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Friday, September 16, 2016

Mike Cernovich was right

As Mike Cernovich has observed, he mainstream media is no longer an effective vehicle to sell books:
When New York Times chief Mark Thompson published his latest book, ‘Enough Said: What’s Gone Wrong With the Language of Politics?’ this month, there must have been a part of him that worried about its negative title.

If he did have concerns, he wasn’t alone.

New figures obtained by Heat Street show that sales of this collection of his thoughts on the history of the public discourse have got off to a truly dreadful start.

In the UK, the book went on sale on September 1. Between then and September 10 it sold 482 copies. In the US, it went on sale on September 6. Over the next five days it sold a mere 59 copies.

By September 10 the book had also sold 10 copies in Ireland and just one copy in Australia, making a known international total of 552 books. The disappointing figure is despite Thompson being given every chance to plug the book. It has been reviewed widely, including by his own newspaper.

His publicity drive has also included an interview with the Sunday Times Magazine in London and an appearance at the Edinburgh book festival.
By contrast, Cuckservative: How "Conservatives" Betrayed America also has a negative title, but it sold 1,197 copies on day one. It still has not been reviewed or even mentioned by anyone in the mainstream media, despite having been a #1 bestseller in the Politics category.

Blogs 1, Mainstream 0.

As the media reality becomes increasingly detached from observable reality, the media becomes increasingly irrelevant.

138 Comments:

Anonymous Mr. Publishing House Gatekeeper September 16, 2016 10:04 AM  

But...but...but...muh Barnes & Noble! Muh brick! Muh mortar!

Muh New York Review of Us!

Anonymous andon September 16, 2016 10:12 AM  

When New York Times chief Mark Thompson published his latest book, ‘Enough Said: What’s Gone Wrong With the Language of Politics?’

I never heard of this guy and I didn't know any non-jews worked at the NYT

Anonymous andon September 16, 2016 10:13 AM  

it does sound like an exciting book though

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 16, 2016 10:17 AM  

Yes, the title makes me want to pick it up.

Then look for a door that needs to be propped open.

Blogger dc.sunsets September 16, 2016 10:21 AM  

Yours is an illustration of "Vox, Inc."

You use your blog to drift-net fish for paying customers. The blog is intensive in terms of your input, but relatively low in cost compared to a Mainstream Ad Campaign.

This is the New Economy. A low-cost venue to connect at zero cost (to others) which sifts far more efficiently than traditional advertising for people willing to enter your "income stream."

Everyone in this system is there willingly. It is far better, far more efficient and far less invasive and annoying than the tradition of advertising, cold-calling and cater-to-the-middle triangulation.

Blogger HonorLiving September 16, 2016 10:22 AM  

What's the impact of the explosion of free books?

On the one hand, I can buy some mediocre book by some no name NYT columnist trying to build a career and get on political talk shows. On the other, I can read Cicero for free.

Blogger dc.sunsets September 16, 2016 10:23 AM  

Make that "Vox Day, Inc."

Blogger Undocumented Pharmacist September 16, 2016 10:28 AM  

What was his advance on the book? Apparently some idiots paid Amy Schumer $9 million for a book. $9 million. Her audience can barely read tweets over 100 characters. They sure don't read books.

Blogger Dexter September 16, 2016 10:31 AM  

"Over the next five days it sold a mere 59 copies."

So Thompson managed to browbeat 59 NYT employees. Ha ha!

Blogger Sillon Bono September 16, 2016 10:31 AM  

There we go again, another SJW-LGBT Incident in open source:

https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg00036.html

Blogger Minecraft Chuck September 16, 2016 10:32 AM  

Why would anybody care what the Marxist jerk has to say? And pay money for the privilege? They already know his opinions - he's an editor for the NY Slimes.

Anonymous fish September 16, 2016 10:40 AM  

7. dc.sunsets September 16, 2016 10:23 AM

Make that "Vox Day, Inc."


Glad to see you correct that vile insult!

Anonymous Gen. Kong September 16, 2016 10:41 AM  

This is not a new tale. The Lügenpresse and its book-publishing corps(e) have been (according to their own whines) had one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel for at least a decade now. I imagine the business model of the Detroilet Frei-Presse, the New Slim-Duranty Times, the Star and Sickle and other Lügenpresse 'enterprises' aren't anything a rational person would invest hard-earned money in. (Keeping in mind that MPAI and that SJWs are not exactly what one could refer to as rational, nor are cuckservatives, ghost-dancers, deck-chair feng-shui masters, etc.). Yet they're all still afloat, banana-peels and all. Is this a good example of the power of counterfeiting/debt-racketeering? Considering (((who))) owns these various failing enterprises (despite allegedly being the smartest folks on earth) and [[[whom]]] is the target of their agenda - both via direct propaganda (lies) and "investment" scams run by (((the usual suspects))) - one suspects that these entities are designated as TBTF, so their financial viability is not important as long as the rackets continue to fund them. The day it all comes to and end will be the day they all collapse like a house of cards.

Anonymous andon September 16, 2016 10:46 AM  

@ #4 - at least Cernovich might tell me something interesting

Anonymous andon September 16, 2016 10:50 AM  

I read the other day that the New York Times' bestseller list isn't actually based on sales so maybe we'll see this guy's book on there before long

Anonymous VFM#1819 September 16, 2016 10:51 AM  

I think he is overlooking that most people may disagree with the premise summarized in the title. People are sick and tired of the subterfuge and the niceties and the double speak. In the famous words of John Doe in the movie Seven, "Wanting people to listen, you can't just tap them on the shoulder anymore. You have to hit them with a sledgehammer, and then you'll notice you've got their strict attention."

If you are one of those who thinks political discourse has gotten too rough over the last few years, I have some advice for you; hang on to your seats because it's going to get a helluva lot worse.




Bitch.

Blogger VD September 16, 2016 10:51 AM  

Lügenpresse

You guys REALLY need to stop using that word. It doesn't make you sound intelligent or perceptive. It makes you sound like a Nazi sperg who can't wait to deliver a lecture on how Hitler invented algebra.

And before anyone gets started on THAT idiocy, even the Left isn't dumb enough to try to salvage a word once it becomes rhetorical poison. They coopt terms with positive persuasive effect.

Blogger David The Good September 16, 2016 10:51 AM  

Heh. My book on survival gardening outsold a NYT writer with actual press coverage.

This truly is the best of all possible worlds.

Blogger VoodooJock September 16, 2016 10:52 AM  

It's pretty simple. When the media makes themselves the propaganda arm of oligarchs, anything they push is going to be seen as an extension of their ideals by the populace. The only thing that's surprising is that they haven't used the L. Ron Hubbard business model and bought their own books to push

OpenID paworldandtimes September 16, 2016 11:01 AM  

The last time I bought a book because I was spurred a newspaper's review was Coetzee's "Disgrace" c. 1999. Meanwhile, I most recently bought four paperbacks off a blog's recommendation: two copies of "SJWs Always Lie" and two copies of "Cuckservative" (the second copy of each title as a gift to a friend).

PA

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 16, 2016 11:01 AM  

@18
Would remaindered copies of that guys book be OK to compost?
I wouldn't want to get anything toxic like heavy metals or NY Times cooties into my garden

Anonymous Rolf September 16, 2016 11:01 AM  

"What’s Gone Wrong With the Language of Politics?", written by a guy at the NYT? Dude, look in a mirror, or take a selfie at the office with your co-workers. There is your answer, staring back at you. When you lie and twist language for a living, using a bubble and echo chamber for feedback, eventually it catches up with you.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) September 16, 2016 11:03 AM  

I imagine the business model of the Detroilet Frei-Presse, the New Slim-Duranty Times, the Star and Sickle and other Lügenpresse 'enterprises' aren't anything a rational person would invest hard-earned money in.

On the contrary, it's tremendously profitable to have your own newspaper, especially one that shapes elite opinions. Carlos Slim has probably achieved a massive return on his investment in the NYT.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 16, 2016 11:05 AM  

You guys REALLY need to stop using that word. It doesn't make you sound intelligent or perceptive. It makes you sound like a Nazi sperg who can't wait to deliver a lecture on how Hitler invented algebra.

Guilty as charged.

Besides, "lying-press" is redundant.

Blogger Student in Blue September 16, 2016 11:07 AM  

And before anyone gets started on THAT idiocy, even the Left isn't dumb enough to try to salvage a word once it becomes rhetorical poison. They coopt terms with positive persuasive effect.

"But, but, it worked with 'gay'!"

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) September 16, 2016 11:10 AM  

It makes you sound like a Nazi sperg who can't wait to deliver a lecture on how Hitler invented algebra.

There is a German mathematician named Lutz Fuhrer who was born in 1945.

Blogger Brian S September 16, 2016 11:14 AM  

he can always hope it becomes a cult hit via amazon reviews like "how to avoid huge ships"

https://amzn.com/0870334336

Blogger Nate September 16, 2016 11:17 AM  

the problem isn't the fact that the title is negative.

The problem is the title is boring as hell.

Blogger Undocumented Pharmacist September 16, 2016 11:22 AM  

@10

Fork it! If it is actually worth the trouble. If that "person" is leading the project, I'm dubious as to its merit.

Blogger Doom September 16, 2016 11:23 AM  

Thanks for the reminder. I am buying two more of these books next payday. No, I am NOT supporting you as a false collector. I am handing them out. I don't know that they will be read. People lie to me. I shock them. Though I think I have have caused some to rethink some things, even whether cholesterol medication is wise. After I soften them up, I then introduce them to you. *grins* You are harder but go about it more... civilly. Not my gig.

Still, I really think, slowly, I am... getting a few men to think things all over again, and some of their wives. If their wives have a type of love-hate thing going on with me for it. They like when their husbands ball up, but... also... don't like it. "Had him whipped, damn you!"... but they know they hated him for being whipped, so... As I change men, they go on to discuss these things with other men. Men aren't so social, so it's a slow slog. It is getting there though.

Yeah... two books. I've handed out other of your books too. Very worth my nickel if I think men begin to think rightly. I am almost sure one will read... if he has the time. Some men, however, are far too whipped. Sad. But you never know. As the anti-devil advocate, I must try. And do.

Anonymous ZhukovG September 16, 2016 11:23 AM  

@17 What an odd post. I wasn't aware that a term used by Germans for their MSM had become rhetorical poison.

Perhaps I haven't been paying close enough attention.

Blogger Worlds Edge September 16, 2016 11:24 AM  

Interesting. Based upon this book's Amazon rankings it seems to be doing at least okay...

Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #3,998 in Books (See Top 100 in Books)
#4 in Books > Politics & Social Sciences > Politics & Government > Political Science > Comparative Politics
#4 in Books > Law > Legal Theory & Systems > Non-US Legal Systems
#5 in Books > Politics & Social Sciences > Social Sciences > Communication & Media Studies



On top of that, it is listed in "Hot New Releases in Civil Rights & Liberties" at both # 1 (paper) and # 2 (Kindle). Probably even a more dubious distinction, but there you have it.


Either that or Amazon rankings don't really mean much in terms of sales?

I would be curious to find out what St. Martin's paid him as an advance, though I guess that sort of thing is never publicly made available.

Anonymous Sick Duck September 16, 2016 11:26 AM  

Guess what? Colin Kaprenick is the hottest selling jersey. WHat do numbers really mean?

I think you guys know you are losing. When Mrs. Clinton wins in the fall we are going to go to war with you

Blogger dc.sunsets September 16, 2016 11:30 AM  

I thought it was rather well-known that extremely few nonfiction books sell more than a few hundred copies (unless the Clown author also works for a university, in which case he/she simple places the latest edition on the required reading list.)

This OP is a corollary to the recent discussion of the Romance Novel genre serving a (self-destructive) role for women parallel to that of video porn for men. The left destroyed language, then storytelling (both written and visual), we have both written and video proof of it, and now their standard-bearers ask how it happened?

Some people take a lack of self-knowledge to the level of art.

