ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2016 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Thursday, September 01, 2016

NRx and AltRight

Although a few people have attempted to shoehorn me into the "Dark Enlightenment" or classify me as a "Neoreactionary", I've never considered myself part of NRx like I do the AltRight. That's mostly because I don't think NRx exists in the same material manner that the AltRight clearly does, and also because I find its preference for elevated Akademiesprache to be obscurantist faggotry, to put it in AltRight terms. And frankly, Butch Leghorn's attempt to delineate the essential differences between the two doesn't appear to be particularly meaningful, as he attempts to do so primarily on the basis of social class.
NRx is Middle Class

According to Curt’s table, NRx is middle class. Some might take offense and argue that it is upper-middle class. Sure, the leaders of NRx are likely upper-middle class, but the average NRxer is solidly middle class. Software engineering is a middle class profession. People who run teams of middle class professionals are upper-middle class (CTOs, CIOs, CEOs, Directors, etc). The middle class is not a salary range: it is an ability range. The middle class are those who have the ability to engage in the system of production. This is why the middle class seeks liberty: because given freedom to choose their means of production, they will choose and perform, because they can. As an aside, this is why working classes are less interested in liberty, because they simply can’t capitalize on it within the system of production to nearly the level of the middle class. And the lower and under classes have zero interest in liberty, because they are completely unable to capitalize within the system of production; they desire security, not liberty (and that’s what self-interested politicians trade them in return for votes).

We can argue about the parameters of classes, and we should. We should define them. We need to understand their roles and to define the behaviors that makes one a ‘good’ member of any class, because these behaviors and actors do exist in every class. We just need to incentivize them properly, which is why we must define and understand them.

The middle class has certain behaviors which make them middle class. They follow norms of propriety. I was right when I wrote that NRx is Right Brahmin Signalling. From the SJW encyclopedia: “Brahmin is a varna (caste) in Hinduism specialising as priests, teachers (acharya) and protectors of sacred learning across generations”. NRx is a group of teachers and priests, solidly middle class and exhibiting middle class mores and norms, such as the prohibition on ridicule, mockery, libel and slander.

AltRight is Working Class

The working classes do not share the middle class values and prohibitions on ridicule, mockery, libel and slander. I have seen very clearly the revulsion of NRx to the coarse meming of the AltRight. The NRx aspersions about ‘populism’ of the AltRight. This is simply the middle class reaction to working class norms.

The thing is: the middle class needs the working class. They will do the jobs that the middle class just won’t do. Say, for example, openly attack with vitriolic hostility the enemies of Western Civilization using Pepe and Le Happy Merchant memes. Or say, engage in ‘high energy’ physical activities which raise the cost of the status quo on the controlling elite. Once the cost of the status quo is high enough, then that controlling elite will accede to the demands of the Right. Who will formulate these demands? Ultimately, the aristocratic class will, with large input from the scholarly classes. Who will implement these demands at the local levels? Obviously, the people who organize all production, the middle class, under the direction of the upper middle class, with the ‘real’ work being done by the working classes at the direction of the middle class.
This strikes me as a failure to grasp the AltRight, much as various attempts by everyone from NPR to NRO have failed, albeit a considerably more friendly failure. Actually, to be fair, it's considerably better than NPR managed, as NPR somehow managed to get itself so confused that it declared Milo and Allum to be the joint leaders of the AltRight, which was certainly a surprise to both of them as well as everyone else.

While Butch is correct to observe that AltRight is not beholden to conventional middle class concerns about niceness and etiquette and public approval from the authorities and goodthinkers, he fails to observe that the AltRight is, despite its exuberant vulgarity, every bit as intellectually formidable as NRx. Indeed, even the mainstream media has felt the need to warn the unsuspecting and the uninformed not to underestimate us simply because we utilize frog memes and some of the most appallingly crude forms of rhetoric.

I have nothing against NRx, and indeed, consider them to be more or less allies, but the idea that we need them in order to formulate a moral license to defend our nations or Western civilization is simply not the case. Butch himself says that "NRx will become an integral part in granting this moral license or it will fade into irrelevancy", which is why I expect that the compatible elements of NRx will eventually be subsumed by the AltRight, while the incompatible elements - and I have no idea which elements are compatible and which are not - will become increasingly irrelevant over time.

The AltRight has high energy, it has enthusiasm, it has talent, it has brains, and most importantly, it has courage. It understands that it has very little, if anything, to lose, because if the West fails, the future is favelas as far as the eye can see. We have no need of delicate middle-class intellectuals to do our thinking for us because they daren't soil their uncalloused hands with the necessary dirty work.

To paraphrase #GamerGate, stop pontificating, shut up, and meme.

Labels: , ,

174 Comments:

Anonymous fish September 01, 2016 2:28 PM  

We have no need of delicate middle-class intellectuals to do our thinking for us because they daren't soil their uncalloused hands with the necessary dirty work.

Somewhere Jonah Goldberg quietly weeps......

Blogger Mr.MantraMan September 01, 2016 2:37 PM  

Talks like a fag and his shit is all retarded

Blogger Matthew September 01, 2016 2:42 PM  

(((NRx))) was an attempt to forestall a nationalist Right.

Blogger pyrrhus September 01, 2016 2:43 PM  

Indeed if America goes down the drain, it will be the cult of "nice" that destroys it...Reality is not nice, and it doesn't care about feelings...One example: because Venezuela was too nice to execute Chavez when they had him in jail, it is turning into North Korea....

Blogger Anchorman September 01, 2016 2:44 PM  

The alt-Right uses frog memes because they don't care what people think of them.

Blogger Anchorman September 01, 2016 2:47 PM  

(((NRx)))

??? Has the meaning of the parentheses changed?

Blogger HonorLiving September 01, 2016 2:53 PM  

A non ideological feature of the alt-right is that it's open source. This is why attempts to define it will fail at the very least for a while.

What the left doesn't realize is that they're the ones who have forced this movement to take this form, as many of the ideas that are espoused in it cannot be said publicly without social punishment. Hence nobody shows itself, it's hard to claim leadership, and the ideological composition of the movement can readily be described in function of leftist's taboos.

If you got socially shitcanned by the left in recent years in virtue of the latest ideological monstrosity emanating from the ecumenical councils that are campus humanities departments, chances are that you have some sympathies for what you think is the alt-right.

Blogger Franz Lionheart September 01, 2016 2:55 PM  

??? Has the meaning of the parentheses changed?

Lol. (((Moldbug))), anyone?

Blogger Orville September 01, 2016 2:56 PM  

So it comes down to hot juicy memes vs dry tomes of poofter intellectuals.

I tuned out at "Brahmins".

Blogger tz September 01, 2016 2:58 PM  

Pepe is the frog that has jumped out of the increasingly hot water which has turned into a cuck pond.

Anonymous BGKB September 01, 2016 3:05 PM  

It understands that it has very little, if anything, to lose, because if the West fails, the future is favelas as far as the eye can see

David Cole makes the case that wetbacks are better to keep around than blacks. http://takimag.com/article/las_dirty_little_brown_secret_david_cole/print#axzz4J216P2gB

In Venezuela you can't even wait in line for bread. https://panampost.com/sabrina-martin/2016/08/19/venezuela-bans-lines-outside-of-bakeries-that-spread-anxiety/

find its preference for elevated Akademiesprache to be obscurantist faggotry

NAOFART- Not All Obscurantist Faggots Are Like That.

Blogger Jon M September 01, 2016 3:06 PM  

The people I consider legit spokes holes for the alt-right don't spend a lot of time worrying about who gets to wear the label or splitting definitional hairs. They talk about alt-right stuff and do alt-right operations. Full stop. Maybe I don't agree with some of them (like that pro-choice dolt at Radix), but as long as they focus on firing memes at the enemy and not me? I'm glad to stand in the digital trenches with them.

Blogger Cataline Sergius September 01, 2016 3:09 PM  

Actually, to be fair, it's considerably better than NPR managed, as NPR somehow managed to get itself so confused that it declared Milo and Allum to be the joint leaders of the AltRight, which was certainly a surprise to both of them as well as everyone else.

Okay...still laughing...gonna be awhile...

Anonymous Adriano September 01, 2016 3:11 PM  

The self proclaimed representatives of the alt right on Reddit are already trying to throttle the movement like a bunch of fags

https://m.reddit.com/r/altright/comments/50hqgj/were_going_to_be_enforcing_the_vulgarity_rule/

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr September 01, 2016 3:12 PM  

I don't think the taxonomic arguments count for much. The big point is that the Old Conservatives had a philosophy that was defined by being against certain things. Buckley's comment that a conservative was someone who stood astride the railroad tracks of history shouting, "Stop!" was right.

And we know what happens when you do that. The Left, possessing the initiative, ran the Old Conservatives over.

The Alt-Right, New Right...whatever it ultimately gets named...takes the offensive. We're FOR our agenda. There's debate about precisely what that agenda should be, but we damned well don't intend to let the Left have the initiative any more.

And the Old Conservative Establishment is going absolutely nuts over it. Especially since Trump has made the sort of outreach to the lower middle class that Reagan did. And if you dig into it, there were a lot of people in the GOP who HATED Reagan, precisely because he threatened their nice little power structure.

Blogger Sheila4g September 01, 2016 3:13 PM  

I used to consider myself fairly well read. Now that I frequent Alt Right blogs, I realize just how ignorant I was/am regarding history, philosophy, and politics. That anyone can label the Alt Right unthinking or uneducated is further evidence of how credentialism has corrupted education at all levels. I'm regularly challenged, informed, and intrigued by posts by Vox, Greg Hood, Richard Spencer, and numerous others.

Vox, I think you've just coined the best short definition of the Alt Right: Intellectually formidable exuberant vulgarity. Or why White men, not nice middle class (((boys))), represent the future.

Blogger August September 01, 2016 3:16 PM  

That sort of essay is the worst sort of essay NRX has, though I think that one was blessedly short, in comparison to some I have seen. If there is the even the merest suggestion that the author wishes to explain what NRX is, cease reading immediately.
In relation to the Alt-Right, it is a subset of the Alt-Right, given that the Alt-Right is a relatively broad term.


