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Tuesday, August 02, 2016

Now he's just trolling Catholics

The current pope has gone from reprehensible to ridiculous:
Pope Francis on Tuesday appointed a special commission to examine the role of female deacons in the Church, in a potentially historic opening on the possibility of women joining the clergy.

The 13-member commission, made up of seven men and six women, will study the question of female deacons with a particular focus on the history of women having played this role in the early years of the Church, the Vatican said in a statement.

The move follows a pledge made by Francis in May during a question-and-answer session with members of female religious orders.

Advocates of women serving as deacons have long argued that they are pitifully under-represented in the Church's hierarchy and decision-making processes.

Allowing women to enter the clergy at a rank just below a priest would represent a first step towards correcting this imbalance, they argue.

They also insist there is no theological obstacle to the move because of the precedent established by women performing the role in the early centuries of Christianity.
At this point, given what we know about the deleterious effects of female ordination on every single Christian denomination, this has to be considered an intentionally destructive act.

At this rate, he is going to change his name to Francine, declare himself a trans-woman, approve married clergy, and announce his marriage to an imam before Christmas.

Labels: ,

146 Comments:

Blogger J Van Stry August 02, 2016 11:33 AM  

This is what happens when you put an avowed communist in charge of things.
HE really is trying to destroy the church, it's damn obvious that he was just hiding out, like a good little SJW until he got to the point where he could do the most damage.

Anonymous Enjoy The Decline August 02, 2016 11:34 AM  

Hey, it's worked so well for the American Episcopalians, the American Methodists, the American Presbyterians, what's not to like!

Anonymous Enjoy The Decline August 02, 2016 11:35 AM  

At this rate, he is going to change his name to Francine, declare himself a trans-woman, approve married clergy, and announce his marriage to an imam before Christmas.

Wedding directory will include Target, of course.

Blogger Jim Carroll August 02, 2016 11:35 AM  

Not that I see any redeeming qualities in the current pope, but "deacons," as originally envisioned in the New Testament were occasionally women.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch August 02, 2016 11:37 AM  

this has to be considered an intentionally destructive act.

Precisely.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 02, 2016 11:39 AM  

He can be trolled right back. Take that mural in Aussie the left wing twits had a fit that Hillary was being mocked, do did the artist accept at face value the authority of the SJW star chamber, hell no. Hillary got a burka so maybe the Pope the trans-catholic-human-male something or another should be drawn with a burka.

Hell they should all be drawn with a burka, make the Left/Islam great.

Blogger Jakob Niedzwiecki August 02, 2016 11:40 AM  

Fr. John Zuhlsdorf (a sensible fellow) predicts this is merely a formality that will settle the issue once and for all against "deaconesses." I pray he is right.

Anonymous Susan August 02, 2016 11:41 AM  

Letting retired and still married men of a certain age become priests has long been put forward as a solution to not only the shortage of priests, but to the problem of pedo priests as well. I first started seeing this suggestion put forward back in the late 80's early 90's.

There are many Catholics of the retired generation who would love to become priests. Historically, priests used to be able to be married, from the Pope on down.

Anonymous Jack Amok August 02, 2016 11:42 AM  

If it wasn't clear before, it should be by now. Leaders need to be disposable, because they don't always work out. #IAmTheLeaderOfGamerGate

Anonymous Broken Arrow August 02, 2016 11:44 AM  

Francis is allowing Hans Kung back into the theological discussion. This should tell you everything you need to know. If you haven't read any Kung then the short version is that he's a child of V2 with the expressed goal of turning the RCC into a liberal Protestant denomination.

Blogger VD August 02, 2016 11:45 AM  

Leaders need to be disposable, because they don't always work out.

Exactly. Please to consider yourself disposed.
#IAmTheOneTrueLeaderofGamerGate

Anonymous Enjoy The Decline August 02, 2016 11:45 AM  

@4. Jim Carroll
Not that I see any redeeming qualities in the current pope, but "deacons," as originally envisioned in the New Testament were occasionally women.



Maybe. It's debatable. The effects are not. What's your point?

Anonymous Crude August 02, 2016 11:47 AM  

approve married clergy

Byzantine rite can by and large be married, though it's dependent on particulars. And there's an Anglican rite now. The Orthodox can be married and they're in decent shape. That said, the modern pressure for change on that is for all the wrong reasons.

That said, as much as I distrust this pope, the issue of female clergy is closed. Granted, feminists don't accept that (they don't accept having a vagina makes one a woman either), but that's not changing. Which, I think, is why this commission is worded more as a historical study than anything else.

Of course, maybe this or some future Pope has something else in mind, but if they decide 'Women can be priests after all!' they'd be going against so much teaching, so much past study, so much tradition, and so many past papal statements that it would be easy to say 'Alright, so now we really do have a heretic here.'

Blogger haus frau August 02, 2016 11:47 AM  

Not totally off topic considering the universal rot within mainline churches......but I found myself accidentally sitting in on a Mennonite church service last Sunday. The grange whose commercial kitchen I rent had opened their hall to a local Mennonite congregation because their church was too small to accommodate all of them on this particular occasion. I don't understand the main differences between them and other Christian sects. I think they simply interpret certain passages very strictly, like veiling for women (the little cloth or net on their bunned hair). Certain peculiarities I noticed; men usher the families into their places silently at the opening of church and it is clearly a male led church service, the congregation is very disciplined including the abundant children, the choir is the best church choir I've ever heard (no screechy little church ladies), they are very social with strangers like me but remain very insular. It's pretty obvious they don't believe in either birth control or public schools. They are immensely charitable but join nothing. Unfortunately there are no Mennonites entryists to watch out for. Why can't we be invaded by Mennonites? I There is so much about their quiet little communities that put other modern churches to shame.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr August 02, 2016 11:48 AM  

@8 Susan:

Excellent point. IIRC, the whole business of priests being unmarried was hotly debated for nearly a thousand years before being formalized at the Council of Trent in 1069. And it was an administrative issue, not Scriptural. A matter of keeping priests from allocating Church property (notably land) to their sons.

Anonymous Enjoy The Decline August 02, 2016 11:48 AM  

Fr. John Zuhlsdorf (a sensible fellow) predicts this is merely a formality that will settle the issue once and for all against "deaconesses."

The prediction proves he's not sensible. This issue will never be settled as long as tabula rasa is revealed truth in the secular world.

Blogger Joe Doakes August 02, 2016 11:49 AM  

In the days of Pope Gregory, being a priest was a good job. If clergy could get their sons a parish the way lords gave their sons land, you'd have a clerical dynasty to rival the aristocracy. Banning married priests made spiritual and political sense at the time, but not in America or Europe today. Francis would do better to focus on Africa and South America where the faith is strong.

Anonymous Enjoy The Decline August 02, 2016 11:49 AM  

Of course, maybe this or some future Pope has something else in mind, but if they decide 'Women can be priests after all!' they'd be going against so much teaching, so much past study, so much tradition, and so many past papal statements that it would be easy to say 'Alright, so now we really do have a heretic here.'

Then what?

Blogger Anchorman August 02, 2016 11:54 AM  

Entryism.

Once approved, they'll start nudging for priestess status.

What difference would it make, they'll say?

And the men will nod along.

I wonder how the African and South American parishes and dioceses will react. They're not nearly as "progressive" as the European and American Catholic church.

