ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2016 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Thursday, August 18, 2016

A prescription for Africa

Peter Grant provides his thoughts on aiding Africa:
Based on my extensive experience of Africa, I suggest there are two - and only two - ways in which Western aid should be focused in the short term.  The first is education.  Teach people the basics of how to think, how to use their brains - and do so in a way that is tailored to their current levels of intelligence.  Don't expect a teenager with an IQ of 70 to function at the same level as someone with an IQ of 100.  He must be taught things he can do - and at which he can succeed - that are commensurate with where he's at right now.  That way, he won't get discouraged and abandon his studies.  He can be set tasks that grow progressively more complex and more difficult, but not at a level he can't master.  His children will go further, and his children's children further still . . . but he won't.  He can't.  That's the brutal reality of the situation.

The second way in which aid can be useful is in providing basic infrastructure that is operable, and maintainable, and sustainable, by people in the IQ range we've discussed.  Examples:
  • It's pointless giving them a complex engine-powered pump to bring up water from a well if they aren't capable of maintaining it.  Rather give them a hand-operated pump, one they can understand, and which they can repair themselves if it breaks down.  It's more and harder work to use it, but it's also more practicable for them.  When it comes to health care, providing mosquito nets and clean water and hygiene education is far more important than providing anti-AIDS drug cocktails.  Sure, without the latter, people will die;  but without the former, many more people will die. Invest limited resources where they'll do the most good for the greatest number.  Yes, that means some people will be condemned to die.  That's economic and cultural reality in Africa.  Live with it.
  • I've seen several entrepreneurs in Africa take discarded Western high technology, 'dumb it down', and use it with great success.  Example:  pedal-powered washing machines (which we've discussed here before).  Old, broken-down automatic washing machines are connected to good old-fashioned bicycles mounted on frames, using drive belts made from locally-produced leather or cloth.  Result;  the pedalers earn a living, local women can wash their clothes much faster and more conveniently than taking them down to the local river (where they're frequently preyed on by crocodiles), and the entrepreneur who put the whole idea together becomes a Big Man in the local economy - and is able to use his profits for other useful economic ideas.  Moral of the story:  find individuals with that sort of entrepreneurial drive, and help them.  That aid will 'trickle down' into the local community and benefit everyone.
  • The corollary to the above is that aid must not - repeat, must not - be given to government officials and bureaucrats who'll siphon it off into their own pockets.  Corruption, nepotism and dishonesty are not just rife in Africa - they're a way of life.  Tragically, too many agencies and large aid organizations (all of which should know better) are willing to let dishonest governments and bureaucrats handle aid money, so as not to offend local sensibilities or be seen as 'neo-colonial' in their attitudes.  Worse, some of them openly bribe governments and bureaucrats, figuring that it's better to do that in order to ensure that at least some of the aid they provide reaches those for whom it's intended.  Often that proportion is ten per cent or less - the rest lines venal pockets further up the food chain.
  • Finally, aid must be distributed in a way that is accountable.  Money and supplies must be accounted for when they arrive, while being sent to their final destination, and upon delivery.  The way they're used must be monitored, and any discrepancy must result in disciplinary action - i.e. the withholding of further aid from the miscreant(s) involved.  There can be no blind acceptance of someone's bona fides unless their actions match their words.  There can be no resigned, shoulder-shrugging acceptance of 'shrinkage' without a major effort to minimize losses.  If that isn't done, the venality of Africa will soon ensure that most (if not all) of the aid sent is diverted into fat-cat pockets.  (How do you think Mobutu Sese Seko, President of Zaire, managed to embezzle between $4 billion and $15 billion during his time in power?  It sure wasn't his salary!)
There is a third way in which aid might be profitably spent - but it'll never fly, because it's 100% politically incorrect.  That way would be to hire mercenaries - probably former servicemen from Western armies and their allies - to pacify an area, ensuring that aid workers can operate safely and without coercion.  They can raise and train a local militia if responsible individuals can be found, but that's unlikely at first.  It'll be more important for them to proactively attack local thugs and gangs.  That'll be an object lesson to everybody - "Get with the program, or get dead!"  In an environment where life is so cheap, and atrocities are everyday occurrences, that's probably the only way in which this could work.  However, the reaction to that by liberals and progressives would be so outraged that, as I said, this idea will never fly.
While I agree with Peter's diagnosis, I don't agree with his prescription. Education will not change one single damn thing in Africa because it cannot. The intelligence gap between Europe and Africa is genetic and only several centuries of ruthless eugenics will raise the average intelligence of the latter continent. In fact, despite more people being more educated than ever before, the dysgenic social structure of both the European nations and the USA has already reduced their average intelligence levels; the gap is being reduced, but by lowering the average intelligence levels in Europe and the USA.

That is why we are seeing the Western countries gradually start resembling the better third-world countries. Over time, they will start to resemble Africa, and similar behavioral patterns will begin to exert themselves. The only good news, if it can be described as that, is that the Western warlords of the future will likely be considerably smarter than their African counterparts, so perhaps there will be the occasional Singapore that can serve as the core of a new high-IQ civilization.

And since  the current population explosion in Africa is almost certainly dysgenic, I expect that the average intelligence will actually decline in Africa and the situation will get even worse there, with widespread cannibalism and other practices even more depraved and demonic than mutu beginning to appear.

The more I look at the global situation, the more I am convinced that those in the 1980s who thought Japan and China would dominate the world were correct, they were simply about 100 years early. The fall of the Soviet Union was not the triumph of Western liberal democracy, it was its last chance, but instead of taking that chance, the liberal democracies slashed their own throats. Yes, Japan and China are both economic disasters, but they are still smart, homogeneous nations and they will bounce right back from the next economic crash. Most of the nations of the West are not, and therefore they will not be able to do so.

That, I think, is why China is biding its time. It has no need to defeat the USA. It need only wait and let the USA finish destroying itself.

Labels: ,

178 Comments:

Anonymous Red August 18, 2016 4:37 AM  

Before the British put an end to it the Ashanti of west Africa were busy civilizing themselves by either killing off or enslaving anyone in their lands who couldn't act in a civilized manner. If they'd been allowed to continue for another 500 years or so they would have advanced from half civilized to full civilized.

Blogger guest August 18, 2016 4:49 AM  

As far as AIDS funding goes, why are we doing anything more in the US? We have burned billions of tax-payer dollars, which has morphed into an AIDS industry, and the end result is that more Americans now have AIDS. What's more, gay men are molesting boys, so that the highest population of newly acquired HIV is in teenage boys.

That includes white gay men too, by the way.

Anonymous Philipp August 18, 2016 5:03 AM  

James Watson:"I am inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa because all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours – whereas all the testing says not really."

Blogger Laramie Hirsch August 18, 2016 5:11 AM  

I have an even better idea of how to help Africans. We build a charity campaign to fly as many of the 3.5 million white South Africans out of there, and we import them, starting with the poorest.

You know, there are formerly middle/upper class whites now being forced to live in garbage dumps, and prohibited from building solid houses in these dumps? Five water faucets for 300 families, man.

Fucking awful.

The most people know about South Africa comes from Lethal Weapon 2.

Blogger bob k. mando August 18, 2016 5:14 AM  

VD
That, I think, is why China is biding its time. It has no need to defeat the USA. It need only wait and let the USA finish destroying itself.



i know that my characterization of modern America as first entity in the world capable of fulfilling the characterizations of the Whore of Babylon as found in Rev 18 are rather unorthodox, even for Protestants ( heh ).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whore_of_Babylon#Modern_America_as_Babylon

however, i've had a further thought:
what if Hillary were to win the next election?

Hillary has already accepted hundreds of millions of dollars ( at a minimum ) from the 'kings of the earth'. she is, figuratively, probably the greatest whore to have ever lived.

were she to become President of the first nation that "the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more", would this not become just a bit TOO special?

*shiver*

Blogger American Spartan August 18, 2016 5:22 AM  

Hey Vox, do you think there is any way to avoid a massive civil war in America or has that ship sailed?

Do you think Trump/Nationalist will do anything meaning full to limit immigration with their time in office?

Do you think the nationalist wing of the GOP will take over the party in the next 4-8 years?

Thank you for your time, love your blog.

Anonymous Spinrad's Agent August 18, 2016 5:27 AM  

The West should cease providing aid to Africa. There is more than enough local wealth on the continent to pay for solutions to any and all problems. One need only see the assets and lifestyle of the Mugabe family in Hong Kong to see how much is being siphoned out of ordinary people's pockets. (I know it's not Africa, but it's worth keeping in mind that the Suharto family secreted an estimated US$40 billion offshore before daddy was deposed. How many Suharto families are there in Africa today?)

If the West really can't wean itself off providing aid - i.e., it's still collectively wringing its hands over King Leopold II and his ilk (not dread), then handing out money to random individuals would be infinitely better than funding foreign experts and local parasites and grifters to run "development programs".

And besides, if Western governments want to use aid as a lever to influence Africa (build democracy, make them more like us, etc.), then they've missed the boat. China (using diplomacy, Chinese businesses, both large and small, and other means) has well and truly won that round.

And yes, China is biding its time. There are of course Chinese hawks who relish the thought of war (proxy or otherwise), but in general calmer minds have prevailed and it's now a waiting game. The migration mess in the US and EU has reinforced in the Chinese mind the strength of homogeneity (as if they needed to see that), and the slow collapse of those two economies is now just a matter of time. China (and Japan/Korea) knows it just has to sit it out - which for a culture that thinks in centuries rather than quarters is pretty must SOP.

Blogger FALPhil August 18, 2016 5:31 AM  

Yes, Japan and China are both economic disasters, but they are still smart, homogeneous nations and they will bounce right back from the next economic crash.

Japan's problem is that their birth rate is so low, they just might die out before they bounce back.

China is not so homogeneous. Sure, they are overwhelmingly Han, but China even has it's own mohammedan problem with the Uyghurs. Another problem they have is that they have begun showing tendencies towards empire, a la USA, and we know where that leads.

Blogger pdwalker August 18, 2016 5:42 AM  

As was mentioned in the comments of a previous post, Kim du Toit said it best years ago by saying "Let Africa Sink" (It's a shame he closed down his blog).

China sees itself as a civilization that has survived, more or less intact, over three and a half thousand years. Their leaders idea of a short term game is on the order of decades.

It makes me wish I had a magic crystal ball just to see how everything is going to play out over the next thousand years.

What a shame the West collectively lost their balls for the last hundred years.

Hopefully the West will be reborn.

Anonymous Garrulus August 18, 2016 5:48 AM  

looks like europa took
THE BLACK PILL

Blogger VD August 18, 2016 5:53 AM  

Hey Vox, do you think there is any way to avoid a massive civil war in America or has that ship sailed?

Secession and partition.

Do you think Trump/Nationalist will do anything meaning full to limit immigration with their time in office?

They will probably limit it. They will probably fail to grasp the necessary nettle of mass deportations.

Do you think the nationalist wing of the GOP will take over the party in the next 4-8 years?

Yes, if Trump wins. Not sure what will happen if Hillary wins. The cucks will claim they were right, but Hillary will create more nationalists.

Japan's problem is that their birth rate is so low, they just might die out before they bounce back.

That is totally idiotic. You midwits who don't understand demographics need to stop talking about it. The population of Japan when it invaded China and attacked the USA was 64 million. Japan's population now is 126 million. Population decline is not dying out.

China is not so homogeneous. Sure, they are overwhelmingly Han, but China even has it's own mohammedan problem with the Uyghurs.

China is 92 percent Han. That's more homogeneous than the USA ever was. Moreover, the ethnic minorities are all concentrated. There are 1.3 billion Han and 10 million Uyghurs. The Han could wipe them out in a month if they wanted without breaking a sweat.

Blogger Rantor August 18, 2016 6:03 AM  

@8 China has sent tens of millions of Chinese to drive the Uyghers out of their lands and reinforce Chinese supremacy... I don't expect the Uyghers to win this fight.

Blogger Noah B August 18, 2016 6:07 AM  

The media selling the "Japan is doomed" narrative are attempting to convince Japan to open its borders to third world immigration. Fortunately the Japanese don't seem inclined to listen.

Blogger clk August 18, 2016 6:09 AM  

Wow... is this the premise for your new historical fiction/alt reality series.?.. because its has great potential... this is the reason why futurists are often scifi writers and vise versa .. i personally lean towards future thats better not worse (star trek vs solent green) but thats only my blind optimism stupidity...i would definitely by this book when finished....

Blogger peter blandings August 18, 2016 6:10 AM  

the first thought that comes to mind regarding the essay about helping africa is, with the description by the author, what exactly is the point of bothering?

Blogger Cinco August 18, 2016 6:12 AM  

Yes, that means some people will be condemned to die.

All are condemned to die, eventually. Some just sooner than others. The corollaries between what this man wrote and the book The Ugly American are quite striking. If you have not read The Ugly American you should.

Blogger Leo Little Book in Shenzhen August 18, 2016 6:20 AM  

China will get big, like pre- WWII Japan and post- WWII USSR.

But the gaze of the Middle Kingdom turns inwards, for Han is a wolf to Han.

"Our Land"

Blogger JP August 18, 2016 6:22 AM  

Speaking as a white man living in Africa, I have to agree with mister Grant. I have seen his proposals work with my very own eyes.

Blogger Servant of the Chief August 18, 2016 6:27 AM  

The West has been dysgenic for generations?

Certainly in the most recent generations, I'll concede that point for the cases of both America and France (and probably Spain) but I would contend the lower average IQs in those states are more a result of increased non-white populations rather than the whites themselves becoming objectively stupider. That would take centuries, maybe just one if they aggressively reproduced with non-whites almost exclusively, I dont think the whites have reached that point of dysgenic fuckwittery just yet on a racial level that would significantly impact our genetic posterity that one or two generations of well-ordered breeding wouldnt fix. But then again we are slaughtering our young in their wombs by the millions so maybe we're all secretly barbaric idiots.

Blogger James Dixon August 18, 2016 6:28 AM  

> the first thought that comes to mind regarding the essay about helping africa is, with the description by the author, what exactly is the point of bothering?

That's been my conclusion since the 1980's.

Blogger James Dixon August 18, 2016 6:29 AM  

That's also my conclusion to any Islamic country that gets hit by an earthquake, tidal wave, or any other natural disaster, BTW. It's obviously the will of Allah; why should we interfere?

Blogger VD August 18, 2016 6:37 AM  

The West has been dysgenic for generations?

Since 1965 in the USA. Possibly since 1915 in Europe.

Blogger VD August 18, 2016 6:40 AM  

I would contend the lower average IQs in those states are more a result of increased non-white populations rather than the whites themselves becoming objectively stupider.

True, but both dysgenic elements are active. Intelligent whites have sub-replacement level birth rates and less intelligent whites have more children than their smarter counterparts. So, there are both more low-IQ non-whites and less high-IQ whites.

Dysgenic double-whammy.

Anonymous Rien August 18, 2016 6:43 AM  

You can only help somebody who wants to be helped.
That is where all govt programs fall down of course.
Note btw that "helping" and "giving" are two different things. The difference being defined by the recipient.

Blogger FALPhil August 18, 2016 6:56 AM  

@11 VD
That is totally idiotic. You midwits who don't understand demographics need to stop talking about it. The population of Japan when it invaded China and attacked the USA was 64 million. Japan's population now is 126 million. Population decline is not dying out.

I never claimed to be anything more than a midwit, which is why I hang out here, since I am smart enough to recognize intelligence and have aspirations, but, even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. And in my defense, I did say "might" and not "will".

In the list of birth rates, Japan is third from the bottom.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2054rank.html

The few books I have read on demographics have pointed out that once a population group drops below a certain birth rate, historically, it rarely recovers.

Now, maybe the authors of those books weren't altogether correct on their history. What books would you recommend on demographics? I am here to learn.

Anonymous Hrw-500 August 18, 2016 7:07 AM  

Speaking of China, I spotted this video extracted from the documentary "Empire of Dust"(2011) when a Chinese man tell the truth right in the target to an African.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uqMh_q_HXI

That'll trigger a bunch of Trigglypuffs.

Blogger VD August 18, 2016 7:13 AM  

The few books I have read on demographics have pointed out that once a population group drops below a certain birth rate, historically, it rarely recovers.

Recovers? Japan can barely support 125 million inhabitants. Your argument is based on the idea that Japan will go from 125 million to zero, never mind the fact that for most of Japanese history, Japan consisted of less than 50 million people.

Japan has 8.168 live births per 1,000 people, or 1,029,168 per year. That is considerably north of ZERO. Japan is not about to disappear.

Blogger Sherwood family August 18, 2016 7:16 AM  

The bigger issue with China is that they've had a generation of increasing economic growth which is now slowing and the goodies from coastal elites which have been trickling down to the interior in the form of more wealth are beginning to dry up at the same time that jobs in China are also becoming ever more difficult to find because of lack of demand from export markets. That leaves the possibility of a restive interior population and China has always been plagued, despite its ethnic homogeneity, by the pockets of disgruntled citizenry that don't feel like they are getting the same deal that the big wigs are getting. The Kuomintang and then the Communists capitalized on these sentiments, as did the Taiping previously. Which is not to say that even an event as bloody as the Taiping rebellion would knock China off its current perch but it would certainly tie them up internally for a while. That leaves other powers time and room for maneuver in the same way that U.S. preoccupation in the Middle East left room for Putin to stage a Russian comeback and return that country to a stronger position, even if still weaker than it was at its Soviet peak.

Anonymous Carbon blob August 18, 2016 7:17 AM  

"As far as AIDS funding goes, why are we doing anything more in the US? We have burned billions of tax-payer dollars, which has morphed into an AIDS industry, and the end result is that more Americans now have AIDS."

Western journalism's treatment of AIDS over the last 30 years has been utterly disgraceful. They devoted so much attention to trying to prove that it afflicts gays and heterosexuals equally, when in reality the difference in transmission rates between receiving anal sex and receiving vaginal sex is about 10:1.

Meanwhile herpes, a virus that literally hijacks the central nervous system, flourishes under the radar.

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 18, 2016 7:18 AM  

Something will need to be done about Africa soon.

That particular genetic cluster has had millennia of selective pressure towards fecundity as it's primary species survival trait. Due to the overabundance of disease and predators that prey on humans.

Modern firearms and childhood anti-biotics have created a population H-bomb in Africa. They are going to come bubbling out in about twenty years due to starvation pressure.

First stop, if nothing changes on either side; Europe and then on to America.

The beachheads have already been established.

Blogger Sherwood family August 18, 2016 7:25 AM  

If the U.S. blows up or breaks up then the Chinese and Japanese have their own problems sets to deal with as a result which they would have to manage. But they would certainly be left in the best position to capitalize on the change in the global order, possibly by supplying arms to various former U.S. factions as they kill each other.

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 18, 2016 7:26 AM  

The more I look at the global situation, the more I am convinced that those in the 1980s who thought Japan and China would dominate the world were correct, they were simply about 100 years early.

Agreed. However, I don't think their dominance will last very long, and it'll be costly in the beginning because the West (the social engineers, anyhow) is dead-set on transitioning from USD -> Euro within two decades. That plan can't work if there exists another oil reserve currency, therefore There Will Be War.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling August 18, 2016 7:28 AM  

Echoing @25 FALPhil, what's the useful history on populations recovering from "lowest low" birth rates?

My guess on what's happening is Japan has not in perhaps recorded history been run for the benefit of its people, but it did create an official welfare state (but not a very good one for people in the lower tier of the private economy), and the combination of the two, one discouraging healthy families in general, the second weakening and breaking bonds between generations as it has in the West, is responsible for what we're seeing in birthrates etc.

So, how will they get out of this trap? You need a new and perhaps unprecedented in recorded history ruling class for the former, you need to transition or break out of the welfare state for the later.

Both will be quite disruptive, and the Japanese have a ... complex, you might say, about chaos from the period before the last Shogunate (Sengoku Jidai, Age of Civil War, 1467-1603) and the Shogunate's response to it, and I'm sure from the messy end of the Shogunate. (And I wouldn't be surprised from the destruction of the homeland at the end of WWII, but that was sort of an externally caused thing.)

I suppose they'll be forced to change when they "run out of other people's money" ... and that'll probably be before the population drops too low. Perhaps a bigger issue is that they live in a dangerous neighborhood, and one way or another we're going to be providing them less protection, plus I expect defense spending does not provide the opportunities for graft that things like their civil engineering spending has done since the crash.

Note also that they are not "weeks" or "months" away from having nuclear weapons, they need weapons grade uranium or plutonium to do that, and their (and everyone else's) reactor grade plutonium isotope mix will not work for practical weapons.

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 18, 2016 7:32 AM  

The only good news, if it can be described as that, is that the Western warlords of the future will likely be considerably smarter than their African counterparts, so perhaps there will be the occasional Singapore that can serve as the core of a new high-IQ civilization.

I'm Nate. This is my country. Dammit.

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 18, 2016 7:38 AM  

This is the century of genetic science. Last century was physics. China's government is the first that appears to have realized this.

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 18, 2016 7:42 AM  

This Grant fellow continues to impress.

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 18, 2016 7:46 AM  

Eww...nevermind, he just said that IQ comes from mass schooling.

Blogger Sherwood family August 18, 2016 7:48 AM  

IQ does not come from education. But without education of some kind it is hard to take full advantage of an IQ, high or low. Which is to say, that if you are dealing with a population of average 70 IQs then you need to educate them, but the form that education needs to take is going to be significantly different from trying to education a population with an average IQ of 100.

Blogger weka August 18, 2016 7:52 AM  

Bring Back the Brits, because they did what Mr Grant suggests. Keep the Yanks well away from South Africa.

And if we can't do that, take the few remaining Afrikaaners and settle them in the South Island and Western Australia, then blockade all African and Arab ports.

Treat people smugglers as slavers: for that there is precedent.

Blogger bob k. mando August 18, 2016 7:53 AM  

19. Servant of the Chief August 18, 2016 6:27 AM
That would take centuries



no, it would not.

massive behavioral and physiological changes can be netted out in only four generations.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/03/taming-wild-animals/ratliff-text/2
"By 1964 the fourth generation was already beginning to live up to the researchers' hopes. Trut can still remember the moment when she first saw a fox wag its tail at her approach. Before long, the most tame among them were so doglike that they would leap into researchers' arms and lick their faces."

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 18, 2016 7:57 AM  

bob k. mando wrote:19. Servant of the Chief August 18, 2016 6:27 AM

That would take centuries


no, it would not.

massive behavioral and physiological changes can be netted out in only four generations.


I can't say this for sure, but I believe such radical changes are only possible if the genetic stock is already extant within the organism, waiting to be triggered by epigenetics. It's much easier to reboot a system to a previous safe configuration than to build a new one from scratch.

Anonymous kfg August 18, 2016 7:57 AM  

"Population decline is not dying out."

In fact, regression to the mean is often what prevents populations from dying out.

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 18, 2016 7:58 AM  

If so the scope of such social engineering would be extremely limited.

Blogger bob k. mando August 18, 2016 7:58 AM  

23. VD August 18, 2016 6:40 AM
Dysgenic double-whammy.



dysgenic / dysocial people also tend to start having children at much younger ages, often having their first pregnancy before 15. that can give you seven generations inside of 100 years.

therefore, the generational cycle times of the dysgenic are far faster than the eugenic population and you can 'breed down' much faster than you can breed up.

dysgenic triple-whammy.

Blogger John S August 18, 2016 7:58 AM  

I have an even better idea of how to help Africans. We build a charity campaign to fly as many of the 3.5 million white South Africans out of there, and we import them, starting with the poorest.

You know, there are formerly middle/upper class whites now being forced to live in garbage dumps, and prohibited from building solid houses in these dumps? Five water faucets for 300 families, man.

Fucking awful.

The most people know about South Africa comes from Lethal Weapon 2.


Amen dude. Watch this Red Ice Radio interview with a SA expat lady about just how bad it is. It left me wishing professor Xiang Chow much success in his super-sickel cell development program.

Blogger bob k. mando August 18, 2016 8:02 AM  

41. Aeoli Pera August 18, 2016 7:57 AM
I can't say this for sure, but I believe such radical changes are only possible if the genetic stock is already extant within the organism



you're saying you don't think we have markers for stupidity, consocial and dysgenic effects already extant in our genetic stock?

if so, i think the DSM would like to have a word with you.

Anonymous Sazerac August 18, 2016 8:03 AM  

I have been involved in training for Chinese and African staff. The training for the African staff had to be very simplistic compared to the Chinese staff.

Blogger Nate August 18, 2016 8:07 AM  

"Yes, Japan and China are both economic disasters, but they are still smart, homogeneous nations and they will bounce right back from the next economic crash. Most of the nations of the West are not, and therefore they will not be able to do so."

You take Japan and or China.


I'll take Russia.


China peaked 5 years ago.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 18, 2016 8:16 AM  

His Rx for educating 70 IQ people won't fly, because in the USA today it is mandatory to put such people (black, white, yellow, red, green, blue) in the same "college prep" classroom as your 100, 110, 120, 130, 140 and 150 IQ students.

Hell, the 70 IQ kid could be among the brighter bulbs in today's educational swamp. True story, kids with sub-60 IQ's are mainstreamed now. That's right, your above-average Border Collie could be in class being shown how to factor polynomials.
_____________________

China and Japan may well take over the world, but if they do, mankind will utterly stagnate. The burst of innovation these past two hundred years was an extreme outlier, due to the confluence of "white" and Ashkenazi people working under the rules of Western Civilization, which alone in human society is able to (occasionally) embrace the authority-toppling process of science.

Asian cultures are genetically predisposed to conformity and blind respect for authority. Their engineers are outstanding at reverse-engineering or refining the innovations of others, but they are, from what I'm told, utterly unable to carry through the process of innovation themselves. They are simply too deferential to "the boss," "the Big Man," or the guy who said "this is how this is done."

China had a (relatively) high tech civilization for literally thousands of years and never, not once, tripped over true science. It was century after century of sameness.

If the West falls apart and its (genetic) children scattered and diluted, mankind will still largely be living the same in 4000 years as he does today.

Blogger Sherwood family August 18, 2016 8:18 AM  

Russia has demographic problems too. They've got a massive number of Muslims from Central Asia who are outbreeding them. They've got a big problem with early deaths from acute alcohol poisoning and the country itself is too big to physically manage. They need to consolidate to a smaller territory, throw out the Muslims, and get busy having babies.

On the plus side the average Russian girl is less emasculated than most Western men. Russian men, if you can keep them sober, are tough SOBs who can get the job done in a clutch situation but go to pieces when the pressure is off.

Russians need suffering to be happy and to keep them innovating. Something like the Cold War is the best thing that can happen to them, especially if you get them away from stupid globalist ideologies like Communism.

So, if Putin can deal with the Muslims and not try to hold on to massive territories that Russia cannot effectively manage without sinking lots of rubles in useless endeavors, then they can probably dominate whatever is left of Europe when the dust clears after the collapse of the EU.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 18, 2016 8:22 AM  

If you want to see a future being run by East Asians, look at Japan, Inc.'s development of HD TV. (Hint: the standard that they wasted a lunar-sized amount of resources on never went to market because a US-based system, produced for a tiny fraction of the cost, ran rings around it.)

Toyota makes a great car, but without Brit, German and US engineers opening the path, Japan would still have Shoguns and its troops would still carry swords (only.)

Blogger VD August 18, 2016 8:28 AM  

Russia has demographic problems too. They've got a massive number of Muslims from Central Asia who are outbreeding them. They've got a big problem with early deaths from acute alcohol poisoning and the country itself is too big to physically manage. They need to consolidate to a smaller territory, throw out the Muslims, and get busy having babies.

You're about 10 years late to the party. What do you think they've been doing?

China and Japan may well take over the world, but if they do, mankind will utterly stagnate.

Yes, most likely.

The burst of innovation these past two hundred years was an extreme outlier, due to the confluence of "white" and Ashkenazi people working under the rules of Western Civilization, which alone in human society is able to (occasionally) embrace the authority-toppling process of science.

It wasn't the Ashkenazi that aided the burst of innovation. In fact, they're the party most responsible for bringing it to an end.

Blogger Dexter August 18, 2016 8:29 AM  

The first is education. Teach people the basics of how to think, how to use their brains - and do so in a way that is tailored to their current levels of intelligence.

We don't do this - we're not even TRYING to do this - in the USA itself. Alas.

providing basic infrastructure that is operable, and maintainable, and sustainable, by people in the IQ range we've discussed.

We better learn how to do this in the USA since we are importing huge numbers of low-IQ immigrants.

entrepreneur who put the whole idea together becomes a Big Man in the local economy - and is able to use his profits for other useful economic ideas. Moral of the story: find individuals with that sort of entrepreneurial drive, and help them.

And then the village elder or grandfather confiscates the profit ("you must share this with your family!") and the incentive to make profit is destroyed. Right?

Blogger dc.sunsets August 18, 2016 8:30 AM  

I plan for my descendants to be part of the aristocracy running a future "Singapore-style" enclave of people, living in North America; a society of outbred yet homogeneous people who are genetically traceable to England (and to some degree all of Europe inside the Hajnal Line) during the Middle Ages.

They will be the machine-builders, living in pastoral settings, robotics doing the drudge work and the dangerous jobs while men and women discuss how to refine their personal pursuit of happiness (fully understood.)

And if that's to happen, any asshole who starts agitating for immigrants' rights, open borders or genetic dilution of the homogeneous stock would be kicked IMMEDIATELY into the wilds outside the walls. Those inside the walls would, naturally, place bets on how long said asshole would survive.

The over-under would be hours, not days.

Blogger Sherwood family August 18, 2016 8:30 AM  

For a nation to be successful they've got to be hungry for it and pay their dues. The Chinese are. They have seen what they can do and are busy displacing the top dogs. In 1980 China was a backwater Third World country. In 1990 it was starting to make some waves. In 2000 it was well on track to running with the top dogs and by 2010 it was displacing them. 40 years without war and with markets that its low labor costs could exploit. Contrast that with the last 40 years of U.S. efforts. We basically gave away the kitchen sink to beat the Soviets and then, on winning, continued the same stupid model only we tried to incorporate everybody else in our feel-good empire. Should have de-militarized, shut down bases abroad, renegotiated trade deals, and minded our own business. In other words, we should have elected Pat Buchanan instead of Bill Clinton. Oh well.

OpenID paworldandtimes August 18, 2016 8:37 AM  

a future "Singapore-style" enclave of people, living in North America; a society of outbred yet homogeneous people who are genetically traceable to England...

A horrible scenario. It's spiritually crippling for us to sit at the top of a mud-pyramid. If a future-me can't venture out into the country and see a nothing but White faces at future equivalents of rural playgrounds and gas stations, then may an asteroid smash this failed planet.

PA

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 18, 2016 8:39 AM  

bob k. mando wrote:41. Aeoli Pera August 18, 2016 7:57 AM

I can't say this for sure, but I believe such radical changes are only possible if the genetic stock is already extant within the organism


you're saying you don't think we have markers for stupidity, consocial and dysgenic effects already extant in our genetic stock?

if so, i think the DSM would like to have a word with you.


You've got me all wrong, my curmudgeonly credentials are from the best schools and institutions. My point was more or less tangential to your case.

Blogger Chris Mallory August 18, 2016 8:40 AM  

FALPhil wrote:Japan's problem is that their birth rate is so low, they just might die out before they bounce back.



Why would they die out?

In 1935, there were 66 million Japs under the age of 64. In 2010, there were 97 million Japs under the age of 64.

Yes, their population is currently shrinking, but they have more than enough people to turn that around.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 18, 2016 8:43 AM  

It wasn't the Ashkenazi that aided the burst of innovation. In fact, they're the party most responsible for bringing it to an end.

I get confused on this. Were the big physicists/rocket-scientists of the early 20th century Ashkenazim or not?

My point is that I'm suspicious that even Jews see a big divide between "True Jews" and Jews who intermarry and dilute the stock. One conspiracy theory I find intriguing is that Rothschild hatched a plan to make the intermarrying half-breeds martyrs (in Germany, Poland, etc.) so that world opinion could be manipulated into supporting Zionism.

If this theory held any water at all (no way to know), then the occasional high-IQ person with some Ashkenazi blood might contribute to Western innovation even as the Full Blood Jews labor night and day to undermine the West, seeing it as their oppressor these past 2000 years.

To me, the appearance of a conspiracy to demoralize and hamstring the Anglosphere and Europe is consistent enough to believe that Israel's Jews want a powerful servant...which means turning him into a muscular eunuch and no more.

That, to me, is the genesis of Hollywood's, NRO's, and all the Jewish-dominated US institutions' full court press to make America a shade of its former self.

(Yes, a few puns intended.)

This is also why I think everyone with dual nationality should be 1) stripped of the right to vote in the USA and 2) examined for "patriotism," and if suspected of greater devotion to the other nation, booted out of the USA. This would have the salutary effect of kicking the most anti-American Jews to Israel, where they clearly belong. Israel for the Jews, especially those whose favorite activity is stabbing America in the back.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer August 18, 2016 8:44 AM  

I tried googling it, had zero luck What is mutu? Is that the practice of cutting off parts of albinos and eating them because they are "magic."

Blogger Sherwood family August 18, 2016 8:45 AM  

No, VD, Russia is only partly doing the things you pointed to.

They are trying to encourage the babies and that has had some limited success but it is barely enough to offset the deaths. Russia has positive population growth but that is at least in part because Putin is unfortunately not dealing effectively with the Islamic population inside Russia, which continues to grow and is a source of radicals going to ISIS in Syria. At present they are not an immediate threat but their percentage of the Russian population continues to increase.

The Russians are also not trying to consolidate territory. They are trying to extend their buffer zones into Crimea, Georgia, and elsewhere. They are working to incorporate Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, and Armenia back into the old system, not directly but via the Eurasian Economic Union which would give the Russians some economic benefits but will ultimately cost more money to keep in these countries in its orbit. The Chinese are moving in economically and it is causing difficulty for the Russians and costing them money they cannot afford right now.

They have made some strides in consolidating their military, a much needed change, and in trying to improve the economy. Putin used high oil prices to do this. But prices are down and it is going to be tough to strengthen the country when there is nothing to fill the void left by oil and gas.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 18, 2016 8:45 AM  

@58, you've got it all wrong. Japan's people aren't having enough babies, we're told, so the obvious fix is to import millions of Somalis.

Blogger U PC BRO? August 18, 2016 8:55 AM  

It's a pity Executive Outcomes doesn't exist anymore. An African solution to an African problem. The influx of millions of Han Chinese who can't find wives at home may raise the sub Saharan IQ somewhat.

Blogger JV Small August 18, 2016 8:56 AM  

@Voxday

Your comments remind me of something I've heard floating around for a while about a long term (Sino?)-Soviet plot to undermine the US.

It shared the typical communist planks, which is a sure fire recipe to destroy any nation, but with a twist. (Here is a link http://rense.com/general32/americ.htm)

I found myself about to dissect the list item by item, but that's not necessary.

What is interesting is that in the United States before LBJ's 'Great Society' there was increasing parity between Americans of all colors. That is, by sharing the values of hard work and the goals of the greater culture, blacks were achieving status as members of the middle class, had similar marriage rates and were approaching wage parity.

And then you examine the list and realize that a lot of the headwinds, which appear to be 'self-created', we face as a nation can be connected to that list. The DNC and GOP and their dualism and support of "free trade." The worthlessness of oaths to defend the Constitution and the United States from all enemies foreign and domestic. (Do we really expect an enemy of the United States like Obama to take such an oath seriously?)

Decisions by the courts undermining parental rights and neglecting the need of children to have both parents, permitting anyone to use any restroom they want, transforming the 1st Amendment to mean freedom from religion, undermining the other Amendments. The dumbing down of our education system; the attitudes of the press and other media outlets; degrading of culture and promotion of ugly art; support of homosexuality, promiscuity, and degeneracy as 'normal, natural and healthy'; the new 'pope' and atheism; attacks on the Constitution as 'outdated' and attempts to 'update' it; attacks on the founding fathers; discrediting of the family as an institution through attacks on men; and more can be explained by the list.

Which is kind of mind-numbing, especially since when I first saw the list it seemed like there was a much smaller subset of things that I would have considered as being completed. Now, much more of the list seems to have come to pass.

Seeing some of your arguments, I kind of agree and kind of disagree. I think there are some families in Africa that have not suffered from too much dysgenic breeding. Most of them have long since emigrated or turned corrupt, but their presence would permit ideas like Mr. Grants to work. Find the few intelligent people and show them that it is much more profitable to engage in honest business practices than dishonest ones. (Looking more at the middle than the top.)

I think it's hard to see the true difference between Africa and Europe without equal opportunity. Our own society has demonstrated that some African-Americans are just as capable, even as some subgroups have suffered from dysgenics.

In any case, I share Grant's belief that the best solution for Africa is to educate them to the greatest extent possible, but I agree that part of their problem is dysgenic. By educating them, at least some industrialization may be possible, even if it is only to the simplistic level of the late 19th century, it would still be a step up in some areas.

As far as the United States, I don't think our problem is that we are suffering from lower IQs, but that our education system has been redesigned to hinder education. A process which continues as demonstrated by No Child Left Behind and Common Core and the focus on achieving equality of outcome between rural, suburban and urban areas. Which I guess is where I was going with the mention of the list of supposed Soviet goals to undermine the U.S. (I haven't found conclusive proof or disproof.)


Blogger U PC BRO? August 18, 2016 8:58 AM  

If Japan's population gets too low and economic incentives don't work, I imagine they will simply force people to start fucking, whether they want to or not.

Anonymous BGKB August 18, 2016 9:00 AM  

Rather give them a hand-operated pump, one they can understand, and which they can repair themselves if it breaks down

Is he suggesting we use complicated diagonal drilling in hopes that they can keep an Archimedes screw going or just a well bucket?

There can be no resigned, shoulder-shrugging acceptance of 'shrinkage' without a major effort to minimize losses

Tell that to every retailer in die verse areas.

OT: Yea Ha Government give out cash to queer hillbillies. Talk about a hoe down http://www.gaypatriot.net/2016/08/17/stuff-like-this-makes-our-20-trillion-public-debt-totally-worthwhile/

" The U.S. Department of Agriculture is holding summits to promote the role of lesbian farmers as a part of its “Rural Pride” campaign...all-day summit will teach lesbian and transgender hillbillies how to get subsidies from the government like rural housing loans and “community facility grants.” Bullying will also be discussed"

Blogger Salt August 18, 2016 9:00 AM  

dc.sunsets wrote:China and Japan may well take over the world

They don't like each other very much. A few nukes and China will have it all.

Anonymous Cheddarman August 18, 2016 9:04 AM  

Nate,

You could form a Southron Oblast in Russia. Putin would love that, y'all could be more bad ass than the Cossacks.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 18, 2016 9:14 AM  

A few nukes and China will have it all.

GE nukes owned by Japan are doing it already.

Blogger VD August 18, 2016 9:22 AM  

As far as the United States, I don't think our problem is that we are suffering from lower IQs, but that our education system has been redesigned to hinder education.

Nearly everything you cited is an attempt to minimize genetic reality and to evade the inescapable. The USA is ALREADY suffering from the consequences of a lower average IQ, it's just that virtually no one realizes it yet.

Blogger bob k. mando August 18, 2016 9:30 AM  

65. U PC BRO? August 18, 2016 8:58 AM
If Japan's population gets too low and economic incentives don't work, I imagine they will simply force people to start fucking, whether they want to or not.



who knew tentacle rape was predictive programming for future Nip .gov policy?

OpenID paworldandtimes August 18, 2016 9:35 AM  

The USA is ALREADY suffering from the consequences of a lower average IQ, it's just that virtually no one realizes it yet.

Memory of quality fades. As you walk around an SWPL urban district today, you'll check out the one hot girl in ten slugs and then you'll be rang up by a toothy Eritrean cashier at Whole Foods. But if you time-traveled to 1985 you'd be struck by how good looking everyone is. Not just the women, but also (no homo) how many young, blond, relaxed shitlord-face men you see swaggering around. The female cashier at the grocery store will have been mind-blowingly more desirable than the 2016 yoga pants apex-bitch you checked out moments earlier.

It's similar with our perception in the decline of the average IQ, especially in the quality of support services. Yes, when you deal with White vendors or contractors and such, you're obviously still dealing with a 1985 gene pool. But -- it takes a bit of effort to secure a White American's services; I don't just go to the closest and shortest line at the grocery store, I look for one that has a White cashier and then make a line-length to thoroughput efficiency calculation before I pick where I go. But if you forego that effort, you'll accept the level of competence rendered that you'd never have accepted back in 1985.

PA

Anonymous srinivasaritis August 18, 2016 9:37 AM  

@59 "This would have the salutary effect of kicking the most anti-American Jews to Israel, where they clearly belong."

I'm sure the Israelis will be thrilled. Just because they get most unhappy when WE point it out, doesn't mean they are blind to the extreme danger of Jewish leftist radicalism. They make great efforts to keep it in check in their own land. Using the West as a dumping ground for their most dyscivilizational is one of the 'efforts'.

Anonymous BGKB August 18, 2016 9:45 AM  

What's more, gay men are molesting boys, so that the highest population of newly acquired HIV is in teenage boys...That includes white gay men too, by the way.

Groids are actually more at risk for new cases of aids than gays are. Weither that is from fellow blacks or (((Sandusky & Spainier))) I don't know. Some get AIDs on purpose so they can collect social security disability and lay about all day. AIDS ran $2-5K a month in meds alone before the ((())) bought a pill that sold for $13 each and raised its price to $700 each.

We build a charity campaign to fly as many of the 3.5 million white South Africans out of there, and we import them, starting with the poorest

Let no white man remain in Africa to be blamed for black failure until the Chinese have turned all the groids into dog food.

when a Chinese man tell the truth right in the target to an African.

He also said that they must have gotten their blow all their money habits from the Belgians

The burst of innovation these past two hundred years was an extreme outlier, due to the confluence of "white" and Ashkenazi

Ashkenazi haven't done anything new since Martin Luther wrote a book on all their scams except for steal other peoples ideas. High speed trading is the Rothschilds hiring falconers to kill others homing pigeons.

Anonymous kfg August 18, 2016 9:50 AM  

"If Japan's population gets too low and economic incentives don't work . . ."

If Japan's population gets low enough the economic incentives will present themselves.

Right now the biggest socio-economic crisis Japan faces is that a growing number of the the best of their population do nothing, because there is nothing for them to do.

Japan is an insular island nation poor in natural resources and there are truly too many rats in the cage.

Reduction in population due to lowered birthrates reduces populations to carrying capacity over generations, in a controlled manner.

Overpopulation if left unchecked eventually causes a catastrophic collapse of the population that cannot be reversed because of the speed at which it occurs.

Blogger Nate August 18, 2016 9:53 AM  

' The USA is ALREADY suffering from the consequences of a lower average IQ, it's just that virtually no one realizes it yet'

ok.

But what exactly would you expect to happen after importing 60 million aztecs?

Blogger Nate August 18, 2016 9:53 AM  

white americans aren't getting dumber in terms of IQ. The population is getting dumber because we're importing lots of dumb people.

Anonymous Roundtine August 18, 2016 9:56 AM  

He mentions mosquito nets. In some areas the natives re-purposed them for fishing and soon exterminated the fish.

Anonymous Roundtine August 18, 2016 9:57 AM  

NYTimes covered it: Meant to Keep Malaria Out, Mosquito Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

Anonymous Sazerac August 18, 2016 9:58 AM  

The risk in China in my opinion has historically never been the quality of stock but mentality of the management. They have some structural problems now but I think their current management should be able to get them through the next few decades.

I agree with Nate and think its wrong to underestimate Russia. I think the expansions are partly due to wanting to incorporate more Russian stock to fix the demographics. If they can create an economic boom in the Far East or even parts of Siberia this could lead to a population spurt and as someone else mentioned last week they are enacting policies to help that occur. I wouldn't be surprised if they will open up some opportunities in Russia to Western families of good quality and stock looking to escape imported diversity.

For example, Zeya, a tiny rural town in the Far East would seem much nicer and safer if I was a White British plumber living in Rotherham with a wife and a couple of young blond girls to watch out for. http://www.admzeya.ru/
Personally I'd probably go for Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, maybe set up a tourism operation or salmon farming to cater to the Chinese.
http://pkgo.ru/

Blogger JV Small August 18, 2016 10:02 AM  

VD wrote:As far as the United States, I don't think our problem is that we are suffering from lower IQs, but that our education system has been redesigned to hinder education.

Nearly everything you cited is an attempt to minimize genetic reality and to evade the inescapable. The USA is ALREADY suffering from the consequences of a lower average IQ, it's just that virtually no one realizes it yet.


Is what you're saying is global average IQ against all distinct ethnicities, not average IQ amongst the Caucasian groups?

Or are you also including the latter?

What role do you think urbanization has played in it?

Also interested in your comments on China. Do you really think they will be able to escape becoming old before they become rich, and thus failing to become the latter?

Blogger Nate August 18, 2016 10:04 AM  

malaria nets are retarded.

if you give a damn about malaria... you bring back DDT.

Blogger Nate August 18, 2016 10:06 AM  

in terms of world domination.. we should also be considering India.

Everything that china had going for it in 1970... India now has going for it.

Blogger 罗臻 August 18, 2016 10:12 AM  

Do you really think they will be able to escape becoming old before they become rich, and thus failing to become the latter?

Already happening: China's Pension Bust: Number of Localities in Deficit Doubles, Surpluses Quickly Drained

Blogger Jim Carroll August 18, 2016 10:18 AM  

While I agree with Peter's diagnosis, I don't agree with his prescription. Education will not change one single damn thing in Africa because it cannot. The intelligence gap between Europe and Africa is genetic and only several centuries of ruthless eugenics will raise the average intelligence of the latter continent.

His prescription presupposes the Flynn effect. This is obvious from:

He can be set tasks that grow progressively more complex and more difficult, but not at a level he can't master. His children will go further, and his children's children further still . . . but he won't.

I've yet to see where this has been refuted.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 18, 2016 10:21 AM  

The USA is ALREADY suffering from the consequences of a lower average IQ, it's just that virtually no one realizes it yet.

My 4th grade classroom teacher wife realizes it. It used to be she'd have a couple kids in her class reading at above an 8th grade level. Now she's ecstatic if a few are at 5th grade, and if the rest of the class can AT LEAST READ (at a 1st grade level.) We're talking about a span of 2005-2016, not since 1965.

But if you time-traveled to 1985 you'd be struck by how good looking everyone is. Not just the women, but also (no homo) how many young, blond, relaxed shitlord-face men you see swaggering around. The female cashier at the grocery store will have been mind-blowingly more desirable than the 2016 yoga pants apex-bitch you checked out moments earlier.

I grew up in DuPage Co (suburban Chicago.) In the 1960's I'd wager there was 0% black & 0% Mestizo in the county. ZERO. East Asians were likely <0.05%. Place ran like a top. Kids were safe anywhere and everywhere. Crime was all but nonexistent. Schools were good-to-great (for public institutions.)

But we're bad guys for thinking that was NICE? I just keep waiting for interest rates to rise, bond prices to fall and the skyscraper-sized dominoes to begin an epic fall.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling August 18, 2016 10:24 AM  

@59 dc.sunsets:

It wasn't the Ashkenazi that aided the burst of innovation. In fact, they're the party most responsible for bringing it to an end.

I get confused on this. Were the big physicists/rocket-scientists of the early 20th century Ashkenazim or not?


Our host is at best grossly ignorant of the history of first half or so of 20th Century science and engineering. Here are just the ones I know of from studying the histories of the development of quantum and nuclear physics, and add to that Einstein, who contributed to both and came up with what's still the best theory of gravity we have, and Theodore von Kármán, the "outstanding aerodynamic theoretician of the twentieth century" (Wikipedia, but see for example Bringing Aerodynamics to America, about how CalTech snared him and became preeminent in the field, which I can confirm independently for that period as an MIT alum), or Fritz Haber, who's Haber process for fixing atmospheric nitrogen ... well, given our host's opinion on Norman Borlaug (which was initially assigned to Africa, indicating he just doesn't know the field of scientific history), and how Haber enabled much of the intensity of WWI and WWII....

Quantum:

Albert Michelson, of Michelson–Morley fame.

Niels Bohr

Einstein (forget about Special Relativity and note his 1905 explanations of the photoelectic effect (critical in the development of quantum theory) and Brownian motion).

Max Born

Wolfgang Pauli

Nuclear:

Niels Bohr, again.

