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Thursday, August 25, 2016

Churchian theology

Erick Erickson ‏@EWErickson
Oh no, alt-Reich! It turns out the creator of heaven and earth is a Jew! Literally!! You are not His chosen people, they are!

Supreme Dark Lord ‏@voxday
Who are the "Jews who are not Jews"? And what is "the Synagogue of Satan?"

Since you're a theologian and all now.


I'm actually genuinely curious how people explain those two concepts from Revelation 3:9, whether they are preterists or more conventional eschatologists.

Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Moreover, my understanding is that Jesus was a Galilean, not a Judean. However, I don't see how it matters much, considering that we're in virgin birth territory anyhow.

Labels:

137 Comments:

Blogger tublecane August 25, 2016 8:08 PM  

I wonder about whether Jesus is a Jew, but I don't have very much geographic, historical, or ethnographic knowledge of the ancient Levant, let alone the requisite Biblical knowledge. Could an argument be made that we should call him Galilean instead of Jewish, if "Jew" derives from Judea, and Jesus wasn't technically from Judea? You can't say he was a Jew because he practiced the Jewish faith, as he was a Christian, obviously. Maybe the fact that his mother was of the Jewish faith, presumably...

I don't know. But I also know most likely anyone tweeting "Jesus was a Jew" don't know, either.

Blogger American Spartan August 25, 2016 8:09 PM  

The more that fat degenerate cuck opens his mouth the more I want to see him starve to death, is that weird?

Anonymous Godfrey August 25, 2016 8:09 PM  

Can he explain why Israel has a wall? And why Palestinian refugees are forced to live in the Gaza ghetto?


Oh wait... I forgot my theology... if we start a WWIII nuclear holocaust Jesus will return. The Prophet Hal Lindsey said so. Israel First!

Anonymous Icicle August 25, 2016 8:09 PM  

Let's make supersessionism great again!

Blogger Murray August 25, 2016 8:10 PM  

Wow, that's dumb. Has he never read the New Testament?

Besides, modern Judaism is a very different religion to the pre-Christian variety. Modern Jews trace their history back to the Pharisees (remember them?) who were the only group left standing after the destruction of the Temple in AD 70, and who reinvented Judaism to accommodate their new circumstances. Christianity is actually older than post-Temple Rabbinic Talmudic Judaism.

Blogger tublecane August 25, 2016 8:12 PM  

don't = doesn't

I should add that I was raised in the Catholic faith, but they don't teach you much. A little bit of the catechism and the stuff everyone knows, and which I've mostly forgotten. I've studied the history of the faith on my own, but I don't know it better than I know Roman or Greek history, for instance, which isn't much.

Anonymous Takin' a Look August 25, 2016 8:12 PM  

Such a tutti-frutti aunty-semite!

Anonymous Grime Knight August 25, 2016 8:13 PM  

Not only that, Paul (the Jewest Jew you could Jew) even taught that gentile Christians were more Jewish than those who weren't in Christ and banked on their ethnicity.

The chosen people is no longer ethnic Israel, it's the people of God in Christ (both Jew and Gentile). If anything this is "expansion" theology, not "replacement" theology.

Blogger Escoffier August 25, 2016 8:14 PM  

I think a simple 'by their fruits shall ye know them' should suffice for this fat bastard.

Blogger WATYF August 25, 2016 8:19 PM  

Jesus was born in Bethlehem, in Judea and He was born of the line of Judah to a Jewish mother. The Bible takes great pains to establish His Jewish heritage (despite the virgin birth). He also made it clear that His ministry was "to the Jews", of which He was one, and He acknowledged that He was the King of the Jews. I honestly wasn't aware that this was even a question.

WATYF

Blogger guest August 25, 2016 8:21 PM  

Jesus was a Jew, meaning the from the tribe of Judah. Clearly. Both from Joseph, His adopted father, (Matthew) and Mary. (Luke)

Allow the bible to define bible words:

According to Jim Waldron "The Lamb/The Lion Dunlap Tenn 2003, pg 45 The term described men who were outwardly Jews, being circumcised in the flesh, but inwardly they were not Jews" That is,they are not circumcised in heart" (See Romans 2:28-29 Colossians 2:12-13)

Homer Hailey Baker Book House, Grand Rapids, 1979 pg 126 notes the reference to Romans 2:28-29 and Colossians 2:12-13, and also reminds us that the term synagogue always refers to the Jews. Christians assembled in churches. The one exception is in James 2 in which synagogue refers to their meeting place, and not them as a body of God's people.

In addition Hailey quotes the words of Christ, who called Jews who were intent on killing Him were guilty of blasphemy and rejecting the Christ:

John 8:44New International Version (NIV)

44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Anonymous Godfrey August 25, 2016 8:22 PM  

@5

Bingo, you should win a prize. Temple centered Judaism ended in 70 AD.

The Jews will chosen to reveal God to the world. And some Jews were confused with that from the very beginning. They thought they were chosen to rule it.

Blogger Josh August 25, 2016 8:23 PM  

The Risen King is a Jew.

Sorry, no offence, but it's true.

Anonymous Godfrey August 25, 2016 8:25 PM  

@13
True. And he died in atonement for the sins of mankind, Jew and Gentile.

Blogger VD August 25, 2016 8:27 PM  

Jesus was born in Bethlehem, in Judea and He was born of the line of Judah to a Jewish mother.

The Jews claim Mary was a Levite. Moreover, there appears to be some distinctions between Jew and being a member of the actual tribe of Judah. For example, the Cohens are supposed to be Levites, which would mean they are not Jews, but Israelites.

Please assume that I am fully apprised of the conventional assumptions. I really don't need people pointing out the obvious.

Blogger Josh August 25, 2016 8:27 PM  

True. And he died in atonement for the sins of mankind, Jew and Gentile.

Amen.

And every knee will bow.

Blogger VD August 25, 2016 8:29 PM  

Some of you are missing the point. What meant "a Jew" in 30 AD and what is meant by "a Jew" today is not necessarily the same thing. For example, most of modern Judaism came after the advent of Christianity, so calling Christianity "Judeo-Christian" with any reference to modern Judaism is clearly incorrect.

Blogger Phillip George August 25, 2016 8:33 PM  

Jesus was from 1. Bethlehem making Him a Judean by census registration, 2. Egypt, making Him a son of Joseph 3. Nazareth, thus grew up in Zebulun, the sixth and final son of Leah the first wife 4. He was Bar Mitzvah'd presumably when presented at the now destroyed Temple at 12 or 13? - making him Israel/ Judah, predating partition 5. He was a priest of Melchizedek declaring Him without father or mother. 6. Before Abraham He Is making Him eternal, uncreated, acausal cause 7. The only begotten Son of God, making Him as God. 8. First born from the Dead making Him, Judge of the Living and the Dead.

Synagogue of satan is the omelette angels unscramble when the harvest is over and separation takes place. Maybe Oct 2 2016, Yom Teruah. We could nearly hold our breath even though the common advice is not to,,

Anonymous VFM #6306 August 25, 2016 8:35 PM  

Judaism ended a bit earlier than that: when the veil of the Temple tore. The destruction of the Temple in 70 was the punctuation, the fulfillment of the prophecy.

But, to put it crudely, at the crucifixion, the head of the Jewish chicken was cut off, and all it could do was run around for the remainder of that generation.

The Synogogue of Satan was more firmly established during that time: an outgrowth of the oral traditions that Christ decried, which would eventually directly challenge as its own scripture in the form of the Talmud.

Jesus was a jew, and so was Paul.

was

God is not a jew.

Blogger tublecane August 25, 2016 8:36 PM  

@18-Could Bethlehemites consider him an anchor baby? They didn't establish permanent residence in that manger.