Anonymous andon September 16, 2016 11:34 AM  

I think it was Ricky Vaughn posted something where NFL TV ratings were down like 18% in the young male age range - 18-40 or so?

people are waking up

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 16, 2016 11:34 AM  

@29
@10

How widely used is Libreboot ? It looks rather niche-y to me.

Mostly C with some Assembly? Shouldn't be too difficult to fork.

Blogger BassmanCO September 16, 2016 11:35 AM  

Sick Duck, you going to war with us is like a pug going after a great dane. The only reason we haven't killed you already is because we aren't the monsters you are. But go ahead, provoke a fight with all the people with guns and experience fighting. Good luck with that.

Anonymous Gen. Kong September 16, 2016 11:35 AM  

Re: Lügenpresse.
Guilty as charged.

Besides, "lying-press" is redundant.


Same here. I think I picked it up over at Spencer's place. MSM or "drive-by" is too cucky . Ministry of Truth is damned near perfect for them but how may folks have even read 1984?

Anonymous VFM #6306 September 16, 2016 11:38 AM  

Cuckservative is an infinitely better title than Enough Said. The first tells you the author is going to say something and stand behind it; the second literally tells the reader that the book has no original words left.

The covers could not be more different: A distressed and eerily disturbing patriotic flag on a clear blue "sky" for the first one. A bunch of words in comic sans on the second one.

The first one is 5 bucks electronic, 12 bucks print. The second one is 15 bucks electronic, 21 bucks print.

Journalists are Math is Hard Barbies, except nowhere near as cute.

Blogger Bard September 16, 2016 11:40 AM  

His title needs to be just a little more descriptive of how boring and unimportant his book is no matter the actual content

Blogger Bard September 16, 2016 11:42 AM  

Or, he could have simply titled it "Trump ruined my Book Title"

Blogger Robert Divinity September 16, 2016 11:47 AM  

Re: Lügenpresse.
Guilty as charged.

Besides, "lying-press" is redundant.


Same here. I think I picked it up over at Spencer's place. MSM or "drive-by" is too cucky . Ministry of Truth is damned near perfect for them but how may folks have even read 1984?

I started to use the term after a German linguistic panel named it the worst reintroduced word of the year after Pergida reclaimed it. I'll refrain from using it here.

Blogger Assyrian Nationalist September 16, 2016 11:53 AM  

VD wrote:You guys REALLY need to stop using that word. It doesn't make you sound intelligent or perceptive. It makes you sound like a Nazi sperg who can't wait to deliver a lecture on how Hitler invented algebra.

And before anyone gets started on THAT idiocy, even the Left isn't dumb enough to try to salvage a word once it becomes rhetorical poison. They coopt terms with positive persuasive effect.


If I'm your average person that comes across the (((echo))), and I decide to google "triple parentheses", all the top hits describe it as a symbol used by Neo-Nazis to identify Jews. Does this not poison the (((echo)))?

Blogger Bard September 16, 2016 11:53 AM  

Rodhampress?

Blogger Robert Divinity September 16, 2016 11:53 AM  

Re: New York Times Review of Books

There's a lot of delicious irony here. I had the pleasure to interview one of the Vanderbilt Fugitives many years ago. He told me his most critically acclaimed novel was killed after a fellow Southerner deemed the book "racist" in a review for the NYT. Republished decades later, the novel is now considered a classic.

If memory serves, the NYT Review of Books' ratings system has been exposed as a fraud several times. After that came to light, publishers started to do bulk straw purchases to increase rankings. This practice also was outed.

It's the indifference to the mighty more than their fall that gives me great pleasure.

Blogger Bard September 16, 2016 11:58 AM  

Rodhampress?

Blogger Sam Lively September 16, 2016 12:06 PM  

That sounds more like a paper for a poly sci journal than a mainstream book. The higher they go up the chain, the less journalists realize how boring they can be.

Blogger RobertT September 16, 2016 12:24 PM  

There you go. Mainstream media is dead. Lived longer than it should have. Not a single good experience with MSM.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 16, 2016 12:26 PM  

MSM or "drive-by" is too cucky . Ministry of Truth is damned near perfect for them but how may folks have even read 1984?

I've seen M$M but, eh, I dunno, it only works in US text for a start. MiniTruth?

It's "the press". Them. Credulous and ignorant. Dumb as a box of rocks. Easily trolled. The hivemind.

Is Pegida still using Lugenpresse?

Blogger Noah B September 16, 2016 12:29 PM  

As just one example, swastikas had become rhetorical poison and the AltRight is using those everywhere, and has been since its beginnings. Shattering the norms that have been imposed on discourse in the Western world is, if not the longstanding goal, an excellent side effect. Is using the German word Lügenpresse really any different?

Blogger Robert Divinity September 16, 2016 12:35 PM  

Is Pegida still using Lugenpresse?

Individual members are. I'm unaware of any group policy against its use.

Anonymous VFM #6306 September 16, 2016 1:02 PM  

Assyrian Nationalist wrote:VD wrote:You guys REALLY need to stop using that word. It doesn't make you sound intelligent or perceptive. It makes you sound like a Nazi sperg who can't wait to deliver a lecture on how Hitler invented algebra.

And before anyone gets started on THAT idiocy, even the Left isn't dumb enough to try to salvage a word once it becomes rhetorical poison. They coopt terms with positive persuasive effect.


If I'm your average person that comes across the (((echo))), and I decide to google "triple parentheses", all the top hits describe it as a symbol used by Neo-Nazis to identify Jews. Does this not poison the (((echo)))?


No it does not. Google is no more the final word on rhetorical success than Wikipedia.

After all, if you Google "lugenpresse", you'll get a straightforward: "Lying press (German: Lügenpresse, lit. 'lies press') is a pejorative term used largely by German political movements for the printed press and the mass media at large, when it is believed not to have the quest for truth at the heart of its coverage."

So it isn't Google that invalidates it. What invalidates lugenpresse and not (((echo))) are threefold:

1. Lugenpresse is cumbersome and without immediate meaning. Extra punctuation marks is efficient and eye-catching, and you instantly know it means "something" even if you don't know what that "something" is.

