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Friday, July 08, 2016

Mailvox: a police officer's perspective

A former police officer writes in response to my post on the Dallas police shootings:
The short:

Good article and overall I agree with it.

The long:

In regards to the “Us Vs Them” mentality; unfortunately, it was ingrained in us from the beginning at the academy and if you do not guard against it you will find yourself moving in that direction after a short time working as a police officer.

Tribe was ingrained in us from comments such as “there are two kinds of people, those in jail and those that should be.”  “In God we trust all others we run through NCIC”.  NCIC is the national records database.

As you started working something happened to me that I was not prepared for one of those unintended consequences, everybody lied to you.  And I mean everybody, about everything.  It did not take long where you fell into "my tribe" mode.  When you make the call that you need help and all your tribe show up – that is a powerful feeling and reinforces, good or bad, my tribe.

Military affectation.  True.  When I joined, Desert Storm had just ended and the DOD was giving away the store.

As far as these current rash of shootings caught on camera – people do not want to see the bad side.  I believe that most people think that when a shooting goes down it is “Hollywood”.  Good vs Evil – clean – sanitized.  One thing people do not understand is how fast events can turn.  And I have been in situations where things went from mild or this aint’ so bad to someone did or was going to die in milliseconds.  People can not even begin to understand the violence that can happen in situations.  This is not an excuse I just offer and explanation into the mindset.

And if I can use NAPALT.  I only recall one instance of behavior that was wrong coming from a police officer.  I had a prisoner in cuffs and this officer came up to the prisoner and threatened to “kick his ass”.  If this officer would have laid a hand on my prisoner I would have protected my prisoner.  It did not get that far. Then again, I was being interviewed for the county sheriff's department and was asked if I would take revenge on a person in cuffs if they had resisted arrest. I told her no, once cuffs are on and there is no resistance there is no reason. To this day I do not know if the look she gave me was one of disbelief or "this guy won't fit in with us because that is how we roll".

I agree with your statement “that being scared is insufficient justification for shooting a member of the public" and "start holding killer cops fully accountable for their actions”.  However, just because someone is unarmed does not mean they are not a danger.  In one situation I had a guy reach for a gun and as I was getting ready to shoot I saw he was reaching for a Maglite flashlight.  This guy’s intention was Suicide by Cop.  My intention was to save my life and my partner’s life. Unfortunately, my partner was shot and killed 6 months later.  He stopped an unarmed man, the man started fighting with him, took his gun, and killed him with it.

People see these videos and project their feelings, fears, biases into them.  Once the evidence starts to come out the story we end up with is usually different from what we began with.
As I mentioned in my response to him, my opinion is largely informed by my personal acquaintance with police officers in several countries. I get along quite well with cops, in fact, at a recent get-together I was the only male non-cop there. I've had cops for sparring partners and weightlifting partners and friends.

But that doesn't make me blind to the institutional and structural problems with the police in America. Nor does it mean that the lessons of 4GW which Mr.  Lind and LtCol Thiele teach in 4GW Handbook don't apply to them. Ironically, one of those lessons is that an occupying military should behave more like traditional street cops, while what we're seeing is the traditional street cops being trained to behave more like an occupying military.

Policing is a serious and important societal role and it ought to be treated as such. Police officers should be valued and respected, but they, in turn, must always behave in a respectable manner. They should never be deemed above the law or unaccountable, to the contrary, they should be held more accountable for their actions than the average untrained individual.

And no free man should ever descend to licking a boot or a badge.

And if you want to know what a badge-licker looks like, this is it:
John Sanders ‏@Platniumblum
@voxday outed himself as a closeted SJW. Blacks have no agency, no responsibility. The cops had it coming. #Dallas #disavowBLM
So virtuous! I expect he's preening in anticipation of all the likes and retweets from noble police officers ever so grateful for his support.

Labels: ,

131 Comments:

Blogger Noah B July 08, 2016 9:13 AM  

Guys like that are who we need to be cops.

Anonymous Broken Arrow July 08, 2016 9:22 AM  

I see some Ilk and then that guy tweeting going after Vox for not sufficiently backing the police, or even for simply stating the truth about the situation.

This is exactly what 4GW does best, which is turn society against itself, and even allies against each other. Going after the police is one of the most effective methods of 4GW, because even if the police have a lot of problems most members of society don't like seeing them hurt. Why? Because police are an important part of civil order for better or worse. Destroying the police, even bad police, destroys the civil order.

Take a minute to think about who you are angry at, is it Vox for saying American police have structural problems, or the fact that another brick in the wall of civil order in the USA has just been removed?

Anonymous Dan Gruff July 08, 2016 9:22 AM  

Vox,

How does 4GW deal with supra-state entities that foster state activity (militarization of police) and non-state forces (anti-west civilizational movements)?

I've always wondered if game theory is applicable when the participants are being played.

Blogger Samuel Nock July 08, 2016 9:23 AM  

"At the core of 4GW Is a crisis of legitimacy of the state." -- Lind

http://www.dnipogo.org/lind/lind_1_10_06.htm

Blogger Alexandros July 08, 2016 9:24 AM  

A friend called a police officer over to report an attempted burglary shortly after the event occurred; the officer was apparently visibly twitching and on edge as if my friend called him over to execute him.

This will get worse before it gets better; the only change we will see in the short term is how they will double-down on the us versus them mentality.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 08, 2016 9:30 AM  

A petition going around FR has it that BLM be designated a terrorist org. I assume the Left will start circulating petitions to have everyone to right of Paul Ryan be designated terrorists.

unCivil war looks to be in the future and all against the State as it blunders about, especially if the coalition of the fringes keeps the throne and not DJT.

Then add the foreign powers rushing in from Mexico to China and help from the Russians as they seek to destabilize their adversaries.

Buy ammo bitches

Anonymous Elijah Rhodes July 08, 2016 9:33 AM  

And when, as a matter of policy, you reject recruits with an IQ that exceeds 104, then what you're left with is not only us-vs-them, but an us that isn't terribly smart.

Anonymous WinstonWebb July 08, 2016 9:34 AM  

Another cause of uber-violent cops.

Anonymous Ultra July 08, 2016 9:36 AM  

"And if you want to know what a badge-licker looks like, this is it:

John Sanders ‏@Platniumblum
@voxday outed himself as a closeted SJW. Blacks have no agency, no responsibility. The cops had it coming. #Dallas #disavowBLM"

Colonel Sanders, Badge Bunny. He absolutely loves rough, tough men with handcuffs and wearing uniforms.

Blogger Rooted in Him July 08, 2016 9:49 AM  

"As you started working something happened to me that I was not prepared for one of those unintended consequences, everybody lied to you. And I mean everybody, about everything."

I teach. I make no assumptions that I am being told the truth. And I try not to put students in the position of of lying to me. That is, I don't ask those type of questions. Sometimes I have to, but I try to avoid it.

Blogger residentMoron July 08, 2016 9:51 AM  

@9

And someone who thinks (if that's the applicable term) in false binaries.

Oh, you called out the Police for their structural issues? You *must* think blacks have no agency.

Fuck that guy.

Blogger endwatcher July 08, 2016 9:51 AM  

Sorry cops over black criminals. We do need reform of both the oversight of cops, and who we select as cops, but the earlier article was bad rhetoric.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 08, 2016 9:57 AM  

Trump split the difference pretty well this morning, better than the passive aggressive psychopath the SJW worship as the messiah

Blogger VD July 08, 2016 9:58 AM  

We do need reform of both the oversight of cops, and who we select as cops, but the earlier article was bad rhetoric.

No doubt. It wasn't rhetoric at all.

Anonymous Moonbear July 08, 2016 10:01 AM  

The few times I've been in the USA I've felt like the cops were an occupying force. You are 100% correct in that assessment.

In Norway the police did not even carry weapons up until recently as "diversity" has been increasing.
I predict it will only get worse to the point of being USA like in step with less social cohesion due to the loss of homogeneity.
No-go zones require occupying forces or becomes lawless.
Much of the USA is a no-go zone.

Blogger Josh July 08, 2016 10:02 AM  

Sorry cops over black criminals. We do need reform of both the oversight of cops, and who we select as cops, but the earlier article was bad rhetoric.

Over half the people killed by the police are white.

Blogger clk July 08, 2016 10:02 AM  

Its not just how they train, its how they hire .. right now if you are ex mil you get 20 extra points on you evaluation ... look at the cops now ... shaved heads, tats, steroid enhanced... this is far cry from the old town police constable from our youth...

Blogger Josh July 08, 2016 10:02 AM  

Much of the USA is a no-go zone.

That is factually incorrect.

Blogger Joe Doakes July 08, 2016 10:06 AM  

Other contributing factors:

A huge man automatically commands respect and obtains compliance without saying a word. It's a lizard-brain thing. A woman (or small man) does not, so those recruits are taught to lean into the suspect's personal space and speak loudly to gain command and compliance. Doesn't work on the very drunk, the fearless or people with nothing to lose; for them, that technique challenges and offends which escalates to violence. Drop political correctness, reinstate minimum height requirements.

Cops have too many non-lethal choices on the Batman belt. While the officer is mentally sorting through spray versus Taser versus baton, the situation already escalated to gun. Reduce the choices - verbal, nightstick or gun - and prohibit lawsuits based on speculation of what might have happened if only the officer had this gadget or that one.

The guy in Minnesota died because the officer's commands were confusing and contradictory, because law enforcement leadership spends all its time lobbying to disarm citizens rather than developing a Standard Pistol Protocol to be taught to every permit holder and police officer. At present, the standard training is "Tell the officer you have a permitted weapon and ask how the officer would like to handle it." That sounds good - puts the officer in control to reduce his tension - except it's just another way of saying "There are no hard and fast rules, we make them up as we go along, but if you fail to instantly comply, you die." Police have policies for uniforms, pursuit, even ordering paperclips, they should have one for "Encountering a lawfully armed citizen." Form a committee of cops and permitted carriers, have them work out the procedure, make every cop and permit holder role-play it at license renewal.

Minnesota Governor Dayton already announced that race played a part in the shooting, that the driver would not have been shot had he been White. Thanks for clearing that up. No point in bothering with an actual, you know, investigation. There's a lamppost, somebody grab a rope, let's get this show on the road. Or, Option B might be for politicians to STFU! Playing to the mob empowers the mob - do you truly want to set off a race riot? Because I can guarantee you that once the rioters have burned down the ghetto and start moving into the nice parts of town, they'll meet resistance from citizens armed with pheasant hunting shotguns and deer rifles - the rioters holding a side-ways nine won't stand a chance. When the bodies start piling up and the politicians wring their hands, those same armed citizens will be calmly cleaning their guns and saying "I don't care what you do to each other in your own neighborhood, but come up here to threaten me and mine and this is what you get."

Blogger Human Animal July 08, 2016 10:10 AM  

The trouble with trying to find civilization is you have to remember you don't necessarily know what it looks like. Like trying to reproduce an English manor with its gardens in Australia, the familiar beckons away from what is true and vital.

I can't quite put the citizen shootings and the cop shootings on the same page yet.

Blogger Sisyphean July 08, 2016 10:11 AM  

And it's important to remember that the kind of people cops meet on a day to day basis are not the best of humanity. Calls come in from broken people about broken people and it's not surprising to see one's mentality shift. Once you meet so many suspects day in and day out, soon enough, everyone's a suspect.

Blogger S1AL July 08, 2016 10:13 AM  

Anecdotally, police recruitment is struggling in an unprecedented way. The Colorado Springs PD saw something like a 90% drop in applications this year. I suspect that departments in midsize urban areas around the country are or soon will be facing the same situation.

It's not surprising, given that things are going bad in both directions (reputation and real threat).

And I find a bit of absurdity in the notion that "there are serious issues in department A in state B, so the officers in department C in state D had it coming." That's centralist cancer.

Blogger VD July 08, 2016 10:13 AM  

Knock it off, Jay Will. You increasingly sound like an agent provocateur.

Spare us your violent rhetoric.

Blogger endwatcher July 08, 2016 10:15 AM  

Sorry cops over black criminals. We do need reform of both the oversight of cops, and who we select as cops, but the earlier article was bad rhetoric.

Anonymous ThirdMonkey July 08, 2016 10:16 AM  

I have been in law enforcement for over 16 years. I have been through two academies, spent one year as a uniformed officer, and the last 15 years as an investigator. As a young, naïve man, I went into law enforcement because evil exists, and felt it was my calling to confront that evil. Because no profession is immune to the fallen nature of Man, I saw it within the circles I inhabited. The work that I primarily do consists of white-collar fraud and public corruption. I have put many people in prison who professed to be my brother or sister in Christ, to include pastors and deacons, but their actions proved to not be so. I have also put more than my share of dirty cops in prison, mostly for stealing, destroying evidence, drug trafficking, and extortion. We have a problem within law enforcement, and it is sin that is covered up by the badge. In Romans 13, Paul says that “if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer.” The word servant in this verse is the same word that is used for Deacon in the church. Within the church, a Deacon must be above reproach. Likewise, a servant of the people must be above reproach. We have too many people with badges who are not above reproach, but think they are above the law because the government has given them authority. Then we double down and train them to “behave more like an occupying military.” With authority comes responsibility, and that responsibility is to the citizenry and the Constitution. We have the power to deprive people of their liberty and property, and we have to do it within the bounds of the Constitution. Legislators need to quit passing stupid laws, judges need to stop signing things like “no knock” warrants, and cops need to hold themselves to a higher standard, not a special one.

I agree with this post, and the one previous to it. I take my Oath seriously. We have to be vigilant to keep our house in order for the sake of the rule of law, or whatever is left of it. Clarence Thomas was right.


Anonymous LastRedoubt July 08, 2016 10:16 AM  

God I'm fucking torn.

On the one hand, the cops. I know a few, can't claim as many as Vox, most of the ones I know are decent guys. Many are concerned about how things are going, and how the police are being trained. As someone pointed out, they're being trained as law enforcement, not peace officers, and when you have ever more and more petty laws....

The town I'm in is OK. One over, they're notoriously petty about squashing minor infractions, but mostly just hassle you. The other two nearby principalities? Black guy from "A" is stopped in "B" by a cop I'm acquainted with... and profusely thanks the cop and his overall department for their professional behavior, because the cops in town "A" have a reputation.

So we hire dumber people, train them in us vs them, violence uber alles, and to enforce laws rather than make peace. We make them constantly deal with broken and deceitful people while separating them out from the normal and law abiding, excepting traffic stops and other antagonistic situations.

In the meantime, the bunch of losers who run BLM, who haven't found a loser thug or pedophile they couldn't support instead of more clear cut cases, or actually caring about black lives when they're murdered by fellow blacks.

God knows at this time what affiliations the shooters had - and "terrorist" and "BLM" are not exclusive here. While I generally roll my eyes at "false flag" - that would not be out of the question here either. Between Fast and Furious, and various reports that BLM leadership were going to work towards generating enough violence to incur martial law, who knows.

Someone is trying to break things wide open, and are coming prepared.

Unless we want a police state we've got to change the cops.

We also have to hold individuals responsible for thuggish, criminal behavior, regardless of skin color, instead of making excuses.

We do NOT need politicians pandering to the mobs. Any of them.

Blogger VD July 08, 2016 10:17 AM  

And I find a bit of absurdity in the notion that "there are serious issues in department A in state B, so the officers in department C in state D had it coming." That's centralist cancer.

That's stupid. The police themselves make a big deal about their Blue brotherhood, so they shouldn't be even remotely surprised when people take it at face value.

You might think in terms of different departments, and rightly so, but 99 percent of the US population only sees them all as "the police".

Blogger VoodooJock July 08, 2016 10:19 AM  

Throw in the fact that the cops dress much like they did when they were in military service. Lots of tactical gear, exposed body armor with molle loops, and you have an agency that looks like an occupying force rather than part of the community.

Even when they dress like 'civilians', they wear the same operator gear, the 5.11 tactical and whatnot the military contractors use.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr July 08, 2016 10:21 AM  

Joe Doakes raises some excellent points. There's a desperate need for a coordinated procedure for citizens with a carry permit and the police to deal with each other.

There's also a need to get internal affairs OUT of the police departments. An agency investigating itself has an inherent conflict of interest. We need an independent agency, with jurisdiction limited ONLY to law enforcement...and that oversight agency is itself monitored. People will be more patient if they have confidence in the system.

Of course, the FBI letting Hillary Clinton off the hook in the face of damning evidence doesn't help that confidence.

Blogger endwatcher July 08, 2016 10:21 AM  

Yes it was. You are trying to persuade the audience that the cops are bringing it on themselves. Every summer and or weekend violent drug addled criminals roam the streets wrecking mayhem. Sides will now have to be chosen, you are shooting at our side like you always claim the moderates do.

Sorry for the vast majority of whites and blacks, the cops are on our side even if we do not like them. Criminals are against everyone.

Blogger tz July 08, 2016 10:22 AM  

Atlantic article on police paranoia training

We have the war zone mentality, but also traffic ticket taxation and civil forfeiture. The Norman Rockwell image isn't dead but should be.

Blogger Derek Kite July 08, 2016 10:24 AM  

Bah, this is rough. I too know lots of cops, have had long conversations with them. They are normal guys doing an impossible job. They deal with the dregs of humanity every day, and it is almost impossible to maintain a healthy viewpoint of people in that situation.

We in Canada have been for the most part well policed. But it is changing for the worst, and all a direct result of government policy. Police are becoming first response social service providers; drug addicts or users on a bad trip, mentally ill people who well trained people have trouble dealing with, and here a cop has to handle an impossible situation. The informal support networks that historically have sustained men in these situations have been dismantled; they are sexist, or whatever epithet fits, and the guys doing the work are stuck. The good ones do great work tracking down awful people, then in Canada at least they end up on the streets within days thumbing their nose.

But that group mentality is evil. Again, this is institutional and directed. They are taught and these ways are reinforced. Anyone who has people working for them knows that without strong direction a group of people have the potential of being far stupider than individuals, but well managed can accomplish far more than an individual. If these groups are so dysfunctional, then the management is profoundly flawed.

I start from a position of deep respect for these guys, knowing the job and knowing many of the guys. But shooting innocent people is murder, even if you are scared and the situation is unpredictable.

I had a long talk with an experience RCMP guy. He had worked alone for much of his career in small towns across Canada; they would move guys every couple years. He learned that the best way to survive and even thrive was to have the community do the work for him. He was in a small town famous for logging protests and his job often was to enforce court injunctions on the people he played hockey with on the weekend. He did it well, extremely well. He knew everyone, everyone knew him, they talked, he let them make their point, structured a win win situation, then went for a beer with them. Remarkable. If someone did harm, everyone, including people he had arrested the previous week at a protest jumped in to help him do his job to protect the community. Frankly, I love the guy and what he represents. The guy in Ottawa, Sergeant at Arms in Parliament who shot the attacker last year is one of these guys.

I will stand in front, personally, to protect guys like that from harm, and I'm sure that I am not alone. They wouldn't let me though. But the jerks who in a gang killed the guy in the airport in Vancouver, no way.

How can you demand competence from these guys when you bail out the fools in New York and let Clinton skate?

Blogger Chris Jackson July 08, 2016 10:25 AM  

@7 - "And when, as a matter of policy, you reject recruits with an IQ that exceeds 104, then what you're left with is not only us-vs-them, but an us that isn't terribly smart."

While I chuckled a bit at this, are you sure that's a thing?

I think I might have been rejected from the IBEW for a similar reason but I don't think I'd ever be able to prove it.

Anonymous Jay Will July 08, 2016 10:25 AM  

@VD

Its the truth though. You are falling into their trap. This is not a BLM issue, its not a police issue, its not a white nationalism issue. They are all smoke and mirrors to hide the real truth that greedy, lying elites are behind all this and hundreds of thousands die, and will die as a result of them.

I have no intention of attacking anybody, but what else can stop them? The court of public opinion? They are winning. That you buy into their media games shows how even very intelligent people can be hoodwinked. This is all being engineered and lots of people are about to die and IT DOESN'T HAVE TO HAPPEN. You rarely talk about elites engineering a lot of this. Why is that? Same as your rarely looking at the Israel firster issue. You seem to see this as a cuck issue, or that Europeans have gone soft. Its because the people at the top own it all.

I sense you see this whole thing as some cosmically pre-determined giant war, and that Jesus Christ will be re-born out of the ashes. That millions will die is just the way it is.

Blogger residentMoron July 08, 2016 10:25 AM  

Josh wrote:Much of the USA is a no-go zone.

That is factually incorrect.


Just "incorrect" is sufficient.

The qualifier just makes one look like they don't know what the word you're qualifying means.

Not to pick on you, and I know it's the fad amongst certain media types, but it's incorrect.

Blogger residentMoron July 08, 2016 10:26 AM  

cf. also:

wrong
false
mistaken
incongruent with reality
a lie

Blogger Cloudswrest July 08, 2016 10:26 AM  

"John Sanders ‏@Platniumblum
@voxday outed himself as a closeted SJW. Blacks have no agency, no responsibility. The cops had it coming. #Dallas #disavowBLM"


It's like that scene in the beginning of Gone With the Wind where Charles Hamilton berates and insults Rhett Butler for simply telling it like it is.

Blogger Abyssus Invocat July 08, 2016 10:27 AM  

This day has been coming since the police decided to militaries and the Feds helped and encouraged them to do it, probably in hopes of creating an occupying force. Occupying forces will always fall to 4GW, so the police want to return to the status quo ante, they must choose this day whom they will serve...

Blogger Ceasar July 08, 2016 10:28 AM  

No amount of posturing by either side's supporters will change the fact that police are put in situations where they must make decisions to ensure their own safety. If the cost of a bad decision is someone else's life rather than the police officers I am pretty sure the police officer and his family/friends would rather have the prior. This is not perfect by any means but until you resolve the issue of police putting their lives on the line for the sake of Protect and Serve, I am not sure anything will change no matter how this issue is slanted or used by politicians/MSM.

Anonymous Anonymous July 08, 2016 10:31 AM  

Sorry just saw your tweet and had to jump on my phone to make a quick response. I already ranted once on your other article so this is more a formality.

Your still spouting ludicrous pseudo-facts and fighting against your own views you hypocrite. This is why people think everyone on the right is a nut job.

Anywho figured I needed to break the silence. Dig the evil face mask by the way. It's like fantasy Anonymous, except 10x more likely to spout stupid bullshit than the average Anonymous member

Blogger tz July 08, 2016 10:32 AM  

@30 cops are on cops side, civilians be damned. Sheriff Clarke of Milwaukee County might be the best but his first and every other podcast shows he is blue first. They are a tribe. There are only the rarest examples of good cops - remember Serpico?

And the police aren't an alt-Right tribe, though that will be a problem as many Trump supporters see the police as part of it.

The violent pushers roam the streets because there isn't money in arresting them, only in giving out crap tickets. Ferguson wasn't more safe because of the police, the police were merely an extortion gang.

Anonymous Longtime Lurker July 08, 2016 10:33 AM  

"Ironically, one of those lessons is that an occupying military should behave more like traditional street cops, while what we're seeing is the traditional street cops being trained to behave more like an occupying military."

A number of my friends are police officers too. Good guys all the way around. Yet it was jarring the first time I heard them describe the rest of us as "civilians," as if they were soldiers and not cops.

Blogger S1AL July 08, 2016 10:36 AM  

"That's stupid. The police themselves make a big deal about their Blue brotherhood, so they shouldn't be even remotely surprised when people take it at face value."

That's mostly a (big) city cop thing. State police and the sheriff's departments usually despise them for a reason. Makes me wish we had a modem day Roosevelt to clean this crap up (his NYPD reforms are as important as - and more useful than - anything he did on the national stage).

This entire situation is frustrating on several levels. On the one hand, many of the best people I've ever known were LEO's of one stripe or another. On the other we have a rampant overreaction issue that needs to be put down.

However, the point getting glossed over - and why it's happening here i do not know - is that the immigration from South and Central America spawned a lot of this. MS12/13 alone are responsible for more police escalation than all other factors combined. Until that issue is addressed, there's not going be any deescalation.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 08, 2016 10:38 AM  

We need a Stanley Prout to save us from ourselves

Blogger tz July 08, 2016 10:39 AM  

There is no honor in doing the safest possible thing. Cops were honored because they would not shoot too fast because he might kill someone innocent.
A killbot cannot have honor and deserves no more sympathy than the Auschwitz guards that also just did their jobs.
Is their goal to protect peace and safety and the Constitution?
Or to raise revenue and get home safe whatever it takes.

The 4gw aspect is worse. Many know where the cops live. Maybe they can get home safe, but to what?

Anonymous Faceless July 08, 2016 10:42 AM  

The ones around where I live that are "the good ones" - they dress like it's 1950, and they're friendly when you talk to them in a diner or a convenience store. They look kind of like mounties, except brown instead of red.

The ones around where I live that are "the bad ones" - they dress like they're headed into a warzone at all times. Black outfit, combat belts, three different electronic gadgets hanging off them, the whole works.

The reasonable ones also tend to have older cars. Officer Murphy in the Crown Vic with the old fashioned lights on top is a whole lot more a normal guy than Officer Butts in the Off-Road Silverado Z71 4x4 with an LS engine and police lights that are hidden until he's in pursuit mode.

Blogger VD July 08, 2016 10:50 AM  

I have no intention of attacking anybody, but what else can stop them?

Then stop talking like a rabid dog who is intent on raising the black flag and slitting throats. You're nothing but talk and we all know it. So shut the fuck up already. We don't need your dramatic posturings.

However, the point getting glossed over - and why it's happening here i do not know - is that the immigration from South and Central America spawned a lot of this.

No, it did not. What spurred it was a) the War on Drugs, b) the civil forfeiture money and c) the desire of some cops to role-play soldiers.

Blogger Ponce Du Lion July 08, 2016 10:51 AM  

Vox this isn't an attack on the anti freedom apparatus. This is an attack (another) against White People.

Blogger VD July 08, 2016 10:53 AM  

If the cost of a bad decision is someone else's life rather than the police officers I am pretty sure the police officer and his family/friends would rather have the prior.

Probably not if someone else's friends follow him home and engage in reprisals. Do you really think that won't happen if the police continue with this idiotic "I felt scared so I killed him" policy?

Blogger VD July 08, 2016 10:55 AM  

Vox this isn't an attack on the anti freedom apparatus.

I never said it was. But it isn't merely an attack on whites. They didn't choose white firefighters or white children. They chose white cops.

4GW is almost never single-issue. That's part of why it is so difficult to tame.

Anonymous ThirdMonkey July 08, 2016 10:55 AM  

No, it did not. What spurred it was a) the War on Drugs, b) the civil forfeiture money and c) the desire of some cops to role-play soldiers.

That's a bingo!

Blogger O Canastrão July 08, 2016 10:57 AM  

"Bah, this is rough. I too know lots of cops, have had long conversations with them. They are normal guys doing an impossible job. They deal with the dregs of humanity every day, and it is almost impossible to maintain a healthy viewpoint of people in that situation. "

This is very true.

Blogger Josh July 08, 2016 11:00 AM  

This is very true.

Who cares?

Teachers, social workers, etc deal with the same sorts of people.

Blogger Noah B July 08, 2016 11:01 AM  

Every justifiable homicide amounts to a case of "I felt scared to I killed him." It's just a question of whether others believe that the killer was justified in his belief. Killing someone who is physically attacking you and/or reaching for a weapon of their own does not seem unreasonable.

Blogger Nick S July 08, 2016 11:03 AM  

For once, I agree with Nancy Pelosi. "We must address the root causes."
The problem is Nancy, like most people, just wants to drill down until her personal confirmation bias is satisfied. If you really want to discover root causes, Nancy, keep drilling.

Anonymous WinstonWebb July 08, 2016 11:06 AM  

There really is only one immediate logical solution to this problem:

Disarm the police.

Blogger Human Animal July 08, 2016 11:07 AM  

The guy in Ottawa, Sergeant at Arms in Parliament who shot the attacker last year is one of these guys.

Prick shot the soldier guarding a monument. That's gratuitous. Then the old civil servant takes a gun from a drawer, goes across the hall to a safe for ammunition, and restores the middle part of Peace, Order and Good Government.

Trouble with being pragmatic is we don't have a good defense against political crazies. We can only half believe they can spoil a budget, let alone warp and corrupt whole institutions.

But at least we only elected a naive goof, not the creatures Clinton.

Blogger S1AL July 08, 2016 11:08 AM  

"No, it did not. What spurred it was a) the War on Drugs, b) the civil forfeiture money and c) the desire of some cops to role-play soldiers."

WRT (a), while not directly connected to the aforementioned gangs, there has always been a strong connection between immigration and the drug trade, and Latin American countries are the most closely tied to it. This is heavily substantiated. Granted, it's also a positive feedback system.

(B) Yeah, there's a reason that my state funds its police departments through resource revenues and also has much lower rates ticketing than elsewhere.

(C) Honestly can't speak to this one. Never met any like this, but I'm sure they exist somewhere. Most of the LEO's I've spoken to said the last thing they wanted was to be involved a firefight.

Blogger haus frau July 08, 2016 11:12 AM  

I had a conversation with a friend who is a cop and her husband and teenage step-son just a few days ago about the push for Australia-style gun confiscation and the debt bomb/unleashing of the ebt zombies. I was surprised at the clear awareness of 4gw from people who probably never heard of the term and the feeling that we are in for a civil war. Anyway, they are fully aware that there won't be any uniforms like the confederates and the union. It will be the police chief's wife getting shot while doing yard work, etc. She says she will retire well before she is called on to enforce such laws. This is the state we are in. The hotter things get for the police the more honest, peace-maker cops will be winnowed out and only the thugs and low iq types will stick around.

Anonymous Gen. Kong July 08, 2016 11:16 AM  

Since there is no rule of law, why should anyone expect the police to be held accountable for lawless actions they commit? As I noted the other day, FBI sniper Lon Horiuchi walks free today regardless of how many capital murders he committed. If you're connected to the oligarchy, there's no law which will be enforced against you. BLM's funders know this and ben the 75-IQ dindus now see themselves as part of the ruling party to whom no laws need apply. They've come into conflict the government employees of the badge-gang who are already afforded this treatment. So yes, this is the inevitable consequence of the abolition of the rule of law. Nothing really surprising about it.

The thing that is annoying are the cucks who still think that there is a rule of law and blindly uphold the badge gang. We've already seem two instances where a candidate for president was shouted down by a violent mob as the badge-gang, obeying orders from their criminal bosses, stood down. I find it amusing that the Dallas chief-goonda actually stated BLM targeted whites when members of the badge-gang were killed, but routinely denies the thousands of whites targeted by groids every week - invariably explaining it away as a "home-invasion gone wrong" just like the Lügenpresse. You're on your own badge-gang. You obey orders from criminals and this will be the inevitable result.

Blogger flyingtiger July 08, 2016 11:16 AM  

Memo to any cops out there:
If you have a rough customer who needs an adjustment, give a few extra kicks into him before the cuffs go on. You can claim he was resisting. Once the cuffs are on, no violence. Civilian review boards and juries do not understand violence after the cuffs are on.
I feel I just saved a few carreers here.

Anonymous Roundtine July 08, 2016 11:18 AM  

Disarming the police would work wonders in the vast red portions of America. At least until the Mexican drug cartels that have spread out across middle America decide to get violent.

Anonymous Gen. Kong July 08, 2016 11:29 AM  

Broken Arrow:
Take a minute to think about who you are angry at, is it Vox for saying American police have structural problems, or the fact that another brick in the wall of civil order in the USA has just been removed?

This - exactly. Some of us would phrase it as "bringing notice to the fact that an important brick in the wall of civil order in the USA has been gone for some time." It was removed at least two decades ago. Until police are willing to turn their weapons on criminals who give them orders, they're part of the problem.

Blogger Mark Mitchell July 08, 2016 11:33 AM  

While I have a great sympathy for Vox's position, I wouldn't expect decent decision-making out of people who are screened out for above-average IQ. If the suspect is similiarly not bright, you can expect bad things to happen.

My questions are, why are the police being dumbed down and trained as a paramilitary force, cui bono?
Does anyone think that this event is intended (by whomever) to ratchet UP confrontational policing?
Why has the citizenry been so passive as to allow it? Where is the political deficit that has resigned oversight the state's only valid monopoly?
Do diversified societies require a second-line of ethnically reflexive policing, whether that is Shomrim, Sharia patrols, KKK or IRA boyos?

Blogger jdwalker July 08, 2016 11:34 AM  

My first reaction to this was that it is time to give the blacks their own space to do with what they will. I can't help but believe that a lot of the problems that Vox notes about the police would greatly diminish and be addressable if there wasn't a need for the Civil Rights Act and all of the diversity, multiculturalism ideology that is based on it.

Blogger Robert What? July 08, 2016 11:36 AM  

A major part of the problem is the the police, over the years, have morphed from "peace officers" to "law enforcers". When, why and how did that happen?

Anonymous Bagger Vance July 08, 2016 11:37 AM  

The problem isn't just confined to street police. Remember the friend of the Boston bombers, gunned down by the FBI interrogator?

https://news.vice.com/article/fbi-agent-who-killed-boston-bombing-suspects-friend-was-twice-accused-of-police-brutality

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/criminal-charges-fbi-agent-deadly-boston-bombing-linked/story?id=23049206

The FBI shoots suspects, investigates itself, and clears itself, every time. Not very encouraging for reform.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/19/us/in-150-shootings-the-fbi-deemed-agents-faultless.html?_r=0

Anonymous ThirdMonkey July 08, 2016 11:38 AM  

Disarming the police would work wonders in the vast red portions of America.

God, I wish we lived in Mayberry. In the town that I grew up, the Sheriff never wore a gun during the day. Our county was slightly smaller than the entire state of Connecticut, and he only had two deputies. However, there was a contingent of around 25 reserve deputies. The sheriff's department didn't get heavy-handed with the citizenry because the department WAS the citizenry. And you didn't swipe something from the drug store because the pharmacist was also a sworn deputy. People stayed in line, and the sheriff stayed in line, too.

Blogger Keef July 08, 2016 11:42 AM  

"In regards to the “Us Vs Them” mentality; unfortunately, it was ingrained in us from the beginning at the academy and if you do not guard against it you will find yourself moving in that direction after a short time working as a police officer."


If that's your attitude then you have no business being a cop. These are the people that pay your salary they are not enemy combatants by default. Go join the fire fighters or EMTs.

Or better yet get a job where someone voluntarily pays you instead of being part of the protection racket know as government employment.

Blogger Derek Kite July 08, 2016 11:44 AM  

52. Josh, you are right. So? Look, I manage people. If I do it right, they are happy, productive, do a really good job, and my customers love them and me. If I do it wrong, buildings burn down, people lose product and we cost them money, I end up dealing with complaints, callbacks, endless warranty issues, and I go out of business. It is up to me to set up the systems so that the guys can do the work effectively.

Police work is hard, very hard, with the added bonus of being the visible face of government policy. If one of my guys is sloppy, steals customer stuff, or abuses people being in a position of power, it is my fault. I should have fire him, controlled him.

There are bad cops, and they are nurtured and protected by the institutions that pay them. A structure of accountability can be an enemy or a way of improving the work for everyone.

This is one more instance of the inability of American's to manage people. It is easier to send work oversees than to actually learn how to manage a large work force. It is easier to maintain a military style system with all its abuses than to manage a large work force of police officers well. It is easier to write laws than enforce them. It is easier to throw people in jail than to foster healthy communities.

The police situation is a reflection of the society they serve in all it's dimensions. I remember reading about Spain under Franco. They purposely assigned police officers to places they didn't know and had no connection with so they would without qualm do the dirty and nasty work of enforcing the laws. I would guarantee without knowing that this is written policy in US policing.

Anonymous Eric the Red July 08, 2016 11:47 AM  

This is disgusting. This has nothing to do with 'life or death split second decisions'. The only real issue is whether each LEO has, in the quiet of his own thoughts, decided to enforce the leftist unConstitutional tyranny that keeps ratcheting into place. Once they've made that decision, they've become a force for evil. After that, all bets are off.

Blogger dc.sunsets July 08, 2016 11:49 AM  

Peel enough layers & we'll find one original ingredient of this is our heterogeneous populace.

Imagine spending your work day interacting mostly with the worst elements of society...the sociopath crooks & their circle of borderline moron friends & family. I'm glad I didn't become a cop. Power corrupts.

A nation of people whose ancestors came from what is now Germany, England, France, Holland, etc. would be peaceful,and even the rare crooks would be far less violent. This is self-evident.

That nation could have unarmed, polite cops. The path ahead, eventually resulting in homogeneous societies, promises to be far more violent before it becomes less so.

Blogger Were-Puppy July 08, 2016 11:51 AM  

Real life is turning into Gotham

Blogger Robert Divinity July 08, 2016 11:53 AM  

"I noted the other day, FBI sniper Lon Horiuchi walks free today regardless of how many capital murders he committed. If you're connected to the oligarchy, there's no law which will be enforced against you."

The Weaver case should have focused more attention on our rapid national descent into a police state. If the alternate media were available then, Horuchi might be awaiting the needle. Warrantless searches spawned by the "war on drugs (and humanity)" sped along the process. Add into that mix police intrusions due to domestic violence grant money, and the ability to stop and frisk for mere suspicion. All opened the Pandora's Box.

Soon the police will be the weaponized agents of the SJW state and the largely untouched middle class will feel the lash. Black street thugs are unsympathetic creatures but they are the canaries in the coalmine. Things will get ugly very quickly unless something dramatically changes soon. When the police become the official SJW mercenary force, live ammunition will replace stand-downs as the white population is oppressed and in the crosshair.

Blogger Were-Puppy July 08, 2016 11:55 AM  

@5 Alexandros

A friend called a police officer over to report an attempted burglary shortly after the event occurred; the officer was apparently visibly twitching and on edge as if my friend called him over to execute him.
---

Reminds me of one time I was with a buddy (Indian dot) and he was locked out of his house. He asked if I would "break into" it for him, as he was afraid that if he was caught breaking into his own house and a neighbor calls the cops, he would get shot.

His logic was sound - mostly white neighborhood.

Blogger Were-Puppy July 08, 2016 11:57 AM  

@8 WinstonWebb
Another cause of uber-violent cops.
---

I had a neighbor cop once, and he took HGH and who knows what else. Was a buff monster. Don't those guys see what happens to wrestlers after years of taking that stuff?

Blogger Keef July 08, 2016 11:58 AM  

Also Vox,

I think this is the best piece I've ever read on your site. You and I certainly don't see eye to eye on everything but I couldn't agree more with your take.

Blogger Were-Puppy July 08, 2016 12:00 PM  

@15 Moonbear

The few times I've been in the USA I've felt like the cops were an occupying force. You are 100% correct in that assessment.
---

Would you mind describing what gave you this feeling?

I suffer from the blind spot Vox described in the other post about not knowing how cops are in other countries. Except in Mexico. Which i've always considered a criminal racket.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents July 08, 2016 12:02 PM  

I wonder how many more incidents like this it will take before Obama declares martial law? Reluctantly, of course.

A declaration of martial law, perhaps during or shortly after the political conventions, would solve that pesky potential “lost election” problem.

Blogger dc.sunsets July 08, 2016 12:03 PM  

This (attacking cops) is part of the larger corruption of the political apparatus (cops are it's enforcement agents), which is a symptom of a sick and corrupt populace.

Funny money, fake financial accounting, creating a divided citizenry and encouraging inter-group conflict, buying re-election with borrowed funds and politicians dispensing emollients like priests selling indulgences......

...it's all one big sign of a sick society, a volatile mix in search of a spark.

Renewal can come after the conflagration occurs, but not before.

Blogger dc.sunsets July 08, 2016 12:05 PM  

Emolluments, not emollients. Stupid autocorrect..., I know the damned difference.

Blogger Zen Trader July 08, 2016 12:06 PM  

Your article surprised me Vox, because you seem to think policing is the problem and not just a symptom of the real problem. These changes to policing didn't occur in a vacuum. Cops didn't wake up one day and say, "ya know, let's just change our protocols and scare the shit out of new recruits." Why this happened is important. And I think your solution, to “drop their military style affectations,” is utterly ineffective as this isn’t the source of the conflict, it’s an adaptation to it.

I think the new policing is a reflection of our changing, increasingly diverse society, where social trust is breaking down and tribalism is increasing. Lest we forget, tribal societies are really fucking violent unless there's only one tribe, something I believe you’ve pointed out many times. In an increasingly violent and diverse society, it’s not surprising that police would take steps to mitigate their risk. It’s a lot easier to be self-sacrificing when it's for YOUR community, made up of people like you that you know and belong with, and who aren't all that violent. Throw these guys into situations where they have to deal with people who hate them, aren't like them, and are much more violent and exhibit more criminal behavior in general, and surprise surprise, they're not willing to take as much risk.

Considering that they no longer have that sense of social belonging and aren’t honored the way they used to be, why should put their lives and their families' well being at risk? For $50k/yr, a shitty pension which might not be there anyway, and working nights and holidays? Who would do that, and could you call them rational? It's hard for me to sit here and say, "It's a higher calling, do it!" when I would never take that deal.

Similarly, you can't compare our cops to those in China and call that proof positive of anything. Chinese cops are working with a racially homogeneous, high-IQ, low aggression population that is disarmed and much more docile. Apples and oranges. It would be one thing if you could prove it was their protocols and method, but this looked like a simple comparison to me.

I'm not saying there are no solutions, but I think it's a thornier issue than a lot of people are willing to acknowledge, which is inevitable ethnic/racial conflict as a result of "diversity." Humans don't have a good track record of solving these problems historically. Also, the changes that have been wrought to our society are probably permanent absent a massive war that nobody wants. I don’t think there’s any easy solution here, but maybe the high-IQ types here have some ideas.

Blogger Were-Puppy July 08, 2016 12:09 PM  

@22 S1AL

Anecdotally, police recruitment is struggling in an unprecedented way.
---

Wonder if there is a breakdown of the actual jobs that are open.

Are they for traffic cop positions, camera monitoring positions, parking meter cops, etc.

Part of the problem, maybe not the shooting of people, but part is they are also now a revenue collection unit.

It was like clockwork in Atlanta (probably still is) around the end/beginning of the month, it would be traffic ticket quota time.

They know people are flying along the highway, with the flow of traffic, around 70+ MPH. 75 South, once you get from Cobb into Fulton, there they are. Pulling over as many as they can for speeding tickets.

One time they had an ambush set up right off an exit. You're coming off an exit going around 60 MPH and slowing down to stop at the light ahead. They have 10 or 15 cars pulled over says were speeding. But you were going with the flow of traffic.

It's revenue generation.

Anonymous Gen. Kong July 08, 2016 12:11 PM  

@63. Mark Mitchell.
My questions are, why are the police being dumbed down and trained as a paramilitary force, cui bono? Does anyone think that this event is intended (by whomever) to ratchet UP confrontational policing? Why has the citizenry been so passive as to allow it? Where is the political deficit that has resigned oversight the state's only valid monopoly?

All very good questions which are not easily answered. I think VD's three observations on the direct causes of the transformation of the peace officer of a bygone era into the badge-gang goonda of today are largely correct. This is not to say that there have not been serious exacerbating factors (like the whole abolition of freedom of association for whites, the 1965 alien colonization act and others) which have only served to accelerate the process. As also noted 4GW is very messy, so it's a serious - even deadly - error to assume either a white badge-gang goonda is your ally any more than a Soros-funded BLM dindu is. The oligarchy rules by dividing people and setting them against one another. One thing we can absolutely count in is that the Lügenpresse will be spinning the story per the narrative set by their owners, likewise all the government agencies. Truth, as has been noted, is the first casualty of war. Most in the Banana Empire are stupidly blind to the fact that a war has been waged - against them - for quite some time.

Blogger bob k. mando July 08, 2016 12:15 PM  

WWCTP?

Blogger Frank Brady July 08, 2016 12:19 PM  

Although the primary root cause of all human problems is original sin, the social collapse of the United States is the direct result of the Great Society Welfare State programs.

Lyndon Johnson and his posse destroyed the father's role as primary breadwinner in low income families with programs that made him economically unnecessary. Blacks were disproportionately affected because of demographics. As a result, more than 80% of black infants are born to single moms (and the white rate isn't so hot either). Generations of young black males have grown to adulthood with no father figure.

At about the same time, the Gun Control Act of 1968 was enacted. Prior to its passage, virtually anyone in America could buy a firearm by mail from Sears, Montgomery Wards, or other dealers with no background check and no federal involvement. After these two federal interventions, young black fatherless males began to roam the streets of American inner cities and turned them into killing zones.

If we truly want to reduce violence, we must eliminate its root cause.

Blogger Chris Mallory July 08, 2016 12:19 PM  

Robert What? wrote:A major part of the problem is the the police, over the years, have morphed from "peace officers" to "law enforcers". When, why and how did that happen?

They have always been crooked. I have family that were state troopers. They always had a garage full of booze they had "confiscated" from citizens traveling thru dry counties. They would show off the guns they stole from under citizen's car seats. This was back in the 70's.

Blogger Were-Puppy July 08, 2016 12:20 PM  

@40 tz

And the police aren't an alt-Right tribe, though that will be a problem as many Trump supporters see the police as part of it.
---

They should be disabused of the notion with how the cops in San Jose and Chicago let the violent protesters attack them.

Cleveland looks to be even worse.

Blogger Chris Mallory July 08, 2016 12:22 PM  

Robert What? wrote:A major part of the problem is the the police, over the years, have morphed from "peace officers" to "law enforcers". When, why and how did that happen?

They have always been crooked. I have family that were state troopers. They always had a garage full of booze they had "confiscated" from citizens traveling thru dry counties. They would show off the guns they stole from under citizen's car seats. This was back in the 70's.

Anonymous johnc July 08, 2016 12:24 PM  

In general, police aren't likely to back down from incidents like this. Instead they will double-down. They will fight from a position of power rather than submit from weakness. And, considering the low-IQ requirement, they're unlikely to entertain intellectual exercises about possible causes.

Blogger S1AL July 08, 2016 12:27 PM  

"Wonder if there is a breakdown of the actual jobs that are open.

Are they for traffic cop positions, camera monitoring positions, parking meter cops, etc."

My numbers are based on applications for the police academy, which generally means street cops afaik. But it doesn't really matter when you're talking a drop from 600 (steady rate over a couple decades) to 60. That speaks to a much bigger issue.

Anonymous Jack Amok July 08, 2016 12:35 PM  

A major part of the problem is the the police, over the years, have morphed from "peace officers" to "law enforcers". When, why and how did that happen?

When you have more laws, you need more enforcement. When you decide to re-feudalize society, you need your Sheriffs of Nottingham.

(hilarious, the captch was a speed limit sign)

Blogger tz July 08, 2016 12:59 PM  

@87 True, but the compartmentalized conservatism takes over. Just like 9/11/2001, 3000 dead in a few cities - constitution burning panic. Every day for a generation, 3000 dead in abortion clinics - yawn.
Many are "law and order" types, and the local constable is still like Andy Griffith. In the cities, they are like Marines storming Fallujah.

But others like me try to point things out. Police are less accountable than Hillary Clinton.

The basis on why they were originally honored - because they risked their lives - has been eliminated now that they shoot first and any paranoid irrational fear justifies the shooting. If the police want the same honor (as like firefighters) they need to be willing to risk their lives to preserve the lives and liberty of others.

Anonymous Phil Mann July 08, 2016 1:00 PM  

They would show off the guns they stole from under citizen's car seats.

One of the best collections of illegal weapons I've ever seen belonged to a co-worker/acquaintance of mine who inherited it from his father who had been a career Chicago cop. (This, too, was in the 70s.) Apparently, the game then was that, if a cop came across something "interesting" he'd keep it for himself and tell the guy to get lost. (What's he going to do -- file a complaint?)

Long before concealed carry became legal in Illinois, the conventional wisdom around Chicago was to carry something nice (e.g. Colt Python) if you were respectable and elected to go armed, the reasoning being that, if discovered, the cop just might decide to keep it for himself rather than run you in. I never had any direct experience with this at the time, so don't know if it's true, but there is a certain logic behind it.

Blogger bob k. mando July 08, 2016 1:02 PM  

15. Moonbear July 08, 2016 10:01 AM
Much of the USA is a no-go zone.



i am a long haul CDL driver.

by law, i am NOT permitted to carry a firearm in my work truck. even worse, i occasionally cross the border into Canuckistan. definitely not worth the hassle to try to remember to get all firearms / ammo out of my truck before every border crossing.

i travel all over the country, unarmed.

stay out of the Porch Monkey neighborhoods and you'll have few problems.

kind of like how you can't go into the Sand Nigger neighborhoods in Paris or London ...


so your contention that "Much of the USA is a no-go zone" can only be considered remotely accurate if you ALSO consider "Much of the UK/France/Sweden/Germany/etc" to be no-go zones.

Blogger tz July 08, 2016 1:04 PM  

BJW? Blue Justice Warrior? They are doubling down and projecting...
Balko: "Rise of the Warrior Cop" documents most of the militarization.
The Blaze ("The Root" show) did a documentary about how the police were militarized - Los Angeles was ground zero when they hired "farm boys" to patrol a large city, created an academy along more military lines, etc.

@87 Most conservatives compartmentalize. 9/11/2001, 3000 lives - burn the constitution. 3000 abortions daily for a generation, shrug. They still have the Norman Rockwell picture of the police. Here at least in the west it is split since the FBI/BLM is a problem and Sheriffs are taking sides.

Blogger Nick S July 08, 2016 1:11 PM  

This is one more instance of the inability of American's to manage people.

What they don't understand, Derek, is that you can't modify human nature. The best you can hope to do is leverage the beneficial aspects, accommodate the innocuous aspects and discourage the destructive aspects of it. You can't pretend it is something other than it is. Human nature doesn't change and selective artificial impositions intended to create a more level playing field will only and forever make things worse.

Blogger BC July 08, 2016 1:13 PM  

According to Brown, police cornered Micah Johnson and negotiated with him for several hours. When talks broke down – they exchanged gunfire with the man. At that point, police sent in a remote vehicle and detonated a bomb – ultimately killing him.

“We saw no other option but to use our bomb robot and place a device on its extension for it to detonate where the suspect was. Other options would have exposed our officers to great danger” said Brown.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2016/07/08/chief-brown-dallas-shooting-suspect-wanted-to-kill-white-people/

So this is what is acceptable for police forces to do now? Unbelievable.

Anonymous ticticboom July 08, 2016 1:16 PM  

@Robert What?:

Going from Peace Officers to Law Enforcement was bad, but now many are primarily Revenue Enhancement Officers.

Police are really just an officially sanctioned protection racket. And, let's be honest, there will always be one of some kind anywhere outside of really rural areas.

The real problem is when they get used to raise money. The whole point is to not get robbed. If the local mafiosi collect protection money, then turn around and rob the locals anyway, they shouldn't be surprised if there are some negative consequences.

Blogger Rusty Fife July 08, 2016 1:17 PM  

Nick S wrote:This is one more instance of the inability of American's to manage people.

What they don't understand, Derek, is that you can't modify human nature. The best you can hope to do is leverage the beneficial aspects, accommodate the innocuous aspects and discourage the destructive aspects of it. You can't pretend it is something other than it is. Human nature doesn't change and selective artificial impositions intended to create a more level playing field will only and forever make things worse.


Watch it. You are coming aweful close to Crime Think. Perhaps it is time for you to renew your PC CE credits.

All of those things you listed will cause the lawyers to own your company.

Blogger Rusty Fife July 08, 2016 1:22 PM  

BC wrote:According to Brown, police cornered Micah Johnson and negotiated with him for several hours. When talks broke down – they exchanged gunfire with the man. At that point, police sent in a remote vehicle and detonated a bomb – ultimately killing him.

“We saw no other option but to use our bomb robot and place a device on its extension for it to detonate where the suspect was. Other options would have exposed our officers to great danger” said Brown.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2016/07/08/chief-brown-dallas-shooting-suspect-wanted-to-kill-white-people/

So this is what is acceptable for police forces to do now? Unbelievable.


Waiting days for a siege to end over water would keep the insanity on the 24hr news coverage. Can't have that so close to the Democrat convention, it would look bad for BLM.

Anonymous BGKB July 08, 2016 1:36 PM  

Well by tonight I won't have to hear whining about moving out past pizza delivery range.

its how they hire .. right now if you are ex mil you get 20 extra points on you evaluation

True for all govt jobs including the janitors at the VA.

Governor Dayton already announced that race played a part in the shooting, that the driver would not have been shot had he been White.

Because they looked for a black armed robber whose picture was just released that matched his description, the guy was also a Crip Gang banger. The Crips don't accept whites.

There's a desperate need for a coordinated procedure for citizens with a carry permit and the police to deal with each other.

Where is this coming from, if pulled over hand your CCW permit over with your license, insurance, registration. If you are being questioned outside of your car, in a situation that you are not free to go, tell them you have a license to carry, do not say "GUN".

No amount of posturing by either side's supporters will change the fact that police are put in situations where they must make decisions to ensure their own safety.

There is a reason there are a greater percentage of black doctors than black pilots. Since computerized pharmacies its very hard for a black doctors incompetence to kill himself.

Blogger Feather Blade July 08, 2016 1:42 PM  

@81 Similarly, you can't compare our cops to those in China and call that proof positive of anything.

I would have assumed that you couldn't call it "proof positive of anything" because it's self-reported numbers coming out of China.

Or were these numbers not self-reported?

Anonymous Gen. Kong July 08, 2016 1:51 PM  

Almost makes me wonder if the elites are getting ready to toss their golden dindus beneath the bus of perpetual progress. That would be highly amusing, and it has already proved to be by far the most entertaining erection yeah evah. Alternatively, the oligarchs might want all white badge-gang goondas out of their collection agencies so they can be replaced by BLM and Fruit of Islam types, ordered around by the (((usual apparachiks))). Mocha Messiah did promise a homeland army for his rabble of worshippers as I recall.

Blogger Geoff martin July 08, 2016 1:57 PM  

Incredible the amount of unfounded criticism Vox received for the first post.

He was simply *explaining* the events and how one angle allowed them to come about. Explanation =/= justification, as he was made sure to clearly state.

Blogger Ponce Du Lion July 08, 2016 2:10 PM  

This is why we have to rhetorically address it from the perspective that is more important to us. Diversity is worse than triggered cops. I would even say it is the cause.
And less aggressive cops aren't go to bring back our freedom and end the rights-specific exceptions arbitrariness regime

Blogger VD July 08, 2016 2:13 PM  

This is why we have to rhetorically address it from the perspective that is more important to us.

We don't have to do anything of the sort. I'm not interested in fanning your race war. It will come in time whether you want it or not.

And less aggressive cops aren't go to bring back our freedom and end the rights-specific exceptions arbitrariness regime

Cops aren't on the side of freedom. Who do you think works for a police state?

Anonymous ruralboy July 08, 2016 2:16 PM  

The us vs. them militarization happened in the lilly white rural areas as well and well before the immigration invasions of recent memory. This is systematic and driven by the same folks opening the borders. But immigration itself isn't a direct cause.

Anonymous John Steed July 08, 2016 2:16 PM  

@94. I`ve had a number of truckers tell me that they pack and show me dozens of places where a gat can be hidden on a semi. They drive from Mexico to Great Soviet Kanuckastan with no problems. One even had a decal on his door that said: `Keep Calm and Carry a Gun`.

Anonymous FP July 08, 2016 2:25 PM  

This is all part of the divide and conquer strategies. Plenty of people are and will react to this emotionally even when they know how bad it is. Because they still believe in the rule of law and don't want to face the truth. You can't trust the cops or rely on them to do what is right. But the cops are the only way one can deal with certain groups/forces like BLM in our PC world, so they support them against the thugs. Thugs against thugs. Yay team!

Others are still cucks and in complete denial of how bad it can be with even your buddy the local cop.

Oh, and cops tazing teens who actually want to know why they were pulled over... and then dragging and dropping said kid like a sack of potatoes as they go into cardiac arrest won't win friends and influence people. We civvies aren't all evil skels but if treated like it, expect blowback.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9IdKylinGg

Blogger bob k. mando July 08, 2016 2:48 PM  

108. John Steed July 08, 2016 2:16 PM
I`ve had a number of truckers tell me that they pack and show me dozens of places where a gat can be hidden on a semi.



a - that doesn't make it legal
b - that doesn't make it a good idea
c - that doesn't keep it from being a great way to get yourself shot by American cops

also, i'm not ( right now ) driving a semi.

any commercial combination vehicle ( farm equip possibly excluded ) over 26,000lbs requires Class A. most of your semi tractors are ~30k with no trailer on, so there's a LOT of stuff running up and down the road that aren't 70k-80k but still require full CDL.

Blogger Nate July 08, 2016 3:12 PM  

"also, i'm not ( right now ) driving a semi."

Dad was a trucker for years.

99.999% of semis have a firearm in them.

That is fact.

Blogger Nate July 08, 2016 3:14 PM  

"And less aggressive cops aren't go to bring back our freedom and end the rights-specific exceptions arbitrariness regime"

Look Nancy...

You can cry about it all you want.. but the fact is this is a cop problem. When you have 70 year old white women who are scared to be pulled over by cops... You have a serious cop problem.

And... this particular cop problem can even be traced back to one guy who went around promoting is hyper-aggressive mentality to police as a means to keep them safe.

Blogger Nate July 08, 2016 3:16 PM  

God you people can be such binary thinkers. You are pissed at urban blacks... therefore the cops are good guys.

Or you are pissed at cops therefore the urban blacks are good guys.

here is a little update for you.


They are all bad guys. BLM is problem. Cops are also a problem.

Anonymous 5343 July 08, 2016 3:31 PM  

They are all bad guys. BLM is problem. Cops are also a problem.

God bless you, Nate. 113 comments to get to the root of it (though many others surely tried).

This. Exactly.

Blogger residentMoron July 08, 2016 3:32 PM  

" “We saw no other option but to use our bomb robot and place a device on its extension for it to detonate where the suspect was. Other options would have exposed our officers to great danger” said Brown.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2016/07/08/chief-brown-dallas-shooting-suspect-wanted-to-kill-white-people/

So this is what is acceptable for police forces to do now? Unbelievable."


Well, it's pretty hard to interrogate a patsy when he's been exploded all over his lounge.

So, conveniently, nobody will ever know if he was a lone asshole, part of a conspiracy of black vigilantes, or a patsy for a more sinister false flag operation.

Choose whichever one you like - with no evidence one's as good as another.

Blogger Rusty Fife July 08, 2016 3:44 PM  

Nate wrote:And... this particular cop problem can even be traced back to one guy who went around promoting is hyper-aggressive mentality to police as a means to keep them safe.

Not being hep to cop life; who is the "one guy"?

Blogger VD July 08, 2016 3:50 PM  

They are all bad guys. BLM is problem. Cops are also a problem.

Did I not say that? How is this not obvious to everyone?

Blogger bob k. mando July 08, 2016 4:11 PM  

117. VD July 08, 2016 3:50 PM
Did I not say that? How is this not obvious to everyone?



MPAI and incapable of understanding dialectic.

*tips hat*

glad i could be of help.

anywho, this is also another example of the vast portion of the population which is "my team, right or wrong" that the estimable John C. Wright, Esq, claims doesn't exist.

everybody, EVERYBODY on the Black Lives Matter side is on it exclusively because it's "their team". they don't give a fuck what any particular person who got shot by a cop may have done, all they care about is the skin color.

pretty much everybody on 'thin blue line' side is also the same way. oh my's lawdy, they was so afeared for their lives, theys had to shoot that 9 year old boy!


all these assholes flipping the bird to "right wingers" because Hillary got off with NOTHING, not even a slap on the wrist? same thing. it's their team that "won" and made the other team eat shit ... and at the end of the day? that's all that matters.

Blogger Nate July 08, 2016 4:37 PM  

"Did I not say that? How is this not obvious to everyone?"

You did say it.

But again.. most people are binary thinkers... so can't just say it. You have to typeset it into a sledge hammer and smash them with it.

Blogger Were-Puppy July 08, 2016 5:00 PM  

Maybe it will help for some to review Smokey and the Bandit and Dukes of Hazzard.

Buford T. Justice, Roscoe P. Coletrane and Boss Hogg are not your buds.

Blogger Josh July 08, 2016 5:02 PM  


Did I not say that? How is this not obvious to everyone?


MPAI

Blogger Aeoli Pera July 08, 2016 5:36 PM  

To this day I do not know if the look she gave me was one of disbelief or "this guy won't fit in with us because that is how we roll".

Both interpretations would mean this is normal behavior in at least some precincts.

Blogger Chip Whitley July 08, 2016 5:39 PM  

So virtuous! I expect he's preening in anticipation of all the likes and retweets from noble police officers ever so grateful for his support.

Vox you pulled a Ben Shapiro and you're rightfully getting flack for it. You picked the worst time to seemingly side with SJWs even if that wasn't your intention.

Anonymous BGKB July 08, 2016 5:46 PM  

Update the real cop conversation was more than just "wide nose" as liberal sources are giving. https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/07/08/the-curious-case-of-philando-castile-falcon-heights-mn-police-shooting/

"“I’m going to stop a car,” the officer says on the recording. “I’m going to check IDs. I have reason to pull it over.”

“The two occupants just look like people that were involved in a robbery,” the officer says. “The driver looks more like one of our suspects, just ‘cause of the wide set nose,” the officer continues."

Blogger bob k. mando July 08, 2016 6:19 PM  

123. Chip Whitley July 08, 2016 5:39 PM
Vox you pulled a Ben Shapiro and you're rightfully getting flack for it. You picked the worst time to seemingly side with SJWs even if that wasn't your intention.



you are the exact person that Vox created the term "cuckservative" to describe. you'd sacrifice any principal and every law in your quest to be considered socially acceptable.

didn't you know that Vox invented the term?

oh, then you might be an ignorant dumbfuck who's in WAY over his head here.

Anonymous Mr. Rational July 08, 2016 6:32 PM  

tz wrote:Ferguson wasn't more safe because of the police, the police were merely an extortion gang.
When the Section Ape moved in and destroyed the tax base while expenses soared, the city was put in an untenable position.  Tickets were one of the few sources of revenue remaining.

Blacks ruin everything.

Blogger VD July 08, 2016 6:45 PM  

Vox you pulled a Ben Shapiro and you're rightfully getting flack for it. You picked the worst time to seemingly side with SJWs even if that wasn't your intention.

I have been consistent for more than ten years. I didn't pick a time at all.

It's at times like these that I understand why the global elite are so willing to kill most of the human race. It is very difficult to hold on to the notion of human dignity and value when so many people are so obviously retarded.

Then I remind myself that Jesus Christ was willing to die for them even though he quite clearly could barely stand to be around them for long.

Blogger Human Animal July 08, 2016 7:01 PM  

Pippen: So who's side are you on?

Treebeard says: I am on nobody's side, because no one is on my side, little orc. Nobody cares for the woods anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F9R5gT9DAU

Anonymous Mr. Rational July 08, 2016 7:50 PM  

Zen Trader wrote:your solution, to “drop their military style affectations,” is utterly ineffective as this isn’t the source of the conflict, it’s an adaptation to it.
This.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 08, 2016 11:47 PM  

Mr. Rational wrote:Zen Trader wrote:your solution, to “drop their military style affectations,” is utterly ineffective as this isn’t the source of the conflict, it’s an adaptation to it.

It is strategically and tactically the wrong adaptation to the conflict.

The point, in 4G war is to recruit the sympathies and support of the general populace. Setting out to tell the populace that you are a dangerous bad-ass killer doesn't garner their support. Meeting every situation, no matter how minor, with overwhelming firepower may be how you cow an occupied populace ( although, how did that work in Iran and Afghanistan BTW), but it is not how you recruit supporters.

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