Anonymous Roundtine August 02, 2016 11:55 AM  

The Pope has lost the Mandate of Heaven.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother August 02, 2016 11:55 AM  

Mennonite ladies can also cook like nobody's business.

Anonymous Roundtine August 02, 2016 11:56 AM  

Then what?

There is another Pope.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 02, 2016 11:57 AM  

but "deacons," as originally envisioned in the New Testament were occasionally women.

Perhaps, but that's not what this is about. A "deacon" today is a priest in training. They've also come up with something called a "permanent deacon" who never becomes a priest, who may be a married man, and who is more like the deacons of the early Church.

That gives them cover for this push, but that's not what it's about. It's about women priests, which the more outspoken liberals in the Church have been openly agitating for since the 1960s at least. When they get a "permanent deaconess," then they'll move on to "women deacons" of the other sort, and then priestesses. That's the goal, and they're not shy about it.

Like everything else about the Church that the world dislikes, the male priesthood has to go so the Church can fit in.

Anonymous Steve August 02, 2016 11:58 AM  

@14 haus frau

What you experienced sounds like one of several smallish sects of conservative Mennonites. Take a look at Mennonite Church USA and you'll see a whole different ball of wax.

Anonymous Crude August 02, 2016 12:00 PM  

Then what?

We dust off one of the Vatican prisons. Not a nice, fancy one. The old kind with iron bars and small doors that you have to bow to get through in order to teach you reverence.

Or they're deposed and sent on a mission of penance. Say converting the muslims to Christianity.

Blogger Jim Carroll August 02, 2016 12:02 PM  

Enjoy The Decline wrote:@4.
Maybe. It's debatable. The effects are not. What's your point?


Meaning, this particular uncontroversial point (that the pope is investigating women deacons) isn't a great hill to die on, and given there's so many better hills with respect to the current pope pointing this out seem like nit-picking. "deacons" as originally envisioned where not "clergy" nor ruling or teaching positions.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 02, 2016 12:02 PM  

Re Mennonites, I wonder how they will fare as chaos marches. If they're far enough off the beaten path, maybe okay. Then again, in Argentina being on an isolated farm was a very bad thing when the S hit the F.

Anonymous Enjoy The Decline August 02, 2016 12:02 PM  

Then what?

There is another Pope.


Says who?

Blogger VD August 02, 2016 12:02 PM  

Leaders need to be disposable, because they don't always work out.

Exactly. Please to consider yourself disposed.
#IAmTheOneTrueLeaderofGamerGate

OpenID basementhomebrewer August 02, 2016 12:04 PM  

Crude wrote:Then what?

We dust off one of the Vatican prisons. Not a nice, fancy one. The old kind with iron bars and small doors that you have to bow to get through in order to teach you reverence.

Or they're deposed and sent on a mission of penance. Say converting the muslims to Christianity.


He may enjoy that assignment. Of course, his way of converting them to Christianity will be declaring all religions essentially the same and converting himself to Islam.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 02, 2016 12:04 PM  

Women are lovely only as long as the aren't running anything larger than a bridge club (and even then, all it takes is one pushy, self-absorbed bitch to ruin everything.)

Anonymous Broken Arrow August 02, 2016 12:04 PM  

@23 Yep, they don't have to change a single rule, they could just create a new office for women which are the equivalent of Deacons, give them considerable power, and over time the practice will shape tradition. This has been the operation in liberal Protestant churches for over a century, don't change the rules, just the practice, don't enforce the rules, until the members accept the practice as normal and demand a rule change.

In the RCC it's even simpler in a way since the Church Militant can always "reinterpret" the old traditions without scratching anything out. Everything can be technically non-binding but the practice is completely opposite of what is done in the past.

Anonymous Enjoy The Decline August 02, 2016 12:04 PM  

We dust off one of the Vatican prisons. Not a nice, fancy one. The old kind with iron bars and small doors that you have to bow to get through in order to teach you reverence.


Who's "we"?

Blogger VFM #7634 August 02, 2016 12:06 PM  

Francis would do better to focus on Africa and South America where the faith is strong.

I wonder how the African and South American parishes and dioceses will react. They're not nearly as "progressive" as the European and American Catholic church.

You two might want to cross off South America, the land of Liberation Theology and millions of converts to Protestantism, as being a place where the Faith is "strong".

Blogger Cail Corishev August 02, 2016 12:07 PM  

The backdrop to this is that some of the conservatives within the Vatican II structure have started to rebel against how fast and far he's going -- in the mildest possible way, with petitions asking him to reconsider some things. Problem is, the Church is a monarchy. You can't vote to override a monarch, or change his mind or get rid of him with petitions, unless he has a sense of shame, which isn't the case here.

There are really only two ways to get rid of a monarch: throw him off the throne, or get everyone to agree that he's not the monarch and swear fealty to someone else. They're a LONG way from doing anything like that, and Francis knows it. But they're being uppity by objecting to his innovations at all, and moves like this are a way to rub it in their faces.

Anonymous Enjoy The Decline August 02, 2016 12:07 PM  

Meaning, this particular uncontroversial point (that the pope is investigating women deacons) isn't a great hill to die on, and given there's so many better hills with respect to the current pope pointing this out seem like nit-picking. "deacons" as originally envisioned where not "clergy" nor ruling or teaching positions.



Nobody is dying on any hill. You don't have a problem with women as deacons? Then you want priestesses. It's that simple.

Do you want priestesses?

Anonymous GregMan August 02, 2016 12:08 PM  

Man do I miss Benedict.

Anonymous Credo in Unum Deum August 02, 2016 12:10 PM  

I want this Pope to quietly retire, endorse either Cardinal Sarah or Burke for his successor, take a vow of silence, and then spend the rest of his days in a monastery deep in a mountain range in contemplative prayer.

Blogger VFM #7634 August 02, 2016 12:10 PM  

Here's some commentary on more of Francis' remarks:

Francis to Youth: “You Believe in a New Humanity”!

Can anyone point to anything that this fellow says that is actually Catholic?

Anonymous Enjoy The Decline August 02, 2016 12:11 PM  

Francis would do better to focus on Africa and South America where the faith is strong.

If only the College of Cardinals had elected a Pope from South America, where the faith is strong.

Blogger Lazarus August 02, 2016 12:12 PM  

A worldly Church is a bride gone bad. Down on the corner, looking for action, painted up like Jezebel.

I think there are some bible references about that, somewhere.

Blogger Rabbi B August 02, 2016 12:17 PM  

. . . they are pitifully under-represented . . .

Under-representation. The eighth deadly sin?

Blogger Jim Carroll August 02, 2016 12:20 PM  

Enjoy The Decline wrote:
Do you want priestesses?


No. Though I'm not Catholic and in this instance, don't personally care. However, it's clear to me that New Testament teaching indicates woman are not to hold teaching or ruling positions (a priest would be considered both), deacons (again, as originally constituted) are neither.

OpenID peppermintfrosted August 02, 2016 12:22 PM  

He is trolling Catholics, this is another haha not heretical statement.

This is debated all the time on Catholic forums. There is no scriptural justification for not having women as priests, though if women should have been priests surely Jesus would have ordained one of his female followers, however, the example of tradition suggests that such measures should be taken carefully.

Anyway, all animals can either create value for each other in mutually beneficial exchanges or kill and eat each other. To live is to work and fight, and Christcucks say that if you're good after you die you no longer need to live, and their lolbertatian children say that you just need to work but fighting isn't needed, and the commies say that robots are going to make it so no one has to work or fight anymore.

Nazis recognize the natural law that those who would not work or fight are cucks or cucking someone else.

Blogger August August 02, 2016 12:27 PM  

I think this has been tried among the Eastern Orthodox too. If I understand correctly, a 'deaconess' was never considered clergy and would teach women, and perhaps baptize them.
But we already have trouble with women in certain positions- readers, Eucharistic ministers, and altar girls. Alter servers & readers should be male. There simply should not be Eucharistic ministers. It doesn't actually save any time, and it is a circus.

BTW, a deacon once told me it is actually harder to go from being a deacon in the community to becoming a priest, versus going to be a priest directly via going to seminary. This points to a key problem- men should be able to be trained and ordained in the local church. This is one of the reasons bishops always should be able to ordain married men.

Anonymous Redbane August 02, 2016 12:29 PM  

Guys, as a good Irish Catholic, we in the pews are horrified by this open globalist and proponent of the New World Order.This has been a work of many decades since the post Vatican 2 take-over over of the 1960s, but progressive forces have been active for decades before the disaster of Vat 2. In 1917, a locution was given to 3 peasant children in Fatima, Portugal. This event was underscored with a public miracle, witnessed by 70,00 people in the immediate vicinity, and reported on as far afield as the New York times. These locutions predicted current events and they are going to culminate in a predicted 3rd world war. We are literally witnessing a battle of Principalities and Powers for the souls of men.Next year will be very significant I fear, in terms of world historical events.

Blogger Crude August 02, 2016 12:30 PM  

Do the Socratic-wank routine with someone else.

Blogger CarpeOro August 02, 2016 12:33 PM  

@44 "There is no scriptural justification for not having women as priests, though if women should have been priests surely Jesus would have ordained one of his female followers, however, the example of tradition suggests that such measures should be taken carefully."

No, there are scriptural justifications not to - as in where it specifically states that women can hold no position above deaconess. The example of the last century shows how horribly wrong it is with no doubt whatsoever. There isn't a single denomination to my knowledge where it hasn't become a cancer.

Blogger Jakob Niedzwiecki August 02, 2016 12:35 PM  

People said the same thing about the Church and contraception before Humanae Vitae, Enjoy the Decline. The Lord moves in mysterious ways.

Blogger Chris Mallory August 02, 2016 12:35 PM  

1 Timothy 3 gives the qualifications for being a Deacon.

"12 A deacon must be faithful to his wife and must manage his children and his household well. 13 Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus."

Anonymous Frank Brady August 02, 2016 12:38 PM  

The feminization of American popular "culture" is primary impetus behind the country's accelerating decline. Europe is about a decade ahead and is now circling the drain.

Anonymous IoshkaFutz August 02, 2016 12:39 PM  

There I was in Alba, Piemonte, visiting my mother, who lives across the street from a big ugly church, when, out of the blue the deeply disturbing moans of a chanting Imam rang out. Padre Minchione had lent the parish basement to the head choppers.
That awful plaintive moan... in the wine capital of Italy! Sponsorizzato by matchsticks in the eyes priest. And this Pope... this peronista! We've been whammied

Anonymous Redbane August 02, 2016 12:40 PM  

@44 @48. The late Great Father Fulton Sheen had a a story related to his days as a military chaplain. Protestant soldiers would come to him for spiritual direction, because they didn't trust their own Protestant pastor due to him being married, and possible telling his wife all the gory details of their struggles.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 02, 2016 12:42 PM  

Fr. John Zuhlsdorf (a sensible fellow)

The last time I commented at Fr. Z's site, I suggested that Francis would be much happier as an Anglican, so we should trade him to them for a nice set of brass candlesticks and a third-year seminarian to be named later. He deleted it without comment. I thought it was funny.

He's a typical trad who will keep moving the out-of-bounds line for Francis and finding ways to excuse him, as long as Francis doesn't take away the Latin Mass again.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch August 02, 2016 12:44 PM  

These locutions predicted current events and they are going to culminate in a predicted 3rd world war. We are literally witnessing a battle of Principalities and Powers for the souls of men.Next year will be very significant I fear, in terms of world historical events.


I agree with Redbane.

Blogger tz August 02, 2016 12:45 PM  

The Deaconate is the first level of the sacrament of Holy Orders - That sacrament is male only. There can't be ordained deaconesses, but they can keep the church clean, the vestments maintained, and take out the trash.
The point of being a Permanent Deacon is to image Christ THE SERVANT. Not the leader. Assistants. They can help do the boring and unglamorous things.
Women can already be servants as lay ministers. They can be submissive servants any time.
Also note that Deacons can read the Gospel, preach a Homily, and handle the Eucharist - and Women cannot be allowed to any of that.

Blogger The Kurgan August 02, 2016 12:50 PM  

As I said before: This son-of-a-bitch needs smothering with a pillow, so that he may go quietly into the night.

Blogger GK Chesterton August 02, 2016 12:51 PM  

Before we go nuts here:

We do have good historical evidence that there was a female order of deacons...but...

They weren't ordained in the common sense. They helped in female baptism (as it was generally done nekkid') and in taking the Host to women at home (which would be unseemly for a man to do).

Notice something there? They existed _for and because_ of sex divisions that the progressives have destroyed. So they aren't strictly needed anymore....unless...

You count a group that still does this task. That group is generally titled "abbess".

Blogger Positive Dennis August 02, 2016 12:54 PM  

there were female deacons, this is not in dispute.

Blogger Jim Carroll August 02, 2016 12:58 PM  

Chris Mallory wrote:1 Timothy 3 gives the qualifications for being a Deacon.

"12 A deacon must be faithful to his wife and must manage his children and his household well. 13 Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus."



Preceded by 3:8-11 "In the same way, deacons are to be worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons. In the same way, the women are to be worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything...."

And there's specific reference to Phoebe in Rom 16.

I believe there are also examples in the early church but it's been a while since I read the early fathers and I could be wrong.

Blogger Sillon Bono August 02, 2016 12:59 PM  

I think this is just the Pope playing the leftist tradition of making a smokescreen so people move their attention from the fact that the pope is recommending to Christianity that they commit suicide by Muslim immigration, while they keep quiet and nice about it.

Blogger Sillon Bono August 02, 2016 1:00 PM  

And I would say the technique works.

Anonymous GreyS August 02, 2016 1:01 PM  

No reason for panic, let alone panic from anti-Catholics. In the spring he was speaking to a thousand women religious superiors and was asked to form a commission to study the issue. He said “I accept. It would be useful for the Church to clarify this question.”

He's slyly done similar things when he sees it necessary to open up simmering topics for discussion while not having intention to change Church teaching.

Blogger Nick S August 02, 2016 1:01 PM  

Redbane wrote:We are literally witnessing a battle of Principalities and Powers for the souls of men.Next year will be very significant I fear, in terms of world historical events.

It certainly looks like the Euphrates river war of Revelation 9:13-21 is getting primed and ready to go, but these things sometimes unfold in long and unexpected ways that are only clear in hindsight. It could take years or decades to kick off in earnest...I hope.

Blogger clk August 02, 2016 1:02 PM  

"Not that I see any redeeming qualities in the current pope, but "deacons," as originally envisioned in the New Testament were occasionally women."

Yes Phoebe ---

The fact or the matter is there is no heresy here at all ... remember what was once allowed is always allowed ... its really just like married priest --- for the first 800-1000 years the RCC allowed married priests and bishops.. then the dark ages came..

In a church that venerates Mary, and where there was clearly a larger role for Jesus followers who were women... I see no problem with female deacons -- we already have female extraordinary ministers of communion.

Blogger Mountain Man August 02, 2016 1:06 PM  

"Re Mennonites, I wonder how they will fare as chaos marches. If they're far enough off the beaten path, maybe okay. Then again, in Argentina being on an isolated farm was a very bad thing when the S hit the F."

Living right outside an area like Hartford,CT or Springfield,MA... probably not too good. You move inland to areas like northern NH or NorthWestern ,Maine ( where there is a lot of them along with Amish) - pretty good.
Sadly, it will be the people of color (dindus, spics & sand niggers) that will suffer the most when the SHTF. They all congregate near cities. When the food is not forthcoming they will attempt to move inland. As the do they will find that the further North they go the more impenetrable the wall of metal will be.
The best place one can be is in a rural, heterogenous community far from an Interstate exit.

Anonymous Incurvatus August 02, 2016 1:07 PM  

There's no shortage of priests among the Papists.
There's a shortage of Christ.

Blogger LurkingPuppy August 02, 2016 1:12 PM  

GreyS wrote:He's slyly done similar things when he sees it necessary to open up simmering topics for discussion while not having intention to change Church teaching.
And it's okay for the Pope to be sly?

Blogger Jeffrey Quick August 02, 2016 1:14 PM  

@35. The Church is a CONSTITUTIONAL monarchy, the constitution being Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. If a Pope were to abrogate either one, he'd self-excommunicate.

Anonymous Roundtine August 02, 2016 1:14 PM  

Then what?

There is another Pope.

Says who?


You should direct your questions to Google, they are quite easily answered.

Anonymous Enjoy The Decline August 02, 2016 1:19 PM  

Then what?

There is another Pope.

Says who?


You should direct your questions to Google, they are quite easily answered.

Sergei Brin and Larry Page get to pick the next Pope?

Anonymous FP August 02, 2016 1:21 PM  

"At this rate, he is going to change his name to Francine, declare himself a trans-woman, approve married clergy, and announce his marriage to an imam before Christmas.

Wedding directory will include Target, of course."

I'd bake that wedding cake. The top would be the pontiff in a wedding dress, standing on a toilet looking into the next stall with a cell phone camera.

Anonymous patrick kelly August 02, 2016 1:22 PM  

"Orthodox can be married .."

FYI FWIW:

Orthodox Priests are to stay in whatever state they are in when ordained. If married, stay married, if un-married then single and celibate. Divorced may not serve as priests.

Married priests are very rarely made Bishops, and when they are they are expected to live celibate lives separated from their wives. Usually they are chosen from monastics so this is very rare.

Anonymous Hezekiah Garrett August 02, 2016 1:25 PM  

@68 '...Wise as serpents...'

Are we sure it's the mackerel snappers who don't read Scripture?

Anonymous BGKB August 02, 2016 1:36 PM  

Do they really want to risk putting a dyke in charge of money for "Widows & Orphans"

Sadly, it will be the people of color (dindus, spics & sand niggers) that will suffer the most when the SHTF.

Do you really want them to survive when the nation gets rebuilt? Lots of whites will die, no point in saving die verse city over them. Latrina will think her 21 crackbabies are entitled to every thing you have saved up.

Blogger John Wright August 02, 2016 1:39 PM  

What the Pope actually said was: 'It would be useful for the Church to clarify this question.'

In the Church there is a distinction between deaconesses (not ordained, allowed) and female deacons (ordained, forbidden)

http://www.catholic.com/blog/jimmy-akin/pope-francis’s-commission-on-women-deacons-12-things-to-know-and-share

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/pope-to-set-up-commission-to-study-possibility-of-women-deacons/

Anonymous M.W. Peak August 02, 2016 1:41 PM  

Hey, it's worked so well for the American Episcopalians, the American Methodists, the American Presbyterians, what's not to like!

Perhaps it would be more accurate to replace the word "American" with "Feminist," "Marxist," "Progressive," etc. Then it can be seen that success is not really the goal, but the opposite of the goal.

Anonymous Euryale August 02, 2016 1:49 PM  

Notice how #PasMonPape originated from France... It's causing a lot of defensiveness over there. Predictable. Wrong approach to uncuck the catholics. They will just close ranks and commune in the feeling of persecution. "Nobody understands us, can understand us!"

Something else is needed. TBC will do its part!

Anonymous Sam the Man August 02, 2016 1:56 PM  

My kids go to a Catholic church (wife is a papist). I notice women get up and do readings and also are involved in giving out the bread/body, also they dominate the choir singing. The also occasionally collect money, which seem to be new. They even have younger girls being alter persons.

For all the defects of the Catholics (not one myself) I will say they do not seem to be all that fag friendly, so they are doing something right. Also the catholic schools seem to be pretty good at keeping out a lot of the current perversions, anti no "Heather has Two Mommies " crap. The main stream Protestants and reform Temples seem to be quite on board with the gay agenda, sad to say.

Mennonites are kind of interesting folks. Here in PA there are a lot of them, and they are sharp but honest business men. I take their insularity to be more about being Palatinate German/Swiss than a strictly religious thing. They are pacifists toward their fellow man, and I do not think they will do that well in a world gone bad, sad to say.

Anonymous Enjoy The Decline August 02, 2016 2:00 PM  


In the Church there is a distinction between deaconesses (not ordained, allowed) and female deacons (ordained, forbidden)


Why, then, the issue is settled, or should be settled.
Except it isn't. Why? Because Tabula Rasa and muh Phoebe.

Inch. Mile. Slope. Enjoy.

Blogger LurkingPuppy August 02, 2016 2:32 PM  

Hezekiah Garrett wrote:@68 '...Wise as serpents...'

Are we sure it's the mackerel snappers who don't read Scripture?

“be … wise as serpents and harmless as doves” doesn't look like a command to act or speak like serpents. And later on, he tells them “It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord.”.

Was Jesus really ever ‘sly’? That seems unlikely to me.

Anonymous Antipas August 02, 2016 2:39 PM  

Married clergy wouldn't be such a bad thing for the Latins...

Blogger Cail Corishev August 02, 2016 2:39 PM  

Also note that Deacons can read the Gospel, preach a Homily, and handle the Eucharist - and Women cannot be allowed to any of that.

And right there is the entry point. They already have women (mis)handling the Eucharist as EMHCs. They already invite women, especially nuns and missionaries, to come up and speak during homily time, which often crosses the line into preaching. I don't think I've personally seen a woman read the gospel, but I know it happens, and most Catholics wouldn't bat an eye at it.

So those lines are already blurred, and as soon as there's a deaconness, they'll be erased. It'll be impossible to explain why a Permanent Deaconness can't do things Deacons can do, when she was already doing some of them anyway.

Altar girls play into all this too, because they've been setting girls up to be resentful by encouraging them to take over the job that was always a starting point for boys getting interested in the priesthood as a vocation.

Blogger Lovekraft August 02, 2016 2:45 PM  

Vox is right again:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/08/01/amnesty-jeb-adviser-sally-bradshaw-quits-gop-plans-vote-hillary-clinton-donald-trump/

Jeb!'s campaign manager quits because of "Mysoginistic" Trump and declares her intent to vote Hillary.