Lise Meitner and her nephew Otto Frisch

Hans Bethe

Eugene Wigner

Following that, some of the biggest are:

Oppenheimer, who besides the minor detail of atomic bombs, would have likely earned a Nobel if he'd lived long enough for his ahead of his time astrophysics.

Edward Teller

Isidor Rabi, who discovered nuclear magnetic resonance, best known to most in MRI form, but it's also critical in chemical research where they aren't afraid to use the word nuclear.

Murray Gell-Mann, Mr. Quark, perhaps better known to us for the form of amnesia named after him by Michael Crichton.

And we can close with Richard Feynman, "The greatest scientific mind since World War II".

And from my biology studies before I switched to chemistry, I can assure you Ashkenazim are very well represented in fundamental research, the stuff we're pretty sure is correct, although I might start with, say, Salvador Luria, one of my teachers, who was Italian Sephardi.

Blogger Josh August 18, 2016 10:24 AM  

if you give a damn about malaria... you bring back DDT.

DDT is bad because it saves African lives...

Blogger Jim Carroll August 18, 2016 10:25 AM  

Before someone jumps down my throat for the last comment, I'm currently reading this: http://www.cato-unbound.org/2007/11/08/linda-s-gottfredson/shattering-logic-explain-flynn-effect

Anonymous fop August 18, 2016 10:28 AM  

Japan is too weird to ever become a dominant world power.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 18, 2016 10:29 AM  

Everything that china had going for it in 1970... India now has going for it.

Then why is every bright Indian in the USA?

(Or are they just doing a higher-income version of the Mestizos, where they're here to strip-mine American wealth and wire it back home, kind of like putting Chinese manufacturing plants in KY, staffed by Chinese, owned by Chinese, selling their crap to Americans busy pawning their country and taking that wealth home to China?)

Oh. I answered my own question.

PS: The Fed (((owned))) monetary system in place since 1971/1980 has been the single most amazing tool to get Americans to pawn the country their ancestors won, is it not? A debt-based system that creates the illusion of borrowing=wealth creation, so that Americans are stupid enough to party til they drop with cash from the (((Pawn Shop.)))

Anonymous PM August 18, 2016 10:34 AM  

India has a lot of the same problems as Europe... cultural enrichment of muslims and a leftist elite that rules the university and media

Anonymous Broken Arrow August 18, 2016 10:35 AM  

Nate wrote:in terms of world domination.. we should also be considering India.

Everything that china had going for it in 1970... India now has going for it.


They have to clean up the institutionalized corruption first. It's prevalent at all stratas of society, and nearly ever government worker, military officer, and prominent businessman works off from a series of well known, accepted, bribes.

Need something done in the courts in an acceptable time frame? Pay the man. Need a visa? Pay the man.

I don't know enough about China to say if it was like that in 1970, but this level of corruption severely hampers advancement. India is currently trying to wire up 100 cities to be able to handle the infrastructure of a modern, connected society but the Indians I've talked to think it won't happen. The reason? The money is going to be funneled away into politicians pockets and nothing will work properly.

Anonymous 0007 August 18, 2016 10:36 AM  

Keep in mind that Mr. Grant was one of those white SA who supported the "African equality" movement in SA. Of course when it came to fruition he left. He apparently writes good fiction. Too bad the reality he wanted for SA sucks.

Blogger pyrrhus August 18, 2016 10:37 AM  

The Flynn effect has curiously failed to appear with respect to SAT scores in the last 50 years. Quite the opposite! The SAT is usually taken only by the best students in the US, but scores have steadily declined despite 1. the periodic dumbing down of both the math and verbal sections, and 2. The "re-norming" of the test in 1996, which simply added about 100 points to the average score....Furthermore, the effect seemed confined to the Raven test, and Flynn himself ascribed it to increased familiarity with testing...

Blogger dc.sunsets August 18, 2016 10:41 AM  

@89 Jim, if anything Godfriedson's column questions the entire premise.

General intelligence is "g." The Flynn Effect does not appear to reflect rising "g." There is thus no reason to expect the African's kids and grandkids to understand more than does he.

I remain very interested in IQ, "g" and their utility in understanding reality. The saying,"Life is an IQ test" is by far the most relevant point of this. Discussing the Flynn Effect is like arguing about the ink on the map, or whether the Mercator Projection is useful.


Africa is the way it is today because it is inhabited by people who didn't endure the brutal culling of natural selection found inside the Hajnal Line or in East Asia. Per our host's comment, that kind of culling wasn't in Africa 200, 2000 or 20,000 years ago. It won't be there 200, 2000 or 20,000 years from now (even Ice Ages didn't affect things much in Africa, or we'd see different conditions now.) Absent climatic conditions not seen in the last 50,000 years, the natural world appears happy with what is selected among reproducing humans in Sub-Saharan Africa. Guns, Germs and Steel haven't made much of a difference from what I can see.

Blogger ZhukovG August 18, 2016 10:41 AM  

Russia will be fine. They currently have a slowly increasing birth rate and a slowly falling death rate. The two demographic lines roughly overlap now and Russia is showing a slight increase in natural population.

Russia is also 81% ethnic Russian. The next biggest ethnic group is Tatar at less than 4%. There is no Moslem group that poses even a remote existential threat to Russia. Partially because Russia reacts rather forcefully towards threats. Also many of the Moslem, tribes is the most accurate descriptor, tend to feud with one another more than anyone else.

The only real threat to Russia right now is probably a Hillary Clinton presidency, and that will pretty much suck for everyone.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling August 18, 2016 10:44 AM  

@71. bob k. mando:

@65. U PC BRO?
If Japan's population gets too low and economic incentives don't work, I imagine they will simply force people to start fucking, whether they want to or not.

who knew tentacle rape was predictive programming for future Nip .gov policy?


Heh, but first you'll have to do something about their views on abortion and access to it; as I recall, in something I've not been able to find since, they don't view a human as having a soul until they're 3 days old, which had obvious psychological benefits in the bad old days when there was so much very early infant mortality.

See the Wikipedia picture of this, note that officially it's at least 1/4 of live births, and is significantly under-reported for doctors to avoid paying income taxes (first I've heard of that, but their medical system has a number of gross distortions of that sort, for example, doctors dispense drugs and it's an important part of their income, they also generate more visits than needed for that purpose), as well as the usual privacy reasons.

Blogger ZhukovG August 18, 2016 10:49 AM  

But more to topic, the only thing that I can see helping Africa is for Europe to embrace, first Nationalism and then Colonial Imperialism.

Who knows, if the US continues on its current course, the United Kingdom may get her New England colonies back.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 18, 2016 10:49 AM  

China, India, and every other Nation/race that existed outside (my favorite) the Hajnal Line cannot do what the West can do simply because they all have high nepotism, low trust societies.

The high trust civilization developed in Europe and England was nurtured by unique circumstances (search for HBD chick's work on this.) Everywhere else in the world, the first thing a new manager or government bureaucrat does is hire his relatives.

It's not rocket science to see that a place where "business" is done this way will stagnate and lag a place where the norm is to hire the best candidate.

Affirmative Action could be interpreted as a means for genetically-predisposed low-trust people (this includes Ashkenazim, blacks, Chinese, Koreans, Mestizos, etc.) to institute a nepotistic system writ large.

Meritocracies are for high-trust civilizations only. They exist, I suspect, only as veneers everywhere else.

Blogger Nate August 18, 2016 10:52 AM  

"They have to clean up the institutionalized corruption first. It's prevalent at all stratas of society, and nearly ever government worker, military officer, and prominent businessman works off from a series of well known, accepted, bribes. "

No they don't.

The idea that corruption is a negative force / obstacle is a western mindset myth.

The eastern world has always employed such things and they work just fine. That doesn't mean the west should adopt it... but it does mean the east doesn't have to ditchit.

Blogger Nate August 18, 2016 10:53 AM  

"Then why is every bright Indian in the USA? "

They aren't.

Not even close.

Blogger L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright August 18, 2016 10:56 AM  

Here in America, some of the brightest, sharpest people I have ever met have been Africans. I remember when I was working for Britannica. The guys from Africa were such hard workers. They were really on top of everything. I was very impressed with them.

And this shows the problem with making plans based on genetics. It may be true that some people have genetics that limit them to a 70 IQ.

BUT we don't know ahead of time who will fall into this category and who will not.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling August 18, 2016 10:58 AM  

@100 dc.sunsets:

Doesn't Japan have a (relatively) high trust society? Which helps explain a lot of there success?

My favorite US example of the opposite is how An Wang made sure Wang Laboratories would die an early death, by first making his son head of R&D (I had a friend in it at the time and what he told us made it clear they were doomed) and then the whole company.

Expat Chinese companies are supposed to be pretty infamous for the limits this imposes on their size and what they can do, because they just can't sufficiently trust non-family talent. Whereas while the Japanese do pretty severe vetting, they can do that.

Blogger S1AL August 18, 2016 10:59 AM  

"But what exactly would you expect to happen after importing 60 million aztecs?"

Come on, Nate, you can't expect VD to bash his cousins ;).

I also disagree with Vox's assessment of the white IQ in the U.S., though for somewhat different reasons. Specifically, having children (and a sizable number of them) is coming back into vogue with the high-IQ middle class types, especially Christians.

Blogger Quadko August 18, 2016 11:00 AM  

• The mercenary option would make good thoughtful sci-fi, either as example or warning. What would a modern Alexander do? Pick a weak and violent people - Africa, Middle East, or southeast Asia, perhaps, and build a kingdom.

• Education can optimize the IQ it's been given toward goals. Sadly, the west optimized general education toward compliant factory workers, and now toward politically left media consumers and propaganda followers. There's little benefit to society of having a high IQ level if that's what's being taught. And even with lower IQs, more can be done than is.

Anonymous kfg August 18, 2016 11:04 AM  

"Japan is too weird to ever become a dominant world power."

The conversation is dominated by the economic level, not the social. A small, socially cohesive group can punch way above their weight class in the field of money.

See, ooooooooh, I don't know - the Ashkenazi.

On the flip side, however, the US has become too weird to remain a dominant world power.

Blogger Dexter August 18, 2016 11:06 AM  

"Japan is too weird to ever become a dominant world power."


Yeah because tranny bathrooms / gay marriage women in the military / kill all your unborn babies is not weird at all.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling August 18, 2016 11:10 AM  

Added comment to @104: but the Japanese vetting/respect your elders system makes sure a tremendous amount of talented man-hours are wasted in people's highest output years. It's notable how very few of their Nobelists, especially after WWII, did their work in Japan, most have to self-exile.

In the area of software, Ruby is about the only significant contribution they've made (and note the language itself is still not SJW converged thanks to the non-vulnerable Japanese author, although the community and especially the Rails one that put it on the map...).

One other comment: when Toyota was forced to release their car source code in the accelerator mess, it turned out to be a total nightmare, so bad it was impossible to determine if it was even vaguely correct. Their much vaunted "you bet your life" software methods, when put to the test, absolutely and utterly failed, whatever the actual cause of those accidents were. Every one of their safety cultures that I know about is awful, and turning off all their nuclear power plants was the correct decision.

(On the other hand, hardware companies of all sorts are pretty much never known for good software, areo/astro being the notable exception for the obvious reasons.)

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 18, 2016 11:11 AM  

The USA is ALREADY suffering from the consequences of a lower average IQ, it's just that virtually no one realizes it yet.

Exhibit A: The Washington, DC metro system. Almost entirely a patronage system for blacks, with deliberate anti-white bias from top to bottom. Practically zero maintenance. Discussions of how to fix include "shut down for a month". A micro version of much larger systems.

Nobody can figure out what to do, because nobody wants to be the first to publicly Notice why such a fine mass transit system is circling the drain.

Blogger Dexter August 18, 2016 11:12 AM  

Everywhere else in the world, the first thing a new manager or government bureaucrat does is hire his relatives.

It's not rocket science to see that a place where "business" is done this way will stagnate and lag a place where the norm is to hire the best candidate.


Read up on how business was done in merchant empires during sailing ship days. Takes months to communicate between the home nation and the colonies. Guys on each end needed to have enormous trust in each other because each could break the company with bad decisions. Often as not these were family firms (or in the Scots case, clan-based firms).

Blogger VD August 18, 2016 11:15 AM  

And this shows the problem with making plans based on genetics. It may be true that some people have genetics that limit them to a 70 IQ.

That isn't indicative of a problem, it's indicative of a statistical bell curve. Why do you want to rob Africans of their best and brightest? Isn't that the worst, most racist thing you could do to Africa?

Anonymous Broken Arrow August 18, 2016 11:16 AM  

Nate,

If the corruption is so bad you can't get basic utilities in major cities, it is most definitely a problem. Many cities in India do not have water pressure or electricity the entire day. Try running a data center like that.

Also, they are losing some of the best and brightest to the US which is why they are so interested in the Smart Cities idea. Granted, many more remain, but it is an issue.

Blogger Austin Ballast August 18, 2016 11:17 AM  

dc.sunsets,

I worked with several Indians (dot, not feather) in the late 1990s who had the exact plan of making enough money in the US to go back home and live like a king.

They were somewhat active day traders as well, during the work day. It wouldn't surprise me if the "return home later" idea was widespread.

Anonymous Joe Blowe August 18, 2016 11:18 AM  

It's pointless giving them a complex engine-powered pump to bring up water from a well if they aren't capable of maintaining it. Rather give them a hand-operated pump, one they can understand, and which they can repair themselves if it breaks down.

It doesn't matter what equipment is given to them. If its metal it will be stolen and sold for scrap. They will then fill the hole with garbage or the water will be contaminated by waste runoff because they are too stupid and lazy to build trench or pit latrines. A hundred years ago rural Americans did not have indoor plumbing and were still thousands of years more advanced and civilized than these Stone Age rejects.

This is my solution for Africa: nuke it from orbit, its the only way to be sure.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 18, 2016 11:19 AM  

dc.sunsets
His Rx for educating 70 IQ people won't fly, because in the USA today

Grant is discussing how to educate black Africans. The bizarro tabula rasa fetish of the US educationist establishment is irrelevant. Teaching the borderline retarded how to do basic things is tedious but not complicated. Maybe it's how Feudalism used to work?

Rather give them a hand-operated pump, one they can understand, and which they can repair themselves if it breaks down

BGKB
Is he suggesting we use complicated diagonal drilling in hopes that they can keep an Archimedes screw going or just a well bucket?

Probably neither, more likely simple hand pumps such as were common in the 19th and early 20th century. The flaps don't have to be rubber, leather works almost as well. A hand pump water well can be drilled with a tripod pile-driver and a team of men to pull /release the rope all day.

Blogger VD August 18, 2016 11:21 AM  

Our host is at best grossly ignorant of the history of first half or so of 20th Century science and engineering.

Not at all. You simply failed to understand that the first half of the 20th century was the end of the burst of innovation in the West. The Ashnekazim joined at the end, but they'd already started planting the seeds of its destruction by then.

White Christians created science and modern technology. Neither Ashnekazim nor Chinese, for all their higher-than-average intelligence, managed to do that.

To credit Ashnekazim with Western innovation isn't much better than crediting it to the Japanese because they are more advanced in robotics now. It's a ridiculous concept.

Blogger VD August 18, 2016 11:23 AM  

I also disagree with Vox's assessment of the white IQ in the U.S., though for somewhat different reasons. Specifically, having children (and a sizable number of them) is coming back into vogue with the high-IQ middle class types, especially Christians.

You're wrong. You sound like the NY Times talking about trends. Most of my high-IQ social acquaintances in the States have 4+ kids too. That doesn't make it the statistical norm among the top quintile of the population.

Blogger Nate August 18, 2016 11:28 AM  

I try to look for the people who are about to have the next burst of innovation.

Historically its a people that have come out of no where.

That's why I look at India right now.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 18, 2016 11:28 AM  

@110 Patronage? Affirmative Action, methinks, same as the DC police department (that blew the Chandra Levy murder investigation, according to VDare, letting another illegal get away with murder.) If US blacks are on average 4/5th African, any system run by them will be..........4/5ths African, on average. There aren't any successful subway train systems in Africa, are there?

Anecdotally, I rarely see smart parents have large families (>3 kids.) It's quite common to see women willing to have 4+ kids end up with 4+ different surnames, none hers. I'm suspicious that neither she nor any of her sperm donors has an IQ >90. I'm talking "white" people.

Once again, I'm going from my wife's 4th grade classes. Small sample, and the area in which we live may or may not be representative of "America."

Blogger dc.sunsets August 18, 2016 11:33 AM  

I try to look for the people who are about to have the next burst of innovation.
Historically its a people that have come out of no where.
That's why I look at India right now.


You keep looking. I've met my share of Indians and don't expect much more than insularity, arrogance and nepotism. Just more cogs in the wheel, especially if they can't come to the USA's system to get out from under the corruption. (By this, I mean that the USA's system is turning too corrupt.)

Blogger BCD August 18, 2016 11:41 AM  

@Nate

India has a lot of problems that China never did. For one, its average IQ hovers above 80. While it has a subset of its population that's extremely bright, that is because of yet another problem: its extreme diversity. It is completely divided by caste, ethnic group, and language; India itself never existed as a state until the British came along.

Yet another problem is its population explosion. Large parts of the country are literally running out of water, which is not the sort of resource a modern economy can easily provide from abroad, so this problem will only get worse. With a much smaller geographical area than China and already strained resources, it will have to take drastic action soon or suffer catastrophe.

There are some mitigating factors, however. The fact that English is widely spoken by the educated class and is an official language allows the country to be more united than it otherwise would be. It is also still respectable, and expected, for the upper classes to have large families, which mitigates the overall dysgenic trend.

I agree that India is a country to watch, but I'm skeptical they will be a world-dominating power in the next century.

Blogger BCD August 18, 2016 11:48 AM  

@35 This is the century of genetic science. Last century was physics. China's government is the first that appears to have realized this.

And of genetic warfare. As much as I dislike the generation scheme of warfare, I'd argue the logical progression to a 5th generation is warfare directed against enemy population bases.

Blogger S1AL August 18, 2016 11:49 AM  

"You're wrong. You sound like the NY Times talking about trends. Most of my high-IQ social acquaintances in the States have 4+ kids too. That doesn't make it the statistical norm among the top quintile of the population."

Yeah, but the white lower class has also taken up heavy use of contraceptives in a lot of areas (not all, but many). You've noted elsewhere that total birth rates are down, but that means that any group that's up will have a disproportionate effect.

This is a relatively recent development, and is mostly late X and early Millennial families, which means it won't show up in the data for another 5-10 years as that group of people expands. And the IQ trends won't show up for another 15-20.

And this is specifically white Americans.

Anonymous Lasker August 18, 2016 11:49 AM  


I try to look for the people who are about to have the next burst of innovation.
Historically its a people that have come out of no where.
That's why I look at India right now.


I agree. I think they are probably only a couple decades away from discovering a way to make bread that doesn't involve kneading it on the floor with their dirty feet.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 18, 2016 11:54 AM  

@120 dc.sunsets
@110 Patronage? Affirmative Action, methinks,

Affirmative Action that has led to a tribalistic system. Apparently to work in DC Metro the first step is (a) be black, the next step is (b) know someone or better still have a relative who already works there.

If US blacks are on average 4/5th African, any system run by them will be..........4/5ths African, on average. There aren't any successful subway train systems in Africa, are there?

Are you missing the point? VD observed the US is already suffering from lowered mean IQ, I point to the DC Metro as one obvious example. I am certain others exist.

The US has a lot of systems such as electrical generation / distribution that require people with IQ above the mean to keep working. Decline in mean IQ implies a decline in reliability of those systems.

Or if you still doubt, go to any retail establishment and watch the checkout lines. Same diff at the micro level.

Blogger Nate August 18, 2016 11:57 AM  

"India has a lot of problems that China never did. For one, its average IQ hovers above 80"

The indian caste system minimizes this issue.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling August 18, 2016 11:59 AM  

@117 VD:

Our host is at best grossly ignorant of the history of first half or so of 20th Century science and engineering.

Not at all. You simply failed to understand that the first half of the 20th century was the end of the burst of innovation in the West. The Ashnekazim joined at the end, but they'd already started planting the seeds of its destruction by then.


No, full stop no, you're completely ignoring that the biggest advances, perhaps ever, in biology and medicine are centered in the 2nd half (elucidating DNA was a key, of course). Chemisty hasn't stopped moving forward, for example check the work of one of my other teachers, Karl Sharpless. It was very clear when he told us about his then big thing that he was absolutely, positively going to get a Nobel if he lived long enough.

That physics has been relatively unproductive, at least compared to the drama of the first half, may say more about the universe than us.

And I can't believe you're saying the above when the entire practical field of semiconductors, except for the crystal detector, started in 1947 with the inital reduction to practice of the transistor, first conceived of in 1926. We wouldn't be having this conversation without all that if it had not enabled ever cheaper until a few years ago computers. No innovation from "computer science"? No Ashnekazim in that field? Joel Moses was a figment of my imagination? As well as the Lisp family of languages, my favorites, and pioneering so much? Are you even aware we're using Von Neumann architecture computers???

But ignoring all those minor details I'll have to check up on Ashkenazim in the sciences prior to the 20th Century; I did notice Hertz was Jewish while double checking the 20th Century figures I knew of.

White Christians created science and modern technology. Neither Ashnekazim nor Chinese, for all their higher-than-average intelligence, managed to do that.

Indeed true. And you're right about the Ashkenazim role in destroying it, or so I gather from looking at and skimming a bit of The Culture of Critique before I decided to read the two preceeding books first.

To credit Ashnekazim with Western innovation isn't much better than crediting it to the Japanese because they are more advanced in robotics now. It's a ridiculous concept.

To deny their role in it isn't much better, and, frankly, as someone who intensively studied science from 1st grade (back when it was still cool) to 12th, and then went to MIT, most every time you speak on the subject you demonstrate that not only do you not know very much about it, you don't know that you don't know. You've got a few things right, like how little of what's published we can believe, but I'm pretty sure you're more wrong than you are right.

Blogger Nate August 18, 2016 12:00 PM  

'I agree. I think they are probably only a couple decades away from discovering a way to make bread that doesn't involve kneading it on the floor with their dirty feet.'

pssst

It is almost a statistical certainty that your next MRI will be read by an Indian.

Blogger Nate August 18, 2016 12:01 PM  

"You keep looking. I've met my share of Indians and don't expect much more than insularity, arrogance and nepotism. Just more cogs in the wheel, especially if they can't come to the USA's system to get out from under the corruption. (By this, I mean that the USA's system is turning too corrupt.)"

Reminds me of the new yorker in 2000... "No way dubya won that election. I didn't know a single person who voted for him."

Blogger BCD August 18, 2016 12:04 PM  

The indian caste system minimizes this issue.

The caste system makes this issue WORSE. Unless the Brahmin class is willing to commit genocide on 80% of their fellow citizens, they're stuck with a large middle that is not the moderately-competent type that can keep a technologically-advanced civilization running. And because of caste-resentment, they can't even rely on these people's loyalty.

Anonymous Lasker August 18, 2016 12:29 PM  

It is almost a statistical certainty that your next MRI will be read by an Indian.

Fish can also be taught to recognize patterns.

Blogger Jim Carroll August 18, 2016 12:38 PM  

@95 pyrrhus, Well, this is the first thing that comes up when you google "flynn effect sat scores" : http://www.businessinsider.com/sat-scores-are-getting-higher-2012-4 ... it suggests you're wrong. Other things on the list of hits say the reverse.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling August 18, 2016 12:44 PM  

@132 Lasker:

It is almost a statistical certainty that your next MRI will be read by an Indian.

Fish can also be taught to recognize patterns.


I would take more comfort in that if cheating wasn't so pervasive in their culture(s).

I was going to add something about arrogance, but a degree of arrogance is required, for you will make mistakes that will cripple or kill people, and you've got to be able to live with yourself after that.

Ah, to the extent they just don't give a damn about people below their caste, or in their's, outside of their endogamous clan or whatever, we're back to the problem that getting caught and shamed is the biggest moral crime....

Blogger VD August 18, 2016 12:47 PM  

To deny their role in it isn't much better, and, frankly, as someone who intensively studied science from 1st grade (back when it was still cool) to 12th, and then went to MIT, most every time you speak on the subject you demonstrate that not only do you not know very much about it, you don't know that you don't know. You've got a few things right, like how little of what's published we can believe, but I'm pretty sure you're more wrong than you are right.

That's nice. You're still completely wrong. You can preen and posture about how you sat through lectures at MIT all you like, but you quite clearly can't even handle basic logic. You're far from the first person to be "pretty sure" I'm more wrong than I am right, only to eventually learn otherwise.

The Ashkenazim are not responsible for the West's culture of innovation. They merit absolutely zero credit for it. The fact that a few of them got on board the innovation train towards the end of the line, like Einstein taking credit for that Italian physicist's ideas, is irrelevant. They only merit credit for helping lead the way in destroying it.

I am curious, though. Considering how there are innovators of every race, why did you select a subset of Jews? Are you Jewish?

Blogger Dexter August 18, 2016 1:01 PM  

It is almost a statistical certainty that your next MRI will be read by an Indian.

It is more certain that your MRI will soon be read by software. Until then, no need to import any Punjabis to do the job.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 18, 2016 1:06 PM  

Not exactly OT
Zika may affect adult brains specifically in learning / memory areas.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling August 18, 2016 1:22 PM  

@135 VD:

To deny their role in it isn't much better, and, frankly, as someone who intensively studied science from 1st grade (back when it was still cool) to 12th, and then went to MIT, most every time you speak on the subject you demonstrate that not only do you not know very much about it, you don't know that you don't know. You've got a few things right, like how little of what's published we can believe, but I'm pretty sure you're more wrong than you are right.

That's nice. You're still completely wrong. You can preen and posture about how you sat through lectures at MIT all you like....


The fact that I got into it says much more, I think. That I actually got something out of my college education, well, who can say?

but you quite clearly can't even handle basic logic. You're far from the first person to be "pretty sure" I'm more wrong than I am right, only to eventually learn otherwise.

Ah, no, you've got that wrong. I find it particularly difficult to analyze the irrational, and that's what your stance towards Science is. Plus it's just not worth my time to do so (to what end?), and delicately balance "right" and "wrong", so I just go with my intuition of the how much of each. And if not "more wrong than right", then close enough to not matter.

The Ashkenazim are not responsible for the West's culture of innovation.

Yes.

They merit absolutely zero credit for it.

Very likely; what I'm reading in A People That Shall Dwell Alone would make it astonishingly unlikely. And I can't help but note that the Ashkenazim who did contribute who we know something about are obviously extreme outliers, although that's going to be true in general. No "average college faculty" IQ type is going to discover any of this.

Continued in next posting due to length.

Anonymous fop August 18, 2016 1:23 PM  

Not exactly OT
Zika may affect adult brains specifically in learning / memory areas.


And so the idiocracy begins...

Blogger clk August 18, 2016 1:33 PM  

This is a fascinating thread... on the various subjects of genetics, race, IQ etc -- is there a modern definitive text ?

Anonymous Spassky August 18, 2016 1:42 PM  

This is a fascinating thread... on the various subjects of genetics, race, IQ etc -- is there a modern definitive text ?

stormfront.com?

Anonymous That Would Be Telling August 18, 2016 1:43 PM  

@138 continued:

The fact that a few of them got on board the innovation train towards the end of the line, like Einstein taking credit for that Italian physicist's ideas, is irrelevant.

Your, plural, hard-on for Einstein and Special Relativity is telling. As I've related at length before, evidently to absolutely no avail, if you strip Special Relativity away from Einstein's accomplishments, he'd still rate as one of the top scientists of the 20th Century, and when we include "General Relativity" (really, his theory of gravity), of all time. He just wouldn't have gotten lionized as people used it as a excuse for moral relativity, which he claimed horrified him.

Again, you know not, and you know not that you know not. And for a small slice of people on your side, you know, some of the sorts who help keep civilization going, I think that might matter (the I Fucking Love Science types are a total loss with no insurance).

They only merit credit for helping lead the way in destroying it.

In the balance, mostly true. But, again, there were too many key insights from Ashkenazim in this critical period for, for example, WWII to turn out like it did. And if you've read enough pre-Hiroshima nuclear technology and bomb SF, you'll know there are many worse ways this technology could have been introduced to the world...

And if we'd actually had to execute Operation Downfall, well, the post-WWII era would have been very different. Japan would have been truly trashed, we would have lost many many more men, we would have to live with the guilt of killing tens of millions of them, probably mostly with WMDs, it would have been a very bad thing (no anime! Hey, it's on balance more moral than what Hollywood puts out). For example, Operation Coronet, the invasion of the Kantou Plane (Tokyo and beyond), just wasn't going to happen as planned because of weather that would have impacted Operation Olympic, the invasion of the southern island of Kyuushuu, and that then set the parameters of Coronet. Interesting bit of trivia: only one project had a higher priority than Manhattan: the building of a super-Mulberry for Coronet.

I am curious, though. Considering how there are innovators of every race, why did you select a subset of Jews? Are you Jewish?

Because Ashkenazim are the topic of discussion, one of the few major topics of my current study (Kevin B. MacDonald's trilogy, almost finished with the first), and I certainly didn't have the time to catalogue all the figures in these areas of science and their background and discuss percentages and so on.

Heh, I'm so far from being a Jew ... there was exactly one who was willing to say he was one in my high school, and he refused to say anything about what it was about. My introduction to them as such started when I started traveling to the East Coast for higher education pre-MIT, and the impression they made wasn't exactly overall favorable, shall we say, and none stayed my best friends, let alone are today. Although that might have happened with a couple of Israelis if we'd kept in touch.

On the other hand, a number who I met or knew more well did seriously impress me with their intelligence and worthwhile intellectual accomplishments, like the previously mentioned Lisp figures. They run a spectrum, but as many have noticed, and MacDonald details, are fatally dyscivic for there host cultures.

Blogger VD August 18, 2016 2:04 PM  

The fact that I got into it says much more, I think.

Not to me.

Ah, no, you've got that wrong. I find it particularly difficult to analyze the irrational, and that's what your stance towards Science is.

You just demonstrated that I got it right. There is absolutely nothing irrational about my attitude towards science, which is why there are more than a few actual scientists here, as opposed to MIT dweebs who think their bachelors degrees merit shock and awe.

Because Ashkenazim are the topic of discussion

They are not. I suggest you re-read the post.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling August 18, 2016 2:23 PM  

@143 VD:

The fact that I got into [MIT] says much more, I think.

Not to me.


And there you have it, people, why dyscivic people, who don't particularly include our host, but who fundamentally don't respect the STEM people who've made our world, will continue to drive us off various cliffs. Such as the total train wreck of [redacted] as of [redacted, since you just might eventually succeed and it's not my style to throw shit at people who are at least trying to do the right thing, however incompetently].

Something MIT thoroughly laments, but has no answer for (well, besides wasting so many resources on the now very large ~45% fraction of women undergraduates...).

Ah, no, you've got that wrong. I find it particularly difficult to analyze the irrational, and that's what your stance towards Science is.

You just demonstrated that I got it right. There is absolutely nothing irrational about my attitude towards science, which is why there are more than a few actual scientists here, as opposed to MIT dweebs who think their bachelors degrees....


There you go again! You keep making so many conjectures about me, and keep getting all of them wrong. I never said I graduated, because [redacted because it would seriously facilitate doxing me], let's just say it wasn't academic.

merit shock and awe.

People able to do the calculus beyond the AP BC sequence and who learned calculus based mechanics and E&M don't earn the slightest bit of respect from you?

See again above meta comment. Or your many failures in the world of high tech....

(Let me just remind you again that I'm another 3SD+ Sigma from Flyover Country, our ability to defeat the other in a battle of wits is strictly limited.)

Because Ashkenazim are the topic of discussion

They are not. I suggest you re-read the post.


Now this bit of pedantry—sub-topic, OK?—really causes me to question if you're arguing in good faith.

Blogger Stephen St. Onge August 18, 2016 2:45 PM  

        It's odd that everyone seems to overlook the obvious with reference to IQ.

        The obvious is that we will soon have techniques for cheap sequencing of individual genomes.  Once that occurs, it will be simple to isolate the genetic component of IQ.  Once isolated, genetic engineering will become practical, and average intelligence will be raised much more quickly than the centuries it would take by pure selective breeding.

        But genetic engineering raises its own problems.  Go read or reread Robert A. Heinlein's Beyond This Horizon for some idea of what's coming.

Anonymous Fisher August 18, 2016 2:51 PM  

it will be simple to isolate the genetic component of IQ.

You assume too readily that there exists a discrete genetic component of IQ.

Anonymous Soylent_Green August 18, 2016 3:02 PM  

.54 DC sunsets.

Do you have any particular state or territory in mind?

I find your idea intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Anonymous fop August 18, 2016 3:08 PM  

...dyscivic people...who fundamentally don't respect the STEM people who've made our world

Wouldn't it be hilarious if some genius STEM dudes genetically engineered a mosquito that carried a virus that made humans stupider?

Oh wait...

Anonymous That Would Be Telling August 18, 2016 3:20 PM  

@148 fop:

...dyscivic people...who fundamentally don't respect the STEM people who've made our world

Wouldn't it be hilarious if some genius STEM dudes genetically engineered a mosquito that carried a virus that made humans stupider?

Oh wait...


And then convince people from every country in the the world to party at the ground zero of the major release of it....

Indeed, we've been worrying about this sort of thing, but usually in the context of outright genocide. Fortunately the intersection of people with those skills and those with such misanthropy seems to be null, but who knows, one day....

Blogger James Dixon August 18, 2016 3:24 PM  

> The few books I have read on demographics have pointed out that once a population group drops below a certain birth rate, historically, it rarely recovers.

We've never had population bases this large before. It's the total population base that matters more than the current birth rate.

> If Japan's population gets too low and economic incentives don't work, I imagine they will simply force people to start fucking, whether they want to or not.

From what I know of the Japanese, they'll be making both male and female sexbots within 25 years. It'll be fairly simple to make the female ones collect the sperm and transfer them to the male ones for distribution.

> if you give a damn about malaria... you bring back DDT.

Absolutely. Of course from what I've read it seems to be fairly easy to make.

> I don't know enough about China to say if it was like that in 1970...

From everything I've heard, China is still like that now. As Nate points out, that's not a problem.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 18, 2016 3:29 PM  

@147 Soylent_Green. Darn! I was going to subscribe to your newsletter! Now what?

@154 Once that occurs, it will be simple to isolate the genetic component of IQ Not so fast, Hoss. Intelligence is a polygenic trait, subject to a cacophony of confounders. It may be possible in a few years to make a good estimate of a person's IQ from a blood test. The notion of manipulating that, however, I believe will remain the province of SF for much longer than you imagine. We're not talking about swapping out spark plugs. Embryo selection for in vito procedures, is, however, right around the corner. Two totally different things.

@126 Potaytoe, potahtoe. People are getting dumber. Smart-fraction theory predicts "shit be fucked up and shit." I'm returning to my @54 so if you're game....?

Oh, and I seriously apologize for bringing up the Ashkenazim with regards to Western innovation. I didn't see that coming.

Anonymous fop August 18, 2016 3:34 PM  

Fortunately the intersection of people with those skills and those with such misanthropy seems to be null, but who knows, one day....

It's not the misanthropic mad scientist type I'd be worried about. It's the wealthy philanthropist who simply can't wait to "bless" the world with his incredible idea.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 18, 2016 3:35 PM  

@56 You described the land of my youth. If you think that was spiritually crippling and sitting atop a mud pyramid, you are either half my age or studied history from the books found in California schools today.

While on vacation in WY a few weeks ago there was a Thai restaurant everywhere you looked. I like Thai food, but this melting pot crap is out of hand. I doubt anyone but Thai people need Thai restaurants this thick.

Blogger Cloudswrest August 18, 2016 3:46 PM  

"Singapore that can serve as the core of a new high-IQ civilization."

Singapore is an IQ shredder. http://www.xenosystems.net/iq-shredders/

Anonymous kfg August 18, 2016 3:52 PM  

@150: "We've never had population bases this large before."

We've never had robotics like this either.

" . . .the Japanese, they'll be making both male and female sexbots within 25 years."

Q.E.D.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling August 18, 2016 4:23 PM  

@154 Cloudswrest:

Singapore is an IQ shredder. http://www.xenosystems.net/iq-shredders/

That would seem to depend on who's statistics you believe. According to Wikipedia, according to the World Bank and the Population Reference Bureau, it's at a more expected 1.2 or 1.3. Only the CIA World Factbook, the cited source, puts it in the range cited in posting, at 0.81 as of 2015.

Blogger SirHamster August 18, 2016 4:39 PM  

That Would Be Telling wrote:Singapore is an IQ shredder. http://www.xenosystems.net/iq-shredders/

That would seem to depend on who's statistics you believe


A relationship of 2 above average people to less than 2 above average children still holds true.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling August 18, 2016 4:55 PM  

@157 SirHamster:

That Would Be Telling wrote:
Singapore is an IQ shredder. http://www.xenosystems.net/iq-shredders/

That would seem to depend on who's statistics you believe


A relationship of 2 above average people to less than 2 above average children still holds true.


But a TFR of 1.2-3 no longer makes Singapore unique, that's shared by the city state of Hong Kong, South Korea for a real nation in Asia, Hungary, Spain and Portugal, Poland, and no immigration to speak of Japan is only one or two tenths higher.

I guess it's still an IQ Shredder, it imports these people and they don't reproduce at replacement rates (>= 2.1), but in the context of so many other lowest low full fledged countries I don't find that very interesting. Except it's indeed not a model for the future.

Blogger Daniel August 18, 2016 5:14 PM  

Happens here in Argentina too. Why do you thinkbthis happens? I'd love to know

Blogger Bard August 18, 2016 6:08 PM  

129) They are all into easy voodoo medicine like sleep and neurology.

Blogger S1AL August 18, 2016 6:10 PM  

"While on vacation in WY a few weeks ago there was a Thai restaurant everywhere you looked."

Where the hell did you find a bunch of Thai restaurants in WY? Even Google can only find a half dozen, and I've never personally seen one here.

Blogger Daniel August 18, 2016 6:56 PM  

As an argentinian i can tell, you don't thrive in a corrupt society that produces corrupt politicians. You just don't do anywhere

Blogger Daniel August 18, 2016 6:56 PM  

*go

Blogger Daniel August 18, 2016 7:00 PM  

OT: I just love AKB48. But everyone i know thinks they are weird. And me, by extension

Anonymous BGKB August 18, 2016 7:10 PM  

Africa is the way it is today because it is inhabited by people who didn't endure the brutal culling of natural selection found inside the Hajnal

Africa had brutal culling, by disease and being the slowest person around when hyenas came. IQ had nothing to do with their culling and everything to do with K selected peoples culling. You also don't see any blacks in drug tested strength events. America argued to change the gymnastics rules so blacks could compete.

The guys from Africa were such hard workers. They were really on top of everything. I was very impressed with them.

J. Philippe Rushton who, like many, puzzled over the different thinking patterns of Afros:

"Still, the low African IQ of 70 remains hard for many to accept. One reason for the disbelief: Africans—and African Americans—display high levels of social competence. They are outgoing, talkative, sociable, warm, and friendly. Psychometrically speaking, they score high on the Extraversion personality dimension.

It is this “winning personality” among Blacks, I believe, that makes it hard for so many to accept the validity of their failing tests of abstract reasoning ability. A typical academic story comes from professors who, on first exposure to African students, express their delight in the high levels of classroom performance. ... Only when the students took objectively measured essay or multiple-choice examinations did it become painfully obvious to even the most well-wishing faculty members that their grasp of abstract material failed to live up to their classroom rhetoric."

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 18, 2016 7:20 PM  

They are outgoing, talkative, sociable, warm, and friendly. Psychometrically speaking, they score high on the Extraversion personality dimension.

There's a reason why divorcees keep on handing over all their bank account numbers to Nigerian "princes". It's not hard to figure out, and it's not because the Nigerian scammers are all that smart, either.

On the upside, some of the best retail salesmen I've ever met were American blacks in Chicago department stores.

Blogger GFR August 18, 2016 7:23 PM  

My understanding is that the fertility rate in South American countries has been plummeting recently and the South Americans attribute this fact to the advent of "telenovelas" on TV that glamorize a first-world lifestyle with far fewer children.
.
I see no particular reason why "telenovelas" couldn't have the same effect in Africa, particularly since some African countries already have relatively low fertility rates (South Africa - 2.41).
.
I've noticed that there appears to be a correlation between the availability of TV sets and the fertility rate of African countries with the countries that have the highest fertility rate having the fewest TV sets. Niger has a fertility rate of 7.5 and only 10.2 TVs per thousand population compared to a fertility rate of 1.88 for the US but 754 TVs per thousand people.
.
Perhaps instead of distributing condoms the western aid agencies could distribute television sets? God knows that since the advent of flat screen TVs the number of old-fashioned CRT TVs cluttering up people's garages in the US is enormous.

Anonymous BGKB August 18, 2016 7:30 PM  

Historically its a people that have come out of no where. That's why I look at India right now.

Only the top caste has brains and they are the ones in the US now.

Anecdotally, I rarely see smart parents have large families (>3 kids.)

Its a lot more expensive to raise 4 kids well than when $20 got you a full grocery cart. Especially if you want to go to a "good safe school district"

It is almost a statistical certainty that your next MRI will be read by an Indian...Fish can also be taught to recognize patterns

Computer programs beat Radiologists a decade ago on mammography.

This is a fascinating thread... on the various subjects of genetics, race, IQ etc -- is there a modern definitive text ?

Start here http://thosewhocansee.blogspot.com/2015/05/why-re-colonization-future-orientation.html#more

if you strip Special Relativity away from Einstein's accomplishments, he'd still rate as one of the top scientists of the 20th Century

The IQ test that limited him to the lowest job at the patent office is strong support that he was credited with all knowledge that the Axis powers learned that was claimable with the exception of the mammalian diving reflex- hypothermia discovery.

it will be simple to isolate the genetic component of IQ.

Recently 8 high IQ markers have been found related to lower fertility.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886916308042

OK I think I am out for the night too much hunting down links.

Anonymous That Would Be Telling August 18, 2016 8:27 PM  

@168 BGKB:

Historically its a people that have come out of no where. That's why I look at India right now.

Only the top caste has brains and they are the ones in the US now.


I was under the strong impression that we're getting mostly lower, but still fairly high in the hierarchy (higher than a son of farmers like myself...) caste members, but mostly not ones, as noted by BCD @131, who are really capable of keeping a technologically advanced civilization going.

if you strip Special Relativity away from Einstein's accomplishments, he'd still rate as one of the top scientists of the 20th Century

The IQ test that limited him to the lowest job at the patent office is strong support that he was credited with all knowledge that the Axis powers learned that was claimable with the exception of the mammalian diving reflex- hypothermia discovery.


You do know he was finishing his Ph.D. while working at the Patent Office? And doing his annus mirabilis paper, all this published in 1905, two on quantum mechanics, one critical at the time (the other two were or pertained to Special Relativity).

Einstein's greatest accomplishments were pretty much finished with General Relativity (gravity), all before WWI was finished, but he kept his hand in on quantum theory, collaborated with Bose (their statistics took until 1995 to experimentally prove), and then beat his head against the wall of a unified field theory until he died, something physicists continue to do to this day.

So, no, that just so story doesn't hold up, and to this date, while people have questioned General Relativity or details of it (and it probably needs experimentation by less fawning types, but that by and large means getting stuff out into space which would negate the possibility of adverse results), it's still the only serious working theory of gravity we have.

You can't take that away from him, or claim the future Nazis had anything to do with it, not when Hitler was still a corporal in the German Army, and it's not a pretty sight when people try to tear down a great man on bogus grounds.

Blogger Were-Puppy August 18, 2016 10:00 PM  

@110 A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents

Exhibit A: The Washington, DC metro system. Almost entirely a patronage system for blacks, with deliberate anti-white bias from top to bottom.
---

What is it called? The one in Atlanta is MARTA, of which it is said stands for Moving Africans Rapidly Through Atlanta.

Blogger LBD August 18, 2016 10:16 PM  

Twenty five percent of the Nobel prizes in the sciences have been awarded to Jews, who constitute a fraction of a percent of the world's population. You have a constitutional right to dislike Jews, but accusing Jews of deficiency in innovation is just counterfactual.

Blogger Scott August 18, 2016 10:38 PM  

@VD

Curiously, you indirectly admit here Western culture is doomed.

The more I look at the global situation, the more I am convinced that those in the 1980s who thought Japan and China would dominate the world were correct, they were simply about 100 years early.

Convinced

Correct me if I misinterpret, but you are basically saying you have little faith America and most of the Euro West is going to rise up and beat down encroaching minorities. Or do your prior posts assume a longer time line, beyond 100 years? Maybe you can clarify.

Anonymous FP August 18, 2016 10:59 PM  

Ahh yes, India. Such a promising future.

India in 2030:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl0b2LGf9jM

Brit rides his honda motorbike through India:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPne-q4ynts

See 5min50s for the best part. Aside from the open air pooping.

Anonymous Alice De Goon August 18, 2016 11:08 PM  

Recovers? Japan can barely support 125 million inhabitants. Your argument is based on the idea that Japan will go from 125 million to zero, never mind the fact that for most of Japanese history, Japan consisted of less than 50 million people.

Japan has 8.168 live births per 1,000 people, or 1,029,168 per year. That is considerably north of ZERO. Japan is not about to disappear.


I think the reason people see doom on the horizon for Japan is because it's probably the population that most aesthetically resembles John Calhoun's Mouse Utopia experiments, whereby a population of mice were given everything they needed except space to expand. Within a few generations, the crowding caused all of the mice to go insane, forget how to rear young, and die. And while it's silly to expect a population of humans to follow the same behavioral patterns as mice, the "Beautiful Ones" mentioned in the experiment, (mice who kept to themselves and spent all day grooming,) greatly resemble Japan's "Hikikomori" class.

Saying "this population can't die! It started out with X members!" seems like a spurious argument when it comes to the Mouse Utopia - it was not the number of mice in the starting population that mattered - the "behavioral sink" that led to the Death Spiral in the Mouse Utopia kicked in while there was still technically plenty of space for the population to expand into. But there wasn't enough space for each mouse to live comfortably or to play out the instincts needed to initiate the reproductive process. The big fear among the Alt-Righters who know of the Mouse Utopia is that inept social engineering and feminism will do to the human population what a lack of space did to the mouse population.

Yeah, yeah, humans aren't mice and you can't compare the two, although I'd say that the average mouse has far more intelligence and sense of self-preservation than your average SJW or godless European leftist....

Blogger Noah B August 18, 2016 11:11 PM  

@119
I try to look for the people who are about to have the next burst of innovation.

Historically its a people that have come out of no where.

That's why I look at India right now.


Perhaps a virtual reality toilet that looks, smells, and feels exactly like the Ganges.

Anonymous MendoScot August 18, 2016 11:20 PM  

Rantor wrote:@8 China has sent tens of millions of Chinese to drive the Uyghers out of their lands and reinforce Chinese supremacy... I don't expect the Uyghers to win this fight.

They can only win with continued support from the centre. The Han do not want to live in the extremes of the north, northwest or southwest. They do so as a consequence of forced displacement. Thus repeated explosions of ethnic conflict.

Now, who will win? My money is on those who have adapted to those extreme environments over centuries. Han migration is always towards the centre, not the periphery.

Blogger John Calabro August 19, 2016 2:54 AM  

Hey Vox,
First time commenting. So China and Japan will recover and come to dominate later in this century, which I agree with this assessment. Two questions if you don't mind answering. 1. Have you heard of Martin Armstrong? and if so heard of his assessment that China by 2032 will be replacing the USA as the Financial Capitol of the World. I put the link down below
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/uncategorized/china-moving-to-replace-usa-as-financial-capitol-of-world/
2. What are your thoughts on Russia (maybe also Poland and Israel) on the topic on what will happen after to them after the Financial crisis. Will they also recover (like Japan and China) and even perhaps become a major player in the world post US and Western Europe?

Blogger Fatebekind August 19, 2016 6:32 PM  

Many of the same low tech ideas to improve the lives of third world people are also suggested in the novel,"The Ugly American," a 1958 political novel by Eugene Burdick and William Lederer. The US Govt was interested in building hydro electric facilities and highways in SE Asia when no one had electrical appliances or cars. A retired chicken farmer suggested importing a few hundred American breed chickens to improve egg production to up the protein intake of the natives. Ideas for using bicycle power for wells was also suggested.

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts