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Sunday, September 18, 2016

An interview with Decius Mus

American Greatness interviews the author of the Flight 93 article:
AG: Michael Walsh, the PJMedia columnist and author of The Devil’s Pleasure Palace, notes that the most vociferous in the conservative NeverTrump camp tend to be those under 50. Do you think there is a generation gap among conservatives and, if so, what accounts for it?

It does seem that, the younger a (nominal) conservative is, the more likely he is to be against Trump. I think this is owing to two things, at least. This will sound like an old man being cranky, so take it with due allowances.

The first is that the young are not educated. Not that I got the greatest education, but it was pretty good. Still the people who taught me were far more educated than I am now, and the oldest ones were the best educated of the bunch. And my sense is that their teachers—most of whom I never met, or were even dead before I was born—were better educated than even they were. So in terms of education and knowledge, we’re on a downward trend and have been for a while.

What that means is that young conservatives learn conservatism as a checklist. They don’t really read books, except recent “conservative” bestsellers. They read excerpts from the Federalist at a summer fellowship and think that’s an education. Not to knock summer fellowships, but they are supposed to be gateways, not complete educations. And they don’t really read anything harder or deeper than the Federalist (not to knock it, either, but the Founders read Aristotle, Cicero, Locke, Sidney, Montesquieu and more).

So on the basis of a rather flimsy education, they think they know what conservatism is, but it’s just a catechism for them, a hymnal. And they compare Trump’s policy positions to their hymnal and they see discrepancies and they just default to “Heretic! Not conservative!”

Which points to the second, which is that older conservative intellectuals tend to have better educations and read more widely so they have a broader perspective. They also have the benefit of hard-won experience and an understanding that compromise, course changes, tactical adjustments and so on are sometimes necessary. They’re less “idealistic” in the sense of uncompromisingly foolish. And—speculating here—they have seen America at its best, or when it was much better, so they know we’ve fallen and they don’t want to see us fall further.

The kidlets, as I call them, were raised on a diet of racism-this and equality-that and that’s-not-who-we-are, so they can’t process anything that seems to contradict the narrative. To them “conservatism” is the 1980 campaign’s economic platform spot-welded to Millennial identity politics and sexual libertarianism. Freedom!
He's absolutely correct. As John Red Eagle and I have demonstrated, conservatism is something very different than most self-described conservatives believe. Conservatives don't have an ideology and they don't even understand what it is they are supposedly trying to conserve. It's little more than an attitude and a pose; they can't even reasonably describe themselves as Constitutionalists because they oppose the very purpose of the U.S. Constitution, not that they are aware of that.

Anyhow, it's a really good interview. Read the whole thing.

Labels:

81 Comments:

Blogger Dave September 18, 2016 11:16 AM  

Conservatives (young and old) are the new Libertarians: poseurs who are mostly interested in kvetching (sorry about the Yiddish) and heckling, but not willing to actually fight for what they claim to support.

OpenID paworldandtimes September 18, 2016 11:27 AM  

Good point about each successive generation being taught by less-and-less well educated teachers.

A corrective had emerged, though: blogs. One can pick up a solid "great books for men" M.A.-level education in English or history just from a couple of comment threads at CH and with follow-on online/librabry research.

PA

Blogger KJE September 18, 2016 11:32 AM  

Today's conservatives have grown up in a regime where their conservative forefathers have failed to conserve, failed to educate their children, and allowed a progressive and liberalized education system to pervert the meaning of not only the Constitution, but also Aristotle, Cicero, Locke, Sidney, Montesquieu... if they even got that education in the first place.

Beyond that, they've largely never known true want, struggle to achieve (participation trophies kids?), or the physical and mental burden that involves stepping towards any type of public duty (military, local law enforcement, fire departments, or even EMS) that would put them at risk of limb and life.

It's worse than Chuck Panahuk wrote, we are not only a generation of men raised by women, we are a generation of people that value "Call of Duty" more than we value rising to duty.

I don't buy into the whole "it takes a village" line, but by and large neither public education or parents are properly educating children. And too often (even with me I will admit), it took discovery of red pill thinking to get me into these deeper thought systems. If we don't feed children these moral and civics lessons early, they seem more and more foreign, and likely to be disdained or even loathed, when they are finally confronted with them.

Blogger praetorian September 18, 2016 11:46 AM  

Michael Walsh, the PJMedia columnist and author of The Devil’s Pleasure Palace, notes that the most vociferous in the conservative NeverTrump camp tend to be those under 50. Do you think there is a generation gap among conservatives and, if so, what accounts for it?

He avoids the obvious answer: young MSM conservative commentators are now usually jews, women or minorities, by (((design))).

Does he think the chans are filled with 50-year olds?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 18, 2016 12:00 PM  

The commenters who aren't women, Jews or minorities are found in the various shades of the alt-right.

