Tuesday, June 13, 2017

Molyneux. Day. Dostoevsky.

Stefan finally got around to posting the long-awaited discussion of Crime and Punishment we recorded about a month ago. Enjoy, if you are of a literary bent.

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Blogger Happy LP9 June 13, 2017 6:59 PM  

Listening now, Gabbed link, awesome radio, superior content.

Anonymous Anonymous June 13, 2017 7:03 PM  


Rather, a wonderful literary discussion.

Blogger Tzufloyguner June 13, 2017 7:20 PM  

Has Vox ever done a breakdown of his socio-sexual hierarchy in audio or video? That seems like a great topic to discuss with Stefan.

Blogger tublecane June 13, 2017 7:26 PM  

Coupla things about Crime and Punishment. I was so wrapped up in Raskolnikov when I first read the book, I think, that it caused me to completely miss the significance of Svidrigailov. I didn't even remember that character after I closed the book. Now I think he's my favorite. Watch that sorry wretch.

Also, the idea I had going into the book, which I absorbed from the culture, was that it would be about a Nietzschean criminal who kills someone (or someones), goes a little nuts, and is compelled to confess by the love of a hooker with a heart if gold. Then he goes to a prison camp to carry out his sentence and redeem himself, or whatever. But that's not the feeling I get when I read the denouement. More like Raskolnikov resents the fact that he almost got away with it but was tripped up by little mistakes. I don't get the feeling he's having a Christian awakening or anything.

By the way, Crime and Punishment is probably my second-favorite Dostoyevsky. Though I do like Brothers Karamazov, the Possessed is tops for me.

Blogger Nate June 13, 2017 7:41 PM  

"its one thing to decide to accept in theory the stepping over of morality. its another thing to actually do it."


The Veil of Civilization. Its easy to talk about things that lay beyond the veil. Doing them however is pretty much impossible for virtually everyone.

Blogger Nate June 13, 2017 7:42 PM  

That is why it is so horribly toxic to import lots of savages who have no veil at all.. and for whom things like stabbing a healthcare worker 50 times are not only possible... they are normal.

Anonymous Ugly Mind Babies June 13, 2017 7:46 PM  

Sweet. This will make for great listening at work.

Anonymous kHz June 13, 2017 8:14 PM  

Has it been only a month of waiting?

Stef should do this every time. I'd live longer.

Blogger BlowMe June 13, 2017 8:15 PM  

Yes, at long last!!

Thank you Vox and Stefan!

Anonymous Anonymous June 13, 2017 8:36 PM  

A thought provoking discussion. I enjoyed it very much.

I drew connections between some of the ideas put forward in this video and your earlier post about John C. Wright's travails with his son's scout master. There must be a Dostoevskyan short story in there somewhere revolving around the Raskolnikov-like scout master who ousts someone from his troop.

It's probably time I re-read Crime and Punishment.

Anonymous Anonymous June 13, 2017 8:37 PM is a Likud, Zionist outfit, they delete any messages to this effect.

Blogger Vikki Wilson June 13, 2017 8:42 PM  

As a child I also witnessed an appalling scene of horse beating by a violent drunk, so the that dream sequence perhaps affected me more than most!.

I saw the setting of an impossible task that the victim can only fail (interesting) rationalising the cruelty as an instance of Reason used to corrupt human pity.

I had not thought of the dream of the horse as a more abstract argument against private property in principle - this is such an interesting perspective!

Thanks so much for this discussion guys.
To continue an earlier comment(praising Vox's last periscope on reading great writing on war) could I say that pursuing these wider cultural interests expands the dimensions of New Right intellectual life, it humanises and deepens the quality and reach of the movement itself.
Loveyawork here. More please.

What do you think of Angelo Codevilla on war?

Anonymous Tipsy June 13, 2017 8:46 PM  

Henri du Lubac has an excellent section on Dostoevsky in his seminal book "The Drama of Atheist Humanism", whom he considers to be an antidote to secularist gnosticism of the 19th and 20th century.

Blogger Ezekiel June 13, 2017 9:04 PM  

I was probably too young when I first read C&P. The thing that most struck me was his dream of a Plague of Nihilism, because I always saw that as the perfect example of Zombie Apocalypse done right.

Nate wrote:That is why it is so horribly toxic to import lots of savages who have no veil at all.. and for whom things like stabbing a healthcare worker 50 times are not only possible... they are normal.
See RA Heinlein's warning to the youth concerning their disregard of social decorum. That kind seemingly superfluous stuff is part of what keeps us acting civilized and not stabbing aid workers to death.

Blogger Student in Blue June 13, 2017 9:53 PM  

The topic 3 minutes in immediately reminded me of this picture.

Blogger Vikki Wilson June 13, 2017 10:24 PM  

Student in Blue wrote:The topic 3 minutes in immediately reminded me of this picture.

"Student in Blue" (you must be depressed)
are you sure study is the right gig for you?

Best wishes, Bluestocking.

Blogger Student in Blue June 13, 2017 10:47 PM  

Well, my English teacher sure said I needed more study.

Blogger Purpleslog June 13, 2017 11:41 PM  

Who are the two famous Marine's that were mentioned as relatives?

Blogger Purpleslog June 13, 2017 11:42 PM  


Blogger Lazarus June 13, 2017 11:45 PM  

Crime and Punishment Published in 1866. Dream of horse being beaten is horrific. Raskalnikov is horrified.

1889, Nietzche goes nuts while trying to protect a horse being beaten and is put away til he dies.

Coincidence? I think not.

Blogger Phillip George June 14, 2017 1:29 AM  

Vox, the only thing we know about the London Fire is that it seems to be an accident and not terror related.
The only other thing we know is that if it were terror related the motives are unclear and that it was a lone wolf who self radicalized without any religious affiliations, except that the root cause if a normal response to Islamophobia.

Obviously the solution to random events without motives is to crack down on the Internet.

And this gives us an opportunity to show defiance, unity and to keep on doing what we always do as a show of defiance.

Vigils and photo-ops and hero awards are currently in the planning stages

Blogger Phillip George June 14, 2017 1:33 AM  

More importantly; is Happy Birthday to Donald Trump.....

CNN are linking his birthday to Russian Involvement and Mueller is promising to take the allegations seriously. It's Breaking stuff

Anonymous hulababar June 14, 2017 2:19 AM  

Seems like a Ramadan midnight cooking fire just incinerated a London tower flat. People treated for smoke inhalation at the scene.

Anonymous Magus June 14, 2017 4:25 AM  

Finally! Been waiting for this one. I enjoy Stefan's show anyway, but you two together is dynamite.

Don't forget guys, you can donate here:

Even just a couple bucks/quid/BTC/dogecoin helps, and keeps stuff like this alive!

Blogger paul b. June 14, 2017 6:35 AM  

The Orthodox Nationalist's older analysis of Dosto is very much worth it.
Few authors were as utterly misunderstood and butchered by the western academia.

Anonymous Walter Oleg June 14, 2017 8:20 AM  

I'm a Christian of the doubting miracles or afterlife (99% sure on the no afterlife but do leave room for simulation theory) variety and credit Dostoevsky as being a big part of why this is (along with Jordan Peterson as of late). I'm also a White Nationalist but believe Christianity is important to keep us from acting too materialistically.

For example, if the Nordic aliens (or perhaps a certain folk really did make it to Antarctica after WWII; see Operation High Jump) show up one day and order White people to kill all non-Whites as a great sacrifice before the beginning of our role in their intergalactic civilization; I would refuse to take part and be public in my refusal.

I can understand the attraction to Nietzschean "Will To Power" but feel in my gut that it's a dangerous road to go down. One of the reasons I feel this is because my appreciation of Nietzsche tends to depend on my mood. The more frustrated I become with the world, the more Nietzschean I am. The more hopeful I am, the more Dostoevskyian I am. However, when in the depths of despair I also revert back to Christ (and therefore Dostoevsky).My Nietzschean side comes out when feeling strong or feeling pissed. So I figure it's better to side with my more hopeful side overall but also remember when things get bad that I also try to find hope in something non-material (Christ).

I also consider the life of both authors. Dostoevsky experienced much more hardship in life and remained sane. Nietzsche ended up being hospitalized after seeing a horse being beaten.

But the bottom line is I'm too weak to be Nietschean. When I was in Iraq and thought I was going to die, or was going through some physically painful experience, or other hardship related to family life, I ALWAYS ended up praying to Jesus.

When I have no more "Will to Power" in myself, I have to depend on something outside myself. Even knowing I'm pretty sure nothing can hear my prayers besides my subconscious mind.

Blogger Billy Boy June 14, 2017 11:29 AM  

At the 40 minute mark you mention a potential argument against the ubermensch idea, that if the ubermensch can deny moral social constructs, than this implies he can deny social constructs of any kind - i.e. that 2 is 37.

The issue I see with this argument is that fundamentally, the "superman/ubermensch" doesn't necessarily deny all social constructs, only specifically those with a prescriptive bent, such as moral claims.

secondly, not all social constructs are the same in terms of justification and usage. A refutation or disbelief in one social construct does not imply a refutation or disbelief in another.

Thirdly, "2 is 37" doesn't involve social constructions in the same way that moral claims do. The integers are abstractions that relate directly to physical objects, the same way the term "grass" relates to the greenery you see on your front lawn. However, moral imperatives do not relate directly to physical objects or any kind of physical reality -- a lot of assumptions must be made, for example, in order to be fully convicted of utilitarianism, or deontology or teleology.

Fourthly, a "social construct" such as the integers, can with proper proof and reasoning cease to become "social constructs" to the individual, assuming the individual puts in the time and effort to discover for himself that the integers exist not because society or culture says so (which is what would make it a social construct in the first place) but because of the inherent existence of units in nature.

I could probably delve deeper into this lol but i'm too lazy. The above's all i have for now

Blogger WhatsThePitch June 14, 2017 11:43 AM  

I really enjoy the high level conversations between Stefan and VD, hope to see more discussions of literature in the future because the only other videos I have found on literature are from universities and leftists, so I perceive a gap. That is, unless someone can point me to some blogger or youtuber who is bridging this gap already.

Blogger Sam Spade June 14, 2017 12:20 PM  

Outstanding chat as always.

I foresee Stefan in the future as a based priest of real Christianity. I feel he is almost there.

Blogger tublecane June 14, 2017 3:15 PM  

@27-Nietzsche goes beyond social construct denial. He's a full-on truth denier. The argument in the Genealogy of Morals runs directly from the strong don't have to follow the petty rules of the weak to there's no such thing as 2+2=4.

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Anonymous Anonymous June 14, 2017 8:19 PM  

Genxers just have to philosophize.

The little rascal is a neet, not unlike myself and a number of my friends. He does disgusting neet things, and even worse things than most neets. I read this book when I had a fever and got better halfway through, so in my mind he gets away with it. I was egging him on in my mind.

I envy him in that he had an arrangement for free housing when my rent was just raised 30% this year.

The real proletariat doesn't signal about commujism. The rascal wasn't signaling either. He was trying to live in the way he believed he should just like everyone else in that forsaken city.

If you want to philosophize about solutions to the social problems in the book, slavery for people who can't live on their own would work.

The great American vidya is Bioshock Infinite. In it a city more beautiful and lovingly crafted than any that actually existed in real America even back when America was great is destroyed by a drunken gambler who sold his own daughter and a rabble of commie terrorists. You play as the rampaging drunkard.

Anonymous Azimus June 14, 2017 11:12 PM  

Listened to this tonight walking in the wake of a thunderstorm - very cool, existential stuff. If two right-thinking geniuses can create this quality of thought, imagine was 50-60 together in one room could come up with - The Constitution? Magna Carta?

Blogger JP June 15, 2017 12:46 AM  

I've got to read this book now! Listening to this podcast, it's apparent how badly public schooling has failed. These books used to be read by nearly everyone, and now it's mostly just eccentrics and a few English majors (who are rapidly dropping them for books written by their pet minorities).

I was in AP English and read constantly, yet I was rarely exposed to the true classics. Other than modernist garbage, a little Shakespeare and the Iliad/Odyssey was all I really got out of the actual coursework, and most of it no one was required to actually read in full. Searching for myself, I missed most of the classics and ended up with Clancy and Chrichton and some sci-fi. And the only way to not fall asleep in class was to read under my desk, so I had lots of time to read.

So if I'm one of the best-read men to come out of my high school class, and I largely missed the great minds of Western thought, no wonder our society is rapidly flushing down the toilet! Even with bright kids, if you starve them of any intellectual substance for too long, they'll start to think that rap lyrics are the work of poetic genius, and formulaic superhero movies are great storytelling. They can't raise the performance of the untermensch, but they can lobotomize everyone else through sheer boredom and repetition.

Anonymous Crew June 15, 2017 9:33 PM  

I guess the real question is:

Is Chinese Universalism the same as British Universalism the same as American Universalism the same as American Universalism?

Blogger Lazarus June 16, 2017 8:27 PM  

Crew wrote:I guess the real question is:

Is Chinese Universalism the same as British Universalism the same as American Universalism the same as American Universalism?

Yes, and No.

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