Anonymous Gen. Kong August 25, 2016 8:37 PM  

Churchians are fooling less people every time they open their flaps to whine. Their only real gospel is equality and their real god either Golden Dindu or Goldman-Sachs. Apostates.

Blogger tublecane August 25, 2016 8:39 PM  

@10-"He acknowledged that He was the King of the Jews"

Didn't He say something about His kingdom being not of this world?

Blogger Phillip George August 25, 2016 8:40 PM  

a forensic quest?

But this doesn’t mean that Mary was from Levi. The most obvious meaning of “relative” here, given the age difference between Mary and Elizabeth, that Elizabeth was Mary’s aunt – in which case she would be a maternal aunt, suggesting that Mary’s father – from Judah – married a girl from Levi. Which explains the words of Gabriel:

Luke 1:30Open in Logos Bible Software (if available) And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.” 34 And Mary said to the angel, “How will this be, since I am a virgin?
Note that Mary does not say “How will this be, since I am not descended from David?”

Blogger praetorian August 25, 2016 8:43 PM  

The (((problem))) is a bunch of turks who dragged off half the Italian piedmont women.

(I've seen turkish women and I've seen Italian women. I'm sympathetic, to a point.)

What has this to do with Christ?

Anonymous Takin' a Look August 25, 2016 8:45 PM  

@ Josh

You ought to pay attention here...

Blogger Robert Divinity August 25, 2016 8:46 PM  

Churchian Cucks like the hog-jowled Elmer Gantry-wannabe cited above eventually will require their biggest, baddest Six Flags over Jesuses to have Ethiopian babies in their Christmas crèches and Mary to be transgendered and in a SSM with Joseph. I assume this hasn't started yet.

Blogger HonorLiving August 25, 2016 8:47 PM  

Moreover, my understanding is that Jesus was a Galilean, not a Judean. However, I don't see how it matters much, considering that we're in virgin birth territory anyhow.


Judaism is matrilineal? I have no idea if Mary was a Jew. I don't really care either.

Blogger Timmy3 August 25, 2016 8:47 PM  

Jesus was declared King of the Jews by the Jews who wanted him crucified. Doesn't the term Jew change after Jesus died and Jews were saved from Sin by faith? If they don't use the word Christian, Jews should acknowledge they were saved. However, they were saved from Jesus, thus an issue for some.

Blogger S. Thermite August 25, 2016 8:50 PM  

The fact that God opened a dumb ass's mouth to warn Balaam doesn't mean that every dumbass should be heeded...

Blogger tz August 25, 2016 8:51 PM  

But that is why a particularly nasty strain of churchianity as originally popularized by Hal Lindsey and the pre-trib Rapture constantly reminds us there is no reason to bother about America as it isn't in the bible for the end times, and we really all need to sacrifice everything for Israel because they are needed to actualize the eschaton.

There were Safartic Jews in Palestine for centuries. The UN created secular socialist state of Israel is apparently for the Askenazi Jews.

They didn't need it as badly until the European nations started being overrun by the Caliphate.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 25, 2016 8:51 PM  

Did Eric call me a mud person?

Blogger Austin Ballast August 25, 2016 8:52 PM  

You may or may not like the author, but he does a good job addressing this point at http://www.khouse.org/articles/1995/40/

After the Babylonian captivity, the terms "Jew" and "Israelite" are used interchangeably. Ezra calls the returning remnant "Jews" 8 times and "Israel" 40 times. (Ezra also speaks of "all Israel": Ezra 2:70; 3:11; 8:35; 10:25, et al.) Nehemiah uses the term "Jew" 11 times and "Israel" 22 times. Nehemiah too speaks of "all Israel" being back in the land (Nehemiah 12:47). The remnant who returned from Babylon is represented as "the nation" (Malachi 1:1, et al.).

The same is true in the New Testament. Our Lord is said to have offered Himself to the nation, "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 10:5-6; 15:24). Tribes other than Judah are mentioned specifically in the New Testament as being represented in the land.15

Anna knew her tribal identity was of the tribe of Asher (Luke 2:36). Paul knew he was of the tribe of Benjamin, a "Jew" and an "Israelite" (Romans 11:1). The New Testament speaks of "Israel" 75 times and uses the word "Jew" 174 times.16

At the Feast of Pentecost Peter cries, "Ye men of Judea" (Acts 2:14), "ye men of Israel..." (Acts 2:22), and "All the house of Israel" (Acts 2:36).


I do not find the idea that Jew just means Judah as credible.

He also comments on the synagogue of Satan at http://www.khouse.org/articles/2010/920/print

I would have to dig out a bit more and I will put it on the list if you really want more and this is not just a sarcastic request.

Blogger Austin Ballast August 25, 2016 8:55 PM  

tz,

I have never heard anyone with a pre-Trib view arguing to not care about America because of the Scriptures. Many do correctly note they are silent on specifics, but no one says "let it burn," though some of us are expecting that is going to happen as we are pouring gasoline all over ourselves and playing with matches.

Slamming the pre-trib view may be a fun past time, but I choose to believe that Jesus really will return, what He spoke of is yet to come and the Church will not be here when He pours out His wrath. Stay if you want (and can).

Blogger Elder Son August 25, 2016 8:57 PM  

He was the King of the Jews, but the Jews rejected their King.

And what was it said about taking off your sandal and shaking the dust off?

And there is no Jew or Gentile in Christ. But the Sons of God.

The synagogue of Satan is filled with those who reject Christ.

Anyhow.

Now, I am going to give you a good reason why the Popes are not exactly what they claim to be:

And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.

https://youtu.be/G8qOMY6CQ4k?t=47s

Best to listen to all 28:30 minutes, or you can just get to the meat at 6:30.

Dr. Michael Heiser: http://drmsh.com/

Blogger S. Thermite August 25, 2016 8:59 PM  

If Ashkenazi Jews have Italian blood, and Jews and Romans killed Jesus, does that mean there's a chance that Ashkenazis have dual citizenship in the deicide club?

Anonymous Takin' a Look August 25, 2016 9:02 PM  

@Austin Ballast

Stop worshipping Cyrus Scofield. You aren't getting (((Raptured))).

Blogger Murray August 25, 2016 9:04 PM  

What meant "a Jew" in 30 AD and what is meant by "a Jew" today is not necessarily the same thing.

Bingo. Jesus wasn't a Jew in the modern sense of the term. Modern Jews are Pharisees, with all that implies: multiple layers of Talmudic "interpretation", endless purity regulations far beyond those of the Torah, and (very often) a seething hatred of Christ and his Church. He and his family were faithful Jews of the Old Covenant, but that religion ceased (as someone else pointed out) with the tearing of the Temple veil on Good Friday.

Blogger Josh August 25, 2016 9:05 PM  

You ought to pay attention here...

To what?

Anonymous r August 25, 2016 9:10 PM  

The word used in the Bible for the group we call "Jews" today is "Pharisees". By the time Revelation was written, they had definitively renounced their own people's god, preferring to make an idol out of the Mosaic law, earning them their illustrious title "synagogue of Satan". It's unfortunate that they ended up being allowed to use the names "Jew" and "Israel", since in the Bible these words refer to the people who belong to God.

Blogger Unknown August 25, 2016 9:11 PM  

The Matthew lineage goes through Joseph, the Luke lineage account goes through Heli, Mary's father. Both from the tribe of Judah. This was [presumably] done to avoid the blood curse on the particularly evil Judean king Jeconiah. There are fairly well known legal rules for inheritance across matrilineal lines, such as that with Zelophehad's daughters.

Blogger Russ Fryman August 25, 2016 9:13 PM  

The Matthew lineage goes through Joseph, the Luke lineage account goes through Heli, Mary's father. Both from the tribe of Judah. This was [presumably] done to avoid the blood curse on the particularly evil Judean king Jeconiah. There are fairly well known legal rules for inheritance across matrilineal lines, such as that with Zelophehad's daughters.

