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Saturday, July 30, 2016

It's not about hearts on sleeves

I always enjoy it when cucks go straight to rhetoric. It's just not a field on which they're really prepared to play.
(((Popehat))) ‏@Popehat
When I think about it, my clients who are the most modestly, convincingly, and devotedly patriotic are immigrants. Hearts on their sleeves.

Supreme Dark Lord @voxday
And yet, they managed to destroy the nation all the same. It's not about hearts, but genetics and culture.

(((Popehat))) @Popehat
This guy still exists, I guess.

Supreme Dark Lord ‏@voxday
Glad to see you're still out of the funny farm. For the time being, anyhow.

(((Popehat))) ‏@Popehat
This is an adequate insult, I suppose, graded on a curve. Hardly MENSA though.

Supreme Dark Lord ‏@voxday
I try to keep things at a level the other guy will understand. Communication is so important, after all.

(((Popehat))) ‏@Popehat
Yes, I've heard your books are very easy to read.

Supreme Dark Lord ‏@voxday
That's why they're bestsellers.
He just never learns, does he. But to return to the point, no matter how much you may like something,  no matter how strongly you may identify with it, that liking for it doesn't make you that thing. I really like the Minnesota Vikings. I have since I was a child. But that doesn't make me a professional football player, much less a member of the Vikings. Seriously, this isn't that hard.

Do you regard me as an Italian, no different than Garibaldi or Totti or Dante? Or is the dirt of Italy simply less magic than that of America? No, the simple fact is that the state is not the nation. And that is why even the most loyal immigrant can never be a genuine national, even unto the third generation.

Meanwhile, this proud assimilator apparently doesn't understand his own (((heritage))) well enough to know that Judaism is matrilineal.
(((Schröd's Täint))) ‏@SmuggieMike
hey pal, I'm a Jew immigrant l who had two kids with a white Christian from the south. #ImGenocidingYou.

Supreme Dark Lord ‏@voxday
And now your kids are no longer Jewish. You're self-holocausting; you're almost Hitler. 

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153 Comments:

Anonymous Bobo July 30, 2016 6:39 PM  

Your dialog there has to somehow violate the SlapChop(tm) patent...

Anonymous Steve July 30, 2016 6:49 PM  

When I think about it, my clients who are the most modestly, convincingly, and devotedly patriotic are immigrants. Hearts on their sleeves.

That's nice, dear.

Cuckservatism means inviting strange foreign men to show you how patriotism's done I guess.

Anonymous Lulabelle July 30, 2016 6:57 PM  

I like the ask the open borders folks ..... "how long would you have to live in Japan before you became Japanese?"

Blogger VD July 30, 2016 7:00 PM  

If the answer is less than seven months, I'm also Japanese.

Anonymous DDT July 30, 2016 7:02 PM  

And now your kids are no longer Jewish. You're self-holocausting; you're almost Hitler.

Hahaha.

Of all the people who should play the #ImGenocidingYou taunt with intermarriage, jews are the last.

Anonymous EH July 30, 2016 7:06 PM  

The name sounded familiar, searched, he's a criminal defense lawyer with a blog, which on reading it appears he's a bit of a twat. Wikipedia, Scalzi and BoingBoing think he's great.
He seems a dependable, durable target dummy.

Blogger Kevin Blackwell July 30, 2016 7:08 PM  

It's like saying Obama's great great great grandchildren will consider themselves part white. I bet his daughters don't.

Anonymous andon July 30, 2016 7:10 PM  

(((Popehat))) ‏@Popehat
When I think about it, my clients who are the most modestly, convincingly, and devotedly patriotic are immigrants. Hearts on their sleeves.


hmm, the "immigrants" I notice like to fly their green flags around here. quite patriotic but not to this country.

Anonymous I'm Convinced! July 30, 2016 7:12 PM  

When I think about it, my clients who are the most modestly, convincingly, and devotedly patriotic are immigrants. Hearts on their sleeves.

Plus that blank slate they carry with them is surely helpful when combined with the good impression.

Say, does this mean Bernie Maidoff was really an honest, hardworking, investment advisor? Because he acted like one to his clients, and isn't that good enough?

Blogger Pseudotsuga July 30, 2016 7:15 PM  

My Scandinavian ancestors came over from the old country in the 1850s. My direct ancestor fought in the Civil War in a Northern regiment from the upper Midwest. When did they become "American?" I suspect that it wasn't that generation, or that man's sons, but the next (my grandfather) whose cultural outlook was actually fully American.

All ties to the old country and old country culture had melted away by then. Thinking of other immigrants I know, your 3rd generation is probably accurate for most, Vox. Some may be able to become American sooner, like at least the 2nd generation. But I think that's a rare person.

As for the open borders and Japanese question, even I know the answer to that!
The answer is never. To illustrate: if your family came from (or were taken from) Korea to live in Japan, even if that was 3 or 4 generations ago, the native Japanese still do not consider you to be Japanese. It doesn't matter that you were born there, speak the language, went to school there, yadda yadda-- you're not Japanese. If I recall correctly, even the Japanese government knows your family is not Japanese.
There is no magic soil in Japan--Amaterasu is jealous and protective of her children.

OpenID paworldandtimes July 30, 2016 7:23 PM  

If the answer is less than seven months, I'm also Japanese.

And if you dig Memphis gospel...

"Are you a Christian, child?
Ma'am, I am tonight."

PA

Blogger Patrick July 30, 2016 7:32 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Crude July 30, 2016 7:36 PM  

I'd bet that this guy's definition of 'patriotism' is along the lines of 'We should never restrict immigration to anyone, for anytime, for any reason. That's not who we are.', except it'd all be in another language.

Anonymous George of the Jungle July 30, 2016 7:38 PM  

You can give me 100 anecdotes, and I'll give you 1400 years of mohammedan conquest.

Anonymous paradox July 30, 2016 7:48 PM  

My direct ancestor fought in the Civil War in a Northern regiment from the upper Midwest. When did they become "American?"

They never became American. They picked up muskets and attacked America like good foreigners.

Anonymous Bobby Farr July 30, 2016 7:55 PM  

More of the American=good guy, rather than an ethnic group retards. At least the jew has the excuse of being self-serving.

Blogger Rick July 30, 2016 7:58 PM  

VD, you throw me with the 3rd generation part. I'm 3rd generation Portuguese/Spanish (about which I could not care less). I doubt you could find a more American American than me. It's all I know.
I don't qualify? I'm confused.
If you're in bed, maybe someone else can help me out.

Blogger pyrrhus July 30, 2016 7:58 PM  

6 billion third worlders all want to come to the US and become hyphenated Americans--better supercharge that magic dirt, and hope McDonalds can add 50 million franchises.....

Anonymous JAG July 30, 2016 7:58 PM  

I identify as Japanese so therefor I don't even need the magic dirt!

Oh wait... that would just make me a delusional weeaboo. *sadface*

Anonymous Dave July 30, 2016 7:59 PM  

You're self-holocausting; you're almost Hitler.

Oh my, classic.

Blogger The Kurgan July 30, 2016 8:03 PM  

That made laugh for a whole straight minute

Anonymous Bobby Farr July 30, 2016 8:04 PM  

And aren't Popehat's clients accused of being criminals? And he's in LA so basically these great patriots are semi-literate Mexicans who are sufficiently dysfunctional to find themselves in the criminal justice system and hiring an obese, low T pile.

Blogger Patrick July 30, 2016 8:10 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Elipe July 30, 2016 8:11 PM  

If a Mexican raped Popehat, is Popehat's ass Mexican?

No? How about on the national scale?

Anonymous Type 5 July 30, 2016 8:12 PM  

When did they become "American?"

As I understand Vox's assertions, they didn't. Let me explain why I'm willing to entertain his theories.

I was absolutely dumbfounded by the lack of resistance to the Patriot Act. I couldn't understand why Americans didn't rise up to reject it. Where there should have been bi-partisan rejection, there was, instead, bi-partisan support.

Since then, on a growing number of issues I have observed almost all of the people I know, people I grew up with, people who were taught the same American history and American political philosophy as me, routinely blow off any curtailment of civil liberties and welcome ever more intrusive government whenever they thought it convenient. For the past several years I have occasionally shared on FB articles from FIRE about assaults on free speech on campus. I thought this was a thoroughly non-partisan issue. The response to all of them has been the sound of crickets.

I have been bewildered. My only possible explanation is that embrace of basic American political ideals is a matter of temperament, not culture and education. That gets me more than halfway to Vox's ideas that such temperament is genetically based and my values are an inborn affinity to the Rights of Englishmen, not any universal ideal.

I'm not on board with him yet, but he is to be taken seriously.

Blogger kh123 July 30, 2016 8:20 PM  

"Amaterasu is jealous and protective of her children."

She beats even the Mormon Jesus by descending upon the island twice during the 20th century, without the rest of the world even knowing. How's that for thief in the night action.

Though if you think about it, you couch that whole event in Revelation-style wording, no one before or well after the fact would have ever believed it. Real-time reports of jihard-on attacks in Europe have a tough enough time getting traction in the modern world as is.

Blogger kh123 July 30, 2016 8:24 PM  

"The response to all of them has been the sound of crickets."

Most folks are too busy or, like you said, bewildered. Priorities, time-preference, call it what you will; it's probably best to lump it like you did under temperament. Explains the Irish to a large degree.

Anonymous Type 5 July 30, 2016 8:40 PM  

"Explains the Irish to a large degree."

Funny you should mention them. My best friend from high school had an Irish surname, though I never learned the family history. After college he took off for the bright lights of the Eastern Seaboard and never looked back. I was talking to him just a few weeks ago about the small Michigan town we grew up in. I remember it as a good place to be a kid, where no one ever thought to lock their doors. He remembers it as a cesspit of ignorance and bigotry. Go figure.

Anonymous Elijah Rhodes July 30, 2016 8:44 PM  

DNA drives culture. It's not the only ingredient, but it's the foundational one.

I'm of English descent on my father's side. My family settled in Massachusetts in the 1600s. And I've always been very hard right; nearly anarchist at times. I believe that's an expression of my genes. My temperament aligns with the idea of radical freedom.

My wife is a 4th generation German immigrant and her entire family is very liberal. Fortunately I've helped cure my wife of most of her socialist views, but it's still in her genes. She will never be nearly as right wing as me. She naturally aligns with ideas I find repugnant, and everyone in her family embraces them with aplomb. That's the expression of their DNA.

The reason why the United States has become incoherent is because most races that live here don't value the founding principles--on a deep, subconscious level. It's the expression of their DNA.

Cucks believe it's just a matter of education. It's not. There is not a single non-socialist country south of our border, so clearly Hispanics have an affinity for socialism. American blacks come from a gene pool that installs dictators and strong men in Africa. Asians temperamentally align with decision-making by committee. And middle easterners are about as far temperamentally from any founding American values as you can be.

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit July 30, 2016 9:09 PM  

But to return to the point, no matter how much you may like something, no matter how strongly you may identify with it, that liking for it doesn't make you that thing. I really like the Minnesota Vikings. I have since I was a child. But that doesn't make me a professional football player,

... And there's nothing you can ever do to become one. You can master the game: get a football scholarship, play well in college, earn an early round draft pick, but unless your ancestors to the nth generation were Minnesota Vikings it's right out.

Really?

Agreed: having warm passionate feelings about playing pro ball or citizenship is irrelevant to achieving either. It does not follow that this makes said achievement impossible.

Difficult sure, but that's another problem.

Anonymous SciVo July 30, 2016 9:11 PM  

Rick wrote:I'm 3rd generation Portuguese/Spanish (about which I could not care less). I doubt you could find a more American American than me. It's all I know.

I don't qualify? I'm confused.


Some people assimilate faster than others -- and some never. I think that a cursory survey of the tragic arc of African-Americanism from slave culture, to working-class culture, to thug culture, should be sufficient to convince anyone that there is a strong genetic element that can only be suppressed with constant effort. Indeed, there is an argument to be made that the civil rights movement was cruel to black communities, by removing that eucivic pressure to conform to white social norms.

A small excerpt from The Jacksonian Tradition by Walter Russell Mead:

Most progressive, right thinking intellectuals in mid-century America believed that the future of American populism lay in a social democratic movement based on urban immigrants. ...

... The tables turned, and Evans’ Americans "americanized" the immigrants rather than the other way around. ... Each generation of new Americans was less "social" and more individualistic than the preceding one. ... Ties to the countries of emigration steadily weakened, and the tendency to marry outside the group strengthened.

Outwardly, most immigrant groups completed an apparent assimilation to American material culture within a couple of generations of their arrival. A second type of assimilation—an inward assimilation to and adaptation of the core cultural and psychological structure of the native population—took longer, but as third, fourth and fifth-generation immigrant families were exposed to the economic and social realities of American life, they were increasingly "americanized" on the inside as well as without.

This immense and complex process was accelerated by social changes that took place after 1945. ... As increasing numbers of the descendants of immigrants moved into the Jacksonian Sunbelt, the pace of assimilation grew. ...

... Rugged frontier individualism has proven to be contagious; each successive generation has been more Jacksonian than its predecessor. ... The descendants of European working-class Marxists now quote Adam Smith; Joe Six-pack thinks of the welfare state as an expensive burden, not part of the natural moral order. ...


Read the whole thing.

Blogger Earl July 30, 2016 9:18 PM  

#goholocaustyourself

Blogger Lazarus July 30, 2016 9:20 PM  

Rick wrote:VD, you throw me with the 3rd generation part. I'm 3rd generation Portuguese/Spanish (about which I could not care less). I doubt you could find a more American American than me. It's all I know.

I don't qualify? I'm confused.

If you're in bed, maybe someone else can help me out.


Maybe its like this:


Exodus 34:7 preserving loving kindness for thousands, forgiving iniquity and rebellion and sin; yet He does not completely clear [of sin] He visits the iniquity of parents on children and children's children, to the third and fourth generations."

The first generation tries to fit in but still misses the old ways.

The second generation rebels, and becomes jihadist, seeking the old ways.

The third generation reacts to the 2nd, and assimilation becomes more broad.

After that, it gets murky...

Anonymous Nym Coy July 30, 2016 9:20 PM  

Third generation, if the other pairings in the line are with ethnic Americans and the child is raised in America in an American neighborhood, they'd be more American than anything else. They wouldn't be the ethnic group of the one immigrant ancestor.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore July 30, 2016 9:23 PM  

"...the state is not the nation..."

That clarified things for me. And Popehat blocked me.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother July 30, 2016 9:40 PM  

Elijah Rhodes,

I know what you're talking about. I feel those things, liberty, firearms, fuck you, the need for free speech, the desire to be left alone, get off my lawn, etc. I feel them in my bones.

Blogger Doom July 30, 2016 9:49 PM  

Almost Hitler. Oh, ouch. I mean, true enough and all. *scribbling* If it looks to really hurt, I'm stealing it. Oh, I knew it was a mother-line thing. I just hadn't met a self-eliminator on the field of battle, and wouldn't have thought of that. Noice!

All is fair in love and war. Especially if it's true. Feelings? Need be I go for the jugular, so, yeah, feelings are in. With friends like this, and potential enemies, stay sharp. Yeah, I'd take him if I had to. In love, I would do Mother Goose if it came up. In war or spar I would take Gandhi, Vox, Plato, or Heracles... meaning anyone. Even Mother Goose if she feathered up and sprang for the start. Slightly different reasons for the various fields of trial, but heartbeat and a few other particulars, and not all that many particulars either. Win? That sorts itself out.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore July 30, 2016 9:50 PM  

@31
I am of the belief that Civil Rights destroyed Black folks by successfully encouraging them/ us to abandon Black owned institutions based in the Black community. THEN the Civil Rights people gave support to LBJ's Great Society which subsidized behaviors that were incompatible with industry.

There are two competing continuums: 1) The DuBoisian continuum which is the foundation for Civil Rights and 2) the Bookerite continuum which was self-help and community development.

Popular Black culture sacrificed self sufficiency for integration and progressive politics. In so doing, they/ we embarked on a path that encouraged the demise of the Black community's infrastructure and the Black family.

Blogger LP9 Solidified in Gold! Rin Integra July 30, 2016 9:50 PM  

Easy to read? I'd be so bereft if Vox dumbed his content down, he never has, his work is been consistent and complex to the vast degree.

No surprise on good ole popehat.

Blogger Christopher Yost July 30, 2016 9:52 PM  

I've met absolutely (damned near rabid with it) naturalized immigrants while in the military.

They exist.

The numbers are likely close to statistically insignificant, though, with the imm-vasions being what they are these days.

That last crack at the Jewish guy is GOLD!

Blogger LP9 Solidified in Gold! Rin Integra July 30, 2016 9:57 PM  

This emotionalism is old, Popehate, emotionalism is failed narrative, AltRight has a Zero Frick Given Policy for emotionalism.

Word, true old fashioned fascist here, I dont want Popehat in my vicinity. It's great he is fenced at Twtar,whom banned innocent sweet kind educaitonal Milo, shame on Twitr.

Blogger dh July 30, 2016 10:05 PM  

I am of the belief that Civil Rights destroyed Black folks by successfully encouraging them/ us to abandon Black owned institutions based in the Black community. THEN the Civil Rights people gave support to LBJ's Great Society which subsidized behaviors that were incompatible with industry.

Blacks had a nice thing in the US back when the US was actually a nice place. Back befor we lost our minds, people with below average IQ's could have a nice living, doing work that was dignified, appropriately valued, and fair.

But then the Courts determined that testing based on aptitude was racist, and so now we have credentialism, everyone going into debt to go to college, and generations of black people who are trying to get a ring around the American dream. Instead of passing on paid-off homes, hard assets, and good working and middle class jobs, are instead passing on debt and paper degrees.

Back before the invasion started, you could have a really nice middle class life with a man doing hard, but menial, work and living thriftily. Now the wife must work, and the standard of living has declined as well. Double the work (or triple, or more) for less quality of life.

Blogger bob k. mando July 30, 2016 10:08 PM  

28. Type 5 July 30, 2016 8:40 PM
He remembers it as a cesspit of ignorance and bigotry. Go figure.



that's the intergenerational hate inculcated by the Cultural Marxist schooling.

i was renting a room in York Pennsylvania from a guy who had moved back to the area after having lived on the west coast and getting involved with a Russian chick. his primary line of work was working with her to pipeline Russian children into the US for adoption. we spoke often.

he despised his parents and considered both they and York generally to be hopelessly ignorant and backward.


this was the same guy who called the FBI and told them to be on the look out for cars loading into semi rigs during the Beltway Sniper attacks.

*facedesk*

also, York has a freaky deaky swinger community going. so it's not exactly like there weren't "sophisticated" people around for him to, ahem, hook up with.

Blogger bob k. mando July 30, 2016 10:14 PM  

42. dh July 30, 2016 10:05 PM
Back before the invasion started, you could have a really nice middle class life with a man doing hard, but menial, work and living thriftily. Now the wife must work, and the standard of living has declined as well. Double the work (or triple, or more) for less quality of life.



you know what the single most disturbing aspect of the Dred Scott case is?

that a man who had spent his ENTIRE LIFE as a slave, most of it being rented out to 3rd parties, had made so much extra profit ( over and above that raked off by his owner and rentiers ) that he had put back enough money to make a fair market offer to purchase himself, his wife and his children. simultaneously.

while keeping himself in a 'middle class' house hold.

THAT is how much prosperity is being raked off of the American economy by the Bankstas.

Anonymous Type 5 July 30, 2016 10:15 PM  

"I've met absolutely (damned near rabid with it) naturalized immigrants while in the military."

I don't doubt that they were enthusiastic, but how were they on "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"?

Blogger Lazarus July 30, 2016 10:19 PM  

Meanwhile, this proud assimilator apparently doesn't understand his own (((heritage))) well enough to know that Judaism is matrilineal.

And the Ishmaelites are patrilineal( in order to claim heritage from Abraham, and not Hagar the Egyptian), which is why they like rape.

Makin' more muzzies for Allah!

Anonymous SciVo July 30, 2016 10:21 PM  

Al From Bay Shore wrote:Popular Black culture sacrificed self sufficiency for integration and progressive politics. In so doing, they/ we embarked on a path that encouraged the demise of the Black community's infrastructure and the Black family.

I assume it made sense to them at the time; but without self-sufficiency, you're negotiating from a position of weakness, and any aid will come with enough strings for a marionette. Just look at the Venezuelans, who voted for socialism, and are now literally serfs.

Blogger YIH July 30, 2016 10:22 PM  

Speaking of cuckservatism, the car wreck on the side of the interstate, err, internet, The American Cuckservative is making sure to burnish his ''Trump is literally Hitler'' credentials:
I didn’t see Khizr Khan’s speech at the Democratic National Convention this week, but I heard it was powerful. Khan, a Muslim and Pakistani immigrant to the US, lost his son, US Army Capt. Humayun Khan, in a 2004 roadside bombing in Iraq. After hearing today on the radio that Trump had criticized Khan and his wife Ghazala, who stood by his side as he delivered the scathing anti-Trump address, I watched the Khan speech. [YouTube embed]
Indeed, it is a very powerful speech. This, from the transcript, is its highlight:
He vows to build walls, and ban us from this country. Donald Trump, you’re asking Americans to trust you with their future.

Let me ask you: have you even read the United States constitution? I will gladly lend you my copy. [he pulls it out] In this document, look for the words ‘liberty’ and ‘equal protection of law’.

Have you ever been to Arlington Cemetery? Go look at the graves of brave patriots who died defending the United States of America.

You will see all faiths, genders and ethnicities. You have sacrificed nothing and no one.

{snip}
The man is contemptible. For the record, he never served in Vietnam, having received a student deferment to complete his Ivy League business degree, and later a medical deferment, supposedly over bone spurs in his feet. He lied to the press about his deferment status. This became an issue after he criticized John McCain as a loser for being captured and tortured by the North Vietnamese. I had forgotten about Trump’s trashing McCain’s service. I am very glad McCain, a hawkish hothead, did not become president, but Trump’s making fun of him as a POW and torture victim is, well, contemptible.

It’s not even August. Can you imagine what else is going to come out of Trump’s mouth before November? It would have been so very easy to have compassionately deflected Khizr Khan’s criticism. But that’s not how Donald Trump rolls. He sure is making it easy for people who fear or loathe Hillary Clinton to withhold their votes from him.

IOW, Team Lizard Queen dug around and found the Paki parents of a moslim that died in the Iraq fiasco - of course.
It was standard IKAGO agitprop, and ol' cucky swallowed it hook, line and sinker...
And gave him another reason to bash Trump.
BTW, for that guy who said ''but he doesn't live in Baton Rouge'' he does now.
Hope reality doesn't bite him in the butt, but considering how things have been going there lately...

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 30, 2016 10:24 PM  

What if popehat virtue signaled and no one gave a fuck?

As for the Jewish genius how does he handle the important subject of white guilt?

Blogger Pseudotsuga July 30, 2016 10:31 PM  

paradox wrote:My direct ancestor fought in the Civil War in a Northern regiment from the upper Midwest. When did they become "American?"
They never became American. They picked up muskets and attacked America like good foreigners.


ZING! That's a good one...but you seem to have overlooked the rest of my post.
I never claimed ol' Civil War Vet ancestor was an American. He was an immigrant farmer who for some reason decided to join the Union Army. I agree that he wasn't an American. I agree that his children (born on US soil) weren't really American yet. I argue that my grandfather (born just after the turn of the 20th century) was the first American on that side of the family.
The Scottish side of my family (1700s) would be a similar case--1st generation, no (they were colonists), but later on, yes.
The German sides (fleeing 1600s religious persecution of Protestants into Eastern Pennsylvania) are an interesting problem-- how long before they dropped their "German" thinking and assimilated into Americans?

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents July 30, 2016 10:51 PM  

The German sides (fleeing 1600s religious persecution of Protestants into Eastern Pennsylvania) are an interesting problem-- how long before they dropped their "German" thinking and assimilated into Americans?



Did any of them ever accept "better 10 guilty go free than 1 innocent be imprisoned"?

How about keeping and bearing arms?

The rights of Englishmen are the fundamental planks of the American nation. Not everyone can get that.

Next time I'm in Northern Virginia, I think I'll find some outdoor restaurant or bar and amuse myself by pointing to the Washington Monument and asking "What's that? What's it mean?" of all the citizens around me. Should be entertaining.

Blogger Mack Schuylkill July 30, 2016 11:00 PM  

It goes deeper. I was listening to the Darwin Digest on TRS radio, a well-researched episode about epigenetics. Environmental factors can even influence the expression of genes to the 10th generation. Totally sobering. Anyway, that same bible passage came to mind at the time. Reference: https://radio.therightstuff.biz/2016/07/24/darwin-digest-episode-21-epigenetics/

Blogger Mack Schuylkill July 30, 2016 11:01 PM  

It goes deeper. I was listening to the Darwin Digest on TRS radio, a well-researched episode about epigenetics. Environmental factors can even influence the expression of genes to the 10th generation. Totally sobering. Anyway, that same bible passage came to mind at the time. Reference: https://radio.therightstuff.biz/2016/07/24/darwin-digest-episode-21-epigenetics/

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr July 30, 2016 11:11 PM  

The interesting question comes when an immigrant marries a native citizen. I think the three generation rule would not apply, at east not fully.

Anonymous Godfrey July 30, 2016 11:17 PM  

Israel has a wall.

Israel has an immigration policy.

Israel hasn't taken any refugees.

Anonymous Wyrd July 30, 2016 11:30 PM  

And now your kids are no longer Jewish. You're self-holocausting; you're almost Hitler.

REEEEEEE!!!

Blogger Johnny July 30, 2016 11:49 PM  

Judaism is matrilineal? It sure isn't matrilineal in the Bible.

Blogger Robert Divinity July 30, 2016 11:52 PM  

The name sounded familiar, searched, he's a criminal defense lawyer

If Popehat is a defense attorney, that would mean his "clients who are the most modestly, convincingly, and devotedly patriotic" are criminals. Am I missing something there?

Blogger M Cephas July 31, 2016 12:10 AM  

In these Twitter exchanges, I think Vox Day's points sometimes aren't even difficul to counter. I could be wrong on that, but the other side just seems incapable of defending themselves.

Anonymous JAG July 31, 2016 12:11 AM  

Supreme Dark Lord ‏@voxday
And now your kids are no longer Jewish. You're self-holocausting; you're almost Hitler.


This was the rhetorical equivalent of dropping down in to the splits van Damme style, and then uppercutting the nut sack. That guy won't be back for more.

Blogger Robert Divinity July 31, 2016 12:21 AM  

the other side just seems incapable of defending themselves

The communists and cucks live in an echo chamber and do not engage in introspection. This homogenous, agreeable opinion environment has caused them to lose the ability to argue effectively. Anyone who can employ the Socratic method and lure them into a dialectical exchange can win. With an exception here and there they simply are incapable of argument at this point. Political correctness has been an effective SJW tool but it has been a double-edged sword because it has destroyed their ability to engage opponents successfully.

Blogger Michael Kingswood July 31, 2016 12:32 AM  

@10 "Thinking of other immigrants I know, your 3rd generation is probably accurate for most"

That checks with my experience. My Dad's grandparents came over from Poland (Mom's side's been here since 17-something or other, all British/Scottish types). Growing up and visiting grandmama and grandpapa it was a whole lot of Polish. The grandparents on the other side...a whole lot of American midwest. And they lived only a few hours away from each other. Even Dad used to (still does sometimes) go on about this guy's Polish and isn't that cool, or isn't it cool that Polish people did X. He got heavily involved in the Polish American Congress, things like that. Even as a kid, I would smile and nod but think to myself, "I don't care. I'm American, not Polish."

I would not begin to even think about in any way questioning my Dad's love of this country or his patriotism. Nor would I say he's not American. But he did (maybe still does but it's less now I think) focus in on his Polish lineage a lot. Nothing wrong with that, but it is telling the difference between how much it matters to him (2nd Generation) and how not a big deal at all it is to me, to the extent that I never think about it except when I have to explain how to spell or pronounce my surname (Kingswood is a pen name).

Part of that is I'm extremely non-sentimental. But even considering that, while my sister enjoys our Polish heritage more than I do, she doesn't go nearly as deep into it as Dad did.

Probably another part is we didn't live in the heavily-Polish town that grandmama and grandpapa lived. Shortly after I was born, Mom and Dad moved halfway across the country to DC. That cutting off of ties probably worked its own bit of magic, for lack of a better word.

Long story short (too late) I concur that it takes a while for immigrants to truly replace the old Homeland with the new.

Anonymous Hagbard Celine July 31, 2016 12:54 AM  

"When I think about it, my clients who are the most modestly, convincingly, and devotedly patriotic are immigrants. Hearts on their sleeves."

I wonder how patriotic they would be if you told them all of their family's government benefits had been cut off.

Blogger Leo Little Book in Shenzhen July 31, 2016 1:36 AM  

Judaism is matrilineal? It sure isn't matrilineal in the Bible.

Then Joseph must be the father of David's eternal heir.

I doubt you could find a more American American than me. It's all I know.

Ignorance is the key qualification.

Since the original English stock have permitted themselves to be diluted out of their inheritance by a mixed multitude, I suppose the definition of a neo-imperial Yankee is that one must be at least as American as the Trump family. Cenk Uygur go home.

Since the American myths I was fed with my mother's milk were lies, I prefer to think of myself as a Texan. The Alamo is a reminder in the heart of the wanderer that one needn't hold home long to die a free man.

Blogger world entertainment July 31, 2016 2:00 AM  

Die hard Trump haters wouldn't sit through an hour speech at all. And let me tell you people, if I hear another woman say, "I won't vote for Trump! He comes off like such a jerk!" So help me, the next time I hear it, and I don't care if a nun just said it, I'm saying,
http://hillaryclintons.blogspot.com/

Anonymous SonsOfOdin July 31, 2016 2:28 AM  

(((Jesus Christ)))!

Anonymous Eric the Red July 31, 2016 2:36 AM  

What made this country unique? It was founded on traditions of independence, self-reliance, and limited government. That was light-years different from other governments then or since. Anyone who offers revisionist history, anyone who thinks equality and mass migration trump those founding principles is not an American. For the preponderance of tribes, the ones most likely to feel those ideas deep in their bones are those with English ancestry. Genetic or otherwise, anyone else who is unable to adapt to those traditions doesn't belong here.

Blogger Pseudotsuga July 31, 2016 2:52 AM  

How can we undo what Schoolhouse taught us as children in the 70s?
The Great American Melting Pot

Blogger weka July 31, 2016 3:00 AM  

My Scandinavian ancestors came over from the old country in the 1850s. My direct ancestor fought in the Civil War in a Northern regiment from the upper Midwest. When did they become "American?" I suspect that it wasn't that generation, or that man's sons, but the next (my grandfather) whose cultural outlook was actually fully American.

All ties to the old country and old country culture had melted away by then. Thinking of other immigrants I know, your 3rd generation is probably accurate for most, Vox. Some may be able to become American sooner, like at least the 2nd generation. But I think that's a rare person.

Since I'm not American I will ignore the constitution. I'm fifth generation NZ. My grandparents talked about England being the "home country". My parents don't. I don't: to me England is an odd damp country with the wrong trees and the light is too soft. Like Tori, I need to bring my own sun when I go there.

https://youtu.be/WEStUwZE9Q8

Three generations sounds about right with minimal cultural resistance from the host nation: we beat the living crap out of the Maori and took their land (as Victorians, my ancestors were more efficient than the Cromwellian English who settled in the thirteen colonies).

Blogger Shimshon July 31, 2016 3:02 AM  

@56 Jewishness is indeed matrilineal. Try the original Hebrew (and Aramaic in a few places) along with commentaries. Rashi is very good. Especially as he focuses on grammatical nuances that are lost in translation.

Anonymous Moonbear July 31, 2016 3:21 AM  

@68 Weka

If you are camouflaged it helps, the genetic makeup of NZ and England is awfully close to each other (the same), you therefore did not integrate or assimilate into a different culture since they are virtually the same, just on different landmasses.
If you moved to China I suspect it would take longer for your offspring to become Chinese.

Blogger SirHamster July 31, 2016 3:31 AM  

Sad to say that the spam post "world entertainment" got me. Made enough pseudo sense that I wondered if the link would shed light. Nope, pure noise.

Anonymous Moonbear July 31, 2016 3:35 AM  

@17 rick
I'm 3rd generation Portuguese/Spanish (about which I could not care less).

You just said you identify as protugese/spanish.
Therefore not American, and if you care or not does not matter because your subconsciousness does.
Being American means absolutely nothing unless you are native, as being a subject of an empire has no real identity beyond being a subject.
Because they have no other identity I find most people living in the USA as incredibly obsessed about where their heritage is from.

Blogger Leo Little Book in Shenzhen July 31, 2016 4:38 AM  

(((Jesus Christ!)))

I suppose that makes the inhabitants of Detroit white.

Blogger weka July 31, 2016 6:12 AM  

@70. Minimal cultural resistance is England to Australia or NZ.
Some cultural resistance is England or Australia to Canada or the USA.
Moderate cultural resistance is Quebecios to France or Afrikaaners to Holland.
Significant is Overseas Chinese, particularly if mixed ethnicity to China.
Severe is anyone but Japanese (with no Nisei) to Japan.
Extreme is anyone but Koreans to Korea.

I think it is three generations with minimal cultural resistance. And I don't think the USA is exempt.

Blogger American Spartan July 31, 2016 6:35 AM  

Pseudotsuga wrote:How can we undo what Schoolhouse taught us as children in the 70s?

The Great American Melting Pot



Music & lyrics by (((((Lynn Ahrens))))). Vocals by Lori (((((Lieberman))), what a coincidence, uh?

Blogger Rick July 31, 2016 8:04 AM  

Moonbear,
You put words in my mouth. I do not identify as that. I said where my ancestors were from so that the crew here could define what they mean by American if I don't qualify. Incidentally, I'm not asking if I'm American. I am. I'd like to find out what VD means.
Saying "native" adds no clarity.

Blogger Harsh July 31, 2016 8:35 AM  

Rick wrote:VD, you throw me with the 3rd generation part. I'm 3rd generation Portuguese/Spanish (about which I could not care less). I doubt you could find a more American American than me. It's all I know.

I don't qualify? I'm confused.

If you're in bed, maybe someone else can help me out.


To some you're not only not American, you're hardly house-broken.

Anonymous Bobby Farr July 31, 2016 8:43 AM  

It is odd how even here many people seem to think their ethnicity is a matter of chosen identification or trying really really hard. Or perhaps they are simply self-serving foreigners defining Americans out of existence so they can belong.

Politically, I think it confirms that those who want immigration restrictions imposed on the grounds of promoting ethnic identity are wrong or at least premature. Trump has outlined how you can get to zero immigration and large scale deportations using arguments for national security and economic nationalism. If the country becomes sufficiently re-nativized, then it would be possible to adopt explicitly nativistic arguments and policies. Nationalists need to follow the highly successful liberal playbook for demographic revolution (the 1965 Act won't change the ethnic makeup of the USA→changes will be minor→change is good→ change is inevitable→you are excommunicated as a racist if you resist change→foreign horde controls electorate) becomes (immigration freeze and mass deportations are needed for security reasons and to support higher wages→benefits cut off for legal immigrants on economic grounds→explicitly pro-ethnic homogenity policies enacted→culture becomes openly pro-native, foreigners can no longer win elections, open borders advocates demonized→natives control electorate)

Anonymous #8601 July 31, 2016 9:15 AM  

The only way for future generations to become American is to mix in some English DNA somehow.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 31, 2016 9:19 AM  

Well it is becoming plainer, whites do have racial leadership, self elected jews who then become our moral guides, yeah.

Anonymous Henry Briggs July 31, 2016 9:36 AM  

"DNA drives culture. It's not the only ingredient, but it's the foundational one."

Both my mother and father were of English and Scottish Stock. My last name is actually that of the town that my father's people left to come to America in 1825. All my family was of midwestern stock and farmers up until my father went to college, flew p47s in WWII, then moved to CA to run his Father in law's business in the 60s. Both sides of my family have numerous folks in it who fought and died in the civil war (a couple on the Southern side)

Both my parents were Reagan Republicans. I grew up very middle of the road politically. And very WASPY.

I married a 2nd generation Jewess who's grandparents escaped occupied France and eventually settle in the NW then Texas. My wife is a proud Texas Jew (Large community of Jews in Texas)

We have one child, a boy. Blond hair, blue eyes. Inquisitive. VERY smart kid.

What I didn't say above is that I was adopted at birth. Recently I took a 23andMe DNA test. Turns out I'm 50%+ Ashkenazi Jew. (Made my wife's family happy to hear).

Yet, I'm as WASPY American as can be.

There's something about Magic Dirt when it comes to who is American and who is not.

Anonymous Type 5 July 31, 2016 9:42 AM  

"Incidentally, I'm not asking if I'm American. I am. I'd like to find out what VD means. Saying "native" adds no clarity."

By his definition, you're not. But it's not a "You don't get to be in the club. Loser!" sort of thing. America as a nation, as opposed to a state, is the posterity of the inhabitants at the time of the founding. If you're not a descendant of an American colonist, you're not part of the American nation.

The contention is that, as that posterity is no longer a coherent nor hegemonic group, there is no longer a viable American nation. And it ain't coming back. Our society has become post-constitutional because it is no longer the nation the Constitutional was designed for.

It's a narrow definition in order to provide specific insights and perspective. Others here are talking about America and Americans with different purposes in mind.

Blogger Rick July 31, 2016 9:54 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Rick July 31, 2016 9:54 AM  

Thank you, Type 5. That is satisfactory

Anonymous Henry Briggs July 31, 2016 9:57 AM  

"f you're not a descendant of an American colonist, you're not part of the American nation.

The contention is that, as that posterity is no longer a coherent nor hegemonic group, there is no longer a viable American nation. And it ain't coming back. Our society has become post-constitutional because it is no longer the nation the Constitutional was designed for."

It's a contrived definition meant to support a very specific, but not necessarily viable or supported ideology.

Further, it ought to be said that the founders built a constitution that makes no mention of this ideology, but rather provides a framework that accommodates nicely changes in national circumstances.

Anonymous Avalanche July 31, 2016 10:15 AM  

@27 "Most folks are too busy or, like you said, bewildered."

Risk communication expert Peter Sandman points out that many folks -- from fear or a sense of "what can *I* do about it?!" -- tip over from looking at and preparing for a potential danger, to denial: "it will never happen to me." The sense of "*I* cannot make any difference" (and clearly the obamination and holder and lynch and comey and all their ilk have made it clear that WE have no effect whatsoever on the (supposed) rule of law).

Anonymous andon July 31, 2016 10:17 AM  

81. Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 31, 2016 9:19 AM
Well it is becoming plainer, whites do have racial leadership, self elected jews who then become our moral guides, yeah.


yes, jews who decry WHITE PRIVILEGE!! WHITE PRIVILEGE!!

I don't make up an absurdly large part of the 1%, LOOK OVER THERE!!

Blogger James July 31, 2016 10:34 AM  

You should have told the guy he was LITERALLY Hitler, like SJW's do.

Anonymous BGKB July 31, 2016 11:21 AM  

hey pal, I'm a Jew immigrant l who had two kids with a white Christian from the south. #ImGenocidingYou

I can fully understand why jew guys don't want to be around jew girls.

yes, jews who decry WHITE PRIVILEGE!! WHITE PRIVILEGE!!

WHITE PRIVILEGE!! is everything that was said about jews the 200+ times they were kicked out of nations and the 1 time they were kept from leaving.

When I think about it, my clients who are the most modestly, convincingly, and devotedly patriotic are immigrants

The 3 Puerto Rican guys in Ohio who kept white girls locked in their basement patriotically flew PR flags.

If a Mexican raped Popehat, is Popehat's ass Mexican?

For the first part I don't think Popehat would say NO, he would be saving money & not have to goto home depot.

The third generation reacts to the 2nd, and assimilation becomes more broad.

If they get told the equality lie, it doesn't matter if their grandfather had to learn how to use a toilet/outhouse.

liberty, firearms, fuck you, the need for free speech, the desire to be left alone, get off my lawn, etc. I feel them in my bones.

Just as La-a(LA dash a) feels in her bones that someone has to pay for her free food because she evolved for conditions where a mom would have no problem finding food for all the children that survived diseases without a mans help.

Blogger Robert Divinity July 31, 2016 11:21 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Robert Divinity July 31, 2016 11:24 AM  

There's something about Magic Dirt when it comes to who is American and who is not

Not really. You were reared culturally American and referenced your Jewish roots numerous times in that comment.

Anonymous Henry Briggs July 31, 2016 11:34 AM  

"Not really. You were reared culturally American and referenced your Jewish roots numerous times in that comment."

How so, Robert?

Anonymous Anonymous July 31, 2016 12:01 PM  

"It's not about hearts, but genetics and culture."

Precisely, it's all genetics.
We must preserve and foster the Master race of genetic superiority...

What? this is the 4th Reich headquarters, right? No?
Sorry. You can see how I'd be confused.
They're racist idiots who believe in group identity and no individuality.
You're racist idiots who believe in group identity and no individuality.

This probably happens to you a lot.

Blogger residentMoron July 31, 2016 12:18 PM  

After the death of Christ and the destruction of Jerusalem, the Jews were scattered all over the Roman Empire, as per all the curses of which Moses had written long before.

But Moses also wrote that jewishness was patrilineal. So why and how was it changed to the present matrilineal system?

One of the regular consequences of that scattering abroad was rape. And as a practical matter it was no longer possible for the rabbis to have any high degree of confidence as to who was the father. Rather than let the race die - which according to mosaic standards it did long ago - the ever pragmatic rabbis decided that matrilineal descent was the only workable solution.

Which makes that exchange above triply ironic, don't it?

Blogger Roger G2 July 31, 2016 12:42 PM  

Helpful hint: no one says "almost Hitler" anymore. Nowadays, everyone-and everything-is "literally Hitler."
You're welcome.

Blogger Robert Divinity July 31, 2016 12:46 PM  

How so, Robert?

You are quite fixated on your Jewish heritage. There were four references to it in the comment.

Blogger TarjaJu July 31, 2016 1:17 PM  

TY Vox for regularly sharing examples of rhetoric. It's quite a learning curve for me to understand the ramifications and the dynamics of it. I see what you mean, still I am unable to effectively use it. I can more easily spot it during touchy subjects though, so I don't get riled up as easily now by this type of speech.

As a side note: Brave browser works quite well so far. Good user experience on my end.

Anonymous Henry Briggs July 31, 2016 1:37 PM  

"You are quite fixated on your Jewish heritage. There were four references to it in the comment."

I count one, but that's beside the point given my many more numerous references to my Anglo heritage in disputing Vox Popoli's point about magic dirt.

Blogger Robert Divinity July 31, 2016 1:54 PM  

I count one, but that's beside the point given my many more numerous references to my Anglo heritage in disputing Vox Popoli's point about magic dirt.

It's not beside the point. One reference was made directly to your own Jewish heritage, and three others to your Jewish wife and Judaism to be precise. You discovered tribal roots and it is quite important to you, obviously, even if you did mention the Anglo heritage.

You disputed Vox Day's "Magic Dirt" theory and reinforced it. You never will debunk MD because it is absolutely true even if you are an aberrational exception, which doesn't seem the case.

Anonymous FP July 31, 2016 1:54 PM  

"(((Popehat))) ‏@Popehat
When I think about it, my clients who are the most modestly, convincingly, and devotedly patriotic are immigrants. Hearts on their sleeves."

Sure Patrick. Sure. That is why they go to protests waving Mexican flags. I saw them doing that in 2007 in Oregon's state capital for a worker's rights rally. American as apple pie.

Anonymous Harry Briggs July 31, 2016 2:06 PM  

Robert,

I take your point. However, despite my DNA, I'm far more American than Vox Popoli could ever be, and it's all a result of magic dirt.

Anonymous LastRedoubt July 31, 2016 2:09 PM  

I grudgingly came over time to accept Vox's statements about magic dirt. All I had to do was open my own eyes.

Despite a huge dose of Lithuanian cultural heritage growing up, my parents (came over as toddlers) and grandparents grounded me in the old view, a fervently assimilationist, pro-US one.

That said, one brother is fervently SJW, two other siblings thoroughly liberal, and most I know in the community unto at least the second generation are fervent democrat voters with socialist assumptions about things. SOME can be blamed on schooling, especially for the younger ones, but the number who just can't understand the evils of what their parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents ran from is simply staggering.

So - grudgingly - I've come to the conclusion while there may be exceptions who are rabidly "american", whether it is due to genetics or inculcated cultural inertia of values imprinted subconsciously in childhood, the values and assumptions of those who come here, even from other parts of europe, are not those of free englishmen.

I'm not exactly in a position to move back to my parents "home country" that even they don't remember as more than hazy memories of early childhood. I speak the language, somewhat, and have skills that will keep me in food, but I won't fit in. Unlike some family that are "we're moving if Trump wins" I want to stay and fight if Hillary wins. It's my home.

Like Vox in Italy, if we can turn this place around, I'd give up the right to vote if needed to stay.

Blogger rcocean July 31, 2016 2:20 PM  

The response to all of them has been the sound of crickets.

That's the hardest thing to understand about many liberals/leftists. They look like you, they sound like you, they talk about the constitution and the country, but they don't REALLY care. Its all about pushing their ideology. "just win baby" is their motto.

Blogger rcocean July 31, 2016 2:21 PM  

The response to all of them has been the sound of crickets.

That's the hardest thing to understand about many liberals/leftists. They look like you, they sound like you, they talk about the constitution and the country, but they don't REALLY care. Its all about pushing their ideology. "just win baby" is their motto.

Anonymous andon July 31, 2016 2:26 PM  

doesn't BlogSpot have some kind of a plugin that would eliminate duplicate comments?

what is this, 1995?

Blogger Robert Divinity July 31, 2016 2:52 PM  

Robert,

I take your point. However, despite my DNA, I'm far more American than Vox Popoli could ever be, and it's all a result of magic dirt.


Exactly how are you far more American than Vox ever could be as a result of Magic Dirt?

A related and more germane question would be if you had been raised in an Ashkenazi Jewish household would you have become culturally American?

Taken to its absurd extreme, a ninety-year-old Tibetan could arrive here and become a fully assimilated American. Your experience would be almost the mirror image of that yet you seem to have embraced tribalism when your heritage became known to you. I don't see how you have debunked the Magic Dirt theory but will check later to see why you think you have.

Anonymous Henry Briggs. July 31, 2016 3:11 PM  

Robert, all you know about me via a vis tribalism is what I've told you, which is that I took a DNA test. However, you also know that I WASP-associate. I embrace my family, their experience, as well as values that are recognized as wholly American. And All this despite the fact that I am Jewish based on My DNA.

And of course if I were raised in an Ashkenazi household I could have become fully American. We have seen such things happen over and over.

What I'd be curious to know is what values do you believe are those that would be considered fully "American"?

Anonymous BGKB July 31, 2016 3:27 PM  

fixated on your Jewish heritage. There were four references to it in the comment."..I count one

Is it possible you are jewing your jewish heritage? Does that make one more or less jewish?

if I were raised in an Ashkenazi household I could have become fully American. We have seen such things happen over

Can you name some that lived after Ayn Rand died?

Blogger Sheila4g July 31, 2016 3:34 PM  

@36 Stg58/Animal Mother: "I know what you're talking about. I feel those things, liberty, firearms, fuck you, the need for free speech, the desire to be left alone, get off my lawn, etc. I feel them in my bones."

I can second this, and looking back it explains a lot about how/why I was always the "black sheep" or the difficult one in the family. Even when I identified as a liberal, I held numerous oppositional positions - which my socialist English cousins pointed out to me during discussions. I still thought I was what I had been raised as, not what my gut believed.

However, based on genetics alone, I can never be American. My children cannot be either, although their immigrant heritage is far more mixed (and another generation distant as only their gg-grandparents were immigrants). Depending upon who they marry, I may be fortunate enough to have grandchildren with a legitimate claim to be American.

Despite what I identify as or hold close to my heart (the historic American nation and the rights of Englishmen), I cannot be other than what I am genetically. This is regardless of whether I treasure that genetic heritage (as commenter Henry Briggs appears to) or utterly reject it (as I do). And I am well aware that I'm an outlier; my siblings and cousins certainly don't hold dear what I do.

As Vox has said and I've paraphrased numerous times, genuine assimilation requires a similar genetic heritage, minimum 3 generations, an unapologetically strong host culture, and intermarriage. Those items are a mixed lot with regard to progeny of Ellis Islanders, and utterly lost regarding any post 1965 immigrant.

Ethnicity is a matter of genetics. Nationhood/peoplehood is the same writ-large. The type of genuine physiological/psychological/genetic change required for one's progeny to become other than what one was is a long and hard and uncommon process.

Blogger Robert Divinity July 31, 2016 3:35 PM  

And of course if I were raised in an Ashkenazi household I could have become fully American. We have seen such things happen over and over.

Not in the modern era. In fact, the Obama Administration has issued guidelines to discourage assimilation.

What I'd be curious to know is what values do you believe are those that would be considered fully "American"?

The scare quotes around "American" are telling. Self-reliance and adherence to the Rule of Law are two quickies that spring to mind as to what qualifies as this nationality. Third World immigrants do not come from those traditions and do not embrace them simply because they arrive here.

I will ask again. How have you disproved the criticism of "Magic Dirt?" By your DNA experience?

Anonymous andon July 31, 2016 3:39 PM  

Henry Briggs. July 31, 2016 3:11 PM

And of course if I were raised in an Ashkenazi household I could have become fully American. We have seen such things happen over and over.


we has?

Anonymous Full-Fledged Fiasco July 31, 2016 4:17 PM  

I love to see Popehat bitch-slapped like a dummy.

Blogger Sheila4g July 31, 2016 5:29 PM  

@82 Henry Briggs: " Recently I took a 23andMe DNA test. Turns out I'm 50%+ Ashkenazi Jew. (Made my wife's family happy to hear)."

If magic dirt and magic papers made you, your Jewish wife, and in-laws magically American, why would or should they be happy to hear of your unchangeable genetic ethnicity?

Anonymous Harry Briggs July 31, 2016 5:36 PM  

"Self-reliance and adherence to the Rule of Law are two quickies that spring to mind as to what qualifies as this nationality. "

So what we are looking for are examples of non Anglo immigrants and their descendants that have embraced the rule of law and are self reliant. That's a pretty low bar. My wife's family is a perfect example. But of course their are millions of examples dating back to the 18th century.

The magic dirt theory appears to be a simple one. Exposure to the American culture leaves is decidedly more American than when we or our original immigrant ancestors. It leaves the descendants of the original ancestors often equally American as the Anglo ansceatots of the pilgrimage and founding generations.

Those who deny the magic dirt theory have the burden of explaining why their are so many obvious magic dirt citizens.

Anonymous andon July 31, 2016 5:38 PM  

we need to have an honest discussion about JEW PRIVILEGE

Anonymous Harry Briggs July 31, 2016 5:41 PM  

"If magic dirt and magic papers made you, your Jewish wife, and in-laws magically American, why would or should they be happy to hear of your unchangeable genetic ethnicity?"

For the same reason that most Anglo and non Anglo groups like to see coupling among their own. That this is true in no way prevents on from embracing the American characteristics Robert outlined.

Is the Anglo American who marries the Italian no longer American?

Anonymous LastRedoubt July 31, 2016 6:02 PM  

Harry Briggs

Those who deny the magic dirt theory have the burden of explaining why their are so many obvious magic dirt citizens.

No, because there aren't.

Yes, there are exceptions. It's easy to believe - if you are one of them, like I'd hope I am - that we're more common. Unfortunately, as I noted above, personal experience "trumps" that. In a group of people who have every reason to viscerally hate the evil their parents ran from, and love the country they're in, they will gladly revert to their cultural mean for the kind of government they'd like, ignore the evils of socialism, and move back in a heartbeat if financially viable (or if Trump gets elected, I've heard).

And it's not just anecdote. Voting and behavior patterns of immigrants, even non-english european ones, follow notably different averages for at least several generations.

Anonymous LastRedoubt July 31, 2016 6:06 PM  

And the number of second-generation types - some in my family, one who is otherwise "conservative" if no-Trump - I know who'd move back to their parents home country if they didn't see Russia as a threat to stability....

Well, they were BORN here and don't truly consider it their homeland.

Anonymous Roginald July 31, 2016 6:11 PM  

Going off to college and being taught to hate your family, friends, and ancestors is not limited to "ethnic" Americans. Some of the most self loathing people I know are upper middle class college educated WASPs. We no longer learn from our elders, we are brainwashed by devotees of the Frankfurt School.

Anonymous andon July 31, 2016 6:15 PM  

is magic dirt working in Detroit, or East St. Louis, or southern california?

Blogger Robert Divinity July 31, 2016 6:30 PM  

Those who deny the magic dirt theory have the burden of explaining why their are so many obvious magic dirt citizens.

No, they don't bear the burden. It's such a ludicrous and extraordinary claim the burden is on anyone who believes it. There are exceptions and they are rare. In fact, as immigrant communities have self-segregated and been encouraged not to assimilate--sometimes as federal policy, the exceptions have become even more rare. Most Mexican illegals (80 percent, from memory) don't even intend to stay after they acquire enough money to return home as one example. They have been exposed to "America" and have absolutely no desire to become American.

"Magic Dirt" is absurd on its face.

Blogger Dave July 31, 2016 6:42 PM  

@Henry/Harry

Would you say your family owns more or less guns than the average in Texas? What's your favorite firearm? What do you recommend for concealed carry?

Anonymous Henry Briggs July 31, 2016 6:43 PM  

But Robert, how do you explain all the non Anglo immigrants and sons of immigrants who have clearly assimilated perfectly? The Italians and Germans and Russians and Jews and Greeks, etc?

Anonymous Henry Briggs July 31, 2016 6:47 PM  

Dave, I know my Father in law keeps a hand gun in the house and my brother in law regularly hints, but I can't speak to averages. I shot .22s growing up and still posses it, but o don't hunt. You had some sort of point to make?

Anonymous Bobby Farr July 31, 2016 6:53 PM  

@123 The ignorance of American culture required to believe that any of these groups other than the Germans have assimilated to a significant extent refutes your own point (to the extent you have a point - a foreigner adopted at birth by Americans is not analogous to an immigrant).

Anonymous Henry Briggs July 31, 2016 6:59 PM  

Bobby, what indications can you point to that Italians, Russians, greek and Swedish immigrants and their descendants haven't assimilated?

Anonymous LastRedoubt July 31, 2016 7:05 PM  

Henry - my own eyes. My own family. Many in the extended ethnic community. Pictures of mexicans waving mexican flags. Russians I've known, unto the second generation. Trends in voting profiles.

You're arguing a strawman - we're not arguing that you can't become american - we're arguing that - with exceptions - in general it takes several generations, with more or (rarely) less time depending on the degree to which assimilation is encouraged.

You keep asking for evidence, but ignore it when given. You argue something no-one here has claimed. As such, you're an intellectually dishonest twat.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 31, 2016 7:06 PM  

Henry Briggs wrote:Yet, I'm as WASPY American as can be.

There's something about Magic Dirt when it comes to who is American and who is not.



No, you're not. You're a Jew who has learned to pass.
Spend some time pondering; why on earth did you marry a Jewess? WASP men, generally speaking, can't stand them.

My assumption would be that sexual attraction is probably the most heritable of traits. You are attracted to a Jewess because your genetic father was attracted to a Jewess.

Your comment about Magic Dirt actually is a begging of the question. You assume within the question that your cultural upbringing (WASP), is the only possible determinant to your cultural, and that therefore your non-WASP behavior (marrying a Jewess) is proof of something-or-other. But that behavior is EXACTLY what would be predicted by a partially-genetic understanding of culture. And your son, by genetics, by culture and by Jewish Law is a Jew, regardless of eye color, hair color or last name, exactly like Sammy Davis.

Blogger Robert Divinity July 31, 2016 7:09 PM  

But Robert, how do you explain all the non Anglo immigrants and sons of immigrants who have clearly assimilated perfectly? The Italians and Germans and Russians and Jews and Greeks, etc?

It took multiple generations to shake the previous cultures (if it even happened), governmental intervention, and was so difficult an absolute moratorium had to be slapped on all immigration. Many did not assimilate and returned home. I think there is a chart on a previous thread here about the rate of return by nationality.

It wasn't because there was something special about American dirt and society they eventually assimilated. The communists who run this rathole have made certain that mistake never will be repeated and have implemented policies to preserve separate cultures. The fact separate cultures can be maintained disproves Magic Dirt. Are the Amish culturally American two hundred-plus years? They aren't, and by their own choice. Again, the theory is ridiculous.

Anonymous Bobby Farr July 31, 2016 7:09 PM  

I didn't mention old stock Swedish immigrants, who have largely blended into the Northern European mix that is the white American ethnic group through intermarriage. In re to the others, you can look at education, income, religion, where they live, physical appearance, voting (and in regards to the last, it looks like the Swedes haven't even assimilated to the extent they settled in their own communities in the northern plains).

Anonymous Henry Briggs July 31, 2016 7:13 PM  

Last,
What I'm asking is what behavior do these descendents of Greek, Italian, Swedish or Russian immigrant display that demonstrate they don't assimilate and aren't equally Americzn as descendents of Anglo? What exactly have you observed?

Anonymous Bobby Farr July 31, 2016 7:13 PM  

@127 No, there aren't exceptions. You can't change your ethnicity through trying hard. Several generations would be a bare minimum for complete assimilation.

Blogger Dave July 31, 2016 7:16 PM  

First of all guns are never OT on this blog so thanks for answering my questions.

So defending your family or the 2nd Amendment does not seem to be a priority. Many here and in Texas particularly would call that downright un-American.

Anonymous Mr. Rational July 31, 2016 7:16 PM  

andon wrote:is magic dirt working in Detroit, or East St. Louis, or southern california?
Whitey took all the magic dirt when he left.  Must've been stuck to his shoes or something.

Anonymous Henry Briggs July 31, 2016 7:20 PM  

"No, you're not. You're a Jew who has learned to pass.
Spend some time pondering; why on earth did you marry a Jewess? WASP men, generally speaking, can't stand them."

I didn't "learn to pass" as a Wasp". I grew up a Wasp knowing nothing different. What I am is a WASPJ. Still, if Magic Dirt Theory isn't true, and if DNA should rule, why am I so perfectly WASPY? Shouldn't I be perfectly Jewy? But i'm not.

As for your theory of racial attraction, that doesn't explain my two ex WASP Wives.

As to the rest of your comment, you need to explain how any of it demonstrates I or my son is not as fully American as any one else.

Anonymous Henry Briggs July 31, 2016 7:24 PM  

Robert:
"It took multiple generations to shake the previous cultures (if it even happened)"

But it clearly has happened.

"The fact separate cultures can be maintained disproves Magic Dirt."

Most descendents of immigrant Swedes, Russian, Italians and Greeks don't "Maintain" the culture of their ancestors, they remember them. The only way to maintain it would be to speak the language as a primary language. See many Swedish Americans speaking Swedish to you?

Anonymous Henry Briggs July 31, 2016 7:26 PM  

"you can look at education, income, religion, where they live, physical appearance, voting"

What would I find, particularly among voting patterns of descendents of italians?

Blogger Sheila4g July 31, 2016 7:27 PM  

@116 Harry Briggs: "For the same reason that most Anglo and non Anglo groups like to see coupling among their own."

By your own words, they regard others of the same ethicity (Jewish) "their own." I.e, NOT AMERICAN. You cannot change your genetics. Study after study (if you are so inclined to desire "official" proof) has shown that adopted children, in both IQ and personality, are more like their birth parents than their adopted ones. Negroes adopted by Whites may take on some outward White cultural indicators, but their IQ and genetic nature remain unchanged. Look up the thousands of Koreans adopted by White Americans in the 1950s - who have both implicitly and explicitly renounced their "american" (no typo) identity and proclaimed their sense of Koreanness (except their Korean relatives don't accept them as such and they primarily hang around with other Korean adoptees from America). Your son's eye and hair coloring, while perhaps a bit atypical of Ashkenazi Jews, is hardly rare (see Gwyneth Paltrow, Bar Rafaeli, mischlings Scarlett Johansson, Paul Newman, etc.) and in no way speaks to a specifically American identity.

If your son was born in China, would he be Chinese? If a Zebra was born in a barn, would it become a horse?

You are arguing based on proven fallacies and utterly illogical and irrational theorems.

Blogger Robert Divinity July 31, 2016 7:29 PM  

Henry: if an Aghani and a Brit immigrate to the United States simultaneously, which one or their descendants will assimilate sooner? And if you answer that question honestly, why will the Brit assimilate more quickly? And if you answer that question honestly, doesn't it disprove "Magical Dirt?"

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 31, 2016 7:47 PM  

Henry Briggs wrote:I didn't "learn to pass" as a Wasp". I grew up a Wasp knowing nothing different. What I am is a WASPJ. Still, if Magic Dirt Theory isn't true, and if DNA should rule, why am I so perfectly WASPY? Shouldn't I be perfectly Jewy? But i'm not.


Because you're NOT so fucking WASPy.
It's a claim you make, unfalsifiably, because of course, none of us actually know you. You like to think you're a WASP, in fact your identity is dependent on it.

Anonymous Henry Briggs July 31, 2016 8:29 PM  

"Henry: if an Aghani and a Brit immigrate to the United States simultaneously, which one or their descendants will assimilate sooner? And if you answer that question honestly, why will the Brit assimilate more quickly? And if you answer that question honestly, doesn't it disprove "Magical Dirt?"

Indeed the Brit will assimilate more quickly for a number of reasons

But the Magic Dirt Theory says is in contrast to the idea that no immigrant or their descendant who is not an anglo can be an "America", at least this is what I've seen Vox Popoli posit.

Could the Afgani's grandson exhibit those traits you mentioned earlier as American? Of course they could and they surely do and have, just like the descendants of Italians, Swedes, Russians, Germans, Jews, etc.

I"m not arguing that immediate assimilation is always possible. That's stupid. With some, the "dirt" takes longer to get under your nails.

Anonymous Henry Briggs July 31, 2016 8:32 PM  

"Because you're NOT so fucking WASPy.
It's a claim you make, unfalsifiably, because of course, none of us actually know you. You like to think you're a WASP, in fact your identity is dependent on it."

Snidely, no one would confuse me with anything else. Not my friends, not my fellow churchgoers, not my parents, not my employees, no one. And yet, genetically, I'm more than half jewish.

The point should be clear, despite my DNA, I'm as American as anyone you know.

Anonymous Henry Briggs July 31, 2016 8:34 PM  

"By your own words, they regard others of the same ethicity (Jewish) "their own." I.e, NOT AMERICAN. You cannot change your genetics."

Yes, including Anglos. What does this have to do with whether or not they are or are not American?

Anonymous andon July 31, 2016 8:49 PM  

Henry Briggs July 31, 2016 8:32 PM

....The point should be clear, despite my DNA, I'm as American as anyone you know.


are you trying to convince yourself?

because the more you say it, the less I believe you

Blogger Robert Divinity July 31, 2016 8:52 PM  

@141:

If one ethnic group is slower to assimilate than another, it demonstrates the Magic Dirt theory to be false (as it is). At its core, the belief is ideas don't travel with immigrants and through osmosis they absorb the new culture, values and beliefs simply by being here. If that were true, there would be no difference between the Afghani and Englishman, obviously.

Anonymous Henry Briggs July 31, 2016 9:22 PM  

"If one ethnic group is slower to assimilate than another, it demonstrates the Magic Dirt theory to be false (as it is)."

No, it demonstrates that on some ethnic groups the dirt works slower and it might be two or three generations before thier descendants are as American as any Anglo. Now, if it were the case that some ethnic groups' descendants NEVER assimilated, then you'd be right.

Anonymous andon July 31, 2016 9:28 PM  

why did you choose "henry briggs" as a handle?

Anonymous Bobby Farr July 31, 2016 9:54 PM  

As WASPy as Ralph Lauren...

Blogger Robert Divinity July 31, 2016 10:01 PM  

Now, if it were the case that some ethnic groups' descendants NEVER assimilated, then you'd be right.

Arab and South Asian Muslims by and large never completely assimilate.

Anonymous LastRedoubt July 31, 2016 11:01 PM  

@Henry Briggs

But the Magic Dirt Theory says is in contrast to the idea that no immigrant or their descendant who is not an anglo can be an "America", at least this is what I've seen Vox Popoli posit.

Bullshit. Stop putting words in people's mouths.

Anonymous Henry Briggs July 31, 2016 11:37 PM  

"But the Magic Dirt Theory says is in contrast to the idea that no immigrant or their descendant who is not an anglo can be an "America", at least this is what I've seen Vox Popoli posit."


Bullshit. Stop putting words in people's mouths.

"One cannot no more become an American by virtue of one's thoughts or feelings about revolution or equality than one can become Australian, Canadian, or any other nation of English descent. That's why, unlike Irish-Americans, Swedish-Americans, and Italian-Americans, there are no hybrid "English-Americans". Like it or not, the fact is that they are the American nation and the posterity of the Constitution"
Vox Day

Then there is that.

Anonymous andon July 31, 2016 11:49 PM  

popeazzhat

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