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Thursday, June 22, 2017

Mailvox: nationalism and the Church

A Christian sent this to his naturalized, Canadian-born anti-nationalist pastor. It's interesting how often those who deny identity nevertheless exhibit it in their ideology, and how observably dishonest they are every step along their broad and easy stroll towards worldy approval.

I was moved to provide some response to this Sunday's sermon on America, patriotism, and nationalism.  I'll just go through the line items:

The referenced survey of pastors was based on perceptions of the pastors, of congregants, rather than asking congregants directly about their attitudes.  One could draw generalized perceptions regarding any aspect of people's lives: sports, hobbies, money, work, etc.  The survey is a questionable gage of the real spiritual situation, in my own opinion.

We honor our veterans on Memorial Day and celebrate the country we were blessed with because we are grateful for the freedom we have to worship - which is not available to most of the world.  Veterans have put their very own lives on the line defending it.  This is not true of doctors, teachers, etc.  But it's a stretch to equate this to idol worship.  This is generally only done a few select holidays a year, not every Sunday.  

When Paul says he counts his other identities as nothing compared to his belonging to Christ, there's a rhetorical element to what he is saying.  It doesn't mean that he no longer has responsibilities to his family or his society, as a father, or a citizen, etc.  Are we to argue that all other civic bonds, associations, loyalties should be thrown out as a result of being a Christian - or are they just simply subservient to our Christian ones?

"Love your neighbor as yourself" - who IS your neighbor?  Are you certain of just who Jesus defines to be our "neighbor"?  If everyone is my neighbor, than no one is my neighbor, in the same way that loyalty to everyone is loyalty to no one.

To say that we have more unity with an Ethiopian christian, than say, a biological/ethnic kinsman who is an unbeliever is certainly true in the spiritual sense.  But it stretches credulity when taken to its absolute logical conclusion in an earthly practical sense.

Timothy 5:8 "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and specifically for those of his own house, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

You state that nationalism means "thinking you're superior to others".  This is a mischaracterization if not a demonization of the term.  Nationalism simply means taking care of your own as an extension of Timothy 5:8.  Nations are, by the Bible's own portrayal, extended genetic families, just like Israel. He Himself ordained them when he scattered and divided humanity at Babel.

To do away with this concept may suggest that I'm not supposed to care about my child any more than I should care about any random person anywhere on earth.  Do you believe that?  If not, where is the dividing line?

On "America First": It's a political term to urge our leaders to make trade deals, treaties, etc. that are in the best interest of the citizens of our country. I would expect that Canadian citizens should say "Canada first," Moroccan citizens "Morocco first," etc.

Americans give more to foreign charitable aid efforts worldwide than any other country, yet we have people suffering materially and spiritually in our own country.  Would you care for your own suffering child first - or seek out someone else's child?  How can we successfully help others if our own foundation has crumbled?

We live in a time where global capitalism is spawning runaway materialism, degeneracy is cultivated by curated mass-media pop culture, and Christian societies are being atomized through mass immigration and urbanization.  It's interesting to me that with all of these things the church could be addressing, you attack the natural defense mechanisms against these very things.  It is because we are Christians, that we care about addressing these things not just spiritually, but also materially through political action.

Re Franklin Graham and Jerry Falwell Jr: Our spiritual leaders should be speaking out about the direction the country should be going - social issues, etc. One of the reasons we're in the mess we're in is because they have not!  Most of them have instead chosen to bite their tongue, or water down their messages, and market their church with graphic art and praise bands, failing in their primary duty to steer our society away from its ongoing decay, by promoting both the sufficiency of the Gospel and Truth.

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171 Comments:

Blogger Wanderer June 22, 2017 9:40 AM  

Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
James 4:4

Blogger Paul Sacramento June 22, 2017 9:47 AM  

Excellent letter.

Anonymous CarpeOro June 22, 2017 9:49 AM  

From the email, to be frank, I think I'd have considered getting up and walking out during the service. If I was a regular attendee and knew the pastor in general, I would have for sure and not returned. I have a great dislike for quotes of scripture that are used without context to justify some view point that is trying to be imposed upon me. After all, the Enemy can and will quote scripture in just such a way - and I refuse to serve him.

OpenID paworldandtimes June 22, 2017 9:49 AM  

We are commanded to love our neighbor, not the trespasser.

PA

Blogger Ransom Smith June 22, 2017 9:53 AM  

That's the debate I'm always having with my dad.

He argues that Hewbrews 11 considers Christians to be a-national. Without an earthly home only an eternal one.

Sadly though he can't be convinced. He bought into the "God is love" doctrine and now doesn't get what's coming.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 22, 2017 9:55 AM  

The basic white normie is getting a sense that they are being placed in a low caste or slave position, but of course the conversation collapses back to Hitler and Isms and ists a true mind swamp.

One day though a liberation movement will arise that grabs the moral level of our conflict, and the moral authority of the swamp creatures will be nullified.

Hardest hit will be the foot washing cults you call churches, leaving effeminate scum bag preachers, nasty mean girl gossips and their enabling shit talking husbands and the foot washee colored mascots without anyone to lord it over.

Blogger John rockwell June 22, 2017 9:59 AM  

@Mr Mantra Man

Shit talking husbands who grovel to their wives in private.

Anonymous Looking Glass June 22, 2017 10:01 AM  

@1 Wanderer

I find the book of James to be the best cudgel in the New Testament. It's why no one ever wants to deal with the book these days. It's the most physically practical of the books, thus it's rapidly being ignored.

Anonymous KJ June 22, 2017 10:02 AM  

Quick note on Ethiopian Christians. It was several Ethiopians that first warned me about Muslims and especially Somali and Sudanese Muslims back in the 90s. Centuries of having your land raided by Muslims who want to take your children back to be sex slaves gives a clearer perspective.

Anonymous Looking Glass June 22, 2017 10:03 AM  

@5 Ransom Smith

I'd probably hammer on the fact the "Love" is coming back to slaughter the world and burn it in fire. Hammer the point until it hurts, because that's an actual display of "love".

Blogger Brian H June 22, 2017 10:03 AM  

It's too bad the pastor's response was so long - I'd love to see Vox and the commenters have at it.

He simply sees Christianity as the means toward an earthly universalism instead of something secular like communism.

Carpe -

Parents were with us: My ex-Marine father looked over at my mother between us in the pew and said "this is a bunch of bullsh*t". It was sort of funny, she kept scolding both of us to shut up. By that point I stayed just to build a full response.

Blogger VD June 22, 2017 10:07 AM  

He argues that Hewbrews 11 considers Christians to be a-national. Without an earthly home only an eternal one.

Tell him to put on a dress. Because neither male nor female.

Blogger Ransom Smith June 22, 2017 10:15 AM  

@Vox

Savage.

He's still my father. And reasoning won't help. I use to always think he was in charge and now recent years have me thinking my mother took over. Which has sadly caused me to lose a lot of respect.

Just hope he'll see the truth before the excrement hits the rotating oscillator.

Blogger J A Baker June 22, 2017 10:16 AM  

I would have left as soon as I learned that the pastor was from Canada.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer June 22, 2017 10:18 AM  

It is pretty bad in almost all churches. The particular church I am attending is at least still following real doctrine for the most part but it also suffers in some regards. The pastor said in a sermon "love is not sitting by quietly and accepting behavior that will condemn your neighbors to hell" - great point you won't hear in most churches today. Then he follows up in the same sermon with "don't mock your adversaries, you won't convince anyone with mockery." A hard miss on that one.

Meanwhile my parents recently moved and the small town rural area they moved to has no uncucked churches. Sat through a sermon a few weeks ago while visiting where the pastor brought up the crusades 2 or 3 times and how awful they were. Showed absolutely no understanding of what the crusades were about or what caused them.

Blogger Rabbi B June 22, 2017 10:22 AM  

https://www.menofthewest.net/lord-god-follow/

Blogger Chiva June 22, 2017 10:24 AM  

More than likely the Christian who sent this letter to his naturalized, Canadian-born anti-nationalist pastor will soon be gently forced out of that fellowship.

Blogger Brian H June 22, 2017 10:24 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Brian H June 22, 2017 10:26 AM  

Basementhomebrewer -

My wife and I are in this same predicament. You'd think in a rural area it should be easy to find a "proper" church.

I know there's no perfect church, and ya hate to sperg out over "small" stuff. But heck, even a Bible church we visited a for a few weeks recently couldn't seem to go more than a Sunday without a glowing mention of the state of Israel.

Anonymous fop June 22, 2017 10:28 AM  

"He simply sees Christianity as the means toward an earthly universalism."

So Jesus died on the cross so that the world could rebuild the city of Babel?

That's some dangerously f-ed up theology there. Get out of there quick.

Blogger Loyd Jenkins June 22, 2017 10:29 AM  

I have to confess, that as a Christian, many comments and some posts, make me wince. I have to question them, do they go too far?

But this one truly hits home. We, as followers of Jesus, neglect what we should do and play nice so the world likes us. Specifically, nationalism is looking after our neighbors. After all the Parable of the Good Samaritan is to help those we find who are in need. Not go to another country while ignoring those we pass on the street. Also, we are to care for our family. Even Jesus, while hanging on the cross, made sure his mother was taken care of by someone he loved and trusted. He didn't rely on his earthly family to do it. And he came to the House of Israel first, his country. Then the other countries were to be preached to.

We as true followers of Christ need to inspect out lives to bring it more in line with what it should be.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 22, 2017 10:29 AM  

Your dad is not an ex Marine. He will be a Marine until he leaves this earth.

Blogger Ransom Smith June 22, 2017 10:30 AM  

What's bad is the book of Revelation basically lays out that nation's exist in eternity. And it's impossible to convince some people.


Brian and Basement for reset

We need an e-church for the alt right.
Alt Church. No cucks and women allowed to speak.

Blogger Karl Marx June 22, 2017 10:31 AM  

I have come to believe that Modern people who have not grown up in a Traditional society (in an Evolian sense) are incapable of hearing the Gospel for what it is, and therefore need to turn it into cultural Marxism or liberalism or some other Modernist ideology. Until people are once again living under the reign of Caesar, they will not be able to hear the real message about Jesus.

Blogger Rodger James June 22, 2017 10:34 AM  

It is beyond my ability to understand why people are Christians seem to be blind to the globalism = rising spirit of Babylon. I can only understand this when viewed from a spiritual perspective. This must be why it was pointed out that only a spiritual minded person can comprehend those things that are spiritual. Than that would mean most of the Christians appear to lack a spiritual sense. That would further indicate the reality that there will be a great deception and few will enter the gates of heaven despite all the new age love and out reach to the masses.

