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Thursday, June 16, 2016

Self-destructive ideologies

Most people understand that communism contains within itself the seeds of its own destruction. The same is now obviously true of feminism. What is remarkable is that Steve Sailer grasped that this was also true of American conservatism as long as 12 years ago:
As a native Los Angeleno, Northern Californian snobbishness has always gotten on my nerves. Nonetheless, the payoff has become undeniable. Rather than being inundated with unskilled immigrants from one country, Northern California mainly attracts skilled immigrants from a wide diversity of countries.

The lesson for the GOP is sobering. If it won’t fight to enforce immigration laws on the national level, citizens will try to parry the effects at the local level.

And the socially acceptable way to keep out swarms of poor immigrants is the Northern Californian liberal way: environmentalism, unionism, historical preservationism, NIMBYism—indeed, the whole panoply of Democratic Party policies at the state and local level.
There are a number of structural flaws in conservatism, but the fatal one has proved to be the embrace of the Proposition Nation mythology. In the same way that communism destroys personal initiative and feminism destroys reproductive rates, conservatism destroys the ability of a nation or even a community to sustain and preserve itself.

The #AltRight may or may not replace conservatism as the primary challenge to the Left in America, but we already know that conservatism was destined to fail. It doomed itself to failure as soon as it embraced the "equality of opportunity" concept, which inevitably led to the doctrine of accepting "hard-working immigrants".

Those who argue that because DNA is not 100 percent determinative, it is irrelevant, are failing to grasp that in this regard DNA is a necessary factor, though it is not, in itself, a sufficient one. And while I welcome disagreement, do try to avoid putting on a clownish demonstration of how you are limited to binary thinking. That's not criticism, that's just embarrassing.

UPDATE: WF has an intriguing thought:
Evil is always ultimately self-destructive, suggesting the latter, when found in a system, likely indicates the former. In other words, if a system  (ideology, structure, philosophy, individual, or thought) contains within it the seeds of contradiction, be it internal or external, or systemic collapse, it's a good bet it is against God and therefore evil. This is just as true for individuals with unresolved or incorrectly resolved cognitive dissonance, for example.

This is because God is both real and Creator of reality, and all that is in conflict with reality is necessarily in conflict with Him, too.

Labels: , ,

188 Comments:

Anonymous Clay June 16, 2016 4:39 AM  

So, VD. I agree with you.

BUT. What is the failure of Conservatism to morph to?

Anonymous Hilary June 16, 2016 4:44 AM  

Give it a name, Obama. So, I'll know what to call it...

Anonymous jon June 16, 2016 4:52 AM  

OT, but I thought people here might appreciate it because it combines two popular topics - Trump and weird Japanese culture.
Behold, the Japanese Trump commercial:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbM6WbUw7Bs

Anonymous Alice De Goon June 16, 2016 5:16 AM  

'S fake. If you look at the credits it was made by Westerners, presumably as a sly jab against Trump. I think it will backfire though, the way most liberal memes backfire these days. Half of the comments in the comment section are pro-Trumpers getting fired up and declaring that this commercial has made them love Trump even more.

Lord, please continue to make our enemies complete morons...

Blogger Phillip George June 16, 2016 5:41 AM  

The problem is that any and all identities are destroyed, sucked into a crusher called "egality, fraternity, liberty" - such are the platitudes of the millenium. It was to be the glorious new age of reason, secularism and science.

It turned out to be intellectual fairy floss, cotton candy.

Platitudes mean genuine and real differences are relegated to a falsehood. An unreality has descended and become the impenetrable miasma.

DNA is down a long list of differences that truly matter.

Blinded by science, crushed by relativism, sucked into the memory hole of platitudes.

There is only one way to build. Infinity indestructible begins with Jesus. cheers. {thanks for the fish}

Blogger VD June 16, 2016 5:46 AM  

DNA is down a long list of differences that truly matter.

No, it is not. Because it determines both intelligence and time-preferences, it is absolutely vital and is a primary factor in determining what sort of society you will have.

And the answer is to 2+2 is not "Jesus". Stop blathering. You say the same thing over and over again, to absolutely no avail.

Blogger residentMoron June 16, 2016 5:52 AM  

The thing about the California liberalism is also interesting because it is so blatantly fake. The SJW faction wants to pretend to this almighty tolerance but without having to actually tolerate anyone different from themselves.

It's a lot like the alleged austerity budgets after the recent financial crisis. There it was "austerity for thee but not for me" and in this case it is "diverse for thee but not for me".

Demonstrating once more, for any who needed it, that:

SJWs Always Lie.

Blogger Lovekraft June 16, 2016 5:55 AM  

Follow-up to an earlier observation that the alt-right will not be able to (in its current format) go up against the SJW brownshirts and the glitterati machine.

Perhaps this is unnecessary and to let these beasts fail on their own. Our movement is comprised of plenty of wisdom and experience. This could be a weakness but also a great appeal to those tired of the lies and superficiality.

We could either try to create a cross-network, keeping the alt-right as a guide, support as well as a major deterrent to the brownshirts (our fighting ability is well-known), or remain on the frontline, wearing down in fighting sjw-infested orgs.

My prediction is of the former, as other groups begin to turn away from socialist totalitarianism. If Hindus, Hans etc want to keep from being grouped in with jihad or sjws, they will look to us.

Blogger Nick Siekierski June 16, 2016 5:55 AM  

I don't know if I'd call the Nor Cal way successful. I spent most of the first 30 years of my life there. They don't have the numbers like LA does, but there are still hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens in the immediate San Francisco Bay Area and more in the surrounding areas. San Jose alone where the worst anti-Trump supporter violence occured may have 200,000 or more. I suppose it can be considered a success if you are a leftist techie and don't mind sharing your posh Palo Alto neighbrohood with Indian and Chinese neighbors who want nothing to do with your culture.

Blogger Phillip George June 16, 2016 5:58 AM  

your challenge then is simple. Take any baby's genetic sequence and make useful predictions. From cancer incidence to SAT scores. The twin experiments, observations, suggest it can't be done.
\\
of course to run this as a double blind experiment you won't know any information about ethnicity.

Anonymous Eric the Red June 16, 2016 6:05 AM  

The premise about Northern CA seems contrived, and his reasoning seem strained. Oakland has been a black blight for ages. Now the Central Valley is awash in Mexicans. None of that is doing anything to keep out the riff-raff.

Blogger Salt June 16, 2016 6:13 AM  

embraced the "equality of opportunity" concept, which inevitably led to the doctrine of accepting "hard-working immigrants".

Seems a bit more the twisted Orwellian form of equality of outcome, the accepting of mass quantities of "hard-working immigrants". Outcome is the opportunity.

Blogger VD June 16, 2016 6:16 AM  

your challenge then is simple. Take any baby's genetic sequence and make useful predictions. From cancer incidence to SAT scores. The twin experiments, observations, suggest it can't be done.

Just stop. You're embarrassing yourself. The fact that it can't be done on an individual basis does not mean it can't be done to the average level that is sufficient for constructing macro-societal policies.

You can't tell what a baby's IQ will be from its DNA profile, but you can tell what the average IQ of 1,000 babies with similar genetic profiles will be with a great degree of accuracy. And that's exactly what you need for formulating public policy, you do not require every single individual's IQ.

You're in way over your head here. So stop trying to lecture your intellectual superiors.

Blogger Atomic Agent 13 June 16, 2016 6:17 AM  

"Equality of opportunity" and the selfishness of objectivism thrown in, made it even less appealing as time went on. Some of us embraced it because it seemed to be the only reasonably reaction to the left.

Anonymous Cheddarman June 16, 2016 6:21 AM  

The only people that belive in America as a propositional nation imo are deluded whites. The Chinese, Indians and Mexicans are here for the paycheck. They don't seem all that interested in building a nation of ideas and brotherhood across cultural lines. The fact that they prefer to live with their own kind whenever possible suggests that they don't buy into the proposition.

Blogger Atomic Agent 13 June 16, 2016 6:24 AM  

"Evil is always ultimately self-destructive, suggesting the latter, when found in a system, likely indicates the former."

The devil himself is our greatest example of that.

Blogger Doom June 16, 2016 6:30 AM  

WF's point was already on my mind before I got to it. The problem, however, is that while there is better, and there is worse, all fail. All, over time, are or become self-destructive. It is the basis of sin, of which none can part from within this life. One can suffer better, or worse, with their struggle, but none can win.

All good. All I am saying is that your measure, or his(?), is no less impossible. Do you have a better plan, does alt-right? Honestly, I think it might. The odds are not good, however. At best, as with conservativism, which isn't actually even that old in American politics... or the... new world version... often called liberal elsewhere... Where was I? Oh, right. Any new system is just as likely, and probably more likely, to fail and as quickly or more so.

The best that can be done, with a body, with a home, with an automobile, with a body politic, is an occasional major or minor effort... at great expense, often with little more than a few more miles taken off the odometer. All I am saying is, from Trump, from the alt-right, from me, from you... don't expect a whole lot. No matter if the house is burning down, people like their burning houses and many would choose to stay anyway. Still, worth some shots.

Blogger Atomic Agent 13 June 16, 2016 6:30 AM  

@15 Mexicans are certainly interested in nation building within a nation, their ideology cuts across self serving cultural lines not religious.

Asians I've heard are more eager to assimilate, which seems true from what I've seen, or at least they don't have the open hostility towards the U.S. as we've seen in La Raza.

Anonymous Cheddarman June 16, 2016 6:37 AM  

Lovekraft the Altright is in its infancy. It is gaining ground with young whites below the age of 30 who are beginning to see that they are systematically being disenfranchised and are 2nd class citizens in a nation their forefathers built from a wilderness. They will be the ones who will take over the movement as it matures, and fight the left in street battles if it comes to that. Besides, the left will fracture along ethnic lines. The Hispanics, blacks, etc. and other minorities only have a use for white sjws as a means to an end, that of obtaining power. I am surprised that the black lives matter rabble have not killed any white sjws yet.

Blogger Phillip George June 16, 2016 6:37 AM  

no I can't prove it here, but I suggest, "similar genetic profiles" is based on the sampler's understanding on sourcing and not on actual observed variation.

\quote: There are no characteristics, no traits, not even one gene that distinguish all members of one so-called race from all members of another race.

so let me run away an hide from all this embarrassment. cheers. again, thanks for the fish

Blogger VD June 16, 2016 6:42 AM  

I can't prove it here, but I suggest, "similar genetic profiles" is based on the sampler's understanding on sourcing and not on actual observed variation.

That is absolutely false. Race is easily determined by DNA, though not by a single gene. The fact that it requires a set of genes doesn't help your case in the slightest.

Anonymous Cheddarman June 16, 2016 6:48 AM  

Doom, we're you by chance a cheerleader in high school or college? You see to radiate an infectious optimism.

Blogger Phillip George June 16, 2016 6:55 AM  

You know of course, that every poster here, based on DNA from the Mitochondria, shares one single grand mother who lived less than 200,000 years ago. thanks Cousin. Rates of divergence present the greatest mystery of them all. but, i'm tired. UTC plus 10 and all, its winter down here.

Blogger VD June 16, 2016 7:07 AM  

You know of course, that every poster here, based on DNA from the Mitochondria, shares one single grand mother who lived less than 200,000 years ago

That's totally irrelevant. Go try to launch satellites with 80-IQ aboriginals and see how far you get. Or try to build a national infrastructure for a people with immediate time preferences. Again, you are way out of your league here.

Blogger Stilicho June 16, 2016 7:14 AM  

Well, Phillip has told us that you just can't trust your lyin' eyes. Because Science!

Blogger FALPhil June 16, 2016 7:16 AM  

@18 Atomic Agent 13
Asians I've heard are more eager to assimilate...

I don't know about that. There is a very large South Korean ex-pat community in my school district. They tend to be rather tight, socially. Although they are sprinkled throughout the suburban neighborhoods, they all go to the same huge Korean Presbyterian church, they hire each other for services, speak Korean in the home, and pool their money to help each other go into business. I also have a Japanese next door neighbor who is a country manager for his firm. In 10 years, I have seen the guy half a dozen times, and that was when he was putting his golf clubs in his car on Saturday morning. His wife speaks very little English. His daughter went to high school with my daughter and attended college in the USA, but upon graduation, went back to Japan and married a Japanese man.

I am on good terms with a couple of the Korean businessmen in my community, but I could never call them friends.

Anonymous clay June 16, 2016 7:19 AM  

No. I Don't know that, Phillip George.

My blood is not some Nigerian crap.

Blogger Phillip George June 16, 2016 7:19 AM  

There are no traits, no characteristics, not even one gene that is present in all members of one so-called race and absent in another. The A, B, and O blood groups can be found in all the world's peoples (the percentage of Estonians and Papua New Guineans with A, B, and O blood are almost exactly identical). Skin color tends to correlate with the earth's geographic latitude not race; sub-Saharan Africans, the Dravidians and Tamils of southern Asia, and Melanesians from the Pacific all have very dark skin. Ancestry is difficult to trace; we all have two parents, four grandparents, etc. If you could trace your family back 30 generations, slightly more than 1,000 years, you'd find one billion ancestors.

the corollary is if only about a billion people were on Earth a thousand years ago, simply everyone of us is expected to be related with varying degrees of divergence based on inbreeding.]\]

and, here's the bit I love and live, my bible told me so. For Mr Rational, if he's here today, that is called corroboration with empirical data.

'can I explain why some people look dumber than others. When a EMP goes off next week I'd rather be with dumbies who can hunt real gooooooood.
\
\yes l'm laughing, it fits me.

Blogger MATT June 16, 2016 7:37 AM  

Why not align yourself with smarties who can hunt real good?

Blogger Aeoli Pera June 16, 2016 7:37 AM  

Phillip thinks genes don't affect intelligence because he has the DNA of a rhesus monkey.

Blogger Aeoli Pera June 16, 2016 7:38 AM  

Not to imply that rhesus monkeys have low intelligence, everybody knows SCIENCE says species don't even exist.

Anonymous clay June 16, 2016 7:41 AM  

This has got to be a joke.

Phillip George...feel free to enlighten me as to your genius as far as racial genius is concerned.

Hell. Let's Play Jeopardy! You as a question about general subjects, and I will too.

Blogger rumpole5 June 16, 2016 7:43 AM  

Any chance that there might be a tech fix for this? At the rate medical research is moving, along with computational and robotic advancement, and nanotechnologic advancement, we may soon be able to remediate low IQ and character pathology with a cyborg device.

Moreover, if Mango Munchuria, and Bang the Dish had robots to maintain everything, wouldn't conditions improve anyway, even with low IQ?

Anonymous Clay June 16, 2016 7:44 AM  

"Not Being Able To Type", is first.

Blogger John Rampton June 16, 2016 7:47 AM  

What on earth? Each one of us don't have separate, distinct sets of parents. Many of us shared parents with other siblings and so forth.

Blogger John Rampton June 16, 2016 7:47 AM  

What on earth? Each one of us don't have separate, distinct sets of parents. Many of us shared parents with other siblings and so forth.

Blogger FALPhil June 16, 2016 7:57 AM  

@28 Philip George
When a EMP goes off next week I'd rather be with dumbies who can hunt real gooooooood.

You'll starve. Hunting is my passion, and the most successful hunters I know are not the dummies, but very smart people - physicians, scientists, and C-level executives. The dummies do well when game is plentiful, but the smart hunters do well when it is not.

Anonymous Manolito June 16, 2016 7:57 AM  

Too bad comments degenrate into a DNA flamewar isntead of discussing of the main topic of the article, conservatives' internal contradictions. My view is that conservative failure is not ideological (it is a very sound ideology) but political.

Community leaders must stand up for their community. Conservative RINOs never stood up for the middle class whites. For all its flaws, the left is very good at defending its own kin, and NIMBYism is an admirable example of the impressive practical skills, from grassroots left politicans. Those bastards found a way to praise diversity, in words and actions, while still defending their whitey proggies SJW.

Blogger Salt June 16, 2016 7:58 AM  

Phillip George and the six degrees of Kevin Bacon.

Blogger Gaiseric June 16, 2016 8:00 AM  

Manolito wrote:Too bad comments degenrate into a DNA flamewar isntead of discussing of the main topic of the article, conservatives' internal contradictions. My view is that conservative failure is not ideological (it is a very sound ideology) but political.
When open borders, "free" trade and multinational global communities are part of the ideology, then yes—the failure is ideological.

Blogger dc.sunsets June 16, 2016 8:03 AM  

You definitely can predict a baby's IQ and even political views by examining those of his parents & grandparents.

For someone to suggest physical, mental & behavioral characteristics are not inherited (and assort heavily by recent ancestry) is leftist style magical thinking.

Anonymous Quartermaster June 16, 2016 8:07 AM  

@19
"I am surprised that the black lives matter rabble have not killed any white sjws yet."

Give 'em time. They're going to and their liberalism won't protect them anymore than a Nigerian's JuJu protects them from bullets.

Blogger Stilicho June 16, 2016 8:14 AM  

That's the point: Phillip's magical thinking contains the seeds of his own destruction being anti-God or anti-reality much like WF described.

Blogger dc.sunsets June 16, 2016 8:15 AM  

1. Good data on Human Bio Diversity is here https://jaymans.wordpress.com/hbd-fundamentals/

2. Evil arises in proportion to the insistence of spreading a mismatch between insight & nature.

Objective reality exists, but people usually try to adhere to a mental construct that diverges from it (incremental insanity.) We are witnessing what happens when such insanity is spread like a pathological virus and backed by the collective coercion of politics.

Anonymous Clay June 16, 2016 8:15 AM  

No. Perhaps sucking dicks, and spreading his cheeks will serve him, Phillip George, well.

Blogger Gaiseric June 16, 2016 8:17 AM  

Salt wrote:Phillip George and the six degrees of Kevin Bacon.
He's managed to find a scientific article, but is selectively quoting it without understanding its implications or its context. He's also assuming a theoretical generality can be extrapolated into a specific. I don't have any recent shared ancestry (for values of recent that are thousands of years long, at least) with any Melanesians or Australian aborigines, and even if I did, their genetic contribution to who I am is too negligible to mean anything at all. The fact that everyone has billions of ancestors doesn't matter, because there is a great degree of folding of the family trees; i.e., if you could actually populate it back far enough, you'd see the same individuals popping up in more than one spot eventually. It doesn't mean that you literally have to sweep up every individual on Earth to make the numbers.

I've long thought that Phillip George is actually a bot that posts randomly generated text with a vaguely Christian slant, given his consistent incoherence and lack relevance to whatever topic he's posting under. But there is a germ of something there, even if he hasn't the wit to really see it or articulate it himself. From a practical standpoint of living in the world, your genetics absolutely do matter. From a spiritual standpoint, of course, the gospel is for everyone, and everyone who repents and comes unto Christ has the same spiritual value. Or rather, they have the same potential reward. In the parable of the talents, God made no distinction between the guy who turned five talents into ten, and the guy who turned two talents into four. Both got literally the exact same reward, expressed word for word exactly the same.

To extrapolate from that spiritual point that there's no such thing as race and that DNA isn't important is, however, stupid beyond all reason.

Blogger Rusty Fife June 16, 2016 8:26 AM  

Phillip George wrote:your challenge then is simple. Take any baby's genetic sequence and make useful predictions. From cancer incidence to SAT scores. The twin experiments, observations, suggest it can't be done.

\\

of course to run this as a double blind experiment you won't know any information about ethnicity.


Here is your counter challenge:
- select any pit bull terrier
- train her to pass the retreiver UKC finished hunt test

Apparently personality, drive, and intelligence have nothing to do with breeding.

Blogger Rick June 16, 2016 8:27 AM  

DNA is something, but it is not everything. We may not be suggesting it is everything but we could easily fall into that trap and make an idol of it of sorts. Such as scientism does and Darwinism which rely on a great deal of imagination and magic powers and mysterious lightening bolts carrying life and doing the heavy lifting.
We know a great deal about DNA, but I say we know not nearly all about it. Or it does not make up as much as what makes up a person as we may like to think. How could it? There is still the soul and the spirit and the will and faith which Christ seemed very interested in.
The races should stay where they are and let Christianity go to them. Christ went to the blind and the lepers and so on, and so did the apostles.

Blogger Lucas June 16, 2016 8:31 AM  

WF is spot on. What I came to realise is that any ideology that is against Christ, sooner or later will reveal itself as evil.

Anonymous Clay June 16, 2016 8:32 AM  

If I was to call a VPL Grand Jury, and have witnesses to find the LGBT Phillip George, is it possible to send him/it to internet prison?

Blogger Gaiseric June 16, 2016 8:36 AM  

Rick wrote:DNA is something, but it is not everything. We may not be suggesting it is everything but we could easily fall into that trap and make an idol of it of sorts. Such as scientism does and Darwinism which rely on a great deal of imagination and magic powers and mysterious lightening bolts carrying life and doing the heavy lifting.
It's amazing to me how often demographic trends and statistics are hand-waved away as irrelevant because of "muh anecdotes". It's a form of applied solipsism; "I can't really believe anything that I don't personally witness myself."

Yes, nobody believes that HBD is a kind of genetic Calvinism with predestination for any given individual. We have all been given the ability by God to choose to reject our own personal natural man, but each of us has our own natural man, and each individual's natural man is largely driven by his genetics.

Blogger tz June 16, 2016 8:45 AM  

Interest rates are determined in a free market by time preference.
Yet even before central banking, interest rates would change.
DNA is not merely genetics but epigenetics including the r/K switch.

But even so, there is a difference between southern Europe and northern Europe in IQ and TP.

Blogger Rick June 16, 2016 8:48 AM  

I did not say they were irrelevant. You have comprehension problems. And you've proven my point.

Anonymous Spartacus xxxxx June 16, 2016 8:48 AM  

Phillip George wrote:You know of course, that every poster here, based on DNA from the Mitochondria, shares one single grand mother who lived less than 200,000 years ago.

No we don't know of course. That "you know" relies on several untestable assumptions, faulty theory, and statistical game. Notice Mitochondrial Eve is not trumpeted quite like it used to be. Too many issues- constructing a durable phylogenetic tree has not been possible, the "molecular clock" idea is a fantasy, hybridization with other hominid (hominin in the current Narrative) species, Y chromosome research shows there is no "Adam' for "Eve", and. It's simple to find counterarguments these days, just add "fraud'" or "wrong" or "false" to your search string, you know.

Blogger Gaiseric June 16, 2016 8:50 AM  

Rick wrote:I did not say they were irrelevant. You have comprehension problems. And you've proven my point.
Sigh. No, I've used your post as a springboard to point out a trend in the posts here on HBD related discussions. Don't take it personal.

Blogger Earl June 16, 2016 8:51 AM  

"so let me run away an hide from all this embarrassment. cheers."
[Posts again a few minutes later]
"UTC plus 10 and all, its winter down here."
[Posts again a few minutes later]

Is there a good name for this debate tactic? I see it all the time. Strange behavior.

Anonymous Athor Pel June 16, 2016 8:54 AM  

Going by some of the comments from yesterday, some folks seem to be hung up on Satan's kingdom being divided against itself with a muslim shooter going after gay club goers. When Jesus was refuting the Pharisee's charge that He was casting out demons in the name of Beelzebub he said that a kingdom cannot stand that is divided against itself. This was in the context of spirits inhabiting human hosts not in the context of earthly kingdoms or ideologies being in opposition.

Satan's goal is to drag as many humans into sharing the same judgement given to him. There are no humans on his side in his mind. All humans are puppets to him, like so much tissue paper, they serve a goal and that goal is not in us human's best interests. This is why all of the earthly -isms we talk about here are self destructive by design.

Think on this. If Satan wants to insure a particular outcome he will use those tools he most closely controls. The most closely controlled humans are those most in slavery to their sins.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 16, 2016 8:55 AM  

Magic Dirt, Magic Borders, Magic Parchment they are all in the end embarrassing.

At that activist site oildrum.com I asked the resident SJW if they actually believed in the Blank Slate Theory, mumbles, they know they are a joke.

Feminine minds spewing whatever is handy to gain social dominance in the now and here, shit test society wide.

They are a joke that people like George Will are paid large sums of money to pretend are serious people

Blogger Rick June 16, 2016 9:04 AM  

My mistake, Gaiseric.

Anonymous andon June 16, 2016 9:05 AM  

usually I agree with Steve Sailer but...

As a native Los Angeleno, Northern Californian snobbishness has always gotten on my nerves. Nonetheless, the payoff has become undeniable. Rather than being inundated with unskilled immigrants from one country, Northern California mainly attracts skilled immigrants from a wide diversity of countries.

I live in Sacramento and I don't see these "skilled immigrants from a wide diversity of countries" its mostly the same low IQ high violence brwn trds and they seem to be about half the population. as for "Northern California snobbishness"?? he must be talking about the SF Bay area because anything north of Sacramento is rural and very conservative (wishes to secede as 'state of Jefferson' iirc) and Sacramento itself has been called a "hick town" or "cow town" by Phil Jackson, former coach of LA Lakers.

And the socially acceptable way to keep out swarms of poor immigrants is the Northern Californian liberal way: environmentalism, unionism, historical preservationism, NIMBYism—indeed, the whole panoply of Democratic Party policies at the state and local level. if this is the strategy its not working. also, I might point out that the Sierra Club sold out on illegal immigration decades ago. I think the price was $10 million or so.

Blogger Rick June 16, 2016 9:06 AM  

You forgot Magic DNA.

Anonymous Athor Pel June 16, 2016 9:06 AM  

"33. Blogger rumpole5 June 16, 2016 7:43 AM
Any chance that there might be a tech fix for this? At the rate medical research is moving, along with computational and robotic advancement, and nanotechnologic advancement, we may soon be able to remediate low IQ and character pathology with a cyborg device.
..."


So your solution is a computer in the brain. That's great. Think about who writes the code that runs that computer. Think what their motivations will be. They won't be your motivations, nor will they be mine.

Whoever writes that code will control, not influence, control every brain that gets the computer implant. If you lament how much attention is taken with cell phones and social media you will be positively amazed at the personality change for the people getting the implant. They won't be humans any more. Cyborg is the nice label for them. Monster will be more accurate.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler June 16, 2016 9:07 AM  

Vox, There are a number of structural flaws in conservatism, but the fatal one has proved to be the embrace of the Proposition Nation mythology.

Structural flaws in "conservatism"? Which type are you talking about? Continental Conservatism which is about preserving Throne and Altar, Christendom? or Anglo-sphere Conservatism which is liberalism?

Quote: The problem is that so-called ‘conservatives’ in the Anglo-sphere, England, Canada, America, Australia, New Zealand, are liberals. The term ‘conservative’ in the Anglo-sphere means liberal. (Lichtheim, 258; Russell quoted by Schapiro, p. 21) Endquote.

Reference: (Schapiro, p. 204) “[Benjamin] Disraeli [from a Marrano {Jewish} family that emigrated from Spain due to the Inquisition] developed a concept of conservatism that was dynamic, not static. English conservatives were to be in the vanguard of progress by becoming the champions of reforms far more radical than those advocated by the liberals.” The term “conservative” was completely rewritten by Disraeli who held a seat in the English Parliament! He was quite influential. It is he is the founder of Anglo-sphere ideology of “conservatism”.

There is a distinction between Continental Conservatism and Anglo-Sphere Conservatism. I'm a Continental Conservative, For Throne and Altar, for preserving Western Culture and Western Civilization, i.e. Christendom. There are no structural flaws in Continental Conservatism because the Old Order, which is the Natural Order is based on the Natural Law. I am in conformity with the Logos of the Cosmos. As a Spartan, I am in obedience to the Logos of Divine Revelation and the Logos of the Cosmos, Jesus Christ. I conserve the Old Order. I am a Continental Conservative.

Blogger tz June 16, 2016 9:07 AM  

Peter Kreeft in a lecture about Evil from Lord of the Rings says evil defeats itself like a self-contradictory statement.

The DNA Calvinism implies we have lost.

One aspect is the average includes women. Smart women become feminists, not mothers as they tend to the leftist sweet spot around 120 IQ. Babies (K-sel) need a high time preference from women. The logic between a socialist state and a husband is clear, the state is more reliable while it lasts and can provide day-care.

The problem is not the 80 IQ aborigines won't make rockets, its that the 120 IQ women won't make babies.

Blogger tz June 16, 2016 9:08 AM  

@61, or read Abolition of Man

Blogger Gaiseric June 16, 2016 9:09 AM  

Rick wrote:My mistake, Gaiseric.
No prob. I shoulda seen that one coming, actually.

Blogger Rusty Fife June 16, 2016 9:11 AM  

@61 Athor Pel

Agreed. How is this not destructive to each race's unique culture? Sure, there are a few places that need another 1,000 years to adapt to the modern world; but their individual adaption shouldn't be constrained by mind control.

Blogger Gaiseric June 16, 2016 9:13 AM  

@62: Don't be absurd. The Old Testament could largely be reduced to an allegory on the structural flaws of reliance on throne and altar. It's by far the single most dominant, oft-repeated message.

Blogger The Observer June 16, 2016 9:20 AM  

@63:

One of the possible outcomes, if left alone long enough, is more extreme dimorphism of intelligence by sex. We already have longer tails and a 1-2 point average shift for men. Given even a 5-point shift in means, the effects would be quite noticeable.

Who's to say it can't happen? The groundwork is already there, and numerous species in nature are extremely dimorphous mentally. After all, it only took 10 generations of foxes in the Russian Fox Experiment to turn them from wild things into house pets.

Similarly, remember that it's only until recently that people didn't need to like kids to perpetuate themselves - they only needed to like sex. The future, hence, will be filled with people who like kids and don't commit wanton infanticide.

Blogger Student in Blue June 16, 2016 9:23 AM  

@Gaiseric
It's by far the single most dominant, oft-repeated message.

Well, I'd call it a tie between that, and the message of "I have given you Laws to follow to be saved, like you've begged over and over, and you've failed utterly at them over and over. Let's try Grace instead with the Messiah, because that doesn't depend on you numbnuts being able resist sin."

Blogger Gaiseric June 16, 2016 9:36 AM  

Speaking of HBD, self-destructive ideologies, and American cuckservatism, or maybe (((American cuckservatism))) I should say, here's an interesting aside. Curious about Vox's claim that the Ashkenazi Jews are 80% north Italian by genetics, I found the original source of that claim; a paper published in Nature in 2013. However, the study only determined the Mitochondrial DNA, not the Y-chromosomal DNA. What this means is that it is not 80% of the genetics of the Ashkenazim are Italian, it means over 80% of the maternal ancestry of the Ashkenazim is Italian. The Y-chromosomal DNA suggests that well over 80% of the paternal ancestry is from the Near East, with a small admixture of Southeastern European ancestry similar to what is today found in Greece and the Balkans.

By the time Hadrian booted all of the Jews out of Roman Judea and renamed the province and the city of Jerusalem, there were already more Jews living dispersed throughout Rome than that lived in Judea anyway, but it's very curious that for whatever reason the fathers of the Ashkenazim heroically left their women behind when they left home. And it also means that they were literally the first known "where all dem white girls at?" refugees from the Middle East to penetrate what would later become the Hajnal line.

I'm not sure if I can parse that fascinating fact into something relevant to today's situation or not without getting lost in the weeds of the comparison, but it sure is an interesting observation in its own right.

Blogger Gaiseric June 16, 2016 9:38 AM  

Student in Blue wrote:@Gaiseric

It's by far the single most dominant, oft-repeated message.

Well, I'd call it a tie between that, and the message of "I have given you Laws to follow to be saved, like you've begged over and over, and you've failed utterly at them over and over. Let's try Grace instead with the Messiah, because that doesn't depend on you numbnuts being able resist sin."

I think that those are inseparably intertwined, though. Both could maybe be called separate sub-thoughts of "trust in God and not the arm of the flesh".

Anonymous SingSling June 16, 2016 9:46 AM  

@26

I lived in a Korean shared house for multiple years in my early 20s, I ate with them, drank with them, consider some long term friends and even dated some of their women which they didn't mind but at the same time I was not one of them. They had to act Korean around other Koreans, no exceptions.

That wasn't a negative thing, it is just way it is and was left unsaid. I respect Koreans, they have interesting personality traits such as the the dark edge they get at times. A divided country leaves scares.

Also a Korean better not buy a Japanese phone though otherwise another will scold them for not supporting Korea by buying Samsung.

I've even met North Koreans actually, not for long enough to pick up their mentality thou.

Anonymous Cassie June 16, 2016 9:59 AM  

It doomed itself to failure as soon as it embraced the "equality of opportunity" concept

This. It's plain that equality of opportunity does not exist for the human species in any meaningful way. We aren't salmon who all spawn at the same time in the same stream and leave our offspring to make their way in the world by themselves; human children get anywhere from a decade and a half to two decades or more of intensive parental investment before going out into the world. Who your parents are determine, to a very large extent, your opportunities in life. The bastard child of a semi-literate high school dropout is *never* going to have equal opportunity compared to the child of Ivy League graduates. And while that's an extreme example, the same goes for people whose parents are of the same socioeconomic class as well. People born in different geographical areas have different opportunities in life just due to location!

Even if you discount the issues of tribalism that crop up in a multicultural society, your opportunities in life will vary from others' with additional factors such as your personality, your physical ability, even your appearance.

The "equality of opportunity" rhetoric also leads directly to intersectional feminism. These people take the idea seriously, notice that reality does not conform to the ideal, and set out to "fix" the "problem" of innate inequality by becoming raging sexists and racists.

Of course conservatives will say that all they mean by "equality of opportunity" is "equality before the law," but of course if that's what they meant they should have just said "equality before the law" in the first place.

Blogger CarpeOro June 16, 2016 10:01 AM  

As I see it, all systems are doomed to failure because the one point they have in common - man - is flawed. Before it is asserted (highly unlikely as it may be) that a computer run society could remove this point of commonality, man being the creator of the machines means they would be flawed also. So why bother trying something "new" or "old"? Because it is in our nature, as much as the hole in our psyches that desires to be filled by a faith in God, to strive to return to the paradise of Eden. We will never reach before the establishment of His kingdom on Earth. That being said, in a sane society (which ours manifestly is not these days) there is a desire to leave a better, happier life for our children and grand children.

As much as they have tried to sell the idea that there are no nations, they have worked to destroy that focal point of any healthy society, the love of children. Feminism, abortion, easy divorce, all are aspects of the evil they have infected society with. Honestly, if you did a search on "Goodlife Saberhagen" you'll find something very similar in the traitors to humanity there.

Why continue to fight in the face of this? Because we have been commanded not to have a heart of fear. We are extolled to be more like Christ. We cannot surrender because we set an example for the future. We have no interest in delaying Christ's victory, which we know will come. You want to know what fear looks like? It is when we shine the light of truth and evil scurries away looking for a new place to hide.

Blogger Dire Badger June 16, 2016 10:01 AM  

I wonder why So many people get confused between the concept of 'upward mobility' and 'equality'?

The difference is that a man with willpower does not REQUIRE 'equality of opportunity' in order to thrive. He creates his own opportunity. All he needs is space in which to thrive, a society in which upward mobility is unrestricted.

Those with merit require nothing that they cannot take for themselves.

Blogger CarpeOro June 16, 2016 10:03 AM  

Cue the song by Triumph "Fight The Good Fight"

Anonymous fred June 16, 2016 10:05 AM  

"It's a form of applied solipsism"

That's an interesting thought, and a cool turn of phrase. Could almost be a lyric by Patti Smith or Sonic Youth. I'll have to remember that one.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler June 16, 2016 10:06 AM  

Gaiseric wrote:@62: Don't be absurd. The Old Testament could largely be reduced to an allegory on the structural flaws of reliance on throne and altar. It's by far the single most dominant, oft-repeated message.

And yet, Christendom as a Cultural Force existed from 325 A.D to 1790 A.D. Over a thousand years. The Bavarian Monarchy lasted 800 years until the American progressive with Jewish Advisors, Woodrow Wilson, demanded that German princes and monarchs abdicate.

The error of Protestantism is taking the OT for political purposes---which is NOT the intent of the OT. The Israelites were under the direct suzentry of God, NOT the Gentiles. What governs the rest of the world is the Natural Law. Monarchy is not evil. Just like every family has a father---every race has a Monarch. Monarchy is central to race. No Monarch---No race. That is why you are dying. America is dead and gone. Which lasted longer, the Bavarian Monarchy or America? Every Enlightenment experiment in government HAS FAILED. Protestantism hooked it itself up with the Enlightenment. Every Protestant government has failed. Britain, which is a democracy, is genociding its own people.

The FACT: Under Throne and Altar--the European people were safe and secure.

The Fact: Under Enlightenment government, under modern republicanism---Europe is dying.

So the question is, what works? What does History teach?

Throne and Altar. As God so designed.

Blogger VD June 16, 2016 10:07 AM  

To extrapolate from that spiritual point that there's no such thing as race and that DNA isn't important is, however, stupid beyond all reason.

Precisely. Which is exactly why Phillip George needs to shut up when the subject isn't Christian theology or evangelism. He's far too short for the ride.

Blogger Ingot9455 June 16, 2016 10:07 AM  

As an aside, Philip George is also screwing up the 'mitochondrial Eve' idea. There were plenty of other equally-evolved women around at the same time as 'mitochondrial Eve' and they too have descendants today. It's just that in the intervening time, their lines converged and everyone can be traced back to the 'Eve.' Not everyone can be traced back to the others.

Anonymous EH June 16, 2016 10:14 AM  

"Those who argue that because DNA is not 100 percent determinative, it is irrelevant, are failing to grasp that in this regard DNA is a necessary factor, thought it is not, in itself, a sufficient one."

Should be: "though it is not"
Though thought isn't a sufficient factor either.

Anonymous 5343 June 16, 2016 10:14 AM  

"so let me run away an hide from all this embarrassment. cheers."
[Posts again a few minutes later]
"UTC plus 10 and all, its winter down here."
[Posts again a few minutes later]

Is there a good name for this debate tactic? I see it all the time. Strange behavior.


There's a biblical description: "A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways."

Blogger Gaiseric June 16, 2016 10:21 AM  

W.LindsayWheeler wrote:The FACT: Under Throne and Altar--the European people were safe and secure.

The Fact: Under Enlightenment government, under modern republicanism---Europe is dying.

So the question is, what works? What does History teach?

Throne and Altar. As God so designed.

The FACT: W.LindsayWheeler cherry-picks historical data in a hysterical attempt to prop up a completely ahistorical narrative.

The FACT: W.LindsayWheeler deliberately contradicts the voice of the Lord Himself as expressed to his prophet Samuel to grind his sectarian ax.

What does History teach? That W.LindsayWheeler is either a liar or an idiot. They don't have to be mutually exclusive.

Blogger Student in Blue June 16, 2016 10:23 AM  

@71. Gaiseric
I think that those are inseparably intertwined, though. Both could maybe be called separate sub-thoughts of "trust in God and not the arm of the flesh".

Fair enough, just one deals with ourselves (failure to follow laws), and the other deals with others (imperfection of man and man's implementation of throne & altar).

Blogger tz June 16, 2016 10:23 AM  

80 IQ Christians believe in sin, hell, and prison and will avoid evil. 120+ IQ atheists believe in the state and will expand theft (tax), fraud (fiat money), and violence (cops), and many Christians go along.
It is nearly impossible to get them to reason or see plain evidence.
The debate tomorrow will be between the cognitive elite. See if anyone changes.
Eternity is a maxed out time preference.

Technology always had contraceptives and abortion in some form - the Comstock laws were from the 1870s. But those were taboo - grave sins. They managed to fence in and channel sexuality. Can we leave sex and procreation detached from each other and still have traditional motherhood?

We've replaced taboos understood by all with complex arguments and rhetoric on how much evil is good for us.

Blogger YIH June 16, 2016 10:23 AM  

FALPhil wrote:@18 Atomic Agent 13

Asians I've heard are more eager to assimilate...

I don't know about that. There is a very large South Korean ex-pat community in my school district. They tend to be rather tight, socially. Although they are sprinkled throughout the suburban neighborhoods, they all go to the same huge Korean Presbyterian church, they hire each other for services, speak Korean in the home, and pool their money to help each other go into business. I also have a Japanese next door neighbor who is a country manager for his firm. In 10 years, I have seen the guy half a dozen times, and that was when he was putting his golf clubs in his car on Saturday morning. His wife speaks very little English. His daughter went to high school with my daughter and attended college in the USA, but upon graduation, went back to Japan and married a Japanese man.

I am on good terms with a couple of the Korean businessmen in my community, but I could never call them friends.

I tend to agree, Asians come to the West for opportunities that would be closed to them in their home countries. For example, a more comfortable life, such as one where everyone is not packed like sardines everywhere they go. But like other non-Whites, they don't come from the same cultures and traditions as Whites, such as Christianity - which is a very minor (and relatively recently imported) faith throughout Asia.
That they don't have a 'chip on their shoulder' as do Mexicans and Africans doesn't mean they don't see the West as ripe for colonization/conquest:
With some exceptions, he said, most had little interest in adopting American values. Often, however, they would pay lip service to assimilation. Once he challenged a Chinese man who was doing this. The man smiled and replied, “Well, you took this country from the Indians, and we’re going to take it from you.”

Anonymous artaud June 16, 2016 10:35 AM  

"What does History teach?"

I really, really hate being the arsehole pointing out fallacies and squawking "Fallacy!" at people (I think it's counterproductive nine out of ten times), but asking "What does History teach?" is the error of reification.

'History' doesn't teach a damn thing; we study our past, and we interpret, and we teach ourselves. I know this phrase is sometimes simply being used as a kind of shorthand; but one must be careful, as conceptual slippage is a constant in human thought.

No reason not to pore over history for clues... but "History" as a thing in itself, doesn't exist except in our minds. Millions have died in the past century or so because idiot-monsters like Karl Marx and Mao Zedong thought that "History" was a real thing.

(Note to all the fun linguists out there: "real thing" is of course redundant. --Oops, I just used another, different "re" core, which is confusing. But still, note how reification and real both come from the same root.)

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents June 16, 2016 10:46 AM  

Athor Pel
Satan's goal is to drag as many humans into sharing the same judgement given to him. There are no humans on his side in his mind. All humans are puppets to him, like so much tissue paper, they serve a goal and that goal is not in us human's best interests.

Think on this. If Satan wants to insure a particular outcome he will use those tools he most closely controls. The most closely controlled humans are those most in slavery to their sins.

And he discards those tools when he's done with them. Che Guevera, casually executed in the Bolivian jungle. Joe Stalin, poisoned by his own security chief and left in his dacha to slowly die. Jim Jones. The list goes on. Satan's bullly boys ride high when they are of use, and then pfft. "Used tissue" indeed.

Blogger Arthur Isaac June 16, 2016 10:51 AM  

Last I checked DNA was family. I think that is the most important thing about DNA. You are not going to define an ethnic group without it.

Blogger bob k. mando June 16, 2016 10:52 AM  

10. Phillip George June 16, 2016 5:58 AM
of course to run this as a double blind experiment you won't know any information about ethnicity.



you contradict yourself, ethnicity is the MOST blatantly obvious thing in the genome.

you can send a genetic sample to 23andme and they will tell you, down to the percent, how much Neanderthal you are.




28. Phillip George June 16, 2016 7:19 AM
There are no traits, no characteristics, not even one gene that is present in all members of one so-called race and absent in another. The A, B, and O blood groups can be found in all the world's peoples (the percentage of Estonians and Papua New Guineans with A, B, and O blood are almost exactly identical).



this is just a flat out lie. even after +400 years of European mixing, the New World shows a HUGE divergence from the rest of the planet in blood typing.

http://anthro.palomar.edu/vary/vary_3.htm

O is pretty much the New World blood type.
A and B range from non-existent to a significant minority.

Australia likewise shows a very distinctive typing.


you can see that this 'Papua New Guinea' claim is of the same order of 'science' as Michael Mann's tree rings. they went out and cherry picked one of the FEW locations which shows a near match to an Eastern European population.

what's the historically interesting thing about Eastern Europe?

they got over run by the Mongols. that's right, there's a LOT of admixture from far Eastern Asia in there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_Empire#/media/File:Mongol_Empire_map.gif

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler June 16, 2016 10:59 AM  

artaud wrote:"What does History teach?"

I really, really hate being the arsehole pointing out fallacies and squawking "Fallacy!" at people (I think it's counterproductive nine out of ten times), but asking "What does History teach?" is the error of reification.

'History' doesn't teach a damn thing;


Wow. Another "professor" to teach us something that history is "refication" and that is a fallacy.

Plato defined science as "the condition of that which is". History is facts, written down events in time! That is real, they happened. Artuad, the New Testament is a history book about the real event of the resurrection of Christ. Your telling me that we have "made real" the resurrection?

History is real, History does NOT become "reified". History is the story of events. Woodrow Wilson did actually call and demand that the German princes abdicate. That is REAL. It happened. Your calling history a "fallacy of reification" is pure and utter nonsense.

History does Teach. It teaches Lessons. What do you think our individual experience is? Is not Wisdom the cumulation of our experiences and knowledge? Our own experiences of situations is history that teaches. We grow from children to adults thru time and our history forms us, teaches us. Ancestry, who begat who, is important. It is History.

History is Facts; events that happened. We may interpret cause or effects of events in time, but History is the cataloguing of concrete real events in Time. The whole Old Testament is History of the Israelite people. The hieroglyphs on the walls in Egypt are History.

History is important. Artuad, your stance is Nihilism papered over by cute sounding phrases. Only an idiot refuses to acknowledge history. What do you think happens at West Point in the training of Military Officers? What is the purpose of debreifings? Sorry, you can't do that, to debrief is the fallacy of reification!

Good God, save us.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents June 16, 2016 11:02 AM  

There are a number of structural flaws in conservatism, but the fatal one has proved to be the embrace of the Proposition Nation mythology.

Business boosterism and a fear of being outgrouped as "racist" seem to be the two lashes that conservatives have been whipped with for decades. The "gig' economy that millennials are working within is very much about social connections. In time, the idea of closing a factory and shipping it to China in order to gain 2 cents per share on a stock price will be seen as antisocial, a stinky thing to do, vaguely abusive. A violation of trust.

We already see that many people under 30 are caring less about the "rayciss" label.

Anonymous Jack Amok June 16, 2016 11:06 AM  

The reason evil systems sow their own destruction is that they require people to believe lies, and believing lies requires ignoring reality. But all stable systems require feedback, and honest feedback is the one thing evil cannot tolerate.

There's no real shame in having once believed in the Proposition Nation idea. It was not, a priori, obviously going to be wrong. Our ancestors could legitimately claim they had done better than their kin who stayed behind, maybe the same could be done for other gene pools.

Feedback says it didn't work out that way though, and honesty requires accepting that feedback and adjusting the system to account for it. An ideology that demands you ignore that feedback and doggedly stick to a failed ideology is, if not evil at least very, very stupid.

Blogger Rabbi B June 16, 2016 11:08 AM  

"Evil is always ultimately self-destructive ..."

Indeed.

Which is one of the reasons why aligning oneself with evil is a fool's gambit. The "success" of evil is an illusion. Human endeavors that displease G-d can only lead to the inexorable downfall of those who seek to advance them.

Therefore, it's not wise to talk too much about the "success" of those who turn their back to G-d and spurn His directives, lest we fall into the mire of resentment and inaction. In fact, we should know, without any trace of uncertainty whatsoever, that it is the apparent success of evildoers which actually serves to bring about their downfall.

We can be confident that G-d will never allow those who use the gift of life for achieving purposes in opposition to His will to enjoy supremacy in His world. For these people have preemptively cut off their own future by their evil acts. The life of the lawless is astoundingly and fleetingly short.

On the flip side, we, who are determined to shun any influence that might alienate us from G-d and who are striving to come close to Him with every deed and act of our lives, we have been assured and promised that we will inherit the earth on that future day of salvation for which we all yearn and patiently tarry.

Although the reality may certainly appear otherwise and the battle is going hard against us, we are acutely aware of a greater Reality Who will not be confounded and Who has promised to be with us when we go through the fire and the water is raging around our necks. G-d is certainly not sitting on His throne, wringing His hands, wondering what to do next, and neither should we. Greater is He that is in you than He that is in the world.

And as for those who array themselves against us to do us harm and practice evil, well ... they have already set themselves up for a fall and great will be their fall. We will look and see them no more, for . . .

Vengeance is Mine, and recompense; their foot shall slip in due time; for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things to come hasten upon them.’ For the L-rd will judge His people and have compassion on His servants, when He sees that their power is gone, and there is no one remaining, bond or free. (cf. Deuteronomy 32)

And also this:

And when the servant of the man of G-d arose early and went out, there was an army, surrounding the city with horses and chariots. And his servant said to him, “Alas, my master! What shall we do?”

So he answered, “Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.”

And Elisha prayed, and said, “L-rd, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” Then the L-rd opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw. And behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha. (cf. II Kings 6)

Those who are with us are more than those who are with them. That's the reality and that's the truth. May He find us living in the light of reality and holding fast to the truth when He comes.

Chazak, chazak, v'nitchazek! Be strong, be strong, and let us be strengthened!

Anonymous EH June 16, 2016 11:15 AM  

I'm surprised that there are still some even here who think that just because there is no single "race gene" that you can't reliably tell people from different groups apart by the pattern of their DNA. It may take a dozen carefully chosen sites in the DNA or a few dozen random ones, but the discrimination is at least 99.9% reliable. See here for a visual depiction of how the "bar codes" vary between different peoples. Here's another post focused more on European peoples, see especially the genetic distance map towards the bottom. Here's a bigger genetic distance map for Europe.

Everything is heritable to some degree, and that heritability increases over the course of growth, the "Aaagh! I'm turning into my parents!" effect. For IQ heretability is about 0.22 at age 5, rising to over 0.8 in adulthood. Personality is also very heritable.

Blogger Arthur Isaac June 16, 2016 11:17 AM  

DNA: Mark 13:8 KJV
"For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows."

Blogger CarpeOro June 16, 2016 11:19 AM  

Wheeler's issue is simple. He ignores the fact that everything involving man becomes corrupt over time. He thinks there is an optimal system. To be honest this is in the back of the mind of most people, myself included, that there is something special about one system. There is not. The republic has degenerated to the Democracy (yet even Athens had more self love than ours does). Monarchies degenerate into oligarchies or tyrannies. Hereditary rule is fine for a period (may even be preferable in the near term to the Democratic/oligarchical system we are presently under), but guess what? If you aren't willing to say "I'll be a serf if I can have a king rule over me" your no better than the apparatchiks of the Soviet Union. Because there are a lot more serfs than kings. Need some "historical evidence"? Look up peasant revolts. Or under Wheeler's favorite example (Sparta), look up helot revolts. Things aren't so rosy in monarchies when your on the bottom of the pyramid. The time for a feudal system may have come again, but it will pass as does every endeavor of man.

Blogger Arthur Isaac June 16, 2016 11:24 AM  

@artuad, if history isn't a "real" thing is our past? How about yesterday. I still have my reports to fill out concerning what happened yesterday. Maybe none of that stuff never really happened. Maybe reality is an illusion.

Anonymous BGKB June 16, 2016 11:24 AM  

Go try to launch satellites with 80-IQ aboriginals and see how far you get.

To be fair thanks to affirmative action the US can't even put people into space.

,the percentage of Estonians and Papua New Guineans with A, B, and O blood are almost exactly identical

approximately 45 percent of Caucasians are type O, but 51 percent of African-Americans and 57 percent of Hispanics are type O. Type O is routinely in short supply and in high demand by hospitals ( because only whites donate for free)

Anonymous EH June 16, 2016 11:24 AM  

tz wrote:The problem is not the 80 IQ aborigines won't make rockets, its that the 120 IQ women won't make babies.

Absolutely. MAKE AMERICA MATE AGAIN

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents June 16, 2016 11:26 AM  

Wheeler's issue is simple.

Wheeler is all rhetoric. No dialectic. That's his issue.
He either cannot learn, or refuses to learn, from facts that contradict his rhetoric.

Wheeler, we all promise to stay off your lawn. Really. Give it a rest?

Blogger Nick S June 16, 2016 11:27 AM  

The key to successful assimilation is several generations of ineluctable immersion. When you have sufficient numbers of immigrants to overwhelm this strategy and develop enclaves that effectively prohibit the ineluctability aspect, the immigration policy and it's administration is doomed to eventual failure. The advent of the internet has provided just such an enclave. The age of successful assimilation is over. This is why I'm dubious of a direct democracy as an effective solution to any of our problems. It might be a good way to fail faster, I suppose. Some form of a democratic Christian Theocracy shouldn't be dismissed out of hand as another potential consideration though.

Blogger Arthur Isaac June 16, 2016 11:28 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Arthur Isaac June 16, 2016 11:28 AM  

And to quote Jesus again: "A house divided cannot stand." Or, of course evil has the seeds of its own demise.

Blogger Feather Blade June 16, 2016 11:31 AM  

Spartacus xxxxx wrote: Y chromosome research shows there is no "Adam' for "Eve", and.

Obviously not, since the bottleneck in the male genome occurred well after the bottleneck in the female genome.

They've found a common male ancestor for all humans, but the guy they've found is Noah.

Blogger Arthur Isaac June 16, 2016 11:33 AM  

Last I checked DNA was family. I think that is the most important thing about DNA. You are not going to define an ethnic group without it.

Anonymous andon June 16, 2016 11:33 AM  

102. Blogger Nick S June 16, 2016 11:27 AM

The key to successful assimilation....


why would you want to assimilate a bunch of low IQ, high violence, parasitic turds?

Anonymous andon June 16, 2016 11:39 AM  

Go try to launch satellites with 80-IQ aboriginals and see how far you get.

for some reason I read that as:

Go try to launch a bunch of 80-IQ aboriginals as satellites and see how far you get.

Anonymous BGKB June 16, 2016 11:42 AM  

Can DNA tell us if a particular black boy will eventually go to jail no, but even Eric Holder admitted 1 out of 3 voting age black males are felons when he argued against Florida's Felon No Vote Law.

When a EMP goes off next week I'd rather be with dumbies who can hunt real gooooooood.

You better include trapping if you want meat on the table, the wildlife wont hold up for long with everyone out hunting. Better yet go with the smart people with a solar powered aquaponics greenhouse.

The future, hence, will be filled with people who like kids and don't commit wanton infanticide

Lena Dunham likes kids but advocates for abortion. I wonder if Planned Parenthood sells little girls vaginas?

Blogger Nick S June 16, 2016 11:55 AM  

Better yet go with the smart people with a solar powered aquaponics greenhouse.

Funny you should mention that. I've been looking into setting one up. My problem is I don't currently have a strategically defensible location for the long term. I think I would be good for a year or so, or until roving bands of marauders became sufficiently organized, but I really need to look into relocating.

Anonymous andon June 16, 2016 12:05 PM  

86. Blogger YIH June 16, 2016 10:23 AM

I tend to agree, Asians come to the West for opportunities that would be closed to them in their home countries. For example, a more comfortable life, such as one where everyone is not packed like sardines everywhere they go. But like other non-Whites, they don't come from the same cultures and traditions as Whites, such as Christianity - which is a very minor (and relatively recently imported) faith throughout Asia.
That they don't have a 'chip on their shoulder' as do Mexicans and Africans doesn't mean they don't see the West as ripe for colonization/conquest:
With some exceptions, he said, most had little interest in adopting American values. Often, however, they would pay lip service to assimilation. Once he challenged a Chinese man who was doing this. The man smiled and replied, “Well, you took this country from the Indians, and we’re going to take it from you.”


I start to notice that the Asians may not be the friends I thought they were. I hear many more are sneaking into the country than used to and many Asian women take advantage of us with this shameless "birthing tourist" scam. its like the whole world is coming here to take advantage of you.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents June 16, 2016 12:06 PM  

Nick S
The key to successful assimilation is several generations of ineluctable immersion.

What if "immersion" is really just a different word for "intermarriage"?

Blogger dc.sunsets June 16, 2016 12:07 PM  

The problem is not the 80 IQ aborigines won't make rockets, its that the 120 IQ women won't make babies.

Not always. There are women in the Remnant. I married one and have three (3 for 3) 145 IQ sons to prove it. With luck, all three of their wives will prove out to be similarly gifted both in intelligence & fertility.

The challenge they face is in affording the support of large families themselves while being forced to pay the taxes supporting the huge families produced by underclass morons.

Political policies are clearly dysgenic.

Blogger Nick S June 16, 2016 12:13 PM  

What if "immersion" is really just a different word for "intermarriage"?

It's not. Intermarriage among the successfully assimilated is not the same as assimilation via intermarriage. The first may be acceptable. The latter is impossible and stupid.

Blogger Paul Widdecombe June 16, 2016 12:18 PM  

Another thought provoking post - thanks Vox.

However...

"communism destroys personal initiative"

Individual initiative thrives under communism! Hence the well worn cliche about some being more equal than others. Communal initiative is what dies - because the incentive for individuals to foster it dies

I would say it is the law of opposites - Communism destroys the community. Feminism destroys femininity. Conservatism destroys the possibility of conservation.

Blogger residentMoron June 16, 2016 12:38 PM  

CarpeOro makes it great point about idealism and political structure. By various means we happened on an arrangement that was very successful for a time. So much so that most now believe it was the structure that made the people succeed and not the other way around.

I'm first to admit that democracy might be the best structure for a group of intelligent, highly motivated, widely educated, and devout people who hold the great bulk of their mores in common.

But that doesn't make it, ipso facto, the best structure to govern a people where all of these once cohesive factors are steadily diverging. As Vox predicts, it might not be possible at all except via most oppressive violence.

But the rampant success of the constitutional republic peopled by a devout homogeneous european culture, has produced an idolatry of the structure at the expense of the culture.

You might think cars are better than buses. You might simply prefer cars to buses. But the experience you have riding the greyhound from New York to L.A. is far more dependent on the other people in it - including of course the driver - than it is on the vehicle.

Singapore was effectively a monarchy while Lee Kean Yew lived, and largely still is. But his son is not him, and the incredible things he achieved there are all at risk if the people forget that it was the quality of the driver and not the shape of the vehicle, that made the trip so satisfactory for so many.

Culture matters far more than political structure, it is the cause of structure not the effect, and so DNA matters because it has enormous cultural impacts. It sets limits not easily breached.

The culture wars are the war for everything, for all of us.

Anonymous rubberducky June 16, 2016 12:54 PM  

You don't even have to use God or good/evil to suggest, as WF has, that if it's against reality it's no good.

Some people hear "God, good/evil" and they turn off. The scientist types.

As, as expected, anything that's against reality is also *unscientific and irrational*, as well as being against God.

Funny how that works, no?

Science, upon encountering reality, accepts it and seeks to understand and explain it. That's the mission of science.

When most modern political religions such as but not limited to leftism encounter reality, and that reality conflicts with theory or dogma, then that reality has to be denied. So we get Caitlyn Jenner, "workpace violence", you name it. Look at the title of every bill before Congress to see what it is *NOT*.

And if you insist upon denying reality, you cut yourself off from the necessary feedback mechanism that keeps you honest and on the right track towards truth.

You get lost in the bog. As most modern political religions are.

Anonymous rubberducky June 16, 2016 12:56 PM  

Meant to say, "the scientism types"

Anonymous Soylent_Green June 16, 2016 12:59 PM  

DNA related article. Pretty interesting.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/1-in-200-men-direct-descendants-of-genghis-khan/#.V2LZ6aJHarU

Anonymous artaud June 16, 2016 1:05 PM  

@Wheeler and Arthur Isaac:

The stoopid is strong with these two.

I didn't say that the record of our human past, or that our human past itself, did or does not exist, I said that history (qua "History") does not exist as a Force, viz. as a thing in itself with its own intentions and directionality. That is what reification means (Latin res "a thing, an actual object" plus facere "to make, to _re_alize (!!) from which we get words like "fact"), and it is a common error in human thought, especially among leftards, insofar as they can even be said to "think". "History" is not a "thing" that has intentions, emotions, willful force, &c. That is not the same as saying there is no such thing as the past, or records thereof.

Now back to your Gilligan's Island. I believe the Professor just made a radio out of a coconut.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents June 16, 2016 1:05 PM  

What if "immersion" is really just a different word for "intermarriage"?

It's not.

How do you know? Are you arguing for tabula rasa? It's a little late for that.

Intermarriage among the successfully assimilated is not the same as assimilation via intermarriage. The first may be acceptable. The latter is impossible and stupid.

Well, we have multiple generations of intermarriage between Germans / Nordics / Irish / French / English / Italian just for a start.

What if a couple of generations of intermarriage between different gene pools (Irish marry Italian, etc.) produces people who for all practical purposes are assimilated, as proven by their behavior such as time preference?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 16, 2016 1:24 PM  

Gaiseric wrote:It's amazing to me how often demographic trends and statistics are hand-waved away as irrelevant because of "muh anecdotes". It's a form of applied solipsism; "I can't really believe anything that I don't personally witness myself."

In HBD discussions, way too often it's actually "I can't believe anything that I can see for myself." Something so obvious it's slapping you in the face is, because of its obviousness, inherently wrong.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey June 16, 2016 1:42 PM  

Perhaps if you look at it on a finer scale, though. San Francisco was 13% black in the 80s-- it's 6% black now, yet no one seems to be calling for an emergency Section 8 intervention....

Blogger Doom June 16, 2016 1:44 PM  

Cheddarman,

Hmm? No, I was an athlete... three sports, and some say a scholar... part time of the latter anyway. Why, you think I move people? Just type "doom" in the 'find' bar and... hmm... you might be on to something. Though I don't think that is what you meant. Sarcasm? This is Vox. Just come out and say it. Don't be a pussy about it.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey June 16, 2016 1:47 PM  

Race can be determined via genetics with certainty for >99.8% of individuals:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15508000

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey June 16, 2016 1:48 PM  

All terrestrial vertebrates are descended from marine animals. Fish are our brothers!

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey June 16, 2016 1:51 PM  

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15625622

Blogger Gaiseric June 16, 2016 1:55 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:In HBD discussions, way too often it's actually "I can't believe anything that I can see for myself." Something so obvious it's slapping you in the face is, because of its obviousness, inherently wrong.
Well, yeah—there's a strong element of that too; largely as an artifact of our blank slate indoctrination.

Anonymous Spartacus xxxxx June 16, 2016 1:59 PM  

Feather Blade wrote:Spartacus xxxxx wrote: Y chromosome research shows there is no "Adam' for "Eve", and.

Obviously not, since the bottleneck in the male genome occurred well after the bottleneck in the female genome.

They've found a common male ancestor for all humans, but the guy they've found is Noah.


What about Mrs. Noah? There are several stories in the OT that are not exclusive to the OT; they're told around the world in various ways. The Flood is one of them. And isn't it interesting that the sea level rose by 100 meters not so long ago?

A bit more on the 'demise' of Mitochondrial Eve and the fallacy of the molecular clock- https://trueorigin.org/mitochondrialeve01.php

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 16, 2016 2:04 PM  

rubberducky wrote:Science, upon encountering reality, accepts it and seeks to understand and explain it. That's the mission of science.
Except those areas of reality that are systematically excluded from reality on religious grounds.

Blogger Were-Puppy June 16, 2016 2:42 PM  

I was thinking about this the other day.

If God created objective reality, then things which are against objective reality are at the least against His creation.

If objective reality is the truth, then those things against objective reality are against the truth.

Blogger SirHamster June 16, 2016 2:43 PM  

rubberducky wrote:You don't even have to use God or good/evil to suggest, as WF has, that if it's against reality it's no good.

Some people hear "God, good/evil" and they turn off. The scientist types.

As, as expected, anything that's against reality is also *unscientific and irrational*, as well as being against God.

Funny how that works, no?

Science, upon encountering reality, accepts it and seeks to understand and explain it. That's the mission of science.



Thing is that science and moral are different axis.

It is scientific to inject a group of people with Ebola to see what happens. From a scientific perspective, the only thing that matters is that you take detailed notes. From a moral perspective, innocence and the value of human life factor in.


Trying to replace moral judgement with scientific/rational thinking is an evil in of itself.

"These human beings are a net drain on society. Cull them."

OpenID simplytimothy June 16, 2016 2:59 PM  

This is because God is both real and Creator of reality, and all that is in conflict with reality is necessarily in conflict with Him, too.

Awesome.

Blogger Nick S June 16, 2016 3:11 PM  

@122

Don't get me wrong. Intermarriage can certainly be one aspect of immersion and it may even be a helpful one in certain circumstances, but it's not synonymous. I kinda glossed over that because I know you're generally intelligent and I thought it was too obvious.

Blogger Were-Puppy June 16, 2016 3:21 PM  

@108 andon
why would you want to assimilate a bunch of low IQ, high violence, parasitic turds?
--

Ask a wigger, I have no clue

Anonymous Athor Pel June 16, 2016 3:23 PM  

" 87. Anonymous artaud June 16, 2016 10:35 AM
"What does History teach?"

I really, really hate being the arsehole pointing out fallacies and squawking "Fallacy!" at people (I think it's counterproductive nine out of ten times), but asking "What does History teach?" is the error of reification.
..."


As you probably know there is more there.

Material things: documents, artifacts, epigraphy, buildings, are where we get our history. The men that created those things had biases, had agendas and those influenced what they did and how they did it. You gotta take that into account when interpreting mankind's history.

Then we have the difference between the world as it existed when the object was created and the world we have now. What I mean is that object was created along with a great many other objects which we do not have and may never obtain. They've been lost. The window through which we view our past is small and dim and frustratingly incomplete.

Finally we come to our own prejudices, our own points of view, our own blind spots. This is the primary reason some researchers immerse themselves in activities that our ancestors practiced as a way of life. Doing it in order to obtain insights they could get no other way.

If you want to know why someone does something a particular way you need to do that thing yourself. As you learn how to do it you will learn things you did not anticipate learning.

It's too bad some things require decades or multiple generations for us to figure out whether they have any merit. And then the men that write the history for one generation lie intentionally or by omission so as to force future generations to forget what that one learned. Yes, humanity intentionally lies to itself.

And that reminds me of the movie Memento.

Blogger Chris Robertson June 16, 2016 3:46 PM  

RE the relationship between evil and sustainability, I was recently going over one of Fr. (now Bishop) Robert Barron's lectures on Acquinas emphasizing the "creator" nature of God.

The book I'm working on is a moral defense of "hatred," defined as a kind of disgust towards mind. This disgust is a recognition of danger and/or incompatibility. If sin is what is hateful to God, and God's nature, according to Aquinas, is that of life and ongoing creation, than unsustainability in an ideology might not merely *indicate,* evil, but is very nearly evil by definition.

Blogger Chris Robertson June 16, 2016 3:47 PM  

RE the relationship between evil and sustainability, I was recently going over one of Fr. (now Bishop) Robert Barron's lectures on Acquinas emphasizing the "creator" nature of God.

The book I'm working on is a moral defense of "hatred," defined as a kind of disgust towards mind. This disgust is a recognition of danger and/or incompatibility. If sin is what is hateful to God, and God's nature, according to Aquinas, is that of life and ongoing creation, than unsustainability in an ideology might not merely *indicate,* evil, but is very nearly evil by definition.

Blogger Nick S June 16, 2016 4:03 PM  

andon wrote:102. Blogger Nick S June 16, 2016 11:27 AM



The key to successful assimilation....


why would you want to assimilate a bunch of low IQ, high violence, parasitic turds?



I don't. Why would you assume that I do? Did the point, which was successful assimilation is no longer possible, go right over your head, Short Bus?

Blogger Alexander June 16, 2016 4:32 PM  

why would you want to assimilate a bunch of low IQ, high violence, parasitic turds?

To secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our wives' posterity, duh.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 16, 2016 4:40 PM  

Alexander wrote:To secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our wives' posterity, duh.

Okay, I laughed. That's just perfect.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents June 16, 2016 5:16 PM  

Nick S.
Intermarriage can certainly be one aspect of immersion and it may even be a helpful one in certain circumstances, but it's not synonymous.

Assume that behavior, such as time preference, is inherited to some degree. Marriage itself indicates some degree of time preference. Intermarriage mixes and shakes and bakes genes.

Why wouldn't intermarriage possibly produce offspring more like the offspring of other intermarriages, than like grandparents, thus producing people who "assimilate" more easily?

What if assimilation is as much genetic as behavioral?

We see something of a reverse version of this effect in the Amish, who seem to be in the process of becoming "more Amish" every generation due to the "boiling off" effect of rumspringa.

Blogger Groot June 16, 2016 5:39 PM  

11. Eric the Red:
"The premise about Northern CA seems contrived, and his reasoning seem strained. Oakland has been a black blight for ages. Now the Central Valley is awash in Mexicans. None of that is doing anything to keep out the riff-raff."

In Silicon Valley, the Central Valley is considered part of the East Coast. And an oriental judge is starving their agriculture of water, so self-righteously, because bait-fish are so much more worthy than itinerant Latinos.

@15. Cheddarman:
"The only people that belive in America as a propositional nation imo are deluded whites."

And deluded trees, I guess. I am willing to defend the concept of a propositional nation, being Groot, and will take on all comers with an actual argument. Bring it on.

@OP: UPDATE: WF has an intriguing thought:
"if a system (ideology, structure, philosophy, individual, or thought) contains within it the seeds of contradiction, be it internal or external, or systemic collapse, it's a good bet it is against God and therefore evil."

It has long been obvious to me that this is all a simulation. What are the chances I'd get a mod like this out of pure chance? Pretty close to 0%. Clearly, meta-me paid his quarters and chose wisely. The rest of you are mostly in-game AI, and pretty poorly sketched-out, at that.

@18. Atomic Agent 13:
"Mexicans are certainly interested in nation building within a nation, their ideology cuts across self serving cultural lines not religious."

Many of the Hispanics around here aren't even aware that they're Hispanic. Granted, the ones I know are the smart ones that have assimilated, but they consider themselves as white as any Italian or Greek.

"Asians I've heard are more eager to assimilate, which seems true from what I've seen, or at least they don't have the open hostility towards the U.S. as we've seen in La Raza."

I know a lot of freaking Asian women, and they are almost universally married to non-Asians. Can you blame them?

@40. Gaiseric:
"When open borders, 'free' trade and multinational global communities are part of the ideology, then yes—the failure is ideological."

Not picking a fight (I find your comments intelligent), but, while not "open borders," I find free trade (i.e., voluntary exchange) to be entirely beneficial, as in unequivocally a positive sum interaction. I also find no contradiction between a multinational global community and support for local communities, any more than I find a contradiction between patriotism and love of family.

@51. Gaiseric:
"It's a form of applied solipsism"

A neat turn of phrase (see my simulation comment above).

@62. Athor Pel:
"Cyborg is the nice label for them. Monster will be more accurate."

[Evil laugh.]

OpenID simplytimothy June 16, 2016 6:23 PM  

Lovekraft the Altright is in its infancy. It is gaining ground with....

VDare reports that JAG has closed its doors, suggesting that the authors where afraid of being outed. The report includes a long list of "mainstream" articles engaging them and suggests this very success was why they had to go dark.


Very disturbing if true, because I would love to fight back and make those guys successful.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey June 16, 2016 6:38 PM  

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15625622

Blogger Phillip George June 16, 2016 6:42 PM  

O.K. I slept on it,

the double blind experiment is to take 1000 babies genetic sequence and make useful predictions about average IQ and cancer rates etc. Being blind you will have no reference to ethnicity you can identify.

If averages are your standard for determination your predictions will be demonstrated to within a standard deviation.

Point being, It can't be done.

modern humans are one of the most genetically similar of all species. On average, only one of every 1,000 nucleotides (the "letters" that make up our DNA) differ one individual from another. This is because we are a relatively young species (approximately 150,000 - 200,000 years old). We simply haven't been around long enough to accumulate much genetic variation.

85%, or almost all human variation, can be found within any single local population, whether it's Malay, Irish, Zulus or Koreans. There is FAR more variation within groups than between groups. This means that there may be as many - or more - genetic differences between two random Koreans as between a random Korean and a Zulu. On average, approximately 94% of all genetic variation can be found within any continental area.

If you ever need a kidney transplant you are just as likely to get if from an opposite "race" as a near "relative".

three quarters of the comments above are clueless.

\the Bible wins, but I won't be putting too much time into someone else's delusion factory.

Blogger Nick S June 16, 2016 6:51 PM  

@143 What if assimilation is as much genetic as behavioral?

Okay. Let's assume is it. That would mean 50% genetic and 50% environmental pressures equally influence ones cultural predispositions. Even with that as a given, I don't see how you could possibly continue to insist that intermarriage is tantamount to ineluctable cultural immersion. Would genetic pressures alone be sufficient to engender cultural assimilation if the environment of the subject was antithetical to the desired cultural target? I don't think so. You're not going to automatically get a gentleman out of a blue blood raised by wolves.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 16, 2016 7:00 PM  

Phillip George wrote:Being blind you will have no reference to ethnicity you can identify.



If you have their DNA sequence you have their ethnicity.

Genetic haplogroup is determinable from DNA with >99% accuracy. Haplogroup is cognate with ethnicity for all rational values.

The fact that not every gene marker that influences IQ is identified has no bearing on it. You definitely can identify, within a few percentage points, the odds of getting a large and growing list of cancers.

OpenID simplytimothy June 16, 2016 7:10 PM  

And that reminds me of the movie Memento.

Great comment.

Regarding Memento, I rarely watch tv/movies. Based on the quality of your comment, I did watch the trailer to it and I think I guessed the plot about 40 seconds in....

Let me know if I got it.

At the end, the guy discovers that he is the one who killed his own wife?

The story is very similar to Angel Heart where Mickey Roark is on a mission to find....Mickey Roark.

Amiright?






Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 16, 2016 7:11 PM  

Nick S wrote:You're not going to automatically get a gentleman out of a blue blood raised by wolves.
No, but you'll get a warlord.

Blogger Phillip George June 16, 2016 7:22 PM  

Haplogroup is cognate with ethnicity

thanks Snidely, I think "ethnicity" will be a fairly elastic word if you want to claim 99% with an actual double blind study. Can you cite the paper?

As for Cancer, the question remains about. The twin studies suggest epigenetic triggers more things than currently allowed for. I'd like to see a double blind of vaccines on twins for example. But it looks unethical to begin with.

Blogger Rusty Fife June 16, 2016 7:33 PM  

Phillip George wrote:Haplogroup is cognate with ethnicity

thanks Snidely, I think "ethnicity" will be a fairly elastic word if you want to claim 99% with an actual double blind study. Can you cite the paper?

As for Cancer, the question remains about. The twin studies suggest epigenetic triggers more things than currently allowed for. I'd like to see a double blind of vaccines on twins for example. But it looks unethical to begin with.


You still haven't commented on my counter challenge to turn a pit bull into a retriever.

Or does breeding stop at the neck for humans?

Anonymous Clay The Swamp Spartan June 16, 2016 7:35 PM  

You're right VD. Once a post on your blog goes beyond about fifty posts, the religion kicks-in.

Blogger Phillip George June 16, 2016 7:43 PM  

Clay, I'm a 6 day creationist based on empirical evidences.
I'd like to see a 6 day creationist in the top or first ten comments on every blog on every topic and everywhere. Why? because there is nothing God doesn't relate to/ can't fix; or wasn't there in the beginning with.

Theology is king of sciences. From Newton to Mendel/ Mendel the priest.

Blogger Nick S June 16, 2016 7:44 PM  

@151

Possibly but get neither a proper gentleman nor a proper wolf. Likewise, a wolf raided by a gentleman will be neither a proper wolf nor a proper gentleman. An acceptable degree of cultural assimilation may still be achieved after a number of successive generations, but, as long as there are enclaves that encourage cultural reversions to genetic predispositions, if possible at all, assimilation will be more difficult by orders of magnitude. That's the situation we have now. Intermarriage could be a positive contributing factor. It could also be a negative contributing factor. As I originally said, several generations of ineluctable cultural immersion is the key factor and it is not wholly interchangeable or synonymous with intermarriage.

Blogger Phillip George June 16, 2016 7:48 PM  

Rusty, if the hyper speciated/ used up all their genetic latent potential animals, are very inbred I suggest their evolution is "finished". The micro evolutionary changes, speciation potential is exhausted by a reduction in information. I don't expect it can be reversed. You can take wolves and breed a great variety of off spring. You can't do the same for greyhounds or chihuahua/

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 16, 2016 7:57 PM  

Phillip George,
I hope you don't do Theology like you do Science.

Blogger Phillip George June 16, 2016 8:02 PM  

ad hominem Snidely, have you got anything for me? A bone to chew. Anything with substance.

Did you read, Francis Parker Yockey's link?
Did you spot the weakness in their method?

Blogger Rusty Fife June 16, 2016 8:43 PM  

Phillip George wrote:Rusty, if the hyper speciated/ used up all their genetic latent potential animals, are very inbred I suggest their evolution is "finished". The micro evolutionary changes, speciation potential is exhausted by a reduction in information. I don't expect it can be reversed. You can take wolves and breed a great variety of off spring. You can't do the same for greyhounds or chihuahua/

How much of the "micro evolutionary changes, speciation potential is exhausted by a reduction in information" for the various human family breeds?

Blogger Phillip George June 16, 2016 8:47 PM  

alright Snidely,

I'll bless you with my erudition out of sheer benevolence.

The research group sought out self segregators and went looking for affirmation of family specific traits. They accepted self identifier's parameters [four major ethnic groups] and went looking for position affirmations. They didn't look for or at complete comparisons, across or between groups. They went looking for affirmations of family inheritance. ie. Specific Marker sets. What wouldn't you expect in their findings?
They have discovered inheritance? Was that a surprise?

Blogger Phillip George June 16, 2016 8:58 PM  

Actually Rusty, humans are only one species, as dogs are, I over extended the use of the word.

But how much genetic cumulative damage has now occurred is an interesting question. Inbreeding in family groups is a real problem. Cousin marriages/ damaged DNA/ expression of otherwise recessive genes. Has it led to a real increase in miscarriage and or a lowering of IQ. That's real. I don't want to guess at numbers.

How much does miscegenation make for healthier smarter children? And even if there is a 'mechanical advantage' does it make it a right decision? It's a separate argument from "damaged" groups.

Blogger Phillip George June 16, 2016 9:10 PM  

Also prion disease in close relative cannibal societies.
Also "polygamous" relationships in the sub Sahara. Too many bottlenecks of "one chief" too many wives or,
polygamy in sub-saharan africa/ recessive gene expression.

Too many bottle necks, led less latent potential. Depletion of the pool.

Blogger Rusty Fife June 16, 2016 9:12 PM  

Phillip George wrote:Actually Rusty, humans are only one species, as dogs are, I over extended the use of the word.

I was accepting that humans are one species; and different breeds. Where a breed includes genetic traits from close relations. For example Irish are a breed with sub-breeds from Gael and Pict (making up names here) and sub-sub-breeds down to the clan level & etc.

This is no different than dogs with traceable liniage.

How much of the "micro evolutionary changes, speciation potential is exhausted by a reduction in information" for an Irish clan?

Blogger Phillip George June 16, 2016 9:23 PM  

Well I'm sticking with the genetic entropy argument. Everything is devolving. Until better evidence comes it information death is occurring at the cellular, organelle level.

Fruit flies with their very short life span have greater Genetic variation than humans. In more complex systems I suggest that means greater fragility, more disease. Heat death means information decay. Rust never sleeps.

A geneticist couldn't identify and fix actual damage fast enough to save mankind. My opinion as is.

Blogger Rusty Fife June 16, 2016 9:24 PM  

Phillip George wrote:

Too many bottle necks, led less latent potential. Depletion of the pool.


We're not talking about bottle necks are we? If I understand you correctly Clann Domhnaill can identify Clann Néill by inspection; but there is not sufficient data in the genome to do it. Is that a correct restatement of your position?

Blogger Rusty Fife June 16, 2016 9:26 PM  

Phillip George wrote:Well I'm sticking with the genetic entropy argument. Everything is devolving. Until better evidence comes it information death is occurring at the cellular, organelle level.

Fruit flies with their very short life span have greater Genetic variation than humans. In more complex systems I suggest that means greater fragility, more disease. Heat death means information decay. Rust never sleeps.

A geneticist couldn't identify and fix actual damage fast enough to save mankind. My opinion as is.


How did we get to genetic damage and heat death from not being able to identify families from the genome? Please walk me through it.

Blogger Rusty Fife June 16, 2016 9:29 PM  

@167

My mistake:
How did we get to genetic damage and heat death from not being able to teah pit bulls to be retrievers? Please walk me through it.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge©2016 June 16, 2016 9:47 PM  

animals were specifically intentionally bred and then inbred for/ to accentuate characteristics in off spring.

once achieved the process can't be reversed.

A wolf is the archetypal parent group animal with the most latent potential.

ie. God made them to fit in from Alaska to the Sahara. Once "speciated" to the max, individual breeds have lost the latent potential.

This is the teleological creationist argument. Things look designed to fit a vast array of environments and climatic variations, because that is exactly what they are. Lamarck has been proven right with the epigenetics of inheritance. Adaption is triggered within a generation.

Identical twins are born the same but exogenous and endogenous influences, including, conscious choices, mean they die with different genetic sequences.

Blogger Rusty Fife June 16, 2016 10:00 PM  

PhillipGeorge©2016 wrote:ie. God made them to fit in from Alaska to the Sahara. Once "speciated" to the max, individual breeds have lost the latent potential.

How is it that human breeds that have adapted to variuos envirnments from Alaska to the Sahara also haven't lost that potential. Europeans for example cannot long survive the disease environment of Africa and Africans cannot long survive the Artic circle. How far down the inbreeding chain are humans?

When you out breed domestic dogs enough; you end up with a yellow curr.

Anonymous rubberducky June 16, 2016 10:30 PM  

Sir Hamster @133 -- What you say is true, but it is rather far afield from my point.

If you oppose or deny reality, you betray God ultimately. That was WF's point. I am adding that you also are betraying science and reason as well.

Which should come as no surprise, but good to add on behalf of those who wouldn't consider any theological argument to have much weight.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge©2016 June 16, 2016 10:48 PM  

Rusty, got to go to get some other stuff done but.

]Humans have some melanin variation for sun exposure. They make thicker blood at altitude. That's about it. Otherwise "they" alter their own environments with roofing, fires, fur skins, sunglasses etc. etc. The adaptive push factors are maximally reduced. Otherwise it would be interesting to watch ten generations of Scandinavians moved to the equator. How much adaptive potential has been lost from humans is indeed an open and interesting question.



As for dogs, you can look for significant variation in the off spring of wolves even today. But breeds like poodles are obviously genetically weaker/ bottle-necked/ degraded.

Adaptive potentials are all degraded with time/ through subsequent generations. It's the opposite of entropy lowering upwards evolution.

Anonymous Cheddarman June 16, 2016 10:48 PM  

Philip George you fail big time at understanding genetics. Races differ from one another based on genetic phenotypes. The dna responsible for expression of a northern European phenotype(s) is limited and vastly different than that responsible for a bantu phenotype(s) which is also limited and vastly different than the northern European phenotypes. You are using a,cultural marxist interpretation of genetic sciene and are failing badly.

Anonymous Cheddarman June 16, 2016 10:55 PM  

Doom lighten up. I was making fun of your pessimism with sarcasm. You do move me...to make a bowel movement

Anonymous Clay The Swamp Spartan June 16, 2016 10:58 PM  

Hell, I'm from Mississippi. We grew our own genes. Smoked a few, too.

Blogger Phillip George June 16, 2016 11:08 PM  

be more specific chedderman:

it would be interesting to watch ten generations of Scandinavians moved to the equator.

I say that again. But we don't have time to run a ten generation experiment. So, you are making your conclusion "today"........

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 17, 2016 1:50 AM  

@Phillip George
By arriving at your conclusion and reading to find arguments to reinforce that conclusion, including deliberately misapplying research.

General Entropy simply does not apply to living systems in the short term. That's been known since the concept was introduced. But you think you can use the concept to reinforce your idiot argument, so you drag it out, proving you don't understand it.

As an example; Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome. It is a fairly simple genetic defect of the collage protein, 1:50,000 of the general population has it in some form.
It is known that the mutation spontaneously occurs in a small fraction of the cases.
It is also known that the simple mutation reverses in a small fraction of cases.

In which case is the information lost? Or is information being spontaneously created and lost at the same time?

Either way, your assertion does not fit the facts.

Blogger Phillip George June 17, 2016 1:58 AM  

Snidely, with any single point mutation it is, as far as I'm concerned impossible to ascribe a Boltzmann equation solution. With ten generations of dog breed one can observe the gene for long hair seems to be permanently deleted in some breeds. It's gone. Not dormant. Not recessive. Deleted. Take them to a cold climate and they die.

I suggest a one way entropy flow based on such empiricism. Thanks for your example. One swallow doesn't make for spring; or repeat business at a whore house.

Blogger Phillip George June 17, 2016 2:10 AM  

second example. retrodictive mri autopsies on mummified Egyptians.
A fairly recent paper suggest little to nil incidence of Cancer.
This affirms my world view. The Bible explains life on earth and there is more than adequate affirmations. One simply needs to give up three generations of psuedo scientific dogma, science falsely so-called.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 17, 2016 2:30 AM  

Again with cherry picking your evidence
"That doesn't count,it's a single gene!"
Of course it's simplified.It's a simple example that takes other variables out of the equation.
And I'll guarantee that the hair length (not "long hair", genes are typically flip-flops, not descriptions) genes are still present. They may have flipped to "short" rather than "long", or they may be unexpressed due to epigenetics, but the are not deleted. We still carry gene sequences unexpressed in 10,000 generations.

Cancer is typically a disease of the old. My wife's (non-genetic) breast cancer at the age of 49 elicited surprise from the oncologist at her young age.
What was the age at death of the Egyptian mummies surveyed?

Blogger Phillip George June 17, 2016 2:39 AM  

I'll guarantee ???

this is doing circles. You believe in entropy lowering information adding random mutations accumulating to increase by orders of magnitude species in varieties of kingdom phylum genus.

I'll need to get back to you with average age.
Exhumed bodies from other periods in history add credence to the "genetic entropy" argument. But it's like "man didn't land on the moon".
Evidence "can't exist" "it just can't". The matrix is real after all.
Interesting days indeed.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 17, 2016 3:02 AM  

You persist in category error, to which you now add the error of adducing to me opinions which I don't hold.

I said entropy does not apply to living systems in the short term. Which is self-evidently true. But that doesn't agree with your conclusion, so I must be an evolutionist.

Vox was right, you're an edumacated idiot.

Blogger Phillip George June 17, 2016 3:11 AM  

Well thanks Snidely, with the open space implied invitation to expand on your paradigm you tried your hardest to come at me with "I am the victim of bigotry" claim.

As for the Overton Window and Free Speech angle on this?
Very Very Very interesting.

Entropy applies to every cell division all the time.

If I stack card in house and order Hearts, Diamonds, Clubs, Spades the deck is improved and all of our lives are depleted. I just wasted my time.

But as George W. tried to say about "Fool me once..." this, as a website, partly exists to sell product doesn't it? And money flows in all sorts of directions.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 17, 2016 3:25 AM  

Phillip George wrote:Well thanks Snidely, with the open space implied invitation to expand on your paradigm you tried your hardest to come at me with "I am the victim of bigotry" claim.

WTF are you even talking about? I call you out on your lies and you claim it's an accusation of bigotry? You are now starting to come across as deranged, bitch.

It's fascinating in a "watch-the-crazy-guy-scream-at-pedestrians-while-furiously-masturbating" kind of way.

Blogger Phillip George June 17, 2016 4:07 AM  

behold the modern man of science.

Blogger Phillip George June 17, 2016 4:12 AM  

Dismissing the argument that the ancient Egyptians didn't live long enough to develop cancer, the researchers pointed out that other age-related disease such as hardening of the arteries and brittle bones died occur.

quoting Professor Michael Zimmerman

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1320507/Cancer-purely-man-say-scientists-finding-trace-disease-Egyptian-mummies.html#ixzz4Bp2aYStA


for any casual third party. cheers. [...and for the fish]

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit June 17, 2016 4:41 AM  

I can't believe Vox Day pulled a Noam Chomsky (albeit honestly)

Quoted approvingly:
"Nonetheless, the payoff has become undeniable. Rather than being inundated with unskilled immigrants from one country, Northern California mainly attracts skilled immigrants from a wide diversity of countries."


Followed by:
"..but the fatal one [flaw] has proved to be the embrace of the Proposition Nation mythology.

Heh.

Soo...proposition nation works: take a small number and run 'em through the assimilation mill (Assimilation to what? American culture? Which is? A series of propositions about reality include Christianity, self-control, democratic republican self-government, and freedom from aristos) just not with mass immigration.

Oops.

It's almost as if the problem weren't immigrants as such, but SJW anti-assimilation policies plus a concerted antisocial effort to annihilate the entire Christian and constitutional nature of American culture. And using mass immigration from anti- American proposition cultures a vileprog tools.

I wonder what would happen if we fought FOR that culture, and those propositions, and AGAINST those who were fighting to destroy it?

I'm not saying that hand-washing, Purel, and face masks won't be useful, but the problem is that we've got the plague. What really worries me is when you start going after the cats

Blogger Doom June 17, 2016 9:30 PM  

Cheddarman,

That's great! Because b.m.s seem to be all you are good for. As for pessimism? That... isn't pessimism. Not for me. Just a slice of reality. Pessimism, in my book, would mean being able to do nothing about it. We can, just not much. It's the do-gooders, who think they are going to save the world, as singularly or collectively, who fuck up the joint. Not those of us who know damn well better. Little bits, not much more, don't expect more, but keep trying anyway. It's... easy. Mostly, the only thing you might improve, and only for a while because everybody fails, then dies, is yourself.

I always did suggest, if I wanted a weak man's opinion, I'd choke it out of him. You prove the point. What I seem to choke out of you proves the value, and why I rarely do so. And I am always at ease. May not seem it. Though the trick to being at ease is to become comfortable being outrageously pissed off all of the time. *smile* *blink blink*

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