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Friday, May 06, 2016

Working as intended

Apple will decide what files you are permitted to have on your computer.
“The software is functioning as intended,” said Amber.
“Wait,” I asked, “so it’s supposed to delete my personal files from my internal hard drive without asking my permission?”
“Yes,” she replied.

I had just explained to Amber that 122 GB of music files were missing from my laptop. I’d already visited the online forum, I said, and they were no help. Although several people had described problems similar to mine, they were all dismissed by condescending “gurus” who simply said that we had mislocated our files (I had the free drive space to prove that wasn’t the case) or that we must have accidentally deleted the files ourselves (we hadn’t). Amber explained that I should blow off these dismissive “solutions” offered online because Apple employees don’t officially use the forums—evidently, that honor is reserved for lost, frustrated people like me, and (at least in this case) know-it-alls who would rather believe we were incompetent, or lying, than face the ugly truth that Apple has vastly overstepped its boundaries.

What Amber explained was exactly what I’d feared: through the Apple Music subscription, which I had, Apple now deletes files from its users’ computers.
This is hardly a surprise. If you want to live inside a walled garden, your life is subject to the will of the gardener.

Labels:

152 Comments:

Blogger Nate May 06, 2016 3:33 PM  

Apple is insidious evil. If a present wanted to defend america... he could start by carpet bombing Cupertino.

Anonymous Orville May 06, 2016 3:34 PM  

The Mac is fine.

Blogger Michael Maier May 06, 2016 3:36 PM  

Amazon's cloud service blows too. Even after they sell you a CD with a free digital copy AND say your library will be kept on the cloud, they do not KEEP all of that music on the cloud.

What criteria do they use to decide if an album "falls off" the cloud?

No freakin' clue.

Anonymous VFM #6306 May 06, 2016 3:36 PM  

The Walled Garden just got ten feet higher, muchacho. Now prune my itunes before I call INS.

Anonymous Fran May 06, 2016 3:44 PM  

Yes I wonder what criteria they use to delete MUSIC files...too much heavy metal maybe? Or maybe too Country and Western.

Anonymous Broken Arrow May 06, 2016 3:44 PM  

It was a stylish, hipster, latte drinking, delete though so there's that.

Blogger JCclimber May 06, 2016 3:45 PM  

"Insanely great".
Emphasis on the insane portion of that statement.

Over time, they have converted me from a big Apple products fan to a hater.

Blogger Matthew Heaving Bosoms May 06, 2016 3:45 PM  

Doesn't Amazon do this with Kindle, also?

Anonymous Freemont member May 06, 2016 3:47 PM  

Still the simplest, most intuitive OS in the world. Plus, best CS.

Blogger Jewel May 06, 2016 3:48 PM  

And I thought it was just me.

Anonymous bluto May 06, 2016 3:48 PM  

Not in my experience, I've loaded a large number of books, pdfs, and other documents from Gutenberg onto my kindle without issue for many years.

Anonymous RedJack May 06, 2016 3:49 PM  

Matthew Heaving Bosoms wrote:Doesn't Amazon do this with Kindle, also?

Never had it happen yet. Though I have so many books I might not notice a few slipping away. I have had some issues with a library book not getting returned correctly.

Anonymous Quartermaster May 06, 2016 3:49 PM  

Never liked Apple. I've had little trouble from Windoze, although I don't care for it. It certainly does not delete files because it wants to.

Blogger doug whiddon May 06, 2016 3:50 PM  

My Kindle is stuffed to the gills with books I don't own and I've never lost a file.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer May 06, 2016 3:52 PM  

Never used an apple product, never will.

All Linux all the time now.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer May 06, 2016 3:52 PM  

Never used an apple product, never will.

All Linux all the time now.

Blogger Nate May 06, 2016 3:53 PM  

"Doesn't Amazon do this with Kindle, also?"

I don't believe so.

I still have a copy of John Scalzi is a Rapist. If ever there was a book they nuked... it was that one. And it stayed downloaded.

Blogger Matthew Heaving Bosoms May 06, 2016 3:54 PM  

http://www.zdnet.com/article/why-amazon-is-within-its-rights-to-remove-access-to-your-kindle-books/

Blogger bob k. mando May 06, 2016 3:55 PM  

8. Matthew Heaving Bosoms May 06, 2016 3:45 PM
Doesn't Amazon do this with Kindle, also?



Kindle deletes all of your personally composed .doc files and ( if you're lucky ) moves them to the Cloud?

" If Apple Music saw a file it didn’t recognize—which came up often, since I’m a freelance composer and have many music files that I created myself—it would then download it to Apple’s database, delete it from my hard drive, and serve it back to me when I wanted to listen"


she complains that Apple can't be sued because of the restrictive EULA ... i find it quite strange that the 'president' of a creative content company can be this ignorant. the issue of hyper aggressive EULA terms was litigated ... more than a decade ago? they have no force and are not legally binding in any way.

and we're talking about software which has been engineered to intentionally and maliciously deface and destroy the personal data created by the end user.

if this weren't Apple, you'd say this was one of the worst virus infestations the world has ever seen.

Blogger Matthew Heaving Bosoms May 06, 2016 3:55 PM  

Y'all's poor memory amuses me.

OpenID randkoch May 06, 2016 3:56 PM  

Amazon did this to an Orwell book sold by a third party without permission of the copyright holder.

They caught enough flak that they promised never to do it again.

Blogger Starbuck May 06, 2016 3:58 PM  

15. Ron Winkleheimer May 06, 2016 3:52 PM
Never used an apple product, never will.

All Linux all the time now.

16. Ron Winkleheimer May 06, 2016 3:52 PM
Never used an apple product, never will.

All Linux all the time now.


So did you like type that twice or did Linux go into duplex mode?
So did you like type that twice or did Linux go into duplex mode?

Blogger Starbuck May 06, 2016 3:58 PM  

[snicker]

Anonymous VFM #7916 May 06, 2016 3:58 PM  

This is why I don't have an iTunes account, and don't use apple products anymore.

If you're going to play with snakes, then do it on a dedicated computer otherwise isolated from your network.

And Nate, Amazon does indeed do it with Kindle books.

Blogger Matthew Heaving Bosoms May 06, 2016 3:58 PM  

bob k. mando wrote:if this weren't Apple, you'd say this was one of the worst virus infestations the world has ever seen.

Apple regularly fucks up software by trying to be helpful. Every. Single. Major update breaks something in my workflow, since 2001, before I was even a programmer.

I was actually an AppleCare phone monkey during that one time when an update to OS 9 would clobber the file system on specific models of iMac.

Blogger The Other Robot May 06, 2016 3:59 PM  

OT: This time it was pig heads, next time?

Blogger Nate May 06, 2016 3:59 PM  

Bob is correct.

There is a giant difference between denying access to files you downloaded from amazon or apple... and stealing files you created yourself and did not acquire through their service.

Blogger Noah B May 06, 2016 3:59 PM  

Sure it occasionally deletes my data without my consent, but the Apple execs are such hipsters and the OS is so easy to use!

Blogger Nate May 06, 2016 4:02 PM  

There are of course solutions to this. I have an old smartphone that I now use as an MP3 storage device. What I have found is... it works when it is not connected to the internet.

So... when I get something new from amazon... I download it to that old device and leave it there. If my service or account from amazon ever goes away... or they try to take their stuff back... they won't be able to because I won't connect that device back to the internet.

Blogger Matthew Heaving Bosoms May 06, 2016 4:03 PM  

If Apple Music saw a file it didn’t recognize—which came up often, since I’m a freelance composer and have many music files that I created myself—it would then download it to Apple’s database, delete it from my hard drive, and serve it back to me when I wanted to listen, just like it would with my other music files it had deleted.

This is retarded, of course, but not sinister. It's a classic case of trying to guess what the user wants.

Y'all really need to hire a fat Jewess to dig the pebbles out of your vaginas.

Blogger Matthew Heaving Bosoms May 06, 2016 4:04 PM  

Nate wrote:Bob is correct.

There's always a millionth time.

Blogger RobertT May 06, 2016 4:04 PM  

I've had this problem as well. The easy fix is just replace the missing songs based on your purchases. Apple should able to do that, but they can't. This happens often enough that should be the automatic fix, but it isn't. Why are they even on the cloud? Why are they pushing icloud versions if they can't even do this simple procedure?

Everytime I bring up iTunes the ask me to switch video, audio defaults to Apple. Nobody else does that. F**k'em, I prefer Microsoft right now.

I've spent half my life on forums trying to resolve issues with Apple. They're not as focused on the customer as they lead you to believe.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 May 06, 2016 4:05 PM  

Back up your media content regularly. Apple is not alone in this and I fully expect Microsoft to start engaging in "anti-piracy" software soon, if they haven't done so already.

And like YouTube, you will be guilty until you can prove your innocence via a long email process to an AI bot who tags you as being guilty of murder because it amuses it.

Anonymous DE-173/Code 19/Vox Nox May 06, 2016 4:06 PM  

Linux, anyone? There's even a distro that mimics the Apple desktop, Pearl.

Besides, Tim Cook is, and leads a company full of SJW's.

Blogger The Other Robot May 06, 2016 4:08 PM  

Y'all really need to hire a fat Jewess to dig the pebbles out of your vaginas.

Or, a young one to play Han Solo.

Blogger Nate May 06, 2016 4:08 PM  

"This is retarded, of course, but not sinister. It's a classic case of trying to guess what the user wants."

your naiveté' is fascinating.

Blogger Matthew Heaving Bosoms May 06, 2016 4:08 PM  

RobertT wrote:I've spent half my life on forums trying to resolve issues with Apple. They're not as focused on the customer as they lead you to believe.

Competing imperatives. The walled garden secretness is definitely at odds with helping out customers. There were many things that AppleCare reps knew about technical problems which we were not allowed to talk about.

Blogger Matthew Heaving Bosoms May 06, 2016 4:09 PM  

Nate wrote:your naiveté' is fascinating.

Alternatively, I'm actually knowledgeable in this field that you aren't.

Blogger Nate May 06, 2016 4:09 PM  

"Besides, Tim Cook is, and leads a company full of SJW's."

Correct.

he claims to have broken up a Klan rally when he was 12 years old... supposedly this happened not far from my house.

Its arguably the most hilarious lie I've ever heard... and is a massive running joke around here.

Blogger Matthew Heaving Bosoms May 06, 2016 4:09 PM  

swiftfoxmark2 wrote:Back up your media content regularly. Apple is not alone in this and I fully expect Microsoft to start engaging in "anti-piracy" software soon, if they haven't done so already.



Why back up when you can torrent?

Blogger RobertT May 06, 2016 4:10 PM  

Microsoft office for onecloud is a great product for no cost at all. Free downloads. We have the desktop version at work and i've synced all my apple devices as well. Outlook, Excel, Word. I recommend getting assistance on setup, but once it's up and going, it's a lifesaver. Couldn't live without it.

Blogger Matthew Heaving Bosoms May 06, 2016 4:10 PM  

DE-173/Code 19/Vox Nox wrote:Linux, anyone? There's even a distro that mimics the Apple desktop, Pearl.



If you're going to make a statement, make it OpenBSD.

Blogger Matthew Heaving Bosoms May 06, 2016 4:11 PM  

Nate wrote:Its arguably the most hilarious lie I've ever heard... and is a massive running joke around here.

His lisp spatter gave them instant onset AIDS.

Blogger Nate May 06, 2016 4:12 PM  

'Alternatively, I'm actually knowledgeable in this field that you aren't.'

Ah yes... HTML totally qualifies you to know Apple's motivations.

Blogger Nate May 06, 2016 4:15 PM  

'Why back up when you can torrent?'

bro... do you even Grid Down?

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 May 06, 2016 4:17 PM  

Why back up when you can torrent?

Because the torrent protocol can be blocked. At the ISP level. It wouldn't surprise me if the FCC is already looking into it alongside the NSA. Gotta keep the Hollywood elite happy, after all.

Techno-fascism is coming if these tech-elites have their way. Make no mistake about that.

Blogger Matthew Heaving Bosoms May 06, 2016 4:19 PM  

Nate wrote:Ah yes... HTML totally qualifies you to know Apple's motivations.

And I haven't even learned HTML 5.0 yet!

Blogger BunE22 May 06, 2016 4:19 PM  

The only Apple product I use is an iPad and I don't have music on it but I noticed that the frequently visit shortcuts on my Safari drop down no longer have this blog or The Conservative Treehouse. I don't go there often but I come here every day so I don't know why it would disappear.

When I needed a new phone I got a Samsung. I went to install the Battle. net Authenticator on it and got a pop-up that said it would have access to my Photos/Media/Files, read the contents of the SD card, and modify or delete the contents of my SD card. I didn't install it.

Why would an app that generates a random password need to access my photos or SD card?

Blogger Starbuck May 06, 2016 4:21 PM  

Ya'll need to be tolerant of Apple. They decided they are all computers and not people. You must respect that decision so that they will feel comfortable.

Anonymous Connor May 06, 2016 4:23 PM  

While iTunes by and large is the worst piece of software Apple produces, I think this user is not entirely correct.

It sounds more like a clueless user did something he didn't understand, and a clueless person at Apple Support reinforcing his story.

Either way, if you have that much music or data of any kind without any sort of backup, I have no sympathy for you if you lose it for any reason.

This link has some additional details on what it may or may not have been, especially for those of you unfamiliar with Apple Music and iTunes.

http://www.macrumors.com/2016/05/06/apple-music-deletion-debate/

Blogger bob k. mando May 06, 2016 4:23 PM  

31. Matthew Heaving Bosoms May 06, 2016 4:04 PM
There's always a millionth time.



i believe you forgot to prefix that with "one in a".

Blogger The Other Robot May 06, 2016 4:23 PM  

If you're going to make a statement, make it OpenBSD.

Ummm, dude, DragonFly BSD!

Blogger Starbuck May 06, 2016 4:24 PM  

Microsoft office for onecloud is a great product for no cost at all. Free downloads. We have the desktop version at work and i've synced all my apple devices as well. Outlook, Excel, Word. I recommend getting assistance on setup, but once it's up and going, it's a lifesaver. Couldn't live without it.

Couldn't live without it...

Umm,.. Really?! Come on... Really?!
If that's true, then you're an idiot or REALLY naive.

