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Wednesday, June 29, 2016

The insanity of Pink SF

Imagine, if you will, the idea of "species-neutral" fiction. And in that school of writing, it was decided by those who adhere to it that true literary quality was determined by how closely the author managed to eliminate all signs of what species an animal belonged to. The more difficult it was to determine whether an animal was a cat or a dog, the harder it was to distinguish between a horse and a cow, or a rabbit and fox, the better the writing was considered to be.

Do you think that this new school of writing might have an effect if books like Watership Down or Misty of Chincoteague or even Mr. Popper's Penguins were rewritten? Do you think this species-neutrality would it change them for the better or for the worse?

Because, you see, that is much the same effect that the race-neutrality and sex-neutrality have on Pink SF books and short stories. And yet, that is precisely their objective! McCreepy, otherwise known as Tor Books author Jim C. Hines, explains the ideal way for a Pink SF writer duly devoted to race- and sex-neutrality to improve her writing.

I would, of course, have written "his writing" according to the rules of English grammar, but I am interested in improving my literary style and I am reliably informed that "gender-swapping" is the way to do it.
Jim C. Hines
Years ago, I went back and rewrote a story, changing from a male PoV protagonist to female. It was educational and eye-opening, and made me see a lot of unconscious and ingrained assumptions I’d been carrying.

Samizdat
I did that with my WIP, swapped the male lead to female, then had the same people read what I had so far. The women loved it, the men hated it, whereas before the men loved it, and the women were just sorta meh about it. Made me decide to leave it as a female lead. I figured, if it was making the men so uncomfortable, then I was doing something right.

John L. Payton
You’ve demonstrated an excellent exercise here, one that any writers’ group would do well to adopt. If the piece sounds unrealistic when gender-swapped, then it needs more work. I intend to keep this in mind. Thank you.

Jim C. Hines
Masculinity can be toxic as hell. We could do whole books about the physical and emotional rigidity, the brutal punishment for men who stray too far from the narrowly-defined idea of what a man “should” be, the obsession with power and control and the damage that does to men and the people around them, and so much more. Getting rid of sexism and creating a more aware and accepting culture when it comes to gender would benefit everyone involved, not just women.
What is astonishing, and all too telling, is Samizdat's reaction to the men hating her protagonist. Instead of deciding that it is a terrible idea to intentionally pursue a strategy that her readers hate, she decides that cramming it down their throats is "doing something right". And then these people are surprised and dismayed when they discover that no one is interested in buying or reading their books.

Just remember, if there are any observable differences in the behavior of male and female characters in your writing, they must be eradicated. Also, please try to avoid using the terms "cat" and "dog", as they, too, are offensive. The preferred term is "companion animal of indeterminate species".

They really believe this nonsense. Sarah Hoyt's term, "grey goo", is apt indeed. I've written before about how their moralblindness renders their works devoid of color to their artistic detriment, but now they have thrown out perspective and are intentionally blurring the monochromatic lines as well. They are intentionally doing their best to render their works flat, unrealistic, and devoid of life, so it should come as no surprise that they have succeeded so well in doing so.

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130 Comments:

Anonymous SnowyMystic June 29, 2016 8:14 AM  

Behold! The champions of diversity! The least diverse people you will ever meet, each possessing the same wretched contents as xir xellow.

Look in horror and/or amusement, for they do make a mockery of speech, thought and the written word.

Chestless men one and all.

It is amusing that the chestless men are the ones who desire to be the conditioner of man.

Would that they would turn from their vain efforts.

Anonymous trk June 29, 2016 8:22 AM  

Their obsession w sex is beyond creepy. Instead of being creative they just want to play dress up and see how Ken looks in a dress. And then they wonder why no one will play w them.

Blogger dienw June 29, 2016 8:24 AM  

We could apply this concept to painting: color-neutral, value neutral, and pigment neutral will open up entire boulevards of creativity,

OpenID sooootired June 29, 2016 8:34 AM  

Use a bikini girl in advertising...How can you alienate half your potential customers?

Experiment with your writing and men hate the change...You're doing something right.

Anonymous Faceless June 29, 2016 8:41 AM  

I continue to be baffled by sentences like this:

"We could do whole books about the physical and emotional rigidity, the brutal punishment for men who stray too far from the narrowly-defined idea of what a man “should” be"

Not molesting children and leaving all the experimentation to your time at the Lambda Lambda Lambda frat house is not rigid and narrowly-defined.

I heard a woman on the radio that was a woman who liked men but actually sounded like a woman. It was refreshing.

Blogger Krul June 29, 2016 8:42 AM  

"I figured, if it was making the men so uncomfortable, then I was doing something right."

"... because I'm stupid"

Anonymous Faceless June 29, 2016 8:43 AM  

Perhaps it's the midwit phenomenon combined with Eve's rebellion - they want to claim that it's narrowly-defined because they just don't understand, and they resort to xenophobic hate of that which they do not understand?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 29, 2016 8:44 AM  

Hines must be your agent of influence within Tor, bang up job I must say.

The times I have had to listen to the nuttiest of the nuts go off on tangents such as this I have asked them to explain it in detail, crickets after that, nothing really there. And honestly I am interested to hear such a person speak, but it is usually just some facile virtue signaling remarks and nothing else.

Hines probably wishes he were a Trump and banging hot models, secret stud you know.

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 29, 2016 8:46 AM  

I figured, if it was making the men so uncomfortable, then I was doing something right.

This is a typical modern view of "art."

"Art should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable."

"Art," must disturb to be any good. Mostly this laziness on the part of the artist. Because it's fairly easy to disturb, just trot out the nastiest things in back your mental closet.

Mostly what art as disturbance is, is intellectual masturbation by the artist.

It's that good.



Anonymous Faceless June 29, 2016 8:49 AM  

@9

I'm sure that's why I don't like "art" per se; I like pretty things.

Anonymous Faceless June 29, 2016 8:53 AM  

@9

I had to go to a trip to a modern art museum as part of some work function. The only thing I thought was art was the furniture. They had a gallery of desks, tables, chairs, curios, buffets - all sorts of things made by all sorts of nameless, faceless craftsmen. Whereas the painting of the black square in the corner of the a field of white had a name and a story, the furniture had much plainer identification without the name of the craftsman who built it or the designer who made the style.

"Black Square on White Field by Pretentious Q Portense Part of her exploratory phase. Feel the sexual tension of the black square. Does it want to be more integrated to the white square? Would it make a gray canvas baby? On loan from the Dorothy J Spinster Collection."

vs

"Mid-18th Century Desk"

Blogger James Dixon June 29, 2016 8:58 AM  

> ...explains the ideal way for a Pink SF writer duly devoted to race- and sex-neutrality to improve her writing. ... I would, of course, have written "his writing" according to the rules of English grammar,

Oh, I don;t know. I'd guess the former has a much greater chance of being correct.

> Also, please try to avoid using the terms "cat" and "dog", as they, too, are offensive. The preferred term is "companion animal of indeterminate species".

