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Tuesday, September 06, 2016

A conservative critique of the Alt-Right

In which (((Jeff Goldstein))), aka Protein Wisdom, considers the Alt-Right via the 16-points I laid out and concludes that Democrats are the Real Racists the Alt-Right are the Real Leftists in The Federalist.
The Alt-Right Is The Mirror Image Of The New Left

Our system was designed for assimilation and naturalization. The complete corruption of that system and the usurpation of its intent by those who redefine it in the terms of transnational progressivism are largely responsible for the resurgence of the white nationalism at the heart of the alt-right’s identitarian “philosophy.”

Concerns over a loss of sovereignty or the overdetermined influence granted preferred minority groups are legitimate, despite the putative conservatives who pretend they are not, or parrot an establishment apologia that waxes poetic about “inclusivity” and “economic growth” while Americans are increasingly self-segregating and an entire generation of young people will struggle to find a way into the workforce. I can read crime statistics, and have watched states turn blue as the result not of good Democratic Party governance but entitlement promises and the logistical changes that inevitably follow. Libertarian economist Milton Friedman knew well that you can’t have an open borders-type immigration system tied to a welfare state. That’s precisely what we now have.

Still, there are fixes to our national maladies that reside in the constitutional system of government we each inherited as our birthright as American citizens. American exceptionalism, which neither Barack Obama nor Donald Trump understand or can articulate, was born of our founding. This exceptionalism is found not in its genetic makeup (after all, we fought other white Europeans for our independence) but in a collage of Enlightenment ideas our Founders pulled together to create what became our national portrait.

To reclaim our birthright, we need only reclaim the Constitution. We need to re-embrace American exceptionalism and reject the kind of toxic identitarianism the Left uses to divide us, manage us, and place us into needy voter blocs they then collect to win elections, and through which an institutionalized progressive cancer spreads to eat away its bones.

Identity Politics On the Right

But we need recognize this cancer is not necessarily isolated within a given political party. It is opportunistic: in the ’60s, it infiltrated the “bourgeois” Democratic Party the cultural Marxists despised to become the New Left that today controls many of our institutions. As it did so, this long march created a counter-trend we now see bubbling up through cracks in our national foundation.

This counter-trend, make no mistake, is every bit as identitarian as anything Edward Said ever wrote, and just as toxic. Said enormously influenced Western academics. His Orientalism laid out the case for identity politics, declaring who controls particular group narratives and how, and who and what comes to count as “authentic” and thus permitted to represent a given identity group and its (collectivist) narrative. Identity politics necessarily brackets and minimizes individualism. As with much the Left does, it remains policed by a kind of mob shaming and an enforced intellectual correctness that is linguistically incoherent.

Unfortunately, this same set of core beliefs is now ascendant on a vocal part of the self-described “Right.” In his “What the Alt Right is,” Vox Day, one of the leaders of the alt-right “movement,” details what he calls “a core Alt Right philosophy upon which others can build,” then provides a list of 16 items one can imagine he sees himself virtually nailing to the doors of Benetton stores like a modern-day Martin Luther.
Read the whole thing. It is more than a little illuminating with regards to how the conservatives think, although there is nothing that is likely to surprise any regular reader of this blog. I will respond to it in detail later this week, but feel free to share your own thoughts in the meantime.

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257 Comments:

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Anonymous Faceless September 06, 2016 11:36 AM  

I always find it funny that conservatives want to claim the Enlightenment. It shows they conserve nothing. Naming John Locke might be one thing - but a conservative should be naturally repulsed by all things having to do with the French philosophes and the French revolution. He gets off immediately on the wrong foot.

Anonymous Axe Head September 06, 2016 11:36 AM  

Jew gonna jewsplain.

Anonymous karsten September 06, 2016 11:37 AM  

..."nailing to the doors of Benetton stores like a modern-day Martin Luther."

Pace the author's intent, that is a legitimately, unironically heroic and appealing image.

Blogger Nate September 06, 2016 11:40 AM  

i saw this earlier today. needless to say I'm not impressed. There is no good conservative argument against nationalism.

Nationalism should be the defining characteristic OF conservatism. What we have here... is just more virtue signalling and hand-wringing over badthink.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 06, 2016 11:46 AM  

From the linked article:
It helps to envision our political spectrum not as a line but as a circle. At one point in that circle, the alt-right and the progressive left meet and become of a piece.

No, it doesn't help, it's stupid. Pournelle came up with a better way to think some 50+ years ago, is it too much to ask that smart Poly-Sci dudes catch up with the 1950's?

Muh Constitution! All we have to do is restore Muh Constitution!

Never mind that Tony Kennedy killed it dead back in 2003 with his "meaning of life" clause.

Blogger Robert Divinity September 06, 2016 11:47 AM  

Typical Jewish pap that simultaneously denies white identity exists and that it must be stopped. Goldstein's Shinin' City on Da Hill platitudes stopped being relevant about thirty or forty years ago. If he and those like him--if they ever believed this bullshit in the first place--actually had acted on what they profess now, we wouldn't be in a post-constitutional, post-Rule of Law, Banana Empire era. As it is, the Goldstein types aided and abetted the current crisis and now chant about "muh Constitution" and how the identity politics they didn't bitch mention when they came from the Left suddenly are so evil. I'd have to research him but to Goldstein's credit he at least claims never to have bought into the neocon idiocy. Count me skeptical.

He actually makes a few good points but largely has backed into them, and again about thirty years too late.

Blogger Robert Divinity September 06, 2016 11:52 AM  

Maybe the Solid Goldstein Ghost Dancers also can bring back a robust economy while they are playing Dr. Frankenstein with the Thing Formerly Known as the United States Constitution, while at it.

Blogger John S September 06, 2016 11:53 AM  

The GOPe complaints of "you're adopting leftist tactics, ect" is especially retarded considering that the left has had near complete control over society for generations. Whatever your disdain for their methods, its pretty obvious that they work.

Curious that they only find the spine to oppose their use when its in service of what they've been pretending was "their" side...

Blogger Ben Cohen September 06, 2016 11:54 AM  

Lie: denying the genetic makeup of the founders and their posterity.

Where the hell was this guy when Ron Paul was running and talking about the Constitution non-stop? I bet he supported the establishment Republican candidate.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus September 06, 2016 11:55 AM  

To reclaim our birthright, we need only reclaim the Constitution.

That's never going to happen. The Constitution, in fact, is part of the reason why we LOST our birthright to begin with, so It's not altogether clear that we *should* try to reclaim it, either.

OpenID paworldandtimes September 06, 2016 11:58 AM  

Conservatives fail to understand that conservatism is profoundly unsatisfying. It runs counter to man's territorial instincts, and counter to his very sense of honor.

It was always a dishonest proposition. Conservatism prevailed among healthy men over the post-war decades because it was always a sleigh-of-hand, an appeal to minorities and immigrants submit to the White empire. It's a workable arrangement when the ratio of host to alien is extremely high. Not so much when the host is getting pushed around and fatally parasited on.

Assimilation and color blindness = intermarriage. No deal, considering the bulk of recent immigrants.

PA

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) September 06, 2016 12:00 PM  

To reclaim our birthright, we need only reclaim the Constitution.

If you continue to spout crap like this and you didn't support Ron Paul in 2008 or 2012, you're a liar.

Blogger residentMoron September 06, 2016 12:04 PM  

"This exceptionalism is found not in its genetic makeup (after all, we fought other white Europeans for our independence) but in a collage of Enlightenment ideas our Founders pulled together to create what became our national portrait."

You dumb stupid fuck.

You fought other white Europeans, because other white Europeans were the only people capable of defeating you, and vice-versa.

Yes, the reason why you didn't have to fight Africans for your independence IS genetic AND cultural.

However, this is not exceptionalism, for you are not exceptional. You are treading a long well-worn path to self-destruction, worn deep and wide by the empires that have trodden it before you.

Oh, yes, there is a tepid temporary sense in which every Emperor is exceptional while he sits the throne above thrones, while he styles himself a king of kings.

But Emperors and empires all die, without exception.

"Exceptionalism" is the stupid shibboleth signifier of your utter banality.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 06, 2016 12:05 PM  

Ho ho, comments on the article have gotten a bit out of control.

Matt SE
Vox Day is a slimy little worm, running a cabal of ass-kissers on his various sites. He got a little notoriety for opposing cultural Marxism in GamerGate and Sci-Fi literary awards, and has parlayed it into a lucrative franchise.
He's the male Ann Coulter, with more racism and less wit.


How long before Federalist shuts down their comments, I wonder?

Blogger SDaly September 06, 2016 12:06 PM  

I've read Protein Wisdom for a long time (probably 15 years). He has a philosophy background and argued strongly against the type of PC grievance-racism policies of the left. He never realized that (1) the other side simply didn't care about his arguments and (2) that the "conservatives" in charge were more interested in avoiding offense than conserving anything. Goldstein put up a good fight for years, but the battle was lost before he even began. I think he doesn't know where to turn now that his philosophy has been ground into dust by that reality.

Blogger Noah B September 06, 2016 12:06 PM  

@13 "Exceptionalism" is the stupid shibboleth signifier of your utter banality.

"Exceptionalism" is just another variant of the criminally stupid "proposition nation" argument.

Blogger Astalnar September 06, 2016 12:07 PM  

This is just ridiculus. Can someone explain what leap in logic is required to get from "enemy of my enemy is my friend" to "enemy of my enemy is my enemy"?

Blogger Nate September 06, 2016 12:07 PM  

"At one point in that circle, the alt-right and the progressive left meet and become of a piece. "

oh God.. yes... more of this circle bullshit.

No. it isn't a circle.

The best political spectrum is a line. On far left is totalitarianism... on the far right is anarchy.

everything else is just chain jerking

Blogger pyrrhus September 06, 2016 12:08 PM  

"To reclaim our birthright, we need only reclaim the Constitution."

I stopped reading there.

Blogger residentMoron September 06, 2016 12:09 PM  

@Noah B

Aye, you have the right of it.

@Astalnar

It's not logic.

It's pride.

Anonymous Thales September 06, 2016 12:14 PM  

"It’s actually an identity movement on par with Black Lives Matter, La Raza, the Council on American-Islamic Relations, and other products of cultural Marxism."

I kinda stopped reading there -- obfuscating parasite and host is definitely a product of "cultural Marxism", and the guy does it right after the headline. I can only imagine how far south the article goes after that...

Anonymous Thales September 06, 2016 12:16 PM  

Jew gonna jewsplain.

My oven-sense is tingling...

Blogger RobertT September 06, 2016 12:16 PM  

It is good when you're mentioned in the preliminary of a widely broadcast opposition article ...

Blogger Shimshon September 06, 2016 12:18 PM  

"Vox Day says the alt-right is conservative."

He is literally wrong from the very first sentence.

Blogger rumpole5 September 06, 2016 12:18 PM  

Except for Maybe Switzerland, the only stable sane countries in this world are those that once flew the Union Jack flag. This almost 100% Kraut/American thinks that the safest bet is for the USA to preserve a critical mass of English stock. THEN we can worry about the constitution that our English Protestant founders wrote for us.

Anonymous Darwin is a Harsh Mistress September 06, 2016 12:18 PM  

It's always the "America: the Fan Club" for them, isn't it? Anyone can join so long as he pays the membership dues. Or maybe not. Whatever. Shekels, schmeckels.

Well pal, my family's been harshing sheople mellow since 1620.

Oh one more thing: do you have your invitation? I need to see it.

Blogger Mocheirge September 06, 2016 12:19 PM  

Thales wrote:"It’s actually an identity movement on par with Black Lives Matter, La Raza, the Council on American-Islamic Relations, and other products of cultural Marxism."

I kinda stopped reading there -- obfuscating parasite and host is definitely a product of "cultural Marxism", and the guy does it right after the headline. I can only imagine how far south the article goes after that...


Y'all're made of sterner stuff than I. I only got as far as "Vox Day says the alt-right is conservative" before I stopped.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 September 06, 2016 12:20 PM  

#NotYourSlave

Blogger slarrow September 06, 2016 12:20 PM  

Goldstein makes two major mistakes here. First, he argues as though making the right labels stick to the alt-right will win his case. You're not really on the right, after all, if we can make you meet the left on some circle or something. Persuasion by definition is #4 on Scott Adams chart with an effectiveness of 0.

The second mistake is that he pretends that Vox hasn't written on each of his objections in the past year on the origin of the country, the issues with free trade, and the realities of race and culture. It's a dishonest presentation that takes advantage of his readership who won't be familiar with Vox's recent work. Weak.

Oh, well, at least we'll always have the Martha Stewart Chronicles.

Blogger Keith September 06, 2016 12:20 PM  

"This exceptionalism is found not in its genetic makeup...but in a collage of Enlightenment ideas our Founders pulled together to create what became our national portrait."

¿Porque no las dos?

Anonymous Faze Klan September 06, 2016 12:21 PM  

The left gave up on equality a long time ago and switched over to virulent anti-white identity politics. It's ironic that these sad sack loser conservatives are the only ones left that still believe it's possible to build and sustain a nation based on commonly agreed upon words. The left still mouth those platitudes, but their actions are consistently "Whitey has to go". As usual, it's one side playing by the rules, the other side taking scalps.

Blogger Shimshon September 06, 2016 12:21 PM  

Two references to RINO (since when does anyone use that archaic term?) but nothing for Cuckservative. Hmm, triggered much?

OpenID paworldandtimes September 06, 2016 12:22 PM  

Except for Maybe Switzerland, the only stable sane countries in this world are those that once flew the Union Jack flag.

Prime minister Orban and his peers at V4 would like to have a word with you.

PA

Blogger VD September 06, 2016 12:22 PM  

He is literally wrong from the very first sentence.

Exactly. It doesn't get much better from there. But, as I said, it is both illuminating and informative concerning how the Judeo-conservatives are reacting to the Alt-Right.

Anonymous Darth Catalyst September 06, 2016 12:24 PM  

He couldn't resist that parting shot about incest and banjos--that's how much they hate organic white communities. I guess the only way to avoid "incest," in his expansive definition of that term, is to find someone as different from you as possible to breed with, like the Australian aborigines. Of course, if these globalist types got what they wanted, they'd eventually be faced with the same problem: those coffee-colored "New Men" that get produced when the world is "one big happy" family will be "incestuous" until we find some mates from Zeta Reticuli.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) September 06, 2016 12:25 PM  

It looks like the protein wisdom archives got deleted, so it's more difficult to find out his 2008/2012 positions.

From Vanity Fair in 2012: "Jeff Goldstein of Protein Wisdom flirted with Michelle Bachmann and is now rationalizing Rick Santorum’s culture warrioring against abortion and contraception."

Anonymous Trimegistus September 06, 2016 12:25 PM  

It's easy to see why a casual reader might see similarities between the alt-right and the old Left. You do see a lot of the same words: anti-corporation, anti-U.S. military power, dismissal of democracy as a sham, etc. The fact that one group claims to be defending Western Civilization while the other wants to abolish it may seem to be so much window-dressing if the policy proposals are nearly identical.

And to be honest, that's a problem I have with some alt-right ideas, too. If you want to toss out the American Constitution, then you're not conserving anything, you're creating a new society . . . which is just what the Left wants to do.

That looks an awful lot like two rival Left movements, differing only in the specific form of the new society they want to create on a pile of skulls.

Anonymous MMX2010 September 06, 2016 12:25 PM  

In a Twitter exchange, Jeff Goldstein revealed that he used to live in a Black neighborhood, but moved to Colorado.

When he was told that he "rejected criminality" (his words) by moving from a Black neighborhood to a White one, he replied, "Sorry I grew up and left my parent's house, but that's the kind of thing my generation did."

So he can't even accept the truth about his life choices, which would suggest that White culture is better than Black culture. Which would suggest that closed borders are better than open ones.

Anonymous MMX2010 September 06, 2016 12:26 PM  

Which part of the Constitution are the Alt-right throwing out?

Blogger Salt September 06, 2016 12:28 PM  

"Vox Day says the alt-right is conservative."

His lead in is a lie and sets the tone for what follows.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) September 06, 2016 12:28 PM  

More from vanity fair: "For some reason, McCain neglected to add Protein Wisdom’s Jeff Goldstein to the Santorum club, maybe because Protein Wisdom is so negligible even on the right these days.l

Anonymous Broken Arrow September 06, 2016 12:31 PM  

So is he confused, or just setting up a straw man Alt-Right to defeat in his article?

Blogger pyrrhus September 06, 2016 12:31 PM  

An excellent essay on why this is the Flight 93 election. http://www.claremont.org/crb/basicpage/the-flight-93-election/

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) September 06, 2016 12:31 PM  

From 2008:

"Jeff Goldstein, Protien Wisdom:
I will not, will not, vote for John McCain.
I will not, will not, vote for Mike Huckabee.
I will not, will not, vote for Ron Paul – unless he runs for Fuhrer. In which case, he’s got my full support."

Blogger Dave September 06, 2016 12:32 PM  

Judeo-conservatives

Nice.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 06, 2016 12:32 PM  

Nate wrote:There is no good conservative argument against nationalism.

"It's not good for the Jews" is the only one they ever come round to. Oh, and "you're a poopyhead."

Blogger Solaire Of Astora September 06, 2016 12:32 PM  

How can these people write these long ass essays about the constitutional system while ignoring the founders themselves saying immigration would undermine the principles held by the original population? I mean God damn, they can't get over themselves for the space of time required to read one fucking sentence from any one of those guys? It's mind fucking blowing.

Blogger pyrrhus September 06, 2016 12:34 PM  

@35 Of course, the incest (no banjos) is actually being imported in great quantity with muslims and hindus....

Blogger Culture War Draftee September 06, 2016 12:35 PM  

Edmund Burke's conservatism wasn't very interested in nationalism, but that's because nationalism was barely on the map in an era of monarchies that were either sub-national (the Kingdom of Wurtemburg) or imperial (the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, not counting the remaining American colonies, India, etc.).

A big part of Burke's thesis is that rights are expressions of government which emerge from experience and tradition. I don't think he was impressed by Locke too much.

But, I think Burke agreed with Locke and the American rebels that when a constitutional government is undermined by the rulers in a clear pattern tending towards the imposition of absolute rule (eg a long train of abuses), then resistance is a form of constitutionalism.

Electing a new people by subverting immigration law through overt action (executive orders) and inaction (ignoring illegals) is a serious milestone on any train of abuses. It literally undercuts the whole posterity part of the Constitution. If you don’t believe me, check out Joe Biden boasting about how whites will soon be a minority thanks to immigration. If we can’t remedy this under the law and the Constitution (and I think Trump can make a start in halting the abuse), then we’re back on some much more difficult options where little-c constitutionalism has to improvise.

TL, DR as far as I'm concerned, the alt-right ARE the defenders of the constitution.

Anonymous Dale Warner September 06, 2016 12:35 PM  

The worship of the current US Constitution is a deeply flawed suggestion to anyone who knows the history of how this Constitution came to replace the original US Constitution. Much fuss has been made about the Philadelphia Panel that met in secret, after having been assigned the task by the Continental Congress to come up with a list of proposed amendments to reform or upgrade the original Constitution.

The Philadelphia Panel took it on itself to simply draft a new text and declare the way it could be ratified by state conventions and how many such approvals were required to enact the new US Constitution. In short, it was a coup from the top to overthrow the body of law that guided the US through a war against the most powerful monarch in the world at that time, to deliberate and negotiate the peace treaty, and to organize the Northwest Territory. What we were taught about the wonderful Philadelphia Panel was nothing but a disguise of the first top-down revolt in US history against the British common law and parliamentary (congressional form of government) and the institution of the French system of purely intellectual goodthink that has riven the nation and destroyed its original revolution against one-man rule, exchanging monarchy for a manifestly greater power vested in a presidency.

Frankly, if the current US Constitution has worn out it potency, it is time to look at the governmental struction that it elbowed out of the way in a completely lawless fashion.

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros September 06, 2016 12:35 PM  

Saw red when he snidely says that the reason White people want racial separation is to protect White culture from the siren call of jazz and sushi. Nothing to do with not wanting White children to be raped to death by Sand People as Aztecs violently reconquer the Southwest and Black Lives Matter edges more and more into explicit racial pogroms, no sir.

I'm guessing the reason he dismisses it with a snide joke is because honestly stating what we actually believe, even to attack it, makes us look good. "OK, so your political movement wants to prevent children from being gang-raped, but have you considered that the classical liberalism muh-constitution omelet is worth it?"

And of course he had to end with a random insult that makes no damn sense, but reveals that Whites keeping to themselves really bothers him. "Ehehe, goy, don't you think White people only wanting to reproduce with other Whites is sort of vaguely like incest? You should let a bunch of civilization-destroying child rapists into your country instead. That's not like incest at ALL."

Blogger pyrrhus September 06, 2016 12:35 PM  

I forgot to mention muslim pedophilia, which is a feature, not a bug...

Blogger Brian S September 06, 2016 12:36 PM  

good luck with that constitutional republic in a country over run by people who would rather live under sharia

Blogger Salt September 06, 2016 12:37 PM  

The guy's a lapsed academic, lives in Colorado, favors '79 cabernet, likes tacos, and his favorite color is magenta. He needs to quit the sewing circle and get out more.

Blogger ValeriusMaximus September 06, 2016 12:39 PM  

The conservative plan for victory, convince everyone to become individualists and accept the Constitution. Wouldn't this be the same failed strategy employed for the last 50 years? Come on goys, it will really work this time!

As an aside, they need to get a better editor, perhaps one that knows what the word overdetermined means.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan September 06, 2016 12:39 PM  

Drudge is running an article about college dorm segregation for blacks, good for them.

Anonymous Faceless September 06, 2016 12:44 PM  

@37

The Alt-Right invokes the power of the Congress in Article I to absolutely control this nation's immigration law. The Supreme Court has tried to destroy parts of the Constitution; not even they pretend that everyone, everywhere has a right to be an American.

Perhaps you're just angry that the Alt-Right is rejecting the legal fictions built by the Supreme Court and popular mythology and asserted to be the true constitution, such as the idea that the Bill of Rights applies to non-citizens outside this country's jurisdiction?

Blogger J Van Stry September 06, 2016 12:44 PM  

I couldn't get past the first paragraph. Our system was not designed for assimilation and naturalization.

Anonymous IsRaHoWaEl September 06, 2016 12:45 PM  

@2 My first argument against mansplaining (to a SJW listed womyn, no less) was four years ago.

>jewsplain

Four years. Not bad. I warned them.

Blogger Al Cibiades September 06, 2016 12:45 PM  

"Our system was designed for assimilation and naturalization." SOURCE!!!?!?!

Blogger Phelps September 06, 2016 12:48 PM  

If we were really leftists they would have already surrendered to us.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 06, 2016 12:51 PM  

(((goldstein))) is a house-husband. His wife is a high-powered executive, off earning the money and getting laid while he raises their son and keeps the house.

He was pretty much read out of the conservative movement years and years ago for being an asshole about his academic definition of Constitutional Originalism. He and Patterico have had a feud going for a long time.

I commented once at his blog, told him he was being an overwrought drama queen about some esoteric piece of neocon bullshit he was obsessing over. The crowd there immediately deduced that I was an OUTSIDER, a communist, a neo-con, a post-modernist, a racist, a fascist and a Democrat.

The whole place is a bizarre echo chamber, worse than Mark Shea's, suffused with paranoia and more than a little midwit fucktardery.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 06, 2016 12:52 PM  

Ezekiel Cassandros wrote:Saw red when he snidely says that the reason White people want racial separation is to protect White culture from the siren call of jazz and sushi.
I had to read that three times to figure out you weren't talking to me.

Blogger Yemi Fawehinmi September 06, 2016 12:53 PM  

"To reclaim our birthright, we need only reclaim the Constitution."

This is a Laugh out loud statement. But at the same time, it sounds like a confession that the Constitution has no intrinsic power to preserve America or change people.

Blogger Anchorman September 06, 2016 12:55 PM  

Couple things jump at me.

First, Trump is supported by the alt-Right. He's not emblematic of it or the full representation of it. I don't know anyone who is enthusiastic about Trump's entire shifting platform. However, his most pronounced positions resonate with the alt-Right.

Next, he makes a common mistake regarding free trade. First, he assumes anyone not completely onboard with free trade is against the free market. He assumes maximum restrictions, higher tariffs, etc. It's a very black/white view of economic policy and it's a view that has forced the US into bad treaties, lest people think we don't like free(dom) markets.

He also shows an inability to understand the differences between the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Written for different purposes, for different audiences.

Folks need to read the Declaration of Independence before opining on it.

Anonymous patrick kelly September 06, 2016 12:56 PM  

"If you want to toss out the American Constitution, then you're not conserving anything, you're creating a new society "

What part of the alt-right is not conservative and doesn't claim to be do you not understand?

Blogger buwaya September 06, 2016 12:58 PM  

"Our system was designed for assimilation and naturalization. The complete corruption of that system and the usurpation of its intent by those who redefine it in the terms of transnational progressivism are largely responsible for the resurgence of the white nationalism"

In this he is correct, but not complete. Its not just the nursing of factions going on here, but the centralization of the spoils of faction, through the bureaucracy and the large part of the private sector they influence and control. If there is nothing to gain from factions they will be weak. As there is a large payoff they are strong and getting stronger, moreso as the legitimate economy is in poor shape, and everything is closer to a zero-sum game.

There wouldn't be an Alt-Right of any significance without the general corruption of the system and its economic results. You are a consequence, the moved, not the movers. In that also Goldstein is right.

That you all have taken up a sort of exclusivist tribalism is distressing (to me) as a Catholic. This is entirely opposed to my worldview of Christendom as a single "side". But it was bound to happen, just like a typhoon will come when it comes.

The other, and rather important, place where he is wrong is forgetting the basic pessimism of conservatism. There is no recovery from a corrupted system without a collapse.

The trivial error he makes is assuming that complaining about anything will do any good. That is just the hubris of the scribbler. He and however many pundits can't even exorcise you, much less fix anything else.

Blogger dc.sunsets September 06, 2016 1:01 PM  

Conservatism failed the moment it began to include the Rainbow Coalition as part of that which was to be conserved. His conservative is just "conserving" the Left Cult narrative.

Are clowns like this aware they're inverting the meaning of words, or are they too clueless to recognize their own adoption of Newspeak?

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus September 06, 2016 1:03 PM  

and his favorite color is magenta

You know what magenta is, right?

Pink for faggots.

Blogger HonorLiving September 06, 2016 1:05 PM  

I'm reaching a point where I genuinely do not know what conservatives actually mean when they say something like "reclaiming the constitution". Only a person who truly believes that a man completely makes himself could hold the view that, through discussion and dialogue, millions of immigrant could be turned into "principled conservatives".

Do they not realize (they don't) that our worldview is largely the result of the historical process, that we do not chose, nor are we likely to change, our worldview once it has been given to us? Do they have any evidence that "conversation" and "dialogue" is what determine people's mind and, if so, how do they plan to implement these processes exactly? Am I supposed to believe that blacks overwhelmingly vote one way because of a pure act of intellection, and not because of the milieu in which they were born, a milieu whose determining factors are located in the past, ie. history?

Anonymous CC September 06, 2016 1:08 PM  

But we need recognize this cancer is not necessarily isolated within a given political party. It is opportunistic: in the ’60s, it infiltrated the “bourgeois” Democratic Party the cultural Marxists despised to become the New Left that today controls many of our institutions. As it did so, this long march created a counter-trend we now see bubbling up through cracks in our national foundation.

He's trying to mislead his readers by conflating tactics and goals. He gives his readers some credit by acknowledging that the Alt-Right have legitimate concerns but their attitudes and behaviour mean they're only a step away from far-leftists and just as dangerous. But this is a bit like comparing a cancer to a fever. Both can seem to be just unpleasant sicknesses, but cancer is terminal while a fever is a sign that your body is fighting an infection (chemotherapy might be a better analogy than fever, but it is a bit of a clumsy analogy).

So here he is just someone trying to smear the Alt-Right again, albeit in a more subtle way than just pointing and screaming: "they're RACISTS!"

Does he really believe what he's writing, is he lying or is he just trying to convince himself? I am never sure with these people, they seem to be able to justify any position. In a way it's quite impressive how he tries to muddy something that is actually very clear. Hopefully people reading that article will click through to Vox's post.

His main advice seems to be don't fight back, at least not in a way where you can win. Surrender to the sickness.

Anonymous BGKB September 06, 2016 1:12 PM  

"Individual choice, therefore, must be constrained to only a pre-approved list of choices. Are you a white" gay man that doesn't want to pay more in taxes just because Latrina squatted out 21 crackbabies in NJ?

Yes I would like that choice please. Is telling cuckservatives to bake me a CaKKe while Chester uses the little girls bathroom in poor taste?

"nailing to the doors of Benetton stores like a modern-day Martin Luther."

Such poor imagination, I would have gone with the doors of the (((FED))) reserve.

Blogger Anchorman September 06, 2016 1:14 PM  

BGKB,
It's all about selling it as racissss (United colors of Benneton).

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 06, 2016 1:15 PM  

@60
"Our system was designed for assimilation and naturalization." SOURCE!!!?!?!



Why, the zeroeth Amendment, obviously.

Muh Emma Lazarus! Muh Emma Lazarus!

Blogger Le Regardeur September 06, 2016 1:15 PM  

I see that Phyllis Schlafly has died at the age of 92. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phyllis_Schlafly

In my ways the recent history of Phyllis Schlafly represents what the alt-right is doing. Schlafly supported Trump which split her family. Some of her children sided with her. Others supported Ted Cruz. Schlafly has always been an America firster and leery of free trade, which might explain the Trump support. She supported Pat Buchanan in 1996.

In 2000 Buchanan was the first serious politician on the right to stand up to the Israel lobby and its catamites in the Republican Party:

"The civilized world must win this fight,’ the editors thunder. But, if it comes to war, it will not be the ‘civilized world’ humping up that bloody road to Baghdad; it will be American kids with names like McAllister, Murphy, Gonzales, and Leroy Brown."

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 06, 2016 1:18 PM  

(((goldstein))) is a house-husband. His wife is a high-powered executive, off earning the money and getting laid while he raises HER son and keeps the house.

FIFY.
And again, they appear to have moved to Colorado and away from diversity. Not an accident. Although Denver has its own diversity zone, and La Raza has been colonizing for over 20 years.

OpenID peppermintfrosted September 06, 2016 1:22 PM  

Wanting to win is "leftist", "rightists" want to keep their principles. Wanting to create the conditions for people to have good lives is "leftist", "rightists" want people to live or not OT doesn't matter according to principles.

This is why left and right are dead. Liberals who want censorship. Socialists who hate working class Whites. Social conservatives who love cuckoldry. Fiscal conservatives who like deficit spending.

All these 20th century ideologies are for cucks. The political axis that matters isn't left/right but cuck/racist.

Blogger Arthur Isaac September 06, 2016 1:24 PM  

You say he's a Jew?

More pimpin' someone else's wives?

Blogger August September 06, 2016 1:29 PM  

The 'conservative'/'libertarian' answer for 'racist' white nationalists.
Freedom of association and private property.
Via which, it should be admitted, much of the white nationalist desires could be achieved.

But instead, the libertarians can't even field a candidate who can stay un-stoned long enough to figure out a Christian baker shouldn't have to bake a cake for anyone they don't want to, regardless of whether or not they are in business.

To some extent I do agree the identitarian thing is coming as a response to the programming the cultural Marxists have subjected everyone through the schools. It didn't need to go down this way, but in order for it not to go down this way, you've got to have people who won't leave you at the mercy of the left for decades. I thought school was bad, but have you noticed how these guys- even the right- talk about being triggered?

Isn't this a brainwashing/psy-ops term? Someone is putting the triggers there in the first place, and then later someone does something intended to pull the trigger- cause a reaction. And instead of protecting people from this crap, the conservatives have been letting it happen.

Anonymous tublecane September 06, 2016 1:30 PM  

Our national portrait is a collage? Yuck.

Blogger BassmanCO September 06, 2016 1:32 PM  

The guy's a lapsed academic, lives in Colorado, favors '79 cabernet, likes tacos, and his favorite color is magenta. He needs to quit the sewing circle and get out more.

Hey now, not everyone in Colorado is a fuckehead. In fact, if we could get rid of all these Californians moving here and changing the demographics, Trump would win here in a landslide.

Anonymous kfg September 06, 2016 1:33 PM  

"Conservatives fail to understand that conservatism is profoundly unsatisfying. It runs counter to man's territorial instincts, and counter to his very sense of honor."

Those of the conserving the last generation's leftism share, whether they realize it or not, the left's fascination with the social insects, regarding them as having perfected social structure.

Find an ant colony. Now, find another ant, of the same species, completely identical by any measurement an ant can make to those of the colony, except: it smells ever so slightly different.

Place that ant within the colony's territory.

Observe what happens to it.

Anonymous Philipp September 06, 2016 1:34 PM  

I did not bother to read the article because I don't care what he has to say.

OpenID denektenorsk September 06, 2016 1:36 PM  

How does it feel to be both a leader of GamerGate AND the Alt-Right? When do you have time to sleep?

Anonymous Elijah Rhodes September 06, 2016 1:36 PM  

It's very telling that the majority of the comments at the linked article are pro Alt-Right. Amazing how fast this political realignment is happening. The Cucks should be worried. Very, very worried.

OpenID aew51183 September 06, 2016 1:40 PM  

This guy whining about "muh toxic identitarianism" should have done a better job aggressively combating it (and the mass immigration which produces it) if he didn't want the Alt-Right to crush his contingent of "true conservatives" like a bug.

Now it's too-little too late.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr September 06, 2016 1:41 PM  

@49:

Interesting point. When I was taking Naval War College courses, they made a sharp distinction between a nation (a group of people with a common language and culture) and a state (fundamental unit of the Westphalian system, characterized by independence of action). The nation-state is a relatively new development.

Blogger tz September 06, 2016 1:42 PM  

Ok, which "conservatives" were for abolishing the welfare state in the next term?
Even the above quotes Milton Friedman that you can't have both a welfare state and open borders.
Trump will quickly end the latter.

Immigrants don't arrive pre-assimilated, and where have the conservatives been on english-only and the rest.

My response is - fix and prevent all the problems open borders has caused and continues to cause and we can then tear down Trumps wall? Why does Israel have a wall?

Blogger Robert Divinity September 06, 2016 1:42 PM  

To some extent I do agree the identitarian thing is coming as a response to the programming the cultural Marxists have subjected everyone through the schools. It didn't need to go down this way, but in order for it not to go down this way, you've got to have people who won't leave you at the mercy of the left for decades.

The reaction was inevitable. White people were unprotected, with Social Justice Warrior exceptions (and they, too, have started to become vulnerable to pogroms at the hands of vibrants). So the old Democratic Party ditched the white working and lower middle classes some times ago, and the Right never really sided with them but used "social" wedge issues such as the fraudulent pro-life movement to woo them. That bloody shirt has failed now. For most Alt-Right and supporters, it is matter more of simple survival than it is philosophy.

Short version: nature abhors a vacuum.

I thought school was bad, but have you noticed how these guys- even the right- talk about being triggered?

"Conservatives" probably get more authentic vapors these days as the communists.

Anonymous CatholicOne September 06, 2016 1:46 PM  

This exceptionalism is found not in its genetic makeup (after all, we fought other white Europeans for our independence) but in a collage of Enlightenment ideas...

So conservatism is rooted in the anti-Catholic and liberal Enlightenment ideas? And I suppose the French Revolution was a conservative movement worthy of praise. This just shows that a modern conservative has no principle objection to liberalism.

Blogger Ingot9455 September 06, 2016 1:50 PM  

To add on to @62, the hilarious thing is that after he was read out of the Conservative Movement, they come running to him for an essay to attack Vox Day!

I recall enjoying his blog many years ago but after the 'reading out' he posted less and less and with none of the amusement he used to have. It became just occasional news-posts by a guest blogger, and had no point.

It's a great example of the GOP trying to drag in the old warrior for one last 'heroic' campaign... after they were the ones who kicked him out to the pasture in the first place!

And after his epic feuds with Patterico about 'intentionalism' and how the Left redefines words to be nothing... now Patterico has a ball-washing post out in favor of his recent essay.

Anonymous BGKB September 06, 2016 1:50 PM  

and his favorite color is magenta You know what magenta is, right? Pink for faggots.

NAFALT mine is electric blue.

reason White people want racial separation is to protect White culture from the siren call of jazz and sushi.

Jazz can be delivered over the internet and sushi prepared via recipe

Anonymous tublecane September 06, 2016 1:54 PM  

I enjoy watching the contortions and working through the pretzel logic required to turn the alt-right into cultural Marxism when it is about the only that matters left fighting against it. Conservatism, meanwhile, which has adopted pretty much every principle of Political Correctness--though it doesn't like it--is supposedly cultural Marxism's true enemy. Though it's not fighting it.

Why? "Identity politics." Let us not be crucified on a cross of identity politics. You know what? They work. There's nothing wrong with them, in themselves, and they are not inherently Marxist. Why, just because commies pushed the civil rights movement? Does that mean political parties, newsletters, speeches, campaigns, rallies, etc. are communist? Because communists did those, too.

Blogger J A Baker September 06, 2016 1:55 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous kfg September 06, 2016 1:57 PM  

"The nation-state is a relatively new development."

And it's fundamental cause was common defence against expansionist Islam.

Plus ça change, and all that jazz.

Blogger Robert Divinity September 06, 2016 1:59 PM  

This comment from the linked Federalist piece made me smile:

There is the intellectual/pseudo-intellectual Alt-Right (Vox Day) and then there is the mass of people seduced, influenced, and manipulated by the Alt-Right to varying degrees. The second group is my concern. And people like Ann Coulter make matters much worse by playing footsie with the Alt-Right and confusing them with conservatism in the minds of the less informed and engaged among us. Sadly, even D.C. McAllister (frequent Federalist contributor) has, I believe, fallen into this trap (Twitter is a bad place that poisons all who enter). But I do think there are many folks worth reaching out to in the Alt-Right world. Especially the misguided.

IOW, the message has gotten through and is being widely accepted, although this guy still thinks there are "misguided" people who can be brought back to Big Conservatism, Inc., and RightThink.

Mission partially accomplished.

Anonymous grey enlightenment September 06, 2016 2:02 PM  

I thought protein wisdom was some sort of fitness site. now it's defunct having been hacked lol

Anonymous Joe Blowe September 06, 2016 2:03 PM  

Fighting Judeo-Masonic Globalism with "Muh Constitution" is like bringing a knife to a tank fight. The Constitution comes back after we re-establish Western Civilization. Maybe.

Blogger VD September 06, 2016 2:03 PM  

How does it feel to be both a leader of GamerGate AND the Alt-Right?

All I really concern myself with is the Evil Legion of Evil, to be honest. Everything else really just falls into place so long as that is running smoothly.

Blogger pyrrhus September 06, 2016 2:05 PM  

@93 "Why, just because commies pushed the civil rights movement?"
Actually, liberal northeastern Republicans and various commies pushed civil rights legislation, while segregationist democrats opposed it en masse. Republicans just can't wait to find something not to conserve......

Blogger Alexamenos September 06, 2016 2:05 PM  

"Why? "Identity politics." Let us not be crucified on a cross of identity politics. You know what? They work."

@tublecane

Indeed. Forswearing tribal politics and holding up the Constitution as defender of all things American seems analogous to hanging a "Gun Free Zone" sign on the wall and declaring peace.

Anonymous kfg September 06, 2016 2:09 PM  

" . . .the misguided."

As per my comment in a previous thread, I was not misguided toward the alt-right. I was guided, like a missile. One might even say launched.

One minute I was walking around, quite content to mind my own business and allow everyone else to mind theirs, and the next minute . . .

Anonymous Ironsides September 06, 2016 2:31 PM  

The fundamental error of the cuckservatives is that they think the Constitution functions independently of human input. That it is a Sacred Text that will imprint its truth perfectly upon Anglo-Saxons, Bantu, Han, Andaman Islanders, and for that matter Klingons, Kzinti, the Fungi from Yuggoth, or a colony of sapient ants.

In fact, the Constitution requires a specific environment to function. That environment is provided by a white English-speaking supermajority and a general Anglo-Saxon cultural background. The NATURE of these people is such that the Constitution functions when THEY are running it. It corresponds to both their genetic and historical traits, so it more or less works while they completely control the environment where it is used as the law of the land.

The Constitution is at best an engine -- an engine requiring specialized fuel (white Anglo-Saxon English-speaking supermajority) to run as intended. Without that, it can no more run correctly than an engine designed for rocket fuel can function properly on diesel, gasoline, kerosene -- or water, for that matter.

Dilute the "fuel" (people) and the "engine" (Constitution) starts to function below its specified output. It starts to turn over slowly, run unevenly, and stall when put under pressure. Continue putting adulterated fuel into it and it will seize up and eventually die irretrievably. We can see right now that it is not running correctly -- the stalls are constant and the results are disastrous. To say "but it's such a perfect engine! Surely it will run correctly if we fill the tank with paint thinner, too!" is insanity -- but that's exactly the position of the cuckservatives regarding the Constitution.
---------------
TL:DR: The Constitution only works if an overwhelming majority think in a way that corresponds to it. It worked for a while because it matched the mindset of the people inhabiting the country. Now that this mindset is being drastically diluted demographically, the Constitution no longer -- and cannot -- work as intended.

Anonymous IndecisiveEvidence September 06, 2016 2:34 PM  

Six months ago I used to be the biggest pro-Jew, pro-Israel supporter out there. Thought they were great people, just like us but with a funny religion.

Seeing these people argue on twitter, every one of them with the same autistic attempts to win by definition and not much else... SAME PATTERNS up and down the parentheses!

No wonder Goldstein's life's work is in linguistics. He thinks he can win by defining the problems away permanently for everyone.

OpenID peppermintfrosted September 06, 2016 2:37 PM  

VD can be a leader of GG and Alt-Right because he appears to be unique in having the self-awareness to understand these movements and publish books about them. This isn't hard to understand and in the future the fact that VD is the only one doing VD stuff will be as hard to understand as how unserious all the mainstream political philosophy was at the end of the 20th century.

Anonymous High tech Redneck September 06, 2016 2:39 PM  

In a twitter comment later on he describes the "willingness to adhere to the social compact enshrined in the Constitution" as a better heuristic than race. I find this interesting since in all of my readings of the document I've never seen any discussion of a social compact (which is itself an Enlightenment lie). Maybe he found it in some emanation of a penumbra from the third clause of the Zeroeth Amendment.

Anonymous kfg September 06, 2016 2:41 PM  

@103:

I understand the analogy you are going for, but:

" . . .gasoline, kerosene -- or water . . ."

Are all rocket fuels (or perhaps more accurately reaction masses), and diesel can be refined a step further to make rocket fuel out of it.

Just sayin', and now I'll nerd sperg out of here

OpenID peppermintfrosted September 06, 2016 2:44 PM  

http://i.imgur.com/wemaIfZ.jpg

Anonymous Philipp September 06, 2016 2:54 PM  

@43: I read the article you linked to. It is excellent indeed.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 06, 2016 2:56 PM  

Alexamenos wrote:Indeed. Forswearing tribal politics and holding up the Constitution as defender of all things American seems analogous to hanging a "Gun Free Zone" sign on the wall and declaring peace.

Good analogy. Here's a meme.

Anonymous JAG September 06, 2016 2:56 PM  

Trimegistus wrote:It's easy to see why a casual reader might see similarities between the alt-right and the old Left. You do see a lot of the same words: anti-corporation, anti-U.S. military power, dismissal of democracy as a sham, etc. The fact that one group claims to be defending Western Civilization while the other wants to abolish it may seem to be so much window-dressing if the policy proposals are nearly identical.

And to be honest, that's a problem I have with some alt-right ideas, too. If you want to toss out the American Constitution, then you're not conserving anything, you're creating a new society . . . which is just what the Left wants to do.

That looks an awful lot like two rival Left movements, differing only in the specific form of the new society they want to create on a pile of skulls.



What total horseshit.

Take five policy positions that the marxist left and the Alt-Right agree upon. Don't try to escape with that bullshit about getting rid of the Constitution, give us actual defined policy positions that are in total agreement. I seriously doubt you can even describe one competently.

Anonymous Bowman September 06, 2016 2:58 PM  

I like that part :
"Our “right” — conservatism or classical liberalism —is dead-center on our spectrum"
Perfect summary of their vacuum of ideology. They see themselves as "center" in the spectrum. Center between good and evil. Center between property & plunder. Center between right and left.

Blogger ZaijiaN September 06, 2016 3:03 PM  

I've long followed Jeff via his blog and twitter. Like many conservatives pundits, he is able to attack and dismantle leftists with ease and often with much vigor.

The major difference between him and VD is that Jeff is a true believer; he believes that The Constitution is still viable, whereas VD claims that it is not.

I too lack the confidence that today's electorate would ever be able to fully abide by The Constitution, so I am drawn to practical solutions: hence, Trump.

Trump is not "conservative" in any contemporary sense of the word, and it is from that lack of ideological purity that Jeff seems to draw most of his ire.

But since The Constitution is not salvageable at this time, I can forgive ideological impurities as long as we accomplish "conservative" goals. I don't care so much that Trump might not believe the right things, as long as he is achieving the same objectives.

When the makeup of the electorate is such that the The Constitution and rule of law is fully restored, then perhaps we can worry about ideological purity, and Jeff can see his Constitutionalist dreams come to life. Then again, even if that Utopia did come to pass, we'd probably just go through this same cycle all over again.

What was it Ben Franklin said? "A Republic, if you can keep it." And that's the rub.

Blogger James Dixon September 06, 2016 3:13 PM  

> If you want to toss out the American Constitution, then you're not conserving anything, you're creating a new society . . . which is just what the Left wants to do.

And what good has the Constitution done the last 150 years? What good is a document that no one pays any attention to?

Show us how the Constitution can fix things, then we can talk. Right now it's been co-opted to be part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Anonymous Maximo Macaroni September 06, 2016 3:28 PM  

First Moldbug, then Protein Wisdom. This is like a long nightmare. Who's next? Carlyle? Goethe? Oh, that's right, they don't have blogs. All my idols are in the dust. Actually, they left me. I just hope no one starts dissing Lord Acton or I will be lost.

Blogger Unknown September 06, 2016 3:34 PM  

The blogger behind Protein Wisdom needs to read this:

http://www.claremont.org/crb/basicpage/the-flight-93-election/

That guy gets it.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd September 06, 2016 3:34 PM  

Trimegistus wrote:. If you want to toss out the American Constitution, then you're not conserving anything, you're creating a new society . . . which is just what the Left wants to do.


The constitution was tossed out during Mr. Lincoln's War. After that, its mummy was used as a fig leaf for Progressivism. At this point, the best thing for the country, and the best way to show respect for the remains of the constitution, might be to give it a decent burial.

We don't want to toss out the constitution - that happened 150 years ago. We do want to stop pretending that the constitution hasn't been tossed out.

Anonymous VFM #6306 September 06, 2016 3:43 PM  

The stupid makes my brain hurt. Where'd he learn to think? OuchWits?

Anonymous YorHost September 06, 2016 3:45 PM  

The NYT got it right when they identified the AR as nothing new. Just white supremacists with no intellectual foundations. Sort of the Turrettes Syndrome Party.

Anonymous Thomas777 September 06, 2016 3:46 PM  

This is an old favorite of Jewish NeoCons - Allan Bloom was one of its early proponents/architects. ''The Closing of the American Mind'' is a seminal screed in this regard - Bloom alleges for several hundred pages that Continental philosophers of the Right that were/are historically esteemed by Goyische nationalists (Heidegger, Nietzsche, Fichte, etc.) were/are in fact occulted ''liberals'' and ''communists'', and that 'cultural relativism' in reality was perpetuated by National Socialists, Fascists, America Firsters who were 'tolerant' of the amorality of non-whites and cultural and racial aliens. You see, Jewish one-worldism is actually ''conservative'' because it holds all men to the same (purportedly elevated) standard. We're all a bunch of filthy, permissive, immoral 'liberals' for suggesting differences exist between say Whites and Africans.

Anonymous Ironsides September 06, 2016 3:51 PM  

Actually, I realize that this will be an immensely unpopular stance here... but I think the Constitution actually has some slight use left, despite being massively compromised.

The First and Second Amendments have prevented the U.S. from going full Marxist in the manner of Europe.

Without those, people would be facing 20 year prison sentences for Pepe memes or writing 99% of the stuff that alt-right people, including myself, write -- or $400,000 fines, or whatever. And Whites would be totally disarmed, faced by a horde of brown that loathes them.

I can't see how the alt-right could have gotten off the ground without the damaged, but still present, freedom of speech in the United States.

I'm not saying that the Constitution is the FIX here, because it clearly isn't. But I still think that it has preserved a couple of key legal concepts utterly lacking in Europe's totalitarianism which may provide a springboard for eventually reestablishing an ethnostate.

Without the ability to say basically anything without being arrested, and the confidence that being armed produces, it would be almost impossible to create a non-clandestine alt-right movement.

Anonymous Ted Speaks September 06, 2016 3:53 PM  

"VD can be a leader of GG and Alt-Right"

No. He can't be. He isn't white and, therefore has no capacity to understand the values of English common law at the heart of our founding. We are all better off with him outside our country so that he doesn't contribute his savagery to the public discourse.

Anonymous Thomas777 September 06, 2016 3:55 PM  

Amendment I and II didn't prevent Sam Francis from getting fired blacklisted or Randy Weaver from having his family massacred. If elite power (government or private actor) determines you're a 'racist', you'll be destroyed promptly - America is a more politically complicated culture than East Germany was or the PRC is today; it destroys people without merely resorting to brute lawlessness and/or locking people in jail for political reasons (although it does do that too - ask Matt Hale or a Guantanamo detainee if their Due Process rights have been scrupulously honored by their antagonists - that is if they are allowed to receive mail at all).

Anonymous VFM #6306 September 06, 2016 3:56 PM  

Ironsides, your theory is terribly flawed. The alt-right is MUCH better established in Europe than the U.S.

Anonymous PAC September 06, 2016 4:01 PM  

The Alt-Right doesn't conserve, it reconquers.

RECONQUISTA is our call and banner.

Anonymous Ironsides September 06, 2016 4:02 PM  

Okay, I'm clearly an idiot and will shut up now.

Though I'm still glad that whites in this country haven't been disarmed. I'm probably wrong there, also, though.

Blogger ace September 06, 2016 4:03 PM  

Ironsides wrote:The fundamental error of the cuckservatives is that they think the Constitution functions independently of human input. [...]

The Constitution is at best an engine -- an engine requiring specialized fuel (white Anglo-Saxon English-speaking supermajority) to run as intended. Without that, it can no more run correctly than an engine designed for rocket fuel can function properly on diesel, gasoline, kerosene -- or water, for that matter.

Dilute the "fuel" (people) and the "engine" (Constitution) starts to function below its specified output. It starts to turn over slowly, run unevenly, and stall when put under pressure. Continue putting adulterated fuel into it and it will seize up and eventually die irretrievably. We can see right now that it is not running correctly -- the stalls are constant and the results are disastrous. To say "but it's such a perfect engine! Surely it will run correctly if we fill the tank with paint thinner, too!" is insanity -- but that's exactly the position of the cuckservatives regarding the Constitution.


Exactly.

Anonymous Trimegistus September 06, 2016 4:12 PM  

All right, JAG, here's five things the alt-right and the Left seem to agree on:

1. Withdrawing US military presence abroad
2. Punitive measures against corporations and "the rich"
3. Opposed to profits from finance
4. Anti-Israel
5. Protectionism and anti-offshoring

And a few more, because I always give my bitches extra:

6. Soft on "strongman" regimes abroad
7. Soft on anti-U.S. regimes in general
8. Want to somehow magically "get money out of politics"
9. Scornful of "consumerism"
10. Rejection of the idea that America should be global hegemon

Now, note: I actually do understand that there's a difference between the alt-right and the Left, especially regarding race and feminism, but as one who remembers the Cold War and the fall of the Berlin Wall I can't really work up much enthusiasm for abandoning the world to Russian gangsters and Chinese Communists.

Blogger VD September 06, 2016 4:13 PM  

No. He can't be. He isn't white and, therefore has no capacity to understand the values of English common law at the heart of our founding. We are all better off with him outside our country so that he doesn't contribute his savagery to the public discourse.

Demonstrating that you don't understand the difference between macro and micro, or between mean and outlier, doesn't speak well for your ability to understand anything.

Blogger tz September 06, 2016 4:17 PM  

My respect for Molyneux grows since he understands the difference between principles and making things work in the real world.

The cuckservatives and libertarians are similar in that they create sets of rules and play by them because "they are right". At the same time they have no answer when real people refuse to act that way.

Liberals too, but reality corrects their errors, painfully as in Venezuela.

One of the most profound things Vox has said on the issue is that you would require a far more totalitarian though crimes enforcement unit - enforcing the "Constitution" - than any deportation.

And they often use a switcheroo - maybe motte and bailey - between the living document dead letter Ginsberg constitution, and the originalist Scalia version, much less the pre-Wilsonian version.

A simple test is where the right to gay marriage is contained within it. (Thomas - apparently a double-stuf oreo - wrote a scathing dissent over the unpredictability and inconsistency of "constitutional rights" now).

Anonymous Philipp September 06, 2016 4:27 PM  

@127: "seem to agree"....

"but as one who remembers the Cold War and the fall of the Berlin Wall I can't really work up much enthusiasm for abandoning the world to Russian gangsters and Chinese Communists."

Go away. You have not grasped anything about the Alt-Right.

Anonymous MMX2010 September 06, 2016 4:36 PM  

After further Twitter probing, he's stuck on his invented word "racialism", which (I think) means, "the use of scientifically correct generalizations about race, IQ, and crime to promote segregation."

He believes we shouldn't be "racialists" because there are "other factors" that explain those correlations.

Blogger James Dixon September 06, 2016 4:40 PM  

OK, speaking for myself only, and realizing I don't speak for the entire alt-right.

> All right, JAG, here's five things the alt-right and the Left seem to agree on:

> 1. Withdrawing US military presence abroad

Not a position of the current left. I suspect it would be a position of the alt-right eventually, but we're not at that point yet.

> 2. Punitive measures against corporations and "the rich"

Not a position of the alt-right.

> 3. Opposed to profits from finance

Not a position of the current left (though they will pretend it is on occasion). At best a misstatement of the true alt-right position.

> 4. Anti-Israel

The alt-right is not anti-Israel. An argument can be made the the left observably is.

> 5. Protectionism and anti-offshoring

One out of five isn't a passing grade.

> And a few more, because I always give my bitches extra:

> 6. Soft on "strongman" regimes abroad

Even if true, what business is it of ours?

> 7. Soft on anti-U.S. regimes in general

Even if true, what business is it of ours?

> 8. Want to somehow magically "get money out of politics"

Where did you pull this one from? The alt-right has no such illusions.

> 9. Scornful of "consumerism"

Not a position of the alt-right.

> 10. Rejection of the idea that America should be global hegemon

Another one out of five. You're not improving any.

Seriously, read Vox's article on what the alt-right is: https://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/08/what-alt-right-is.html

Blogger Dexter September 06, 2016 4:49 PM  

Our system was designed for assimilation and naturalization.

Wait, WTF? The guy is WRONG right out the gate. Stop reading right there.

Blogger Lovekraft September 06, 2016 4:57 PM  

The Federalist. Never heard of it. Is it worth our time?

Anonymous WinstonWebb September 06, 2016 4:59 PM  

Our system was designed for assimilation and naturalization.

Wait, WTF? The guy is WRONG right out the gate. Stop reading right there.

Nah, just Black Knight it. Like so:

Our system was designed for assimilation and naturalization...and slavery.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 06, 2016 5:13 PM  

So what is the proper conservative response to leprosy in a grade school?

Something measured, and compassionate, and "welcome the stranger" & stuff, I'm sure.

Blogger Christopher September 06, 2016 5:19 PM  

"To reclaim our birthright, we need only reclaim the Constitution. We need to re-embrace American exceptionalism and reject the kind of toxic identitarianism the Left uses to divide us, manage us, and place us into needy voter blocs they then collect to win elections, and through which an institutionalized progressive cancer spreads to eat away its bones."

He's putting form before function, the cart of a form of government before the horse of what it's for: the people. The ideas are for the people, not the other way 'round.

Is it dialectic or pseudo-dialectic? Because I think he is also confusing small 'c' constitution --the partly unwritten rules of a culture, with the big 'C' Constitution --the document enacted by the States after the Revolution and Articles of Confederation. What I take him to mean is to buy into form over function, to buy into process instead of outcome, to basically elect cucks who, as long as it's all legal and polite, will transform the country into another place through immigration and other policies. Like, 'just a little longer [rubes], we'll have this """fixed""" in no time.'

He's saying pay no attention to the other identitarianism behind the curtain stealing the country away. Aside from that I'm not sure what he's saying. He doesn't come right out and say 'vote for Clinton,' but he does say enough against Trump that the conclusion he hints at should be obvious.

Finally, rhetorically, Vox must have really gotten under his skin. I mean what's with the anti-trumpsters and references to masturbation and porn and the banjo libel (i.e. 'Deliverance' whites-as-incenstuous references)? Projection? Why would he bring that in? Why the sex and incest and banjo? I sense that it's just a signal to fellow anti-whites. It's like he's hate-signaling/anti-white virtue signaling.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 06, 2016 5:30 PM  

Christopher wrote:. I mean what's with the anti-trumpsters and references to masturbation and porn and the banjo libel (i.e. 'Deliverance' whites-as-incenstuous references)? Projection? Why would he bring that in? Why the sex and incest and banjo? I sense that it's just a signal to fellow anti-whites. It's like he's hate-signaling/anti-white virtue signaling.
(((Jeff))) hates Whites who notice the echo. That's all. You're not allowed to notice who's a Jew and who is not.

Blogger Robert Divinity September 06, 2016 5:32 PM  

Turrettes

I think you meant "Turdettes," genius.

Blogger Lovekraft September 06, 2016 5:33 PM  

The Federalist. Never heard of it. Is it worth our time?

Anonymous Ciaran September 06, 2016 5:36 PM  

I've read VD's 16 points of what the Alt Right is. Now I want to know what the Alt Right is going to do, and how it is going to do it.

I've also read VD's essays on the Jews, the Irish, the Catholics, the Muslims, the Mexicans and mestizos of other origins, the Asians, and of course the Negros. None of these groups qualify as "ourselves and our posterity", whether through incompatibility of culture, genetics, or some combination thereof.

So my question is, who's left? All those people are a large majority of the country now. Perhaps the U.S. would have been stronger if these ideas of a "proposition nation" and "nation of immigrants" had not taken hold, but they did. And so here we are, all us Irish and Mexican and Jews and all the other riff-raff, who admittedly have never exhibited the genius for self government that the Anglo-Saxon founders of this country did. And then of course you have to count out all the women, due to their incorrigible solipsism and disinclination to think far beyond their own safety and provisioning.

Who do you have left? A bunch of Scots Irish rednecks and a bunch of effete WASPs. The former you can count on mostly, but the latter are heavily infected with SJW disease.

So how do you build a successful political movement on the tiny minority of the country that can be considered "ourselves and our posterity"? Without even the pretense of a "proposition nation", how do you build alliances between groups of otherwise incompatible groups, the alliances you will need to win the war?



Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros September 06, 2016 5:38 PM  

"Why would he bring that in? Why the sex and incest and banjo? I sense that it's just a signal to fellow anti-whites. It's like he's hate-signaling/anti-white virtue signaling."

Precisely. And greater men than I have noted that Jews tell the most absurdly obvious lies that fall apart under the slightest scrutiny. There is no real risk that if the hundreds of millions of Whites stop miscegenating, we will suddenly have an inbreeding problem. But he can call me back when there's a Tay-Sachs for whites.

Blogger Robert Divinity September 06, 2016 5:39 PM  

The Federalist. Never heard of it. Is it worth our time?

No. It is Dungeons and Dragons for conservatives with JD's.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd September 06, 2016 5:39 PM  

Ironsides wrote:The First and Second Amendments have prevented the U.S. from going full Marxist in the manner of Europe.

No, armed Americans have prevented that. There are too many unpredictable armed Americans who might do something unpredictable if their illusions are shattered - like vote for Trump.

If the Bill of Rights has any utility, it's as a common standard for how far is too far.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 06, 2016 5:42 PM  

Ciaran wrote:Now I want to know what the Alt Right is going to do, and how it is going to do it.
We are going to keep on winning. And we'll keep on winning by doing things that win.
Yes, that is the definition of flying by the seat of our pants. In the era of the omni-surveillant state and teh internets, we have to make it up as we go along. The circumstances we find ourselves in are remarkably unique.

Blogger Steampunk Koala September 06, 2016 5:43 PM  

The entire thing was reductio ad absurdum with a good measure of undeserved mic-drop snark, but I needed a good laugh today, and that certainly did it.

Anonymous tublecane September 06, 2016 5:46 PM  

@104-I don't think it will, as unseriousness was good for their paychecks, in addition to being easier. What's hard to explain is why more didn't try to get out ahead of mainstream opinion. There's little enough entrepreneurial spirit amongst intellectuals, much less so in intellectual institutions.

Blogger Tom Kratman September 06, 2016 5:47 PM  

It would be strange, indeed, if right and left didn't come to resemble each other technically and tactically, however much the overarching strategic goals differ. I can't imagine in what way politics is sufficiently different from war to keep that resemblance from coming about.

Blogger Tom Kratman September 06, 2016 5:47 PM  

It would be strange, indeed, if right and left didn't come to resemble each other technically and tactically, however much the overarching strategic goals differ. I can't imagine in what way politics is sufficiently different from war to keep that resemblance from coming about.

Blogger Ciaran September 06, 2016 5:48 PM  

#145: "We are going to keep on winning."

Keep on? You haven't won anything yet. Some promising starts do not constitute victory. The left has been fighting and slowly winning for 50 years. That's a lot of ground to take back.

Blogger Ciaran September 06, 2016 5:51 PM  

@148: "It would be strange, indeed, if right and left didn't come to resemble each other technically and tactically, however much the overarching strategic goals differ."

Right. As they have to if both sides are actually fighting. The techniques and tactics of the conservative movement are different from those of the left because the conservatives haven't actually been fighting.

Blogger VD September 06, 2016 5:54 PM  

It would be strange, indeed, if right and left didn't come to resemble each other technically and tactically, however much the overarching strategic goals differ. I can't imagine in what way politics is sufficiently different from war to keep that resemblance from coming about.

That's a great point that merits being pointed out to the cucks.

Blogger VD September 06, 2016 5:58 PM  

So how do you build a successful political movement on the tiny minority of the country that can be considered "ourselves and our posterity"? Without even the pretense of a "proposition nation", how do you build alliances between groups of otherwise incompatible groups, the alliances you will need to win the war?

You probably don't. The US is obviously doomed. Most people simply can't grasp change of that magnitude yet.

Blogger James Dixon September 06, 2016 6:00 PM  

> So how do you build a successful political movement on the tiny minority of the country that can be considered "ourselves and our posterity"?

What makes you think a political movement will be enough?

Blogger Steampunk Koala September 06, 2016 6:02 PM  

Ciaran wrote:@148: "It would be strange, indeed, if right and left didn't come to resemble each other technically and tactically, however much the overarching strategic goals differ."

Right. As they have to if both sides are actually fighting. The techniques and tactics of the conservative movement are different from those of the left because the conservatives haven't actually been fighting.


I'm not even sure they actually see themselves as a side in the first place. They have a bad habit of talking as though they were adults mediating a playground dispute rather than a side in the conflict.

Blogger Ciaran September 06, 2016 6:02 PM  

@154: "What makes you think a political movement will be enough?"

I don't. It's necessary but probably not sufficient.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan September 06, 2016 6:03 PM  

We seem to be generating the Daily Outrage while the Left and their cuck Egores fume and vent, haplessly of course

Blogger Steampunk Koala September 06, 2016 6:10 PM  

VD wrote:
You probably don't. The US is obviously doomed. Most people simply can't grasp change of that magnitude yet.


Do you think we're looking at a total collapse of America into anarchy until one group wins no matter what, or eventually resettling into sovereign states with newly-homogenized populations after some bloodshed with a strong enough victory in the next few years?

As much as I would like to hope for the latter, I suspect it may be too late.

Blogger Ciaran September 06, 2016 6:11 PM  

@VD 153: "You probably don't. The US is obviously doomed. Most people simply can't grasp change of that magnitude yet."

Yes, that assumption makes a big difference. Like which side of the 4th generation warfare you're fighting on.

Anonymous tublecane September 06, 2016 6:12 PM  

@120-I'm inclined to agree, but then I think, "What about the 10th amendments, or the rest of the ignored Constitution for that matter?" They don't even uphold the whole 1st and 2nd amendments, not to my liking, anyway. Whatever reason it is why we still have freedom of speech and the right to bear arms in some form, it can't be explained by the Constitution.

How long was it between Miller and Heller, when SCOTUS finally (finally!) admitted individuals had a right to possess firearms? Can you honestly say that was because of the second amendment? What the hell took them so long? Did they misplace their reading glasses for 80 years?

Anonymous Staelmate September 06, 2016 6:13 PM  

"We are going to keep on winning. And we'll keep on winning by doing things that win."

Which "wins" are these??

I don't see a plan of any sort there. And I don't see any evidence that the AltRight has one anything more than perhaps slightly increase the readership at the Stormer White Supremicist web site.

I'm not against debating societies. But let's call things what they are or actually get a plan.

Anonymous Staelmate September 06, 2016 6:15 PM  

"What makes you think a political movement will be enough?"

Wait...So the Alt Right's plan is to hope there is some sort of upheaval and wait to be there to pick up the pieces? Hmmmmm Great plan, gents.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 06, 2016 6:17 PM  

Staelmate wrote:I don't see a plan of any sort there. And I don't see any evidence that the AltRight has one anything more than perhaps slightly increase the readership at the Stormer White Supremicist web site.

I'm not against debating societies. But let's call things what they are or actually get a plan.


How's the weather in Tel Aviv?

Anonymous Staelmate September 06, 2016 6:22 PM  

"How's the weather in Tel Aviv?"

Great....Anyone who questions the Alt Right, let alone its efficacy must be a Jew or aligned with Israel....and you wonder why the Alt Right starts to look like a playground for idiots so easily satirized by EVERYONE.

Blogger Steampunk Koala September 06, 2016 6:22 PM  

Staelmate wrote:
Wait...So the Alt Right's plan is to hope there is some sort of upheaval and wait to be there to pick up the pieces? Hmmmmm Great plan, gents.


Steps. Alt-Right went from being largely unknown to a big enough threat to be called out by name by a Presidential nominee. I'd call that a victory. You sound like a Conservative, wanting a single big event and a decisive victory. That's not how this works.

Anonymous Ironsides September 06, 2016 6:24 PM  

I wasn't going to butt in again, but...

This clearly isn't the only thing that's needed right now, but one thing that I think would benefit the Alt-Right going forward is money. We need non-cucked, non-Marxist sources of news, educational books, etc. Funding for local initiatives. And so on.

Even entertainment, ideally, since for example most popular entertainment hits us over the head with an Evil White Male, a Numinous Negro, or a Feminist Superdyke every other second.

Where to get such funds is the problem, of course. Unless VD wins the Powerball it's hard to imagine a large-scale Alt-Right/Ethnonationalist media enterprise occurring, for example.

Perhaps, using the war tactics analogy, our enemies have something to teach us about the next step.

Anonymous Staelmate September 06, 2016 6:26 PM  

"Steps. Alt-Right went from being largely unknown to a big enough threat to be called out by name by a Presidential nominee."

That's not a plan. That's luck. And it's not a question of a single event or a decisive victory. I simple plan will do. I realize it's not easy. I realize it's hard. But when did counting on inertia and luck constitute a serious movement, let alone a plan?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 06, 2016 6:29 PM  

Staelmate wrote:Great....Anyone who questions the Alt Right, let alone its efficacy must be a Jew or aligned with Israel....and you wonder why the Alt Right starts to look like a playground for idiots so easily satirized by EVERYONE.
Since this site has been under attack for at least 6 months by paid agents of neo-conservative globalists, including Sheldon Adelson and George Soros, and many of these "Hasbara" operative work out of Israel, it's not racist paranoia, it's simple pattern recognition. Particularly when their method of attack is identical to your own.

Oh, I forgot, pattern recognition is raaaaaaciss and haram and ungemuetlich and badthinky.

Go on with your disinfo campaign. I hate to interfere with a man's work.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan September 06, 2016 6:30 PM  

Plan we gotta plan delegitimizing the current state that rules is the plan

Anonymous Staelmate September 06, 2016 6:32 PM  

"This clearly isn't the only thing that's needed right now, but one thing that I think would benefit the Alt-Right going forward is money..."

YES. And it's not just entertainment that needs to be funded. While ironic, it's fair to say that the best thing the Alt Right has going for it in the U.S. is David Duke. But is there a mechanism for funding him that is Alt Right in nature? No. Because there is no plan.

Anonymous Staelmate September 06, 2016 6:34 PM  

"Since this site has been under attack for at least 6 months by paid agents of neo-conservative globalists, including Sheldon Adelson and George Soros..."

Oh please....you sound like a child. Even if it was what difference does that make. Has Vox posted less in the past six months? Has he moderated his tone?

Blogger Steampunk Koala September 06, 2016 6:34 PM  

Staelmate wrote:
That's not a plan. That's luck. And it's not a question of a single event or a decisive victory. I simple plan will do. I realize it's not easy. I realize it's hard. But when did counting on inertia and luck constitute a serious movement, let alone a plan?


You're right, it's not a plan, it's an outcome. The plan is the application of 4GW principles to our goals. 4GW IS the plan, what you seem to be after is specific tactics and moves, which will change with the tide. That's the point. We don't give them leaders or plans of action to attack, just the sure knowledge that we will exploit every vulnerability they show as soon as they show it.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 06, 2016 6:36 PM  

Ironsides wrote:This clearly isn't the only thing that's needed right now, but one thing that I think would benefit the Alt-Right going forward is money. We need non-cucked, non-Marxist sources of news, educational books, etc. Funding for local initiatives. And so on.



Yep, we need a big ol' lever the conservatives, globalists and media can use to manipulate us and drive our movement where they want it to go. And to force the formation of organizations that can be co-opted and/or discredited. And to threaten to remove when we don't do what they want. And to install leaders of their own choosing. And to attract all the con artists and manipulators.

Remember the Tea Party?
The LAST thing the alt-right needs is money.

Blogger VFM #7634 September 06, 2016 6:39 PM  

Staelmate, quit concern-trolling, or whatever version of trolling you're doing. We all can see right through you.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 06, 2016 6:40 PM  

Staelmate wrote:Oh please....you sound like a child. Even if it was what difference does that make. Has Vox posted less in the past six months? Has he moderated his tone?

The purpose is to sow defeatism and discourage action. Readership here is hundreds of times the number of commenters. There are those willing to pay to have these people neutralized.

Look, it's documented fact.

So who the fuck are you, you useless fat slobbering pig?

Blogger Desiderius September 06, 2016 6:41 PM  

Unlike most conservatives, who love telling everybody they're not the wrong kind of right-winger, this is the first time I ever remember Goldstein going after someone on the right.

Dude hates SJWs/progs with the heat of a thousand suns. He's not your average cuck.

More stick and less carrot with the Jews seems like a good idea in general, but he's one to keep an eye on.

Anonymous Staelmate September 06, 2016 6:42 PM  

"You're right, it's not a plan, it's an outcome. The plan is the application of 4GW principles to our goals. 4GW IS the plan"

Really? 4G? Is this a spiritual 4G? Because so far the Alt Right hasn't done anything to inspire even the tiniest bit resistance, of any kind, let alone of the type that characterize 4G. You think calling people names, bracketing names)and not caring about being called names is some sort of achievement?

To date, the Alt Right hasn't inspired anything in the U.S. except editorials pointing out that it is akin to the far left, filled with white supremacists, and supports Donald Trump. Congrats on these great victories.

Blogger Steampunk Koala September 06, 2016 6:44 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote: Yep, we need a big ol' lever the conservatives, globalists and media can use to manipulate us and drive our movement where they want it to go. And to force the formation of organizations that can be co-opted and/or discredited. And to threaten to remove when we don't do what they want. And to install leaders of their own choosing. And to attract all the con artists and manipulators.

Remember the Tea Party?

The LAST thing the alt-right needs is money.


Every bit of this. Yes, we do need our own heavily-decentralized communications, but as much so we need to co-opt their own organizations to keep them on the defensive. We cannot compete with globalist money, our victory specifically hinges on our ability to make our enemy broadcast us and pay for it in their panic. Hillary and the MSM have been doing that nicely, and Twitter is the center of a lot of hysterical babble about us. Allies, and resources, will come as they do.

Anonymous staelmate September 06, 2016 6:48 PM  

"The purpose is to sow defeatism and discourage action."

Feeling defeated and discouraged are you?

It's not enough to whine about the degradation of America. Shit, anyone can do that. But to suggest there is a move afoot is to suggest there is a reason to follow that move. The problem is that from where I sit here in the middle of DiversityUSA, there's move, there's no action there's no move afoot.

Blogger Desiderius September 06, 2016 6:48 PM  

"So how do you build a successful political movement on the tiny minority of the country that can be considered 'ourselves and our posterity'?"

A country with only a tiny such minority is an unstable system. Vox is among those laying the groundwork for building again once it returns to a stable state.

That begins with identity, which leads to culture, which only then makes your political movement possible.

Anonymous Elijah Rhodes September 06, 2016 6:52 PM  

Take your call for an action plan and shove it up your ass Staelmate.

Anonymous staelmate September 06, 2016 6:55 PM  

"Vox is among those laying the groundwork for building again once it returns to a stable state"

The Only plans I've even heard half way articulated include some sort of catastrophic, nation-destroying event.

And then, the plan says, people will rise up and fight (Identity vs. identity).

Its becoming ever clearer to me that it makes perfect sense that such a movement would be led by a science fiction author.

Anonymous MendoScot September 06, 2016 6:55 PM  

"it is clear to anyone willing to sift through the rhetoric to uncover the kernel assumptions beneath."

This is why I gave up on him: Central Government to the core. He tried to make it palatable by invoking European ideals, but in the end it was always about who would rule.

His "reset" was just another Bolshevik revolution.

And I really, really liked his take on the Universities.

Time to go Henry VIIIth on them, he said.
Time to take back what we gave, he said.
Time to recognize their corrpution, he said.

Rule #3

Anonymous staelmate September 06, 2016 6:57 PM  

"Take your call for an action plan and shove it up your ass Staelmate. "

At least this guy can formulate a specific plan.

Blogger Desiderius September 06, 2016 6:58 PM  

"The Only plans I've even heard half way articulated include some sort of catastrophic, nation-destroying event."

If you're speaking of the nation you love, it happened in 1965.

Blogger Robert Divinity September 06, 2016 7:03 PM  


Remember the Tea Party?
The LAST thing the alt-right needs is money.


This is absolutely correct. Add those who collect the money Because They Must Be Stopped.

Anonymous kfg September 06, 2016 7:05 PM  

@158 Steampunk Koala:

I've made my own predictions before, but for this round, let's just say that I don't plan to be anywhere near L.A., Portland OR, or Miami.

You can ask the Texans what the Republic of plans to do about Austin.

Anonymous Indecisive Evidence September 06, 2016 7:07 PM  

@112
If Jeff got his utopia, he wouldn't be able to keep it because he does not understand why he has it to begin with.

Blogger frigger611 September 06, 2016 7:10 PM  

"...he sees himself virtually nailing to the doors of Benetton stores like a modern-day Martin Luther."

Well, this is certainly telling.

The writer is siding with the sodomites on this one, and at the same time claims that he's the real conservative.

I have to take him at his word, because... he is correct.

Because, as a conservative, he is only a slavish thinker who is a champion of the progressive agenda from 10 years ago. A progressive in slow motion, indeed.

Kudos for conserving nothing, champ.

Yeah. I want nothing to do with that kind of sloth.

Anonymous Ironsides September 06, 2016 7:15 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Ironsides wrote:This clearly isn't the only thing that's needed right now, but one thing that I think would benefit the Alt-Right going forward is money. We need non-cucked, non-Marxist sources of news, educational books, etc. Funding for local initiatives. And so on.



Yep, we need a big ol' lever the conservatives, globalists and media can use to manipulate us and drive our movement where they want it to go. And to force the formation of organizations that can be co-opted and/or discredited. And to threaten to remove when we don't do what they want. And to install leaders of their own choosing. And to attract all the con artists and manipulators.

Remember the Tea Party?

The LAST thing the alt-right needs is money.


Well, I didn't mean outside money, as my comment on the only way I can see it happening is Vox winning the Powerball should make clear.

I mean that it would be helpful if we had our own money and could use it to influence OTHER people, not that we should take other people's money and thus be influenced by them.

However, since there is no practical way to achieve this, this is more in the nature of "a few random ideas on what an alt-right person could do if they won the lottery/got a vast unexpected inheritance/etc.."

I agree totally that the movement would be cucked in a trice if anyone accepted outside funds. It's more a "wishing we had a way to project our message in the way that our enemies do" thing.

While I disagree partly with staelmate, and think that the Alt-Right is doing a fine job at raising awareness of the situation, I also think it wouldn't necessarily hurt to brainstorm a bit and look at the enemy's tactics and how they could be adapted to fighting for OUR goals.

Individual initiative is our strength, but it surely can't hurt to bounce a few random ideas off each other about possible new approaches that people could try on their own, can it? We don't have to subscribe to The Plan in order to say, "Hey, I had an idea that someone with X skillset/resources might want to think about sometime."

Blogger rcocean September 06, 2016 7:26 PM  

People like Jeff G never get it. Conservative = Patriotism = Nationalism. Its impossible to be a true conservative and not be a "nationalist". The constitution is not a suicide pact, it exists to help the American people (not random peeps from all over the world) govern themselves well.

Blogger Unknown September 06, 2016 7:27 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger LurkingPuppy September 06, 2016 7:32 PM  

Staelmate wrote:I'm not against debating societies. But let's call things what they are or actually get a plan.
Yeah guys, Fed the Fred is right! We need a plan!

Blogger Unknown September 06, 2016 7:33 PM  

The US is obviously doomed. Most people simply can't grasp change of that magnitude yet.

Or it could just be the praise and worship at the altar of white taking a much-needed break. Perennial predictions of doom are a great way to lead whites into battle: their sacrificial ego-nature will surely drive them into the breach when they perceive the god we've made in their own image might never again walk this earth. 'Twould be a sad day, for sure.

People are starting to grasp the possibility, they just don't want to believe it might actually happen and they sure as heck don't have a coherent plan if Casper the Friendly Ghost leaves town.

I love End Times prophecies. Perhaps 144,000 chosen ones will follow their messiah Musk to Mars. Or get blown up on the launch pad. Who knows?

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd September 06, 2016 7:34 PM  

Staelmate wrote:I simple plan will do. I realize it's not easy. I realize it's hard.

So, make a plan. Implement it. When we see it working, we'll jump on board with you.

Be the change you want to see.

Blogger tz September 06, 2016 7:37 PM  

It will break up approximately along such lines. There is no black nation now but there is likely to be.

Even now, eastern WA and northern CA want to split off into new states (Liberty and Jefferson).

Either the Feds shrink to the size of the articles in power and we may have provinces between the existing states and it, or worse.

You can't fix it propositionally because each region has a distinct proposition.

They are over 95% white bible traditional Christians, but they are moving to the far west and like and know America 1.0. Appalachia/South likes 1.0 but wants a few tweaks. The left coast will be cosmopolitian Blade Runner if something bad doesn't happen where they all starve.

Even America 1.0 was split across the Mason Dixon line and extended the split until the breaking point. 70 years until the two distinct propositions couldn't stay linked.

We are now more fragmented, and there are blobs of alien cultures in the middle. Colorado is red except for the I-25 blue gash, mainly Denver, which may burn itself down, or be driven out.

When Britain left India, the Muslims went North to Pakistan and the Hindus south. That will happen here.

I don't desire it, but see no way to prevent it.

Quebec never assimilated into Canada.

Blogger Desiderius September 06, 2016 7:46 PM  

"And then, the plan says, people will rise up and fight (Identity vs. identity)."

There will likely be some fighting and other healthy forms of competition between identities as there has always been, but the main conflict today is between identity and ideology/decaying empire. That may require fighting (or may not - see Brexit), but until that fight is won and/or ideology collapses under it's own weight, you can't have a meaningful politics at all, because politics requires a polity, which requires a culture unified by a single identity.

Blogger tz September 06, 2016 7:54 PM  

@177 Most of the Alt right is capable and willing to shoot back. One point lost is the 2nd Amendment and the Cuckservative encouragement of its erosion, even the NRA.

We were polite but they didn't listen.

We are now shouting at their level.

You don't want to think about the next step, e.g. if Hillary would try to confiscate guns. But that is why they are cucking the military though it will be a gamble. We can't beat goatherds in Afghanistan. A civil war wouldn't be as bloody because the tigers are on our side and the pussycats will fold.

Anonymous Scintan September 06, 2016 8:12 PM  

One of the issues at play is the massaging of the word "conservative", by pretty much everyone.

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