Blogger Brian H June 22, 2017 10:35 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Brian H June 22, 2017 10:36 AM  

Heh, I definitely hesitated when I wrote "ex-"

Blogger Gimli June 22, 2017 10:38 AM  

I am a college student and a military brat. I have been a regular attendee of easily 12+ churches. Anti Nationalist thinking is so common it would blow your mind. At my current church near school, the political thought of my peers goes from "huh, I wonder if Baron Trump plays Team Fortress 2" all the way to "I am a Christian socialist and you are ungodly if you disagree with me".

My point is that the church is cucked through and through. Any advise where to go for uncucked biblical teaching? I have been attending a Southern Baptist Church, but it doesn't look good for me continuing there.

Blogger Aeoli Pera June 22, 2017 10:40 AM  

Veterans have put their very own lives on the line defending it. This is not true of doctors, teachers, etc. But it's a stretch to equate this to idol worship.

I used to think I was autistic, but then I read stuff like this and I wonder if it's actually these supposed "people" people.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey June 22, 2017 10:40 AM  

Very well written.

Blogger Aeoli Pera June 22, 2017 10:42 AM  

VD wrote:He argues that Hewbrews 11 considers Christians to be a-national. Without an earthly home only an eternal one.

Tell him to put on a dress. Because neither male nor female.


We should find a Gamma preacher and troll them into doing that via doubling down. The optics would make for useful rhetoric.

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. June 22, 2017 10:43 AM  

"'Love your neighbor as yourself' - who IS your neighbor?"

Not a Christian myself, but this is exactly the same point of contention I nearly always have with self-professed Christians.

Fuzzy-up "neighbor", and voilà: Christianity is necessarily the theocratic facade of Globalist Humanism.

A logical conclusion of this conflation being liberal, Humanist judges (whose moral substrate is Christianity minus Christ) and leftist law-makers that believe everyone in the world outside of America are simply Americans that haven't gotten here yet, accorded with all the rights of natives. More, in some instances. Because, you know, it's the 'right' thing to do.

Blogger Aeoli Pera June 22, 2017 10:44 AM  

To do away with this concept may suggest that I'm not supposed to care about my child any more than I should care about any random person anywhere on earth. Do you believe that? If not, where is the dividing line?

Excellent.

Blogger Brian H June 22, 2017 10:44 AM  

Aeoli -

In his response, he started on about his son working to cure HIV in Africa and whether that should also be venerated in church.

...LOL, think he'll like my answer?

Anonymous VFM #6306 June 22, 2017 10:45 AM  

Your neighbor is neither your pastor nor your kinsman nor a foreigner.

Your neighbor is the man who has shown care for you in the past.

I suspect this pastor is no one's neighbor but the devil's.

Blogger Ransom Smith June 22, 2017 10:47 AM  

@Aeoli

My uncle is a pastor. And I wouldn't be hard to make that troll happen. Their Church did a stupid black and white thing a while back.

Cucked beyond belief.

I'm between churches right now because all the ones in my area seem cucked.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 22, 2017 10:48 AM  

Good letter on the whole. I am not as high on these uSA military as the writer is.

Anonymous Looking Glass June 22, 2017 10:49 AM  

This thread reminds me of the first time I was told I came from an ultra-conserative Christian tradition. And my first thought was, "I know German Mennonites; we're god-damn hippies in comparison!", but it's also a reflection of how far off the deep-end most of the Christian churches have gotten.

@25 Rodger James

~200 years of Propaganda and Converged Institutions. It took that long.


@23 Ransom Smith

Crypto.Church: expect the persecution, so prepare properly.

Blogger Elder Son June 22, 2017 10:51 AM  

But no one can enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. Then indeed he may plunder his house.

Blogger dienw June 22, 2017 10:52 AM  

@Ransom
What's bad is the book of Revelation basically lays out that nation's exist in eternity. And it's impossible to convince some people.

Rev 21:12  And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel.... 
Rev 21:24  And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. 

Blogger JohnG June 22, 2017 11:00 AM  

Graham is alright on social issues and Islam, I just have never heard him address anything on nationalism or immigration...which I suppose is the point, but has it come up and he dodged or dissembled?

Blogger Brian H June 22, 2017 11:07 AM  

JohnG -

This was mostly a response to him chastising those two for publicly supporting Trump. It was somewhat irrespective of their specific qualities (some I'm cool with, some I'm not)

Blogger SouthRon June 22, 2017 11:13 AM  

@Ranson Smith

Who's the book of Hebrews written to? Hint: It's in the first verse of the book. Hebrews is written to "the twelve tribes scattered abroad", to the diaspora, not to the church. It's is there to speak to the dispersed Hebrews that they might open their eyes to Messiah.

It is not a guide book for the church. It's more a history of faith that culminated in Christ and the Church.

The country in chapter 11 is literal and historical. Not spiritual of prophetical.

Of course Vox's approach is probably better. But him a dress and use it as a segue to the stupidity of his position.

Anonymous polarbearballs June 22, 2017 11:17 AM  

@6 Mr.MantraMan:

Yep, I actively listen to the millennials and younger folks (18-25), whatevet their generation is called, and I can see it in their eyes and hear it in their tone--even the women.

A cohort that has NOT grown up with "privilege" but instead sees a wave of brown folks everywhere from the local Wal-mart to "muh diversity" Hollywood films, CONSTANTLY pounding on them, mocking them, challenging them, pushing them. All the while shaming THEM for being white.

These normies I think are starting to understand to whom "back of the line" applies--and it has bred resentment, if not exhaustion of the Left on the whole. Just wait till the Dems field their candidates for 2020 prez--and the narrative that will accompany it.

Anonymous Grayman June 22, 2017 11:19 AM  

@5 @8

Love without the balance of hate is nothing but destruction, just as too much or too intense sunlight without the balance of darkness, will scorch the earth. There must be balance to love & HATE just as there is between night and day, hot and cold, life and death.
The greater your love for your neighbor and nation the greater your hate for interlopers must be to produce a balance. The greater the love for the neighbor/nation, the more susceptible you are to having that love corrupted from within by intruding interlopers and hence why they must be fiercely repelled.

Blogger Rabbi B June 22, 2017 11:20 AM  

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. (cf. Romans 12)

As Vox has said many times: You can't reason yourself out of a position into which you have not already reasoned yourself.

Nothing less than a renewal of the mind will do. And what is the only thing that effectively renews the mind and enables us to prove G-d's mind on any issue with which we are confronted?

The Word of G-d and a commitment to conform our thinking, behavior, and lives to what G-d says, rather than conforming G-d's Word to what we deem to be right in our own eyes. I heard somewhere that His thoughts are much higher than ours, and His thoughts on any matter have been revealed to us in His Word.





Blogger Aeoli Pera June 22, 2017 11:23 AM  

Brian H wrote:Aeoli -

In his response, he started on about his son working to cure HIV in Africa and whether that should also be venerated in church.

...LOL, think he'll like my answer?


No, presuming you've learned from the examples of rhetoric Vox has given us over the years. Call him out for dodging the question, then apply the shiv.

Keep up the fight brother. Every textwall he sends you is a victory because you're exhausting his narcissistic supply (and therefore energy). Gather allies and keep pushing him to a breaking point; however the chips fall make it more expensive for him to cuck than for you to push back.

Blogger Aeoli Pera June 22, 2017 11:26 AM  

Ransom Smith wrote:@Aeoli

My uncle is a pastor. And I wouldn't be hard to make that troll happen. Their Church did a stupid black and white thing a while back.

Cucked beyond belief.

I'm between churches right now because all the ones in my area seem cucked.


I feel a hashtag coming on...

#JesusIsMyGender, accompanying cross-dressing pics.

Blogger Aeoli Pera June 22, 2017 11:27 AM  

It would have to quote the verse though, or else nobody would get it.

The Gamma pastors would feel the need to respond, and that means doubling down and signaling. Hence, they'd post pictures of themselves in dresses.

Blogger Elder Son June 22, 2017 11:30 AM  

I am wondering where Jesus said to preach the gospel to all peoples and nations, and then bring all the peoples and nations to Israel.

Blogger Brian H June 22, 2017 11:31 AM  

Aeoli Pera wrote:Keep up the fight brother. Every textwall he sends you is a victory because you're exhausting his narcissistic supply (and therefore energy). Gather allies and keep pushing him to a breaking point; however the chips fall make it more expensive for him to cuck than for you to push back.

Thanks, I'll do what I can. The concern is that others in the audience felt the same way, but won't say anything about it so not to rock the boat. To be clear, this isn't a church where I regularly attend services. I do think the people in the church are probably of a much sounder mind. At least for now.

Blogger Lovekraft June 22, 2017 11:36 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella June 22, 2017 11:43 AM  

The kids- high school and lower, have sat in schools with diversity in full display their entire lives. They'll be called the most racist generation in American history b/c they are the most informed. They are on the front lines. Generation Zyklon is a legitimate name.

There is no sympathy, none, none whatsoever, for immigrants.

Blogger Sam Lively June 22, 2017 11:44 AM  

@41

Graham isn't the deepest thinker on immigration, but he isn't scared of a fight.

He supported Trump's executive order with this language:

"There have been a lot of protests and discussion about President Donald J. Trump’s executive action on immigration," said Rev. Graham in his post. "Some people seem to have forgotten that the priority of the president of the United States is protecting the Constitution and the safety of Americans. That’s exactly what President Trump is trying to do."

Anonymous andon June 22, 2017 12:01 PM  

is the pope a heretic?

Anonymous Azimus June 22, 2017 12:06 PM  

"Love your neighbor as yourself" - who IS your neighbor? Are you certain of just who Jesus defines to be our "neighbor"? If everyone is my neighbor, than no one is my neighbor, in the same way that loyalty to everyone is loyalty to no one.

This is a pretty weak response to the parable of the Good Samaritan. It would've been better to dig straight into the parable of the Samaritan helping the Jewish man in distress to say 1) The man was in distress, not simply looking for work. 2) The man acted voluntarily and individually using only his own resources. It's not like the Samaritan robbed the next party coming down the road to pay for the Jewish man's wounds - which is what the government does, and 3) the Samaritan didn't take him into Samaria, much less his home. You could spend an hour examining each one of these points and really dig into why what we are doing to refugees/illegal aliens is almost universally evil by comparison to the Good Samaritan.

Anonymous Sam the Man June 22, 2017 12:10 PM  

It sounds like Christianity needs another serious reform movement like Martian Luther of 1517 fame, to get back to something like what the various sects should be teaching.