My cat has just been triggered, and wants to find a safe space. I think he'd prefer that it be in Hines' entrails.

Anonymous VFM #6306 June 29, 2016 9:01 AM  

Give me the night's noncolors, give me the grays of summer, Parent don't give my Kodachrome no say...

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 29, 2016 9:03 AM  

Masculinity can be toxic as hell. We could do whole books about the physical and emotional rigidity, the brutal punishment for men who stray too far from the narrowly-defined idea of what a man “should” be, the obsession with power and control and the damage that does to men and the people around them, and so much more. Getting rid of sexism and creating a more aware and accepting culture when it comes to gender would benefit everyone involved, not just women.

Good lord, that was one...O-N-E...sentence. There is only one period in this paragraph.

Attention Hines, masculinity is not the worst problem a scribbler can have.

Although, clearly and obviously it is utterly beyond you.

This is the kind of silly crap that undermines the integrity of strong characters in the name of feminist insanity.

We need a female James Bond!

We need a female Doctor Who!

Except these stupid arguments shatter if you put the shoe on the other foot.

We need a male Xena!

We need a male Buffy!

You see these last two were strong feminist female characters...created by men.

Which is to say they were men with tits.

Consequently you could change the sex on them and never notice the difference.

That is what strong feminist writing does for you.


Caveat; I admit that changing the Master to Missy worked on Dr. Who but that was only because the character was so flimsy to begin with. And credit where it's due, Michelle Gomez went for it. She really threw herself into that part.

Anonymous Elipe June 29, 2016 9:06 AM  

So they'd prefer that half their readership hated the new direction and the other half love it, than that one half loves the work and the other half is indifferent?

So they actually prefer losing readers. That's good to know. Gentlemen, we have an audience.

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 29, 2016 9:09 AM  

@11 Faceless

Art by the Patriarchy

Art by Feminist

You may regard the word "feminist" as a trigger warning.

Anonymous VFM #6306 June 29, 2016 9:10 AM  

The women who "loved" Samizdat's brutal edits are the same ones who told her to get that "really cute" pixie cut.

She didn't cut her potential market by half, like the girls promised her, but by 100%.

Blogger guest June 29, 2016 9:12 AM  

She can write books that repulse men for a hobby, and she can eat with food-stamps, being the take-away of this, I suppose.

Blogger guest June 29, 2016 9:13 AM  

She can write books that repulse men for a hobby, and she can eat with food-stamps, being the take-away of this, I suppose.

Blogger Amy June 29, 2016 9:21 AM  

@ Cataline Sergius, if it doesn't disturb, then you have paintings of trees and ceramic wax warmers to plug into your bathroom wall. Maybe a sculpture of some flowers. Craft,not art.

Mostly what art as disturbance is, is intellectual masturbation by the artist.

I was in grade school/high school when Nirvana broke big. Like many other teens, I took straight to them, loving the rhythm and beat and fashion, but hearing little of the message. Now, when I go back and really listen to the lyrics, I get it: Cobain felt like he should have been aborted, like his whole life and generation and culture was or should have been an abortion.mhe was outspoken about it, but the riffs and drums were so loud they obscured the conscious transmission of the " you should be dead, so go die" message.

Other artists, mostly the same story. Intellectual masturbation as you say. Emotional may be a better modifier.

Blogger synp June 29, 2016 9:24 AM  

Your use of the phrase "companion animal of indeterminate species" reveals your human-centricity. Why should the animal be the companion of the human rather than the human being the companion of the animal? And humans can be companions of other humans as well. I find this phrase highly offensive.

Blogger Josh June 29, 2016 9:26 AM  

Thank you for reminding me that these freaks actually exist.

Blogger Human Animal June 29, 2016 9:28 AM  

You may regard the word "feminist" as a trigger warning.
Feminism is new. While Patriarchy had thousands of years to develop. And Feminism hasn't even enslaved half the population yet.

Years ago, I went back and rewrote a story, changing from a male PoV protagonist to female.
I did the exact opposite. Story was immediately improved. Bet New Star Wars would have been too if we followed the plucky ace pilot character instead of what's her name.

The Alt-Right is going to save a lot of artistic careers by red pilling its members.

Anonymous BGKB June 29, 2016 9:32 AM  

To be fair Samizdat might want to only write books for lesbians. It seems that the only thing young men can do to be rebels is to be masculine.

Chestless men one and all. There men's chests stick out and jiggle more than their women's.

We need a female James Bond! The next Bond will be Bond, Gaynigger Bond

Caveat; I admit that changing the Master to Missy worked on Dr. Who but

Don't forget River Song used to be a nigglet born of the 2 white Ponds.

OpenID basementhomebrewer June 29, 2016 9:32 AM  

I think this is great revelation. Let me be the first to encourage them to continue to remove the vibrancy from their stories while repeating #vibrancyisourstrength in a monotone.

I am sure their publishers will love it and dutifully print hundreds of thousands of copies. If they don't they are hateful racist misogynists.

Blogger synp June 29, 2016 9:32 AM  

Cataline Sergius wrote:
We need a male Xena!

We need a male Buffy!

You see these last two were strong feminist female characters...created by men.

Which is to say they were men with tits.

Consequently you could change the sex on them and never notice the difference.

Xena, yes. Buffy? Not really.

The funny/interesting/attractive thing about Buffy, at least at the start was that it was so much like other teen-age girl TV series with sudden, jarring shifts into vampire slaying, followed immediately by returning to high-school rom-com.

That actually was pretty cool.

Blogger Gaiseric June 29, 2016 9:38 AM  

Amy wrote:@ Cataline Sergius, if it doesn't disturb, then you have paintings of trees and ceramic wax warmers to plug into your bathroom wall. Maybe a sculpture of some flowers. Craft,not art.
I'm neither disturbed, nor do I think that it's mere craft, when I look at the works of Frank Frazetta, Howard Pyle, Frederick Remington, etc. There's a whole huge ouevre of work in the Romantic era of early 19th century art that doesn't really disturb, and is certainly not craft fit only to be hung in cheap motels in bulk.

You're implying a false binary.

OpenID basementhomebrewer June 29, 2016 9:38 AM  

I believe they aren't going far enough. All story characters should now be referred to as collections of matter. The fact that it would alienate anti-matter is problematic, but the line has to be drawn somewhere.

Blogger James Dixon June 29, 2016 9:47 AM  

> Why should the animal be the companion of the human rather than the human being the companion of the animal?

Oh, they are. Just ask a cat. They'll be happy to explain the relationship to you.

Blogger dienw June 29, 2016 9:48 AM  

@ 16. Cataline Sergius
I don't see what the difficulty is; just because she didn't...paint...between...the columns is not a reason to think her work is inferior. /sarc

Blogger Student in Blue June 29, 2016 9:49 AM  

According to their insanity, if you cannot change a character from male to female or vice versa, and it make sense, then it is sexist writing.

Of course, their focus is on men being too much like men. Even women being too much like women gets blamed on men. Toxic masculinity and all that garbage. They tear down men in fiction until they are nothing but women who can't give birth and don't even look that good.

Most fiction is unreadable garbage now, once you've broken past the blue pill conditioning and realize the lies that are being shoved on us.

Blogger Marsh 01701 June 29, 2016 9:52 AM  

the Lathe of Heaven is running a bit late.

Anonymous Viking June 29, 2016 9:53 AM  

They do bring up an interesting point even if you do have to turn it completely around to get any truth from it.

Perhaps a useful exercise in writing would be to remove all the gender specific language *temporarily* and then see if male characters can be distinguished from female characters. If they cannot then you are probably not describing them realistically.

And speaking of Pink fiction. Vox, would you or Spacebunny have perhaps a small list of recommended reading for young women. Classic or modern, that they would both enjoy and grow positively from. A healthy alternative for the emotional porn that dominates these days.

Blogger Amy June 29, 2016 10:00 AM  

@Gaiseric, I didn't intend to, and thank you for pointing it out. I was speaking, rather, from a POV of "art is not art if it doesn't disrupt." Which is false...disturb may be the better word here. We can be disturbed by beauty, broken out of our minds enough to contemplate something higher.

Disruption is what is sought by the "art" of the Marxists and Pinks. Modernity or contemporanity have little to do with beauty. The desired debauchery as the result of disruption, the intent, appears to be paramount to beauty.

Anonymous BGKB June 29, 2016 10:00 AM  

Oddly the only woman its ok to call stupid is one smarter than the vast majority of blacks.

http://www.vdare.com/letters/a-reader-reports-astonishing-hate-directed-towards-a-civil-rights-litigant-but-its-ok
"Have you seen the Twitter hashtags #BeckyWithTheBadGrades and #ByeAbby (formerly #StayMadAbby)? They’re filled with astonishing personal attacks on Abigail Fisher, the young woman who is the plaintiff in Fisher v. Texas, which the Supreme Court decided against her (and in favor of affirmative action) last week.

I’m apoplectic. It’s not enough that they win the right to continue to discriminate against whites. They have to ridicule and torment one innocent victim who had the guts to fight the rigged system."

Anonymous andon June 29, 2016 10:09 AM  

@ BGKB - the funny part is all the minorities pretending its a level playing field now and they're not getting an extra 180-230 pts to make up for their low SAT scores

Anonymous andon June 29, 2016 10:15 AM  

6. Blogger Krul June 29, 2016 8:42 AM
"I figured, if it was making the men so uncomfortable, then I was doing something right."

"... because I'm stupid"


or because she hates men?

Blogger Arthur Isaac June 29, 2016 10:19 AM  

Toxic masculinity? Sounds like it is time again for Spartans and male only schools.

Anonymous Jon Bromfield June 29, 2016 10:21 AM  

"It's easy to be interesting, extremely difficult to be beautiful."

-Gustav Mahler on the avant garde atonal music of his time.

Blogger James Dixon June 29, 2016 10:23 AM  

> Toxic masculinity? Sounds like it is time again for Spartans and male only schools.

Well past time, but they won't be able to accept federal funding or take students who do.

Blogger Josh June 29, 2016 10:26 AM  

Sounds like it is time again for Spartans and male only schools.

Except without the pederasty, right?

Blogger Chiva June 29, 2016 10:27 AM  

Masculinity can be toxic as hell.

The I suggest you cut off the offending member, root and all. Your mind is already neutered.

Blogger Arthur Isaac June 29, 2016 10:27 AM  

Please reconsider the terms "companion" and "animal" as they both are pejorative in nature. "Being" is proper here.

Blogger Arthur Isaac June 29, 2016 10:27 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Arthur Isaac June 29, 2016 10:29 AM  

Pederasty isn't apparently the worst thing in the world.

Blogger Arthur Isaac June 29, 2016 10:30 AM  

Double bonus.

Blogger Josh June 29, 2016 10:30 AM  

Pederasty isn't apparently the worst thing in the world.

Found the SFWA member

Blogger dienw June 29, 2016 10:34 AM  

@ 35 I’m apoplectic. It’s not enough that they win the right to continue to discriminate against whites.

They won the privilege, not the right.

Blogger Marie June 29, 2016 10:34 AM  

"Masculinity can be intoxicating."

Fixed it.

The point is to take the Hines comment and re-write it from a female perspective, right?

Blogger Josh June 29, 2016 10:38 AM  

I’m apoplectic. It’s not enough that they win the right to continue to discriminate against whites. They have to ridicule and torment one innocent victim who had the guts to fight the rigged system.

Someone hasn't read SJWSAL

Anonymous Smile Of The Shadow June 29, 2016 10:41 AM  

I had a buddy who did an experiment with metrics. He actually has a robust spreadsheet that tracks different data about his short stories, what sells, what doesn't and I have to make sure he's nameless of course.

When he changed to a female protag -- stories would have less of a percentage of getting rejected. And that's just changing pronouns and names, nothing else about the story.

He did the same thing changing descriptors to give someone dark skin or whatnot. Same effect.

When he wrote and made his name with initials rather than using his name. (I.e. if he were John Smith he'd change to J.L. Smith so it'd look like Jenny Lindsay Smith) so it looked more like a female name as an author, same effect.

And he submitted to markets hard. It was robust, not small sample sizes. Discrimination is out there. It's not against women or minorities.

Blogger Quadko June 29, 2016 10:43 AM  

Man must go out on the mountain, where nature does not care. The bear and the avalanche will kill him, the food will hide from his, and the sky will mock his powerlessness. To not return, to return empty-handed, these are failure. But man must succeed.

That is masculinity.


I told my wife something like that apropos to a question she asked about men at her job and why "it's a man's world out there". Her eyes got wide and she said she didn't want to do anything like that, ever. It was a good day. ;)

Blogger Human Animal June 29, 2016 10:45 AM  

The funny/interesting/attractive thing about Buffy, at least at the start was that it was so much like other teen-age girl TV series with sudden, jarring shifts into vampire slaying, followed immediately by returning to high-school rom-com.

That actually was pretty cool.


Fantasy is about ambiguity. Buffy is a high school drama and a horror movie. They're two different worlds, operating in the same space and the fun comes from that flipping between.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgTbvyKyPCE
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Two_silhouette_profile_or_a_white_vase.jpg

The hurdle is you have to be able to see more than one thing at a time. Stefan Molyneux would say the horror movie is just Buffy's spiral into madness. A teenage boy will probably say the vampires and real, they matter and high school is just fake bullshit.

But the fun is seeing both, caring about both, as Buffy/The Slayer does.

And that's why ideologues don't like fiction. And fanatics end up reading any story like an ink blot. And when they write fiction, they usually come up with clumsy allegories or pure wish fulfillment.

Anonymous LastRedoubt June 29, 2016 10:46 AM  

As much as I like Schlock Mercenary, I stopped listening to what Howard Tayler had to say because a) he thinks MRK actually has something to add to "Writing Excuses" (her dilution, and the fact that guys like Larry never show up anymore, are why I quit listening to the podcast), and b) because he recommended Jim Hine's stuff.

