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Saturday, September 17, 2016

Mailvox: infrastructure fragility

From a reader this morning
A pipeline that carried 40%+ of the gasoline for the southeast and east ruptured last week.  No quick fix due to the quarter million gallons of gasoline that spilled and is held in a retention pond.  I've thought for years that this pipe would be a good terrorist target and, though this isn't terrorism, it's going to wreck havoc in the southeast and east.  Nashville is already out of gas and it's going to cascade.  This could end up being a huge election issue given Obama's stopping new pipeline construction during his entire term.

If you Google the story the American media is almost silent, covered by British and RT.  That won't last for long.  [Redacted] lives in Nashville.  I gave her a heads up yesterday so they could get topped off and this morning 80 percent of the stations are closed in her area.
If you're in the southeast, fill up your gas tanks now and lay in some supplies.

UPDATE: The story is now public: Alabama, Tennessee, & Georgia Declare States Of Emergency As Gas Shortages Loom After Pipeline Leak

UPDATE: North Carolina has declared a state of emergency too.

Labels: ,

122 Comments:

Anonymous Steve September 17, 2016 7:50 PM  

Ouch. Isn't this exactly the sort of thing Donald Trump has been banging on about for the past year? Rebuilding American infrastructure?

Anonymous paradox September 17, 2016 7:55 PM  

McCrory declared at state of emergency in NC about 10 am. Everyone in town has been panic pumping gas since 1pm.

Blogger Fred September 17, 2016 7:56 PM  

Thank environmentalists for preventing any new pipelines being built to provide redundancy and facilitate proper maintenance.

Anonymous Faceless September 17, 2016 7:57 PM  

I remember talking to a Longislander who moved to Connecticut right after Sandy. He said power was out for 7 days. When I was surprised how long that took - even in crumbling Detroit, Detroit Edison gets the power back on in 1-2 days max - he said that this was standard in the Northeast; that any outage was 7 days. I guess it's better to spend that money on bathroom signs.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 17, 2016 7:59 PM  

Another problem that should be recognized is there are no refineries in GA, FL, SC, NC, VA, TN, etc. Might be something you want to remedy. The closest refineries to Atlanta are Chevron Pascagoula, Marathon Catlettsburg and Shell Saraland. All hundreds of miles away, though.

Colonial Pipeline would probably love to spend more money on their infrastructure, but I guarantee there is someone or something standing in their way.

Look at what is happening to the Dakota Access Pipeline. Morons think pipelines are so dangerous so they oppose them. The alternative is rail or truck. Both of which are muchore dangerous.

If you think refineries are bad for your state and environment, wait until you need gasoline.
MPAI.

Blogger VD September 17, 2016 8:01 PM  

McCrory declared at state of emergency in NC about 10 am. Everyone in town has been panic pumping gas since 1pm.

Yeah, sorry about that. I should have posted this first thing.

Blogger Lazarus September 17, 2016 8:02 PM  

See? Pipelines are deplorable!

Anonymous Faceless September 17, 2016 8:04 PM  

Maybe Bill Clinton can reprise his remarks from 1992: (Quote is from memory of watching the Rose Garden Strategy fail...)

"The other side is talking about infrastructure. Infrastructure? You mean like roads and bridges and construction work like that? That isn't what we need for the economy of the future."

No, for the economy of the future, we need hoop houses and chicken coops in the front yard.

Blogger S1AL September 17, 2016 8:04 PM  

Just one more reason I'm glad I live in Wyoming.

Blogger ace September 17, 2016 8:10 PM  

Lovely. I live in NC and was going to make a 4 hour drive tomorrow. Currently out of town.

It's a nice lesson, honestly. You don't know where you'll be when the SHTF.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan September 17, 2016 8:11 PM  

A feminine society focused on feelz, whod a thunk

Anonymous Steve September 17, 2016 8:13 PM  

One of the main plot points in Niven and Pournelle's LUCIFER'S HAMMER concerns an atomic energy plant that gets held up by lunatic environmentalists.

That book was written 40 years ago, and ecowankery has only gotten worse since then. Enough of this shit: time to round up people who oppose technological civilisation and deport them to the Arctic Circle.

Use camera drones to record it and sell the rights to Al Gore being turned into polar bear poop.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) September 17, 2016 8:14 PM  

Nashville area has been mostly out of gas since yesterday evening. It's been covered heavily by local news, the American media the reader is referring to must be the national media.

Anonymous Wyrd September 17, 2016 8:15 PM  

Ouch. Isn't this exactly the sort of thing Donald Trump has been banging on about for the past year? Rebuilding American infrastructure?

This sounds nationalistic. Report to Room 101 at the Ministry of Love immediately, comrade.

Anonymous Mr. Deplorabional September 17, 2016 8:19 PM  

S1AL wrote:Just one more reason I'm glad I live in Wyoming.
I recall a pipeline issue not long ago which had an area of the upper Midwest entirely without diesel for an extended period.

The gasoline that's not going to the east coast has to go somewhere else.  Maybe this is why gasoline prices were down 10¢/gallon week over week here between two of the three greatest of the Great Lakes.

In the mean time, I hope that some of the oil tankers unloading at LOOPS can be filled with gasoline and sailed to ports in Georgia and Florida to unload before going back wherever they pick up at.

This doesn't affect me personally at all.  Most of my mileage is electric and I've got enough in the tank to run until spring if I don't want to go out of town.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY September 17, 2016 8:22 PM  

Gas prices have too cheap lately for ((( some ))).
Something had to be done about that, dammit.

Blogger Chris Mallory September 17, 2016 8:23 PM  

Faceless wrote:I remember talking to a Longislander who moved to Connecticut right after Sandy. He said power was out for 7 days. When I was surprised how long that took - even in crumbling Detroit, Detroit Edison gets the power back on in 1-2 days max - he said that this was standard in the Northeast; that any outage was 7 days. I guess it's better to spend that money on bathroom signs.


During the 2009 ice storm in Western Kentucky, I was without power for 21 days.

Anonymous Dave September 17, 2016 8:24 PM  

Colonial had to temporarily halt repair work due to vapors at the site of the leak but told the head of Alabama’s Emergency Management Agency on Friday it hoped to get the pipeline fully restarted by Thursday. http://www.thegazette.com/subject/news/nation-and-world/gas-prices-keep-rising-on-east-coast-as-colonial-resumes-work-on-leaking-pipeline-20160917

Fully restarted by Thursday. 250,000 gallons sounds like a lot but the damaged pipeline can carry 1.2 million barrels of gasoline per day from Houston to Greensboro, North Carolina.

1.2 million barrels or more than 40 million gallons per day.

Blogger Orville September 17, 2016 8:27 PM  

Yep, infrastructure is a bitch. That line is well away from the New Madrid fault, but there are plenty oil, gas and natgas lines that do run through that fault zone. If it pops in the winter time the northeast will freeze to death.

Blogger Salt September 17, 2016 8:29 PM  

paradox wrote:McCrory declared at state of emergency in NC about 10 am. Everyone in town has been panic pumping gas since 1pm.

Coastal NC. Just filled up not 10 minutes ago. Guy at the station said he's not heard anything about it. No news through corporate that there might be any shortage.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY September 17, 2016 8:31 PM  

Colonial sold a lot of their pipelines and Tank farms on Lootsyanistan. Exxon tore down all of the Maryland Tank farm outside Baton Rouge a few years back. If Clay is reading this, I know he would have some valuable input on this the ilk could use.

Anonymous Dave September 17, 2016 8:32 PM  

ace wrote:Lovely. I live in NC and was going to make a 4 hour drive tomorrow. Currently out of town.

It's a nice lesson, honestly. You don't know where you'll be when the SHTF.



I can arrive in most parts of NC in about 10 hours with a couple hundred gallons of gasoline. How's $50 a gallon sound? minimum 30 gallons

Blogger Dire Badger September 17, 2016 8:42 PM  

September surprise

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY September 17, 2016 8:44 PM  

"The alternative is rail or truck."
Well, we all know who is stopping the Keystone pipeline ( HNIC )
and who wants it to not happen ( Warren Buffet ).
Does Berkshire Hathaway have a tanker truck company in their portfolio ? I bet they do.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 17, 2016 8:46 PM  

Warren Buffett owns BNSF. I wrote a presentation for their board to pitch our equipment which would eliminate the dangerous tank cars full of volatile shale oil, but it went nowhere.

OpenID leukosfash September 17, 2016 8:56 PM  

Nothing on Drudge yet.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY September 17, 2016 8:58 PM  

"During the 2009 ice storm in Western Kentucky, I was without power for 21 days."
Sonovabitch. I was without juice from the power company for 5 days at most during Gustav, ( had a generator, but could not run central A/'c on it. Man, it was hot ! ) and Isaac ( bagged Military surplus generator before that happened, was able to run everything on that big hoss, bestest mun ever spent ).

Blogger Were-Puppy September 17, 2016 9:04 PM  

Huntsville AL I checked a couple places and they are still good to go. I wonder if this is going to affect southern alabama and georgia, or the entire states?

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY September 17, 2016 9:10 PM  

Stg 58,
That Buffet's bunch would not hear your proposal does not surprise me at all. Common sense just ain't all that common, you know. Hope you and yours are doing well, my fellow hardshell Baptist brother.

Blogger ace September 17, 2016 9:11 PM  

Dave wrote:ace wrote:Lovely. I live in NC and was going to make a 4 hour drive tomorrow. Currently out of town.

It's a nice lesson, honestly. You don't know where you'll be when the SHTF.


I can arrive in most parts of NC in about 10 hours with a couple hundred gallons of gasoline. How's $50 a gallon sound? minimum 30 gallons



Maybe next time. I was able to top off at the nearest station. The attendant knew about the crisis and they'd already run dry on premium. People panic buying since the morning. They'll probably run out of gas before midnight, but the girl was cagey about how close they were.

Blogger Harold September 17, 2016 9:11 PM  

In the mean time, I hope that some of the oil tankers unloading at LOOPS can be filled with gasoline and sailed to ports in Georgia and Florida to unload before going back wherever they pick up at.

Gasoline tankers are built different then regular tankers. Gasoline is a lot more volatile. Then, you need to find one flagged in the U.S. since it's intracoastal trade. One that isn't already chartered, or that can be diverted. Good luck.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 17, 2016 9:17 PM  

Harold,

Generally true. It depends on the tanker. Shale oil and liquids are as volatile as gasolone. The same vapor pressure analysis, Reid Vapor Pressure (RVP), ASTM D323, is done on gasoline and shale liquids, at the same range, 4-24 psig.

If the tanker is built to hold shale oil, it will also safely transport gasoline.

Anonymous andon September 17, 2016 9:20 PM  

25. Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 17, 2016 8:46 PM

Warren Buffett owns BNSF.


hmm, I wonder if that's why the pipeline never gets built.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY September 17, 2016 9:21 PM  

Huntsville AL I checked a couple places and they are still good to go. I wonder if this is going to affect southern alabama and georgia, or the entire states?
I'm no expert on this, but the refineries in Baton Rouge,( Exxon/Mobil ) Convent,and Norco, LA. (Motiva) Pascagoula, MS. ( Chevron ) as well as several minors will take care of you.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 17, 2016 9:24 PM  

They all make gasoline except for ExxonMobil. They merely make blend stocks and sell those as is.

Gasoline is all made and dumped into a common carrier pipeline and terminal system such as Colonial Pipeline's. Ethanol and all proprietary additives ate blended at the terminal where the truck loads up with fuel.

The problem is that there is no refinery within 500 miles of Atlanta.

Blogger Paul, Dammit! September 17, 2016 9:24 PM  

My employer bought Colonial Oil's entire boat and barge fleet two years ago. Oil interests are rarely in more than one aspect of the stream now, for liability purposes. Midstream companies like Colonial are constantly working to grow their assets- engineering and permitting for approved pipeline expansion is actually growing well, but nowhere near the rate to satisfy both replacement of aging infrastructure and expansion.

Transport costs are easy enough to calculate for oil. Roughly, over-the-road is the most expensive and dangerous. Rail is 90% cheaper, and safer. By water is 90% cheaper than rail, and safer. Pipeline is 90% cheaper, although about on par with waterborne safety. I deal in waterborne transport. Our total costs add about 1.5c/barrel to the price to the end user for gas and diesel.
As far as ship transport, the process of changing from black oil to clean oil deliveries isn't always feasible. Small ships (under 40,000 tons, which is about the limit for ship size in many ports in the US) are often made to be able to switch from one to the other using self-cleaning apparatus in about 2 days, but ships must be built with this capability, which crude ships often don't have.
Another complication is storage. The US only carries a couple of days' supply of gasoline in most regions. Getting permits to build tanks, and then finding a tenant to rent them (most fuel wholesalers don't own any of the infrastructure) is an uphill battle. Throughput and demurrage becomes an issue quickly which is why gasoline doesn't sit long. It isn't the quantities, it's the distribution.

Ultimately, it's messes like this that present the best opportunity to fix infrastructure shortcomings, but other than putting names to faces, nothing generally happens.

Blogger ace September 17, 2016 9:26 PM  

Greensboro, my hometown, is home to the largest tank farm for this pipeline. I imagine that means our supply is somewhat more secure.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 17, 2016 9:27 PM  

Paul,

Colonial Pipeline and Colonial Oil are probably two different companies. ColPipe wouldn't be considered a midstream company by anyone.

You are right about everything else. Construction has slowed dramatically because of the price of oil. Thank the Saudis for that. I hope they all burn in hell.

Anonymous Dave September 17, 2016 9:28 PM  

I wrote a presentation for their board to pitch our equipment

Berkshire's board or BSNF's board? in any event what would they gain by removing this source of revenue for the railroad? (hundreds and hundreds of tanker cars hauling shale oil daily)

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 17, 2016 9:31 PM  

Dave, BNSF's board. Our equipment doesn't take traffic from rail cars. It is process analytical equipment that notifies the rail yard in real time of volatile or hazardous crude or liquids is being loaded into the rail car.

Anonymous Posting Under a Different Name September 17, 2016 9:35 PM  

Woah. I just checked Huntsville, Alabama, too. Weird to think that three people on this thread were checking out the same city.

But as far as I could tell, there were no shortages or price-increases...yet.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY September 17, 2016 9:37 PM  

"I hope they all burn in hell."
You ain't the the Lone Ranger in these feelz.

Anonymous andon September 17, 2016 9:38 PM  

@ #36 Paul Dammit! -

how much extra per gallon of gas are people paying for Buffet to ship by rail? how much do you think he makes on shipping that oil by railcar per year?

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY September 17, 2016 9:45 PM  

andon, you shouldn't be hatin' on the a-hole of Omahaha.
A guy has to earn a crust, dontcha know. Your peasant opine does not count.

Blogger paradox September 17, 2016 9:52 PM  

@20 Salt

Western NC... The panic pumpers have emptied regular gas at the stations in my town. Local news station.