Anonymous andon August 25, 2016 9:15 PM  

I don't like erickson

Blogger Phillip George August 25, 2016 9:20 PM  

Stop worshipping Cyrus Scofield.

that really is yesterday's mantra. It's well over this now.

Daniel was told to seal up the vision, till or for when? eg: No one knows the day or the hour can mean

1. a direct reference to Yom Teruah
2. it happened in 70 AD when the Roman general Titus killed a million or thereabouts
3. no-one knows

because the answer was to a compound set of questions it really required much more thinking.

The fact these three interpretations are so wildly different means we look elsewhere for affirmations. And Scofield isn't elsewhere. He's a footnote in history. Likewise general relativity doesn't contradict Newtonian physics, it augments it.

Blogger rcocean August 25, 2016 9:21 PM  

Does Erickson know that from 325-638 AD, Jewruslem was an entirely Christian city and Jews couldn't be in the City after sundown? Or that the Pope and Church approved of kicking the Jews out of various countries for almost 1500 years after his death. Or almost no respectable theologian believed - until the 20th century - that Christians needed to support Zionism. The Crusaders killed every Jew they found in Israel in 1200.

EE is just talking out of his ass - ass usual.

Blogger rcocean August 25, 2016 9:22 PM  

And of course, the whole idea that Bernie Goldstein from Minsk should be treated like he's a 21st Century Moses or Jesus, has to be the most comic idea ever, ever.

Blogger rcocean August 25, 2016 9:26 PM  

Erickson is just a money-mad clown. He's been bought and sold so many times, I wonder why anyone takes him seriously. He's now getting paid by a Anti-Trump, Left-wing PAC. Before he was a tool of Salem Communication and CNN. Who he's going to whore for next is anyone's guess.

Blogger Phillip George August 25, 2016 9:29 PM  

Jews for Jesus, emphasize the for Jesus bit.

Paul said all Israel would be saved. He also says not all Israel is Israel. The allusion to Revelations, which presumably hadn't been written yet is compelling.

It's an omelette. IMO. Brave man who claims to know it already. cheers.

Blogger residentMoron August 25, 2016 9:31 PM  

@37

No, that covenant ceased, because one party to it murdered the other.

That religion, the "true religion" of "all scripture" continues as it has from the beginning. True religion never ends.

A synagogue is a house of prayer. So if you take Jesus' own words regarding the temple, which he actually quotes from the OT ("My house shall be a house of prayer for all people!") it actually says "My house shall be a synagogue for all people!"

The synagogue of Satan is composed of those who worship him.

God's house, or synagogue, is composed of all those who serve Him.

God is not concerned with buildings, nor with human hierarchies. Consider, for example, this:

"Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God,"

God does not dwell in buildings made by human hands. Know you not that YOU are the temple of the holy spirit? God's synagogue is his people. Not buildings, not human hierarchies, not tax-exempt corporations.

Blogger SultanOfSuede August 25, 2016 9:32 PM  

Erickson just proves that the cons have a playbook that is decades old. Remember Bush? How evangelicals who were appointed by him figured out that he wasn't serious about their issues? I think one even wrote a book about how betrayed the pro-life movement was by the cons about 7 or 10 years ago.

Nothing has changed for the cons and that is why they are irrelevant.

Blogger VFM #7191 August 25, 2016 9:32 PM  

Austin Ballast wrote:but I choose to believe that Jesus really will return, what He spoke of is yet to come and the Church will not be here when He pours out His wrath.

Then you choose to make Jesus Christ a liar.

Matthew 24:33-34 (Jesus speaking to his disciples): "So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

Blogger SultanOfSuede August 25, 2016 9:32 PM  

Erickson just proves that the cons have a playbook that is decades old. Remember Bush? How evangelicals who were appointed by him figured out that he wasn't serious about their issues? I think one even wrote a book about how betrayed the pro-life movement was by the cons about 7 or 10 years ago.

Nothing has changed for the cons and that is why they are irrelevant.

Blogger Phillip George August 25, 2016 9:40 PM  

I support Israel like a king with senile dementia. Can't quite live with him, and can't get rid of him.

for the exact analogy see Nebuchadnezzar's 7 yr and/ or the madness of King George.

Blogger Phillip George August 25, 2016 9:42 PM  

@7191, I think you'll need to spend a little more time on that. Maybe a month?

Anonymous Godfrey August 25, 2016 9:42 PM  

@51
One thing has changed for the cons. They're now irrelevant. The con job doesn't work anymore.

Blogger Robert Divinity August 25, 2016 9:43 PM  

Erickson is just a money-mad clown. He's been bought and sold so many times, I wonder why anyone takes him seriously. He's now getting paid by a Anti-Trump, Left-wing PAC. Before he was a tool of Salem Communication and CNN. Who he's going to whore for next is anyone's guess.

He's every fat, attention-starved misfit in high school who wanted to be a DJ and somehow or another made it to a big market for a few years. Before Erickson imploded, major Republican political figures would court his approval. Whether that speaks more to his hustling abilities or to their whoring abilities aside, that's a pathetic commentary on the GOP...naaahhh, it's just piling on a terminally ill puppy.

Anonymous Godfrey August 25, 2016 9:44 PM  

@19
Oh, that was good. You're right. I stand corrected and gladly so.

Anonymous Didas Kalos August 25, 2016 9:44 PM  

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ (Messiah, Anointed One) for it , it, it the Gospel, is the power of God unto salvation. (deliverance from sin and all it's curses), to the Jew first and also to the Gentile. The Jews (Hebrews) were the first to hear the Gospel.
Any theology that is void of POWER is not the Gospel of Christ. It's a watered down form. Anyone who tells a 'jew' or any other person that they can be saved any other way than repentance and faith in Jesus Christ and His work on the Cross is a false prophet. People would be way better served to read, read, and re-read the Bible instead of listening or reading other people's books about the Bible. It's the living Word of God and it will set you free if you believe it.

Anonymous Takin' a Look August 25, 2016 9:47 PM  

@ Josh

To what a Mischling does. Unless you have a better story?

Anonymous JacksCarlton August 25, 2016 9:50 PM  

I love when I hear that "chosen people" liine. The term used for "chosen" in the OT is the same word used for "elect" in the NT (by way of th LXX). So - yes we are.

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros August 25, 2016 9:52 PM  

The Jews who are not Jews are what Jesus referred to in Luke 20:9-19 in the vineyard parable. The priests and teachers of the law killed the Son, so the vineyard has been taken away and given to others.

As in Galatians 3, we of the faith are the children of Abraham. We the real Jews now. And those Jews who followed Christ, of course.

Those who followed the Christ-like are the Synagogue of Satan, who claim to follow the Law and the Prophets but reject the One to whom they pointed. They did not cease their evil ways that the one they killed preached against.

"If you hurt kids, on the day of judgment you're gonna wish it was as pleasant as millstone lynching." - Jesus

"The Torah says you should not lie with a man, but he's not a man until he hits puberty, right? So it's not gay if he's under... Let's say 9 years old. Also you can officially marry a three-year-old girl through intercourse, but any younger than that doesn't count because they keep bleeding after the first time. -Talmud

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros August 25, 2016 9:55 PM  

"Those who followed the Christ-killers"

Blogger WATYF August 25, 2016 10:04 PM  

The Jews claim Mary was a Levite. Moreover, there appears to be some distinctions between Jew and being a member of the actual tribe of Judah.

It's true that it isn't limited to the tribe of Judah alone as The Kingdom of Judah consisted of Judah, Benjamin, and portions of Levi. But this isn't too particularly relevant to the question of Jesus, as the genealogies in the Gospels trace Him back to Judah directly and the are several portions of scripture that make it clear that He was Jewish. It made a pretty big deal of it, actually, since it was necessary in order to fulfill prophecy.

So, Jesus was a Jew, His ministry was to the Jews, our own salvation is stated as being "from the Jews" and "for the Jew first then for the Gentile (or Greek)", and the ministry of Christ was so Jew-centric that it required a direct revelation from God (to Peter) for the apostles to even realize that Jesus saved anyone other than Jews. And in the end, after a period of "hardening" (for the sake of the Gentiles), the Jews will be grafted back in to the vine for the sake of their covenant (Romans 11).

As for whether the "Jews" or "Judaism" are different on this way or that from those of the Bible, meh... don't care. I'm only addressing comments calling into question whether or not Jesus should be considered a Jew as the term was used back then.

WATYF

Blogger Were-Puppy August 25, 2016 10:04 PM  

EE is the Super Cuck. back when I used to hear him on the radio, half the time he sounded drunk.

Anyway, this OP somehow ended up with me reading almost the entire book of Revelation just now. My brain is aswirl with apocalyptic images.

Blogger JACIII August 25, 2016 10:08 PM  

Where is our in house rabbi when we need him?

Blogger JACIII August 25, 2016 10:08 PM  

Where is our in house rabbi when we need him?

Blogger Lazarus August 25, 2016 10:20 PM  

Erick Erickson ‏@EWErickson
Oh no, alt-Reich! It turns out the creator of heaven and earth is a Jew! Literally!! You are not His chosen people, they are!

You see how much schmutz can be in one tweet? Whether Jesus was "literally" a Jew or not, has no bearing on who is chosen for what or when. No bearing at all. There is no connection to the two statements.

Its just stupid.

Blogger Elder Son August 25, 2016 10:39 PM  

The root word for Jew is Judah. Who is Judah? From what lineage did Christ derive. From the son of Jacob (Israel) (the son through lineage of Abraham) who is Judah.

Blogger residentMoron August 25, 2016 10:42 PM  

But just to add to the point that the Jews were chosen as God's messengers of the everlasting Gospel, not its sole recipients, Jesus' ancestry is traced all the way back to Adam, "who was the son of God.

Christians, likewise, are chosen as the new messengers of God's Gospel, not as its sole recipients. We save ourselves by saving others.

Blogger Austin Ballast August 25, 2016 10:43 PM  

VFM #7191 wrote:Austin Ballast wrote:but I choose to believe that Jesus really will return, what He spoke of is yet to come and the Church will not be here when He pours out His wrath.

Then you choose to make Jesus Christ a liar.

Matthew 24:33-34 (Jesus speaking to his disciples): "So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.


Not a chance. He was speaking to Jews at the time and they are the ones it applies to. It had a first application in AD 70, and a future one yet to come.

I will not be around for outpouring His wrath. I may (unfortunately) be around for man pouring out his (and her) wrath.

Takin,

I don't worship Schofield and I don't believe I have ever read much of his notes. I follow what is written, not just a key verses I like.

Blogger residentMoron August 25, 2016 10:43 PM  

P.S. Adam was not Jewish. He wasn't even circumcised.

Blogger The Deuce August 25, 2016 10:56 PM  

VD wrote:The Jews claim Mary was a Levite. Moreover, there appears to be some distinctions between Jew and being a member of the actual tribe of Judah. For example, the Cohens are supposed to be Levites, which would mean they are not Jews, but Israelites.

Even assuming Mary was a Levite, were Levites descended from the Levites of Judah's territory not considered Jews during the time of Jesus? We know that Benjamites were (since Paul was a Benjamite and also called himself a Jew).

Anonymous andon August 25, 2016 11:01 PM  

67. Blogger Elder Son August 25, 2016 10:39 PM
The root word for Jew is Judah.


I was gonna ask that. I thought maybe jew was related to jewelry

Blogger Mountain Man August 25, 2016 11:05 PM  

Modern Judaism means going to private school, followed by an ivy league college studying to be a doctor,lawyer or banker and then getting out and making a lot of money. Living in a dense urban region of the East Coast (or Vermont) and celebrating Hanakuh, Passover and BarMitzvah while religiously voting Democrat and supporting any and all liberal causes.

Anonymous Takin' a Look August 25, 2016 11:09 PM  

@ Austin Ballast

I'm often mind-boggled by Christians on the internet. The Rapture is Heresy, a few hours on goggle will clear that up.

It truly is as if the average Christian is a stupid sheep and not as Christ commands us, "wise as serpents, gentle as doves".we are to be sheep in His World only, not in Satan's World.

Blogger Mountain Man August 25, 2016 11:11 PM  

There was that time back in the 90s when I was tripping a lot and I could have sworn I was raptured at least 2 or 3 different times

Anonymous Takin' a Look August 25, 2016 11:18 PM  

@ Mountain Man.

I got a chuckle outta that! In this world, we are to be wary wild mouflon and Jungle hens, goats if need be. The predators are many.

Blogger Phillip George August 25, 2016 11:22 PM  

@74. when two angels said, in like manner as you have seen Him go you will see him come again? What particular bit of that is heresy?

stupid mean stupefied. I reserve that for philosophical materialist who think frogs turn into princes over a billion years of no-one watching.

But if I meet your criteria for stupid I'll wear it like a yellow arm band star of david.

Anonymous Takin' a Look August 25, 2016 11:34 PM  

@ Phillip George

Oh? Does it matter if they see Him above or below? They will still see Him arrive in like manner again.

Careful with your tut-tutting, it's the same shit that gets Christians in trouble over Sodom and Gomorrah. They STILL think it was about faggots or inhospitality when it was about drug-dealing.

Blogger Kentucky Packrat August 25, 2016 11:43 PM  

The Rapture is so far off topic, I am just going to suggest Googling David Reagan, and reading his defenses of the principle of the Rapture. I went from post-trib to conditionally pre-trib because of his logic. ("Conditionally" because I won't doubt God if I'm still here when a seven-year treaty gets signed with Israel....)

Paul makes the whole "Jews are more special" fact clear with his vine parable. We Christians are grafted as wild branches onto the trunk of Israel as adopted children of Abraham. Had Israel (corporately) not rejected Christ, that wouldn't have happened, so we have to be grateful that it did. However, some Jews/Israelis are grafted back (Messianic Jews) already, and the rest can be at any time. Before Christ returns, he will reserve at least 144000 virgin Jewish men to witness to the Jews alive at the time (and to the rest of the world), and most of the Jews alive at that time will repent and turn to the Lord God of Israel.

Now, that does not mean that we have any obligations to approve every (or even any) of the actions of the secular state of Israel. (God often didn't like the Old Testament version either.) The current Talmudic religion called Judaism only vaguely mimics the Mosaic laws God put in place for Israel at Sinai (and as has been said before, cannot be practiced now without the Temple). There is no "two covenant" system, and the only way to salvation is by acknowledging Jesus as Lord and Messiah.

It does mean that we acknowledge that God has a special place in his heart for those He considers sons of Abraham, and that He has chosen to add us Christians to that list.

Blogger Solaire Of Astora August 25, 2016 11:54 PM  

Only 12,000 of the 144,000 are Jewish. Not even Moses was Jewish (he was a Levite and these distinctions matter, a lot). Some people from the northern tribes might've remained in the land but you can not discount those who truly disappeared from the face of history. The elect can be from any group I am sure, only God could follow generations like that.

Anonymous Takin' a Look August 25, 2016 11:55 PM  

@ Kentucky Packrat

What we have for the 144,000 is Karaites, (200,000) and about 2,000 other non-Talmudics. The rest of the official 15 million and unofficial 200 million Jews is....what? The majority are Talmudists in one shape,form or another.

Blogger residentMoron August 26, 2016 12:10 AM  

@69 Kentucky Packrat

Jesus himself denies the rapture as pre-trib, with his reference to the days of Noah.

Noah and his family were preserved through the flood, not magicked away before it.

Blogger bob k. mando August 26, 2016 12:13 AM  

10. WATYF August 25, 2016 8:19 PM
He also made it clear that His ministry was "to the Jews", of which He was one, and He acknowledged that He was the King of the Jews.



oh yeah?

well the OT makes it clear that the Jews are to be preaching the Word of Yahweh to the world; ie - their God REQUIRES them to proselytize for Jehovah.

see the book of Jonah. realize that Nineveh is a goyish city, which is why Jonah ( a picture of the recalcitrant nation of Hebrews refusing the Duty their God has laid on them ) is so eager to see Nineveh destroyed.

Blogger Phillip George August 26, 2016 12:20 AM  

general tribulation Vs a particular Tribulation Vs Wrath Vs Day of the Lord Vs Day of vengeance Vs In one hour destruction has come.

@79 , I suggest the Venn diagram is more complex.
When days are shortened and there is a delay, and then No more delay and silence in heaven [may mean suspension of time] I suggest, as before, nearly everyone is wrong.

when Jesus was dedicated only two people in Jerusalem, two old people?, Anna and Simeon had worked it out.

It makes for long odds statistically. Two people out of a million in greater Jerusalem?

Anyway its kind of amusing Germany is saying store up food for a 10 crisis and Rosh Hashanah to Yom Kippur comes in at ten days. If illuminati are genuinely obsessive with their dates they pulled that out of a metaphorical slight of hand magician's hat.

Blogger Kentucky Packrat August 26, 2016 12:28 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Phillip George August 26, 2016 12:32 AM  

@82 - the illustration there is that Noah knew when Methuselah died it was about to happen. He also knew Enoch was taken. Enoch is direct the rapture. Elijah is the rapture and Elisha is the left behind.

but Noah also is "a" rapture-type as in riding above the circle of water/ aka heavens divided by/ from those caught in Judgement below.

He also does a year in the Ark inwhich a bridegroom is to spend a year off with His new bride.

Blogger The Hammer August 26, 2016 12:36 AM  

I'm actually genuinely curious how people explain those two concepts from Revelation 3:9, whether they are preterists or more conventional eschatologists.

I don't think the eschatology is the driving issue. Many preterists are replacement theologians (Church replaces Israel), but it's not inherent to it. While I am a preterist, I think there is Israel and the Commonwealth of Israel grafted on to it (the Gentile believers - commonly called the Church for most purposes in post-biblical theological systems).

At the time of the writing of the NT, the Greek words now translated as "church" and "synagogue" could be used interchangeably for "assembly".

The ethnicity "Judean" was claimed by those even not descended from tribes of the Kingdom of Judah because without a Temple and records system that went with temples in the ANE, they didn't have good genealogical records like the Southern Kindgom. They were also probably assimilated at much higher rates to their conquerors.

"Jew" as an ethnicity is much later but is in line with "Judean", so the translation is somewhat anachronistic. The tribe of Judah would have had the most honor too, which would motivate that self-identification.

So yes, Jesus would have been considered a Judean, of the tribe of Judah, then Galilean, and finally a Nazarene. This somewhat similar to the layers of identity you wrote about recently on towns in Italy.

This gets to us to Revelation 3. Messianic Jews and Christian Gentiles didn't stop attending synagogue (in addition to solely Messianic gatherings on Sundays), and they weren't formally barred from the synagogue by Jewish authorites until ~100 AD. We know it was formalized under Domitian's reign that while Judaism would still had a legal exception to only worship God as long as they paid a tax, Christianity was now illegal for both Jews and Gentiles.

Hence there was now motive everywhere for the non-Messianic Jews to inform on Messianic Jews and Gentiles in their congregation since they could lose their special legal privilege for harboring Christians (and I'd wager this was going on since Nero, but under the threat of a formal legal decree).

Apparently the Philadelphian Jews gave in and accused their brethren to the Romans (and Satan means "accuser of the brethern"). Jesus' rebuke means they are no longer worthy of the name "Jew" for doing so.

Blogger Kentucky Packrat August 26, 2016 12:46 AM  

@81: You can't restrict the 144k to the Karaites, because there aren't 144k Karaites (and especially 144k virgin Karaite men) left in the world. I have little doubt that some of the 144k will come from their ranks (they are much closer to God than Talmudic Jews, although still missing Christ), but they can't be the only source.

I think the verse makes it clear that the 144k will be called out of those who self-identify as "Jewish", both from the religious traditions and from non-religious/secular backgrounds. That's the miracle; like the 7000 God reserved from Ba'al, these 144k young men will stay pure in an uncaring world and will turn Israel back to God for good. Since this is an important part of Christ's return plan, I have no problem wanting it to happen soon and very soon.

Also, it's Vox's playground, so he has every right to be pedantic about his language. For everyone else, please get over it. You sound like KJV-only people screaming about slay versus kill versus murder. I don't care if King James used slay to mean justified homicide and kill was unjustified homicide; the 21st century doesn't, and it's time to get over it. We have the NIV, NKJV, ESV, etc. for a good reason: language changes and moves. In 2016, the English word to identify descendants of Jacob bin Isaac bin Abraham is "Jewish". It may be historically imprecise, but it is what is used. Get past it.

Blogger residentMoron August 26, 2016 12:50 AM  

@86 Phillip George

That rendering requires that Jesus flips his verb usage in the middle of his statement.

He's talking directly about the people who drowned when he says that they were eating and drinking, and knew not until the flood came and took them all away, i.e. killed them.

Then he says that the coming of the Son of Man (i.e. his return) will be the same.

One will be taken (killed) and one will be left (alive).

And it all happens in the one day.

Ironically, it's the mad dispensationalists of the Dallas Theological Seminary type, who carp at everyone else and proclaim their Systematic Theology, with their "context, context, context" mantra, who turn and say that Jesus wasn't at all systematic and the immediate context of their favourite proof text is irrelevant to its meaning.

I don't buy it.

Blogger bethyada August 26, 2016 12:50 AM  

Joseph was of the line of David thru Solomon. Mary was of the line of David thru Nathan (Luke). Either way he was of the line of David who was of Judah.

The southern tribes were Judah, Benjamin and some Levites, as well as some Israelites from the northern tribes. The northern tribes named Ephraim included the other Israelite tribes (eg. Dan, Asher). They were predominantly exiled to Assyria and didn't return. The remainder in Ephraim (capital Samaria) intermarried with the people sent to Ephraim from Assyria and became the Samaritans.

The southern tribes were exiled to Babylon and some (not all) returned. They were predominantly of Judah but included the Benjaminites, many Levites, and some of the other tribes. As the main tribe was Judah the people and the land are named Judean or Jewish; this would include the Israelites not from Judah.

Jesus was Jewish in both senses, of the people and of Judah by both lines.

He was called a Galilean probably because of his accent growing up in Galilee, though possibly mistakenly so by those who were unfamiliar with his ancestry.

Blogger Phillip George August 26, 2016 12:54 AM  

@87 . Very few people would stand up in public and call themselves a practicing satanist. An Aleister Crowley type is an a exception to the general rule. People practicing human sacrifice tend to keep it in the family. That mutilated part eaten bodies tend to turn up from time to time isn't a CNN front pager. Homicide squads and people who debrief ritual abuse non lethal victims actually have trouble getting anyone to believe the actual barbarity. That said, would it matter to anyone here is there were a secret cabal of satanists who privately identified as Jewish? And intermittently killed in non war related scenarios too bizarre to describe?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 26, 2016 12:54 AM  

The Church is the heir of the 1st century Jews. Yes, Christ was a Jew, rather obviously from scripture. To deny it is an act of willful stupidity.

However, the old covenant was ended when the workers in the vineyard killed the son of the owner. so He turned them out and gave the place to others.
A user on another trhead sent me this, which fits right in;
Joe Keenan wrote:@48 From 30 AD to 70 AD the Temple sacrifices were rejected, the black lot turned up in the left hand 40 consecutive times. The Temple sacrifices were rejected as the perfect sacrifice has been made, Christ. See: http://www.fivedoves.com/light/4miracles.htm

It is a matter of historical fact that the Christian Church was originally made up of Jews. After the temple was destroyed, the process of conversion accelerated until only the Karaites (and a similar population in Persia) and the Pharisees were left to claim the moniker of Judaism. The problem is that, by resoundingly rejecting the Son of the Living God, and reaffirming that rejection with every generation, they hae broken their covenant.

So the modern Jew is not the Jew of Jesus' time. Not genetically, not spiritually, not ontologically, not essentially.

Blogger Phillip George August 26, 2016 1:01 AM  

@89 Jesus' first coming split a single verse in half. A bruised reed he would not break, but there is that "until"...

He comes in two events. Son of Joseph and Son of David. Two events described in a single verse..

Likewise the second coming also, at least two events. In mathematics it's a fractal. Think of tree branches.



Blogger Phillip George August 26, 2016 1:04 AM  

@92 yes Snidely but there is the time dependent "blinded in part until the fulness of the gentiles comes in"

which I suspect is Oct 02 +/- 48 hours

Blogger residentMoron August 26, 2016 1:19 AM  

@93

Yes, but He's describing his second coming, and the destruction accompanying it. He's saying that his people will be preserved through that destruction, as Noah and his family were.

There's a nice poetic quality to your floating above concept, but they were physically still on the planet, in fact.

So I can happily accept a metaphoric rapturing, with a literal left behind.

Blogger Elder Son August 26, 2016 1:30 AM  

Historically imprecise is not what we are after. What we are after, is what historically did it mean to those at the time it was written. Through their eyes, not ours. Pre-scientific biblical thinking? God communicated through people, just as they were, where they were, when they were.

The first time Jew is mentioned in the bible is 2 Kings 16:6. There are now two kingdoms. Israel and Judah. Judah reigned in Jerusalem. Then Rezin king of Syria and Pekah son of Remaliah king of Israel came up to Jerusalem to war: and they besieged Ahaz, but could not overcome him. At that time Rezin king of Syria recovered Elath to Syria, and drave the Jews from Elath: and the Syrians came to Elath, and dwelt there unto this day. Jew = Judah.

Anyhow: historical context.

https://youtu.be/GVBxIC4caHI

Blogger Jordan179 August 26, 2016 2:05 AM  

Moreover, my understanding is that Jesus was a Galilean, not a Judean. However, I don't see how it matters much, considering that we're in virgin birth territory anyhow.

Jesus was religiously most definitely a Jew of the 1st Century (which is not exactly the wame thing as modern Jews). He claims so repeatedly in the New Testament.

In terms of descent, there is a whole lineage tracing him from David, though ... yeah, it's a patrilineage and this gets into the whole question of the Virgin Birth. But he is descended from Mary. Unless of course you assume that there is no descent through the female ...

... which the Classical Ancients actually believed! But then, they didn't understand conception.

The Galilileeans may not have been considered Judeans, but they were Jews. For some values of Judaism.

Christianity doesn't start until Jesus preaches, and even then it starts as a Jewish sect. It didn't really start to split off until Paul of Tarsus.

Anonymous Frankenstein McBadperson August 26, 2016 2:11 AM  

Ugh. This just keeps getting sillier and sillier.

There is only one way that the solar system works: the planets go around the sun. They always did that, no matter what Ptolemy or anybody else thought. There might be five or thirty or ninety-nine theories about how the solar system works, but there's only one actual way that it actually works. Same with religion.

Blogger Phillip George August 26, 2016 2:11 AM  

@95, there were 4 prominent named Jews living in Babylon when Nebuchadnezzar put out a decree that everyone worship the beast.

Where was Daniel?

All four were saved but only three went into the fire. Daniel at that stage represented the Rapture.

When Lot was given one night's notice of the coming destruction it was also a biblical type for destruction of the Earth. Three people were saved, Lot and his two daughters, but in type where was Abraham? He was already "on high" looking down at the valley of the very shadow of death. At this point in his life he represents the rapture.

Now there's another aspect. That of trying to extend an analogy or parable beyond it's elastic limit.

Eg. The good Samaritan was someone from Samaria. It makes no claims over his ethnicity. When Jonah spent three days and nights in the belly of a great fish, it doesn't say that the physical earth constituting Joseph of Arimathea's tomb should be opened like gutting a fish.

Parables work because they teach the precept. Not because they give names, places and times.

The second coming is at least two events. Like the first, it was staged, sequential and multilayered, and that's not what people has expected in their day. They missed it because of dogma.

Blogger residentMoron August 26, 2016 2:17 AM  

Time will tell.

Blogger yoghi.llama August 26, 2016 2:24 AM  

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

And Revelations was written by someone or other on shrooms.

Blogger Phillip George August 26, 2016 2:33 AM  

back to sleep @101, this isn't for you. You can wake in 1000 years, though it may not be pleasant.

dream of the earth being carried on 4tortoises if the delusion brings some temporary relief. or frogs becoming princes via random beneficial mutations accumulating via selection processes Haldane couldn't theorize.

Blogger guest August 26, 2016 3:08 AM  

Vox wrote:

"Some of you are missing the point. What meant "a Jew" in 30 AD and what is meant by "a Jew" today is not necessarily the same thing. For example, most of modern Judaism came after the advent of Christianity, so calling Christianity "Judeo-Christian" with any reference to modern Judaism is clearly incorrect."

True.

After the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE, not a single modern day "Jew" can prove that they were descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. All of those records were lost.

Blogger Elder Son August 26, 2016 3:11 AM  

You have to remember that foreigners intermarried with the Israelite population that was still in and around Samaria after Assyria took captive the ten tribes of Israel. And, their religion eventually assimilated both Judaism and idolatry.

But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

SNIP

“Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

It was a trap. And Christ poked them in the eyes.

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites!

http://biblehub.com/bsb/matthew/23.htm

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 26, 2016 3:13 AM  

yoghi.llama wrote:http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/
And Revelations was written by someone or other on shrooms.

I have considerably more evidence or Jesus' existence than I have for yours. Go choke on an exhaust pipe.

Blogger Elder Son August 26, 2016 3:26 AM  

After the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE, not a single modern day "Jew" can prove that they were descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. All of those records were lost.

That includes many Israelite's returning from the various exiles/conquests.

Anonymous whipley snidelash August 26, 2016 3:48 AM  

Where to start?
First clue of the mistaken is that "jew" comes from Judah.
Right.
And Paris doesn't have Parisians
but Levi tribe is composed of Levites
Benjamin is composed of Benjamites
Dan is composed of Danites
Gideon had Gideonites
Sodom had ...

Get it?
Judah had JUDAHITES

Those of TRIBES had no shortened namenclatura, as it were.

Residents of areas were also considered, but the Messiah was to be known as a
NAZARENE
so he went to Nazereth to follow the ancient prophecy.
Him being from the tribe of Judah made him a Judahite by lineage.

Those who dwelt in JUDEA were known as Judeans that may have been conveniently shortened to "jews", regardless of lineage, but serendipity can allow a confusion to help a usurper group to make a false claim to a lineage by hiding the trail after the tribes were scattered and lost most of their own historical knowledge, and thus were ripe for allowing their ignorance to be used against them to grant some (((chosen))) reverence to be placed upon them as an obligation to their (((betters))).
Let us veer off track for a trice and realize that the "J" is actually a fairly modern letter that hadn't existed for another 1500+ years from the birth of the Savior. See that fact in any decent dictionary for proof.
Him known as what might have been recently transliterated as "Joshua" when the actual name as given is YASHUA (YAHWEH IS SALVATION) as in all biblical names have a meaning within, as most modern surnames, such as SMITH have a meaning or trace a lineage (Johnson = son of John)

Considering that the J letter was not in use for most of an eon, the Y has remained for the sound used in a name with a J in place in certain languages to this day, such as when you say

"Jorgenson" in German - "yorgenson" or
"Jesus" in Spanish = "hay-zoos".

Now think of that last one for more than 2 seconds and realize that came from the statement
HAIL ZEUS
and coincidentally who had a celebrated birthday that at one time came on...
wait for it...
December 25, time of the winter solstice a couple of thousand years ago or so, from what I've heard.
What a neat trick to foist a fake name for the MESSIAH and throw in a fake birthday wrapped in a pagan celebration of seasons, an abominable and irreligious aspect of man following after the fallen one, not the RISEN ONE.


Note that the CREATOR YAHWEH is stating that HIS GIVEN NAME HE USES FOR the fallen one, sometimes referred to a beelzebub is LORD, also referencing the lord of the flies, or god of this world.
YAHWEH is not LORD, especially since HE stated it as the name of the adversary, but all too often it is used as a "substitute" in nominal churchianity that refuses to use the Creator's Name, and I've even seen where such is stated in the preface in some recent scripture versions.
Basically, it says that the name of the CREATOR is almost universally understood to be YAHWEH (or TETRAGRAMMATON YHWH), but "we" don't use that term, we use LORD.
How righteous, how pious, how bilious.

If you take a close look at publishing house names putting together these scriptures, note that many are doubtless related to the (((eskimos))) of antiquity, since where better to control the dispersal of mistaken salvatory ideals and help usher in the coming of the (((fallen one))) that many that have been led astray to believe is just a fable, not a mighty fiend of most ancient rebellion.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge(c)2016 August 26, 2016 3:56 AM  

may not be the last word exactly but wouldn't it be rayciss of us to say Jews can't be practicing satanists?

why, that would be bigotry

Blogger chris August 26, 2016 4:20 AM  

"Moreover, my understanding is that Jesus was a Galilean, not a Judean."

But to be the Messiah he had to be descended from the line of King David, i.e. Jews.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge(c)2016 August 26, 2016 4:24 AM  

but to be King of Kings, He had to be David's LORD. The LORD said to my Lord.

Blogger yoghi.llama August 26, 2016 5:17 AM  

Snidely you have not a shred of evidence that your Cosmic Jewish Zombie Magician ever existed, just like the Taiyaye have none that their al-Insān al-Kamil was flesh and blood.

You can't even bind the 4 resurrection accounts into a sequence of events that could occur in this universe, Flatland, Cloud Cuckoo Land, or any plane of existence that ever operated by time and causality.

The root cause of Christian and Muslim antisemitism is the same. You both plagiarized their religion and your karma is to spend centuries trapped in an inferiority complex, trying to prove to yourself: weez the real Jews.

It's a pathetic spectacle I tell you, as sad and gormless as the Mormons and Afrocentric revisionists making their respective claims to be the real Jews.

Blogger Phillip George August 26, 2016 5:39 AM  

Flatland, Cloud Cuckoo Land

no tin foil hat wearer?
I haven't heard this stuff for years. The professionals gave up on it a long time ago.

the four tortoises. If NASA hadn't suppressed the evidence we'd all believe in the tortoises or turtles?

Ps. residentMoron,

in 1933 William Branham prophesied the driveless car and a cruel woman takes the stage in America.

Tonight's general world news bulletins:

Singapore have six driveless Uber taxis on the road now. The trial begins is a metaphor for the whole world. And is just before Elul

Strange days indeed.

Blogger Phillip George August 26, 2016 6:19 AM  

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/18myou0kz7ujejpg.jpg

this is the image that NASA don't want you to see.

Armstrong took this secret to the grave.

Blogger Joe Keenan August 26, 2016 6:30 AM  

Towards the history of the Jewish people see, The Invention of the Jewish People by, Shlomo Sand: https://www.amazon.com/Invention-Jewish-People-Shlomo-Sand/dp/1844676234/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472207148&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=shlmo+sand The origin of the ancient Jews is not in Palestine, they came from without, they are actually "related" to the Spartans, I've wondered what that means as the Dorians/Spartans have a obscure origin themselves.

Blogger JaimeInTexas August 26, 2016 7:30 AM  

Beheadings, quartering, burnings at the stake, fed to wild animals, etc.
What you think God's wrath is and what God's wrath is seem to differ.

Blogger Mick Jagger gathers no Mosque August 26, 2016 7:45 AM  

1st Peter 29

Sorry ace

I AM part of the chosen people

Blogger rumpole5 August 26, 2016 8:16 AM  

The Lord God made irrevocable promises to Abraham regarding the offspring of Isaac. Those promises are still unfolding regarding the Jewish people today. There still is "profit of circumcision" (see Romans 3). The very fact that there are this many comments to this posting suggests that the tiny number of present day Jews have some sort of "mass" (gravitas?) around which the rest of humanity is swirling. Why so much comment and controversy, here and elsewhere, over this small group?

Blogger Bede Jarrow August 26, 2016 8:23 AM  

It is interesting to note that Galilee in Solomon times was given to the Phoenicians and settled by them. The region continued to have this cosmopolitan character as both jews and gentiles in the first century (and actually to this day as the region of Galilee is less than 50% Jewish). It is difficult to estimate, but the jews may have actually been a slight minority in the region at the time.

The Romans had made massive investments in the region with the construction and reconstruction of Tiberias and Sepphoris. Nonetheless the Jews and Gentiles probably only interacted mainly for commercial activities. Presumably, Joseph was a skilled laborer (a carpenter) that migrated to the region from Bethleham, perhaps for seasonal work, and lived in the small hamlet of Nazareth (a mere 3 miles from Sepphoris). The reason he had to go back to Bethleham for the census tax is because probably he held taxable property either through land or livestock (or forementioned, he was more seasonal than a permanent resident). it really isn't that difficult.

The connection and importance of showing both lineage in the Gospel(even though Jesus was not the biological son of Joseph obviously) is that Jesus was priest, prophet and king, the trifecta for near east prophecy.

Was Jesus a Jew, yes. Is a Jew then, the same as now, mostly no. Many of the characteristics of Rabbinical Judaism were developed in the period and Jesus did belong to those groups (He did read at the synagogue after all).

However, the divergence between this Judaism and modern rabbinical Judaism finally took hold after the destruction of the Second Temple and the later failure of the Bar Kokhba revolt, where issues of how to preserve and what it meant to be a Jew was more important than independence or the temple worship that was characteristic of the Jews prior to the Temple destruction.

Anonymous karsten August 26, 2016 9:14 AM  

The unjustly but predictably derided Houston Stewart Chamberlain [derided by (((guess who?)))] has an excellent chapter on this in his masterwork, "Foundations of the Nineteenth Century." TL;DR - Indeed, Jesus being Galilean, he was likely not a Jew. It's an informative chapter (actually, the whole two-volume work is) and richly merits reading.

Blogger Jordan179 August 26, 2016 9:32 AM  

After the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE, not a single modern day "Jew" can prove that they were descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. All of those records were lost.

Mostly true -- but it's exceedingly improbable that today's Jews aren't descended from (among other people) the Jews of the 1st century AD. Among other things, there were already large Jewish populations outside Judea, so even if the Romans had attempted to systematically destroy the Judeans (they didn't), many lineages would have survived.

Even if we assume the Khazar theory for the Ashkenazim descent, the modern Ashkenazim would still be descended from the ancient Jews, because there has been plenty of intermarriage between Ashkenazim and Sephardim.

Blogger Matthew August 26, 2016 9:58 AM  

What was Herod's father's nationality?

Anonymous Joe Blowe August 26, 2016 10:32 AM  

Jesus was not a Jew. He was a Hebrew that followed the Old Testament. Also, VD is correct, Jesus was a Galilean. It is a very important distinction and this is why. Around 135 BC the Gentiles of Galilee were forcibly converted to Herbraism by the the Hasmonean dynasty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_conversion#Judaism

When Christ was growing up the Galileans, made up of forced converts and Judean transplants, were not "good Jews" and eschewed the Babaloyian Talmudism of their Pharisee cousins in Jerusalem.

http://www.travelujah.com/articles/entry/Who-were-the-Galileans-in-the-Days-of-Jesus-

https://blogs.thegospelcoalition.org/justintaylor/2011/08/17/7-differences-between-galilee-and-judea-in-the-time-of-jesus/

Jesus was a man of his time and a man of his people.

Anonymous fop August 26, 2016 10:45 AM  

Jesus was not a Jew.

So "Lion of the Tribe of Judah" refers to Haile Selassie after all! I knew it!

Anonymous Dean August 26, 2016 10:47 AM  

To know who is referenced in Rev. 3:9, Romans 2:29 must be understood.

Blogger Demonic Professor El August 26, 2016 11:27 AM  

"Creator of heaven and earth was a Jew" -

Sounds like the beginning of a Mel Brooks style comedic episode?

Anonymous Ready Watchman August 26, 2016 11:33 AM  

Amazing that this *still* confounds people. The short answer: read Hebrews! It explains everything esp. the unveiling of the New Covenant replacing the Old (e.g. the Law of Moses).

Physical Israel gave way to Spiritual Israel (e.g. the church). This new body was opened first to the Jews (Acts 2) and then later also to the Gentiles (Acts 10, 11). It was *always* God's plan to have this universal body open to all peoples but to bring it about; He used Israel to get things there. When Jesus came at the proper time, born of woman and born "under the Law" (e.g. a Jew) (Gal. 4) He fulfilled everything.

Perhaps the *better* question is why Jesus was a Jew. The answer is simple but not what modern rejectors want to hear: to be the perfect sin sacrifice He had to live under that Law so as to establish that He was "tempted in all things".

As far as "synagogue of Satan" etc.: hostile Jews in a literal city in Asia Minor who rejected the New Covenant and vis a vis rejected God. They continue to do the same today...

Blogger The Hammer August 26, 2016 1:05 PM  

Ready Watchmen (@126) provides a good overview of the opposite view to mine in @87. His view requires that the Father and the Son no longer see Jews as Jews in Revelation 3:9 plus the church replaces Israel anyway.

My view is that is he giving them a strong rebuke for following Satan's example of accusing, yet non-Messianic Jews are still considered Israel as Paul explains in Romans 9-11.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 26, 2016 1:41 PM  

yoghi.llama wrote:Snidely you have not a shred of evidence that your Cosmic Jewish Zombie Magician ever existed, just like the Taiyaye have none that their al-Insān al-Kamil was flesh and blood.

Define evidence.

Blogger Joe Keenan August 26, 2016 4:59 PM  

126 is the correct.

Anonymous Dean August 26, 2016 5:01 PM  

The ancient Israelites were a physical foreshadow of the bride, and the written law a foreshadow of the Holy Spirit. The true Jew has nothing to do with bloodline or geography, but with a circumcised heart (a heart indwelt by the Holy Spirit). The fake Jews in Rev. 3:9 are those who say they have the Spirit of Yah, but do not. Most churchians fall into this category.

OpenID frankluke August 26, 2016 5:41 PM  

and eschewed the Babaloyian Talmudism of their Pharisee cousins in Jerusalem.

Easy to eschew what isn't there. The Babylonian Talmud was not compiled until around AD 500. It's predecessor, the Mishnah, was compiled from oral traditions beginning in AD 200 under the direction of Rabbi Judah HaNasi. The Talmuds (Babylonian and Jerusalem) contain the same Mishnah portion (for the most part. Mishnah Avot is only found in BT) but differ in their gemerahs (commentaries on the mishnah).

Prior to that, in the time of Jesus, the oral law was just that: oral. This was the time of the Repeaters, those who were blessed with a memory like a glazed cistern that never leaked a drop, and the Pairs, as each generation had two Pharisees that led the party.

Blogger guest August 26, 2016 6:39 PM  

Jordan179 wrote:

"Mostly true -- but it's exceedingly improbable that today's Jews aren't descended from (among other people) the Jews of the 1st century AD. Among other things, there were already large Jewish populations outside Judea, so even if the Romans had attempted to systematically destroy the Judeans (they didn't), many lineages would have survived"

That isn't the problem. The problem is that the records were lost.

Blogger guest August 26, 2016 6:41 PM  

Jordan179 wrote:

"Mostly true -- but it's exceedingly improbable that today's Jews aren't descended from (among other people) the Jews of the 1st century AD. Among other things, there were already large Jewish populations outside Judea, so even if the Romans had attempted to systematically destroy the Judeans (they didn't), many lineages would have survived"

That isn't the problem. The problem is that the records were lost.

Anonymous Avatar Within August 26, 2016 7:13 PM  

You ought to watch Kenneth Harls lecture series "Fall of the Pagans and the Origins of Medieval Christianity" according to which the early Christians were 99.9% jews who were looking to break free from the Roman empire and resurrect the house of David. Moreover, Christianity was pretty much irrelevant, other than as brief entertainment in the arena, in Europe before the Roman emperor Constantine adopted it. Furthermore, medieval Christianity and the Catholic Church were heavily influenced by the germanic tribes that adopted at the onset of the medieval period such as the Goths and the Franks. Christianity started out as a jewish cult within the Roman empire but changed into something else as it diffused across Europe.

Blogger JCclimber August 26, 2016 7:37 PM  

I cannot believe how many of you are falling for the whole reframing act of this cuck.

So much brain power and time spent debating whether Jesus was a Jew, which is irrelevant. He was, his 12 disciples were, the first 3,000 plus Christians were all Jews, and most of those added in the next 3.5 years before Stephan was stoned were Jews.

And we can still deride the (((tribe))) members who claim the jewish label because they are so obviously of the Synagogue of Satan jews.

The best response to cucks like this is "and your point is?"

Blogger JCclimber August 26, 2016 7:41 PM  

guest wrote:Jordan179 wrote:

"Mostly true -- but it's exceedingly improbable that today's Jews aren't descended from (among other people) the Jews of the 1st century AD. Among other things, there were already large Jewish populations outside Judea, so even if the Romans had attempted to systematically destroy the Judeans (they didn't), many lineages would have survived"

That isn't the problem. The problem is that the records were lost.


most people of that time were able to memorize their lineages. They were more intelligent than us, without the brain rot of our modern laziness caused by TV, sleep deprivation, drugs, and being 2,000 more years of devolving from Adam.

Think of how many of them back then had most of the Old Testament (obviously not called that back then) memorized. A list of 40 or so ancestors would be a piece of cake in comparison.

Blogger Elder Son August 27, 2016 1:54 AM  

Look up the root word for JEW.

The Greek root of the word Jew is Ioudaios, from Aramic and Hebrew. The Hebrew word for Jew, y'hudi, comes from the name Y'hudah, or Judah.

And AGAIN: The first time Jew is mentioned in the bible is 2 Kings 16:6. There are now two kingdoms. Israel and Judah. Judah reigned in Jerusalem. Then Rezin king of Syria and Pekah son of Remaliah king of Israel came up to Jerusalem to war: and they besieged Ahaz, but could not overcome him. At that time Rezin king of Syria recovered Elath to Syria, and drave the Jews from Elath: and the Syrians came to Elath, and dwelt there unto this day. Jew = Judah.

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