Anonymous ZhukovG September 01, 2016 3:19 PM  

Social class is just not a good way of determining these things. In the US in particular social class has been somewhat fluid.

A family that might have been wealthy, with several plantations, might, thanks to a particular war be merely middle class today.

NOT THAT I'M BITTER ABOUT IT!!

(Sharpens antique cavalry sabre, while humming 'Bonnie Blue Flag')

Anonymous ZhukovG September 01, 2016 3:23 PM  

@12 Note what tribe David Cole hails from. Interesting that he promotes ethnic cleansing.

Blogger JaimeInTexas September 01, 2016 3:28 PM  

"They follow norms of propriety."

Until the pitchforks are the only remedy then, for a little while, we become barbarians.

Blogger Jack Ward September 01, 2016 3:28 PM  

@7
Thanks. Now I can finally ask; what does those multiple parenthesis or ellipsis signify?
This is a serious question.

OpenID sigsawyer September 01, 2016 3:36 PM  

NRx is a subset of Alt-Right. I consider myself NRx, in the sense that I oppose demotism. However, a demotic WN overthrow of the current order is still preferable to the current order. The Cathedral must be purged with sword and fire, but Andrew Anglin isn't the man to carry that sword.

White Nationalism is valid in the sense that all white cultures share elements in common. A society based on only those elements is still a bland and deracinated place. Whiteness is necessary but not sufficient for Western Civ. Hence regular nationalism.

The biggest mistake the Alt-Right at large makes is assuming that politics is downstream of culture. If it was, Augustus could never have achieved the restoration that was the early empire and Germany would still be Nazi

Anonymous grey enlightenment September 01, 2016 3:38 PM  

That's mostly because I don't think NRx exists in the same material manner that the AltRight clearly does, and also because I find its preference for elevated Akademiesprache to be obscurantist faggotry, to put it in AltRight terms.

It's a college reading level, or at least 10th-grade reading level. Shouldn't be too hard for anyone of reasonable intelligence.

According to Curt’s table, NRx is middle class. Some might take offense and argue that it is upper-middle class. Sure, the leaders of NRx are likely upper-middle class, but the average NRxer is solidly middle class. Software engineering is a middle class profession. People who run teams of middle class professionals are upper-middle class (CTOs, CIOs, CEOs, Directors, etc).

see some major overgeneralizing here..all populist political movements, by definition, cater to lower class, to get more members. NRx is different from alt-right in that it rejects populism.

Anonymous Maximo Macaroni September 01, 2016 3:38 PM  

The alt-right strikes me as a warrior caste. The working class will fight for national survival when led by noble warriors. This is what frightens the middle and upper middle classes.

Blogger Brian S September 01, 2016 3:44 PM  

they sound obsessed with rigid hierarchies, I don't assume someone is stupid just because they work with their hands and/or speak plainly.

Anonymous mature craig September 01, 2016 3:46 PM  

I can dig alt right if it stays away from the racism

Anonymous Wyrd September 01, 2016 3:48 PM  

Actually, to be fair, it's considerably better than NPR managed, as NPR somehow managed to get itself so confused that it declared Milo and Allum to be the joint leaders of the AltRight, which was certainly a surprise to both of them as well as everyone else.

Everyone knows Harambe is the supreme leader of the AltRight and Putin is the King's Hand.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus September 01, 2016 3:51 PM  

NRx, Alt-Right - who cares? The more hornets we have swarming the progressives, the better.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus September 01, 2016 3:52 PM  

@22 - I consider myself NRx, in the sense that I oppose demotism.

Are you a monarchist or an aristocratist?

Anonymous VFM #6306 September 01, 2016 4:00 PM  

NRx is a dialectical addict. Very limited utility in direct combat.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus September 01, 2016 4:02 PM  

NRx is a dialectical addict. Very limited utility in direct combat.

I don't see a contradiction. The best officers are the ones who know about history, etc. and who have been taught to think. Any officer who goes into battle just wildly swinging because he thinks it makes him tough and effective is an officer who needs to be taken off the line and either retrained, or else be shot if he proves to be uneducable.

NRx are the intellectuals of the movement. Alt-Right are the foot soldiers. You need both, and can spare neither.

Blogger VD September 01, 2016 4:04 PM  

It's a college reading level, or at least 10th-grade reading level. Shouldn't be too hard for anyone of reasonable intelligence.

It's not about difficulty. I read Calvino and Eco in Italian for fun. It's about all the navel-gazing and pointless, meandering wankery.

Blogger VD September 01, 2016 4:06 PM  

NRx are the intellectuals of the movement. Alt-Right are the foot soldiers. You need both, and can spare neither.

You're missing the point. Alt-Right has its own intellectuals. It doesn't need the NRx intellectuals.

Blogger VD September 01, 2016 4:07 PM  

Now I can finally ask; what does those multiple parenthesis or ellipsis signify?

Jewish descent.

Blogger Brian S September 01, 2016 4:08 PM  

"It's not about difficulty. I read Calvino and Eco in Italian for fun. It's about all the navel-gazing and pointless, meandering wankery."

Which is why I read your blog every day and don't feel lost, even on topics that are brand new to me.

Blogger RobertT September 01, 2016 4:10 PM  

Good idea. Let's have a meaningful debate about the "the parameters of classes." I can hardly wait.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus September 01, 2016 4:12 PM  

Alt-Right has its own intellectuals.

If you say so.

Anonymous Darth Dharmakīrti September 01, 2016 4:12 PM  

I enjoyed The Dark Enlightenment but share your distaste for the masturbatory tendencies NRx tends to go in. I certainly agree with you that neither side has a monopoly on intelligent voices. And, speaking as more of a NRx type, I definitely agree that we are "more or less allies."

Where I think the difference is, right now, is in the political endgame. I think you understate the extent to which NRx-style analysis depends on/bleeds into "race realism." But as I see it NRx places at least some faith in the forms and institutions of good governance, rather than in the idea that homogeneous ethnostates (which are great!) will just figure it out for themselves. The key underlying motivation for NRx is order, and I think NRx takes seriously the idea that democracy is an inherently degenerate and chaotic (that is, anti-order) form of government, in a way that the "alt-right" does not. By extension, I think NRx types--and here I include myself--are at least in principle OK with the idea of a multi-ethnic polity, which it seems that the alt-right is not.

How this develops in the long run is anyone's guess, but at present I see NRx and alt-right representing two wings of a single movement.

Blogger VD September 01, 2016 4:17 PM  

I think NRx types--and here I include myself--are at least in principle OK with the idea of a multi-ethnic polity, which it seems that the alt-right is not.

That's why NRx is ultimately doomed. You guys are like the conservatives, clinging to ideology in a world of identity politics.

Blogger dc.sunsets September 01, 2016 4:18 PM  

My limited view is that NRx is mostly historical revisionism. Comparing it to a reactionary political movement (Alt-Right) is really apples-oranges. The only thing really in common is a form of the world "reaction." Also, both appear to say, "Look, a lot of what you've been told (and thus what you think) just ain't so."

I welcome anything that orients me toward reality. I'm frankly tired of being forced to dig past all the disinformation, propaganda and outright lies used to keep this Narrative available for certain people to milk.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus September 01, 2016 4:19 PM  

The main thing that I find less than useful about NRx is their tendency away from actually trying to make their ideas intelligible to any outside their circle. VD has a point when he describes this as navel-gazing. All the same, NRx ideas are not unimportant - indeed, if/when we find ourselves in a post-Great Reset sort of situation where we may actually have to build or rebuild societies from the ground up, their ideas may prove to be tremendously useful.

I think the main difference is more the time scale of applicability for the ideas. Alt-Right is more short-term oriented because it is dealing with real-world problems that really and truly do need to be dealt with right now. Demographics, immigration, feminism - these won't wait for decades to be dealt with. NRx, on the other hands, takes (and acts) the longer view.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus September 01, 2016 4:24 PM  

By extension, I think NRx types--and here I include myself--are at least in principle OK with the idea of a multi-ethnic polity, which it seems that the alt-right is not.

This is definitely where I'd part ways with NRx. Multiethnic polities are suicidal. Literally suicidal in that they are not capable of functioning as healthy, living, organic societies for very long. To the extent that I think we should have any immigration at all, it would involve rigourous screening of potential entrants for IQ, skills, proven industriousness, and would give preference to those who are closer to us culturally and racially, and would enforce qualitative metrics for assimilation to our culture and mores. Even then, I'd follow a "social alloying" model - immigrants would never make up more than just a few, single-digit percentages of the population just as most metallic alloys never contain more than just a tiny fraction of solute atoms in the base matrix. In short, we'd screen out everybody except for that small few who would actually enrich us across the board.

Blogger Daniel September 01, 2016 4:30 PM  

I am an alt-right inquisitor, intellectual, and - while I appreciate NRx for what it is, I owe nothing to NRx thinking. There's no action.

Anonymous Case September 01, 2016 4:33 PM  

The best definition I've found for the NRx movement calls it the Ignatius J. Riley wing of the Alt-Right.

Anonymous KitF September 01, 2016 4:35 PM  

The withering condescension for the supposedly thick (stupid, dense) working classes will always blind these patrician-minded pseudo-intellectuals to what is right in front of their faces. Screwing up their faces so as not to sully their dainty senses with the ugly smells and sights of reality doesn't make them go them away.

Those with little social capital will hang on desperately to what they have. Hewitt and Goldbore are above such mean and base considerations as having one's fragile and hard won security with its valued cultural trappings ripped away by traitors and fools. A pox on their drivel.

OpenID basementhomebrewer September 01, 2016 4:38 PM  

OT:
You tube is "demonitizing" controversial videos

That Big Fork Project keeps getting sweeter and sweeter. All the gun channels are going to need someplace to go. All the channels like Stefan and Cernovich's are going to need somewhere to go. All the gamergate channels are going to need some where to go. The big content creators are actively being disincentivized from using the service. Youtube is killing it's user base. I personally will be reporting as many music videos as possible for being "offensive".

Anonymous User September 01, 2016 4:40 PM  

I don't trust NRx because it is infected with postmodernism which means it's fundamentally out of touch with reality.

Identity is everything and that's why all reason and being is premised on it. Anything else is just LARPing.

Anonymous Darth Dharmakīrti September 01, 2016 4:44 PM  

That's why NRx is ultimately doomed. You guys are like the conservatives, clinging to ideology in a world of identity politics.

There are two problems that I have with the alt-right stance on ethnostates (which, again, I am generally a fan of).

The first is practical: what, exactly, is your plan for deporting nonwhite U.S. citizens? Do you really think you can convince a critical mass of white people to strip everyone else of citizenship rights? This is going to be much, much more difficult than getting the foreigners out of the white European ethnostates. Or are you completely banking on the dissolution of the United States as an entity? (Even in that case, the question remains: what's the plan?)

Second, I may be showing my cards here a bit too much, but let's put it this way. My father is a Southern European immigrant with an IQ three or four standard deviations above the mean, who initially came into the US on a prestigious invitation. But he's a swarthy-looking guy, and so am I, especially after I've been out in the sun for a while. My mother is Latin American, but lily-white and very proud of her Spanish heritage.

I'm not asking "what happens to MEEEE," but I am genuinely curious how you envision handling situations like swarthy-looking Southern Europeans, or more generally the tendency of people to intermarry, especially in border regions. How many white Americans are German-Irish or French-Italian? I absolutely agree with you 100% about the importance of maintaining cultural traditions but I think this is a weakness of alt-right analysis in the context of the USA specifically (again, the situation is different if you consider the European ethnostates).

More broadly, any sufficiently large polity is going to become multi-ethnic over time. Which may be a case for the city-state, but this is the point at which we start tipping into NRx-style analysis.

Blogger Noah B September 01, 2016 4:46 PM  

I didn't spend much time reading them because NRx and Dark Enlightenment felt pointless and esoteric. Alt-right fit like a glove.

Blogger VD September 01, 2016 4:53 PM  

The first is practical: what, exactly, is your plan for deporting nonwhite U.S. citizens? Do you really think you can convince a critical mass of white people to strip everyone else of citizenship rights? This is going to be much, much more difficult than getting the foreigners out of the white European ethnostates. Or are you completely banking on the dissolution of the United States as an entity? (Even in that case, the question remains: what's the plan?)

This is exactly what I mean by NRx wankery. "What's the plan? Before we do anything, WE MUST HAVE A PLAN!" Never mind that no business plan survives contact with the market and no battle plan survives contact with the enemy.

Who the fuck cares? Stop the bleeding!

We have multiple options. At one extreme, mandatory genetic testing for all and euthanize everyone who doesn't meet certain requirements. At the other, deport the illegal aliens, ban birth-citizenship, and stop all immigration from non-white countries, cross your fingers and hope there isn't any ethnic conflict among those already here.

Or do nothing and watch repeat the Yugoslav wars on a larger scale. That, too, is an option.

At this point, it is totally irrelevant what the long-term plan might be. We don't even know if the American people are sufficiently survival-oriented at this point to elect Trump.

I may be showing my cards here a bit too much, but let's put it this way.

Quelle surprise. You are curious because it touches you personally.

OpenID sigsawyer September 01, 2016 4:54 PM  

@Titus Cincinnatus

Both. "Aristocracy" literally means rule by the best. The fundamental question of society is how to find the best of us and ensure that they rule. Believing that the average working-class man is unfit to govern is different from disparaging him as stupid and worthless. Most people can act in self-interest but very few can proactively maintain a civilization. Elitism is how the finest fruits of a culture are curated and protected from (((entryism))).

NRx confidence in ruling a multi-ethnic polity is informed by the successes of the British Empire (Whig propaganda aside), and in terms of policy means absolutely nothing- it's a question on foreign empire, not domestic immigration.

Demotism cannot, by itself, restore a civilization. It's an entropic force. Restoration flows downward from the prerogative and initiative of a great man. That being said, there'd be no Augustus without the riots and unrest that wracked the late Republic. Trump isn't Augustus, he's Caesar. Augustus will come later. NRx is waiting for him- hence the inaction.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 01, 2016 4:54 PM  

I personally will be reporting as many music videos as possible for being "offensive".



Start with Beyonce. Just for the kek.

Blogger sconzey September 01, 2016 4:55 PM  

I would have said the key difference between NRx/neoreaction and the alt-right, at least the Hestia Society/Social Matter stream of neoreaction are as follows:

1. No specific policy prescriptions: if a cat catches mice, who cares if it's black or white?
2. Passivist rather than activist attitude to existing power structures:
The steel rule of passivism is the absolute renunciation of official power. [...] In case this isn't crystal-clear, the steel rule precludes, in no particular order: demonstrations, press releases, suicide bombs, lawsuits, dirty bombs, Facebook campaigns, clean bombs, mimeographed leaflets, robbing banks, interning at nonprofits, assassination, "tea parties," journalism, bribery, grantwriting, graffiti, crypto-anarchism, balaclavas, lynching, campaign contributions, revolutionary cells, new political parties, old political parties, flash mobs, botnets, sit-ins, direct mail, monkeywrenching, and any other activist technique, violent or harmless, legal or illegal, fashionable or despicable.
3. Inward, rather than outward focus:
I. Become worthy.
II. Accept power.

3a. In practice, this is the alt-right tactic of building parallel institutions:
Persuade a small group of high-quality people to come to your way of thinking, build institutions that humbly solve problems, and eventually build a larger network of institutions that could actually step in and do a better job than the current system.

I would have said that NRx and the alt-right are fellow-travellers. NRx admires the alt-right's goals in building a more lawful society, but NRx reads old books and knows how all this has happened before and all of this will happen again and Reagan and Thatcher only enabled the excesses of Clinton (I) and Blair.

We will at least, unlike the moderates, get out of your way.

OpenID sigsawyer September 01, 2016 4:58 PM  

@46

If identity is everything, how did a Norman aristocracy lead a Saxon-Briton polity into English identity, world empire, and cultural eminence?

I trust you're not stupid enough to accuse me of being a multiculturalist in your response.

Anonymous Case September 01, 2016 4:59 PM  

@47

At this point the primary goal of the Alt-Right isn't the establishment of an exclusively Caucasian culture. It's to prevent the elimination of Caucasian culture,...as well as the Caucasians who inhabit it.


Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 01, 2016 5:04 PM  

The first is practical: what, exactly, is your plan for deporting nonwhite U.S. citizens?

Step 0: elect Trump and see what can be done.

After that, reassess the situation and see what can be done.

This kind of "what's your PLAN" anal-obsessed-detail-fetish is why I ignore the NRx, because I can't stand Moldbuggery. Imagine a fighter pilot in the air over a hot zone, is he supposed to plan out every single freaking possible maneuver?

No! Fly the plane is what he does.
Observer, Orient, Decide, Act. Then Observe.

Vox summed it up:

It's about all the navel-gazing and pointless, meandering wankery."

Except I would have written "meandering Moldbuggering wankery" but that's just me.

Anonymous Darth Dharmakīrti September 01, 2016 5:07 PM  

At one extreme, mandatory genetic testing for all and euthanize everyone who doesn't meet certain requirements...

Quelle surprise. You are curious because it touches you personally.


Maybe this is just your style, and it's true I'm just some random guy who is appearing on your blog and, however lightly, raising some critiques. Still, it's hard for me to understand the somewhat hostile tone here.

Because let's be real. I take your point here to be that identity trumps ideology, and I agree to a large extent. Indeed, as things stand, despite my status as a "mixed-race mongrel," and even my nominally Hispanic status, when the race-war comes I will be fighting for the White team. (It helps that I am White according to the SJWs). I am an ideological and military ally.

But all that goes out the window if I am faced with euthanization. Surely you must understand this. I guess I'd be OK with repatriation to my father's Southern European country of origin--it helps that my wife is the same ethnicity and from that same country--but again: I have no mestizo or African blood and an IQ higher than my father's. Do you really want me gone?

Blogger Rusty Fife September 01, 2016 5:07 PM  

Darth Dharmakīrti wrote:I enjoyed The Dark Enlightenment but share your distaste for the masturbatory tendencies NRx tends to go in. I certainly agree with you that neither side has a monopoly on intelligent voices. And, speaking as more of a NRx type, I definitely agree that we are "more or less allies."

Where I think the difference is, right now, is in the political endgame. I think you understate the extent to which NRx-style analysis depends on/bleeds into "race realism." But as I see it NRx places at least some faith in the forms and institutions of good governance, rather than in the idea that homogeneous ethnostates (which are great!) will just figure it out for themselves. The key underlying motivation for NRx is order, and I think NRx takes seriously the idea that democracy is an inherently degenerate and chaotic (that is, anti-order) form of government, in a way that the "alt-right" does not. By extension, I think NRx types--and here I include myself--are at least in principle OK with the idea of a multi-ethnic polity, which it seems that the alt-right is not.

How this develops in the long run is anyone's guess, but at present I see NRx and alt-right representing two wings of a single movement.


So it's like the D&D alignment system?
- NRx = Lawful Evil*
- Alt-right = Chaotic Evil

*for some definitions of Evil.

Anonymous Darth Dharmakīrti September 01, 2016 5:10 PM  

So it's like the D&D alignment system?
- NRx = Lawful Evil*
- Alt-right = Chaotic Evil


Haha. I like this. And yes, there's a reason I chose the moniker I did.

Anonymous DissidentRight September 01, 2016 5:14 PM  

NRx = Dialectic
Alt Right = Rhetoric backed by dialectic

Blogger sconzey September 01, 2016 5:15 PM  

Rusty Fife wrote:So it's like the D&D alignment system?
- NRx = Lawful Evil*
- Alt-right = Chaotic Evil

*for some definitions of Evil.


Yeah, pretty much, and only NRx sees this as a problem.

Anonymous 5343 September 01, 2016 5:18 PM  

But all that goes out the window if I am faced with euthanization.

I won't presume to speak for our host, but bear in mind that in laying out such a possibility, he is very likely simply delineating how things might well transpire, not what he wishes personally to occur.

Anonymous cheddarman September 01, 2016 5:24 PM  

Using Frog memes and crude rhetoric appeals to 95% of most men. The "Soccer hooligan" cut of the bell curve seems the most likely to actually stand up and defend their nations as we have seen so far in Europe.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 01, 2016 5:26 PM  

But all that goes out the window if I am faced with euthanization.

Description is not the same thing as proscription.

Blogger Robert Divinity September 01, 2016 5:27 PM  

More broadly, any sufficiently large polity is going to become multi-ethnic over time.

China, Japan, and the Koreas would like a word with you.

Blogger Frank September 01, 2016 5:28 PM  

Vox, have you read Moldbug? Do you have a post critiquing him?

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 01, 2016 5:29 PM  

The NRX loop:

Observe, observe, observe, orient, observe, orient, observe, orient, deci....observe, observe, orient.

OODA is not in NRx's vocabulary. Get to "A"? Are you mad?

Blogger Escoffier September 01, 2016 5:33 PM  

Or shorter Alt-right: come for the riots stay for the thinks!

Blogger RobertT September 01, 2016 5:34 PM  

My twitter experience leads me to believe that everyone in the alt right has the ability to think critically out of the box. Nobody in the traditional conservative elite has that ability.

Blogger RobertT September 01, 2016 5:34 PM  

My twitter experience leads me to believe that everyone in the alt right has the ability to think critically out of the box. Nobody in the traditional conservative elite has that ability.

Anonymous Darth Dharmakīrti September 01, 2016 5:35 PM  

China, Japan, and the Koreas would like a word with you.

Er, what? China is an Imperial power and has been for millennia. The Han are the most numerous by far but China is pretty much the definition of a multi-ethnic imperium, especially since the conquest of Tibet. Chinese territorial expansion has always meant the imposition of Han cultural and linguistic norms on the indigenous population, which is pretty much the model of NRx multi-ethnic empire, at least as I understand it.

As for the other two, Japan has been confined to an archipelago, and Korea to a peninsula, for centuries. Japan's brief flirtation with military expansion created a de facto multi-ethnic empire as well, and its dissolution was brought about by intervention from a hostile foreign power (the USA), not the domination of the Manchurians by the Japanese.

Blogger Anonymous-9 September 01, 2016 5:36 PM  

I KNOW THIS SOUND AND SMELL: Eggheads who pledge allegiance yet stand apart. They plot to assume power. They can't wait to rule over those with the testosterone they don't have. Vox is correct, ALT-Right has its own intellectuals. Beware the infiltration.

Anonymous cheddarman September 01, 2016 5:37 PM  

Intersting that the only part of the country that is solid for Trump and repelling the immivasion is the Old South and parts of the US that are outside of the historic south but within the Scotts-Irish belt. That seems to include Kentucky, Southern Missouri, West Virginia and the southern portions of Ohio, Indiana and Illinois. The Yankee cucks are as of yet too afraid of being called racist to vote for the survival of their culture and people.

Blogger Anonymous-9 September 01, 2016 5:38 PM  

PS, to 71. Don't alienate them. Give them their own little rubber room to play in. Never give them power.

Blogger Robert Divinity September 01, 2016 5:43 PM  

@Darth Dharmakīrti

Surely you aren't arguing the collapsed East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere made Japan a large polity that became multi-ethnic over time? That Korea is someone a large polity that became multi-ethnic over time? That the aggressive Chinese program to eradicate minorities in favor of the Han will make it multi-ethnic over time?

Blogger Escoffier September 01, 2016 5:43 PM  

About ten years ago I was given a forcible lesson in the power of low class humor in a political setting. I was doing a small blog dedicated to illegal immigration in Chicago which ultimately morphed into a race realist blog. I was kind of known for crass humor and silliness.

While we were doing the illegal immigration blog a friend of ours wanted to run for Congress. She hit us up for money and we said don't got no money but we'll help with your campaign.

Being para-professional bloggers we were eons ahead of most in terms of tech savvy and, for instance, people were blown away by the website we did and our use of twitter real time. Against all expectations she won the Republican primary at which point the locally funded outlet of Soros's house of open borders and progressivism kicked into gear suing her for false signatures and anything else they could to get her off the ballot.

Being fully accredited members of the Soros house of open borders and progressivism they were needless to say offered as much op-ed space as they desired from the local newsrags. We never missed an opportunity to mock them and their absent logic.

At the government office where the ballot signatures were to be inspected we got to meet the head of this group. He knew exactly who we were, by name, which was a little creepy. And he referred to us as 'the funny ones.'

And then for full mind blow he offered us an extremely well paid position with Soros inc.

All in all a very illuminating life experience.

Blogger Nate September 01, 2016 5:50 PM  

Moldbug gets on my damn nerves. Always has.

Blogger Nate September 01, 2016 5:50 PM  

Moldbug gets on my damn nerves. Always has.

Anonymous Darth Dharmakīrti September 01, 2016 5:56 PM  

@Robert Divinity

I believe we are speaking somewhat past each other. I am saying that neither archipelagic Japan nor peninsular Korea reaches the threshold of being "large enough" to precipitate eventually becoming multi-ethnic. And that, on an evolutionary timescale, regional variations in Han language and culture will create distinct ethnicities. This is arguably already the case if you consider Fujian and Cantonese identities, etc.

OpenID neocolonial September 01, 2016 5:57 PM  

NRx and the Alt Right have very distinct approaches. The Alt Right is a broad community of those who see the problems that are facing themselves and others - as well as the problems coming down the pipe - and are acting in the manner necessary to address those issues. NRx on the other hand is looking at the historical and structural causes of those problems, and how things might be arranged so that they do not occur again.

Alternatively you could say that our purposes are aligned but the time scales involved are different.

This distinction leads to quite marked differences in approach. The Alt Right is a bold, broad based group that is up front and in the face of the SJW's and the mainstream. NRx is quite content being in the background and going unnoticed, and actively raises barriers of required effort and ability and likemindedness to participating in their work.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 01, 2016 6:00 PM  

Another thing about the NRx is the constant LARPing about monarchy. You'd think that smart people who know a lot about history would have a clue how monarchy came to be the standard and why it went away. Apparently you'd be wrong.

It doesn't surprise me that Curtis Yarvin has created a computing platform called Urbit. The kind of detail oriented anal-retentive thinking that he is good at works well in computing, computability, languages, architectures.

The problem arises when that mindset is applied to a culture, a society, a nation. Because nations are organic things, more like a forest, or garden, or meadow, or even a desert, than they are like a finite-state automata. Organic things like forests can benefit from some planning but there's no way to plan out each individual seedling, vine, grass stem, etc. nor should one bother.

There's an analogy about invasive species to be made here, but otra dia.

Similarly, insisting on mechanistic perfection in a society is not just ignorant, it is foolish and dangerous. Because humans are not state machines, for a start.

Blogger Robert Divinity September 01, 2016 6:08 PM  

I believe we are speaking somewhat past each other. I am saying that neither archipelagic Japan nor peninsular Korea reaches the threshold of being "large enough" to precipitate eventually becoming multi-ethnic.

You don't think factors other than geography account for the homogeneity of Japan and Korean? Hint: they do.

And that, on an evolutionary timescale, regional variations in Han language and culture will create distinct ethnicities. This is arguably already the case if you consider Fujian and Cantonese identities, etc.

While you are on more solid ground with China, time isn't on the side of the ethnic minorities there as government policy is to promote the Han and displace and miscegenate out of existence the more troublesome. This is already evident in Tibet and Xingjiang.

Anonymous User September 01, 2016 6:17 PM  

You raise a great point because NRx is deeply shaped by the typical professional deformations of the computer programmer.

Anonymous patrick kelly September 01, 2016 6:25 PM  

"Japan's brief flirtation with military expansion created a de facto multi-ethnic empire "

Uh... the other "ethnics" in that empire were never going to be considered Japanese or be treated like Japanese by the Japanese.

OpenID basementhomebrewer September 01, 2016 6:30 PM  

A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents wrote: I personally will be reporting as many music videos as possible for being "offensive".



Start with Beyonce. Just for the kek.


Of course! My plan really is to hit every video hosted my vevo or fueled by Ramen. If we take down the popular music channels the SJWs will take care of the rest of the popular channels for us (guns, political commentary, pranks, Mens sports etc.)

Blogger Were-Puppy September 01, 2016 6:33 PM  

@45 basementhomebrewer

OT:
You tube is "demonitizing" controversial videos

That Big Fork Project keeps getting sweeter and sweeter. All the gun channels are going to need someplace to go. All the channels like Stefan and Cernovich's are going to need somewhere to go. All the gamergate channels are going to need some where to go. The big content creators are actively being disincentivized from using the service. Youtube is killing it's user base. I personally will be reporting as many music videos as possible for being "offensive".
---

I bet Razorfist is on the hitlist ... I'm going to watch some of his videos later before they get him too.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 01, 2016 6:38 PM  

@78
@81

I'll just leave this here. Yeah, I know it's Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_South_Korea

Anonymous Gedrin September 01, 2016 6:39 PM  

Google search of NRx suggests we're talking about new prescription medication. Why do you people hate medicine?

(What is NRx?)

Blogger Were-Puppy September 01, 2016 6:40 PM  

@56 Darth Dharmakīrti

But all that goes out the window if I am faced with euthanization.
---

Vox is not being hostile. He would also be euthanized in that same scenario he described for you.

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 01, 2016 6:41 PM  

NRx is good at describing, bad at prescribing.

Blogger Were-Puppy September 01, 2016 6:42 PM  

@57 Rusty Fife

So it's like the D&D alignment system?
- NRx = Lawful Evil*
- Alt-right = Chaotic Evil

*for some definitions of Evil.
---

Cool - I need to settle into the alt right.
I'm still neutral-evil.

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 01, 2016 6:42 PM  

Gedrin wrote:Google search of NRx suggests we're talking about new prescription medication. Why do you people hate medicine?

(What is NRx?)


Neoreaction. See Mencius Moldbug, Nick Land, and other blogs within two clicks.

Blogger Bradford Walker September 01, 2016 6:50 PM  

The firearms channels already have Full30 as their backup, and most upload there first before YouTube now. They're ready for this, having anticipated its occurrence well in advance. I expect many other savvy channels likewise have backups ready (Razorfist uploads to Dailymotion, for example.) The porn world has a network of video sites already; they never needed YouTube.

Now, given that, figuring out short and long term moves to diversify from YouTube already has a handful of viable examples in existence. The trick is telling normies what they are, and telling users what their options are (and then how to act on them).

Blogger frigger611 September 01, 2016 7:01 PM  

I give Yarvin some credit for the whole red pill/blue pill thing in the manosphere, he's obviously brilliant,

but the endless meanderings do get tedious.

What you said was pure genius, "I find its preference for elevated Akademiesprache to be obscurantist faggotry"

Moldbug's corpus opus really distills down into "Hey, wait a minute! Global Bolshevism maybe isn't such a great idea after all! I have reviewed the evidence and it's a disaster! It's quite possible that the old dead white guys were right!"

And I was all like... "yeah, no shit, Sherlock."

I resented that (((YArvin))) described the evil leftist hivemind as "The Cathedral" as it a standard of Western Civ beauty in architecture. I think a much better term would have been "Temple."

I do however like the moniker "Dark Enlightenment." Has a certain ring of awakening a power you shoulda left alone and not poked with a stick for centuries.

Anonymous Gedrin September 01, 2016 7:08 PM  

@91 Thank you, will do

Blogger Alex Yiannopoulos September 01, 2016 7:19 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Darth Dharmakīrti September 01, 2016 7:21 PM  

@81

You don't think factors other than geography account for the homogeneity of Japan and Korean? Hint: they do.

Please--no sarcasm here--enlighten me. What other factors do you mean?

While you are on more solid ground with China, time isn't on the side of the ethnic minorities there as government policy is to promote the Han and displace and miscegenate out of existence the more troublesome. This is already evident in Tibet and Xingjiang.

I am hopeful that Tibet will eventually emerge, and to the extent that it emerges as an ethnostate, it should be alt right-friendly. But, refining my thoughts as I'm writing them, I suppose I'm making two points. One is that China as both historically and currently constituted is a multi-ethnic Empire, and that this is unlikely to change even with current policies re: ethnic minorities in place. The second is that the cultural and linguistic differences across the wide geographic area inhabited by the Han themselves are liable to create distinct Han sub-ethnicities.

@83

Uh... the other "ethnics" in that empire were never going to be considered Japanese or be treated like Japanese by the Japanese.

Which was bad for those ethnics, but doesn't cut against my point that territorial expansion inexorably leads to a multi-ethnic character.

Anonymous old man in a villa September 01, 2016 7:31 PM  

sigsawyer wrote:If identity is everything, how did a Norman aristocracy lead a Saxon-Briton polity into English identity, world empire, and cultural eminence?

Prima nocte

Blogger Robert Divinity September 01, 2016 7:32 PM  

Please--no sarcasm here--enlighten me. What other factors do you mean?

Government policies. For example, to my knowledge the indigenous Ainu in addition to multi-generational Koreans are not afforded Japanese citizenship. Along with these contemporary measures, foreigners and foreign culture were routinely expelled from Korea and Japan throughout their histories.


Which was bad for those ethnics, but doesn't cut against my point that territorial expansion inexorably leads to a multi-ethnic character.

Now you help me out. Your original claim was "any sufficiently large polity is going to become multi-ethnic over time." Did you mean due to size or imperial conquest? It comes across as trimming, to be blunt, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Frankly, you would be on more solid ground if you had exerted the opposite: all large heterogeneous polities eventually become smaller homogenous polities (which while not absolute is the more likely outcome of the two).

Anonymous Jack Hinson September 01, 2016 7:37 PM  

@66 or Paradigm,

So you are saying that the cucks are like General McClellan...



Anonymous Darth Dharmakīrti September 01, 2016 7:45 PM  

Along with these contemporary measures, foreigners and foreign culture were routinely expelled from Korea and Japan throughout their histories.

I think what I'm saying is that these kinds of expulsions are a lot easier to accomplish if you have natural boundaries circumscribing a relatively compact geographic area.

Did you mean due to size or imperial conquest?

Why is this an either/or? The way I see it, competition for limited resources will always create conflict between polities. (This is one of the many reasons why a polity without borders is a contradiction in terms.) Polities will therefore always look to expand their territory and influence, whether by peaceful expansion into unoccupied land, or violent expansion into occupied land. Over time, this creates the heterogeneity that ultimately leads to partition.

Also, what is "trimming"? Whatever it is, it sounds bad. For what it's worth, any inconsistencies in my thought or presentation here are artifacts of the fact that I'm still working out what I think about all this.

Anonymous Jack Hinson September 01, 2016 7:53 PM  

Darth,

Trimming is what the world is doing to whites.

Jack

Blogger Unknown September 01, 2016 7:53 PM  

Darth Dharmakīrti wrote:The first is practical: what, exactly, is your plan for deporting nonwhite U.S. citizens? Do you really think you can convince a critical mass of white people to strip everyone else of citizenship rights? This is going to be much, much more difficult than getting the foreigners out of the white European ethnostates. Or are you completely banking on the dissolution of the United States as an entity? (Even in that case, the question remains: what's the plan?

How about this: Get to the point that White Nationalists control social norms. People who are comfortable with that hang out, on WN terms, while those who aren't comfy find other places to be, under their own power. Not all non-whites leave, not all whites stay, but those who stay either are white, or make it clear they're trying to pass as white. It probably wouldn't be stable for the long term, but it sounds like a plausible, peaceful way to transition to a stable state. Don't ask me how we take that first step.

Anonymous tublecane September 01, 2016 7:57 PM  

"I have nothing against MArx"

Aren't they anti-democrats? I'm not familiar with that term, specifically, but if they are synonymous with the Dark Enlightenment, then they must be. This site, as I understand it, is pro-democracy, at least in some form. Right?

You'll have to fight eventually. Or maybe not, since neoreaction will never be a viable political force. Not that it doesn't have virtue on its side. But theoretically, you have that against them.

Blogger Robert Divinity September 01, 2016 7:58 PM  

Why is this an either/or?

Because if a large polity can remain a homogenous, ethno-state, it would seem to contradict your earlier claim. Even imperial expansion that keeps the dominated peoples separate in the conquered territory and away from the ethnostate homeland would undercut that assertion, to think it through some more myself.


Also, what is "trimming"?

Modifying a claim to support or "win" an argument.

For what it's worth, any inconsistencies in my thought or presentation here are artifacts of the fact that I'm still working out what I think about all this.

You know what they say about consistency.

Anonymous tublecane September 01, 2016 7:59 PM  

@103-I don't know why, but autocorrect put "NRx" as "MArx." That's creepy.

Blogger Robert Divinity September 01, 2016 8:00 PM  

Darth,

Trimming is what the world is doing to whites.

Jack


That's probably the better definition.

Anonymous tublecane September 01, 2016 8:04 PM  

@8-I didn't find Moldbug to be very jewy, though he did defend Israel and go out of his way to argue against the Joo Conspiracy and uphold the veracity of the Holocaust. Unless you just mean he was overly intellectual and talky.

Blogger VD September 01, 2016 8:11 PM  

Maybe this is just your style, and it's true I'm just some random guy who is appearing on your blog and, however lightly, raising some critiques. Still, it's hard for me to understand the somewhat hostile tone here.

Because I find predictable, self-serving people whose primary interest in discussing macrosocietal issues to be how they might be affected to be both tedious and irrelevant.

Because let's be real. I take your point here to be that identity trumps ideology, and I agree to a large extent. Indeed, as things stand, despite my status as a "mixed-race mongrel," and even my nominally Hispanic status, when the race-war comes I will be fighting for the White team. (It helps that I am White according to the SJWs). I am an ideological and military ally.

Good. I'm in pretty much the same boat.

But all that goes out the window if I am faced with euthanization. Surely you must understand this. I guess I'd be OK with repatriation to my father's Southern European country of origin--it helps that my wife is the same ethnicity and from that same country--but again: I have no mestizo or African blood and an IQ higher than my father's. Do you really want me gone?

What does this have to do with what I want? See, that's sort of stupid shit that I can't stand. I don't give a quantum of a damn about you. I don't even care about me in the context of this discussion. I'm not talking about you. I'm not talking about me. Neither of us are the topic here.

Anyhow, if you want to avoid one of the nightmare scenarios, then you should work harder for the Alt Right's success than anyone. Civilized ethno-nationalism is considerably better than ethnic war, particularly frightened ethno-nationalism that feels its backs are up against the wall. It's not an accident that the Endlosung finally began in late 1941, once the Nazis realized they were probably going to lose the war.

Anonymous tublecane September 01, 2016 8:11 PM  

@15-I don't want to make the "communism hasn't really been tried yet" argument. But the conservative movement didn't stand athwart history yelling, "Stop!" That's merely what they said. What they actually did was stand by the side of the road as the parade went by, whispering, "Beg your pardon, but will please mind the speed limit. Much obliged."

Not that standing athwart history would work. But I don't know what to do instead, properly. Is it "the future belongs to us?"

Blogger VD September 01, 2016 8:13 PM  

China is not very "multi-ethnic". It is 91.6 percent Han and the Han population is growing as a percentage of the population, up from 91.5 percent in 2000.

The USA would be in vastly better shape if it was 91 percent white.

Anonymous tublecane September 01, 2016 8:18 PM  

@108-What final solution?

Anonymous Gordian September 01, 2016 8:27 PM  

I see the NRxers as unconsciously performing the task of Albert Jay Nock's "remnant." Nock predicts the fall of Western Civ and argues that a few academics need to perform the role of the monasteries during the fall of Rome, namely to collect and protect the knowledge from the last age.

So, yeah, the NRxers do a lot of navel-gazing and obscure academic obscurantist faggotry. When the smoke settles, however, you've got a vault of treasures from the last age and the seed corn for the intellectual renaissance of the new age. The monks like Joachim of Fiora thought they were going to rule the new world order, too, but it ended up being the Germanic nobility who ruled. I'm still glad the monks were there, however.

Blogger Unknown September 01, 2016 8:43 PM  

The Alt-Right may have talent, brains and courage, but this(?):

the AltRight is, despite its exuberant vulgarity, every bit as intellectually formidable as NRx.

You're kidding, right? There's a 10-20 IQ gap at least. The NRx is Gandalf compared to the AR's soldiers of Gondor. Kshatriya you may be, but Brahmin you most certainly are not. When you started blogging all those years ago you showed you could be, but then you looked through the glass darkly and saw what looked like the Holy Way but wasn't. Now you've become a hungry and dangerous lion, devouring anyone who isn't as bloodyminded as you. No lion or dangerous beast is on the Holy Way. It's not too late to get back on it. Nearly, but not yet.

Anonymous Roundtine September 01, 2016 8:46 PM  

I resented that (((YArvin))) described the evil leftist hivemind as "The Cathedral" as it a standard of Western Civ beauty in architecture. I think a much better term would have been "Temple."

The Cathedral is more appropriate if you are talking to normies because everyone knows the meme about the Catholic Church being in charge. The left has become a bunch of religious zealots with greater control over society than the Catholic Church had.

Also, the seeds of progressivism are there long before Jews showed up. Jews brought Bolshevism and ethnic tribalism, and joined into the movement, but whites were already there. To my knowledge the Jews weren't behind the War of Northern Aggression.

Anonymous Jack Hinson September 01, 2016 8:51 PM  

@113 or Unknown,

That is your problem, you are elitist. Fight in the fourth generation. There is no need for high IQ or leaders. Research 4GW and understand the cause...How many times has the US killed the number 2 Al-Qaeda/Taliban/ISIS leader.

Jack

Jack

Anonymous Darth Dharmakīrti September 01, 2016 8:53 PM  

@VD

What does this have to do with what I want?

I understand why you think I have made myself the topic of conversation here, and I apologize to the extent that I have, but I was really only using my case to illustrate a point.

"What you want," as I understand it, are single-ethnicity polities. What I'm saying is that this idea works a lot better in Europe than in the USA, because White identity in the USA is tied to a complex of European ethnicities rather than to any single one. (My understanding is that mixed German-Irish are the single largest ethnic bloc in the USA). I'm also saying that even within certain European ethnic groups, perhaps most paradigmatically those in Southern Europe, there is a fair degree of variation from the Northern/Western European mold. But you're simply not going to convince me that e.g. Spain and Greece and Italy are not White, European nations. And this brings me back to my original point, the reason I brought up my own background, that a multi-ethnic (though not necessarily a multi-racial) USA seems unavoidable, particularly if we consider it as an extension of White Christendom.

Maybe the solution here is a somewhat expansive definition of White nationalism, along the lines suggested by Unknown @102.

Anonymous Darth Dharmakīrti September 01, 2016 9:03 PM  

@Robert Divinity

Because if a large polity can remain a homogenous, ethno-state, it would seem to contradict your earlier claim. Even imperial expansion that keeps the dominated peoples separate in the conquered territory and away from the ethnostate homeland would undercut that assertion, to think it through some more myself.

That's a mighty big "if." Historically, language change over time (and thus ethnic composition over time, to the extent that culture = language) is unavoidable. The wider the area, the more change, and the more extreme the changes from one end to the other. Technology has definitely mitigated this process somewhat in recent decades, but if e.g. people in Massachusetts stay in Massachusetts while people in California stay in California, over a long enough period of time I would expect them to form distinct ethnicities, even if there's a large degree of cultural uniformity.

You know what they say about consistency.

Indeed!

Blogger Rusty Fife September 01, 2016 9:08 PM  

tublecane wrote:@108-What final solution?

Obtuse troll is obtuse.

Anonymous ashv September 01, 2016 9:27 PM  

The main thing that gets overlooked about Moldbug is that he was writing to members of the establishment and people aligned with them, trying to get them to change to a non-insane ideology without trying to convince them they had to be like those proles in Middle America they find so disgusting. So the meandering and hoity-toity tone was likely part of the package to allow exploration of forbidden ideas without triggering what Orwell called "crimestop".

The biggest divide between what Moldbug was after and what the alt-right is pursuing is that Moldbug believed that liberalism (i.e. classical liberalism, the progenitor of every viable political ideology in the 20th century from anarcho-capitalism to Marxism) was responsible for the growth of political chaos in the last few centuries, and needs to be thrown out entirely, whereas pretty much all of the alt-right accepts it.

Personally I think the rise of President Golden Pepe and the memes that follow in his wake are fantastic. But they're a means to rout the current gang of SJWs and cucks, not a better foundation to build on. Remember that nationalism swept Europe once before, and back then it was a left-wing movement. We don't have to stop there on our journey rightward.

Blogger VD September 01, 2016 9:29 PM  

You're kidding, right? There's a 10-20 IQ gap at least.

Perhaps one of these days I'll debate one of your NRx Brahmins and we'll see which way the gap lies.

Blogger VD September 01, 2016 9:30 PM  

"What you want," as I understand it, are single-ethnicity polities.

The American nationalism will be white, it will not be proper European-style nationalism.

Blogger Student in Blue September 01, 2016 9:36 PM  

All the really, actually smart people I've come across don't need to use overly-complex word salad in order to try and make their point.

Just food for thought, NRx people.

Anonymous Jack Hinson September 01, 2016 9:46 PM  

All,

In my experience, if you really understand something complex then, and only then, you can teach someone. That is the true test of a master at his craft. Teach a complex subject in basic terms.

Jack

Blogger The Kurgan September 01, 2016 9:58 PM  

NRx are insufferable wankers that THINK they are smarter... Like their progressive cousins, they are not.
They are just further along the autistic spectrum.

Blogger Jon M September 01, 2016 10:02 PM  

"In my experience, if you really understand something complex then, and only then, you can teach someone. That is the true test of a master at his craft. Teach a complex subject in basic terms."

Hence the hidden power of the meme army. The best soldiers in it teach complicated lessons even to people who resist learning them.

Blogger Doom September 01, 2016 10:02 PM  

Ah, this. Now I am sure, for the moment, I am alt-right.

Unknown,

Lions? Christ is the greatest of these. He was rejected by the Jews for NOT being The Lion in that time. They falsely understood prophecy, thinking He would both sacrifice to save and destroyer of the enemy (if more an earthly enemy, the Romans) in one fell swoop. All of Jesus that is left in the return is that of the roaring lion. Those who seek peace, the meek, you(?), will inherit the earth. Or they are the minions of Satan and work with his heir. No other choices.

As to IQ, I really do believe you are a fool. Even if it were true, which it isn't, your gay levity of elocution and diction are no more than a falseness to hide within. To speak in such a manner as to be meaningfully misunderstood as a lark on the hearer or reader, or cute, to prove one's erudite status, is petty. A foul use of intellect. It also shows a fear of being understood and debated. Even Christ suggested selling cloaks to buy swords. Have you any swords in your ranks? What you have is neither engineering nor scientific, and without action, useless. And, yet, I deny your IQ advantage regardless.

OpenID neocolonial September 01, 2016 10:12 PM  

VD wrote:You're kidding, right? There's a 10-20 IQ gap at least.

Perhaps one of these days I'll debate one of your NRx Brahmins and we'll see which way the gap lies.


Firstly, while a debate may be able to be arranged, although it would need to serve a distinct purpose. Secondly, any one suggesting that NRx is overflowing with intellects notably greater than VD is talking out of their arse. The advantage NRx has is that by its nature there is no need to retain midwits, nor those unable to work together constructively.

Blogger Robert Divinity September 01, 2016 10:22 PM  

That's a mighty big "if." Historically, language change over time (and thus ethnic composition over time, to the extent that culture = language) is unavoidable. The wider the area, the more change, and the more extreme the changes from one end to the other. Technology has definitely mitigated this process somewhat in recent decades, but if e.g. people in Massachusetts stay in Massachusetts while people in California stay in California, over a long enough period of time I would expect them to form distinct ethnicities, even if there's a large degree of cultural uniformity.

The Japanese have several dialects and I can't imagine a more homogenous society. A large enough degree of cultural uniformity is homogeneity. Obviously those Japanese dialects predate technology that would have mitigated their development but it didn't result in a heterogeneous nation.

The assertion a large polity eventually will become multi-ethnic simply doesn't fly. If the differences between California and Massachusetts become too great they will become separate, smaller polities and frankly this is happening now.

Anonymous Jack Hinson September 01, 2016 10:26 PM  

Neocolonial,

BOOOORRRRING!!!!

Jack

Blogger ZhukovG September 01, 2016 10:27 PM  

NRx appear to see themselves as some sort of aristocracy. However they appear well on the way to ending up as little more than Imperial Bureaucrats; performing clerical duties for the Warrior Daimyos of the Alt-Right

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 01, 2016 10:33 PM  

@116
"What you want," as I understand it, are single-ethnicity polities.

No, you do not understand. VD is not proscribing in this case, it's not about what he wants. He is describing what is very likely.

By analogy, we are standing on top of a dam holding back a huge lake. Vox is pointing to cracks in the dam near the spillway and saying, "If water isn't drained out of this dam soon, the whole thing will break" and you are bleating "What? What? Why do you want the dam to break?". What he wants or does not want is irrelevant, the water is high and the dam is crumbling.

Descriptive. Not proscriptive. Got it?

And if I'm wrong, VD will correct me.

Blogger ace September 01, 2016 10:39 PM  

Mr.MantraMan wrote:Talks like a fag and his shit is all retarded

I nearly spit my cheap pinot all over this laptop.

Tell you the truth I don't really care if someone thinks they're above me as long as they're on my side. I can't really deny the charge of being working class either.

Anonymous Jonathan September 01, 2016 11:30 PM  

@ VD

This is exactly what I mean by NRx wankery. "What's the plan? Before we do anything, WE MUST HAVE A PLAN!"

This comes from the realization that things are going to probably get a lot worse before they get better. The sentiments expressed are about trying to take the edge of the "getting worse" part. It is beside the point but that does not mean it is not understandable.

As honesty is the best policy I am up-front that there will be a whole shitload of misery before things are set aright. For people who have this worry I have one response: trust in Jesus.

Blogger Groot September 01, 2016 11:44 PM  

OP: "stop pontificating, shut up, and meme"

Better yet, completely sidestep the periphrastic onanism and code. As our demographics "go dark," save this post-Constitutional empty shell by cryptographically "going dark."

Blogger Chris B September 01, 2016 11:53 PM  

Nrx has dissolved in merely being anti-democracy whilst the alt-right is pro-democracy - that is the only meaningful definition. Within the neoreaction area, you have numerous amorphous groups pressing conceptions of anti-democracy liberalism (it is all premised on locke, Hobbes etc.) but it is still liberalism. The alt-right being pro-democracy is quite clearly liberal. By liberal, I am referring to the liberal tradition (again, Hobbes, Locke, Mill etc.) Your 16 points for example are resolutely in the liberal tradition, and even stray into Wilsonianism strangely enough.
The Alt-right can then be seen as less dissonant than neoreaction in that the denial of democracy whilst maintaining liberal underpinnings is more incoherent than retaining democracy whilst maintaining liberal underpinnings.
What is odd about neoreaction, is that the first thinker they claim influence from (Moldbug) dropped liberalism like a stone, and took up the arguments of absolutists such as Filmer. At present, there are only a handful of thinkers following this line of thinking (myself included.)
I would say that the alt right, and your points, are compatible with neoreaction as per the Hestia society and Liberal neoreaction as based on the xenosystems blog. It is not directly compatible with absolutist thinking which has derived from Moldbug, but it is in an indirect way. The reason I say in an indirect way is that your points, and other programs for the alt-right, implicitly demand an absolutist state which is tightly controlled, regimented and coherent in its goals and actions. Democracy cannot achieve this, but the idea of taking up absolutism has been verboten since the 16th century, so this realization has been cut off from you.

Anonymous tublecane September 02, 2016 12:30 AM  

@123-You say that, but go read Carlyle, one of them he heroes of neoreaction. Now, I wish he would get to the damn point, and his method is not my favorite. Too much indirection. But he is a great prose stylist and a great thinker. He's difficult partly on purpose, partly because it was a different time, partly because of the education gap (in the oldtimers' favor).

If you can penetrate the style, he has thrown idea on top of idea on top of idea, in close succession and overlapping. It's not just hot air. Read "Latter-Day Pamphlets."

Neoreactionaries like Moldbug are going for that, kind of indirection, mostly through humor. But they're not that good at it, so there's a lot of hot air. There are, or were, masters at it. We don't all have to write like we're Jack Webb.

Anonymous tublecane September 02, 2016 12:31 AM  

@135-them he = the

Blogger Anchorman September 02, 2016 12:35 AM  

FFS, who cares?

It's not a dick measuring contest. This is the trap that stalls so much momentum

Fight the godless Left and its useful idiots.

Anonymous tublecane September 02, 2016 12:47 AM  

@135-I don't get your distinction between neoreaction and the alt-right. What is the alt-right but the alternative right? Meaning right but not mainstream right. What is neoreaction but rightwing? It's not mainstream, either. (Less mainstream than Vox, I'd say.) Therefore, it is alt-right.

You should be treating the term alt-right as the general and neoreaction as a specific case. The group you're calling the alt-right is perhaps the mainstream of the alternative right. Maybe it will be the mainstream right some day. But for now, it has to content itself with being one among many alternative factions. Therefore, it doesn't get to call itself *the* alt-right.

Until such time as a more specific name is chosen for followers of Vox's points, or whatever the group you're calling the alt-right forms itself around, they must content themselves with sharing a name with neoreactionaries, right-libertarians, the remnant, white supremacists, etc. This is an advantage, I'm their eyes, because they want to have no leader, be loose, be a moving target, and so forth. They can't have their cake and eat it, too, however. They can't claim the whole of the alt-right for themselves.

Blogger Leo Littlebook in Shenzhen September 02, 2016 12:49 AM  

I define NeoReaction as the use of old books uploaded from Google Books to contradict The Narrative. This makes it a subset of the Alt-Right, with a higher minimum audience IQ threshold.

Moldbug went as far as a Jew bureaucrat can, but James A. Donald is the true exemplar.

The OP sounds like a fag Moldbug fanboy.

Anonymous tublecane September 02, 2016 1:13 AM  

@119-That's true. He always struck me the same way all those "ex"-Trotskyites among conservatives and neoconservatives struck me. Moldbug is an "ex"-mainline progressive pretending to be a Jacobite.

He traces the modern rot back to radical puritans and calls the superstructure of the ruling intellectual class the Cathedral because non-ex progressives would hate more than anything else to think of themselves of as being the dupes of oldtimey Bible-thumpers.

Blogger Doom September 02, 2016 1:22 AM  

I don't know enough about neoreactionaries to say they don't belong. Though if you are one, and from what I have read here, I am thinking not. What I can suggest is that just because alt-right and nrx are to the right, but not mainstream no more makes them the same then some would claim socialism and fascism as elements of the right, and since not mainstream (technically if not literally) also alt-right.

Further, I'd have to see "right" defined. If it is merely the secular political definition, then alt-right isn't right at all, more like alt-z on a three-d grid, rather than on a two-d grid. Then again, that might be why mainstream right is dying. When the faithful realize their leaders are worldly, and that we do actually choose whom to follow or allow to lead or guide, then things go very astray for the secular leadership. Assuming the mechanics of elections haven't been broken.

I honestly don't think, currently, either party... the establishment sorts... have any more regard for God than they do the will of the people. Nor are they even more than play-acting as different options. It all ends up in the same place. Even the left is beginning to see, both the secular and so-called faith-based left. Most of the real right is faith-based, just not the apparatchiks, leadership, and such. Which, again, might mean that the right is not actually "right" at all.

So I really can't be sure if that group belongs. If it is akin to what the Republican party, just wanting a slightly different tack, then it isn't a member. As well? I'm not sure humor is all that interesting to a people who are being racially crushed out of their own country. Laugh, giggle, play, and tease. I'll not have it.

Anonymous tublecane September 02, 2016 1:35 AM  

@141-There certainly are fascist elements of the right. Visit counter-currents, which I enjoy although I'm definitely not one of them.

As for what is "right," that's beyond my ken. I more or less follow the model laid out by Betrand de Jouvenel in "On Power." One thing I am learning about politics is that fundamentally it's about who's side you're on. It's the eternal who/whom. I am not part of the Left Gang, so I guess I'm on the right. I don't know which faction, but I do know the Right Gang when I see it, because it'll be fighting the Left Gang.

Blogger Leo Littlebook in Shenzhen September 02, 2016 1:50 AM  

There are two kinds of NeoReaction:

1. The intellectual avant garde of Reaction
2. Liberal spergs who are new to Reaction, and want a softer, technocratic version of it

James A. Donald is #1. Moldbug is #2.

It is like the difference between conservative and neo-conservative. They need different names.

Some ideas: NewbieReaction, SemiReaction, PseudoReaction, MiniReaction, ImmiReaction, JudoReaction

IRx is probably best, but JRx is actually a great litmus, since anyone who doesn't want to make the Jews leave is not a real Reactionary.

Anonymous tublecane September 02, 2016 2:00 AM  

@143-"It's like the difference between conservative and neoconservative"

Yes, that's sorta what I was trying to say. Neoconservatives were liberals who either got mugged by reality or were simply grossed out by the New Left and suddenly became conservatives. Moldbuggery is progressivism that noticed progressives are crazy and read a bunch of old books and woke up, not necessarily in that order.

They also may be like the communists who became rabid anti-communists, like I was saying, which mostly predated neoconservatism. They were prone to wild exaggerations but we're useful because they knew the communist mind from the inside. Moldbug is like that with progressives and "the Cathedral."

OpenID neocolonial September 02, 2016 2:00 AM  

Jack Hinson wrote:Neocolonial,

BOOOORRRRING!!!!

Jack

Mission accomplished then.

Or to borrow a local turn of phrase:

We. Don't. Care.

Blogger Doom September 02, 2016 2:33 AM  

tublecane,

"As for what is "right," that's beyond my ken." Excellent answer. I'd like to say 'just do more homework' but it takes time. And I'm not sure books, debate, or theory will get it either. I actually think it's either lived or it doesn't really matter whose side anyone says they are on.

As to fighting? I fight some aspects of the right, or "right", or such. I know, Vox doesn't like that. I just don't fit with socialists, and don't count them as the right as many others do. Even if someone is on the right, as I see things, if they have no faith their works are dead to me. So... if those I simply avoid, for now. Could come in handy, though I'll let them go first.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit September 02, 2016 3:59 AM  

sigsawyer wrote:If identity is everything, how did a Norman aristocracy lead a Saxon-Briton polity into English identity, world empire, and cultural eminence?

Who cares how they did it, they just did. In the same way a bastardisation of America through immigration and the islamisation of Europe have destroyed that legacy.

I agree with Vox, NRx is the cerebral onoistits' response to reality; performing "thought experiments" while the altRight is rolling up its proverbial sleeves and getting ready to do something about the mess.

AltRight is a reaction to turning civilization into a third world shit hole that wouldn't have happened if multiculturalism hadn't failed so badly. We don't have time to wait until we have a perfect plan to replace the current sewer, surgeons don't replace the tumor they just cut it out.

IMHO the simplest answer is to cut back on welfare, the illegals will go home and only those prepared to contribute will stay. The problems facing the world are caused by opening the fruits of western civilization (including welfare for the unfortunate) to cultures with no trust who will loot and take everything available unless stopped. They are incompatible and the last half century has shown there is no magic dirt to make them so.

Blogger residentMoron September 02, 2016 4:15 AM  

Who's this fucking loser calling working class?

Anonymous Harold September 02, 2016 5:15 AM  

Since when is NRx not alt-right? Since when is alt-right synonymous with White Nationalism?

The whole point of the term ‘alt-right’ was to be encompassing.

In the early days of TRS they weren’t unabashedly white nationalists, were they not alt-right?

I’ve been a a white nationalist for twenty years. Why did we need a new term. Especially a new term that is more open to entryism.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit September 02, 2016 5:30 AM  

I think the C19th British class definitions are meaningless now. I propose:

Welfare class: anyone relying primarily on welfare to survive

Working class: those who have to work for a living

Leisure class: people in large corporations/ government structures/ Academia who benefit from the work of others but do little themselves for maximum benefit (salary/expenses/networking). It is generational since they use gatekeeping, nepotism and networking to place their offspring in similar positions (working against the notion of meritocracy).

Upper class aristocracy-types living off generational property ownership and other historical legacies

The upper class will gradually fade. People like the Clintons (who should replace them) are leisure class; although their children have absolutely no need to work a day in their lives they still use their connections to get them overpaid jobs in high profile/ low impact organisations. True nobility would have wedded off Chelsea to produce heirs to safeguard their enormous fortune for posterity- no class.

Blogger residentMoron September 02, 2016 7:10 AM  

The 19th Century terms were not descriptive but prescriptive. They were unabashedly intended to hold people in the place they were born, and unless you were upper class they were deliberately pejorative.

I've often worked hard physical labour and I hold there's no shame in that for anyone, but this twat Leghorn is using the terms that way.

Fuck him.

Blogger FrankNorman September 02, 2016 8:42 AM  

I see that Vox's talk of euthanasia based on genetic testing has spooked some people.
Personally, I think he was just trying to describe the range of possible futures, including the unlikely extremes.
Because seriously, no, that one's not going to happen. Pedro's not going to meekly submit if those are the terms, and any American government totalitarian enough to make him do so will have Billy-Joe sniping at it from the hilltops.

Remember how everyone reacted to Tom Kratman's "kill all felons and progressives" notion?

And that's not even the most extreme imaginable option, in terms of giving the Leftist-globalist-multi-culti people a big NO to their agenda.

Blogger Leo Littlebook in Shenzhen September 02, 2016 9:24 AM  

23andMe is the new Arbeit Macht Frei.

Blogger PoseidonAwoke September 02, 2016 9:43 AM  

grey enlightenment: "see some major overgeneralizing here..all populist political movements, by definition, cater to lower class, to get more members. NRx is different from alt-right in that it rejects populism."

I view the AltRight as the populist movement. It's unlikely that any populist movement is not geared toward the working class, thus the shorthand is 'AltRight is working class'.

Now, Vox is right: There are intellectuals in the AltRight. Any movement is going to need its intellectual leadership, even if it serves the working class. So, I'm not trying to offend the higher class intellectuals by pointing out that their movement is geared to the working class. 'AltRight is working class' is just shorthand, the existence of middle class leadership doesn't change my analysis of the general makeup.

I see some people are offended by talk of class at all. Well, that's reality for you. Toughen up.

I'm not NRx, although I started from that point when I began blogging. I'm much more interested in the AltRight, because I know that it is the New Right, and will eventually just be 'the Right'. My ultimate interest is in Western Civilization and the protecting the evolutionary strategy of my people.

Blogger PoseidonAwoke September 02, 2016 9:50 AM  

A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents wrote:The NRX loop:

Observe, observe, observe, orient, observe, orient, observe, orient, deci....observe, observe, orient.

OODA is not in NRx's vocabulary. Get to "A"? Are you mad?


This is my analysis of the people who still call themselves NRx, and why I wanted to give them an idea of what I think would be a useful role for them, one that does not require direct action on their part: "Produce moral license". Those who will act will be drawn more to AltRight anyway. They have some smart guys who like to talk about religion. This task would at least be useful in the fight to secure Western Civilization.

Blogger PoseidonAwoke September 02, 2016 10:07 AM  

VD wrote:I think NRx types--and here I include myself--are at least in principle OK with the idea of a multi-ethnic polity, which it seems that the alt-right is not.

That's why NRx is ultimately doomed. You guys are like the conservatives, clinging to ideology in a world of identity politics.


The upper classes of any ethnicity can get along fine. This is simply class bias or class blindness: inability to see that the problems occurs in the lower classes. Sure, all the races in your gated community get along fine, but the jails have to be segregated by race. Conservatives, are 'hopeful' in their insistence that we can create a society in which the lower classes are incentivized to adopt the norms and behaviors of the middle class. The New Right is 'hopeless' or 'resigned' to the fact that this is not possible. (It's my opinion that instead we must reform our institutions to deal with the differences in the classes and organize trades between the classes to preserve cooperation, and our strategic advantage of rapid evolution.) Many (not all) in NRx appear to make the same mistake as the conservatives, despite the evidence. They refer to this realization as 'populist' in an attempt to deny it.

Blogger PoseidonAwoke September 02, 2016 10:31 AM  

Vox wrote:he fails to observe that the AltRight is, despite its exuberant vulgarity, every bit as intellectually formidable as NRx

Obviously, I was unclear. Yes, the AltRight has excellent intellectuals, so much so that I pay attention to them, and not so much to NRx. For example, I am a regular reader of this blog.

My post was not a call for the intellectuals of NRX to come and help the hapless lower classes of the AltRight. I'm afraid that I have given you this impression, and that was not my intention. My post was a call for NRx to become useful to the AltRight > New Right > Right in general. It was to show them that they can play a complementary role in the defense of Western Civilization.

Blogger Twisted Root September 02, 2016 2:05 PM  

Bolshevik slogans and ideas on the whole have been confirmed by history - V I Lenin.

We shall win using memes - Alt-right.

Anonymous Severian September 02, 2016 2:49 PM  


"the AltRight is, despite its exuberant vulgarity, every bit as intellectually formidable as NRx."

I dont think so...

Who's the Alt-right Moldbug? Or Nick Land even.

Not that the Alt right needs them though, it obviously seeks to achieve it's objectives through populism and democratic politics, something anathema to NRx from the beginning.
That makes the original article somewhat pointless, as is any sort of practical alliance between both. Just let each one do their own thing.

Blogger Porter September 02, 2016 2:52 PM  

At its heart NRx believes in ideas, while the alt-right believes in people.

Anonymous severian September 02, 2016 3:14 PM  

Porter wrote:At its heart NRx believes in ideas, while the alt-right believes in people.
And NRx ideas are mostly about how people > ideas.

Anonymous Thomas777 September 02, 2016 3:36 PM  

Typical Buckley-esque snobbery, of the sort that is a staple conceit of Conservatives (mainstream or 'dissident' type).

He's saying the Alt.Right is at base Fascistoid, and as everybody knows, Fascists are vulgar, working class men of the unwashed type.

The PaleoConservative/''right winger'' form of virtue signalling is anti-Fascism - every Conservative (whatever his peculiar stripe) will begin a conversation by exhibiting/airing out his anti-Fascist bona fides.

Anonymous Thomas777 September 02, 2016 3:39 PM  

Also:

''Dark Enlightenment'' is a ridiculous term that smacks of Autism and its also ahistorical. The ''dark enlightenment'' already occurred - some centuries ago and it was called the Counter-Reformation. Its most literate standard bearer was De Maistre.

People who've never read De Maistre who believe that the rebuttal to Jacobinism was only recently proffered by some greasy, Guido ''mens rights'' blogger or another are men of suspect credibility I am afraid.

OpenID peppermintfrosted September 02, 2016 5:16 PM  

NRx is an ideology and a criticism of liberalism.

Alt-Right is a movement of young White men who don't think they have a future with the system as it is.

Thus Alt-Right is willing to listen to NRx, and may even agree with NRx on virtually everything, but isn't NRx.

OpenID peppermintfrosted September 02, 2016 6:36 PM  

Dear second-generation swarthy immigrant, your options are to wait here for a determination of your status which may come in a less than opportune manner or do like Vox Day did and find a nice country that may in the future deport him but is unlikely to have a race war that kills him.

Things in the US have progressed to the point where not only should everyone be making plans to physically move to a place more suitable for the kind of person they are, but probably every young person is making those plans, certainly every young person I know personally. I only hope that it becomes clear who should go where early so not too many people get confused and have to move more than once. Also, the idea of surrendering the coastal cities to the liberals makes people sad, but they should remember that if liberals knew how to use their resources, they wouldn't be liberals.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey September 02, 2016 6:38 PM  

"(((Moldbug))), anyone?"

Beat me to it. I wasted more than a few hours in the mazes of (((unqualifiedreservations))) before finding the true path...

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey September 02, 2016 6:39 PM  

"(((Moldbug))), anyone?"

Beat me to it. I wasted more than a few hours in the mazes of (((unqualifiedreservations))) before finding the true path...

Anonymous tublecane September 02, 2016 7:35 PM  

@163-"Dark enlightenment" is oxymoronic, on purpose, but not ridiculous. It's tongue in cheek. The term itself is in no way autistic. You are reading backward from its practitioners to the term, if anything. Or you're just calling it autistic because that's what everyone calls everything on today's internet.

I don't know what's ahistorical about the term in light of (no pun intended) the fact that there has already been a reaction to the Reformation or the Enlightenment. There have been more than one, in fact. Reactions are legion. One of them, the Romantic Movement, was absorbed into the Enlightenment. I don't get your point.

We can keep on having reactions because the old ones didn't take. The dominant intellectual order continues to have its roots in the Reformation/Enlightenment, and any reactionary movement seeking to tear out those roots may reasonably call itself a Dark Enlightenment.

Anonymous tublecane September 02, 2016 7:51 PM  

@163-Also, I wouldn't call De Maistre a figure of the Counter-reformation, which took place about 100 years before his birth. He was an opponent of the Jacobins. But the Dark Enlightenment argues against ideas originating at least a couple of centuries before the Jacobins.

Nevertheless, they are fans of De Maistre, and make no secret of it. In fact, you might say of all the internet political factions they're most likely to know him. So why you pick De Maistre, of all figures, to upbraid them with is beyond me.

It's looking more and more like you're the ahistorical one.

Blogger peppermint88 September 02, 2016 11:25 PM  

the political compass is missing the most relevant axis today, cuck vs racist. Until this year, so was the Democrat/Republican two party system.

Blogger pbuxton September 03, 2016 4:51 PM  

I would discount Mr Leghorn's argument at one sentence: "I was right when I wrote that NRx is Right Brahmin Signalling." How terribly perceptive, to repeat Mencius Moldbug's words almost verbatim.

Blogger Patriotic Canadian September 03, 2016 9:29 PM  

The second half of your statement seems like step one. The first half is step two. I wouldn't mind Canada becoming more white again. Having two very distinct cultures in one country does cause a lot of strife. And the priceless part is both English and French Canadian stock are white. I shudder to think what would happen if we had American levels of diversity.

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts