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Tuesday, August 30, 2016

What is the Alt Right?

Stefan Molyneaux and I consider the question.



Just as Mike Cernovich is killing it on Twitter, Stefan is the king of the YouTube/podcast interview. He mentioned that our last conversation had 250,000 downloads. The Alt-Right may be the mainstream story du jour, but the real story is the way the Alt-Media is beginning to flex its muscle. I turned down five media requests in the last three days, but I'm always happy to make time for Stefan.

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125 Comments:

Blogger pyrrhus August 30, 2016 4:33 PM  

Also...https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2016/08/30/an-alt-right-nine-theses-or-disputation-on-the-power-of-elite-indulgences/

Blogger frigger611 August 30, 2016 4:46 PM  

If anyone from the MSM actually ever bothered to interview an alt-rt guy fairly, they would do very well to seek out Mr. Molyneaux.

The guy is cooler than a center seed in a cucumber

Anonymous grey enlightenment August 30, 2016 4:50 PM  

good summary ..White America is seeking its own identity

Blogger Brian S August 30, 2016 4:50 PM  

Stef's been very non-confrontational with you on his show so far, hopefully in the future there will be shows that are more of a debate format (not necessarily formal format), I tend to learn the most from that sort of exchange. Bravo!

Blogger Brian S August 30, 2016 4:52 PM  

also, it's pretty amusing how many people are fixated on your headset being a little off center.

Anonymous ZhukovG August 30, 2016 4:53 PM  

The MSM is like a loaded container ship. Even if they wanted to, which they don't, it will take them a long time to change directions.

Blogger Le Regardeur August 30, 2016 4:56 PM  

Vox's comment about Irish immigrants to the U.S. having no understanding of the English common law is nonsensical. English common law applied in Ireland since 1600s. The current Irish legal system is arguably closer to 18th century English common law than the English legal system. In addition, from 1801 until 1922 Ireland was part of the U.K., sent MPs to the English Parliament. Scotland, which Vox doesn't refer to at all, has never had the English common law. Scottish law was largely shaped by the Roman law (the Corpus Iuris Civilis) and continental European influences.

Anonymous Boogeyman August 30, 2016 4:57 PM  

Perhaps someone should point out to Mr. Klavan that both you and Bill Whittle have shown up on Mr. Molyneux's Youtube channel more than a few times. If Vox is a racist/Nazi and Molyneux is so friendly with you, then he must be a racist/Nazi as well. And if Whittle is goes on Molyneux's channel a lot ....

Blogger Anonymous-9 August 30, 2016 5:06 PM  

Pepe haz shiny dark eyes. Vox haz shiny dark eyes, too. Family resemblance? Hmmmmm....

Blogger Orville August 30, 2016 5:15 PM  

A little green face paint and some Trumpenhair. I didn't know Pepe was based in Italy!

Pepe and Vox have never been seen together.

Best Tools For Men

Blogger Fatherless August 30, 2016 5:15 PM  

I feel you almost can't define the alt right without defining globalism. Even if that's not true, a alt right consensus of what us glovalism would be helpful. Does one exist?

OpenID b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440 August 30, 2016 5:20 PM  

Rumors abound after the Bridgewater injury. Kaep to the Vikings?

Anonymous Tigersault (formerly known as A Visitor) August 30, 2016 5:22 PM  

Great podcast! I love how it was pointed out that as whites become a minority we will play the game, too. So many people in denial..

Blogger Anonymous-9 August 30, 2016 5:24 PM  

#10. Pepe is very cute. I'm just pointing out the obvious. Remember when pictures of Schwarzegger's kid started landing in the papers?

Blogger Dirtnapninja August 30, 2016 5:25 PM  

Glad to see you are refusing requests to interview. Never choose to fight in hostile terrain.

Blogger EscapeVelocity August 30, 2016 5:34 PM  

At the end of the day Whittle and Shapiro would prefer to live in a nation ruled by the Alt Right

Anonymous LastRedoubt August 30, 2016 5:49 PM  

@16 Escape Velocity

And I think Whittle at least realizes that.

Blogger EscapeVelocity August 30, 2016 5:49 PM  

As opposed to Globalists and or Cultural Marxists

Anonymous Tiny Duck August 30, 2016 5:57 PM  

Your alt right movement consists of a few angry white boys. It is a drop in the bucket compared to the worlds population at large.

You alt righters will be forgotten in a years time after Hillary wins and we put the hammer down

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 30, 2016 6:14 PM  

Started the vid and saw that the convo lasts over an hour, so will listen later. But the opening image of Vox looks like he's on the bridge of the Nostromo shortly before, or maybe after, landing.

Blogger SultanOfSuede August 30, 2016 6:15 PM  

Kirk is now getting a bad rap and I get it.

Conservatism for Kirk was Chestertonian. It was about attachments to particulars, to places, to historical events, to important people from one's own tribe. If Kirk was flawed, then so were the men of Chestertonian sensibilities. Lewis said something like, "a true patriot is a man who knows the warts on his wife and loves her nonetheless."

It's not fair in my opinion to impose globalism's context back on to the Chester-Belloc/Kirkean tradition. Yeah, Buckley was bad, but he was a product of the CIA and the Cold War. As a student of Kirk, he took his mentor's teachings and misapplied them because he believed the West was in a life-or-death struggle. One can hardly blame him. Buckley only became really evil in the 70s/80s.

Libertarians and recovering libertarians still come at things on the basis that ideology is good. As an alt-righter, I like what it is because it eschews ideology in most areas of human life. Greg Johnson is correct that whites will opt for different social configurations if external demographic pressures are removed. Nordics will still go for a strong social welfare state; the Anglo-sphere will split for more market-oriented economies. All will agree that trustworthy institutions, marriage, faith, etc. are important, they just won't express it in the same way or to the same degree.

Blogger SultanOfSuede August 30, 2016 6:21 PM  

Just to add as I listen to Vox talk about the ideological weakness of conservatism...

In meatspace, alt-righters are all over the place on every issue. If there's an ideology to be had, it's predicated only on the 14 words. Otherwise, the alt-right is made up of individuals with widely differing views on many issues. They're unique in being willing to set aside Calvinism vs. Romanism, market vs. social welfare state to the survival of the European peoples. In this, I think alt-right is much closer to Kirkean conservatism even if the bar is pretty low.

The phrase "no enemies to the right" was coined among us to express that we will never allow ideology to trump The Ideology of white survival and prosperity.

Anonymous mature craig August 30, 2016 6:33 PM  

There has to be something to keep the mainstream in check....undisciplined fools like me (not everyone) should try to have the discipline to not let The anonymity of the internet lull them into lazy second rate thought

Anonymous andon August 30, 2016 6:34 PM  

Tiny Duck August 30, 2016 5:57 PM
Your alt right movement consists of a few angry white boys. It is a drop in the bucket compared to the worlds population at large.

You alt righters will be forgotten in a years time after Hillary wins and we put the hammer down


so, why are you here?

Anonymous Baseball Savant August 30, 2016 6:40 PM  

Shouldn't we be talking about Teddy Bridgewater!?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 30, 2016 6:44 PM  

SultanOfSuede wrote:Buckley only became really evil in the 70s/80s.
Buckley purged Welsh and the John Birch Society in 1962.

Anonymous 5343 August 30, 2016 6:53 PM  

Vox, when I first noticed the way you engage with people outside your own belief set, I wondered whether you had a clue what you were doing.

I will happily admit I was completely wrong. The series with Stefan has been absolutely fantastic, and I now realize there is no way to spread the word apart from taking it to people who don't necessarily agree with it.

This episode is particularly useful to the #AltRight, but if you hadn't done months of setup with Stefan, there's no way it would have been.

I concede. IQ-wise, I'm whipped, bro! Carry on.

Blogger Billy Ray August 30, 2016 6:58 PM  

the alt right hates blacks, hates jews, hates muslims, loves white people and votes trump even though trump supports left wing policies on gay rights,abortion, healthcare, education....

the alt right supports/believes the LEFT wing eugenics philosophy from the 1920s that blacks are stupid, oh right you have your science to prove it, the same bigoted science that was done a hundered years ago by the left. oh and the left wing KKK policies of the 1920s that America should be for white people,

they also support the 1960s left wing pro drug agenda by wanting to end the war on drugs, which is code for legalizing pot, in the 80s the left supported communist russian totalitarianism, now the alt right supports putin;s left wing fascist totalitarianism.

Alt right bashes wall st oligarchs but loves Russian oil oligarchs, hates wall street in general llke the leftist Occupy Movement and socialist bernie sanders

just like the left and their bush lied people died rants, alt right believes any and all 9/11 conspiracies

the alt right bashed us warmongering in syria but supports russian war mongering in syria
alt right believes that some people are more equal than others a la the LEFTIST philosophy in ANIMAL FARM

a better description of these folks would be alt LEFT

Blogger Billy Ray August 30, 2016 7:02 PM  

if you believe that some people (whites) are better or MORE EQUAL than others (blacks) then you are espousing ANIMAL FARM which is LEFT WING, not right in any sense of the word

Blogger Fatherless August 30, 2016 7:06 PM  

Hey, look at that. SM asks my question and VD answers it.

Blogger Harsh August 30, 2016 7:08 PM  

a better description of these folks would be alt LEFT

And no one gives a fuck what you think, hillbilly.

Anonymous andon August 30, 2016 7:14 PM  

> putin;s left wing fascist totalitarianism.

wat?

Anonymous andon August 30, 2016 7:18 PM  

Billy Ray August 30, 2016 7:02 PM
if you believe that some people (whites) are better or MORE EQUAL than others (blacks)...


do you get angry just thinkin about it?

Blogger tublecane August 30, 2016 7:19 PM  

@20-The conservative movement didn't fail because it adopted Kirkian principles, anyway. They would, because "The Conservative Mind" doesn't offer a political program. But that doesn't matter, because the conservative movement wasn't Kirkian, anyway. If it was conservatives would stay home and gaze at their navels. The three defining aspects of modern conservative, in my estimation, were: imperialism (first anti-communist, then for its own sake), neoconservatism (which overlaps with imperialism, obviously), and the free market. None of which is Kirkian, and could be called anti-Kirkian.

What conservatism took from Kirk is twofold. First, the name. That's the most important one. Second, the intellectual lineage. This was highly artificial, and was more a collection of writers Kirk liked than a real tradition. But from then on conservative intellectuals could look a liberal in the eye and say he's a follower of Edmund Burke. Before Kirk liberals had an informal stranglehold on the Anglo-American intellectual tradition.

Vox's mistake is to read backwards, from the fact that the conservative movement failed, through Kirk being one of its founding members, to the weakness of Kirk's conservative principles. But it didn't work that way, because the movement never adopted his principles, as I said.

The name, the lineage, that's it. Buckleyan conservatism was not very Kirkian. It was accommodationist, not quietistic.

Blogger HonorLiving August 30, 2016 7:24 PM  

@26

Those labels sure are scary. You've fixed everything man.

Blogger tublecane August 30, 2016 7:25 PM  

@32-Sorry, that was poorly written and full of errors. Long story short: Kirk's principles would fail as a practical political program, but no one's tried them. The movement that took its name from his book didn't take his principles, and can't blame him for their failures.

Blogger ZhukovG August 30, 2016 7:28 PM  

It's all right Billy Ray, just show us on the doll where Marco Rubio touched you.

Blogger Matt August 30, 2016 7:32 PM  

I bet Stefan would have even more views if we didn't have to look at his face.

Blogger pyrrhus August 30, 2016 7:34 PM  

@26 Billy Ray, the DNC hereby notifies you that your pay is being docked for very inferior trolling quality....

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 30, 2016 7:35 PM  

Billy Ray wrote:if you believe that some people (whites) are better or MORE EQUAL than others (blacks) then you are espousing ANIMAL FARM which is LEFT WING, not right in any sense of the word

Sweet jumping Jehosephat.

Here, Ladies and Gentlemen, we have proof that Conservatism is not the province solely of the intelligent, coherent, those in touch with reality, or the neurologically norman.

errrr... "normal." But I like the way that rolls off the tongue.

Blogger SultanOfSuede August 30, 2016 7:38 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Millenium August 30, 2016 7:42 PM  

@26 You have figured us out you clever boy. We are indeed leftists. And not just any leftists but socialists. And not just any socialists but nationalist socialists.

Blogger Billy Ray August 30, 2016 7:42 PM  

Typing “that’s not an argument” is NOT an argument either. It is the exact same tactic that the left uses to try and cut off a debate they are losing. Type a meme, shout racist bigot homophobe etc etc over and over. Typing a meme over and over like a broken record just proves that you have zero arrows left in your intellectual quiver. And, as I said, is the same tactic used by the left. So tell me again how the alt right folks are different from the left.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 30, 2016 7:45 PM  

Vaterland Securitate thinking of taking charge of elections, because muh Security! FBI issues warning regarding some kind of hack on Illinois and Arizona election systems.

Well. That's one way for Monica's boyfriend's wife to "win" the election. But it could have unintended consequences.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 30, 2016 7:47 PM  

if you believe that some people (whites) are better or MORE EQUAL than others (blacks) then you are espousing ANIMAL FARM which is LEFT WING, not right in any sense of the word

Dammit, who left the screen door open? Look what crawled in off of the back porch!

Blogger Todd Stevens August 30, 2016 7:55 PM  

The Alt Right is, hopefully, a temporary stage on the way to being pro-White.

Blogger VD August 30, 2016 8:01 PM  

Vox, when I first noticed the way you engage with people outside your own belief set, I wondered whether you had a clue what you were doing.

I like to think that I usually do.

I will happily admit I was completely wrong. The series with Stefan has been absolutely fantastic, and I now realize there is no way to spread the word apart from taking it to people who don't necessarily agree with it.

I admire those who can admit their mistakes and learn from them. Stefan and I quite enjoy doing them, and the plan is to continue them on a regular basis. Not too often, of course, or that would soon get boring for everyone.

So tell me again how the alt right folks are different from the left.

We have completely different, and indeed, opposing objectives. You seem to think that political identity is determined by tactics. It is isn't. It is determined by objectives.

Blogger AnD August 30, 2016 8:14 PM  

So what am I defending if ask to go to war? As a White Christian male in the global world; should I go with my tribe? I'm despised here in the US. Should I fight my White Christian Nationalist Brothers from Russia? Should I give my life for a concept in the Middle East? My Senators in my state are both dual citizens of Israel. I'm just a dumb white boy wanting answers. Help.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 30, 2016 8:21 PM  

Billy Ray wrote:Typing “that’s not an argument” is NOT an argument either. It is the exact same tactic that the left uses to try and cut off a debate they are losing.

Billy Ray, do you believe we must secure the existence of white people and a future for white children?

Blogger Harry Cassandra August 30, 2016 8:28 PM  

This interview did kill it and Vox, you're getting those 'ah's under control, thus stymieing one of the more banal criticisms. It was a good summation of what you've written lately, plus some further discussion.

Anonymous Trimegistus August 30, 2016 8:33 PM  

I have to agree with Billy Ray: at times the rhetoric of the alt-"right" is identical to that of the Left. Boo corporations, boo America, boo technology, boo Enlightenment ideas, yay Russia.

When I'm feeling _very_ suspicious, I wonder how many of these posts are actually coming from St. Petersburg.

Blogger Mountain Man August 30, 2016 8:36 PM  

The JBS was a great organization until the Mormons under G. Vance Smith performed their coup.

As a longtime paleo-conservative/libertarian discovering Lew Rockwell on the net ( nearly 12 years ago) was like discovering an oasis in the midst of a long desert journey. Since then the journey has led to more discoveries of fountains of knowledge and truth - like this blog and The Chateau etc..
Blogs like this one, chateau and LRC are like beacons of light in the midst of batshit insanity.

Anonymous VFM #7916 August 30, 2016 8:39 PM  

OT:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/homeland-eyes-special-declaration-to-take-charge-of-elections/article/2600592

We're boned now.

Blogger Mountain Man August 30, 2016 8:39 PM  

@24
I read some years back (can't remember where) that Buckley was a CIA operative used to derail the JBS as its was beginning to gain momentum. Wouldn't find it surprising to be true - quite honestly.
He always seemed like such a pretentious, pompous windbag.

OpenID simplytimothy August 30, 2016 8:46 PM  

Italians screaming at each other over soccer, Japanese don't do that, Americans...

And The Lord God Made Them All


Blogger dienw August 30, 2016 9:08 PM  

A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents wrote: Vaterland Securitate thinking of taking charge of elections, because muh Security! FBI issues warning regarding some kind of hack on Illinois and Arizona election systems.

Well. That's one way for Monica's boyfriend's wife to "win" the election. But it could have unintended consequences.


And the main parties hacking the elections are the oligarchs; every single electronic voting system is corrupt: lame Cherry did a few articles over the past few months exposing the various corporations involved in the voting. During the past few elections the process was to flip the elections 15% towards the winner: this was Obama. The latest programs used creates fractional voting giving more or less weight to votes as needed. Lame Cherry stated that the plan underway now is to have Hillary win by 81% just like Ryan won in his primary (you don't think Nehlin really lost do you?).

The 15% program was developed by a casino operator in Spain who was shortly thereafter murdered and his program stolen.

If the voting system was really hacked, the hackers would be making sure the vote counting was honest.

Blogger Lazarus August 30, 2016 9:20 PM  

Billy Ray wrote:a better description of these folks would be alt LEFT

Are you gonna burn that Straw Man at a special festival soon?

Blogger Lazarus August 30, 2016 9:27 PM  

Billy Ray wrote:Typing “that’s not an argument” is NOT an argument either. It is the exact same tactic that the left uses to try and cut off a debate they are losing. Type a meme, shout racist bigot homophobe etc etc over and over. Typing a meme over and over like a broken record just proves that you have zero arrows left in your intellectual quiver. And, as I said, is the same tactic used by the left. So tell me again how the alt right folks are different from the left.

That's not an argument.

Blogger Bard August 30, 2016 9:30 PM  

Diversity is only a strength in your investment portfolio!

Blogger tublecane August 30, 2016 9:32 PM  

@41-Why don't you start a twitter feed called "the right is the real left." Or would that be "the left is the real right?" How about "everybody but Billy Ray is wrong?"

Anonymous andon August 30, 2016 9:46 PM  

(you don't think Nehlin really lost do you?)

it was hard to believe he lost by that margin - 4:1

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 30, 2016 9:51 PM  

You guys interview so well that it seems weird to keep mentioning it.

One thing I would have liked to hear about re: genocide is the intentional suppression of white birthrates, particularly in the US.

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 30, 2016 10:07 PM  

Le Regardeur wrote:Vox's comment about Irish immigrants to the U.S. having no understanding of the English common law is nonsensical.

It matches their behavior: entryism and expansionism. Read For the Good of the Order by John Milton for an example, it details the ruthless Irish takeover of the leftist party in Minnesota.

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 30, 2016 10:11 PM  

Note that this takeover was only possible because corporate overlords had previously imported diversity to work in the Iron Range so that they wouldn't be able to organize unions, which the Irish demagogues exploited for gibs. Here diversity means Swedish, Norwegian, German, and other sorts of white (the point was that they had no bargaining power together).

Blogger Were-Puppy August 30, 2016 10:14 PM  

@21 SultanOfSuede

In meatspace, alt-righters are all over the place on every issue. If there's an ideology to be had, it's predicated only on the 14 words.
---

While that is important, it seems to me that the alt-right is largely based on anti-Globalism and Nationalism. Or maybe we are all over the place, after all.

Anonymous Takin' a Look August 30, 2016 10:16 PM  

@dienw

Yes, it's also why we have Paid shilling from both Leftists and Cucks. It will double-down from now until election day. Trump leads the pack @ 70% in unique visitor on-line polls.

The name of the game is demoralize,demoralize,demoralize and make apathetic. So nobody cares when Hillary wins.

Blogger Lazarus August 30, 2016 10:21 PM  

My favorite quote: @ 1.12.21

The biggest shock of my life, other than becoming a Christian...

Blogger The Other Robot August 30, 2016 10:22 PM  

Jesse Jackson thought Trump was a good guy before he though Trump was a racist.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar August 30, 2016 10:23 PM  

Globalism is just slavery writ large. The New World Order is just a giant plantation system. Slaves on the Left and serfs on the right.
I don't like Alt-Right. The enemy wants to do what it did to the TEA Party. Put a label on you and lead you astray with fake leaders. There is nothing alternative about White people having their own countries. The Alt-Right is the Real Right, the "conservatives" are the fakers.
I'm a National Socialist. It kills communism well. They won't touch that label. Its a moniker they won't adopt for their uses. Isn't that racist? Racist isn't even a word. Staying with your own is normal. That thing about not judging people by their color was lame, but when they added only Whites can be racist, I realized I was dealing with morons.

Blogger Lazarus August 30, 2016 10:30 PM  

The Other Robot wrote:Jesse Jackson thought Trump was a good guy before he though Trump was a racist.

Who is Jesse Jackson?? /S

Blogger Aeoli Pera August 30, 2016 10:33 PM  

Were-Puppy wrote:While that is important, it seems to me that the alt-right is largely based on anti-Globalism and Nationalism. Or maybe we are all over the place, after all.

The right is predisposed to three political weaknesses: complacency, gullibility, and fractiousness. This seems to follow from the personality traits seen West of the Hajnal line: individualism, high-trust, and outbreeding.

Blogger Robert Divinity August 30, 2016 10:52 PM  

Worth the time investment, thanks. It was particularly good to watch you point out we prefer Western Civilization to all other cultures. I don't necessarily agree that preference is subjective as there is much objective evidence to support it is the superior culture, but it is nice to see our full embrace of Western Civilization proudly explained.

Blogger Robert Divinity August 30, 2016 11:07 PM  

Even if that's not true, a alt right consensus of what us glovalism would be helpful. Does one exist?

I think of it as transnational utopianism, not unlike the old Marxist trope about the withering away of the state. It's anti-national(ism) at its core. Elites in this borderless world assume the role of modern feudal overlords and use global organizations such as the UN and EU to consolidate their power. That's part of it, anyhow.

As a student of Kirk, he took his mentor's teachings and misapplied them because he believed the West was in a life-or-death struggle. One can hardly blame him. Buckley only became really evil in the 70s/80s.

Buckley was a product of that era and a student of Kirk but that isn't what made him a bad man. He truly was the first conservative virtue signaler. Rather than risk the wrath of Keynes and other leftists with whom he broke bread, Buckley always was willing to unperson people on the Right who brought up such unpleasant matters as the downsides of racial integration. He didn't bother to try to prove his point through argument, but chose to purge for bad thoughts. He really put into motion what was going on among conservatives until they hit a brick wall named Donald Trump and the really unrelated Alt-Right. It was overdue.


Anonymous FP August 30, 2016 11:28 PM  

On the whole (soft) genocide argument, I've found the comparison of whites in CA in 1970 vs 2010 to be a good counter point and get away from the holocaust. Via Mark Steyn,

http://www.steynonline.com/7433/witless-ape-the-director-cut

"Go back to that line "When Reagan first ran for governor of California..." Gosh, those were the days, weren't they? But Reagan couldn't get elected Governor of California now, could he? Because the Golden State has been demographically transformed. From my book The [Un]documented Mark Steyn:

According to the Census, in 1970 the 'Non-Hispanic White' population of California was 78 per cent. By the 2010 Census, it was 40 per cent. Over the same period, the 10-per cent Hispanic population quadrupled and caught up with whites.

That doesn't sound terribly 'natural', does it? If one were informed that, say, the population of Nigeria had gone from 80 per cent black in 1970 to 40 per cent black today, one would suspect something rather odd and profoundly unnatural had been going on."

Blogger Robert Divinity August 30, 2016 11:31 PM  

*Galbraith, not Keynes.

Blogger Desiderius August 30, 2016 11:52 PM  

Vox,

Your voice and the fluency of your live speech is improving. Good to see.

Blogger Billy Ray August 30, 2016 11:58 PM  

So the alt right, many of whom have never even driven by an army base let alone served, think they are more entitled to live in this country simply because they are white than the black guys who fought with me…fought for the freedom they enjoy to be sanctimonious self-righteous assholes.... two words for you alt right assholes ..FUCK and YOU.

Blogger Todd Stevens August 31, 2016 12:00 AM  

Billy Ray,

How does any of that justify CHASING DOWN Whites with genocidal policies?

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 31, 2016 12:17 AM  

Man. Can anyone believe that ((($oros))) is paying college dropouts like "Billy Ray" to sit in converted call center cubes to type comments off of scripts? What kind of a life is that, even for someone who flunked out of Poly Sci?

Blogger tublecane August 31, 2016 12:19 AM  

@69-What you say is true, except you can't say conservatism was all him up to Trump. He didn't set it in motion, FDR did. By the time he got on the scene they were calling it the New Right, because there was an Old Right. Which was populated by some of the figures who contributed to the early days of the National Review, like Kirk and Nock. What Buckley did was being the movement to mainstream attention, if not respect. They weren't going to respect him no matter whom he purged.

I would add that there were two distinct ideologies, for which Buckley deserves no credit, that contributed to whatever victories the conservative movement may claim: neoconservatism and libertarianism. Buckley joined up with the neocons, eventually, but didn't put them into motion. He tried to read the libertarians out of the movement--or at least the Randians and Rothbardians--but failed.

It may be a small point, but it wasn't all Buckley until Trump. Mainstream conservatism was mostly Buckley on the popular level. In the halls of power and in Conservatism, Inc.'s tiny share of the MSM, it's been more neocon-y.

Anonymous andon August 31, 2016 12:20 AM  

Billy Ray August 30, 2016 11:58 PM
So the alt right, many of whom have never even driven by an army base let alone served, think they are more entitled to live in this country simply because they are white than the black guys who fought with me…fought for the freedom they enjoy to be sanctimonious self-righteous assholes.... two words for you alt right assholes ..FUCK and YOU.


do you feel stupid for signing up to fight Israel's wars?

Blogger tublecane August 31, 2016 12:22 AM  

@73-Tell me where or how you fought for freedom, and maybe I'll tell you why you didn't.

Anonymous Wyrd August 31, 2016 12:22 AM  

two words for you alt right assholes ..FUCK and YOU.

Hold on, lemme check...uh, nope, according to current readings, we still don't care. You might want to move on to cuckservatives to get their fawning opinion of your declarations. Your self-image seems to depend on it.

Anonymous wEz August 31, 2016 12:28 AM  

Billy Ray, me thinks you need a hug. And please, stick to your cheesy country music from now on.

Blogger residentMoron August 31, 2016 12:44 AM  

Enjoyed that video, muy muy bene.

Billy Ray

I don't care either. Stupidity doesn't make you special.

Anonymous JAG August 31, 2016 12:45 AM  

Billy Ray wrote:if you believe that some people (whites) are better or MORE EQUAL than others (blacks) then you are espousing ANIMAL FARM which is LEFT WING, not right in any sense of the word


Felt good to get your two minutes of hate in at that straw man didn't it?

In Animal Farm, the blacks would be under the rule of the elite. The Alt-Right isn't interested in ruling blacks. We fully support blacks having their own country where they can do as they please with no white privilege to get in the way.

Blogger Robert Divinity August 31, 2016 12:56 AM  

They weren't going to respect him no matter whom he purged.

He thought they might respect him. Of course you are right and that never would have happened. That is one of the more grotesque aspects of Cuckley conservatism I do lay at the master's feet. He thought he could take conservatism mainstream and respectable as long as he sacrificed to the communist gods the object of their current Two Minutes of Hate.

Buckley joined up with the neocons, eventually, but didn't put them into motion. He tried to read the libertarians out of the movement--or at least the Randians and Rothbardians--but failed.

No argument. His earlier criticism of the neocons and Israel reveal his decision was a pure political calculation rather than a thoughtful analysis that led him to a different place. He also ditched the neo-conservations after the Iraq War went south despite his tepid and often contorted support of it at the outset. As to the libertarians, his gyrations to distinguish himself from them after he adopted support for narcotics legalization was cringeworthy.

It may be a small point, but it wasn't all Buckley until Trump.

No, but the neocons adopted his tactic to read out of the "movement" those who disagreed with them. I and scores of others were dismissed as palecons as the Iraq invasion loomed and felt real life consequences over it. Buckley's last gasp about how it was a total clusterfuck came as little relief to those whose purge he presaged and likely enjoyed.

Anonymous andon August 31, 2016 1:11 AM  

Billy Ray August 30, 2016 11:58 PM
So the alt right, many of whom have never even driven by an army base let alone served, think they are more entitled to live in this country simply because they are white than the black guys who fought with me…fought for the freedom they enjoy to be sanctimonious self-righteous assholes.... two words for you alt right assholes ..FUCK and YOU.


the more I read this I think Billy Ray has guilt because he knows the Alt-Right is correct. he's arguing with himself, trying to keep believing the BS he's been fed all his life.

Blogger Dire Badger August 31, 2016 1:23 AM  

@41-

Your argument revolves around the assumption that we think we are 'more equal' than others.

Incorrect, we simply state that our people are more important to US than your people are, just as your people are more important to YOU than OUR people.

That is almost an encapsulation of the entire alt-right philosophy. Basically, the rest of your arguments are no more than hot vapor expanding on an artificial pretext.

In short, you are a dumbfuck.

Blogger tublecane August 31, 2016 1:27 AM  

@82-I didn't follow National Review or Buckley around the time of Iraq, Part II, but he had done more than enough to ingratiate himself with the neocons, especially regarding Israel, that it would have required he go on national primetime tv and call Bush the Younger a war criminal to make up for it.

That book he wrote on anti-semitism, the purging of Joe Sobran, and so forth. Yuck.

Blogger tublecane August 31, 2016 1:36 AM  

@82-I should have added one thing. Ingratiating himself with those who ought to have been his mortal enemies didn't buy much while Buckley was alive. Now that he's dead and the right has sunk to new depths, in the left's estimation, and they can fake esteem for Buckley in retrospect. They make documentaries on his debates with Gore Vidal and he's not Hitler anymore, just a fuddyduddy loser.

Blogger Bosefus August 31, 2016 1:36 AM  

Vox you allude to the tower of babel but why not call these globilists people 'Nimrods'. I call most people Nimrods but you have built a good case for it.

Blogger Bosefus August 31, 2016 1:39 AM  

i forgot the youtupe...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfwGkplB_sY

Blogger tublecane August 31, 2016 1:40 AM  

@84-That "more equal" thing is about hypocrisy. If you don't believe in equality, as is the case with the alt-right, you don't say something's more equal. You have no use for that dodge. You simply say they're unequal.

Blogger Bosefus August 31, 2016 1:45 AM  

Although the VW behind them is a truck, I had a van of that year... I'm so cool ha... everyone was...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfwGkplB_sY

Blogger JohnG August 31, 2016 1:46 AM  

Vox - thanks for the video! Look at African insurgencies for parallels to the US regarding how to start a civil war(pandering to one group at the expense of another). If I were going to start one, I'd simply do as the left is doing and then add a financial crisis (real one, one where you were without food over 72+ hours). On Free Trade™ I never see comments (anywhere) about the price of slave labor - it would seem that modern economies can't compete with slaves... it would seem to be an addendum to the labor mobility point you made with M. It always strikes me funny every time somebody gets busted getting their products produced in a sweathouse, but nobody says Boo about Chinese or Vietnamese national sweathouses.

Blogger Bosefus August 31, 2016 1:51 AM  

Trust in Jesus is like a trust in ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntpyFfef-NA

Anonymous SciVo August 31, 2016 1:53 AM  

@26 Billy Ray:

I'm not going to bother addressing your points, since you've demonstrated that you can't learn (or you don't want to, or you're trolling, or whatever). But I would like for any bystanders to consider the difference between these two stances:

Me: My people are the best, and I strongly support the right of other peoples to believe the same about themselves -- even though they're wrong. And perhaps they would be happier believing it from somewhere else, where they wouldn't be fighting the CogDis of being constantly surrounded by evidence of my people's awesomeness.

Left & Cucks: I strongly support the right of almost all peoples to believe that theirs is the best -- but whites who do that are Literally Hitler. And if they do it in a foreign country and get brutalized, then they had it coming. But if they do it in their own lands, then they're, like, some sci-fi uber-Hitler who gassed six billion Jews in an alternate dimension. Because an alien might see them! (Not that kind of sci-fi. I mean a foreigner.) MUH FEELZ.

For one thing, I'm the egalitarian one in that scenario, treating everyone as having the same rights. For another, I'm merely a fan of my people; whereas the left & cucks fear me like a baneful deity, treating my enthusiasm with the hysteria that is normally reserved for nukes, epidemics, and the barista getting your order wrong.

That's right. YT fans are at least as bad getting a medium americano with some nonfat milk thrown in, when you clearly stated that you wanted a tall, skinny, tepid, no-foam latte. Maybe even worse.

Blogger Bosefus August 31, 2016 1:57 AM  

Check out your others...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZx7xCK6yfo

Blogger tublecane August 31, 2016 2:00 AM  

@89-I was reading a book recently arguing that if the left has a god, unlike the Christian God, it's an evil god. Hitler is their evil god. He rules over them, in a way, commanding their attention and respect.

Blogger rho August 31, 2016 2:09 AM  

Fun fact: random fast-forward into the first-third of the video presented VD talking about his multi-racial background.

And yet, VD was there, in 1976, in Whogivesafuck, Lexington.

If I were a dickwad, I'd demand an accounting: are you Mexican, Indian, or original English?

I'm not a dickwad, so I just point it out.

Blogger Mark Butterworth August 31, 2016 2:24 AM  

VD,

Regarding discussions with Stefan, I would suggest you try the subject of God; a debate.

I did, and because I had failed to do more thorough research I was unprepared when, at the start of a conversation about the efficacy of meeting God (the nature and matter of theophanies as described for millennia), he announced that there was no God, he had proved it with logic, I should read his book. (Why he invited me to discuss the subject given his peremptory dismissal of the topic at hand is beyond me.)

That pretty much derailed the discussion right there but it went on for some time with him reading large excerpts (of some false science) from Wikipedia on creation nonsense which I called him on - "hey, when do I get to open a bunch of web pages and just read from them?"

I don't think he ever published our exchange because it was something of an abortion.

Somebody once said about debating on TV or wherever, if you don't get to talk, you automatically lose. Stefan hardly let me speak. Which is what he does with a large number of people on his videos.

I lost almost all respect for him after that encounter, and now find him simply annoying, very shallow, and not very knowledgeable about life. A lost autiste.

Anonymous Profile Edit August 31, 2016 2:46 AM  

Somebody once said about debating on TV or wherever, if you don't get to talk, you automatically lose. Stefan hardly let me speak. Which is what he does with a large number of people on his videos.
Stefan has changed considerably. Especially on two topics a) libertarianism (he has a powerful moment when he declares he isn't one anymore and at some point we all have to wake up) b) faith (he is now opposed to atheism and said in the very video above that his perspective on it changed)

Stef was in a bubble some years ago and hardly sufferable. Now in the current crisis he has shown that he can grow tremendously. He really worked on himself.

Anonymous That other guy August 31, 2016 2:54 AM  

Billy Ray is likely still a few years shy of ROTC.

Blogger Mark Butterworth August 31, 2016 3:02 AM  

Profile Edit wrote:

Stefan has changed considerably. Especially on two topics a) libertarianism (he has a powerful moment when he declares he isn't one anymore and at some point we all have to wake up) b) faith (he is now opposed to atheism and said in the very video above that his perspective on it changed)

Stef was in a bubble some years ago and hardly sufferable. Now in the current crisis he has shown that he can grow tremendously. He really worked on himself.


My conversation with him was a mere few months ago, so if he has since altered, that is news. He was quite insufferable with me then, but I'd be glad if he has reformed a little. I remain a bit skeptical (until given more proof), though, since our encounter was so recent.

Blogger Ben Sanderson August 31, 2016 3:04 AM  

I still don't like Steve Mollinew. He doesn't create or initiate movements .. he follows them. Then he declares himself to be a "thought leader". I'm not kidding. He was a men's rights activist ... when men's rights was cool. He was a libertarian ... when that was cool. Now he's a white nationalist who questions Jewish influence... because it's au courrant.

Trust me on this. Steve Mollinew follows, he doesn't lead. Just watch him and you'll see.

Anonymous Anonymous August 31, 2016 3:15 AM  

They had no understanding as they were peasants

Blogger mjusiq August 31, 2016 3:45 AM  

Billy Ray August 30, 2016 7:02 PM
if you believe that some people (whites) are better or MORE EQUAL than others (blacks)...

No - but reality tells us that white people are smarter, - as any teacher at a multiculti school can tell you.

The study "Children's early development and learning," presented by the University of Aarhus and University of Southern Denmark, has raised concerns in Denmark. The researchers themselves have called the results "extremely worrying," the Danish newspaper Information reported.

Immigrant children are an average of two years behind in their mental development compared with their Danish peers, according to the study. In addition to short-term problems, this is also likely to have an adverse effect on their future, as they may be predisposed to criminal behavior later in life.

According to the behavioral study of 13,000 preschool-aged children, a five-year-old child of non-Western immigrant parents is, on average, likely to have a clearly less developed capacity for empathy, is less able to work with others, and has a harder time expressing his or her feelings than three-year-old Danish children.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/art_living/20160829/1044736511/denmark-immigrant-children-empathy.html

Norway: 42% of non-western (Middle-east/North-Afrika) boys totally fail 10 years of primary school. Not eligible for higher education. For those of them entering High School: 62% fail - even after getting extra resources and help during 4 years of studies AND a extra free 5th year - to catch up. Fail. (Girls doing a little better - but hey, they end up in a kitchen, with a nigaq, popping out babies - in one of the muslim created gettos. Living on welfare. White flight.)

Failing the education: no jobs. Lifelong welfare. And crime, violence, rape and mayhem is next. Police came with a stark warning yesterday: in our small Capital, Oslo (620 000) - year by year the numbers of gangs in our streets grow. Estimated to one hundred gangs this summer. Near 100% immigrants. In 1980 - there where zero gangs. 80% of our prison population are non-ethnic Norwegians. And so the story goes - all over Europe.

I know - reality seems harsh for ideology driven creatures. Get used to it.

Blogger Scuzzaman August 31, 2016 5:23 AM  

tublecane wrote:@89-I was reading a book recently arguing that if the left has a god, unlike the Christian God, it's an evil god. Hitler is their evil god. He rules over them, in a way, commanding their attention and respect.

The God of the Left is power, personified as Government.

What are the attributes of God?

1. Omnibenevolent
2. Omniscient
3. Omnipotent

The Left claims all three of these for their god, Government.

1. They claim that government wants to help everyone.
2. They claim that government knows how to help everyone.
3. They claim that government can help everyone.

As we know, they always lie, so all three of these are false. These are the false attributes of their false god.

Anonymous Garrulus August 31, 2016 6:51 AM  

vox his name is Molyneux not Molyneaux

Anonymous Bobby Farr August 31, 2016 7:20 AM  

@73 Brilliant. By that logic, I can magically change my ethnicity simply by serving in the military. A Mexican becomes Japanese if he gets a job with the SDF.

Blogger Joe Vega August 31, 2016 7:27 AM  

Attempting to redefine.

Anonymous SciVo August 31, 2016 7:28 AM  

VD: You said there are three aspects of globalism -- political, economic, and spiritual -- but you also mentioned architecture, and this article makes a very good argument that it also has a distinct aesthetic.

Blogger Joe Vega August 31, 2016 7:33 AM  

What/who exactly is AR rebelling against? Are they rebelling against conservatives that are interventionist? NEO?

Anonymous SciVo August 31, 2016 7:49 AM  

Joe Vega @102, I reject your question. We can be defined sufficiently well on our own. For example, we generally share the principles of subsidiarity and pragmatism, thus generally oppose transnational authoritarianism (which always has a utopian gloss).

If you mean the name, we're an alternative to the establishment right, which had proven itself to be nothing more than the controlled opposition (kayfabe, kabuki) of the transnational socialist Uniparty.

But an oak tree is not an acorn, not even as a sapling.

Anonymous CC August 31, 2016 8:28 AM  

Mountain Man wrote:@24

I read some years back (can't remember where) that Buckley was a CIA operative used to derail the JBS as its was beginning to gain momentum. Wouldn't find it surprising to be true - quite honestly.

He always seemed like such a pretentious, pompous windbag.


It's actually on wikipedia, believe it or not:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_F._Buckley_Jr.#Education.2C_military_service.2C_and_the_CIA

In 1951, like some of his classmates in the Ivy League, Buckley was recruited into the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA); he served for two years including one year in Mexico City working on political action for E. Howard Hunt.[23] These two officers remained lifelong friends.[24] In a November 1, 2005, column for National Review, Buckley recounted that while he worked for the CIA, the only employee of the organization that he knew was Hunt, his immediate boss. While in Mexico, Buckley edited The Road to Yenan, a book by Peruvian author Eudocio Ravines.

Of course, he only knew Howard Hunt, who happened to be a part of the operation that helped unseat Nixon, and he was only with the CIA for two years.

Assuming Wikipedia is converged, you can probably take some of the facts they provide on trust, since they could be considered somewhat embarrassing or revealing and probably too big to cover up. That Buckley was a member of the CIA is one of these.

Because of this, I'll sometimes look up certain figures out of simple curiosity: for instance, recently I came across a really chilling speech by EU Vice President Frans Timmermans:

Europe will be diverse, like all other parts of the world will be diverse. The only question is, how do we deal with that diversity? And my answer to that is, by ensuring that our values determine how we deal with diversity and not giving up our values to refuse diversity. That will bring us down as a society.

(Here's the speech in full:

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-15-5754_en.htm

And you can watch him here (1 min 30s):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q94syUDDhxA

the speech is the polar opposite to the speech given by Viktor Orbán)

The whole thing is full of doubletalk and craziness of the "we must destroy freedom to save it" variety. I ended up looking him up because it left me wondering: "just who in the hell is this guy?"

On Wikipedia I found this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frans_Timmermans

On 6 January 1986 he was conscripted in the Royal Netherlands Army as a Private first class for the Dutch Military Intelligence and Security Service as a Russian Prisoner of War interrogator.

Interesting. The question then becomes: is intelligence like the Hotel California? (and I don't mean that it's a lovely place)

Anonymous andon August 31, 2016 9:45 AM  

> Somebody once said about debating on TV or wherever, if you don't get to talk, you automatically lose. Stefan hardly let me speak. Which is what he does with a large number of people on his videos.

yeah this is true

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents August 31, 2016 9:55 AM  

@97mjusiq
Failing the education: no jobs. Lifelong welfare. And crime, violence, rape and mayhem is next. Police came with a stark warning yesterday: in our small Capital, Oslo (620 000) - year by year the numbers of gangs in our streets grow. Estimated to one hundred gangs this summer. Near 100% immigrants. In 1980 - there where zero gangs. 80% of our prison population are non-ethnic Norwegians. And so the story goes - all over Europe.

These are the people that are supposed to make up for low European birth rates; the replacements for white Europeans. The globalists still believe in the blank slate fallacy, even when obvious evidence contradicting it literally is in front of their eyes, setting fire to their car.

Blogger Dire Badger August 31, 2016 12:17 PM  

@83- He doesn't speak for veterans. He's most likely a 'muh college' reservist or boot camp washout, especially since those that took their oath seriously have very clearly stated their position... which is highly sympathetic of the alt right.

Blogger Dave August 31, 2016 12:34 PM  

Thanks for this, VD. I'm fairly new here, so this was my first opportunity to put a face and a voice along with these writings. It was a great discussion.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 31, 2016 1:45 PM  

Joe Vega wrote:What/who exactly is AR rebelling against? Are they rebelling against conservatives that are interventionist? NEO?
We oppose the Left, in both its Progressive and Conservative modes.

Blogger Dire Badger August 31, 2016 8:34 PM  

We Oppose Busybodies.

Anonymous Eric the Red September 01, 2016 4:58 AM  

@41...
The left destroys morale with guilt. They hit you over and over that you are not perfect.

The left's most effective weapon is to inflict self-doubt, confusion, and guilt by essentially saying, in as many different ways as possible, "You are not perfect. You are a sinner. Your ideals and everything you stand for is therefore worthless, because you are not a perfect exemplar."

And to aid in their infliction of guilt, they will invariably assume a binary stance, automatically associating you with the worst in opposites of everything they purport to be.

Good 'ole Billy Ray is a leftist troll, no doubt about it. He and his Soros handlers are simply trying out a minor variation on a standard theme, i.e., to pretend that you and your opponents are somehow the same. It's never going to work with the alt-Right.

Anonymous George of the Jungle September 01, 2016 5:53 AM  

The key to bringing down a leftist is to hit them in their vanity, especially their intellectual conceit.

Blogger VD September 01, 2016 4:16 PM  

If I were a dickwad, I'd demand an accounting: are you Mexican, Indian, or original English?

All three. Plus Irish. I am descended from revolutionaries on both sides, as it happens. Valley Forge on one side, Pancho Villa on the other.

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