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Friday, August 05, 2016

The prophecy of HP Lovecraft

The Chateau offers up an insightful and prophetic essay by HP Lovecraft on "Americanism" and how it would be used to justify the immigration that has destroyed the American nation:
It is easy to sentimentalise on the subject of “the American spirit”—what it is, may be, or should be. Exponents of various novel political and social theories are particularly given to this practice, nearly always concluding that “true Americanism” is nothing more or less than a national application of their respective individual doctrines.

Slightly less superficial observers hit upon the abstract principle of “Liberty” as the keynote of Americanism, interpreting this justly esteemed principle as anything from Bolshevism to the right to drink 2.75 per cent. beer. “Opportunity” is another favourite byword, and one which is certainly not without real significance. The synonymousness of “America” and “opportunity” has been inculcated into many a young head of the present generation by Emerson via Montgomery’s “Leading Facts of American History.” But it is worthy of note that nearly all would-be definers of “Americanism” fail through their prejudiced unwillingness to trace the quality to its European source. They cannot bring themselves to see that abiogenesis is as rare in the realm of ideas as it is in the kingdom of organic life; and consequently waste their efforts in trying to treat America as if it were an isolated phenomenon without ancestry.

“Americanism” is expanded Anglo-Saxonism. It is the spirit of England, transplanted to a soil of vast extent and diversity, and nourished for a time under pioneer conditions calculated to increase its democratic aspects without impairing its fundamental virtues. It is the spirit of truth, honour, justice, morality, moderation, individualism, conservative liberty, magnanimity, toleration, enterprise, industriousness, and progress—which is England—plus the element of equality and opportunity caused by pioneer settlement. It is the expression of the world’s highest race under the most favourable social, political, and geographical conditions. Those who endeavour to belittle the importance of our British ancestry, are invited to consider the other nations of this continent. All these are equally “American” in every particular, differing only in race-stock and heritage; yet of them all, none save British Canada will even bear comparison with us. We are great because we are a part of the great Anglo-Saxon cultural sphere; a section detached only after a century and a half of heavy colonisation and English rule, which gave to our land the ineradicable stamp of British civilisation.

Most dangerous and fallacious of the several misconceptions of Americanism is that of the so-called “melting-pot” of races and traditions. It is true that this country has received a vast influx of non-English immigrants who come hither to enjoy without hardship the liberties which our British ancestors carved out in toil and bloodshed. It is also true that such of them as belong to the Teutonic and Celtic races are capable of assimilation to our English type and of becoming valuable acquisitions to the population. But, from this it does not follow that a mixture of really alien blood or ideas has accomplished or can accomplish anything but harm....

The main struggle which awaits Americanism is not with reaction, but with radicalism. Our age is one of restless and unintelligent iconoclasm, and abounds with shrewd sophists who use the name “Americanism” to cover attacks on that institution itself. Such familiar terms and phrases as “democracy,” “liberty,” or “freedom of speech” are being distorted to cover the wildest forms of anarchy, whilst our old representative institutions are being attacked as “un-American” by foreign immigrants who are incapable both of understanding them or of devising anything better.
One of the ways we can be certain that our perspective is not only historically sound, but more reflective of reality and predictive of the future is to read the voices of the past whose outlook has subsequently proved correct. HP Lovecraft was absolutely right, the foreign immigrants who came to the United States after 1919 were incapable of understanding the Rights of Englishmen and have proven utterly incapable of devising anything better.

Indeed, through their ahistorical inventions of "the melting pot" and "the proposition nation" and "equality" and "diversity is our strength", they have completely and utterly destroyed that expanded Anglo-Saxonism that briefly made America the greatest, most powerful, and wealthiest nation on Earth.

"America" is not only white, it is, as Lovecraft said, an "expanded Anglo-Saxonism". While other peoples may respect it, admire it, envy it, and seek to emulate it, they have observably been collectively incapable of understanding, adopting, or even preserving it. Through their various redefinitions of "Americanism", America was destroyed.

The United States today is entirely post-American, in much the same way that Europe is post-Christian. The forms remain, but the substance is no longer there. America's hallowed terms and phrases are even emptier than Europe's abandoned churches.

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130 Comments:

Blogger Josh August 05, 2016 8:06 AM  

Rule Britannia!

Blogger Leo Little Book in Shenzhen August 05, 2016 8:08 AM  

A barking shoggoth in every HUD kennel, and atop the Mountains of Madness, Harvard dreams.

Anonymous Bobby Farr August 05, 2016 8:31 AM  

Although he married a jewess, not that it changes the truth of his words. His Anglo-Saxonism was mainstream in the first half of the 20th century, making it all the more remarkable that many whites today struggle to even understand the concept of a ethnic group.

Blogger Phillip George August 05, 2016 8:38 AM  

Jules Verne may have been the prescient science fiction writer of his day but I think social commentary in the Time Machine and the power and strength he found in the Englishman was somehow more impressive. That a Frenchman, son of the Enlightenment, Secularism, rationalism, could look at the quintessential English gentleman with a sense of awed reverence is astounding. His science was overwhelmed, he touched the void, peered in the New Jerusalem. That a Frenchman found the Je ne sais pas in the Englishman across the Channel is more remarkable than anything else Verne wrote. Phileas Fogg, was the man who tamed the world. He had the audacity to take it on.

I source all these things to the second most printed book in history. The Common Prayer Book. History's now most overlooked document. But blood sweat and tears, the Pith hat, stiff upper lip, is never enough.

If Alt Right is to succeed, it's because we ought.

Blogger Cecil Henry August 05, 2016 8:41 AM  

I've always thought 'The Shadow over Innsmouth', 'The Thing in the Doorstep' and 'The Call of Cthulu'
were more than great stories of suspense and horror.

There is an underlying awareness of race, civilization, and the conditions of its defense and decline. Genetics matter in Lovecraft, and woe to those who flaunt it....

Blogger residentMoron August 05, 2016 8:42 AM  

Worth mentioning that Canada also holds the great distinction of having burned Washington DC to the ground.

Americans badly need to do that again.

Blogger VD August 05, 2016 8:49 AM  

Spammed for lying and for attempting to change the subject, Sidhe. I am not the topic here.

Blogger Phillip George August 05, 2016 8:50 AM  

footnote: The English taught Indians to be Englishmen. Who runs I.T. now?

Anonymous Instasetting August 05, 2016 8:51 AM  

The future, if there is a good one, will be led by Texas and the Appalachians. The Yankees have raised new gods to compel others to worship; the Lowlander aristos of Virginia were the first to scorn their poorer brethren a decent wage, and bring in slaves. California is gone nuts.

It is as Lovecraft says....plus the element of equality and opportunity brought by pioneer settlement. He might as well have said the Scotch-Irish.

Anonymous Eduardo August 05, 2016 8:57 AM  

Man this Hewlett-Packard guy is really foraard thinking. So Love-craft is the first Alt-Right? From the post immigration invasion of the 19th Century?

Anonymous Bobby Farr August 05, 2016 9:04 AM  

1919 seems too late as the date to designate for the beginning of the arrival of large numbers of problem immigrants. The Eastern and Southern Europeans were coming in large numbers from the 1880s and the disgust they inspired led to the 1924 Immigration Act.

Blogger tz August 05, 2016 9:05 AM  

Canada might be a good lesson. Few think of it but they've had single payer and bilingualism with Quebec.

Blogger rumpole5 August 05, 2016 9:05 AM  

Lovecraft, and you, are completely on point. Think about it. Other than (maybe) Switzerland, Japan, Iceland, and countries lucky enough to have enjoyed British rule, other countries are inhabited by populations that have repeatedly proved themselves to be incapable of ordered liberty. That certainly includes continental Europe, which has experienced nothing but war after war. The Anglosphere nations really ought to establish a special relationship organization with each other, and limit contact with the rest of the world. Non English folks are just about hopeless in the long run.

Blogger CarpeOro August 05, 2016 9:05 AM  

More accurate than a melting pot would be the idea of a stew. English and Germans are the meat and potatoes the rest is seasoning. What happens when you add too much of any one or even all the seasonings?

Blogger HonorLiving August 05, 2016 9:06 AM  

The United States today is entirely post-American, in much the same way that Europe is post-Christian. The forms remain, but the substance is no longer there. America's hallowed terms and phrases are even emptier than Europe's abandoned churches.

This is why I believe there need to be created some form of organization which will command more loyalty from its members than will the state or the flag. We can already observe these organizations for other groups, the ones having most perfected it being the Muslims.

OpenID basementhomebrewer August 05, 2016 9:14 AM  

Instasetting wrote:The future, if there is a good one, will be led by Texas and the Appalachians. The Yankees have raised new gods to compel others to worship; the Lowlander aristos of Virginia were the first to scorn their poorer brethren a decent wage, and bring in slaves. California is gone nuts.

It is as Lovecraft says....plus the element of equality and opportunity brought by pioneer settlement. He might as well have said the Scotch-Irish.


Pioneering and exploration is the foundation of the west.

Notice that many other cultures just decided to stay put in their own little worlds. This can still be observed today. The far east tends to perfect existing ideas but is slow to create new ones. The mid east is interested in conquest and stagnation of thought.

Africa and south America tend to enjoy fighting over existing resources but do not create or discover new ones.

As America has been more and more populated by these cultures it's trail blazing has noticeably slowed.

Blogger Achilles August 05, 2016 9:14 AM  

Have to agree. I'm Irish and Italian on my Mother's side. Great people. If they were all resurrected they'd vote Trump. But they were outliers. The massive immigration of groups like the Italians and Irish changed American politics. And not for the better.

Not to mention immigrants were used as cannon fodder in a civil war.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus August 05, 2016 9:15 AM  

Absolutely. This is why I am a committed Anglospherist.

Blogger Melampus the Seer August 05, 2016 9:16 AM  

It's a good essay. If you want to read more check out Artists of the Right by Kerry Bolton.

Kerry Bolton's Artists of the Right: Resisting Decadence is a study of ten leading twentieth-century literary artists-including pioneering modernists-who were sympathetic with Fascism and/or National Socialism: D. H. Lawrence, H. P. Lovecraft, Gabriele D'Annunzio, Filippo Marinetti, W. B. Yeats, Knut Hamsun, Ezra Pound, Wyndham Lewis, Henry Williamson, and Roy Campbell. Bolton relates their political commitments to their lives, their art, and their economic, religious, and philosophical convictions. In lucid, driving prose, Kerry Bolton utterly demolishes some of the sturdiest prejudices of the liberal mind.

Blogger JaimeInTexas August 05, 2016 9:18 AM  

"The forms remain, but the substance is no longer there."

I read someone, a long time ago, using the metaphor of a bottle of expensive champagne, where the bottle is the same, the label is the same but the contents have been replaced with something else and cheap.

Blogger Phillip George August 05, 2016 9:18 AM  

They cannot bring themselves to see that abiogenesis is as rare in the realm of ideas as it is in the kingdom of organic life; and consequently waste their efforts

abiogenesis isn't rare. It's fucking impossible. I say this for Mr Rational's benefit in the hope of one day turning him into an Englishman.

See It's Jesus. Sparks of light here and there, yes.

Jules Verne again. That continental pseudo civilized man who helped launch America, couldn't avert his eyes from the Englishman. His future past Universal Man, went to the Far East and rescued the Indian Woman caught in paganism and superstition and married her. The idea was sexual, social and genetic. We win.

Ideas win. Read the bible again. We win.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus August 05, 2016 9:20 AM  

A shameless bit of blogwhoring, if I may, which is actually relevant to the post - America is Not a Propositional State

Blogger Mountain Man August 05, 2016 9:20 AM  

Damn
I sometimes read articles like this and get really depressed. Almost to the point of thinking its all over and not worth continuing the fight.

But persevere we must. To paraphrase Bob Dylan "He not busy fighting ( the good fight) is busy dying"

Blogger tz August 05, 2016 9:23 AM  

The Romans copied from the greeks, and the pre-1919 were asked to act like englishmen.
It is irrelevant even to claim a propositional nation when the proposition is reduced to "be nice" instead of the list of hard virtues.

Its fundamental virtues. It is the spirit of truth, honour, justice, morality, moderation, individualism, conservative liberty, magnanimity, toleration, enterprise, industriousness, and progress...

I cannot think of one person that thinks America is propositional and DEMANDS every one of the above virtues. And even the modern Anglo-Saxons have lost them. Perhaps genes may provide the seeds, but they barely sprout today.

You see the vision in CS Lewis writings on the importance of virtue. Or even Narnia - Aslan didn't come as a lamb (nor can I remember sheep or other herd animals). The witch looked and claimed to be human.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 05, 2016 9:36 AM  

On one hand we know the Blank Slate Theory to be a fraud, that is the good news, but the bad news is that what passes for an establishment it is the official touch stone that all respectable ideologies, values and principles must connect.

If you Christians loath the notion of Evolution will you accept the term Good Breeding?

Blogger Nate August 05, 2016 9:38 AM  

oh... that's why the liberals hate him so much.

Blogger Phillip George August 05, 2016 9:49 AM  

Mr MantraMan, everything physical is very degenerate, inbreed, entropy increased, heat/ information decaying. Just go into any reputable laboratory and do the abiogenesis experiments. The hard yards physical experiments. You have inherited lies.

Some ethnicities might be less inbred than others. So what? IQ doesn't cut it.

Evolution doesn't happen unless you want to reduce it only to adaptation, acclimatization. And an Englishman is someone who grew up with a Sovereign protecting and defending the Protestant Reformed Religion just up until when Jesus returns for the Throne. The Orb with the Cross on it is held as a symbol of occupy till He comes. It's the United Kingdom's three crosses. England is Christianity, legally binding. Every other opinion is ultra vires.

Blogger Sam Lively August 05, 2016 9:51 AM  

A lot of this Americanism as expanded Anglo-Saxonism makes sense, but how do you explain the distinctly un-American nature of all the other Anglo-Saxon nations, particularly the mother country?

I don't know a great deal about the immigration histories of the UK and Canada, but today the UK and Canada are well to the left of the US and have been for awhile. Seems to me that a lot of Anglo-Saxons, maybe most, have been willing to give up on the rights of Englishmen.

Immigration has unquestionably transformed America, but I wonder if we're not giving enough credit to the Anglo-Saxons for embracing decadence, delusion and decline on their own.

Blogger residentMoron August 05, 2016 9:53 AM  

Don't be trolling the atheist, now.

Blogger praetorian August 05, 2016 9:54 AM  

OT: normie-friendly red pill on the lügenpresse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc5p5mD08D4&feature=youtu.be

Anonymous Mr. Rational August 05, 2016 9:59 AM  

Phillip George wrote:abiogenesis isn't rare. It's fucking impossible. I say this for Mr Rational's benefit in the hope of one day turning him into an Englishman.
Meanwhile in the real world, amino acids are known to have formed in deep space.  There was no life out there to make them; they are literally abiogenetic.  The stuff of life is ubiquitous everywhere that chemical conditions allow it to exist.

See It's Jesus.
You wonder why people turn away from your religion?  It's because any so-called "god" which contradicts the hard physical evidence of the universe and its history is OBVIOUSLY false.  The logic is inescapable.

All you are doing is making yourself even more contemptible.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus August 05, 2016 10:04 AM  

Meanwhile in the real world, amino acids are known to have formed in deep space. There was no life out there to make them; they are literally abiogenetic. The stuff of life is ubiquitous everywhere that chemical conditions allow it to exist.

Amino acids aren't alive. They're simply chemicals, just as methanol, acetic acid, and oxalic acid are. Because amino acids aren't alive, they cannot even qualify as "abiogenesis" from a strictly lexical or philological standpoint.

You wonder why people turn away from your religion? It's because any so-called "god" which contradicts the hard physical evidence of the universe and its history is OBVIOUSLY false. The logic is inescapable.

Good grief, what an idiotic argument. This, from a guy who doesn't even know enough science to know what "abiogenesis" even is.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 05, 2016 10:07 AM  

Some of the most fundamental Christians are to be found in agriculture and they literally spend their careers talking about genetics and breeding

Yes a pig is a pig, but the changes forced onto the species is somewhat incredible, but of course if you worship words well then you worship words

Blogger praetorian August 05, 2016 10:09 AM  

There was no life out there to make them; they are literally abiogenetic.

> building blocks of life form in literal vacuum
> therefore there is no god

Ayooooo lmfedorao

OpenID denektenorsk August 05, 2016 10:09 AM  

If one wants an example of a propositional nation held together by bribes (both political and massive transfusions of cash) look at Canada WRT Quebec. "A nation within a nation" and there is generally no love lost on either side.

If we play the word association game when someone says "Quebec" I think "whiny bitches". The amount of political discourse, money, laws and just general time spent on trying to make the perpetually dissatisfied even remotely content is staggering. If you want some amusement look up Bill 101 (i.e. the Language Laws). Taken to its full absurdity we have "Pasta Gate" http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/eight-months-after-pastagate-quebec-language-watchdog-revamps-its-approach-to-complaints/article14933990/

$24 million / year and that is the outcome. In other absurdity if an English speaker wants to order products from outside the province they must have bilingual packaging otherwise it is illegal. This is enforced by large retailers such as Best Buy. Presumably this is to protect the delivery persons fragile sensibilities?

Over the past decades the rest of Canada has implemented "French Emersion" courses from primary school on up (to support unity of the diversity). The net result is grades have fallen on average by 5 points because most parents cannot help their kids with homework in French. My niece reads better in French than she does in her mother tongue (English). As a result my spawn goes to an English private school... and even then you can't avoid the foolishness.

I, being from ROC ("Rest of Canada") support Quebec Separation - if only so I don't have to listen to them anymore. I hope to live to see it.

Anonymous Spartacus xxxxx August 05, 2016 10:16 AM  

Bobby Farr wrote:1919 seems too late as the date to designate for the beginning of the arrival of large numbers of problem immigrants. The Eastern and Southern Europeans were coming in large numbers from the 1880s and the disgust they inspired led to the 1924 Immigration Act.

Check out "Bill the Butcher" from a comment on the CH article.
This scene from Gangs of New York would have been in the early 1850's- https://youtu.be/iJNFnYPJHWA?t=27

"my father...you think I'm gonna help you befoul his legacy?"

Blogger Mountain Man August 05, 2016 10:16 AM  

@35
Having lived and worked among the French Canucks my whole life, I can say very few here in the states have the level of work ethic that they do.
From 3am to 800pm they will be out there in deep snow and zero degree temps., slaying wood.
But they are a very arrogant, insular and balky bunch.

Blogger Melampus the Seer August 05, 2016 10:18 AM  

I cannot think of one person that thinks America is propositional and DEMANDS every one of the above virtues.

Exactly. If America is a propositional nation,why aren't we deporting people who do not adhere to those propositions? Why do we allow immigration of peoples who explicitly declare opposition to the putative American propositions, i.e. Muslims?

Makes no sense.

Blogger Leo Little Book in Shenzhen August 05, 2016 10:21 AM  

If you Christians loath the notion of Evolution will you accept the term Good Breeding?

I doubt the God who cloned Eve hates biology. Or blondes.

everything physical is very degenerate

What are the odds of a tornado in a junkyard assembling a snowflake?

I'm thankful the Holocaust permitted my half-Ashkenazi grandfather to be adopted by noble English parents.

Anonymous The Ramones August 05, 2016 10:22 AM  

"The massive immigration of groups like the Italians and Irish changed American politics. And not for the better."

The Anglo-Saxons permitted them to arrive, then spat and pissed and shat all over them when they did. Had they not done this, Tammany Hall and machine politics would have been unnecessary.

The other option would have been simply not allowing them to arrive, a perfectly defensible move. But the Anglos no longer wanted to dirty their hands with canal digging and brick laying.

I recall Lothrop Stoddard undermining the question in one of the best rhetorical chess moves I can think of...

PROGRESSIVES: We must bring in all these immigrants! Otherwise, who will help us develop this vast continent?

STODDARD: Why are you in such a rush to develop this vast continent so quickly? Let's develop it at our own pace, by our own people, for our own people. There's no need to rush about it.

These days we urgently need more Latinos to... operate leaf blowers. "Daddy, my race, my language, and my heritage are in ruins because of you!" "Yes, but all those leaves got blown from the sidewalk into the street. It was worth it."


Anonymous Moonbear August 05, 2016 10:24 AM  

Hehe, I love how you Anglo's forget the Nordics, but you have been ruled by Nordics since the first king of England. :)
Maybe there is a connection between the loss of Kings and the invasion of would be rulers?

Anonymous karsten August 05, 2016 10:25 AM  

"through their ahistorical inventions of "the melting pot" and "the proposition nation" and "equality" and "diversity is our strength", they have completely and utterly destroyed that expanded Anglo-Saxonism that briefly made America the greatest, most powerful, and wealthiest nation on Earth."

Worth watching this brief video interview. In it, a filmmaker makes the exact same point, in the context of Hollywood: -- except, of course, with a note of triumphalism in his voice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7--FG8o57WI

Blogger Ostar August 05, 2016 10:25 AM  

The World Fantasy Award dropped Lovecraft's bust as the prize last year because of "Racism" - in other words, for "speaking the Truth".

Anonymous fred August 05, 2016 10:27 AM  

"Having lived and worked among the French Canucks my whole life"

Well, "Maggie Cassidy" was a fine book. So there's that.

"Why do we allow immigration of peoples who explicitly declare opposition to the putative American propositions, i.e. Muslims?

Makes no sense."

(((Makes no sense.)))

FIFY

Anonymous Sidhe August 05, 2016 10:31 AM  

Vox, a conclusion based on observation can be incorrect without being a lie.

But I stand by it.

Blogger Quadko August 05, 2016 10:40 AM  

I thoroughly enjoy these posts. While I disagree in some details - I think intelligence matters less, as multiplier rather than a predictor of success or failure, and that the Anglo-saxon culture of classic England is more the focus than genetics (plenty of genetic A-S's fail when they take on other cultures) - talking about the issue and the point is very important. I love the general focus on civilization - growing and preserving in the midst of barbarian assault and observed civilization decay.

My favorite lesson so far is how truly unique the freedom and success of the slowly developed concept and rights of the English free man has been in history. I had a preexisting notion of one of God's overall purposes through the history is Godly freedom contrasted with Satanic slavery of the human race; I was previously under the ignorant impression that there had been more freedoms at various times and places in the past, but when these discussions sparked reading more history, it really isn't so. And hard freedoms are so easily lost in the rare times they have been won.

Keep thinking and writing!

Blogger VD August 05, 2016 10:48 AM  

But I stand by it.

You're taking a totally false position on the basis of complete ignorance. And you're totally off-topic. Don't do it again.

That goes for you too, Phillip George. If you can't knock off your "every topic is an excuse to talk about Jesus" schtick, you'll be banned. Many, many readers, most of them Christian, have asked me to shut you up because you're so predictably tedious.

If you can't keep yourself on topic, I will.

Blogger John S August 05, 2016 10:49 AM  

I've always thought 'The Shadow over Innsmouth', 'The Thing in the Doorstep' and 'The Call of Cthulu'
were more than great stories of suspense and horror.

There is an underlying awareness of race, civilization, and the conditions of its defense and decline. Genetics matter in Lovecraft, and woe to those who flaunt it....


Not to mention At the Mountains of Madness. Maybe my favorite of his stories. The ancient aliens should have picked their own damn cotton...

Anonymous Tad August 05, 2016 10:54 AM  

"the foreign immigrants who came to the United States after 1919 were incapable of understanding the Rights of Englishmen"

But what about their progeny? Surely they embraced the principles of the rights of Englishmen. Scalia, a son of an italian immigrant seemed to appreciate the Constitution.

Frank Zamboni, son of an italian immigrant, surely embraced the industriousness that is so American.

Frank Arpio Sheriff in Arizona and son of Italian immigrants, surely understands the English concept of the rule of law.

Cardinal Bernadin, son of Italian immigrants, surely understood the Americans' embrace of faith.

Mario Puzo, author and son of Italian immigrant, wrote the quintessential novel exploring assimilation of Italians. Sure his contribution amounts to a successful embrace of americanism.

Joe DiMaggio, son of italian immigrants, surely embraced the American principles of competition and modesty.

No, There is no question that immigrants' progeny fully embraced Americanism and the rights of Englishmen that underlie Americanism.

And finally, please don't forget the way Gay Jews have fully embraced Americanism and the rights of Englishmen.

Blogger Were-Puppy August 05, 2016 10:59 AM  

OP gets 5/5 HPL Bust awards

I've got these two volumes of the correspondence between HPL and Robert E Howard. It is quite fascinating to read these two various thoughts on all manner of things. One of the themes that REH was bringing out a lot was that he thought barbarism would ultimately win out against civilization, because the civilizations always become corrupt and decadent, and lose that survival spark (my interpretation :P)

Great post, and I hope your diagnosis is wrong.

Blogger tz August 05, 2016 11:01 AM  

We forgot the melting pot poured into an injection mold.

Catholicism has had to adopt many cultures. so has many saints. Each have different virtues.

Each ethnicity and culture emphasizes different virtues. Saxons want the rule of law, Italians ignore law. There can be a virtue of justice in each, but they are not compatible and you will have a better economy with fixed, known, rules you expect people will obey. Even English vs Roman law.

America used to demand the specific set of virtues, and many immigrants went back. A land flowing with milk and honey is no place for a lactose intolerant diabetic.

Blogger Were-Puppy August 05, 2016 11:04 AM  

@8 Phillip George

footnote: The English taught Indians to be Englishmen. Who runs I.T. now?
---

This is good? It's like saying the British put us all out of a job.

Blogger VD August 05, 2016 11:08 AM  

I did not "claim" anything, Sidhe. I stated an easily proven fact. Now, for the second time, drop it. You're off-topic.

Blogger Were-Puppy August 05, 2016 11:08 AM  


@13 rumpole5

The Anglosphere nations really ought to establish a special relationship organization with each other, and limit contact with the rest of the world.
---

It seems this would work with a few tweaks first.

1) Get the USA out of the business of globalism.
2) Complete the extraction of the UK from EU.
3) Canada has Quebec to deal with still.
4) No clue about Australia, NZ or others.

Blogger praetorian August 05, 2016 11:11 AM  

Hehe, I love how you Anglo's forget the Nordics

We wuz vikangs

Blogger Were-Puppy August 05, 2016 11:12 AM  

@17 Achilles

Not to mention immigrants were used as cannon fodder in a civil war.
---

Sometimes I wonder if that's not part of a current underlying plan.

Blogger Leo Little Book in Shenzhen August 05, 2016 11:13 AM  

If Americanism can be done anywhere, by anyone, then immigrants should have no problem doing it elsewhere.

Which is the wise place to be, when the Anglo Saxon begins to hate.

"But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, 'This is the heir. Come, let's kill him and take his inheritance.'"

Anonymous BigGayKoranBurner August 05, 2016 11:22 AM  

but how do you explain the distinctly un-American nature of all the other Anglo-Saxon nations, particularly the mother country?

When was the last time England kicked jews out for corrupting it?

I think intelligence matters less, as multiplier rather than a predictor of success or failure, and that the Anglo-saxon culture of classic England is more the focus

By lynching the worst 1% for thousands of years prevents having a society where 2 non Asian minorities use Fresno ambulances as taxies 1363 times in one year, at a cost to taxpayers/society exponentially higher than what you contribute. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002307983

Anonymous Jack Amok August 05, 2016 11:24 AM  

. America's hallowed terms and phrases are even emptier than Europe's abandoned churches.

"It's a free country."
"Don't make a Federal case out of it."

I used to hears those a lot when I was a kid. Don't hear them much anymore. It's just too obvious they don't apply anymore for people to keep using them.

A lot of this Americanism as expanded Anglo-Saxonism makes sense, but how do you explain the distinctly un-American nature of all the other Anglo-Saxon nations, particularly the mother country?

Anglo-Saxon Americans are descended from men who gave up all they had and knew to sail a leaky bundle of sticks across a storm-filled ocean for the chance carve a better life out of a wilderness filled with savages and subject to brutal weather. The English are descended from the ones who stayed behind.

Plus, much of what was left of the adventuresome spirit in England died in Flander's Field. They've had a pretty severe drain on the best part of their gene pool.

Even for all that, I don't how much longer we'll be able to say they're to the Left of America. They're showing some signs of recovery (and remember, England is not Scotland, and the Scottish voters push things very hard left).

Blogger Latigo3 August 05, 2016 11:25 AM  

Well, as someone who came to the USA in 1970, learning about the English history of our country has been enriching. I love talking to people about the Magna Carta and they have no clue what it is. I have read more Shakespeare and the works of other dead Englishmen in my adulthood than I did in high-school and I am a better man for it.

I must agree though, that most of the people that have been here for a few generations have no clue where the foundations for their laws and freedoms came from. Most of them have never read the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution.
As the WASPs' move away and die off, I see an ever increasing ignorance.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 05, 2016 11:26 AM  

Phillip George wrote:footnote: The English taught Indians to be Englishmen.
The hell they did. Not only did it not happen, it's not even remotely possible. Indian society is based in social cowardice.
What they have done is import a bunch of Indians and Pakis to shit all over England.

Blogger Were-Puppy August 05, 2016 11:27 AM  

@43 Ostar
The World Fantasy Award dropped Lovecraft's bust as the prize last year because of "Racism" - in other words, for "speaking the Truth".
---

Yes, it did.

http://sjwlist.com/Category:WFA_Lovecraft_Controversy

Anonymous Giant Jim August 05, 2016 11:28 AM  

American is becoming post-christian too, I think, albeit they are nowhere near the levels seen in Europe.

Anonymous Mr. Rational August 05, 2016 11:29 AM  

Long, OT rebuttal to PG deleted, but:

praetorian wrote:> building blocks of life form in literal vacuum

> therefore there is no god

When the Genesis story has to be re-written to remove the references to non-existent windows of heaven, it's obvious that some people were faking it all along.

Blogger Leo Little Book in Shenzhen August 05, 2016 11:29 AM  

It's immoral to force millions of browns to travel thousands of miles to reach Whiteopia instead of simply sending a few hundred Anglo soldiers and administrators the other way.

Blogger ZaijiaN August 05, 2016 11:31 AM  

Melampus the Seer wrote:I cannot think of one person that thinks America is propositional and DEMANDS every one of the above virtues.

Exactly. If America is a propositional nation,why aren't we deporting people who do not adhere to those propositions? Why do we allow immigration of peoples who explicitly declare opposition to the putative American propositions, i.e. Muslims?


Somewhere in this concept is an absolute gem of a rhetorical point.

I'm struggling to think of a pithy enough way to say it that doesn't devolve into dialectic, though.

OpenID denektenorsk August 05, 2016 11:32 AM  

@37 I too have worked with some very hard working and intelligent French Canadians. That doesnt mean that Quebec as "a nation within a nation" hasn't cause a metric arse ton of political problems ever since the English didn't deport them (like they did with the Acadians who wouldn't swear fealty to the crown).

Look up the FLQ, in particular: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Crisis

Anonymous Moonbear August 05, 2016 11:33 AM  

@51 tz
Saxons want the rule of law, Italians ignore law.
That is not entirely accurate, the Italians invented the rule of law to start with.
Secondly the Saxons are much more lax about their laws than the Germanic's, so the Saxons fall somewhere in between.

@54 Were-Puppy
The Anglosphere nations really ought to establish a special relationship organization with each other, and limit contact with the rest of the world.
And let Europe, Scandinavia and Russia unite? Surely that can only end in disaster for the "Anglosphere" as they would no doubt rule.
Like it or not Europe is the seat of power in the world, always has been.
The only thing stopping world domination is the split between Russia and Europe, a split that is rapidly vanishing due to Obama's disastrous presidency.
If you think the anglo countries can stand against the might of Europe and Russia you are sorely mistaken, they are smarter, more numerous and have less enemies in the world. It took the combined force of the British Empire, French Empire, Scandinavia and USSR to stop the Germans last time.

Just because the USA had German and eastern European scientists working for them in the last half century does not mean they are more innovative, the USA owes everything it has accomplished to European brainpower.
Don't forget that, don't be stupid.

Blogger CarpeOro August 05, 2016 11:34 AM  

@41

Never heard Alfred the Great called a Nordic, but maybe your working from a different perspective.

Blogger residentMoron August 05, 2016 11:34 AM  

Speaking of
Cthulhu and religion.

Blogger David Power August 05, 2016 11:40 AM  



@4 Philip George

Thanks for that, I have often pondered over why so many of the heroes in Jules Verne's stories are English.

Another Frenchman into rationalism, Voltaire, also greatly admired the English; "How I love the English for their boldness." "I love the way the English say what they think!”

He was also said to be very impressed to witness an Admiral of the Fleet in the Royal Navy being executed by firing squad on the quarterdeck of his own Flagship for refusing to engage the enemy. Something that would have been inconceivable within the French Navy. [Not the refusing but the executing lol]

Voltaire was also taken by the fact that the Admiral, Admiral Byng, requested and was granted the privilege of signalling when his executioners should fire, by dropping his own hanker chief.

Ahh. We have lost much.

The execution of Admiral Byng: http://www.executedtoday.com/2010/03/14/1757-admiral-john-byng/

Blogger Were-Puppy August 05, 2016 11:43 AM  

@67 ZaijiaN

I'm struggling to think of a pithy enough way to say it that doesn't devolve into dialectic, though.
---

The visual should be of the probably once beautiful bay in Rio contrasted with the refuse and corpse filled place that it is now.

An exponential version of the turd in the punch bowl.

Blogger S1AL August 05, 2016 11:47 AM  

"Like it or not Europe is the seat of power in the world, always has been."

Hahahahahahaha.

You're funny.

Blogger James August 05, 2016 11:47 AM  

I was just telling someone that I thought America was dead and could not be fixed, but only resurrected. As a Christian I believe in resurrections, but I'm not sure they apply to moribund civilizations. So I hope for the best and prepare for the worst, which I believe would be the Werewolf Apocalypse. Hey, if we can have a Zombie Apocalypse, why not a Werewolf Apocalypse? If it happens I can melt down the silver I've been stacking for bullets and I'm all set.

Blogger John S August 05, 2016 11:48 AM  

Something Molyneux said a while back keeps occurring to me; the immigrants could pretty easily just adopt the United States Constitution and Bill of Rights and translate them into whatever gibberish they speak where they're from, since it's just a proposition, right? It's not like these are secret documents.

I believe that actually happened in Argentina, and didn't work for very long.

It's almost like we aren't all equal after all…

Blogger praetorian August 05, 2016 11:53 AM  

it's obvious that some people were faking it all along.

It's time to listen, Ilk...

Blogger Gaiseric August 05, 2016 11:56 AM  

Moonbear wrote:Hehe, I love how you Anglo's forget the Nordics, but you have been ruled by Nordics since the first king of England. :)
Not at all. Nobody doubts that the Vikings in general and the Normans in particular are an integral component during the ethnogenesis of "the English." Anglo-Saxon isn't meant to be interpreted quite so literally; it's often used as a shorthand for "English"—particularly by writers of Lovecraft's generation.

Blogger Leo Little Book in Shenzhen August 05, 2016 11:57 AM  

ZaijiaN wrote:I'm struggling to think of a pithy enough way to say it that doesn't devolve into dialectic, though.

America is a propositional nation: a free no-strings-attached blindfolded one night stand at Ellis Island with blonde Lady Liberty.

"Promise you love me."

Blogger VD August 05, 2016 11:59 AM  

If America is a proposition, there is absolutely no need for any immigrant to come here. He can be born an American in Portugal and live in America over there.

The concept is blitheringly stupid. It has no basis in fact or history, it can't stand up to even a cursory logical examination, and it has had observably terrible consequences.

It's as indefensible as communism or feminism.

Blogger David Power August 05, 2016 12:00 PM  

@Latigo3

Does the Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

Tony Handcock

Blogger VD August 05, 2016 12:00 PM  

Nobody doubts that the Vikings in general and the Normans in particular are an integral component during the ethnogenesis of "the English."

Geneticists do. The English are far less Scandinavian than anyone imagined.

Anonymous Frankenstein McBadperson August 05, 2016 12:03 PM  

"Like it or not Europe is the seat of power in the world, always has been."

Um, China is on line 2, they'd like to have a word with you.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 05, 2016 12:05 PM  

H. P. Lovecraft was alt-Right before alt-Right was cool.

Blogger VFM #7634 August 05, 2016 12:06 PM  

I think the Scotch-Irish element in the American population is just as important as the English element; maybe even more in some ways.

I do agree that British ancestry does appear to have some insulation against cuckery. In the GOP primaries, Trump got the lowest support in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Utah. And the Upper Midwest just happens to have the lowest proportion of British ancestry in the country. (Granted, Mormons are heavily English, but they have other flaws.)

footnote: The English taught Indians to be Englishmen. Who runs I.T. now?

@8 Philip George
You mean, who gets hired to write Hindu bloatware rather than well-crafted software because they're cheaper than white Americans?

A lot of this Americanism as expanded Anglo-Saxonism makes sense, but how do you explain the distinctly un-American nature of all the other Anglo-Saxon nations, particularly the mother country?

@28 Sam Lively
Interesting question. Personally, I'd chalk it up to heavy European influence, which is something that wouldn't affect the U.S. as much. And Scottish leftoidery could be "stick it to the English" syndrome, a milder version of the attitude that U.S. blacks have.

Anonymous Frankenstein McBadperson August 05, 2016 12:06 PM  

"and it has had observably terrible consequences."

Well that's been the plan all along, eh wot.

"It's as indefensible as (((communism))) or (((feminism.)))"

Well whaddaya know!

Blogger David Power August 05, 2016 12:12 PM  

Apologies for being off topic but I'm in a debate on another site and the question: What percentage of the world's population are non-White? That's including Italians, Spaniards etc.

Any Ideas anyone?

Anonymous Jack Amok August 05, 2016 12:19 PM  

Geneticists do. The English are far less Scandinavian than anyone imagined.

Culturally, the Anglo-Saxons absorbed the Normans. Which shouldn't be surprising. Most circa 10th C observers thought the English to have the highest culture in all of Europe. There was already a literary tradition in England when William invaded, but France didn't develop such a thing until French works started appearing in England, written by French-speaking Normans who picked up the idea from the Anglo-Saxons.

But the Anglo-Saxons were already a mixture of Germanic tribes, including Scandinavians, well before that. England was a "propositional" nation, but one forged out of genetically compatible people. And Christianity had a big role in that.

Blogger Unknown August 05, 2016 12:28 PM  

It is the spirit of truth, honour, justice, morality, moderation, individualism, conservative liberty, magnanimity, toleration, enterprise, industriousness, and progress—which is England

This was never England. It was only what intellectual xenophobes envisioned it to be. In reality it was full of aristocratic hypocrisy, political conservatism, clandestine business dealings, graft, bribery, scandal, judicial privilege, excess, idleness, condescension, penury, poverty, pedantry and pettiness.

It's no surprise that Lovecraft, while a great writer, was a thoroughly godless nihilist who died in poverty relatively young (46). Interestingly, before he died he started believing in cultural assimilation as well as preservation of Anglo-Saxon bloodlines, marrying an 'assimilated' Jewish woman before the end of his rather hopeless and indeterminate life.

"America" is not only white, it is, as Lovecraft said, an "expanded Anglo-Saxonism". While other peoples may respect it, admire it, envy it, and seek to emulate it, they have observably been collectively incapable of understanding, adopting, or even preserving it. Through their various redefinitions of "Americanism", America was destroyed

America may have been white at one stage, but it certainly isn't white now, and if it was already destroyed there's nothing left to fight for.

Blogger VD August 05, 2016 12:31 PM  

America may have been white at one stage, but it certainly isn't white now, and if it was already destroyed there's nothing left to fight for.

Where do you think homogeneous nations come from in the first place? There is plenty for everyone to fight for, and fight they will. That's how heterogeneous polities always end.

Anonymous Frankenstein McBadperson August 05, 2016 12:36 PM  

"America may have been white at one stage, but it certainly isn't white now"

It also isn't America now, that's sort of the point.

"and if it was already destroyed there's nothing left to fight for."

Nothing? Ummm, the best real estate on the planet isn't worth fighting for? One can always start over, and rebuild, once the termites have been fumigated.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus August 05, 2016 12:38 PM  

Where do you think homogeneous nations come from in the first place? There is plenty for everyone to fight for, and fight they will. That's how heterogeneous polities always end.

Let's not forget that white's - and mostly non-SJW whites at that - are the ones with the guns.

The Left can put their hopes in the police and the military putting down any potential insurrection by whites, but this becomes increasingly unlikely with each passing day.

Do they really think the local and state police who keep getting mau-maued and accused of "black genocide" and shot at are going to do much to prevent such an uprising? The Feds maybe will try - but they don't have the manpower to handle the attrition for long.

What about the military? While it still has a lot of toys, it's also demoralised and increasingly and purposefully being weakened. The whites in the military are not likely to be enthusiastic about shooting their fathers and brothers in flyover country, and the Mexican't mercenaries and gangbangers aren't competent enough to sustain effective combat operations for long, even against a civilian population and even with all the fancy gadgets they have access to.

And it's not like a black market has never sprung up to supply advanced weaponry to 4GW insurgents or anything...

Blogger praetorian August 05, 2016 12:54 PM  

In reality it was full of aristocratic hypocrisy, political conservatism, clandestine business dealings, graft, bribery, scandal, judicial privilege, excess, idleness, condescension, penury, poverty, pedantry and pettiness.

So, human then?

if it was already destroyed there's nothing left to fight for.

Perhaps. Better kill yourself, just to make sure.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 05, 2016 1:02 PM  

David Power wrote:What percentage of the world's population are non-White? That's including Italians, Spaniards etc.


Conventionally it's around 80%.
Not clear which side is including the Italians and Spaniards in your question. The wogs start at Calais,as the old saying goes.

Blogger LP9 Solidified in Gold! Rin Integra August 05, 2016 1:02 PM  

So wonderful, so...dialectic not emo or rhetoric, this is why I remain in support of our men, our women whom know the higher thinking -

We must support our Game Theorists, PUA's, MRA's - they are trying to help - they are trying to save one mind at a time for the sake of wes-civ. or western civilization of helping foster normalcy among relations between the sexes.

I call a time to prayer for the work Chateau and so many others are doing regarding this specific topic. It overall has grieved me to repeat too much of post american't times, I wish I didn't use that language from day one but its clear regarding econ, to societal decline, feminism, immigration the untenable aspect of PC.

Blogger American Spartan August 05, 2016 1:18 PM  

Something Molyneux said a while back keeps occurring to me; the immigrants could pretty easily just adopt the United States Constitution and Bill of Rights and translate them into whatever gibberish they speak where they're from, since it's just a proposition, right? It's not like these are secret documents.

I believe that actually happened in Argentina, and didn't work for very long.

It's almost like we aren't all equal after all…



Link to that video? Anyone know which one he said that?

Blogger ZaijiaN August 05, 2016 1:25 PM  

A minor epiphany:

The schism in American Christianity over the Trump Candidacy (specifically immigration) is directly related to the unconscious conflation of Christian identity and American identity.

The appeal of the American proposition nation is very strong to American Christians because it parallels how they see Christian salvation.

Christian identity is wholly found in being adopted by God through Christ, but despite this fact many Christians also find part of their identity in their virtues. The American proposition nation claims the American identity is tied to a similar list of virtues.

So there is a subconscious (and incorrect) connection made between Christianity and Americanism in their minds. This also informs their reticence in voting for Trump; the act of voting for them is an act of worship, of communion, of identification - as opposed to an act of management, of governance.

Breaking the concept of the American proposition nation may then break the chains that bind them (at an emotional level) from voting for Trump.

Blogger Were-Puppy August 05, 2016 1:38 PM  

@69 Moonbear August 05, 2016 11:33 AM
@51 tz
Saxons want the rule of law, Italians ignore law.
---

I think you mistook a quote as my comment. I put in some thoughts to ideas I had that would be internal problems for such an alliance.

Your thoughts are more of external problems to such an alliance.

Anonymous SciVo August 05, 2016 1:44 PM  

rumpole5 wrote:The Anglosphere nations really ought to establish a special relationship organization with each other, and limit contact with the rest of the world. Non English folks are just about hopeless in the long run.

Yes. Our intelligence services already implicitly understand this, with the Cold War creation of the SigInt-sharing Five Eyes: Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the United States. I have said before that if we want to make a multilateral trade pact, it should be among those Anglosphere nations that already have a special trust relationship, not alien cultures like Mexico and China that have no love for anything about us but our money.

Blogger Were-Puppy August 05, 2016 1:52 PM  

https://i.imgflip.com/185zti.jpg

I didn't think about it consciously when I made this, but Hellary definitely has that "Innsmouth look".

Anybody else notice that gaping hole in xer tongue?

Blogger Herb Nowell August 05, 2016 2:17 PM  

the foreign immigrants who came to the United States after 1919 were incapable of understanding the Rights of Englishmen and have proven utterly incapable of devising anything better.

I will admit to some confusion as to where exactly your boundaries of those who fit would be American are.

I'm used to seeing you say post 18th century immigration not post 19th. Also, at least some recent posts seem to imply that white in terms of our national character is specifically Anglo-Saxon and excluded even the Irish much less continental sources.

Looking at 18th century and earlier settlement I see English, Scots, and Scots-Irish as the predominant groups. There was, however, a significant German Protestant, Dutch, and French Protestant presence in some states.

Based on that it appear to me that white in terms of the 1790 would include those whose family had origins in the British Islands, France, the Netherlands (including Belgium which was part of the Netherlands in the colonial period and could arguably include Luxembourg), and the western portions of modern Germany.

I would say the interesting distinction among the non-English, Welsh, and Scottish populations is all are Protestant in religion. In fact they were not just Protestant but mainly Reformed. The Irish were mostly Scots-Irish Presbyterians, the Dutch were Dutch Reformed, and the French were Huguenot. I have not done enough research yet to be sure of the breakdowns on the Germans.

Even the English are arguably more Reformed than not. High Church Anglican, which at the time was the more Catholic part of the Church of England, split Tory during the Revolution. Low Church Anglicans had a strong Reform component. This opposition to the High Church Anglicans is the origin of the religious test prohibition for public office in the Constitution. In the United Kingdom Low Church officeholders had to routinely receive High Church communion to continue to hold office.

Could an essential test of whiteness, in terms of the immigration acts prior to the Civil War, be not just geographical origin but Reform Protestantism? Given the reviled by the history taught since at least the 70s reviled the Know-Nothings of the 1850s for their opposition to Catholic immigrants I suspect this is another one of those questions we're not supposed to ask that is highly important in understanding the first half-century of the United States under the Constitution.

If America is a propositional nation,why aren't we deporting people who do not adhere to those propositions?

This, to my mind, is the single biggest disproof of the propositional nation idea. In fact, any nation where citizenship is awarded from birth can be propositional. For a propositional nation to exist it would have to be exclusively formed of adults who made a specific and intentional act to embrace said propositions.

Interestingly such a nation could only be composed of adults. It would resemble a group of Masonic Lodges more than anyplace on Earth.

What, American, arguably has been at some points in the past is a nation more open to adopting those who "get" the family as reflected in the Naturalization Acts. As language is important we should note the acts prior to the Civil War were Naturalization Acts and only after became Immigration Acts. The former term is much narrower and demanding. Naturalization implies bringing into alignment with something natural such as the nature of the nation. Immigration merely implies a change in geography.

Anonymous Frankenstein McBadperson August 05, 2016 2:26 PM  

"The wogs start at Calais,as the old saying goes."

Right now, ironically, the wogs really ARE starting at Calais. Rule, Britannia! (Heh heh, what goes around comes around, fuckers.)

"For a propositional nation to exist it would have to be exclusively formed of adults who made a specific and intentional act to embrace said propositions."

THIRD WORLD IMMIGRANT: Yes, yes, yes. Sure, fine, whatever. I heartily agree to whatever proposition you want me to agree to, okay? Now, when do I start getting clean running water and free stuff? When can I start clogging your public schools with my 15 children? Where's the free dental care? And most importantly, when can I start importing my entire extended family, so they can get all that stuff too? We promise to agree to whatever your proposition is. Yes yes yes, we love democracy, and that statue. Trust us. Now... where's the free stuff?

Anonymous Ain August 05, 2016 2:33 PM  

@26 "oh... that's why the liberals hate him so much."

If this is his "racism" for which the SJWs want him purged, they lack the comprehensive skills of small children. And the bar was already so low.

Blogger Herb Nowell August 05, 2016 2:38 PM  

@41: Hehe, I love how you Anglo's forget the Nordics, but you have been ruled by Nordics since the first king of England. :)

Not quite the first. Athelstan, the first king of all the English, was of the Wessex dynasty which had removed Nordic rule in England beginning with his grandfather Alfred. Athelstan was king in the early 10th century.

The Danegeld wasn't even paid until the reign of his great nephew Athelred who was the sixth king after Athelstan (who was succeeded by two of his brothers, then two nephews through his brother Edmund, then by two great nephews through his nephew Edgar). It was Athelstan who was displaced by Sweyn Forkbeard only to succeed him and at that point the English had been united under one crown for 86 years.

Blogger Herb Nowell August 05, 2016 2:43 PM  

@66: I'm struggling to think of a pithy enough way to say it that doesn't devolve into dialectic, though.

A first pass:

If American is propositional nation why is Obama considered a natural citizen eligible to be President instead of deported based on his own statements rejection those propositions.

Plenty of other politicians and celebrities can be substituted for Obama based on the target audience.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 05, 2016 2:45 PM  

Frankenstein McBadperson wrote:Right now, ironically, the wogs really ARE starting at Calais.
The wogs have taken London, and will soon have The City.

Blogger ZaijiaN August 05, 2016 2:48 PM  

If American is propositional nation why is Obama considered a natural citizen eligible to be President instead of deported based on his own statements rejection those propositions.

Too long.

Here's one that's shorter and cuts to the quick:

If any immigrant can be a Propositional American, why are the majority of them not?

Blogger Leo Little Book in Shenzhen August 05, 2016 3:03 PM  

America is a propositional nation, meaning if you're not left-wing enough you lose your job to a foreigner.

Blogger Herb Nowell August 05, 2016 3:06 PM  

@106: How about:

If America is a propositional nation why are communists still Americans?

Blogger Were-Puppy August 05, 2016 3:09 PM  

Third World Invader:

What's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine.

Blogger John S August 05, 2016 3:17 PM  

I'm struggling to think of a pithy enough way to say it that doesn't devolve into dialectic, though.

Propositions are for whores, not Nations.

Blogger Leo Little Book in Shenzhen August 05, 2016 3:22 PM  

America is a propositional nation, meaning immigrants proposition your wife.

Anonymous Philipp August 05, 2016 4:06 PM  

That article by HP Lovecraft is absolutely accurate.

I agree with that part:

"It is also true that such of them as belong to the Teutonic and Celtic races are capable of assimilation to our English type and of becoming valuable acquisitions to the population."

Blogger David Power August 05, 2016 4:21 PM  

@93 Snidely Wiplash.

I was counting Italians and Spanish as non white.

80% sounds quite a bit conservative to me considering how populated China, India, Pakistan, Indonesia, Japan all of South and Central America, the entire Middle East, the whole Afrrican Continent, the whole of Southern Europe and a large numbers residing in the predominately White Countries.

I'm guessing that non whites now make up around 93% of the worlds' population.

I would be interested in ideas as to how to find out the actual figure.

Anonymous Laban Tall August 05, 2016 4:21 PM  

No one's yet mentioned Lovecraft's "The Street".

http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/s.aspx

Some commenters mentioned the Norse antecedents of many Brits - do you realise that Obama is descended, via his mother, from Halfdan The Old and through him from the Norse god Odin?

Also from King Edward I (Longshanks) of England, King Henry III of England, King Henry II of England, King Henry I of England, King John of England, King William I (the Bastard) of England, Count Baldwin of Flanders and his daughter Matilda, King Robert Capet I of France, King Louis I of France, and Charlemagne. Obama also shares a common descent through Richard Eltonhead with Queen Elizabeth of Great Britain.

http://genealogyofpresidents.blogspot.com/

Anonymous Mr. Rational August 05, 2016 4:23 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:H. P. Lovecraft was alt-Right before alt-Right was cool.
Now that he's been dropped as the icon of the horror writers, the Alt-Right should pick him up.

Were-Puppy wrote:Third World Invader:

What's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine.

Me:  <BANG!>  <BANG!>  <BANG!>

Blogger John S August 05, 2016 4:29 PM  

Link to that video? Anyone know which one he said that?

It was a podcast, actually. And I couldn't say which one, but it was months ago at least - you realize the amount of content that he puts out? I think he's said he's over 3000 podcasts or something crazy like that. Try google maybe?

His recent one with Jared Taylor was pretty good, and that one is a video I believe.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 05, 2016 5:13 PM  

David Power wrote:I would be interested in ideas as to how to find out the actual figure.
Very difficult. Some countries (like France) even outlaw collecting the information.
If you exclude Spain, Italy, Greece, Portugal, Albania and the Balkans except Serbia and include Slavs, you can figure
Britain, France, Germany, the Scandinavian countries, Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Slovenia, the Baltics, Austria, Iceland, Ireland, Switzerland, Holland and some parts of Russia and Romania.
Hungary and Finland are Central Asian populations, not strictly White
Outside Europe, you'd need Canada, US, Argentina, NZ, Australia

And most would have to be prorated by some percentage of non-White population, 35-40% in the US.

Blogger G-S. August 05, 2016 5:55 PM  

OK Vox Pop, tell us what you're really afraid of. Because it's pretty lame so far.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 05, 2016 6:06 PM  

G-S. wrote:OK Vox Pop, tell us what you're really afraid of. Because it's pretty lame so far.

You first, (((G.S.))).
What are you afraid of?

Blogger VFM #7634 August 05, 2016 6:09 PM  

I would say the interesting distinction among the non-English, Welsh, and Scottish populations is all are Protestant in religion. In fact they were not just Protestant but mainly Reformed. The Irish were mostly Scots-Irish Presbyterians, the Dutch were Dutch Reformed, and the French were Huguenot. I have not done enough research yet to be sure of the breakdowns on the Germans.

Even the English are arguably more Reformed than not.

Could an essential test of whiteness, in terms of the immigration acts prior to the Civil War, be not just geographical origin but Reform Protestantism?


I suspect it has more to do with the mental character and traits of those peoples rather than their holding to Calvinism itself.

I myself am a Catholic who is about half descended from these Protestants, and I find the ways that most Catholics think to be an utter mystery to me in many ways. In other words, I don't generally feel as if I'm among "my people" (unless they're Irish). On the other hand, I can usually understand Protestants of Northwest European descent better than Catholics.

Blogger Unknown August 05, 2016 7:22 PM  

Where do you think homogeneous nations come from in the first place? There is plenty for everyone to fight for, and fight they will. That's how heterogeneous polities always end.

Oh, there's plenty to fight for, and no doubt a fight of some kind, if successful, can help to change the disastrous heterogeneous policies of whatever nation the United States has become, even establish a homogenous white state or two, but it will not be America. America, as you say, was destroyed. It wasn't put on hiatus, or shelved for some future winter's day, or cryogenically frozen to be thawed and revived when the gathered remnants decide it is time to revolt. All of those things might still happen, but whatever nation or state emerges, it will not magically become the heroic and noble England envisioned by the atheist Lovecraft, because that proposition doesn't even survive it's statement. America, if destroyed, can't be undestroyed.

If a new nation is proposed, it is by definition a proposition nation. If it's to be a model of nobility or lay claim to the Western inheritance then it's certainly worth fighting for. Lovecraft's Anglo-Saxonism in America didn't fail because of racial impurity or immigration, it failed because of sin, despite such 'noble' imaginings. The truth is that the degenerative forces at work in the real world are far more reliable. Hopefully Lovecraft understood this and acknowledged his own contribution before he died (but I doubt it).

Anonymous Moonbear August 05, 2016 7:30 PM  

@103 Herb Nowell
Good to know. :)

@114 Laban Tall
Very interesting, goes to show how black genes overwrite white heritage.
Makes you wonder what people have lurking in their genes, glad I decided against living in the USA.
Minefields everywhere, I guess you can test for that nowadays although that is going to be an awkward conversation;
Plz to can has DNA test for weird haplogroups? *insert cat pic*
Luckily most people here are quite proud of their heritage and knows their lines far back and are happy to recount.

Blogger Groot August 05, 2016 9:42 PM  

"the Teutonic and Celtic races are capable of assimilation to our English type"

I agree, and would attribute to the Scots, in particular, a greater roll than they are commonly given, due to the Scottish Enlightenment and its enormous influence on the American Revolution. From Hutcheson, Hume, Adam Smith, Scottish Common Sense Realism (which was the source of the pamphlet Common Sense, as well as the phrase "we find these truths to be self-evident"), and, especially, to John Witherspoon's immigration to serve as Princeton's first president. Witherspoon taught many a governor, judge, etc., signed the Declaration of Independence, wrote the Articles of Confederation, and his prize pupil, James Madison, wrote the Constitution.

For a fascinating read, I recommend a really exceptional book about the topic: How the Scots Invented the Modern World by Arthur Herman.

Blogger Leo Little Book in Shenzhen August 05, 2016 11:40 PM  

America is a propositional nation, like a political party without a platform.

Blogger Leo Little Book in Shenzhen August 06, 2016 12:27 AM  

The American propositional nation is neither American, nor propositional, nor a nation.

Blogger Thucydides August 06, 2016 12:44 AM  

A bit sideways on the topic, but since Vox is also an SF writer this might be pertinent. Lovecraft correctly notes that the basic culture of England (specifically Protestant Dissenters, as chronicled in Samuel Huntington's book "Who Are We?") was energized by the availability of cheap land and the stresses of the pioneering age.

It is an often used trope in SF that spreading through the Solar System will be analogous to the spread of the pioneers to the West and filling the American continent (Robert A Heinlein was a huge exponent of that, and many of his spiritual successors follow a similar line), but would this necessarily be true?

The Slavic Russians spread across the Asian continent in a similar fashion over several centuries, but Russian culture hardly democratized or expanded due to the cheap land and pioneering rigour. But even culture might not be enough.

Space settlements will be small and highly controlled environments, where everyone and everything needs to be watched carefully since making even one mistake cold be fatal to the entire structure and system. Living aboard a space colony might be analogous to being the crew aboard a nuclear submarine or aircraft carrier. Rather than spreading out in libertarian city states on Mars and the Asteroids, colonies in space might actually become the most despotic "hydraulic empires" imaginable, with the life support specialists literally having life and death control over everyone else. Authoritarian leftists in the Democrat party would probably salivate over the prospect of having that much real power over people, far more than is even theoretically possible on Earth. And even starting with the entire crew of Americans, the changeover to despotism could be pretty swift and inevitable. Even knowing their heritage of liberty and the knowledge of 4GW would not help when the air, water, food and electrical power could be shut down at a whim, and the ability to restore these things would be uncertain without specialist knowledge.

Blogger Groot August 06, 2016 12:45 AM  

Moonbear wrote:Hehe, I love how you Anglo's forget the Nordics

Wikipedia: "Anglo is a Late Latin prefix used to denote English- in conjunction with another toponym or demonym. The word is derived from Anglia, the Latin name for England, and still the modern name of its eastern region. Anglia and England both mean land of the Angles, a Germanic people originating in the north German peninsula of Angeln, that is, the region of today's Lower Saxony that joins the Jutland Peninsula and thus forms an angle, so the Romans named it 'Angulus'."

@68. Moonbear:

The French Empire defeating the Germans:

Q: What Does "Maginot Line" mean in French?
A: "Speed bump ahead"

"I just love the French. They taste like chicken!"
— Hannibal Lecter

Blogger Thucydides August 06, 2016 1:03 AM  

@91

"The Feds maybe will try - but they don't have the manpower to handle the attrition for long."

The rather alarming growth of armed units in federal agencies (most of which have nothing at all to do with policing, law enforcement or the military) is almost certainly an attempt by Obama to create the "civilian force as well trained and equipped as the military".

How well a bunch of cowboy bureaucrats equipped with automatic weapons will do in a crunch is debatable, it would be golden if 4GW warriors were to set them up to fight against each other. Given the high degree of secrecy which surrounds their growth, training and mission, I suspect that most are highly stovepiped, and could easily mistake other government agencies for hostiles. Not to mention the Military and police might not recognize yet another armed group which appears on the street.

One thing a Trump Administration could do to to ensure domestic peace is to disband and disarm these units and sell off the equipment and ammunition. I'm n to sure that this factor has even made it into Trump's thinking yet, much less that of his advisory team.

Blogger Morgan Holmes August 06, 2016 11:58 AM  

http://www.castaliahouse.com/robert-e-howard-and-h-p-lovecraft-on-immigration/

Anonymous Discard August 07, 2016 4:23 AM  

127. Thucydides: The armed bureaucrats will be about as effective as the SWAT team of Columbine, Colorado.

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