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Sunday, July 03, 2016

Mailvox: SJW convergence at Baen?

A new anthology would not appear to bode well for the future of right-wing authors at Baen Books who are not named "John" or "Larry":
I finished the anthology SHATTERED SHIELDS. Supposedly a "military fantasy" anthology though there was precious little military anything about it. Two stories blatantly homosexual. Robin Wayne Bailey has a spunky warrior women sorceress who is also a lesbian.

James L. Sutter had a story of an "elite" legion of 100 pairs of homosexual lovers who fight as pairs in battles. Total bullshit on the fighting.... A Jennifer Brozek co-edited the anthology. An overweight red head from her picture. Edited a book called CHICKS DIG GAMING, a non-fiction book on how females love gaming. Ever hear of her before? She also wrote a Valdemar story for one of antholgies of stories set in Mercedes Lackey's horse world.

I have no idea who Bryan Thomas Schmidt is.

Take home point: convergence is taking place at Baen. SJWs are infiltrating there. Nowhere is safe with the big publishers. I notice women seem to like the anthology at Goodreads. Some of this stuff manages to make Joe Abercrombie look good in comparison.
I was wondering how long it would take SJWs to go after military science fiction once Kameron Hurley won the Hugo for her ahistorical and risibly stupid blog post "We Have Always Fought". After all, there is nothing to stop them from turning Mil-SF into converged Romance the way they did to science fiction proper, especially in the era of She-Rangers and infantrymen in red heels. Now we know. At least the Sacred Band of Thebes really existed, although I find it moderately amusing that they now appear in practically every historical fantasy for either bathetic or virtue-signaling purposes.

Baen has always been uniquely at risk of SJW entryism for two reasons. One, it is 25-percent owned by Tor Books. Two, many of its authors are libertarians who are fairly sound on the economic and political fronts, but are more than a little prone to virtue-signaling on the cultural side. It's one thing to have the occasional gay character - but when you have more gay characters than Catholics or Baptists appearing in your work, it's readily apparent that you are, at best, virtue-signaling for the SJWs.

And when you make a point of bragging about how your protagonists are diverse in one way or another, well, it's not exactly hard to predict which way you're going to bend when the cultural winds blow. Or the road you're going to walk in the future.
aliceination @frumiouslyalice
@saladinahmed just finished your book! excited for the next one but wondering - any chance of some more explicitly lgbt+ chars in future?

Saladin Ahmed ‏@saladinahmed
yes. A 100% chance.

Despite what many SJWs think, Baen is not actually on our side, rather, Baen is the No Man's Land between the SJW and the Right. I suspect we'll know Baen has fully converged when it abandons its garish trademark covers in favor of the washed-out faux literary style favored by Tor. Not that there is anything right about one or wrong about the other, but SJWs always have the need to let everyone know they have taken control, and that would be the most public way of making it clear to all and sundry.

Anyhow, should Baen eventually go the way of its big brother, Castalia will be here to assist any of its authors who prefer to align with the Alt and Traditional Rights rather than with the cultural Marxists.

The minor hubbub over Judith Merril and the long, sordid history of the Left's baleful influence in science fiction makes it clear what a unique opportunity is being presented today by the confluence of technology and events. No wonder they call us Nazis. No wonder they are terrified.

They should be.

Labels: , ,

62 Comments:

Blogger weka July 03, 2016 6:18 AM  

Kratman has already written the definitive gay and women mil sf.
This is convergence. Baen is resting on Ringo, Weber and Williamson... and Larry. Those guys sell. Their older midlisters, such as Flint, are tiring, and the newbies are entryists.

Blogger JDC July 03, 2016 6:36 AM  

Any chance of some more explicitly lgbt+ chars in future?

Yes, a 100% chance. There will be blanket party administered to a young corporal who decided it was a good idea to wear pumps and a pink scarf during a training exercise.

Anonymous Kiki Klank July 03, 2016 6:37 AM  

Could you link to an example of garish book cover and an example of a washed-out faux literary style book cover?

Anonymous trk July 03, 2016 6:40 AM  

If Baen was smart they would team up w Doritos and Subaru to sponsor some FIERCE fat, I meant body positive, lesbian Space wars.

Blogger JACIII July 03, 2016 6:47 AM  

Damn. Baen's website was reliably the goto place for hunting a decent read.

The upside is there will be endless apportunities for comedic entertainment from the gurls at Baen.

Blogger Aeoli Pera July 03, 2016 7:00 AM  

Hey now, Joe Abercrombie is a very good storyteller. Sure, the stories he tells are shit because nihilism, but he tells shit stories with great craftsmanship.

Anonymous Steve July 03, 2016 7:11 AM  

So if I understand correctly:

Good writing means not being able to work out the sex of the characters from their dialogue and behaviour, according to Michael Jackson impersonator Jim C. Hines.

But good writing also means you must be told all about the bizarre niche sexualities of the characters, according to lazy-eyed kebab merchant Saladin Ahmed.

Makes sense.

It's one thing to have the occasional gay character - but when you have more gay characters than Catholics or Baptists appearing in your work, it's readily apparent that you are, at best, virtue-signaling for the SJWs.

This is the thing. I don't mind gays appearing in fiction. They're a part of the human experience, always have been and always will be.

But when you go down the DOCTOR WHO route of cramming in as many gratuitous references to bum banditry as possible - usually delivered with a FUCK YOU, DAD! smirk - then it detracts from the story.

If you're gonna write a story that's chock-full of pangendered handicapable goldfishsexuals, then there needs to be a good reason for it within the internal logic of your narrative. If your spacepersons JUST SO HAPPEN to also all be 500 lb polyamorous eyebrow-cheeked badgerfuckers, then you have almost certainly failed as a writer.

Because good writing is verisimilitudinous. We suspend our disbelief at Harry Dresden being a wizard because Harry behaves like a real character who is a wizard might. He's not a cardboard cutout intended to represent some inane sociopolitical shibboleth.

So FOREVER WAR envisoned a far-flung future full of mincing poofters and bulldog-featured muff-gnashers because it was mandated by the authorities for population control. FOREVER WAR is good writing.

IF YOU WERE AN ALL YOU CAN EAT BUFFET, MY LOVE was terrible writing, because it contained cyphers instead of recognisably human characters.

Anonymous Stiggins July 03, 2016 7:11 AM  

This is overly paranoid and downright dangerous. They published ONE anthology with prominent LGBT themes, compared with truckloads of works by libertarian and/or christian authors that are overflowing with right wing themes.
Articles such as this one only serve to prove claim of SJWs that puppies simply want women and minorities to stay away from SFF. This post of Vox's will be oft used by them as potent ammo for their future campaigns, mark my word.

Blogger Human Animal July 03, 2016 7:22 AM  

story of an "elite" legion of 100 pairs of homosexual lovers who fight as pairs in battles
That could be Hard Fantasy or Soft Fantasy, depending on details about olive oil.

Re: Steve

Good writing means not being able to work out the sex of the characters from their dialogue and behaviour...

But good writing also means you must be told all about the bizarre niche sexualities of the characters...


It makes a lot more sense if you come out of the tabletop fantasy/sci fi culture. The characters are often chess pieces, with personalities painted onto them. SJW's love it.

Blogger Shimshon July 03, 2016 7:26 AM  

I enjoyed various of Arthur C. Clarke's stories when I was younger, but even in my Blue Pill days, his portrayal of women and relationships grated. I don't remember much buggery though, thankfully.

Anonymous Red Pike July 03, 2016 7:27 AM  

@#10 'They published ONE anthology with prominent LGBT themes, compared with truckloads of works by libertarian and/or christian authors that are overflowing with right wing themes.'

It starts with one. Don't let them in. Not even once.

Blogger Human Animal July 03, 2016 7:28 AM  

This post of Vox's will be oft used by them as potent ammo for their future campaigns, mark my word.
Do VD opponents quote him any more? I thought they just hissed and made the sign of the evil eye.

Anonymous Steve July 03, 2016 7:31 AM  

It makes a lot more sense if you come out of the tabletop fantasy/sci fi culture.

I never understood the appeal of Warhammer and all that. I thought the little painted figures were pretty cool, but spending hours and hours reading telephone-book-sized rules and hanging around with acne-ridden geeks who smell like Lynx Africa and crusty socks?

No thanks. As a teenager I was too busy trying to get off with girls. Mostly failing, but you've gotta be in it to win it.

It does seem that the people who are most obsessed with sexuality are the ones who aren't getting much.

Anonymous Steve July 03, 2016 7:34 AM  

Shimshon - Arthur C. Clarke was a weirdo and his books are autistic.

I liked them too BTW. (Apart from CHILDHOOD'S END, which was utterly horrible). He had a great imagination for grand engineering projects and a subtle sense of humour.

But his characters were less human than HAL 9000.

Blogger Cataline Sergius July 03, 2016 7:40 AM  

Cataline's first law in action again: Libertarian Media Will Always Be Subverted by SJWs

Baen is in publishing and that attracts SJWs like rats to a rotting corpse.

I am willing to bet that even Castalia has them sniffing and nibbling around it's edges.

Baen's been fighting that battle for a while. I know that Jim Baen himself was always having to fight off that contagion. He fired the submissions editor that bounced John Ringo's first novel for just that reason.

But I think Baen's biggest problem is the ghost of Robert Heinlein and all of the baggage that comes with his later novels.

If the Heinlein had had the good sense to die after the Moon is a Harsh Mistress, his literay legacy would have been secure.

Blogger VD July 03, 2016 7:40 AM  

This is overly paranoid and downright dangerous.

I am dangerous, Stig-gins. And it's not paranoia when they actually are out to get you. Or, in this case, Baen.

They published ONE anthology with prominent LGBT themes, compared with truckloads of works by libertarian and/or christian authors that are overflowing with right wing themes.

You appear to have missed the point about the fact that said libertarian authors are observably squishy on the cultural war front. More importantly, entryism generally starts with a single point of entry.

Articles such as this one only serve to prove claim of SJWs that puppies simply want women and minorities to stay away from SFF. This post of Vox's will be oft used by them as potent ammo for their future campaigns, mark my word.

First, you appear to be confusing me with someone who gives a damn. Second, I am a minority, so the claim is obviously stupid. Third, it doesn't matter what they think, say, or do. We are going to FoxNews them into oblivion regardless.

Blogger McChuck July 03, 2016 7:41 AM  

1. "Shattered Shields" is already two years old. It's not exactly news. And yeah, it wasn't the best thing I've ever read, but it's better than any of the "Best of SFF 20xx" anthologies. Not that that's really saying a lot. If you want something with more red meat, read their "Best of Military and Adventure" anthologies - they're only on the second. You also get to vote for your favorite story in this year's book, and that writer gets a bonus.

2. Baen has its enormous market niche principally because they are apolitical. They publish books by absolutely anyone, of any political persuasion, with the sole criteria of it being a good read, and likely to sell. Eric Flint is a card-carrying communist, for Pete's sake.

You're right. Baen isn't a right-wing organization. They're more like the Fox News of the publishing world. They're also still growing, and taking more market share from the big guys. That just means there's still room for more to their right. So Castalia House might be compared to Drudge, Breitbart, or WND.

Blogger VD July 03, 2016 7:42 AM  

I am willing to bet that even Castalia has them sniffing and nibbling around its edges.

There appear to have been one or two such incidences. But I am not even the most extreme anti-SJW in the organization, so they get ID'd and zapped very quickly.

Blogger VD July 03, 2016 7:45 AM  

Baen isn't a right-wing organization. They're more like the Fox News of the publishing world. They're also still growing, and taking more market share from the big guys. That just means there's still room for more to their right.

Agreed. We very much want Baen to stay non-converged, to grow, and to be the middle ground. We don't view them as our competitor or our enemy in any way. We are 100 percent focused on Tor Books and displacing them as the dominant organization in science fiction and fantasy.

Blogger Aeoli Pera July 03, 2016 7:47 AM  

Stiggins wrote:This is overly paranoid and downright dangerous.

DANGEROUS :-O

See what you did? Now I have to figure out why a disingenuous concern troll appeared on a thread for this particular topic and I don't have time for it.

So are you just a basic bitch Jew, or what's your deal? Do me a solid here, I don't got time.

Blogger Aeoli Pera July 03, 2016 7:50 AM  

Nah, no Jew would unironically say "oft". Autistic then. I weep for my people.

Anonymous BitMumbler July 03, 2016 7:50 AM  

James L. Sutter had a story of an "elite" legion of 100 pairs of homosexual lovers who fight as pairs in battles.

So they were like a living biological warfare division? Neat!

Blogger JDC July 03, 2016 7:57 AM  

Breaking News: Using the phrase, "brothers and sisters," marginalizes some, and therefore is verboten!

Gender Non-Conforming Concern

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 03, 2016 8:01 AM  

The SJWs are going to ride the "Rules for Radicals" like Slim Pickens rode the bomb,
straight to oblivion.

Passing gay scifi off as more than niche is a brand killer. Hint, if GoT has to cut back on the Silicon Sallies of Westeros and Trueblood has to drop the gayness level of all the sex down several notches that is a neon sign saying "Dangerous creeps dead ahead your ratings may suffer."

Blogger JACIII July 03, 2016 8:01 AM  

VD, You can't FoxNews someone without foxes:

link text

Shouldn't there be some Evil Spokesbabes around here somewhere?

Blogger Orville July 03, 2016 8:29 AM  

Hey, what's the problem? This is only reflecting back today's military society where SecDef Ass Carter now allows Pvt Pyle to go full tranny.


Best Tools For Men

Anonymous Spinrad's Agent contact July 03, 2016 8:40 AM  

Where do the SJWs go after they've mined the LGBT vein to death? Pedos going into battle with their underage lovers?

Anonymous Godfrey July 03, 2016 8:58 AM  

There is little in modern literature you can read that doesn't mention homosexuality or some other narcissistic psychological disorder. And you'll seldom if ever find anything that mentions a Christian in a positive light.

Anonymous Bz July 03, 2016 9:04 AM  

Baen may figure themselves neutral, but we've seen how that ends too many times before. Conquest's Second Law.

Blogger Chris Mallory July 03, 2016 9:07 AM  

Baen just put out an anthology set in Ringo's Black Tide world, "Black Tide Rising".

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FIHDTFM/ref=oh_aui_d_detailpage_o00_?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It was a mixed bag, some good stories and a couple of SJW pieces of crap.
"A collection of all-original stories set in the Black Tide Rising series of novels created by multiple New York Times best-selling author John Ringo Stories by John Ringo, Eric Flint, John Scalzi & Dave Klecha, Sarah A. Hoyt, Jody Lynn Nye, Michael Z. Williamson and more."

Flint's piece was a little diverse, but overall a good story.

Scalzi's was a piece of dung with him writing a Mary Sue who is incompetent, clumsy and sure to die.

I remember not liking Hoyt's, but it didn't make enough of an impression for me to remember anything about it other than I didn't like it.

Williamson's story was good. Massa's "Battle of the BERTS" was good, even though it had a female warrior. The cheerleader story was another good story in the book.

Anonymous kfg July 03, 2016 9:21 AM  

"An overweight red head . . ."

Fat is the new skinny. Morbidly obese is the new overweight.

Blogger Orville July 03, 2016 9:27 AM  

Yeah, a female version of Baron Harkonnen

Blogger VD July 03, 2016 9:40 AM  

While most of the stories were a tribute to John Ringo's world, two were not. One was so off I doubt the author read any of the books. I certainly stopped reading.

Wonder who wrote that one....

Blogger Atomic Agent 13 July 03, 2016 9:46 AM  

We are 100 percent focused on Tor Books and displacing them as the dominant organization in science fiction and fantasy.

Based on what I've observed over the past few years at this blog that could be a distinct possibility. SJW writers will eventually discover that the Hugos were just a sampling.

Blogger Atomic Agent 13 July 03, 2016 9:48 AM  

Someday a really cool shared world such as the Thieve's World series would be nice to see at Castalia House.

Blogger Worlds Edge July 03, 2016 9:58 AM  

Could this be some sort of transitional phase cover?

http://imgur.com/f2PKPsa


Washed out literary style, but subject matter straight out of Lollipop Chainsaw.

Blogger 1337kestrel July 03, 2016 10:36 AM  

Speaking of covers... I used to find good books by looking for plain green hardcovers with horizontal red bars at the top of the spine.

Anonymous BGKB July 03, 2016 10:52 AM  

story of an "elite" legion of 100 pairs of homosexual lovers who fight as pairs in battles

That's why Ikea and Pier One Imports stopped having black Friday sales.

So they were like a living biological warfare division? Neat!

There is a risk that if ZIKA gets into the gay community, that they down low brothers will be doing Darwin's work.

Anonymous BGKB July 03, 2016 10:59 AM  

When Kratman was talking about Baen's Bar I couldn't help but tease him about seeing " story of Kinzel, an inept wizard with a love of cats, a thirst for justice, and a staff of true power"

OT: http://www.unz.com/isteve/nyt-on-austria-revote-dont-mention-the-vote-fraud-do-mention-the-nazis/

Anonymous Sma July 03, 2016 11:09 AM  

Vox, too much of your tiny niche market share going to Baen?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother July 03, 2016 11:11 AM  

If Baen is full of Libertarians, expect convergence. Libertarians are cultural and social morons.

Blogger VD July 03, 2016 11:30 AM  

Vox, too much of your tiny niche market share going to Baen?

You have a very weird view of the world if that's your interpretation of this post. We don't begrudge Baen of anything. We quite like Baen the way it was and would like it to stay that way.

Blogger Cluebat Vanexodar July 03, 2016 12:26 PM  

I would buy the Man-Kzin hardcover anthologies. Be nice to see some authors cross over from Baen. Weber would also be a good get.

Blogger Were-Puppy July 03, 2016 12:32 PM  

@24 JACIII
Shouldn't there be some Evil Spokesbabes around here somewhere?
---

Only ones I've seen lately are popping up at info wars

Blogger Were-Puppy July 03, 2016 12:43 PM  

@30 kfg
"An overweight red head . . ."

Fat is the new skinny. Morbidly obese is the new overweight.
---

This is hilarious - fat people could be a new food supply - about 1:40 - but the entire thing is funny.
https://youtu.be/H9q0977qEfk

OpenID crazdmadman July 03, 2016 12:50 PM  

Brian Thomas Schmidt has admitted on a couple of podcasts that he purposefully selects stories based on the demographic of the author. He virtue signals quite a bit since he got smacked around a few years back for calling for "civility" after he made a stupid call for "third world authors" (or something like that) for an anthology and he got crucified for being a white guy talking down to brown people by offering to publish their work, or something.

Blogger Michael Maier July 03, 2016 2:23 PM  

21. BitMumbler July 03, 2016 7:50 AM
James L. Sutter had a story of an "elite" legion of 100 pairs of homosexual lovers who fight as pairs in battles.

So they were like a living biological warfare division? Neat!


You know, I don't think I have ever had anyone dispute that male homosexuality is a biologically-filthy lifestyle that ravages its members' health.

It's almost like they think the bathwater matters more than the baby.

Blogger Michael Maier July 03, 2016 2:31 PM  

This is kind of a bummer. My copy of SHATTERED SHIELDS is yet unread and I have been itching to read lately.

Anonymous Steve July 03, 2016 6:34 PM  

I couldn't help but tease him about seeing " story of Kinzel, an inept wizard with a love of cats, a thirst for justice, and a staff of true power"

There's nothing wrong with a man loving cats. ^..^

Anonymous Wyrd July 03, 2016 11:48 PM  

There's nothing wrong with a man loving cats. ^..^

I...

I got nothing.

Blogger Tom Kratman July 04, 2016 9:43 AM  

One tends to doubt Toni is letting the SJWs in, any more than Flint indicated a hard left turn, or I was the signal for a hard right turn. More likely, she found a few books she thought would sell, had an opening in the schedule, and gave them a shot. If so, it's a long shot because Baen's market may read something leftish despite that, but not because of it.

No matter, I'll see her this weekend in Chattanooga and may ask about it.

Blogger Zeke OF Confettii July 04, 2016 11:47 AM  

Amen.

Blogger VD July 04, 2016 12:21 PM  

One tends to doubt Toni is letting the SJWs in, any more than Flint indicated a hard left turn, or I was the signal for a hard right turn.

I'm certain that she isn't doing so deliberately. Most people don't; they only find out that they did after the fact, when it is too late. I don't think Tom Doherty did it deliberately either, and yet, look at Tor these days....

Blogger Tom Kratman July 04, 2016 3:02 PM  

TOR's big enough that Tom needs a staff, and one that's too large for him to control directly and completely. Plus his instincts and inclinations were always at least liberal. Baen's small enough for Toni to oversee everything and she has enough drive and energy to do so. And Toni is NOT liberal, not a bit.

Not saying it's impossible. Saying I'd put money on Toni and not on convergence.

Blogger Tom Kratman July 04, 2016 3:20 PM  

"But I think Baen's biggest problem is the ghost of Robert Heinlein and all of the baggage that comes with his later novels."

Jim and I were having dinner about a month or so before he died. The subject of Heinlein came up. Jim said, "Everything Robert Heinlein thought or said or wrote about sex was _wrong_."

Based on the bio, Heinlein was apparently kind of a perv before being a perv was cool.

Blogger Tom Kratman July 04, 2016 3:22 PM  

"There's nothing wrong with a man loving cats."

If one likes women, one really has to like cats, who are, after all, just tiny women in fur coats, fickle, snobbish, cruel vicious...you get the idea.

Blogger Tom Kratman July 04, 2016 3:25 PM  

"Eric Flint is a card-carrying communist, for Pete's sake."

Eric corrected me on this notion once, to paraphrase: "Be fucking serious; I was a 60s radical. I never carried a card because carrying a card was a guarantee of a police-administered beating and a trip to jail."

Not surprisingly, Vox brings out the worst in Eric, indeed, makes him much, MUCH worse than he really is. He's the most thoroughly decent commie that ever lived.

Blogger VD July 04, 2016 3:35 PM  

Not surprisingly, Vox brings out the worst in Eric, indeed, makes him much, MUCH worse than he really is. He's the most thoroughly decent commie that ever lived.

That well may be; I understand most of his fellow Baen authors generally like him. But his posts after the Hugos were so blitheringly stupid, so astonishingly ignorant with regards to economics and philosophy and simple common sense alike, that I simply didn't see any need to respond to them.

His grasp of his own ideology is feeble. I studied under the sort of left-wing intellectuals he parrots without understanding. I don't have much sympathy for morons who can get themselves worked up into a froth because someone else who has nothing to do with them did something somewhere.

Blogger Tom Kratman July 04, 2016 3:46 PM  

His reactions surprised me, too. Ordinarily, he's nothing like that, hence my, "Brings out the worst," comment.

By the way, though he reveres Lenin he's actually mostly Trot, which is somewhat different.

Blogger VD July 04, 2016 4:02 PM  

His reactions surprised me, too. Ordinarily, he's nothing like that, hence my, "Brings out the worst," comment.

Even the most civil Leftist's mask always slips, sooner or later.

Blogger Tom Kratman July 04, 2016 4:07 PM  

I don't know that it's a mask. I think you just sent/send him apoplectic. It's sort of the obverse of what happens to most men in the presence of a beautiful woman; their IQ roughly halves.

Shame, too, since I'm rather fond of the both of you.

Blogger Patriotic Canadian July 06, 2016 8:06 PM  

He did. It's actually one of my favorites. And from what little I know it seemed very plausible. No super human woman like ringo and weber have written. For the record I liked those stories too but some of their female characters seem less than likely.

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