2. The German term is so easily and immediately and sloppily tied to the Nazis that it is a non-starter for rhetoric. Same reason why the shorter and seemingly "more pleasant, infectious" "Hitlery" doesn't work as well as "Crooked Hillary."

3. (((echo))) demonstrates a shocking truth - that the so-called "lugenpresse" is absolutely and disproportionately led by (((the People))). The term Lugenpresse actually obscures this as it makes it sound like German nazis run the media, when the truth is far more Talmudic.

tldr; Lugenpresse is shit rhetoric. (((the media))) is not.

Anonymous GreyS September 16, 2016 1:11 PM  

What's funny is that Mark Thompson sees himself as a real forward thinker on the intersection of old/new media. I have no doubt that he's currently convincing himself and his publisher that the problem was a negative title.

Blogger ManofGondor September 16, 2016 1:15 PM  

Haha We have all the guns!

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) September 16, 2016 1:18 PM  


Is Pegida still using Lugenpresse?


They are also German.

Blogger ManofGondor September 16, 2016 1:20 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

OpenID luciussomesuch September 16, 2016 1:28 PM  

"Re: New York Times Review of Books"

I think you're (understandably) conflating The New York Times Book Review (with its "bestseller" charts) with The New York Review of Books, an artsy-leftie highbrow mag with an attached "classics" press, which puts out high quality paperbacks of many interesting 20th Century titles of semi-forgotten note, such as the Nancy Mitford biographies of 18th Century luminaries.

Blogger Noah B September 16, 2016 1:31 PM  

@54 So are many of us.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 16, 2016 1:34 PM  

Trump trolls media again with "birther bait" followed by military endorsement switch.

44 more flag-level officers endorse Trump.

Jake Tapper calls it "political rickroll". The butthurt in this L...er...press is so refreshing in the fall.

Blogger bob k. mando ( the hardest troll here ) September 16, 2016 1:36 PM  

13. Gen. Kong September 16, 2016 10:41 AM
The day it all comes to and end will be the day they all collapse like a house of cards.


you know this fantastic Obama recovery we're having? yeah, Hanjin shipping lines just went belly up last week.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-08/its-bordering-chaos-14-billion-cargo-stranded-sea-crews-go-crazy-hanjin-ghost-ships

since when does a major shipping line go belly up in the middle of a *recovery*?


also, Vault-Co is back up and publishing crazy.

Anonymous English Tom September 16, 2016 1:38 PM  

@2 He was the former director general of BBC Pravda (((BBC Zion))). He is a shabbas goy married to a woman from (((a different ethnicity))). He was head of BBC as the (((Saville))) scandal broke and also caused controversy when the BBC refused to run a charity appeal for palestinian's to help reconstruct gaza.

Mark Thompson, just your average, everyday piece of worthless excrement, like so many in positions of power who facilitate what (((they))) want done, no matter how egregious.

Oh, and let's not forget the BBC role in drumming up the wars that (((they))) love to create.

Anonymous VFM #6306 September 16, 2016 1:39 PM  

As just one example, swastikas had become rhetorical poison and the AltRight is using those everywhere, and has been since its beginnings. Shattering the norms that have been imposed on discourse in the Western world is, if not the longstanding goal, an excellent side effect. Is using the German word Lügenpresse really any different?

Yes, Noah B. Super different. Swastikas are cool. "Lugenpresse" sounds faggy.

Rhetoric 101: If you want to "shatter Norm" don't be Cliff Klaven.

Blogger Noah B September 16, 2016 1:42 PM  

@61 Now I wonder (((who))) convinced you that German sounds faggy.

Blogger Robert Divinity September 16, 2016 1:50 PM  

"Lugenpresse" sounds faggy.

Pegida and German speakers worldwide would be surprised.

@56

I'll go back and pull the clipping, but from memory it was a NYT review, but you could be right.

Blogger Student in Blue September 16, 2016 1:52 PM  

@54 So are many of us.

Unfortunately, any German word being used in English automatically has connotations of Nazi Hitler and all of that. That doesn't change if you're 100% Bavarian living in Bavaria, or if you're from Cajun Country in Louisiana.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) September 16, 2016 1:53 PM  

@54 So are many of us.

Using a German word when you a speaking German and using a German word when you are speaking English is different.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother September 16, 2016 1:57 PM  

All of these ridiculous books written by our betters can all be titled very simply:

"Why Aren't You Listening To Meeeeeeeee"

Blogger Noah B September 16, 2016 1:58 PM  

@64 Just think of it as a last line of defense in case the swastikas, iron crosses, sig runes, and oven memes don't get the point across.

Connotations of Nazi Hitler? We. Don't Care.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 16, 2016 2:01 PM  

This book by this particular dinosaur is 2nd generation meme warfare.
Used to be a man, especially an academic, was assessed by his bookshelf. Walk from the faculty lounge into his office, see what books he has to hand, better the the approved ones in prominent sight but nothing too alternative.

So this doorstop would be expected to sell to the right people who would then skim it and put it on a prominent shelf for visitors to see. That's how it used to work. Whatever key meme was buried in the book was therefore agreed upon or celebrated or passed on, etc.

One example: I'm sure plenty of the right people bought a copy of Dreams from my Father and made very sure to display it carefully just a few years ago. Well, maybe not Bill Ayers.

Who thinks this way anymore? Even the over 50 crowd is probably giving it up.

So they fire off a doorstop. We fire back Pepe with Trump hair doing a conga line past Hillary Rodan Robot stumbling out of her shoes.

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 16, 2016 2:05 PM  

NYC delenda est.

Blogger VD September 16, 2016 2:15 PM  

Is using the German word Lügenpresse really any different?

Yes. It sparks no emotional response like a swastika does. It's not rhetoric, it's not even normal dialectic, it's sperg performance dialectic.

The primary objective of anyone using it is for someone to ask what it means.

Connotations of Nazi Hitler? We. Don't Care.

No, it is connotations of inept sperg. That is negative rhetoric.

Blogger Noah B September 16, 2016 2:29 PM  

All rhetoric should be tailored to suit the target audience, so using a word like Lügenpresse (or any other AltRight language) isn't going to play well with a normified American audience. Clearly using language that's confusing to a receptive, friendly target audience is a bad strategy. You want such an audience to clearly and fully understand your message.

