ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2020 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Wednesday, September 21, 2016

Of Alt-West and Alt-White

The question is not whether there are at least two distinct branches of the Alt-Right already or not, but whether the Alt-White branch can get its swastika panties sufficiently unbunched to cooperate with the Alt-West and the Alt-Lite in the pursuit of its stated objectives, or if it is more interested in competitive navel-gazing and purity-spiraling.

After a few run-ins with true-believing Stormfronters who have been Alt-Right since the distant dawn of primordial identity politics in 2010, both here and on Twitter, it has become abundantly clear that the combination of a legitimate fear of entryism and an understandable case of spotlight envy, the Alt-White is having some serious trouble dealing with the inevitable problems of success and popularity.

It's rather like a company that has sales that are rapidly growing. The increase in demand for your products is great, but it is still a real problem. How are you going to get the additional products made? How are you going to pay for them? Are these new customers going to stick around or will they disappear before you can even expand your manufacturing capacity? These are good problems to have, but they are definitely problems that will need to be addressed.

First, is a distinction really necessary? Yes, without question. This should be obvious, since Alt-White, Alt-West, and Alt-Light are all different strains of identity-based thought that are all also observably distinct from mainstream conservatism or libertarianism. In this sense, all three are ALTernatives to the traditional RIGHT. Hence the Spencer-coined term.

Second, should all three be considered Alt-Right? Here I would argue no, that while it is reasonable to describe both Alt-White and Alt-West as Alt-Right, the Alt-Lite should not be. The reason is that while both Alt-White and Alt-West sign on to the greater part of the 16 Points of the Alt-Right I've laid out, and which most Alt-Rightists have generally endorsed, the various people who make up the Alt-Lite are all over the place with regards to most of them.

The Alt-Lite, in other words, is the larval form of the Alt-Right, which means that they are not, practically speaking, Alt-Right in any meaningful or functional sense. They are merely those still undergoing the intellectual transition that most Alt-Rightists have made, at one point or another. Alt-Lite is a transitional stage, not an end point.

By contrast, the Alt-White and Alt-West are both destinations. Once one gravitates towards one branch or the other, or as may be the case, is directed there by virtue of one's identity, one is simply not going to eventually move towards the other one. This leads us to the third question, what are the key differences between the Alt-White and the Alt-West. The following are my observations; I am quite willing to be corrected by someone who can speak more credibly for the Alt-White.

  1. Alt-White is for whites only. Alt-West is pan-racial and pan-national, which should not be confused with being multicultural or equalitarian or pro-diversity in the egalitarian sense.
  2. Alt-White is primarily concerned with white nationalism, and secondarily concerned with European nationalisms. Within the Alt-White, there is already a discussion concerning what the difference between a generic white nationalism and the specific European nationalisms are; I suspect there will eventually be a further distinction between American and European branches of the Alt-White. While the Alt-West supports white nationalism, that is not its sole concern, as it supports all nationalism, European or otherwise.
  3. Alt-White is neutral to hostile on Christianity. Alt-West is strongly pro-Christian, as it believes Christianity to be one of the three pillars of Western Civilization aka the historical Christendom. Pro-Christian includes, but does not require, actually being a Christian.
  4. Alt-White is neutral to hostile on Israel. Alt-West is pro-Israel, as it supports all nationalist homelands.
  5. Alt-White is hostile to very hostile to all Jews everywhere. Alt-West is friendly to Israeli Jews while hostile to globalist Jews and anti-nationalist Jews.
  6. Alt-White has a romantic view of National Socialism. Alt-West regards it as a suicidally stupid but semiotically useful form of German nationalism.
  7. Alt-White is neutral to pro-white imperialism. Alt-West is anti-imperialism, as it regards imperalism as being societally enervating and self-destructive.
As you can see, within the context of both the 16 Points and the grand political spectrum, Alt-White and Alt-West are largely in accord. They generally share a philosophy and a direction, but their priorities and perspectives are different. More importantly, with the possible exception of Christianity in the long term, there is very little reason for conflict between Alt-White and Alt-West, indeed, the distinction between the two eliminates the Alt-White's primary objection to the Alt-West, which is the possibility of  being sidelined by the media and by the larger potential appeal of the Alt-West.

Some have accused me, and Milo, and several others, of wanting to assume the mantle of leading the Alt-Right. That is the exact opposite of the truth. In fact, one personal benefit of articulating the distinction between the two primary branches of the Alt-Right is that it makes it clear that a) there can be no unitary leader, and b) even if there could be, that unitary leader could not possibly be me due to my identity as an American Indian and member of La Raza.

The more significant benefit is to quell the fears of the Alt-White that they will be sidelined by their more numerous allies. But the Alt-West needs nothing from the Alt-White, and by establishing a separate identity, a much broader spectrum of members are made possible while respecting the rigid borders of the Alt-White. Regardless, the simple fact of the matter is that the Alt-White is not the only alternative to mainstream conservatism.

There are much bigger battles ahead than settling the question of whether Christianity is a necessary component of Western Civilization or not. Because we know the white race is absolutely a necessary component of it, and that is why, whether one is inclined towards the Alt-White or the Alt-West, every member of the Alt-Right who values both whites and the West has immediate and mid-range objectives remain exactly the same.

As before, this is not intended to be a definitive delineation of the differences between the two branches of the Alt-Right, but the starting point for an intelligent discussion. Keep it civil and substantive as those more interested in posturing will be spammed. As for those who will claim that Alt-West, Alt-White, and Alt-Lite are not genuine "things", keep in mind that as a political taxonomist, I am creating nothing. I am merely describing what observably already exists.

Labels: , ,

354 Comments:

«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 354 of 354
Blogger Markku September 21, 2016 4:04 PM  

That would be swell, thanks.

Not happening.

Anonymous Anonymous September 21, 2016 4:05 PM  

The Alt West is simply a brand rip off of the Alt Right.

Whining. Whining everywhere ...

Blogger RJJCDA September 21, 2016 4:06 PM  

A possible exit from the conundrum would be to state that the Alt Right supports and encourages Western peoples in their countries, but accepts those others that have an affinity for their culture.

Blogger yoghi.llama September 21, 2016 4:09 PM  

3. Alt-White is neutral to hostile on Christianity. Alt-West is strongly pro-Christian, as it believes Christianity to be one of the three pillars of Western Civilization aka the historical Christendom. Pro-Christian includes, but does not require, actually being a Christian.

Non-rhetorical question: how does one be pro-Christian, while not being Christian, and how would this position be reconciled with the instructions of 2 Corinthians 6:14–18?

(An unbeliever is unrighteous, of darkness, with Belial, an idol-worshipper, unclean and not to be touched, and not a child of G-d. These words will not motivate unbelievers to love you.)

[Fwiw I see myself as pro-Christian but non-Christian, because I have a lot more sympathy for Middle Eastern Christians than Western ones. One expects to see some difference between the biological descendants of those who have withstood centuries of persecution vs the ideological descendants of those who have dished out centuries of persecution.]

Christianity might still make its big comeback in USA or Southern/Eastern Europe, but in Northwest Europe I just don't see it happening. Does this mean we are beyond hope?

Blogger Markku September 21, 2016 4:12 PM  

1Co 5:9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with immoral men;
10 not at all meaning the immoral of this world, or the greedy and robbers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.

We can associate with them just fine. We just can't marry them. That's what "yoking" means.

Blogger Dark Herald September 21, 2016 4:13 PM  

@Adriano

You are embarrassing yourself. So please stop it.

Begin by reading AlphaGame and stick with it for now.

Nothing against you at all personally but as yet you just aren't ready for the Vox Popoli ride and that's the truth of it.

I'm not telling you this to try to make you feel bad. I'm telling you this because it's the truth.

You are smarter than the average bear but that is just a start and not a destination.

Learn a little humility. That will put you on the road towards being a good man and a good christian.

Start with AlphaGame.

If you keep this shit up and Vox is going ban you sooner rather than later.

I am not speaking for Vox. I've just been here long enough to see how this ALWAYS works out.

I'm giving you good advice son. Vox does not tolerate anyone who acts like a Gamma.

Blogger S1AL September 21, 2016 4:13 PM  

"(An unbeliever is unrighteous, of darkness, with Belial, an idol-worshipper, unclean and not to be touched, and not a child of G-d. These words will not motivate unbelievers to love you.)"

You're either misreading or misrepresenting the verses in question.

Anonymous Anonymous September 21, 2016 4:14 PM  

@203 yogi.llama

Non-rhetorical question: how does one be pro-Christian, while not being Christian ...

I think you answered your own question.

how would this position be reconciled with the instructions of 2 Corinthians 6:14–18?

In the world but not of it. Salt and light.

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros September 21, 2016 4:18 PM  

"It comes from the same place that the unjustifiably arrogant combox Atheist I Fucking Love Science thing comes from. A desperate desire to be better than the people around you, especially your parents. Particularly when there's no justification for accounting yourself better, you can boast of your White Skin, or you can hate people for having darker skin. Or hate them and sneer at them for being ignorant snake-handling hicks. Same thing."

And they've read enough Churchians proclaiming the Gospel of Adopting Black Babies Instead Of Having Your Own Children, the Gospel of Putting A Lesbian In Every Pulpit, the Gospel of If You Don't Want Unlimited Illegal Immigrants You're Not A Real Christian, and so on, and assume that this is a defining feature of Christianity, because it's endemic and even those who do not bow the knee to Ba'al don't talk about it in public.

You really don't need to have a pathological need to feel superior, to feel superior to Churchians. The fact that they throw their neighbor's children off the Temple in the hopes that angels will eventually start catching them, sets the bar pretty low.

Blogger Guitar Man September 21, 2016 4:21 PM  

God and Family is of most importance to the Western Man.

The WNs (Alt-White) I've encountered were unproductive parasites. If they had kids, they hardly know them. I'm sure that is just anecdotal evidence based on my own experience, but I'm not the only one who's noticed this.

Anonymous Jay Will September 21, 2016 4:23 PM  

"I don't personally know any 1488ers or Alt-White. However the few that I'm aware of on the internet don't appear to have wives and children.
Personally, I can't take seriously any thinkers and speakers on preserving white identity and race, when they don't appear to personally be doing it themselves."

This is massive to me. So many people whinging about this (me) and doing very little at the "evolutionary" level. They will bang on about K selected and R selected societies, obviously with them as the predatorial productive class rather than the loser end. Tell us that the hind brain is real, and matters a lot. And yet father ZERO FUCKING CHILDREN. But at the same time say their hind brains don't know they are not breeding so deflowering young white women is HUUUGE. But surely their hind brain is also aware that they are not BREEDING.

They are evolutionary fail. Islam wins. Krauser loses.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 21, 2016 4:23 PM  

yoghi.llama wrote:Non-rhetorical question: how does one be pro-Christian, while not being Christian, and how would this position be reconciled with the instructions of 2 Corinthians 6:14–18?We don't really care whether anti-Christians understand or not. Not everyone who does not have the gift of Faith hates Christ and Christians.

Anonymous Anonymous September 21, 2016 4:24 PM  

Vox, two different and interesting takes on Milo and his recent speech - Lawrence Murray at Right Stuff and Brett Stevens at Alternative Right. Comment?

Anonymous AltRight September 21, 2016 4:30 PM  

Firstly, none of you even understand what the Alt Right is.

The Alt Right is a white nationalist movement inside and out. If you disagree with this, you're understanding of the Alt Right is incorrect.

Next, you types like Gavinn Mcinne, Milo, Paul Joseph Watson, etc, need to start your own movement. The Alt Right is more than just calling out the Left and SJWs and the real Alt Right is not going to allow you types to turn the Alt Right into some cringy cucked Left Wing witch hunt squad.

The minute Hilary gave the speech about the Alt Right many people on the actual Alt Right rightfully predicted that soft Right Wing websites like this would jump all over the Alt Right and try to pretend they're apart of the Alt Right.

Who do you think created the Alt Right? Name one Alt Right website or Alt Right figure that isn't inherently pro-white and who acknowledges that the Alt Right is about being pro-white and about being white nationalists (and they're also National Socialists and Fascist within the Alt Right. I know that makes you cucked Right types uncomfortable).

What's with all this nonsense about Christianity and Atheism? Religion is not as important as you're making it out to be within the Alt Right.

You're not in any position to dictate "what is" and "what isn't" the Alt Right. So the "Alt-white" and "Alt-west" nonsense is limited to this website, as nobody on the real Alt Right is going to adopt any of this.

Stick to calling out the Left and SJWs. You do good work in that area. However, the Alt Right is about being pro-white and it's about being white nationalists. Anyone who says different has no understanding of the Alt Right or they're intentionally trying to co-opt the Alt Right to make it mean something it doesn't.


The comments are especially lulz.

Blogger Markku September 21, 2016 4:31 PM  

Next, you types like Gavinn Mcinne, Milo, Paul Joseph Watson, etc, need to start your own movement.

No.

Anonymous Jay Will September 21, 2016 4:35 PM  

"Gee, Vox; you know you're popular when people shamelessly plug their own blogs on your dime."

I think you will find that is cent not dime.
When will self-identified Amerigo-Indian/La Raza guy be expelled from the genetic home of the Cosa Nostra.

Blogger Jew613 September 21, 2016 4:36 PM  

@183 http://www.spyflight.co.uk/iafvraf.htm

Anonymous Anonymous September 21, 2016 4:38 PM  

"...the real Alt Right..."

*chuckle*

Blogger VD September 21, 2016 4:39 PM  

If Alt White becomes telling-the-truth-about-race it will both legitimize them and purge them of their illegitimate parts. (You don't think Jews are white? 95% of them? Really? Morons. The problem with Jewish leftists is their leftism, not their Jewishness.)

Jews are not white. They are their own self-interested tribe. Stop playing the "hello, fellow white people" game. It doesn't fool anyone. And the problem with Jews is their tribalism. The tendency towards leftism is just an anti-bonus.

The Alt West is simply a brand rip off of the Alt Right. Just come up with your own name. That would be swell, thanks.

You don't understand how this works. If we don't establish a distinct brand, we'll be the Alt-Right. I'm trying to avoid that.

Blogger VD September 21, 2016 4:47 PM  

You're not in any position to dictate "what is" and "what isn't" the Alt Right. So the "Alt-white" and "Alt-west" nonsense is limited to this website, as nobody on the real Alt Right is going to adopt any of this.

And that's where you're wrong.

You guys are such amateurs, you think that you have any say in what anyone else does. For crying out loud, GamerGaters SPECIALIZE in taking over the overt enemy's hashtags.

I have repeatedly turned down media interviews. I have repeatedly denied that I am the leader, a spokesman, or a figurehead of the Alt-Right. And yet, I am seen as more of an Alt-Right whatever than virtually any of "the real Alt-Right".

Why? Because a) I have a popular blog and b) I am the bestselling Political Philosopher alive on Amazon.

Now, you can work with me, ignore me, or oppose me. I don't care. But rest assured, nothing you do will have any affect on me. Read up on the SFWA and the Hugo Awards sometime and see how well trying to push me around worked out for them.

Blogger Nate September 21, 2016 4:49 PM  

"The Alt Right is a white nationalist movement inside and out. If you disagree with this, you're understanding of the Alt Right is incorrect. "

So... you missed the Brainstorm didn't you.

Blogger Nate September 21, 2016 4:50 PM  

"You don't understand how this works. If we don't establish a distinct brand, we'll be the Alt-Right. I'm trying to avoid that."

Exactly.

If they keep running their mouths like this they are going to end up stuffed into a locker.. just like highschool.

Blogger Guitar Man September 21, 2016 4:52 PM  

Nate, you think most of them even went to high school?

Blogger Nate September 21, 2016 4:53 PM  

'Nate, you think most of them even went to high school?'

yes. They went. They were the loser that no one remembers.

Blogger Salt September 21, 2016 4:56 PM  

"The Alt Right is a white nationalist movement inside and out. If you disagree with this, you're understanding of the Alt Right is incorrect."

Talk about attempting co-option of what is greater than your pure Arayan worldview.

Anonymous ZhukovG September 21, 2016 4:56 PM  

@Nate, exactly. You'd think these guys would know their own National Socialist history. Maybe recall what happened to another 'Alt-Right' group in 1934 that insisted it was the only 'Real Alt-Right'.

Blogger Jimmy The Freak September 21, 2016 4:56 PM  

Some of these people are starting to make make MGTOW look good in comparison.

Seriously, Adriano, calm the fuck down. You are just coming across as a dipshit. Lurk for a while. It does wonders.

Anonymous Anonymous September 21, 2016 4:56 PM  

So... you missed the Brainstorm didn't you.

I see what you did there, Nate.

Anonymous Casey September 21, 2016 4:59 PM  

The deplorables, eh?

Anonymous trequar September 21, 2016 5:04 PM  

On the Hillary speech. She was also grouping in Alternative media (as in Infowars, Brietbart, Manosphere etc) along with a whole host of right-leaning people. Of course, that was the beauty of using a descriptor as generic as "alt-right" instead of White Nationalism 2.0.

It's all a bit of mess right now with everyone trying to claim credit or define things. I respect VD for trying to bring clarity.

Blogger Salt September 21, 2016 5:09 PM  

The left really cannot handle it, the right choosing up sides (no matter the bickering) with them as the target.

Anonymous ZhukovG September 21, 2016 5:13 PM  

@230 Exactly, and bickering is to be expected. The Left can barely keep its 'diverse' factions from killing each other.

Blogger yoghi.llama September 21, 2016 5:26 PM  

We can associate with them just fine. We just can't marry them. That's what "yoking" means.

Have heard this before. Seems like a low-energy, narrow interpretation of a high-energy, expansive set of verses.

If all he meant was marriage, he could've just said marriage.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 21, 2016 5:31 PM  

The alt west has white babies. The alt white does not.

Anonymous Barking Mad September 21, 2016 5:34 PM  

54. GREG NIKOLIC

You think Trump, who has outmaneuvered and beaten all his opponents, and is now crushing Hillary, Trump who has built the highest-energy campaign in more than a generation, and tapped into oceanic reservoirs of popular support... needs YOUR advice?

Nice spam-y link to your site, too. Not clicking on it.

Are you merely clueless, merely a spammer, or are you an SJW troll?

Blogger Markku September 21, 2016 5:35 PM  

If you are going to make it something other than marriage, then you need to give some explanation about how the same author, to the same congregation, wrote that you can "associate" with non-Christians, as I quoted. Yoking is when two oxen are bound together to pull farming equipment. "Unequally yoking" is when you put two animals that are too different on the yoke. It results in chaos.

Blogger Markku September 21, 2016 5:36 PM  

In case you are not familiar with the terminology, "of this world" means non-Christians.

Blogger S1AL September 21, 2016 5:38 PM  

"'We can associate with them just fine. We just can't marry them. That's what "yoking" means.'

Have heard this before. Seems like a low-energy, narrow interpretation of a high-energy, expansive set of verses.

If all he meant was marriage, he could've just said marriage."

Some also take this to include direct partnerships in areas like business, but that's the most expansive interpretation I've ever seen. There aren't a whole lot of relationships that could be metaphorically described as "yoked". Marriage is the most obvious, and the only universally acknowledged one.

But you can't take a single passage completely out of context, especially the direct context of the letters to the Corinthians. As Markku pointed out, 1st Corinthians specifically negates your interpretation.

Moreover, it's incredibly hard to witness to people with whom you do not associate. Just saying.

Blogger Markku September 21, 2016 5:39 PM  

Between these two, "associating" and "yoking" I have heard only one suggestion that might ostensibly be yoking, and therefore forbidden: a significant business partnership, where a Christian and a non-Christian start a company together.

Anonymous Anonymous September 21, 2016 5:41 PM  

Firstly, none of you even understand what the Alt Right is.

If I was trying to derail the alt-right, I would try to focus everyone on infighting around terminology and personalities, rather than regarding anyone working to secure the existence of our people and a future for white children as an ally.

We're all in this fight together right now, brother.

Aim fire left and merchant.

Blogger Nate September 21, 2016 5:50 PM  

"The alt west has white babies. The alt white does not."

shots fired.

Blogger Markku September 21, 2016 5:51 PM  

Also, often when something sounds just plain strange in your English Bible, like this "unequally yoked together" - isn't that an oddly specific thing to say? - it is very often the case that there just was no English word for the translator to choose.

All these words, "unequally yoked together" of KJV, are just one word in the Greek: heterozygeō. The entire sentence is: Me gineste heterozygountes. The original audience would have immediately understood the meaning, because it was a known concept and they probably had chided their neighbors many times for "heterozygeing" their animals. When dealing with bulls, that can get ugly. And lethal.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 21, 2016 5:54 PM  

yoghi.llama wrote:Have heard this before. Seems like a low-energy, narrow interpretation of a high-energy, expansive set of verses.


You know what I love? I just love it when Atheists tell me what Scripture means. I'm pretty sure your opinion on what it means is irrelevant, not just because if they were capable of understanding scripture, they'd not be an Atheist, but also because they deny the validity of the Scriptures a priori.

Anonymous Anonymous September 21, 2016 5:56 PM  

159. Escoffier September 21, 2016 2:49 PM
This! I was always baffled by Auster's insistence that the Nazi's were a right wing ideology.



i may have found your ((( problem ))).

"Born Jewish, Auster converted to Christianity as an adult and became a member of the Episcopal Church, a church he said he preferred "in the historical rather than the present tense", because the Church's ordination of openly gay men means "it has ceased being a Christian church"."

a Jew converts to a church WHICH HE KNOWS is invalid? wut?

further, compare the critiques that Vox and i have made of the 2 Jews/3 opinions trope.

Auster takes up the Thesis: Nat Soc is of the Right

Goldberg takes up the AntiThesis: Fascism / Nat Soc is of the Left

together they produce a Synthesis: Socialism is NOTHING TO DO WITH THE JEWS!



132. Aeoli Pera September 21, 2016 1:58 PM
FFS dude. We're talking JQ here and you stroll in and jokingly claim shadowy leadership of the less homicidal side?



*triggering intensifies*



151. Robert What? September 21, 2016 2:31 PM
So this past few weeks I learned I am apparently not White,




your primary problem is with the Jews, who themselves claim that Jews are now White ... except when it benefits them.



156. Jay Will September 21, 2016 2:45 PM
Id be happy for any party to even start the ball rolling by saying the UK is an English speaking country



oh? what of the Welsh? the Scots don't speak much Gaelic anymore, but they used too.

English is the language of England. the rest of the UK, not so much.

Blogger Markku September 21, 2016 6:00 PM  

Also: You probably read it as rhetoric, as "unbelievers are really, really, really bad. Like, REALLY bad. Satan bad."

But what it actually is, is a straightforward statement of fact: You are Satan's property.

Anonymous Anonymous September 21, 2016 6:07 PM  

@241 Snidely Whiplash

Well said and true.

Professing to be wise they became fools ... (cf. Somewhere in the Bible)

Blogger Markku September 21, 2016 6:09 PM  

SO, when it's the NEW TESTAMENT, now it's "Somewhere in the Bible" eh?

Tut tut.

Blogger S1AL September 21, 2016 6:10 PM  

"SO, when it's the NEW TESTAMENT, now it's "Somewhere in the Bible" eh?

Tut tut."

Snerk Snerk Snerk Snerk

Anonymous Anonymous September 21, 2016 6:12 PM  

Dammit, Markku ...

Blogger VD September 21, 2016 6:17 PM  

So this past few weeks I learned I am apparently not White

You're not. And apparently you haven't been paying any attention to what your co-ethnics have been saying for decades.

Blogger Mr. B.A.D. September 21, 2016 6:24 PM  

Tldr: Before Christianity was impressed upon the white race we were as savage as any man that ever lived. This is a no-brainer.

Blogger Noah B. September 21, 2016 6:25 PM  

Even though there are many of us who don't fit neatly into either Alt-White or Alt-West, I do think the distinction is helpful, provided it's understood that we're all still Alt-Right. All of our interests are closely enough aligned that we should be able to cooperate for the foreseeable future.

Blogger Markku September 21, 2016 6:26 PM  

Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.
cf. That place in the whatnots

Anonymous Anonymous September 21, 2016 6:31 PM  

@253 Markku

Touche, you glorious Finnish bastard, touche.

Blogger Noah B. September 21, 2016 6:33 PM  

What's the Alt-West position on whether or not Finns, Irish, and Italians are white?

Anonymous ZhukovG September 21, 2016 6:44 PM  

@255 Just my opinion, but I would say
Finns - Yes
Celts (Irish, Welsh, Scots) - Yes
Italians - Northern - Yes, Southern - ?

Anonymous Jack Amok September 21, 2016 6:45 PM  

Contrary to what atheist spergs often think, Christians usually make the best neighbors. Especially if nobody is trying to suppress their religion.

Smart people who don't believe in Christian theology do believe in Christian culture. Idiots let their lack of faith blind them to everything else.

Blogger Mr. B.A.D. September 21, 2016 6:51 PM  

Before Christianity was impressed on the white race, we generally as savage as any race hat ever existed. Whether or not it is a pillar of Western civilization is a no-brainer

Anonymous IndecisiveEvidence September 21, 2016 6:55 PM  

The white children thing is a rhetorical stab. Unless you yourself making that claim are working on your 7th kid, whites will not outbreed the brown waves. If we had a functioning immigration policy, we wouldn't have to.

That said, alt-white is by and large absolute trash at building influence. They claim they'll attract the most by being loud vocal and uncompromising, but for the most part this just means they will pick a fight with anyone on their enemies list. When the media comes after Roosh, they lol. When Twitter bans Milo, they lol. There is no concept among them to at least hold their tongue and not attack people fighting the same enemy you are. They take umbrage at VD suggesting "praise allies in public. Chastise allies in private."

They're total spergs. It's infuriating. They don't want to win. They want to act out their fucking neuroses in public.

Anonymous Roundtine September 21, 2016 6:59 PM  

Can anyone come up with a meaningful policy disagreement between WNs and the rest of the Alt-Right in the next 10 years? Are there any serious disagreements before whites are a secure majority?

