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Monday, September 19, 2016

A portrait in Churchianity


I tweeted this to the #jewsforrefugees hashtag and promptly received this response from a "pastor".

Pastor Richard ‏@thebiblestrue
And you call yourself a Christian?

Supreme Dark Lord ‏@voxday
Yes. Who said this?  "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to the dogs."

Pastor Richard ‏@thebiblestrue
Jesus said it. But what did he mean?

Supreme Dark Lord ‏@voxday
He meant that the nations exist, and the interests of the children of the nation come before the interests of other nations.

Pastor Richard ‏@thebiblestrue
@voxday Wrong. He meant the gospel came to the Jews first. But he still healed the gentile woman's daughter. God loves all people equally.

This is all too typical. Pastor Richard is clearly a Churchian and one of the wolves in sheep's clothing of whom the Apostle Paul warned. The Churchians preach a god who does not hate the wicked and they preach the Gospel of Babel, in which there are no nations and everyone is the same and all are loved equally by their god.

And their god is not our God. Their god is the prince of this world.

Notice how this dishonest "pastor" is playing the usual deceptive bait-and-switch. He switches the context with regards to the meaning of the phrase spoken by Jesus, and claims that the meaning of the phrase is somehow defined to the contrary of its clear meaning by substituting for it the meaning of a different part of the story that is not even referenced in that phrase!

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215 Comments:

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Anonymous Felix September 19, 2016 8:06 AM  

It's not what the Bible says, but who interprets it for the sheeple. In 1500's it was used to raise up armies to expel Muslims from Europe. In 2016 it's used to raise money to airlift Muslims into the interior of our nations and give them unlimited welfare.

Anonymous johnc September 19, 2016 8:10 AM  

Unfortunately many of these people are more interested in having the esteem of men than following God.

The effeminate weakness of today's "Christian leaders" is enough to make anyone queasy. It's one of the reasons why so many people are turned off to Christianity. They might not be able to place their fingers on it, but they recognize something, somewhere, is off.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan September 19, 2016 8:13 AM  

Theology hurts my head, but it sounds to me the pastor thinks he is god.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan September 19, 2016 8:18 AM  

Jews themselves are in the midst of a mania that sees themselves as a god. Years ago a jew in Israel wrote that the jews relearning Hebrew would lead to that god complex, and even though those lumps in the picture probably don't know much Hebrew they clearly read the Hebrew for Dummies book.

Blogger dc.sunsets September 19, 2016 8:19 AM  

Obama's minions didn't create the "unaccompanied child" invasion for nothing. It was a brilliant recognition that it's brainless, feelz-driven women who are the tip of the spear being driven into America's kidney.

Gertrude, what will you think when some Jihadi offspring of someone YOU invited into the country blows the legs off your granddaughter who just happened to walk by the bomb he planted? Shit happens?

Hildegard, are your little soccer players' legs worth risking in order to invite refugees seasoned with a few grains of Jihadi Syndrome to sup this weekend? (accompanied by a photo of a legless kid.)

Blogger J A Baker September 19, 2016 8:20 AM  

We should do a Jeff Foxworthy for Churchians, I'll start it off:

If you're pastor is a woman, you might be a Churchian.

If your pastor keeps plugging their latest feel good inspiration book during their 10 minute sermon, you might be a churchian.

If you go to church in a football stadium, you might be a churchian.

If you say all religions worship the same god, you might be a churchian.

Blogger dc.sunsets September 19, 2016 8:22 AM  

In the midst of the coming difficulties I will be laughing at the sudden change of mind sweeping these stupid, good-for-nothing women as worrying about America's children becomes more fashionable than worrying about those in Somalia or Honduras.

I'm not a misogynist. I just loathe fashion-obsessed, herd-compulsive people and women are just better at it.

Blogger VD September 19, 2016 8:22 AM  

If your pastor says "I" more than "Jesus" and "God" combined during the course of his sermon, you might be a Churchian.

Anonymous Takin' a Deplorable Look September 19, 2016 8:23 AM  

Another one for the slow rpm wood-chipper, feet-first.

Anonymous Steve September 19, 2016 8:26 AM  

How many Syrian refugees has Israel taken?

I'm an admirer of Israel, so I say we match them.

Blogger dc.sunsets September 19, 2016 8:28 AM  

If things get as angry as I expect, where people are so enraged at...everything...that they lose their ability to form words, people who posed for photos like this will in all likelihood be dragged into the street where they live, shot in the head and their corpse left to feed the crows.

It simply astonishes me that such people are so obtuse that they can't detect a sudden chill in the air. The most zealous cultists still devoted to "We Are The World" have had a full 17 years to BUY a clue. AFAIC, they deserve what's coming to them.

Anonymous Takin' a Deplorable Look September 19, 2016 8:28 AM  

@ Steve

Exactly....the Jew homelands (Israel and Birobidzhan) need to take their fair share of rapefugees

Anonymous M.W. Peak September 19, 2016 8:29 AM  

Paul's statement "To the Jew first and then to the Greek" shows he understood a difference between his people, the Jews, and others. Also Paul makes this amazing statement in Titus 1:12-13:

One of them, a prophet of their own, said, “The Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, and idle gluttons!” This witness is true. So rebuke them sharply that they may be sound in the faith.

What a racisssss.

Blogger dc.sunsets September 19, 2016 8:30 AM  

If women in the congregation walk proudly and the men walk softly, you might be a Churchian.

Blogger JaimeInTexas September 19, 2016 8:33 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Lovekraft September 19, 2016 8:34 AM  

Pure spiritual laziness on the part of the Pastor. Steeped in globalist slogans means they get to take the easy way out: we can't focus on our own problems in our own nations because there's a lot of it far away, or better yet, our past sins (colonialism) requires we pay penance.

A truly compassionate person begins locally, then moves up the scale. There is no skipping past the first stages.

Blogger JaimeInTexas September 19, 2016 8:35 AM  

Why a pastor responds to something about a group of jews that promote the importation of refugees?
Let me guess, they are not in Israel.

Anonymous trev006 September 19, 2016 8:37 AM  

Israel rejected Jesus, then and now, which many of his parables make clear.

Of course, that doesn't disprove the idea that nations exist and should focus on bettering their own people. It does mean that keeping your birthright is never guaranteed, especially if you do everything in your power to deny it.

Which has far more serious consequences for Pastor Richard than for Vox Day.

Blogger dc.sunsets September 19, 2016 8:37 AM  

OT: Note that stock futures are up despite a weekend of bombs going off and people being knifed at the mall (there's a new meaning to the term "stuck accompanying my wife on a shopping trip.") Markets do not respond to outside events.

Charts suggested the balance of probability in favor of a rally. If the stock-weather forecast is accurate, this may be the last rally to new All Time Highs, with the DJIA aiming toward 19,000 and providing an interesting inversion, where the final high for this 42 year bull market occurs in October. No one knows the future, but if this is so, expect Trump's popularity to stumble as stocks rise, and then skyrocket if they top and begin to fall before the election.

2016 shapes up to be an historically important year on several fronts.

Blogger Krul September 19, 2016 8:38 AM  

If you teach that women's number one sin is lack of self esteem, you just might be a Churchian.

Blogger dc.sunsets September 19, 2016 8:39 AM  

related to @17

If your pastor ever uses any form of the word "ecumenism," you might be a churchian.

Blogger Ben Cohen September 19, 2016 8:39 AM  

These Jews along with all Muslims in the US should be deported. Deport the Jews to israel, cut off foreign aid and tell israel to take care of its own problems. It's these Jews and churchians fuckin fault that there are now regular terrorist attacks here.

Now we have a naturalized citizen from Afghanistan running loose because of the immigration policy these scum support.

Blogger Ben Cohen September 19, 2016 8:41 AM  

DC you may see a doubling of the stock market due to it being the only game in town once big institutional investors realize government at all levels is broke.

Anonymous the management September 19, 2016 8:42 AM  

The last sermon from our pastor was that "God wants us to love the world" - exact quote. I have already cut our tithe in half, and had a talk with him privately about the Jesus-is-my-boyfriend music, and that Nehemiah did not build a "wall of love and acceptance". This might have been the last straw, but there are literally no other church options left.

Blogger JaimeInTexas September 19, 2016 8:44 AM  

Drives me nuts. Christians get the lesson(s) of a parable right but refuse, or outright reject, the truth and common knowledge of the subject used as the vehicle for what is being taught. Parables would be meaningless and undeciphrable unless there was such thing as nations, nationality, races and ethnicities, landlords and renters, employers and employees, etc.

Blogger CarpeOro September 19, 2016 8:45 AM  

Me, I'd take the pic at face value. Start sending all the refugees to Israel. For the ME and African ones, much shorter trip so there would be tremendous transportation savings. Maybe they could use the savings to circumcise all the males as an act of inclusion.

Blogger Old Ez September 19, 2016 8:46 AM  

"Notice how this dishonest "pastor" is playing the usual deceptive bait-and-switch. He switches the context with regards to the meaning of the phrase spoken by Jesus, and claims that the meaning of the phrase is somehow defined to the contrary of its clear meaning by substituting for it the meaning of a different part of the story that is not even referenced in that phrase!"

How very...Talmudic.

Blogger KSC September 19, 2016 8:48 AM  

This time you've got it wrong. The standard interpretation is that Jesus's mission was to the Jews first and then to the Greeks; his healing of the woman's daughter was an act of divine mercy (particularly as the woman had interrupted the disciples' rest). This doesn't imply that God loves "all people equally" nor does it necessarily suggest all you imply about the existence and interest of nations, though it probably leans in that direction. I can cite medieval/Reformation interpretations if you'd like (the first one I saw was Calvin, though I know citing him would be questionable around these parts).

Blogger Krul September 19, 2016 8:50 AM  

If your idea of a "hymn" is a scruffy hippy on acoustic guitar slowly droning "Hallelujah" twenty times in a row, you might be a Churchian.

Blogger Robert What? September 19, 2016 8:51 AM  

I think anyone who feels the way the pastor does should immediately contact their congressman and encourage them to set up a refugee center in their neighborhood.

Blogger Unknown September 19, 2016 8:52 AM  

Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

James 4:4

Blogger Robert What? September 19, 2016 8:53 AM  

@KSC,

I happen to agree with you. Calvinism seems to me to make the most sense of interpreting this world.

Blogger JBowers September 19, 2016 8:54 AM  

I have read and listened to Vox for several weeks and, like everyone, I don't agree with everything he says, but find him to be a well-reasoned and intelligent guy. That said, I must be missing the issue here. From a theological standpoint, I have no idea how you could argue from the New Testament that Jesus favored any nation above another. He constantly defied that logic by ministering to the gentiles. In the passage mentioned in the tweet, it seems to me that the context draws the reader to the conclusion that the point that Jesus cared for all was exactly what he wanted to impress upon the gentile woman, everyone who was there, and us as the reader. I mean no offense by adding this here, but I don't think the self-proclaimed (and proven) King of kings cares much for nations. To what I believe the point of your initial tweet is, I also doubt that Jesus is for overwhelming taxation to the end of relocating refugees all over the world and creating strife. That could just be me desiring comfort, though. I look forward to any and all replies. Thanks!

Anonymous Alice De Goon September 19, 2016 8:55 AM  

If any woman in your church refers to Jesus as her "boyfriend", you might be a Churchian.

Blogger RC September 19, 2016 8:56 AM  

The level of cuckiness in today's church is truly astounding. They're all so nice, spending money on new gender-neutral Bibles, led by cucked pastors like this man above, soft men usually married to a semi-reformed slut, the slut usually looking for opportunities to grandstand about her former sinful lifestyle, having one child with her beta-boy and then adopting foreigners for the virtue-signaling win. I have no idea how I've continued to be elected to the board for my local version of this place, but to date I remain, waiting for eyes to open and trying to wake those asleep. Wake up sheeple! You're committing personal and cultural suicide and you don't even realize it.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr September 19, 2016 8:57 AM  

I tend toward a simpler attitude. You don't starve your own children to feed someone else's. These people lack a hierarchy of duty, and display a failure of moral responsibility.

Perhaps canings can help.

Anonymous Slen September 19, 2016 8:58 AM  

"Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD."
-Jeremiah 23-1

Blogger Krul September 19, 2016 8:59 AM  

If you've ever seriously considered having openly gay clergy, you just might be a churchian.

Anonymous VFM0265 September 19, 2016 9:00 AM  

If your pastor uses Father's Day, to cut men down and belittle them in front of their families during the sermon......

.....You might be a Churchian.

(hat tip - Dalrock)

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 19, 2016 9:01 AM  

If you believe it's loving for men to submit to their wives, you might be a Churchian.

Blogger Cecil Henry September 19, 2016 9:02 AM  

Christians have been voting to transfer wealth and power to a big secular government

Indeed, my church has completely abandoned Christianity for a veneer of virtue signalling and humanistic self aggrandizement.

And its ugly underneath the smiles.

Anonymous PVB September 19, 2016 9:04 AM  

I can see how some may believe that we should be taking in refugees especially in light of the Beatitudes. However, as so often happens on the Left, they infer that the nation should be obeying Jesus' teaching rather than the individual. If the Pastor wants to open his home to a few refugee families he can do that, however I wouldn't interpret the teachings as binding on a nation that can't even keep from aborting a million babies a year.

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you?

Blogger Spencer Rathbun September 19, 2016 9:04 AM  

@JBowers

As Christians, we are adopted members of God's tribe. We are bought by the sacrifice of Jesus. Yes, Jesus is the King of Kings, but that does not mean He will treat every tribe the same. Join God's family, or be cast out to the lake of fire, where there will be weeping and bashing of teeth for all eternity.

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 19, 2016 9:04 AM  

If you believe muh Constitution was divinely inspired, you might be a Churchian.

Blogger Whisker biscuit September 19, 2016 9:04 AM  

If your church service starts off with a 40 minute concert by femine praise leaders with skinny jeans on, singing love songs to Jesus, you might be a Churchian.

Blogger Curlytop September 19, 2016 9:04 AM  

If the 1st item on the church prayer list is for all the church members who are fostering/adopting foreigners...


Your church's new sanctuary is missing a cross, choir loft replaced w band instruments, and now looks like it was inspired by the local spa...

Your new statement of beliefs covers "service", "community outreach," but Christ's Resurrection is strangely missing.

Anonymous Gecko September 19, 2016 9:07 AM  

The woman's daughter was healed as a result of her faith. How many of the faithful are we importing?

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 19, 2016 9:09 AM  

If you believe everyone belongs wherever they want, you might be a Churchian.

Blogger RC September 19, 2016 9:09 AM  

If you think "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord" means that a husband and wife are to live in mutual submission to one another, you might be a churchian.

Blogger ZhukovG September 19, 2016 9:10 AM  

If you enjoyed the movie 'Fire Proof', you might be....oh hell you've got a lot worse problems than just being a churchian.

OpenID paworldandtimes September 19, 2016 9:11 AM  

If your pastor invites people from other denominations or religions over for "dialogue," you might be a Churchian.

If your church displays the sign "All Are Welcome," you might be a Churchian.

If your church plays upbeat music regularly, you might be a Churchian.

PA

Blogger Whisker biscuit September 19, 2016 9:12 AM  

If your church has an animated sign out front that puts the name of the pastor and praise leader on it with no mention of Christ, you might be a Churchian.

Blogger Curlytop September 19, 2016 9:14 AM  

The pastor carries a "man purse"...

Blogger Whisker biscuit September 19, 2016 9:14 AM  

Haha.

If you subscribe to Pure Flix.....

Blogger JBowers September 19, 2016 9:19 AM  

@Spencer Rathburn

To be sure, you are correct. I would add that Jesus looked in the faces of Jews and gentiles alike that were killing him and took his fate willingly so that people from all tribes could join God's family otherwise they would have no choice but to spend eternity apart from him in hell. I think our identity as part of God's "tribe" supersedes all nationalities on a personal level. I think that @PVB hit the nail on the head by highlighting the difference between personal ethics and following Christ and the actions of a nation's government. How all this shakes out is difficult, for sure. Thanks for the comment.

Blogger Rob September 19, 2016 9:19 AM  

The woman in question is a Canaanite.

It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to the dogs...

The whole point of that scene in the Bible is... DRUMROLL PLEASE... "Faith in Jesus." (That's pretty much the theme of every single line of Scripture. Bible in a nutshell: "Are you on Team Jesus or not?")

Look a couple lines down, Matthew 15:28, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed at that moment."

Calling a person a "dog" in Semitic Culture is a huge insult, I wouldn't be surprised if Jesus was "testing this woman" a bit.

...
...

Another thing...

From 1st century eyes this scene makes no sense because the woman actually speaks, and Jesus speaks back to her. Read other writings from the Ancient World, you'll notice something, women don't talk.

People today have forgotten something: Christianity was NEW and EXCITING!

An Ancient Philosopher would have read that scene in Matthew and be taken totally by surprise. "WTF...??? I need to study this teacher named Jesus more..." Would be his response.

When the bulk of your theology is a God who turns into a cow and picks up chicks, and sacrificing a pig to Poseidon before sailing on the sea, EVERYTHING Jesus will throw you for a loop.

"God came to Earth to die for you!!"

1st century response: "Really... Tell me more..."

21st century response: "Mhmm... Sorry, I'm busy collecting Pokemons..."

Blogger Krul September 19, 2016 9:19 AM  

If your theology consists of generic self help platitudes from people like Joel Osteen, you might be a churchian.

Blogger VD September 19, 2016 9:21 AM  

Do not make demands, Unknown. Do it again and you won't just be deleted, you'll be spammed.

Blogger VD September 19, 2016 9:22 AM  

The whole point of that scene in the Bible is... DRUMROLL PLEASE... "Faith in Jesus."

The question did not concern the scene, but the specific phrase.

Blogger me September 19, 2016 9:23 AM  

Historically this passage has been used to argue everything from nationalism to anti-proselytizing. I observe Pastor Richard and VoxDay are performing hermeneutics and exegesis, pulling in information and conclusions outside of the passage to interpret. Bottom line look at Jesus's actions: he fed the woman's daughter. How does that make Jesus different?

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 19, 2016 9:24 AM  

JBowers wrote:From a theological standpoint, I have no idea how you could argue from the New Testament that Jesus favored any nation above another.

In the story above, Jesus is referring to Jews as children and Samaritans as dogs. He clearly preferred the Jews. They, however, did not prefer him.

He constantly defied that logic by ministering to the gentiles.

No he didn't. Maybe you're thinking of Paul, which is not a small mistake.

In the passage mentioned in the tweet, it seems to me that the context draws the reader to the conclusion that the point that Jesus cared for all was exactly what he wanted to impress upon the gentile woman, everyone who was there, and us as the reader.

You've already shown your understanding of the context to be too weak to be writing commentaries.

I mean no offense by adding this here, but I don't think the self-proclaimed (and proven) King of kings cares much for nations.

When God talked to the prophets, what did he talk about? The nation of Israel. Almost nothing else.

To what I believe the point of your initial tweet is, I also doubt that Jesus is for overwhelming taxation to the end of relocating refugees all over the world and creating strife. That could just be me desiring comfort, though. I look forward to any and all replies. Thanks!

Dude, it's not about taxation. Nobody cares about taxes when they're bleeding out.

You need to lurk a bit because either you aren't tall enough for this ride or you're arguing disingenuously.

Blogger tz September 19, 2016 9:25 AM  

Even the Samaritan woman was humble (even dogs get scraps) and grateful.

The rapefugees aren't. Solipsism on the part of Christians only makes the world worse. They should be over there in refugee camps preaching the gospel and converting them.

Anonymous johnc September 19, 2016 9:26 AM  

@51 If your church displays the sign "All Are Welcome," you might be a Churchian.

ohh jeez there's a "hymn" with that title that is absolutely, absolutely awful.

We are currently living the hallmark of the "Church of Nice" establishment, as whatchamacallit YouTube guy refers to it (I forget his name). Being "nice" is the only commandment.

Christianity (and Western Civ) is going to be saved by those Left Hook of God people:

Step 1 --> On your knees in prayer.
Step 2 --> Left hook where necessary.

Blogger J A Baker September 19, 2016 9:26 AM  

It is a shame, no a travesty that the word discriminate has such a negative connotation in our culture today. Discrimination can be a very good thing.

The churchians calling for an end to nations don't understand that it is because of the existence of certain nations that Christianity was able to thrive and flourish, and of course the existence of those nations, in the first place, can only be attributed to God's divine plan and providence in order to preserve Christianity so that Christianity will have places to operate in the world.

That being said, those calling for a dissolution of those nations through the non discriminate acceptance of all peoples and cultures within those nations are working to undue what God has done.

Western nations exist because of Christianity, and these western nations exist for Christianity, plain and simple.

Christianity has always been a faith of personal liberty coupled with personal responsibility, and it is these ideas that all western nations are founded on and which they promote in the world.

We must be good stewards of what God has given us. We must work to protect our nations and preserve them. In order to do this we must discriminate when inviting others to live among us.





Blogger HonorLiving September 19, 2016 9:29 AM  

@56

If the end game of Christianity is collective suicide that's kind of something to hold against it.

But do tell us how the Christian world fared under Islam. Do tell us what became of the Christian in Turkey, in Syria, in North Africa, in the ascending Nestorian Church. Then tell us about "team Jesus".

We all know damn well that most Christian, especially the cuck kind, wouldn't ever dare to try and openly convert a Muslim to the faith because of his interfaith dialogue commitment.

I've seen more opposition to Islam coming from the atheist than I have coming from the Christian.

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 19, 2016 9:29 AM  

me wrote:Historically this passage has been used to argue everything from nationalism to anti-proselytizing. I observe Pastor Richard and VoxDay are performing hermeneutics and exegesis, pulling in information and conclusions outside of the passage to interpret. Bottom line look at Jesus's actions: he fed the woman's daughter. How does that make Jesus different?

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Blogger Chris Mallory September 19, 2016 9:29 AM  

Ben Cohen wrote:Now we have a naturalized citizen from Afghanistan running loose because of the immigration policy these scum support.

I wonder if the Afghan was one of the Quislings who was a translator for American troops. I get tired of the Conservatards who go on about the "good Afghans/Iraqis/ Goatherds who are in danger for helping our troops. They have already shown they are traitors to their own people, why trust them enough to bring them here?

Anonymous Faceless September 19, 2016 9:30 AM  

The Samaritan woman and the Roman soldier were examples of non-Jewish gentile faith and nobility used in part to push the remaining children of Jacob one last time, and many did come to believe. However, Jesus made it clear that it was first to one nation (the remaining children of Jacob, suffering under Roman rule), then to another nation (when Phillip was sent to Samaria), and then, to all the nations. If Paul and the other church fathers were wanting one large melting pot, they would have embraced the Judaizers who came to Corinth to tell the Greeks to become Jews. Every tribe and race and tongue confesses at the end - they don't all speak one language and become one tribe.

Blogger Student in Blue September 19, 2016 9:33 AM  

People who aren't understanding Vox's position needs to re-read @25. JaimeInTexas's post.

The parable functions like formal logic - there are assumptions of truths that the story rests on to drive home a point.

That people could take said point the story drove home, and use that to try and rationalize one of the truths the parable rests on is in fact incorrect, is very ridiculous.

So let's assume that it's correct, that Jesus really meant for everyone to live in a perfect, Babel-ian harmony here on earth (pro tip, this is what your argument leads to without fail).

If that's true, then Jesus was lying when He was testing the woman. Are you then going to argue that somehow lying is acceptable as long as it serves 'The Greater Good'? You might as well start calling yourself Muslim since you're already practicing taqiyya.

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 19, 2016 9:34 AM  

Anklebiters: this is the least defensible hill to choose to die on. If you had any sense (or Bible knowledge) you'd go to the story of the Good Samaritan instead.

Blogger JBowers September 19, 2016 9:36 AM  

@Aeoli Pera

Interesting thoughts. To counter, Jesus pointed out the faith of the Centurion to be stronger than that of those in Israel, Jesus fed the 4,000 gentils, Jesus healed the man who identified himself as Legion, Jesus preached to the Samaritan woman at the well, etc.

As the fulfillment of Old Testament promises, Jesus died for jews and gentiles alike. The Old Testament is full of God blessing gentiles (God saved a "mixed multitude" from Egypt, Aaron and his wife were struck with leprosy when they showed their disapproval of Moses' gentile wife, God sent Jonah to minister to Ninenvah and then rebuked him for his hatred of those people, etc).

It seems the most common misunderstanding of the scriptures in general is God's relationship to Israel. He chose them because they were the weakest to prove that their success was His success to his glory and for the benefit of all the surrounding nations (Rahab joined Israel for this). This is a much larger discussion than a message board would allow, I suppose. I have no idea how tall I should be to "ride" here, but I assure you that I have only posted genuinely.

Thanks

Blogger rumpole5 September 19, 2016 9:36 AM  

Jesus specifically stated that his role was not to directly transform civil institutions. It was to transform a man's spiritual relationship with God. A critical mass of spirit led Christians does transform the society and government that they inhabit, but that effect is entirely a by product. Jesus and the early church fathers did not condemn the existing racist, pagan, and unfair Roman government. (e.g. Matt 22:21 ; John 18:36, Romans 13: 1-7. ) In fact, Paul availed himself of the advantages of his Roman citizenship, (Acts 25:10-11) and sent a run away slave back to his master. (See the book of Philemon). If you are associated with a church that is concerned with our government structure and/or function, then you are in the wrong place, and probably headed to the wrong destination.

Blogger residentMoron September 19, 2016 9:37 AM  

@Vox

Continuing the analogy, what would constitute the crumbs, in the present context?

Assuming, as a given, we both abhor the "invade the world, invite the world" as you called it above.

Not a gotcha; serious question.

Blogger ZhukovG September 19, 2016 9:38 AM  

Just looking at the photo in the OP. I wonder at what kind of collective, suicidal insanity has gripped so many Jews.

Has anyone checked the Manischewitz for chemical contamination lately?

Blogger BunE22 September 19, 2016 9:44 AM  

I never heard the word Churchianity before reading this blog. My pastor used it in his sermon 2 weeks ago.

Blogger VD September 19, 2016 9:46 AM  

Continuing the analogy, what would constitute the crumbs, in the present context?

Foreign aid. Emergency aid. That sort of thing. Christians are supposed to go and preach to the nations, not move them into their neighbors' homes at their neighbors' expense with the idea that their Christianity will somehow rub off on them.

Blogger J A Baker September 19, 2016 9:50 AM  

Genesis
11


The Tower of Babel
1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.

2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.

3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for mortar.

4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city, and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.

6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 19, 2016 9:50 AM  

JBlowers, I discern that everything you've asserted is carefully calculated to sow confusion.

Who is feeding you this crap? Is it a pastor? A website?

Blogger KSC September 19, 2016 9:52 AM  

The debate here is not whether Jesus is affirming the reality of nations; that much is fairly obvious. The question is whether his saying is intended as a general principle applicable to all nations, or whether it is more specifically focused on his Messianic mission to Israel. Given the overall context and the shape of Matthew's gospel, the latter is more likely; most interpreters, from Chrysostom to Luther to Calvin to a number of modern traditionalists acknowledge that. That being said, while Jesus is saying something specific about his relationship to the gentiles, it may not be entirely unreasonable to infer from this a larger principle. The point is that that is not the main thrust of the passage.

Blogger JBowers September 19, 2016 9:55 AM  

Aeoli Pera

Scripture, friend. A close, honest reading of scripture. Where did you come up with your "subtle" mocking techniques? Is it the same place where you left any evidence for your arguments (or what you've put forward to pass as arguments)?

Here's to you having a good one, friend.

Blogger Student in Blue September 19, 2016 9:59 AM  

@KSC
The point is that that is not the main thrust of the passage.

The point is that people are using that main thrust, to deny the reality of nations.

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 19, 2016 10:03 AM  

For the peanut gallery:

Faith != Nationality
the 4,000 != gentiles
Conversation != Preaching
Blessing Gentiles != Melting pot
"He chose [Israel] because they were the weakest..." Hopelessly wrong.

You can see how all of these meanings are close, but also deceitful. Taken together, it is a pattern of calculated deceit.

This is a much larger discussion than a message board would allow, I suppose. I have no idea how tall I should be to "ride" here, but I assure you that I have only posted genuinely.

The only question is whether you came up with this bullshit yourself.

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 19, 2016 10:04 AM  

JBowers wrote:Aeoli Pera

Scripture, friend. A close, honest reading of scripture. Where did you come up with your "subtle" mocking techniques? Is it the same place where you left any evidence for your arguments (or what you've put forward to pass as arguments)?

Here's to you having a good one, friend.


Burn in Hell, snake.

Blogger Student in Blue September 19, 2016 10:06 AM  

There's nothing quite as disgusting as someone smilingly, lyingly, calling someone friend.

Blogger JBowers September 19, 2016 10:06 AM  

Not an argument. Good Day!

Blogger Phillip George September 19, 2016 10:12 AM  

Looking at a map of Washington DC it's easy to see the Freemason Symbolism. No secrets there.
And the titles Most Worshipful Grand Master don't hide their claim to Deism/ Theism.

These were the people who built the non state along side of the united States, District of Columbia.

Why mention this> Like the Virtue Signalling Churchians sewing their fig leaves which god has to be spelled out.

Muslims have anti Christ Muhammadism. They follow another gospel - not the Gospel. The Church of Inclusion is an insult to the Actual God who raised Jesus from the dead and seated Him at His Right Hand. Don't put baal in a church or invite baal worshipers into a nation your forefathers claimed for the God who raised Jesus from the dead.

In God We Trust, needs "pragmatic specificity". Specify or go down. "let anyone with another gospel be accursed." Amen.

Blogger JBowers September 19, 2016 10:20 AM  

@Vox

I'd actually be really interested in what you have to say about my comments, although I suppose I could do the work to look up your thoughts in earlier posts :)

Either way, thanks for your perspective.

Blogger Cinco September 19, 2016 10:21 AM  

If there is a laser-light show with or without a fog machine, you might be a Churchian.

Blogger Phillip George September 19, 2016 10:21 AM  

Another reading: When your own children are employed, fed, protected, housed, educated, capable, then, only then, you have the time and resources to give to someone else's children.

Extrapolate to Nation.

Respect means looking at exactly what they believe and acknowledging their right to not assimilate and to want to dominate or kill you. That is respect. Respect your enemies.

Anonymous Scooter Downey September 19, 2016 10:23 AM  

God hates the wicked. But he demonstrated his love by sending Christ to die for the wicked while they were still wicked. And he desires all wicked people to be saved.

Anonymous Jared September 19, 2016 10:23 AM  

"I wonder at what kind of collective, suicidal insanity has gripped so many Jews"

Suicidal? Not at all. Genocidal and homicidal, yes.

#JewsforRefugees... in goy neighborhoods.

As long as it's only the shiksas getting raped, what's the problem? Such a deal.

Blogger Student in Blue September 19, 2016 10:25 AM  

The point is that people are using that main thrust, to deny the reality of nations.
Proof in picture, in this very comment thread:

@33
I mean no offense by adding this here, but I don't think the self-proclaimed (and proven) King of kings cares much for nations.

Blogger Nick S September 19, 2016 10:25 AM  

It's profoundly absurd to assert that God somehow disapproves of concepts inherent to nationalism. Compassion that compels others to sacrifice under threats of violence or imprisonment is not compassion. It's posturing.

OpenID boardroomal September 19, 2016 10:27 AM  

Churchians and Churchian sects need direct I.V injections of Red Pill Plasma and put in the I.C for about 2 weeks...I mean the destruction they have wrought upon the west and its embrace of feminism...all is "Goodfeels"...women need to "Unclench their Fists" and "Bend the Knee" in front of the cross, otherwise return to Wicca and drag your effeminate husbands with you.

I would rather follow this guy than any Churchian Leader or Churchian Sect

P.S This video is very affective when descended upon by 7th Day Activists and Modern Day Revelation Prophets...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmyuE0NpNgE

OpenID boardroomal September 19, 2016 10:31 AM  

Red-Pilled Pastor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNOuVhn_yRw

Blogger haus frau September 19, 2016 10:32 AM  



In what way does the New Testament or Old, for that matter, endorse earthly equality? Does this man remember these passages? Christians submit to earthly authorities except where it conflicts with the faith, children honor thy parents, wives submit to your husbands, husbands submit to Christ, slaves be content with your servitude, etc. God made some vessels for noble purpose out of gold and some for common purpose of clay and its not the vessel's place to question......The only equality the NT endorses is equality of salvation in Christ. That passage where Paul says there are no jews nor gentiles, male nor female in Christ is very specific. To interpret it the way this pastor does is also to believe there are no males or females on earth. Question then, does this pastor support the tranny fad?

Blogger clk September 19, 2016 10:37 AM  

The RCC interpretation of this verse (at least as taught to me... I haven't been able to find a Nihil Obstat and Imprimature source to back this up - maybe someone here can ) is that the children refer to Jews and Jesus is acting to fulfill the promises of God towards the Jewish people .. he was the promised messiah and in his ministry he fulfilled the old covenants and created new ones thru the example of his life and his teachings passed down as sacred traditions and then contained within the NT. I have always felt that Jesus was also showcasing an example on how someone should approach God -- with humility and faith.


Anonymous BGKB September 19, 2016 10:40 AM  

what will you think when some Jihadi offspring of someone YOU invited into the country blows the legs off your granddaughter who just happened to walk by the bomb he planted?

Same thing she does now blame White men.

f any woman in your church refers to Jesus as her "boyfriend", you might be a Churchian.

Even if her boyfriend steals cars?

#60 Bottom line look at Jesus's actions: he fed the woman's daughter. How does that make Jesus different?

All that signaling and you didn't know the daughter was healed not fed.

Conservatards who go on about the "good...They have already shown they are traitors to their own people

Not all of them, some have been caught on TV doing false translations for the TROOPS.

#JewsforRefugees... in goy neighborhoods.As long as it's only the shiksas getting raped, what's the problem?

They would probably pay to watch.

Anonymous 360 September 19, 2016 10:40 AM  

I don't think the self-proclaimed (and proven) King of kings cares much for nations.

I simply disagree. Here is why:

Ps 86:9 "All the nations you have made shall come and worship before you, O Lord, and shall glorify your name."

The nations will never go away and will always have a place before Christ. Each distinct and diverse. The reason Christ cares very much for the nations is because He receives greater glory when each and every one repents and turns to Him.

Revelation 7:9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands...

Blogger Escoffier September 19, 2016 10:41 AM  

the management wrote:The last sermon from our pastor was that "God wants us to love the world" - exact quote. I have already cut our tithe in half, and had a talk with him privately about the Jesus-is-my-boyfriend music, and that Nehemiah did not build a "wall of love and acceptance". This might have been the last straw, but there are literally no other church options left.

Here's my question: what should a Christian do when it's obvious that the lampstand has been removed from a Church? In the last thread of this sort Nate suggested stay, but I repeat, sometimes it's pretty clear that the lampstand has been removed and the Church is under judgment.

It seems clear to me that the object of the exercise isn't to go to a certain magical building or even to listen to a certain guy talk but to meet with the Body of Christ.

I would give my eye teeth to meet with the body of Christ but have absolutely no idea on this planet where that might happen currently. Every 'Church' I attend is hostile to Christ.

Blogger Escoffier September 19, 2016 10:43 AM  

If the idea of Christ wading hip deep in the blood of his enemies horrifies you -- you might just be a Churchian!

Blogger Gapeseed September 19, 2016 10:49 AM  

I think the chief question lies in the meaning of Mark 12:17 - what does it mean to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's? It seems to me that the invade/invite policy allows its advocates to pretend that they are rendering unto God when they are merely rendering unto Caesar (and helping expand his power).

There is a 19th century Papal Encyclical called Rerum Novarum that sets forth the principles of subsidiarity, where our concern ought to be ourselves and our families, with decreasing levels of concern as the distance to ourselves increases. As such, if refugees show up on our doorstep, we ought to help and love in a reasonable way as Christians should. But that they did show up on our doorstep in the first place is an outrage - it was none of our business to start, and inviting them here could well hurt people our those closest to us and to whom we owe the most fidelity.

Blogger Escoffier September 19, 2016 10:50 AM  

If your church sign actually says 'no racism, no judgment' well, you know the rest

(actually saw this in Indianapolis)

Blogger JBowers September 19, 2016 10:51 AM  

@360

If I'm reading you correctly, I totally agree. I didn't mean to imply that Christ doesn't recognize nations (I apologize if I was totally unclear). What I meant was that I don't think Jesus cares for the claims of one nation over another. I think that he made it clear that the Kingdom of God was his concern which, as you pointed out with scripture (kudos), is and will be comprised of all nations without respect to any particular one.

Thanks for not telling me to "burn in hell"!

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer September 19, 2016 10:52 AM  

You know, nobody does sanctimonious like a churchian. You can hear the sneer.

Blogger Happy Housewife September 19, 2016 10:54 AM  

@Escoffier

"Here's my question: what should a Christian do when it's obvious that the lampstand has been removed from a Church?"

I hope it's still in the works, but I saw an idea proposed here not long ago to make a map of where like minded Ilk can meet for a home church. I might have misread it though. I sure hope there is one in the works. Our choices around here consist of fully converged Churchianity churches or dying churches, as in the congregation is so old and stagnant they are literally dying off.

Blogger Lazarus September 19, 2016 11:00 AM  

From a theological standpoint, I have no idea how you could argue from the New Testament that Jesus favored any nation above another.

Flabbergasting.

Blogger J A Baker September 19, 2016 11:00 AM  

And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.

The woman from the example VD used agreed with Christ when He said It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

Not only that, this woman was a new Christian, one of the first, she had already been converted and she believed that Christ was... well Christ.

Blogger Escoffier September 19, 2016 11:01 AM  

VD wrote:Continuing the analogy, what would constitute the crumbs, in the present context?

Foreign aid. Emergency aid. That sort of thing. Christians are supposed to go and preach to the nations, not move them into their neighbors' homes at their neighbors' expense with the idea that their Christianity will somehow rub off on them.


If you want to really rustle the Jimmies of a good and nice Churchian refer to this as substituting preaching the Gospel for putting pants on savages.

I've had people actually gasp in shock.

Blogger Marie September 19, 2016 11:04 AM  

Stupid question.

Why does it matter if the gospel came to the Jews first?

If they accepted the Gospel they became Christians. If they rejected it, they stayed Jews and rejected Christ.

If the interpretation is nothing more than the gospel came to the Jews first....what's the point?

Blogger J A Baker September 19, 2016 11:05 AM  

Psalms 33:12 - Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.

Isaiah 60:12 - For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.

Blogger Escoffier September 19, 2016 11:05 AM  

If you think loving your enemies means there are no such things as enemies you might be Churchian.

Blogger J A Baker September 19, 2016 11:06 AM  

According to scripture, it is never a good thing when a nation is dissolved. It is usually a judgment from God.

Anonymous VFM #6306 September 19, 2016 11:07 AM  

JBowers, Jesus came for the Jews. He favored Israel - the "children" in this statement. He compared the other nations to dogs.

That is the only and obvious meaning to the statement. Stop the gymnastics. You have had enough exorcise for all of us.

Blogger J A Baker September 19, 2016 11:12 AM  

Most of the refugees coming into the western nations are not calling Christ their Lord. This is a big problem.

Blogger Unknown September 19, 2016 11:12 AM  

The problem here is that most historians doubt Jesus ever existed. Basing a complete religion and group of writings and sayings about something with no evidence is inane.

Anonymous VFM #6306 September 19, 2016 11:15 AM  

That is a stupid question, Marie. The answer is simple:

If Jesus favored Israel over other nations, it means that mass immigration is foreign invasion. In other words, unlike countries can't be equal, and really should stop pretending reality is otherwise.

...and if your country is tossing its best portions as scraps to dogs, it is going to go hungry tomorrow.

Blogger SDaly September 19, 2016 11:15 AM  

Remind them of the lands lost to Christianity - North Africa, Egypt, Syria, Anatolia ...

Anonymous 360 September 19, 2016 11:17 AM  

What I meant was that I don't think Jesus cares for the claims of one nation over another.

I don't think that is what Vox is saying (though I will not claim to speak for the Dark Lord). He is merely pointing out that the nations are not the same, nor is there biblical support that they should all be the same (a la Tower of Babel). Nor is there sufficient biblical evidence that a nation should sacrifice its self-interest for the self-interest of another nation.

You have to separate the individual Christian's responsibility and the nation's responsibility. They are different.

Blogger JBowers September 19, 2016 11:23 AM  

@360

Thanks for the clarification

Blogger S1AL September 19, 2016 11:32 AM  

@Aeoli Pera - Hate to break it to you, but he's right about Good choosing Israel because they were they weakest (Deuteronomy 7:7).

Anonymous daddynichol September 19, 2016 11:36 AM  

Will the good pastor and his board of directors be willing to send a dozen or so of their young female members to Calais to work in the refugee camps? If not, why not?

Blogger S1AL September 19, 2016 11:38 AM  

On second thought, despite is better than because. I think there's another verse that's more explicit on the topic but I'll have to check.

Blogger Bard September 19, 2016 11:44 AM  

If your pastor teaches from "The Gimmick Driven Church" instead of the Bible, you just might be a cuck and a churchian

Blogger Bard September 19, 2016 11:45 AM  

If your church has a parking ministry...

Anonymous TS September 19, 2016 11:47 AM  

"Continuing the analogy, what would constitute the crumbs, in the present context?

Foreign aid. Emergency aid. That sort of thing. Christians are supposed to go and preach to the nations, not move them into their neighbors' homes at their neighbors' expense with the idea that their Christianity will somehow rub off on them."

Invade the world (by murdering with drones usually) Invite the world!!?? Churchianity provides cover for the neoCONS/globalists. ALOT of pastors are completely ignorant of the satanic nature of government and their crimes. With "shepherds" like that who needs enemies?

Blogger Zeke OF Confettii September 19, 2016 11:49 AM  

If your preacher spends his sermon emphasizing that Jesus was a Jew but omits that the Jewish leadership engaged in political blackmail to get Jesus on the Cross, you migh be a Churchian.

Anonymous VFM #6306 September 19, 2016 11:50 AM  

@121

Deut 7:7 isn't about weakest, it is about fewest. And you aren't going far enough: "because" is flat out wrong. God chose Israel because He loved Israel and kept the oath He swore to their forefathers.

7:7 is to remind Israel that they may be big now, but they were the smallest, and they owe that growth to God. It isn't explaining why God selected them.

Blogger Rhino September 19, 2016 11:57 AM  

Churchian Christians are to non-Churchian Christians as 95 is to 5.

Anonymous daddynichol September 19, 2016 12:01 PM  

If you think John Lennon's "Imagine" is awesome, you might.........

If John Lennon's Imagine is played during service and you don't object,.....

Blogger Latigo3 September 19, 2016 12:04 PM  

So, Pastor Richard makes the fatal flaw that most people who have not studied the Bible properly make. He made the statement that "God loves all people equally"; so what do you do with the statement that Paul quoted in Romans 9:13 "Jacob have I loved, Esau have I hated". Separation is a principal throughout the entire Bible, throughout the Bible, God makes many statements about what and who he hates. We are told to "love not the world".
The gospel is for everyone, Jesus went to the cross for everyone, but not everyone that says, "Lord, Lord", will he let in.
Separation from sin is all through the New Testament and Old Testament. Proper principles for living in this world, but not being of this world are throughout the entire Bible.
Much of today's Christianity has gotten in bed with the god of this world, and in doing so does not have the proper discernment for the times in which we at living.

Anonymous Gen. Kong September 19, 2016 12:07 PM  

dc.sunsets wrote:If things get as angry as I expect, where people are so enraged at...everything...that they lose their ability to form words, people who posed for photos like this will in all likelihood be dragged into the street where they live, shot in the head and their corpse left to feed the crows.

It simply astonishes me that such people are so obtuse that they can't detect a sudden chill in the air. The most zealous cultists still devoted to "We Are The World" have had a full 17 years to BUY a clue. AFAIC, they deserve what's coming to them.


Agreed. Their blood is on their own heads. Ironically, the (((parasites))) have country to which they can flee. It has a wall - and a strictly enforced immigration policy. It's unabashedly nationalist in character. Even most of the socialists are nationalists. Churchians will have no place to flee to. Golden Dindu and Golden Kebab will not be there to save them (they'll likely dispose of many before we have to), and the Israel many Churchians adore will not allow them in. They'll end up as food for the birds and beasts. Darwin-ward winners.

Anonymous dagwood September 19, 2016 12:12 PM  

"If you think John Lennon's "Imagine" is awesome, you might........."

Speaking simply as a pianist and not as a theologian, "Imagine" is in fact an awesome masterpiece of musical minimalism. The message it imparts verbally is not necessarily true, and I wouldn't blame anyone for finding it conceptually objectionable, but as a composition, it's sublime.

Anonymous VFM #6306 September 19, 2016 12:16 PM  

dagwood wrote:"If you think John Lennon's "Imagine" is awesome, you might........."

Speaking simply as a pianist and not as a theologian, "Imagine" is in fact an awesome masterpiece of musical minimalism. The message it imparts verbally is not necessarily true, and I wouldn't blame anyone for finding it conceptually objectionable, but as a composition, it's sublime.


Yeah! It is exactly like the Third Reich!

Blogger Escoffier September 19, 2016 12:19 PM  

Unknown wrote:The problem here is that most historians doubt Jesus ever existed. Basing a complete religion and group of writings and sayings about something with no evidence is inane.

Mr. Unknown, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Anonymous dagwood September 19, 2016 12:20 PM  

"Yeah! It is exactly like the Third Reich!"

Not sure what you mean. The Third Reich had bad politics, and even worse strategy, but it had a great soundtrack (Wagner). If you want to tell me Wagner is bad music, you're in for a spanking.

Anonymous TLM September 19, 2016 12:28 PM  

What do you get when you combine a 'Purpose Driven' church and a Planet Fitness?

A Judgement Free Zone full of pizza eating weak little Nancy boys that can't deadlift.

Blogger John Williams September 19, 2016 12:31 PM  

@The Management, Never forget the church in your living room. There are surely others looking for what cannot be found in your area.

Anonymous Mark Twain's Spirit in the Sky September 19, 2016 12:41 PM  

dagwood wrote:"Yeah! It is exactly like the Third Reich!"

Not sure what you mean. The Third Reich had bad politics, and even worse strategy, but it had a great soundtrack (Wagner). If you want to tell me Wagner is bad music, you're in for a spanking.


Wagner's music … is much better than it sounds.

Blogger Bodo Staron September 19, 2016 12:46 PM  

I went to a catholic kindergarten as a child. One of the stories I remember was of St. Martin, who split his mantle in two and gave it to a beggar.
He did not hack it into pieces and gave a hundred beggars a tiny piece. I still remember whenever I hear a Bishop or some other "higher" Church official talk about giving to "refugees" and welcome more and more of them.

Anonymous DaveP. September 19, 2016 12:51 PM  

If your church (or pastor) says he's "Interested in doing GOOD works, not just GOD's works"...

If your church has ever done a positive sermon on the following: Gun control, 'trans rights', "Black Lives Matter", or feminism- presented as if they were religious subjects (bonus points if it was all at once!)...

If your pastor has ever done a sermon with a popular song as a theme (e.g. "Bridge Over Troubled Waters")...

If your church has a display of brochures to inform the congregation how vitally, desperately important it is to the Church to pressure your elected officials to vote their support for illegal aliens (complete with pictures of happy little Hispanic children)- but doesn't say a word about parishioners who vote and donate to political parties that support abortion...

Anonymous Hoppes #9 September 19, 2016 12:52 PM  

Jesus’ interchange with the woman shows his sense of humor as well as illustrates the fact that the Gospel is meant for all, regardless of nationality. (Nations, of course, being instituted by God from Genesis to the nations filing into the New Jerusalem in Revelation.) He uses the obvious statement that you would not throw food meant for your children to the dogs in a mocking comparison to the Pharisaical attitude of the religious Jews who looked down on the rest of the world rather than being a light unto the nations.
The woman’s answer, like the Centurian’s answer was the perfect response from a position of faith. This brings a chuckle to the faithful and a load of butthurt to the self righteous religious zealots of the time. Recall His sermon in Nazareth (Luke 4) when He mentioned how God through Elijah helped the gentile widow in Zarephath and the Syrian general Naaman. The hometown crowd wanted to stone Him.

Anonymous Drummergirl September 19, 2016 12:53 PM  

"He meant the gospel came to the Jews first. But he still healed the gentile woman's daughter. God loves all people equally."

One interpretation I saw would refute this.

It seems Jesus had lead his disciples to a secluded location in order to get some much needed rest. His words could actually mean that he was looking out for their interests (not letting them be disturbed as would happen if he went back to the woman's home with her). So, instead of just telling the woman "no", he essentially says He needs to take care of his own (his disciples) before meeting her/her daughter's needs. The woman understands this, but finds a "loophole" in Jesus' story. He is impressed by her persistence and faith and decides to heal her daughter.

This makes a lot of sense and seems to align much better with your interpretation Vox - taking care of your own before meeting the needs of others.

Here's the link to what I read:
http://christianthinktank.com/qcrude.html

Blogger S1AL September 19, 2016 12:54 PM  

@VFM #6306 - That's what I get for glancing at the passage. My mistake.

Blogger Student in Blue September 19, 2016 1:00 PM  

@140. Bodo Staron
He did not hack it into pieces and gave a hundred beggars a tiny piece. I still remember whenever I hear a Bishop or some other "higher" Church official talk about giving to "refugees" and welcome more and more of them.

He also didn't donate someone else's mantle, but he split his own.

There's a distinct lack of refugee-supporters who host them in their own homes. And those few who do, promptly find themselves very unhappy.

Anonymous dagwood September 19, 2016 1:14 PM  

"Wagner's music … is much better than it sounds."

Oh, that Mark Twain, such a witty rogue. What did he know how to play, like a banjo, maybe?

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants September 19, 2016 1:28 PM  

Just turned on local radio in time to hear Rush Limbaugh reading this piece from National Review cuck, Andrew C McCarthy, former member of Bush, Inc.
I'd love to see Vox give this the treatment it truly deserves.
A dose of "Judeo-Christian, melting pot, vibrancy of #NotAll Muslims!" you never wanted.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/440173/ny-nj-bombings-show-islamic-terrorist-ideology-must-be-confronted?target=author&tid=900151

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants September 19, 2016 1:28 PM  

Just turned on local radio in time to hear Rush Limbaugh reading this piece from National Review cuck, Andrew C McCarthy, former member of Bush, Inc.
I'd love to see Vox give this the treatment it truly deserves.
A dose of "Judeo-Christian, melting pot, vibrancy of #NotAll Muslims!" you never wanted.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/440173/ny-nj-bombings-show-islamic-terrorist-ideology-must-be-confronted?target=author&tid=900151

Blogger residentMoron September 19, 2016 1:45 PM  

@33

"... I don't think the self-proclaimed (and proven) King of kings cares much for nations."

A king of kings is an emperor. A King who rules over other kings (including their kingdoms).

Those kings in turn rule over their own kingdoms, or nations.

Basically, you cannot HAVE a king of kings without nations.

So your contention is ... dubious at best.

Blogger JWM September 19, 2016 1:46 PM  

jwm on everything that's wrong, and what we need to do:

Deportation:
All illegal aliens must be sent home. No employment. No government benefits except a one way ticket out.

Repatriation:
No refugee status. period. All muslims. All Africans. All Asians must be returned to their countres of origin.

Immigration:
Anglosphere only.

Segregation:
Create black autonomy zones geographically distant from cities and suburbs. Choke point ingress and egress. No welfare, no EBT outside the zones. Build the equivalent of a PX system (think of a heavily armored Costco) to supply basic needs. There they can police themselves, maintain their own infrastructure, education.

De-regulation:
The EPA, ATF, DEA, and a host of other alphabet agencies must be gutted, defunded, and reduced to publishing "guidelines" in print, available for perusal at your local library.

Communication:
Print and broadcast media must be purged of the narrative. Install a true "fairness doctrine" requiring counterpoint programming to any show promoting leftist political or social subtexts.

Education:
(see communication) No student loans for any field except engineering, chemistry, medicine.

For a start...

JWM


Blogger Ingot9455 September 19, 2016 2:05 PM  

Notice that the Caananite's miracle took place at the location of her demon-possessed daughter, not at the location of the mother, where Jesus was. Nor did Jesus give her a talisman or some such device for her to carry his power to her daughter (as would be mythologically common).

Her faith was enough, AND she had to go back home to realize the benefit of the blessing. Brilliant, on Jesus's part.

Anonymous Northern Observer September 19, 2016 2:08 PM  

"This is all too typical. Pastor Richard is clearly a Churchian and one of the wolves in sheep's clothing of whom the Apostle Paul warned. The Churchians preach a god who does not hate the wicked and they preach the Gospel of Babel, in which there are no nations and everyone is the same and all are loved equally by their god.

And their god is not our God. Their god is the prince of this world."


While Christians can disagree on a wide range of issues and politics, I think that you need to be careful when attributing someone's teachings to the devil.

If you're wrong, it could almost be unforgivable.

Anonymous >>>The October Shiv September 19, 2016 2:21 PM  

LOL good post voxxy. I personally am loving your sharpened knives toward jewry as of late.

There is one of those born-again type churchian churches around here, and when I pressed my buddy for info on who his pastor was...he admitted the pastor was an "EX" (((ykw)))), as if there is such a thing as an "EX" (((ykw))) !!!! That jew must love fleecing our flock.

Ughhh...

Anonymous Didas Kalos September 19, 2016 2:31 PM  

The 'chlidren's bread' referred to healing in the Abrahamic covenant. Since she was not an Israelite, and not a daughter of Abraham, she had no covenant with God. Only the children of Abraham were in the covenant.
The analogy Jesus used was somewhat insulting to her. But this woman reached out by faith and took something that legally wasn't hers yet. Jesus had not went to the cross and paid the price for the new covenant. Which said New Covenant she would have access to through Jesus after his resurrection. But faith moves God!
Jesus was not sent to any nation but to Israel. We are the ones he said to Go Into All The World and preach the Gospel!

Blogger CM September 19, 2016 2:38 PM  

If your idea of a "hymn" is a scruffy hippy on acoustic guitar slowly droning "Hallelujah" twenty times in a row, you might be a Churchian.

My church petitioned the vestry to get rid of hymns! We are now singing contemporary songs for the processional and recessional. Not to be out done by the congregation, our pianist is now doing nothing but hymns for the communion set (where we USED to do contemporary).

Anonymous rienzi September 19, 2016 2:55 PM  

13. "Paul's statement "To the Jew first and then to the Greek" shows he understood a difference between his people, the Jews, and others. Also Paul makes this amazing statement in Titus 1:12-13:

One of them, a prophet of their own, said, “The Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, and idle gluttons!” This witness is true. So rebuke them sharply that they may be sound in the faith."

I hold no particular brief for them, but as no one has put in a good word for the inhabitants of Crete I will.

Things must have changed greatly in the past two millennia, since as a whole I have found the Cretans to be no better or worse than any other people. Frankly, if given the choice between having to spend the rest of my life in the company of Cretans or Jews I would be on the plane to Heraklion in a heartbeat.

Anonymous Drummergirl September 19, 2016 3:14 PM  

@141
Let me add -

If your church has ever based a sermon on a Hollywood movie...

Anonymous Anonymous September 19, 2016 3:20 PM  

This is exactly why I stopped attending church,despite still believing in God and Jesus. This heretical syncretism of Christianity and secular humanism such as egalitarianism drove me away from the Church. This blasphemous syncretism with egalitarianism is not true Christianity, and betrays Christians to Muslim intolerance and persecution, as well as secular humanist discrimination. God was big on walls as protection, invasion from foreigners as judgment, not integrating with people from other religions (be holy and separate), not accepting other religions (a common OT theme), OT proclamations stating Jews not intermarry with gentiles, and Christianity as the one true religion (is, rejecting pantheism and all religions are equal concepts). I'm disgusted with the liberal church, actually, and Christianity is dying due to the corruption and unfaithfulness of His people. The Vatican is only one example of this.

OpenID leukosfash September 19, 2016 3:27 PM  

When I saw the sign on Twatter, I thought they were proposing a trade.

Anonymous Anonymous September 19, 2016 3:27 PM  

http://mobile.wnd.com/2016/09/wearing-cross-un-christian-says-church-of-sweden-official/ A perfect example of heresy killing the Church in Sweden. The "church" wants to become a "secular humanist ethical values" organization in Sweden. What a blasphemous betrayal of the Christian faith in Sweden. I'd be a secularist too if that's all the church of Sweden can offer. Their judgment will be Islamic conquering until the Swedish culture and people are no more. Pathetic, weak, corrupted, faithless "church" in Sweden.

Anonymous CloseHauled September 19, 2016 3:53 PM  

VD,

Ever see these quotes by Abe Foxman?

Is Zionism racist? Foxman: ‘You bet it is. Every nationalism is’

...
Foxman's manner is over-the-top. Here is the speech from which I've taken my headline:

“Can you be anti-Zionist and not be an anti-Semite? Almost never. Unless you can prove to me you're against nationalism. If you're one of those unique individuals in this world that's opposed to American nationalism, French nationalism, Palestinian nationalism, then you can be opposed to Jewish nationalism. Is it racist? You bet it is. Every nationalism is racist. It sets its laws of citizenship, it sets its own capital… It sets its songs, it sets its values. It is, if you will, exclusive, and you can even call it racist. But if the only nationalism in the world that is racist is Jewish nationalism, then you're an anti-Semite.. I don't want to make any apologies for it. ”
Breathtaking. But not good for business. Hey I voted for Obama. Earlier in the night Foxman said in frustration that it has become impossible to sell Zionism in the west, even to Jews who are happy to march on the U.N. and say, We support Israel! And when he gives that speech about racism, well now you know."

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 19, 2016 3:55 PM  

If you've never sat alone in the night after realizing just what a shitheel you are, you may be a Churchian.

If you go to Church to feel good about yourself, you may be a Churchian.

If you've ever objected to a sermon because it went too hard on sinners, you may be a Churchian.

If you've never more sermons on inclusion, welcoming all, and racism than on abortion, divorce, ore sexual immorality, you may be a Churchian.

And finally.....

If you're sometimes amazed at how much Christ agrees with you and all your friends, if you ever tell somebody that Christianity is easy, if you think God loves you just the way you are...

You are definitely a Churchian.

Blogger Log September 19, 2016 4:03 PM  

Since the (((Jews))) proselyted (Matthew 23:15), (((Jesus Christ))) was not referring to the woman's lineage at all but her status within Israel; Israel is a proposition nation, made up of those who keep the commandments of God, be they of whatever lineage they may be (cf: Matthew 3:9). (((Jesus))) referred to her as a dog because she lived among the (((Jews))) but had not joined their nation and was hence not part of the proposition family (cf. Luke 8:21), even if she lived in the household.

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 19, 2016 4:25 PM  

Happy Housewife wrote:@Escoffier

"Here's my question: what should a Christian do when it's obvious that the lampstand has been removed from a Church?"

I hope it's still in the works, but I saw an idea proposed here not long ago to make a map of where like minded Ilk can meet for a home church. I might have misread it though. I sure hope there is one in the works. Our choices around here consist of fully converged Churchianity churches or dying churches, as in the congregation is so old and stagnant they are literally dying off.


Ask and you shall receive.

Anonymous Mark Twain's Spirit in the Sky September 19, 2016 4:46 PM  

dagwood wrote:"Wagner's music … is much better than it sounds."

Oh, that Mark Twain, such a witty rogue. What did he know how to play, like a banjo, maybe?



You have to admit it was quite good. In all fairness to Wagner (another YT who's up here in the sky), folks likely didn't do the stuff justice back in the day. Only in recent decades have there been vocalists actually able to sing the pitches in tune without it sounding like sprech-gesang of (((Schoenberg))). Odd as it may seem, the old quip was literally true.

Blogger Huggums September 19, 2016 4:57 PM  

I don't believe God loves all people equally, but I don't know that He has shown favor to any nation in particular except the Jews. And I would also imagine nations that serve him. You mentioned that Russia is now the defender of white Christians in another post, and that may contribute to their rise and America's decline. Vox, what is your theory of why God shows favor to certain individuals? Is it that God favors nations and individuals that serve him? This wouldn't apply to Abraham. Is it that He sees certain qualities in individuals?

Blogger dienw September 19, 2016 5:03 PM  

If your church has a sign outside declaring, "A loving God for a Loving People," you mi...are a Churchian; and lost at that.

Blogger Huggums September 19, 2016 5:09 PM  

Actually I just saw J A Baker's biblical quotes and I think that pretty much answers my questions.

Anonymous Punisher September 19, 2016 5:16 PM  

@154 Didas, reading this entire thread, your post summarizes it best. Well said! It reminds me of when Mary believed Jesus could fix the problem of empty wine jars and Jesus responded that his time had not yet come...yet he responded to her faith and called forth something that was not supposed to be until later!

I believe that Vox's interpretation is a valid application of the verse but that Pastor Richard is not wrong to say it juxtaposes Jews/Gentiles - much like the "other sheep" of John 10:16.

Pastor Richard may very well be a churchian and he was wrong to accuse Vox of not being a Christian...but I can't find anything wrong with the statement that "God loves all people equally" (which in NO WAY implies some obligation to welcome the refugees!).

JBowers, don't mind VFM #6306. You made great points. He's just cranky.

Blogger Escoffier September 19, 2016 5:24 PM  

JWM wrote:
Repatriation:

No refugee status. period. All muslims. All Africans. All Asians must be returned to their countres of origin.


Segregation:

Create black autonomy zones geographically distant from cities and suburbs. Choke point ingress and egress. No welfare, no EBT outside the zones. Build the equivalent of a PX system (think of a heavily armored Costco) to supply basic needs. There they can police themselves, maintain their own infrastructure, education.

JWM


First question: do you really think 'African Americans' are? Because if not logic dictates deporting all Africans.

In my humble it appears to me that Africans and all lower IQ folks living in higher IQ nations tend to have psychotic breaks every twenty years or so and start burning stuff down.

Second question: why would you consign your and everybody else's children to eternal warfare simply because you lack the balls to even think about the only possible answer to this mess. Related: segregation assumes that some good hearted librul politician won't tug at the heart strings and get all these dindu nuffins released so they can get back to the important stuff like killing and raping Whites.

To anyone advocating segregation as a good I would love to hear your responses to these questions? I understand all about political necessity but what I'm saying is in a perfect world scenario why would you opt for segregation over repatriation?

Anonymous CloseHauled September 19, 2016 5:26 PM  

Hope.

When single moms are tatted up Tinder whores this is what rebellion looks like:

They don't like drugs or gay marriage, and they HATE tattoos: Is 'Generation Z' the most conservative since WW2?




Blogger FSL September 19, 2016 5:26 PM  

Why not start your own?

Blogger Escoffier September 19, 2016 5:29 PM  

Aeoli Pera wrote:Happy Housewife wrote:@Escoffier

"Here's my question: what should a Christian do when it's obvious that the lampstand has been removed from a Church?"

I hope it's still in the works, but I saw an idea proposed here not long ago to make a map of where like minded Ilk can meet for a home church. I might have misread it though. I sure hope there is one in the works. Our choices around here consist of fully converged Churchianity churches or dying churches, as in the congregation is so old and stagnant they are literally dying off.


Ask and you shall receive.


Is this what we're doing now? I have no problem with this but I thought Marrku was working on a double good secret version for folks who give a rat's ass to maintain cover? Or did I miss a memo?

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd September 19, 2016 5:45 PM  

Escoffier wrote:I thought Marrku was working on a double good secret version for folks who give a rat's ass to maintain cover?

Cover is being maintained, 100%. I'm not seeing any homes listed on there.

I considered putting the church I attend on there (not a home church, but definitely not churchian), but this town is too small, and too isolated.

Blogger EmpReb September 19, 2016 5:46 PM  

That right there is why I hate the modern church. They will never win by trying to make a white wash(clean) hollywood because that never was the problem it was WHO was running the damn system.

Anonymous Drummergirl September 19, 2016 5:49 PM  

@167

I'm not sure about the statement "God loves all people equally". He sure seems to have favorites all throughout the old testament. It's something I've often wondered about, but then again, I don't know that we always appreciate God's definition of love.

Blogger Escoffier September 19, 2016 6:02 PM  

Fair enough I will sign up forthwith. Thanks aeoli!

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 19, 2016 6:56 PM  

@167
but I can't find anything wrong with the statement that "God loves all people equally" (

Perhaps you should read the BIble more. Start with Genesis.

Abram's brother Lot went to live in the kingdom of Sodom. Did God love the people in Sodom and Gomorrah?

Did God love Esau?

Move on to Exodus. Did God love the children of Pharoh? Soldiers of Pharoh?

Move on to the book of Joshua. Did God love Rahab? How about everyone else in her town?

I can go on and on, and then into the New Testament where Jesus talks about sheep, goats and the difference. Then there's Revelation, where God clearly hates and acts on that hate.

If you believe that "God loves everyone equally", you might be a Churchian.

Anonymous Punisher September 19, 2016 7:39 PM  

@174 Drummergirl I hear what you are saying. There are a lot of verses about God not being a respecter of persons. There is the disciple that Jesus loved...by John's own admission. I would say that everyone is a child of God and God loves them until that love is ultimately rejected. God may appear to have his favorites in that he rewards obedience so not everyone's standing before him is the same on judgment day but is there a human being that has ever been born that God did not love? I don't believe so. Jesus went to the cross because he "so loved the world...that whoever believes."

@167 A Paradigm But God did love all of those people and many of them rejected God's love, which is the choice we are all given. Some fall under corporate judgment which is a tough subject, but in those cases, God's holiness took priority over the preservation of their earthly lives. It's not an easy subject but it's definitely not "churchian" to say that God loves everyone...because it is in John 3:16.

Blogger Joe A. September 19, 2016 7:42 PM  

The pastor almost sounds demonic to even deny that the children of the nation come before foreigners in foreign lands. Good Lord, I can't make sense out of that.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 19, 2016 7:56 PM  

@167 A Paradigm

But God did love all of those people

Sure about that?

Direct question: Did God love Esau? Yes or no?
You should read Malachi chapter 1 before answering. Pay attention to verse 2 and 3.

and many of them rejected God's love, which is the choice we are all given. Some fall under corporate judgment which is a tough subject, but in those cases, God's holiness took priority over the preservation of their earthly lives.

So did God love the people of Sodom or not? Have you read the relevant passages, where God and Abram have a dialog about that city?


It's not an easy subject but it's definitely not "churchian" to say that God loves everyone...because it is in John 3:16

Let's read the entire verse.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Did you miss the part about those who believe in, vs. those who reject Jesus?

Are you arguing that atheists and others who flatly reject God and his Son are just as loved as those who cling to Jesus? Because that is Churchian, not Christian.

Anonymous Godfrey September 19, 2016 7:56 PM  

Was this picture taken in Tel Aviv?

Have the Jews in Israel finally opened their border to the suffering refugees in Syria?

Has Jewish hypocrisy come to an end?

Blogger Phillip George September 19, 2016 7:56 PM  

separation of Church and State is still killing you.

you can't touch holy cow secularism and the preachers of the World Wide Church of Secularism.

the war remains against simple historical truth/ absolute Truth/ historical facts based truth

"thy Kingdom Come, they will be done on Earth" means

we do our bit to build it, grow it, run it, rule it, enforce it, protect it....

you have been brainwashed with delusions of "neutral spaces" "safe spaces" secularism - a modern mythology that literally kills.

Blogger yoghi.llama September 19, 2016 7:59 PM  

Nobody should make fun of #jewsforrefugees. Bad taste.

Israel is a genuine multicultural society and welcomes the stranger.

http://youtu.be/9awflyLN5w0

Blogger guest September 19, 2016 8:03 PM  

Yeah, you are right. That preacher did deliberately misinterpret that quote. The quote wasn't discussing anything at all about the gospel coming from the Jews, or that God loves everyone. Not that I am disagreeing about these points, but that event is not about those points.

The good pastor really needs to take a look at what Jesus stated about His own kingdom, not just in Matthew,but especially in Matthew. There are people that are in the kingdom, and there are people outside of the kingdom, and the people who are outside of the kingdom are neither given citizenship or entrance. Christ, our God, most certainly does not allow open borders to His kingdom.


Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter.

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 19, 2016 8:09 PM  

Escoffier wrote:Aeoli Pera wrote:Happy Housewife wrote:@Escoffier

"Here's my question: what should a Christian do when it's obvious that the lampstand has been removed from a Church?"

I hope it's still in the works, but I saw an idea proposed here not long ago to make a map of where like minded Ilk can meet for a home church. I might have misread it though. I sure hope there is one in the works. Our choices around here consist of fully converged Churchianity churches or dying churches, as in the congregation is so old and stagnant they are literally dying off.


Ask and you shall receive.


Is this what we're doing now? I have no problem with this but I thought Marrku was working on a double good secret version for folks who give a rat's ass to maintain cover? Or did I miss a memo?


I dunno nothin' about that because I'm bad at group participation. This took two seconds to make though, literally just signing up and writing out the title.

Anonymous Punisher September 19, 2016 8:11 PM  

@179 A Paradigm
Yes, I reread Malachi 1 and God hates Esau. So no, he does not love Esau (unless you're going with the interpretation from the Hebrew that God "loves less" to mean "hate"). Does that mean that God didn't love Esau before he sold his birthright? I don't think so. Esau wasn't repentant and therefore did not enter into covenant with God. That doesn't mean that the doors of love and forgiveness were not once open for Esau.

I didn't miss the part about whosoever believes....I actually quoted that in my last comment. And the point still stands that God loves the whole world but the only ones who will receive eternal life are those who believe. So yes...the Parable of the Prodigal Son/Merciful Father does show us a Father in Heaven who is patiently waiting for us blasphemers, atheists, devil-worshipers to repent and believe. God loves us until it's too late for us to "confess with our tongues and believe in our hearts that Jesus is Lord."

Do you still believe my view of God is churchian?

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 19, 2016 8:13 PM  

Ominous Cowherd wrote:Escoffier wrote:I thought Marrku was working on a double good secret version for folks who give a rat's ass to maintain cover?

Cover is being maintained, 100%. I'm not seeing any homes listed on there.

I considered putting the church I attend on there (not a home church, but definitely not churchian), but this town is too small, and too isolated.


I figure the idea is just to put down a marker as close as you're comfortable, then make contact with people nearby and coordinate from there. I'm not precisely in the middle of Indianapolis, but it's close enough for logistics.

Escoffier wrote:Fair enough I will sign up forthwith. Thanks aeoli!

You're welcome. If Markku does the thing you talking about, I'd recommend running with his implementation instead. Like I said, this was on a whim but I see no immediate problems with it.

Anonymous Punisher September 19, 2016 8:14 PM  

@183 guest

Good point. I agree with what you are saying but it might help to clarify that this kingdom is "not of this world" or spiritual. Which doesn't directly translate to geographical borders.

Blogger JWM September 19, 2016 8:23 PM  

@168
Actually this was supposed to go on the Trump thread, so my apologies for the OT. A quick response because I'm on lunch break.
Segregation for purely practical considerations: It would take a military campaign to forceably remove people in those numbers. Too, they are, like it or not, citizens and not refugees. I figure we're going to be paying for them anyway, so at least we should have the option of not associating with them. Contain the problem. This would prevent section 8 housing invading suburbs through AFFH. Creating autonomous zones would remove the worst of the black population by passive means: They want welfare, EBT, Section 8, etc. they don't have to take it, but it's only available in location X.

JWM

Anonymous Drummergirl September 19, 2016 8:33 PM  

@177 Punisher
You are absolutely correct to say that God loves all people, the question is, does he love them equally? It would seem from the scripture that He loves some people more than others - King David, for example. I think it makes us feel better to think God loves us all equally, but that doesn't make it true. Even if God doesn't love me as much as he loved King David, I know He still loved me enough to send His Son to die a horrific death for my salvation, so I'm not going to feel too badly about the discrepancy.

Anonymous CatholicOne September 19, 2016 8:36 PM  

If you believe that "God loves everyone equally", you might be a Churchian.

To love, in the Christian sense, is to will the good of another. God loves everyone equally because God wills the salvation of everyone:

As sacrament, the Church is Christ's instrument. "She is taken up by him also as the instrument for the salvation of all," "the universal sacrament of salvation," by which Christ is "at once manifesting and actualizing the mystery of God's love for men." The Church "is the visible plan of God's love for humanity," because God desires "that the whole human race may become one People of God, form one Body of Christ, and be built up into one temple of the Holy Spirit.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p1.htm

I don't think this supports the pastor. We are not God. Our powers are limited and there is nothing wrong or un-Christian to have a preference for our own children and family.



Anonymous Punisher September 19, 2016 8:46 PM  

@189 Drummergirl
And I am actually content to agree with your phrasing of it. In Romans 5:20 it says that "where sin abounded grace abounded all the more." So we know that we don't all receive the same amount of grace. It's probably trivial to argue how much God loves - maybe some people need more than others!

My concern is that we don't cast stones at Pastor Richard because I know I have said ignorant things about the faith before and I grew more when people gently showed me mercy and patience and then corrected me. That's all.

Blogger guest September 19, 2016 8:47 PM  

@187 Punisher. The fact that Christ's kingdom is worldly does not follow that it doesn't have borders. It has keys, correct? I hope that you will allow that any kingdom that has keys in which people can be allowed in or kept out, also comes with borders.

More to the point, since I believe that the kingdom is the church, we can at least discuss the church. We know that God required the church to withdraw from active sinners. That most certainly is a border placed between the sinner and the church. I hope you agree that churches have physical borders, as well as insiders and outsiders.




1 Corinthians 5
5 I can hardly believe the report about the sexual immorality going on among you—something that even pagans don’t do. I am told that a man in your church is living in sin with his stepmother.[a] 2 You are so proud of yourselves, but you should be mourning in sorrow and shame. And you should remove this man from your fellowship.

3 Even though I am not with you in person, I am with you in the Spirit. And as though I were there, I have already passed judgment on this man 4 in the name of the Lord Jesus. You must call a meeting of the church. I will be present with you in spirit, and so will the power of our Lord Jesus. 5 Then you must throw this man out and hand him over to Satan so that his sinful nature will be destroyed and he himself will be saved on the day the Lord returns.



9 When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin. 10 But I wasn’t talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or are greedy, or cheat people, or worship idols. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that. 11 I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Don’t even eat with such people.

12 It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning. 13 God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, “You must remove the evil person from among you.”

Blogger guest September 19, 2016 8:52 PM  

@177 Punisher. The bible most certainly never states that everyone is a child of God. If that was the case, why did God have to adopt us?

Romans 8:23 And we believers also groan, even though we have the Holy Spirit within us as a foretaste of future glory, for we long for our bodies to be released from sin and suffering. We, too, wait with eager hope for the day when God will give us our full rights as his adopted children, including the new bodies he has promised us.

Blogger SirHamster September 19, 2016 9:09 PM  

CatholicOne wrote:If you believe that "God loves everyone equally", you might be a Churchian.
=============
To love, in the Christian sense, is to will the good of another. God loves everyone equally because God wills the salvation of everyone:


He loves all equally in that all are equally given the offer to repent and be saved.

He does not love all equally in that not all are saved. Those who do not repent will suffer His full wrath and judgement.

The Churchian aspect is to ignore the second sense because that makes people feel bad.

Anonymous Punisher September 19, 2016 9:10 PM  

@193 guest My apologies. You're right. That was a poor choice of a word. I meant that we are all God's creation and made wonderfully in his sight (and loved) but it is correct to say that we are only considered his children when we are "born again." Thank you for the correction.

Blogger Rach Jones September 19, 2016 9:11 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Drummergirl September 19, 2016 9:14 PM  

@192 Punisher
One can only hope Pastor Richard would be as open to growing as you are. In my experience, these churchian pastors are more concerned about filling their pews with people than they are about filling those people with the true Word of God. Fortunately, "with God all things are possible" - even opening the eyes of a churchian.

Anonymous Punisher September 19, 2016 9:25 PM  

@192 guest That is a good point. Yes, I grant that the Kingdom has keys that unlock spiritual realities. The church is definitely a physical place in the passage that you mention, although it is interesting that Paul was present spiritually. I see what you are getting at with putting people outside of the gathering of believers - that is a physical location. But to say, "there is the Kingdom of Heaven over there...", that is a different matter because the Kingdom of Heaven is in the hearts of men, not in a physical location.

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