But if you're trolling a hostile audience, like media or leftist minions, the dynamic is completely different. Confounding them can be a positive. Thus the success of Pepe.

Anonymous Gen. Kong September 16, 2016 2:47 PM  

If it's inept rhetoric then it's of no use. I think we are in need of a good rhetorical term for the 'Ministry of Truth' (which is likewise fairly useless as rhetoric), who needs discrediting at every opportunity. I think VFM #6306 explained Lügenpresse's rhetorical failings pretty well. (((Media))) probably works fine as "journalism" really is overwhelmingly owned by the (((them))), and folks like the jackass whose book is failing really are just shabbas-goys carrying water for his bosses.

Blogger Bard September 16, 2016 2:58 PM  

Dick Suck
People are buying them to burn you stupid twat

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) September 16, 2016 2:58 PM  

If you have to explain why bad rhetoric is actually good rhetoric because (long boring list or text without paragraph breaks), it isn't good rhetoric.

Anonymous MongoJimmy September 16, 2016 3:00 PM  

Not a good idea to give one's book the same title as James Gandolfini's last film methinks. Kek does not approve.

Sweet little romantic comedy, he ended on a high note.

Blogger Noah B September 16, 2016 3:01 PM  

@72 I still disagree that it's ineffective. Ricky Vaughn uses it to good effect. I also like "Ministry of Truth" FWIW.

Anonymous MongoJimmy September 16, 2016 3:10 PM  

Oops, Gandolfini's last film was The Drop (got to check that one out).

Enough Said was the penultimate.

Anonymous BGKB September 16, 2016 3:12 PM  

Is Pegida still using Lugenpresse? They are also German.

Insults you have to explain to most people lack power. Many people called RINOS may have had it mistaken as a strength, but calling them CUCKSERVATIVEs requires no explanation.

Ricky Vaughn posted something where NFL TV ratings were down like 18% in the young male age range - 18-40 or so?

Great news

Guess what? Colin Kaprenick is the hottest selling jersey. WHat do numbers really mean?

See my new video of me Burning A Koran with Colon's jersey with a combo of bacon grease and dog feces

Blogger J A Baker September 16, 2016 3:18 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous GreyS September 16, 2016 3:22 PM  

Pergida reclaimed it

It's fine for Germans. It's lame here. This is the internet-- keep trying until something clicks and then hammer it.

Anonymous GreyS September 16, 2016 3:31 PM  

Guess what? Colin Kaprenick is the hottest selling jersey.

I remember also being told by NFL p.r. that Michael Sam had the #1 jersey and that was never true. The NFL doesn't share their numbers and they promote their sales however they wish to. They are trying to sell Kap jerseys to one segment of the population while simultaneously getting others to get angry and buy a Rodgers or a Brady etc.

Can't say I blame them for playing around with it and trying to make a Kap jersey a wearable symbol-- but Kap absolutely sucks, doesn't even play anymore and looks more jewish than black so not too many people are getting behind that.

Anonymous andon September 16, 2016 3:43 PM  

Bard September 16, 2016 2:58 PM
Dick Suck
People are buying them to burn you stupid twat



I heard someone else say that on some podcast but I don't believe it. im not surprised if a bunch of negroes want to buy that jersey and I doubt many whites would buy it just to burn. where would they burn it, in the privacy of their own back yard? what would that prove?

Blogger Robert Divinity September 16, 2016 3:43 PM  

It's fine for Germans. It's lame here. This is the internet-- keep trying until something clicks and then hammer it.

Thus far the best suggestion has been "Ministry of Truth," which is too long and for 95-plus percent of the population is meaningless. "Agitprop" and similar Soviet references even are worse. "Mediots," which I like, had a brief run a decade or so back but it never caught fire. I'm with Noah here until a better term is suggested.

Blogger Noah B September 16, 2016 3:45 PM  

Books like Dreams From My Father are also good potential conduits for money laundering. I have no proof that this is happening, but all someone has to do to bribe a politician is buy thousands of books that are never delivered. Ebooks make this absurdly easy.

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 16, 2016 3:46 PM  

GreyS wrote:Pergida reclaimed it

It's fine for Germans. It's lame here. This is the internet-- keep trying until something clicks and then hammer it.


This is probably how Pepe was born. (One of these days I need to figure out a theory for this whole meme business.)

Blogger Noah B September 16, 2016 3:48 PM  

I had expected that people would cry "Nazi" but reactions like sperg, lame are damaging. Nothing a little time in ze camps won't fix!

Anonymous MongoJimmy September 16, 2016 3:54 PM  

I call them Liars for Hire.

From a song by Canadian punk band D.O.A.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) September 16, 2016 4:08 PM  


I had expected that people would cry "Nazi" but reactions like sperg, lame are damaging.


We don't care
don't
care

Blogger Leo Littlebook in Shenzhen September 16, 2016 4:54 PM  

Nerdy Nazis fail fash fashion. "Lugenpresse" requires a Google query, disqualifying it as rhetoric. But obscurantism is not the term's only appeal.

The headspace competitor for "lugenpresse" is "MSM" or "Mainstream Media". 3 syllables of defiant dark chocolate beats 5 of anodyne outnumbered bureaucratese.

It's oddly heartening to be reminded of the parallels to Weimar, for that regime was brief. "MSM" connotes being outgunned; "lugenpresse" suggests a parasitical micro-minority on the verge of purge.

It's difficult to rationalize not speaking to mainstream journalists, but easy to contemptuously shun treasonous liars on their way down.

How about calling them the Average Media instead? Americans consider "average" a dirty word. "Centrists" don't deserve the connotations of "heartland, true belongers, normal". Call them Averagists too. Average Media for average people.

As for the American parallel to the lugenpresse... that would be de Tocqueville's mono-press.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 16, 2016 5:18 PM  

Someone calls "them" the Legacy media, is that Limbaugh?

Eh. "They" are the old media. The old fashioned media. The buggywhip media. The lame media, some use "lamestream" but that's a bit too cute.

The label needs a connotation of out-of-date, passe', pretty much useless. Too boring to be worth the trouble. Or too Deplorable.

The "front lawn" media, as in "Hey! You kids get off my lawn!".

Sailers has a good post up Old lady yells at frog, to be fair the frog started it so...old lady media?

Blogger tublecane September 16, 2016 5:24 PM  

@6-We've had free books for a long time, but you're right, "explosion" is a good term. It's easier downloading than going to the libary. (Judging by recent trips, libraries are not for reading, but are internet bars/babysitting services.) I wonder why they ever let us have free, copyright-expired books. Maybe they thought no one would read them. But boy, oh, boy, a lot of them are Narrative-proof. Not worth the risk

They change the Narrative so often that they forget, I think, that even the ones subversive of the Old Order (yiu know, regular people doing regular things) are sexist, racist, and all manner of other evil things, according to today's standards.

Blogger tublecane September 16, 2016 5:36 PM  

@70-"The primary objective of anyone using it is for someone to ask what it means"

Wrong, or only when used in mixed company. I bet it's used most often among people who don't mind being called a Nazi. It's like jargon. Your attribution of autism is, as usual, off-base.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 16, 2016 5:40 PM  

How about "Grandma's news".
Parallels "Grandma's stories", implies weakness, fake drama and desperate lack of fashion.

Anonymous GreyS September 16, 2016 5:41 PM  

This is probably how Pepe was born. (One of these days I need to figure out a theory for this whole meme business.)

It's an interesting subject, because what works for one falls flat for another. The Pepe thing was great as it attached to the Alt-R and to Trump because new people had no idea what it is or where it came from and are intrigued by it and then further it in fun ways. *You can't look at it and understand what it means or stands for* But whereas a symbol might fall flat, the frog looks goofy enough to be fun and leads to more investigation-- but you don't know how to investigate it because you don't know what it is but keep seeing it in various places and then the fun-based intrigue grows.

Contrast that with the girl used by Gamergate. That was an inside thing and was never meant for the general public to get involved in. It worked for them because they get it but they don't expect anyone else to get it and don't care that people don't know what it is.

Contrast those with something like Lügenpresse. What's the job? The aim? The job is to discredit mainstream media and to expose their false role. Expose it to whom? The wider public. You want something which sticks in the minds of the general public and which can be repeated by people to their coworkers and relatives. The chances of Lügenpresse making it to the sharing level are laughably bad.

You can use a cartoon or tv character and attach the media to public's perception of it if you can find a match-- similar to the way some folks here might have used "Eddie Haskell" or the Simpsons' "Milhouse" to describe certain types of friends. (not saying those are matches for the press, just using them as examples of how people use characters in shorthand reference) There are all sorts of duplicitous characters to draw from in popular culture. Maybe one will work for the press.

Using a word or a phrase is probably the best way in this case. You don't want something from other countries or political systems. You want it to catch with people's feelings FOR this country and the press' betrayal of it. Some word or phrase which connotes betrayal to country or duty for personal gain. You want something which stings a little (the press will feel the hurt but paradoxically repeat the phrase in an effort to stop the use of it--see 'Cuckservative') But you don't want something too vulgar because you want it passed around by coworkers and repeated at Thanksgiving. Find a demeaning word like 'toady' or a word which makes them look stupid like "stooge". Something similar to 'Useful Idiots' but press specific.

Funny how it works. Maybe it's an offhand phrase Trump uses, maybe it's an unintentionally funny phrase the press uses to describe themselves. Maybe a cartoon or movie character or some descriptive word or phrase. Someone will come up with something good and the crowdsourcing of the internet will keep it going.

Remember:

*Just because your little corner of the internet gets it and uses it doesn't mean it will fly long-term.
*Do not get your feelings hurt if others on your side think it's not working.
*Bad ideas don't matter. It's when you attach yourself to a bad idea and won't let go that is wrong.
*Keep moving. Keep trying things. Something will click.

Blogger tublecane September 16, 2016 5:42 PM  

@92-Not that I think it's good rhetoric. But if good rhetoric is defined by whether or not it has to be explained, then about 80% of the memes on this board fail. I had to look up "kek" the other day, for instance. Up to then it had a negative effect on me, because not only did I not get it, it was annoying because I felt as if "lol" should be used instead.

Blogger tublecane September 16, 2016 5:46 PM  

@94-Who says the point is to get it to the wider public? I mean, that would be the ideal, but there is such a thing as insider terminology. People like having words only those "in the know" are privy to. It helps build community.

Not that this particular term is the best for that purpose, either. But I resent the idea that every tagline has to "Where's the Beef?" for instance. Or that anything not immediately comprehensible is a result of autism.

Anonymous Spergatron 2000 September 16, 2016 5:56 PM  

Monkey Media

Blogger tublecane September 16, 2016 5:57 PM  

@94-"Just because your little corner of the internet gets it and uses it doesn't mean it will fly long term"

Just because it won't fly long term doesn't mean it shouldn't be used. Certainly doesn't mean it's "spergy "

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 16, 2016 6:00 PM  

GreyS wrote:You can use a cartoon or tv character and attach the media to public's perception of it if you can find a match-- similar to the way some folks here might have used "Eddie Haskell" or the Simpsons' "Milhouse" to describe certain types of friends.
If we're going with Simpsons references, Kent Brockman is th obvious choice, but Lionel Hutz is a better fit.

Or Gil. Poor ol' Gil. Doesn't Gil get a lick?

Anonymous VFM #6306 September 16, 2016 6:01 PM  

Robert Divinity wrote: "Lugenpresse" sounds faggy.

Pegida and German speakers worldwide would be surprised.

Faggy speakers typically are surprised they sound faggy.

Anonymous Gen. Kong September 16, 2016 6:04 PM  

"Zombiemedia" is a fairly descriptive one I've seen before. It fits them well too.

Blogger tublecane September 16, 2016 6:04 PM  

Alternative names for "lungenpresse":

MSM (Mainstream Media)
Dinosaur Media
(((Media))) (or Jew-Run Media)
Official Press
Media Cartel
Corporate Media
Lamestream Media
Pravda
Presstitutes
Press Corpse
Lapdog Media
Ministry of Truth/Propaganda
The Lying Press
Make-believe Media
Legacy Media

There are too many to list, really. We do need something new.

Anonymous GreyS September 16, 2016 6:09 PM  

Who says the point is to get it to the wider public?

Some are some aren't. 'Cuckservative' was aimed at and for use by the right.
The girl from Gamergate (don't know the name) was aimed at a more specific group.
The idea that the media is corrupt is one which is felt by the majority of people in the country and is something with which you can draw people FROM the general public TO your side.

Anonymous GreyS September 16, 2016 6:13 PM  

Just because it won't fly long term doesn't mean it shouldn't be used. Certainly doesn't mean it's "spergy "

The Lügenpresse is fine.

Blogger tublecane September 16, 2016 6:16 PM  

@104-How many times do I have to type a variation on "not that it's good rhetoric" in order to avoid being called autistic? Every single post? Watch out, or it'll be as meaningful as "retarded."

Blogger tublecane September 16, 2016 6:17 PM  

@104-Or do only autistes every apologize for something they don't personally care for?

Anonymous Duh September 16, 2016 6:31 PM  

@106
Only if they're retarded.

Anonymous GreyS September 16, 2016 6:34 PM  

I had to look up "kek" the other day,

I still don't know what it means and that doesn't bother me in the least. Trying to stay up on memes is not a productive use of time, Alt-R or no Alt-R, and 'kek' is a good example of one which is not intriguing enough to chase, to me anyway.

Horses for courses.

Anonymous GreyS September 16, 2016 6:43 PM  

@104

Just having fun there, bro. Feel free to use the word as much as you want wherever you want. Just saying that outside of a small group of people it is ineffective imv.

Anonymous andon September 16, 2016 6:48 PM  

@ tublecane - I like (((media cartel)))

Anonymous andon September 16, 2016 7:01 PM  

(Judging by recent trips, libraries are not for reading, but are internet bars/babysitting services.)

yeah I hate that. I stopped going about 10 years ago when they added DVD rentals and the kind of people that started showing up - loud, disrespectful, etc.
then the illegal aliens bringing in their screaming children for babysitting

Blogger S1AL September 16, 2016 7:01 PM  

Talking Shitheads. Won't fly with swpl types, but should work for earthier middle America.

Blogger VD September 16, 2016 7:19 PM  

But if good rhetoric is defined by whether or not it has to be explained, then about 80% of the memes on this board fail. I had to look up "kek" the other day, for instance. Up to then it had a negative effect on me, because not only did I not get it, it was annoying because I felt as if "lol" should be used instead.

Kek is neither rhetoric nor dialectic. It is not persuasion, argument, or information exchange.

You're right to say that Lügenpresse is used by those who don't mind being called Nazis. More to the point, it's used primarily by those who want to rehabilitate the term "Nazi". They DESPERATELY want people to ask what it means so that they can tell them.

It is a very spergy term and it is anti-rhetorical. Simply saying "Lying Press" would be better. Remember, unlike most of the people who use the term, I actually speak German. Any English speaker who is using it is simply enamored of the fact that it's a German word, they're not trying to persuade anyone.

It's basically the equivalent of flashing Nazi hand signals at each other. It persuades no one to distrust the press, rather, to distrust the person using it.

Blogger VD September 16, 2016 7:24 PM  

Who says the point is to get it to the wider public? I mean, that would be the ideal, but there is such a thing as insider terminology.

Because the morons who use it keep using places like here. And because, as you say, that would be "the ideal".

Gamers don't give a damn if non-gamers use "kek" or not. But if you want to convince people not to trust the press, and you know you do, calling the press the Lügenpresse is self-defeating.

"Hey, we're all Nazis here, right? Don't you hate those people who lie about us Nazis?"

That's freaking retarded. To call it spergy is giving it the benefit of the doubt.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 16, 2016 7:34 PM  

Good day, (((fellow))) Nazis! I'm feeling very supreme today. How about you?

Blogger Kyle Searle September 16, 2016 7:39 PM  

American trust in mass media continues to fall off a cliff:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/195542/americans-trust-mass-media-sinks-new-low.aspx

Mass media trust is falling like an Air Malayasa flight. Meanwhile the mass media continues to attack Trump at every real and every fabricated opportunity. It is any wonder, when 2/3rds of the American people don't trust the media, and the media hates Trump, that Trump's numbers continue to stiffen.

The media must be so butt-hurt that Jeb didn't win, all those billions of advertising dollars down the drain. Now they work for the Donald for free.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd September 16, 2016 7:56 PM  

Vox, lügenpress is rhetorical poison? I never used it, because I figured it was way too opaque to connect with most readers. Is that why it's poison, or was it effective, and then got turned somehow?

I have used the English version, lying press, to convey contempt, e.g. ``The lying press publishes polls to shape your opinion, not to measure it.'' I don't think it's very effective, so it's not something I use often.

Blogger tublecane September 16, 2016 8:09 PM  

@113-Of course "kek" is rhetorical, the same way "lol" is (as in, "The alt-right is using Nazi terminology. LOL." . Not all the time, but it's regularly used to say, "I'm laughing at you," or "We're a fun bunch over here, come join us." Both are examples of persuasion.

Anonymous VFM 9054 September 16, 2016 8:14 PM  

For all you who are committed to lügenpress, consider using judenpress instead.

Blogger tublecane September 16, 2016 8:14 PM  

@113-Just because they want you to ask them what it means (and I'm not sure they do; I think it's more of a garden-variety in-term) doesn't make it spergy. There are undoubtedly Nazi Nerds, and they want to impress people with their command of Nazi esoterica. But isn't it possible to be a nerd and not be autistic? Since when have "spergs" conquered the field?

I think people on this board, and on the internet generally, invoke the term far, far too easily.

Blogger S1AL September 16, 2016 8:17 PM  

"For all you who are committed to lügenpress, consider using judenpress instead"

That is the opposite of an improvement.

Anonymous GreyS September 16, 2016 8:28 PM  

@121

lol...

"What if we add a well-timed "Sieg Heil!" or photoshop yellow stars on journalists pics on twitter....?"

Blogger The Other Robot September 16, 2016 10:11 PM  

The symbolism of Hillary's campaign slogan.

Maybe C for Cunt would have been better.

Blogger The Other Robot September 16, 2016 10:12 PM  

Just use Main Slime Media, Michelle Fields Lying Media of something like that.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey September 16, 2016 10:47 PM  

Legacy media?

Blogger Noah B September 16, 2016 11:18 PM  

@113 I would expect that if someone comes across a word on the internet they don't know and they want to know what it means, they're hopefully just going to search for it. Further, if a word indeed sparks no emotional response, then its use will not persuade a reader to distrust you.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey September 16, 2016 11:28 PM  

"But if you're trolling a hostile audience, like media or leftist minions..."

Exactly. It's useful for trolling/ enraging leftists, while having no effect on any audience of normal people. They just see the leftists chimping out over some esoteric foreign word. Kind of like the Hillary campaign's Pepe rage.

Using it for general communication, though-- no. MSM comes off as maybe a little too uncool and Tea partyish. I tend to go with "legacy media," which connotes failure in terms of the Left's own "progress" paradigm: "It's THE CURRENT YEAR and you still pay attention to the legacy media?" Or something...

Any better ideas?

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey September 16, 2016 11:47 PM  

"But if you're trolling a hostile audience, like media or leftist minions..."

Exactly. It's useful for trolling/ enraging leftists, while having no effect on any audience of normal people. They just see the leftists chimping out over some esoteric foreign word. Kind of like the Hillary campaign's Pepe rage.

Using it for general communication, though-- no. MSM comes off as maybe a little too uncool and Tea partyish. I tend to go with "legacy media," which connotes failure in terms of the Left's own "progress" paradigm: "It's THE CURRENT YEAR and you still pay attention to the legacy media?" Or something...

Any better ideas?

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey September 16, 2016 11:47 PM  

Legacy media?

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable September 17, 2016 12:03 AM  

You want something which stings a little (the press will feel the hurt but paradoxically repeat the phrase in an effort to stop the use of it--see 'Cuckservative') But you don't want something too vulgar because you want it passed around by coworkers and repeated at Thanksgiving. Find a demeaning word like 'toady' or a word which makes them look stupid like "stooge". Something similar to 'Useful Idiots' but press specific.

Some current options:

Lying Press
Codpiece Media
Democrats With Bylines

And one I just made up:

Jelly Journo

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable September 17, 2016 12:18 AM  

Talking Shitheads

I like to call the TV ones Life Support Systems For Good Hair.

Blogger Leo Littlebook in Shenzhen September 17, 2016 1:00 AM  

"Legacy media" attacks the medium and misses the messenger.

You want to attack the root of their pride - me goodthinker specialperson good-win-herd entitled status-cattle:

People of average intelligence have mainstream views.

Progressivism is correctly believing your dad is an idiot, without noticing the implication.

The monopress puts the pro into propaganda, drilling the hole in your soul that the advertisers fill by draining your wallet while you run the corporate treadmill. Faster please!

Anonymous VFM #6306 September 17, 2016 1:04 AM  

Give it up, Noah B. Rhetoric is a harsh mistress.

Blogger Robert Divinity September 17, 2016 2:29 AM  

17.  VD
September 16, 2016 10:51 AM
Lügenpresse

You guys REALLY need to stop using that word. It doesn't make you sound intelligent or perceptive. It makes you sound like a Nazi sperg who can't wait to deliver a lecture on how Hitler invented algebra.

And before anyone gets started on THAT idiocy, even the Left isn't dumb enough to try to salvage a word once it becomes rhetorical poison. They coopt terms with positive persuasive effect.


and then...

70.  VD
September 16, 2016 2:15 PM
Is using the German word Lügenpresse really any different?

Yes. It sparks no emotional response like a swastika does. It's not rhetoric, it's not even normal dialectic, it's sperg performance dialectic.

The primary objective of anyone using it is for someone to ask what it means.

Connotations of Nazi Hitler? We. Don't Care.

No, it is connotations of inept sperg. That is negative rhetoric.


So everyone doesn't know what it means until it is immediately recognized as Nazi-speak.

Gotcha. Thanks.

Blogger ManofGondor September 17, 2016 10:26 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous VFM 9054 September 20, 2016 1:44 AM  

S1AL wrote:"For all you who are committed to lügenpress, consider using judenpress instead"

That is the opposite of an improvement.


That is the point. Lugenpress is as stupid as using judenpress. And since judenpress is really what is meant, might as well be honest about it.

Blogger Assyrian Nationalist September 20, 2016 3:00 AM  

VFM #6306 wrote:No it does not. Google is no more the final word on rhetorical success than Wikipedia.

After all, if you Google "lugenpresse", you'll get a straightforward: "Lying press (German: Lügenpresse, lit. 'lies press') is a pejorative term used largely by German political movements for the printed press and the mass media at large, when it is believed not to have the quest for truth at the heart of its coverage."

So it isn't Google that invalidates it. What invalidates lugenpresse and not (((echo))) are threefold:

1. Lugenpresse is cumbersome and without immediate meaning. Extra punctuation marks is efficient and eye-catching, and you instantly know it means "something" even if you don't know what that "something" is.

2. The German term is so easily and immediately and sloppily tied to the Nazis that it is a non-starter for rhetoric. Same reason why the shorter and seemingly "more pleasant, infectious" "Hitlery" doesn't work as well as "Crooked Hillary."

3. (((echo))) demonstrates a shocking truth - that the so-called "lugenpresse" is absolutely and disproportionately led by (((the People))). The term Lugenpresse actually obscures this as it makes it sound like German nazis run the media, when the truth is far more Talmudic.

tldr; Lugenpresse is shit rhetoric. (((the media))) is not.


Thank you for that break down. Using your third point alone, I could envision someone looking up the (((echo))) meme and initially think that it's "racist", but over time through pattern recognition begin to wonder why so many Jews disproportionately advocate for feminism, open borders, or the numerous other movements that are undermining their nation.

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