dissonance.

Blogger Were-Puppy May 05, 2016 3:51 PM  

@58 Nate
Now there may other explanations. I'm very interested in hearing what Trump supporters think of this guy.
---

Trump should have attempted is to open up for campaign donations. That way we could all see how solid his support is if he took in campaign donations.

I don't know how a super Trumpster will look at this.
To me, Golden Sacks != good.

I don't know a lot of details on the banksters. But in the world of Insurance you got a similar thing once you start digging into the reinsurers and all that. There are some yuuuge giants that everyone ends up attached to in some way. hell, they probably use the banksters to invest their reserves.

Blogger Nate May 05, 2016 3:56 PM  

" There are some yuuuge giants that everyone ends up attached to in some way. hell, they probably use the banksters to invest their reserves."

this cat was a partner at Goldman... so... we're talking about a Prince of Darkness from On High here.

Blogger Were-Puppy May 05, 2016 4:07 PM  

Timmy4

A male using a hyphenated last name is just gay

Blogger John Wright May 05, 2016 4:13 PM  

"I'm very unhappy with this inability of conservatives to define what conservatism actually is."

Because no one asked me.

The word itself is misleading, because, of course I am a conservative when and only when the principles I support currently are in force and currently are being eroded. But it is not the fact that they are being eroded that makes me want to conserve them, but, rather, the fact that they are good principles.

Conservatism is summed up in seven ideas. They are, in order: 1. truth, 2. virtue, 3. beauty, 4. reason, 5. romance, 6. liberty, 7. salvation.

These are specific contradictions of seven anti-ideas promoted by the Left (I say 'promoted' not 'believed' for no man can believe in them, any more than he can believe in a five-sided triangle)


1. Solipsism — the paradox that asserts that truth is personal, hence optional: “It is not true that truth is true.”
2. Relativism — the paradox that asserts that virtue is subjective, situational, relative: “It is wrong for you to judge right and wrong.”
3. Subjectivism — the paradox that asserts that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. As if putting a urinal in an Art Museum, and betraying the standard somehow proves the standard wrong, not the betrayal.
4. Irrationalism — the paradox that asserts reason is untrustworthy. Each man’s reason is too biased by upbringing, class self interest, sex, race, and background such that no one, aside from members of a given race and sex and victim group, can be expected to understand or advise other members of the victim group. Of course, reaching this conclusion from that premise is itself an act of reasoning, requiring the reasoner to trust his reason, despite the background and race and sex of the reasoner.
5. Pervertarianism — the paradox that asserts it to be licit to seek the gratifications of sexual union of the reproductive act without the union, without the reproduction, and, in the case of sodomites, without the act. The same insane paradox asserts that females should be feminists rather than feminine; and that sexual predation is more romantic than romance.
6. Totalitarianism — the paradox that asserts that freedom is slavery, war is peace, ignorance is strength. The Constitution is a living, breathing document, ergo it must be smothered and killed.
7. Nihilism — the paradox of that the meaning of life is that it has no innate meaning.

Politically, the original US constitution, which was meant for a loose federation of sovereign states and a minimal central government, was the best guarantee of continued peace and liberty, and therefore, since that state of affairs rested in our past, we should be reactionary return to it. If that state of affairs rested not in our past but only in the future, we should be radical, overthrow the current social order, and adopt it.

That said, I will add one other element to the definition of conservative: we believe changes should be gradual and organic to the social order, because the danger from social disorder is grave and lasting, and ergo such changes must be made slowly, cautiously, thoughtfully. Never tear down a fence until you find out for what reason it was first erected.

Blogger Chiva May 05, 2016 4:15 PM  

Is this the same Louise Mensch that tweeted "As a conservative, i would always rather lose to a democrat, than support a racist and sexist with my party's nametag. #NeverTrump"?

Anonymous johnc May 05, 2016 4:16 PM  

2) Trump is full of crap about all this right wing nationalist stuff and he is just saying whatever he needs to say to win the election and the people he's hiring are evidence of the coming backstab.

That's by far the more likely scenario. Anybody who has been paying attention since, say, the debates and is honest with himself can see the obvious.

Like those Catholic bloggers who, early on, always defended Pope Francis, those who have put faith in Trump as anything other than a con-artist are going to end up losing a lot of credibility.

Anonymous Smile Of The Shadow May 05, 2016 4:18 PM  

Brilliant. I'm sure a lot of right would balk at calling conservatism "reactionary" and the left would smirk in gloat at that, but as usual, people would be missing the point. This is almost EXACTLY what Barry Goldwater said in his very classic and poignant Conscious of a Conservative. Conservatism is fighting a losing battle, but there's nothing wrong with that, and in fact, if no one did it, we'd be sunk.

Anonymous VFM #6306 May 05, 2016 4:21 PM  

Answer: Trump hiring Goldman is terrible. It is a good indicator that Trump will helm the expansion of government.

On the other hand, Big Deal. It just becomes another bout of Obamazuma's Revenge - the New World Order decline that has had a docent in the President since H.W. Bush. Hillary would be the exact same with menopausal lesbianism as political entertainment instead of model-banging quips.

Now, if Trump is simply a double-minded negotiator, that means you are going to get some treats mixed into the same-old gruel: including the wall.

Goldman Sachs may end up bonding the wall to Mexico in any case.

Blogger bob k. mando May 05, 2016 4:32 PM  

Steve May 05, 2016 1:02 PM
Bloody immigrants.



in your case, shouldn't that be "Bloody emigrants"?



Nate May 05, 2016 1:03 PM
Conservative because Conservative is the real progressive? ***gag***



i don't know why you're surprised.

i already pointed out earlier this very week that conservative / liberal / progressive are all, at their root, absolutely relativistic and unfixed terms. any attempt to affix a particular ideology or definition to them is to make them a technical term of art with no application outside the society in which the definition was formulated.

and their use is explicitly so that ideologies and policies can be pushed into and out of various labels such that everyone becomes hopelessly confused about what they are supposed to stand for or want.

whether she is a useful idiot or one of those actively driving the corruption makes little difference.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_Republican <<< from 1854

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factions_in_the_Republican_Party_%28United_States%29#Progressive_Republicans <<< from 1910, led by Teddy, "social justice" concerns were a rather large part of their ideology

and now Republicans stand foursquare against 'social justice warriors'. you think this an accident?



CM May 05, 2016 1:17 PM
I'm not so old to be seeing a complete shift in "conservative" thought like this, am I?



she's not an American.

she's an English national ( former member of Parliament ) married to a Jew who immigrated to New York.

the idea that she would have any concern for the US Constitution is laughably absurd.



Stilicho May 05, 2016 1:28 PM
In the past you've categorized your own position as Christian libertarian or Christian nationalist. How would you define the political philosophy?


he said he was Nationalist Libertarian.



rubberducky May 05, 2016 3:11 PM
I'm very unhappy with this inability of conservatives to define what conservatism actually is.


you CAN'T define "conservatism" rationally apart from first identifying the culture / laws / norms that you want to conserve.

this is a feature, not a bug.

a Virginian conservative of 1776 would have been on the side of the Redcoats.

Blogger Teri May 05, 2016 4:35 PM  

As I umderstand it , (and I can't find the article I read this morning), the new money guy's dad was a Goldman Sachs partner. So he went to school and worked Goldmans when he graduated. He put together a group to buy a Southern California bank. That's what he is currently involved in.

Anonymous fop May 05, 2016 4:40 PM  

Goldman Sachs is a venture capitalist, fop. A damn big one.

I mean a venture capitalist who actually takes on risk.

Blogger weka May 05, 2016 4:40 PM  

@96. John, good summary of the role of the civil magistrate. I don't think Americans can be Tories: you need a King for that. They can be Whigs. They can even be Christian. And they can support tradition.

We said sir, You are quoted elsewhere, or will be in three hours :P

Anonymous fop May 05, 2016 4:44 PM  

John Wright - nice essay.

Blogger Matthew and the Heaving Bosoms of Liberty May 05, 2016 4:52 PM  

Steve wrote:Bloody immigrants.

Soon.

Blogger Student in Blue May 05, 2016 4:53 PM  

Re: Trump hiring someone from Goldman Sachs

Some of the discussion and rationale I've seen behind it basically involves "Where else would you get someone very skilled and experienced in multi-million-dollar finance?". There's also a smattering of "Finance chairman in a campaign is not the same thing as a job in the Treasury".

True to a point... but it's still something to keep an eye on.

Anonymous rubberducky May 05, 2016 4:59 PM  

John Wright, my what an excellent summation of your thought. It is too bad that movement conservatives do not or cannot articulate themselves with such clarity.

Anonymous VFM #6306 May 05, 2016 5:02 PM  

Why would a campaign want a risk finance guy? You want a reward finance guy. A VC for a political campaign is stupid. You want a bank, not a gambler.

If course you don't want Goldman, either.

Blogger Krul May 05, 2016 5:09 PM  

Nate wrote:2) Trump is full of crap about all this right wing nationalist stuff and he is just saying whatever he needs to say to win the election and the people he's hiring are evidence of the coming backstab.

This would be good new for you, Nate, since you're in favor of getting to Round 2 sooner rather than later.

If Trump were to betray his base, after ALL THIS, they'd be absolutely furious. If that happened, the Ultra Nationalists probably wouldn't even bother waiting for the next election year to take over.

Blogger Nate May 05, 2016 5:11 PM  

"True to a point... but it's still something to keep an eye on."

its good to see some healthy objectivity.

Anonymous Eric the Red May 05, 2016 5:12 PM  

Meritocracy and freedom of association are not antithetical to equal opportunity. Only leftists try to distort it otherwise. They disguise the reality that the preponderance of people from some cultures are always going to perform better than those from other cultures, all of which are formulated around a core of HBD. That reality must be evaded by the leftist at all costs. It's the point at which equality of opportunity has no choice but to morph into equality of outcomes. Anyone like Mensch who doesn't understand this is simply another useful idiot.

Anonymous mature-Craig May 05, 2016 5:13 PM  

To me, my duty as a conservative is to oppose Donald Trump because he’s not a conservative.

I guess conservatism has done something for him

Blogger Nate May 05, 2016 5:14 PM  

"This would be good new for you, Nate, since you're in favor of getting to Round 2 sooner rather than later."

A hillary win is also a step in that direction. As the South will be solidly in Trump's hands.

So every time the South votes solid one way.. and loses... it drives home the message that we're being dictated to by a bunch of people who do not have our interests in mind.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents May 05, 2016 5:20 PM  

https://in.news.yahoo.com/merkel-warns-return-nationalism-unless-140123058.html

German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Thursday urged European leaders to protect the EU's external borders or risk a "return to nationalism”.

Stupid, treasonous sow should have thought of that a year ago before inviting a million colonizing invaders.

OpenID b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440 May 05, 2016 5:21 PM  

Trump pulled off that the ole maximum, "if you owe the bank $5 million they own you, if you owe the bank $500 million you own them" in the late 80's. He also regularly walks from various failing businesses with his own personal wealth in tact.

So it isn't true that he hasn't won against the bankers. In fact, one of Trump's best qualities is his understanding of sunk cost. The question of whether he will employ that knowledge when its not his money on the line though is a different matter. And of course, he doesn't golf and dine with the John Q Taxpayer.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents May 05, 2016 5:22 PM  

https://in.news.yahoo.com/merkel-warns-return-nationalism-unless-140123058.html

German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Thursday urged European leaders to protect the EU's external borders or risk a "return to nationalism”.

Stupid, treasonous sow should have thought of that a year ago before inviting a million colonizing invaders.

OpenID b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440 May 05, 2016 5:24 PM  

So every time the South votes solid one way.. and loses... it drives home the message that we're being dictated to by a bunch of people who do not have our interests in mind.

At least until the northern cities get far enough along in the process of repatriating the blacks back to the South.

Anonymous Andrew E. May 05, 2016 5:26 PM  

Look, if Ron Paul were the nominee we'd all have to keep an eye on him until he actually accomplished what he said he would accomplish. Trump is no different. People said Trump was going establishment when he hired Manafort. And then after he came on board suddenly Trump was winning primaries by strong majorities and was able to dispatch Cruz and Kasich for good.

Trump has mentioned a few times at his rallies that the banking system is rigged against small businesses and individuals. Manafort has been saying this regularly in his interviews over the last few weeks. It's on Trump's radar along with auditing the Fed. I don't hold to the view that everyone who sets foot inside Goldman suddenly or eventually transforms into a vampire. And there are such things as nationalist, patriotic billionaires who would love to see Trump and his platform succeed and are willing to give him tens of millions each.

I would actually like to see Trump give more air time and priority to the need to dismantle the medical monopolies beyond the pharma industry which he's already addressed in speeches repeatedly.

Blogger Mastermind May 05, 2016 5:34 PM  

You let her off way too easy vox. The drivel about conservatives being the "real" progressives deserved an in-depth response since it drives at the heart of cuckservatism.

Blogger Nick S May 05, 2016 5:35 PM  

rubberducky wrote:John Wright, my what an excellent summation of your thought. It is too bad that movement conservatives do not or cannot articulate themselves with such clarity.

There are only a handful of people on the planet who are able to articulate their thoughts with the same degree of concision as Mr. Wright, rubberducky.

Anonymous Ain May 05, 2016 5:43 PM  

Louise Mensch: The democrats are about to elect as president, because she is going to be the president, a woman that speaks to Goldman-Sachs regularly and takes money for it. As a conservative, I say more power to her elbow. You go get that money girl. I like to see an entrepreneur.

She has an odd way of (re)defining stuff throughout the interview. I don't know if it's just her (though I suspect it), or if it is an example of how different things are in Britain. What she cheerfully calls entrepreneurship, most people would call bribery and corruption.

Anonymous Steed May 05, 2016 5:44 PM  

I recall the 104th Congress. Newt the Gangster. He said that he was gonna get tax cuts and end fedgov funding for abortions. well he went into the room with the Dems over the latter. An hour later came out and said, ``Hey we tried but no go.`` Then he went into the room with the Dems over the former. This went on for days. Finally he came out cheering like it was `Rocky XXX`! Tax cuts! I thought, ``So he prefers property to people.`` The Repukes are as useful to us as much as the tits on a hog are to a staving piglet.

Anonymous krymneth May 05, 2016 5:48 PM  

The best way to understand Trump is that he is the vanguard of the political realignment that a lot of people have felt coming for the last 10-15 years. As some of the other comments in this discussion have pointed out, the "liberal/conservative" axis has almost ceased to have meaning, so a new axis is emerging. "Globalist/nationalist" is its current incarnation perhaps but there's no guarantee that's what it will land on. But it will land somewhere.

And when it lands, the people who line up along the new axis will be the same people there are today. It's not like several hundred million new people will take the place of the current several hundred million people. Pretty much everybody will then have a history of having been a Conservative/Liberal in the past, but now they're an X or a Not-X, whatever those may be. If I'm correct about this, it won't make much sense to categorize people by what they were, the only thing that will matter much is what they are.

As some people have already said, it is going to be difficult to hire someone to work with money who hasn't been big in the money world before. But the question is, are they coming in aligned on the new axis, or are they coming in aligned on the old and just another current Establishment member? There really isn't going to be a way to tell until we see their actions.

This is also why I'm not generally too worried about what Trump advocated for ten or twenty years ago. My opinions have changed in that time period too, especially as the axis has begun its mad spinning; in another 4-8 years it is likely that virtually everybody is going to have had a massive opinion shift of some sort. In fact, look hard enough and you can see Hillary's spun too. This isn't really a crack against her... pretty much everybody has and will. The question today is all about what actions will our leaders take in the future if they win, not what positions did they have 10 years ago.

Speaking for myself, I'll still take the risk that Trump might not truly want to do or be able to do what he's saying over the near-certainty that Hillary can.

Blogger Were-Puppy May 05, 2016 5:55 PM  

A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents
Robert E. Howard’s
--

Has absolutely nothing to do with this

Blogger praetorian May 05, 2016 5:57 PM  

I'm very interested in hearing what Trump supporters think of this guy.

Not happy about it at all, especially the Soros connection, but also not sure what else we could expect. He's a rich New Yorker. They hire jewish bankers to handle money there.

In a perfect world, his campaign is powered entirely by bitcoin and rare pepes. This is not that world.

Blogger Mastermind May 05, 2016 6:06 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger praetorian May 05, 2016 6:06 PM  

Like those Catholic bloggers who, early on, always defended Pope Francis, those who have put faith in Trump as anything other than a con-artist are going to end up losing a lot of credibility.

If we get a wall, we got more than we could have reasonably hoped for from electoral politics, fam.

There is no credibility here, only rearguard actions before the big show. And keks.

Blogger Mastermind May 05, 2016 6:07 PM  

Trump is hiring mercenaries. The best ones work for liberals which is why they keep winning. I'd be more worried if he was hiring skill-free conmen associated with Republicans.

Anonymous johnc May 05, 2016 6:12 PM  

@123 This is also why I'm not generally too worried about what Trump advocated for ten or twenty years ago. My opinions have changed in that time period too

He proposes completely opposite things in the span of 15 minutes. Let's not whitewash this too much here.

Blogger Nate May 05, 2016 6:39 PM  

"
This is also why I'm not generally too worried about what Trump advocated for ten or twenty years ago"

That's not the trouble. The trouble is what he was adovcating for 2 and 3 years ago. And what he is still advocating today (single payer)

Blogger Tom K. May 05, 2016 6:48 PM  

I refuse to allow you to exclude me from the group I don't want to belong to!

I'm the exact opposite of you. That's why I should to called the same thing!

Republicans are the Real Democrats. . .hey, wait. That works!

Blogger Tom K. May 05, 2016 6:49 PM  

Isn't that the kind of shit a libtard says?

Blogger Harsh May 05, 2016 7:13 PM  

A male using a hyphenated last name is just gay

Or British...

Blogger Were-Puppy May 05, 2016 7:14 PM  

:P

300 Trump version - quite funny how they put all these different people in there

https://youtu.be/W7I92r9GqUw

Anonymous Andrew E. May 05, 2016 7:33 PM  

And what he is still advocating today (single payer)

Never happened. Not once. A Cruz lie.

Anonymous Bobby Farr May 05, 2016 8:08 PM  

So a "conservative" is basically a moderate leftist whose priority is defending himself, generally via virtue signalling, against attacks from more extreme SJW leftists. Add talk of Jesus and love of America (in each case divorced from policy) to taste.

Anonymous map May 05, 2016 8:11 PM  

But conservatism is a revolutionary ideology if you are resurrecting something has been lost to strengthening something has been weakened.

Blogger Scott6584 May 05, 2016 8:33 PM  

Trump and his supporters have alienated more people than I think they realize. Permanently alienated them. But on the flip side, Hillary may have alienated just as many lefties.

In a recent poll, Trump got 38%, Hillary got 38%, Neither got 16%, and undecided got 8%. This has to be the weirdest year for Presidential politics in my experience.

I'm not willing to make predictions...

Blogger Were-Puppy May 05, 2016 8:44 PM  

You keep saying that but Cruzlims have alienated by far more people when you add in Beck, Levin, and people such as yourself who come in here whining continually about how Trump and his supporters blah blah blah.

Blogger Were-Puppy May 05, 2016 8:45 PM  

Harsh May 05, 2016 7:13 PM
A male using a hyphenated last name is just gay

Or British...
---

I honestly had no idea !

Anonymous Bobby Farr May 05, 2016 8:56 PM  

Yeah, Trump alienates a lot of people. That would explain his progressively increasing poll numbers and record setting number of votes.

Anonymous map May 05, 2016 9:04 PM  

The only thing alienating about Trump was the immigration, national security and foreign trade issues he brought. Quite moderate positions, if you think about it. Certainly more moderate than the Dread Ilk. Yet, the establishment went nuts on him. Simply calling out the farce of illegal immigration and the failure of "free trade" was enough to get Trump blasted. That is a very revealing data point.

In the end, Trump is a very important barometer for the survival of the United States.

Blogger Harsh May 05, 2016 9:07 PM  

Trump and his supporters have alienated more people than I think they realize.

Yep. I hear his new ceiling can't possibly top 100%...

I'm not willing to make predictions...

Why not, it's a pretty easy call at this point.

Blogger SciVo May 05, 2016 9:08 PM  

@ rubberducky: I am certain, however, that if a movement popped up and declared itself simple, "Not Left", then we would be better off.

Isn't that the simplest definition of the alt-right?

Anonymous Gen. Kong May 05, 2016 9:39 PM  

It's certainly the most entertaining train ride in many a year. This train is indeed very fine.

Anonymous johnc May 05, 2016 9:53 PM  

@138 But on the flip side, Hillary may have alienated just as many lefties.

Don't worry, the Democrats will always rally around their candidate. They have no principles. They might not be motivated to get out and vote, though.

Blogger Matthew and the Heaving Bosoms of Liberty May 05, 2016 9:59 PM  

All the glass ceilings in Trump buildings are mirrored.

Blogger Jimmy Pacek May 05, 2016 10:17 PM  

You're absolutely correct Vox. Even Capitalism was opposed by early Conservatives. The mistake Ms. Mensch makes is thinking that Liberalism is any more of a coherent ideology. Liberalism, at its heart, is a revolutionary opposition to coherent principles. That is why the game keeps changing for liberals and conservatives.

Blogger Jimmy Pacek May 05, 2016 10:19 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous BGKB May 05, 2016 10:32 PM  

Yep. I hear his new ceiling can't possibly top 100%...

Actually 98% to account for stab America in the back for Israel jews if there is no voter fraud.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents May 05, 2016 10:42 PM  

@124 were-puppy

Eh, one barbarian is as good as another.

Blogger The Other Robot May 05, 2016 11:08 PM  

Fuck you Ben Sasse (R-Nebraska) turncoat!

Blogger lowercaseb May 05, 2016 11:20 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger lowercaseb May 05, 2016 11:23 PM  

It's not a dichotomy... They could be both.

I personally find it charming that your honor both the Were and Puppy family names.

I'd add a smiley, but I'm not man enough to be that gay.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY May 05, 2016 11:25 PM  

" getting to Round 2 sooner rather than later."
yankees are going to get they sorry asses kicked.
Get it done now, it might be worse later.

Blogger lowercaseb May 05, 2016 11:27 PM  

Bah... Quote fail.

Blogger JohnG May 05, 2016 11:31 PM  

"I prefer actors to commentators, so I don’t really care what some guy said in some book"

I had an argument with somebody that dismissed Voltair out of hand for a similar reason. The ignorance in this country (reinforced by social media) is astounding. The future is bloody. We're reducing ourselves to Iraqi and Afghan goat fuckers.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY May 05, 2016 11:33 PM  

"Trump and his supporters have alienated more people than I think they realize"
Shoddy, we bitch slapped a bunch of ya. Quit bawlin' and let's bitch slap Hillaroid.

Anonymous Philalethes May 06, 2016 1:01 AM  

Didn't seem much like a "debate", actually. More like a perfect example of "Never argue with a woman" – she's a constantly moving target, nothing actually substantive there, only a series of buzzwords and slogans to express her incoherent, but oh-so-important, strongly held (thus must be valid & important), personal, solipsistic feelings. Thus also a perfect example of how allowing political power or influence to women is a recipe for civilizational disaster.

@96 John Wright: Excellent, thanks.

