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Monday, June 20, 2016

The case for a populist conservatism

Breitbart's new columnist, Scott Morefield, explains:
For their own survival, it’s time for conservatives to become populists.

By making immigration his central campaign issue early on, Donald Trump did just that, speaking to something that hits home for many if not most Americans. We wonder why our betters insist on bringing in two immigrants for every job created when American wages have been stagnant for decades. We ask why it’s so imperative that masses of unassimilable and unscreened Muslims be brought to our shores from regions which we’ve helped destabilize in the first place. Why must our border with Mexico be a sieve that allows anyone and everyone to enter, while Americans who marry foreigners and try to get them a legal permanent resident card face so much red tape?

The burden illegal immigration from the Third World imposes on American society is a steep one, yet one that only ordinary Americans unable to afford high fences and Gulfstream jets have to pay. We know that 25 percent of Federal prisons are filled with illegal aliens, and we know about high-profile cases like the tragic murder of Kate Steinle (often thanks to Donald Trump), but actual figures for illegal alien crime are hard to find because, as a 2015 FoxNews.com story laments, “the government agencies that crunch crime numbers are utterly unable — or unwilling — to pinpoint for the public how many illegal immigrants are arrested within U.S. borders each year.”

According to the FoxNews.com story, which examined data from several unaffiliated sources to come up with the numbers the government doesn’t want to give, the nation’s approximately 11.7 million illegal immigrants are responsible for 12 percent of all murder sentences, 20 percent of all kidnapping sentences, 16 percent of all drug trafficking sentences, and 13.6 percent of ALL sentenced offenders in the U.S.

Additionally, according to the Heritage Foundation, American taxpayers are on the hook to the tune of almost $20,000 for every low-skilled immigrant household, which pays roughly $10,000 in taxes while using $30,000 in government services. In fact, 57 percent of all immigrant household with children use at least one welfare program.

22 million Americans are currently looking for full-time work while at least 8 million full-time jobs are held by illegal immigrants. But but but… our elites tell us we must bring in more, and in ever increasing numbers, yet ordinary Americans wonder why … and side with Donald Trump.
It's a good column, but it is not a sufficient one, because the primary problem is not the burden that illegal immigration imposes; that is the secondary problem. The primary problem it is the burden that legal immigration imposes on Americans.

The article's focus on illegal immigration always signifies a conservative who still shies away from addressing the problem directly. But it really doesn't matter if an immigrant comes illegally or not, the problem is that he is in the USA, and not in his native land.

Conservatives cannot successfully address populist concerns while they insist on focusing on side issues rather than the main problems.

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63 Comments:

Blogger Timmy3 June 20, 2016 4:14 PM  

I would hesitate to go with populism. The problem with adopting populism is the baggage it imposes, it latches on to socialism and big labor, and it is missing the nationalist component. Even nationalism has its own problems. The nation has moved so far that the American flag is not so well regarded and respected anymore. Then you have the Conservative descriptor that means nothing in politics and is so loaded in social and religious settings. We are left without a name.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 20, 2016 4:17 PM  

Admit it Magic Dirt casts quite a spell. The other day I saw some pathetic old Chinese guy on the hiking and biking trail and for a moment I had some pity till I thought about how he is probably on some Social Security or welfare program that takes from my family and then I thought to myself "fuck him."

Fuck him, his family which cheats me and especially the virtue signalers who are the worst of the lot and deserve some neck burns from rope.

Blogger RobertT June 20, 2016 4:28 PM  

1. Timothy 3

It's my take that America is turning to nationalist populism, not that it matters what I happen to think. But none of the issues you cited are inherent to either movement. Right now we don't even know where they are going. Both are still in the early stages. All we know is they are a damned sight better than the status quo.

Blogger praetorian June 20, 2016 4:43 PM  

Even nationalism has its own problems.

No shit?

Look, nationalism is the only option at this point. No system is perfect, but look around: conservatism couldn't even conserve female-only bathrooms, and libertarianism is naked fat guys running around on stage talking about making pot legal in all 50 states.

Get on board and stop being a faggot.

Blogger Timmy3 June 20, 2016 4:50 PM  

"Get on board and stop being a faggot."

Win by name calling? You're a jerk. I'm just trying to figure out the best way forward. I agree with RobertT that Nationalist Populism might be good enough if we can define it away from it's baggage of the past, but maybe we are in Trump's Republican Party if he manages to win in November.

Blogger Escoffier June 20, 2016 5:02 PM  

The question on the table Timmy3 is are you now, or have you ever been a faggot?

And don't think I don't notice you dodging the question.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 20, 2016 5:24 PM  

I myself would never judge Timmy by his spit or swallow choices, the rest of you might but I am open minded.

Honestly you really can come by the term "faggot" by being a Peter Pan bitch.

But one time while in the USMC I seen a corpsman (yes he was gay) stand up to a bleeping n*gger when no one else would and my whole perception changed, I am truly a tolerant open minded man. No gratuitous homo bashing by me

Anonymous Dan June 20, 2016 5:26 PM  

Trump survives assassination attempt, 4pm eastern, 6/20:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/06e5955c55a94a8bbb142adeca597213/authorities-man-vegas-rally-said-he-wanted-kill-trump

Anonymous johnc June 20, 2016 5:28 PM  

Unfortunately Trump is on the wrong side of the legal immigration issue as well. Hopefully he doesn't "solve" illegal immigration by simply opening the flood gates.

Anonymous AltTrash June 20, 2016 5:32 PM  

If it's not a propositional nation then it's just a collection of racist bullies surrounded by lines. How'd that work out for the south?

Anonymous Broken Arrow June 20, 2016 5:33 PM  

This is why I wonder what will happen to the GOP if Trump loses. There's no way it can go back to the party of Romney and McCain and expect to ever win again, and if it loses and attempts to purge the Trump nationalists/populists it guts most of the base.

What's the Jeb! 2.0 platform? Immigrants are even better you more now than the last time I ran?

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents June 20, 2016 5:33 PM  

Morefield has a not very good mix of rhetoric and dialectic, and he’s out of date with this “illegals cost money” approach.

The West is being colonized. We aren’t dealing with immigrants, we are dealing with colonizers.

Colonizers, thieves, rapists. Child rapists all too often. Illegal or legal, I Do Not Care, just remove them from what’s left of my nation.

Blogger dienw June 20, 2016 5:34 PM  

Nationalist Populism
I see nothing wrong with this concept. If conservatism is not for the preservation and advancement of its nation, what is it for; if conservatism does not serve the well-being of its nation's people whom does it serve? The Preamble of the Constitution begins with We the People; that is the sufficient and necessary focus of conservatism; it is "We the People," not we the Monarchs, Aristocrats, Priests, Oligarchs, or We the (((Bankers))).

The Preamble sets forth the general principles and goals of a government founded on National Populism.

Blogger Jourdan June 20, 2016 5:42 PM  

Any commentator who doesn't point out that the massive legal and illegal immigration of Mexicans is substantially different from earlier migrant waves in that the newcomers are bringing with them a historic claim to a quarter of the sovereign territory isn't serious. Strikes me was more useless east-coast cuckservatism a la NRO. Out of touch, out of time.

Blogger Bibliotheca Servare June 20, 2016 6:05 PM  

I'm pretty sure this has been said before, but I can't recall how you responded to it, so I'm going to risk asking it again and thus looking like a fool: is it wrong to suggest that halting the unrelenting, ever-growing, torrential flood of illegal immigration before turning to the problem of large masses of unassimilated (assuming, for the sake of argument at least, that assimilation is possible, though difficult and dependent on the existence of a drive to assimilate in the person in question) legal immigrants whose refusal to assimilate and desire to instead change America into the nations they left has been incredibly destructive to American freedoms and so on...is like staunching the flow of blood from a grievous wound before treating the similarly deadly infection the patient has? Wow that was a long sentence. Sorry. Basically, if we can stop all or most *illegal* immigration, shouldn't that make it easier to then halt or severely restrict the flow of *legal* immigrants and institute a thorough and comprehensive system for vetting and eventually approving the immigration and assimilation of only those persons whose contributions to American society and culture are anticipated (based, again, on strict criteria, though I hesitate to suggest what those criteria might be) to be a net benefit? (like, say, Milo Yiannopoulos, or, in my opinion, Sarah Hoyt, or Dave Freer -damn those Australian bastards! Or Tasmanian, I guess? I blame them...Heh- or Peter Grant) Or am I hugely missing the point? Thanks in advance, and God bless. :-)

Blogger Rusty Fife June 20, 2016 6:16 PM  

Jourdan wrote:Any commentator who doesn't point out that the massive legal and illegal immigration of Mexicans is substantially different from earlier migrant waves in that the newcomers are bringing with them a historic claim to a quarter of the sovereign territory isn't serious. Strikes me was more useless east-coast cuckservatism a la NRO. Out of touch, out of time.

The bankers did manage to murder off a few thousand of the Irish during the Civil War to solve some of those integration problems.

Blogger Rusty Fife June 20, 2016 6:21 PM  

@15 Bibliotheca Servare

We don't need them to pick our cotton. Automation will shortly be putting the majority of our workforce at risk; this includes professions like doctors and lawyers.

Half of the Americans that graduate with STEM degrees get work in STEM.

Blogger Were-Puppy June 20, 2016 6:22 PM  

@4 praetorian

Get on board and stop being a faggot.
---

Oh man, you remind me of that meme somebody around here has - with Trump in a car and a gun yelling at a faggot

Blogger Were-Puppy June 20, 2016 6:25 PM  

@11 Broken Arrow
This is why I wonder what will happen to the GOP if Trump loses.
---

GOP is pretty much dead if that happens. A party of virtue signalling Cuckservatives selling out the country while neocons start wars with Russia? Great platform there

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 20, 2016 6:28 PM  

AltTrash wrote:If it's not a propositional nation then it's just a collection of racist bullies surrounded by lines. How'd that work out for the south?
So, what's the proposition, fagget?

Whatever you claim the proposition to be, I will here and now guarantee it to be a pack of lies.


Heh, he called me raaaaaciss. Heh, fagget.

Blogger Were-Puppy June 20, 2016 6:28 PM  

In the South, we say "Fag, GIT!"

Anonymous Eric the Red June 20, 2016 6:34 PM  

The only proposition that can survive invite-the-world colonizers overrunning nonexistent borders, is the complete lack of any proposition at all.

So tell us again, Trash, why are you a homophobic terrorist sympathizer?

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents June 20, 2016 6:40 PM  

If Trump loses the GOPe finds out what it’s like to be an army made up entirely of generals, because a lot of the peasants are done with GOPe. Something more viable will take its place, something that would never nominate Mittens for a start.

The other day I listened to some aging boomer midwits go on about how Trump had no chance, and would be the death of the GOP. I thought about saying this: You can’t kill a corpse. But I said nothing - what’s the point of engaging ignorant midwits?

A more interesting question: what will happen to the GOP if Trump wins? More to the point, what will happen to the GOPe in that case?

Trump’s capable of firing people. GOPe as a whole needs to be fired. Multi time losers need to be replaced. Trump needs to turn a major search loose for those replacements.

Anonymous Mr. Rational June 20, 2016 6:49 PM  

http://alexanderhiggins.com/stanford-berkley-study-1-77-billion-chance-hillary-won-primary-without-widespread-election-fraud/

Blogger weka June 20, 2016 7:04 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Bibliotheca Servare June 20, 2016 7:11 PM  

What? I'm not sure where you got the idea I thought we *did* "need them to pick our cotton"... All I wanted to know was whether it was foolish to view the flow of illegal immigration as similar to a severely bleeding wound, and the already present undesired immigrants as analgous to an infection. What are you trying to tell me? *puzzled expression*

Anonymous johnc June 20, 2016 7:30 PM  

@19 GOP is pretty much dead if that happens. A party of virtue signalling Cuckservatives selling out the country while neocons start wars with Russia? Great platform there

I'd have to say, Putin makes some pretty decent points:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBTBBNOtbhM

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents June 20, 2016 7:31 PM  

All I wanted to know was whether it was foolish to view the flow of illegal immigration as similar to a severely bleeding wound, and the already present undesired immigrants as analgous to an infection

Yes it is. Because we are being colonized. Millions of illegal colonizers, that’s a problem. One million new colonists every year legally is also a problem.

The US and the rest of the West need a total freeze. Process the applications in the queue, slowly and carefully, and stop accepting any more. Millions of people in the Americas, in Africa and parts of Asia are planning to move to the West, and we can’t handle the ones already here.

Only a total shutdown, a “NO MORE” refusal will stem the flow. When every single rapefugee that reaches Europe gets put on a military aircraft bound for their home country the same day with no exceptions then this migration will slow down.

The other way the colonizers will give up is when they drag down the hosts to the level of their home country. So when the US becomes dirtier and more dangerous than Mexico, fewer Mexicans will bother to colonize. When Palermo becomes as unsafe and unsanitary as Lagos, then fewer Nigerians will bother to colonize.

Can we agree that stopping the colonizers is the better option?

Blogger praetorian June 20, 2016 7:33 PM  

Win by name calling? You're a jerk.

Yes. And yes.

MAGA

(Stop taking this so seriously, fam.)

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler June 20, 2016 7:34 PM  

This was one of the intercessions at the Local Catholic Church this past Sunday:

We pray for the continuing Unity of the Human Family, the rejection of borders, walls and barriers and the ending of racial prejudice and discrimination.

Needless to say, I walked out. The Catholic Church, clergy and laity, are thoroughly into One Worldism/Globalism.

Yes, we need to stop immigration but the 60 million Catholics are going to be a huge roadblock to populism/nationalism. John Kerry, a Roman Catholic, already said, "We are moving to a borderless world". That is the agenda. That is going to happen. The Church is working for that.

Basically the Catholic Church is in apostasy and heresy.

Anonymous BigGayKoranBurner June 20, 2016 8:18 PM  

Oh noes alt trash called me a racist bully homophobe what will I do? Hey altrash are you the black landlord that posted on the comments at SBPDL that complained about not being able to get a white Boyfriend?

which pays roughly $10,000 in taxes while using $30,000 in government services.

Doctors Without Borders fled Somalia because of all of their EMPLOYEES that got killed by savage moslems for doing things like triaging a Christian woman that was gang raped over a moslem man with a scratch on his face. However we import ~50IQ Somali moslems into the US as refusegees to be on benefits for life even needing classes on how to use toilets. The somali moslem resusegees are an even worse deal than illegal Mexicans, who at least contribute a paltry amount but they should all go.

Update on the 5yo Idaho girl raped by refusegees https://refugeeresettlementwatch.wordpress.com/2016/06/20/is-there-a-cover-up-in-twin-falls-idaho-involving-refugee-boys-raping-a-little-girl/

Even nationalism has its own problems...Get on board and stop being a faggot.

Not fair even faggots in London marched with the EDL because they know if the streets are not safe for a British soldier to walk in broad daylight without being beheaded & cops ignore 3rd world sand niggers raping little white British girls that they would do even less would be done for puffs.

Anonymous Godfrey June 20, 2016 8:19 PM  

"We are moving to a borderless world".

Says the man who lives in a gated community and bodyguards.


Anonymous Godfrey June 20, 2016 8:21 PM  

Bail-outs and crony deals for the rich...

... and labor market competition with third world immigrants for the poor.

What a great deal for the trash on top.

Anonymous Godfrey June 20, 2016 8:24 PM  

Israel has a wall.

Blogger praetorian June 20, 2016 8:32 PM  

Not fair even faggots in London marched with the EDL

I can concede the point.

Blogger bob k. mando June 20, 2016 8:49 PM  

10. AltTrash June 20, 2016 5:32 PM
How'd that work out for the south?



not so good when the North was intent on unilaterally destroying the Constitution and "respect for the principle of Law" by subverting and refusing to honor the agreement they signed in 1789 which required them to return all indentured servants and slaves to their masters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Four_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Clause_3:_Fugitive_Slave_Clause

that's right, every single member and organizer of the Underground Railroad was practicing Treason to the founding document of the United States.

and every northern judge and State which violated this explicit Constitutional requirement voided their participation in the Union de facto, whether or not they had the intellectual integrity necessary to secede and make their actions lawful.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler June 20, 2016 8:52 PM  

"They" don't care. Calling "Them" hypocrites---just makes them give you a puzzled look. They don't care. Being consistent is not their strong points--They don't care about being consistent. They don't care. They don't register.

It is no wonder that James Billingsly, in his book about Revolution, The Fire in the Minds of Men, talks of revolution as The Faith. It's a Faith---Facts, reason, and logic don't matter. They are above that. It's The Faith--and they're sticking to it. Full Steam Ahead.

Blogger Matthew June 20, 2016 9:07 PM  

Free trade isn't necessarily virtue signaling, but it might as well be.

Anyone who's not a race baiter is a race traitor.

Blogger Rusty Fife June 20, 2016 9:22 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Rusty Fife June 20, 2016 9:25 PM  

Bibliotheca Servare wrote:What? I'm not sure where you got the idea I thought we *did* "need them to pick our cotton"... All I wanted to know was whether it was foolish to view the flow of illegal immigration as similar to a severely bleeding wound, and the already present undesired immigrants as analgous to an infection. What are you trying to tell me? *puzzled expression*

I'm not medically inclined. Your analogy doesn't compute.

The phrase "we shoulda picked our own cotton", is in reference to the resulting problems from importing slaves.

By analogy, there is no reason to import ANY new immigrants; there are enough problems to solve with the ones we have now.

And no, we didn't need them to pick our cotton.

Anonymous Jack Amok June 20, 2016 9:44 PM  

All I wanted to know was whether it was foolish to view the flow of illegal immigration as similar to a severely bleeding wound, and the already present undesired immigrants as analgous to an infection.

It's a legitimate question. The problem with focusing on illegal immigration first is it leaves the door far too wide open for the cockishly inclined to lionize legal immigration, and it allows pro-invasionists to put forward plans that just re-define illegals into legal immigrants. Fast-track, amnesty, etc.

Not to mention the distinct possibility that illegal immigration is actually the lesser problem. Illegals don't vote (well, maybe in California) and in general have less participation in changing our culture than legal immigrants do.

Going after illegal immigration is a bit of psychological displacement, focusing on the smaller, less controversial problem instead of on the more important problem that's more likely to get you called names.

Blogger Thucydides June 20, 2016 10:17 PM  

For those of you looking for some intellectual ammunition you could try reading Samuel Huntington's last book "Who Are We?", which explicitly made the argument that large numbers of people arriving are not "immigrants" at all, but "settlers" to use his terminology.

As for how to solve the problem, *we* need to start thinking in 4GW terms. IF the root of the problem is the "elites" do not pay the price of illegal or legal immigration, then perhaps they should be made to see the price first hand. A little helping hand to let the "immigrants" know where all the good stuff really is should be all that it takes; seeing the gated communities stormed by hordes of their own creations will certainly change the modes of more than a few of the "elites", who will work with great speed and efficiency to solve the problem that shows up on their own doorsteps.

Blogger Bibliotheca Servare June 21, 2016 12:05 AM  

I agree, we didn't/don't need anyone to pick our cotton for us, alright? The analogy references the fact that when treating an injured patient, the standard sequence is to stop the leaking (bleeding) *then* fix the infection/broken leg/etc, because otherwise the patient could bleed to death while you treat him, and even if he doesn't, blood loss just exacerbates the other issues, so either way, stopping the leak first is usually the wisest course. I was asking if it made sense to compare illegal immigration to a serious leak/bleeding injury (or, say, a burst water pipe), and improperly managed/restricted legal immigration to an infection (or, perhaps, mold of some sort, or a cracked foundation. You would fix the pipe before dealing with the mold/foundation, right? Same principle.). Is that clearer, despite the terrible sentence structure and all the parenthetical statements? I'm a little tired now, so I might not be explaining this as well as I otherwise would. God bless! :-)

Blogger Bibliotheca Servare June 21, 2016 12:08 AM  

Huh. I'm too tired to really process and respond to your points right now (It's 12AM here) but I wanted to acknowledge your reply, and thank you for making it. It seemed rude not to, given that I responded to Rusty Fife, y'know? God bless. :-)

Blogger Were-Puppy June 21, 2016 12:28 AM  

@30 W.LindsayWheeler

Basically the Catholic Church is in apostasy and heresy.
---

I remember reading some document about Catholic Charities being one of the biggies who is helping "resettle" syrian rapefugees here in the US.

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit June 21, 2016 3:52 AM  

You are a very very odd sort of nationalist, Mr Day.

It seems to me, that were one to consider only the good of the United States of America, and no other nation whatsoever, one would demand immigration, albeit limited and targeted.

The goal would be to skim the cream of every country's population: taking the most capable, intelligent, and innovative and liberty loving to improve our own stock. Better yet, as a "proposition nation" we would require those immigrants to adapt to our constitutional principles .

Indeed, the very proposition to which we adhere - Constitutinal self government (have I mentioned the value of reading De Toqueville? And design Custine?) - would allow us to select for the most useful people , whether they were black, brown, yellow, beige; so long as they subordinated their cultural values to those of the American proposition.

Why, if the United States of America were to do something like that, we could dominate the world culturally, economically, and militarily.

I wonder why that never happened considering that we in fact employed this very similar formula ages ago?

Oh wait, it did.

But then the Marxists did their best to undermine the very propositions on which the American experiment rested.

One of the tools they use is to import, en masse, vast quantities of people who despise the American proposition, American Constitutional principles, and what was once the underlying Christian worldview of our nation.

I am with you whole heartedly in your quest to stop this destruction. In the short term, this does require fighting immigration, both "legal" and illegal.

But I submit to you that you are throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Your fight against the Conservatives, is an attack on the very propositions that made America great. You are in effect allying with the very Marxists who have been attempting - successfully - to destroy us.

Anonymous SciVo June 21, 2016 4:37 AM  

@46: Big Hobbit,

I can identify several problems with your proposition. One is that it is not necessarily to our advantage to bring the best and brightest of the world here, as they may domestically out-compete our own, and we should have more sympathy for our own than for aliens.

For another, we cannot even bring all our co-ethnics to respect our Constitutional principles. We need to freeze all immigration until we have a stable culture.

You have a very naive conception of how we got where we are; the Columbian Empire has its place through shear violence and threat of violence, with access to monies.

The problem is not Marxism but Imperialism. If we banished Marxism tomorrow, we would still be oppressed by Columbians having orgasms over suppressing our rights.

Blogger Gaiseric June 21, 2016 9:50 AM  

@46: The fatal flaws with this argument are that it presupposes that the proposition will be something that these targeted immigrants actually buy into (dubious at best) and it relies on an implied history of such successful targeted minorities of various races in open defiance of what ACTUALLY happened with regards to the founding population of the US and the first many decades of immigration after the founding of the country, where the entirety of the founding population was from within the Hajnal line, and in fact was so strongly skewed towards British as to make everyone else (Dutch, German, Huguenot, etc.) a tiny minority.

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit June 21, 2016 12:22 PM  

we need to freeze all immigration until we have a stable culture

Agreed.

But getting there from here is the rub. Why make it harder? Why pretend that there was never a "there" to begin with, and make racial solidarity more important than ant-Marxist (anti SJW) solidarity?

It's not that tribalism hasn't been forced upon us, but why pretend it's a good thing?

It's as foolish to pretend that you're suffering from poison ivy as to fantasize that there is no rash when you've got the great pox.

Blogger rumpole5 June 21, 2016 1:35 PM  

Actually we did need them to pick our cotton. They let my German ancestors off the boat because they were needed to clear the land and develop a civilization. Same with the Africans. The point is that NOW we HAVE the land developed and we HAVE a civilization. A Western one (more or less). Now is the time to stop all further immigration that will screw up that civilization.

Blogger rumpole5 June 21, 2016 1:37 PM  

Japan does just fine without immigration, and we can also.

Blogger rumpole5 June 21, 2016 1:50 PM  

"Germans = tiny minority". Wrong! The Germans (left wing philosophies and over confidence in government), the Irish (political corruption), and the Italians (Mafia) , all degraded the American culture in really significant ways. We are very lucky to have preserved and salvaged as much of the Anglo Saxon "rights of Englishmen" culture as we have. Not only should we limit immigration, but we should also limit Judges on the supreme court to the descendants of Anglo Saxon protestants present in 1776.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 21, 2016 2:58 PM  

The Overgrown Hobbit wrote:It's not that tribalism hasn't been forced upon us, but why pretend it's a good thing?

Why maintain it is a bad thing. You've seen how murder runs rampant and men are ruthlessly enslaved when tribalism is overthrown.
What's wrong with tribalism?

rumpole5 wrote:Not only should we limit immigration, but we should also limit Judges on the supreme court to the descendants of Anglo Saxon protestants present in 1776.

Problem is, they're the worst offenders. The Unitarian Church is the descendant of the Puritans. Earl Warren, David Souter and Oliver Wendell Holmes were WASPs. Clarence Thomas and Antonin Scalia were not.

Blogger Akulkis June 21, 2016 4:21 PM  

@30

"Basically the Catholic Church is in apostasy and heresy."

It's been so for at least 600 years... Good to see you figuring that out now.

The Roman church strayed from the path as soon as it allowed praying to dead people (necromancy) and statues of dead people (idolotry) instead of praying to God.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd June 21, 2016 5:08 PM  

@54 akulkis: It's good to see you calling it Roman instead of Catholic. The Roman church hasn't been catholic since they schismed from Orthodoxy all those many years ago.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 21, 2016 5:08 PM  

Akulkis wrote:The Roman church strayed from the path as soon as it allowed praying to dead people (necromancy) and statues of dead people (idolotry) instead of praying to God.

Your ignorance of theology is exceeded only by your ignorance of Catholicism.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd June 21, 2016 5:15 PM  

@56 snidely: The Roman church does encourage praying to saints, who are dead. They are supposed to pray in front of statues, not to them, but some Romans seem to gloss over that distinction, and sometimes attribute magic powers to the statues to which they pray.

There is no reason a good Roman _can't_ be a good Christian, but within the Roman church, there seems to be no reason why he _should_ be.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 21, 2016 5:47 PM  

Do you ask your friends to pray for you?

Your friends who are in heaven can hear you. They live in Christ. They can pray for you too.

Have you ever asked them to pray for you?

You know NOTHING of Catholicism.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd June 21, 2016 6:06 PM  

@58: I have learned about the Roman schism from Roman seminarians and ex-seminarians, and from laymen, some of whom were also Christians.

My Roman friends who told me about the Roman church probably didn't know much about it. That's always been one of the flaws of the Roman schism: they encourage the flock to leave spiritual stuff to the experts, so what the Roman church thinks they teach is not always what the believers learn.

Since you know so much about the Roman church, I won't bore you by listing any more of their flaws.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd June 21, 2016 6:15 PM  

@58 ``Your friends who are in heaven can hear you.''

By the way, can you give me a citation from the bible to support this? I can't think of any, except perhaps a misreading of Revelations 6:10.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 21, 2016 6:55 PM  

Ominous Cowherd wrote:I have learned about the Roman schism from Roman seminarians and ex-seminarians, and from laymen, some of whom were also Christians.

Translation ex-Catholics with an animus against the Church.

"Roman Schism." -- lie #2, you left us. Admit it.

Anonymous Mr. Rational June 22, 2016 12:05 AM  

rumpole5 wrote:The Germans (left wing philosophies and over confidence in government), the Irish (political corruption), and the Italians (Mafia) , all degraded the American culture in really significant ways. We are very lucky to have preserved and salvaged as much of the Anglo Saxon "rights of Englishmen" culture as we have.
Note that the Saxons stem from Saxony, IOW Germans.

Germans have been edging away from socialism over the generations.  This is why the (((PTB))) have been working so hard to import Marxicans from south of the border to push the political balance in their preferred direction.  Removing the indio and mestizo Marxicans would shove US politics back toward liberty, HARD.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd June 22, 2016 1:39 PM  

Snidely, I was thinking of the first schism, when the bishop of Rome announced that he was Peter's heir and the other bishops were to bow down to him. The other bishops laughed and walked out. I'd say that was Rome leaving Orthodoxy.

In the later schism, when Martin Luther became a Christian, he left the Roman church, whose hierarchy was not then Christian.

As for your translation, I never knew that the priest who celebrated mass at the church I attended with my Roman friends was an ex-catholic with animus against the church.

I've learned about the Roman church from stalwart practicing members, and from people who referred to themselves as ``recovering catholics.'' Never saw much animus from either group. The ones who left had reasons, and so did the ones who never thought to leave.

Back to my question in 60: is there a biblical source for that, or is that another Roman tradition?

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