Anonymous CatholicOne September 21, 2016 7:05 PM  

VD wrote:

Jews are not white. They are their own self-interested tribe.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think where the alt-White is mistaken, is that there can exist some generic White ethnostate. Most White people are proud English, German, Croatian, etc. The Croatians and the Serbians are practically the same people, yet their identities are very different. Croatians are their own self-interested tribe distinct from Serbians. If you press a Croatian he'll say he's White in some generic sense, but his identity is strongly Croatian, not White. This doesn't mean I disagree with point 14, but I think how I see it is different than how the alt-White sees it.

Thanks.

Blogger vtah September 21, 2016 7:10 PM  

the other day i checked out stormtroopers out of curiosity and definitely realized that i did not belong because i am of mixed-race. it got me thinking about some of the things addressed in this amazing article. thank you for CLARIFYING so much for us, vox. you have a knack for putting things into focus / resolving the abstract.

Blogger Markku September 21, 2016 7:11 PM  

In Europe, absolutely not. There is ZERO chance that we'd live together in harmony with another European people, no matter how white they are. Here, nationalism has to mean only one thing: Preserving the actual nations.

However, in America there is already so much mixture that white Americans wouldn't even want to separate themselves along clean ethnic lines further than general. Rather, you'd see some localized concentrations of Italians and possibly a few other nationalities that have a particularly distinct culture, but not much else. The solutions are entirely different.

Blogger Robert What? September 21, 2016 7:14 PM  

@Aeoli, no idea what you are talking about.

Blogger VD September 21, 2016 7:15 PM  

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think where the alt-White is mistaken, is that there can exist some generic White ethnostate

I agree. The Alt-White is an almost entirely American perspective. There are a few pan-Europeans, but most European nationalists distrust that concept due to the EU.

Anonymous Robert Rogers of the Rangers September 21, 2016 7:16 PM  

This all seems to peaceful. When do we get to raise companies of men to destroy Muslim settlements like we use to do to Abenaki Indians? In least we are justified this time....

Anonymous trequar September 21, 2016 7:18 PM  

@255
andherewego.gif

Blogger Lazarus September 21, 2016 7:22 PM  

VD wrote:Jews are not white. They are their own self-interested tribe. Stop playing the "hello, fellow white people" game. It doesn't fool anyone. And the problem with Jews is their tribalism. The tendency towards leftism is just an anti-bonus.

The following Identitarian Jew agrees with Vox:

Do YOU Stand for the National Anthem?

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 21, 2016 7:30 PM  

Noah B wrote:What's the Alt-West position on whether or not Finns, Irish, and Italians are white?

Here's the thing about people who aren't spergs...they don't need a scientific study to tell them who's white. They just look at the person.

You know, like everyone has done for thousands of years.

Blogger S1AL September 21, 2016 7:39 PM  

"Here's the thing about people who aren't spergs...they don't need a scientific study to tell them who's white. They just look at the person.

You know, like everyone has done for thousands of years."

See, you say that. And then people talk about Roosh, who is literally Caucasian. Because his last name sounds funny and apparently they don't know any Polish people, either.

Blogger Markku September 21, 2016 7:40 PM  

When you see a Finn, you realize that you didn't know "white" before.

Anonymous BigGayKoranBurner September 21, 2016 7:55 PM  

1.Alt-White is for whites only. Alt-West is pan-racial and pan-national

Can you be alt-white & accepting of east Asians?

Can Isreal survive on it's own... as in, without US aid, foreign policy, and having a revolving door of dual citizenship

I bring up the $8billion in aide they get a year but acknowledge that the little jews don't get any of it.

during islamic bombings and the chimpout yesterday, they are mostly discussing jews who profit from importing moslems

support for Israel / Zionism but at the same time their overall views on Jews cannot avoid leaving one

Wanting jews to leave our lands and go to Israel is the definition of Zionism.

He should forget about the black vote. He’s not getting it.

He is polling at 1/3 of the black vote in some states. I would say 15% of blacks realize the left favors Hispanics more than them.

if I were in a bunker alongside a die-hard Communist ally I just wouldn't bring up economics.

Why would you let a die hard communist into your bunker?

the tattooed up degenerates in the Aryan brotherhood have nothing to do with the alt right

I know if I went to prison I would join the AB, if I couldn't get solitary.

I'm still in the middle of the learning curve on this and trying to decide if and where I should invest

Invest in guns ammo and 6 months of shelf stable food before the election. You can buy freeze dried nitrogen packed food good for 30 years or go by the Mormon prep page http://modernsurvivalblog.com/food-storage-calculator-for-one-year-bulk-supply/

Blogger SirHamster September 21, 2016 8:01 PM  

Markku wrote:Between these two, "associating" and "yoking" I have heard only one suggestion that might ostensibly be yoking, and therefore forbidden: a significant business partnership, where a Christian and a non-Christian start a company together.

I can think of another - blood-brotherhood. Some versions may run afoul of swearing oaths, but take the OT example of David & Jonathan - swearing a lifelong loyalty.

It's like marriage in commitment, but non-sexual. Obviously does not work if one is going to Heaven and another to Hell.

Blogger SirHamster September 21, 2016 8:04 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:You know what I love? I just love it when Atheists tell me what Scripture means. I'm pretty sure your opinion on what it means is irrelevant, not just because if they were capable of understanding scripture, they'd not be an Atheist, but also because they deny the validity of the Scriptures a priori.

Atheists proving they are fools are the best argument against being an Atheist.

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 21, 2016 8:05 PM  

Eh, sorry, that was low-energy. I went for a run and the endorphins are making me stupid.

Blogger Markku September 21, 2016 8:05 PM  

For spergy atheists: This is not the kind of command where if you guess wrong, you go to hell. It's a heuristic for making life decisions. If you are about to make a commitment with a non-Christian, you are to think, "if they start pulling THIS way, do they pull me with them?" If you conclude that the answer is yes, then you don't make the commitment.

Blogger Desiderius September 21, 2016 8:07 PM  

"Of the Alt-White with whom I've spoken, more than half have openly attacked me, most in a very spergy manner. I'm not saying the entire Alt-White is like that, but that's something that the more rational and balanced Alt-Whitists will have to address.

I think it would be INCREDIBLY stupid for the Alt-White to add the Alt-West to its copious list of enemies. But that's not for those of us who are not Alt-White to decide. And I would advise the Alt-West to not get into it with those Alt-Whitists who do want to fight, but simply ignore them and talk only with those willing to cooperate."

This.

The Alt-West is a full-throated adversary to the anti-white forces.

That should suffice for the Alt-White.

Blogger GFR September 21, 2016 8:08 PM  

@217
.
The pilots who shot down the RAF Spitfires and the Mosquito had surnames Goodlin, McElroy, and Peake. They were Christians and either Canadians or Americans.
.
They weren't Israelis you lying sack of shit.
.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahal_(Israel)

Blogger Alec Rawls September 21, 2016 8:10 PM  

The Tea Party was/is people, as VD likes to note about nations. They were/are the informed part of the Republican base. What they correctly understand is not going to change because the name changes. Names are not magic dirt. So if YOUR name gets adopted thanks to the strategic efforts of our Democratic Party opponents, prepare for it to come to represent the same informed part of the broad conservative base that the Tea Party did/does.

Anonymous BigGayKoranBurner September 21, 2016 8:16 PM  

Robert, I'm saying this because I care: eventually your choices are to get on the plane or to get on the train

BIBI told French jews to come to Israel & that he was preparing space for them. He told the religious jews to get on planes and boats as soon as they could, but secular jews should wait for the trains.

Adriano I expect that you can learn something from the horse's mouth: dailystormer.

At least go to Stormfront. I look there to see reports of crimes against gays by blacks/browns. They report crimes against gays that leftists & gay media totally ignore. I then post the local links on gay sites not using the "5 niggers kill faggot in Philly" stormfront link

Blogger VD September 21, 2016 8:16 PM  

They weren't Israelis you lying sack of shit.

The Hasbari remind me of the Greek father in that movie who thinks everything was invented by Greeks. Frankly, I'm surprised American schoolkids don't believe the IDF won WWII by storming the beaches of Normany.

Blogger ZhukovG September 21, 2016 8:19 PM  

I think it's obvious that a White ethno-state is ludicrous as far as Europe is concerned. But I also have serious doubts that a single White ethno-state can form in the United States. Also there are other ethnic groups that may also be able to claim real estate in North America. I think in the coming years the American Union is going to be just as undesirable as the European one.

When it all falls apart; who gets the launch codes? Perhaps, First Warchief Vox of the Lakota-Cheyenne Confederation.

Blogger Desiderius September 21, 2016 8:20 PM  

"If all he meant was marriage, he could've just said marriage."

Jesus broke bread with sinners and tax collectors, leaving pharisees like you aghast. You're not very good at making converts, are you?

Anonymous GreyS September 21, 2016 8:23 PM  

@87
But since identity politics have been shoved down our throats, millions of White Americans are accepting we have to embrace our own identity politics just to stop being ripped off by the rest of the world. We used to be rich enough not to mind the petty theft, but it's gotten out of hand and it's time to put a stop to it.

So the Alt-White, though it started as Stormfront, will change as it grows.


It will be interesting. Seems to me the Nazi white will either be subsumed by a larger, more productive, more intelligent, more original and much more creative group of white-firsters or be left behind as the large majority of the Alt-R movement becomes essentially what VD calls Alt-West.

To me, it feels like the Alt-West has taken control of the train and unhooked the caboose full of Nazis who are shaking their fists and yelling at the train as it pulls further away.

Blogger Markku September 21, 2016 8:23 PM  

But I also have serious doubts that a single White ethno-state can form in the United States.

No, absolutely not ONE. Hilarity will ensue when North Americans go to the South to say "hello, fellow whites, we have come to rescue you from the blacks and Mexicans! Join us in a single, white state!"

Anonymous BGKB September 21, 2016 8:28 PM  

Unless you yourself making that claim are working on your 7th kid, whites will not outbreed the brown waves.

If not for welfare/food stamp/section 8 Latrina wouldn't be having 21 crackbabies.

Blogger Desiderius September 21, 2016 8:30 PM  

Nate,

"They were the loser that no one remembers."

Takes all kinds. The loser that no one remembered in my high school class was named John Chokrach. The name fit - overweight, dressed like pigpen - and literally no one remembered him when he showed up to our 20th reunion. After he jogged my memory, I remembered hanging out with him some on the days when the smell wasn't so bad out of a sense of Christian charity I guess, plus he had a decent sense of humor.

He's now a multi-millionaire, looks like a million bucks, and has a beautiful family.

Let's leave the high school politics to SJWs.

Anonymous Grinder September 21, 2016 8:31 PM  

234. Josh (the gayest thing here) September 21, 2016 5:31 PM


The alt west has white babies. The alt white does not.


Still trying to drive wedges between people who are natural allies against Marxism/Globalism? This and variations of this are the M.O. of (((those))) who launched the most devastating brother wars of the last century. Even on this site, on a daily basis, entryists keep trying to creep into the alt-right movement while redefining it away from the crucial point 14.

You can call me a 1488er but that has never meant any gassings or extermination. It has always meant that Jews must leave white countries entirely. Violence is only necessary because those who hate our people resort to violence to attempt to silence us. I am very satisfied with the Alt-Right platform that Vox offered recently. For me, the 14 Words are the main, essential point. Any attempt to redefine, downplay or deprioritize it in order to be more welcoming is a deal-breaker for me. Everything else ranks below it. My interpretation of scripture accords with the 14 Words entirely and while I feel that a non-Marxian socialist system would work well, I am not so gung ho about it that I would oppose fellow supporters of the 14 Words just because they were resolute free enterprise/private property types unless it was to a degree that harmed the survival of the white race.

It is very good that a need to guard against (((entryists))) has been recognized here. That is the biggest danger the Alt-Right faces: destruction from the inside.

Blogger Desiderius September 21, 2016 8:32 PM  

Markku,

"When you see a Finn, you realize that you didn't know 'white' before."

Somehow Finns are the ur-whites (see the Winter War). Maybe that's why Hungary is leading the charge against Merkel's boner.

Blogger ZhukovG September 21, 2016 8:32 PM  

@Markku, heehee, I admit as a Southern Nationalist, I do have a dream or two. Mostly involving the First National Flag flying over the burned out ruins of Washington DC.

Deo Vindice

Blogger Desiderius September 21, 2016 8:34 PM  

The Forest Finns were also the ones who introduced the log cabin, that ultimate symbol of traditional Americana, to the United States.

Blogger Markku September 21, 2016 8:34 PM  

I know of one similar case, though to my knowledge he didn't have particular personal hygiene issues. But he was at the bottom of the totem pole and now is a rich entrepreneur.

However, pretty much all the rest that I have checked up on or heard of have ended up pretty much exactly where high school would predict.

Blogger Desiderius September 21, 2016 8:39 PM  

"the rest that I have checked up on or heard of have ended up pretty much exactly where high school would predict."

Fair enough, but as a point of accuracy I seriously doubt Mr. Get-out-of-my-Alt-Right is an omega. He's either the usual gamma with delusions of grandeur or an alpha from a very small pond.

Blogger Daniel September 21, 2016 8:52 PM  

This

Blogger Jew613 September 21, 2016 9:16 PM  

VD/GFR, I never said the IAF pilots who shot down the RAF planes were Israeli or Jewish. Only that RAF pilots fought for the Egyptians in the 48 War.

Blogger Nate September 21, 2016 9:29 PM  

"The Hasbari remind me of the Greek father in that movie who thinks everything was invented by Greeks."

Well...l Everything that matters. From indoor plumbing to climate control.

While we were formulating the Republic... your people had not yet discovered advanced concepts... like the wheel... and were still eating each other.

Blogger Nate September 21, 2016 9:44 PM  

"Fair enough, but as a point of accuracy I seriously doubt Mr. Get-out-of-my-Alt-Right is an omega. He's either the usual gamma with delusions of grandeur or an alpha from a very small pond."

You are very much mistaken.

Alt-White is positively ridden with omegas. They aren't gammas. Gammas sabotage deliberately so they can say it doesn't matter when they lose. Omegas don't do that. Omegas want to succeed. They simply cannot.

They do things over and over again that they honestly think will work. And they always fail.

Tell me that doesn't sound like the Alt-White. Note how they cling to their believed White-Genocide rhetoric... even after its been proven over and over to be ineffective.

Blogger Desiderius September 21, 2016 10:06 PM  

Nate,

"They do things over and over again that they honestly think will work. And they always fail.

Tell me that doesn't sound like the Alt-White. Note how they cling to their believed White-Genocide rhetoric... even after its been proven over and over to be ineffective."

Most omegas I know have trouble getting motivated enough to do anything, let alone over and over again. The alt-Whites you describe sound like secret-king gammas.

Anonymous Tannerite September 21, 2016 10:10 PM  

VD,

I have trouble with this. A lot of trouble. Look, I agree about the immigration issue, the crime statistics, and a host of other data points. You're right, and I ain't going to argue those points.

But these Alt-White people are no good either. Okay so maybe I don't attack them right now, because they're shooting at the enemy so to speak. I've got bigger fish to fry at the moment. But these kinds of people really messed up Germany with their bid for power and racial domination. Would Merkel and her cronies be able to pull off a stunt like this migrant invasion without oblique reference to how bad Germany was in the past? The Nazis ruined their own country, both at the time by getting it conquered in part by Russia, and down the line by giving the Merkelites their excuse to play a little ethnic masochism.

I don't want these colossal fuckups anywhere near my side. And that's not even remotely getting into the moral implications of their ideology. The enemy of my enemy is not always my friend. Maybe the tactical situation means I deal with them later. But that's all I'd ever concede for them.

I don't like them. I don't like their ideology. And their track record is crap. Yeah, the globalists are much worse at present, but that's because the globalists have the power.

I'll put it bluntly. I want to save the West and the Christian world. And I don't want third worlders imported into western countries. And I don't want Islam in them at all. But I also don't want to have anything to do with Stormfronters or the Alt-White either.

Blogger Markku September 21, 2016 10:13 PM  

They are undeniably part of the Alt-Right unless they themselves decide to abandon the label. So, your sole recourse is to shoot left without identifying yourself as Alt-Right.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) September 21, 2016 10:19 PM  

Tell me that doesn't sound like the Alt-White. Note how they cling to their believed White-Genocide rhetoric... even after its been proven over and over to be ineffective.

Saying white genocide is bad rhetoric is white genocide...

Anonymous Deplorable Jack Amok September 21, 2016 10:42 PM  

Hilarity will ensue when North Americans go to the South to say "hello, fellow whites, we have come to rescue you from the blacks and Mexicans! Join us in a single, white state!"

What might work though is "Hello, fellow Whites! Whaddya say to hanging a few traitorous bastards in D.C. and signing some sort of interstate trade agreement?"

Blogger Nate September 21, 2016 11:01 PM  

"Most omegas I know have trouble getting motivated enough to do anything, let alone over and over again. The alt-Whites you describe sound like secret-king gammas."

Nah. You confusing real life with digi life.

Very different. Omegas often have a very active digital life.

Blogger Leo Littlebook in Shenzhen September 21, 2016 11:04 PM  

McVeigh and Breivik are both alt white spergs.

Trump is Alt Lite.

Who does the Alt West claim?

Blogger Noah B. September 21, 2016 11:07 PM  

@299 Why would you accept the premise that the actions of dead people justify Merkel opening the gates for invaders? Her attempt to use the Nazi regime to justify her treason should accomplish nothing, other than the revelation of her own evil nature.

Blogger Desiderius September 21, 2016 11:18 PM  

Nate,

"Omegas often have a very active digital life."

True.

Blogger Unknown September 21, 2016 11:26 PM  

Vox do you favor Greg Johnson's idea of homelands in the U.S. for the different races or would you favor people going back to there homeland of origin and maybe creating a homeland in Africa for blacks who've been in America?

I prefer the latter.

Anonymous Full-Fledged Fiasco September 21, 2016 11:33 PM  

"The alt west has white babies. The alt white does not."

Damn, a good comment by Josh... This is even rarer than the rarest of Pepe's.

Anonymous Anonymous September 21, 2016 11:33 PM  

@304

Brevick was Alt West sperg.

Blogger IM2L844 September 21, 2016 11:38 PM  

Yep, Jared Taylor is who I was trying to think of thanks to the both of you who helped me out. I've got a lot of different perspectives to catch up on.

Blogger Noah B. September 21, 2016 11:43 PM  

@234 The alt west has white babies. The alt white does not.

Babies? Plural? Damn Josh, it's too soon.

Blogger Ian Miguel Martin September 21, 2016 11:56 PM  

"Technically I should be on the multi-culti side... I just know that where they are leading is genocidal to whites, and an end to a civil, lawful, society. But I can't join with the other side if their intention is also genocide."

If the left wins I’m shoahed on account of my convictions. If the alt-right wins I’m shoahed on account of my appearance.
Iknowthatfeelbro.jpg

Anonymous Anonymous September 22, 2016 12:29 AM  

@Samuel Nock

"Even Alt White and Alt West can't live together?"

Only as long as we have common enemies. Once we've won, we will become rivals. That's why Vox said "long term"

See also: human nature

Anonymous Anonymous September 22, 2016 12:53 AM  

266. Robert Rogers of the Rangers September 21, 2016 7:16 PM
In least we are justified this time....



why would we be justified this time? various of the Indians on the western frontier of the 13 colonies practiced rape, torture, mutilation of prisoners and the dead, cannibalism, kidnapping, theft and wanton destruction and murder.

IF Robert Rogers was not justified in doing what he did to the Indians
THEN we have no justification to defend ourselves under any circumstance.

now, fuck off you pansy.



271. Markku September 21, 2016 7:40 PM
When you see a Finn, you realize that you didn't know "white" before.



i saw a Finn ... now i realize i'm no more White than Jew.

https://media.giphy.com/media/Vq5djeWOqbmSc/giphy.gif



283. Desiderius September 21, 2016 8:20 PM
Jesus broke bread with sinners and tax collectors, leaving pharisees like you aghast. You're not very good at making converts, are you?



that's not "yoking yourself to an unbeliever", you twit.



295. Jew613 September 21, 2016 9:16 PM
Only that RAF pilots fought for the Egyptians in the 48 War.


please to be providing list.

even Israel acknowledges that the majority of the Israeli airforce was gentile.

unless the Egyptian airforce was likewise majority gentile, the way you presented that situation originally was intentional deceit.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable September 22, 2016 1:35 AM  

Ezekiel Cassandros wrote:Depends on what you decide the "left-right" axis is, really.

Well that's the base axis; the one with the most interesting variations. So the choice of left-right tells you a lot about a culture, while it is wise to be cynical of the false ways that all the other axes are crammed down by those with actually one-dimensional paradigms (or just hoping to fool you), while also being aware of how they can be tied together (like socialism being inversely proportional with liberty).

It could be monarchist parliamentarism vs. populist parliamentarism. Or global socialism vs. national socialism. Or socialist cronyism vs. capitalist cronyism. But regardless, you can tell a lot about a society by its primary axis of dispute (the adjective), and also its primary axis of action (the noun).

And what we're seeing in this election is where the noun is being marginalized and new energy is being introduced. We actually have a two-axis election, cronyist globalism vs. populist nationalism. The bureaucrat-supremacists vs. the People.

How awesome is that?!

Blogger SciVo September 22, 2016 1:39 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey September 22, 2016 1:43 AM  

Milo is useful up to a certain point, and then we get rid of him.

The "Alt-Lite" and "Alt-West" are disposable.

Anonymous SciVo September 22, 2016 1:56 AM  

Ian Miguel Martin wrote:If the left wins I’m shoahed on account of my convictions. If the alt-right wins I’m shoahed on account of my appearance.

Iknowthatfeelbro.jpg


Oh, don't be such a dramatic pansy. Would you rather be soul-killed or deported? Choose carefully.

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey September 22, 2016 1:58 AM  

Milo is useful up to a certain point, and then we get rid of him.

The "Alt-Lite" and "Alt-West" are disposable.

Anonymous Jack Amok September 22, 2016 2:34 AM  

But regardless, you can tell a lot about a society by its primary axis of dispute (the adjective), and also its primary axis of action (the noun).

Yeah, the primary dysfunction of our recent politics is that the de jure political divides don't match up with the de facto ones. Tea Party and Occupy were manifestations of the divergence and the old coalitions are breaking up. New ones will form in the wake of that breakup, but just what form they'll take is still unknown.

Myself, I hope the new divisions are about how to best restore Western Civilization, but they could be how best to lord it over a bunch of serfs. We'll see.

Blogger Leo Littlebook in Shenzhen September 22, 2016 2:41 AM  

"Brevick was Alt West sperg."

He cares first, last and only about whites, and is as anti-Christ as Hitler. To the extent he appears Alt West, it is out of desire to build a coalition, and avoid NSDAP mistakes.

Breivik and McVeigh took pains to appear mainstream in order to avoid blowback onto their tiny true affiliation.


Acting alone for abstract justifications like the unabomber is spergy. We're poor liars resistant to social conditioning.

Pastor Steven Anderson is Alt west, and shed blood to stop internal border checkpoints. Also a sperg. Any others?

Anonymous SciVo September 22, 2016 3:01 AM  

If you object to the identification of these groups, then either you belong to more than one or none at all. Existential threats crystallize groups. They're real.

Alt-White: Anglo-Americanism is the way forward, but Hitler wasn't all bad.
Alt-West: Vlad the Impaler and La Reconquista would know what to do. Deus Vult!
Alt-Lite: I don't want to sound racist, but there are some real problems.

Obviously as Alt-West I have the most emotional identification with it, but I did my best to be fair to the other two.

Anonymous SciVo September 22, 2016 3:13 AM  

I can tell that I'm probably misrepresenting Alt-White since I got that from articles that I bookmarked and comments that I agreed with, which is not a good way to develop an objective perspective.

Anonymous Deplorable Jack Amok September 22, 2016 3:14 AM  

As a minor aside, Zionism shouldn't be incompatible with 1488 thought. The original Nazi theology held that there was a vital link between the Volk the and Land, and believed Jews had lost their Volk-soul when they lost their homeland.

So restoring a Jewish homeland should at least in theory allow for the restoration of the Jewish Volk-soul.

And based on what we know (or perhaps are re-learning) about Nations, the basic idea may not be all that looney.

Anonymous Charlie Baud September 22, 2016 3:23 AM  

@121

Don't just casually take the Lord's name in vain, or you're no better than a faggot or any other degenerate.

Anonymous DissidentRight September 22, 2016 4:11 AM  

(and they're also National Socialists and Fascist within the Alt Right. I know that makes you cucked Right types uncomfortable).

1. The only place white nationalism could exist is in America, since Europeans already have their own distinct nationalities.
2. Socialism is about as American as Islam. Fascism is about as American as nobility.

Do the math. Expecting Americans to become Nazis makes about as much sense as expecting blacks to become strict-constructionists.

Besides, America is going to end up looking a lot like Europe. The North-South split will just be the beginning. There will Texas Nationalists, Midwestern Nationalists, New England Nationalists, etc. There will be a bunch of independent white nations.

Trying to unite all whites in one super-nation was a disaster in America (Lincoln’s War) and in Europe (EU), and in Europe (Hitler), and in America (mass European immigration).

Imperialism never works. There is no one white nation. We are many. Let’s keep it that way.

(By the way if an American is going to romanticize a particular white nation, it should be the Confederacy.)

Blogger VD September 22, 2016 4:26 AM  

I'll put it bluntly. I want to save the West and the Christian world. And I don't want third worlders imported into western countries. And I don't want Islam in them at all. But I also don't want to have anything to do with Stormfronters or the Alt-White either.

What is more important, saving the West or your feelings? Sometimes you have to choose, and the Alt-White is vastly preferable to the globalists.

Anonymous Anonymous September 22, 2016 6:04 AM  

@321

Brevik did not care about Jews at all, and if anything was mainly anti-Islam. He was highly influenced by Neo-con type thinking and non-explicitly racial sites like Gates of Vienna.

He may not have liked Christianity, but his influences were Christendom. In any case, his indifference to the JQ definitely makes him not Alt White.

Blogger Dirk Manly September 22, 2016 6:10 AM  

@65

Who the fuck cares?

Why is it OUR responsibility to take care of the satanic state of Judea?

Blogger Obi One Bilderberger September 22, 2016 6:12 AM  

Alt-White is for whites only. That's blood libel.