Anonymous Dave September 17, 2016 9:52 PM  

Buffet is probably looking to strip what he can from BNSF and get rid of it...East coast refineries have switched back to importing crude:

OFF THE RAILS

Crashing oil prices and the end in December of a four-decade U.S. crude export ban have whipsawed the economics for East Coast refiners, pushing them back to imported crude just a few years after foreswearing it in favor of domestic shale.

This has hammered the oil-by-rail industry. Customers stuck with deliveries of rail cars they no longer need have chosen to put them in storage instead of in service.


http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20160125_Reuters_Report_tagreuterscom2016newsmlKCN0V31CX_Once_in_high_demand__North_Dakota_oil_by_rail_shunned_on_East_Coast.html

Anonymous andon September 17, 2016 9:54 PM  

eh, I prob shouldn't worry about it anyway

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY September 17, 2016 9:59 PM  

Just because you live on the west coat don't mean it wont affect you, andon. How much are you paying for a gallon of regular right now ?

Blogger Harold September 17, 2016 10:04 PM  

https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43653.pdf An analysis of moving oil throughout the United States done in 2014. Gives an idea of the scale of oil movement.

Anonymous NateM September 17, 2016 10:10 PM  

@17 During the 2009 ice storm in Western Kentucky, I was without power for 21 days.


well they figured y'all in those parts don't really need it anyways

Blogger joek September 17, 2016 10:13 PM  

Hunt Refining is located in Tuscaloosa. Not sure if they still produce gasoline.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 17, 2016 10:14 PM  

Joek,

I forgot about them, but they are a really small refinery. 36,000 bpd.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 17, 2016 10:19 PM  

If they produce gasoline it would likely be no more than 12,000 bpd.

Anonymous Rolf September 17, 2016 10:21 PM  

It's nothing. I'm sure it won't affect anyone. It's just a tiny blip, and all we have to do is get the ignorant rednecks to stop driving their ATVs and boats and making all the other optional trips, and well be fine. Besides, there are more important things to worry about.

Wait, what? You mean if everyone stays home and doesn't use their boats, ATV, and optional trips, then the 1/3 of the service and almost all of the hospitality industry crashes and burns? Oh, bummer for them. They don't really matter anyway, what with their deplorable attitudes.

Anonymous Rolf September 17, 2016 10:23 PM  

@48 Right now, in my area, it's averaging about $2.75 a gallon for both regular and diesel. East of Seattle a little ways.

Anonymous Lab Guy September 17, 2016 10:24 PM  

I'm sorry for the South East with more conservative peopple but I'm overjoyed that libtards will have to financially suffer and be inconvenienced. I loved it when libtards in Sandy were rummaging dumpsters for food only after a couple days. Most people are too stupid to even keep a flashlight around the house.

Blogger joek September 17, 2016 10:27 PM  

Yeah. It's a pretty small operation, even with the expansion they did a few years back. I've been told that there hasn't been a new refinery built in the US since the 1970s. Could be wrong though.

Anonymous Cryptoid September 17, 2016 10:28 PM  

Travelled from Cookeville Tn to s. Mid TN just north of Huntsville AL. Filled up for 2.24 for reg. That was average price I saw all the way south. No lines at stations. One seemed espec. busy. Gas had been running around 1.89 past week or two.

Deplorably yours,
Cryptoid

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 17, 2016 10:28 PM  

Joek,

You're right, but that has more to do with economics than nefarious planning.

Anonymous Red September 17, 2016 10:47 PM  

We live 15 minutes from Helena, the site of the break. Big coverage here, and prices spiked 10 cents overnight.

As to BNSF, during the shale oil boom, I have contacts in the Rail industry, and since Buffet doesn't have pipeline companies in his portfolio, he and Gates, who has 13% of the Canadian National, are going to block pipeline for rail. 29k gallons each tanker, getting good money for each move, and they are rated to last up to 40 years. Mo money mo money mo money.

Anonymous andon September 17, 2016 10:50 PM  

@ #48 - John

I usually buy midgrade and its been running about $2.50 + or - a quarter for quite a while now. I think there is extra cost for California because of special additives or something.

Blogger Ish Mael September 17, 2016 10:50 PM  

South side Atlanta gas is mostly gone. Some stations have Premium. Many stations closed early or shut off pumps

Blogger joek September 17, 2016 10:50 PM  

That's good to know. I figured it was some kind of EPA/ global warming thing.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 17, 2016 10:56 PM  

Joek,

It's economics. Crude was so expensive for so long it wasn't economical to run as many refineries as we had. The US has about 176 refineries of various sizes and configurations. We had more, and believe me if a refinery makes money no one is going to shut it down.

Blogger Were-Puppy September 17, 2016 10:56 PM  

@62 Ish Mael
South side Atlanta gas is mostly gone. Some stations have Premium. Many stations closed early or shut off pumps
---

I bet Atlanta gets clobbered by this. There are so many people from all the surrounding states going through there all the time. Gazillion truckers. yeah, they will run out by Monday I bet.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 17, 2016 10:58 PM  

Jet fuel will be fine, unless they run jet in the same pipeline as this one that ruptured.

Atlanta will come to a halt otherwise, though.

Anonymous Avalanche September 17, 2016 11:05 PM  

Thanks Vox -- I rarely hear or see the news! Saw this blog entry at 9 p.m.!

Hour N. of Atlanta; ran out to Wallie World and bought three 2-gal gas cans (2-gals were all they had left -- the shelf was looking a bit bare). Went to Kroger (supermarket) (closest) gas station, filled car and all three cans. They were already out of the med and high grade.

Also emailed my neighbors and 'tribe mates' to get their cars filled too.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY September 17, 2016 11:07 PM  

Hell, andon I would have thought that it would be much higher than that. You are doing better than I thought. Regular is around 1.84 a gallon in Baton Rouge, about 1.99 in SW MS.

Blogger Jack Ward September 17, 2016 11:14 PM  

@55 Rolf
1.95 per here in Blount county, AL. Price had jumped quite steeply these last few weeks from lows of 1.70 or better. Did top up vehicles and backups this pm just in case.
First I heard of this was here...another very good reason to hit the Vox blog multiple times daily. Not that I need to preach to the Ilk. They know.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY September 17, 2016 11:22 PM  

64. Stg58
With so few refineries, which one doesn't make money these days ?
I forgot to add that the Marathon refinery in Garyville,LA. just underwent a massive expansion .

Anonymous andon September 17, 2016 11:29 PM  

there was a talk radio host maybe 5 years ago claiming that there hadn't been a refinery built in the U.S. since the late 1970's because of the environmentalists. not sure if its true though.

OpenID turk187 September 17, 2016 11:33 PM  

If Trump handles this right it could be a huge factor in the election.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY September 17, 2016 11:36 PM  

That is the biggest problem, andon. We need refining capacity.
Refinery construction /maintenance creates lots of jobs, I would know, I am a retired Boilermaker. Frack,frack, and more frack.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 17, 2016 11:40 PM  

John,

The ones that weren't making money were closed. Before crude prices catered, the only way refineries were making money was exploiting slippage in crack spreads. The margins are much better now, and crude prices are driven slightly by gasoline usage.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY September 17, 2016 11:44 PM  

72. turk187 September 17, 2016 11:33 PM
"If Trump handles this right it could be a huge factor in the election."
You got that right, good sir.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY September 17, 2016 11:48 PM  

74. Stg58/Animal Mother
I hear ya loud and clear, sir.
I hope that other people get it as well.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable September 17, 2016 11:48 PM  

Red wrote:As to BNSF, during the shale oil boom, I have contacts in the Rail industry, and since Buffet doesn't have pipeline companies in his portfolio, he and Gates, who has 13% of the Canadian National, are going to block pipeline for rail. 29k gallons each tanker, getting good money for each move, and they are rated to last up to 40 years. Mo money mo money mo money.

This is just a quibble, but I that that Buffett had natural gas pipelines through MidAmerican. So he would be on both sides of the issue, depending on the product.

Blogger Harold September 17, 2016 11:49 PM  

Hour N. of Atlanta; ran out to Wallie World and bought three 2-gal gas cans (2-gals were all they had left -- the shelf was looking a bit bare). Went to Kroger (supermarket) (closest) gas station, filled car and all three cans. They were already out of the med and high grade.

They were out of high grade. Medium isn't stored- it's blended at the pump.

Anonymous andon September 17, 2016 11:56 PM  

73. Anonymous jOHN MOSBY September 17, 2016 11:36 PM
That is the biggest problem, andon. We need refining capacity.
Refinery construction /maintenance creates lots of jobs, I would know, I am a retired Boilermaker.


sounds like a cool job.

Blogger Matamoros September 17, 2016 11:56 PM  

What should be done is for Obama to release the strategic reserve into the retail market to tide it over until the pipeline can be repaired.

Truly, one wonders if this is moslem terrorism.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 17, 2016 11:58 PM  

The Strategic Reserve is crude. Not fuel. The Reserve is almost obsolete now.

Blogger GFR September 18, 2016 12:01 AM  

@61
.
91 octane is $3.15 a gallon in California. Our legislature requires a different blend of gasoline which means our entire supply is refined here - and we have only fourteen refineries (something like that), every time one goes down the price of gas goes up immediately. If two go down there is a big fight between the Governor and environmentalists over whether we should bring in gas from other states.
.
We should be unnaffected by this pipeline thing however. Nobody from Atlanta is going to be gassing up in LA.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY September 18, 2016 12:02 AM  

"sounds like a cool job."
You work hard, but the pay is good if you know your stuff.

Blogger RC September 18, 2016 12:05 AM  

Our energy infrastructure is overly and needlessly concentrated and completely exposed. Terrorists could deal widespread death and major economic blows and for no good reason. In my businesses I start actively diversifying if any single client is more than about 5% of my revenue and the entire southeast is dependent upon a single pipeline for 40% of their gasoline supply! That's insane. To further exacerbate the risk, the USG publishes a map of the entire U.S. pipeline infrastructure (minus gathering pipes) on a publicly available web page. It's well beyond insanity.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY September 18, 2016 12:06 AM  

Nobody from Atlanta is going to be gassing up in LA.
You fellas need to gas the bastards in Sacto, you think ?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 18, 2016 12:09 AM  

GFR,

There are 10 refineries in California.

ExxonMobil Torrance
Phillips 66 LA Refinery
Valero Wilmington
Tesoro LA
Chevron El Segundo

SF Area:
Shell Martinez
Valero Benicia
Phillips 66 Rodeo
Chevron Richmond
Tesoro Golden Eagle

That's it.

Anonymous andon September 18, 2016 12:14 AM  

@ #82 - ok I buy at Arco or AMPM usually and its midgrade and im not in a large city, just outside of one. I only need to buy about once every 30 days or so and last time was around $2.65 iirc. Shell is the most expensive where im at.

agree with your 2nd sentence there btw. that's about what I've heard too.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY September 18, 2016 12:18 AM  

10 refineries in Cal.
Hell, they got more than that in Lootsyanistan.
Who burns more fuel ?
EH ?????

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY September 18, 2016 12:21 AM  

"Shell is the most expensive where im at"
Hell, where I'm at at Shell is the cheapest. Go figger,huh ?

Blogger GFR September 18, 2016 12:30 AM  

@88
.
They are old too. I pass through the plant in Hercules every day on I-80, and there's always something going wrong with it..
.
I think there are better places to locate refineries than immediately adjacent to residential areas but the permitting process to build a new one would be a nightmare..

Anonymous andon September 18, 2016 12:31 AM  

do you still have Gulf or Texaco down there John?

we don't have those any more and I think very few Exxons left here too. I see that lousy Venezuelan one but they wont get a nickel from me.

Blogger tz September 18, 2016 12:33 AM  

@9 - Quite. Close to production and refineries, and have gone diesel.

The Preppers won't be hurting much.

Where is the gasoline going? Into holding ponds apparently. Sending it elsewhere would just depress the price and it wouldn't be needed.

Now if we can only strangle the blue areas on election day...

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY September 18, 2016 12:41 AM  

Texaco, yes. Chevron owns them.
Gulf, no.
Fuk Exxon.
I haven't bought their gas since the early 70's when I worked at a Esso station.

Blogger GFR September 18, 2016 12:50 AM  

@88
.
They are old too. I pass through the plant in Hercules every day on I-80, and there's always something going wrong with it..
.
I think there are better places to locate refineries than immediately adjacent to residential areas but the permitting process to build a new one would be a nightmare..

Blogger GFR September 18, 2016 12:50 AM  

@61
.
91 octane is $3.15 a gallon in California. Our legislature requires a different blend of gasoline which means our entire supply is refined here - and we have only fourteen refineries (something like that), every time one goes down the price of gas goes up immediately. If two go down there is a big fight between the Governor and environmentalists over whether we should bring in gas from other states.
.
We should be unnaffected by this pipeline thing however. Nobody from Atlanta is going to be gassing up in LA.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY September 18, 2016 12:54 AM  

They are old too.
I hear ya. but some have modernized big time. (Marathon, Garyville,LA. ,) and others are following suit.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 18, 2016 12:58 AM  

All refineries are modernized.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY September 18, 2016 1:05 AM  

97. Stg58/Animal Mother
Not all. The Rockefellers oil enterprise is going into it kickin' and screamin '.

Anonymous JamesD September 18, 2016 1:07 AM  

57 year old pipeline built to last 40. Can't build replacement pipelines due to the enviro regs. Expect to see more of this. 50+ year old crude pipeline in California. 50+ year old well blow out on nat gas storage, also in California.

Anonymous Leonidas September 18, 2016 1:33 AM  

Thanks to everyone who checked out Huntsville for me!

Anonymous Laz September 18, 2016 2:42 AM  

@jOHN MOSBY: "Frack,frack, and more frack."

Just as long as it isn't in your neighborhood, right? I'm all for it, but no urban or semi-urban fracking. My dad had $12K in foundation and plumbing repair after a fracking-quake. I bet that monthly check from the gas company doesn't look so hot now, but I'm not going to ask him. He was mad enough.

Blogger bob k. mando ( the hardest troll here ) September 18, 2016 2:53 AM  

55. Rolf September 17, 2016 10:23 PM
@48 Right now, in my area, it's averaging about $2.75 a gallon for both regular and diesel. East of Seattle a little ways.




Ellensburg is where fuel is cheap in Washington state. WHY Ellensburg is cheap, i have no idea, but they're usually 30c / gal less than Spokane or Seattle.

that makes a big difference when you're throwing +100 gallons in.


54. Rolf September 17, 2016 10:21 PM
They don't really matter anyway, what with their deplorable attitudes.



buncha Confederate flag flyin crackas is all they is.



61. andon September 17, 2016 10:50 PM
I think there is extra cost for California because of special additives or something.



and state fuel tax in the Peoples Republic.


81. Stg58/Animal Mother September 17, 2016 11:58 PM
The Strategic Reserve is crude. Not fuel. The Reserve is almost obsolete now.



style over substance + doing the most strategically harmful move for US interests has been Obama's modus since his immaculation.

why would he NOT release from the Strategic Reserve?

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable September 18, 2016 5:35 AM  

bob k. mando ( the hardest troll here ) wrote:style over substance + doing the most strategically harmful move for US interests has been Obama's modus since his immaculation.

Mode and modus. (Violent agreement.)

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 18, 2016 7:42 AM  

Send in our best Title 9 engineers.

Hey, where'd they all go?

Anonymous RedJack September 18, 2016 8:16 AM  

I used to play on that side of the street. Two men with a set of public domain prints and some simple tools could shut down any major city rather quickly. The fact that no one has is either luck or concern for blow back.

That is one of the reasons I am not so found of the pipeline being proposed through the Midwest (though I do wonder who paid the Indian tribes to protest). To large of a weak link

Anonymous Athor Pel September 18, 2016 8:56 AM  

"
60. Red September 17, 2016 10:47 PM
We live 15 minutes from Helena, the site of the break. Big coverage here, and prices spiked 10 cents overnight.

As to BNSF, during the shale oil boom, I have contacts in the Rail industry, and since Buffet doesn't have pipeline companies in his portfolio, he and Gates, who has 13% of the Canadian National, are going to block pipeline for rail. 29k gallons each tanker, getting good money for each move, and they are rated to last up to 40 years. Mo money mo money mo money.
"


I work for an oil company that Berkshire Hathaway has taken a great interest in recently, to the tune of about 11% of our shares purchased so far. My company also holds a stake in the Dakota Access pipeline.

Maybe Warren doesn't want more Canadian crude in the US market. But he is definitely acquiring domestic transportation, refining and retail.

Anonymous Mr. Deplorabional September 18, 2016 9:41 AM  

Harold wrote:you need to find one flagged in the U.S. since it's intracoastal trade.
Emergency rules.

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:Construction has slowed dramatically because of the price of oil. Thank the Saudis for that.
Oil is dramatically cheaper than the 2008 peak.  The Saudis are largely responsible for this; they're pumping all-out despite low prices.  Why are you angry at them?

In energy-intensive uses, the heavy lifting is done more by electricity than anything else.  Uranium is vastly cheaper than anything save rain water (hydro).  Korea and China are making nuclear electricity cheaper than most others; maybe more than ANY others.

@71 Small refineries are uneconomic.  Oilcos have been merging and closing the smaller ones for many years now.  They expand the big ones to compensate, and add capacity so that e.g. they can use cheap NA natural gas to produce ultra-low sulfur diesel for re-export.

@73 What we need is battery capacity.  Plug-in hybrids cut fuel consumption in half without hardly trying.  Electricity is produced from domestic resources and gives far greater energy security.

@80 There is no reserve of finished gasoline.  It can't be stored for long, it goes bad.

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 18, 2016 10:00 AM  

If oil prices follow supply and demand, why can't you buy it with rubles or yuan?

Blogger Garrett Patterson September 18, 2016 10:26 AM  

More business for CSX / NS, more delays at crossings.
Adjust your schedules accordingly.

Blogger Bard September 18, 2016 10:48 AM  

Sounds like a great opportunity to get all those "shovel ready" untrained unskilled workers going

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY September 18, 2016 6:33 PM  

101. Laz
They were and are fracking all around my place in SW MS.
Bothers me not in the least. And yeah, I like those royalty checks. They could set a rig up on my property tomorrow.
Does that answer your NIMBY question ?

Blogger Unknown September 18, 2016 7:11 PM  

Not news. The leak was discovered back on Sept 9. It's an underground pipe, so it could be a while before they can repair it. Could be a major rupture or a minor leak that's been going for weeks. It's also a 50-yo pipe, and lots of things can happen underground to compromise the integrity of a pipe in that time. Not really a surprise that something did. Hard to judge until the digging crews get down there to see. That's not as easy as it sounds as there'll no doubt be toxic benzene and other fumes to deal with. Doesn't look as bombastic as the scare-mongers, hoarders, conspiracy theorists and fatalists are making it out to be. Plenty of overtime available if you're a tanker driver, which is good for men and good for America. So what's your gripe?

Blogger me September 18, 2016 7:37 PM  

If you have an electric car or take public transportation, you are not affected by this. Only those in their big SUV's, trucks and expensive vehicles are panicking.

Blogger EscapeVelocity September 18, 2016 8:51 PM  

Ive been filling up every tank I have. I also have 60 gallons in the boat which can be siphoned.

Anonymous Mr. Deplorabional September 19, 2016 12:54 AM  

me wrote:If you have an electric car or take public transportation, you are not affected by this.
That's the beauty of my setup.  If the gas goes out, I can run on electricity.  If the electricity goes out, I can run car and generator on gas.  I have true energy diversity.

Anonymous Athor Pel September 19, 2016 2:04 AM  

Fourth effort at posting this. I'm usually not this bloody minded about overcoming blogspot's bugs but this is pissing me off.
__________

~250,000 gallons of gasoline in the open air. Makes me extremely nervous just thinking about it.

A leak of this magnitude is a bad bad thing for a pipeline operator. DoT/PHMSA is going to be crawling all over them, as is every state regulatory agency that has this line going through their state.

I'm surprised the leak wasn't detected sooner. There are pressure gauges all along any petroleum line. Any leak should make the nearest pressure gauges display a pressure loss. Severe enough pressure losses should automatically shut the line down.

Then I found out the diameter of the line. It's 40 inches. For a crude line that is quite large. For a product line, that's huge, enormous. That size of line means for a leak to be detectable it must be commensurately larger than it would be for a smaller line.

I also found out the leak history of the system. It isn't good. It's had larger spills than this one and Colonial was fined $34 million by the EPA in 2003. Which makes me wonder how many fines they've gotten from DoT/PHMSA that haven't been publicized.

This is a pretty old line. Put in the ground in 1962. From the operation timeline I found at this link, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonial_Pipeline, they started doing tool runs in 1985. I'm guessing they only did hydrotests before that, if they did any integrity testing at all.

The line was fully operational in 1964, so it was operating for a little more than 20 years before they put a pig in it. That's a long damn time in pipeline operation terms. Maybe they did some pipe replacement in that 20 years, maybe they didn't.

They better be on their way to replacing the whole system or it won't be worth running before long.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable September 19, 2016 2:48 AM  

Mr. Deplorabional wrote:me wrote:If you have an electric car or take public transportation, you are not affected by this.

That's the beauty of my setup.  If the gas goes out, I can run on electricity.  If the electricity goes out, I can run car and generator on gas.  I have true energy diversity.


That's great, but that isn't what "me" said. And whether or not our dread host is correct about the timeline, anything that can't go on forever won't. So reliance on public transportation will be stupid, at least once we get circa 2033, and wisdom would leave some cushion.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable September 19, 2016 2:56 AM  

Aeoli Pera wrote:If oil prices follow supply and demand, why can't you buy it with rubles or yuan?

Why was Iraq invaded immediately after Afghanistan, when all it threatened to do was make an oil bourse denominated in gold dinar?

Blogger Ish Mael September 19, 2016 10:09 AM  

@117 One reason is that Iraq oil had to be placed back into full production to off set the increasing China demand for oil. Full production could not happen with Saddam and sanctions in place.
The Neocons planned to install an Hashemite governance.(Jordan and Iraq were briefly ruled by Hashemite King brothers in the 1950s)Iran saw this as a threat and ignited a civil war using the Shite majority.

Anonymous Mr. Deplorabional September 19, 2016 10:14 AM  

SciVo de Plorable wrote:reliance on public transportation will be stupid, at least once we get circa 2033
Reliance on public transport is already foolish.  It's an invitation to be slashed up by vibrants, if not killed outright.

A mere 3 50 GWh/yr Gigafactories could produce enough batteries to give a 10 kWh pack to every new LDV sold in the USA.  Plugged in every night, that's enough to replace about half of all gasoline consumption with electricity.  This isn't just possible, it's not even difficult.

Anonymous SumDood September 19, 2016 3:12 PM  

"A mere 3 50 GWh/yr Gigafactories could produce enough batteries to give a 10 kWh pack to every new LDV sold in the USA. Plugged in every night, that's enough to replace about half of all gasoline consumption with electricity. This isn't just possible, it's not even difficult."

Take the cars off the gasoline grid, and put them on the already overtaxed power grid? Sounds like a different kind of fragile.

And batteries are expensive and energy-intensive to make. And they wear out pretty fast (in infrastructural terms). Ask any Toyota Priapus owner about battery replacements.

Not saying its a dumb concept. But there are a lot of variables that aren't addressed in your statement.

Anonymous Mr. Deplorabional September 19, 2016 8:35 PM  

SumDood wrote:Take the cars off the gasoline grid, and put them on the already overtaxed power grid?
The grid as a whole is under-utilized.  Long-distance connections are being overloaded by ill-advised additions of far-away "renewables", and peak demand hours have always been an issue, but a lot of generating capacity is simply shut down in the wee hours of the morning.  About 70% of US transportation could go electric without adding a single generating plant, so long as it only charged at night.

Sounds like a different kind of fragile.
Plug-in hybrids are resilient.  Gasoline shortages stop being an issue except for longer trips, and if the automakers were a little more broad-minded they could operate as emergency generators during grid outages.  One car could run the essential loads for an entire block.  How much more durable would society be if neither storms nor sabotage could knock it down easily?

Maybe we should be looking at integrating plug-in cars into our civil defense programs.

batteries are expensive and energy-intensive to make. And they wear out pretty fast (in infrastructural terms).
That's why they're part of the vehicle.  Vehicles don't last very long and one expects to do big-ticket maintenance when they get to high mileage.

Ask any Toyota Priapus owner about battery replacements.
I haven't looked in years, but the last time I checked eBay there were a number of Prius batteries for sale.  These had to be from wrecks.  The battery is covered as long as the powertrain warranty is in effect, and it appears that scrappage from other causes outpaces battery failures or they would all be snapped up as replacements.

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