Jeb always struck me as a doofus, a pushover. But his family were around some serious stuff in the 60s and 70s (Cold War). How fast they've fallen if one of their own fails to root out a traitor so close to them.

Blogger CM August 02, 2016 2:46 PM  

they dominate the choir singing

I have done high church choral singing and low brow praise band. Do you know how freaking hard it is to convince men to join a choir??? I have heard amazing baritones and bass in congregations, but its like pulling teeth to convince them the choir is worthwhile or that they are capable of doing it.

Anonymous NZT August 02, 2016 2:48 PM  

The whole thing about Phoebe & female deacons in the NT is a red herring anyway. IIRC the NT concept of deacon (essentially meaning "servant") was a member of a Christian gathering who would perform menial tasks like waiting tables and tidying up to free up the elders and other members to do their teaching, praying, singing, etc. It was honorable service but it was not a position of authority, and therefore it was acceptable to have it filled by women.

Obviously the modern concept of a deacon as a priest-in-training or priest's right-hand man is far away from the Biblical role, and the feminists are using this equivocation to try to pry open roles of teaching and authority to women, in open rebellion against clear Biblical command.

Blogger clk August 02, 2016 2:53 PM  

You have to understand what a deacon is and is not --- he is a minister but with very very limited powers -- of the 7 sacraments a deacon can only baptize and marry -- both are powers that pretty exist to the laity already (anyone can baptize in an emergency, and a marriage is really a vow between the two participants and God -- a deacon can run the ceremony with the permission of the priest). They can also read the word and give the sermon...

The the shortage of priests .. this might not be a bad idea to get more people involved..

Its really no that big of a deal unless your concerns are that its a stepping stone to the priesthood .. which will not happen...

Anonymous Hezekiah Garrett August 02, 2016 2:54 PM  

@81. Sly obviously connotes devious for you, but it also denotes surreptitious.

Jesus was surreptitious in places, He didn't need to lay all his cards at once.

When you're trying to avoid schism AND heresy, you have to be pastoral. These women and men pushing WO can be satisfied for now that the Pope tkes their confused concerns serious enough to organize a commission. No harm, no foul.

Now, if the commission sets aside reality, and reports back Deaconesses are a great idea, still no harm, no foul, because alone they are a bunch of well fed navelgazers.

Until the Pope endorses Deaconesses this all so much Sturm und drag.

But this exchange is a good argument for the horrible limitations of English as a theological language. Everything is too vague.

Blogger CM August 02, 2016 2:57 PM  

The whole thing about Phoebe & female deacons in the NT is a red herring anyway. IIRC the NT concept of deacon (essentially meaning "servant") was a member of a Christian gathering who would perform menial tasks like waiting tables and tidying up to free up the elders and other members to do their teaching, praying, singing, etc.

OR

They weren't ordained in the common sense. They helped in female baptism (as it was generally done nekkid') and in taking the Host to women at home (which would be unseemly for a man to do).

Notice something there? They existed _for and because_ of sex divisions that the progressives have destroyed. So they aren't strictly needed anymore


???

The 2nd is tantalizing to me. The first sounds more along what I thought. My church interprets "deacon" as "teacher" which makes no sense as rabbi is the hebrew and magister is the latin.

What does that word mean? I've already had my requisite "no female priest" debate today with my favorite sjw, but i want to understand if the resistance to female deacons is theologically solid or fencing the law to prevent egregious sin.

Blogger professorastro August 02, 2016 2:59 PM  

@58 I think you are correct. Note that in the early 2nd C. Pliny the Younger had two deaconesses tortured to find out about Christian worship.

Blogger hoosiertoo August 02, 2016 3:10 PM  

Wherein Ann Barnhardt Paraphrases Churchill…

The Novus Ordo Church was offered a choice between heresy and schism. It chose heresy. It will get schism too.

Blogger tz August 02, 2016 3:26 PM  

@83 Why I left Babylon. The Catholic Church isn't the Whore of Babylon but seem to invite them into the sanctuary.

Our church has one altar-girl, but she is careful and dresses in the cossacks the boys wear and generally fit in with the boys it took me a while to be sure. She doesn't assist at the Sunday Latin Mass, but there are over a half dozen men and boys assisting, there's barely room (and the only unfortunate thing is the alto-soprano bias of the wonderful choir. Their renditions of Palestrina literally bring me to tears, with a few more tenors and basses it could be confused for angels singing).

That said, Women can not be consecrated into deacons any more than orange juice and a rice cake can be transubstantiated.

@54 It was funny, but I'd pass on the seminarian, it might be another lesbian who wants to be a bishop.

They should rename "deacon" to "servant", or "scullion" or some other correct and clearer term that indicates the office is one for sacrifice and suffering, not leadership and only the women who wanted to truly be un-ordained servants would apply.

(They also make the deaconate hard - they had an intro for what it is to be a Deacon here and it was a 5 year obstacle course, except they would help if you were married and your wife agreed - Not exactly feminized per se but not something encouraging to men).

Blogger Anchorman August 02, 2016 3:40 PM  

For all the defects of the Catholics (not one myself) I will say they do not seem to be all that fag friendly

Yet.

It's about breaking down the first barrier. Chip, chip, chip. Then the next one.

They aren't there...yet.

Blogger CM August 02, 2016 3:45 PM  

Maybe if they were more fag friendly, there'd be more male voices in the choir.

Apparently the men aren't doing it enough to the men's liking.

Seriously, the complaints are like women complaining about the lack of female engineers. Only men CAN sing better than women engineer.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 02, 2016 3:58 PM  

GreyS wrote:He's slyly done similar things when he sees it necessary to open up simmering topics for discussion while not having intention to change Church teaching.

Objection; assuming facts not in evidence.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 02, 2016 4:08 PM  

CM wrote:Do you know how freaking hard it is to convince men to join a choir??? I have heard amazing baritones and bass in congregations, but its like pulling teeth to convince them the choir is worthwhile or that they are capable of doing it.
Perhaps, just perhaps, having a male-only choir, run by men for men, would alleviate the problem. Straight men generally don't want to spend their time listening to women, especially listening to women telling them what to do.

Anonymous rubberducky August 02, 2016 4:12 PM  

Told you. Liberation Theology is, just like John Paul II said, a heresy. And Francis is a liberation theologian who lies about about that. He's a Marxist who uses the Gospel as a tool for social justice, exactly as liberation theology prescribes.

Blogger Marie August 02, 2016 4:14 PM  

@CM

You will have better luck if you have an all male choir or part of a choir at first. Let them get together and practice on their own. Maybe take certain Masses or certain songs in a Mass.

Guys are guys. They like to do things their way.

My father had a wonderful baritone and loved to sing. He would never go near the choir. Too many women.

Blogger CM August 02, 2016 4:18 PM  

@Marie -really?

Well what if they rehearsed separately? Its frustrating because women volunteer for choir in droves. One choir i know of required the women to be able to read music and sight read to even sing with no such req on men and they still dominated.

I love all male choirs, too. And female choirs. Maybe its not a bad idea to have the rehearse separately with only a morning of group rehearsal...