But since the "Church universal" is spread out in so many sects, the really does not seem possible.

Maybe it always comes down to the individual, and the degree to which a particular church is "right" or wrong is not all that critical.

Anonymous andon June 22, 2017 12:16 PM  

You could spend an hour examining each one of these points and really dig into why what we are doing to refugees/illegal aliens is almost universally evil by comparison to the Good Samaritan.

TPTB could help 10X as many (economic) "migrants" for the same price in their own countries, which demonstrates that "helping migrants" is not their goal

Blogger Cail Corishev June 22, 2017 12:18 PM  

He simply sees Christianity as the means toward an earthly universalism

Yep, that's pretty common. Pope Frankie is the perfect example: he kneels to wash the feet of Muslims and transsexuals, but not before the Blessed Sacrament, which Catholics believe IS Jesus Christ present on the altar. More respect for Man than for God. Modernists elevate the material over the spiritual, making the Corporal Works of Mercy the end-all, be-all of their humanistic religion. Instead of "the end of Man" being God, they make it Man.

The problem isn't that feeding the poor and tending to the sick aren't good things; the problem is that that's all of Christianity that really matters to them. The spiritual parts, including worshiping God and keeping His laws, they reduce to a matter of feeling. If you want to do that stuff and work hard to avoid sin, that's great, but it's more important that you go keep a lonely old person company. But don't preach at the old person about God's laws or the need to convert, because that would be intolerant.

Blogger Jeshurun June 22, 2017 12:19 PM  

I'm telling you that this is the end of the Age and these Pharisees are being cast out. God has rejected these hypocrites. They return but not upward. They rend their garments for grain like a whore but not their hearts. Though your people Israel be as the sand of the sea only a few shall return...

Jesus said, "The words I speak to you are spirt and life." Paul knew when he said the letter is death. Let him who has ears hear.

Blogger Raggededge June 22, 2017 12:29 PM  

Patriotic Sundays actually annoy the shit out of me, but maybe I have it all wrong. Patriotic Sunday every Sunday!

Blogger Nick S June 22, 2017 12:36 PM  

That was a "heater" over center home plate. Well done!

@55 Anti-Pope Francis? YES! I'm not a Catholic, but, eevn though I disagree with some of their theology, I give them some respect for their prolific production of erudite philosophers and staunch defenders of the faith, even to death, throughout the centuries. Not to be confused with a blanket endorsement.

Anonymous Looking Glass June 22, 2017 12:36 PM  

@57 Sam the Man

There's about a 500 year cycle among Christianity. Reformation started October 31st, 1517. We're literally coming up on the 500th anniversary. The Fire Comes. It always does.

Blogger Elizabeth June 22, 2017 12:40 PM  

KJ wrote:Quick note on Ethiopian Christians. It was several Ethiopians that first warned me about Muslims and especially Somali and Sudanese Muslims back in the 90s. Centuries of having your land raided by Muslims who want to take your children back to be sex slaves gives a clearer perspective.

Liberals have been saying for I don't know how long that "prejudice is ignorance." That's sometimes true, but, IMO, it's at least equally true that "familiarity breeds contempt."

From my observation and conversations, Old World people who have lived in close contact with Moslems have low opinions of them, to say the least.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer June 22, 2017 12:44 PM  

Sat through a sermon a few weeks ago while visiting where the pastor brought up the crusades 2 or 3 times and how awful they were.

So, he was virtue signaling then. Cause, what would be the point of bringing up the crusades? I'm not saying my church is perfect, but having attended it for eight years, I don't believe I have heard the pastor mention the crusades once.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus June 22, 2017 12:55 PM  

Hot take on the Good Samaritan story: It is not saying that anyone and everyone is your neighbour regardless of race, religion, nationality, etc. It is saying that the people who are your neighbours are those who live like Christians, according to Christian principles drawn from the Word of God. If they're consistently disobeying the Word of God (including the parts about nations remaining separate), then they're not doing this, and thus don't qualify as a "neighbour."

Anonymous basementhomebrewer June 22, 2017 12:57 PM  

Ron Winkleheimer wrote:Sat through a sermon a few weeks ago while visiting where the pastor brought up the crusades 2 or 3 times and how awful they were.

So, he was virtue signaling then. Cause, what would be the point of bringing up the crusades? I'm not saying my church is perfect, but having attended it for eight years, I don't believe I have heard the pastor mention the crusades once.



He was making a "be warriors for Christ" sermon. Then had to qualify it every time by saying "not like the crusades though, those were terrible". It was virtue signalling for sure.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer June 22, 2017 12:57 PM  

Though I have seen stuff that brings up the crusades. The general argument is that the Church did awful stuff in the past, crusades, inquisition, thirty year war, blah, blah blah and therefore lacks credibility with the non-believer. The solution is to be sacharine sweet perfect and doing good works left and right so that non-believers will see how super-awesome Christians are now and will thus will want to come to Christ so that they too can be super-awsome.

The theological and spiritual problems with this approach to spreading the Gospel are numerous. For one, Paul did not go about performing good works to convert people. He performed miracles and argued from evidence.

"3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas,[b] and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born."

Anonymous andon June 22, 2017 1:02 PM  

Sat through a sermon a few weeks ago while visiting where the pastor brought up the crusades 2 or 3 times and how awful they were.

did the pastor pretend that he didnt know what caused the Crusades?

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer June 22, 2017 1:05 PM  

@69

He probably didn't have to pretend. Apparently a lot of people think that a bunch of Christians got it into their heads to go to the Middle East for no other reason than they felt like killing some Muslims. I mean, since Muslims are all about peace and preserving classical Greek learning and stuff, what other reason could there be?

Anonymous William Meisheid June 22, 2017 1:05 PM  

Rodger James wrote:Than that would mean most of the Christians appear to lack a spiritual sense.

I believe we live in an era of carnal Christianity and that truly biblical Christians are few, hense most Christians lack a true spiritual sense. As Paul noted in 1 Cor. 3:1-3: "And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?"


Elder Son wrote:I am wondering where Jesus said to preach the gospel to all peoples and nations, and then bring all the peoples and nations to Israel.

Commonly called the Great Commission - Matthew 28:18-20 "And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore[c] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”"

Anonymous William Meisheid June 22, 2017 1:16 PM  

Ron Winkleheimer wrote:For one, Paul did not go about performing good works to convert people. He performed miracles and argued from evidence.

I would add these references.
1 Corinthians 1:17 "For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect."

1 Corinthians 1:23 'but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness"

1 Corinthians 2:4 "And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power"

Anonymous glosoli June 22, 2017 1:18 PM  

It's heartening to see others challenging the liars on these important issues, there is only Truth, and lies must be highlighted.

I attend an evangelical CoE church, I'm new to faith (c. 12 months), and the church is not quite churchian, but neither is it in any way leading the congregation the right way. I am already trying to influence the vicar, and recently refused to confirm my baptism there, as they involve women in the services. Women lead prayers, lead the service, but never give sermons. It's a crappy submission to the gynarchy.

So I met with the vicar, who is a decent man, we discussed it, he was a bit upset, but prayed for humility. He felt it was optically good to involve women. I disagreed.

I wrote him an email, copying a link that objectively examined the women issue (it agreed that they shouldn't speak or prophesy in church). I included the following statement:

'I don't intend to leave our church over this issue, although I do see it's a symptom of what ails our society: the elevation of women and their entitled feelings over most other issues. Eve felt she deserved to eat of the tree of knowledge for the same reason, and look where that got us.

I feel somehow God placed me in your congregation for a purpose, so until He guides me otherwise, you're stuck with me. Like the Lord Jesus, I speak plainly and honestly and like you, want to see our nation return to its days of strong widespread Christianity.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=nation '

He hasn't responded yet, but I will do my best to red-pill him. He's told me he and other vicars he knows are making plans, ready to leave the CoE in due course, I told him I'd have left already and started my own church. I believe God wants us to fight to save a church, but if we fail, we kick the dust off our feet and start our own, taking as many believers with us as possible. I will do that, women in veils, a traditional church.

It's key to saving the West.
May God be with us in our fight.

Anonymous Claymore June 22, 2017 1:18 PM  

Canadian-born; he must go back.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer June 22, 2017 1:22 PM  

Ron Winkleheimer wrote:@69

He probably didn't have to pretend. Apparently a lot of people think that a bunch of Christians got it into their heads to go to the Middle East for no other reason than they felt like killing some Muslims. I mean, since Muslims are all about peace and preserving classical Greek learning and stuff, what other reason could there be?



There is a purposeful lack of education on the time period. I took AP European history in high school and it just coincidentally started in 1500 and a brief touch point on the the renaissance . None of my world history classes going into high school covered the time frame in any detail either. It was continuously glossed over year after year. I remember having to learn about the pillars of Islam in 6th grade but there was never any substantive discussion on how it's origins or how it was spread.

The only way anyone learns the truth about the crusades is if they specifically take specialized courses in College or study it themselves. There is no effort to teach that history in any of the "Gen Ed" classes in college or in primary/secondary school.

I have never been to Seminary but one would think it would be a relevant topic. From what I have seen here about seminary schools I very much doubt the seminary schools are covering the topic.

Anonymous William Meisheid June 22, 2017 1:26 PM  

glosoli wrote:I told him I'd have left already and started my own church. I believe God wants us to fight to save a church, but if we fail, we kick the dust off our feet and start our own, taking as many believers with us as possible. I will do that, women in veils, a traditional church.

I like what your countryman, J.R.R. Tolkien said over 50 years ago, "...the spirit of wickedness in high places is now so powerful and many-headed in its incarnations that there seems nothing more to do than personally refuse to worship any of the hydras' heads."

Anonymous glosoli June 22, 2017 1:33 PM  

@76,

I met a Northen Irish guy recently, he works for the Christian Institute, fighting satan. He reckoned the UK is so far gone we're already under God's judgement.

Given what I see coming down the road politically, socially and economically, I think he may be correct. A cleansing is required.

Anonymous DissidentRight June 22, 2017 1:37 PM  

Who is my neighbor?

Jews had much the same few of Samaritans that Yankee progressives have of Southerners, or for that matter, that sensible people have of ghetto blacks. In the Parable of the Good Samaritan, Jesus clarifies that apostates with mixed ethnicity are your neighbor.

There is simply no getting around this. Trying to attack this teaching head, or find some loophole, or theologize it away, is not a good idea and more importantly not necessary.

The passage is bad enough by itself but the message gets much worse when you combine it with Matthew 5:38-48, etc.

Obviously, some of Jesus’ commands, when pursued to an absurd conclusion, are dyscivic, as churchians and cucks demonstrate today. (I say “absurd” because Christendom has had these words of Jesus for 2000 years and managed to grow and thrive, not destroy itself.)

America has two big problems in this regard. In the first place, Americans have trouble separating their personal views from the national interest (in part because Americans have almost no sense of the “national interest”), which is a problem when those people are expected to participate in government. How can someone who is unable to separate personal beliefs from national interest and believes “love your enemies and do good to those who hate you”, declare, wage, or win a war? (Hot, cold, political, or cultural.) They can’t.

The second big problem is that the First Amendment is a suicide pact. The religion of Islam contradicts America’s national interest. The religion of Judaism contradicts America’s national interest. Most importantly, the religions of Churchianity/Cuckianity contradict America’s national interest.

If America is to survive, dyscivic religions must be destroyed. By the State, if necessary.

Anonymous Sam the Man June 22, 2017 1:40 PM  

hmmm

Why are Christians not proud of the crusades, in particular the first one from 1096 to 1099?

1) The odds against the Christians were overwhelming, yet they won. Somebody favored them.

2) The Franks proved to be much better soldiers than the Muslims, in almost every way.

3) The Franks seem to have done the deed as a genuine act of faith in their G-D and Savoir, to free the holy land for their pilgrims, and help out the Anatolian/Syrian churches that were still left 350 years after the initial onslaught.

4) Some Chap Peter of Bartholomew found the head of the lance that pierced JC side, at least I seem to recall reading that the finding of said lance head was pretty miraculous. Wonder where that is now.

The only thing that one could reasonably object to was the slaughter of the Jews in Jerusalem in 1099, but I am pretty sure most folks have read about that, ad nauseam.

Blogger Carl Philipp June 22, 2017 1:41 PM  

"I like what your countryman, J.R.R. Tolkien said over 50 years ago, "...the spirit of wickedness in high places is now so powerful and many-headed in its incarnations that there seems nothing more to do than personally refuse to worship any of the hydras' heads." "

Solzhenitsyn's famous essay "Live Not By Lies" is on point, and the meat of it is advice that anybody can follow. Not everybody is cut out to be a warrior, and not everybody should be a warrior - but those who will be passive, are not helpless. As I explained it to a friend, "avoid situations where you know you will be tempted to lie just to fit in."

Blogger kh123 June 22, 2017 1:49 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Astalnar June 22, 2017 1:50 PM  

I always thought "love your neighbour" sounds rather strange. That something must be wrong with it. I think the reason for that lies in the fact that in my own language it would translate to "love your close ones".

Blogger Darwinian Arminian June 22, 2017 1:52 PM  

@54 Sam Lively

Let's also not forget that Graham hasn't been afraid to go to the mattresses on behalf of traditional Christians when the broader culture targets them as the lead attraction in the latest Two Minutes Hate. The best example I can think of with this was when the Christian couple running a bakery in Portland declined to make a cake for a lesbian wedding and the local government shut down their business and issued them a six-figure fine. Their financial situation got so bad that they put up a page on Kickstarter asking for help, but were ultimately banned after SJWs targeted them again and the site managers put out a statement saying that their platform wouldn't be used to give aid to "bigots." It was Franklin Graham who stepped up and used his Samaritan's Purse website to lead a fundraising effort to help them pay their bills after the social justice crowd had not only destroyed their livelihood but made sure that they wouldn't be allowed to even beg for money.

Meanwhile, Tony Campolo and his "red letter Christians" excoriated the bakery owners because, as they said, "Jesus would have baked the cake!" Likewise, Russell Moore and his ERLC group which was specifically created to advocate for the religious liberty of Christians barely even saw fit to mention them, much less call the church to their aid. But they did use legal assistance to help get a mosque built in New Jersey.

There's probably a lot that I'd disagree with Graham on both theologically and politically, but when I consider someone like him along with most of the capitulating cowards in the modern church and ask "Who is my Christian brother?" it's not even a tough call. Sadly.

Blogger kh123 June 22, 2017 1:54 PM  

"Solzhenitsyn's famous essay "Live Not By Lies" is on point, and the meat of it is advice that anybody can follow. Not everybody is cut out to be a warrior, and not everybody should be a warrior - but those who will be passive, are not helpless. As I explained it to a friend, "avoid situations where you know you will be tempted to lie just to fit in.""

And yet he himself remembered with disgust his time as "Vetrov." Which is why he also described certain institutions as grinding millstones: Not everything in life allows us to avoid getting ground into those situations wherein the temptation to lie, even to ourselves, can be avoided.

Anonymous DissidentRight June 22, 2017 1:54 PM  

Astalnar wrote:I always thought "love your neighbour" sounds rather strange. That something must be wrong with it. I think the reason for that lies in the fact that in my own language it would translate to "love your close ones".
According to Jesus, your "close ones" include hated, ethnically-mixed apostates.

Blogger Elder Son June 22, 2017 1:55 PM  

@71

Elder Son wrote:
I am wondering where Jesus said to preach the gospel to all peoples and nations, and then bring all the peoples and nations to Israel.


William Meisheid wrote:
Commonly called the Great Commission - Matthew 28:18-20 "And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore[c] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”"


Obviously, you missed the question: ...and then bring all the peoples and nations to Israel. Ya know, the state, the country, the nation.

Obviously, we should bring preach the gospel to all peoples and nations. We obviously do not want all peoples and nations in Israel, anymore than we want all peoples and nations in America. That is not the Great Commission.

Anonymous glosoli June 22, 2017 1:55 PM  

@82,

Same meaning, it derives from love your near-dweller.
http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=neighbor

Not those who dwell far away. Hence, Thatcher was correct: there is no such thing as 'society'. Just neighbourhoods.

Blogger Stilicho June 22, 2017 2:00 PM  

@55 is the pope a heretic? No, you have to be a Christian to be a Christian heretic. Pope francine simply isn't a Christian. See, e.g. #59, see also "wolves in sheeps' clothing"

Blogger Sam Lively June 22, 2017 2:02 PM  

@83

Agree completely. More often than not, Frank Graham is on the fight side of fight/flight. Ditto Jerry Falwell, Jr. from what I've seen of him.

Doesn't have the cringing posture of paper martyrs like Dreher. Certainly not a Wormtongue like Moore.

Blogger Rabbi B June 22, 2017 2:04 PM  

Color me skeptical, but I just don't think Jesus intended the parable of the good Samaritan to be used as a proof text for governing a nation's immigration policies.

#ParablesForDummies

Blogger VD June 22, 2017 2:07 PM  

In the Parable of the Good Samaritan, Jesus clarifies that apostates with mixed ethnicity are your neighbor.

That's not true. The Good Samaritan is the injured man's neighbor because he helped the man. That does not make all Samaritans neighbors.

Blogger Carl Philipp June 22, 2017 2:09 PM  

"And yet he himself remembered with disgust his time as "Vetrov." Which is why he also described certain institutions as grinding millstones: Not everything in life allows us to avoid getting ground into those situations wherein the temptation to lie, even to ourselves, can be avoided."

Indeed. That will be one of the benefits as alternate institutions and alternate platforms are constructed. Warriors do not merely secure peace for themselves, but also for those who are incapable of securing peace for themselves.

Blogger VD June 22, 2017 2:10 PM  

More to the point, according to the parable, neither the priest nor the Levite are neighbors. Everyone is not your enemy and everyone is not your neighbor. The actual point of the parable is to show mercy to people in need of it when you encounter them, even if they are not your kind.

Blogger VD June 22, 2017 2:11 PM  

Notice that Jesus does not actually say that the Samaritan is the injured man's neighbor.

"Now which of these three do you think seemed to be a neighbour to him who fell among the robbers?"

There is no actual definition of neighbor provided. That's not the point.

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros June 22, 2017 2:21 PM  

"Color me skeptical, but I just don't think Jesus intended the parable of the good Samaritan to be used as a proof text for governing a nation's immigration policies.

#ParablesForDummies"

Oh please. Next you'll tell me that Galatians 3:28 was not given to refute the idea that psychology is affected by genetics.

Anonymous BBGKB June 22, 2017 2:22 PM  

Brian H In his response, he started on about his son working to cure HIV in Africa and whether that should also be venerated in church

There is no cure for HIV just expensive meds as treatment for life. Even worse sending meds to Africa causes drug resistance due to low IQ. Tell your pastor that when gays start dropping dead like they did in the 80s he should thank those who sent meds to Africa. Drug resistant AIDS came to the US last year via African refusegees.

There is no actual definition of neighbor provided.

Reminds me of
Dick Francis novel:“A man was beaten and robbed by thieves, left bleeding and unconscious in a gutter. Two (((sociologists))) came along, gasped in horror. One said to the other, ‘The man who did this needs our help.'

Blogger Rabbi B June 22, 2017 2:23 PM  

@91 VD

Yes. The idea is simply, who behaved in a neighborly fashion to the injured man? Two others, a Levite and a Pharisee passed the guy up before the one who was least expected to provide aid to the injured party did so. IIRC, Jesus ended the parable with a question: Who was a neighbor to the man? And the original person who posed the question was instructed to go an do likewise.

Samaritans were hated and considered conniving, heretical, opportunists see Nehemiah)

The fact that the Samaritan is the one to offer help, creates a rhetorical impact that Jesus' audience weren't expecting. It served to reinforce a salient point that would not have been lost on His hearers.


Anonymous William Meisheid June 22, 2017 2:30 PM  

Elder Son wrote:@71

Obviously, you missed the question: ...and then bring all the peoples and nations to Israel. Ya know, the state, the country, the nation.


Sorry, I should have added to that Rev 21:24-27 'And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light [New Jerusalem], and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it [New Jerusalem]. 25 Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26 And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it. 27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life."

I think that qualifies for the second part of the nations coming to Israel (Jerusalem) after their conversion, don't you? Not to live there, but bring their nation's honor to present to the LORD.

Blogger OGRE June 22, 2017 2:32 PM  

very well laid out by the original writer

Blogger Darwinian Arminian June 22, 2017 2:33 PM  

If SJWs had written the parable of the Good Samaritan it would have ended with the Samaritan proving his neighborliness by . . . scouring the injured man's body for any valuables he still had on him, then running off in search of the robbers while yelling, "Hey! You missed a few things. And I've got some spare cash on me that you can have too! I know that you're all good kids who probably just had a rough upbringing, and I'd like to help teach you how to shake down the oppressive systems that are truly responsible for making innocent folks like you do something like this in the first place . . . . "

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros June 22, 2017 2:41 PM  

"The fact that the Samaritan is the one to offer help, creates a rhetorical impact that Jesus' audience weren't expecting. It served to reinforce a salient point that would not have been lost on His hearers. "

And a common point he made, at that. It's no coincidence He was speaking to people who trusted their virtue-signaling their membership in the religious elite. "Virtue-signaling is useless if you don't have actual virtue" is a major theme, and directly applicable to the modern rainbow-washed tombs who show their love and support for all people by sabotaging the effects of Whites to protect their children from sex slavery.

Blogger SirHamster June 22, 2017 2:41 PM  

VD wrote:The actual point of the parable is to show mercy to people in need of it when you encounter them, even if they are not your kind.

Illustrated for those looking to inherit eternal life.

Anonymous BBGKB June 22, 2017 2:46 PM  

Samaritans were hated and considered conniving, heretical, opportunists see Nehemiah) The fact that the Samaritan is the one to offer help, creates a rhetorical impact that Jesus' audience weren't expecting.

What if this was history's first recorded "Not All Samaritan's Are Like That... I Know A Good One"

Blogger Cail Corishev June 22, 2017 2:51 PM  

Why are Christians not proud of the crusades, in particular the first one from 1096 to 1099?

You answered your own question: Jews fought on the side of the Muslims in Jerusalem, and were slaughtered or otherwise treated badly. That's not the only reason, of course, but in the post-WWII era, you're not allowed to be proud of anything that included that.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd June 22, 2017 2:55 PM  

Cail Corishev wrote:The problem isn't that feeding the poor and tending to the sick aren't good things; ...

God's work is building relationship with Him, and between believers. Feeding the hungry, tending teh sick, clothing the naked, et cetera, are God's work ONLY if they accomplish that relationship building.

Anonymous andon June 22, 2017 2:56 PM  

88. Blogger Stilicho June 22, 2017 2:00 PM
@55 is the pope a heretic? No, you have to be a Christian to be a Christian heretic. Pope francine simply isn't a Christian. See, e.g. #59, see also "wolves in sheeps' clothing"


makes sense

btw, somebody mentioned on a podcast the other day that the wolf in sheeps clothing is the actual symbol chosen by one of those New World Order organizations

Anonymous andon June 22, 2017 3:03 PM  

there used to be a radio program called Southwest Radio Ministries or something like that, out of Oklahoma that used to say there was a bible verse that talked about the foreigner rustling in the bushes and the hosts of the show (Noah Hutchings etc) used that as a reason why the illegal aliens should be deported. I dont know enough about the bible so i cant name the verse.

Anonymous the management June 22, 2017 3:07 PM  

William Meisheid wrote:Sorry, I should have added to that Rev 21:24-27 'And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light [New Jerusalem], and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it [New Jerusalem]. 25 Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26 And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it. 27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life."

I think that qualifies for the second part of the nations coming to Israel (Jerusalem) after their conversion, don't you? Not to live there, but bring their nation's honor to present to the LORD.


Only if there aren't any unbelieving Jews inside. That would seem to cross the earthly state of Israel from the list.

I really get tired of dispensationalism. They get SO excited about an earthly kingdom for the Jews that they can't be bothered to look after their own ... hey, that sounds familiar.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 22, 2017 3:08 PM  

@105, right. Your good works are supposed to be an expression of your faith, not a replacement for it. You can't say, "Well, I don't really go in for Commandments #3 and #6 so much, but I'm good with God because I work at the soup kitchen three nights a week." That's not how this works.

Blogger Jack Ward June 22, 2017 3:21 PM  

@22
I can relate. Both my brother and I are Marines [not ex anything] with one tour apiece in the Nam. Don't know what the USMC training is like these days but, from then to here you forget very little. I can still rattle off my service number after getting out in '69'. Someone once did a study to see how much was retained by Viet Nam era vets. The army guys forgot most of it within a year or so. The study said that the Marine vets were lucky if they ever forgot any on it. So true.

Blogger Brian H June 22, 2017 3:38 PM  

The pastor argued that Timothy 5:8 has no relevance with nationalism.

But it occurred to me: if he can argue the Good Samaritan means that all peoples are my neighbor and must be prioritized equally...

Then I certainly ought to be able to extrapolate family-first to my greater genetic kin.

One's at least as logical as the other. Fair's fair, right?

Anonymous DissidentRight June 22, 2017 3:46 PM  

Thanks for the responses Vox.

There is no actual definition of neighbor provided. That's not the point.

I agree. Jesus’ main point was to slap down the teacher of the Law who was trying to justify himself. He actually thought he was a good Jew who kept the Law, Jesus demonstrated that he was not. However, the way in which Jesus answers (that is: doesn’t answer) the question “Who is my neighbor?”

36: “Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?”

37: The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.” Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

is important as Rabbi B points out:

The fact that the Samaritan is the one to offer help, creates a rhetorical impact that Jesus' audience weren't expecting.

However, the details of the parable are still relevant. Jesus is implying that the Law requires us to be “neighbors to” Samaritans, whores, traitor tax collectors, Muslims, mudsharks, and SJWs. Namely: love thy neighbor as thyself = love everyone as thyself.

Obviously he doesn't say this directly. But I don't think Jesus was concerned with whether postmodern churchians would, in the distant future, use his parable to attack Christendom.

Anonymous DissidentRight June 22, 2017 3:50 PM  

Brian H wrote:The pastor argued that Timothy 5:8 has no relevance with nationalism.

But it occurred to me: if he can argue the Good Samaritan means that all peoples are my neighbor and must be prioritized equally...

Then I certainly ought to be able to extrapolate family-first to my greater genetic kin.

One's at least as logical as the other. Fair's fair, right?

I can argue that all people "are your neighbor" without arguing that they must be prioritized equally, at least in civil and political matters.

If the traitors and cucks say, "You're a bad hypocritical Christian!", the response is the same: "We don't care and you have to go back."

Blogger Snidely Whiplash @SnidelyWhiplash on gab.ai. Speak freely. June 22, 2017 3:53 PM  

Does he preach against fornication? Fornication is a sin. Does he preach against adultery? Adultery is a sin. Does he preach against sodomy? Sodomy is a sin. Does he preach against divorce? Divorce is usually a sin. Does he preach against gluttony? Gluttony is a sin. Does he preach against men who submit to their wives? Does he preach against women working outside the home? Does he preach against turning your children over to the enemies of God to be raised and educated?

Or does he only preach against things that Liberals find objectionable, things like nationalism, racism, sexism, homophobia, islamophobia?

Blogger Brian H June 22, 2017 4:08 PM  

Snidely Whiplash @SnidelyWhiplash on gab.ai. Speak freely. wrote:Or does he only preach against things that Liberals find objectionable, things like nationalism, racism, sexism, homophobia, islamophobia?

Unsure. This is a church I've only visited twice.

Don't intend to find out unfortunately...

Blogger Rabbi B June 22, 2017 4:09 PM  

@114 Snidely Whiplash

Or does he only preach against things that Liberals find objectionable, things like nationalism, racism, sexism, homophobia, islamophobia?

It's always amusing to watch the liberals use the Bible, a book to which they do not subscribe, let alone believe in, to justify and argue for the veracity of their inane positions.

It doesn't get any crazier than watching Leftists and their pathetic attempts to hold true believers to the standards of a Book they do not understand, standards which they regularly ridicule, authored by a G-d Whom they reject and mock at every opportunity, and Whose authority they themselves spurn.

If they didn't have double-standards, they would have no standards at all. Morons.

Blogger Brian H June 22, 2017 4:09 PM  

DissidentRight wrote:I can argue that all people "are your neighbor" without arguing that they must be prioritized equally, at least in civil and political matters.

Oh for sure. Just trying to point it out for argument's sake. He gets to extrapolate, while I don't.

Blogger roughcoat June 22, 2017 4:12 PM  

Tangential...

Beyond Pro-Choice: The Solution to White Supremacy is White Abortion

Written by:

Nicole Valentine

Profile description:

"Worship Leader for the Progressive Women's Christian Ministry at my college, intersectional feminist, dedicated to Jesus and the progressive movement as a whole! Also an advocate for AAPI rights as a woman of color! Jesus, women, and progress: basically my life! White men need not contact."

Blogger roughcoat June 22, 2017 4:16 PM  

^

Poe's law strikes again? I seriously cannot tell anymore. Reads like that fake article the dude in SA convinced Huffpo(?) to print a few weeks/months back. You know, then got fired for it when they stalked him at work.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus June 22, 2017 4:20 PM  

@ 113 I can argue that all people "are your neighbor"

I don't think you can really make that argument, however. The actual term "neighbour" is translated from plesios. This term is used through Greek literature to essentially describe someone or something who is near to you, close by you, bordering you, or who acts like you. The term, as we see it in the parable of the Good Samaritan, is used in the exact same way. It's a word that modifies activity, nor being. It is not being used to say "everyone's your neighbour!!!!" Rather, it's being used to say that "people who act like you, who follow God and show the same compassion that the Father does, those are your neighbours."

This is important because, as has been pointed out, the Levite and the priest who passed by were NOT neighbours. If we want to draw the conclusion that the Samaritan IS a neighbour to the wounded man, then we MUST also logically draw the concurrent conclusion that the other two were not. So right there, the "everybody is your neighbour" argument goes right out the window. Not everybody is your neighbour, and Jesus did not say they were, nor does He seem to have intended for anyone to ever draw that conclusion from it.

So who IS a neighbour? If we wish to draw a spiritual conclusion from the parable (which is surely intended), then it is someone whose ACTIONS indicate neighbourliness, the sort of active type of friendship which is part of the word plesios's connotative meaning. The Samaritan showed this, and thus was a neighbour. He wasn't a neighbour because he was a furrrrner and God sez we should love all da furrrnerrs. That doesn't even come into it at all. The Samaritan's race comes in only for the shock value, not for any universalistic premise about race or ethnicity being all equally loved by us b/c they all God's chilluns.

Indeed, those who do NOT act like us are NOT our neighbours. Muslims are not our neighbours. Prostitues are not our neighbours. These folks CAN be if they repent of their sins and call upon the Lord Jesus for salvation and then begin to bring forth fruits meet for repentance. But as it stands from the parable, the prostitute and the Muslim are the same as the Levite and the priest - neither of the sets demonstrate true kinship and friendship to the Gospel of God, and therefore neither are neighbours.

I'm not one of these folks out there who gets all uptight and rejects Christianity because "s***skins" belong to it. But at the same time, a genuinely born again African Christian or Latin American Christian will understand from Scripture that mass immigration and migration of their peoples into other nations' lands is contrary to God's purposes for the nations in Scripture. They won't do it. the irony in all of this is that those Hispanic and black Christians out there who genuinely ARE neighbours to white Christians demonstrate (in part) that fact by not invading white Christian lands. They stay put where they belong, and leave other nations to live where they belong.

Blogger VD June 22, 2017 4:29 PM  

Jesus is implying that the Law requires us to be “neighbors to” Samaritans, whores, traitor tax collectors, Muslims, mudsharks, and SJWs. Namely: love thy neighbor as thyself = love everyone as thyself.

No, you can't. That's ridiculous. The two passersby were not neighbors and didn't even seem like a neighbor to the injured man.

Blogger SirHamster June 22, 2017 4:33 PM  

DissidentRight wrote:However, the details of the parable are still relevant. Jesus is implying that the Law requires us to be “neighbors to” Samaritans, whores, traitor tax collectors, Muslims, mudsharks, and SJWs. Namely: love thy neighbor as thyself = love everyone as thyself.

The standard of love is set to, as thyself.

If you don't want to be helped by a stranger when waylaid by bandits, neither do you have to help such strangers.

If you don't want to be imported to a foreign country to become a worthless dependent on their social systems, neither do you have to do such to others.

Anonymous DissidentRight June 22, 2017 4:41 PM  

The two passersby were not neighbors and didn't even seem like a neighbor to the injured man.

Jesus never said whether they were or weren't his neighbors. As you already pointed out, Jesus doesn't directly answer "who is my neighbor?"

What he does is confirm that the Samaritan treated the robbed man (presumably a Samaritan-hating Jew) as a neighbor, and command the lawyer to do likewise.

The implication is clear, insofar as we can consider the parable an answer to the question.

Anonymous DissidentRight June 22, 2017 4:45 PM  

SirHamster wrote:DissidentRight wrote:However, the details of the parable are still relevant. Jesus is implying that the Law requires us to be “neighbors to” Samaritans, whores, traitor tax collectors, Muslims, mudsharks, and SJWs. Namely: love thy neighbor as thyself = love everyone as thyself.

The standard of love is set to, as thyself.

If you don't want to be helped by a stranger when waylaid by bandits, neither do you have to help such strangers.

If you don't want to be imported to a foreign country to become a worthless dependent on their social systems, neither do you have to do such to others.


Aphorisms are the fruit, not the root. God sets the standard of love in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd June 22, 2017 4:50 PM  

Cail Corishev wrote:@105, right. Your good works are supposed to be an expression of your faith, not a replacement for it. You can't say, "Well, I don't really go in for Commandments #3 and #6 so much, but I'm good with God because I work at the soup kitchen three nights a week." That's not how this works.

I think I agree with what you are saying, and I think my point was different than what you are saying.

As I said, God wants relationships. I'm thinking of John 15:15, in which Jesus told his disciples something like ``Servants don't know what their master is doing, but I'm telling you what I'm doing because you are my friends.'' That's what God wants for each of us: He wants to be able to call us friends, as He called His disciples. Keeping commandments or tending the sick are worthless, unless we are building that relationship with God.

As you say, doing things like keeping the commandments and tending the sick are great ways to build that relationship - if you are not doing them for the wrong reasons.

I think you're focused on James, and I'm focused on First Corinthians 13.

Anonymous DissidentRight June 22, 2017 4:57 PM  

Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus:

This is important because, as has been pointed out, the Levite and the priest who passed by were NOT neighbours. If we want to draw the conclusion that the Samaritan IS a neighbour to the wounded man, then we MUST also logically draw the concurrent conclusion that the other two were not. So right there, the "everybody is your neighbour" .

The priest and Levite failed to behave as neighbors, for which Jesus implicitly condemns them. They SHOULD have behaved as neighbors.

argument goes right out the window. Not everybody is your neighbour, and Jesus did not say they were, nor does He seem to have intended for anyone to ever draw that conclusion from it.

Jesus implicitly commanded the lawyer to treat Samaritans as neighbors.

They stay put where they belong, and leave other nations to live where they belong.

The Parable of the Good Samaritan has no implications for government policy. It has implications for what you have to do to be saved outside of Christ.

Blogger Johnny June 22, 2017 4:59 PM  


Something people overlook about the Samaritans is that they were a kindred people. They were the left overs of the northern ten tribe region who still practiced a version of Judaism. From the standpoint of the Judeans they were a heretical sect of the same.

The modern equivalent of telling a parable that flatters the Samaritans would be the Pope giving a parable that flatters the good behavior of someone in a protestant sect. Not exactly the same as inviting a follower of Islam into your house.

If we suppose Jesus had a political message in mind, the obvious one is that the Judeans and Samaritans should be allies not enemies. And as for other groups, I doubt Jesus thought that "love thy neighbor" should be a suicide pact. You know, be nice to people who want to kill you.

Blogger SirHamster June 22, 2017 5:01 PM  

DissidentRight wrote:Aphorisms are the fruit, not the root. God sets the standard of love in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

You are twisting the words of the Bible for some other purpose.

"He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”"

Those are the standards God commanded and Jesus affirmed. Note that it is not, "Love your neighbor with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind."

The SJW living amongst us but plotting betrayal and destruction - he is not our neighbor. The Muslim ready to behead infidels in the name of Muhammed - he is our enemy. Your wrongful categorization of those as neighbors is falsehood - and your persistence shows that your words are not innocent.

There is no commmand to love one's enemy as oneself, or with all our heart, soul, mind, strength.

Blogger SirHamster June 22, 2017 5:02 PM  

DissidentRight wrote:Jesus implicitly commanded the lawyer to treat Samaritans as neighbors.

Jesus commanded the lawyer to behave like the Good Samaritan, and to consider the Good Samaritan a neighbor. Not All Samaritans.

The Parable of the Good Samaritan has no implications for government policy. It has implications for what you have to do to be saved outside of Christ.

There is no salvation outside of Christ.

Anonymous DissidentRight June 22, 2017 5:10 PM  

The modern equivalent of telling a parable that flatters the Samaritans would be the Pope giving a parable that flatters the good behavior of someone in a protestant sect. Not exactly the same as inviting a follower of Islam into your house.

Yeah, maybe if the Pope had said that while in the midst of the Reformation wars.

Besides the fact that the Northern Kingdom was cut off from the temple and was heavily involved in Caanite idoaltry, they were frequently at war with Judah. And the Samaritans were the descendents of the mudsharks who the Assyrians left behind.

Recasting the Good Samaritan as a Muslim would be pretty fair, actually. Although these days, most people would miss the point.

If we suppose Jesus had a political message in mind

My kingdom is not of this world.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd June 22, 2017 5:16 PM  

DissidentRight wrote:The Parable of the Good Samaritan ... has implications for what you have to do to be saved outside of Christ.

Heresy. Idiotic troll heresy.

Blogger Johnny June 22, 2017 5:27 PM  

DissidentRight wrote:Besides the fact that the Northern Kingdom was cut off from the temple and was heavily involved in Caanite idoaltry, they were frequently at war with Judah. And the Samaritans were the descendents of the mudsharks who the Assyrians left behind.

We are not talking about the Northern Kingdom of Samaria. You got to be a Samaritan by believing in the Samaritan Pentateuch, which was very close to being the Torah.

Because rural people were not commonly political in ye olden days, too out of touch to be, the Samaritans were probably the leftover rural Hebrew population who got left behind.

Anonymous DissidentRight June 22, 2017 5:29 PM  

The SJW living amongst us but plotting betrayal and destruction - he is not our neighbor.

That's what the lawyer was probably thinking: "Samaritans are not my neighbor." It is one thing for Christians who live in a fallen world to wage (and win) politics and war. It is another thing to try to "justify" it. We don't need any particular theological justification for it. The REAL justifications are all material.

The Muslim ready to behead infidels in the name of Muhammed - he is our enemy.

Yes, and Jesus commanded you to love your enemy.

and your persistence shows that your words are not innocent.

Definitely not innocent.

There is no commmand to love one's enemy as oneself, or with all our heart, soul, mind, strength.
True. "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you."

Jesus commanded the lawyer to behave like the Good Samaritan, and to consider the Good Samaritan a neighbor. Not All Samaritans.

The robbed man is understood to be a Jew. Jews hated Samaritans. The Samaritan treated the Jew like a neighbor. Jesus commands the lawyer to do like the Samaritan. If the lawyer is supposed to emulate the material action, he would be treating fellow Jews as neighbors. If he supposed to emulate the logic, he would be treating half-breed apostates as neighbors.

There is no salvation outside of Christ.

If you follow the Law of Moses perfectly, you do not need Christ to be saved. (Obviously that is impossible--but the Jews didn't quite get it.) The lawyer was asking a legal question, seeking to justify himself in the eyes of the Law.

Anonymous DissidentRight June 22, 2017 5:32 PM  

Ominous Cowherd wrote:DissidentRight wrote:The Parable of the Good Samaritan ... has implications for what you have to do to be saved outside of Christ.

Heresy. Idiotic troll heresy.

The lawyer was trying to justify himself. JUSTIFY. That is, demonstrate that he had kept the Law of Moses.

It is impossible for us to keep the Law of Moses, but if you want to be saved outside of Christ, that is what you have to do.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella June 22, 2017 5:38 PM  

How's about, as westerners, we get the best of all worlds: the social life of a pro-social religious movement, and the safety of a law and order Roman military and police, and the debating, truth-telling, and government of the northwestern germanic tribes?

Blogger Cail Corishev June 22, 2017 5:38 PM  

Judeo-Christ saith to him: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me. Or by keeping the Old Covenant. Whatever works for you." -- The Gospel of Judeo-Christ 14:6

Blogger Elder Son June 22, 2017 5:42 PM  

William Meisheid wrote:Elder Son wrote:@71

Obviously, you missed the question: ...and then bring all the peoples and nations to Israel. Ya know, the state, the country, the nation.


Sorry, I should have added to that Rev 21:24-27 'And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light [New Jerusalem], and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it [New Jerusalem]. 25 Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26 And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it. 27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life."

I think that qualifies for the second part of the nations coming to Israel (Jerusalem) after their conversion, don't you? Not to live there, but bring their nation's honor to present to the LORD.


You're just picking your nose and eating the boogers.

Are we there yet? Ya know, the New Jerusalem?

Here is what I said:

Elder Son wrote:I am wondering where Jesus said to preach the gospel to all peoples and nations, and then bring all the peoples and nations to Israel.

Blogger Elder Son June 22, 2017 5:51 PM  

The Muslim ready to behead infidels in the name of Muhammed - he is our enemy.

Yes, and Jesus commanded you to love your enemy.

@133 Says: No! Wait! Don't chop off my children and wife's head! I'll wash your feet! Slap me a million times! I'll love you every which and Sunday! Just don't head chop my family!

Anonymous DissidentRight June 22, 2017 5:58 PM  

Cail Corishev wrote:Judeo-Christ saith to him: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me. Or by keeping the Old Covenant. Whatever works for you." -- The Gospel of Judeo-Christ 14:6
Judeo-Christs accepts anyone who keeps the Old Covenant half-assed. God only accepts those who keep the Old Covenant perfectly, or who have been justified through faith in Jesus Christ.

“Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

Anonymous Marvin Boggs June 22, 2017 6:00 PM  

Sounds like the writer needs to investigate other local churches.

Blogger SirHamster June 22, 2017 6:03 PM  

DissidentRight wrote:The Muslim ready to behead infidels in the name of Muhammed - he is our enemy.

Yes, and Jesus commanded you to love your enemy.


Tell me something I don't know.


and your persistence shows that your words are not innocent.

Definitely not innocent.


I was talking about making false categorizations. God hates lying lips. Stop.


The robbed man is understood to be a Jew. Jews hated Samaritans. The Samaritan treated the Jew like a neighbor. Jesus commands the lawyer to do like the Samaritan. If the lawyer is supposed to emulate the material action, he would be treating fellow Jews as neighbors. If he supposed to emulate the logic, he would be treating half-breed apostates as neighbors.

The robbed man could have been a Jew - but it was not said. Even if the robbed man was a Samaritan, or neither Jew nor Samaritan, his neighbor was the one who showed mercy.

Taking a specific scenario where a robbed man near death is shown mercy, and making it about general racial blindness is a category error.

The lawyer was not told to be like the robber, or the priest, or the levite. Neither was he told to consider those his neighbors.

Anonymous DissidentRight June 22, 2017 6:06 PM  

Elder Son wrote:The Muslim ready to behead infidels in the name of Muhammed - he is our enemy.
Yes, and Jesus commanded you to love your enemy.
@133 Says: No! Wait! Don't chop off my children and wife's head! I'll wash your feet! Slap me a million times! I'll love you every which and Sunday! Just don't head chop my family!

No, I'm going to blow his head off, deport his family, level their false temples, sink the boats, etc.

Some may want to call it just war, or call it sinning boldly, or the lesser evil. Does it matter?

We don't need theological justifications for State policy. Category error.

Blogger Elder Son June 22, 2017 6:21 PM  

@142 But, Jesus commanded you to love your enemy.

Jesus didn't admonish Peter for cutting off Malchus ear, because love your enemy. Jesus admonished Peter because, "...shall I not drink the cup that the Father has given me?"

The same Jesus that said: "But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.

Anonymous Marvin Boggs June 22, 2017 6:22 PM  

@93: Hey, VD, thanks for that post. I was planning something similar. I think a lot of us, and I include myself, tend to overthink things

One thing I like about this parable is that the person in need was very clearly (to his benefactor) in need. Very often we hear calls to help a very nebulous group of "those in need" by some what dubious agencies that want to help. I'm still not very street-smart, but I'm getting smarter.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash @SnidelyWhiplash on gab.ai. Speak freely. June 22, 2017 6:41 PM  

"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, offer your neighbor's wealth to them that hate you, and your children for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you." --Judeo Christ

Seriously, people who don't understand the Christian concept of love should not even think about interpreting this verse.
Amor est in tres partes divide.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash @SnidelyWhiplash on gab.ai. Speak freely. June 22, 2017 6:46 PM  

DissidentRight wrote:Judeo Christ said to him, “If you want to look virtuous, go, tax your neighbor until he is poor, give it to strangers his enemies, and when he is killed by the foreigners and enemies you brought, you will have very fgood feelings about yoruself, because he deserved it, the Nazi.”

Anonymous DissidentRight June 22, 2017 7:15 PM  

Snidely Whiplash @SnidelyWhiplash on gab.ai. Speak freely. wrote:"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, offer your neighbor's wealth to them that hate you, and your children for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you." --Judeo Christ
When Luke 6:27-31 is attributed to Judeo-Christ instead of Jesus Christ, you might have a theological problem.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 22, 2017 7:17 PM  

Judeo-Christs accepts anyone who keeps the Old Covenant half-assed. God only accepts those who keep the Old Covenant perfectly, or who have been justified through faith in Jesus Christ.

No, there's no either-or. Salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ. Old Testament figures were saved by their faith in the Savior yet to come, by the same Sacrifice on the Cross extending backwards through time as well as forwards. There is no second path. Keeping the Commandments and doing good works is how we/they show that faith; they aren't salvific in themselves. And treasures stored up in heaven don't do you much good if you get bounced at the door because you never accepted your Savior.

When Jesus laid out the full program in John 6 and the people murmured, "Whoa, this is hard, who can hear it," and most of them abandoned him, did he say, "Wait, that's only one option," or, "You misunderstood; I didn't mean that's the only way." No, he stood his ground and asked his apostles if they would leave too. He said he was offering The Way, no exceptions, not Another Way. And notice it sounded harder to everyone than the Old Law, not easier.

Judeo-Christians want to believe that Jews have some special back entrance to heaven, so they can get there while refusing to recognize the Savior. That was one of the purposes of Vatican II, to overturn 19 centuries of Church teaching on that point. But that's not what Jesus taught, what Paul and the Apostles taught, or what Christians believed up to recently. Jews have to get there the same way everyone else does.

Anonymous Didas Kalos June 22, 2017 8:01 PM  

36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? Was.

Anonymous DissidentRight June 22, 2017 8:29 PM  

Cail Corishev wrote:Judeo-Christs accepts anyone who keeps the Old Covenant half-assed. God only accepts those who keep the Old Covenant perfectly, or who have been justified through faith in Jesus Christ.Jews have to get there the same way everyone else does.
Part of my agreement with the essence of everything you wrote entails accepting that a theoretical person who is without sin has no need of Christ's righteousness...

Anonymous Simplytimothy June 22, 2017 8:29 PM  

Remember how these guys railed against The New World Order as the work of The Beast?
Now they are arguing for it.


#ChurchOfTheNewWorldOrder dramatically reframes their position onto their own eschatology.



Anonymous Mr. Rational June 22, 2017 10:19 PM  

Americans give more to foreign charitable aid efforts worldwide than any other country, yet we have people suffering materially and spiritually in our own country.
This has two sides:

1.  Massive support given to NAMs, who still manage to support the "Cadillac-driving welfare queen" stereotype.
2.  Utter contempt given to Whites and especially White males, who have literally crawled off into the woods to die in a northern winter because there was no help available to them.

That story appears to have been purged from the web site of the newspaper I read it on; I cannot find it now.  Even the memory of those two men is being killed.  Meanwhile, people I corresponded with were all a-twitter about their efforts to "help" in Haiti.  Telescopic philanthropy at its worst.

My resources are very limited.  I have to pick my battles.  I could have given only a bare minimum of help to the brothers who starved in the woods.  Habitat for Humanity, who just built 10 units of zero-net energy housing in the home city of the paper, would not have helped them.

Three evenings ago, I heard from someone I know that he doesn't know if he'll have a roof over his head after his unemployment insurance runs out.  There is nothing I can do for him.  Meanwhile, rapefugees come to this country not even able to speak the language and get everything taken care of.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 22, 2017 10:22 PM  

DissidentRight wrote:When Luke 6:27-31 is attributed to Judeo-Christ instead of Jesus Christ, you might have a theological problem.
When you can't read, the world is a constant surprise.

Anonymous Mr. Rational June 22, 2017 10:48 PM  

VFM #6306 wrote:Your neighbor is neither your pastor nor your kinsman nor a foreigner.

Your neighbor is the man who has shown care for you in the past.

So the medically retired cop who lived in the duplex next to me, who I let plug an extension cord into my outdoor outlet after his home state seized his retirement checks for lack of registration payments for a car that was long gone from there and he couldn't afford electricity... I was his neighbor.

He wasn't in good shape when I lost that contract and bugged out of that state, despite being younger than I am now.  I looked up his name recently.  He appears to still be alive.  I wonder where and how he is.

Anonymous DissidentRight June 22, 2017 10:53 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:DissidentRight wrote:When Luke 6:27-31 is attributed to Judeo-Christ instead of Jesus Christ, you might have a theological problem.

When you can't read, the world is a constant surprise.

Fair enough, Luke 6:27-28a, then.

Anonymous Mr. Rational June 22, 2017 11:09 PM  

Rabbi B wrote:The Word of G-d and a commitment to conform our thinking, behavior, and lives to what G-d says, rather than conforming G-d's Word to what we deem to be right in our own eyes.
This ignores the Quintessential Question:  is the universe His doing, and if so, is the evidence left therein any guide to the un-answered questions of scripture?

If the evidence left behind is deceptive, then the Creator is a pathological liar and we're all doomed.

Otherwise, if scripture is unequivocally wrong about questions of the universe, then it comes from a lesser or false god rather than an all-creator and it must be rejected.

If an interpretation of scripture is wrong about the universe, then anyone following that interpretation is in error at the very least.

If the corrections of interpretations of scripture are coming from people who have nothing to do with religion, what is the value of the Bible versus Buddhist or Hindu texts which also carry deep wisdom about human nature?  Those truths were always available to everyone with eyes to see and minds to think.  (Islam is the invention of a murderous pedophilic thief, and has no value.  Period.)

And that's about where I've been for the last 4 decades.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 22, 2017 11:13 PM  

You really are a moron.

Blogger Were-Puppy June 22, 2017 11:58 PM  

A sad sight. I drove by the church I was baptised in and now they have a sign says a multicultural and international church. No point in even bothering. I wonder how long it has been converged?

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable June 23, 2017 1:38 AM  

@156. When you start a comment to the Rabbi with "This ignores ..." you've either not been here very long, or you're thick as two planks. Go back and ****ing read what the man wrote.

Blogger Rabbi B June 23, 2017 9:15 AM  

@156 Mr. Rational

This ignores the Quintessential Question: is the universe His doing, and if so, is the evidence left therein any guide to the un-answered questions of scripture?

You call yourself Mr. Rational, which is good, because men should achieve recognition of G-d through the use of thwir own rational, reasoning intellect. In fact, whenever the Scriptures ask man to recognize G-d, the appeal is not to man's faith as much as it is an appeal to man's reason. Men need only make a proper use of their faculty of reason with a mind that is also free from emotional bias, which I believe will go a long way in helping men find G-d with certainty. And if a man's faculty of reasoning has not been completely subjugated by his sensuality, then there is still a chance that such a man will still find his way to G-d.

Men deny G-d (and the veracity of His Word) not just because He cannot be perceived by the senses of sight and touch, nor because "the evidence left behind is deceptive, [and] the Creator is a pathological liar," nor on account of the dubious interpretations of Scriptures, but simply because G-d can only be detected by reasoning and reason is no longer able to find G-d because, let's admit it, our reason makes no real effort to find Him.

Why not? Simple. The human mind is not all that anxious to find G-d because the very existence of a Supreme Being is quite inconvenient to men's desires and propensities, as your comment clearly demonstrates.

The study of the heavens and the earth, which provides ample evidence for the existence of a Creator, is not sufficient to answer the question of why men should praise or recognize Him as their Master, nor will it answer the question of what man should do with his freedom of will and action in the service of G-d. It is only the Word of G-d handed down to Israel and all of mankind which is in accord with man's nature and which is capable of shaping a man's life in conformity with the will of the One Who created him that will answer these questions.

Mr. Rational, my hope is that you will use that reasoning faculty with which you have been endowed to make a real effort to seek the truth, the truth which has the power to set you free. I think if you were to do so, you would discover that the Bible is not one version among many to choose from when trying to understand this world and what is required of you as long as you are in this world. And you may also be assured of G-d's assistance in your honest endeavor to understand, for what could possibly be deceptive about a G-d asking you to seek Him and the truth which is in your best and highest interests?

I sincerely hope that you can subjugate your sensuality long enough and make a proper use of your faculty of reason with which you have been so graciously endowed. If so, then you really will be Mr. Rational.

Cheers.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus June 23, 2017 9:59 AM  

@126

The priest and Levite failed to behave as neighbors, for which Jesus implicitly condemns them. They SHOULD have behaved as neighbors.

Why is why they *weren't* neighbours. Get it?

Jesus implicitly commanded the lawyer to treat Samaritans as neighbors.

No, Jesus implicit said that the Samaritan *acted* as a neighbour. Again, the word relates to actions in the connotative sense, not to *being.* The Samaritan wasn't a neighbour because Jesus was telling us that the whole world and everyone in it is one big happy family of neighbours. The Samaritan was a neighbour because he was acting the faithful Jew more than the Jews who *should have been doing so* were doing.

The Parable of the Good Samaritan has no implications for government policy.

Which is fine because I didn't *say* anything about government policy. I discussed what black and brown Christians themselves would do - as neighbours - if they wanted to obey the Word of God *as neighbours* to other Christians.

It has implications for what you have to do to be saved outside of Christ.

Since there is no possibility of salvation outside of Jesus Christ, this statement is a nonsense assertion on its face.

Anonymous Pennywise June 23, 2017 12:20 PM  

"Love your neighbor as yourself" - who IS your neighbor? Are you certain of just who Jesus defines to be our "neighbor"? If everyone is my neighbor, than no one is my neighbor, in the same way that loyalty to everyone is loyalty to no one."

If everyone is your neighbor, they are your neighbor. The early churches addressed one another as their neighbors. Paul clearly stated that one is to do good especially to other believers (Gal 6:10 ), and he urges his congregations to be neighborly to all people via Christian fellowship (Rom 13:8-10 ; Cor 10:24 ; Eph 4:25).

"To say that we have more unity with an Ethiopian christian, than say, a biological/ethnic kinsman who is an unbeliever is certainly true in the spiritual sense. But it stretches credulity when taken to its absolute logical conclusion in an earthly practical sense."

The spiritual sense is manifested by the earthly practice sense. A Christian is a Christian regardless of their race or ethnicity, and we are bound to show our unity through Him.

Anonymous Pennywise June 23, 2017 12:25 PM  

Rabbi B...

"Men deny G-d (and the veracity of His Word) not just because He cannot be perceived by the senses of sight and touch, nor because "the evidence left behind is deceptive, [and] the Creator is a pathological liar," nor on account of the dubious interpretations of Scriptures, but simply because G-d can only be detected by reasoning and reason is no longer able to find G-d because, let's admit it, our reason makes no real effort to find Him."

How does one rectify your position to our "neighbors" on the Alt Right like the Roosh's of the world who generally seek earthly pleasures? Is there not a duty to employ reason to dissuade him from pursuing a lifestyle that God clearly disdains?

Blogger Rabbi B June 23, 2017 1:27 PM  

@163 Pennywise

How does one rectify your position to our "neighbors" on the Alt Right like the Roosh's of the world who generally seek earthly pleasures?

Recognizing that the Roosh's and Milo's of the world can be vessels for transmitting general truth(s) does not imply our tacit approval of their lifestyles for which they will have to answer for someday.

If G-d is able to restrain the madness of the prophet Balaam through an ass, surely there are any number of other mouthpieces at His disposal.

Is there not a duty to employ reason to dissuade him from pursuing a lifestyle that God clearly disdains?.

We certainly need to discharge our duty to live lives that are faithful to and in conformity with all that has been revealed to us in His Word and trust that our example will contribute, even if only in some small way, to helping others come to a saving knowledge of the truth.

But I believe that it is ultimately G-d Who not only persuades men to walk in His ways, but Who has also given man the means and every opportunity to do so:

Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.

See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. For I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess. (cf. Deut. 30)

And:

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools...Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts... Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. (cf. Romans 1)

The Roosh's of this world, like all of us, will have to give an account for what we did with the life we were given, and be judged accordingly. And though we may have done many noble and incredible things in this life, even in His name, the real question will be whether we hear the words "Well done good and faithful servant." or "Away from me you worker of lawlessness, I know you not."

I know what I want to hear and I sincerely hope that the Roosh's of the world will bow the knee sooner rather than later. There will simply be no excuse for anyone who suppressed the truth of G-d's revelation of Himself to His creation. None.

Anonymous DissidentRight June 23, 2017 1:44 PM  

@161
Since there is no possibility of salvation outside of Jesus Christ, this statement is a nonsense assertion on its face.

A sinless person (a person who has kept the Law) has no need of Christ, and that issue is the impetus of the parable. The lawyer, seeking to JUSTIFY himself, asked, “And who is my neighbor?” He was trying to JUSTIFY himself under the LAW. (It is doubtful if he treated Samaritans as neighbors, which probably has something to do with why Jesus used a Samaritan as an example.)

The entire point of the parable is to circumvent an argument with the lawyer over whether aliens or enemies are neighbors, and allow Jesus to demonstrate that the lawyer is NOT justified under the law.

Rather than directly answer the question, Jesus confirms that the Samaritan treated the robbed man as a neighbor, while the two Jews did not, and commands the lawyer to do like the Samaritan.

Who is your neighbor? Those whom you treat as neighbors. And who should you treat as neighbors? People who hate you.

If your plan is to JUSTIFY yourself, this is essential information.

Anonymous Charlie Baud June 23, 2017 10:56 PM  

DissidentRight wrote:A sinless person (a person who has kept the Law) has no need of Christ,

What part of "No Salvation outside the Church" do you find so difficult to grasp?

Anonymous Charlie Baud June 23, 2017 10:58 PM  

@165

Ignoring the fact that there are no sinless people, the only reason a "Baptism of Desire" may work is because of the Atonement of Christ, so to say that this hypothetical person "has no need of Christ" is disingenous.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 23, 2017 11:47 PM  

A sinless person (a person who has kept the Law) has no need of Christ,

A sinless person is Christ

Anonymous Pennywise June 24, 2017 12:27 AM  

Rabbi B...

"Recognizing that the Roosh's and Milo's of the world can be vessels for transmitting general truth(s)..."

But at what overall price to His neighbors, specifically the Christian men who take their advice to pillage and plunder nubile women rather than affording the opportunity to lend the guiding hand toward marriage and children?

More importantly, what Christian truths are they transmitting for their audience?

"does not imply our tacit approval of their lifestyles for which they will have to answer for someday."

Answer someday? They haven't made any consistent effort to repent.
Will they seek the Lord's favor? Have any attempts been made to publicly shame them? That would the neighborly thing to do.

"If G-d is able to restrain the madness of the prophet Balaam through an ass, surely there are any number of other mouthpieces at His disposal."

Right. The fox is good to kill the rabbits, but in the process the chickens who lay the eggs are also murdered.

"We certainly need to discharge our duty to live lives that are faithful to and in conformity with all that has been revealed to us in His Word and trust that our example will contribute, even if only in some small way, to helping others come to a saving knowledge of the truth."

We live the righteous life, but our neighbors sully our reputation in the end. How is this behavior getting us closer to Him?

"But I believe that it is ultimately G-d Who not only persuades men to walk in His ways, but Who has also given man the means and every opportunity to do so:"

Listening to God and fully embracing His message mandates one's heart is fully committed to hearing Him speak.

Anonymous DissidentRight June 24, 2017 12:42 AM  

@167 Ignoring the fact that there are no sinless people

@168 A sinless person is Christ

Obviously. Do you get that the lawyer to whom Jesus addressed the parable 1) didn’t recognize this, and 2) that he came to this conclusion (in part) by defining “my neighbor” too narrowly, and 3) that literally the entire point of the parable is to disabuse him of this notion?

Anonymous Mr. Rational June 29, 2017 10:36 PM  

@160  I have passed on this too many times, shaking my head in my inability to dig deep enough to find the error in your logic.

I'm still not there, but I think I have the germ of it:  you're demanding that I find the error in the logic of the modern view of the world, when it is the ancient Biblical view which has to either justify its differences or abandon them.  One cannot reliably reason to a correct conclusion from erroneous assertions of fact.  That's just a given.  The problem is that there are heaps of Biblical phrases stretched to cover scientific discoveries not derived a priori from the text (e.g. the "spread out like a tent" phrases that we've been over before), and you won't assume the onus.

I didn't buy it then and I'm not buying it now.  I'm especially not buying a lecturing tone when such arrogance is obvious posturing in the absence of actual merit.

Maybe you can explain to me why the two different creation sequences in Genesis can both be correct—and how the omission of microorganisms doesn't invalidate both of them.  Maybe you can explain to me how a universe that was totally dark for hundreds of thousands or millions of years between the formation of molecular hydrogen to the formation of the first stars is consistent with dividing the light, or whatever.  But after your bullying tone, you've not given me any cause to lend you more of my time.  I have much more rewarding things to do.

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