Blogger Matthew Heaving Bosoms May 06, 2016 4:25 PM  

bob k. mando wrote:i believe you forgot to prefix that with "one in a".

Shut up and take my compliment.

Anonymous VFM #6306 May 06, 2016 4:25 PM  

Apple is Dr. Miller's Singularity.

Blogger Matthew Heaving Bosoms May 06, 2016 4:25 PM  

The Other Robot wrote:Ummm, dude, DragonFly BSD!

I don't care about ease of use. I care about Theo deRaadt insults.

Blogger bob k. mando May 06, 2016 4:29 PM  

50. Connor May 06, 2016 4:23 PM
Either way, if you have that much music or data of any kind without any sort of backup, I have no sympathy for you if you lose it for any reason.



she did have it backed up, you twit.

why don't you try reading the story before further compounding your reputation as a dummkopf?

and backup or no, that's completely irrelevant to the software being intentionally engineered to destroy "unrecognized" ( that is, original composition ) data files.

that's just out and out insane.

i mean, i realize they did this because this is an "anti-piracy" policy they're trying to implement but just globally assuming that all unrecognized sound files should default to being scrubbed from local storage ... *shakes head*

Blogger bob k. mando May 06, 2016 4:30 PM  

54. Matthew Heaving Bosoms May 06, 2016 4:25 PM
Shut up and take my compliment.



how bout if i just fondle an extra bosom?

Blogger The Other Robot May 06, 2016 4:32 PM  

I don't care about ease of use. I care about Theo deRaadt insults.

OK, now I bow down before your superior knowledge.

Blogger The Other Robot May 06, 2016 4:33 PM  

Have you got a bike shed, Matthew?

What color?

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 May 06, 2016 4:35 PM  

You know what's funny: these executives at Apple who make these decisions are the same ones who want to place their consciousness into a machine.

Have fun forgetting how math works once that happens.

Blogger VD May 06, 2016 4:35 PM  

Doesn't Amazon do this with Kindle, also?

They can. They generally don't. Many people are having this problem with Apple. Also, it's very easy to back up your Kindle ebooks elsewhere they are not at risk. Apple works hard to make that difficult with iTunes.

Blogger tz May 06, 2016 4:41 PM  

Walled Garden, and Tim Cook is the Lawnmower Man.

Anonymous Gen. Kong May 06, 2016 4:43 PM  

Just wait until the TPP Treaty enabled by the Gay Ol'Pedos is in tutta forza. It gives DHS and its designated allies like Apple and Microsoft all manner of power to enforce provisions without notice. I think Nate is only slightly off - they need to nuke Cupertino (and Seattle) only after GOP is nuked till it glows in the dark.

Blogger Nick S May 06, 2016 4:50 PM  

Laugh at my vinyl now, bitches.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 06, 2016 4:51 PM  

Matthew Heaving Bosoms wrote:
This is retarded, of course, but not sinister. It's a classic case of trying to guess what the user wants.

Y'all really need to hire a fat Jewess to dig the pebbles out of your vaginas.



If you sign up for iTunes cloud storage they
search your hard drive for any sound files
link you to an mp3 of the same name, regardless of similarity.
failing that, they
load them in reduced quality to their cloud,
delete the original files without confirmation
Charge you for access


Tell me how this is not ransomware.

Blogger Richard Tengdin May 06, 2016 4:54 PM  

Theft, pure and simple.

Blogger SirHamster May 06, 2016 4:56 PM  

Matthew Heaving Bosoms wrote:If Apple Music saw a file it didn’t recognize—which came up often, since I’m a freelance composer and have many music files that I created myself—it would then download it to Apple’s database, delete it from my hard drive, and serve it back to me when I wanted to listen, just like it would with my other music files it had deleted.

This is retarded, of course, but not sinister. It's a classic case of trying to guess what the user wants.

Y'all really need to hire a fat Jewess to dig the pebbles out of your vaginas.


Sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice.

Anonymous Connor May 06, 2016 4:58 PM  

57. bob k. mando May 06, 2016 4:29 PM

Well, I admit, I probably skimmed too much of the end of that article. His outrage just made me assume he lost his files.

However, it does seem like Apple's matching algorithm is a bit buggy, and probably gives too many false positives to stuff in their catalog when it should just upload the users copy.

Being upset that a service that's purpose is to upload and store your stuff in the cloud deletes stuff is a bit naive. Being upset that it mis-identified the stuff it was supposed to upload and matched it to something else is reasonable.

I just think the outrage over these kinds of reports gets out of hand, just because it's Apple, is a little absurd. Especially when it's really just one person's bug report. Even if it's a bug that shouldn't have shipped.

I do agree that iTunes is pretty horrible. And Apple Music itself isn't that great.

Anonymous DC (#sqrt(-1)) May 06, 2016 4:59 PM  

Breitbart Tech November 2020
by Breitbart News Chief Editor Milo Yiannopolous
"...Apple finalized its bankruptcy proceedings in Federal Court today, satisfying all creditors and payees of the massive

judgement handed down 18 months ago in the largest class-action settlement in history, paying out 450 billion dollars to users who lost files due to widely-distributed buggy Apple Cloud software products..."

Breitbart's Big Hollywood 2021
by Breitbart staff
"...the most highly-anticipated movie of the year, starring Tom Cruise in a near-reprise of his role in A Few Good Men, shouting 'I WANT THE TRUTH!' to the Apple exec in the climax trial scene dramatizing the recent decline and fall of Apple, was awarded Best Screenplay at last night's Oscar awards, which was given to Dr. Chuck Tingle for the amazing work on the movie, "Apple Slammed in the Butt by Hard Lawyer Buds"...

Amazed that Apple would even THINK it was ok to delete files from their customers...

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 06, 2016 5:00 PM  

RobertT wrote:Microsoft office for onecloud is a great product for no cost at all. Free downloads. We have the desktop version at work and i've synced all my apple devices as well. Outlook, Excel, Word. I recommend getting assistance on setup, but once it's up and going, it's a lifesaver. Couldn't live without it.

Dude, I don't trust Google with my data, and Google just sort of bumbled into being evil.
Microsoft is dedicated to being evil and has decided to try to emulate Google in amassing data and linking it to you.
If you trust them with ANY information about you, you are insane. Do you think they have any qualms at all about selling that data to the highest bidder? Even if the highest bidder is KillWhitey Inc, or GunGrabbers LTD?

Anonymous fop May 06, 2016 5:03 PM  

This is retarded, of course, but not sinister. It's a classic case of trying to guess what the user wants.


"Should I choose to reclaim my songs via download, the files I would get back would not necessarily be the same as my original files."

That's called theft. And it's sinister.

Blogger SirHamster May 06, 2016 5:06 PM  

Connor wrote:I just think the outrage over these kinds of reports gets out of hand, just because it's Apple, is a little absurd. Especially when it's really just one person's bug report. Even if it's a bug that shouldn't have shipped.

This is an unacceptable bug. Should have gamed out the possibilities and QA'd the software to the point it couldn't fail like this.

That it did fail indicates that Apple puts a low value on your personal data and the time you've invested into using their platform.

Which is Apple's right ... users shall exercise their own rights in response.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 06, 2016 5:07 PM  

Connor wrote:However, it does seem like Apple's matching algorithm is a bit buggy, and probably gives too many false positives to stuff in their catalog when it should just upload the users copy.