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 02, 2016 4:24 PM  

Married men don't socialize with women. You may have noticed. Men only hang with women not their wives in hopes of getting laid, not because they enjoy their company.
That's why, as is sometimes said around here, "women ruin everything".
If you want men to participate, make it a male-dominated activity, and the only way to do that in the modern world is to make it a men-only activity. Otherwise, when the first woman joins the group (yes, including you), she will start telling men what to do, putting limits and mandates on them, and making it generally unpleasant for men.

So start a men's choir, let them manage it, let them recruit for it. You'll be amazed.

Blogger CM August 02, 2016 4:26 PM  

Ok... it really bugs me that men and women are so different they can't even manage to sing together. My parents sang together. There is absolutely no replacement for well executed harmonies.

Blogger CM August 02, 2016 4:27 PM  

Thank you!

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 02, 2016 4:36 PM  

"Singing together" is not the same thing as "joining a social club that provides music for church services."

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 02, 2016 4:36 PM  

Ok... it really bugs me that men and women are so different they can't even manage to sing together.

They can, if a man is in charge, and the other men respect him. These conditions are generally rare.

Reading music isn't as common as it once was, either, but that's a different issue.

Anonymous Camilla Cameo August 02, 2016 5:00 PM  

And just before this, he set out to destroy proper religious life for women by issuing a document on contemplative nuns which strips convents of autonomy and mandates a nine-year waiting period before a novice can make her vows. (Six months-one year was the previous norm.)

Anonymous johnc August 02, 2016 5:30 PM  

Isn't there some kind of requirement that the pope be Catholic?

Blogger Jim Carroll August 02, 2016 5:37 PM  

johnc wrote:Isn't there some kind of requirement that the pope be Catholic?



While at Notre Dame, Alvin Plantinga once joked that he'd be the first Calvinist Pope but then realized that the head football coach has a higher position there. :-)

Blogger Eric Medvich August 02, 2016 5:59 PM  

The truth is that girls and women have dominated the Roman Catholic liturgy for the last 30 years, filling the role of altar boys (officially) and Deacons (unofficially). While their is evidence for female deacons in the ancient church, it should be noted that tradition (Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox) has considered their roles as "Deacons" as that of teacher (a la Sunday school) and intermediary between the laity and the presbyter. This was the similar for men in the same role, except male "Deacons" also aided in the Sunday celebration, or liturgy. The role of the more modern "Deacon" developed over time to absorb both roles and was reserved to only men of good standing in the Church and ordained to the role by the Bishop. These "Deacons" have the primary role of aiding the Priest in the Liturgy and the secondary role of aiding the Priest in his interaction with the laity. Since only males can aid the Priest in the offering and sacrifice, this position is reserved only to males to eliminate confusion.

Blogger Bard August 02, 2016 6:03 PM  

Infallible indeed...mother may I?

Anonymous Hezekiah Garrett August 02, 2016 6:15 PM  

@105 You gotta be a troll, defending Gaia-worshipping crones.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 02, 2016 6:41 PM  

Hezekiah Garrett wrote:You gotta be a troll, defending Gaia-worshipping crones.

The gaia-worshipping crones are not the ones entering contemplative orders.
This is a direct jab at the younger orders like the Nashville Dominican sisters and the sisters of Maria, Mater Eucharistae. They are growing almost geometrically and are having a hard time even housing, let alone training and integrating, their novices.
The gaia-worshiping crones of the Leadership Council of Women Religious HATE them and want to do everything they can to impede them. That's who Francis is accommodating with this move.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 02, 2016 6:58 PM  

Isn't there some kind of requirement that the pope be Catholic?

Yes. Male and Catholic. That's it. And a "Catholic" is someone who has been baptized and who holds to the fullness of the Catholic faith.

(As I understand it, if a non-bishop were elected and accepted, they would immediately ordain him to the episcopate, since the pope is also Bishop of Rome.)

Anonymous Hezekiah Garrett August 02, 2016 7:02 PM  

@105 I am utterly sorry, Camille Cameo, that in my ignorance I accused you falsely of something dreadful. I beg your forgiveness AND your prayers.

@111. Thanks, I had NO idea and thought the LCWR crackdown B16 started was the thing being referred to.

In looking into it, finding, of course, that you are both spot on, I discovered this gem in a summary from the Natl Catholic Distorter...
Disallow "recruitment of candidates from other countries solely for the sake of ensuring the survival of a monastery," stating it should be "absolutely avoided"...

So welcome immigrants UNLESS it screws the Nashville Dominicans?

Anonymous Gen. Kong August 02, 2016 7:07 PM  

Pertinent to all this, and to yesterday's discussion: Bernhardt doubles-down on her Francis as Anti-Pope argument. In this post, she dangles the possibility of his being the False-Prophet mentioned in Revelation.

Blogger Cail Corishev August 02, 2016 7:23 PM  

Camilla and Snidley are right on the money. The orders of young, contemplative nuns (that means they stay in the convent and pray, sometimes cutting off all contact, sometimes having rare visits with family) are growing like crazy, and they're the ones Francis is hassling. The old pantsuit sisters who gave up teaching and nursing to go into anti-nuke protesting and other liberal causes were being investigated by the Vatican for abandoning their mission, agitating for leftist causes like womyn priests and "women's health care" (a thinly-veiled name for abortion), and generally being obnoxious. That faded away with Francis.

Francis is a naturalist, so he sees a woman locked away in a convent as wasting her life, when she could be out there feeding the poor or washing a Muslim's feet or something. And it's not that the Corporal Works of Mercy aren't important, but they aren't more important than God and the time we spend with Him in prayer.

Francis isn't misguided, misquoted, or wrong sometimes on accident. He's wrong every time because his fundamental beliefs are wrong. The man couldn't get past question #4 in a 7-year-old's Baltimore Catechism: "Why did God make me?" The answer is, "To know Him, love Him, and serve Him in this world, and to be happy with Him for ever in heaven." Francis would probably say something about being kind to others and visiting with old people who are lonely.

And yes, you can "interpret" him to mean you can do the "serve Him" part by helping others, but A) that's not what he means, and B) he never touches the rest of the sentence. "Know Him" and "love Him" would probably be exclusionary toward atheists, and mentioning heaven might imply that not everyone makes it there. But mostly, God and heaven just aren't on his mind, because they aren't part of the natural world.

Anonymous GreyS August 02, 2016 7:37 PM  

And it's okay for the Pope to be sly?

Meh. He's smart and is deftly handling the situation. He deals with these evil fruits of Protestantism all the time.

Anonymous Alice De Goon August 02, 2016 8:18 PM  

You guys all scoffed at me when I told you this Pope would be performing gay marriages within ten years. Modernism and poz are like a freight train. Almost impossible to stop once they truly get going (and slow to stop once you begin to resist them.)

Anonymous Gen. Kong August 02, 2016 8:22 PM  

He's smart and is deftly handling the situation. He deals with these evil fruits of Protestantism all the time.

… and Imam al-Duhbya the Mahdi of West Texas was a double-triple seecrit conservative who's gonna stick it to them libtards any day now…. Maybe you should get a new handle for yourself like Cleopatra, since you appear to enjoy de Nile travel.

Blogger LP9 Solidified in Gold! Rin Integra August 02, 2016 8:43 PM  

Men around the world whom understand children, lunatics and women ARE UNFIT to run anything let alone be admitted into leadership in the RCC.

I fully endorse sensitivity training for the Pope to wear high heels - anything can happen, talk about twisting the minds of the RCC.

These popes are perverse, untenable and ruinous their directives are gross murderous negligence!

Blogger TM Lutas August 02, 2016 8:51 PM  

Personnel is policy. You're not going to get far in analysis without both knowing who is on the commission and what perspectives they come to the issues. Here's an article that gives the names and some of the background as to how this thing got rolling.

http://americamagazine.org/content/all-things/vatican-francis-announces-commission-women-deacons

Blogger Cail Corishev August 02, 2016 8:54 PM  

@117, If he's not performing them, he'll be turning a blind eye as others do so. He supported civil unions for homosexuals in Argentina. Amoris Laetitia sets the groundwork for giving homosexual couples Holy Communion -- there's no reason its "mercy" toward those in "non-traditional arrangements" has to be limited to man-woman couples.

About a year ago, a priest named Krzysztof Charamsa working at the Vatican proudly announced that he was homosexual and living with his boyfriend. He miscalculated a bit, because they fired him from his post -- having him at the department that's in charge of protecting Church doctrine was a little too on the nose -- but he was never required to recant or disciplined in any public way to counter the scandal. In fact, a month later he did an interview where he said, "I now feel better gay and more of a priest than before," and complained about how the Church "kills [homosexuals] psychologically." Crickets from the Vatican and his bishop.

There's a whole lot of winking and nodding going on with this issue, and Francis couldn't be much more gay-friendly if he wore a rainbow cassock.

Anonymous A Visitor August 02, 2016 10:33 PM  

Saw a couple things that were wrong here so I figured I would point them out.

@8. I've never heard of the Pope being married, ever.

@20. How has he?

There was more but I've missed it.

Those aside:

@52 They may have to consecrate the building after that.

@54 Remember they agree to obey the bishop/archbishop (and by extension the Pope). He may not have seen it as a joke. Good joke though.

@57 I'll forget you said that.

@79. In Novus Ordo Mass women serving as altar servers, saying the Readings (not Gospel), and Eucharistic Ministers (in general, not just women) are allowed (even though EMs have been seriously abused). In Tridentine Masses, none of that is allowed. Yeah, we're not fag friendly because it's a disordered tendency and the sin of sodomy is a sin that cries out to Heaven for vengeance (that's how bad of a mortal sin it is).

Regarding this study, there will never be any women priests in the Roman Catholic Church since Christ never gave the Apostles to ordain women as priests. Who knows? He might actually be doing this to settle it and in a way that the Liberals do not want.

Anonymous GreyS August 02, 2016 10:33 PM  

If he's not performing them, he'll be turning a blind eye as others do so. He supported civil unions for homosexuals in Argentina.

False. The bishops there were fighting against the legalization of gay "marriage" and there was a rumor by an activist that said Bergoglio floated the idea of civil unions as a stopgap measure to prevent full-blown homosexual marriage. True or not, the bishops didn't see this as an answer and they all stuck together on it.

But you use rumors because it suits you to NOT use what he really said at the time:

“In the coming weeks, the Argentine people will face a situation whose outcome can seriously harm the family…At stake is the identity and survival of the family: father, mother and children. At stake are the lives of many children who will be discriminated against in advance, and deprived of their human development given by a father and a mother and willed by God. At stake is the total rejection of God’s law engraved in our hearts. Let us not be naive: this is not simply a political struggle, but it is an attempt to destroy God’s plan. It is not just a bill (a mere instrument) but a ‘move’ of the father of lies who seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God.”

Of course that doesn't fit your "The Real Pope Is Living With His Mom In Iowa" agenda but that's your problem.

Amoris Laetitia sets the groundwork for giving homosexual couples Holy Communion

Rubbish. Nothing in there about homosexuality or anything close. Here's part of what the document says: Christian marriage, as a reflection of the union between Christ and his Church, is fully realized in the union between a man and a woman who give themselves to each other in a free, faithful and exclusive love, who belong to each other until death and are open to the transmission of life, and are consecrated by the sacrament, which grants them the grace to become a domestic church and a leaven of new life for society.

In order to avoid all misunderstanding, I would point out that in no way must the Church desist from proposing the full ideal of marriage, God’s plan in all its grandeur. . . .

A lukewarm attitude, any kind of relativism, or an undue reticence in proposing that ideal, would be a lack of fidelity to the Gospel and also of love on the part of the Church for young people themselves.

To show understanding in the face of exceptional situations never implies dimming the light of the fuller ideal, or proposing less than what Jesus offers to the human being"


a priest named Krzysztof Charamsa...Crickets from the Vatican and his bishop He was immediately suspended and his priestly faculties were taken away. You were expecting a presser by Francis?

There's a whole lot of winking and nodding going on with this issue, and Francis couldn't be much more gay-friendly if he wore a rainbow cassock.

No evidence of that. Of course, no evidence that the farm fields of Iowa hold the True Pontiff either.

Anonymous GreyS August 02, 2016 10:46 PM  

and Imam al-Duhbya the Mahdi of West Texas was a double-triple seecrit conservative who's gonna stick it to them libtards any day now…. Maybe you should get a new handle for yourself like Cleopatra, since you appear to enjoy de Nile travel.

That's part of the problem. American conservatives extrapolate their "left vs right" political views onto the Church and onto whatever issue the Church is dealing with. They are so shortsighted they cannot comprehend someone who doesn't plug right into the Republican Party and Methodist or Baptist platform. They see someone who doesn't rail like their fav talk radio host and it baffles them so they say "libtard!" They see someone who talks about the bad parts of consumerism and capitalism and they scream "Commie!" They see someone who treats homosexuals as fellow children of God and they yell "Secret Homo!"

Francis is dealing with this crap BECAUSE OF the fruits of protestantism and what "conservative" protestants have wrought over the years.

Anonymous Jack Amok August 02, 2016 10:49 PM  

Wow, I got disposed twice. Is Vox going to pull a Mozambique drill and hit me a third time?

Anonymous VFM#0265 August 02, 2016 11:03 PM  

Wow....stunning, even for Francine. Well, thanks to Dalrock here are two areas of the Bible which directly refute females in any priestly or teaching capacity:
Titus 2:3-5 & 1 Timothy 2:11-15.

Thanks, Big D!

Blogger Cail Corishev August 02, 2016 11:06 PM  

GreyS,

I specifically linked to a National Catholic Reporter article about Bergoglio's support for civil unions because that's a liberal source (so liberal even some modernist bishops have said it should remove "Catholic" from its name) which is normally a big fan of Francis. Of course, there's enough misinformation and obfuscation out there that if you want to find a way to excuse each bizarre statement and action from the Francis Vatican, you'll find material to do so on all these stories. That's how Modernists work. You have to look at the entirety of the evidence, three years of Francis on the throne and his years in Argentina, plus the fruits that follow, and apply your God-given reason. That's a lot more likely to get you to the truth than analyzing each statement in a vacuum, ignoring any other facts that don't fit the interpretation you like.

Your personal insults and strawmen about popes in Iowa (what?) are indicative of the power of your arguments. Very persuasive, keep it up.

Blogger Jim August 02, 2016 11:27 PM  

A Visitor wrote:Saw a couple things that were wrong here so I figured I would point them out.

@8. I've never heard of the Pope being married, ever.


Peter was married. It's tough to have a mother in law otherwise.

Blogger William Hughes August 02, 2016 11:48 PM  

There have been more shocking Popes. I am a Catholic, with five children, and I fear we are about to be tested. May God spare us this test.

Anonymous GreyS August 02, 2016 11:57 PM  

@127 What exactly have you got? All you do is use innuendo and "we all know what that means" generalizations and just plain lies where needed.

But what is the actual point you are trying to make with all the fake drama? The sky...errr...St Peter's dome is falling in...???

Anonymous johnc August 03, 2016 12:25 AM  

Much of what Ann Barnhardt says is definitely on the table IMO. From what I see I don't think Benedict is still the pope, but I've had doubts for a long while that Francis is.

2017 will be an interesting year.

Anonymous Eric the Red August 03, 2016 12:41 AM  

The Catholic hierarcy being celibate and all, then they're not familiar with or even cognizant of Game. Hypergamy and shit tests will be their downfall.

Blogger bob k. mando August 03, 2016 12:52 AM  

14. haus frau August 02, 2016 11:47 AM
but I found myself accidentally sitting in on a Mennonite church service last Sunday. The grange whose commercial kitchen I rent had opened their hall to a local Mennonite congregation because their church was too small to accommodate all of them on this particular occasion. I don't understand the main differences between them and other Christian sects.



Mennonite are the liberal, original wing of the Amish.

yes, you read that right, the Amish are the younger denomination and broke off from the Mennos.

Amish / Mennonite are all pretty hard core on the pacifism thing. there are also Old German Baptists. unless you're on the inside it's pretty hard to tell which is which sometimes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Brethren_German_Baptist

some of the Mennonite branches are pretty converged. Goshen College is a Mennonite affiliation as is about as converged as anything you'll find.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goshen_College

Anonymous George of the Jungle August 03, 2016 1:05 AM  

The main purpose of traditional civilization is to prevent women from believing their own bullshit.

Anonymous Bukulu August 03, 2016 1:22 AM  

"Was Jesus really ever ‘sly’? That seems unlikely to me"

Well, there's that whole business in the Gospel of John about going/not going up to Jerusalem for the feast.

Anonymous artaud August 03, 2016 2:59 AM  

"I don't think I've personally seen a woman read the gospel"

I've NEVER seen anyone but a priest read the Gospel. I always thought that was a matter of liturgical orthodoxy. Women sometimes do one of the first two readings (most often the second, from the epistles), though in my experience it's not very common.

Anonymous Anonymous August 03, 2016 3:05 AM  

@13

Well Byzantine rite allows married men become priests. After you became a priest you can't be married.

Blogger Doom August 03, 2016 3:07 AM  

You know something else that was common in the early church? Multiple wives. Actually, nothing in or about the church, or bible, suggests otherwise. Yeah, no. Christ said man and woman, in a time and place were multiple wives were not only common, it was law. The only thing ever discussed against it was that deacons should have only one wife. That was merely a recommendation at that.

They open Pandora's box, they will find that they won't win. God is tricky in a non-tricky way on these things. Multiple wives would do two things... crush feminism and create a huge demanding base. We'll see. Feminism will lose, if it takes surrender by to West to islam to do it. I just think there might be better ways. Especially if the right to property is removed, multiple wives becomes a common element, and the children stay with the father. At least if things can be contained as modern and civil. Otherwise grass huts, rape culture, and mothers in charge until their sons can beat them over the head and do as they please.

Blogger Mrs. Boucher August 03, 2016 4:05 AM  

At this rate, he is going to change his name to Francine, declare himself a trans-woman, approve married clergy, and announce his marriage to an imam before Christmas.

LOL. As for the ordination of women, is has clearly been a disastrous decision and this question of female deacons, while it may be something that actually can be discussed, because of early Church history, unlike the priesthood, simply should not be. Not now, when Christianity is weakest it has been in centuries and the obvious motive for pushing it is not service to God, but to Equality.

Even the narrative "...first step towards correcting this imbalance" is pure feminism and entryism into Catholic hierarchy.

What the hell is wrong with this Pope? I heard others say that we've had worst popes, but I can't see it. Some were crazy, others adulterers and hypocrites but that combined is better than what we have now.

Blogger darrenl August 03, 2016 7:46 AM  

This commission is not looking into whether or not women should be ordained as deacons. Like the article said: "..will study the question of female deacons with a particular focus on the history of women having played this role in the early years of the Church".

There is no indication that any action will be taken once the study is completed.

My read is that they will do the study, then leave the matter open as they did in 2002.

I like Fr. Z's take on this:

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2016/08/some-choose-to-lose-their-souls-to-gain-the-whole-world-but-for-women-deacons/

Anonymous SanityClause August 03, 2016 7:50 AM  

in a potentially historic opening on the possibility of women joining the clergy

"Potentially historic opening on the possibility". "Potentially", "possibility of", so...what is the "potential" and the "possibility of", exactly? Could I see some numbers?

There are certain things a Pope is not allowed to do, certain doctrines that he is not allowed to change, I believe this is one of them. Therefore, the “possibility” is zero, and the idea that the possibility is non-zero is simply the MSM's wishful thinking. They wish it because, as we have seen, they are working for the other side.

Meanwhile, since the Pope is merely setting up a commission to study the matter, that commission will merely come to the conclusion that I have stated above. They will say, as was said 2000 years ago, that women are allowed to do such and such, but are not allowed to be priests, and thus not allowed to act as priests. The exact “possibility” will thus remain at zero.

This is the MSM.
The MSM is dominated by SJW's.
SJW's always (fill in the blank).
You actually thought they were telling the truth?
You reacted to this as if it were true?

Blogger Doom August 03, 2016 11:46 AM  

Believe as you wish. I do not believe this man, as with Zero, feels any obligation to follow rules, laws, has any honor, or is good. As such, he will do what he can to destroy, and he will open up what he can for some future servant of the destroyer. White-knight for him all you please, the faithful know evil when they see it. Given the givens, you look less as a protector of the pope and more as a co-conspirator. As was mentioned, if the msm keeps getting him wrong he would have backed away from them long ago. Who, exactly, is whom's tool and mouthpiece? Altogether evil.

Blogger psieve2 August 03, 2016 1:17 PM  

Popes can't appoint successors which, in his case, is a good thing.

Blogger psieve2 August 03, 2016 1:36 PM  

It is is no light matter to ad-hominem attack a pope, as much as one may be asking for it, though complaiming about one's actions and words (though often misinterpreted by the press, His selections to high offices and praising of radical abortion supporters make one wonder each time) are less in danger of retraction. Still, it could open us up to pride, despite being right. God will have to be their judge, if a canonical court can't or won't find grounds for deposing a pope, if that's possible. God will probably let him die, if he's ever a threat to the Church. Those formalities, even if poorly carried out, separate us from the other churches that make up stuff as they go along, based on their feelings, even if aroused by a truth, about the situation. That's how they get all these thousands of churches with equally no authority. I have to remind myself of these things and have confessed them recently.

Blogger Roger G2 August 04, 2016 3:59 PM  


"At this rate, he is going to change his name to Francine, declare himself a trans-woman, approve married clergy, and announce his marriage to an imam before Christmas."

Nothing today will make me laugh out loud the way this did. Funny stuff.
Funny but true, probably.

Blogger MrNiceguy August 09, 2016 2:24 PM  

I'm late to the conversation, but you're absolutely right. I grew up in a Mennonite Church that left the denomination rather than join MCUSA. They've thrown out scripture in exchange for"tolerance". They've made the Mennonite tradition of pacifism their new god.

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