Anonymous BGKB May 06, 2016 1:01 AM  

OT: Bert and Ernie now HIV+ http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/nothing-sacred-ad-campaign-shows-bert-ernie-tested-stds
"Another case in point is a new ad for a home HIV/STD testing kit that features the iconic Bert and Ernie Sesame Street puppets reading the "results" of their screening.

Sesame Street is now threatening legal action against Mately, the company that ran the ad using unauthorized images of the show's characters."

Blogger Wes May 06, 2016 1:10 AM  

Mr. Wright: excellent comments. Well-done.

Blogger Wes May 06, 2016 1:12 AM  

Mrs. Mensch comes across in that interview/debate as a kind, well-meaning person, and it's good that Vox showed her patience and politeness. That said, I think she's naive and confused about the issues under discussion.

Blogger Were-Puppy May 06, 2016 1:14 AM  

@153 lowercaseb
I'd add a smiley, but I'm not man enough to be that gay.
---

Its a puppy with its tongue hanging out :P

Blogger Were-Puppy May 06, 2016 1:19 AM  

All kidding aside, I believe it was on Heat Street that I found the story of the New Melissa Click - another SJW Prof threatening cops on some student journalists for filming protesters. But I haven't spent much time looking around there besides the one story.

Blogger Jimmy Pacek May 06, 2016 2:08 AM  

The problem that conservatives have, is that even the Founding Fathers were liberals.

Blogger Jimmy Pacek May 06, 2016 2:09 AM  

The problem that conservatives have, is that even the Founding Fathers were liberals.

Blogger John M May 06, 2016 3:47 AM  

Scott6584 wrote:Trump and his supporters have alienated more people than I think they realize.

NeverTrump have alienated more people than I think they realize. Even the Trump haters will not be happy to see the Hill Republicans more interested in shooting the guy who won the nomination fair and square than in shooting the opposition. Think a lot of these people will be getting their punishment in the next midterms.

Blogger John S May 06, 2016 8:19 AM  

Damn lady...

My translation (imagine a female Glenn Beck; wait, that's redundant... Anyway Glenn Beck with a cockney accent): "So the problem is, dems'r the real racists, innit guv?"

Anonymous mature craig May 06, 2016 9:31 AM  

Was wondering if someone could elaborate on term convergence is it like assimilation?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 06, 2016 12:17 PM  

"convergence" means putting SJWs in charge of the actual work of the company. The end result is that Social Justice become more important within the company than doing the actual workl of the company.

So you see the new feminist Ghost Busters, which lays the SJ on so thick that it's unwatchable.

Anonymous mature craig May 06, 2016 12:27 PM  

Got it

Blogger James Dixon May 06, 2016 1:18 PM  

Sowell doubles down on #NeverTrump. It disappointing to see a (formerly?) intelligent man dismiss the electorate and their votes in this way: http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2016/05/06/an-unmitigated-disaster-n2158652

Dr. Sowell should consider the possibility that the electorate at large has a wider perspective than he does and is making the correct decision.

Anonymous Paul Rain May 06, 2016 5:22 PM  

A former MP for the 'Conservative Party' of the UK.. what a great example of a modern conservative. The 'Conservative Party' simply seeks to preserve the degenerate faggotry of 20 years ago. And mai taxes and capitalism and Israel.

Anonymous mature-Craig May 06, 2016 7:18 PM  

it is rather sickening to think you have these "conservative" writers and pundits, I assume making lots of money, probably never felt the hurt of economic recession, and they want be a nuissance to someone trying to fix the country economically.

Anonymous mature-Craig May 06, 2016 7:24 PM  

hopefully they will come around and put the good of the country ahead of their egoes

Anonymous mature-Craig May 06, 2016 10:34 PM  

I was just thinking, I think Trump is gonna be very good on foreign policy too, strategic thinking, negotiating from a position of strength, things happening that are in the American peoples best interest.

Anonymous mature craig May 07, 2016 8:11 AM  

While I can see the point some repub conservatives are trying to make. The time to make that point was last year

Anonymous mature craig May 07, 2016 6:00 PM  

Re 718 I take back that comment. Sorry about that. Thankfully we live in a great country with a free exchange of ideas

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