"Matchnig algorithm"
Bullshit, there's no algorithm. An algorithm would get a crc or the first 1k bytes and match against a database. CRC would be damn near 100% accurate, fingerprinting would be 99% accurate. Matching against data extracted from path/filename is so retarded that you know it came from RIAA. The ONLY purpose of doing it that way would be to try to find pirated copies.

Blogger maniacprovost May 06, 2016 5:10 PM  

Being upset that a service that's purpose is to upload and store your stuff in the cloud deletes stuff is a bit naive.

The purpose of Apple Music is to stream music. I don't expect Chrome to delete all my home videos and replace them with youtube links to similar families.

Anonymous rubberducky May 06, 2016 5:18 PM  

You're holding it wrong.

Blogger Noah B May 06, 2016 5:19 PM  

"Because the torrent protocol can be blocked. At the ISP level. It wouldn't surprise me if the FCC is already looking into it alongside the NSA. Gotta keep the Hollywood elite happy, after all."

All of those schemes are easily bypassed with VPN's. Tor is a little too slow for this.

"An algorithm would get a crc or the first 1k bytes and match against a database."

A cryptographic hash algorithm, like MD5, would be the best way to go. Practically zero chance of that going wrong.

Blogger bob k. mando May 06, 2016 5:24 PM  

69. Connor May 06, 2016 4:58 PM
Well, I admit, I probably skimmed too much of the end of that article. His outrage



god DAMMIT, man. it's a WOMAN who wrote that. as i've ALREADY previously pointed out to you.

you can't even figure out the sex of the author ( 50/50 odds for you to blindly guess ) and you want us to take you seriously in your analysis?

Blogger Matthew Heaving Bosoms May 06, 2016 5:25 PM  

The Other Robot wrote:Have you got a bike shed, Matthew?

What color?


I've been having trouble deciding what shed to buy.

Anonymous Bowman May 06, 2016 5:31 PM  

@61

*You know what's funny: these executives at Apple who make these decisions are the same ones who want to place their consciousness into a machine.*

Customer : That's not the mind of my loved one !!
Apple employee : This is a mind that matched the mind of your loved one.

Blogger SirHamster May 06, 2016 5:32 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Chiva May 06, 2016 5:32 PM  

Customer : That's not the mind of my loved one !!
Apple employee : This is a mind that matched the mind of your loved one.


Abby Normal.

Blogger SirHamster May 06, 2016 5:35 PM  

bob k. mando wrote:69. Connor May 06, 2016 4:58 PM

Well, I admit, I probably skimmed too much of the end of that article. His outrage

=============
god DAMMIT, man. it's a WOMAN who wrote that. as i've ALREADY previously pointed out to you.

you can't even figure out the sex of the author ( 50/50 odds for you to blindly guess ) and you want us to take you seriously in your analysis?


If you're talking about the article that Vox linked, it's written by jamespinkstone.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 06, 2016 5:40 PM  

SirHamster wrote:it's written by jamespinkstone.
Pinkstone. Heh
Best buds with buckaroo Randy Pinkwood.

Anonymous Smile Of The Shadow May 06, 2016 5:41 PM  

Is this the match subscription thing? It stores everything on a cloud server so all of your devices can access it without eating up all their memory. You can download all the files if you want. I've never heard of anyone losing the music.

Anonymous Be Not Afraid May 06, 2016 5:41 PM  

How long until they grep for files containing BadThink and delete them for our protection?

Anonymous Connor May 06, 2016 5:43 PM  

The author's name is JAMES PINKSTONE. The Apple rep is named Amber.

Look at the byline under the title of the blog post.

Blogger Melampus the Seer May 06, 2016 5:47 PM  

It's like Apple users are in a gay male relationship or something.

Blogger Melampus the Seer May 06, 2016 5:48 PM  

Snidely Whiplash is right.

Anonymous JAG May 06, 2016 5:53 PM  

I saw this reality coming as far back as the 1990s. Back your data up on removable storage. External drives are cheap these days.

Anonymous BGKB May 06, 2016 5:58 PM  

When I first saw this I thought someone downloaded music and titled it Timmy Cook has a small PP

From the article:
“But its more than that including As a freelance composer, I save WAV files of my own compositions rather than Mp3s. WAV files have about ten times the number of samples, so they just sound better. Since Apple Music does not support WAV files, as they stole my compositions and stored them in their servers, they also converted them to Mp3s or AACs. So not only do I need to keep paying Apple Music just to access my own files, but I have to hear an inferior version of each recording instead of the one I created”

Anonymous johnc May 06, 2016 6:01 PM  

Why the hell do people put up with such a mentally retarded company like Apple?

Blogger Noah B May 06, 2016 6:05 PM  

Today Apple is deleting mp3's, tomorrow they'll be deleting and modifying old climate records.

Anonymous DT May 06, 2016 6:12 PM  

I'll never understand why Vox and Denninger...two people who normally research claims in depth...fall for every single false claim about Apple.

Every. Time.

Watching it happen is like watching a classy lady purposely decide to fart in public.

Apple's music service can be confusing. Which can lead to the user selecting options that result in deleted files. That sucks and should be improved.

But it does NOT do so by default. You have to tell it that you want all your music on the cloud to save space. It doesn't do anything on its own.

I'm all for UIs that make it difficult for end users to make potentially damaging mistakes. But the truth is James clicked past a dialog he should have read. And instead of honestly trying to identify and replicate the problem, he flipped out in a blog post.

If you want to live inside a walled garden, your life is subject to the will of the gardener.

OS X is not a walled garden. You can run any software you want, any time you want, for any reason you want, built using any tool chain you want.

Heck, Apple isn't even trying that hard to stop Hackintosh systems or OS X in virtual machines.

iOS is definitely a walled garden. I'm not necessarily against that on consumer devices. But iOS != OS X.

Anonymous BGKB May 06, 2016 6:12 PM  

Couldn't live without it... Umm,.. Really?! Come on... Really?!

With an CME/EMP if the lights went out over 80% of the US would die.

Blogger Positive Dennis May 06, 2016 6:16 PM  

Isn't a nation a walled garden?

Blogger Cataline Sergius May 06, 2016 6:21 PM  

If you want to live inside a walled garden, your life is subject to the will of the gardener.

The deal was supposed to be that the gardener was always going to be competent. Nobody said anything about the SOB dying on them.

Never enter client arrangement if there is no door marked exit.

Anonymous Euro contracter May 06, 2016 6:24 PM  

From insanely great to, uh, greatly insane. The first rule of Apple is never use 1.0. Wait and see how the greenhorns in front of you charge ahead and blow up instead.

Here is the socratic method of Steve Jobs when reviewing such projects.

"What's this thing supposed to do?"
blah blah, explains the manager
"So why the fuck doesn't it?"

Anonymous DT May 06, 2016 6:28 PM  

@98 - The first rule of Apple is never use 1.0.

Sad to say, but that's true since Jobs passed away. Of course it's always been true of pretty much the entire IT industry. Apple's software quality under Jobs was an exception, not a rule.

Still, it's painful to see that change.

Blogger R Beisert May 06, 2016 6:28 PM  

Be Not Afraid wrote:How long until they grep for files containing BadThink and delete them for our protection?

Given how many of the Apple "geniuses" don't know what grep is (and couldn't program "Hello, World!" without a step-by-step walkthrough), I think we have a few years yet.

Still, one never knows.

Blogger SirHamster May 06, 2016 6:30 PM  

DT wrote:Apple's music service can be confusing. Which can lead to the user selecting options that result in deleted files. That sucks and should be improved.

But it does NOT do so by default. You have to tell it that you want all your music on the cloud to save space. It doesn't do anything on its own.

I'm all for UIs that make it difficult for end users to make potentially damaging mistakes. But the truth is James clicked past a dialog he should have read. And instead of honestly trying to identify and replicate the problem, he flipped out in a blog post.



From the "flipped out" blog post:

"Amber relayed to me that she’s had to suffer through many calls from people who cancelled their Apple Music subscription after the free, three-month trial, only to discover that all of their own music files had been deleted and there was no way to get them back.

So my files were temporarily restored; but the only way to prevent this from happening over and over, according to Amber, was to cancel my subscription to Apple Music (which she herself doesn’t use due to the above-listed reasons) and to make sure my iCloud settings did not include storing any music backups."

Sounds like default settings to me. Never mind that even if it weren't, the behavior of this setting is maliciously incompetent.


DT wrote:If you want to live inside a walled garden, your life is subject to the will of the gardener.
----------------------
OS X is not a walled garden. You can run any software you want, any time you want, for any reason you want, built using any tool chain you want.


The Apple music cloud service and its file-deleting software is a walled garden.

Anonymous BGKB May 06, 2016 6:34 PM  

More fake than the Whole Foods KKcaKe story, leftists now spreading stories of creepy women checking stalls to make sure no men are in there. Author has a dyke daughter to boot.

http://www.sheknows.com/living/articles/1120615/

"Was she expecting a transgender woman to be lying in wait, hoping to... what? Urinate differently behind a closed door? Was a pedophile or a rapist in a dress and a bad wig going to crawl under the stall walls while she sat, even though this is a public restroom in a very busy and popular store, when anyone — including employees with walkie-talkies — could walk in at any time and catch them? "



Yet I know a friend of an ex that went to jail for sexually assaulting a minor at a McDonalds.

Anonymous FP May 06, 2016 6:40 PM  

Not surprising. Itunes is easily Apple's worst software. It was horrid and controlling six years ago, and it still is today. It was doing similar things in terms of file management/control six years ago. I refuse to install it on anything but an old windows laptop and the one mac I own to manage an ipod. It is far far safer and less of a hassle that way when dealing with music/video files.

Windows 10 and the windows store is getting to be as bad as Apple though. People said Steam/Newell and others were just paranoid with Windows 8's changes... Win10 will uninstall programs it thinks will cause problems after an update.

Anonymous Gen. Kong May 06, 2016 6:40 PM  

@94.

I do wonder why Apple is singled out. All of the major tech companies are heavily converged. Apple, Microsoft and Google are all thoroughly on the SJW team along with most of Silicon Valley - not even to mention platforms like NSAbook and Twitter. Apart from (maybe) Donald Trump, how many non-SJW billionaires are there?? The fight against the SJWs has only begun. To re-phrase Uncle Yusif's rhetorical question about the Vatican when WW II was under discussion: How many billionaires does our side have?? Look at the destruction wrought upon the second amendment in places like Nevada and Colorado - once thought to be gun-friendly states - just from the money being poured in by one SJW billionaire named Michael Bloomberg. The point here is most of the large corporations, like every other large institution in the west, have been converged to one degree or another. Apple is likely pretty bad but are they any worse than Microsoft? While VD's interesting theory that companies and institutions cease to be able to function the more they are converged is probably true at least to a degree - infusions of counterfeit cash plus inertia plus the fact that even the average public-schul edumacayted Repuke 'conservative' - the real cuck - is pretty much clueless about all this crap makes the theory difficult to prove when it comes to organizations of sufficient size and history.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 06, 2016 6:50 PM  

FP wrote:Win10 will uninstall programs it thinks will cause problems after an update.

I'm sure it's just a RobertT and Conor above think it's just a buggy algorithm, not a step towards the "you may only run MS applications" utopia. And DT will soon be telling us that it's just a confusing UI and surely not something done by default.

Anonymous DT May 06, 2016 6:54 PM  

@101 - Sounds like default settings to me.

I wish there was a web site that tried to cut through urban legends to find out the truth. Some place people could go when they hear a wild claim and don't have the expertise to know if it's true or false. Why won't somebody create something like that?

Apple didn't make the UI clear enough. They do not properly explain the options or the relationship between primary and secondary systems (in the service). Bad mistakes. And certainly reasons to be angry if you lost music.

It's also possible there's a bug leading to deleted files. There's no hard evidence yet (i.e. steps to replicate). But I wouldn't rule it out.

But the "Apple steals music / deletes files / wants to enslave you in a walled garden for the RIAA" meme is pure nonsense. Don't turn off your critical thinking skills just because you don't like something.

Blogger Were-Puppy May 06, 2016 6:58 PM  

@17 Nate
"Doesn't Amazon do this with Kindle, also?"

I don't believe so.

I still have a copy of John Scalzi is a Rapist. If ever there was a book they nuked... it was that one. And it stayed downloaded.
---

Confirmed - I see I still have a bunch of those -
John Scali is a Rapist
John Scalzi banned this book
John Scalzi is NOT a rapist

etc

Anonymous DT May 06, 2016 7:15 PM  

@104 - I do wonder why Apple is singled out.

I honestly think it has nothing to do with the SJW battle. It existed long before the term SJW existed.

With the introduction of Lisa and then Macintosh Apple tried to portray themselves as "different." GUI vs. CLI and closed vs. open hardware played into this. But it really comes down to Apple creating their own, separate PC market along with marketing themselves as the different, rebellious choice.

This was polarizing and generated extreme feelings (about a consumer product no less) on both sides. Both sides think they are better (or make the better choice), and both sides think the other side is full of "sheep."

Apple is arguably mainstream today yet still plays off the "think different" meme. And it's still polarizing.

I think it's all nonsense. Apple makes products I like and products I don't like. Apple does things I like (encryption; secure enclave; standing up to the FBI) and things I don't like (SJW nonsense; no "pro" mode on iOS that disables the walled garden).

As far as companies in the valley go, they actually have some guts on an important issue (end user privacy) which puts them ahead of a lot of others in my book. Including Google and Microsoft.

Regardless, I'm not going to turn off my brain when someone says "Apple did evil thing X!"

* Did X actually happen as described?

* Was Apple actually responsible for X?

* Was X intentional? Or a mistake that Apple is trying to fix?

OpenID luciussomesuch May 06, 2016 7:21 PM  

"Besides, Tim Cook is, and leads a company full of SJW's."

Correct.

he claims to have broken up a Klan rally when he was 12 years old... supposedly this happened not far from my house.

--And yet, he needed billions in f*** you money before he could afford to come out of the closet?

Quite a legend in his own mind.

Blogger Caedryn Stonelaw May 06, 2016 7:37 PM  

I would say this only adds to my paranoia of music and anime collections disappearing, but the reason why i have a network autistic backup, sync across devices, and DVD and blu-ray saves of my stuff is more due to the fact that i have a weird habit of adoring retardedly hard to find music. To give an example, I am the sole reason a 320 kbps version of the Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles english opening theme exists on the internet. I had to import a german press party release disc from a press contact I made through quake 2 ladders because it is the only instance of the song being recorded in full quality to consumable media. So when it comes to non sensitive files, ever since 2003, I usually make sure copies exist on the internet via seeding and pimping and at least 4 copies exist at home, with 2 of them being offline. Some day, some young weeb like me is going to benefit from my relentless paranoia. The one thing that could foil my plans is for my house to burn down at the same time the internet was nuked forever. But I think I'd enjoy the hunt again, personally.

Blogger Caedryn Stonelaw May 06, 2016 7:40 PM  

I should also mention the old programs are still the best. How is it that WinAmp is a better music management system, even with cellphones, than anything that's been updated in the last decade? Hell, its still the only program I know of that will natively play .pla files, even though that's how most programs sync playlists to your phone.

Blogger SirHamster May 06, 2016 7:57 PM  

DT wrote:@101 - Sounds like default settings to me.

I wish there was a web site that tried to cut through urban legends to find out the truth. Some place people could go when they hear a wild claim and don't have the expertise to know if it's true or false. Why won't somebody create something like that?


The Snopes article doesn't touch any of the technical details reported in the original blogpost.

1. Original music removed from computer
2. Alternate versions of songs replaced with the mainstream versions
3. 30 hours to recover songs from cloud server (lack of access to own music)
4. WAV songs converted into MP3/AAC

The Snopes article conclusion is:
"While it is true that some users have had files deleted when using Apple Music's match service, this was not deliberately done in order to "steal" your music. These file deletions likely occurred due to a mixture of user error, poor matching algorithms, and confusion over how Apple syncs and manages files."

Snopes status: MOSTLY FALSE

There's no debunking here. Citing Apple's stated belief in what their software does cannot negate an observed report of what it did. Speculation on the cause of behavior that was never examined is not even relevant.

Anonymous Rolf May 06, 2016 8:27 PM  

And people wonder why I have my own personal -LOCAL- backups and server, and don't want to move to Win10 which they made incompatible with the best server software MSFT ever put out for the home user. If the web or WiFi goes away, I might, just possibly, ya'know, still want my stuff.

If they even give you the OPTION of deleting and forever losing local stuff because they keep imperfect or converted copies, it's evil ransomeware to lock you into a forever contract. I do not own any apple products, never will, either, unless they are given to me and used for entertainment purposes only.

Orwell is sitting in the great beyond nodding his head and saying "precisely so. Behind schedule, but magnificently done."

Blogger Bob Loblaw May 06, 2016 8:44 PM  

he claims to have broken up a Klan rally when he was 12 years old... supposedly this happened not far from my house.

There are so few Klan members these days, this obsessing over a group that's been effectively dead for generations just seems weird to me. It's like worrying about Apache raiders showing up to sack your town.

Blogger Nate May 06, 2016 9:14 PM  

"There are so few Klan members these days, this obsessing over a group that's been effectively dead for generations just seems weird to me."

well... this was back in the 70s... and the Klan is still here. So its no implausible that he actually saw a Klan rally one night while riding his bike. What is laughable... is that he claims he yelled at them... and they all got scared and went home.

having actually seen a Klan rally myself... I will say... He's full of shit.

its fucking scary. If he saw one... he shit himself and ran like hell. If he did yell at them... they probably grabbed him and tied to a stake and made him watch... then took him home and left him tied up on the porch with a note for his daddy.

Anonymous Heh May 06, 2016 9:30 PM  

then took him home and left him tied up on the porch with a note for his daddy.

"Your son was out after curfew. Please make sure it doesn't happen again. Sincerely, the FBI"

Anonymous DT May 06, 2016 9:46 PM  

@112 - The Snopes article doesn't touch any of the technical details reported in the original blogpost.

There were no "technical details" in the blog post. There were claims of behavior with no steps to reproduce the behavior. For all you know Pinkstone lied for hits and giggles.

It is a point of fact that the software/service does not, as default intended behavior, delete or alter a user's music library. People who use or have tried the service have confirmed this. I can confirm this.

You CAN get in a situation where your music library is altered or deleted. But you have to choose specific options for it to happen.

I do not defend Apple's UI here. But not having enough big, red, flashing dialogs screaming ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO DO THIS? is a far cry from "stealing muh music."

As a side point: why in the hell would Pinkstone have a Mac but not use Time Machine? His music library should have been restored in minutes.

Citing Apple's stated belief in what their software does cannot negate an observed report of what it did.

You think "Apple's stated belief" is not based on both the source code and on observation of behavior in live testing? Really?

An 'observed report' that cannot be replicated is useless. We're giving Pinkstone the benefit of the doubt that something happened and his music was in fact deleted. Anyone could just as easily wave their hand and claim it never happened. That which is offered without proof can be dismissed without proof.

Rather than write an emotional blog post, what Pinkstone should have done is:

* Restored his music from Time Machine.

* Replicated the exact steps that led to music deletion.

* Posted a bug report that could be replicated, and forwarded the link to Apple.

The drama and hyperbole being thrown around simply because it's Apple's software is ridiculous.

Speculation on the cause of behavior that was never examined is not even relevant.

You have not examined the software at all, yet you feel free to speculate on its behavior.

Blogger Thucydides May 06, 2016 9:57 PM  

And we should not forget that the KKK was the shock arm of the Democrat Party in instituting the "Jim Crow" era of segregation after the Civil War.

Hey Tim, did you know you were attacking your own party when you "broke up" a KKK rally?

Blogger Akulkis May 06, 2016 10:22 PM  

Matthew Heaving Bosoms wrote:
>Nate wrote:
>>Matthew Heaving Bosoms:
>>> This is retarded, of course, but not sinister. It's a classic case of trying to guess what the user wants.

>> your naiveté' is fascinating.


> Alternatively, I'm actually knowledgeable in this field that you aren't.

--------------

If it were not sinister, it would have been changed by now. The very fact that the behavior persists despite YEARS of daily complaints is prima facia evidence that the behavior is both sinister and deliberately malicious. At this point, to argue otherwise demands evidence which is even stronger than this observable fact.

Mathew, just because you were tech support does NOT mean that you were privy to the business strategy meetings wherein it was decided to instruct the developers to design such behavior into the software, and especially not the "make the lusers helpless and so dependent upon us that they will continue to pay for the service even AFTER they don't want it any more, if for no other reason than to preserve access to their own files which we will deftly whisk away from them" discussion.

The essence of Apple died when Jobs drove EVERYONE not associated with the Macintosh out the door, including Wozniak.

Wozniak wanted power for the customer. Jobs has always cultivated helpless customers, and encouraged them to continue being helplessly trapped inside a gilded cage. Cook has merely decided to replace the normal wire with barbed wire and razor tape.

Blogger Akulkis May 06, 2016 10:27 PM  

Matthew

"Why back up when you can torrent?"


Uh...why torrent when you can have 96 db SNR backups?

Wow, you really are clueless. Most of the stuff on torrents is in godawful MP3 format, which, when reconstructed, sounds like absolute CRAP. The signal-to-noise ratio on MP3s is in the neighborhood of old wire recordings (which is absolute garbage compared to even 1st generation magnetic tape recording, and not even close to vinyl, let alone CD quality)

Blogger Akulkis May 06, 2016 10:28 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Akulkis May 06, 2016 11:00 PM  

@110

"The one thing that could foil my plans is for my house to burn down at the same time the internet was nuked forever. But I think I'd enjoy the hunt again, personally."

You have heard the term "off-site backups" have you not?

At a minimum, a building (garage, shed, barn) that's detached from the house. Preferably, a trusted friend's house. Added level of paranoia -- out-of-region backup -- after making backups, you send a copy of the backups to a friend (or responsible entity) in another region of the country... or on the other side of the Atlantic.

Blogger Akulkis May 06, 2016 11:04 PM  

@106

Anybody who trusts snopes when the rumor/accusation makes a leftwing entity look bad is an idiot.

When defending leftists and leftist-run organizations, Snopes frequently engages in "we couldn't find anything other than rumors which we could not confirm" and then uses the "absence of evidence is evidence of absence" fallacy.

Blogger Akulkis May 06, 2016 11:05 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous DT May 06, 2016 11:17 PM  

@122 - Anybody who trusts snopes when the rumor/accusation makes a leftwing entity look bad is an idiot.

1) Have you used the software?

2) If yes, did you have music altered or deleted?

3) If yes, do you have a list of steps that can be used to replicate the behavior?

These questions are also directed @112.

BTW, my answers are:
1) Yes.
2) No.
3) N/A since nothing was touched.

Which pretty much silences the "intentional" claim.

Blogger Akulkis May 06, 2016 11:43 PM  

You're the ONLY person claiming that it doesn't do what it's reported to do.

If what you are saying is the case, then it has the absolute WORST user interface for any GUI program. Apple PRIDES THEMSELVES on making good user interfaces, and NOT producing unexpected behavior. This has been the mantra for their development team for decades.

So, tell us, DT, why is this one WIDELY USED piece of software not compliant with the same rules that Apple insists that all of their other userland software conform to?

Even if it is, as you claim, a case of a person "clicking through a confirmation window" it's the absolute WORST default that could possibly chosen for the user, and the absolute BEST default that could possibly be chosen for a company which is corrupt and wants to put unwary users on a 1-way trap door.

Deleting and compressing into VERY lossy format, any unrecognized audio file, is, to put it mildly, criminal malfeasance.

Blogger Matthew Heaving Bosoms May 06, 2016 11:56 PM  

Akulkis, you are now my primary target for lulz.

Blogger Matthew Heaving Bosoms May 06, 2016 11:57 PM  

Fair warning. My IQ is almost certainly 30 points higher than yours.

Blogger Ingot9455 May 07, 2016 12:54 AM  

I can solve the Alkulis conundrum. I have said it here before.

The purpose of iTunes is to make it as easy as possible to spend money in the Apple Store.

Any other function it has, like playing music, or organizing lists of music, is incidental to the prime purpose.

iTunes has had a horrible user interface that breaks standard Apple rules for many years now, and it is because the user interface is designed to help you give them money, not to help you do anything effective.

Why do you think they let you download it for free?



Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 07, 2016 1:33 AM  

DT wrote:Apple didn't make the UI clear enough. They do not properly explain the options or the relationship between primary and secondary systems (in the service). Bad mistakes. And certainly reasons to be angry if you lost music.

having worked in tech support, and managed tech support organizations, I can say that any such behavior, if left in the software, is left in intentionally.
A primary driver of costs in the software business is tech support. Every bug or bit of confusion you can remove from the software makes it more profitable. Every competent organization (note, this does not necessarily include MS, but definitely does include Apple) Tracks support calls by issue and severity. A problem that causes people to demand a refund, uninstall your software, or cancel a subscription is severity 1 in the development priority queue.

Apple knows this is a problem, and that they are losing customers (and not just of their streaming service) because of it. If they have not fixed it, either it is;
1) so fundamental in the structure of the program that they can't, or
2) they believe it's more profitable to lose the customers who complain. Being purely a user interface problem, it's not option 1.

This "bad interface" is bad intentionally, not by mistake. Otherwise they would have changed it by now.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 07, 2016 1:54 AM  

Really Matthew?

Anonymous r May 07, 2016 2:35 AM  

The author should be talking to his attorney general, not blogging. The EULA is irrelevant if this is criminal, which it probably is under some ridiculously broad hacking law or other.

Anonymous DT May 07, 2016 3:00 AM  

@125 - You're the ONLY person claiming that it doesn't do what it's reported to do.

Are you kidding me? Try a Google search on the following: "does apple music delete music"

Or head to a forum of Mac users and ask.

BTW, if Apple said that was not intentional behavior and they were proven wrong, they could be liable regardless of the license agreement.

If what you are saying is the case, then it has the absolute WORST user interface for any GUI program.

Because all users are geniuses and take time to read and understand every message they see. Right?

I'll be the first to say Apple should make it more clear with more warnings. But that's because some people click and experiment without knowing what they're doing.

So, tell us, DT, why is this one WIDELY USED piece of software not compliant with the same rules that Apple insists that all of their other userland software conform to?

What rules are you referring to? Be specific in your answer. Apple's developer guidelines are published on their site, so citations should be easy.

While you're at it, please answer the questions I posed @124. One of the rules around here is that we are supposed to answer direct questions, is it not?

I'll gladly speculate as to why Apple broke one of their own rules...if indeed they did...but I would like answers to my questions.

Even if it is, as you claim, a case of a person "clicking through a confirmation window" it's the absolute WORST default that could possibly chosen for the user,

It's not a default. The default on the primary (or master) device is to NOT alter or delete the existing library.

...for a company which is corrupt and wants to put unwary users on a 1-way trap door.

All evidence to the contrary completely ignored because it's Apple.

Deleting and compressing into VERY lossy format, any unrecognized audio file, is, to put it mildly, criminal malfeasance.

Not if the user explicitly tells the program to do so.

Anonymous DT May 07, 2016 3:13 AM  

@112 - I thought I replied to this one but it doesn't look like it went through?

The original was longer but I don't feel like getting into it again. Suffice it to say:

* The Snopes article debunked the idea of deletion as default, intentional behavior.

* An "observed report" that cannot be replicated is near useless.

* Pinkstone did not give "technical details" that would allow replication.

* Apple's statement is not a "belief." They have the source code they developed along with notes from live testing. Absent strong evidence to the contrary, their "beliefs" about the behavior of their own code is court admissible fact.

Also: questions @124.

Anonymous Euro contracter May 07, 2016 3:35 AM  

That Apple design meeting must have been epic.

A: "How about ... we just silently replace the user's files with our own, better files? That would be awesome! And the user would save some local space."

B: "So helpful and magic. OK, but how do we know which file is which? Hmmm ... If they have the same name it should be okay, right?"

A: "Yeah! Let's roll, guys! I'm stoked!"

C: "Hey wait, shouldn't we take some basic precautions first? What if we're wrong or there's a bug? Add a dialog or option to backup first or something?"

B: "Nah. It's better to ask for forgiveness than permission."

Blogger SirHamster May 07, 2016 4:46 AM  

DT wrote:@112 - I thought I replied to this one but it doesn't look like it went through?

The original was longer but I don't feel like getting into it again. Suffice it to say:

* The Snopes article debunked the idea of deletion as default, intentional behavior.

* An "observed report" that cannot be replicated is near useless.

* Pinkstone did not give "technical details" that would allow replication.

* Apple's statement is not a "belief." They have the source code they developed along with notes from live testing. Absent strong evidence to the contrary, their "beliefs" about the behavior of their own code is court admissible fact.

Also: questions @124.


1. It debunked nothing.

WHAT'S FALSE: Apple is not "stealing" music from people's personal computers; the deletion of files was likely the result of user error or a problem with software.

2. Multiple reports. The call center lady noted they had many users upset over the same issue. Non-replication just means this is an Eisenbug. A hard to find bug is still a bug.

3. Replication is a red herring. Did the events Pinkstone describe occur or not? Your inability to replicate does not mean it did not happen as he observed it.

4. Don't care if it's a court admissable fact. Are you a lawyer? Do you know how to code?

Re 124: No, no, no.

Anonymous FrankNorman May 07, 2016 6:59 AM  

One of the marks of narcissistic people seems to be a lack of respect for anyone else's boundaries. Not seeing anything wrong with deleting someone's files without their permission would be an example of that.

The CEO types seeing the customers simply as things to get money from, and not as actual people with rights, is a big, obvious one.

Blogger James Dixon May 07, 2016 8:10 AM  

> Most of the stuff on torrents is in godawful MP3 format, which, when reconstructed, sounds like absolute CRAP.

Yeah, I hear that a lot. Most people can't really hear the difference or don't care.

For me personally, I mostly listen to music in my car while driving. With road noise and other traffic, I'm never going to notice the lack of quality of an mp3.

Blogger Markku May 07, 2016 12:32 PM  

Unless Matthew only torrents .flac files (like me), I cannot BELIEVE he would just torrent a random mp3 and call it a day. This makes me shudder.

Blogger Markku May 07, 2016 12:43 PM  

And his headphones cost over 200 dollars so he doesn't even have that excuse.

Every mp3 I have on my hard drive is ripped by me, using full cdparanoia, using lame enc, and with the variable VBR bitrate averaging around 250 kbit/s. The rest are flacs. If something were to run the mp3's through a second compression, I would delete the files. Mp3 works in such a way that compressing the music twice is much more destructive than you might imagine just from the bitrate.

Blogger Markku May 07, 2016 12:47 PM  

As a side note, the flac algorithm is just pure genius. Try polynomials randomly, select best fit, delta-encode the difference between the predicted sample based on the polynomial, and the actual sample. Absolutely 100% guaranteed to be lossless, but incredible savings in space.

So beautiful.

Blogger FCRFCDRTCDR May 07, 2016 12:55 PM  

The socialist are making their ultimate mover to corrupt america. You need to do this now http://infowars.com/theendtimes87

Anonymous BGKB May 07, 2016 1:04 PM  

he claims to have broken up a Klan rally when he was 12 years old... supposedly this happened not far from my house.

Gays that dated blacks claimed credit for being instrumental in bringing down South Africa. In Fact Timmy Cook said he yelled at SA and apartheid broke up.

Blogger Matthew Heaving Bosoms May 07, 2016 1:20 PM  

Markku wrote:Unless Matthew only torrents .flac files (like me), I cannot BELIEVE he would just torrent a random mp3 and call it a day. This makes me shudder.

I tried being an audiophile once.

Blogger Markku May 07, 2016 1:26 PM  

I, on the other hand, grew into it. I fully understand that there is a theoretical possibility that I have deluded myself to think there is a difference and I have seen arguments to that effect. Even sciencey-sounding ones.

And I have concluded they are bunk. But even on the off chance that they aren't, I know I have all my music in high enough quality master files that, should the mp3 format ever go out of vogue, I could re-encode everything I have _once_ to the new de facto format, and still have it in near-audiophile quality.

Blogger Markku May 07, 2016 1:28 PM  

But if someone tries to claim that you can't tell a difference even with the lossles file, and a 128-160 kbit mp3 that is encoded with some of the older Fraunhofer libraries, then I will simply laugh in their face.

Blogger Aeoli Pera May 07, 2016 3:11 PM  

I don't know why anyone would trust Pellucid when every posthuman worth a damn knows it was corrupted by Exarchel eons ago.

Also the audio loses quality when the self-replicating nanocrystals are compressed in the center of the earth. That's why I only listen to reproductions performed by sophonts I bred myeself for this exact purpose over millions of years.

#AuthenticAndMostSigma

Anonymous DT May 07, 2016 4:58 PM  

@136 - 1. It debunked nothing.

It debunked the idea that what happened to Pinkstone was intentional default behavior.

2. Multiple reports. The call center lady noted they had many users upset over the same issue. Non-replication just means this is an Eisenbug. A hard to find bug is still a bug.

I've said from the beginning that this could be due to user error or a bug. I would put odds on user error, with the caveat that due to the potential for damage Apple should issue clearer instructions and better warnings. But in either case it is not "working as intended."

If you concur that it is not default intentional behavior then we have nothing left to debate.

3. Replication is a red herring.

So Pinkstone can make any claim he wants and you will believe it with zero evidence? What if he claims you broke into his home and deleted his music?

Did the events Pinkstone describe occur or not?

We actually have zero evidence that they occurred at all, much less occurred as he described.

With that clear, I give Pinkstone the benefit of the doubt. I believe something went wrong and he lost files. And I believe it has happened to others as well.

But his claims regarding the nature and extent of the problem are clearly falsified at this point. As are various speculations that Apple did it on purpose.

4. Don't care if it's a court admissable fact. Are you a lawyer? Do you know how to code?

No. Yes, in 8 languages and assembly for two processor architectures.

Re 124: No, no, no.

You've seen my answers. Is my testimony worth anything? Or just Pinkstone's?

Blogger James Dixon May 07, 2016 10:31 PM  

> But if someone tries to claim that you can't tell a difference even with the lossles file, and a 128-160 kbit mp3 that is encoded with some of the older Fraunhofer libraries,

Markku, I could get copies of my most recent hearing tests and show you the drop off curve. Believe me, if I'm driving in my car, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

At home in front of my stereo system? That's another matter.

Blogger James Dixon May 07, 2016 11:22 PM  

> But his claims regarding the nature and extent of the problem are clearly falsified at this point.

Incorrect understanding of what happened is not the same as falsified.

Blogger SirHamster May 07, 2016 11:50 PM  

DT wrote:

We actually have zero evidence that they occurred at all, much less occurred as he described.

...

You've seen my answers. Is my testimony worth anything? Or just Pinkstone's?


Whether you do not or will not understand what evidence is, I don't care.

Blogger Markku May 08, 2016 8:46 AM  

Markku, I could get copies of my most recent hearing tests and show you the drop off curve. Believe me, if I'm driving in my car, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

I meant "you" in general. An audiophile in a blind-test, using the equipment of his choice. With newest libraries and average bitrate over 200, I'd believe the claim that he couldn't. With obsolete Fraunhofer libraries and 160kbit or less, he absolutely could. Probably in the first few seconds.

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