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Friday, June 30, 2017

Libertarianism is dead

The Cato Institute embraces equalitarianism:
It is not enough to be passively “not racist.” We must be actively anti-racism.

Libertarians tend to think of freedom as either a means to an end of maximum utility—e.g., free markets produce the most wealth—or, in a more philosophical sense, in opposition to arbitrary authority—e.g., “Who are you to tell me what to do?” Both views fuel good arguments for less government and more personal autonomy. Yet neither separately, nor both taken together, address the impediments to freedom that have plagued the United States since its founding. Many of the oppressions America has foisted upon its citizens, particularly its black citizens, indeed came from government actors and agents. But a large number of offenses, from petty indignities to incidents of unspeakable violence, have been perpetrated by private individuals, or by government with full approval of its white citizens. I would venture that many, if not most libertarians—like the general American public—haven’t come to terms with the widespread, systemic subversion of markets and democracy American racism wreaked on its most marginalized citizens. Consequently, libertarians have concentrated rather myopically on government reform as the sole function of libertarian social critique without taking full reckoning of what markets have failed to correct throughout American history.

Take, for example, the common libertarian/conservative trope: “We believe in equal opportunity, not equal outcomes.” Most people, outside of the few and most ardent socialists, should believe that is a fair statement. But to say such a thing as a general defense of the status quo assumes that the current American system offers roughly equal opportunity just because Jim Crow is dead. Yet, that cannot possibly be true.
I left libertarianism because I concluded that it is a hopelessly utopian ideal that is practically impossible in a fallen world of real human beings, libertarianism did not leave me. But this is not libertarianism, this is the convergence of libertarianism and its cooption by equalitarians.

At this point, it's safe to say that libertarianism is as intellectually dead as communism. That doesn't mean it won't retain any number of dogmatic adherents, but at this point, it can no longer be considered conceptually viable. And this new Cato-endorsed variant is little more than a farcical parody.

Labels:

132 Comments:

Anonymous JAG June 30, 2017 5:13 AM  

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

OpenID paworldandtimes June 30, 2017 5:20 AM  

But a large number of offenses, from petty indignities to incidents of unspeakable violence, have been perpetrated by private individuals

So violence comes in speakable and unspeakable forms.

Virtue signalling compels one to throw superfluous adjectives at blackitty-black. It's an effeminate tic.

PA

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 30, 2017 5:31 AM  

This is sad.

It's like visiting a beloved, old professor from college and finding out he's past it.

Leaving Libertarianism was easy enough once I accepted that I was giving up an identity that had never really applied to me in the first place.

I was never a proper Libertarian.

The only thing I was never on board with was the militant atheism.

At the time it didn't bother me because of two things. One; I was certain in my heart that there was a God who lived and loved me. And two; I didn't think about it all that much. I figured that the atheism was just one more thing that I could take or leave in the all you can eat buffet of Libertarian philosophy.

I was completely wrong. Atheism is the bedrock of Libertarianism.

The iron clad belief that there is only the self and that there is no one to stand in judgement over your life but the self that you created. This is the foundation for that entire school of thought. Atheism is not an optional extra if you are a true capital "L" Libertarian, it's required.

Thus we hit the fundamental flaw; if there is only the self...then why have children?

Blogger Roger Hill June 30, 2017 5:46 AM  

"But to say such a thing as a general defense of the status quo assumes that the current American system offers roughly equal opportunity just because Jim Crow is dead. Yet, that cannot possibly be true."

What Libertarian of note would use 'equality of opportunity' as a defense of our present circumstances?

Vox is dead on right, as usual. Libertarianism has been mutated. Having spent years within Libertarian circles myself, I can say this statement is something different than the old Libertarian Utopian ideal. The Libertarians I listened to argued for equality under law, but not for equality in either outcomes or opportunities. Of course anyone who argues for equality it outcomes is a complete moron. Anyone who argues for equality in opportunities had better qualify their argument, especially what they mean by 'opportunity' or they will simply come across as a naive fool.

Blogger James Dixon June 30, 2017 5:47 AM  

> Libertarians tend to think of freedom as either a means to an end...

Liberty is not a means to an end. It is a good in and of itself.

Pathetic. Their complete lack of intellectual honesty is appalling.

Blogger YIH June 30, 2017 5:49 AM  

Sening that vomit of cuckery, makes me realize that no matter wherever on Earth they happen to be, Africans if they can even comprehend ''the Non-Aggression Principle'' the centerpiece of so-called libertarian doctrine (and I doubt that most Africans could even comprehend it) they would blatantly reject it.
Just visit Colin Flaherty's YouTube channel and you can see example after example after example of that.
Libertarianism can't work with Africans, it would become plain old anarchy (like Somalia) or the most sadistic strongman would become the ruler - as has been demonstrated throughout Africa and Haiti.
How would things like the murders of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom (among many many other examples) jibe with ''the Non- Aggression Principle''?
The vast majority of African live by the principle of get whatever you want from force or fraud.

Blogger Roger Hill June 30, 2017 5:50 AM  

@3

Wow, I experienced the same realization. In the end, the thing that drove me away from Libertarianism was the atheist who clung to it and sang endless praises to the 'self'.

Anonymous CoolHand June 30, 2017 5:52 AM  

Having just finished reading The Missionaries, I feel compelled to set The Heavy Bassoon Brigade upon all think tanks, but most especially the libertarian and "conservative" ones.

The words of Tikame are true. The words of Tikame never fail. Bring forth the Bassoon Brigade and fall upon your enemies with discordant violence!

Blogger VD June 30, 2017 5:52 AM  

The Libertarians I listened to argued for equality under law, but not for equality in either outcomes or opportunities.

The problem, of course, is that neither equality under law nor equality of outcome nor equality of opportunity exist. That's not the only problem with libertarianism, but it is one of them.

Blogger Resident Moron™ June 30, 2017 5:54 AM  

"... it's safe to say that libertarianism is as intellectually dead as communism."

This will be why LP candidates have started winning seats in state legislatures; they've abandoned fundamental libertarian principle in favour of acceptance by their enemies.

However the last thing USA needs is GOP 2.0

Blogger SteelPalm June 30, 2017 5:56 AM  

As a former libertarian myself, I share your disgust at that excerpt. This is nothing more than Social Justice cancer, and the idea that private citizens have to be controlled to avoid raycciiisss behavior runs directly counter to its core philosophy.

Sad indeed.

Blogger James Dixon June 30, 2017 5:57 AM  

> The vast majority of African live by the principle of get whatever you want from force or fraud.

A simple review of history forces me to conclude that the vast majority of people, regardless of race, have always lived that way.

Blogger JACIII June 30, 2017 6:02 AM  

Another SJW pretending to be something else. Creepy, pastey, fat fuck vying to be the last white guy the savages eat.

As soon as someone claims to be "anti-racist" you can stamp "Liar" on their forehead forever.

SJW. Liar. Hmmmmm

Blogger James Dixon June 30, 2017 6:03 AM  

> I was completely wrong. Atheism is the bedrock of Libertarianism.

I have never encountered that myself. But the hypothesis does explain how and why libertarianism has completely collapsed.

I did recognize that it was an inseparable aspect of Objectivism, which is why I was never a true follower of Rand.

Blogger Roger Hill June 30, 2017 6:07 AM  

@#9

I realize this now, but it took years to wake up from the impossible dream. Coming here was an eye opener.

Blogger Fenris Wulf June 30, 2017 6:18 AM  

The major libertarian institutions have been cucked and converged for a very long time, and are utterly irrelevant as a result. They are despised by Left and Right alike. Reason Magazine is despised by its own readers, who routinely call BS on the stories.

The Ayn Rand Institute, despite having a famous benefactor whose novels continue to sell in the millions, support from billionaire CEO's, and an annual budget of $10 million, is an abject failure. Their YouTube channel has view counts in the low thousands. I attribute this to the current director, an abrasive open-borders zealot who spends his time praising the virtues of Hispanics and denouncing the Alt-Right as "wacist" in a comical Elmer Fudd accent.

Honest libertarians will gravitate toward the Alt-Right, as they realize that liberty is something you have to fight for. We have no obligation to respect the "liberty" of corporations who thrive on political cronyism, or the "liberty" of immigrants who vote to increase our taxes and violate our rights.

Blogger Samuel Nock June 30, 2017 6:27 AM  

Time to start searching for a racist quote from Cato's Letters.

Blogger Chris Lutz June 30, 2017 6:27 AM  

Wow, CATO is definitively dead. I didn't think libertarians believed in equal opportunity. If a Chinese-American wanted to import a million Chinese to run his multinational business and only hire Chinese, that was his right since he wasn't harming anyone. If you had a complaint, start your own multinational company. One complaint against libertarianism was that it was the "I got mine" philosophy.

Anonymous Rocklea June 30, 2017 6:31 AM  

After reading that tripe, Gary Johnson's candidacy makes perfect sense.
Preach it libertarian brothers and sisters, take the libertarian gospel to the fuzzy wuzzys. The structural systemic oppression of those who subscribe to libertarian philosophy, will unite you both in common cause. Minorities should stick together.

Anonymous Luke June 30, 2017 6:34 AM  

Despite them being more right than the major parties on regulation and taxation, I rejected the Libertarian Party from day one. They are absolutely insane on sexuality and borders/immigration. It's as if they'd never heard of HIV, or the desirability of the only race remotely interested in their ideas to be demographically, culturally, theologically, and territorially be preserved.

Vox, what do you think of the Constitution Party? I voted from them twice, but have heard that in recent years they've gotten increasingly influenced by the Mormons, whom I do NOT consider Christian.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer June 30, 2017 6:42 AM  

Luke wrote:Despite them being more right than the major parties on regulation and taxation, I rejected the Libertarian Party from day one..

Go back up and read that article again. Does it sound like they really believe in lower taxation and regulation? It sounds like they are all for those things when it comes to controlling racists.

Their views on boarders and religion were untenable with the rest of their doctrine. They could have gone alt-right and said they support libertarianism in a Christian society with secure boarders. Instead they went SJW and abandoned the "free society" stuff and continued to support open boarders and atheism. That tells you what their real priorities have been.

Anonymous Looking Glass June 30, 2017 6:43 AM  

I think this is valuable. Some group(s) have clearly been funding Cato and this is the end result. We need to know who those people are and ban them from anything important when we come to power. They'll also expose the network of convergence.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft June 30, 2017 6:44 AM  

@18. The basic problem with the NAP is that it can only stand on the shoulders of successful aggressive actions, such as consuming logically (time)limited resources. (Read: Breathing, eating, and reproducing.)

Libertarianism as a whole should have learned the concept of "Tragedy of the Commons" and just died in its cradle.

Anonymous Looking Glass June 30, 2017 6:48 AM  

https://twitter.com/blanksslate

Physiognomy is real.

As to the article, we need a nastier phrase than "cuck". What do we call someone that pays every Man he meets to screw his wife?

Blogger Stilicho June 30, 2017 6:54 AM  

@ 22 I suspect the financiers you are looking for are the Koch brothers.

Anonymous BJNDKN June 30, 2017 7:02 AM  

It was Ron Paul libertarianism that helped me to wake up back in 07'. Much has changed since then. And you're right that libertarianism today is as utopian and unrealistic as communism. I now laugh when people decry the violations against the Constitution then suggest they use that same document to save itself. Its ridiculous, but that's the superstition of modern libertarian thought on how to fix everything. It doesn't deal completely in reality.

Blogger VD June 30, 2017 7:02 AM  

Vox, what do you think of the Constitution Party?

Totally irrelevant.

Anonymous Crispy June 30, 2017 7:05 AM  

Really?! THIS guy is the mouthpiece of small-L libertarianism?

"I’m with Her because Black Lives Matter is more than a phrase to me, despite my reservations about her efficacy to improve the status quo. I’m with Her because I understand that a Trump win isn’t the same to millions of people across this country and this planet not as fortunate as I am. I’m with Her because, in actuality, policies that result in bad outcomes for people of color are far better than no policies, a paranoid delegitimization campaign, and overt racism from the highest office in the land. I'm with Her because my partner gets antisemitic messages because racists have been emboldened by this wretch of a man. I'm with Her because, for all her faults--faults that have and will likely result in more people dying--she's still a more reliable and less dangerous person in re: foreign policy than he is."

http://blanksslate.blogspot.com/2016/10/never-means-never.html

Blogger Fenris Wulf June 30, 2017 7:09 AM  

Most of Reason's staff writers endorsed Hillary. They care more about virtue-signaling to people who despise them and always will, than actually fighting for liberty.

Blogger ZhukovG June 30, 2017 7:10 AM  

Liberty, Order, Control and the like are just variables to which each individual provides a value that added together equal Freedom for that individual.

Freedom to a German and Freedom to an Englishman are not the same.

It is telling that the ultimate end of both Libertarianism and Marxist-Leninism, 'The Withering of the State', are the same. This end occurring when the individual and his fellows has evolved to some ideal state, i.e. The New Soviet Man.

Anonymous Looking Glass June 30, 2017 7:16 AM  

@29 ZhukovG

It's the same core Utopian Socialist religion: the spawn of the Enlightenment. The way the mind virus interacted with English culture & religion is different than German. Or Russian. Or Greek.

Everyone in the modern world is infected by the thinking because it's refined Rebellion to the Lord.

Anonymous Bob June 30, 2017 7:21 AM  

OP--so what? CATO is a talk shop with zip authority on Libertarianism. Here is this ignoramus: https://www.cato.org/people/jonathan-blanks IMHO his face says it all...

He gets basic facts about Libertarianism and history wrong in the first few lines, and it's downhill from there. He seems to be recycling lefty made-up facts, like the implicit claim there're few Blacks among formal L/libertarians. Notice he ignores actual Libertarians, dredging up conservatives as 'libertarian' spokesmen.

CATO was chartered as a think tank to discuss liberal and libertarian-interest ideas. Its autonomous and doesn't speak for Libertarianism, only its mother the LIO or Libertarian International (and their curators the Gilsons-De Lemos) does that. Right now their political focus is dialogue on a world of many areas/nations like sister Floridas with all that implies such as improved self-governing areas where people can do as they please as a '1st milestone.'

I can understand the OP's ignorance of L/libertarian fine points and the misinformed statements of some of the commenters. But CATO has been criticized for going off-mission for years. Getting people to discuss L/libertarian AND traditional US political philosophy themes is what they're supposed to do at CATO, but they're letting too many people who have zero background on the subject present themselves as experts IMO.

I will say to the commenters stop repeating caricatures of L/libertarianism from your conservative sources. Libertarians protect the process like referees and just aren't tied to one side of an issue.

Enough from an old man at 7AM. Keep up the great blog, OP.



Anonymous DJF June 30, 2017 7:21 AM  

Stilcho writes “I suspect the financiers you are looking for are the Koch brothers.”


From what I have read at some of the “libertarian” websites I suspect that Soros is paying them as well.

For example even when you point out that the refugee program in the US is 100% taxpayer funded and the so-called “charities” that are a big part of it are nothing more then government contractors they still support it because Open Borders is Freedom!!!!! No matter how much money its taken from the taxpayers

Blogger Cecil Henry June 30, 2017 7:29 AM  

Yup. What all these fools don't understand is that they are drinking from a poisoned chalice.


Anti-racism is just a code word for anti-White.

They mean to destroy White people: and they have willingly complied without an ounce of reflection of what it means. Fools.

Anonymous Benito June 30, 2017 7:29 AM  

All the libertarians that mattered came to the alt-lite and alt-right, naturally. The LP is and has been going the way of the GOP for years now. Let them have their half-naked dancing fat guys.

Blogger Zaklog the Great June 30, 2017 7:31 AM  

As Stefan Molyneux would say, equality of outcomes is just another government program, and will be exactly as successful as virtually every other government program. And the amount of money and government power required to even attempt to realize this fantasy would stagger a principled libertarian's mind. Of course, if they're on weed at the time, they'd be a little harder to stagger, and that seems to be all a lot of libertarians actually care about these days.

In other news, why I believe in racial differences in IQ: https://youtu.be/AzeFVa-2HEk

Blogger Zaklog the Great June 30, 2017 7:34 AM  

Oh, and let's talk about incidents of unspeakable violence, shall we. How about beating the shit out of a woman and her daughter because your chicken was a little cold, which is just one in a long, long line of acts of completely unjustified violence by blacks in this country against whites.

But, you know, black violent crime is just the latest entitlement.

http://heavy.com/news/2017/06/woman-daughter-beaten-jeanette-norris-latasha-m-smith-nathaniel-eric-smith-cold-chicken-quik-chik-georgia-youtube-video/

Anonymous Walter Oleg June 30, 2017 7:39 AM  

If you claim to be a libertarian but don't support freedom of association, then you're not a libertarian.

The Cato Institute claims they're "anti-racist," but what they are is anti-White. So called "anti-racism" is a code word for anti-White.

Blogger Chris Lutz June 30, 2017 7:42 AM  

@27 Is he homosexual or using partner in a general sense?

@31 Bob, sorry but this is what libertarianism is devolving into. Look at the nominees for president on the Libertarian ticket last year. Or look at the dumpster fire at Reason. CATO has always been seen as a generally libertarian think-tank. You can't just hand wave it away no more than you can hand wave away NRO's conservative arguments for homosexual marriage that they have printed. I'm sure there is some core libertarian group out there but they are obviously irrelevant and your bringing up things that no one has heard of proves the point.

Blogger Zaklog the Great June 30, 2017 7:43 AM  

@24 There is nothing that makes a person quite so immediately unattractive as having no chin.

Anonymous Jack June 30, 2017 7:44 AM  

There are plenty of libertarians out there living really kickass lives. My first wife was libertarian.

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 30, 2017 7:44 AM  

Take, for example, the common libertarian/conservative trope: “We believe in equal opportunity, not equal outcomes.” Most people, outside of the few and most ardent socialists, should believe that is a fair statement. But to say such a thing as a general defense of the status quo assumes that the current American system offers roughly equal opportunity just because Jim Crow is dead. Yet, that cannot possibly be true.

And there it is.

The camel's nose isn't under the tent. The camel is wandering around inside the tent crapping all over the place.

I was a sentimental (though not intellectual) hold out on 7th of the 16 points.

I held equality of opportunity to be too important of a principle to be abandoned.

And the Cato institute just burned down that bridge behind me.

Equality of result was an obvious impossibility to anyone with a lick of common sense. Someone is always going to be smarter than you are. Someone is always going to be better looking than you are. Someone is always going to have better connections than you.

And that someone should be allowed to go as far as they can go because if anyone is working harder than you, that is on you.

There used to be a saying in this country, "nobody is so poor they can't pick up their own yard."

And now the Cato institute believes that there are people too poor to pick up their own yard.

A Libertarianism that defends equality of outcome is a prostitute... And one that has finally agreed to do the one thing it swore it would never do.

I now embrace the 7th point.

Blogger Akulkis June 30, 2017 7:48 AM  

It's all Hegalian dialectic ... to wit:

Thesis + Antithesis => Synthesis.

In this case:
Internationalist Atheist Socialism (Communism) + Internationalist Atheist Anti-socialism (Randian Libertarianism) => Internationalist Atheist Nanny-Government.

Blogger Akulkis June 30, 2017 7:51 AM  

Or to put it another way:

If on one hand, you have some....poop*.

And on the other hand, you have something that's screwed*-up....

Put them together, and you've got some screwed*-up poop*.

* To get the full effect, revise wording to R-rated as you deem appropriate.

Blogger Elizabeth June 30, 2017 7:57 AM  

Here's an article he wrote for Vox (he he) online magazine. From reading it, I would have thought that he was black:

https://www.vox.com/2015/10/6/9449709/gun-owner-keeping

Blogger Otto June 30, 2017 8:01 AM  

Nietzsche wins again, God is dead. He is not anywhere in the equation.

Anonymous A Texan June 30, 2017 8:02 AM  

Yes, libertarians forget that to have this society you can't import the 'turd world' and expect it to come out well. I'm for very limited government, but no libertarian has shown a low IQ mestizo, African savage, or turd world Muslim understands things like limited government or a non aggression principle. Hell, we can't get educated people that are white to understand it.

Blogger Vikki Wilson June 30, 2017 8:09 AM  

I suspect that free-spirited pot heads will still gather around the good ol' do-whatever-you-want Libertarianism, not noticing what Official Libertarianism apparently now thinks.

In the West in 2017 these Cato norms are also the conventional views of the State.

Blogger Durandel Almiras June 30, 2017 8:09 AM  

Vox, what specifically was it in Libertarianism that made you leave? I've been reading you daily since about 2007 (can't believe a decade has gone by already), found you from being a memeber of the Mises Institute and Lew Rockwell linking you on his daily blog linkage. Somewhere when you quit them I followed you out too, but I can't pin where.

My wake us was realizing that economic efficiency does not care about culture, heritage, and a people/nation looking out for their own interests. Libertarianism would demand demographic genocide if it was done without physical harm and if the locals were considered lazy or less efficient economically. Next was when Block's group beat out Hoppe's group on the immigration issue. The identity politics showed through while everyone pretended they were above it. Also, it became clear that many Libertarians supported license and not freedom, but kept confusing the terms.

At that point I concluded that Libertarianism was nothing more that the utopic dreams of a bunch of +1SD IQ whites who lived in a 98% white suburban gated community.

All I know is I've enjoyed the ride of this blog. Thank you, again.

Anonymous Nym Coy June 30, 2017 8:11 AM  

Et tu, Cato? Roll left and die?

Blogger Aeoli Pera June 30, 2017 8:12 AM  

Muh weed.

Blogger Dirtnapninja June 30, 2017 8:12 AM  

Heh, I dont follow Libertarianism so I was a bit baffled by several articles i had seen lately talking about the infiltration of Libertarianism by social justice.

Now I understand.

Blogger Durandel Almiras June 30, 2017 8:16 AM  

Even a decade ago, CATO was understood to be "beltwayed" by the Mises Institute crowd. They've always been a bit off, Caplan especially.

Guess the full convergence has finally happened. Not a great loss, but for many Libertarians, they need to ask themselves "how good is an ideology if it fails to find purchase in the hearts and minds of good people?" If they counter with "well many have not heard our message" I would ask why then Libertarianism has failed in the free market of ideas?

It's because it is found wanting. It is also due to being an ideology that does not have Christian foundation for its thought and theories (odd, considering the faith of Woods, Rockwell, Tucker and others in the Mises Institute crowd). If it did, sin and failure to embody the virtues would be factored into many of their voluntaryst theories of human behavior.

Blogger tz June 30, 2017 8:18 AM  

Back in 1960, Black families were intact, and black men were prospering with Unions pushing for degrees or minimum wages - which was racist to keep them out. Out of wedlock births were higher than with whites but still a small percentage and shameful. The streets, as Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell point out, were safe.

Then the civil rights movement came. Along with the sexual revolution.

What slavery, reconstruction, Jim Crow, and the KKK failed to do, LBJ and his great society did - destroyed the black race. I don't think Africans in Africa are as irresponsible because they can't afford to be.

Birmingham, Baltimore, Detroit, Chicago, and Selma are all majority black. Instead of responsible government, it's all cronyism and patronage.

The idiots can't see the "you poor thing" reverse racism that doesn't hold people accountable is responsible. A welfare mother with 3 children by different men doesn't want liberty. And it is the content of their character. A strange subsidizing of irresponsible behavior on the basis of race, then calling it racist to point out the irresponsibility.

Anonymous X-libertarian June 30, 2017 8:33 AM  

Speaking of libertarians...

First Republican raises impeachment for Trump

Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.) on Wednesday said reports that President Trump pressed ousted FBI Director James Comey to end an investigation would merit impeachment if true, becoming the first Republican lawmaker to broach the idea.

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/333803-first-republicans-talk-impeachment-for-trump

Blogger Cail Corishev June 30, 2017 8:39 AM  

I suspect that free-spirited pot heads will still gather around the good ol' do-whatever-you-want Libertarianism

One of the best reasons for legalizing pot might be that most Libertarians would lose all interest in politics.

Anonymous Mister M June 30, 2017 8:40 AM  

I got to "we must be actively anti-racism." Then I bailed. If I want virtue signalling babble, I know where to find it.

Anonymous JAG June 30, 2017 8:51 AM  

Fenris Wulf wrote:Most of Reason's staff writers endorsed Hillary. They care more about virtue-signaling to people who despise them and always will, than actually fighting for liberty.

They are certainly under the illusion that they can peal off minority and SJW votes from the left. Not going to happen.

Anonymous The Original Arrogant Penguins Fan June 30, 2017 8:51 AM  

@26

Vox, what do you think of the Constitution Party?

Totally irrelevant.

Muh Constitution Party... for the lolz

Anonymous RCFlyer June 30, 2017 8:53 AM  

You nailed it, Vox. I'd identified as a libertarian since reading Heinlein's "The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress" as a teenager back in the 80s. It's only in the last year that I finally gave up on it and embraced alt- right. This article captures the reason why.

Blogger Chris Mallory June 30, 2017 8:55 AM  

tz wrote:Back in 1960, Black families were intact, and black men were prospering with Unions pushing for degrees or minimum wages - which was racist to keep them out. Out of wedlock births were higher than with whites but still a small percentage and shameful. The streets, as Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell point out, were safe.

Then the civil rights movement came. Along with the sexual revolution.

What slavery, reconstruction, Jim Crow, and the KKK failed to do, LBJ and his great society did - destroyed the black race. I don't think Africans in Africa are as irresponsible because they can't afford to be.


The removal of the white fist from the black community is what destroyed the family.

Blacks in America are reverting to their African norms. The female raising the young and providing most of the support for the family is how Africa operates. The women work and the men drink, fight, and whore around.

Reconstruction let the blacks rage wild for a few years until the KKK and Jim Crow got them back under control.

Blogger James Dixon June 30, 2017 8:59 AM  

> CATO is a talk shop with zip authority on Libertarianism.

And what is your authority on Libertarianism, exactly? Why should we listen to you over Cato?

Blogger seeingsights June 30, 2017 9:00 AM  

Elements of libertarians have great value. Two in my opinion are support for tax reduction, and skepticism of military intervention abroad. However, I cannot be a doctrinaire.

Sometimes a libertarian policy is not the best policy in the context of the mixed economy. Example: Its good in principle to allow a business to take economic risks. However, if a business has government insurance, such as the banks, then its best that the business is not allowed to take certain risks. If the banks were allowed to act with more risk, then the bank failure rate would increase, thus drawing more money upon the federal insurance and taxpayers.


Anonymous Harambe June 30, 2017 9:02 AM  

Libertarianism is a religion in which "the market" is the deity and the NAP is its prophet.

Blogger bosscauser June 30, 2017 9:02 AM  

Someone call Harry Browne back as the cult has really wacked out since he's gone.

Loved his book way back when!

Gab.ai/GaryCauser

Anonymous VFM #6306 June 30, 2017 9:03 AM  

"Think tanks" are 50% appropriately named.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 30, 2017 9:08 AM  

Ask those toons a simple question, "Can I be free from fill-in-the-blank group?"

Anonymous Joe Blowe June 30, 2017 9:13 AM  

tz wrote:Back in 1960, Black families were intact,

If that were true there would have been no need to publish the famous 1965 Moynihan Report entitled 'The Negro Family: The Case For National Action' by Secretary of Labor and future NY Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan. The fact is Africans-in-America have been a dysfunctional mess since they were freed from slavery. They can't, on the whole, handle the burden or responsibility of Western, i.e. White, Civilization.

Here is an account from 1892 describing "Pigtown" the black area in Southwest Baltimore:

"Open drains, great lots filled with high weeds, ashes and garbage accumulated in the alleyways, cellars filled with filthy black water, houses that are total strangers to the touch of whitewash or scrubbing brush, human bodies that have been strangers for months to soap and water, villainous looking negroes who loiter and sleep around the street corners and never work; vile and vicious women, with but a smock to cover their black nakedness, lounging in the doorways or squatting upon the steps, hurling foul epithets at every passerby; foul streets, foul people, in foul tenements filled with foul air; that's "Pigtown."


Sound familiar?

Anonymous Benito June 30, 2017 9:18 AM  

The Libertarian Party has become the party of half-naked dancing fat guys. They've become even more irrelevant than ever before. Good riddance.

Blogger August June 30, 2017 9:18 AM  

These are the think-tank libertarians doing their best to prove Marx right. They use the logic of their class, rather than the logic they've supposedly been teaching. We have a lack of freedom of association and private property- just through them alone much of want the white nationalists want could be achieved. And much of the 'racism' likely wouldn't exist, because people wouldn't be angry at these longstanding injustices.

But the think-tank libertarians keep talking the academic talking points, because they are part of a class that derives it's power from the current regime.

Blogger VD June 30, 2017 9:27 AM  

I don't think Africans in Africa are as irresponsible because they can't afford to be.

You obviously have no experience of Africa. You're wrong.

Anonymous DonReynolds June 30, 2017 9:32 AM  

There was a time when I was considered a libertarian. In the economics department, it was like being accused of being a child molester. The libertarians were the only people who unreservedly supported free market capitalism. Somewhere along the way, they were infected by Mad Max anarchists and ever since they have become pot heads who forgot everything they ever said about capitalism. Now they are annoying and I cannot stand their company anymore.

Anonymous DonReynolds June 30, 2017 9:42 AM  

NONE....and that means, NOT ANY of the libertarians I was fond of, were Social Justice Warriors. Better still, NONE of them were egalitarians. Equality was the absolute antithesis of Freedom. Free People can never be Equal. Equal People can never be Free.

People are different and that makes them unique...even rare. That also makes them valuable. There are no substitutes.

Capitalism does not create equality. Socialism claims to create equality by stealing from some and giving part of the loot to others. How could they possibly be equal when one group is subsidizing the other group? One is being robbed by the other. They cannot possibly be equal to each other. One is a parasite and the other an unwilling host. Equality is cruel and vicious and destructive of human society.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft June 30, 2017 9:56 AM  

Yep. On the contrary, the "Africans" over here have an extremely high probability of having some white or other-than-black ancestry.

The actual Africans? They have an extremely high probability of having none whatsoever.

The difference is reflected quite clearly for anyone who has spent a significant amount of time in sub-Saharan Africa.

Anonymous Rocklea June 30, 2017 9:59 AM  

I've heard Libertarians have gold in their skulls, send them to africa, they have to go back.

Anonymous BBGKB June 30, 2017 10:07 AM  

What happened to the CATO I knew and loved who proved throwing money at black schools actually caused them to do worse?

Take, for example, the common libertarian/conservative trope: “We believe in equal opportunity, not equal outcomes.”

The avg SAT for the poorest whites from families who make under $20,000 per year is 978 while the average SAT for the most sussesful blacks from families who make over $200,000 per year is 981, basically a rounding error away. All poorer blacks are worse off and richer whites are better on this. Of course you can't call the SAT an IQ test since for decades they have been trying to get ride of questions that blacks did worse on.

So violence comes in speakable and unspeakable forms.

First the love that dare not speak its name now we have violence that dare not thanks to DieVerseCity

What Libertarian of note would use 'equality of opportunity' as a defense of our present circumstances?

http://stuffblackpeopledontlike.blogspot.com/2017/06/majority-black-city-council-of-73-black.html
Majority Black City Council of 73% Black Birmingham, Al Threatens to Cancel Contract With Topgolf if they Don't Hire Minority Contractors

Blogger B.J. June 30, 2017 10:08 AM  

How does this guy work for Cato? All he's doing to arguing how libertarianism--properly understood--is really progressive leftism. It's nonsense. The only conclusion is they agree with him or don't care.

Blogger August June 30, 2017 10:17 AM  

The worst think-tank libertarian garbage is the idea that government marriage somehow increased freedom, because gays need the divorce industry in charge of their resources too!

They just uncritically eat at the same damn dog food their leftist academic friends do. Who knows, maybe this is what the Koch brothers want for their money.

Anonymous Takin' a Look June 30, 2017 10:19 AM  

Libertarianism was simply the flip-side of the (((Globalist Coin))). It's not like (((Alysa Rosenbaum))) aka Ayn Rand actually gave a rat's patootie about the people she and compatriots endlessly fleece, mind-f*ck and destroy like the parasites they are.

Anonymous BBGKB June 30, 2017 10:23 AM  

And that someone should be allowed to go as far as they can go because if anyone is working harder than you, that is on you.

Lots of hire only American construction companies found that high quality work just didn't cut it against wetbacks that can do shoddy work for 16hrs a day while doing things like ripping insulation sheets in half before putting up & other things that will cost homeowners more down the line.

Why I don't believe in euquality of outcome SAT income/race chart
https://gab.ai/BGKB/posts/9370555

Ayn Rand actually gave a rat's patootie about the people she and compatriots endlessly fleece,

I thought Ayn Rand might have been one of the little jews at least growing up that didn't want to get kicked out of a nation because the big jews got caught.

Anonymous Eduardo the Magnificent June 30, 2017 10:34 AM  

Libertarianism, at best, is a tool to help you break free from the grips of the social conditioning fostered upon you since birth. I know it was my fist introduction to anything resembling a coherent argument (and compared to the "arguments" the left puts forward, libertarianism sounds downright genius). Socialism and central banking are bad. True. But like all tools, once it is either no longer needed or proven worn out or inadequate, you move on to better tools. Some people though would rather have a social identity they can present to others than an accurate map of the world. If you're honest, you'll figure that out and come around. If you're not, then no quarter for you.

Blogger kurt9 June 30, 2017 10:46 AM  

It sounds like the Cato Institute is, how do you say it, converged.

Blogger praetorian June 30, 2017 10:56 AM  

Physiognomy is real, fam

Blogger Naith June 30, 2017 10:58 AM  

Conquest's law reigns supreme.
Any organization not explicitly right-wing sooner or later becomes left-wing.

Blogger praetorian June 30, 2017 11:05 AM  

The Ayn Rand Institute, despite having a famous benefactor whose novels continue to sell in the millions, support from billionaire CEO's, and an annual budget of $10 million, is an abject failure.

Her name was Alisa Rosenbaum. She was an anti-family sexual degenerate who took advantage of ethnocentrism extensively, while telling her followers not to.

Big-L Libertarianism was a mess from the start; only mildly socially retarded, autistic white males could fall for it.

I was a Libertarian.

Blogger L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright June 30, 2017 11:21 AM  

Isn't being actively anti-racist a direct contradiction of everything Libertarianism stands for?

Anonymous Mr. Rational June 30, 2017 11:25 AM  

Crispy wrote:I'm with Her because my partner gets antisemitic messages because racists have been emboldened by this wretch of a man.
I was looking for the (((connection))).  I knew it had to be there.  Every. Single. Time.

I did a search on the Blanks surname.  I didn't find its origins, but Blank started out Jewish.  Some converted to Orthodoxy, so that's not proof of anything.  But you caught it, Crispy.

Blogger Elizabeth June 30, 2017 11:33 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger dc.sunsets June 30, 2017 11:34 AM  

Libertarianism bifurcated into a Utopian faction and just one more shade of the Progressivist Cult.

Cato was on the second path a long time ago. The closest thing to the first path was the Voluntaryist camp, but there's no money in it and people seem to get burned out or discouraged.

What's worse, the frothing evil of the Hard Left or the pathetic naiveté of the doctrinaire libertarian? (I was once of the latter.)

Blogger Elizabeth June 30, 2017 11:35 AM  

BBGKB wrote:And that someone should be allowed to go as far as they can go because if anyone is working harder than you, that is on you.

Lots of hire only American construction companies found that high quality work just didn't cut it against wetbacks that can do shoddy work for 16hrs a day while doing things like ripping insulation sheets in half before putting up & other things that will cost homeowners more down the line.


Two real estate agents told me that they wouldn't buy a house built after 1965 (!) because they were more solidly built. The flaws that you pointed out will be dealt with by the homeowner after the home is sold and the builder has his money.

Blogger kurt9 June 30, 2017 11:55 AM  

I always call myself a libertarian and always will. However, I have not had any contact with the institutions of libertarianism since around 1989. I suspect they are all "converged" (to use Vox Day's term) with SJW types like everything else these days.

You guys are correct. Any institution cannot, CANNOT allow liberal-lefty types in it if it is to remain effective for its original purpose. Liberal-lefty types do not create value. Instead, they parasitize and destroy value.

Anonymous Gen. Kong June 30, 2017 12:24 PM  

The vast majority of African live by the principle of get whatever you want from force or fraud.

Supported endorsed and ratified by the (((Banksteins))) and their faithful legions of SJWs, antifas, oafcuckers, cucks and churchian. Because Judeo-Christ's Gospel of Galatians 3:28: equality über alles.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey June 30, 2017 12:32 PM  

@9 VD
"The Libertarians I listened to argued for equality under law, but not for equality in either outcomes or opportunities.

The problem, of course, is that neither equality under law nor equality of outcome nor equality of opportunity exist."

To some, an impossible-to-define, ever-changing ostensible "goal" is a feature, not a bug.

@24 Looking Glass
https://twitter.com/blanksslate

"Physiognomy is real."

Heartiste's two great contributions to the world:
"Diversity + Proximity = War" and
"Physiognomy is real."

@27 Crispy
"Really?! THIS guy is the mouthpiece of small-L libertarianism?"
"I'm with Her because my partner gets antisemitic messages"

Hmm...


@33 Cecil Henry
@36 Walter Oleg
Anti-racist is a code word for anti-White. Preach it.
RIP Bob Whitaker. Gone, but not forgotten.

@43 Elizabeth
"Here's an article he wrote for Vox (he he) online magazine. From reading it, I would have thought that he was black"

Cringeworthy. Incidentally, note that he mentions absolutely no characteristics of the individual who attempted to mug his father other than that he was male. Hmm...

@53 X-libertarian
"Speaking of libertarians...
First Republican raises impeachment for Trump
Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.)"

He's a kebab. A Zionist, Christian, AIPAC sellout one,
https://griid.org/2010/11/29/justin-amash-israel-and-aipac/
but a kebab nonetheless. Identity > ideology.

@59 Chris Mallory
"Blacks in America are reverting to their African norms."

Almost as if the slate were not blank, after all. Or something.

@60 James Dixon
> CATO is a talk shop with zip authority on Libertarianism.

"And what is your authority on Libertarianism, exactly? Why should we listen to you over Cato?"

No true libertarian!

From the Cato blurb on Blanks:
"Blanks has appeared on various television, radio, and internet media including HuffPost Live and Voice of America. His work has been published in the Washington Post, The New Republic, Denver Post, Chicago Tribune, Capital Playbook (New York),Vice, Reason, Libertarianism.org, Rare.us, and the Indianapolis Star." Vox.com, too. Most of these outlets do not publish writers who deviate significantly from the narrative.

Blogger Duke Norfolk June 30, 2017 12:51 PM  

And that article is 3 years old. Cato and so much of libertarianism went off the rails quite a while ago.

Vox helped me shake off the delusion myself.

Blogger Robert What? June 30, 2017 12:51 PM  

Just like Conservatism has "conserved" nothing, Libertarianism has preserved no liberties (except smoking pot).

Anonymous patrick kelly June 30, 2017 1:08 PM  

Big L libertarians prioritize liberties involving smoking dope and sticking their dick wherever they want.

Blogger Bob Loblaw June 30, 2017 1:24 PM  

Libertarianism was never really alive. Sure, when you talk about broad generalities - minimal government, low taxes, devolution to the lowest level, etc, etc you get broad agreement. But once you get down to brass tacks in most cases people who call themselves libertarians want to "cut my taxes and your services". If they own a house they have some reason for wanting to keep the mortgage interest deduction. If they have kids they want public schools (or vouchers), but without kids they don't want the government spending money on schools. The ones who don't do drugs want drug prohibition, and the rest of them think drugs should be available on every street corner.

IOW, about 10% of people who call themselves libertarian have a principled ideology, and the other 90% just want to tailor the government to their own needs. Now, I'm all for tailoring the government to my own needs, but I'm not going to pretend that's an actual internally consistent political ideology.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable June 30, 2017 1:33 PM  

I now embrace the 7th point.

Used to piss me off how often Vox turned out to be right. Now I'm getting used to it.

Anonymous The Eighteenhundredsman June 30, 2017 1:45 PM  

The schism is taking place in earnest. While Reason, Cato, LP, etc. have clearly broken for the left, a fellow by the name of Eric July, a black guy who I believe runs/ran the nearly half-million strong "Being Libertarian" Facebook page, has recently started saying a lot of things which would not be out of place here. His former editor is engaged in a flame war with the admin of one of the most prominent (100,000+) ancap pages as a result of the latter's autistic purity spiraling with regards to the NAP and general contrarian attitude. There's still Cantwell, of course, during the brief periods between getting Zucked over non-issues.

And then there's a guy who does these adorable cartoons of the Gadsden snake wearing Pinochet's cap and physically removing commies, with over 30,000 readers.

I think it's going to get weirder.

Blogger Frenzy June 30, 2017 2:11 PM  

With Libertarianism, just like with cuckservatism, the battle is always on our side of the field. It's always being invaded and pushed by the Left. Why was Gary Johnson even talking about forcing people to bake a cake? Why was the battle on that issue, and why was he saying that we need to submit and bake a cake for these sad underpriviledged people?

I appreciate the Mises Institute, and people like Tom Woods for their insight. There is certainly use in having the dream of removing the shackles of government and understanding of what libertarian belief actually means. However, it's just so irrelevant to what is going on, and it has no answers for the observable macro-level culture differences that we see so clearly.

I still think books like "Egalitarianism as a Revolt Against Nature" by Murray Rothbard are important and useful reading, but I can't embrace the philosophy. I'm not going to be involved with people who don't recognize the enemy, or worse, think I'm the problem for what I am.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents June 30, 2017 2:28 PM  

Hey, where's that Boomer Anarcho Capitalist from yesterday when we need him?

Blogger tublecane June 30, 2017 2:47 PM  

I wouldn't say libertarianism is dead, so long as people like Hans-Herman Hoppe and Lew Rockwell are kicking. But there aren't any Rothbards or Nock in the rising generation. The promising ones are going in other directions. It will die for lack of what the ruling class calls "thought leaders."

Like Conservatism, Inc. they're too far into the mainstream. The movement is one of the pet radical or reactionary (hard to tell which sometimes) groups, which entertain the masters with their cutesy extremism. No ideology that can provide color for a loveable sitcom character on the NBC show Parks and Recreation can be truly outside the mainstream.

Which wouldn't be a problem, except the mainstream is intellectually bankrupt, and people are noticing.

Blogger tz June 30, 2017 2:59 PM  

@98 The problem with Tom Woods, Mises.org, and friends is that they are stuck on utopia. Half the talk is about how to do things without a state and why Intellectual Property is a Myth while the immigrants and rapefugees are invading and the lefty enablers are destroying liberty. Most Constitutionalists I know love and practice at the 2nd Amendment often. Most Theologians (and Anarchocapitalism has morphed from a philosophy to a cult) can only present abstruse papers. St. Mother Theresa was at a conference once and said it would be more useful if they took a broom and cleaned the floor.

@97 The Ron Paul Peace Blimp has been replaced with the Pinochet 1 Chinook offering free rides. Do most helicopters yaw to the right?

(Aside, Tom Woods DID have a nice review of Pinochet's regime and noted the Chicago School, led by (((Milton Friedman))) managed to create a very nice society out of the broken attempt at communism and socialism. Cantwell notes many on the Alt-White want too much control over the economy but Pinochet's model should make them Chile out).

@93 Name one libertarian or one thing one of the libertarian think tanks actually did to legalize or decriminalize Marijuana, at least prominently ("Oh, these other people are working hard, we should support them" doesn't count). The smoking pot calling the smoking kettle black?

@69 I stand corrected. Let me amend in that they have lots of kids so that not all will die from their lack of responsibility. Transposed here, or with "we are the world", it becomes severely dysgenic - it is already dyscivic but seems to work for the hunter-gatherers, as long as not too many rinos, elephants, lions, zebras, and giraffes are poached. Doesn't poaching ostrich eggs take a long time?

@66 1892 was not 1960, and perhaps it was selection. There are areas in the backwoods of Appalachia that are all white but aren't exactly eucivic. But I will leave it as an open question which is not easily answered given the soft-censorship of today. I'd put the 1892 account as an anecdote, as much as Williams and Sowell. There is also Clarence Thomas' bio.

Blogger tublecane June 30, 2017 3:04 PM  

It is interesting that you can always test the seriousness or--I don't like this term, but I can't think of a better one--relevance of an ideology by the Race Question. And I don't say that because I believe race is the central issue of it time, though it's one of the biggies. I'm not sure why it is. Possibly because that's the horse PC has decided to ride and PC has colonized all of our minds. Resistance to it is the only meaningful form of free thought.

I had long stopped taking National Review seriously, but I quit reading it altogether when a number of years ago it tried to explain the lingering Gap on white racism. As if that were the only remaining explanation after you removed de jure "discrimination." As if the circumstances of blacks didn't get worse the more racism was education out of white people. Who could be so intellectually incurious as to not inquire into possible defects in blacks themselves and black culture itself that might explain this Gap?

Then there are the libertarians, who should care less. A couple of years agree I was reading a neoreactionary article on why libertarians are doomed on race in the eyes of PC, no matter what. Because "disparate impact." If libertarian policies leads to outcomes differing by race--and they will--and the outcomes disfavor non-Asian minorities--and they will--then libertarianism is racist. No argument, just a fact.

That's according to PC, anyway. The test is not to care. Libertarianism is failing this test. Therefore, it's irrelevant. Or it's relevant at best as a less militantly insane version of PC, which is to say it's in the same camp as mainstream conservatism. Which is sad.

Blogger tz June 30, 2017 3:16 PM  

@61 this is another split in libertarianism - some want everything now even if unbalanced, e.g. opening the borders independent of ending the welfare state (I don't agree with the first, but you get the idea). Others realize you can't undo longstanding structural changes, or as I put it, (extending Harry Browne), Government breaks your legs then gives you a crutch. These libertarians take away your crutch without fixing your legs, then say a Chinese sprinter taking steroids beat you in a foot race fairly.

@59 The removal of the white fist from the black community is what destroyed the family.
I'd call it "incentives", but I don't disagree. The problem is the fist has been replaced with an open hand with candy - a handout.

I guess the ideal of minimal/minimizing government has been lost. But then what is the point?

And that makes me think the whole article is incoherent. We have even more granny boomers who have "paid into Social Security" for 40 years. Will libertarians cut Social Security and Medicare? That is more direct government robbery and dependence than any racial issue. And if this isn't clear, racism (or sexism) can't be addressed.

Tell me the government oppression that causes a black woman to have a child out of wedlock or two in her teens and keep them, which she can only do because government pays her to. She never paid in like the above mentioned grannies. That she prefered "have a kid, get a check" to getting an education and career, or a responsible husband is still a choice. If we aren't going to hold her responsible, are the DROs and whatever going to hold NAP violators responsible?

A line must be drawn, and we might in charity do something who made bad but rational at the time decisions based on government con games. But at some point we need to say no more.

I cannot see this being done in blackland, or meximerica. But this is the same demographic problem that occurs at libertarian gatherings.

(It would be interesting to get the demographics of Tom Woods' Contra Cruise, but it might open him to an SJW attack for the repeat if there aren't half women, a fifth black, etc).

Blogger Mr Darcy June 30, 2017 3:18 PM  

Oh! ... boo-hoo-hoo ... I ... I ... I just ... I can't even ... oh boo-hoo-hoo ...

Blogger tz June 30, 2017 3:21 PM  

@102 - NR was cuckverged when they purged Sobran and Buchanan over not the race question but the Jewish question (JQ). Many can get past the race question since who are you going to belive, the SJWs or your own eyes (Grouch Marxism?). But Jews (and Asians) are high IQ with a different set of time, in-group, and trust preferences.

I don't have a problem today saying "you are an individual, but 70% of your race wish to destroy western civilization, so you either renounce civilization or your race/nationality and there is no third option, so choose before your choice is made for you".

Blogger Mr Darcy June 30, 2017 3:22 PM  

#2 wrote:

"So violence comes in speakable and unspeakable forms. "

Damn, I wish I'd said that!

Blogger Mr Darcy June 30, 2017 3:41 PM  

@22:

It's the Usual Suspects. Yes: (((them))). Read some research about it not two weeks ago, although at the moment I can't remember where. Sorry.

Blogger WhatsThePitch June 30, 2017 3:42 PM  

I think libertarianism is an aberration. America birthed small gov't minded folk due to its unique place in history, where the colonists went several generations with abnormal political freedom and opportunity to govern themselves. This history, culminated with strict enough immigration that the populace didn't change much in generations, gave us the gov't we have now, which is, of course, nothing like what it was in the beginning. When you read de Tocqueville, you realize that the original posterity of America has been gone for a long time.

Here's a question though, since we know small gov't worked for a little time in early American history, is it possible for any kind of small gov't to exist in a big business environment? I simply cannot comprehend what giant corporations would look like under a small gov't. I can see how a populace that is 90%+ farmers could be small gov't, but one that is heavily industrialized, I seriously doubt it.

Blogger Robert What? June 30, 2017 3:48 PM  

@WhatsThePitch,

As long as the legal monstrosity exists of counting corporations as legal "persons", I don't know that small government and large corporations can coexist.

Blogger Tatooine Sharpshooters' Club June 30, 2017 3:54 PM  

Doesn't "active anti-racism" violate the NAP?

Blogger tz June 30, 2017 4:11 PM  

Rothbard quote graphic
And nonsense. Rothbard did hold to his views and tried to recruit anyone who would shrink government.

Modern Losertarians are content with scholarly works about utopia, the LP convention freak show and their clowns they nominate, and other things that will not reduce a single regulatory burden or tax.

Blogger Johnny Philosopher June 30, 2017 4:13 PM  

I left behind libertarianism due to their position on immigration, free trade, and all the libertarians I met were idiots.

Anonymous Joe Blowe June 30, 2017 4:18 PM  

tz wrote:1892 was not 1960

Here is the full text of 'The Philadelphia Negro' written in 1899

https://archive.org/stream/philadelphianegr001901mbp/philadelphianegr001901mbp_djvu.txt

and the 'The Negro Family: The Case for National Action' written in 1965

Same shit, different day.

And this "White people do it to" canard is the lamest excuse since "the dog ate my homework". Poor Appalachian Whites are not raping, robbing, and murdering at the same astronomical rates as Africans-in-America and when even when they do it is not with the same intense barbarism, malice, and joy. The poor Whites even score much higher on the SATs.

Anonymous Joe Blowe June 30, 2017 4:20 PM  

The 'The Negro Family: The Case for National Action'

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/the-moynihan-report-an-annotated-edition/404632/

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener June 30, 2017 4:26 PM  

Cato abandons the NAP for social justice? Sounds about right.

Blogger rcocean June 30, 2017 4:40 PM  

IOW, about 10% of people who call themselves libertarian have a principled ideology, and the other 90% just want to tailor the government to their own needs.

Exactly. It was always about having less Government FOR OTHER PEOPLE. Don't tax Me, and lets have legal hookers and coke. But lets keep all the laws that help my business, keep ME safe, or help ME. Of course, since the entire philosophy is based on selfishness or ME ME ME, why be surprised?

Blogger rcocean June 30, 2017 4:44 PM  

In the old days, the Rich were politically stupid. They just said, "The public be damned" or "I can hire 1/2 the working class to kill the other 1/2". But new Rich are smarter. They came up Libertarianism - a sophisticated philosophy on why they shouldn't pay taxes or the businesses be regulated. Sure its nonsense, but its better than telling the working class to eat shit and die.

Blogger rcocean June 30, 2017 4:46 PM  

The 2016 Libertarian party nominated a liberal Republican, who was BFF with Ted Kennedy, and a moderate Republican who liked Pot. The whole party is nonsense.

Blogger Mr Darcy June 30, 2017 4:50 PM  

@55:

That was six or seven weeks ago.


Blogger Mr Darcy June 30, 2017 4:52 PM  

@61:

Bingo. Exactly. Would that more people understood this.

Blogger tublecane June 30, 2017 5:47 PM  

@119-Except the rich didn't come up with libertarianism. And in fact most of them are what you can term state socialists. You should read some old libertarians on his hard it was to get Big Business to support them.

Eventually, Big Business came around to supporting a lot of ideas of libertarian origin which found their way to the mainstream. But it's plain ahistorical to pretend they came up with them.

Blogger tublecane June 30, 2017 6:09 PM  

@97-"but I'm not going to pretend that's an internally consistent political ideology"

Part of libertarianism's problem is that it's too consistent, or makes too big a show of wanting to be consistent. Most of them either are or have the pretense of being mad rationalists, or autistes as the internet has them.

There's no way to arrive at an opinion on every particular issue of the day based on strict ratiocination from First Principles. No one should even try. The old libertarian masters didn't.

They tried to be more consistent on the principle of liberty, at least, than others. But unless they were pure anarchists they knew they weren't being entirely consistent. (You know what they say about a foolish consistency.)

They were saying we should draw the line here, not there, because liberty. Unless they were Ayn Rand, in which case they were saying the line belongs here because Reason! But she was a novelist with an unusually elaborate philosophy, not a philosopher. Her philosophy was developed to tell stories, not get at eternal truths, and most people don't take it very seriously for that very reason.

The libertarian movement has too many of the types who would take that seriously, though. They should purge the mad rationalists from their ranks. I feel sorry for people who grew up on Internet Libertarianism (the NAP as God) and have less experience with the better kind.

By the way, you are using ideology in a funny manner. Originally, ideologies were supposedly thin rationalization to cover for the economic and other interests really motivating a person's political opinions. You take the word to denote some sort of objective set of consistent principles beyond petty self-interest.

Blogger Buybuydandavis June 30, 2017 8:03 PM  

Fenris Wulf wrote:
Reason Magazine is despised by its own readers, who routinely call BS on the stories.


Can partially confirm. I've been regularly going to their web site for over a decade.

Partially because there are many articles that the readers are all on board with.

But there is major push back on all the immigration articles, as Reason Staff never saw an immigration limit they liked.

Fundamentally, if you're for the Non Aggression Principle, you're an anarchist when you're consistent. Even for those who deny it, the logic of their arguments go there even when they claim they do not.

In the case of immigration, it's "aggression" to prevent people from migrating where they please. Borders are aggression. Government is aggression. And they are. They are all "initiation of force".

Practical living in the world requires initiation of force to prevent greater initiation of force. They think they can get by with zero, hence they are opposed to any they see and recognize.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents June 30, 2017 8:12 PM  

@124 tubalcane

Libertarianism's problem is in the assumptions. Like Commies, Liberteenies assume that humans can be made perfect by manipulating them and their environment. Once perfect humans exist, then the NAP or "from each according to his abilities" should work perfectly.

Commies doubled down over and over at making people perfect by brainwashing and force. Liberteenies double down at assuming a perfect human.

No accident that both Communism and Libertarianism appeal heavily to atheists. To admit God is sovereign means men are not. Just for a start.

Blogger tz June 30, 2017 9:42 PM  

@126 - in a discussion Tom Woods and guest talked about Thomas Sowell's book about whether people were malleable - not racially, but enough so the socialists could change human nature enough to make it work. They accepted human nature wasn't that flexible.

But almost every ancap / libertarian argument quite literally assumes the same thing, that if you just get rid of "government" or the "state" that everyone will get along, at least after they read a few works by Rothbard.

But the libertarian utopia will fail as surely as communism did, at least if you try to implement it with the wrong kind of human beings. It isn't training, nor even IQ per se, but requires a long time preference, rule respecting, high trust (making DROs as redundant as government or police) and some other attributes. Those were present in the Mideval Iceland and Ireland and Colonial America used as examples, and broke as soon as they were stressed with different values.

If it will require a fist, whether white or not for the sake of argument, for blacks to work out in an ancap society, will the libertarians implement it or just give up?

Blogger tz June 30, 2017 9:53 PM  

Libertarins can't handle that 90% don't want to be libertarians, at least in places like cities.

The alternatives are neither examined or mentioned:

1. Move to anarcho-hicsville (I did that and found the "hics" were over 1SD, obeyed the 10 commandments, etc.)

2. deport or exile or quarantine the criminals. Note that the article fails to say what needs to be done with all the "broken" victim blacks. Just accept the crime?

3. whatever the prefix that corresponds to civic nationalism where ethno - corresponds to geno as in genocide.

This is the problem with civic nationalism in general, even if the civitas is anarcho capitalism. If you have a critical mass of people who refuse to play by the rules, and/or destroy trust, it will destroy society. If you refuse to do what is necessary to have civic nationalism, the choice is dyscivilazation or ethno-nationalism (which will enforce things).

Blogger Cloudbuster July 01, 2017 12:23 PM  

Reading, that article I can tell he's desperately trying to give the impression that he is black. Pathetic cuck.

Blogger Neutrinoide July 01, 2017 2:55 PM  

We don't lose our time with vox fantasy day.

OpenID markstoval July 01, 2017 4:43 PM  

"But almost every ancap / libertarian argument quite literally assumes the same thing, that if you just get rid of "government" or the "state" that everyone will get along, at least after they read a few works by Rothbard."

There are a lot of "libertarians" that are not really libertarians and there are "an-caps" that are not really an-caps. I guess the same goes with any political philosophy. For example, there are many "conservatives" that have no idea what it really means to be conservative. The CATO bunch are "belt-way libertarians" which is to say --- they are not libertarians at all. Libertarian leaning perhaps but that KOCH bunch are never going to be an agent for change.

The An-Cap realizes that the State as a monopoly can only be oppressive and evil. It may start out as "not so bad" but it will move toward totalitarianism every time. So we have people here who love the State? Hmmm.

If we get back to the An-Cap society, we will find that everyone does not get along any more than brothers always get along. But without the state in the way I will kill those that screw with me or my family. There were entire communities in the old west that were without any real Government Law. Yet they made it relatively fine. OK, perhaps the mob lynched a few innocent people, but the modern US "justice" system has destroyed many innocent people.

There will never be a Utopia on earth, but not having a monopoly State seems to be the one path to a much better outcome. So why don't we go there? People can't go to a place they can not even imagine.

Rothbard was "alt-right" before that term came to exist. He knew we had to live with the State until it was gone and we needed allies -- the right wing was the obvious choice as most right wingers believe in property rights.

All "human rights" are property rights.

I got a bit off track. All I mean to say was that CATO is not "libertarian".

Blogger Alaska Paul July 09, 2017 11:25 PM  

When the US govt gets insolvent and cannot print itself out of the hole it made, then no more free sugar. And the dependent herd becomes self culling. It will not be just blacks. In the next world you are your own. Better have the skills and mindset to survive and thrive. We cannot vote ourselves out of the trajectory our govt put us in.

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