Just the blurbs on the "princess" books were enough to make me cringe even when I was far more blue pill, and the "Goblin" books were funny once, not so much the second time, and by the third book so predictably anti white male that it ceased being even boring.

Blogger Raziel Walker June 29, 2016 11:07 AM  

Not all books mention skin color, race or sexual preference of protagonists, in most cases this is not relevant either. Gender usually is because it would change every interaction between people.

A black James Bond could work. A female James Bond could not.

Female ghostbusters should be able to work as well. Admittedly, the upcoming movie is probably a showcase on everything that could go wrong in a genderswapping feminism experiment.

Female Xena? Sounds like Kevin Sorbo's Hercules.
Female Dr Who? The doctor could easily be female, he isn't exactly brimming with testosteron and it's not a serious show anyway.

Blogger pdwalker June 29, 2016 11:08 AM  

That's all fine and good. I say, it's still a free(ish) country. Let them write whatever garbage they want. The market will decide what's good and what's not.

In the meantime, we have Castalia House.

(Although Castalia house suffers from the lack of chaining and whipping of authors to keep the production up - Can't have everything I guess)

Blogger Timmy3 June 29, 2016 11:09 AM  

Sex-neutrality doesn't help women. It can alienate women since women always expect the stories to be tailored to make them accessible and relatable. Thus, changing a protagonist to be female will work to gain women reader, but they do nothing to attract male readers. Authors should decide whether they cater to one market or the other. They can't do both. In the end, we are back to women writing for women and men writing for men. Gender neutral writers are writing to win awards.

Blogger John Williams June 29, 2016 11:13 AM  

I figured, if it was making the men so uncomfortable, then I was doing something right.
*inceases tension on the rack & the SJW gibbers increase in pitch as his elbow dislocates with a loud 'pop' and figures he's doing something right.*

Blogger VD June 29, 2016 11:16 AM  

That's all fine and good.

Good? It's fantastic! I hope every single Tor Books author who isn't named "John C. Wright" follows his advice to the letter.

Blogger Orville June 29, 2016 11:17 AM  

Masculinity can be toxic as hell. Oh for fuck's sake. Go play dress up at Johnny's house. But in all seriousness, I almost feel like adopting that. Toxic masculinity is the chemotherapy for metastatic feminism.

Best Tools For Men

Blogger John Williams June 29, 2016 11:18 AM  

Gender neutral writers are writing to win awards
Is a book where the species & sex of the amorous dinosaurs undistinguable award worry? Only Chuck Tingle can find out.

Blogger Orville June 29, 2016 11:23 AM  

Jim Hines must have been on the writing team for "Finding Dory" and it's transgendered Stingray.

Blogger Arthur Isaac June 29, 2016 11:41 AM  

Yeah, no.

Blogger Arthur Isaac June 29, 2016 11:45 AM  

Yeah, no.

OpenID basementhomebrewer June 29, 2016 12:01 PM  

BGKB wrote:
"Have you seen the Twitter hashtags #BeckyWithTheBadGrades and #ByeAbby (formerly #StayMadAbby)? They’re filled with astonishing personal attacks on Abigail Fisher, the young woman who is the plaintiff in Fisher v. Texas, which the Supreme Court decided against her (and in favor of affirmative action) last week.

I’m apoplectic. It’s not enough that they win the right to continue to discriminate against whites. They have to ridicule and torment one innocent victim who had the guts to fight the rigged system."



These hash tags can conveniently be changed to #BlackyWithTheBadGrades and #StayMadBlacky. I imagine the laughing would stop on a dime.

Anonymous LastRedoubt June 29, 2016 12:07 PM  

@Orville

Toxic masculinity is the chemotherapy for metastatic feminism.

Nero always says feminism is cancer. I need to steal that.

Anonymous SciVo June 29, 2016 12:15 PM  

The difference-erasers are problematic and triggering for the trannies, who believe very strongly in gender -- and who are in turn problematic and triggering for the radfems, who are very angry at male LARPers invading their safe spaces for womyn-born-womyn.

That's why I love the word "oikophobia" so much: there's no one thing that progressives are all for. The only thing that truly unites them is being Anti-Normal.

This helps explain why Islam trumps feminism: it's perfectly Normal for occidental women to want to be safe, whereas vain aliens in a violent death cult are Anti-Normal, so it's racist to report if they rape you.

Anonymous Wilbur Hassenfus June 29, 2016 12:18 PM  

Masculinity is no more toxic than peanuts, but if your mother raised you in girl's clothes and never let you play outside in the dirt, you might have an acquired adverse reaction to either one.

Anonymous SciVo June 29, 2016 12:52 PM  

Viking wrote:Perhaps a useful exercise in writing would be to remove all the gender specific language *temporarily* and then see if male characters can be distinguished from female characters. If they cannot then you are probably not describing them realistically.

A similar exercise is with dialogue, to see if readers can tell who is speaking without being told. For example, I like Questionable Content, but this guest strip nailed it.

Anonymous Spartacus xxxxx June 29, 2016 1:04 PM  

Samizdat
..swapped the male lead to female, then had the same people read what I had so far. The women loved it, the men hated it, whereas before the men loved it, and the women were just sorta meh about it. Made me decide to leave it as a female lead. I figured, if it was making the men so uncomfortable, then I was doing something right.


This violates the prime directive of utilitarianism- the greatest good for the greatest number. {Love + meh} > {love + hate}; the latter totals to zero. Unless men don't count, that is.

On a different math of limits, just exactly how uncomfortable would the malicious she/it like men to become? "Right" = "Malice" in SJW math.

Blogger Avalanche June 29, 2016 1:10 PM  

@24 "Don't forget River Song used to be a nigglet born of the 2 white Ponds."

No no no -- Melody was a white infant in the orphanage (and in the spacesuit); she only 'turned' {frown} at her first regenration.

(Okay, sorry for totally 'sperging -- but but.... It's Doctor WHO!!It HAS to be right!)

I was (and am) now totally put off by the regen of the clever, bitchy but-honorable white military leader into the petty negress -- and (later) 'suddenly' all the military guys sent to shoot the Doctor when he arrived on Gallifrey were negro! What? Did Gallifray get invaded from the planet Africa?!?! {disgusted}

Blogger Amy June 29, 2016 1:22 PM  

Doctor Who has been the disappointment of the past decade. Or thereabouts. Gay lovers ( Capt Jack, Madame Vastra), gay marriage ( Vastra, the FBI agent in Day if the Moon who wanted to marry his gay black boyfriend), slavery narratives, accepting all comers despite their will to kill you (Daleks, ETC.), race awareness and worse: race erasure and the Not Noticing of differences.

Doppelgangers can become us to the point where we can die but no one would notice (The Almost People) - in fact, according to the episode, it seems humans have a moral obligation to cede their lives to their plastic betters. Allegory much?

Blogger Were-Puppy June 29, 2016 1:23 PM  

Also, please try to avoid using the terms "cat" and "dog", as they, too, are offensive. The preferred term is "companion animal of indeterminate species".
---

I really don't want to change my name to

Were-Companion_animal_of_indeterminate_species

Anonymous Spartacus xxxxx June 29, 2016 1:25 PM  

Spartacus xxxxx wrote:Samizdat

..swapped the male lead to female, then had the same people read what I had so far. The women loved it, the men hated it, whereas before the men loved it, and the women were just sorta meh about it. Made me decide to leave it as a female lead. I figured, if it was making the men so uncomfortable, then I was doing something right.


This violates the prime directive of utilitarianism- the greatest good for the greatest number. {Love + meh} > {love + hate}; the latter totals to zero. Unless men don't count, that is.

On a different math of limits, just exactly how uncomfortable would the malicious she/it like men to become? "Right" = "Malice" in SJW math.


To carry that a little further into lawfare territory, Samizdat's statement establishes a clear intent of malice. If her/its paid-for writing can be found to be fraudulent under criminal law, or even just deceptive under commercial law, there's a possibility of a civil suit for Deceptive Trade Practice and a criminal charge of wire fraud++. Often enough simply raising these kinds of possibilities can produce beneficial results. This happens sometimes when men become "so uncomfortable". Is Tor the publisher?

Blogger Avalanche June 29, 2016 1:25 PM  

@55 "A black James Bond could work. A female James Bond could not." ... "Female Dr Who?"

NOT if the point is to actually reach audiences, to actually SELL books/TV shows/movies! If writing that schlock is just to masturbate onto the pages -- feel free: do it, but fer cryin' out loud, please do NOT inflict on anyone ELSE!

And no, a black Bond would NOT work -- unless he was only working in Africa! And where would he have gained the suavity and panache to drink martinis in Gibraltar?

Nor a female Bond. What? She's gonna be a slut going around trying to seduce the passcode or entry key out of the men who hold it? Like THAT would work?! And seeing a female Bond ordering up a martini in a casino? Jarring!

Nor a female Doctor. The Doctor's 'boundaries' may not be ours but he DOES have them, and he DOES punish those individuals and species who trespass across them.


And IF you suggest these tales *could* be written, of course they could, but they would not BE Bond or the Doctor. They'd be derivative and (ha) "disruptive." Not a good thing!

Blogger Were-Puppy June 29, 2016 1:26 PM  

I've written before about how their moralblindness renders their works devoid of color to their artistic detriment, but now they have thrown out perspective and are intentionally blurring the monochromatic lines as well. They are intentionally doing their best to render their works flat, unrealistic, and devoid of life, so it should come as no surprise that they have succeeded so well in doing so.
---

It really reminds me of the forces of Order and Chaos from the Elric series. In places where one of the other held reign, very peculiar physical effects would begin to take hold. Order would become the flat, boring, sameness with no life. Chaos would be a bubbling eating away of reality into incomprehensible differences that almost made reality a non-sequitur.

Blogger Were-Puppy June 29, 2016 1:32 PM  

@20 Amy

Cobain felt like he should have been aborted, like his whole life and generation and culture was or should have been an abortion.mhe was outspoken about it, but the riffs and drums were so loud they obscured the conscious transmission of the " you should be dead, so go die" message.
---

Even though I am GenX, this is the message and what GenX stood for in my mind until coming to this website. Absolutely pathetic whining.

Anonymous Wat Tyler June 29, 2016 1:32 PM  

If masculinity is toxic, Hines is one of the least threatened putative males on the planet.

Blogger Were-Puppy June 29, 2016 1:34 PM  

@24 BGKB
We need a female James Bond! The next Bond will be Bond, Gaynigger Bond
---

Please tell me it's not going to be the super duper genius from Arrow

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 29, 2016 1:43 PM  

Hines needs to tell the glorious men of color their masculinity is toxic. If he gets whacked, TFB

Blogger Were-Puppy June 29, 2016 1:45 PM  

@71 Avalanche

I was (and am) now totally put off by the regen of the clever, bitchy but-honorable white military leader into the petty negress -- and (later) 'suddenly' all the military guys sent to shoot the Doctor when he arrived on Gallifrey were negro! What? Did Gallifray get invaded from the planet Africa?!?! {disgusted}
---

Glad I quit watching that SJW fest

Blogger Jim June 29, 2016 1:48 PM  

Dammit!
If I'd only known that making readers unhappy on purpose was a legitimate authorial goal I would have been self-publishing my terrible stories on Amazon for years already.

Blogger Were-Puppy June 29, 2016 1:49 PM  

We need a comeback of Robert E Howard, and adventure stories of all types where men are men, and women are women. And animals are animals :P

Blogger John Wright June 29, 2016 1:50 PM  

"What is astonishing, and all too telling, is Samizdat's reaction to the men hating her protagonist. Instead of deciding that it is a terrible idea to intentionally pursue a strategy that her readers hate, she decides that cramming it down their throats is "doing something right". And then these people are surprised and dismayed when they discover that no one is interested in buying or reading their books."

Forgive me for my peculiar obsession with First Century heretics, but this sounds like Gnosticism to me.

The Gnostics thought that life was unfair, God was the devil, the Devil was god, and the only way to deal with life was too escape from it entirely.

The parallels between the way Gnostic felt about God and the way modern Leftists feel about morality, authority, masculinity, fatherhood, have gone from being merely creepy to downright freakish.

A main Gnostic doctrine was the doctrine of moral inversion. It is the idea that everyone in the world has been deceived, and everyone lies about basic matters of right and wrong, so that the only enlightened thing to do is always do what the world calls wrong, and avoid what the world calls right.

By this logic, if the world reacts with disgust or even horror at what you do and say, you know that what you do and say is good and true and faithful BECAUSE everyone else things it is disgusting.

And you can pat yourself on the back for seeing through the illusions that defeat the vulgar plebeians and loathsomely stupid bourgeoisie. Shocking them out of their false daydream of goodness and rightness, is, to the Gnostic, not just a moral act of heroism akin to tyrannicide, it is, in the final analysis, the sole moral good any man can do.

Now ask yourself one question: We have seen orthodox Christian produce things like cathedrals and operas and modern science. Can anyone name a single Gnostic achievement, a famous writer, a composer of something grand?

The only name that comes to mind for me is John Crowley, author of LITTLE BIG, whose writings, as they became more Gnostic, became increasingly incomprehensible and even disgusting. (I stopped reading this author after I encountered a scene where a man was either in reality or in an elfish spell having pederast-homosex necrophilia relations with the ghost of his own underage son. This was the hero, and the sexual act was presented as a charming and romantic exploration of something mysterious and magical)

I adduce this to be proof of the Vox Day theory of SJW Convergence: once any institution is fully converted to the cause of social justice, it ceases its core functions. Mr. Crowley was converted by Gnosticism (a forerunner of SJWism) and lost the ability to write novels in order to pursue the hobby of writing gross propaganda for his heresy.

Blogger Orville June 29, 2016 1:51 PM  

"A black James Bond could work. A female James Bond could not."

I'm most triggered about the black "Uncle Buck". That, sir, is a travesty.

Anonymous SciVo June 29, 2016 1:53 PM  

Were-Puppy wrote:I really don't want to change my name to

Were-Companion_animal_of_indeterminate_species


Too late! You could be an armadillo, gerbil, shark, or etc. and we wouldn't know.

Blogger Jim June 29, 2016 1:56 PM  

The only people who want a black or female James Bond are the ones who hate James Bond as he is now.

Blogger Orville June 29, 2016 2:01 PM  

I be Bond, James Bond, fo shizzle!

Blogger VFM #7634 June 29, 2016 2:06 PM  

Just remember, if there are any observable differences in the behavior of male and female characters in your writing, they must be eradicated.

One would think a high-quality author would be able to make his characters accurately and identifiably male or female, while the hack would pay no attention to sex. I must be missing something.

Anonymous krymneth June 29, 2016 2:20 PM  

I still hold out hope that Whedon might someday break free of the shackles he's operating under. By the characters he writes, he is at least capable of occasionally thinking the heretical thoughts, and at least briefly operating with them. Buffy, for all it was about being a girl-power reversal of the damsel-in-distress trope, is still about a girl having a lot more power, and the consequences thereto. I wouldn't call it "red pill" or anything, but it's less benighted than most things you'd expect today, if for no other reason than being a good writer is in direct opposition to being converged, and I do think he is a good writer.

I mean, yes, if I had to bet, I'd bet against him ever breaking free. I'm sure he's pretty comfortable by now. But I still hold out some hope. I don't personally care what he does, but it would do a lot of other people a lot of good if he could start pushing better messages more clearly.

Blogger Noah B June 29, 2016 2:23 PM  

Remember folks - antiracism is diversity denial.

Anonymous GreyS June 29, 2016 2:25 PM  

I call on Jim Hines to reject the "narrowly-defined idea of what a man “should” be" and prove his manhood by calling himself a "wife" and his spouse a "husband". Show us how it's done by referring to his spouse as "he".

Fight the patriarchy, McCreepy!!!

Blogger VD June 29, 2016 2:38 PM  


The only name that comes to mind for me is John Crowley, author of LITTLE BIG, whose writings, as they became more Gnostic, became increasingly incomprehensible and even disgusting.


I found LITTLE BIG to be tedious and didn't finish reading it. So, I vote no there too.

Anonymous Headcannon June 29, 2016 2:54 PM  

@83 https://cirsova.wordpress.com/

It's a start.

Blogger CM June 29, 2016 2:55 PM  

Viking -

Reading for girls, I grew up on Anne of Green Gables and Louisa May Alcott. I think I read nearly EVERY LMA book could find. While there is a taste of the new century feminism, it is downplayed and femininity is at the forefront. Stay away from the rest of LMM outside of Anne as its overly romanticized and the anne movies play up the feminism.


The 5 little peppers and how they grew is endearing and sweet with strong male roles and gentle, traditional girls. The mother IS proverbs 31.

Rebecca of Sunnybrook farms is also enjoyable.

Beyond that, gender specific books are not really necessary. I read mostly biographical work and historical fiction outside this.

Anonymous andon June 29, 2016 2:58 PM  

87. Blogger Jim June 29, 2016 1:56 PM
The only people who want a black or female James Bond are the ones who hate James Bond as he is now.


prob true

Blogger CM June 29, 2016 3:03 PM  

Oh... also Laura Ingalls Wilder. And the bioraphy of Rose Wilder is a great cautionary tale.

Blogger CM June 29, 2016 3:03 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous BGKB June 29, 2016 3:08 PM  

now and they're not getting an extra 180-230 pts to make up for their low SAT scores

I wish that was all they are getting, some colleges being a non Asian minority is worth more than having a perfect SAT.

No no no -- Melody was a white infant in the orphanage (and in the spacesuit); she only 'turned' {frown} at her first regenration.

Sometimes I purposely do things to push spergers buttons but not that time.

The next Bond will be Bond, Gaynigger Bond--Please tell me it's not going to be the super duper genius from Arrow

Idris Elba was who they planned to destroy the Bond series with but they realized it wouldn't pay

I be Bond, James Bond, fo shizzle!

Bond, Gaynigger Bond, I like my 40ozs shaken not stirred. Milo would probably costar.

Blogger Orville June 29, 2016 3:17 PM  

If you really want to nuke the Bond brand then put Kanye in. Please, will somebody sue me...

Anonymous Ain June 29, 2016 3:28 PM  

Ironic for somebody to name himself "Samizdat" and yet be a politically correct eunuch.

Blogger Ingot9455 June 29, 2016 3:29 PM  

I straggled through four books of John Crowley's AEgypt waiting for the big payoff which turned out to be the possibly-magical protagonist getting married and settling down. So there's that, I guess.

Haven't read LITTLE BIG yet. I did read his furry book.

Anonymous Barking Mad June 29, 2016 3:44 PM  

Take a look at how drastically gamma the header image is on McCreepy's site. I presume the characters are taken from his books, which I have no plans to read, but their representation in that image tells enough of a story its own.

You have:

On the left - two attractive, Strong Independent Wymynz (tm), sitting with each other in a cuddly and vaguely lesbian way. Naturally, they do not interact with the male character.

In the center - cobwebs and a flaming spider, for whatever reason.

On the right - The lone male character, who is a small, blue, nonthreatening goblin. Being a good gamma protagonist, he respects the independence of the SIWz and sits off by himself in a distinctly submissive, asexual and non-manspreading posture.

Blogger SirHamster June 29, 2016 3:49 PM  

Were-Puppy wrote:I really don't want to change my name to

Were-Companion_animal_of_indeterminate_species


..._and_indeterminate_maturity.

Ageism is double-plus-ungood too.

Anonymous Random American June 29, 2016 3:52 PM  

"If the piece sounds unrealistic when gender-swapped, then it needs more work. I intend to keep that in mind."

-John L. Payton


Huh.....

"John Payton's vagina was sore, and it was making him irritable. Just a week after giving natural birth to his third daughter, he had been violently sexually assaulted by a herd of Buffalo, and while he normally would have enjoyed such a thing, it was just too much all at once. His scheduled appointment for decorative labial piercing would just have to wait, but, despite the potential discomfort, he couldn't bring himself to call of his date with Justin Bieber."

Hmmm...realistic? Maybe he's on to something!

Blogger tublecane June 29, 2016 4:14 PM  

@20-Not surprising you missed the message, because most of the lyrics are gobbledygook. I used to think it was because Cobain was a Symbolist and used words for purposes other than straightforward. But after reading some of his diary, I conclude he was barely literate and confused. Not that you have to be clearheaded to be a famous nihilist. It probably helps not to be.

Funny thing about Nirvana, they supposedly "changed music" (or pop music) by not c caring, being sour and superficially offensive, loud,obnoxious, and ugly. But the reason they were so famous is that their tunes were catchy. They were sickeningly catchy, on a bubblegum-pop, nursery-rhyme level. You could sing along and dance to them. Plus, Kurt was handsome. He did everything he could to his hair, wardrobe, facial expressions, and general demeanor not to be, but he was handsome.

Take that, modern aesthetics!

Blogger tublecane June 29, 2016 4:18 PM  

@23-Star Wars would've been marginally improved, considering the main character was overly masculine. But it'd wouldn't be good, because he'd still be an unaccountably peevish Marty Stu with a mysterious background that I can't be bothered to care about.

Anonymous EH June 29, 2016 4:31 PM  

John Wright wrote:The Gnostics thought that life was unfair, God was the devil, the Devil was god, and the only way to deal with life was too escape from it entirely.



Not a bad summation, though eliding a good deal, and the claim that they believed the Devil was God is tendentious, true only of some variants in a direct way – but perhaps true of of all if the analogy is stretched to mean that their morals were antinomian. Nevertheless, the details of first century Gnostic theology are rather beside the point when examining the motives of the modern Gnostics and their theology.

Modern Gnostics are best represented by the Quakers, who consult the Inner Light, “that of God in every man” directly in silent worship, delivering messages in meeting if they feel called to do so by the Inner Light. This Inner Light, properly speaking, is the conscience which enables one to see the implied message of Scrpture and all other modes of learning the will of God, but obviously there is a certainty that some will present their own foolish feelings, base desires and dissembling inner demons as being of God, so it is not surprising that the the Quakers are the most SJW sect on earth. To a large extent they are patient zero of the SJW epidemic, though they themselves have been reinfected by mutated forms of the virus.

“Now ask yourself one question: We have seen orthodox Christian produce things like cathedrals and operas and modern science. Can anyone name a single Gnostic achievement, a famous writer, a composer of something grand?”


Despite being the prototype of modern Gnosticism which now rules the World, Quakers were always a tiny sect, about six million in total over 400 years, but even counting only Quakers as modern Gnostics, your implication is totally off base.

The aesthietics of the Shakers were modeled on the simplicity of the Quakers, as a visit to any old meetinghouse will show, and that aesthetic has merit. There are a few well-known Quaker artists, but to limit ones appreciation to just art would be parochial – looking at the science, the crafting of instruments, the pioneering in industry and social institutions – per capita, I don't think there's a group that can claim as much achievement as these latter-day Gnostics.
:
Painters: Edward Hicks, Benjamin West, James McNeil Whistler (which makes one)

Authors: John Greenleaf Whittier, Walt Whitman, James Fenimore Cooper (about 1/2)

Sculptor/craftsman: Josiah Wedgewood

Inventors: Robert Ransome ( perfected iron ploughshare, invented interchangeable parts), Joseph Lister (Antiseptics), George Bradshaw (railway time-tables), Edward Pease (passenger rail)

Scientists: Thomas Young (formalized wave theory of light, polymath), John Dalton (chemical atomic theory), Arthur S Eddington (physicist, early advocate of relativity), Thomas Hodgkin (Described Hodgkin's disease, Sr. contributed to the development of the microscope and the medical specialty of Pathology), John Bartram (first botany of Florida and Georgia), Joseph Taylor (Nobel prize in physics)
[and I've got a further list longer than this post showing Quakers virtually made the modern world, from British mining, iron, steam engines and rail to banking, fixed-price shops and welfare institutions, but this post is long enough.]

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 29, 2016 4:33 PM  

Elipe wrote:So they'd prefer that half their readership hated the new direction and the other half love it, than that one half loves the work and the other half is indifferent?

The women said they love it. They also say they love sensitive guys.

Anonymous Spartacus xxxxx June 29, 2016 4:36 PM  

http://mileswmathis.com/cobain.pdf


Amy wrote:@

Now... I get it: Cobain felt like he should have been aborted, like his whole life and generation and culture was or should have been an abortion... the riffs and drums were so loud they obscured the conscious transmission of the " you should be dead, so go die" message.

Other artists, mostly the same story.


That was the message from your Gen X programmers. After all, they had your diverse & sundry replacements to think of. Cobain the tool had little to do with it, he was just a hired gun.


tublecane wrote:@20-Not surprising you missed the message,... But after reading some of his diary, I conclude he was barely literate and confused. Not that you have to be clearheaded to be a famous nihilist. It probably helps not to be.

Thanks for the diary review. Compare that to the Mathis article. It's unlikely that Barely Literate Cobain actually wrote any of that music, any more than Jim "Gulf of Tonkin" Morrison did (or any of the other numerous frauds outed by Mathis, McGowan, Vigilant Citizen, and many others). As a general rule, if you hear it on the radio, there is fraud somewhere there.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 29, 2016 4:37 PM  

Amy wrote:@ Cataline Sergius, if it doesn't disturb, then you have paintings of trees and ceramic wax warmers to plug into your bathroom wall. Maybe a sculpture of some flowers. Craft,not art.



Absolute and utter bullshit.
Go look at any painting by Bouguereau. John Singer Sargent. Hell, DaVinci.
Then realize you've been sold a false view of what art is. Art is what Tolkein called "sub-Creation", the use of those faculties that are the image of God within us. Art is not there to disturb. Art exists to reveal beauty. Art exists to reveal God.

Most modern art reveals the true god of the artist. Himself and his disordered sexual appetites.

Blogger tublecane June 29, 2016 4:43 PM  

@20-Most modernists and postmodernists (if there's a difference) would have you believe that anything not unpopular and ugly has to be kitsch, but that's an argument beneath response. It betrays a deep ignorance of art history. Either that, or you have to chuck the Old Masters as kitschy. But they don't do that, so I don't believe them.

Blogger CM June 29, 2016 4:50 PM  

would have you believe that anything not unpopular and ugly has to be kitsch

I always liked Thomas Kincaid, though his work tends to the gaudy. I love the concept of using light in his work.

Anonymous tublecane June 29, 2016 4:55 PM  

@55-Female Ghostbusters could work, because there are such things as female scientists, female engineers, females who aren't afraid of ghosts, and females who could become heroes by saving a city from monsters. That last one I'm not sure of, but I guess it's possible. But is that really the best possible gender to tell the story? Aren't men more likely to be scientists, be willing to fight ghosts and other supernatural forces, and save cities?

Then again, at least two of the original Ghostbusters weren't scientists, they were unlikely heroes, and they were scared most of the time. It was a comedy.

OpenID cirsova June 29, 2016 5:23 PM  

We pride ourselves in showcasing stories that feature and celebrate diversity. If anyone is willing to write a Burroughsian-style story about a Confederate Indian Freemason who served under Albert Pike and whose nemesis is a mad scientist expy of Richard Gatling, hit me up. Story must feature at least one yankee getting arrowed.

Anonymous Minion #0172 June 29, 2016 7:04 PM  

I'll say this for Jim C. Hines: if you ever encounter him at a convention he is exactly what he comes off as in his writings and blog - a self-emasculated SJW priss and, yes, really creepy. Whereas John Scalzi's public persona is, as he admits, mostly an act.

Anonymous joke10 June 29, 2016 7:35 PM  

The opposite of that writing technique would be interesting. If the character still makes sense when one of it's features has been changed, whether it be race, gender, or something else, then it needs more development.

Anonymous JAG June 29, 2016 8:47 PM  

I figured, if it was making the men so uncomfortable, then I was doing something right.

The true nature of the liberal/SJW is contrarian.

Anonymous tublecane June 29, 2016 8:51 PM  

@67-I like "neophilia" or "neomania." Often the best name to call them is "pervert."

Anonymous Hezekiah Garrett June 29, 2016 9:12 PM  

@111
First, I'm not arguing with you, I'm concurring.

B) Art is just a very old word for skill.

Third, the function of art is to bring beauty (aesthetic). You know you've had an aesthetic experience because it heightens your senses, you more alive, draws you closer to The Source of Existence.

And remember, the opposite of beautiful is not ugly, but numb. The opposite of aesthetic is anaesthetic. That so many confuse sterility with fecundity astounds me, though it shouldn't.

Anonymous Ain June 29, 2016 9:20 PM  

"The true nature of the liberal/SJW is contrarian."

It's an assault (feeble as it is) on a politically correct target. That's why Samizdat needs to change his name to Bootlicker.

Blogger Were-Puppy June 29, 2016 10:43 PM  

They are using the "mad-libs" style of writing.

Blogger Lazarus June 29, 2016 10:48 PM  

Quadko wrote:Man must go out on the mountain, where nature does not care. The bear and the avalanche will kill him, the food will hide from his, and the sky will mock his powerlessness. To not return, to return empty-handed, these are failure. But man must succeed.

That is masculinity.

I told my wife something like that apropos to a question she asked about men at her job and why "it's a man's world out there". Her eyes got wide and she said she didn't want to do anything like that, ever. It was a good day. ;)


Nicely done. I'm stealing it.

Blogger John Wright June 29, 2016 10:54 PM  

@108
An interesting way to answer the question: I ask if any Gnostics ever produced anything, and you answer that Quakers are Gnostic (when they are not) and give a list of Quaker credits.

No Quaker believes the world was created by a demiurge to trap spirits here through multiple reincarnations, for example or that a man must sample every vice and perversion at least once to achieve inner purity.

The doctrine of the Inner Light or the God within is not unique to Gnosticism nor a hallmark of it. It comes, more noticeably, from the Montanists (another early heresy) and from the Stoics. If you read Marcus Aurelius, you will hear all about the Inner God.

Blogger John Wright June 29, 2016 10:56 PM  

@111
"Absolute and utter bullshit.
Go look at any painting by Bouguereau. John Singer Sargent. Hell, DaVinci."

Hear, hear and bravo.

It takes a mind of particular flexibility to utterly ignore hundreds of years of art history, indeed, all of art history before the modern period, when making sweeping statements that do not even apply to all modern works.

It is beyond parochialism.

Blogger Dexter June 29, 2016 11:03 PM  

"By this logic, if the world reacts with disgust or even horror at what you do and say, you know that what you do and say is good and true and faithful BECAUSE everyone else things it is disgusting."

In my neighborhood to evoke disgust and horror one need only say you are a gun-owning pro-choice home-schooling Christian Trump voter who rejects gay marriage and tranny bathrooms. You will know these views are good and true when the leftard's head explodes with rage.

Blogger Dexter June 29, 2016 11:06 PM  

Pro life, ugh, how did I screw that up.

Anonymous EH June 30, 2016 2:10 AM  

John Wright wrote:No Quaker believes the world was created by a demiurge

As I said, the details of the first-century Gnostics are not relevant to the theology of today's Gnostics. Today's Gnostics do not have the elaborate points of doctrine of Catholics or their minute distinctions of heresiology. That is quite the opposite of the essential point of Gnosticism, which is that true spiritual knowledge can only come by direct experience of the spiritual, and that all else is of the World, which is false and fallen. Gnostics today are seldom interested in categorizing Aeons and their emanations, not do they usually personify the Demiurge - indeed, they are more often pantheists or at least hylozoicists who consider the world to be to the enlightened both illusion and the body of God, while at the same time being a trap and a degraded prison to the profane and unenlightened.

The Quakers' particular form of Gnosticism is closest to a mystical, streamlined form of Valentinianism: "Man, the highest being in this material world, participates in both the spiritual and the material nature. The work of redemption consists in freeing the former from the latter. One needed to recognize the Father, the depth of all being, as the true source of divine power in order to achieve gnosis (knowledge).[9] The Valentinians believed that the attainment of this knowledge by the human individual had positive consequences within the universal order and contributed to restoring that order,[10] and that gnosis, not faith, was the key to salvation. Clement wrote that the Valentinians regarded Catholic Christians “as simple people to whom they attributed faith, while they think that gnosis is in themselves. Through the excellent seed that is to be found in them, they are by nature redeemed, and their gnosis is as far removed from faith as the spiritual from the physical”.[11]"
- the latter half of the WP synopsis of Valentinianism.

That is a fair description of the Quaker belief, though in past centuries they considered Christ the source of Gnosis, but lately attribute it more often to the Holy Spirit. See Was George Fox a Gnostic?: An Examination of Foxian Theology from a Valentinian Gnostic Perspective by Glen D. Reynolds for a fuller account. Rex Ambler's review of this book states: "The strength of the book is its argument that Fox's understanding involves a real presence of God in human beings and a real transformation of human beings, enabling them to become 'perfect', free from the power of sin.

Your characterization of Gnosticism as entailing wallowing in depravity is mere empty libel, perhaps arising from some projection of the proclivities of Popes, Popish priests, and their sacrilegious cannibal mummeries -- certainly not from scholarship, and as such of course requires no rebuttal.

Anonymous Alice De Goon June 30, 2016 3:36 AM  

I see the insanity of Pink SF in a lot of fanfiction and collaborative fiction. I was browsing the story collective at the SCP Foundation website and I was getting into this story about an expedition exploring the inside of a magical artifact. The leader of the expedition was a swearing, two-fisted, crotchety captain that for all the world sounded like a man (the story was told through a series of increasingly desperate log entries.) Then somewhere in the middle of the story, it's revealed that the captain was actually a woman. I knew at that moment, that the only reason that the expedition leader was a woman was so that some millennial writer could think themselves oh-so-clever about twisting around our gender expectations, and it took me right out of the story. Forget the fantastical nature of the story setting - I could accept all kinds of crazy nonsense about magic and alternate dimensions and what it would be like to explore the inside of a Bag of Holding, but a woman who acts like a 19th Century longshoreman (and who manages to command respect while doing so), is a little tough for me to chew.

Blogger Raziel Walker June 30, 2016 4:29 AM  

@87 I don't want a black James Bond, Just saying that I don't care if the next Bond is played by Craig or Idris Elba. A British Bond is more important as a white Bond.
The only Bond I didn't like was Pierce Brosnan.

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