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Wednesday, June 29, 2016

The education of the SJWs

This is exactly how you respond to SJW entryism:
I was able to get a summer internship at a company that does work in the industry I want to work in after I graduate. Even though the division I was hired to work in doesn’t deal with clients or customers, there still was a very strict dress code. I felt the dress code was overly strict but I wasn’t going to say anything, until I noticed one of the workers always wore flat shoes that were made from a fabric other than leather, or running shoes, even though both of these things were contrary to the dress code.

I spoke with my manager about being allowed some leeway under the dress code and was told this was not possible, despite the other person being allowed to do it. I soon found out that many of the other interns felt the same way, and the ones who asked their managers about it were told the same thing as me. We decided to write a proposal stating why we should be allowed someone leeway under the dress code. We accompanied the proposal with a petition, signed by all of the interns (except for one who declined to sign it) and gave it to our managers to consider. Our proposal requested that we also be allowed to wear running shoes and non leather flats, as well as sandals (not flip-flops though) and other non-dress shoes that would fit under a more business casual dress code. It was mostly about the footwear, but we also incorporated a request that we not have to wear suits and/or blazers in favor of a more casual, but still professional dress code.

The next day, all of us who signed the petition were called into a meeting where we thought our proposal would be discussed. Instead, we were informed that due to our “unprofessional” behavior, we were being let go from our internships. We were told to hand in our ID badges and to gather our things and leave the property ASAP.

We were shocked.
FANTASTIC! That, ladies and gentlemen, is the optimal way to handle SJWs. Once they positively identify themselves as such, fire them and have them immediately escorted off the property.

For more on how to deal with SJWs, well, you know where to find it.

Labels:

219 Comments:

1 – 200 of 219 Newer› Newest»
Blogger David-2 June 29, 2016 11:09 AM  

I have never had a job before (I’ve always focused on school) and I was hoping to gain some experience before I graduate next year.

Mission accomplished!

Blogger Rational Thinker June 29, 2016 11:10 AM  

Looks like the schools these people went to taught them the wrong lessons.

Anonymous WinstonWebb June 29, 2016 11:15 AM  


We were shocked.


Need a hug?

Blogger Dave June 29, 2016 11:23 AM  

never had a job before

ssssurprise sssssurprise

Anonymous Broken Arrow June 29, 2016 11:24 AM  

Millennials, they think that if something is really important to them that it should be discussed and acted on by higher ups. Nope, your opinion rarely matters, and you also don't get one on one time with the CEO because something matters to you.

Blogger Unknown June 29, 2016 11:26 AM  

Lol. The guy who declined to sign it. Haha! He knew what was up.

Anonymous Fran June 29, 2016 11:27 AM  

Now they are going to go cry to their professors, media buddies and to dem politicians. They will correct this injustice!

Blogger Josh June 29, 2016 11:27 AM  

This is outstanding

Anonymous BGKB June 29, 2016 11:27 AM  

Here is a former German refusegee volunteer that got enraged at the larger free apartment a refusgee can get, bigger that what he can afford himself.
http://www.germanjoys.eu/2016/06/he-believes-nobody-in-german-has-to-work-they-get-free-money-from-the-government-this-is-a-common-belief-in-syria.html

Blogger Tom June 29, 2016 11:32 AM  

Yeah, this is lesson schools don't teach. Nobody gets to fail any more.

OpenID b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440 June 29, 2016 11:33 AM  

Most interns need to realize the janitor provides more value to the company than they do.

I am also impressed that one guy was able to withstand the hive all by himself. If he is even just competent at performing his actual task, his character and resolve alone are worth keeping long term.

Anonymous Regular Expression June 29, 2016 11:35 AM  

They thought that a workplace is the same thing as their university where activism is accepted and encouraged.

Blogger Josh June 29, 2016 11:36 AM  

#banmillenials

Blogger slarrow June 29, 2016 11:37 AM  

I'm pleasantly surprised that the advice giver actually told them (in polite language) how dumb that move was and how they were so far out of line to even approach it that way. The petition is the huge tell for SJW, and the company was smart to ditch them.

Oh, and it's astonishing that they didn't find out about the reason for the exception until they'd worked up all this nonsense. A simple "how strict is the dress code, because X doesn't always seem to follow it?" would have nipped that in the bud. But self-righteous political activity is just too tempting for some fools.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr June 29, 2016 11:37 AM  

I suspect the guy who didn't sign on lost his intern position, too. Traded it in for a full-time job.

Anonymous SciVo June 29, 2016 11:38 AM  

Ah, the Snowflake Generation. It's a small thing, so it doesn't really matter, right? No, if you can't even handle doing what's easy -- like following a dress code -- then you can't be trusted to do the right thing when it's hard.

They should sue their parents and every teacher for failing to transmit that one most basic lesson for getting on in business and other relationships. That petition was like slapping on a nametag Petty McThief, and saying that your career goal is "multi-million dollar embezzlement."

Blogger Tom June 29, 2016 11:40 AM  

Like I just did by leaving out a word from my comment. Yeesh.

Anonymous zapbrannigan1 June 29, 2016 11:40 AM  

Sandals? In a professional environment? Look, if the dress code is suit and tie and you ask if you can wear freaking SANDALS you're simply being dense.

There are actually very few professions left with a dress code as restrictive as the one described here. Here are the ones I can think of off the top of my head:

Legal
Banking
High-end service (hotels, resorts, etc.)
Luxury sales (cars, fine jewelry, watches, etc.)

I'm sure I'm missing some, but the point is that all of these professions involve the transfer of large, in some cases enormous, sums of money. Taking that much money from a client requires trust. Trust requires professionalism. Professionalism is communicated by confidence, competence, and APPEARANCE. Even if this person was not in a client-facing role, there is always an off chance that he could meet a client, or get pulled into a meeting with one, or even run into one in the bathroom. You walk around with a loose shirt tail and sandals and the whole image of the institution takes a hit.

To take the time to draft a damn petition to break the rules of the dress code told their superiors everything they needed to know about this newest crop of interns. Their reaction was harsh, but completely defensible.

OpenID b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440 June 29, 2016 11:42 AM  

@14 In addition to just being poor form and an invasion of privacy for the manager to disclose the disability, it could also be a HIPAA violation since its a medical accommodation under the ADA.

Blogger Alexander June 29, 2016 11:45 AM  

Imagine going to the hospital and finding your surgeon in sandals. Or getting on a plane and seeing the pilot...

Now, not every profession is a surgeon or a pilot, but it strikes me as common sense that all else being equal, you'd like people to look at you and their judgement to err in that direction.

Blogger David-2 June 29, 2016 11:48 AM  

Something I also found rather telling was that they hadn't even taken an inch before they tried to take a mile. (That's sort of mangled, I know.) First she's all about their obviously reasonable small unobjectionable request to be allowed different shoe types. But then she slips this in: we also incorporated a request that we not have to wear suits and/or blazers in favor of a more casual, but still professional dress code. In other words, without having won their first point (or done any investigation on it whatsoever) they're already demanding to overturn the entire dress code for their convenience/desires.

BTW, The proposal was written professionally like examples I have learned about in school. If they're learning in school that departments get together to sign petitions for changes in business practices that are to be presented to the employer, then the school is farther off into la-la land than I previously imagined. (And I have a good imagination.)

Blogger Dave June 29, 2016 11:50 AM  

The proposal was written professionally like examples I had learned about in school

But muh schooling!

Blogger Arthur Isaac June 29, 2016 11:50 AM  

Millenials......

Blogger Paul Leavenworth June 29, 2016 11:52 AM  

Excellent reaction by the company. If I were in charge of these interns I would have done exactly the same. Interns are there to see much and say little.

The writer of this letter should write the company apologizing and then another letter apologizing to the fellow interns who were fired. Hopefully the writer internalizes the true lesson coming from this - act like a spoiled child and you will get treated like a spoiled child.

Blogger slarrow June 29, 2016 11:54 AM  

@19, Yeah, I read further in the thread and noticed several folks bringing that up.

Blogger Shimshon June 29, 2016 11:55 AM  

I'm sure I'm not the only person here who had a job in high school? Even in elementary school, I worked in my mother's business (which was in our garage) packing orders in boxes for UPS pickups. I grew up in Beverly Hills, and even the kids in wealthy families often worked in high school.

Lack of any job experience seems to be the norm today.

You can truly see the sense of entitlement and lack of empathy at work when, even after learning that the code violator was a wounded vet, she didn't facepalm in embarrassment. Instead, "if we had known about this we would have factored it into our argument." As if that would have made a difference.

Blogger Derek Kite June 29, 2016 11:56 AM  

This is interesting. The first thing that people I train have to learn is that they know nothing. Nothing. Everything they think they know is probably wrong, at best useless. That is an incredibly hard thing to learn, and gets to who we are as a person. But from that basis they can learn, and learn they will of they intend to stick around.

If someone doesn't think it is necessary, well, put it this way, I have ways. The most effective is to put then on something with a veneer of complexity, let them get utterly confused, then show up, diagnose and fix the problem in five minutes while they stand slack jawed. There are three ways it will go. Either they quit, they realize the depth of effort required and buckle down, or they are encouraged to move along to some greener pastures.

These young eager twits got a valuable lesson in reality, hopefully some of them learned something.

Anonymous Iron Spartan June 29, 2016 11:57 AM  

The squeaky wheel gets replaced, especially when its brand new.

Blogger Alexander June 29, 2016 11:57 AM  

I had a boss who informed me that nine out of ten millennials would ask for exemptions and be allowed to telecommute from home during the job interview.

I worked retail for two years, and the manager shared the fact that during the hiring process, the first thing he does is looks at home address, e-mail, and prior work experience: if two of the three are [State U], it goes straight in the trash. It's too much of a hassle to bother with them because all they want to do is talk about how much better the store would be if they changed X and Y.

Blogger wasu June 29, 2016 11:58 AM  

Let me quote one of comments, that I find very valuable:

“Many of you have expressed dissatisfaction with the rule about eating and drinking in the hallways. You point out to me that every day you see teachers walking between the teacher’s lounge or their offices and their classrooms with cups of coffee in their hands. You’re right. This is what is known as a double standard. Different rules apply to you than apply to them. Everyone needs to get used to that.”

Equality is a SJW founding myth

Blogger Arthur Isaac June 29, 2016 11:59 AM  

I think it may serve many companies to circulate petitions like this on a semi regular basis.

Blogger Marie June 29, 2016 12:02 PM  

Hahahaha! INTERNS challenged the dress code??? How dumb are they? Did none of them run this past their parents?

Dress code is a viper's nest. Comply with it and shut up.

We had a lovely interview candidate, we asked her back in and I was prepared to make her an offer. As an opening, I asked if she had any questions for me. She started asking a lot of nit-picky questions about the dress code. I answered her questions and tossed her offer into the trash. I later told the boss and the HR director why and they took me out to lunch. Ha!

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction June 29, 2016 12:06 PM  

@22

Methinks the special snowflake doesn't know that it isn't forms and language that make a professional...it's the attitude.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 29, 2016 12:08 PM  

I have never had a job before (I’ve always focused on school)

That's surely one factor in how they can be SJW-level naive about how the real world works. I worked part-time for a neighboring farmer and raised and sold my own livestock by age 15. My dad hired other boys from the area for summer farm work, so I wasn't atypical. Most Gen-X kids worked at something, after school and in the summer, and still got edumacated.

These 20-something children are so clueless and helpless it's a wonder they can dress themselves -- oh wait, they can't.

Blogger kmbr June 29, 2016 12:09 PM  

**Lack of any job experience seems to be the norm today**

Can you imagine? Think of all the prime years being wasted, learning nothing. Look back on all those crap jobs you had and the valuable skills you did not know you were learning.

My family was in the restaurant business and as such, being an attractive girl, they threw me behind the bar and taught me how to our a draft beer, lol---

I was a pretty shy kid. Those skills I learned bartending from age 16-23--taught me SO much. I can read people insanely well, I can strike up a conversation with a tree stump, I can deal with difficult personalities in the work place like a champ and I could probably sell sand to an Arab.

My daughter is 18, in college and she has two jobs right now. She teaches ballet to little girls at the city rec center and she has a retail sort of job. Well, the retail jobs in this age are actually more sales orientated. She gets a list every week of customers to call and tell of the promotions. This is fabulous because as most in her generation--she is terrified of the phone. At 18 she STILL begs me to call the salon for her to make her appointments. Now she is forced to call random strangers---

I tell her all the time, "If you conquer these skills of learning to speak to and sell people--you are going to be light years ahead of your peers" and it's mostly true.

My neighbor's kid is 23. Graduated two years ago with a math degree. This kid not only does not have a job but I am not joking when I tell you the bastard doesn't leave the house.

I work from home so I am in and out all day and his car is there, nearly, 24/7. TWO YEARS--two prime years of his life. Wasted, I presume surfing the internet, playing video games and internet porn.

He's a snarky little f'er too so I am guessing most jobs are beneath him.

Blogger Tank June 29, 2016 12:10 PM  

The lower you are on the totem pole, the more important dressing "up" is. Even if you don't like it, in business, law, etc, this is more important for women and blacks than men and whites. It just is.

Blogger Gaiseric June 29, 2016 12:17 PM  

b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440 wrote:@14 In addition to just being poor form and an invasion of privacy for the manager to disclose the disability, it could also be a HIPAA violation since its a medical accommodation under the ADA.
Or it's common knowledge to everyone who worked at the company full time and the only reason the interns didn't know about it is because they'd only been there a few days.

Anonymous Freestater June 29, 2016 12:26 PM  

" I had a boss who informed me that nine out of ten millennials would ask for exemptions and be allowed to telecommute from home during the job interview."

It makes sense in today's world. Thanks to video conferencing software, the Internet, and Multi user Accounting and ERP software much of what I do can also be done from home and does not actually require me to sit in an office all day. I actually won't even accept a job without being able to work at home at least one day a week, it's really a waste of my time and the businesses time sitting at a desk waiting for phone calls and e-mails. It wouldn't surprise me at all if millennials request the same thing, the world has changed, many jobs can be outsourced, done at home,or automatized.

Blogger Happy Housewife June 29, 2016 12:26 PM  

One thing I had to learn the hard way, and that these hapless Millennials just learned, is that you don't start out on top, you aren't as important as you believe yourself to be, and your opinion ultimately doesn't matter in the long run. That isn't what you're taught in school, but if you're lucky, you discover it early on, that you are replaceable and that job security is a myth. Reality is a harsh teacher.

Anonymous Freestater June 29, 2016 12:28 PM  

And speaking of automatized jobs, have you met your Robo-lawyer yet?


http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/free-robotic-lawyer-appealed-3-million-parking-tickets/

Anonymous DJJ June 29, 2016 12:29 PM  

Waiting for the outcry when some of these kids with piercing and tats everywhere realize that some jobs will be a no go for them.

Blogger Eric Slate June 29, 2016 12:30 PM  

I started being leery about the guy after his first argument based on fairness. After he started trying to gather support from the other staff, I knew where that was going.

Incidentally, there are legitimate reasons for allowing shoe exceptions like this, including common diseases like arthritis. In high school, I worked under a boss that had such a condition we knew each other well enough, so she told me about it.

Blogger Eric Slate June 29, 2016 12:30 PM  

I started being leery about the guy after his first argument based on fairness. After he started trying to gather support from the other staff, I knew where that was going.

Incidentally, there are legitimate reasons for allowing shoe exceptions like this, including common diseases like arthritis. In high school, I worked under a boss that had such a condition we knew each other well enough, so she told me about it.

Blogger Eric Slate June 29, 2016 12:30 PM  

I started being leery about the guy after his first argument based on fairness. After he started trying to gather support from the other staff, I knew where that was going.

Incidentally, there are legitimate reasons for allowing shoe exceptions like this, including common diseases like arthritis. In high school, I worked under a boss that had such a condition we knew each other well enough, so she told me about it.

Anonymous rubberducky June 29, 2016 12:31 PM  

BRAVO to whatever company that was. They have taught this young lady a very valuable lesson, I hope she learns it. She has been done a favor.

Anonymous Faceless June 29, 2016 12:31 PM  

@38

You can do that when the person has some knowledge or skill of value. The problem with putting entry level people on telecommute: they don't pick stuff up, they don't cleave to the culture, they don't pick up the arcane knowledge of how the organization works, and so they are a net drain and will probably be let go at the first opportunity. Their value is in being a ready hand to help and a quick study - two things that are hard to do in a telecommute environment.

Blogger wasu June 29, 2016 12:34 PM  

@38
If they ask at job interview - it is a part of job condition negotiation and manager can agree to offer or not .. where is a problem in that?

Anonymous Case June 29, 2016 12:39 PM  

The dress code wasn't the real issue. The kids just wanted to see if they could exert influence over the company.

Blogger kmbr June 29, 2016 12:40 PM  

@46 ou can do that when the person has some knowledge or skill of value

Agree. A sales exec with countless years of an office-free professional life--and who has an income primarily dependent on delivering numbers. Yeah, probably no issue.

A 23 year old with no valuable experience, um...probably not.

I find, in many instances, a work from home works best when the person is a known quantity first. And even then, I have seen it abused--HUGELY.

Anonymous Quartermaster June 29, 2016 12:41 PM  

I had to laugh at the poor special snowflake. Pulling something like that as an intern was laying your neck across a block, handing someone an ax and saying "pretty please?"

When I was finishing Engineering School the department chairman, who was teaching the required course on Professional Ethics talked about behavior when you first arrive on your first job. He said, "Keep your mouth shut and speak when spoken to. Dress well, not casually, like a professional. You've learned a lot here, but what you have is a tool box and then you will start learning how to use those tools. If you go in with the attitude that the world owes a lot simply because you have a sheep skin, you will be rapidly disabused of that notion."

I had already worked professionally as a Surveyor, but I thought the advice he gave was dead on and everybody I've met who was a classmate took his advice and has done well.

Anonymous Freestater June 29, 2016 12:42 PM  

@46

I agree as far as entry level goes. You should always get a feel for the workflow of the company before you know if it is a good idea to ask for telecommuting or not.If you have no experience than you will have no way to gauge what can or cannot be done from home and how long it should take.

Blogger Chiva June 29, 2016 12:47 PM  

@Quartermaster

That was good advice given.

Anonymous gxg June 29, 2016 12:51 PM  

Five years ago, I was working at a government agency when a bunch of Millennials pulled something similar. It wasn't about the dress code, but other stuff -- the culture, how their ideas were being stifled, how the organization needed to be more flexible, how we needed more lounges and what-not so young people could get away from their desks and foster more creativity.

And here's what happened: From the top down, task forces were created to address their concerns and figure out how we could better serve them. I had to serve on one of these task forces. As a cynical, uncoddled Gen-X, you can imagine my enthusiasm for this stupidity.

I'm not working there anymore, but I'm certain the coddling continues. Of course, government institutions don't have to be productive, so it's all good, right?

Blogger scottb June 29, 2016 12:54 PM  

Good points about them not having jobs. Getting harder and harder for kids to find jobs these days with sky rocketing min wages. Teenager Jobs were bountiful back in the late 90s at $5/hr

Blogger S1AL June 29, 2016 1:03 PM  

@scottb - I know it's easy to lose sight of inflation, but $5/hr in the late 90's is at least $9/hr today, often more. I'm not defending min wage laws, since they make no sense at anything above county level, but it's not just about min wage.

Blogger VD June 29, 2016 1:05 PM  

It makes sense in today's world.

No, it makes none at all. I am a massive advocate of telecommuting, but you have to be almost criminally stupid, or an SJW, to ask for an EXEMPTION as an INTERN.

The company was absolutely right to fire them all. They're not only morons, they were guaranteed to be disruptive and have negative value to the company.

Blogger Gaiseric June 29, 2016 1:11 PM  

wasu wrote:@38
If they ask at job interview - it is a part of job condition negotiation and manager can agree to offer or not .. where is a problem in that?

No problem in theory. The problem is in the over-valuing of their own worth.

They'll probably figure that one out soon enough when they don't get job offers, though. Especially if someone is nice enough to tell them why they're not getting a job offer.

Besides; the time to negotiate the settlement of your employment is after you've already been offered employment; not when they're trying to evaluate if you're what they want or not. Again; you can make exceptions if you are more valuable to the organization trying to hire you than they are to you. But if you think that's the case when it's not, you're just signaling that you're a poor fit.

Blogger Alexamenos June 29, 2016 1:12 PM  

Yup. They were there to learn and were trying to teach. They had an ass kicking coming for being so presumptuous.

Anonymous SciVo June 29, 2016 1:13 PM  

@54: Also a lot of those first jobs have been taken by adult immigrants. Fruit picking, lawn mowing, food service...

That loss of character-building is intangible but real.

Blogger Were-Puppy June 29, 2016 1:19 PM  

Excellent!

My only regret is lack of names for the SJW list.

This would be in my top 2 of spanking SJWs, right along with that Cimmerian episode

http://sjwlist.com/Category:The_Cimmerian

Blogger Sagramore June 29, 2016 1:20 PM  

My children are going to a school where they must wear a uniform, just as I did. Solves most of the problem.

Anonymous map June 29, 2016 1:20 PM  

Guys, the problem with this analysis is that I seriously doubt this company was acting in a way to prevent SJW's from influencing the firm. We don't know enough about this company to judge that it is an anti-SJW institution to begin with. Therefore, what I am seeing is a very callous disregard and mistreatment of young people that is going to blow back on society very negatively down the road.

The problem with all the talk about "work ethic" and "valuable skills" learned from crappy jobs is that they come from the "Old Economy Steve" types. I remember watching an episode of Barrett-Jackson where the announcer was gushing over a 1968 Camaro being auctioned for oodles of money. Do you know what his most telling comment was? When he mentioned that his Texas high school parking lot was filled with Camaros.

Think about that.

What the "Old Economy Steves" fail to tell people is that the crappy and menial jobs that they worked in high school that were teaching them "valuable skills" paid enough to fill parking lots full of Camaros. Or to pay for a semester of college. Or enough to raise a family on a single income after a high school graduation. What exactly does this experience really have to do with what young people are experiencing today? Can any of their part-time jobs or summer jobs put new Camaros in their parking lots or pay for a semester of college? You can't even live poorly on that.

And so these kids go to college to do better than working menial jobs. They get taught nonsense by adults and, when, through youthful indiscretion, they apply the nonsense being taught, they get fired. Now they are effectively knocked off a career path, from which they will never get back on and never recover. What is the point of this?

Sure, defending yourself against social justice warriors is necessary. But I doubt this is an example of that.



Anonymous Jack Arcalon June 29, 2016 1:20 PM  

Was surprised, thought the post would end up condemning the unreasonable, old-fashioned stultifying corporate culture. Should the hipster petionist apologize for their presumptuous request, or never apologize for their liberal beliefs?

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus June 29, 2016 1:21 PM  

People who own businesses are sooooooo mean!

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 29, 2016 1:21 PM  

Freestater wrote:much of what I do can also be done from home and does not actually require me to sit in an office all day. I actually won't even accept a job without being able to work at home at least one day a week, it's really a waste of my time

Presumably you are an experienced professional, with a track record of providing value. We're talking about entry-level people here.

I telecommute nearly full-time on my current job, as well as my previous one. I only go in for client meetings. But I didn't even think of bringing the subject up until I had been here 6 months, despite that 3 of my co-workers were half-time or full-time telecommuters. By that time, everyone knew I could deliver. Even then I came in one day a week for two years, just to be able to keep connection to my boss and co-workers. Then my boss and most of my co-workers got hired by the client and their replacements are in Mexico.

To ask for it at the job interview is preposterous, unless you know for a fact that the company is open to it for new employees. Many companies are not open to telecommuting at all, for good and sufficient reasons of their own, even if that reason is only that the boss prefers being able to see your face.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 29, 2016 1:23 PM  

As far as lack of job experience, there are no unskilled jobs for young White (or Black) people any more. They all go to immigrants.

Blogger Austin Ballast June 29, 2016 1:26 PM  

@56 VD,

That raises an interesting question about how businesses will ingest new talent that lacks experience if most or even all the workforce is remote. It could make getting that first job even harder.

Though this just points to the need to get experience somehow. Lots of non-profit and such ventures can use free labor where you can learn some skills. Those working in the infosec field can load an old laptop with Kali Linux and start learning the tools for free, or almost free if the laptop costs a bit. No excuse to not get experience.

@57 Gaiseric,

Asking about the working conditions is quite a valuable part of the interview process. I want to know if I want to work there. It can be done in a more diplomatic manner, but asking is something I would almost certainly do.

I do have more than a few years of experience though.

On the same topic, I was told I got one of my jobs because I asked questions during the interview, unlike the other candidates. Most of my questions were on management support for certain initiatives and direction, because I wanted to know if the tasks would be doable. I expect I also asked about things like flexibility on work schedule, vacations, etc. It is wise to know those details before the offer. I would rather not waste an employer's time if the work conditions and benefits are not in an acceptable range.

OpenID b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440 June 29, 2016 1:29 PM  

But $5/hr in the 90s is the equivalent of $8-9/hr now with inflation so, I don't think that is it. I cleaned a bowling alley and bar from 15-17 before moving on to retail sales. My sister bused tables before moving on to hostess. Both those jobs are done by grown men now.

Also of note is that jobs are hindrance to getting into selective colleges these days. Back in the 70s and 80s grades and a differential hobby you could prattle about in an essay were enough. Now you need to pretend to build houses for HUD and committing 16-24 hours a week to being genuinely productive gets in the way of that sort of thing.

Anonymous Faceless June 29, 2016 1:30 PM  

@62

"By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?"

"If it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it might as well be a duck."

I remember that part time job economy in Shitsville, BFE, in the 1990s. Such jobs would get you a 1978 Camaro with 200k miles on it, a mid-80s Chevy Corsica, or, if you were willing to dedicate your entire paycheck from bagging at the Independent Grocers Alliance store, a 10 year old Grand Am with all the curvaceous cladding. They still taught the requisite skills of showing up on time, doing what was asked of you, and respecting those placed in judgement and authority over you ... or getting up and walking out the door.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus June 29, 2016 1:31 PM  

@ 27 - This is interesting. The first thing that people I train have to learn is that they know nothing. Nothing.

If they knew something, they wouldn't be interns.

Blogger VD June 29, 2016 1:32 PM  

Guys, the problem with this analysis is that I seriously doubt this company was acting in a way to prevent SJW's from influencing the firm. We don't know enough about this company to judge that it is an anti-SJW institution to begin with. Therefore, what I am seeing is a very callous disregard and mistreatment of young people that is going to blow back on society very negatively down the road.

I wouldn't merely fire them, I'd fire you too. For an utter lack of judgment. Callous disregard and mistreatment? Are you kidding me?

Those little assholes genuinely believed they could make demands of their superiors as INTERNS. Not only was firing them the right thing to do, but society would likely be better off executing them. They will cause havoc everywhere they go.

Blogger sysadmn June 29, 2016 1:33 PM  

The whole point of legal clerkships, medical residencies, internships, and co-op jobs is to socialize educated people into the workplace norms. "Yes, you know a lot. Here's how the world works." Unless your professors are clinical instructors from the real world, even they don't have that intimate knowledge.

Sounds like this was a useful learning experience.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 29, 2016 1:33 PM  

map wrote:And so these kids go to college to do better than working menial jobs. They get taught nonsense by adults and, when, through youthful indiscretion, they apply the nonsense being taught, they get fired. Now they are effectively knocked off a career path, from which they will never get back on and never recover. What is the point of this?

To teach them what their parents and teachers evidently did not. That you are there to provide value to the company and their clients, not to make yourself a little nest. That no-one cares, and no-one will bother to accommodate you, because you're just a cost center. That you're not special, that you are replaceable and will be replaced if you are more trouble than you're worth. That the things that were important to them were meaningless, and that the world will not change to make them more comfortable. That the people who live and work under a dress code don't see it as an imposition, and trying to treat it as one makes you look like a crybaby and a whiner. That petitions and group action have no place in a workplace. That your dissatisfaction imposes literally no obligation on anyone else to do anything, especially listen to you.

And, seriously, " Now they are effectively knocked off a career path, from which they will never get back on and never recover."??? Are you a woman?

Blogger VD June 29, 2016 1:34 PM  

Asking about the working conditions is quite a valuable part of the interview process. I want to know if I want to work there. It can be done in a more diplomatic manner, but asking is something I would almost certainly do.

Asking about working conditions is fine. But demanding an exemption from company policy is stupid and would justify terminating the interview.

Blogger Elder Son June 29, 2016 1:39 PM  

Where did X'ers go wrong in raising such an entitled generation?

Blogger Gary Angelone June 29, 2016 1:41 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Freestater June 29, 2016 1:43 PM  

"Those little assholes genuinely believed they could make demands of their superiors as INTERNS. Not only was firing them the right thing to do, but society would likely be better off executing them. "

HAHA Gold!

Anonymous Laz June 29, 2016 1:43 PM  

66. Snidely Whiplash

"...there are no unskilled jobs for young White (or Black) people any more."

Before I went on vacation last week in Florida I would have agreed with you. When I was in Tallahassee I noticed every single unskilled worker was black. EVERY SINGLE ONE

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus June 29, 2016 1:43 PM  

@56 The company was absolutely right to fire them all. They're not only morons, they were guaranteed to be disruptive and have negative value to the company.

Absolutely. If they'll disrupt about something like the dress code, they'll disrupt about a lot of other stuff, too. And giving in to them once just opens the floodgates.

Anonymous kfg June 29, 2016 1:46 PM  

It is not about creating a business environment. It is not. It's about creating a home here.

Blogger Dave June 29, 2016 1:47 PM  

@42 @43 @44

I started being leery after the third time you posted the same comment.

Anonymous Broken Arrow June 29, 2016 1:47 PM  

Now they are effectively knocked off a career path, from which they will never get back on and never recover.

One mistake and your career is over FOREVER! Stop being such a drama queen an never, ever associate yourself with young people and feed them your poison.

Blogger Cederq June 29, 2016 1:48 PM  

If there was any justice at this company, they would brought all the interns included the one that refused and had that intern come to the front, offer him a paid employment and then turn to the others and fire their worthless hides, the sounds of derision would still be heard...

Blogger skiballa June 29, 2016 1:50 PM  

Wow, this thread, lots of good examples of why skilled trades are a worthwhile pursuit for many these days.

I mean damn, I'm a skilled Machinist/Toolmaker, making above median income in MA, which puts me well above median for the US. Plumbers and Electricians do even better.

This is somewhere we keep losing to skilled immigrants. I'll grant that most are legal, but in my field especially, it's starting to get heavily eastern European.

Of course, some discipline is required, and the dress code, while not as formal, is often self explanatory for your line of work.

Anonymous BGKB June 29, 2016 1:52 PM  

Sandals? In a professional environment?

I stopped by at a place I was staff(not a travel temp) to check to see if the new schedule was out on a day off wearing sandals, a tank top & shorts only to end up helping with patients wearing OR scrubs with sandals

In addition to just being poor form and an invasion of privacy for the manager to disclose the disability

Anyone want to bet against it being an unfireable affirmative action worker? Ok I admit I would have lost the bet this one time if it was honestly a wounded vet & not a lie because someone didn't want to say we can't fire Blacky for downloading a porn virus for REASONS.

" I had a boss who informed me that nine out of ten millennials would ask for exemptions

Telecommuting should be only for after people have proven themselves. I never would have believed nurses could telecommute case management a decade ago. Actuaries still fly out to places to go over books because if people are hiding things it wont be in what is available on a cloud.

When I was in Tallahassee I noticed every single unskilled worker was black.

Where they American blacks, DR blacks, or refugee blacks?

Blogger Amy June 29, 2016 1:53 PM  

I work part time in an industry bas d upon people having disposable income. My job, anyone's job, could evaporate tomorrow, and thankfully right now I am not dependent upon my income for a living. It's extra savings and a bit of discretionary spending.

The owner of the business once mentioned in casual conversation that "everyone is replaceable." This threw my 20-something coworkers into a tizzy; how DARE anyone say they are replaceable? Doesn't the business owner know how valuable they are...how much they depend on their pay checks (to get drunk every weekend)?

I'm mid-range GenX and grew up in a lower income bracket. I had jobs around the house, and helped my grandma clean her house for candy money. Once I was legal to get a paycheck, I worked on a farm doing anything from picking veggies to manning the farm stand register to disassembling tractors so I could scrape and repaint them at the end of every season. It was valuable experience. The farmer treated me with respect, but not as an equal. We all knew our place and our duty.if the farm failed, we were out of work, so there.

I worked retail, restaurants, and with little kids all during college. Never had an internship, and that hurt me tremendously when looking for work. My other experiences counted for nothing. But five years in the corporate rat race had me racing back to the lower income but more satisfying pace and tasks of farm life.

Blogger Arthur Isaac June 29, 2016 1:54 PM  

Found the millennial.

Blogger Arthur Isaac June 29, 2016 1:55 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 29, 2016 1:58 PM  

Therefore, what I am seeing is a very callous disregard and mistreatment of young people

Good grief. I hope you had a box of tissues handy to sop up the tears you must have shed over their terrible plight.

They got fired from a stupid job of hanging around doing nothing except thinking about how they'd run things. Haven't you ever been fired before? I have. It's really not the end of the world.

Anonymous David-093 June 29, 2016 1:58 PM  

I was born in 89 and this attitude is alien to me. Ive worked in fast food, offices, and lawncare and it never occurred to us to demand something like this. These younger Milennials are the product of Gen-X now. The fuck happened?

Anonymous Freestater June 29, 2016 2:01 PM  

@84

A Masshole, you poor soul, granted there are a lot of jobs in Mass, but I could never live there, it's the official SJW state of New England.

@65

"I telecommute nearly full-time on my current job, as well as my previous one. I only go in for client meetings. But I didn't even think of bringing the subject up until I had been here 6 months, despite that 3 of my co-workers were half-time or full-time telecommuters."

Lucky you, I'm hoping some day to work full time from home, but I've found that owners of small companies, which is where I usually work, want you around mainly so they can ask you questions all day since they don't know everything that goes on in the accounting function of their business, and they need quick answers.

Anonymous Faceless June 29, 2016 2:04 PM  

skiballa wrote:Wow, this thread, lots of good examples of why skilled trades are a worthwhile pursuit for many these days.

I mean damn, I'm a skilled Machinist/Toolmaker, making above median income in MA, which puts me well above median for the US. Plumbers and Electricians do even better.

This is somewhere we keep losing to skilled immigrants. I'll grant that most are legal, but in my field especially, it's starting to get heavily eastern European.

Of course, some discipline is required, and the dress code, while not as formal, is often self explanatory for your line of work.


Half of coders and engineers have this ethic; the other half are crazy.

There is a deep and abiding truth to this.

If the man who can fix your broken X that you really must have broken and he's about the only one who can do it charges $Y and also calls you three names and says you're a complete and useless human being for not being able to fix your broken X, well, you thank him for his skills and pay the man.

The plumber who can fix your broken toilet on a holiday with the in-laws having just unpacked in the spare room or the HVAC man that can get your heater working on the first night of frost is going to have a wide berth in his lack of social graces.

Anonymous map June 29, 2016 2:04 PM  

VD,

You are right that these kids were wrong in what they did. If this was an isolated batch of bad kids, then firing them is reasonable. But that's not what is going on. This attitude is woven in to how most young people think. Whose to say it won't happen again? May as well get rid of the intern program to begin with.

Snidely Whiplash,

You never, under any circumstances, allow or use the real world to teach anyone a lesson. In the real world, you will never learn from your mistakes because you will never have the same opportunities. That's why experience is a very expensive teacher. Internships are all about learning. A very brutal riot act could've been read that would've corrected this behavior going forward. And, if that did not work, then fire them.But there was nothing at stake to nip this behavior in the bud.

Anonymous Elipe June 29, 2016 2:04 PM  

Somehow, I also get the impression they worded that proposal more like a memo from a CEO, just like they do in Business Communications classes at universities.

Probably phrased it in that usual, lecturing and demanding SJW tone, like they were the ones with authority.

Blogger David-2 June 29, 2016 2:06 PM  

@56 "The company was absolutely right to fire them all. They're not only morons, they were guaranteed to be disruptive and have negative value to the company."

That's especially the case since, as interns, they by definition have no positive _current_ value to the company. Their only value is to be screened as potential hires in the future (and to influence the better qualified/skilled among them to prefer the company to other companies when they graduate).

These interns screened themselves right out of that future employment, and thus, having no value left to the company (except a summer's worth of pain) they were immediately out.

Blogger skiballa June 29, 2016 2:08 PM  

Pity for my current residence is not necessary gents, I'm a 16th generation Masshole. I'm in the Berkshires, so it's not all that bad.

Blogger Timmy3 June 29, 2016 2:15 PM  

"We were shocked. The proposal was written professionally like examples I have learned about in school"

As you gain experience, there's also something called professionally 'sucking it up' and brown nosing. There's no professionally protesting. Schools can either teach students to do their jobs or be community organizers. I guess one works and the other lives on the dole on the government's teet.

Blogger skiballa June 29, 2016 2:15 PM  

@92

Faceless, I know, believe me. I'm definitely more suited to skilled work behind the scenes. I can only imagine the consequences of making a former Army machinist a public face of your company.

To further illustrate my earlier point, I, at 36, am usually the youngest guy in the shop, with exception to those skilled immigrants.

A grumpy old yankee machinist is a sight to see when they get going on the intelligence of your average engineer or end user. A millenial, unprepared for such, would likely faint,

Anonymous map June 29, 2016 2:19 PM  

Broken Arrow,

"One mistake and your career is over FOREVER! Stop being such a drama queen an never, ever associate yourself with young people and feed them your poison."

Yes. That's called "career tracking." Succeeding in the modern world is done by picking the correct career track and sticking to it. If you are ever derailed, then it will be impossible to get back on it.

Those internships were a necessary condition for getting into the field. Without them, that field is now effectively closed. They won't even get interviews for jobs now.

Blogger VD June 29, 2016 2:21 PM  

If this was an isolated batch of bad kids, then firing them is reasonable. But that's not what is going on. This attitude is woven in to how most young people think. Whose to say it won't happen again? May as well get rid of the intern program to begin with.

That is not true. I HAVE young interns. They don't behave anything like that. Even in the story, there was an exception.

You never, under any circumstances, allow or use the real world to teach anyone a lesson. In the real world, you will never learn from your mistakes because you will never have the same opportunities. That's why experience is a very expensive teacher. Internships are all about learning. A very brutal riot act could've been read that would've corrected this behavior going forward. And, if that did not work, then fire them.But there was nothing at stake to nip this behavior in the bud.

You will certainly never work for me. And you're an idiot. No riot act, however brutal, would have altered their behavior. Even getting fired didn't! The writer failed to learn from it and is still whining about how it was unfair.

Those children are unlikely to ever be worthwhile employees and the corporate execs clearly recognized that. It is not the company's job to fix their flaws.

Blogger Were-Puppy June 29, 2016 2:21 PM  

@71 VD

Not only was firing them the right thing to do, but society would likely be better off executing them.
---

Think about it. You have these interns who are suppose to be getting some kind of experience on a job.

Then they broadcast that their focus so far has been on what people are wearing. And could they also please get special dispensations on the rules?

Not a peep about whatever the business is, what they do, nothing. They have learned nothing in their time there, so are useless as interns.

There was probably a lot of other nonsense going on with them that is unstated here in the article.

Blogger Alexander June 29, 2016 2:22 PM  

Whose to say it won't happen again? May as well get rid of the intern program to begin with.

Or just fire the specific lot that do it, again. At some point the message will get through. Even in this batch, there was one bright spark who realized this was a bad idea. If it saves just one intern...

Blogger VD June 29, 2016 2:22 PM  

Those internships were a necessary condition for getting into the field. Without them, that field is now effectively closed. They won't even get interviews for jobs now.

Nor should they. They don't belong in it. They failed a very important test: know your place in the corporate hierarchy.

Blogger Were-Puppy June 29, 2016 2:28 PM  

@89 Cail Corishev

Haven't you ever been fired before? I have. It's really not the end of the world.
---

That is so true. I have not been fired, but been laid off - by elimination of department or whatever.

The first time it will freak you out, but after that, it's more like - here we go again.

Blogger skiballa June 29, 2016 2:29 PM  

@100

So much this, I mean damn, my kids (homeschooled of course) wouldn't act like this, and their peers, whom I've met through VBS and other programs wouldn't either. Which gives me hope for the future.

Not all Young People are like that! *grin

Really though, if they won this battle what's next, they look around and see too many competent older white people and petition for diversity? Maybe they disagree with a client's stance on social issues and sabotage their account, or leak private info?

Anonymous andon June 29, 2016 2:30 PM  

86. Blogger Amy June 29, 2016 1:53 PM
I work part time in an industry bas d upon people having disposable income. My job, anyone's job, could evaporate tomorrow, and thankfully right now I am not dependent upon my income for a living. It's extra savings and a bit of discretionary spending.

The owner of the business once mentioned in casual conversation that "everyone is replaceable." This threw my 20-something coworkers into a tizzy; how DARE anyone say they are replaceable? Doesn't the business owner know how valuable they are...how much they depend on their pay checks (to get drunk every weekend)?


if someone considers themself the center of the universe, its easy to see how they might also consider themself irreplaceable


Blogger Forbes June 29, 2016 2:31 PM  

Ah Millennials--changing the world one petition at a time.

Anonymous Broken Arrow June 29, 2016 2:33 PM  

@99 Yes. That's called "career tracking." Succeeding in the modern world is done by picking the correct career track and sticking to it. If you are ever derailed, then it will be impossible to get back on it.

Utter B.S. A buddy of mine was fired from one developer job for looking at too much porn, then fired from another job from goofing off all day, and is still in the same field writing the same type of applications now as a manager at another company.

I can give you anecdotes all day long about friends and co-workers who made huge career mistakes, got fired, harassment claims, you name it. Most all of them are working in the same field at another company.

Blogger Were-Puppy June 29, 2016 2:35 PM  

Another funny thing about this - the college or w/e they came from just got a bunch of useless students dumped back on them.

Rats, there goes the faculty time off for a few weeks. Now they have to stop protesting Milo, and actually locate these gems a new place to intern.

LOL

Blogger JDC June 29, 2016 2:38 PM  

Those internships were a necessary condition for getting into the field. Without them, that field is now effectively closed. They won't even get interviews for jobs now.

The author was clear that, "I was able to get a summer internship at a company that does work in the industry I want to work in after I graduate. Even though the division I was hired to work in doesn’t deal with clients or customers."

Given his ridiculous attempt to enforce his (and the assembled rabbit signers) notion of social justice, my guess is, he probably shared openly he was not where he wanted to be.

Blogger Chris Mallory June 29, 2016 2:38 PM  

"Imagine going to the hospital and finding your surgeon in sandals."

The best surgeon I ever had dealings with was never seen in anything but scrubs and Crocs, even in his office.

In dealing with specialists, I have always found that the less they seemed to care about their personal appearance, the better doctor they were. They neurologists and neurosurgeons who had their ties loosened, shirts half un-tucked, hair uncombed, etc were better at finding out what was actually wrong and knew what they had to do to fix the problem than the guys who looked like they stepped off a GQ cover. All of that bunch I have ever dealt with couldn't find their asses with both hands.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 29, 2016 2:40 PM  

By the way, calling them "young people" is obfuscation. They're not 12-year-olds playing Little League. They're old enough to vote, drink, drive, enlist, get married, and go to prison, so they ought to be old enough to realize presenting your boss with a freaking petition about sandals is a bad idea. More excuse-making and infantilizing is the last thing they need.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr June 29, 2016 2:40 PM  

@26 Shimshon:

I helped my father on a Coca-Cola truck summers in high school. Graduated from high school one week after my 17th birthday, was working full-time as a co-op student a week after that. These kids are pretty weak.

Blogger Unknown June 29, 2016 2:41 PM  

I noted with some disappointment that the college these special snowflakes came from was not mentioned. Shame, that. I have my own private "Never Hire From" list going, and would like to add whatever school it was to my list.

I am in school right now to change careers after a 20 year stint in the Navy, and I take great pride in the fact that these idiots will be my competition upon completion.

Blogger Lovekraft June 29, 2016 2:41 PM  

There's a chance these kids were just confused, thinking that the general atmosphere of the place (just assuming here) being upbeat and spirited would lead to approaching management to push for more looseness.

Which backfired. Lesson here: just because people are nice, or you are expected to get along with your co-workers does not mean the company is now your social network.

Anonymous map June 29, 2016 2:42 PM  

VD,

You would love me as an employee. My job is to make my managers look good to the people they answer to.

In the abstract, what these kids did was wrong. But their presumptuousness is a function of training, not intent. In context, this was a very harsh thing to do. The act of defending their actions afterwards is an act of desperation, once the magnitude of what was lost sank in.

Corporations are constantly fuzzying around about their hierarchy's. They are always pretending that employees are partners, that input is valued, that you should offer your opinions, etc., etc. And young people who take this rhetoric at face value are supposed know that it is really a minefield?

Of course, when these interns then become real community organizers and take over the government then this big bad company will fold like a cheap suit, like every other company has.

Anonymous Genericviews June 29, 2016 2:44 PM  

It will be interesting to see which, if any interns learn anything from this. Some will "learn" that that company is run by a bunch of pompous jerks and they are glad they found out early. I suspect some small number will be able to put two and two together though and do a much better job next time they have a job opportunity handed to them. And without a doubt, there are some who will learn to make their proposal even more professional next time, with unanimous signatures.

Blogger JDC June 29, 2016 2:47 PM  

There's a chance these kids were just confused, thinking that the general atmosphere of the place (just assuming here) being upbeat and spirited would lead to approaching management to push for more looseness.

For some reason this reminds me of Stripes, and Bill Murray's character approaching the drill instructor stating,

"I know that I'm speaking for the entire platoon when I say this run should be postponed until this platoon is better rested."

Blogger Unknown June 29, 2016 2:49 PM  

I work in an industry (public accounting) that hires a slew of newly minted college grads every year..most have jobs lined up and locked down before they finish school.

These kids are smart. But man, the balls that a lot of them have...complaining about policies, etc. Typical millennial behavior. I'm in my mid 30's and would never have DARED challenge an employer's rule as an intern or an entry level employee.

This is a failure of the parents for teaching their kids that the rest of the world thinks every thing they have to say is of vital importance. It's also a failure of the career services departments at the overpriced colleges these kids attend. What kind of advice are they giving these kids about appropriate dress and behavior?

Blogger S1AL June 29, 2016 2:50 PM  

"Yes. That's called "career tracking." Succeeding in the modern world is done by picking the correct career track and sticking to it. If you are ever derailed, then it will be impossible to get back on it."

That's simply not true.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 29, 2016 2:55 PM  

"The proposal was written professionally like examples I have learned about in school"

Cargo-cult credentialism. "We formatted the proposal correctly, made it just the right length, and printed it on high-quality paper. We even included a cover letter and a professional salutation! How could they refuse it? The content? What does the content have to do with it?"

They failed a very important test: know your place in the corporate hierarchy.

And also: have some ability to read a room. How do you get past the age of reason without knowing that presenting someone with a petition full of names is a challenge, if not outright hostile? I mean, I walked up to a growling dog once. When I was six years old. By the time you're in college, you're supposed to be able to sense obvious danger better than that.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr June 29, 2016 2:58 PM  

It's interesting that one thing the military does, quite well, is to help a new recruit understand his place at the very bottom of the hierarchy.

And I'd bet money that not one of these twits had any contact with someone who served...with the possible exception of the one who didn't sign that petition.

Blogger Teri June 29, 2016 2:59 PM  

@38,
I do support for an internet company. I was the first person they allowed to work from home. I wrote a letter to the owner, giving him specific reasons why allowing certain employees to work from home would be beneficial. They asked me to work a split shift, which really has worked out well. It's an hour and a half commute each way and treacherous in the winter. When I get to work, I don't really get to talk to my co-workers because I'm on the phone all day. BUT...I had worked there for years and my work ethic was well known. When I showed that it could work well, they allowed some of the other employees to work from home. Most like to come into the office. I go in maybe once or twice a year.

I would never ask about telecommuting on my job interview. That's something you can talk about when you've been there awhile.

Blogger Alexander June 29, 2016 2:59 PM  

@116

I would think VD would be more inclined to wonder why the managers didn't 'look good' on their own merits.

Blogger Dave June 29, 2016 3:02 PM  

A buddy of mine was fired from one developer job for looking at too much porn

Interesting; some amount of porn was acceptable but he crossed that line of too much porn.

He would've fit right in at the SEC.

Blogger Doom June 29, 2016 3:02 PM  

More? Make damn sure, when called, that why they were let go is fully made available. Doing a solid for your industry is better than letting the cockroaches in, even if 'over there'. The disease spreads once it is in.

Blogger Chiva June 29, 2016 3:05 PM  

They asked their managers and were told NO.
"I spoke with my manager about being allowed some leeway under the dress code and was told this was not possible, despite the other person being allowed to do it."

They then chose to confront their managers leadership by standing together and....
"We decided to write a proposal stating why we should be allowed someone leeway under the dress code."

The managers responded to the interns confrontation.
"we were informed that due to our “unprofessional” behavior, we were being let go from our internships."

The management responded correctly.

Anonymous Broken Arrow June 29, 2016 3:06 PM  

@125 It was before 2000, and so a lot of the HR policies on these things weren't set in stone and nobody really had web filters blocking adult sites. I think most of the department had some, he had something 500MB on an optical disk in 1998-99. A little over the line...

Blogger VD June 29, 2016 3:13 PM  

You would love me as an employee. My job is to make my managers look good to the people they answer to.

Not a chance. I don't hire gammas, as a general rule, or stupid people with poor judgment who defend even stupider people.

And I particularly dislike people who pride themselves on their office politics.

Blogger Ingot9455 June 29, 2016 3:14 PM  

I work for a news organization.
In our New York office we have a 'newsroom' where employees basically type up and properly format news releases.

If you saw it you would swear you were on a movie set. Because you are.

The newsroom staff have a strict dress code. They also have a strict desk code: they can have no more than two pens/pencils in view on their desk and when not in use they must be lined up. They can have no beverage holders of any kind visible on their desks except for a coffee cup (messages discouraged, designs/artwork allowed subject to approval). And no more than one sheet of paper whose text is in view; all others must be neatly stacked or concealed in a folder.

Why? Because occasionally customers tour the office. It's New York, and they want to see a newsroom. If you can't hack it, don't take the job. (The IT guys downstairs can be substantially more lax, and the California rules are practically nonexistent by comparison.)

Anonymous Noah Nehm June 29, 2016 3:14 PM  

True Story:

I worked at a Silicon Valley startup that had a break room with all sorts of board games. Twice a day three ladies from the Marketing department would place Jenga and chat for about 1/2 hour. WHen tough times hit, the ladies were fired.

Later when we had a tour of our facility with the customer, he asked why we had Jenga in the breakroom. One of the remaining engineers, out of ear-shot of the customer, joked that's how we could identify whom next to fire.

Anonymous map June 29, 2016 3:17 PM  

VD,

Making the managers look good is not sucking up. It's about maintaining the shop standards because the work product is being presented to other people and the managers' name goes on the work product.

Also, I did not read correctly. They were told no in the first place and then petitioned the refusal.

They lost their second chance.

Anonymous BGKB June 29, 2016 3:19 PM  

I have always found that the less they seemed to care about their personal appearance

When in a new area long enough to want a primary care physician I would ask the biggest ahole doctor I knew of for a recommendation. I would rather have good than nice.

Interesting; some amount of porn was acceptable but he crossed that line of too much porn.

Some would pay $40 a month for a service to let them avoid IT's restrictions. I think it was a tunneling service. No point in not snitching out a groid when you have another job lined up

Blogger Unknown June 29, 2016 3:22 PM  

I had a physics prof once who wore dress shoes w the toes cut out, so the front was like sandals. He wore dark socks so it was a long time before I noticed. I just assumed he had some kind of foot condition.

Blogger Sevron June 29, 2016 3:27 PM  

We had an intern last summer that I thought was pretty damn smart- he actually knew some of the industry standards, was able to generate decent solutions and back them up and so on. At the end-of-summer presentation, the CEO asked him a question he asks all the interns: "If we were to offer you a full time job when you graduate, would you take it?"

Answer: "No. I'm actually not really interested in this industry."

I thought he was smart.

Blogger Lucas June 29, 2016 3:29 PM  

haha That was swift. i dont think they will learn anythig because 2nd Law.

Anonymous GracieLou June 29, 2016 3:44 PM  

Not surprised AT ALL.

A couple of years ago I had a very calm discussion with a group of 5th graders at the private school where I was teaching. No riot act, just a reality check about chronic misbehavior from the majority of them and how those behaviors had consequences, affecting the tone and mutual enjoyment of the class and the type of lessons we could do (remember the cool clay castles the kids made last year, sorry, I couldn't trust you with those). I let them know that from now on there would be no more warnings, just infractions because they'd abused that privilege. I said, "Have you heard the word 'willpower'? Willpower means you are the boss of yourself, and that's important because when you aren't the boss of yourself that means someone else is going to have to boss you. And that's not fun." Afterwards I thought, "Wow, quality life lesson there."

After school I got called into the principal's office. Some kids reported to him that I had "hurt their feelings." I asked him if they told him what they'd been doing in my class.

"No."

"They're manipulating."

"But they're CHILDREN! No, I genuinely think you hurt their feelings."

"When their feelings are hurt, they tell the classroom teacher, when they are manipulating they try to get the teacher in trouble."

"You aren't in trouble."

"Yet I'm sitting in the principal's office."

The next time I saw the class we did a writing assignment. A character essay with questions such as, "How would you like to be viewed as a student? A friend? Why are rules important? When someone chooses not to follow rules what effect could that have on themselves, and others? What is trust? What happens when a teacher or friend loses trust in you?..." And so forth. Great discussion ensued. They thought of all kinds of ways to improve themselves. I thought "Wow, that's quality teaching."

The next day I got a two page hate letter from a parent.

Just one very important reason why there is a teacher shortage. Why many teachers drink, take anti-depressants and slog it out until retirement. Why the profession attracts SJW freaks, because no normal, morally healthy individual can stand it.

Why some dipshit can't understand the importance of order and willpower and starts a flipping petition over shoes.

Anonymous LemonGrass June 29, 2016 3:53 PM  

There go's my plan to petition VD to change this blog from blue to pink colour.

Anyway they are idiots, they could have simply talked to the execs to see why the rules were in place and whether it's reasonable to make exceptions. Instead they formed a group and tried to challenge the people that built the company up trough sheer numbers. It's amazing how they could have thought it would ever go well over with the execs.

OpenID paworldandtimes June 29, 2016 3:57 PM  

"The proposal was written professionally like examples I have learned about in school"

Indubitably with lots of unnecessary big words and dated office cliches like "we appreciate your prompt consideration in this matter regarding the item of concern."

PA

Blogger Alexander June 29, 2016 3:57 PM  

@138

VD is totally receptive to petitions. Just make sure you send them through Malwyn and you don't wear your nice shirt when you deliver it.

Anonymous Freestater June 29, 2016 4:00 PM  

@119

I know how you feel. When I was a senior undergrad accounting major we must have had 5-10 public accounting firms come in and recruit us straight from our classes. They hired kids 9 months before graduation with no internships. It's hard not to feel overly important when you get a job almost a year before you graduate without ever actually proving yourself.I never worked in Public Accounting myself, and I'm thankful for it because I would not have been prepared. I don't understand how one accounting class(Auditing) could possibly make me able to be a public auditor or tax expert for that matter, I'm very glad I took an entry level bookkeeper job, it taught me to be respectful and not overly confident because I literally started at the bottom doing Accounts Payable. Public Accounting firms should only hire students after a year of working. From what I observed none of my friends were even remotely ready for 60 hour workweeks, much less sampling AR/AP etc for regular audits.

Blogger residentMoron June 29, 2016 4:01 PM  

OT: The EU doubles down in freedom of movement


Brexit: EU says no compromise on freedom of movement

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 29, 2016 4:02 PM  

"You never, under any circumstances, allow or use the real world to teach anyone a lesson. In the real world, you will never learn from your mistakes because you will never have the same opportunities. That's why experience is a very expensive teacher. Internships are all about learning. A very brutal riot act could've been read that would've corrected this behavior going forward. And, if that did not work, then fire them.But there was nothing at stake to nip this behavior in the bud."

Absolute BS. There's only one (1) teacher in this world, and it's adversity. There's only one (1) school, and it's real life. These guys will either learn or fail. Either way, it's not the company's problem. "Root, hog, or die" is more than a slogan, it's the iron law of existence.
Someone else wants that job, and someone else is better prepared and has a better attitude. Just because these losers are in front of you doesn't give them any special status. They wanted a confrontation with the boss,the found out what the price is.

"Yes. That's called "career tracking." Succeeding in the modern world is done by picking the correct career track and sticking to it. If you are ever derailed, then it will be impossible to get back on it."
Again, utter bullshit. "Career track" is a bullshit phrase used to keep employees from asking for money or advancement when their skills and performance justify it. I've never had a career track. I've worked as a janitor, a cook, a deckhand, a warehouseman, a salesman, a security guard. I even farmed for a while. None of which has anything to do with my current position. Yet somehow I've made a success of it. I have a career that's doing pretty well by me.
I've been fired from more jobs that most people accumulate over an entire career. I've never had to settle for less money, and I've never had to look for a job for more than a few weeks. There is no "Career Track", only gullible people being exploited with the promise of future bennies.

Anonymous Til June 29, 2016 4:09 PM  

Off topic fellas, but it looks like Brexit has spooked the globalists. Obama and friends basically announced the beginning of the North American Union today. Unrestricted travel between all three countries, and a 'North American Caucus'.

Buckle up.

Blogger MC227 June 29, 2016 4:10 PM  

Half of succeeding at anything is showing up and on time. These idiots can't even do that. For the life of me I don't know why parents don't teach their kids these simple things

Blogger SirHamster June 29, 2016 4:11 PM  

Cail Corishev wrote:

They got fired from a stupid job of hanging around doing nothing except thinking about how they'd run things. Haven't you ever been fired before? I have. It's really not the end of the world.


As Vox says, "Fail Faster".

Great learning experience - now they know one way to piss off their bosses, and understand that Failure is in their own hands.

Anonymous Laz June 29, 2016 4:15 PM  

85. BGKB

"Where they American blacks, DR blacks, or refugee blacks?"

American blacks. They were generally all nice and smiling and helpful too. Very unlike the surliness I get everywhere here in Texas.

Anonymous BGKB June 29, 2016 4:16 PM  

American Academy of Pediatrics coming out with new vaccine refusal form for those that don't vaccinate against medical advice, forcing parents to practically sign a child abuse declaration & admit they are risking lives, but AAP has no problem letting desert dindus and wetbacks bring in 3rd world diseases. They admit that 74% of parents in their first year refuse/delay vaccinations
https://www.aap.org/en-us/Documents/immunization_refusaltovaccinate.pdf

Seriously a standard Against Medical Advice form covers everything. AAP should be fighting to keep ZIKA anchor babies & the ZIKA disease out of the US, instead of nagging parents.

Anonymous Chad June 29, 2016 4:23 PM  

Sounds like a case of egalitarian thinking poisoning young minds. Reminds me of a line in True Lies when and intern tries to get into a banter exchange with the boss.

"How long have you worked here?"
"So What makes you think any of the slack I cut Harry in any way transfers to you?"

Back before movies (TV in general really) became about the young showing up the old.

I would also say that this isn't an SJW limited scenario (though I would strongly suspect the ringleaders would be textbook). The SJWs never learn. Those unfortunate enough to follow SJWs however will have learned a valuable lesson about entrusting their futures to those morons (and one knew better).

Anonymous Faceless June 29, 2016 4:29 PM  

@147

That is one of the crimes of Mr. Obama against his own people.

There are those that match, but none exceed the kindness of a certain kind of black person (of either sex, though often an older black woman) who works in a service business and is not on welfare and is just downright friendly. If you call them sir or ma'am, they cannot do enough for you.

I was reminded of this when there was the stabbing spree in Flint from some white guy released when they closed the boobie hatch. A black waiter at the Buffalo Wild Wings was explaining the craziness of it all: "We see a white guy, we try to help him; we try to get him out to Grand Blanc. We don't expect him to be nuts and knife us."

Of course, they key thing - they're often older and were told early in life those who do not work will not eat.

Blogger CM June 29, 2016 4:41 PM  

@57 Gaiseric,

Asking about the working conditions is quite a valuable part of the interview process. I want to know if I want to work there. It can be done in a more diplomatic manner, but asking is something I would almost certainly do.


The threat of being passed over because I asked about dress code (even so nitpicky as to whether flat dress shoes are acceptable) is not useful. Living in mom-clothes for 10 years before re-entering a professional work environment is going to require some upfront cost of reworking my entire wardrobe. Blouse, jeans, and close-toed non-fabric flats I can do short notice, but full professional attire is something I need to be aware of prior to first day so i can aquire that wardrobe.

Reading the comments here are always enlightening. I tend towards the "i gotta fix this" attitude and i don't quite know if it is a personality trait with a good purpose if used right or outright sin of criticisim that needs to be shutdown.

Anonymous Iron Spartan June 29, 2016 4:43 PM  

Not only did every one of them deserve to be fired, the relationship with that school should be terminated as well. Apparently doing this sort of thing was something their teachers told them was acceptable.

Anonymous Thersites June 29, 2016 4:43 PM  

I have to take a guess that all the interns are from the same school. It is the only way to explain the idiocy that was display in that letter to be found in all the interns that signed.

Blogger B.J. June 29, 2016 4:46 PM  

It used to be people understood you had to pay your dues and earn your place before you could enjoy the benefits of membership. Now not only are kids expecting to pay no dues but actually think they should be in charge of the club right after they join. Sad.

Anonymous #5454 June 29, 2016 4:49 PM  

Most internships are a whopping 12-weeks long anyway.

He couldn't go without dressing like a slob for three lousy months? The penalty was not harsh.

Anonymous Smith June 29, 2016 4:57 PM  

"The worst part is that just before the meeting ended, one of the managers told us that the worker who was allowed to disobey the dress code was a former soldier who lost her leg and was therefore given permission to wear whatever kind of shoes she could walk in." Oh dear...

Blogger dienw June 29, 2016 5:14 PM  

@ 144 Til
Link please.

Anonymous andon June 29, 2016 5:14 PM  

154. Blogger B.J. June 29, 2016 4:46 PM
It used to be people understood you had to pay your dues and earn your place before you could enjoy the benefits of membership. Now not only are kids expecting to pay no dues but actually think they should be in charge of the club right after they join. Sad.


sounds like today's "migrants"

Blogger Roger Hill June 29, 2016 5:30 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous TheVillageIdiot Ret. June 29, 2016 5:41 PM  

I love the sound of Millenniums being bitch slap by reality early in the century
DannyR

Blogger Arthur Isaac June 29, 2016 5:58 PM  

map = troll.

Blogger Bob Loblaw June 29, 2016 6:03 PM  

The company was absolutely right to fire them all. They're not only morons, they were guaranteed to be disruptive and have negative value to the company.

Interns always have a negative value to the company. We take on interns because we want to see who might be impressive in next year's graduating class. But the amount of useful work we get out of them never rises above the level of work we lose when experienced, full time employees spend time answering questions or fixing what the interns have broken. Hell, even people with experience take time to bring up to speed, and during that time they're a net negative.

These kids have been laboring under a drastic misconception. They think they're exchanging labor for money, but that's not what's happening. What's really going on here is an extended job interview, and they failed ever so spectacularly.

Blogger LP9 Solidified in Gold! Rin Integra June 29, 2016 6:06 PM  

Appalling in that there is reason why young people are not hired into upper echelon areas, we require business attire and there are no casual days. I was against but silent on casual Fridays for 20 years or I noted it around 1996.

Gathering a petition over babies needing more slop bib shirts is a blight to stateside employment. Corporate events like galas are always formal not cocktail dress formal but a bit higher up in fashion. Employment is not a henhouse,

I am certain it was women who ruined their internships over fashion, it had to be the women ruining everything giving reasonable professionals a bad rap.

2 weeks back to work, all is well. Actuarial work like many areas are going to robots, no news there, happiness.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 29, 2016 6:08 PM  

Arthur Isaac wrote:map = troll.

map=/= troll.
he/she is just a little tenderhearted and a lot insecure about employment and career.

Blogger LP9 Solidified in Gold! Rin Integra June 29, 2016 6:19 PM  

Reading comp fail edit, it was women - ok. Who else under 25 joined a seriously bad proposal. This entire situation wold have never happened if baby boomers via colleges hasn't ruined anther generation. But I'm not blaming boomers, just these strange times of decline the youth are stuck in, its arrested delopmenmt

Business attire is like a plastic watch versus a quiet Bulova.

Blogger SS June 29, 2016 6:22 PM  

I have one of these special snowflakes. I work directly with 20 different locations for my company for a specific area of focus. I have 1-5 direct contacts at each site and my focus is defined to be very narrow. Everyone is aware of this.

We got a new intern last year and she was hired on full time after the summer. She thinks the rules dont apply to her and calls me directly about every stupid thing she can think of. I direct her to the policy and the proper avenues.

My division sends out surveys twice a year asking for feedback on my teams performance. I never hear anything bad until this past go-round. I get one negative comment. To the effect of "SS doesnt do this specific thing that I want him to do and is unresponsive"

My boss calls me about it, I already know who submitted it (the form is anonymous) and I explain the tender millenial to him. He throws it in the trash.

Blogger SS June 29, 2016 6:24 PM  

And as to the interns that our company hires - they are basically there to do the crap work that no one wants to do. They convert written notes to electronic, they answer phones, they make copies, and about 30% of their time, they get to follow the employees in their department around to see what they do. They have little value to the company, but if they look to be exceptional, can get a job offer once the internship is over. In my area, there is generally 10 of them per year and depending on openings at the end of the summer, up to 3 of them can be hired on. This is not always a good decision. Some of them still manage to get fired before the year is out.

Anonymous EH June 29, 2016 6:37 PM  

Proposal rejected? Reviled and mocked? Disemployed and driven out in a hail of rotten tomatoes by an angry mob? Good. Very good.

One seldom gets that sort of commitment to an epic troll among the younger generation. [What? ... Oh.]
It would merit an Order of the Sad Pepe (second class) if only they had been trolling, but sadly, under the circumstances, we can confer no award.

Anonymous BGKB June 29, 2016 6:37 PM  

I think a lot of board members are going to start identifying as niggerettes, do they have to wear dresses if they identify as lesbians?
http://www.wsj.com/articles/sec-drafting-rule-requiring-firms-reveal-board-diversity-1467078153

Securities and Exchange Commission Chairman Mary Jo White said her agency would propose a rule to elicit more information about the diversity of board members. Ms. White, speaking to a conference in San Francisco, said the SEC’s current rules have failed to draw out meaningful information, while the share of minority directors for the largest public companies has “stagnated” at 15% for the past several years...

“The low level of board diversity in the United States is unacceptable,” Ms. White told the International Corporate Governance Network via videoconference. “Our lens of board diversity disclosure needs to be refocused in order to better serve and inform investors.”

Ms. White didn’t specify what information the SEC would require, but praised companies that have voluntarily reported the “state of the board’s gender, race and ethnic diversity composition.”


Obama Dyke US attorney issues follow up statement about inflammatory free speech against moslem's raping a 5yo white girl http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/state/idaho/article86438952.html

Blogger VD June 29, 2016 7:06 PM  

Reading the comments here are always enlightening. I tend towards the "i gotta fix this" attitude and i don't quite know if it is a personality trait with a good purpose if used right or outright sin of criticisim that needs to be shutdown.

In the workplace? I strongly suggest you follow a strict policy of "not my job, not my concern", especially since you've been out of it for a while.

The fact that you are conflating "criticism" with "you fixing it" tends to suggest that you are a backseat driver who can't actually do anything, but takes great pleasure in annoying the people who actually know how to do it by providing them with unwanted advice.

That's not necessarily the case, but it is a red flag. Always ask yourself this question: is it my direct responsibility? If the answer is no, KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT.

Blogger John Williams June 29, 2016 7:11 PM  

A very brutal riot act could've been read that would've corrected this behavior going forward
Had a neighbor who did the same to a new hire. He figured he had nothing invested in her and it would send a message to the rest of the company.

Anonymous Longtime Lurker June 29, 2016 7:13 PM  

Life is rude by design. Suck it up Millennial Buttercups.

Blogger Paul Lutgen June 29, 2016 7:29 PM  

I like "Ask a Managers" response per this article there may be some other issues as well

Honestly , if my summer interns banded together and this was what they decided to take on, I’d have some serious questions about their judgment and their priorities. I wouldn’t fire you for it … but I would not be impressed and we would be having a very stern conversation in which I explained the above.
The fact that they did fire all of you for it makes me wonder if there were other issues too and this pushed them over the edge. Were you getting good feedback before this, or had you noticed your manager trying to rein you in on other things? If there were other issues, I can more easily understand them just throwing up their hands and being finished with the whole thing.

Anonymous Laz June 29, 2016 7:48 PM  

165. LP9 Solidified in Gold! Rin Integra

"Business attire is like a plastic watch versus a quiet Bulova."

Bad analogy. A lot of blue collar people gave up watches years ago when cell phones became commonplace. You can't stick your hand in tight spaces with a watch on and it gets old having to put a watch on twice a day.

Anonymous Laz June 29, 2016 7:51 PM  

Man, I am soooo glad my last couple of jobs are bastions of the right so I don't have to deal with this crap.

Blogger Doomfinger June 29, 2016 9:16 PM  

If you don't like the rules then leave and find better rules until you get to make your own rules.

Getting bent out of shape over something like this tells me the signers will have a very difficult time.

Anonymous Sir OB June 29, 2016 9:39 PM  

So...what makes these people SJWs? The social justice of being comfortable at work?

SJW is just a meaningless name for people you don't like. That's a flimsy foundation for a movement.

Anonymous Dave Gerrold's 6184th Cabana Boy June 29, 2016 9:45 PM  

The shame of this is that the petitioner doesn't identify their college, so I know where not to hire interns or Co-Ops from.

I would fire any of my interns that pulled a stunt like this.

Blogger Arthur Isaac June 29, 2016 9:47 PM  

"Of course, when these interns then become real community organizers and take over the government then this big bad company will fold like a cheap suit, like every other company has."

That's a troll.....

Blogger SS June 29, 2016 9:47 PM  

Sir OB wrote:So...what makes these people SJWs? The social justice of being comfortable at work?

SJW is just a meaningless name for people you don't like. That's a flimsy foundation for a movement.


The social justice of what I say is more important than anything else including rules made by people far more important and smarter than me. Go away gamma.

Blogger Arthur Isaac June 29, 2016 9:48 PM  

Or maybe really bad snark....

Anonymous Icicle June 29, 2016 9:53 PM  

I agree with Vox 100%, but 20% of these comments here are striking me as the old guys who can't open the Excel spreadsheet. "Which button again?"

Had a neighbor who did the same to a new hire. He figured he had nothing invested in her and it would send a message to the rest of the company.

If I'm the new hire that means I also have nothing invested. Which means it wouldn't really cost me much to see you suffer.

Be sure to keep that in mind.

Anonymous WaterBoy June 29, 2016 10:13 PM  

From the linked article:

"We accompanied the proposal with a petition, signed by all of the interns (except for one who declined to sign it) and gave it to our managers to consider."

Ah, yes. Products of the Change.org Generation. If only they can just get enough signatures.....

Blogger Lazarus June 29, 2016 10:14 PM  

Icicle wrote:Be sure to keep that in mind.

Can an Excel spreadsheet be used for a blacklist? I don't know, because I don't need to open one. But I have people who can.

Ice...

Man....

Blogger Lazarus June 29, 2016 10:19 PM  

WaterBoy wrote:Ah, yes. Products of the Change.org Generation. If only they can just get enough signatures.....

Back in the day, the federal government minions used to count written letter to a representative as 800 votes.

I imagine now that representatives count a Change.org signature as possibly one-tenth of a vote.

Blogger CM June 29, 2016 10:30 PM  

That's not necessarily the case, but it is a red flag. Always ask yourself this question: is it my direct responsibility? If the answer is no, KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT.

Its not an issue that I tend to act on. It is a mentality I have that could get me in hot water if I don't know better. But good question to ask. Thank you.

The line crossing is a bit more vague when I enter church settings and the state of children's or women's ministries. As I get older, I've come to the conclusion if I won't/can't be doing anything about it either from ability or time, I'll keep my mouth shut.

Blogger Moon Man June 29, 2016 10:39 PM  

I will say that public accounting, at least at larger firms (and not just big 4) is geared toward on the job learning. We expect the kids to come in with some basic knowledge but a lot of what's needed to do the job is taught as you go. The leverage model allows for it. I'm a tax partner in a top 15 (but not big 4) firm. I took a lot of tax courses in school but learning tax concepts from a book and preparing a return and workpapers can only be gained by someone giving you the chance to do it.

Did some audit work as well in my day and the audit class is crap. You
follow along with last year's workpapers. The first year or two is learning the "how". After that, if you can understand the "why", you generally are ok. Same with tax.

Getting them to a point there they can see the big picture is the most important step. Someone took the time and patience to do it with me. So now I do so with those who come after me.

Based on your post I can tell you are a conscientious accountant and a credit to our profession.

Blogger Bob Loblaw June 29, 2016 10:47 PM  

Back in the day, the federal government minions used to count written letter to a representative as 800 votes.

I imagine now that representatives count a Change.org signature as possibly one-tenth of a vote.


I have friends who worked in Congressional offices. As it happens they do scale your input based on the trouble it took. Clicking a button on the internet doesn't mean much to your congressman; a written letter does.

Blogger Marie June 29, 2016 10:48 PM  

@ CM

"The threat of being passed over because I asked about dress code (even so nitpicky as to whether flat dress shoes are acceptable) is not useful."

Asking about the dress code is perfectly acceptable. Asking for a copy of the dress code policy after you get an offer is a great idea. Just say you want to be prepared for your first week.

If it isn't in the written policy and doesn't violate good taste and sense you are probably fine. Most places do not require heels, but look around during your interview and see what others are wearing. You will probably have at least two outfits (for interviews) already ready to go.

Follow the written policy and make a good faith effort and you will be fine. If there is some "unspoken rule" or even a minor violation, someone will clue you in.

The lady whose offer I trashed had been provided with the policy and was challenging it, not asking for clarification.

Anonymous Icicle June 29, 2016 10:53 PM  

Can an Excel spreadsheet be used for a blacklist? I don't know, because I don't need to open one. But I have people who can.

Ice...

Man....


Well Lazarus, if the only tactics you need to worry about are legal corporate ones.

But don't worry, your blacklist should keep you safe.

Getting it yet?

Blogger Unknown June 29, 2016 10:53 PM  

@186

I did lots of book keeping in the Navy, so the accounting classes I've had so far were pretty familiar. Learning where to put data and how it gets summed up and presented is Accounting in a nutshell. I still don't like computing bond maturations, but I at least understand it.
I had an accounting professor that started back before the PC desktop revolution, and she showed me some old books for a client she had in the early 80s. Makes me so much more thankful Excel exists...

Blogger Lazarus June 29, 2016 11:09 PM  

Icicle wrote:Getting it yet?

Oh ya. You are a really, really dangerous internet comment dude.

I'm shakin.

Blogger Were-Puppy June 29, 2016 11:27 PM  

@142 residentMoron

Brexit: EU says no compromise on freedom of movement
---

Screw that. EU needs them more than UK needs them. Let them trade around the world with other countries, and keep their borders under control.

Anonymous 1489 June 29, 2016 11:44 PM  

"That's not necessarily the case, but it is a red flag. Always ask yourself this question: is it my direct responsibility? If the answer is no, KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT"

Oh I don't know. My first job in the my industry I saw opportunities to rise by offering better ideas and solutions to issues that were not my business. I climbed over six people who were my senior by doing this and eventually left with a fifth of the business to start my own firm.

If you can do the job better than someone else you are wasting your time and labor if someone who can help you and pay you more doesn't know about it.

Blogger Derek Kite June 29, 2016 11:49 PM  

What is funny about this is that many here have worked and are established in a career, with skills and abilities. If I was doing an interview, I would be doing the interview to see whether I fit into the organization. I know what I'm able to do, know what I will not tolerate, and know my worth. If I decided to work for someone it would be a mutually beneficial arrangement.

But I have an established record in my industry, and have worked for years productively. But when starting out? Oh was I ever aware of how little I knew and how I needed to learn, and learn quickly.

Oh, I also have a rule never to work for someone who isn't smarter than me.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 29, 2016 11:58 PM  

Derek Kite wrote:Oh, I also have a rule never to work for someone who isn't smarter than me.

Not really an option for some of us.

Anonymous Dorney June 30, 2016 12:27 AM  

VD does not understand as he has never had to earn a living in his life. Sorry son of privilege that he is. Scalzi has achieved much more from a lower start and that kills VD.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 30, 2016 12:33 AM  

Dorney wrote:VD does not understand as he has never had to earn a living in his life. Sorry son of privilege that he is. Scalzi has achieved much more from a lower start and that kills VD.

Is the sky blue on your world?

Anonymous Icicle June 30, 2016 12:40 AM  

Oh ya. You are a really, really dangerous internet comment dude.

Thank you.

I'm shakin.

Michael J. Fox's lovechild?

Not really an option for some of us.

Indeed.

Anonymous Dorney June 30, 2016 12:45 AM  

Deleted for the usual gamma idiocy.

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