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Wednesday, August 03, 2016

An intellectual empire sans clothes

Steve Sailer explains why Donald Trump is simultaneously accused of stupidity due to his verbal simplicity even as he punctures the absurd pieties of the media Narrative:
Seven hundred years ago an English friar named William of Ockham gave his name to the traditional Western prejudice that the simplest feasible explanation is most likely to be true.

Six and a half centuries later we went to the moon.

Lately, however, we haven’t really felt all that inclined to figure out how the world works. It’s more important to demonstrate our mastery of socially preferred locutions.

For example, one pressing public-policy question of the day is: What are the main causes of Muslim terrorism? Now, an Ockhamite might surmise that one useful answer is:

Muslims.

But the respectable answer in 2016 isn’t supposed to be anything that blunt. In particular, any acceptable explanation must include the six-syllable word “Islamophobia.”

Logically, Islamophobia sounds like it would be an effect of Islamic terrorism rather than a cause.

But logic hasn’t been the goal in 21st-century America. Status is. Repeating the word “Islamophobia” demonstrates that you have been to college, or at least that you watch talking heads on TV who have been to college.

And that’s what really counts.

In summary, Trump has been able to galvanize American politics by telling so many unfashionable truths because the reigning dogmas of our day are smart in form yet stupid in content.
It's more than a bit ironic that someone so famous for exaggerating should prove to be more fundamentally truthful than all the fact-checkers and media pedants who scrupulously report that which is technically accurate in order to mislead and deceive.

But no nation is ever likely to suicide itself, as the American nation has done, without being told, and accepting, many lies.

We live in a society that is every bit as dishonest with itself as the Soviet Union ever was. The USA is now the Evil Empire, and like its predecessor, it will collapse in disarray due to the increasing weight of those lies.

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157 Comments:

Blogger Rek. August 03, 2016 4:52 AM  

A Trump presidency would be an encouraging sign for European Rights.

Blogger residentMoron August 03, 2016 4:54 AM  

"I’ve always felt that a lot of modern art is a con, and that the most successful painters are often better salesmen and promoters than they are artists."


Trump, in turn, explains Scalzi.


Blogger Jew613 August 03, 2016 5:07 AM  

The depth of the lies necessary for the narrative to continue is getting too great. A small lie can be sustained but these massive obvious lies cant go on. I expect the MSM to destroy themselves as they become ever more desperate to sustain the narrative.

Anonymous Dyskord August 03, 2016 5:21 AM  

The fact is that despite the laundry list of Hillary Clinton's lies, malfeasance, corruption and incompetance she is still the favourite for POTUS.
The MSM, their owners and every cockroach politician enriched by the donor class are pushing everything they have into this election cycle because of what it represents.
It represents not the truth but how much of a known lie the American people are willing to accept.
If Hillary despite her complete ineligability can become President of the United States then they have Carte Blanche to lie, cheat, swindle and mismanage with impugnity.

Blogger Shimshon August 03, 2016 5:29 AM  

To be fair to Scalzi, his lawn is likely bigger than Trump's penthouse apartment.

Blogger Leo Little Book in Shenzhen August 03, 2016 5:29 AM  

Yep.

Let's not mention what Foucault is doing while he's naked.

Blogger residentMoron August 03, 2016 5:29 AM  

"lie, cheat, swindle and mismanage with impugnity"

They do indeed impugn for political gain.

But impunity is another thing altogether. I'm quite sure they think they have it.

I'm not so sure they really do.

In great part that is up to us.

Blogger The Kurgan August 03, 2016 5:34 AM  

The brilliant online short work "Addicted to Distraction" explains the essentially diabolical media better than anything I have read in a long time.

Truly this world is the domain of the Father of Lies.

Blogger Shimshon August 03, 2016 5:35 AM  

Is it just me or does the left sound desperate? Obama's tantrum yesterday? Hollande?! You'd think Jonah "the French are cheese eating surrender monkeys" Goldberg (yes, I know he didn't coin the phrase) would get a clue. Yes, it's easy to get mad at such outlandish rhetoric. But that's all it is, rhetoric, intended to demoralize Trump supporters.

Anonymous Millenium August 03, 2016 5:59 AM  

Likewise I have never understood the left's cheering when islamic violence is not seemingly inspired by the islamic state, as if it somehow vindicates instead of condemning islam.

Blogger Leo Little Book in Shenzhen August 03, 2016 6:09 AM  

Hell has open borders.

Anonymous SciVo August 03, 2016 6:15 AM  

The Japanese are attempting stimulus spending again. Sure that has a long history of failure, but this time is different, because.

Anonymous Steve August 03, 2016 6:26 AM  

It's a good article by Sailer, not least because it confirms my prejudices about art.

I've always thought art, architecture and literature are important for a number of reasons, one of those being that they serve as a proxy psychological health check.

There's something fundamentally wrong with people who pretend to admire dead cow sculpture, deliberately unattractive asymmetric architecture, or PoMo books in the spirit of "The Gallant Gallstone". This is the cultural equivalent of yellowing sclera or rattling breath. A symptom of sickness and decline.

Trump - a plutocrat with plebian tastes - is refreshingly unafflicted by postmodernism. He likes beautiful women and beautiful places. His decor preferences may run to the gaudier, more gilded end of the spectrum, but there's nothing ugly in the environments Trump creates.

Is it a coincidence that he's also psychologically healthy and robust? I don't believe so.

Anonymous stress management August 03, 2016 6:27 AM  

It is literally the judaising of American culture, law, ethics, etc. The talmudic or pharisaical tradition has been since ancient times (Is. 5:20-21, Matt. 23) a continual splitting, redefining, shading, twisting, and even reversing of truth and reality as a matter of intellectual pride.

The prophets and Jesus himself spoke clearly on this: straining at gnats while swallowing camels, obeying the letter while violating the spirit, putting good for evil and evil for good, and so forth. Compare that to the modern American style, and marvel at the foreign pattern that has been stamped on its culture.

Trump as candidate represents the older, plainer-spoken American way, resurrected in the midst of all this and opposing it. It has been subtly mocked as 'flyover', 'rube', 'hick', 'inbred' for much longer than Trump has been around, by a class of people for whom intellectual sophistry is the highest art.

As usual, there's nothing new under the sun. We just get to repeat it for fun.

Blogger Whisker biscuit August 03, 2016 6:29 AM  

For a good chuckle, head over to Meg Whitman's Farcebook page for a wordy diatribe on why she is voting for Saddlebags over Trump.

Women ruin everything.

Anonymous hardscrabble farmer August 03, 2016 6:32 AM  

The single most important trait we have tried to develop in our children is truthfulness. Unlike natural beauty or athleticism which are natural born, veracity can be taught. It is a gift throughout life to be known as honest and honorable and its rewards are almost incalculable. Once lost, however, a reputation for honesty cannot be regained for any amount of money, nor can the feelings one has about their own character. It may seem archaic, but I have seen with my own two eyes the rewards that come with a sterling reputation and think that of all the gifts we have ever bestowed upon our children, none is more important than that single aspect of their character, and it is the one which fills us with greatest pride because it is a the result of their inner self making daily choices to do what is right.

Anonymous Sazerac August 03, 2016 6:33 AM  

@3

The lies are getting so big they are now trying to censure all opposing views.

Imagine our quickly our societies would change if we had glasnost with no repercussions. The burrow leftist rabbits have created for themselves on facebook, the media, government and workplaces would be churned up pretty quickly.

Blogger Stilicho August 03, 2016 6:36 AM  

First, we kill all of the globalists...

Anonymous Anonymous August 03, 2016 6:45 AM  

Soviets sort of collapsed due to grain price subsidy manipulation.
I read this while listening to Lazerhawk vaporwave stuff and I gotta say: truth is truth.
Dosen't mean people sont have to fight to the death over that issue regularlly but there always seems to be folks about claiming otherwise.
I suppose those fuckers have to die. They threaten the peace. All violent people must go away or die. Isn't that the law of of the village?
It takes a village.

Anonymous Steve August 03, 2016 6:48 AM  

On the PoMo affectation of appreciating ugliness: isn't Hillary Clinton the perfect political example?

She's a viscerally disgusting crook and liar who the professional poop polishers of the media insist is the flower of American womanhood.

She also looks like a Zdzislaw Beksinski painting.

Blogger residentMoron August 03, 2016 7:09 AM  

Steve, that kind of comment, and no link?

I am very disappointed.

OpenID luciussomesuch August 03, 2016 7:26 AM  

It's a quibble, but I could wish Sailer (you'd be surprised how many people have trouble spelling 'Steev') would quit trotting out Ockham's razor as if it were an obscure 'one weird trick' only he were privy to.

In important respects he probably trends nominalist anyway, which has something to do with why Auster considered him a nihilist, albeit of the higher-functioning, more civic-minded sort.

Anonymous Steve August 03, 2016 7:32 AM  

residentMoron - to be fair to Hillary, still images don't capture her full likeness.

For verisimilitude you have to imagine a leathery-lipped vagina dentata, all brown fangs and upsetting tufts of wiry hair, slavering lies into your ear.

If William Castle were still alive he could make her biopic.

Blogger Nick S August 03, 2016 7:33 AM  

@4

I don't know what the hell is wrong with people who support evil liars and thieves like Obama and Clinton. It's almost like their suffering from some bizarre form of mass Stockholm Syndrome.

Blogger Nick S August 03, 2016 7:33 AM  

they're

OpenID luciussomesuch August 03, 2016 7:39 AM  

And, since I'm feeling snooty, Cochran's quote is rather off the mark-- since Vermeer was obscure until the later 19th Century, and Dutch interiors generally don't take up a lot of wall space, any Old Master or master portraitist would make a more fitting blank-filler for a rich man's demonstration of taste than VERMEER.

I get Sailer's point, but since this is one of those essays of his that lacks the occasional really startling zinger and instead lurches on in his more quotidian halting cadence, I take exception to the insinuation (affected or not) that Trump lacks real verbal grace.

Only by transcribing his teleprompter-less stump speeches and putting them to the red pencil do they begin to technically fall apart into 'incorrectness'. In their actual delivery they are stunningly fluent orations, bounding across topics, then fluently gyrating back again with sudden dramatic force. Trump demonstrably knows where he's going with them, all the while taking stock of the crowd's mood, making light of the journalistic foils of the day, and of course effortlessly dealing with the hecklers and demonstrators.

Since Sailer can hardly post an essay without tagging his circumscribed pantheon of Wolfe (as quoted), Wodehouse, and Waugh, I'll insinuate in turn that Sailer is subtly showing a bit of his Charles Murrayesque assumed Anglophile snobbery. Granted, what kind of Anglophile can't finish a Jane Austen novel? But Steve is an odd soul.

Anonymous Steve August 03, 2016 7:49 AM  

luciussomesuch - Trump's one of the best public speakers I've ever seen.

Blogger SQT August 03, 2016 8:08 AM  

That's disappointing. I agree that women are usually wrong, but I had the misguided idea that she was smarter than that. Should've known better.

Blogger Johnny August 03, 2016 8:09 AM  

residentMoron wrote:"I’ve always felt that a lot of modern art is a con, and that the most successful painters are often better salesmen and promoters than they are artists."

Trump, in turn, explains Scalzi.



I suspect a lot of the value of art now is the tax break. Buy the painting for a million, get it appraised for ten million a few years later, donate it to a museum, and take the charitable donation as a tax break.

Anonymous Longtime Lurker August 03, 2016 8:16 AM  

A key problem: the wannabees who don't necessarily believe elite bilge, yet mimic it anyway in the hope of rising above their station and/or covering a weak sense of moral self-confidence.

Anonymous artaud August 03, 2016 8:19 AM  

While I can understand the impatience and cynicism that people like Sailer and Wolfe have about modern art, I also think they're sort of naïve about art, and I have the nagging feeling that they don't even _like_ art in the first place. They certainly haven't taken the trouble to even try to understand it.

Granted, most of it is horseshit, but as the saying goes, 90% of _anything_ is horseshit. Hirst and Tracy Emin and their ilk are all frauds, but Warhol, sorry, is a visionary. These cats probably don't know that Warhol was an expert draftsman; before getting famous, he worked as a commercial graphic artist in advertising, and did quite well. IOW, he made his work that way not because he couldn't do regular art, but because he saw something others didn't.

Pollock, by contrast, was only a mediocre draftsman, but sorry, the most important American painter of the century. (Although for my money, #2 is probably Norman Rockwell.) Joan Mitchell's stuff is luminous and breathtaking, but it'd be confusing to people who haven't taken the trouble. (This isn't virtue signaling by the way; for instance, I know very, very little about SFF, but if you guys say something is good, I'll take your word for it.)

The other thing to remember is artists often feel that you just can't do the same thing over and over, what's the point? Do you still want Barbizon School paintings? Go to the Brooklyn Museum some time. They have a fine Egyptian collection, and a lot of Barbizon-type stuff. The Egyptians actually seem fresher, more vivid and alive. Picasso may be no match for Vermeer, but he thought hard and he came up with something new.

Me, I'll confess I favor a lot of "normal" figurative art in my own collection; I have a lot of guys like Dan Witz and Stephen Namara. But take a look at the Forum Gallery website some time: Alan Magee's paintings are breathtaking in their technical mastery, but come on, it's a brilliantly rendered painting of a tube of paint, or a bunch of rusty nails. Some people may find spirit in it, or wit, but I don't.

The pendulum will probably swing back eventually to more "normal" style and technique and less bullshit.

And yes, it's a matter of record that the (((Communists))) consciously tried to undermine the West's confidence by overturning and pissing on Western standards of beauty and the sublime.

Anonymous CC August 03, 2016 8:35 AM  

Steve wrote:It's a good article by Sailer, not least because it confirms my prejudices about art.

I've always thought art, architecture and literature are important for a number of reasons, one of those being that they serve as a proxy psychological health check.

There's something fundamentally wrong with people who pretend to admire dead cow sculpture, deliberately unattractive asymmetric architecture, or PoMo books in the spirit of "The Gallant Gallstone". This is the cultural equivalent of yellowing sclera or rattling breath. A symptom of sickness and decline.

Trump - a plutocrat with plebian tastes - is refreshingly unafflicted by postmodernism. He likes beautiful women and beautiful places. His decor preferences may run to the gaudier, more gilded end of the spectrum, but there's nothing ugly in the environments Trump creates.

Is it a coincidence that he's also psychologically healthy and robust? I don't believe so.


Yeah, that impressed me too, he seems to be a man of excellent, sometimes very subtle judgement, even if his aesthetic taste might be a bit unsubtle. And I think he's 100% right on today's art. Kicking Warhol to touch was very funny to me too; Warhol and his work are really emblematic of our age: 15 minutes of fame indeed. There's a great story of how a young Warhol brought one his works to show Salvador Dali in a New York hotel. Dali micturated on it right in front of him. I believe Warhol found this rejection more flattering than Trump's.

I do find myself wondering about Trump: "Are you really the genuine article or just another puppet? Do you really mean what you say? Do you believe in the truth?" Because he does seem to recognise the Truth and live by it. For years I had really no opinion on the guy, except that he came across as very brash, sometimes clownish and according to the liberal media one the embodiments of evil captalism while providing good copy. But little vignettes like this one and other glimpses into his private life actually show him to be a very good skin when usually the exact opposite is true of political candidates. They always seem to shrink in the light.

His views on art also tells me he has good real world judgement (which I think is the most vital trait a candidate for high office can have, much more valuable than political experience). Another minor thing that impressed me was when I recently saw a video of him meeting Ali G about 10 years ago and politiely walked out on him after about 30 seconds. I would've watched that at the time, but I had forgotten about it. I remember he was one of the very few celebrities not to fall for his shtick.

https://youtu.be/PDu9CvbrnlM?t=120

And even though Trump is constantly defamed and is something of an acquired taste to boot, his good character will win voters over to him. Ultimately, White Americans do have a hunger for the Truth, even if those who have been morally inverted by our poisoned Western culture their whole lives.

But so many public figures have been revealed as frauds or massive disappointments, that you still catch yourself when you realise you're starting to hope.

I take exception to the insinuation (affected or not) that Trump lacks real verbal grace.

I also like his speaking style. Honest and smart!

Anonymous CC August 03, 2016 8:49 AM  

Johnny wrote:residentMoron wrote:"I’ve always felt that a lot of modern art is a con, and that the most successful painters are often better salesmen and promoters than they are artists."

Trump, in turn, explains Scalzi.



I suspect a lot of the value of art now is the tax break. Buy the painting for a million, get it appraised for ten million a few years later, donate it to a museum, and take the charitable donation as a tax break.


Money laundering too...

Anonymous Eric the Red August 03, 2016 8:56 AM  

Leftists and their useful idiots make endless absurd indirect linkages between supposed causation and supposed effect situated at some indeterminate point removed in space or time. These specious assumptions that something is truly affected by some indirect chain-of-causation are always improbable and unproved, and ultimately irrelevant when compared against the primacy of hierarchical natural law.

The left doesn't care how many layers of indirection they substitute for logic, as long as it supports their Holy Narrative.

Blogger Eric Guillaume Dilasser-McDowell August 03, 2016 9:19 AM  

What then for the future, Vox? Give us your honest augury: is The Donald a new Charles Martel arriving just in the nick of time or is merely he another Emperor Tongzhi, arriving too late to save the crumbling edifice from itself?

Anonymous Bz August 03, 2016 9:32 AM  

Is it mere coincidence that visual art in the 20th century has swung from skill and appreciation of beauty to (i) so-called conceptual work, often with (ii) transgressive and/or political themes, that can be (iii) financialized and tax optimized if given (iv) the stamp of approval by (v) a small set of important curators and academic critics? Once you ponder it, it fits some social theories ridiculously well. Add parentheses to suit.

Blogger James Dixon August 03, 2016 9:34 AM  

> ... is The Donald a new Charles Martel arriving just in the nick of time or is merely he another Emperor Tongzhi, arriving too late to save the crumbling edifice from itself?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDm1xD_Kwyc

Blogger Robert Divinity August 03, 2016 9:34 AM  

But no nation is ever likely to suicide itself, as the American nation has done, without being told, and accepting, many lies.

The acceptance of lies is the suicide. All governments will tell them. The intellectual decline of Americans made them easy targets.

We live in a society that is every bit as dishonest with itself as the Soviet Union ever was.

The Russian people, near the collapse of the Soviet Union, were quite aware. Americans, near the end of the United States as a functional polity, have become more gullible than ever.

The USA is now the Evil Empire, and like its predecessor, it will collapse in disarray due to the increasing weight of those lies.

It will be worse here. The Red Army ultimately refused to kill en masse fellow Russians. The corrupt globalists and communists who run the Banana Empire haven't forgotten the Red Army's patriotism and will make sure the body count is very high this time. Watch how American police continue to militarize in the near term and how the military command is staffed with minorities and communists/globalists hostile to the white masses.

Blogger Robert Divinity August 03, 2016 9:38 AM  

Is it just me or does the left sound desperate? Obama's tantrum yesterday? Hollande?! You'd think Jonah "the French are cheese eating surrender monkeys" Goldberg (yes, I know he didn't coin the phrase) would get a clue. Yes, it's easy to get mad at such outlandish rhetoric. But that's all it is, rhetoric, intended to demoralize Trump supporters.

They thought Trump would have been put away by now. When Clinton wasn't able to do it via a lackluster convention, Luegenpresse went into full court press and it still hasn't happened. He is on a glide path to win, but I also share his warning the results could be "rigged." The globalist utopians won't give up power voluntarily.

Blogger residentMoron August 03, 2016 9:39 AM  

"the most important American painter of the century"

Makes no difference what name you hang on this wall, this phrase is a tell.

Blogger praetorian August 03, 2016 9:42 AM  

The Painted Word is a great book.

Related: 'From Bauhaus to our House' by Wolfe is a great fast read about leftism, purity spirals and plebe-tier capitalists in architecture.

Anonymous andon August 03, 2016 9:45 AM  

9. Blogger Shimshon August 03, 2016 5:35 AM
Is it just me or does the left sound desperate? Obama's tantrum yesterday? Hollande?! You'd think Jonah "the French are cheese eating surrender monkeys" Goldberg (yes, I know he didn't coin the phrase) would get a clue. Yes, it's easy to get mad at such outlandish rhetoric. But that's all it is, rhetoric, intended to demoralize Trump supporters.


im afraid they'll act on it though. Current occupant pretends he is the arbiter of who is qualified for the office and urges Repubs to somehow end Trump's candidacy ("how long are you going to let this go on?")

afaik all Trump has done is insult quite a few and promise to shut down the border and limit immigration of mooslims. How does that make him unqualified?

Blogger dc.sunsets August 03, 2016 9:56 AM  

The Russian people, near the collapse of the Soviet Union, were quite aware. Americans, near the end of the United States as a functional polity, have become more gullible than ever.

I see it as more distracted than ever.

Life for the common man in the late stage USSR was unhappy due to deprivation. The common American is on antidepressants because the burden of payments for his pile of junk outweighs his enjoyment thereof.

Americans are desperately trying to NOT see the locomotives converging on their position.

This is why I believe this antebellum period will end abruptly when the change occurs. Until then it's the biggest game of chicken ever.

Anonymous Thales August 03, 2016 10:06 AM  

Great article, but to continue the meta game, as it were, it follows that reckless honesty indicates that one is "SJW proof", either through independent means or irreducibly low status. And thus like the Kierkegaard analogy, either Alexander or Diogenes -- truly free.

Anonymous CC August 03, 2016 10:14 AM  

Bz wrote:Is it mere coincidence that visual art in the 20th century has swung from skill and appreciation of beauty to (i) so-called conceptual work, often with (ii) transgressive and/or political themes, that can be (iii) financialized and tax optimized if given (iv) the stamp of approval by (v) a small set of important curators and academic critics? Once you ponder it, it fits some social theories ridiculously well. Add parentheses to suit.



Indeed, the names of the movers and shakers are very revealing, from the artists, to the critics, the collectors and museum owners...

Blogger Robert Divinity August 03, 2016 10:26 AM  

@42

Distraction and narcotics certainly have rendered the American people more gullible than ever. The Russian people widely abused vodka, though (not unlike the white heroin epidemic here), but perhaps their propaganda was less of a distraction because it was cruder.

Blogger The Other Robot August 03, 2016 10:51 AM  

I predict that as Hillary becomes less and less electable over the next couple of months, those in control will have her assassinated, blame it on Trump, and install Moochelle as their candidate.

Anonymous fop August 03, 2016 10:54 AM  

Pollock, by contrast, was only a mediocre draftsman, but sorry, the most important American painter of the century.

It's true. Without Pollack's important influence we might never have experienced the subtle power of this.

Blogger Sevron August 03, 2016 11:00 AM  

Pollock managed to deliberately recreate what every 2 year old makes on their high seat tray every meal. I suppose if you're dumb and a natural follower, you find that very impressive.

Blogger Escoffier August 03, 2016 11:02 AM  

On Insty this morning I learned that Trump is doomed because he got a question wrong about Crimea. I guess getting a question wrong about a foreign nation proves he can't possibly be presidential timber, right? (if he got it wrong and if the Lugenpress aren't just lying their asses off)

Anonymous artaud August 03, 2016 11:05 AM  

"It's true. Without Pollack's important influence we might never have experienced the subtle power of this."

You're missing the point. Most people make snap judgments about these things: "I like it" "I don't like it." It's infantile.

Don't have time to fully explain right now, gotta run, but put it this way: Pollock's influence is not about conceptualism or even technique (though his "drip" technique is superb, and has never been successfully imitated). It's about the deep spiritualism and oceanic quality of his work. It's about internal struggle, and what he called "energy made visible." This was rather lacking, or if present, kind of weak tea, in American art prior to his advent.

Reproductions of it don't do it justice. Next time you're in New York, spend like a full hour looking directly at say "Autumn Rhythm" or "One". Maybe then you'll get it.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 03, 2016 11:08 AM  

Propaganda is most effective when it tells people what they want to hear. It's success here is due to the circular logic of defining virtue as a false sense of moral superiority and then reinforcing people's groupthink with ataboys one one hand and Hitler labels for blasphemers.

It helps when the targets are fat, dumb and happy, staring at their iGadgets or taking another duck-faced selfie.

Self-obsession makes people the perfect marks for con artists.

Blogger Robert American August 03, 2016 11:10 AM  

It will collapse, and we will all be much better off when it collapses if we have some, more structured, organizations. See knightsofthewest.com

Anonymous Gen. Kong August 03, 2016 11:11 AM  

Robert Divinity:
It will be worse here. The Red Army ultimately refused to kill en masse fellow Russians. The corrupt globalists and communists who run the Banana Empire haven't forgotten the Red Army's patriotism and will make sure the body count is very high this time. Watch how American police continue to militarize in the near term and how the military command is staffed with minorities and communists/globalists hostile to the white masses.

Indeed. The Banana Empire's rulers have been importing hundreds of thousands of military-age males from the Ummah and the Negroland to fill the ranks of the armies which will be commanded to exterminate whites - both in the EUSSR division and here in the Kwa-banana homeland, where the Aztecs will be working under orders together with BLM. Folks forget - D'Won Mocha Messiah promised an army back in 2008. Ann Barnhardt made an apt comparison between this and the French Revolutionary armies (made up of criminals released from prisons and foreigners) employed to de-populate the province of Vendée - an act denied to this day by the regime headquartered in Paris. Barnhardt lays this at the feet of the Freemasons, but fails to admit (((who))) funds the bogus regimes and works with in concert with the Freemasons. It's entirely possible that the Freemasons are merely some of (((their))) Shabbas-Goys, just as most of the political 'leaders' like Hollande, Tony Blair, Clinton are.

Blogger The Other Robot August 03, 2016 11:13 AM  

Keep in mind that this guy was caught out sending pictures of his thinking organ to women other than his wife.

Anonymous EH August 03, 2016 11:30 AM  

Sort of on topic, here's a story that connects the 2013 NDAA legalization of USG propaganda against Americans with Reuters totally cooking its tracking poll method and erasing past results after the DNC. Quoting Breitbart
On Sunday’s Breitbart News Daily with SiriusXM host Alex Marlow, political strategist Pat Caddell outlined his charge that Reuters tampered with its own daily tracking poll to manufacture a sudden surge for Hillary Clinton.

They not only changed their formula, to put Hillary ahead. They went back and changed the results, for a week of results where Trump was ahead, and then they turned those into Hillary leads,” said Caddell. “They also erased all the former polling off the site. They didn’t tweak their procedure – they cooked it.”

“Never in my life have I seen a news organization, and a supposedly reputable poll, do something so dishonest,” Caddell continued. “What they have done is, they decided the people who said, ‘oh, I’m never for someone’ – oh, those must be Hillary votes. They used to be Trump voters.”

“They made a switch, as much as nine points, in their results from the beginning of last week, the 25th and 26th. It is, beyond doubt, the most outrageous thing,” he declared, noting that results in three- and four-way polls that include independent candidates Gary Johnson and Jill Stein were also skewed.


Every voter needs to know that they have stopped merely spinning and slanting the news and gone to coordinated conscious fraud across the whole mainstream media. Once the citizenry has taken that on board as well as they are able, then we can point out that the government's statistics are just as cooked as the media's, especially the official economic statistics.

Blogger tublecane August 03, 2016 11:36 AM  

@30-"he thought hard and he came up with something new"

No, he didn't. At least not to the extent people pretend. He was a piggybacker. But let's say for argument's sake he did. Let's also say that what came before him was stale and in need of replacement. So what? Just because it's new doesn't mean it's good.

Modernism's obsession with newness is sick. Neophilia oughtta be a psychological disorder. It's the primary reason high art has been in a rut for a century.

Blogger tublecane August 03, 2016 11:46 AM  

@50-Yeah, you're one of the elect. You "get it." No time to explain to the plebes. That's modern art in a nutshell.

I realize some people don't bother to "get," say, Shakespeare or Beethoven. They are too lazy, put a wall between themselves and that high-falutin' stuff. But can you honestly imagine on a website like this someone saying of Michelangelo, for instance, the sort of thing you've said of Pollok? No, because no one needs to be told. We know just by looking, in person or in reproductions, doesn't matter.

Why does this never occur to proponents of modern art? Why does anyone need to bother trying so hard to "get it?" Who initiated the idea that Art is only understood by six people in New York after decades of intense study? Couldn't possibly be a cover for it being shit. It does take plenty of indoctrination to believe shit is beautiful, though.

Anonymous fop August 03, 2016 11:56 AM  

Pollock's influence is not about conceptualism or even technique (though his "drip" technique is superb, and has never been successfully imitated)

Wrong. There are plenty of fakes out there. Many have to be verified by chemical analysis of the paint rather than the "drip technique".

It's about the deep spiritualism and oceanic quality of his work. It's about internal struggle, and what he called "energy made visible."

It's about a slutty, wealthy, jewish socialite who patronized an undisciplined, degenerate drunk.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 03, 2016 12:19 PM  

artaud wrote:Pollock's influence is not about conceptualism or even technique (though his "drip" technique is superb, and has never been successfully imitated). It's about the bafflegab and random adjective quality of his work. It's about masturbation, and what he called "gullible art students and most importantly buyers." This was rather lacking, or if present, kind of weak tea, in American art prior to his advent.

Reproductions of it don't do it justice. Next time you're in New York, spend like a full hour convincing yourself this shit is great looking directly at say "Putting One Over On The Art World" or "Near Random Collection of Lines And Blocks". Maybe then you'll get it.


One word:
Bouguereau

Anonymous coyote August 03, 2016 12:43 PM  

@28 thank you for your remark in re the pharisees. the (((priests))) of the temple are long overdue for another whipping.

Anonymous Spartacus xxxxx August 03, 2016 12:47 PM  

artaud wrote:"It's true. Without Pollack's important influence we might never have experienced the subtle power of this."

Pollock's influence is... about internal struggle, and what he called "energy made visible."

...spend like a full hour looking directly at say "Autumn Rhythm" or "One". Maybe then you'll get it.


Give us this day our daily break. Pollock is as fake as modern art itself. He was a creation of the same folks who brought us Progressivism and the rest. Yeah fractal. Yawn.

http://mileswmathis.com/kilmer.pdf
http://mileswmathis.com/updates.html
The $100 million 'artwork' serves as both a status symbol and a chip-
http://mileswmathis.com/launder.pdf
http://mileswmathis.com/chuckcon.pdf
http://mileswmathis.com/obey.pdf
etc.

Blogger James Dixon August 03, 2016 12:47 PM  

> Current occupant pretends he is the arbiter of who is qualified for the office

Well, has there every been someone who's a better expert on being unqualified for the office?

> It's about internal struggle, and what he called "energy made visible." This was rather lacking, or if present, kind of weak tea, in American art prior to his advent.

Yeah, right. Gobbledygook to the rescue once again.

> Reproductions of it don't do it justice. Next time you're in New York,

As if. If you want to put up $1M, you might be able to persuade me to visit New York City. Might, but probably not.

Anonymous BigGayKoranBurner August 03, 2016 1:06 PM  

I am glad I didn't bet on how soon artless would get back from running.

Six and a half centuries later we went to the moon.

50 years later affirmative action caused ""WE"" to lose the ability to make it to the space station.

"I’ve always felt that a lot of modern art is a con, Occam's razor says it started out as a way to launder money "Hey I will pay you the money I owe for the kids and cocaine by giving you millions for an ugly painting" then stupid people started bidding.

'Steev') would quit trotting out Ockham's razor as if it were an obscure 'one weird trick' only he were privy to

It will not be mentioned in publics schools under common (((core)))

I agree that women are usually wrong, but I had the misguided idea that she was smarter than that. Should've known better.

She might have been smarter 1000 gallons of liquor ago, but she was kicked off the original Watergate committee by a democrat because she was too obviously lying.

don't even_like_art in the first place. They certainly haven't taken the trouble to even try to understand it

Please I used to go out to an art museum on its one day a month free admission as an early cheap date. The first urinal placed openly on a wall in a museum is by an artist, the second by a plumber. International Guild of Realism or GTFO

is The Donald a new Charles Martel arriving just in the nick of time or is merely he another Emperor Tongzhi, arriving too late to save

Have you heard of Vlad Tepes or Augusto Pinochet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhrYY3ocQ5o

Indeed, the names of the movers and shakers are very revealing, from the artists

Just having sex with the right people makes you a mover/shaker in NYC. So provincial.

Next time you're in New York, spend like a full hour looking directly at say "Autumn Rhythm" or "One". Maybe then you'll get it.

You would be better served looking at the ground as NYC will be under water by 2015.

Blogger crand August 03, 2016 1:15 PM  

Wow! So, if America is over what's even the point of Trump winning? Just to buy some time I guess? Vox, did you move to Europe because you always thought America was over? Just curious. It's just unusual for someone with right/libertarian leanings to move to Europe which I personally find to be much more statist.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 03, 2016 1:22 PM  

crand wrote:It's just unusual for someone with right/libertarian leanings to move to Europe which I personally find to be much more statist.

Let's just say the American State intruded on Vox' life in a very personal way.

Blogger Dirk Manly August 03, 2016 1:22 PM  

@30



Joan Mitchell is a childish hack.

Don't believe me? Look for yourself:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Joan+Mitchell&num=100&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjVvIPo4KXOAhXFRiYKHW-RCSEQ_AUICCgB&biw=1355&bih=577

Blogger Dirk Manly August 03, 2016 1:22 PM  

@30



Joan Mitchell is a childish hack.

Don't believe me? Look for yourself:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Joan+Mitchell&num=100&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjVvIPo4KXOAhXFRiYKHW-RCSEQ_AUICCgB&biw=1355&bih=577

Anonymous Spartacus xxxxx August 03, 2016 1:30 PM  

Sevron wrote:Pollock managed to deliberately recreate what every 2 year old makes on their high seat tray every meal.

At 2 years old, her immense promise was already apparent. Her works from the “Ketchup & Mustard“ period series are breathtaking in their technical mastery: luminous, brilliantly rendered paintings of tubes of ketchup and mustard.

Her influence is not about conceptualism or even technique (though her "drip" technique is superb, and has never been successfully imitated). It's about the deep spiritualism and oceanic quality of her work. It's about internal struggle of a two-year-old, and what New Your art critics call "energy made visible." This was rather lacking, or if present, kind of weak tea, in American art prior to her advent as the most important American painter of the 21st Century.

Blogger Dirk Manly August 03, 2016 1:34 PM  

"And yes, it's a matter of record that the (((Communists))) consciously tried to undermine the West's confidence by overturning and pissing on Western standards of beauty and the sublime."

You should see what they did to Russia. "Socialist Realism" is, at best, awkward, stiff, stilted, and insulting.

Blogger crand August 03, 2016 1:43 PM  

I guess I'm just a bit confused by the blog. Like Vox, US foreign policy appalls me and I agree that America is not nearly as free as it used to be. Also, I agree that the demographics might in fact be the end of America, but it seems like you really hate the US (like a true European) calling it the "Evil Empire" and equating it with the evil of the Soviet Union. So, don't you want the "Evil Empire" to die? I'm just confused about why you even care about Trump winning or care about America at all since you prefer Europe and hate the "Evil Empire". I hope you hate the "Evil Empire" anyway! Man, if I really though a nation was the "Evil Empire", I'd be rooting for its total demise. I don't know. All this America hating seems like maybe you're not someone to take advice from on how to run America.

Anonymous 5343 August 03, 2016 1:50 PM  

crand wrote:I guess I'm just a bit confused by the blog. Like Vox, US foreign policy appalls me and I agree that America is not nearly as free as it used to be. Also, I agree that the demographics might in fact be the end of America, but it seems like you really hate the US (like a true European) calling it the "Evil Empire" and equating it with the evil of the Soviet Union. So, don't you want the "Evil Empire" to die? I'm just confused about why you even care about Trump winning or care about America at all since you prefer Europe and hate the "Evil Empire". I hope you hate the "Evil Empire" anyway! Man, if I really though a nation was the "Evil Empire", I'd be rooting for its total demise. I don't know. All this America hating seems like maybe you're not someone to take advice from on how to run America.

Hello? Is it not obvious the bi-factional ruling elite are not to be equated with "America"????

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 03, 2016 1:51 PM  

crand wrote:So, don't you want the "Evil Empire" to die? I'm just confused about why you even care about Trump winning or care about America at all since you prefer Europe and hate the "Evil Empire". I hope you hate the "Evil Empire" anyway! Man, if I really though a nation was the "Evil Empire", I'd be rooting for its total demise. I don't know. All this America hating seems like maybe you're not someone to take advice from on how to run America.

You seem unaware or the difference between a nation, a state, a government, and elite, an administration, and a polity.
Study, read for a while, and if you don't understand, ask instead of lashing out.
Because you do NOT understand.

Blogger James Dixon August 03, 2016 1:52 PM  

> So, if America is over what's even the point of Trump winning? Just to buy some time I guess?

By George, I believe he has it.

> ...but it seems like you really hate the US...

He hates the government, not the people. Much as we used to hate the Soviet Union, but not the Russian people.

Blogger crand August 03, 2016 1:55 PM  

To some degree, although not in perfect correlation, people get the government they deserve, so if this is the "Evil Empire" then, I find it hard to believe the people are so above it all. I completely agree that the elites and globalists are a separate breed in many ways, but they're still a close related breed to the rest of the country. So, you can't say the government is total evil and that you care about the country. Vox has indeed become European. I always hear this kind of hate from Euros. We're evil, we're barbarian, we're shit. Yeah, yeah. We have big problems and I'm certainly aware of that but what is being said here means the United States should die. So, go root for Hillary!

Blogger crand August 03, 2016 1:59 PM  

> So, if America is over what's even the point of Trump winning? Just to buy some time I guess?

By George, I believe he has it.

The bitter sarcasm of the all-knowing. So, if we're just buying time shouldn't we just instead the truth hit now and let the country die? I mean, I think the US dollar will collapse sometime in the next 10-15 years, if not sooner, but if we're so evil, don't you want the dollar to collapse now and don't you want Democrats to win? I mean, if something is evil, why even bother keeping it on life support. Just chop off it's head and move on.

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 03, 2016 2:00 PM  

We live in a society that is every bit as dishonest with itself as the Soviet Union ever was.

Yes. The next step is, hopefully, to hammer this home until even my aging, Boomer, flyover, nice goy parents actually believe it.

Blogger LurkingPuppy August 03, 2016 2:11 PM  

Polynominate Lecturing Troll wrote:It's about the deep spiritualism and oceanic quality of [Pollock's] work.
Polynominate Defeatist Troll wrote:Wow! So, if America is over what's even the point of Trump winning?
I thought Vox just banned this bozo yesterday.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 03, 2016 2:12 PM  

@crand
What's your fucking point. You're obviously not here to learn. You ask questions only to castigate people you imagine disagree with you, and provide your own incorrect answers. You assign malign motives to others without bothering to find out whether they are true.
You're not even a troll, just a blustering fool who thinks he knows something.
Get your fat effeminate face back to reddit.

Anonymous Headcannon August 03, 2016 2:14 PM  

"Deep spiritualism"

Right.

"Empty shell" is more like it.

Blogger Dirk Manly August 03, 2016 2:17 PM  

@53

"Indeed. The Banana Empire's rulers have been importing hundreds of thousands of military-age males from the Ummah and the Negroland to fill the ranks of the armies which will be commanded to exterminate whites -"


Doesn't matter. The combat arms MOS ranks are over 90% white. The Dindus and Gimmedats gravitate to quartermaster corps.

This message posted from Fort Pickett, VA.

I served 4 years in Air Defense Artillery (99% white) and Infantry (95% White) battalions. Now in a CSSB (Combat Service Support Battalion) which is part of an ESG (Expeditionary Sustainment Group -- the CSS equivalent of Brigade~Division size command): Only 60% white.

The thing is, in a civil war, combat service support units like postal, water purification, dock operations, pipelines, etc. aren't make-or-break because the non-government side can literally live off of, and in, the land and community (Mao's "fish in the sea.")

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 03, 2016 2:28 PM  

[Pretentious Git] work is very [random adjective], reflecting his deep [vaguely positive meaningless noun]. Many people object that his work is meaningless and ugly, but they don't have the exquisite taste and education of us arty types. [Pretentious Git] describes his art as [capturing|synthesizing|extracting|confronting|reconceptualizing] the [hypocrisy|humor|energy|reality] of [everyday life|corrupt capitalism|society|art itself].

Unsophisticated people like you and your fellow rednecks, hicks, people without college degrees, and other mental defectives can't really understand the depth of [Pretentious Git]'s work. That's because you're stupid racist shitlords who've probably never taken it up the a**.

Blogger crand August 03, 2016 2:35 PM  

I'm not sure who you all think I am but I just started writing on this blog yesterday and I wrote the glowing Amazon review Vox posted yesterday. So, you're accusation that I'm not hear to learn is quite false and I won't "Get my [your] fat effeminate face back to reddit" because I was never there. I read the book because I loved the interview Vox did on FDR but I didn't realize until today, now that I'm reading the blog, that he is very typically European in his hatred of America. Even if you're saying he ONLY hates the government which I doubt, then shouldn't the government at least die and shouldn't we be rooting for Killary to bring about the end of America? This is a very rational question. And, I am effeminate because I'm a female so thank you very much!

Anonymous Spartacus xxxxx August 03, 2016 2:36 PM  

Dirk Manly wrote:

@30

Joan Mitchell is a childish hack.

Don't believe me? Look for yourself:


https://www.google.com/search?q=Joan+Mitchell&num=100&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjVvIPo4KXOAhXFRiYKHW-RCSEQ_AUICCgB&biw=1355&bih=577

Thanks, was not aware of this one. "Childish hack" is charitable. Any of those 'paintings' could be imitated by a mildly-psychotic, talentless child.


artaud wrote:Joan Mitchell's stuff is luminous and breathtaking, but it'd be confusing to people who haven't taken the trouble. (This isn't virtue signaling by the way;

Oh good grief. This be INTERNET. Claims can be checked.

Blogger crand August 03, 2016 2:40 PM  

I guess my main point of confusion is that when Stefan and Vox talk, it seems like they're fairly optimistic, saying America is in a VERY DANGEROUS situation, but that maybe with the courage of Trump and others, that we can save the country. Maybe that is mostly Stefan's spin on the situation and not so much Vox but I got that impression from both of them. Now that I'm here on the blog, I see Vox writing that there's no point in fighting a good fight because the fight is over. America is the Evil Empire, and just today he's writing that America is over anyway. My confusion stems from the fact that I'm new to this blog and got a very different impression of how Vox saw both America and America in the future, based on his book and his interviews with Stefan on FDR. If you can't understand this confusion, I encourage you to watch the FDR interviews and tell me if they don't contradict the tone on this blog that America is in the trash already.

Blogger James Dixon August 03, 2016 2:43 PM  

> The bitter sarcasm of the all-knowing.

Your words, not mine.

> So, if we're just buying time shouldn't we just instead the truth hit now and let the country die?

I'll settle for buying time.

Blogger James Dixon August 03, 2016 2:47 PM  

> I guess my main point of confusion is that when Stefan and Vox talk, it seems like they're fairly optimistic, saying America is in a VERY DANGEROUS situation, but that maybe with the courage of Trump and others, that we can save the country.

Why shouldn't Vox be optimistic? He's a Christian. He knows how it ends.

But being an optimistic about the possibilities doesn't mean being unrealistic about the odds. The odds are the US as a country will fail within the next 50 years and that it's at least 20 years too late to do anything about it.

Blogger LurkingPuppy August 03, 2016 2:50 PM  

crand wrote:I'm not sure who you all think I am but I just started writing on this blog yesterday and I wrote the glowing Amazon review Vox posted yesterday.
An obnoxious troll with many names has been posting here regularly. One of the tactics he/she/it/They use is defeatism. I'm sorry if I misidentified you, but as you can see, I wasn't the only one who mistook you for the troll.

crand wrote:Even if you're saying he ONLY hates the government which I doubt, then shouldn't the government at least die and shouldn't we be rooting for Killary to bring about the end of America?
(a) Trump might succeed in saving some parts of America.
(b) Trump might delay the collapse, and thus let more people prepare to survive it.
(c) Trump might allow America to break up peacefully into nations which can plausibly survive.
(d) Hillary would act in such a way that civilized populations would be forced to secede from the Union, and she would then use nuclear weapons against the American people to crush the rebellion.

Blogger crand August 03, 2016 2:53 PM  

He's stating without equivocation on this blog, even today, that there is are no "odds". That America is done. So, you're not accurately representing what he's saying here very clearly. It's totally fine if he think America is done but I'm here on this blog to find out what his opinion is. There is no doubt about America being over on this blog but it sounds optimistic on FDR. Also, it's not just that he think America is done which I have found surprising but also that, based on his own words, he should be rooting for America to be done. He is now European, so then Europe will once again rule the world (in many ways at least). That's fine if that's his opinion but that doesn't come across in his other forms of communication/media. Do you get what I"m saying?

Blogger crand August 03, 2016 2:57 PM  

(a) Trump might succeed in saving some parts of America.
(b) Trump might delay the collapse, and thus let more people prepare to survive it.
(c) Trump might allow America to break up peacefully into nations which can plausibly survive.
(d) Hillary would act in such a way that civilized populations would be forced to secede from the Union, and she would then use nuclear weapons against the American people to crush the rebellion.

Well, then all this energy and optimism over Trump is a waste of time and we shouldn't even be blogging about it. The 4 reasons for caring about Trump make no sense and the collapse will be worse the longer we delay it so if America is done, we should get on with moving on. Like that line in "Shawshank Redemption" - "You either get on dying or you get on living."

Blogger LurkingPuppy August 03, 2016 3:02 PM  

crand wrote:He's stating without equivocation on this blog, even today, that there is are no "odds". That America is done.
America will cease to exist as a single country. It will then break up into racially homogeneous nations. The process of breaking up can be reasonably peaceful, or it can be violent, or it can be outright genocidal. Trump might allow America to break up peacefully.

Blogger crand August 03, 2016 3:07 PM  

Is that Vox's view that Trump will allow America to break up peacefully? That's fine if that's his view but I don't see any evidence that Trump is much of a fan of secession. Even for Trump, secession probably seems like a pretty radical idea. Boy, it all the energy and time spent rooting for Trump is on the off chance that he might - might - allow America to peacefully break up, then this is the biggest waste of time and energy ever.

Blogger crand August 03, 2016 3:11 PM  

And, my God, even if, let's just say for the sake of argument, Trump would allow secession, are all these secessionists just going to come out by the millions over the next few years. Secession is still considered a very radical idea by some libertarians and not just by cuckservatives but by the vast majority of people on the right. Boy, I know this is a partly sci-fi blog here and I know Trump is setting a lot of forces into motion, but we're really getting into fantasy land now. What a waste of time it is to even blog about this election, if this is the only crazy hypothetical situation where the election of Trump even matters. Shit!

Blogger Robert Divinity August 03, 2016 3:19 PM  

Boy, it all the energy and time spent rooting for Trump is on the off chance that he might - might - allow America to peacefully break up, then this is the biggest waste of time and energy ever.

Vs. the absolute certainty Clinton will cause a violent insurrection and likely preside over a genocide? Yes, it's worth the effort to avoid that.

Blogger Robert Divinity August 03, 2016 3:24 PM  

Doesn't matter. The combat arms MOS ranks are over 90% white. The Dindus and Gimmedats gravitate to quartermaster corps.

Surely that will change before things get serious.

Blogger crand August 03, 2016 3:30 PM  

Wow, Vox if you're out there, I'd love to here your opinion on this because I haven't followed this blog and I'm really just interested to know if it's your opinion that the only reason we even care about Trump is because Hillary will bring "genocide" then, I'll have to reevaluate my opinion of you. This is nuts, that the only reason we even care about who wins the election is so that we can get to this extremely unlikely secession scenario. If that's the argument, I may to end my brief interest in this blog, even though I loved "Cuckservative" and "SJWs Always Lie".

Anonymous BGKB August 03, 2016 3:36 PM  

crand Why don't you read CUCKSERVATIVE before commenting any more? It costs less than a BJ from a home depot wetback.

calling it the "Evil Empire" and equating it with the evil of the Soviet Union

Would it help if we wrote it as (((Evil Empire))) to represent the leftists and cucks on both sides?

Doesn't matter. The combat arms MOS ranks are over 90% white. The Dindus and Gimmedats gravitate to quartermaster corps.

The question is can non Asian minority cooks safety cook food without help? I don't worry about the golden horde because they will consume bad food/water before leaving die verse city.

it seems like they're fairly optimistic, saying America is in a VERY DANGEROUS situation

If you don't live near die verse city, and you have guns, ammo, shelf stable food, water, & medical supplies you will be better off once the power goes out in die verse cities. The free stuff army will be cannibalizing nearby leftists 3 days later. No more paying for Latrina's 21 illegitimate crack babies.

The odds are the US as a country will fail within the next 50 years and that it's at least 20 years too late to do anything about it.

TRUMP'S WALL, (((FED))) AUDIT, & Pinochet Helicopter to the rescue.

Surely that will change before things get serious.

Non Asian minorities not smart enough to join the military for any job are still "smart" enough to get scholarships for college. They are trying their best with Trannies allowed but so far none outside the pentagon.

The Queen Berets Fighting soldiers on heels high, Fearless men’s hair purple dye, Men who are mean as they sashay, The brave femen of the Queen Beret, Silver balloons upon their chest, These are men, America’s left behest, One hundred men we'll HIV test today, But only thirty three win the Queen Beret, Trained to live, off welfare's land, Trained in combat, purse to hand, Men who dance by night and day, Bathroom Creep, from the Queen Beret

Blogger crand August 03, 2016 3:40 PM  

I have read Cuckservative and my Vox reposted my Amazon review that I wrote as "Taipan". Are you people on this blog just having fun with me to see if I'll actually think that someone believes all the nutso things you all are saying and to see if I'll continue to put up with you all accusing me of being a liar and calling me every name in the book? This is unreal. Are you all like teenagers in your pajamas in your Mom's basement choking the chicken with the other hand that's not typing?

OpenID luciussomesuch August 03, 2016 3:41 PM  

re Pollack: sometimes I re-tackle Paglia's modern art essays in "Glittering Images" when I'm non-fighting insomnia, just to play Devil's Advocate and all that jazz. Her enthusiasm is infectious, and the gossip is amusing in a sort of Paul Johnson's "Intellectuals" way, but I've never been interested in Modern Art and I sense Paglia must've experienced cognitive dissonance as she composed the latter part.

Pollack seems to excite a certain rhapsodic reverie in her, which I'm sure helped coin a few charming Whitman-esque turns of phrase I don't have in front of me, but the painting itself is an ugly green-black thing.

It's interesting to contemplate Warhol as some sort of pre-Milo, what with his mass-going and celibacy, and the drift from original and supposedly very distinguished draftsmanship into what might be considered a decades-long campaign of trolling.

Anonymous BGKB August 03, 2016 3:41 PM  

Here is a pic of the queen berets charging. The elite of what would still serve ((()))
http://www.politicalcartoons.com/cartoon/b6bd2b96-5c4e-4517-a420-5f178525b369.html

Blogger James Dixon August 03, 2016 3:43 PM  

> He's stating without equivocation on this blog, even today, that there is are no "odds". That America is done.

The America he knew and cared about is. That doesn't mean there aren't remnants worth preserving.

> So, you're not accurately representing what he's saying here very clearly.

I wasn't "representing what he was saying" at all. Those were my own comments, not repetitions of his.

> It's totally fine if he think America is done but I'm here on this blog to find out what his opinion is.

Then direct your questions to him. Or ask him directly via email. His address is on the top left.

> Also, it's not just that he think America is done which I have found surprising but also that, based on his own words, he should be rooting for America to be done.

That fact that he recognizes that America is in the process of collapsing doesn't mean he's "rooting" for it.

Vox is a student of history. He knows what's involved in the collapse of empires and what it means for the people involved. You obviously have no idea.

> Do you get what I"m saying?

Actually, no I don't. You're all over the map on your protests, and never bothering to direct them at the person you claim to actually want to ask.

> Well, then all this energy and optimism over Trump is a waste of time and we shouldn't even be blogging about it.

No one's asking you to.

> The 4 reasons for caring about Trump make no sense...

To you.

> ... and the collapse will be worse the longer we delay ...

Not necessarily.

> Is that Vox's view that Trump will allow America to break up peacefully?

You'd have to ask him. I don't think the specific question has come up.

> Boy, it all the energy and time spent rooting for Trump is on the off chance that he might - might - allow America to peacefully break up, then this is the biggest waste of time and energy ever.

Actually, that would be the very best reason to vote for him.

> And, my God, even if, let's just say for the sake of argument, Trump would allow secession, are all these secessionists just going to come out by the millions over the next few years. Secession is still considered a very radical idea by some libertarians and not just by cuckservatives but by the vast majority of people on the right.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Blogger James Dixon August 03, 2016 3:49 PM  

> ... because I haven't followed this blog ...

No kidding. There are these things called archives. You might want to take a look at them.

> This is nuts, that the only reason we even care about who wins the election is so that we can get to this extremely unlikely secession scenario.

Not the only reason. But if Trump would allow (or better yet encourage) a peaceful secession, that would be the very best reason imaginable to vote for him.

> If that's the argument, I may to end my brief interest in this blog...

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Anonymous BGKB August 03, 2016 3:55 PM  

http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/08/02/khizr-khan-deletes-law-firm-website-proving-financially-benefits-pay-play-muslim-migration/

TRUMP got him to delete his own law firm's moslem welfare immigration site.

Blogger VD August 03, 2016 4:01 PM  

If that's the argument, I may to end my brief interest in this blog, even though I loved "Cuckservative" and "SJWs Always Lie".

I appreciate that you liked the books, but this blog isn't for everyone. I suspect you may not have the temperament for it.

And demanding that I answer questions is a very good way to ensure that I never answer them.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 03, 2016 4:06 PM  

@crand
You're emoting and projecting and assigning thoughts and feelings to Vox, and the commenters her.
Instead of making shit up, listen, learn and THEN comment.
The thoughts you assign to Vox are simply your fevered imagination.
As far as buying time, there's an old story from Byzantium that explains it pretty well:

There was a teacher of music to the Imperial household in Constantinople who was accused of plotting against the throne, and was sentenced to death. He appealed to the Emperor.
When he went before the Emperor, he did not beg for mercy or claim his innocence, but boasted of his ability as a teacher of music.
"I am so great a teacher, Noble Caesar, that I swear by the Virgin, I can teach your horse to sing the Mass."
Well, this amused the emperor, so he ordered the man be confined in the palace stables, where he could work daily with the Emperor's favorite horse, to teach it to sing.
One day, as the teacher was leading the horse around its paddock and singing the Mass, his friend happened by.
"Why did you make such a claim. You know it's not true."
"Time is the only essential, friend. Now, I have a few weeks, perhaps a few years. In that time, who knows what might happen?
The Emperor could die. The horse could die. I might die.
Or maybe the horse will learn to sing."

Blogger LurkingPuppy August 03, 2016 4:13 PM  

crand wrote:Secession is still considered a very radical idea by some libertarians and not just by cuckservatives but by the vast majority of people on the right.
crand wrote:I haven't followed this blog
Oh, now I see the problem. You've just learned about the Alt-Right for the first time.

If you keep reading here, it won't seem crazy for long.

Anonymous Discard August 03, 2016 4:14 PM  

crand: It's best, when you enter a room full of strangers, to keep quiet and pay attention until you learn the rules. The new guy is always out of sync. If you want substantive discussion, it's here, but wait awhile before you dive in. As in any community, there are understandings and assumptions not immediately obvious to newcomers.

Welcome

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 03, 2016 4:14 PM  

crand wrote:Are you people on this blog just having fun with me to see if I'll actually think that someone believes all the nutso things you all are saying and to see if I'll continue to put up with you all accusing me of being a liar and calling me every name in the book? This is unreal. Are you all like teenagers in your pajamas in your Mom's basement

1) a lot of the commenters here are a LOT smarter than you, Many are smarter than Vox. The fact that you don't understand them doesn't mean they're crazy, stupid or trolling. It means you don't understand. Try to understand before denouncing.
2) IF you come across as a troll and a liar, that's what you will get called. Maybe it's your approach rather than our meanness that's the problem.
3) I know it's difficult for a woman, but try to step outside your ego for a few minutes.

Blogger crand August 03, 2016 4:59 PM  

Vox, I didn't know I was demanding that anyone answer any questions. How do you even do that online? I think for sure this blog may not be for me if asking questions and not having scoured the achives makes me an idiot who doesn't know anything about history. I will be erasing the review on Amazon which is quite amazing considering how blown away I was by the book. But, you know, people who live in the Evil Empire do things like that. I'm a European citizen by the way but I recognize that America is not the Evil Empire. Vox, you might want to erase that link to my review sine there won't be anything to link to in about 5 minutes.

Blogger crand August 03, 2016 5:05 PM  

Review gone, and so am I! Wow, I know a lot of people don't come across well online with keyboard warriors and all, but this is honestly, the worst exchange of ideas I've ever had on an electronic form in my whole life. Don't worry about banning me, I'll remove myself. I honestly had curiosity for what you have to say but that makes me demanding and idiotic. Well, good luck with getting through the genocide, which I even think may happen, but I certainly don't think it's all that likely in the next few years.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 03, 2016 5:09 PM  

crand wrote:but this is honestly, the worst exchange of ideas I've ever had on an electronic form in my whole life.
The exchange started with you attacking and demanding answers.
And of course, you go histrionic, removing the review.Why? Because your feelings were hurt.

Anonymous Headcannon August 03, 2016 5:14 PM  

Warhol made no bones about modern art being junk, trolled them repeatedly, and had an influential feminist try to murder him. He's alright in my book.

OpenID frankluke August 03, 2016 5:15 PM  

The silent people are speaking with their wallets...

Donald J. Trump all but erased his enormous fund-raising deficit against Hillary Clinton in the span of just two months, according to figures released by his campaign on Tuesday, converting the passion of his core followers into a flood of small donations on a scale rarely seen in national politics.

Mr. Trump and the Republican National Committee raised $64 million through a joint digital and direct mail effort in July, according to his campaign, the bulk of it from small donations. All told, Mr. Trump and his party brought in $82 million last month, only slightly behind Mrs. Clinton, and ended with an enormous pool of $74 million in cash on hand, suggesting he might now have the resources to compete with Mrs. Clinton in the closing stretch of the campaign.

The figures mark a major achievement in Mr. Trump’s campaign, which until recent months was largely funded by a trickle of hat and T-shirt sales and by Mr. Trump’s wallet. And they suggest Mr. Trump has the potential to be the first Republican nominee whose campaign could be financed chiefly by grass-roots supporters pitching in $10 or $25 apiece, echoing the unprecedented success of Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont during the Democratic presidential primary.

Mrs. Clinton has “been doing this for 20 years,” said Steven Mnuchin, a New York investor who serves as Mr. Trump’s finance chairman. “We’ve been doing it for two months.”
...

And the bold is what scares the elites.

Anonymous Spartacus xxxxx August 03, 2016 5:42 PM  

frankluke wrote:Mr. Trump has the potential to be the first Republican nominee whose campaign could be financed chiefly by grass-roots supporters pitching in $10 or $25 apiece,
...

And the bold is what scares the elites.


Funny, the NY Times didn't provide a link for chipping in $10++ to the Trump campaign. This looks like the right place-
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/

Anonymous Spartacus xxxxx August 03, 2016 5:52 PM  

frankluke wrote:Donald J. Trump all but erased his enormous fund-raising deficit against Hillary Clinton

All told, Mr. Trump and his party brought in $82 million last month, only slightly behind Mrs. Clinton, and ended with an enormous pool of $74 million in cash on hand, suggesting he might now have the resources to compete with Mrs. Clinton in the closing stretch of the campaign



Another item. Trump has a massive force multiplier, his lifetime of business experience. He'll make every dollar count in a way that a tax feeder can only dream of. Weighting the numbers by that force multiplier, his war chest is already much larger than Clinton's.

Blogger VD August 03, 2016 5:56 PM  

Vox, I didn't know I was demanding that anyone answer any questions. How do you even do that online? I think for sure this blog may not be for me if asking questions and not having scoured the achives makes me an idiot who doesn't know anything about history. I will be erasing the review on Amazon which is quite amazing considering how blown away I was by the book. But, you know, people who live in the Evil Empire do things like that. I'm a European citizen by the way but I recognize that America is not the Evil Empire. Vox, you might want to erase that link to my review sine there won't be anything to link to in about 5 minutes.

We don't care.

Anonymous artaud August 03, 2016 6:42 PM  

Hey, we're back. Briefly. Veeeery briefly. Haven't seen so many blind men in one place since I volunteered at the Lighthouse in high school. I can't be bothered to argue with people so filled with venom and stupidity. (Think about the analogy to SFF: "But they're in SPACE! Space doesn't work like that! I refuse to even think about it! Heinlein! Heinlein!" [To quote the Earl of Lemongrab: "Unacceptable! Unacceptable! GAHHHH! Seven million years dungeon!"] Sheesh.

Someone's point about Michelangelo being instantly accessible is well-taken, (although c'mon, dude, there are simply different kinds of art: Mozart, though vastly complex, is tonally stable and therefore sort of self-evident. Wagner, less so, or even not so -- though it doesn't diminish my respect for Wagner. Do you want me to play it for you so you can hear the difference?). The rest are pretty much so pig-ignorant I wouldn't know where to start. Also, the level of bitter envy is sort of hilarious.

Not to be tooooo elitist (hey man, I grew up working class) but for all of those pissing on Pollock, I have two questions:

1. How many of his actual works have you seen in person (name them), and how long did you look at them? Most people in museums have the attention span of a hummingbird. And that is what y'all sound like to me.

2. Tell me the names of your favorite four artists in your collection.

Listen guys, there are plenty of people at this site who know vastly more about a huge number of things than I do, and I respect that. So very sorry if I happen to know more about something than you do.

RETARDS: Unacceptable! My head will now explode!

MYSELF: Good.





Blogger James Dixon August 03, 2016 6:51 PM  

> ...if asking questions and not having scoured the achives makes me an idiot who doesn't know anything about history.

Oh, those aren't what makes you an idiot.

> ...but I recognize that America is not the Evil Empire

Really? What country has been at the forefront of fermenting revolutions in countries around the world for the past decade or more?

> Review gone, and so am I!

Hopefully the door didn't hit you.

> ... but this is honestly, the worst exchange of ideas I've ever had on an electronic form in my whole life.

Again, really? Unless you just came online in the past month or so, I find that hard to credit. Compared to some of the sites out there, this one is all milk and cookies.

> ...but I certainly don't think it's all that likely in the next few years.

If you had bothered to check the archives you'd know that most of us don't either. There's a reason I said in the next 50 years, though that's probably the high side.

You asked questions to the posters at large, you got answers. You didn't like the answers. Ain't that a shame.

Anonymous artaud August 03, 2016 6:52 PM  

Oh, and the Parthian shot before I split: some retard thought he could refute me by saying forgers had successfully reproduced Pollock's drip style; maybe they did, but I was talking about art, not money. What I meant was, no actual real artist has been able to conjure something as strange and alchemical (viz., original) using a similar technique.

You guys simply haven't learned how to see this stuff. That's okay, y'all know plenty more about plenty of other things of which I am ignorant. I just think it's funny to see grown men grunting and fuming and jumping up and down about something they clearly, manifestly, know absolutely nothing about.

Cheers, mates.

Anonymous Spartacus xxxxx August 03, 2016 6:55 PM  

artaud wrote:So very sorry if I happen to know more about something than you do.

RETARDS: Unacceptable! My head will now explode!

MYSELF: Good.


We don't care.

Blogger James Dixon August 03, 2016 6:59 PM  

> Most people in museums have the attention span of a hummingbird. And that is what y'all sound like to me.

I don't live in a city and I don't visit cities if I can help it. My museum visiting is infrequent at best and modern art doesn't even make the cut.

> 2. Tell me the names of your favorite four artists in your collection.

I don't collect art. There are more important things to spend my limited money on.

So I guess in your mind I'm disqualified from having an opinion worth listening to. Well, that's a sword that cuts both ways.

Anonymous Malwyn's apprentice August 03, 2016 7:06 PM  

@112, @113, @114: Trump fundraising:

You all bring up very good points. I've been rather amused at the hysteria of the Trump/Clinton fundraising gap because Trump is running an insurgent campaign. He gets free publicity, utilizes social media quite well -- campaign funds (I expect) will be spent very carefully.

Blogger James Dixon August 03, 2016 7:07 PM  

> You guys simply haven't learned how to see this stuff.

Have you ever considered that maybe if I have to "learn how to see" it, it's not worth seeing? I didn't have to learn how to taste food to know what tastes good. I didn't have to learn how to listen to music to know what music I like.

> ...they clearly, manifestly, know absolutely nothing about.

I know what I like to look at. That's the only criteria that matters. In point of fact, I'd never even heard of Pollock by name and couldn't care less one way or the other. But I have heard your arguments before, and they're as bogus now as they have been every other time I've heard them.

Anonymous Malwyn's apprentice August 03, 2016 7:17 PM  

@118 Artaud
You guys simply haven't learned how to see this stuff.

Or simply have no interest. My favorite parts at the Met are Greco-Roman, Egyptian, and Arms & Armor. Paintings have always been hit or miss with me, but I find decapitated/smashed statuary quite relaxing and invigorating.

Anonymous artaud August 03, 2016 7:37 PM  

"Have you ever considered that maybe if I have to "learn how to see" it, it's not worth seeing?"

Sorry, this is my last sortie on this thread, but this one was just so bone-cancer stupid I had to reply.

Of course I've considered that; it used to be something called my life.

Many people find, say, classical music incomprehensible because they don't understand things like development. So to them it's just a mish-mash of sounds. (It's even worse with jazz.) In order to really enjoy Mozart, yes, you have to "learn" how to listen to Mozart. You might sort of enjoy him in a village idiot way even if you don't learn, because the man wrote such amazing melodies. But if you don't "learn" how to listen, you're missing a great deal.

"I didn't have to learn how to listen to music to know what music I like."

What you like is not the issue. I like bluegrass and punk rock. That isn't the issue either. I remember in high school arguing with a black friend who told me punk rock sucks because it all sounds the same. I said no, you're just not paying close enough attention: if you can't tell the difference between the Clash and the Ramones and Patti Smith, you're just not listening properly. By the way, Donna Summer and Grandmaster Flash both sound sort of the same to _me_. He laughed and said, You just repeated your own argument.

I don't care what you like. Now back to your cave. Winter is coming, and all angry bears need to hibernate.

@123: Good for you. Like what you like. My only reason for arguing this point was people saying, I don't understand this, it looks like shit. If people said that to you about Arms and Armor (which I too enjoy), you'd calmly explain what was so silly about their point of view. They don't have to like Arms and Armor, but to call it shit is just, well, like Tyrion Lannister's brain-damaged cousin smashing the beetles.

And now I'm going to zip it because I'm sure I've become tedious. Good night to you all, and all the bartenders, and all the ships at sea.



Anonymous 6184 August 03, 2016 7:47 PM  

There is a reason why God chose them, arguably the first People-of-the-Lie, out of all the peoples under the Sun in order to make his glory manifest: He chose the Least.

Had he chosen the Best, the scriptures probably would have been written in Japanese.

Blogger Dirk Manly August 03, 2016 7:58 PM  

Artaud, I'm an artist and a musician,

...and you are nothing more than a mere snob.

Blogger James Dixon August 03, 2016 8:32 PM  

> Many people find, say, classical music incomprehensible because they don't understand things like development.

I don't find classical music incomprehensible. I do find it best taken in small doses.

> It's even worse with jazz.

Repeat the above comment, but cut the dose in half.

> In order to really enjoy Mozart, yes, you have to "learn" how to listen to Mozart.

You obviously have some personal definition of "really enjoy" which is completely outside what normal people take it to mean.

> What you like is not the issue.

Actually, it's exactly the issue. The fact that you refuse to recognize it is what makes your argument completely bogus.

Yeah, you like things I don't care for. That's fine. What's not fine is you saying that I'm incapable of appreciating them, when if fact they're not even worth the time it would take to examine them.

Blogger Groot August 03, 2016 8:35 PM  

@30. artaud:

In the 20th century, there is only one: Frazetta.

@59. Snidely Whiplash:
"One word: Bouguereau"

Pretty good, except for the putti. Get's p̶r̶e̶t̶t̶y̶ weird.

@105. LurkingPuppy:
"You've just learned about the Alt-Right for the first time. If you keep reading here, it won't seem crazy for long."

I've been reading here over a year, and it still seems crazy. In fact, increasingly so. Part of the fun.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 03, 2016 10:07 PM  

@Artaud
Jackson Pollock was a hack. You, on the other hand, are a pretentious snob.
Ever hear The Emperor's New Clothes? You're one of the courtiers exclaiming over the beauty, elegance and workmanship of the Emperor's clothes. We're the 8-year-old in the crowd.
Our disdain threatens your self-image, so you must denounce us as stupid, unsophisticated, uneducated, and simply unable to see what you see. We see it, alright. We just see that it's crap.
Oh, and the "You MUST see in in person, it doesn't reproduce well" is bullshit. It's an arrangement of form, pattern, and color. The only real difference in seeing in person is if it's a large format work.

My 5 favorite artists?
William Bouguereau. He could fill three of the other 4 slots too.
Frazetta, the greatest of the impressionists.
Maxfield Parrish
Albrecht Dürer
John Constable

BTW, if you, unlike art toad, like realist art artrenewal.org is an awesome collection of hundreds of great artists

Oh, but wait, you want items from my "collection". Sorry, I can't afford to buy great art. Although I do have a couple of Ace Powell pieces. He was a neighbor of my in-laws.

Anonymous BGKB August 03, 2016 10:29 PM  

the Trump/Clinton fundraising gap... -- campaign funds (I expect) will be spent very carefully

The only Candidate offering a free 1/2 hour with a hooker for voters is HilLIARy.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/21/meet-the-hookers-for-hillary-why-prostitutes-want-hillary-clinton-for-president.html
The secret is Bill Tips well. I couldn't believe how small slick willy was when I saw him in real life.

Blogger tublecane August 03, 2016 11:05 PM  

@116-I don't consider Mozart and Wagner to have created different kinds of art. One wrote operas, the other wrote operas. The differences, and there are big ones, are a result of Wagner being degenerate. Mark Twain, I think, said his music is better than it sounds. Which makes no sense, but seems to in Wagner's case. Because a few bars every two hours or so are so beautiful they make you want to die.

No one would ever think to say that of Mozart. That's one big problem with modernism, or proto-modernism. It's always trying to be better than it is. Can't use trusty, old tonality, because I don't know. Beethoven did it all, or something. So you compose five-hour, virtually tuneless operas, which require PHDs to follow musically. (Though you make sure to include enough glorious set-pieces so the audience doesn't murder you). I start to wonder: what's the point? Aren't you out to please people? Why compose in code?

You could just as easily say Pollok's paintings are better than they look. Which, again, doesn't make sense. Doesn't even feel right in his case, because there's no Good Friday, Rainbow Bridge, Fire Music, Forrest Murmurs, Idylls or Rhine Journeys. There're only miles of drips.

Blogger tublecane August 03, 2016 11:07 PM  

Pollok = Pollock

Anonymous Spartacus xxxxx August 03, 2016 11:11 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Oh, but wait, you want items from my "collection". Sorry, I can't afford to buy great art. Although I do have a couple of Ace Powell pieces. He was a neighbor of my in-laws.

No problem, I'll field that one. As I was just saying to my good friend Martin Scorsese over dinner (his invite, btw), it's tough for me to have to pick out my favorite artists. After all, just the first-press-etching section of the Rembrandt Wing of my expansive galleries has so many hard choices. And we haven't even begun to discuss my Raphaels.

Blogger Austin Ballast August 03, 2016 11:32 PM  

So what's with all the news about the major Trump problems today? Seems worse than normal. Is it all over the idiot Kahn's speech that turns out to be a farce for many reasons?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 03, 2016 11:43 PM  

Austin Ballast wrote:So what's with all the news about the major Trump problems today?

Narrative.
Seems that he dissociated Crimea from Ukraine, and that's a bad no-no and illiterate, even though Crimea was forcibly joined to Ukraine by Josef Stalin in the 1940s and culturally, economically and historically they had very little overlap. Prior to the Crimean War, Crimea was populated by Crimean Tartars (leftover from the Golden Horde), after, it was colonized by Russians. The Tartars were moved out by the Soviets and more Russians moved in.
But we're all supposed to pretend that Crimea is an integral part of Ukraine,a nd anyone who doesn't go along with the narrative is an idiot and a stupid head and poopy.
Also, Reuters changed their polling methodology which magically gave Hillary Clinton a 9-point boots. They also altered the last few weeks of polls and disappeared the ones from farther back. They're no longer on their website.
Which means that Trump is LOSING. Losing so badly....

Narrative.

Blogger Randy August 03, 2016 11:44 PM  

@autaud
You should probably read some SF - like Stranger in a Strange Land. It'll be worth it for just this quote
It's up to the artist to use language that can be understood, not hide it in some private code. Most of these jokers don't even want to use language you and I know or can learn . . . they would rather sneer at us and be smug, because we 'fail' to see what they are driving at. If indeed they are driving at anything--obscurity is usually the refuge of incompetence.

Blogger tublecane August 04, 2016 12:47 AM  

@134-I think they're trying to fit a month's worth of Trump-bashing in before the Olympics, because no one will be paying attention for a while

Blogger tublecane August 04, 2016 1:35 AM  

@124-People do find classical music incomprehensible. But not usually ones who grew up in the West, and are familiar with its tonal system. It all basically works the same, from minstrelsy to rock to classical. Once you learn it, you can't forget it. All you have to do to learn is listen.

Common folk don't misunderstand classical music. They merely lack patience or interest. When they say they don't get Mozart what they really mean is they're bored. What sounds like gobbledygook to them is pre-Renaissance or non-Western music, not Mozart.

There is good reason for them to be bored: two-plus centuries stand between us and Mozart, and popular taste has changed. Accustomed as we are to the twentieth century, we forget serious (or "serious") music and popular music aren't natural enemies. Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, and the gang wrote in the popular style of their day. They didn't write specifically for a mass audience, or at least not all the time, but they wrote in the same idiom as what the masses were used to hearing. There was no great divorce in Western music between laymen and those initiated into the secret rites of High Art until nonsense like serial composition caught the elite and everyone else went jazzy.

I won't call you a snob, but modernism does infect people's minds and turns them unduly against the mass audience. It's hard to escape from, because there's a nugget of truth to it. Great art can't be what pleases everyone. Not everyone has good taste. Almost no one does, really. But you can't let that trick you into thinking anything's good simply because hardly anyone likes it. That's insane.

Modernism doesn't go that far, but it pretends that High Art must be incomprehensible to the uninitiated, at least to some degree. Since no one would believe them if they excluded past masters, for instance Michelangelo in painting or Mozart in music, they get grandfathered in. They can't let Mozart be Elvis, so they have to pretend he's incomprehensible, along with the modernists, to a lesser degree. This despite his obvious mass appeal. He's in commercials and movies, on the radio. People don't know his works beyond single movements, maybe (what are called "bloody chunks"), but they know and love his music, even if they don't know his name.

You're gonna tell me classical music is incomprehensible to them, nevertheless. Because you have to, because High Art must be for the initiated. If laymen can appreciate Mozart, even superficially, but can't appreciate Pollock at all, what does that say about Pollock?

That's the part modernists leave out: superficial appreciation. Junior High kids complain about being forced to read Shakespeare, so Obama guess it's okay for snobs to like Shakespeare. But he packs them into theaters, and they make movies out of his plays. So I guess he has mass appeal. Modernist paintings of the Pollock variety have no mass appeal whatsoever. Not superficially, not at all.

Blogger tublecane August 04, 2016 1:43 AM  

@124- Shorter version of the above: no, you don't have to "learn" to appreciate Mozart. Not like you do Pollock, anyway, assuming you actually are learning and not fooling yourself. There's much to know about Mozart's music, and you will miss out on a lot if you don't study it, or at least pay attention and listen more than once.

However, you can appreciate it from the get-go. No one has to endure the equivalent of staring at a Pollock in person for hours until the stars align and they finally get it. I only require one bar or less to "get" Mozart, on what I call the superficial level. You call characterize that as village idiot appreciation. I don't get that. Catchy melodies are for idiots? What do smart people listen for? The abstract patterns notes make on the score?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 04, 2016 3:02 AM  

Pollock is to painting what "tone poems" are to music.

Pretentious trash.

Anonymous Dscard August 04, 2016 3:27 AM  

I remember a critic complaining that only 400 people went to hear the L.A. Philharmonic play Paul Hindemith at the Hollywood Bowl. What a jerk. The music has been around for 80 years, plenty of time for people to get used to it, and even musicians still don't like it. Modernist music and art go hand in glove with progressive politics: The whole point is to pretend you're smarter than those who don't get it.

Anonymous Bz August 04, 2016 3:47 AM  

Without entering the specific battle, I do understand and agree that experience can give depth to appreciating art, just like in many other things. Read 1000 SF books with care and thoughtfulness and you may see themes, ideas, etc that are not apparent to the casual reader. Or read literary criticism (of the right sort) and you may improve your understanding of a work, an author, a technique, or a genre. Or, to switch fields, you may (I presume) get a deeper appreciation of what's exciting about a football game after you have worked as a coach, say, rather than just as a very casual hotel bar viewer. And it's the same with art.

So what has gone wrong with it? In my view, which I think came from something TS Eliot wrote, art became an academic subject, and academia above all valorizes novelty with some difficulty on top. Because otherwise it gets unrewarding to write papers and theses. In the 20th century, you just keep track of exciting isms with manifestos and can dig into big bright concepts in NYC rather than stare at portraits of Prussian nobility in some dank castle. It's convenience, it's a bit of razzle dazzle and excitement, it's marketing.

(And, as we now know, it's a bit of CIA money too. E.g., http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/modern-art-was-cia-weapon-1578808.html )

"If that's art, then I'm a Hottentot." - Harry Truman

Anonymous Bz August 04, 2016 3:59 AM  

A friend of mine complained that avant garde modern music is so obscure it is only appreciated by reading it. So it literally is sheet music? Yes.

Blogger James Dixon August 04, 2016 8:21 AM  

> Modernist music and art go hand in glove with progressive politics: The whole point is to pretend you're smarter than those who don't get it.

I wouldn't go that far. Everyone is different, even at the physical level. There are literally groups of people who don't see the same colors as other people do. What appeals to one person won't necessarily to another. So I don't discount that some people do like looking at things that don't appeal to me.

But to claim that everyone who disagrees with you about art is simply uneducated in the intricacies of the art is the mark of a pretentious snob who thinks he's better than everyone else.

Anonymous artaud August 04, 2016 3:00 PM  

#138: Applause, sir. A dignified and intelligent comment. (Might be the first from your fortress.) I might argue with you on this point or that, (actually not might but would), but at least you rise far above the level of poo-flinging which is the rest of this discussion on the part of my antagonists.

"Common folk don't misunderstand classical music. They merely lack patience or interest. When they say they don't get Mozart what they really mean is they're bored."

See, here's the thing. You really can't get commoner than me. I mean it. You really wouldn't want to know the details of my bio. Get your ass kicked dozens of times for playing Mozart and then tell me what common people think. So it's not about the "initiated" and the "uninitiated", it's about "I care" and "I don't (or won't) care." The sheer angry venom on this thread initiated by a casual, loose-associated remark which was auxiliary to the original thought, tells me something about the mind-set of a lot of people. You want there to be an evil elite whom you can virtue-signal amongst yourselves by valiantly opposing. We want interesting exploration, new stuff, interesting stuff, that's it. Philip Glass drove a cab while he was writing "Einstein on the Beach." I slept in parks while doing... well, whatever it is I do. Elite? I fucking wish.

Anonymous artaud August 04, 2016 3:05 PM  

"But to claim that everyone who disagrees with you about art is simply uneducated in the intricacies of the art is the mark of a pretentious snob who thinks he's better than everyone else."

See, again you're a fucking retard. I wasn't arguing about people who disagree with me, anyone can and does disagree with me and I'm fine with it; I was arguing about people who angrily denounce something as worthless shit, when it is obvious to me that they've never taken the trouble to understand it.

Consider a counter-example.

ME TO VOX: I don't like video games. Therefore they are stinky poo-poo.
VOX: Well, you may not like video games, that's your choice, but the second premise doesn't follow. Maybe if you understood video games more carefully, by actually studying them...
ME TO VOX: You're a snob! You're pretentious! Video games are stinky poo-poo BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE THEM!

That's been about the level of discourse here. Really. You should hear yourselves.

Anonymous artaud August 04, 2016 3:07 PM  

"126. Dirk Manly August 03, 2016 7:58 PM

Artaud, I'm an artist and a musician,"

Well you must not be very good at either.

"The man who does two things does nothing."
-- Old Chinese Saying


Anonymous Discard August 04, 2016 3:28 PM  

When a rare opportunity to hear modernist music live can only draw 400 people to a venue that holds 15,000, in a city that is awash in musicians, the musicians are telling us the music is crap. Why should anybody invest any effort in understanding music that even musicians don't like?

Re 147: DaVinci did nothing.
Michaelangelo did nothing.
Jefferson did nothing.
Franklin did nothing.
Churchill did nothing.
President Garfield did nothing.
Billy Zoom did nothing.
Art Fraud does something?

Blogger James Dixon August 04, 2016 4:15 PM  

> See, again you're a fucking retard.

I see you demonstrating my point for me.

> I was arguing about people who angrily denounce something as worthless shit, when it is obvious to me that they've never taken the trouble to understand it.

Again, you demonstrate my point.

Blogger James Dixon August 04, 2016 4:15 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous artaud August 04, 2016 4:28 PM  

@148 I will agree with you that, effectively speaking, Churchill did nothing.

But.... you don't understand how insults work, do you.

"Again, you demonstrate my point."

Fine, except.... You don't HAVE a point. Except the one on the top of your head.

This is fun!

"Does anybody remember laughter?" -- Robert Plant

Anonymous artaud August 04, 2016 5:23 PM  

Cheers for name-checking Billy Zoom though, otherwise silly person!

Blogger James Dixon August 04, 2016 6:44 PM  

> Fine, except.... You don't HAVE a point. Except the one on the top of your head.

I'll let the other readers decide that for themselves. I don't really care what you think.

> This is fun!

I'm glad you think so. Entertaining people is an art form, after all. I guess you'd have to say you haven't studied it enough to appreciate it though.

Anonymous artaud August 04, 2016 10:21 PM  

"I don't really care what you think."

See, this is one of the things that gets me down about this site. This whole banal posturing thing of "I don't care what you think." One sees it over and over and over again (I 'fess up to having indulged in it myself.)

Of course you care what I think, knucklehead. Otherwise why would you still be replying to my comments long after the blog has moved on to other things, and nobody else is reading your sniping except me? What is this, a thumb-wrestling match? Sure seems like it. I say we call it a day.

Blogger James Dixon August 05, 2016 8:30 AM  

> Of course you care what I think, knucklehead. Otherwise why would you still be replying to my comments long after the blog has moved on to other things,

Because I'm not writing for or to you. But thanks for continuing to make my point.

Please note that if I granted your point, it would also mean that you care what I think, since you keep responding to me. And it's pretty obvious that's not the case.

> ...and nobody else is reading your sniping except me?

Possible, but since I don't know that...

Anonymous Discard August 05, 2016 5:39 PM  

Art Fraud: Ignoring the main points and disputing details is the argument of a whipped bitch.

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