Alt-West is pan-racial and pan-national, which should not be confused with being multicultural or equalitarian or pro-diversity in the egalitarian sense. Too many buzz words, sounds like something a SJW would say

Alt-White is primarily concerned with white nationalism, and secondarily concerned with European nationalisms. Within the Alt-White, there is already a discussion concerning what the difference between a generic white nationalism and the specific European nationalisms are; I suspect there will eventually be a further distinction between American and European branches of the Alt-White.
That's nonsense, there are people who talk/argue/pearl clutch on internet forums BUT we all understand that ALL White homelands must be saved and protected and saved.

While the Alt-West supports white nationalism, that is not its sole concern, as it supports all nationalism, European or otherwise.
That's not exactly true, bit cheeky, never heard anyone from Alt White say that no one else is entitled to be nationalistic, we just might think it's hilariously stupid if you are nationalistic but still wipe your arse with your left hand and can't built a solid bridge, but as long as you are nationalistic in your own country go for broke mate.

Alt-White is neutral to hostile on Christianity. Not my experience at all, they are at least aware of how many Christians are being killed daily.
Alt-West is strongly pro-Christian, as it believes Christianity to be one of the three pillars of Western Civilization aka the historical Christendom. Pro-Christian includes, but does not require, actually being a Christian. Nice logic there brah
That's hilarious, how is it exactly that you manifest your pro christian stance when one is being killed every 10 minutes somewhere on this planet, great job, no ones even heard of it, you are supposed to be on the cutting edge of media and I haven't heard any mention of you pro Christians about how many are massacred each day, YUK!

Alt-White is neutral to hostile on Israel. Someone has to, everyone else is a spineless drooling sycophant to is ra el.
Alt-West is pro-Israel, as it supports all nationalist homelands.
God said no homeland for you till i come back, again not listening to God you shall incur his wrath

Alt-White is hostile to very hostile to all Jews everywhere. Someone has to do the dirty, dangerous work.
Alt-West is friendly to Israeli Jews while hostile to globalist Jews and anti-nationalist Jews.
This is a fairytale uninformed romantic version of history.

Alt-White has a romantic view of National Socialism. Yeah maybe, they were good times.
Alt-West regards it as a suicidally stupid but semiotically useful form of German nationalism. Just another little slogan to shell stuff

Alt-White is neutral to pro-white imperialism. That's blood libel
Alt-West is anti-imperialism, as it regards imperalism as being societally enervating and self-destructive.
Anti imperialism and pro israel don't fit in the same sentence.

the Romans got eclectic, that got them destroyed, cherry picking bits and pieces, little logical fallacies , a few bits of circular reasoning, bit of wishful thinking, bit of voodoo mumbo jumbo a philosophy does not make.

Blogger Leo Littlebook in Shenzhen September 22, 2016 8:28 AM  

> Brevik did not care about Jews at all, and if anything was mainly anti-Islam.

He was Norwegian and said the US, UK and France have a Jewish Problem.

Eliminating Israel means the Jews scatter to cover. The correct Alt White move is to promise eternal Zionism, move all the Jews there, then nuke it.

> He was highly influenced by Neo-con type thinking and non-explicitly racial sites like Gates of Vienna.

Nobody is pure enough to be Alt White, therefore Alt White has never done anything wrong. But it's the fastest growing movement!

Alt Whites are supposed to practice taqqiya and incremental demands like Hitler, but any Alt Whiter who says something indicating taqqiya isn't Alt White!

> He may not have liked Christianity, but his influences were Christendom.

Christendom minus Jesus Christ, the Jewish Old Testament, and browns equals what?

A Norwegian Alt White doesn't gain Alt West points for being non-imperialist; it's just a matter of geopolitics and geography.

Anonymous ZhukovG September 22, 2016 9:50 AM  

I had a lot more respect for Alt-White before I started reading their posts.

A couple appear sane and would make good comrades. But a lot of the rest seem deadset on stealing defeat from the jaws of victory.

Blogger Gunnarvoncowtown von Cowtown September 22, 2016 10:01 AM  

This is going to go like Vox's SMV taxonomy from a few years ago.

"WHAT THE HELL IS THIS SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE 'SPERG BULLSHIT?!?

***Elapsed Time - 1 Month***

"OK, this actually does make a lot of sense."

Anonymous Heiliosphere September 22, 2016 10:09 AM  

What the hell is this "alt white" "alt west" faggotry and what is this stupid shill website? The alt-right is on DS you pseudo-subverts. If it ain't alt-reich in ain't alright. You'll be writing essays on our rise when we're already in power.

Join us or F-off

Anonymous GreyS September 22, 2016 10:50 AM  

I had a lot more respect for Alt-White before I started reading their posts.

A couple appear sane and would make good comrades. But a lot of the rest seem deadset on stealing defeat from the jaws of victory.


Same here. Granted, it's often difficult to differentiate the JDL trolls from the True Believers but man there are some idiots in that movement.

They are no more THE representatives of whites than the tinfoil overnight gas station attendant in downtown Pittsburgh is the representative of the city of Pittsburgh or than the spergy Redskin stat hound is the rep for Washington football fans.

Crowing on the internet about white superiority doesn't mean much if you haven't contributed to that superiority whatsoever. Most of those loudmouths couldn't run an all-white car wash, let alone an all-white state or country.

Blogger S1AL September 22, 2016 10:51 AM  

I'm starting to wonder if Vox linked to the Hitlerites just to say "This is what actual Nazis look like. Don't be like them."

Anonymous ZhukovG September 22, 2016 11:25 AM  

True, it could be trolls attempting to drive a wedge. But, many of them sound sincere, if extremely myopic.

Blogger Leo Littlebook in Shenzhen September 22, 2016 11:39 AM  

White=Good is an extremely simple idea and thus has a lower intellectual barrier to entry than reading Vox Populi.

Rather than taking this as proof of superiority, Alt West should realize it means Alt White has meathead footsoldiers.

Anonymous ZhukovG September 22, 2016 12:07 PM  

Then again we must accept that history can take strange twists and turns.

To respond to Heliosphere above; I would far rather write a congratulatory essay about the rise to power of the Alt-White(Reich), than pen a lamentation of Globalism's final victory.

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros September 22, 2016 3:18 PM  

"White=Good is an extremely simple idea and thus has a lower intellectual barrier to entry than reading Vox Populi.

Rather than taking this as proof of superiority, Alt West should realize it means Alt White has meathead footsoldiers."

This man knows the score.
Vox tells meatheads to fuck off and refuses to dumb down to the lowest common demonimator.
Alt-White troll armies embrace the lowest common denominator and herd them towards the enemy.

Those who can understand the nuance in the narratives, do. Those who cannot, are brought along for the ride anyway.

Blogger Pineapple-in-Chief September 22, 2016 5:06 PM  

https://dissidentright.com/2016/08/11/right-wing-intersectionality/

We can discuss whose emphasis or approach is better, but the important thing is 'no enemies to your right'. Even when you don't agree with them, they provide the energy that will fuel your more moderate proposals.

Blogger Robert What? September 22, 2016 5:38 PM  

@Aeoli,

Unlike many other American Jews, I am a supporter of the Second Amendment and a gun owner. Are you suggesting that Jewish people be disarmed? Come and get 'em.

Blogger yoghi.llama September 22, 2016 5:40 PM  

If you are going to make it something other than marriage, then you need to give some explanation about how the same author, to the same congregation, wrote that you can "associate" with non-Christians, as I quoted.

One chapter need not abrogate the other. 1 Corinthians 5 is taking a more sober and pragmatic approach. The focus in this chapter is not pagans, but Christians who are backsliders and hypocrites. Apostle Paul says that well-behaved Christians should shun badly-behaved Christians. Pagans are an afterthought. They are only mentioned to emphasize that the badly-behaved Christians really must be taken to task and sorted out. (I agree shunning all pagans would be impractical at the time, because the Christians were presumably still a minority.) 2 Corinthians 6 is taking a more mystical and expansive approach: the focus of this chapter is pagans and their Satanic, unwholesome nature. Their behaviour is not discussed, it is their inner nature that is unclean.

Also, often when something sounds just plain strange in your English Bible, like this "unequally yoked together" - isn't that an oddly specific thing to say?

It is odd. Is there no simpler Koine word for marriage? (The word heterozygote has made it into English, but not in religious jargon.) Pointing back to Greek is always good, but saying there is no English translation is a cop out. There have been 20 centuries to find a translation. If one could not be found, the Greek word could have been adopted into English. This is the same cop out Muslims use when they say this or that term in the Qur'ān can't be translated out of Arabic. This excuse doesn't wash.

So, still not sure how can one be pro-Christian, while not being a Christian. If a metaphysical system says I go to a Lake of Fire forever for disagreeng with it, it's hard to be "pro" that system in an honest way.

It would be great to be temporarily yoked together in any enterprise which terrorizes Marxists or scatters Saracens, but then, the straightforward and accurate way to describe the moral basis of that yokage would be to say we are anti-Marxist and anti-Islam, not that we are pro-Christian.

Blogger Robert What? September 22, 2016 5:56 PM  

@Adriano,

"Don't even try that kike entryism bullshit "hey goyz err guys, I'm white just like you ..."

Hmm... what kind of a name is "Adriano"? Sounds Italian. A lot of African co-mingling over the millennium especially in the southern parts of Italy. Have you checked your lineage? I have as much claim to being part of the Alt-Right as Vox does. He will be the first to admit his non-white heritage. If you hate on me, you gotta hate on him too. And possibly yourself especially if your family were from southern Italy.

Blogger Markku September 22, 2016 7:51 PM  

Pagans are an afterthought.

Yes, indeed they are, but we happen to learn from the afterthought that some degree of association is fine and necessary. So, from this we learn that there is one thing that is necessary, and another thing that is forbidden. So, now the thing to figure out is what goes into basket 1 and what into basket 2. Everybody agrees that marriage goes into basket 2. Normal, everyday interaction must go to basket 1. So, now a few options, like a significant business partnership where the partners could really screw each other's lives if they made stupid choices, is on the table for being forbidden. I agree that the set of forbidden things must be greater than 1 because otherwise it would have explicitly said "marriage". But I think they are extraordinary alliances, such as can't be easily gotten out of if it goes badly. That's what the imagery of "yoking" brings to mind. When the oxen are yoked, they have no option except to proceed in the same direction.

So, still not sure how can one be pro-Christian, while not being a Christian. If a metaphysical system says I go to a Lake of Fire forever for disagreeng with it, it's hard to be "pro" that system in an honest way.

Because if you are right and we are wrong and nobody goes to hell, then Christianity happened to be the one religion where the commandment for us about yourself is "If possible, so far as it depends upon you, live peaceably with all." This is considerably better than the religions currently competing with us - especially Islam. We may have seemed smug and superior, thinking you would go to hell, but that's not a huge problem. And if we're right, then you are going to hell no matter what. Doesn't matter what we think.

There is much less downside for you about living next to Christians, than living with anyone else except those who believe exactly the same as you. Now, if you believe you can pull THAT off, and make the majority believe the same as you, then that is of course the superior alternative from your perspective. And for a generation or so, that seemed indeed feasible. But now everybody is going back to religions. Even Alt-Whites are going to Odinism. So, it looks like you are going to live with one religion or the other. And your best bet is Christianity.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants September 22, 2016 9:42 PM  

I've lived in the Deep South, Bible Belt, all my life, almost 5 decades. I grew up going to church, voluntarily, and tbh, I've never had an big issues with organized religion, but yesterday was a reminder of WHY I have become extremely hostile and completely against it. The local Methodist churches in Stone Mtn., GA, were among the religious refugee groups who facilitated 68 refugees becoming residents into an area with a 75% black pop & a double the national unemployment number, and most importantly to me, 45 min from my home. The possibility that these churches aren't getting paid off by the government is exactly nil.

Blogger Markku September 22, 2016 9:49 PM  

Yep, if it comes to that point, then fellow Christian or not, I'm going to rat the fuck out of everybody who I know to have participated in bringing Muslims to the country.

Anonymous Jack Amok September 23, 2016 1:47 AM  

what goes into basket 1 and what into basket 2

Everything is baskets these days. I'm not sure I can remember the last time I used something that could legitimately be called a basket. Bags, buckets, backpacks, sure. But baskets?

Blogger Aeoli Pera September 23, 2016 1:24 PM  

Robert What? wrote:@Aeoli,

Unlike many other American Jews, I am a supporter of the Second Amendment and a gun owner. Are you suggesting that Jewish people be disarmed? Come and get 'em.


Nope, I support your right to own a tank.

Just let it be, you obviously didn't follow the conversation. It happens.

Blogger yoghi.llama September 23, 2016 5:35 PM  

But now everybody is going back to religions.

Oh not in northwest Europe they aren't.

There is much less downside for you about living next to Christians, than living with anyone else except those who believe exactly the same as you.

I can operate with people who behave like me: whites from west of the Hajnal line. To a lesser extent: non-whites, fluent in English, educated beyond high school, not more than nominally Muslim, and who are from territories of the recently deceased British Empire. They come very close, sometimes. In either case, being Christian has nothing much to do with it.

Sure I may associate and co-operate with a Christian, but we are never going to have a Dale Carnegie kind of open, optimistic and positive alliance, if 2 Corinthians 6 is what you actually believe. If, on the other hand, you actually consider those verses a sad embarrassment best explained away and forgotten, I suggest you are in dire need of a stiffer broom, and a bigger carpet to sweep them under.

the thing to figure out is what goes into basket 1 and what into basket 2.

The scriptures leave wiggle room. People are naturally uncertain of the interpretation of vague and expansive verses, so there will be a sliding scale of behaviour. Some Christians will put as much as circumstances allow into basket 1, others will put as much as they can get away with into basket 2. You will notice that this is the way Jews and Muslims operate too. So then the only question for me, as a heathen, becomes: what is the LC50 of a specific Abrahamic faith in a non-Abrahamic society? I estimate for Jews: 1–2%; Muslims: 5–10%; Christians: 50–90%. So a country which is 90% Christian may be better than one which is 5% Muslim, but this does not make it good.

Alt Christ says: Christianity created the West, and without it the West will degenerate. Yes, Christianity moulded the West, but it wasn't the only factor. We don't know what the West would look like if Mithraism, Stoicism or Manichaeism had overcome. In my imagination, not much different … but we'll never know. And if Christianity creates recognizably European-type societies, then why aren't all of Latin America, southern Africa, the Caribbean, the Philippines, and Papua New Guinea now recognizably European by culture?

Thought experiment: a Finn is abducted by aliens, forced to travel in time, and to choose between certain lands to live in. He has to choose between Rome, the Amazon, and Papua, 2050 years ago – he chooses Rome, surely.

He has to choose between a 100% black and Christian Haiti 500 years from now, or, a 100% white and Asatrú Iceland 500 years from now – I bet he chooses Iceland!

So although I am not Alt White, I have a small measure of sympathy for them here. I think they are right to worry that the Alt Christ will turn out to be freeloaders and 5th columnists. Time will tell.

Blogger Markku September 23, 2016 6:38 PM  

you actually consider those verses a sad embarrassment best explained away and forgotten

No, you DO belong to Satan, and you ARE going to hell.

why aren't all of Latin America, southern Africa, the Caribbean, the Philippines, and Papua New Guinea now recognizably European by culture?

Catholics allowed them to retain too much of their pagan culture within their form or Christianity. Still, they are orders of magnitude better than where they started.

I bet he chooses Iceland!

Correct. Any and all white societies before any non-white society whatsoever, except certain Oriental ones. I don't know if this is because Whites are just objectively so much better (we ARE better, but are we THAT much better?) or just because they are so much more likely to recognize me as one of them due to my physical similarity.

Blogger yoghi.llama September 24, 2016 4:23 AM  

are we THAT much better?

It depends. I would score Finns 90% for being decent people and wanting to live amongst them myself, and Xhosas 20%, so the difference there is stark. Greeks and Swedes I would give 75%, and Tswanas 45%, which is less stark. Albanians are definitely racially white, but they think and behave exactly as Sunnis, so, 0%. The Khoisan-Dutch halfbreeds called "Cape Coloureds" would be 40%, because they do think and behave as Westerners, just not always good ones.

Different tribes have different tendencies and achievements. The musical accomplishments of the White South African tribe do not match those of the African-American tribe. The scientific discoveries of the Xhosa and Sotho tribes do not measure up to those of the English and Germans. The poetry of the Turkish and Arabic tribes are far beneath the Persians'. The theological works of the Europe tribes when compared to Tibet are as a thin film of dust on a golden chalice.

Catholics allowed them to retain too much of their pagan culture within their form or Christianity. Still, they are orders of magnitude better than where they started.

You may not have lived in Rhodesia or South Africa. The missionaries were mostly Protestant/Anglican, and nobody has been made an order of magnitude better, I promise. Paganism is still there. Urbanized Blacks who rise up to the middle class tend to be embarrassed about their heritage and just act Christian, but for the rural masses there is no contradiction. They will literally sacrifice goats to their ancestors and pay the sangoma to throw the bones in the morning, then put on white gowns and sing hymns in the church choir the same afternoon. It's like 2 virtual machines running side by side on the same processor with 0 conflicts.

Anonymous Anonymous September 30, 2016 3:53 PM  

Hey, I'm sorta alt-White and I'm definitely a Christian (of the Eastern Orthodox variety).

Blogger Sherwood family August 18, 2017 12:06 AM  

OT: I'm looking for Deplorable Gaiseric. If you see him ask if he knows what happened to Jeffrey Johnson and RedGulls.com, an Alt-West site that has up and disappeared overnight.

«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 354 of 354

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts