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Tuesday, August 09, 2016

The importance of illumination

Status 451 contemplates the damage caused to organizations and individuals by "value-extractors":
There’s a pattern most observers of human interaction have noticed, common enough to have earned its own aphorism: “nice guys finish last.” Or, refactored, “bad actors are unusually good at winning.” The phenomenon shows up in business, in politics, in war, in activism, in religion, in parenting, in nearly every collaborative form of human undertaking. If some cooperative effort generates a valuable resource, tangible or intangible, some people will try to subvert the effort in order to divert more of that resource to themselves. Money, admiration, votes, information, regulatory capacity, credibility, influence, authority: all of these and more are vulnerable to capture.

Social engineering, as a field, thus far has focused primarily on hit-and-run tactics: get in, get information (and/or leave a device behind), get out. Adversaries who adaptively capture value from the organizations with which they involve themselves are subtler and more complex. Noticing them, and responding effectively, requires a different set of skills than realizing that’s not the IT guy on the phone or that a particular email is a phish. Most importantly, it requires learning to identify patterns of behavior over time....

In Chapman’s analysis, a subculture’s growth passes through three phases. First come the geeks, the creators and their True Fans whose interest in a niche topic gets a scene moving. Then come the MOPs, short for “Members Of Public,” looking for entertainment, new experiences, and something cool to be part of. Finally, along come the sociopaths, net extractors of value whose long-term aim is to siphon cultural, social, and liquid capital from the social graph of geeks and MOPs. Sociopaths don’t just take, unless they’re not very good at what they do. Many sociopaths contribute just enough to gain a reputation for being prosocial, and keep their more predatory tendencies hidden until they’ve achieved enough social centrality to be difficult to kick out. It’s a survival strategy with a long pedigree; viruses that burn through their host species reservoir too quickly die off.

Corporations, of course, have their own subcultures, and it’s easy to see this pattern in the origin stories of Silicon Valley success stories like Google — and also those of every failed startup that goes under because somebody embezzled and got away with it. Ditto for nonprofits, activist movements, social networking platforms, and really anything that’s focused on growth. Which is a lot of things, these days.

Organizations have a strong incentive to remove net extractors of value. Would-be net extractors of value, then, have an even stronger incentive to keep themselves connected to the social graph. The plasticity of the human brain being what it is, this sometimes leads to some interesting cognitive innovations.... If you’ve ever seen an apparently-thriving group suddenly implode, its members divided over their opinions about one particular person, chances are you’ve seen the end of a sociopath’s run.
This is why sociopaths and predatory narcissists hate and fear people like Mike Cernovich and me. Both being Sigmas and more than a little inclined to march to our own beat, we are not vulnerable to the social pressure that silences most people when they get suspicious about a sociopath. Remember, sociopaths are always on. They are always scanning, trying to get a read on who might be aware that they are not what they pretend to be.

I can't tell you how many people I've caught in the middle of a hyperaware perusal of the group they are in, like a wolf in disguise surveying the sheep around him. They always react physically when caught out, often physically recoiling. Even more damning, they react in one of two ways. They either stay away from me and begin exhibiting signs of extreme personal dislike or they suddenly get very friendly in an attempt to figure out if I'm really onto them or if it was just a coincidence. If I don't respond in a warm and clueless manner, they soon turn openly hostile.

Most people have some inkling that there is something off about the sociopath, but they simply can't get their heads around believing what their subconscious is telling them. But if you get that ping from your subconscious radar about someone, don't ignore it, start watching him closely. Make a habit of it. More often than not, you'll soon see something that will justify your suspicions that everything is not as it should be.

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156 Comments:

Blogger Josh August 09, 2016 11:37 AM  

Reminds me of the Gervais theory

Blogger Servant of the Chief August 09, 2016 11:49 AM  

Wait, how does this sociopath theory relate to the nice-guys-finish-last thing? I thought Nice Guys finish last referred to those who are too timid, weak, trusting or otherwise to succeed in any field, not sociopaths, or am I reading that first paragraph wrong?

OpenID basementhomebrewer August 09, 2016 11:52 AM  

Servant of the Chief wrote:Wait, how does this sociopath theory relate to the nice-guys-finish-last thing? I thought Nice Guys finish last referred to those who are too timid, weak, trusting or otherwise to succeed in any field, not sociopaths, or am I reading that first paragraph wrong?

Who do you think sociopaths target?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 09, 2016 11:53 AM  

I thought you were going to describe women joining an org or company and beginning the purge. Kind of why I would like to see Scalzi allow women to moderate his blog, he would last a year before they thought crimed him off his own blog.

Blogger Aquila Aquilonis Fulminata August 09, 2016 11:55 AM  

How common are sociopaths?

Blogger residentMoron August 09, 2016 11:57 AM  

OT:

Reported in the Telegraph; Former UK Business Secretary Vince Cable has admitted that the principle of free movement is no longer defensible.

Sounds like someone waking up?

His given reason: "... because it treats Europeans more favorably those from around the world."

Cuck a doodle doo.

Anonymous Stephen J. August 09, 2016 11:58 AM  

It depends on how you're defining "last". Genuinely "nice", i.e. prosocial, altruistic and cooperative, individuals will usually find satisfactory median places in any group, but they rarely find places near the top of whatever hierarchy exists because they lack or deliberately refrain from the necessary ruthlessness of competition required to achieve it. However, in some contests -- like securing the affections of a particular woman -- anybody who isn't first might as well be last, which is where the saying comes from.

Said competitiveness isn't a guarantee of a sociopathic nature, but it does correlate. I myself am curious about the frequency of this occurrence, as I can honestly report that I don't think I've ever gotten a "warning ping" of this type about anyone; if sociopaths are common enough that I should have by this point in my life, then obviously something in my radar is defective, but if they're rare enough that it's plausible I might simply never have encountered one, then the skew is in my sample set and not my equipment.

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 09, 2016 12:03 PM  

Aquila Aquilonis Fulminata wrote:How common are sociopaths?

About 3%, more common in Africans and less common in Europeans and Asians. Three times more common in men, so a decent approximation is to assume that in every group of 100 people, three of the men are sociopaths and one of the women is. Most sociopaths are not violent but they are almost always parasitic vampires.

Blogger VD August 09, 2016 12:03 PM  

obviously something in my radar is defective

This. There are sociopaths in almost every medium-sized organization and up.

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 09, 2016 12:04 PM  

basementhomebrewer wrote:

Who do you think sociopaths target?


Weak people who have something they want.

Blogger tublecane August 09, 2016 12:05 PM  

Maybe we'd be better at catching them if we didn't use soul-sucking terminology like "net extractors of value." "Sociopath" is too clinical. (I don't trust psychology anyway.) We should call them something like wolves in sheep's clothing, but cleverer.

Blogger J A Baker August 09, 2016 12:09 PM  

Speaking of sociopath get a load of this recent statement by actor Will Smith about Trump and his supporters:

"As embarrassing as it is as an American to hear him talk, I think it’s good. We get to know who people are and now we get to cleanse it out of our country," Smith told reporters.

Cleanse it from our country? Say what?

Imagine if that was Clint Eastwood on Hillary and her supporters.

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 09, 2016 12:09 PM  

Servant of the Chief wrote:Wait, how does this sociopath theory relate to the nice-guys-finish-last thing? I thought Nice Guys finish last referred to those who are too timid, weak, trusting or otherwise to succeed in any field, not sociopaths, or am I reading that first paragraph wrong?

There is a lot of confusion on this topic lately. It's an over-reaction to the Equalist bias against the preselection heuristic, which says preselection is the only thing. Here's a blog post I wrote up to explain.

Anonymous ZhukovG August 09, 2016 12:11 PM  

Just taking a wild stab, but would sociopathy tend to manifest at the extremes of the sociosexual hierarchy?

Blogger Brian S August 09, 2016 12:12 PM  

This is kinda crazy, but I just heard a story from a co-worker yesterday during a break about this very behavior. He used to be in a well known Unreal Tournament clan that played competitively (I used to play a lot of online PC shooters, and help run a community as well, so it's a shared past time for us).

Anyway, to keep the story short, they had someone join their group and earn their trust over a period time building up relationships. But this guy was unnaturally good at the game and some of the member started to get suspicious. Many of the founding members (including my co-worker) quit over all the drama that ensued, and it eventually came out that this sociopath was the developer of hack programs and joined the clan for the express purpose of breaking it up slowly by poisoning the community. This is a level of sickness I can't even comprehend.

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 09, 2016 12:14 PM  

ZhukovG wrote:Just taking a wild stab, but would sociopathy tend to manifest at the extremes of the sociosexual hierarchy?

It's a Heartistean ALPHA trait, as are the other dark tetrad traits of machiavellianism, narcissism, and sadism.

Anonymous JI August 09, 2016 12:15 PM  

How does one accurately pick out the sociopaths?

Anonymous Sarah August 09, 2016 12:16 PM  

Sorry about being OT. I've been a long time reader of the blog. I'm raising three preschool age children. Would the ilk point me to any groups or activities or even church (we currently attend a church that we like) that would be good to get involved with in the Jefferson City Missouri area? Thanks!

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 09, 2016 12:16 PM  

tublecane wrote:Maybe we'd be better at catching them if we didn't use soul-sucking terminology like "net extractors of value." "Sociopath" is too clinical. (I don't trust psychology anyway.) We should call them something like wolves in sheep's clothing, but cleverer.

Vampires. I believe this is a cultural meme that exists as an antibody for this sort of person.

Anonymous Gen. Kong August 09, 2016 12:17 PM  

Mr.MantraMan wrote:I thought you were going to describe women joining an org or company and beginning the purge. Kind of why I would like to see Scalzi allow women to moderate his blog, he would last a year before they thought crimed him off his own blog.

I suspect that women - especially the femen-indoctrinated western kind - tend to follow such sociopaths because they're perceived as alphas (which raises the question of what's the percentile of narcissists/sociopaths who are alphas, gammas, etc.). The track record of women serving as useful idiots for such types is significant - from politics to churches to corporations - so there is some sort of tie in with the socio-sexual hierarchy.

Blogger J A Baker August 09, 2016 12:18 PM  

Yes, I've had run ins with sociopaths in all areas of my life. Work, school, family.

In many ways dealing with a sociopath is a lot like dealing with an SJW.

Now statistically speaking true born sociopaths are a very small percentage of the population, but recently because of mass media and trends in popular culture as well as what has been taught in schools, people, particularly younger people, millenials and younger have begun to adopt the traits of sociopaths.

The sociopath has become the thing to be, and everyone is trying to be one. They just don't know it. They don't know how they've been socially engineered to become the worst that humanity can be.

You know, it's like the Bible says about evil being called good, and good being called evil. Their ideas of what is good and noble in humans has been turned upside down.

Blogger Gaiseric August 09, 2016 12:21 PM  

J A Baker wrote:Speaking of sociopath get a load of this recent statement by actor Will Smith about Trump and his supporters:

"As embarrassing as it is as an American to hear him talk, I think it’s good. We get to know who people are and now we get to cleanse it out of our country," Smith told reporters.

Cleanse it from our country? Say what?

Imagine if that was Clint Eastwood on Hillary and her supporters.

So what if he did? We say that kind of stuff 'round here routinely; i.e. Trump is smoking out the traitors in the media and the Republican party and elsewhere.

And what's the penalty for treason?

I saw that article too, but my first thought was that hey; he gets it, even if he's on the wrong side. America can not much longer exist halting between two opinions. Liberty or totalitarianism? It's going to get ugly before advocates of those two basic concepts can coexist in any meaningful fashion.

Anonymous Amarnoth August 09, 2016 12:21 PM  

@1 "Josh"

I'm curious if VD himself counts as a Gervais Principle Sociopath (GPS). He is aware of the socio-sexual hierarchy; yet, rather than using this knowledge against those who are unaware, he generously publishes it online for anyone willing to listen.

If Supreme Dark Lord (SDL) was truly "Dark" he wouldn't comment on the failings SJWism. He would "enjoy the decline" by encouraging SJWism, or at least, ignoring it.

For all those who have not read Venkatesh Rao's Gervais Principle, understand it divides humanity into three main categories:

1. The clueless - those unaware of the socio-sexual hierarchy (people, often children, who are unaware of competition in general)

2. The losers - the pessimistic or regretfully aware (those who hate competition although the recognize its existence)

3. The sociopaths - those who have come to accept the hierarchy (those who love competition, note that some sociopaths encourage others to join in the competition, while others act as gatekeepers to keep the losers and the clueless out of their arenas)


Conclusion: Vox Day love, love, LOVES competition; and approaches semblance with God to the extent that he LOVES competition. SDL is only "Dark" when lets us remain ignorant to our sins. ...however, it may serve us well to discover those sins for ourselves.

Blogger SouthRon August 09, 2016 12:21 PM  

Tubalcane don't be dense. Label it what you like but do not be ignorant of their devices.

Once you learn to spot them. They will start spotting you. Predators learn to spot what can eat them. As Vox said they often recoil.

And net extractors of value is what they are, whether pastor, SciFi author, manager or politician. They give enough to wow those under their influence and to deflect unwanted attention from themselves, so they can continue to profit and take what they want be that money, fame, sex or power.

Blogger Gaiseric August 09, 2016 12:22 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger SouthRon August 09, 2016 12:22 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 09, 2016 12:23 PM  

When you deal with a sociopath...DEAL. Jump in with both feet press in hard because half measures are just going to him (*or much worse still, her*) room to maneuver against you. And they will be ruthless about it because they absolutely have no sympathy for you.

Remember they can't feel your pain.

Blogger SouthRon August 09, 2016 12:26 PM  

Zhukov, most of the sociopaths I have known have been alphas. Scalzi is a gamma. Omegas I think tend more to psychopathy. I haven't seen it much among betas and deltas. Sigmas don't give a damn except the outsider bad boys after sex.

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 09, 2016 12:28 PM  

NB: There is obviously some overlap with SSMV, but it is not the same thing as the Gervais principle or the Subculture archetypes in the Meaningness article (MOPs, geeks, etc.). Describing Vox as a Gervais Sociopath does not refer to the SSMV framework, but rather refers to his position within a goal-oriented organization (a business or something like it).

Blogger S1AL August 09, 2016 12:29 PM  

Sociopath is too clinical, which is why it has entered the vernacular lexicon far above and beyond any psychological term...

Blogger pyrrhus August 09, 2016 12:29 PM  

A profound piece of analysis..In my recent experience in our local school systems, sociopaths are usually women who have entrenched themselves with allies on the school board, and are slowly sucking the life out of everything, with an enormous salary and pension.

Blogger Whisker biscuit August 09, 2016 12:30 PM  

Will Smith is in no position to lecture to anyone; besides his quasi-dyke wife finger-banging other dykes under his nose, his kids are gender confused creeps--probably thinking they're lizard people from Scientology indoctetnation.

He can't draw on his own anymore.

He's useless.

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 09, 2016 12:30 PM  

If there is one thing a sociopath fears more than a Sigma it's an Alpha.

The primary trait of the Alpha isn't picking up chicks, it's guarding and protecting the group from threats to the cohesiveness of that group.

I had one in my platoon, once I spotted what he was doing his assigned duty was to police call Camp Lejeune.

Morning through night, that was his job, walking around Camp Lejeune with a garbage bag and staying the hell away from my platoon.

Anonymous Stephen J. August 09, 2016 12:30 PM  

"There are sociopaths in almost every medium-sized organization and up."

How big is "medium-sized" in this context? And does it make a difference if I report that I tend by natural inclination to stay away from the power hierarchies in the organizations I have worked with/for?

Anonymous SAM and Man August 09, 2016 12:32 PM  

If sociopathic is defined by:

1) A great deal of interest in ones goals:
2) A drive to accomplish them that extends to ruthlessness
3) a lack of empathy with others
4) a sense of enjoyment in "tweaking" others in a social situation, directly or indirectly

Then a lot of young men show some signs in that direction. But with age and a healthy society, they grow out of it.

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 09, 2016 12:34 PM  

JI wrote:How does one accurately pick out the sociopaths?

Use Bob Hare's twenty-point checklist:

The twenty traits assessed by the PCL-R score are:

glib and superficial charm
grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self
need for stimulation
pathological lying
cunning and manipulativeness
lack of remorse or guilt
shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness)
callousness and lack of empathy
parasitic lifestyle
poor behavioral controls
sexual promiscuity
early behavior problems
lack of realistic long-term goals
impulsivity
irresponsibility
failure to accept responsibility for own actions
many short-term marital relationships
juvenile delinquency
revocation of conditional release
criminal versatility

http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Hare-Psychopathy-Checklist.html

Anonymous andon August 09, 2016 12:34 PM  

12. Blogger J A Baker August 09, 2016 12:09 PM
Speaking of sociopath get a load of this recent statement by actor Will Smith about Trump and his supporters:

"As embarrassing as it is as an American to hear him talk, I think it’s good. We get to know who people are and now we get to cleanse it out of our country," Smith told reporters.

Cleanse it from our country? Say what?


he pretends to speak for Americans and "our" country

"our values" I notice more of this garbage from the left lately

Blogger J A Baker August 09, 2016 12:34 PM  

Nevertheless, them's definitely fightin' words. It just surprised me to see the fresh prince be so blatant about it.

Blogger pyrrhus August 09, 2016 12:35 PM  

@22 Attempting to coexist with Totalitarianism is exactly the problem. Nice people "compromise", Totalitarians don't, so the Coexisters lose and will eventually get wiped out. The Freedom party, if there is one, has to be ruthless...

Blogger Shimshon August 09, 2016 12:35 PM  

Someone who fits this description dropped into my social circle and caused real havoc. He induced people to hand over saved money or even take out loans to hand over to him. I was swept up too. But technically, things started to misfire, and a few whois and reverse DNS searches later, and an impressively laid out story was torn to shreds. I warned several people in time, but he (who had only been around a few weeks, with no plan on staying around) painted a very unflattering portrait of me (who they knew and lived in Israel with them), which they accepted. One friend gave him over $12K in savings, possibly much more. Several others took on loans that totaled at least $30K. This was 1995 dollars. Israel also has very lender friendly laws.

Blogger pyrrhus August 09, 2016 12:38 PM  

@37 To riff on the old Lone Ranger-Tonto joke (when they're surrounded by hostile Indians) "what do you mean 'we', Black man?!"

Anonymous Crude August 09, 2016 12:39 PM  

Are the sort of people being described in this article the same as SJWs, or fakers who join an organization intending to undermine it? I have in mind people who say they're 'pro-life', but 'really don't like to focus on abortion, and instead focus on other pro-life causes like universal health care welfare'.

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 09, 2016 12:40 PM  

SAM and Man wrote:3) a lack of empathy with others

No Sam. What you are describing is mere selfishness.

A Sociopath has absolutely no empathy at all whatsoever in the least.

They can't grow out of it. They can't be cured. They are broken and can't be fixed. That is what makes them so very dangerous.

Anonymous Jill August 09, 2016 12:40 PM  

"They either stay away from me and begin exhibiting signs of extreme personal dislike or they suddenly get very friendly in an attempt to figure out if I'm really onto them or if it was just a coincidence." This is absolutely correct. I've seen this repeatedly.

Blogger Johnny August 09, 2016 12:40 PM  

Brian S wrote: Many of the founding members (including my co-worker) quit over all the drama that ensued, and it eventually came out that this sociopath was the developer of hack programs and joined the clan for the express purpose of breaking it up slowly by poisoning the community. This is a level of sickness I can't even comprehend.

It does seem that some people by their nature want to undermine others. Sometimes it is self promotion and sometimes it seems to be by natural tendency.

Blogger VD August 09, 2016 12:47 PM  

I'm curious if VD himself counts as a Gervais Principle Sociopath (GPS).

Yes, although I don't place much stock in that. I know real sociopaths; most GPS variants are nothing of the sort.

How big is "medium-sized" in this context? And does it make a difference if I report that I tend by natural inclination to stay away from the power hierarchies in the organizations I have worked with/for?

50+. No. You're an innocent.

If there is one thing a sociopath fears more than a Sigma it's an Alpha.

True. All he fears from the Sigma is exposure. He fears being driven out of the group by the Alpha.


How does one accurately pick out the sociopaths?

I'll address this in a future post.

Are the sort of people being described in this article the same as SJWs, or fakers who join an organization intending to undermine it?

That is one example of the type, but the self-servers are more common.

Blogger VD August 09, 2016 12:53 PM  

They give enough to wow those under their influence and to deflect unwanted attention from themselves, so they can continue to profit and take what they want be that money, fame, sex or power.

This is exactly why I was so hesitant, for years, to permit volunteers or donations of any kind. I hate and despise predators, and preferred to go it alone rather than risk being confused with one.

It took several conversations with people who wanted to help in one way or another to convince me that it was all right to accept it. It's still something I wrestle with every time anyone volunteers for anything. Except for the VFM, of course. Their motivation, the love of chaos and havoc, I both share and trust.

Anonymous Anonymous August 09, 2016 1:05 PM  

VD. Question.

This might be the first time I have written on VP. The reason is because I totally relate to you and Mike. Business owner of 11 health clinics that I started from scratch, never really fit in socially, but always scored with women (how I don't know). I tend to and tended to be the guy who goes to a party and just watches people. Generally I would go alone so I could leave with a girl or leave when I want.

I never liked "turning it on" to get chicks or influence men or women or groups. My parents and family never "got me". I never did either not falling into peer pressure so it was hard to relate to guys on the team who did what I considered odd behavior.

I was always fearful of one thing. That I am the sociopath. I very much hate when people treat others poorly so I didn't think I was a sociopath, but I do tend to "buck" the "system".

Since becoming a christian almost 20 years ago (44 yr old), I went from "It's your best life yet" and Word of Faith, to mission based, to verse by verse intellectual teachings. I found the manosphere a few years ago and it confirmed my theory to my wife about WTF is going on in the churches, schools and marriage. Now I don't attend church because of the blue pill pastors etc. I am very committed to Wed/Sun teaching to my family though.

***I have observed people who I've caught being what you called on, but what about someone like me who gets caught at the edge of the group observing?

Blogger tublecane August 09, 2016 1:10 PM  

@24-"net extractors of value is what they are"

Okay, but I didn't say the term was inaccurate. I said it was soul-sucking, and so it is. It reeks of scientism. Someone above suggested "vampire," which is infinitely preferable. How many sociopaths do you think will be caught by inducing people to read them like spreadsheets? I'd much rather be a Van Helsing.

Blogger James Dixon August 09, 2016 1:14 PM  

> I can't tell you how many people I've caught in the middle of a hyperaware perusal of the group they are in, like a wolf in disguise surveying the sheep around him.

The only problem I have with that description is that I"m always that way around groups of people. :) But it my case, it's a matter of looking for danger, so you might be able to tell the difference.

Blogger Were-Puppy August 09, 2016 1:16 PM  

@33 Cataline Sergius

The primary trait of the Alpha isn't picking up chicks, it's guarding and protecting the group from threats to the cohesiveness of that group.
---

Thanks for mentioning this. I think I ran into 2 people that seem to fit this sociopath description trying to horn in on a part of my family this last week. And I was kicking their ass about it the whole time. They went from friendly to hiding from me right quick. When I return in a couple weeks, they will be gone or get more of an ass kicking. It hasn't gone beyond verbal yet, but hey, I'm game for physically putting a boot in their ass if it comes to stopping them from sucking resources away from a friendlier part of my family.

Not saying I'm an alpha, I have no idea what I am in those groupings.

Blogger tublecane August 09, 2016 1:17 PM  

@30-There are a great number of psychological terms in the vernacular, and I don't think "sociopath" is far above and beyond others. It's not even as popular as "psychopath," in my experience.

Blogger tublecane August 09, 2016 1:22 PM  

@43-That would also make them exceptionally rare. People tend to abuse terms like sociopath, and on the internet generally and this board especially autism. Which is only made easier by the unscientific and nebulous nature of psychology.

Blogger CM August 09, 2016 1:22 PM  

If you’ve ever seen an apparently-thriving group suddenly implode, its members divided over their opinions about one particular person, chances are you’ve seen the end of a sociopath’s run.

This sentence brought to mind the GOP and Trump, but who is the sociopath who's time is ending in this scenario? Its divided over a lot of different people, but the major ones seem to be Rubio, Trump, and Cruz.

Anonymous BGKB August 09, 2016 1:26 PM  

How common are sociopaths? About 3%, more common in Africans and less common in Europeans and Asians

What about other (((groups)))?

We should call them something like wolves in sheep's clothing, but cleverer. (((lizardmen)))

How does one accurately pick out the sociopaths?

They are the people that seem friendly enough but instinctively you don't want them to know where you live.

So what if he did? We say that kind of stuff 'round here routinely;

But everyone here knows I am more likely to poison leftists than push them out of Pinochet's helicopter,as I only took fixed wing flying lesion.

I have observed people who I've caught being what you called on, but what about someone like me who gets caught at the edge of the group observing?

When I enter a new place I usually look for exits, places with a clear field of view, & for clubs where the air conditioning vents are. When entering a place I have been before I do a quick scan for friends or exes.

Anonymous ThirdMonkey August 09, 2016 1:31 PM  

The most diabolical sociopath I ever worked with was a small Asian woman. By all accounts, she was completely unremarkable workwise in her entry-level position. What she was good at was using blackmail, gossip, discrimination complaints, lawsuits, victimhood status, backstabbing, and sex to move all the way to the top of our outfit. She had the uncanny ability to find the weaknesses of those above her, exploit them, have them moved/retired, and take over their position. Once she got to the top, she spent her days finding hapless victims to ruin. To her demise, she eventually picked the wrong guy to mess with, a ZFG guy who played her game and backed her into an indefensible corner. It took him two years, thousands in attorney's fees, and 30 days without pay, but he got it all back and then some. He got no promotion, nor did he seek it. All he wanted to do was get rid of the she-wolf and do his job.

She had one good trait, though. I talked to three different guys that banged her, and they all said she was an absolute animal in the sack.

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 09, 2016 1:32 PM  

BGKB wrote:How common are sociopaths? About 3%, more common in Africans and less common in Europeans and Asians

What about other (((groups)))?


Never trust a red-haired Jew.

Blogger GAHCindy August 09, 2016 1:34 PM  

I get those warning pings pretty frequently. Maybe people who have been burned in the past, or who are much more vulnerable (females, elderly, care-givers to young, small build, etc) just develop a good sense of the predatory nature of some people. I left a church recently because of a person in the ministry who scares me to death. Nobody else seems to have this feeling about him. I fully expect to see his name in a big ugly headline someday. My husband can't see it, but he believes me because people like that do not behave well around me, and this guy doesn't. I'm small, but I'm aware, and they really can tell. Especially when you don't let your children out of your sight. (He's that kind.)

Anonymous Sam the Man August 09, 2016 1:34 PM  

Cataline Sergius,

You may well be right but you have never been around young men in the Army I would guess.

An awful lot of them score on the following checklist
(I have omitted the ones that do not fit):


grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self
need for stimulation
pathological lying
cunning and manipulativeness
lack of remorse or guilt
shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness)
callousness and lack of empathy

poor behavioral controls
sexual promiscuity
early behavior problems
lack of realistic long-term goals
impulsivity
irresponsibility

many short-term marital relationships
juvenile delinquency

criminal versatility

The only caveat is a lot have intense loyalty to the group (small unit comradeship)which I exclude, but by no means all of them. Some really are out for themselves, in fact in junior officer ranks you see a not entirely insignificant amount of that.

Now most of these men go on to become quite responsible in later years and are no now way what I would call sociopathic. But as young men I do not know what other term to use, though perhaps it is a "tribe" induced effect. Now it must be said that for the most part the guys who display this have all going in at age 17 or 18, those are the guys that can have their civilian morality replaced. It is strange how your beliefs change when in that world, it is a completely different existence, isolated from normal civilized norms.

To give but one minor example: Most Vets would not think stealing from the Army is a sin or even stealing, if you could get away with it. The standard is: can you get away with it? If you could steal an arm from Uncle Sam and get away with it, hell yes in a moment and no guilt at all. That attitude does not change with time or separation from the service by the way.

In any case that is my observation.

Blogger Robert Divinity August 09, 2016 1:35 PM  

But if you get that ping from your subconscious radar about someone, don't ignore it, start watching him closely.

Solid advice. Once I tried to rationalize someone's behavior as an aberration and it easily could have cost me my freedom or life. Never ignore the ping. Most people, if they reflect, have ignored a tell to their detriment.

Anonymous andon August 09, 2016 1:36 PM  

I hadn't heard the term "juvenile delinquency" used in quite a while

Blogger SouthRon August 09, 2016 1:40 PM  

This is exactly why I was so hesitant, for years, to permit volunteers or donations of any kind. I hate and despise predators, and preferred to go it alone rather than risk being confused with one.

Dealt with this exact thing years ago when I was "in ministry". Having to raise support. I just couldn't bring myself to do it.

While Sigmas don't give a damn, I try to explain to my wife I don't care what people think of me generally. I just don't want people to think I'm "one of those".

God really hit me over the head with this recently. When it comes down to it, it's nothing more or less than the old sin of pride masking itself.

If I'm worried about what someone else thinks I am, I need to stop and worry about what God thinks I am. Other opinions and labels be damned. I can't let that hold me back from doing what he wants me to do, otherwise I'm fighting against God and against his blessings on me and my family.

Blogger OneWingedShark August 09, 2016 1:55 PM  

VD wrote:Except for the VFM, of course. Their motivation, the love of chaos and havoc, I both share and trust.

VD:

I know of two ideas here in the States that would throw a lot of chaos and havoc up due to the impact/interaction with corruption:

The first is the actual prosecution of the Senate (minus Boxer and Cotton) and Obama for the literal-treason of the Iran deal. -- http://edward.fish/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/A-Case-of-TreasonA.pdf -- Iran being recognized as an enemy of the States (state sponsor of terrorism) as well as with our being in a state of war, at least technically, with them. (Hey, if they can use technicalities to grind us down, turnabout's fair play, right?)

The second would be far more chaotic if we could pull it off. The Constitution only gives Congress the power to grant/establish patents and copyrights to authors/inventors. -- But a corporation cannot be an author or inventor, it can merely commission other to produce for it. -- If we could say persuade president Trump to issue an EO instructing the copyright and patent offices that all patents/copyrights not held by authors/inventors were null and void, and that despite "legal personhood" no corporation is eligible for a patent/copyright there would be a lot of chaos indeed.

Blogger Noah B August 09, 2016 2:08 PM  

When working at medium sized companies I've spotted a few of these people, but I never had enough power or influence to do anything about them. It's frustrating to see people who are bleeding an organization for personal benefit while bosses seem unwilling to see what should be blindingly obvious.

I have at least had the satisfaction of firing a few of these people as clients and consultants.

Blogger Marsh 01701 August 09, 2016 2:13 PM  

Thank you Vox for all you do, especially for this post. Several months ago I discovered (to my horror) my boss is one. He's spent the last year trying to get rid of me (came close but no cigar, so far). Trying to figure out how to survive...mostly I pray a lot.

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 09, 2016 2:16 PM  

@58 Sam the Man

I refer you to my second comment @33

Anonymous Maximo Macaroni August 09, 2016 2:39 PM  

Downton Abbey parades a variety of odd ducks across the screen, some with the sort of personalities these "value-extractors" exhibit. Amusing to study.

Blogger SirHamster August 09, 2016 2:48 PM  

tublecane wrote:Someone above suggested "vampire," which is infinitely preferable. How many sociopaths do you think will be caught by inducing people to read them like spreadsheets? I'd much rather be a Van Helsing.

A term for a monster who preys on the life of women and children and fears exposure to light? Who must be hunted and destroyed without pity?

Nah, too fantastical.

Now, if we were talking about a bad boy who sparkles in the sun ...

Blogger SouthRon August 09, 2016 2:50 PM  

Marsh,

Plan your exit before he exits you. It's coming.

Prayer is great and I am in no ways belittling that. But, prayer alone is not enough. If God has opened your eyes to this he has done so for a reason.

Figure out what you want to do and move that direction. Don't be caught flat-footed and if you can get out before the hammer falls all the better.

I've been through this more than once in my career and I have had the great pleasure of moving to something better in each case. Once being paid to leave. Twice watching it cost the company their business.

Ruthless does not describe these people. They don't feel. If they perceive you've slighted them, caught on to them or are of no use to them, your career is dead already. A zombie waiting to be shot and put out of its misery

Unless you can put him down first, leave. Be honest with yourself and don't romanticize your situation. I've seen too many people suffer from doing so.

Blogger SouthRon August 09, 2016 2:56 PM  

Marsh,

Plan your exit before he exits you. It's coming.

Prayer is great and I am in no ways belittling that. But, prayer alone is not enough. If God has opened your eyes to this he has done so for a reason.

Figure out what you want to do and move that direction. Don't be caught flat-footed and if you can get out before the hammer falls all the better.

I've been through this more than once in my career and I have had the great pleasure of moving to something better in each case. Once being paid to leave. Twice watching it cost the company their business.

Ruthless does not describe these people. They don't feel. If they perceive you've slighted them, caught on to them or are of no use to them, your career is dead already. A zombie waiting to be shot and put out of its misery

Unless you can put him down first, leave. Be honest with yourself and don't romanticize your situation. I've seen too many people suffer from doing so.

Blogger Chris Robertson August 09, 2016 2:59 PM  

Approximately 1/25 people

Anonymous Eric the Red August 09, 2016 3:04 PM  

Unless the males in a society recognize what's happening and immediately put a stop to it, feminism allows women to succumb to their innate narcissistic tendencies.

For a society in general, freedom substituted for liberty can spiral into license in a mathematically positive feedback loop. It provides greater opportunities for narcissists and sociopaths to climb on board for the ride down the whirlpool.

Anonymous Sarah August 09, 2016 3:08 PM  

VD,
I've been curious ever since you have described yourself as a Machiavellian. Since it's a related topic, I'm curious to know if and how that effects what you produce for public consumption like your writing, analysis, and prediction. I know you have said that a lot of times, you simply observe and report.

Anonymous Avalanche August 09, 2016 3:11 PM  

VOx: "I can't tell you how many people I've caught in the middle of a hyperaware perusal of the group they are in, like a wolf in disguise surveying the sheep around him."

My husband used to say that men are always innately hierarchical. That a man, a true man, walks into any room and (mentally) surveys the men, asking himself: "is that a wolf or a dog? Can I take him?" The wolves, the men, recognized each other; the others, the males, were oblivious.

Blogger Chris Robertson August 09, 2016 3:11 PM  

Approximately 1/25 people

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 09, 2016 3:21 PM  

Marsh 01701 wrote:ago I discovered (to my horror) my boss is one. He's spent the last year trying to get rid of me (came close but no cigar, so far). Trying to figure out how to survive...mostly I pray a lot.
Get out. Get out now.
Your job from the moment you realized what was going on was to find a new job.
If he's trying to get rid of you, it's because he either sees you as a threat or he thinks he can profit by removing you. Now that you recognize him, you're even more of a threat.
If he were a co-worker, you'd have a chance. As your supervisor, unless you have the dirt on him or a protector much higher in the organization, you're best off just leaving now before he finally hits on the right tactic to get you removed.

Blogger Marsh 01701 August 09, 2016 3:28 PM  

Thanks for the help SouthRon,
Already on it. I have a hiatus until December (he's deployed). I am looking hard and wide and in fact found something completely opposite of what I'm doing now. I think I could have ducked under his radar except I'm open and honest (deadly combo? stupid combo!) so he noticed me and now I'm the target of several others just like him. The hardest part is staying focused while he's not hammering me.

Blogger Marsh 01701 August 09, 2016 3:32 PM  

Thanks snidely, I'm searching as fast as I can! Funny thing...I recently started playing war games (board games not electronic) that has helped me immensely though I can't put my finger on it. I am less emotionally involved with my situation and am treating it more like a game but I'm still in trouble and need to leave.

Blogger SirHamster August 09, 2016 3:53 PM  

Marsh 01701 wrote:I recently started playing war games (board games not electronic) that has helped me immensely though I can't put my finger on it.

Resource management, objective evaluation of the state of forces, and gaming out how specific actions will accomplish your objective within the framework of game rules while facing a hostile opponent.

Practice for your brain to override the feelz, make decisions, and leave the rest to the dice.

Godspeed.

Blogger Bard August 09, 2016 4:01 PM  

Marsh, you male or female?

Anonymous Shut up rabbit August 09, 2016 4:05 PM  

tublecane wrote:We should call them something like wolves in sheep's clothing, but cleverer.

"Intraspecies kleptoparasites."

Blogger szopen August 09, 2016 4:16 PM  

It's logical that humans should evolve some rudimentary defenses against sociopathes. Those can;t be 100% good, because sociopaths evolve alongside others in order NOT to be detected. Nevertheless, few experiments confirm that humans have ability to detect criminals with higher-than-random accuracy.

I do not claim that I am alway right, but many times I decided I don't trust him within second after meeting him. Funny thing, I have never had this feeling with women.

Blogger Matthew August 09, 2016 4:28 PM  

Shut up rabbit wrote:tublecane wrote:We should call them something like wolves in sheep's clothing, but cleverer.

Guys, this isn't hard. They're serpents. A brood of vipers.

Blogger Matthew August 09, 2016 4:29 PM  

szopen wrote:I do not claim that I am alway right, but many times I decided I don't trust him within second after meeting him. Funny thing, I have never had this feeling with women.

Most amusing. The only sociopaths I've recognized are female.

Blogger szopen August 09, 2016 4:33 PM  

Matthew wrote:szopen wrote:I do not claim that I am alway right, but many times I decided I don't trust him within second after meeting him. Funny thing, I have never had this feeling with women.

Most amusing. The only sociopaths I've recognized are female.

Hey, I am not saying females are not sociopaths. They are. SImply, I have imperfect male-sociopath detector. I do not seem to have female-sociopath detector.

Anonymous General August 09, 2016 4:45 PM  

Extensive use of labels to explain people is behaviour in accord with socialism. I mean, beta this, gamma that, SJW, sociopath, psychopath, predator, narcissist, hater, pufter, farter. It can read like anti-socialism, but the act of labeling is itself the act of socialism.

There's no wonder why labeling is one of the core methods in socialism. Poisonous activity is adequate to poisonous philosophy.

One of the unknown problems with labeling is that it's double-edged sword. You label and label and label others, and your brain starts to label and label and label you back. Usually unconsciously. And not in a good way. It's proven by cognitive psychology.

The result is some form of mental inbreeding. That's why any form of socialism - communism, nazism, fascism, socio-democraticsm... - degenerates rather steeply across the board.

Anyway, what I want so say, I'm vary of anybody who so freely labels and labels and labels.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 09, 2016 4:50 PM  

General wrote:but the act of labeling is itself the act of socialism.
Did you do this to yourself, or were you born retarded?

If that's your idea of socialism, you have no idea what socialism is.

What you call "labeling" is exactly and precisely pattern recognition. Which is an intellectual process, so maybe you're not familiar with it.

Blogger Nate August 09, 2016 4:51 PM  

"This is why sociopaths and predatory narcissists hate and fear people like Mike Cernovich and me. Both being Sigmas and more than a little inclined to march to our own beat, we are not vulnerable to the social pressure that silences most people when they get suspicious about a sociopath"

You're not a sociopath.

Scalzi is a sociopath.

Cernovich is likely a sociopath as well.

Blogger Nate August 09, 2016 4:56 PM  

"Anyway, what I want so say, I'm vary of anybody who so freely labels and labels and labels."

Really?

Because I think everyone that is wary of people that label others is a huge pussy.

Pussy.

Anonymous General August 09, 2016 5:04 PM  

@Nate, @Snidely Whiplash

:) You do see how you prove my point?

It's so easy to call someone retarded and pussy online, of course.

Blogger bob k. mando August 09, 2016 5:05 PM  

2. Servant of the Chief August 09, 2016 11:49 AM
Wait, how does this sociopath theory relate to the nice-guys-finish-last thing? I thought Nice Guys finish last referred to those who are too timid, weak, trusting or otherwise to succeed in any field, not sociopaths, or am I reading that first paragraph wrong?




you need to learn to think in Negative Space.

IF
nice guys always finish last
THEN
who always finishes first?


7. Stephen J. August 09, 2016 11:58 AM
then obviously something in my radar is defective



winner, winner, chicken dinner.

remember also, clinical sociopaths are NOT the only ones who use the Social Dominance Gaming techniques that Natural Born Sociopaths seem to be congenitally effective in.

the suite of sales tricks practiced by Used Car Salesmen ( and many others in sales ) share a lot of these traits.

Narcissists and Borderlines are also extremely manipulative in this manner.



9. VD August 09, 2016 12:03 PM
This. There are sociopaths in almost every medium-sized organization and up.



total up all the various *aggressively manipulative* personalities ( bipolar is another ) in the DSM and something like 25% of the population could be diagnoseable.

anyone working retail sales would interact with dozens of these people every day. of course, in a pure cash / purchase transaction there isn't really that much opportunity for the manipulation to express itself so you wouldn't notice it in many cases.

i do have several retail horror stories that would seem to conform to this, now that i know what we're talking about though.


21. J A Baker August 09, 2016 12:18 PM
Now statistically speaking true born sociopaths are a very small percentage of the population, but recently because of mass media and trends in popular culture as well as what has been taught in schools, people, particularly younger people, millenials and younger have begun to adopt the traits of sociopaths.



yes.

in the same way that Hitler created the Hitler Youth ( Mao created the Red Guard, etc ) in the space of a half generation, it does not take long for the next generation to become indoctrinated, entrained and habituated to ideologies that would be completely foreign to the very parents in who's households they grew up.



23. Amarnoth August 09, 2016 12:21 PM
3. The sociopaths - those who have come to accept the hierarchy (those who love competition



category error.

'competition' is not lying and manipulation.

lying and manipulation can be used in the service of competition but are not necessarily long term success strategies.

when lying and manipulation become ensconced as the only long term way to win, then you know that the hierarchy is totally corrupt.

and remember:
Wall Street screens applicants to FIND sociopathic traits ... that's who those companies WANT as their chief executives.


40. Shimshon


read Shimshon's account again. this is a clinical, born sociopath.

people, who had known Shimshon for decades were taking the word and accusations of some manipulative asshole that they had known only weeks over his.

and look at how he paid them back for trusting him.

Blogger Nate August 09, 2016 5:13 PM  

"It's so easy to call someone retarded and pussy online, of course."

You don't have point pussy. You have a posture.

And its boring as hell.

Anonymous General August 09, 2016 5:13 PM  

@Snidely Whiplash

Labeling is not socialsm, it's a method, an important one, in socialism. In that way it's an act of socialism.

And it's true it's pattern recognition. But it's very simple and self-poisonous pattern recognition.

Blogger bob k. mando August 09, 2016 5:13 PM  

85. General August 09, 2016 4:45 PM
but the act of labeling is itself the act of socialism.


the Bible labels people as either Believer or Unbeliever.

the Torah labels people as either Hebrew or Goyim.

the American Revolutionaries labeled people as either Loyalists or 'for Independence'.

i shall label you as a fucking moron.

Blogger VFM #7634 August 09, 2016 5:13 PM  

You're not a sociopath.

Scalzi is a sociopath.

Cernovich is likely a sociopath as well.


It would make sense if sociopathy was a trait that was concentrated at both the very top and the very bottom of the spectrum, particularly in the Alpha, Sigma, Gamma, and Omega ranks. The Delta and Beta ranks, by contrast, are highly unlikely to be sociopaths.

Gamma sociopaths, for example, would include some famous bloody dictators, definitely Stalin and perhaps Hitler, along with a large number of 1930s Soviet Communist Party members. I imagine that Gamma sociopaths are by far the most dangerous: Secret Kings abusing whatever power they manage to get, and having no functional consciences to hold them in check.

Anonymous 6184 August 09, 2016 5:17 PM  

Have had plenty of run-ins with sociopaths over the years, something in my personality draws them out, I have a knack for spotting them.

In my current organization we have an explict policy of actively screening them out and driving them out if they make it inside and reveal themselves.

I am sure a few have slipped past the gatekeepers, but keep their heads down due to the policy and climate that doesn't tolerate those sorts. Having let go a few folks like that also helps to serve as a reminder.

Blogger Noah B August 09, 2016 5:22 PM  

@92

"Labeling is not socialsm, it's a method, an important one, in socialism. In that way it's an act of socialism."

Breathing isn't socialism, but it's an important method used by socialists. In that way breathing is an act of socialism.

'Moron' is an accurate label.

Anonymous General August 09, 2016 5:37 PM  

Be careful: "One of the unknown problems with labeling is that it's double-edged sword. You label and label and label others, and your brain starts to label and label and label you back. Usually unconsciously. And not in a good way. It's proven by cognitive psychology."

I'm kind of surprised people here don't know this. But it is kind of general knowledge about communism. Labeling is not just a method in communism, but one of the core "soft" methods to be used against everybody who don't fall in line.

As I said, poisonous method for poisonous philosophy.

Blogger Josh August 09, 2016 5:49 PM  

General Gamma, I presume

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 09, 2016 5:50 PM  

General wrote:Labeling is not socialsm, it's a method, an important one, in socialism. In that way it's an act of socialism.

And it's true it's pattern recognition. But it's very simple and self-poisonous pattern recognition.


Secret genius has a secret method of analysis and he's going to apply it.
You've proven literally NOTHING. You've demonstrated I've labelled you. Now how about you demonstrate the other half of the equation. Demonstrate through anything short of bald assertion or question begging that I'm a socialist.

I will warn you though, If I'm a socialist, then 99% of the human population is socialist. Anyone more social than Simon Stylites is socialist, and your label of Socialist has no meaning.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 09, 2016 5:51 PM  

General wrote:Labeling is not socialsm, it's a method, an important one, in socialism. In that way it's an act of socialism.

And it's true it's pattern recognition. But it's very simple and self-poisonous pattern recognition.


BTW, you do realize, Mr Super Secret Genius, that labeling someone Socialist is an act of labeling. Which means, one presumes, that you area Socialist.

Anonymous General August 09, 2016 6:01 PM  

It's not General as in title, Comrade Josh, it's general as in widespread, common, extensive, universal, wide etc... You know, how you're generally so impotent that you have to go online and curse at people. Come on, admit it. You must be impotent.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 09, 2016 6:08 PM  

General wrote:It's not General as in title, Comrade Josh, it's general as in widespread, common, extensive, universal, wide etc... You know, how you're generally so impotent that you have to go online and curse at people. Come on, admit it. You must be impotent.

Wow! You didn't take long to descend to gamma, did you?

Now we're just going to mock you, you subliterate fool.

Anonymous General August 09, 2016 6:10 PM  

@Snidely Whiplash

Of course you have to label. I wrote "extensive use of labeling". And I primarily meant character labels, or labels that negatively brand someone's beliefs.

As for proof, I said where to get it. Read about communism propaganda and methods.

And read cognitive psychology to understand the impact of labeling on the labeler. It's basically all negative consequences, by the way.

Blogger John S August 09, 2016 6:11 PM  

How does one accurately pick out the sociopaths?

There are a few popular books out about the subject. The Sociopath Next Door was pretty interesting, and went through some case studies, so you at least get an idea of how some of them act. I'm just a pleb layman, though... There may well be a professional that reads here. Speak up headshrinkers!

Anonymous General August 09, 2016 6:17 PM  

Wow! You didn't take long to descend to gamma, did you?

Now we're just going to mock you, you subliterate fool.

Alpha threat, I guess?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 09, 2016 6:19 PM  

General wrote:Of course you have to label. I wrote "extensive use of labeling". And I primarily meant character labels, or labels that negatively brand someone's beliefs.
Yet, here you are, labeling like there's no tomorrow.
Fucking Commie.

Anonymous Bowman August 09, 2016 6:20 PM  

Cernovich is likely a sociopath as well.

Ridiculous.
Did you ever listen to one of his podcasts ?
He explains for instance how he imagines he is dead to liberate himself from debilitating inhibitions.
A sociopath doesn't need a way to liberate himself from social norms, he is free of them in the first place.

Anonymous BGKB August 09, 2016 6:22 PM  

Wow! You didn't take long to descend to gamma,

My money is on Lambda

Oddly enough BLM doesn't like cops handing out free taxpayer paid ice cream to nigletts either
http://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2016/08/09/member-of-presidents-police-task-force-slams-peta-for-teaming-with-cops-to-hand-out-free-ice-cream/

Anonymous General August 09, 2016 6:25 PM  

Yet, here you are, labeling like there's no tomorrow.

Do you know what labeling is?

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 09, 2016 6:27 PM  

Boring troll.

Anonymous General August 09, 2016 6:30 PM  

My money is on Lambda

Your Monopoly money?

Blogger VD August 09, 2016 6:41 PM  

Anyway, what I want so say, I'm vary of anybody who so freely labels and labels and labels.

You're certainly very something. You're also done here, as you and your opinions are not the topic. No more commenting on this post. Do it again, and you'll be spammed.

Cernovich is likely a sociopath as well.

Not even a little bit. Mike is closer to an anti-sociopath, as he's more empathetic than I am, and I am much more empathetic than the norm.

Anonymous Bowman August 09, 2016 6:41 PM  

I agree with General, bad labeling causes harm, and it is indeed the tool of the socialists to subvert.
In this sociopathy doesn't looks like a great concept.
Basically it means being anti-social ... and what the fuck does that mean ? Is it good / bad ?
The reclusive is anti-social, but doesn't endanger the group.
The politician wants to unify society ... to plunder it.

Better talking about parasite, or group saboteur.

Anonymous Shamus August 09, 2016 7:34 PM  

+1

Communicate in the across the *path understand. Be aware it scares the sheep when you bear your fangs and take one out. Serves as a useful reminder you're not one of them (sheep).

Anonymous Shamus August 09, 2016 7:40 PM  

Not telling you anything you don't know when I write "Jesus < sociopathy".

Phil 1:9-11

Among your gifts are likely knowledge and discernment. Uncluttered by PC and empathetic vagaries, you can likely hold in ways others cannot.

Strengthen that.

Anonymous Shamus August 09, 2016 7:40 PM  

That was autocorrect inverted. Jesus greater than, not less.

Anonymous Shamus August 09, 2016 7:42 PM  

Enormous difference IMHO. Predator moves differently and distinctly.

Blogger S1AL August 09, 2016 7:43 PM  

"scientific evidence"

"Cognitive psychology"

Pick 1

Anonymous Shamus August 09, 2016 7:44 PM  

Doesn't much matter. Do the strong thing, label later.

Anonymous Shamus August 09, 2016 7:47 PM  

+1

We all serve someone. Put the pedal down and serve Him well!

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 09, 2016 7:48 PM  

Shamus wrote:Doesn't much matter. Do the strong thing, label later.

Lol, I take it back, there is some small entertainment to be found.

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 09, 2016 7:48 PM  

Good day, fellow Christian!

Anonymous Hezekiah Garrett August 09, 2016 7:50 PM  

@113

It gets harder and harder to discount sociosexual hierarchy stuff when people literally play to type.

If I was more cynical, I'd think half the banned folks here are VD sock puppets created only to drive traffic to alphagames.

Anonymous Shamus August 09, 2016 7:56 PM  

May be important to note and emphasize sociopath is not an insult. Anecdotally, Cernovich's presentation in SF seemed to reveal much emotional empathy.

Good lists of characteristics already on the thread. My heuristic is sociopaths view humans as meat puppets. Few of them around.

Anonymous andon August 09, 2016 8:03 PM  

General August 09, 2016 5:37 PM
Be careful: "One of the unknown problems with labeling is that it's double-edged sword. You label and label and label others, and your brain starts to label and label and label you back. Usually unconsciously. And not in a good way. It's proven by cognitive psychology."

I'm kind of surprised people here don't know this. But it is kind of general knowledge about communism. Labeling is not just a method in communism, but one of the core "soft" methods to be used against everybody who don't fall in line.

As I said, poisonous method for poisonous philosophy.


I think this first paragraph is true.

Blogger JACIII August 09, 2016 8:14 PM  

The Gamma pattern is real, predictive, and crazy accurate. Stunning.
I don't think one could write a bot that more accurately follows the script than General.

Anonymous Ellipsis Lacuna August 09, 2016 8:27 PM  

Tom Ripley

Highsmith characterizes Ripley as a "suave, agreeable and utterly amoral" con artist and serial killer who always evades justice. In his review of Purple Noon, Rene Clement's 1960 film adaptation of The Talented Mr. Ripley, Roger Ebert describes Ripley as "charming, literate, and a monster". Book magazine ranks Ripley #60 on its list of the 100 Best Characters in Fiction since 1900.

Ripley is epicurean and sophisticated, living a life of leisure in rural France. He spends most of his time gardening, painting, or studying languages. This is financed by a stolen inheritance, a small income from the Buckmaster Gallery, and his wife's allowance from her wealthy father. He is polite, friendly and cultured, and dislikes people who lack such qualities; when the Pritchards appear in Ripley Under Water, their poor taste and manners immediately offend him.

Ripley is portrayed as devoid of conscience; in The Boy Who Followed Ripley, he admits that he has never been seriously troubled by guilt. Though he sometimes feels "regret" about his earliest murders — he considers the murder of Dickie Greenleaf "a youthful, dreadful mistake", and that of Freddie Miles "stupid" and "unnecessary" — he cannot remember the number of his victims. He is not without redeeming qualities, however. He feels genuine affection (if not love) for several characters throughout the series, and has his own code of ethics; in Ripley's Game, Highsmith writes that Ripley detests murder unless it is "absolutely necessary". He has typically been regarded as "cultivated," a "dapper sociopath", and an "agreeable and urbane psychopath".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Ripley

Blogger JACIII August 09, 2016 8:27 PM  

If you want to hunt sociopaths look where they feed. I always keep my eye on youth ministers and music ministers.

We all know a guy who is overplaying his character; who uses terms/phrases of a group without understanding. He's a caricature and a shallow one, but makes the right noises at the right times.

Identify them and steer clear unless there is a direct territory conflict in which case my advice is to stomp on them early, hard, often, and in public. They are repulsive creatures.

Anonymous JAG August 09, 2016 8:28 PM  

Just my own personal opinion on the matter, but I suspect that the percentages of sociopaths is much greater than 3%.

Blogger Marsh 01701 August 09, 2016 8:34 PM  

Bard...
female, Vietnam era vet.

Blogger LP9 Solidified in Gold! Rin Integra August 09, 2016 8:49 PM  

111 from reading at Danger and Play and listening to Stefan and Mike's talks, Mike Cern is an empath whom is caring, married and is highly productive, he is another good man around here and around the manoland - which we need; good men.

I almost wrote him about several illegalities committed against me but opted to let those go but I know if I presented my case with my evidence he'd at least hear me out. The good men are always willing to hear out a person like me and never once was I mistreated or ignored but simply educated and taught matters I did not know, of which I always say how Milo, Stefan, Mike Cern, Vox, Dalrock, Kong, Chateau Heart and many other high IQ professionals, commentors, VFM, Dread Ilk teach and help others online! They are deserved check$ for their help not anyone's disdain!

In fact, 85 or General you dont know what you are talking about and your invective snarkissism is apparent.

Blogger VD August 09, 2016 9:19 PM  

The Gamma pattern is real, predictive, and crazy accurate. Stunning.

That's what I keep telling people. I didn't make ANYTHING up. I merely observed actual human behavior.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 09, 2016 9:59 PM  

It always surprises me how quickly they go full gamma. As soon as Nate and I challenged his retarded shit, out came the secret Sooper Genius.

Blogger Lazarus August 09, 2016 9:59 PM  

Keep your friends close, and your sociopaths superficially closer.

Blogger J Van Stry August 09, 2016 10:08 PM  

A friend of mine wrote a very interesting book about a startup he was involved in. One of the key members was embezzling large sums of money. The FBI was even involved. He was discovered because another friend, from another company, called him to warn him.

They had enough to send him to jail. But they didn't. Why? because it would have wasted too much of the company's time and effort, and been a distraction, as well as bad PR. So the guy got away with about a million dollars.

So yeah, it pays to be the psycho embezzler, because most corporations don't want to be bothered prosecuting. Because it's 'embarrassing.'

Blogger Lazarus August 09, 2016 10:39 PM  

Aeoli Pera wrote:Never trust a red-haired Jew.

That is poetic. Although, gingers of other persuasions are equally suspect.

Blogger Mountain Man August 09, 2016 11:16 PM  

Throughout my life Ive always had pretty good success at instinctively knowing a "spath" when I meet one.
Personally, Ive taken the Dark Triad tests and graded fairly high in the dark arts. Im pretty much - almost but not quite - one of these types. So ..you quickly recognize those around you that have those dark tendencies.

Most have a lot charm . It will draw you right in. But over time - there will always fail to be congruity between what they say and present, to those around them, and what they actually do. Subtle and overt manipulation is also a major tool in their tool chest.
But when push comes to shove and you fail to be played they will - without fail- drop all pretenses of silky, smooth, charm and switch into a vindictive threatening asshole.

Blogger Leo Little Book in Shenzhen August 09, 2016 11:29 PM  

Pastor Steven Anderson on Justification for Throwing People Out of Church (Matthew 18).

"Judas" doctrine predates SJWs Always Lie. Example given.

Blogger Mountain Man August 09, 2016 11:39 PM  

@64
Start a business now ! Work every extra waking hour at it. That includes weekends and vacation days. Make it sustainable and something that could provide just the enough of a salary to cover your families basic living expenses.
Ive been in your shoes twice. Both times involved sociopathic bosses. The first time I was nearly left destitute. But my gut all along had told me that the scum was going to do this , so I kept him in the dark on new clients and took every one of them with me when he shit canned me. This base allowed me to start a business in my given field. But it was brutally tough for the next four years
Fast forward 8 years, I took a corporate job. At the same time I kept my business going - nearly full bore. I had subcontractors doing most of the work. Halfway through my tenure at the corporate gig - a sociopath reclaimed his power seat. Within a year I was gone.
Ill never forget the day I was canned though. He called me into the conference room . Next to him sat an HR fatty and he began this song and dance about shutdowns etc.. and how I was no longer needed there. I just remember locking eyes and just saying " do you what you got to do - were all adults here". After he left - HR fatty was going over the unemployment paper work etc.. and I remember saying " don't wast your time - Ive got a business going full bore on the side. " She was like " no unemployment?" Im like "no" . She looked at me like I had three heads and said " Oh ok"
Having that security gave me a sense of peace and calmness the likes of which no words could express.

Anonymous wildcard August 10, 2016 12:58 AM  

My observations:
Sociopaths are focused on other people rather than the job. A regular "bad egg" who doesn't want to be there will just slack off, but a sociopath will try to appear enthusiastic while tearing others down. SJWs are excellent examples because the diversity programs they erect are superficially "good", but in practice they are used to remove the "bad people", which leaves a vacuum the SJWs intend to fill.
You can identify sociopaths by the incongruity of their everyday energy and the fake energy they exhibit when people are watching. If someone goes from being generally unhappy/cynical to overenthusiastic in the presence of a superior or group, you've probably got a sociopath. Also, if you get the feeling you can't let your guard down with someone despite being more or less on the same level.

Blogger Groot August 10, 2016 2:25 AM  

Sociopaths and psychopaths are equivalent: the modern term is Antisocial Personality Disorder, or, if they're less than 18 years old, they have Conduct Disorder. No one who did not have Conduct Disorder will be diagnosed as having Antisocial Personality Disorder.

The lack of empathy is the tell. Although impossible to treat, so far, the diagnosis is remarkably simple, just a couple of verbal tests. An MRI scan will also reveal it readily. The ventral pathway from the limbic system to the prefrontal neocortex is interrupted at the orbital cortex (the portion of the cortex above the eyes - the "orbits" - though not related to vision, which is concentrated in the occipital region). Where, in normal people, this area serves an inhibitory function, it goes dark with the sociopath on an MRI scan. Where a normal person thinks what this might ramify for social consequences, what people might feel about this, how this might impact people's opinions, feelings, and outcomes, the sociopath only is concerned with their personal feelings. They are limbic monsters: id creatures from , Forbidden Planet.

For them, everybody falls into one of two categories: 1) a victim or 2) an accomplice on the way to becoming a victim. Some do improve with time, somewhat, if they're smart and as the myelination of the axons proceeds into the twenties. I saw one transform under the influence of ecstasy (MDMA or 3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine) from cold-blooded robot to a sweet and empathetic sweetheart, only to see the reversion as the drug wore off. Very creepy.

Often, they develop a persona (mask) of victimhood. The reason people keep turning on them, despite their saintly selves, is because they are victims, unfairly persecuted. They cannot see any wrong in themselves. Often, they really are trying, but broken.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper August 10, 2016 2:28 AM  

Aeoli Pera wrote:tublecane wrote:Maybe we'd be better at catching them if we didn't use soul-sucking terminology like "net extractors of value." "Sociopath" is too clinical. (I don't trust psychology anyway.) We should call them something like wolves in sheep's clothing, but cleverer.

Vampires. I believe this is a cultural meme that exists as an antibody for this sort of person.


I've read far too much folklore and this is my impression also. Essentially the vampire is a narcissistic ghost (or occasionally animated corpse) that just won't stay dead and keeps treating people in his/her/its community as prey much asin life

Blogger pbuxton August 10, 2016 10:11 AM  

@96:

Do you have an article link for Communism and cognitive blowback from labeling? ty

Anonymous Mr. Rational August 10, 2016 10:32 AM  

The supposed evil of "labelling" is just another name for the PC taboo on noticing.

Blogger dadofhomeschoolers August 10, 2016 10:42 AM  

So I have a question.
Do these type of people sometimes have a "protector" above them who absolutely cannot see what they are doing?
Several times in my life now I have observed where certain people just trash everyone from .001 below their level and down, but are the bosses "pet", and all of the associated turnover is attributed to "bad luck".
The bosses just cannot see the problems these people are creating, and look suspiciously at anyone trying to warn them and point out the issues.
One situation was a head pastor and the guy in charge of the children's ministry. Church was nearly split by the time it was all over.
Almost like the 'pathic underling had some sort of demonic hold on the boss.

Blogger Were-Puppy August 10, 2016 11:49 AM  

@96 General

I'm kind of surprised people here don't know this. But it is kind of general knowledge about communism. Labeling is not just a method in communism, but one of the core "soft" methods to be used against everybody who don't fall in line.
---

Ok, I think I see where you are coming from. Having plowed through a lot of the Black Book of Communism, what you are describing is the mislabeling of people.

In the USSR, these labels were used like buckets. One of the favorite buckets was the Kulak bucket. If, all of a sudden, they wanted to be rid of a certain region, they just begin calling them all Kulaks.

Having a label for people that accurately describes them is not a communist tactic. Misusing labels for nefarious purposes would have been a Commie tactic.

Blogger Were-Puppy August 10, 2016 11:52 AM  

@107 BGKB
Oddly enough BLM doesn't like cops handing out free taxpayer paid ice cream to nigletts either
---

I hope they only had vanilla to hand out

Blogger Were-Puppy August 10, 2016 11:53 AM  

@111 VD

Whoops, didn't realize he was on the edge of a spam, before I commented.

Blogger LurkingPuppy August 10, 2016 2:02 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:What you call "labeling" is exactly and precisely pattern recognition.
Now now, don't be so taxonomist.

dadofhomeschoolers wrote:Do these type of people sometimes have a "protector" above them who absolutely cannot see what they are doing?
I've seen that something like that, but the guy's ‘protector’ was an SJW himself.

Anonymous Sagramore August 10, 2016 8:51 PM  

poisonous

is the new toxic.

Anonymous Sagramore August 10, 2016 8:56 PM  

@59 If you have the patience, trust, but verify. Also consider context. People grow. My fear is to miscategorize someone who is lying from insecurity and pain rather than cold blooded lizard brain thinking. (But I'm usually right.)

Blogger Stephen St. Onge August 10, 2016 11:07 PM  

@39

        That sums up much of the Cold War rather nicely.  The mush heads among the liberals couldn't conceive of the Soviet Union as a ruthless opponent that had to be put down.  Even the hard heads, like St. Harry Truman, had trouble remembering it all the time.

        BTW, the following passage reminds me of something:

"Adversaries who adaptively capture value from the organizations with which they involve themselves are subtler and more complex. Noticing them, and responding effectively, requires a different set of skills than realizing that’s not the IT guy on the phone or that a particular email is a phish."

        In the world of crime, this is the difference between the short con and the long con.  Or perhaps the difference between the long con and the very long con.  As Plato said, the Guardians should treat the common people as a shepherd does his sheep: in a kindly fashion, but with the proper contempt.  They're there to be shorn, and eaten.

        Another passage of interest:

"Sociopaths don’t just take, unless they’re not very good at what they do. Many sociopaths contribute just enough to gain a reputation for being prosocial, and keep their more predatory tendencies hidden until they’ve achieved enough social centrality to be difficult to kick out."

        During the Twenties through the Forties, the Soviet Union went through apparent 'phases' of behavior that in reality were different lines of attack on the same enemy.  During the Popular Front, the Commies joined organizations and worked hard in them, especially at important but under-appreciated jobs.  The apparent leadership posts were frequently filled by non-Communist dupes, and their fantasies were to some extent indulged.  But the key Communist infiltrators could get their way on what they regarded as the really important things.  This period would repay study as a means of anticipating SJW/psychopath tactics.

Blogger Stephen St. Onge August 11, 2016 12:22 AM  

        In re labeling, people are inclined to put things into exclusive, either/or mental categories, when in fact they are frequently continuous spectra.  E.g., people think of "poisons" as that which is always harmful in any quantity, when in reality everything is harmless or beneficial at a low enough dose, and harmful at a high enough dose.  And note well, some people are much more resistant to a poison than others.

        In "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde", Hyde's first appearance is extremely sociopathic.  He bumps into a girl of eight or nine on the street, the girl falls down, and Hyde steps on her rather than break stride.  He just doesn't care about her.  But it's easy to see the spectrum from stepping on her, to stepping around her, to stopping to see if she got up and ignoring her if she was, to helping her up, to showing at least superficial concern for her well-being, to only showing concern if she fell, but ignoring her if she stayed on her feet.

        So the important question isn't so much "Is X a sociopath?" but "How sociopathic is X, and how much harm are they in a position to do?"

Blogger Marsh 01701 August 11, 2016 11:19 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger B.J. August 15, 2016 2:45 PM  

This is interesting, I was just formulating a similar idea in regards to social movements and large groups. Essentially every group has three types of members. The 'Believers' are people who actually believe in the group's ideology and want to spread it. The 'Rubes' are people who don't really care that much about the ideology but like being part of a group. Then the 'Opportunists' are people who are savvy enough to leverage the Believers' zeal to reap money and influence from the Rubes.

The trick is that despite the name the Rubes are actually very aware of when the Opportunists are bullshitting them, so the Believers are required to act as a go-between from the Opportunists to the Rubes. The Believers' passion rings true to the Rubes and is effective in convincing them. Opportunists are also good at reigning in the craziness of the Believers which would scare aware the Rubes.

Or as Heinlein once put it: "Faith is for the congregation, it handicaps a priest."

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