Blogger bob k. mando ( the hardest troll here ) September 18, 2016 12:03 PM  

Publius
So on the basis of a rather flimsy education, they think they know what conservatism is, but it’s just a catechism for them, a hymnal. And they compare Trump’s policy positions to their hymnal and they see discrepancies and they just default to “Heretic! Not conservative!”



the most hilarious thing being, of course, that those discrepancies which cause them to scream, "Heretic" are those discrepancies which violate Marxist ( not Constitutional ) ideals.

funny, that.

how is it that Conservatives became the most trusted defenders of the Marxist advance? ( Rhetorical )

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 18, 2016 12:08 PM  

Bob,

That is a very important observation. I remember watching Sarah Palin in 2008 demanding that more people pay income taxes so to have more skin in the game. I was wondering if she knew the progressive income tax is a central plank of Commumism.

Anonymous Roundtine September 18, 2016 12:18 PM  

Surprised that he's older, I thought it was written by a Gen Xer.

Anonymous crushlimbraw September 18, 2016 12:19 PM  

This is dead on! My continuing argument of the failure of both Conservatives and Christians is bottom lined by this question: "So you're telling me that what you teach at home will supercede what your public school teaches your children M-F 8 hours per day?"
It's a case closed question - intended to be so! The lack of perspective is mind numbing - it's literally delusional!
When Jesus said: "Make disciples of all nations...." - I ask: "And you're delegating that to the servants of Babel?" - the principle applies to everything we do!
Guess what they spout? Exactly what this author has spelled out - they don't know what they don't know - and are the last to fess up to that fact.
We lost every institution to the Leftist Progs in America in the last 100 years, not because they're Progs - but because our watchmen and owners were too frickin' lazy to notice. I spell out on my website that we old farts lost this country - it's up to us to get it back! Starting NOW!

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr September 18, 2016 12:22 PM  

Vox, I think the fall of the Soviet Union has a lot to do with it. As you've pointed out, classical conservatism is defensive, defined as opposition to something. And the Godless Commie Horde was Opponent #1. The kids never got that opponent. Add to this the rising snobbery in the USA, and you see why things went awry.

Blogger Were-Puppy September 18, 2016 12:24 PM  

@8 Roundtine
Surprised that he's older, I thought it was written by a Gen Xer.
--

It is still possible. He could be on the edge of genx
2016-1965 = 51

Anonymous Wyrd the Adorable Deplorable September 18, 2016 12:25 PM  

Just read the comments following that article. Trying to figure out if John Ash is a Hillary shill, ball-gagged cuck, or both at the same time. Off to get some disinfectant spray.

Blogger VFM #7191 September 18, 2016 12:26 PM  

Wyrd the Adorable Deplorable wrote:Just read the comments following that article. Trying to figure out if John Ash is a Hillary shill, ball-gagged cuck, or both at the same time. Off to get some disinfectant spray.

I think he's some sort of lolbertarian.

Anonymous Down and Out in... September 18, 2016 12:37 PM  

All these ideas are well and good, and certainly very interesting. But I think the central issue is simpler, and more, um, central. It's more identitaire, it's like the latest Ramzpaul entry where he shows video of the streets of Budapest (nice clean beautiful city full of nice clean beautiful white people) and then Paris (overrun with foreign layabout Africans sleeping on filthy mattresses on the sidewalk). Que voulez-vous, monsieur?

When people say to me (and they actually do) that Trump is "literally Hitler," I crack a big grin and say, Great, we could use a bit of Hitler around here. What they never seem to understand is that Obama, Merkel, GWB, Wolfowitz, Hillary, Sarkozy, Blair, Cameron, Brussels.... they're all Hitler too, it's just that they're SOMEBODY ELSE'S Hitler.

Blogger tz September 18, 2016 12:37 PM  

Half OT, but from the Sunday Bulletin at church asking for a new prayer warrior group commitment:

This is based on the fact that, as heads of households, it is only fitting that grace should be drawn from Heaven first and foremost by the men of our community

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 18, 2016 12:51 PM  

Hitler was a successful mass murderer. The rest are committing mass murder by other methods. One common strain is gun control. If there was an HK91 in every German household, how far would this be going? If the Germans in Bautzen were armed with pistols and rifles we would have seen a different outcome.

Blogger dc.sunsets September 18, 2016 1:06 PM  

Everything of the respectable main stream was part of the Equals Temple cult, else it would by definition not be respectable.

Zion was still part of the Matrix. It served a purpose, to enable continuation.

The Alt-Right (and other signals like the Trump Phenomenon) represents Not-Matrix. Of course those who are mass minded attack it.

Blogger dc.sunsets September 18, 2016 1:08 PM  

Ethnic Germans can arm themselves any time they choose. Just storm a local Mosque.

Anonymous Wyrd the Adorable Deplorable September 18, 2016 1:10 PM  

Ethnic Germans can arm themselves any time they choose. Just storm a local Mosque.

Kek.

Blogger Sheila4g September 18, 2016 1:22 PM  

Point about each generation being progressively more ignorant and ill-educated is very on point. I remember feeling very fortunate in the education I received at the hands of the older professors whose classes I took - and they, themselves, were definitely taught be true scholars. I'm a pale imitation at best, trying to impart what I can to my sons.

The writer's emphasis on practicality and intuitive common sense above intellectual abstractions is also vital. So many echoes in his essay from Vox's "Cuckservatives" and Alt Right thought generally. He approaches, although never explicitly touches, Identitariaism. I'll take his substitution of "particularism" though - that's enough of a stretch for someone of his generation in the HBD direction. Love how he specifies the Founders specificity re what an American is and how to become one (again, echoes of "Cuckservatives").

One glaring absence (fully excusable given the forum and the length of the interview already) is the "why. He notes the "Old Right" lost against the New Deal, and the Buckley right lost against the Great Society and Civil Rights, but never explains why. Understanding why they lost is crucial to avoiding their mistakes, because if the Alt Right loses there's really no point of return. That's precisely why the (((conservative))) writers are all screeching - Jews realizing the gig is up, women realizing the patriarchal nature of reality is reasserting itself, and various brown people realizing Whites actually might not all be pacifist pussies.

Blogger Unknown September 18, 2016 1:23 PM  

@18 "Ethnic Germans can arm themselves any time they choose. Just storm a local Mosque."

I refuse to believe that compliance with Europe's gun laws is widespread as most assume it is. We know the compliance rate for Australia's semi-auto ban was roughly 25%, so I would imagine that the compliance rate for Germany is much higher, but not total, especially at the fringes where legit society meets the criminal element.

Once things get for real in Germany I believe you will see more G-3s and the like than the government thinks are out there.

The Paris attackers and the Belgium attackers both had real deal AK-47s, after all.

Blogger Unknown September 18, 2016 1:26 PM  

@2
I am in college right now, and I feel like a freaking genius compared to my class mates. I know more about the world and more history than nearly all of them put together, and I don't consider myself all that smart.

Anonymous Bob September 18, 2016 1:36 PM  

Older "conservatives" now enjoy the Medicaid prescription drug benefit that they fought decades to achieve ... Wasn't that what conservatism was all about.

Anonymous Bob September 18, 2016 1:40 PM  

Having the bottom half of the country pay income tax too is the opposite of progressive or graduated income tax.

Blogger Bard September 18, 2016 1:47 PM  

Home schooling is improving this, but 1st wave of these kids are just entering adulthood. Their public school peers are too and have not been exposed to anything else.

Blogger Bard September 18, 2016 1:55 PM  

But, they both can rally around online gaming and Fantasy Football!

Anonymous Battlefrog September 18, 2016 2:09 PM  

To be young and conservative means you are almost surely a Bush conservative. Of course they are anti-Trump. I think the less politically inclined and slightly left leaning youth will be voting Trump. You are going to get young people voting for Trump who would have never voted in this election if he weren't running.

Anonymous Steve September 18, 2016 2:19 PM  

Decius is one of the sharpest, most honest conservative thinkers from either side of the Atlantic I've had the pleasure to read in years.

He doesn't waste a word. Every sentence hits the mark like a nuclear-tipped cruise missile.

The whole interview is great, but I particularly liked his point about standards in education - which I, too, have been alarmed to see slide into glib superficialism during my lifetime - and also this raffish shiv:

In a way, every bow-tied “conservative” kidlet who invokes Buckley today is just saying, “The solutions of 1955—stand athwart history yelling stop!—are all still apt!”

Back to his point about education. Education - particularly of history - is absolutely vital to helping young people become informed adults.

You cannot hope to understand Britain without at least a rudimentary knowledge of the Norman Conquest, the Magna Carta, the Reformation and Civil War and Glorious Revolution and Acts of Union and the Empire and the Industrial Revolution and so on.

I'd venture any American who doesn't know about 1776 and Thomas Paine and 1812 and the US Civil War and Lewis and Clark and Manifest Destiny and the Louisiana Purchase and the Spanish-American War and the New Deal etc. is similarly intellectually crippled without even realising it.

I don't think schools teach history any more. Not really. They might as well be reading off a laminated charge sheet of "isms" aimed at our ancestors. The goal seems to be to churn out graduates who feel vaguely guilty about the past and unjustifiably smug about today's "progress".

Modern "conservatives" are not immune to this miasma of learned ignorance.

Blogger bob k. mando ( the hardest troll here ) September 18, 2016 2:28 PM  

7. Stg58/Animal Mother September 18, 2016 12:08 PM
That is a very important observation.



it's merely a specific application of Chesterton's definition of the word. so, well over a century old. RL Dabney before Chesterton.

http://2m2l2d2d.blogspot.com/2015/12/the-trenchant-rl-dabney-predicts-future.html

and Vox, Red Eagle and i have all been talking for quite some time about how practically NONE of modern "conservatism" is actually based on Constitutional principles or even actual US law.

once you notice that specific Law is written to constrain the Federal or sometimes State governments but then find that it's being arbitrarily applied to private citizens by the judges ...

i know it's been going on here ( VP ) at least since the Secession / 10th Amendment question. don't remember if Vox was on this subject before that or not.

Blogger BCD September 18, 2016 2:31 PM  

@Stg58 Palin's point was rather different. More in line with the unamended Constitution, when only landholder's could vote-she wanted a greater percentage of voters to have a financial stake in government.

Anonymous johnc September 18, 2016 2:38 PM  

When I look at NeverTrumpers who are NeverTrump based on some kind of principle, it frequently comes down to heresy against neoconservative politics, especially foreign and trade policy. It doesn't surprise me to hear Paul Wolfowitz saying he's voting for Hillary. War with Russia and every other nation in the universe is of higher priority to him than any other issue on the table. Same with the Bill Kristols and John Podhoretzs and all the other morons who recklessly marched us into war in Iraq to only make fools of us on the world stage. Pat Buchanan had those guys pegged accurately back in 1991.

So as Battlefrog says, many younger conservatives had their coming of age during the Bush years of compassionate neoconservatism.

However I'll predict that Trump gets a greater percentage of the overall young vote than Romney or McCain got.

Blogger Lovekraft September 18, 2016 3:06 PM  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW1dOdIgmUQ

Great video of Molyneux and Bill Whittle discussing the failed tactics of the Right in countering the Left's rhetoric. An example: Obama pushing Obamacare using the face of an elderly white woman to appeal to masses. Republicans flaccid response meant they appeared pro-death.

Whittle argues we attack the Left's "unearned moral superiority". Example: immigration control proponents need to put a face to their cause by showing bringing LEGAL immigrants to the fore.

Alt-righters can learn to push back with the message, to control it and to make the opponent look weak or dishonest.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 18, 2016 3:09 PM  

Well, I sure do seem to run into a whole lot of NeverTrumpers who are aging Boomers. They don't know squat about the Constitution, a lot have never heard of the Federalist Papers or Locke or Montesquie, but boy oh boy do they know Raycism when they encounter it. They're regular bloodhounds who can smell out Raycism in just about anything.

Who taught them? And who did they "teach"?

Blogger pyrrhus September 18, 2016 3:28 PM  

@32 Problem with pushing LEGAL immigration is that it's just as bad as illegal immigration and full of 3d worlders.....

Anonymous Some Redneck September 18, 2016 3:33 PM  

I read the the Flight 93 article and I thought "Victor Davis Hanson had to have written that." Anyone have any insight into whether I am right or wrong?

Anonymous Wyrd the Adorable Deplorable September 18, 2016 3:46 PM  

Great video of Molyneux and Bill Whittle discussing the failed tactics of the Right in countering the Left's rhetoric.

I normally listening to Whittle but his opening whining about the Alt-Right is tedious. Oh well, he sounds under the weather so maybe that's coloring his outlook.

Anonymous Derp! September 18, 2016 3:47 PM  

normally enjoy listening

Blogger RobertT September 18, 2016 3:52 PM  

they oppose the very purpose of the U.S. Constitution

Finally somebody said it

Blogger RobertT September 18, 2016 3:53 PM  

they oppose the very purpose of the U.S. Constitution

Finally somebody said it

Blogger Doc Rampage September 18, 2016 4:23 PM  

Actually, Vox, he's saying the opposite of what you always say. He's saying that conservativism *is* an ideology, an intellectually sophisticated idology that one can't understand without having read the classics and the early moderns, and that it goes back a lot further than that obscure 1950s writer that you like to pretend defined conservativism. His complaint is that younger conservatives don't understand it because they aren't sophisticated enough.

Of course it's all just rhetoric on both your parts. Younger conservatives understand conservativism just fine and have observed that Donald Trump is not a conservative. Which is a position that you agree with. So you link approvingly to an article saying that they are wrong although you agree with them.

Blogger Publius Decius Mus September 18, 2016 5:15 PM  

Doc Rampage:

No, not really.

First of all, “ideology” is just dumbed-down and formulized philosophy. What I recommend is for kids to study the real thing. This will help them think down the road, and think prudently about what to do in a given salutation. There is no “conservative ideology” that can stand the test of time—more than a few decades at most. Prudent action requires that thought change with the times, which requires a firm basis of learning in the eternal. Then you think through what to do in a given circumstance from there.

In the context of his time, as a political actor, Cicero was a conservative. In the context of their times, the American Founders were the liberals. Both were trying to do their best for their country and their people.

In the context of these times, Trump IS conservative. The “conservatives” are just dumb. To the extent that they are not outright liberal.

OpenID peppermintfrosted September 18, 2016 5:24 PM  

» It does seem that, the younger a (nominal) conservative is, the more likely he is to be against Trump.

Really? I know a lot of old "conservatives" who are going to vote for Johnson or even Hillary and a lot of young "liberals" who are going to vote for Trump.

Blogger bob k. mando ( the hardest troll here ) September 18, 2016 5:27 PM  

40. Publius Decius Mus September 18, 2016 5:15 PM
In the context of these times, "x" IS conservative.


i note that yet another has noticed that it is impossible to even attempt to define Conservative without first defining the culture / time / existing philosophical outlook within which that Conservatism is rooted and based.

:skol:

and i'd also like to note that, assuming this is the real Publius, this is yet another point of contact between the 'ineffectual', 'fringe', 'loony tunes' Vox Popoli blog and the national/international stage.

Rush Limbaugh has been talking about Publius Decius for two weeks now.

i don't know why you don't just hang up your keyboard, Vox. clearly you're just a basement dwelling pajama poster.

Blogger Publius Decius Mus September 18, 2016 5:30 PM  

I go by "Decius." Publius is just the praenomen.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable September 18, 2016 5:40 PM  

Lovekraft wrote:An example: Obama pushing Obamacare using the face of an elderly white woman to appeal to masses. Republicans flaccid response meant they appeared pro-death.

Which is funny, because Obamacare's actual purpose is to re-distribute healthcare resources away from elderly white and oriental women (and to brown and black kids).

Blogger Escoffier September 18, 2016 5:42 PM  

Lovekraft wrote:
Whittle argues we attack the Left's "unearned moral superiority". Example: immigration control proponents need to put a face to their cause by showing bringing LEGAL immigrants to the fore.

Alt-righters can learn to push back with the message, to control it and to make the opponent look weak or dishonest.


Thus proving the dictum that Chthulu always turns left? So those of us concerned about out of control immigration, and more specifically of the legal variety must approve of more legal immigration lest our enemies call us poopyheads?

I'll pass thanks. Personally I think folks are pretty pissed off about all immigration and all we have to do, and keep on doing, is tell the truth and heighten the contradictions of the insane and genocidal Progressive project.

I want to like Bill Whittle but I'm pretty sure he's not tall enough for this ride (to borrow a phrase). Also Trump is doing a masterful job 'putting a face to immigration' by having the relatives of those slain by illegals on his stage.

Blogger Escoffier September 18, 2016 5:44 PM  

peppermintfrosted wrote:» It does seem that, the younger a (nominal) conservative is, the more likely he is to be against Trump.

Really? I know a lot of old "conservatives" who are going to vote for Johnson or even Hillary and a lot of young "liberals" who are going to vote for Trump.


Much like science I have a funny feeling that views, whether political or scientific, are more likely to change via funeral than reasoned discourse.

Anonymous BGKB September 18, 2016 5:54 PM  

what you teach at home will supercede what your public school teaches your children M-F 8 hours per day?"

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/lesbian-i-use-math-class-to-teach-young-kids-about-homosexuality-so-i-can-h

"A lesbian teacher ‘married’ to another woman revealed at a pro-gay teachers’ conference earlier this month how she teaches grade 4-5 students to accept homosexuality through what she called “social justice” math."...

"Gunn then said when she broke the news to the students that all these people were gay, instead of them reacting positively as she had hoped, the students began to shout out “‘gross’ and ‘disgusting’ and ‘these people are sick.’”

At this point Gunn said she realized she would have to come up with a more creative way to get her students to think differently"...

asked Gunn what to do about parents who do not support the LGBTQ movement, mentioning how parents once told her not to involve their child in the pro-homosexual ‘Day of Pink.’

Gunn mocked the parents for failing to realize just how extensive are pro-LGBTQ issues in the classroom and curriculum.

“And it’s not one day a year,” she said. “If you don’t want to send your kid to school on the Day of Pink, that’s OK. But they’re going to get it all the days before. They would have got it in September, and they’re going to get it after. So, one day? We’re not about one day.”

involves stepping towards any type of public duty (military, local law enforcement, fire departments, or even EMS)

Other than to counter equality brainwashing it makes no sense for whites to be volunteer firemen/EMTs, when low IQ didndus sue for placement in paid positions. I don't think there is a black volunteer firemPERSON anywhere in the US, I had a friend that worked at a training center and he asked who was volunteer/ paid for each class he taught.

Anonymous Wyrd the Adorable Deplorable September 18, 2016 6:00 PM  

What I recommend is for kids to study the real thing.

Aristotle in elementary school. I can dig it.

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit September 18, 2016 6:11 PM  

The Old Right was, in my view, too particular in that it tried to base everything on tradition, on kith and kin, blood and soil and so on. It rejected any transcendence (beyond the religious) as "universalist" and liberal. This is my ultimate problem with Kirk, Bradford and the like. They want to say that certain things are good while rejecting any fundamental, permanent ground for the good. The New Right swung way to the other direction and insists on universals and sees all particulars—at least when asserted by Americans and Europeans—as insular and racist. The truth is that both are true in their sphere and both are necessary. Restoring a proper relationship between the universal and the particular is in my view the paramount theoretical challenge for whatever it is that follows conservatism

And there's the problem with so much of the anti-immigration, anti-conservative dialectic on this site. You want to drain the swamp and kill all the mosquitoes, and dismiss all the biologists arguing for the need to understand plasmoids as cucks.

It's also why, despite the flaws in some of their premises, and despite the failures in character of individuals (as if any side in this fight lacked for flaws) the alt right is so badly needed.

There is a swamp. There are mosquitoes. And people everywhere are dying of malaria.

Anonymous Daniel H September 18, 2016 6:36 PM  

@34

Only a cuckified "Conservative", who can't think rationally, would propose mass legal immigration as a nostrum for the left's furious reaction to controlling mass illegal immigration. In fact, mass legal immigration is worse than mass illegal immigration because mass legal immigration engenders a powerful constituency who will only demand more, more, more.

Legal or illegal is not the point, "mass" is the point.

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 18, 2016 6:41 PM  

Aye, good interview.

Anonymous Daniel H September 18, 2016 6:46 PM  

What do they say, quantity has a quality of it's own.

I don't want this for my country.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3795187/Astonishing-photos-reveal-China-s-densely-populated-cities.html

Blogger tz September 18, 2016 6:56 PM  

Meanwhile, at another MN Maul

Blogger JWM September 18, 2016 7:42 PM  

@53 "muslims" rampage in mall. From the video, they are black african negro muslims. Imagine that.

JWM

Anonymous andon September 18, 2016 7:43 PM  

Gunn mocked the parents for failing to realize just how extensive are pro-LGBTQ issues in the classroom and curriculum.

“And it’s not one day a year,” she said. “If you don’t want to send your kid to school on the Day of Pink, that’s OK. But they’re going to get it all the days before. They would have got it in September, and they’re going to get it after. So, one day? We’re not about one day.”


public school = free indoctrination

Anonymous andon September 18, 2016 7:45 PM  

54. Blogger JWM September 18, 2016 7:42 PM
@53 "muslims" rampage in mall. From the video, they are black african negro muslims. Imagine that.


I thought African negroes were supposed to be better than home grown negroes

Anonymous Daniel H September 18, 2016 7:49 PM  

Serves the good people of Minnesota justly. Collectively, they wanted this, I say give it to them hard. Let them feel the pain.

Now, some object to my callous contempt, I say the sooner we can bring matters to a head, the more ground we can recover in a reaction. If we just keep drifting along, cowering, for years or decades we will reach a point where there will be so much less good ground to recover. For now, pain is our ally.

Blogger VD September 18, 2016 8:13 PM  

Actually, Vox, he's saying the opposite of what you always say. He's saying that conservativism *is* an ideology, an intellectually sophisticated idology that one can't understand without having read the classics and the early moderns, and that it goes back a lot further than that obscure 1950s writer that you like to pretend defined conservativism. His complaint is that younger conservatives don't understand it because they aren't sophisticated enough.

No, you did not understand him. He is saying that conservatism is contextual. It is not a coherent ideology.

Of course it's all just rhetoric on both your parts.

You don't understand what rhetoric is either.

Anonymous Avalanche September 18, 2016 8:13 PM  

@31 "It doesn't surprise me to hear Paul Wolfowitz saying he's voting for Hillary. War with Russia and every other nation in the universe is of higher priority to him than any other issue on the table."

Has anyone pointed out to these kids that THEY will be the ones drafted for Hil's war with Russia? Do they REALLY think there will be any deferments?! Canada has has changed their laws -- no running to Canada to avoid the draft. A bunch of (((them))) will run to their own land; but most of this next gen should take a long hard look at "just who" will be learning close order drill!

Anonymous h493964 September 18, 2016 8:17 PM  

80% certain that Publius Decius Mus is John Derbyshire.

I listen to the podcast and can hear him speaking Mus' words.

Blogger Thucydides September 18, 2016 8:27 PM  

Steven Pressfield wrote an amazing description of what a true leader is:

"A king does not abide within his tent while his men bleed and die upon the field. A king does not dine while his men go hungry, nor sleep when they stand at watch upon the wall. A king does not command his men's loyalty through fear nor purchase it with gold; he earns their love by the sweat of his own back and the pains he endures for their sake. That which comprises the harshest burden, a king lifts first and sets down last. A king does not require service of those he leads but provides it to them...A king does not expend his substance to enslave men, but by his conduct and example makes them free."

If we are going to rush the cockpit, then this is who we should be rushing the cockpit for.

Anonymous Smaug September 18, 2016 8:45 PM  

Well, thief! I smell you, I hear your breath, I feel your air. Where are you?

Anonymous Avalanche September 18, 2016 9:02 PM  

@45 "I want to like Bill Whittle but I'm pretty sure he's not tall enough for this ride (to borrow a phrase)."

Yeah I liked some of his stuff early on in my 'listening; to his stuff, but when he said he could take an infant from the Sudan and swap it with an infant from the U.S., and the Sudanese would grow up to be "all-American": intelligent and "just like us," I threw up a little in my mouth and had to quit listening to him...

Anonymous dagwood September 18, 2016 9:21 PM  

Bill Whittle is well-spoken and personable and occasionally delivers a decent insight or a good exchange, but he isn't a deep thinker; he's more concerned with being seen as "conservative --- but nice!, not a meanie!" than with understanding the ramifications of anything serious.

If we could implant Derbyshire's brain into Whittle's looks and mannerisms, we might have a potent weapon.

At the very least, Whittle performs a useful service by playing the role of a seemingly benign gateway drug. He says tiny little doubleplusungood things to people who've never had a single badthink. It's a start, anyway.

To think we have national elections which are decided by people who don't even know who George Orwell is, much less what he was talking about.


Anonymous johnc September 18, 2016 9:24 PM  

@61

That's the difference between a king and a hired hand.

Blogger VD September 18, 2016 9:32 PM  

"I want to like Bill Whittle but I'm pretty sure he's not tall enough for this ride (to borrow a phrase)."

I have nothing against Whittle, but I have never seen a single reason to pay him any more attention than I do to Cher, Nick Clegg, the Guardian op/ed writers, or every Broadway actor, which is to say none at all.

Anonymous Down and Out in... September 18, 2016 9:44 PM  

"never seen a single reason to pay him any more attention than I do to Cher,"

Aww, have a heart. Back in the seventies, Cher was the Queen of Guilty Pleasures (even better than Donna Summer, and that's hard to do). "Gypsies Tramps and Thieves" is some beautiful claptrap. I would think a fella with your particular background would have a soft spot for operatic silliness like "Half Breed." There's no point in being serious all the time.

But Nick Clegg, I'm with ya on that.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable September 18, 2016 10:00 PM  

andon wrote:I thought African negroes were supposed to be better than home grown negroes

Who gave you that bizarre notion? It is the opposite of the truth. Our heritage blacks are the best blacks. I wouldn't trade them for any other blacks anywhere.

Anonymous Edward Abbey September 18, 2016 10:15 PM  

"Our heritage blacks are the best blacks. I wouldn't trade them for any other blacks anywhere."

Who says we have to trade them for other blacks? Can't we trade them for say scrap metal, or dented cans of tomato sauce, or Fonzie memorabilia?

Anonymous Type 5 September 18, 2016 11:06 PM  

@54 "muslims" rampage in mall. From the video, they are black african negro muslims. Imagine that.

#BlackCrimesMatter

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 18, 2016 11:25 PM  

@67

I believe VD is referencing Current Year Cher.

Blogger bob k. mando ( the hardest troll here ) September 19, 2016 12:18 AM  

45. Escoffier September 18, 2016 5:42 PM
I want to like Bill Whittle but I'm pretty sure he's not tall enough for this ride (to borrow a phrase).



hBill is still fully indoctrinated into the Marxist fantasy of the universally equalitarian Proletariat. he's hardly unusual in that regard, a large part of America / Canada / Western Europe are also still enveloped in that miasma.

he's made some slight forays into HBD and his recent explorations into crime rates / BLM shocked him quite a bit. we shall have to see if he continues to follow the data.

one thing hBill is correct about; American Negroes COULD be achieving far more than they are. but between the US Gov destroying their families and schools, they haven't much hope.

he's also more than a bit childish about allowing women to evade the consequences of their actions and choices. but that's just typical White Knighting, which is also endemic to Western culture.



66. VD September 18, 2016 9:32 PM
I have nothing against Whittle, but I have never seen a single reason to pay him any more



because he is both effective at the rhetorical / presentation ( may in fact be overly fixated on it, due to his theater background ) AND, whatever his failings, he is of the Right.

he's certainly much better than Scott Ott and Steve Green.



68. SciVo de Plorable September 18, 2016 10:00 PM
Our heritage blacks are the best blacks.



not attitudinally. American Negroes, while some ~30% white ( and thus more intelligent ) are fully indoctrinated into the culture of Gibmedats. also, almost entirely fatherless.

the problem with the Somalis is that we were stupid enough to import MUSLIM Africans. we'd have far, FAR fewer problems had we restricted immigration to Christian or pagan Africans. ( not that it's not stupid to import large numbers of them as well, just not AS STUPID )

i mean, at least American Negroes just want the 'right' to steal your shit with no consequences.

full blooded, raised in the wool Muslims from a Saudi funded madrassa view cutting your head off as a sure way to get to Paradise and 70 virgins.

that's rather more problematic.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable September 19, 2016 1:36 AM  

bob k. mando ( the hardest troll here ) wrote:not attitudinally. American Negroes, while some ~30% white ( and thus more intelligent ) are fully indoctrinated into the culture of Gibmedats. also, almost entirely fatherless.

the problem with the Somalis is that we were stupid enough to import MUSLIM Africans. we'd have far, FAR fewer problems had we restricted immigration to Christian or pagan Africans. ( not that it's not stupid to import large numbers of them as well, just not AS STUPID )


We should not have any more full stop, sure. But do you not recall the Eddie Murphy routine about the nekkid princess on the zebra? "What have you done for me lately, Eddie?" The indoctrination is irrelevant because it's basically instantaneous, so ours are better because genetically smarter and more culturally like-minded.

(IIRC in the preface of "Influence", Dr. Robert Cialdini said something along the lines that he wouldn't talk about incentive because it's rational -- so it doesn't need explanation.)

Blogger the bandit September 19, 2016 1:54 AM  

I dare say I enjoyed this interview even more than the article which led to it.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable September 19, 2016 2:06 AM  

Just to be clear, I'm just using that comic routine as a communication device. I actually know IRL an African-American gentleman who brought an African woman over to be his wife, and she exploited VAWA by making false allegations against him, which were incentivized since then she got all kinds of free isht, including legal residence. So I'm very biased in favor of our heritage blacks, who are often awesome people, and against actual Africans, who are often horrible people and there is no sense or reason to letting those leachy aliens in to our country in the first place.

Blogger Leo Littlebook in Shenzhen September 19, 2016 2:38 AM  

If you love America, the fastest way to beautify her is to excise her negro genetic introgression.

Why Planned Parenthood but not Planned Nationhood?

Ask about the aftermarket retail plan.

Anonymous Howard J. Harrison September 19, 2016 9:44 AM  

> He's absolutely correct.

Education was indeed once much better -- not in every respect, but in most respects that matter. Born during the late 1960s, I believe this (though I came along too late to get a decent education, myself).

However, I do not blame specific individuals when I note that no one generation is as responsible for America's downfall as the Baby Boomers are. The Silent Generation and Generation X have helped, but the Boomers have unequivocally led the charge.

Even the Boomers who today support Trump remain, as a generation, largely unrepentant.

I do not criticize. Genuine repentance is not something I have observed any generation at large to do. All I mean is that the Boomers' superior education did not save them from becoming, as a generation, Western Civilization's most effective, most persistent foes.

Aging Boomers will reflect from time to time on the perceived (by them) self-centeredness of Gen X and the Millenials. We of Gen X usually do not respond to such reflections because there really isn't anything to say. We tend to feel that the Boomers confuse Gen X's relative lack of abstract idealism with self-centeredness, but there isn't much point in arguing with someone you think is measuring you with the wrong yardstick.

So, I don't know about the whole "Education is ruined" meme. My children (all ages) are getting a considerably better mathematics education in public schools than I ever got, thanks to the salutary influence upon U.S. education of the late John Saxon; but their education obsesses to the degree of self-parody over the imaginary contributions of the black race to Western Civ. We and they have both been falsely taught that sex roles are irrelevant. Neither they nor we can read Latin -- but we and they can both program computers, can't we? Before the Boomers, they couldn't.

To be persuasive, those who peddle narratives regarding the decline of American education are going to have to do better than to cop an attitude. I want some real, sober, fair analysis, if this is the subject we are going to discuss.

Blogger bob k. mando ( the hardest troll here ) September 19, 2016 3:45 PM  

78. Howard J. Harrison September 19, 2016 9:44 AM
To be persuasive, those who peddle narratives regarding the decline of American education are going to have to do better than to cop an attitude.



how about if we cop the statistics which demonstrate that Home Schooled children typically outperform their public schooled brethren by 2-3 grades?

Blogger bosscauser September 20, 2016 9:28 AM  

Conservatives war on one another over "purity"....😉
Making a deal to get 70 or 80 % of what they want anathema. Left has know problem converting their children while they squabble😈

Let's go #Trump and hurry!

Blogger bosscauser September 20, 2016 9:28 AM  

Conservatives war on one another over "purity"....😉
Making a deal to get 70 or 80 % of what they want anathema. Left has know problem converting their children while they squabble😈

Let's go #Trump and hurry!

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