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Thursday, July 13, 2017

The Proposition Left

And the white Left is gradually beginning to realize that they have made a fatal blunder in declaring the white Christian West their enemy, as there is no place for them in the various tribes of the global South and East:
It’s anyone’s guess whether the latest round of Russia revelations will flame out or bring the administration toppling to the ground. But either way, the drama is only one act in an ongoing cycle of outrages involving Trump and Russia that will, one way or another, come to an end. That is not true of the controversy over the President’s remarks in Warsaw last week, which exposed a crucial contest over ideas that will continue to influence our politics until long after this administration has left office. And the responses from Trump’s liberal critics were revealing — and dangerous.

The speech — a call to arms for a Western civilization ostensibly menaced by decadence and bloat from within and hostile powers from without — was received across the center-left as a thinly veiled apologia for white nationalism. “Trump did everything but cite Pepe the Frog,” tweeted the Atlantic’s Peter Beinart. “Trump’s speech in Poland sounded like an alt-right manifesto,” read a Vox headline. According the New Republic’s Jeet Heer, Trump’s “alt-right speech” “redefined the West in nativist terms.”

Thus, the intelligentsia is now flirting with an intellectually indefensible linguistic coup: Characterizing any appeal to the coherence or distinctiveness of Western civilization as evidence of white nationalist sympathies. Such a shift, if accepted, would so expand the scope of the term “alt-right” that it would lose its meaning. Its genuinely ugly ideas would continue to fester, but we would lose the rhetorical tools to identify and repudiate them as distinct from legitimate admiration for the Western tradition. To use a favorite term of the resistance, the alt-right would become normalized....

What is at stake now is whether Americans will surrender the idea of “the West” to liberalism’s enemies on the alt-right — that is, whether we will allow people who deny the equal citizenship of women and minorities and Jews to lay claim to the legacy of Western civilization. This would amount to a major and potentially suicidal concession, because the alt-right — not in the opportunistically watered-down sense of “immigration skeptic,” or “social conservative,” but in the sense of genuine white male political supremacism — is anti-Western. It is hostile to the once-radical ideals of pluralism and self-governance and individual rights that were developed during the Western Enlightenment and its offshoots. It represents an attack on, not a defense of, of the West’s greatest achievements.
It's an impressive feat of intellectual gymnastics that the author is attempting. He's essentially doing the equivalent of declaring that Democrats are the real racists: the Alt-Right are the real enemies of the West. But that is not true. Indeed, the Alt-Right are the only defenders of the West.

It's become fairly common for conservatives andthe  Alt-Lite like to play rhetorical games and try to claim that the Alt-Right is really the SJW Left because word salad. But notice how similar this Left-wing argument is to the arguments of the conservative Proposition Nationalists and the Alt-Lite civic nationalists addressing the Alt-Right.

This is why I keep pointing out that the Alt-Right is inevitable. You can play all the word games you like. You can cherry-pick whatever historical documents you like. You can invent whatever contorted and ahistorical definitions you like. You can quote at length from the red-letter edition of the True Sayings of Judeo-Christ. But in the end, so long as you continue to deny that a nation is a group of people related by blood, language, and tradition, and deny that the West is a civilization constructed by, of, and for European Christians, you will end up precisely where the Left is, because a first step into falsehood is always followed by a second, and a third, as your perspective increasingly comes into conflict with observable events.

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228 Comments:

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Blogger BlowMe July 13, 2017 1:39 PM  

The gradual but inexorable shift of the Overton Window before our eyes...

Blogger Dirtnapninja July 13, 2017 1:40 PM  

Fools.

Abolishing the idea of the 'west' has always been on the agenda. Soon talking about the 'west' will get you branded as a fascist. But the article is correct. Once you erase the line between radicals and normies, the normies become radical and the radicals become the norm.

But the stupid white left has pedestalised blacks and minorities so much they are unable to stand against them in any way. They are forced to agree or shut up no matter how stupid the POC left sounds. So the only authentic source of any defense of the 'west' will be us..the radicals on the right.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer July 13, 2017 1:44 PM  

na·tion
ˈnāSH(ə)n/Submit
noun
a large aggregate of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory.

Blogger slarrow July 13, 2017 1:47 PM  

Alt-West FTW.

Blogger SDaly July 13, 2017 1:48 PM  

(((Jason Willick))) writing in (((The American Interest))).

Anonymous The Smoking Man July 13, 2017 1:49 PM  

There will be a large number of left whites who will be denied sanctuary. They cannot be allowed within our gates once our parallel civilization is up and running.

Blogger Wanderer July 13, 2017 1:49 PM  

The Enlightenment is not the "greatest achievement" of the west. The Enlightenment was the beginning of the end of the west.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd July 13, 2017 1:54 PM  

``What is at stake now is whether Americans will surrender the idea of “the West” to liberalism’s enemies on the alt-right ...''

The Alt-Right is the enemy of liberalism because liberalism is the enemy of the West, the enemy of God, the enemy of civilization.

Blogger praetorian July 13, 2017 1:57 PM  

whether we will allow people who deny the equal citizenship of women and minorities and Jews

Well that's a funny list...

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd July 13, 2017 2:00 PM  

praetorian wrote:whether we will allow people who deny the equal citizenship of women and minorities and Jews

Well that's a funny list...


Since they are listed separately, I gather that Jews are not a minority?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 13, 2017 2:11 PM  

Ominous Cowherd wrote:Since they are listed separately, I gather that Jews are not a minority?
Gamma secret king is special. And Minority means Black.

Blogger Kristophr July 13, 2017 2:12 PM  

praetorian wrote:whether we will allow people who deny the equal citizenship of women and minorities and Jews

Well that's a funny list...


Just an attempt to paint the Alt-Right as NAZIs. The usual.

Anonymous Linky July 13, 2017 2:12 PM  

O/T Interesting article by someone who helps refugees

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/ive-worked-refugees-decades-europes-afghan-crime-wave-mind-21506?page=show

"This brings us to a third, more compelling and quite disturbing theory—the one that my Afghan friend, the court translator, puts forward. On the basis of his hundreds of interactions with these young men in his professional capacity over the past several years, he believes to have discovered that they are motivated by a deep and abiding contempt for Western civilization. To them, Europeans are the enemy, and their women are legitimate spoils, as are all the other things one can take from them: housing, money, passports. Their laws don’t matter, their culture is uninteresting and, ultimately, their civilization is going to fall anyway to the horde of which one is the spearhead. No need to assimilate, or work hard, or try to build a decent life here for yourself—these Europeans are too soft to seriously punish you for a transgression, and their days are numbered."

Anonymous Lew Rockwell July 13, 2017 2:14 PM  

"It's an impressive feat of intellectual gymnastics that the author is attempting."

No its not. Its garden variety gaslighting, and the fundamental purpose and technique of the mainstream media.

Blogger rumpole5 July 13, 2017 2:14 PM  

"the equal citizenship of women and minorities and Jews" No one has ever denied their EQUAL citizenship. The problem is that the Left wants unearned special privileges and unearned guaranteed outcomes for these folks, and also wants us to put up with and ignore the plots of ((people)) - (yes I know, NAJALT, but nevertheless...) who want to deny OUR equal citizenship.

Blogger VD July 13, 2017 2:20 PM  

No one has ever denied their EQUAL citizenship.

USA: You can't be a citizen here, Mr. Jew. You're a citizen of Israel.

JEW: ANTISEMITE! *sob* HOLOCAUST!

USA: Um, no, wait, don't cry, here's your passport.

JEW: Thank you. Please to send $3 billion to Israel, our greatest ally. I love America.

Blogger Cail Corishev July 13, 2017 2:22 PM  

As long as conservatives and Alt-Lite types base their values on the Enlightenment, then they are more Left than Right, so it's no surprise if they use the same arguments. They're working from one of the same foundations.

Blogger Chiva July 13, 2017 2:27 PM  

"What is at stake now is whether Americans will surrender the idea of “the West” to liberalism’s enemies on the alt-right"

I have always been a live and let live kind of person. But when liberals declare that I am their enemy, then naturally I decide that they are MY enemy.

Please liberals, keep ostracizing those who don't agree with you. It will make things easier for all of us.

Anonymous Haywood Sterling July 13, 2017 2:28 PM  

This "the West is the Enlightenment" argument always kills me. For these people, history didn't begin until 1715 (just like "America" didn't begin until 1964). Never mind that a real, flesh and blood people were involved for thousands of years prior. And God forbid if we suggest that the West took a wrong turn at any point.

Blogger tublecane July 13, 2017 2:29 PM  

Who may more legitimately lay claim to the "legacy of Western civilization" is obvious to me. At least the long arch of it. To Western civilization's discredit, it produced communism, modern/postmodern art, and .PC along with all the good stuff. There is a sickness within it, whether that was present from the beginning, was smuggled in with the Enlightenment, or came any number of Current Years ago, I don't know.

The left can lay claim to the sickness, or sicknesses, and in that sense own part of the Western legacy. I want to say that's like owning a tumor on my body as opposed to the whole body. But at this point our civilization as a whole is unwell, and it may be like owning the brain cancer that's killing my body. (Pretending I have cancer.)

Anonymous Lew Rockwell July 13, 2017 2:31 PM  

By the way, something else you guys havent figured out yet...

the "progressive" model of a nation-state is not that of a "proposition" nation, but rather, a corportate nation....that is to say, anyone, anywhere who can "buy shares" in the "company" (ie work in the usa) is a "shareholder" (citizen) with rights.

The reason the USA runs this way is because the progressive/left movement in the usa went corporate in the early nineties, when Bill clinton/ Robert rubin realized that big business and big government not only had the same interests, but the same methods, means, and goals.

For example, more immigrants not only means more government dependents....but it also means more consumers and lower priced labor...which create more profit for corporations and more wages...which creates larger tax revenue...which is why (almost) no one in govt and no one in biz opposed unlimited immigration.

As for why progs don't care about the type of "shareholders" in "usa inc," well, they dont care for the same reason Mark zuckerberg doesn't care about the type of facebook shareholders..."resticted stock" or multiple share classes, ie the belief that progs have some kind of special stake in the usa that obviates all other holdings...

OF course, as Black lives matter, muslim antics in europe and elsewhere, and the reality of international commerce proves, this is unfortunatley(for them) false. THe ultimate fate of Progressives is, at best, to be the "board of directors" of a bankrupt "company" and, at worse, to be "fired" in a "hostile Takeover" by "minority shareholders" once the "dividends" run out.

Sic transit usa,llc

Blogger Desillusionerad July 13, 2017 2:33 PM  

"It is hostile to the once-radical ideals of pluralism and self-governance and individual rights that were developed during the Western Enlightenment and its offshoots. "

Some of these strains of thought are from some places and some are from other places, but the Pluralism one, is pretty squarely from the religious squabbles in Europe.
And in this context 'religious pluralism' doesn't mean what the current left want's it to mean.
It meant that the protestants and the Catholics stopped their infighting.
So as far as religious plurality is concerned, its any kind of christian you like.

Blogger Desdichado July 13, 2017 2:34 PM  

tublecane wrote:Who may more legitimately lay claim to the "legacy of Western civilization" is obvious to me. At least the long arch of it. To Western civilization's discredit, it produced communism, modern/postmodern art, and .PC along with all the good stuff. There is a sickness within it, whether that was present from the beginning, was smuggled in with the Enlightenment, or came any number of Current Years ago, I don't know.

The left can lay claim to the sickness, or sicknesses, and in that sense own part of the Western legacy. I want to say that's like owning a tumor on my body as opposed to the whole body. But at this point our civilization as a whole is unwell, and it may be like owning the brain cancer that's killing my body. (Pretending I have cancer.)

We live in a fallen world, so there's a sickness in every civilization. All will eventually fall, as they succumb to the temptations of the Prince of this world. The only solution for that is spiritual renewal.

Blogger Cail Corishev July 13, 2017 2:35 PM  

women and minorities and Jews

Jews are the minority so nice, you have to mention them twice.

Blogger Desillusionerad July 13, 2017 2:35 PM  

Haywood Sterling wrote:This "the West is the Enlightenment" argument always kills me. For these people, history didn't begin until 1715 (just like "America" didn't begin until 1964). Never mind that a real, flesh and blood people were involved for thousands of years prior. And God forbid if we suggest that the West took a wrong turn at any point.
Yeah, The enligthenment is a singular part of the west, possibly the most important one, but most definitively not the sum of it.

Blogger tz July 13, 2017 2:36 PM  

a nation is a group of people related by blood, language, and tradition, and deny that the West is a civilization constructed by, of, and for European Christians,

Blood - this is what helps patience. You talk to your father or son or even the daft uncle differently than some alien who just can't seem to understand.

Language - Initially Latin, then English from the British Empire. But today we can't insist on even english but the hundreds of languages used in bi-lingual education in schools. Without a common vocabulary, we can't communicate. And even English. Liberal and Conservative have now anachronistic definitions (Libertarian, and Burke and Kirk respectively). We used to have the KJV and read the 8th grade McGuffey's readers.

Then Traditon (culture). In 1700 for over 100 years, everyone could be assumed to have read the KJV from cover to cover and understand all the words and their usage even if English drifted. But it embodied lots of stories forging a common culture. Today I'm lucky if I can think of something in a recent comic book or reboot movie that everyone has seen. Even the 1910 immigrants and their children learned American history, not that of their homelands. And Christendom isn't a proposition, it is Jesus as High King and High Priest.

But the person who wrote the article is wrong.

The Alt-Right values Western Civilization because it is TRUE. Yet racial differences are true, and Europeans produced everything is another fact. Truth will win, though it isn't like a lion that can just be let loose - the lyin' hyenas if there are enough of them can take it down.

But the left can't give up its lies. Who are the happiest women? Mormon Mommybloggers. The least happy? High powered career women trying to have it all.

There was extreme legal, social, and economic pressures in 1960, and black families all but thrived - they were coming up, incomes rising, stable families. When the pressures were racist and removed? Are they better off now that they are going to hell - being damned both eternally and locked into a barbaric microcosm temporally? Some perfectly resonable questions can't be asked.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 13, 2017 2:39 PM  

Desillusionerad wrote:Yeah, The enligthenment is a singular part of the west, possibly the most important one, but most definitively not the sum of it.
Just as the gunshot wound isn't the sum of the mugging victim, but probably the most important part for the surgeon.

Anonymous Lew Rockwell July 13, 2017 2:42 PM  

if white people behaved more like jews, white people wouldn't have these problems.

Im not sure why or how american whites got so into people pleasing...especially to failed countries, cultures, and peoples...it borders on national codependency...hurting ourselves to help others...to make others feel better about themselves...

Thats the ultimate problem i personnally have with progressivism...all the passive aggressive ass kissing...

Blogger tz July 13, 2017 2:42 PM  

@23 - we don't have to fall, but it requires constant doses of a medicine which is the bitter truth. The world as it is, fallen. And properly reacting to it.

This is like saying STDs are inevitable. Only for the non-virgins and non-monagamous. The booms and busts, crashes and panics are inevitable. Only for those who let their society practice Usury.

The Tradition - culture - can prevent the fall, politics and law can't. The law simply becomes tyrannical and fills prisons with sinners instead of true criminals (war on drugs, child support deadbeats). The law at best can only be a final backstop when ostracism and culture fails, not its primary defense.

The danger is always that the law will mutate so instead of defending Holy Matrimony, it ends up enforcing gay marriage.

Anonymous normally a lurker July 13, 2017 2:43 PM  

Oh, for all their contempt of "the West" the progressives consider it their rightful and greatest spoil of war. It's converged instiutions will not only self-obliterate the core of what the West was (it's people, customs, traditions, Christendom) but will serve as a means to obliterate everything else. This is after all, the thinking behind the attempt to funnel as many non-European through the University system as possible.

This is why they are so incensed about Trump, the Alt-Right and everybody else who doesn't simply lay down and accept their claim of ownership over the West.

Blogger g wood July 13, 2017 2:43 PM  

Women and minorities and Jews, Oh My!

Blogger tublecane July 13, 2017 2:47 PM  

@7-The Enlightenment slides by on an awful lot of fraud and misunderstanding. Which is easy when you control the way almost everyone thinks. (The primary intellectual traditions with pre-enlightenment being various religions, which are largely enlightened themselves, if not totally pozzed. Maybe there are mystery cults which preserve ancient knowledge, I don't know.) I was just reading an essay by David Stove. Can't remember the title, but the point was about the "greatest happiness of the greatest number" measure, and how the Enlightenment basically did nothing on that count for its first couple of centuries.

Even if you credit it for the scientific and industrial revolutions, and I don't know if that's just, we didn't get our great leap forward in standard of living until the electric and internal combustion engine revolutions around the turn of the 20th century. Industry in the 18th and 19th century made more stuff, surely, but it also produced more people, most of them in poor condition. Which is a reason why Malthus, for instance, was popular around that time as an anti-Enlightenment thinker.

When electricity and oil suddenly made industry that much more productive, the Enlightenment was there to take advantage. But people forget the 200-year gap, which traded mean old preachers for doubt, kings for revolutions, farms for Dickensian factories. But not the potential plenty that turned even basketcases like the Soviet Union into industrial powerhouses.

Blogger tz July 13, 2017 2:48 PM  

@21For example, more immigrants not only means more government dependents....but it also means more consumers and lower priced labor...which create more profit for corporations and more wages...which creates larger tax revenue...which is why (almost) no one in govt and no one in biz opposed unlimited immigration.
No, lower wages, and less tax revenue since the "shareholders" won't pay for the expenses but do an Enron-like obfuscation. We are 20 Trillion in debt with just Treasuries, it doesn't count the "trust funds" or other unfunded liabilities.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 13, 2017 2:49 PM  

Lew Rockwell wrote:Im not sure why or how american whites got so into people pleasing
Women's suffrage.

Blogger tublecane July 13, 2017 2:49 PM  

@9-Minorities AND Jews. Would it be anti-semitic of me to note only a Jew would talk like that?

Blogger Flair1239 July 13, 2017 2:51 PM  

They don't have any reason to believe anything else. They are shipped in, immediately given good food and shelter. Then they are catered to.

You would never invite a complete stranger into your home without some extremely strict boundaries. If you didn't do that, he may feel he can help himself anything.

At this point the horde are helping themselves to our daughters. Needs to stop. We are being forced to tolerate the rape of white girls, by our elected elite.

Anonymous Luca Brayson July 13, 2017 2:51 PM  

I wonder if it would would benefit us to help the left expand the scope of the term "alt-right" rather than fight it. Whenever someone says anything supportive of the West or the classical liberalism described in the article, tell them they sound alt-right. We should claim rule of law and freedom of speech, etc. as alt-right principles. Basically close the gap between the alt-right and the left so that more and more normies will wake up one day and say, "Well I know I'm not one of those crazies on the left, so I guess that makes me alt-right." Once someone self-identifies with the label, it loses its stigma - he would be much more open to actual alt-right ideas.

I think Vox and others have laid down enough pillars of alt-right thought that watering down the word wouldn't do too much harm. But it would definitely hurt the left. First they try to define the entire alt-right as the extreme end of the alt-white. Then they try to label anyone who says anything not entirely far-left as alt-right (they're desperately seeking a replacement for "racist"). This would take out both tactics.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab July 13, 2017 2:53 PM  

Common books and ideas are important. Our forefathers had just a few books but they had read them several times and understood them better than most of us do today. We need to return to the western classics as a standard foreducated westerners. Maybe ten or twenty books and assign them in school.

Blogger Weouro July 13, 2017 2:56 PM  

The incoherence was built in to the design from the start. It's true in a sense that suicidal liberals on the left and right are the true heirs of the American Experiment.

Blogger VD July 13, 2017 2:56 PM  

I wonder if it would would benefit us to help the left expand the scope of the term "alt-right" rather than fight it. Whenever someone says anything supportive of the West or the classical liberalism described in the article, tell them they sound alt-right.

Yes. And yes. This is one of my assumptions.

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. July 13, 2017 2:57 PM  

Everyone that is sane and left-of-center will self-identify as Alt-Right within the next 5 to 10 years. Some, being sane, are already in the bargaining stage.

Feels good, man.

Blogger tublecane July 13, 2017 2:58 PM  

@15-They're not thinking of the word "citizenship" the way a dictionary might put it. It's just a college of letters they typed, which you're supposed to take the general way their feelz are headed. I'm thinking the idea is about roughly equal legal status, giving them the listees the vote, and having laws discriminate in their favor rather than against them.

Minors are citizens as much as adults, despite the fact that they can't vote. Citizenship doesn't give you equality in every political sense. In fact, there are two kinds of citizenship in our polity: natural-born and naturalized. Not that the distinction leads to many differences, but the point is there's no such thing as equality even among nearly identical statuses.

Anonymous Damn Crackers July 13, 2017 3:02 PM  

Can we go back to just saying "Christendom" instead of "Western Civilization?"

Anonymous Lew Rockwell July 13, 2017 3:03 PM  

@33With all due respect...are you paying any attention at all?

Federal tax revenue is at all time high.

State tax revenue is at all time high.

State and fed gov size is at an all time high.

Corporate profits are at all time high.

Stock prices are at an all time high.

Non white population is at all time high.

gdp is at all time high.

federal and state spending is at all time high.

immigrant population is at all time high.

You guys really think thats a coincidence? that big government and big business are both doing better than ever...at the same time...due to the same reasons/causes...while hanging out in the sames places..while youre not? That its just luck?

As for "WE" being "20 trillion in debt" well, you may be on the hook for that bill, but nancy pelosi and mark zuckerberg certain aren't...

Anonymous Ironsides July 13, 2017 3:05 PM  

So, one can't keep the boot of the alien on a people's neck forever. Fancy that.

Blogger NO GOOGLES July 13, 2017 3:11 PM  

@28
If white people behaved like jews, there would ONLY be white people left.

Blogger tublecane July 13, 2017 3:12 PM  

@21-But citizens don't have shareholders' rights, do they? I have no idea what such a country would look like, and a skimmed over the parts of Moldbug which tried to imagine it.

Progressivism went Big Business long before the 90s. Check out Gabriel Kolko's Triumph of Conservatism (conservatism to him being corporate socialism), which is a great book despite his leftism. There are also a great number of "the revolution wuz robbed" books by socialists, not all of them bellyachers. For a conspiratorial angle, check out things like Wall Street and FDR by Antony Sutton. If you want to go loonier, check out stuff like the Creature from Jekyll Island.

The idea that Big Business and progressivism were ever essentially at odds confuses me. Specific interests at specific times, yes. The Rockefeller trust, for instance, wouldn't care to be busted. But it would like to bust a Morgan trust, for instance, if it could get away with it.

But to think of them as antithetical, as many do, is like thinking the Vikings want to destroy the NFL simply because they'd be happy to see the Green Bay Packers die a fiery death. Now way, that's their gravy train.

Blogger August July 13, 2017 3:17 PM  

The Chinese don't like the 白左 either.

Blogger S1AL July 13, 2017 3:19 PM  

The Enlightenment was nothing more than the natural conclusion of the social de-stratification and scientific advances that had been ongoing in Europe for a thousand years. It was neither the greatest achievement not the greatest fault of the West.

Blogger tuberman July 13, 2017 3:29 PM  

This Wapo article is silly, as they should know that they cannot go back, and cannot tweak this direction. They will keep moving toward complete identity politics. The authors lack of self-knowledge is funny.

Yet, at first I mistook it for a Civic Nationalist article.

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Grass July 13, 2017 3:29 PM  

What @13 linked to explains much. The author of that piece still can't bring herself to say Islam and immigrants are the problem.

"Minors are citizens as much as adults, despite the fact that they can't vote. Citizenship doesn't give you equality in every political sense. In fact, there are two kinds of citizenship in our polity: natural-born and naturalized. Not that the distinction leads to many differences, but the point is there's no such thing as equality even among nearly identical statuses."

@42 We don't allowed naturalized citizens to run for office of POTUS (Barry was a non-citizen). Mexico doesn't allow naturalized citizens to do the same, own land, or pilot Mexican planes, or captain Mexican ships.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 13, 2017 3:30 PM  

tublecane wrote:but the point was about the "greatest happiness of the greatest number" measure, and how the Enlightenment basically did nothing on that count for its first couple of centuries.
Had they been honest, when the Enlightenment Thinkers (tm) arrived at "The Greatest Happiness For the Greatest Number" they would have immediately committed suicide.

Anonymous Lew Rockwell July 13, 2017 3:34 PM  

"The idea that Big Business and progressivism were ever essentially at odds confuses me"

You're confused because the answer is too obvious.

Big business and progressivism aren't at odds because they are now the same thing. The self interests of business and the self interest of govt are now identical. As are their means, capabilites, methods, and behaviors.

Big Business and big govt both get what they want from the same place...businesses call them "customers", govt calls them "voters" or "taxpayers"...Clinton/rubin brilliance was realizing that biz and govt didn't need to fight over this source of dollars/support, but could cooperate to capture it. To jointly manage it for their mutual gain.

This join managament is publically/politicalyy called progressivism...its why tim cook et al spouts the same political nonesense that obama did...and why blackity black obama never sent the EEOC to apple to figure out why they don't employ any black people...

If you look at the last 30 years of us govt/business activity...tell me two things.

1.WHat people most aggresively and publically supported this activity?

2.Who got the most benefit from it?

the answers to both questions, of course, are business and government...not a coincedence.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 13, 2017 3:37 PM  

S1AL wrote:The Enlightenment was nothing more than the natural conclusion of the social de-stratification and scientific advances that had been ongoing in Europe for a thousand years.
The Enlightenment (tm) had nothing whatever to do with scientific advancement. It was the final outcome of the Thirty Years War. Once religious tolerance became the official policy, indifference was promoted, especially by Jews, and Atheism was able to stick its rancid nose under the tent. Much like The Renaissance(tm), The Enlightenment(tm) actually represented a step backwards in philosophy and science, as scientific thought was subverted to support Atheism. As an example, Darwinism was promoted, not because it was necessarily true, but was considered true because it removed God from the understanding of life.

Anonymous DonReynolds July 13, 2017 3:39 PM  

It makes me chuckle every time I read yet another attempt to redefine history, especially American history, to fit the narrative pushed by the Leftist Liberals. They must be feeling pretty cocky these days, having already converged all of the mainline churches into the "new and improved" version of the Gospel. Now they believe they will prevail in the war of rhetoric, because all the court jesters are on their side.

This contest is not going to be decided or resolved by who has the nastiest comedians. If that were the case, Negroes would have won decades ago. WE are past the point where talking and finger-pointing is going to do anything more than annoy people. We are close to the "put up or shut up" stage. The violent Left has already given up on the soap box and the ballot box and the jury box. Not many boxes left.

Anonymous andon July 13, 2017 3:40 PM  

We are being forced to tolerate the rape of white girls, by our elected elite.

and they demand that you shut up about it

Anonymous Corvid July 13, 2017 3:43 PM  

The only two positions left are those who defend the blood, nation and Spirit and those who fight to destroy it. Masks are being removed from liars, and fence-sitters (alt-light) will realize that they are effectually choosing evil.

I know this has happened in history before, but living through it feels like the End Times.

Anonymous Stickwick July 13, 2017 3:44 PM  

who deny the equal citizenship of women

Huh? I've never heard anything from the Alt-Right that could be construed as denying women equal citizenship. Where is this coming from? Or is it just the usual leftist amygdala-overload hallucination that insufficient supplication to women = oppression?

Blogger S1AL July 13, 2017 3:45 PM  

Snidely, how are you defining the Enlightenment? It seems to be a very narrow scope compared to my understanding.

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. July 13, 2017 3:51 PM  

This bit is particularly rich:

[...] The alt-right, meanwhile, accepts Western civilization only insofar as it is racist — they fashion themselves defenders of “the West,” but reject the ideas of equality and human dignity that are the West’s principal achievements.

These people... they sit at their computers and bang-out lies about made up shit.

Anonymous Antipas July 13, 2017 3:57 PM  

The real kicker in the article comes later when he mentions how the campus left/SJW's (hey, hey, ho, ho, Western Civ has got to go) "reject[s] Western Civilization because it is racist."

This is going to put the the center left and moderates (muh classical liberalism!) in a thoroughly untenable position. If they decide to purge the radical left, they will be called racist nazis and lose a large portion of their most energized base.

The left has been notoriously silent on punching left over the years. For example, I don't recall Sanders et al condemning the inauguration riots. Perhaps they will be forced to learn?

Blogger tublecane July 13, 2017 3:58 PM  

@40-I think that's partly what Russell Kirk was trying to do with the Conservative Mind, which you rightly denigrate for its quietistic version of rightism. But at the time, leftists dominated high culture even more than they do now, if possible. Most everyone thought of American intellectual history as one long line of liberalism, from Jefferson to the Transcendentalists to the progressive movement.

Kirk fabricated an essentially ahistorical tradition from bits and pieces of similarly-minded names from the Anglo-American tradition. Nowadays, not exactly because of Kirk but had a lot to do with it, people think of distant American history, especially the Founding, as being the domain of the right. The left in no way own patriotism. There's been an overcorrection, in fact, as we can't see the radical part of the Founding anymore, and demonic figures like Lincoln are conservative heroes.

This might have happened anyway, given the left's disgust with anything coming before the Current Year, including previous leftists. But the switch that gave large chunks of American history to conservatives and neocons was a real happening.

It should only be easier to give not only American or Anglo-American history but all of the Western tradition to the alt-right. Which after all actually is of like mind with some of the past (though not all). Unlike conservatives, who are warmed-over leftists lagging only slightly behind the Current Year.

Anonymous andon July 13, 2017 3:59 PM  

Im not sure why or how american whites got so into people pleasing...especially to failed countries, cultures, and peoples...it borders on national codependency...hurting ourselves to help others...to make others feel better about themselves...

its the (((media)))

i remember being a kid about 10 years old and thinking "why in the hell are we supposed to feel sorry for all these other people?"

Blogger Elder Son July 13, 2017 4:01 PM  

The only solution for that is spiritual renewal.

And finish off the Rephaim.

Anonymous andon July 13, 2017 4:02 PM  

Huh? I've never heard anything from the Alt-Right that could be construed as denying women equal citizenship.

some in the Alt-Nazi would like to take away the right of women to vote. prob they would like to force most of them to be housewives and also subservient to men as well.

they talk about absurd things like "white sharia"

Anonymous Gen. Kong July 13, 2017 4:06 PM  

tublecane wrote:
@9-Minorities AND Jews. Would it be anti-semitic of me to note only a Jew would talk like that?

Congratulations. You're now literally Hitler!! according to ADL and (((gaslight media))). Not to worry though, 'cause he dindu nuffins 'n wuz a good boy 'n even goin' beez a rapper or some sheeit. Idi Amin say so.

Anonymous johnc July 13, 2017 4:08 PM  

@65 some in the Alt-Nazi would like to take away the right of women to vote. prob they would like to force most of them to be housewives and also subservient to men as well.

So basically early- and mid-20th century America was filled with Nazis? In the spirit of the article, call me a Nazi then.

Anonymous Gen. Kong July 13, 2017 4:11 PM  

Not many boxes left.

... almost down to cartridge boxes - and pine boxes for the losers if they're lucky.

Blogger tublecane July 13, 2017 4:14 PM  

@65-White Sharia is a stupid meme. There's wide ground between the gynocracy/homo-tyranny We suffer under today and traditional Islam. Let's not go Dark Ages.

"Some in the alt-Nazi would like to take away the right of women to vote. prob they would like to force most of them to be housewives and all also subservient to men as well"

Children can't vote and are supposed to be subservient to their parents (up to a point). That doesn't mean they don't have "equal citizenship." If people want to talk about the social and political status of women beyond citizenship, they should find the right words.

Anonymous Grayman July 13, 2017 4:16 PM  

@68 Kong,

We're putting the losers through wood chippers. Pine boxes would be a waste.

Blogger Robert Pinkerton July 13, 2017 4:18 PM  

PERPENDICULAR TO THE TOPIC:
Susan Sontag called us ".. the cancer of humanity." OK, but just who in the Unholy Name of Saint [bleep!] is this person, that we nee to give weight to her views?

Blogger AaMcavoy July 13, 2017 4:23 PM  

Can someone more erudite than myself help me find out if there is a meaningful distinction between western civilization and what formerly was referred to as Christendom? My impression is that using the term western civilization is part of an effort to enjoy European civilization without Christianity. But I'm still looking into it.

Anonymous Stickwick July 13, 2017 4:27 PM  

andon: some in the Alt-Nazi would like to take away the right of women to vote. prob they would like to force most of them to be housewives and also subservient to men as well.

Ah, okay, that's where it's coming from. Better stick something about sandwiches in there, too, if you wanna do it properly.

Article 3: Sandwiches

3.1 The wife shall make no less than one (1) sandwich per day, to the husband's satisfaction, unless otherwise directed by the husband.

a) The proper ratio of meat-to-bread-to-fixin's shall be established...

Blogger S1AL July 13, 2017 4:28 PM  

Christendom encompasses all Christian nations. The West is a subset (Russia may or may not be included, Ethiopia is not, South and Central America are not, etc.).

Anonymous Mr. Rational July 13, 2017 4:32 PM  

Widely Headgash wrote:The Enlightenment(tm) actually represented a step backwards in philosophy and science, as scientific thought was subverted to support Atheism. As an example, Darwinism was promoted, not because it was necessarily true, but was considered true because it removed God from the understanding of life.
You know so many things that are utter nonsense, it's funny.

Evolution was an observed fact for decades before Darwin wrote OTOOS.  It was obvious from the geologic column that life forms had changed radically over time, yet the changes were incremental (evolutionary) between closely-spaced strata.  This is not what you'd expect from a "creation event", or even a series of them.

All Darwin did was provide an explanation for WHY this happens.  You hate him because, like Laplace, he had no need of your hypothesis.

Anonymous Rusty Fife July 13, 2017 4:36 PM  

AaMcavoy wrote:Can someone more erudite than myself help me find out if there is a meaningful distinction between western civilization and what formerly was referred to as Christendom? My impression is that using the term western civilization is part of an effort to enjoy European civilization without Christianity. But I'm still looking into it.

Read Clash of Civilizations.

There are two Christendom's; Eastern (Orthodox) & Western (Catholic/Protestant).

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd July 13, 2017 4:40 PM  

Mr. Rational wrote:Evolution was an observed fact ...

Selective breeding, whether driven by farmers' preferences or natural selection, has never been controversial. The goo-to-you version of evolution you seem to be talking about has never been observed, period.

Blogger VFM #7634 July 13, 2017 4:50 PM  

Huh? I've never heard anything from the Alt-Right that could be construed as denying women equal citizenship. Where is this coming from? Or is it just the usual leftist amygdala-overload hallucination that insufficient supplication to women = oppression?

@58 Stickwick
Presumably by "equal citizenship" he's referring to the alt-right position that women (or recent immigrants, or low-IQ r-selected races like blacks) having the right to vote may not necessarily be a good idea. And indeed, it has proven disastrous.

Blogger Solaire Of Astora July 13, 2017 4:55 PM  

Leftists claiming the legacy of the west is We Wuz Kangz level pitiful.

Blogger tublecane July 13, 2017 5:01 PM  

@72-As others have noted, there are Christians outside of the West. Additionally, pagan civilizations like the Greeks and Romans are counted as not only part of the West, but its foundation.

Anonymous andon July 13, 2017 5:08 PM  

White Sharia is a stupid meme

yes, i hate it so much. White or European men deciding that acting like mooslims is the solution. Also some like Christopher Cantwell are pushing polygamy now too.

Anonymous JAG July 13, 2017 5:10 PM  

The Smoking Man wrote:There will be a large number of left whites who will be denied sanctuary. They cannot be allowed within our gates once our parallel civilization is up and running.

Agreed. We cannot make that mistake. It would only lead to ruin once again. They are destroyers, liars, thieves, and just pure evil. They will do it again if given the chance. We can't give them that chance again.

Anonymous andon July 13, 2017 5:14 PM  

Article 3: Sandwiches

3.1 The wife shall make no less than one (1) sandwich per day, to the husband's satisfaction, unless otherwise directed by the husband.


lol, sounds good

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 13, 2017 5:22 PM  

some in the Alt-Nazi would like to take away the right of women to vote. prob they would like to force most of them to be housewives and also subservient to men as well.

Probably because women's suffrage has been an obvious disaster for every country that has foolishly adopted it.


You know so many things that are utter nonsense, it's funny.

Says Mr. "Anthropogenic Climate Change will kill us alllll!!!!!11!"

Blogger Wolfman at Large July 13, 2017 5:25 PM  

Anime avatars will indeed save the day.

Desu Vult

Blogger J A Baker July 13, 2017 5:25 PM  

If you don't have a good church in your area this one goes live online for it's services and has a library of teachings available on their site.

This is from their YouTube channel (no longer updated) back in 2013 right in the middle of Obama's presidency. You won't hear anything like this in 99 percent of US churches even with the relaxed Johnson Amnd.

https://youtu.be/zCjQghH_Du0

Anonymous Mr. Rational July 13, 2017 5:26 PM  

Ominous Cowherd wrote:The goo-to-you version of evolution you seem to be talking about has never been observed, period.
If you go back far enough in sedimentary rocks, you stop finding bones and shells.  You do find tracks in fossilized mud from the Ediacaran.  Before that, you find evidence of bacterial colonies like stromatolites but no macroorganisms.  Goo.  And there's an unbroken line of succession from it to you, whether you want to believe it or not.

Want to disprove evolution completely?  Finding just ONE rabbit fossil in a Cambrian rock would do it, among a billion other things that haven't ever happened.  If evolution is false, you've been mightly lazy about proving it.  Ranting and raving is for people who are wrong and sore about it.  Go assist at a fossil dig instead.

Selective breeding, whether driven by farmers' preferences or natural selection, has never been controversial.
So old Charlie Darwin deduced a natural mechanism driving selective breeding.  Why is this the slightest bit controversial?

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable July 13, 2017 5:30 PM  

Huh? I've never heard anything from the Alt-Right that could be construed as denying women equal citizenship.

What? You haven't read the Seventeen Points?

Blogger Buybuydandavis July 13, 2017 5:36 PM  

VD: This is why I keep pointing out that the Alt-Right is inevitable. You can play all the word games you like. ... You can invent whatever contorted and ahistorical definitions you like. ... But in the end, so long as you continue to deny that a nation is a group of people related by blood, language, and tradition, and deny that the West is a civilization constructed by, of, and for European Christians,

You're the one playing language games, thinking that the definition of "nation" is what determines the future.

The fact is that the US became a superpower, and *the* superpower as a multi ethnic state. Works for me.

If you don't want to call the US a nation, don't. That would just go to show that nationhood_VD of a polity is not required for the success of a polity's state and the polity itself.

The best way to proceed for the people in a state, and the way that they actually choose, is going be very state and path dependent. Ethnic purity of a state has costs as well as benefits, particularly if you're trying to unmix a multi ethnic state that isn't already geographically segregated by ethnicity.

As for the intent of people long dead - it matters only as far as the living care about it. The living are free to act according to their own intent.

The Alt-Right is inevitable? By the inevitable biological material dialectic? No, the living will prefer and choose and act. History is strewn with supposed inevitabilities that never came to pass.

Claiming inevitability is not an argument. Getting wound up over definition of terms is not either.

Blogger Buybuydandavis July 13, 2017 5:50 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Lew Rockwell wrote:Im not sure why or how american whites got so into people pleasing

Women's suffrage.


Left vs. Right is largely Mommy Values vs. Daddy values.

Trouble is, Mommy values work intrafamily, not interfamily, and certainly not at the level of hundreds of millions of people.

Daddy values are interfamily and societal. They have scaling problems too, but at least there is some design for both hierarchy and game theory within them.

Anonymous JAG July 13, 2017 6:02 PM  

Buybuydandavis wrote:VD: This is why I keep pointing out that the Alt-Right is inevitable. You can play all the word games you like. ... You can invent whatever contorted and ahistorical definitions you like. ... But in the end, so long as you continue to deny that a nation is a group of people related by blood, language, and tradition, and deny that the West is a civilization constructed by, of, and for European Christians,

You're the one playing language games, thinking that the definition of "nation" is what determines the future.

The fact is that the US became a superpower, and *the* superpower as a multi ethnic state. Works for me.

If you don't want to call the US a nation, don't. That would just go to show that nationhood_VD of a polity is not required for the success of a polity's state and the polity itself.

The best way to proceed for the people in a state, and the way that they actually choose, is going be very state and path dependent. Ethnic purity of a state has costs as well as benefits, particularly if you're trying to unmix a multi ethnic state that isn't already geographically segregated by ethnicity.

As for the intent of people long dead - it matters only as far as the living care about it. The living are free to act according to their own intent.

The Alt-Right is inevitable? By the inevitable biological material dialectic? No, the living will prefer and choose and act. History is strewn with supposed inevitabilities that never came to pass.

Claiming inevitability is not an argument. Getting wound up over definition of terms is not either.


The US was already the Super Power before 1965 in which it became multi ethnic. Notice how we can't win wars since then? Likewise, you refuse to notice that we are waning further down the hole as we get more multi ethnic?

Also, VD has explained many times, in very simple terms, why the Alt-Right is inevitable. You are refusing to deal with that in typical Gamma fashion because you know you can't win going down that road.

Seriously, for someone who claimed to have a couple of points I.Q.-wise on Vox you sure don't demonstrate that, but I guess I just haven't seen the Secret King in all his undefeated glory.

Go back to the Cowboys forums. They are more suitable to your level.

Blogger Billy Ray July 13, 2017 6:04 PM  

oh please, vox playing semantic word games again. there is little to no difference between the left, the alt lite, the alt right etc. because you are all just versions of the left. nazi, socialist, communist, social democrat etc etc ARE ALL LEFT IDEOLOGIES and you folks are just picking and choosing from the a la carte menu to fit whatever thing is blowing smoke up your butt today. and because you pick option B instead of A you act like you are completely different and you're not

Blogger wreckage July 13, 2017 6:09 PM  

I see @89 is still at "denial".

A nation is a people-group. They are very, very stable; for example, people-groups in the UK haven't blurred much in close to 1000 years; DNA markers in the USA suggest neither white nor black American communities have blurred much in 200 years.

Asserting that a trend of no more than 2 generations, possibly as little as 20 years, defines the entire future with greater reliability than those that have repeatedly asserted themselves across thousands of years and in every environment imaginable is self-refuting.

"Trends aren't reliable, therefore the most ephemeral trends are inevitability itself!"

Really, you need to get up to speed on the arguments that have already happened. Go read "The Poverty of Historicism"

Vox's position is not "inevitable biological material dialectic", it's "reductionist".

"The Alt-Right is inevitable because the living will prefer and choose and act"

... and those who do not prefer and choose and act in accordance with producing the maximal number of surviving offspring will be excluded from the next iteration of "prefer, choose, act", over, and over, and over.

Anonymous Iacobus July 13, 2017 6:10 PM  

Billy Ray wrote:oh please, vox playing semantic word games again. there is little to no difference between the left, the alt lite, the alt right etc. because you are all just versions of the left. nazi, socialist, communist, social democrat etc etc ARE ALL LEFT IDEOLOGIES and you folks are just picking and choosing from the a la carte menu to fit whatever thing is blowing smoke up your butt today. and because you pick option B instead of A you act like you are completely different and you're not

LOL what? I can't stop laughing, that's how stupid you sound.

Anonymous Whitey Whiteman III July 13, 2017 6:13 PM  

Semi-on topic, but just a head's up that there are a bunch of happenings, today, in regard to the Ukranians, emails, and the Hillary camp colluding with them on the Russian/Trump narrative. Still kind of a mess on /pol/

Blogger Buybuydandavis July 13, 2017 6:13 PM  



Lew Rockwell wrote
:

Im not sure why or how american whites got so into people pleasing...especially to failed countries, cultures, and peoples...it borders on national codependency...hurting ourselves to help others...to make others feel better about themselves...


My theory is that a millennium and more of biological and cultural evolution driven by a guilt based religion designed a people susceptible to guilt based attacks.

It's not people pleasing, it's also the threat to moral status, both in the others of others and themselves. SJWs have it particularly bad.

I'm often amused by a friend's moral tizzies. He's not consistent enough to avoid violating his standards, but gets all bent out of shape when he realizes it.

"Am I a bad person?" It consumes him at times. Instead of wanting the good, and wanting to avoid the bad, it's a very self regarding personal moral status monitoring.

Anonymous Roginald July 13, 2017 6:14 PM  

What white liberals fail to acknowledge is that whites are by far the most liberal people on Earth, maybe the only truly liberal people on Earth. An American conservative still holds views more "progressive" than 95% of people of every other race. If white civilization falls, all modern liberal civilization also falls. That's why I think most of these people aren't actually liberal. They just hate white people and want us gone. We can't let them win.

Blogger Tuatha July 13, 2017 6:18 PM  

George Washington was a gamma male. Charlemagne was a gamma male. Jesse James, Alfred the Great and Elvis were all gamma males.

Blogger VD July 13, 2017 6:30 PM  

You're the one playing language games, thinking that the definition of "nation" is what determines the future.

You're really not very smart.

Blogger Buybuydandavis July 13, 2017 6:36 PM  

JAG wrote:

1) The US was already the Super Power before 1965 in which it became multi ethnic.

2) Also, VD has explained many times, in very simple terms, why the Alt-Right is inevitable.

3) ... Gamma ... ... I.Q. ... Secret King

4) Go back to the Cowboys forums. They are more suitable to your level.



1) US was multi ethnic well before 1965. Hint: Germans and Irish and Swedes and Danes and Italians and English are all different ethnicities. Blacks are a different ethnicity too.

2) VD *claims* inevitability for the Alt-Right all the time. If you have a specific and precise reference where he *demonstrates* the claimed inevitability, I'd be happy to read it.

3) You forgot "midwit". Really, folks, it's silly enough that VD has his own brand of ad hominems that he trots out all too liberally, but for any of his readers to ape his ad hominem lingo and liberal usage of it is simply embarrassing. Have you gone chrome dome as well? Baby Metal fan?

4) Go Cowboys!

Anonymous BBGKB July 13, 2017 6:37 PM  

JEW: Thank you. Please to send $3 billion to Israel, our greatest ally. I love America.

I wish the value of all the AID given to Israel was less than $8billion a year.

Blogger Student in Blue July 13, 2017 6:39 PM  

@96. Buybuydandavis
I'm often amused by a friend's moral tizzies. He's not consistent enough to avoid violating his standards, but gets all bent out of shape when he realizes it.

There are different denominations that handle that same aspect differently. It's not correct to lump them all together.

Blogger AaMcavoy July 13, 2017 6:43 PM  

S1AL, Rusty Fife, and tublecane thank you. Don't know how I forgot that there were lots of christian countries outside Europe. And that the Greeks and Romans are part of western civ. Whoops.

Blogger Tuatha July 13, 2017 6:44 PM  

"oh please, vox playing semantic word games again. there is little to no difference between the left, the alt lite, the alt right etc. because you are all just versions of the left. nazi, socialist, communist, social democrat etc etc ARE ALL LEFT IDEOLOGIES and you folks are just picking and choosing from the a la carte menu to fit whatever thing is blowing smoke up your butt today. and because you pick option B instead of A you act like you are completely different and you're not"

Typical hickshit conservatard, the left and right are the two sides of the same infected body. The alt-right does not play by the rules of the parasite and does not need anything from dumbasses stuck in the 50s mentality of 'vote right to get old murrica back'.

Blogger Buybuydandavis July 13, 2017 6:45 PM  

VD wrote:You're the one playing language games, thinking that the definition of "nation" is what determines the future.

You're really not very smart.


And that's still not an argument.

"Sixty-two thousand four hundred repetitions make one truth"
- Huxley

It's not literally true.

Blogger MendoScot July 13, 2017 6:46 PM  

Testing - ignore.

Blogger VD July 13, 2017 6:57 PM  

And that's still not an argument.

No, it's again, an observable fact. Which is based on the fact that you incorrectly characterize both my actions and my thoughts.

As I have said before, there is need to bother addressing your attempts at criticism. You're simply not intelligent enough to construct substantive critiques.

Blogger Buybuydandavis July 13, 2017 6:57 PM  

Student in Blue wrote:@96. Buybuydandavis

I'm often amused by a friend's moral tizzies. He's not consistent enough to avoid violating his standards, but gets all bent out of shape when he realizes it.

There are different denominations that handle that same aspect differently. It's not correct to lump them all together.


My friend is actually Jewish.

But I take your point about Christian denominations not all being identical. My generalizing about Christianity was not intended to imply otherwise.

At the first level down, the Protestants seem to have it worse than the Catholics. The Church as intermediary probably has something to do with that. Although obviously I'm just spitballing based on personal experience here.

If you're thinking of a particular sect that doesn't really fit my comments well, I'd be interested to hear how.

Anonymous andon July 13, 2017 7:01 PM  

71. Blogger Robert Pinkerton July 13, 2017 4:18 PM
PERPENDICULAR TO THE TOPIC:
Susan Sontag called us ".. the cancer of humanity." OK, but just who in the Unholy Name of Saint [bleep!] is this person, that we nee to give weight to her views?


she was just another jew that hated whites

Blogger Mountain Man July 13, 2017 7:13 PM  

@ Lew Rockwell.
Is that really the Lew Rockwell of lewrockwell.com fame..or just someone pretending to be?

Blogger Tatooine Sharpshooters' Club July 13, 2017 7:19 PM  

1) US was multi ethnic well before 1965. Hint: Germans and Irish and Swedes and Danes and Italians and English are all different ethnicities.

So "multi-ethnic" that there's only been one Catholic President, and never an Italian one? Off the top of my head, I'd say no Swedes or Danes either.

Anonymous Blaster July 13, 2017 7:27 PM  

Im not sure why or how american whites got so into people pleasing...especially to failed countries, cultures, and peoples...it borders on national codependency...hurting ourselves to help others...to make others feel better about themselves...

Political influence of the single, childless female. The academic feminists preaching their radical Marxist ideologies and the urban career women voting for compassion and egalitarian ideals (voting with their ballots and their consumption)

Blogger Buybuydandavis July 13, 2017 7:36 PM  

VD wrote:And that's still not an argument.

1) No, it's again, an observable fact. Which is based on the fact that you incorrectly characterize both my actions and my thoughts.

2) As I have said before, there is need to bother addressing your attempts at criticism. You're simply not intelligent enough to construct substantive critiques.


1) My observation in turn is that your arguments are neither complete nor coherent. The dots really don't connect. I am left to connect them as best I may, and try to do so as fairly as I can. I'm trying to understand just what argument you've got. Where I see contradictions and nonsense, I bring it up, in case anyone here can correct my misinterpretations, or confirm them.

2) I don't expect you to have a particular interest in anything I have to say. In turn, if you were some internet rando, I would have written off further discussion long ago. At least for the purpose of understanding. Floundering over words and then calling me dumb half a dozen times. Not a lot of bang for the buck.

But you're not a rando. I have an interest in you as a thought leader in the Alt-Right. Not you personally, but what ideas are driving the Alt-Right. The Media's shrieks of "Racist!" are not particularly illuminating in that regard.

Blogger praetorian July 13, 2017 7:40 PM  

they talk about absurd things like "white sharia"

White sharia is a religion of peace.

HOW DARE YOU.

Blogger Koanic July 13, 2017 7:40 PM  

Women are not citizens because they do not die in battle for the polis. They are spoils of war.

Women die for their husbands in childbirth. Like children, they are not entities accountable to the state.

Blogger Thucydides July 13, 2017 7:44 PM  

@47
"The idea that Big Business and progressivism were ever essentially at odds confuses me. Specific interests at specific times, yes. The Rockefeller trust, for instance, wouldn't care to be busted. But it would like to bust a Morgan trust, for instance, if it could get away with it. "

The crux of the matter is the long term goal of Progressivism, which is to "abolish the dictatorship of the Middle Class". Really stop and think about that for a moment. Even the Ancient Greeks recognized the importance of the middle class as a means of moderating the constant conflicts between the rich and the poor, but Progressives will have none of that.

If California is a model of the Progressive future, their end state will resemble Feudalism, with themselves in the positions of the Feudal lords and masses of peons slaving away to keep them in the style they are accustomed to. The deliberate destruction of the education system ensures that middle class children are illiterate, innumerate and ignorant of history, and are unequipped to challenge the corporatist system through merit (they will have neither the technical skills nor the ability to "read" the social behaviour codes which define the "aristocracy". Punishing taxes and regulations (in Canada, the average family of 4 spends between 40 and 44% of their income on taxes and government fees, and I'm sure you can do the math where you live) make the accumulation of savings, investment capital and paying away wealth for your children becomes increasingly difficult, cutting off the growth of potential competitors.

So Big Business can get into the harness with Progressivism, because this allows them to quash potential competitors, and allows them to take their place as the Aristocratic "elites" of the Progressive "New Order".

Blogger tz July 13, 2017 7:50 PM  

@44 I suppose if you isolate things, you have a point, but if I triple spending and "create jobs" I can double tax revenue too - while the debt is going up. GDP counts "government spending", at least with a plus sign. Yes, lets import another 50 million immigrants and refugees to go on government paid welfare, that will increase the number of consumers, profits, etc. Wages have been stagnant for 8 years. And that doesn't count inflation. I'm sure Zimbabwe had hugely increasing tax revenues and wages too. you may be on the hook for that bill, but nancy pelosi and mark zuckerberg certain aren't... I expect their estates to be once they are hanging from utility poles.

@72 See Tom Woods "how the Catholic Church saved civilization". The dark ages weren't. Christendom is the societal structure and culture, especially post treaty of Westphalia. The Enlightenment wasn't as enlightened (see French Revolution and Reign of Terror). Western civilization is the result of the various form of Christianity in Europe interacting with the states and bringing the ideas, e.g. that God set up everything rationally, and bringing in the Jewish threads left post-Resurrection, and the Graeco-Roman philosophy and pagan virtues and culture. (It is slightly different than Medieval - see Lewis, The Discarded Image that details the differences).

An Asian Eastern Christendom - Civilization would differ markedly. You can even trace the difference between Rome/Paris/London/etc. v.s. Constantinople - the eastern-lite civilization wasn't as adaptive, curious, or innovative. It was Charles Magnus in the 8th century that started systematic copying of ancient works. I don't think people going to Byzantium found Aristotle and Euripides. I can add in later centuries Russia.

The Zenith was in England starting with the Magna Charta and going through the US Constitution and the liberal (libertarian) shift in England under Lord Acton and other things that resulted in the British Empire.

France produced Bastiat, but didn't produce libertarian policies.

Blogger tz July 13, 2017 7:51 PM  

@89 BuyBuyDanDavis - I didn't know he was for sale. Is there a price or opening bid?

Blogger Buybuydandavis July 13, 2017 7:52 PM  

Tatooine Sharpshooters' Club wrote:

So "multi-ethnic" that there's only been one Catholic President, and never an Italian one? Off the top of my head, I'd say no Swedes or Danes either.


If Presidents are the thing, it seems that the Scots and Dutch have gotten a few.

http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=98954.0

But I think the general population demographics are more relevant. By 2010 census data, Germans are the most prevalent group, followed by Blacks, Irish, Mexicans, and English. Then "Americans".

It would take *all* the Americans added to the English to top the Germans, then just barely, and surely American includes a lot of white mutts and ethnicities besides English. I believe the big waves of German and Irish were completed about a hundred years ago, so that's looking pretty multi ethnic to me.

http://www.businessinsider.com/largest-ethnic-groups-in-america-2013-8

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable July 13, 2017 8:10 PM  

Billy Ray wrote:oh please, vox playing semantic word games again. there is little to no difference between the left, the alt lite, the alt right etc. because you are all just versions of the left. nazi, socialist, communist, social democrat etc etc ARE ALL LEFT IDEOLOGIES and you folks are just picking and choosing from the a la carte menu to fit whatever thing is blowing smoke up your butt today. and because you pick option B instead of A you act like you are completely different and you're not

Snort some more coke. Also, you have to go back.

Blogger Allen Skeens July 13, 2017 8:15 PM  

-Wanderer- Its both.

Anonymous Beresford July 13, 2017 8:15 PM  

To Western civilization's discredit, it produced communism, modern/postmodern art, and .PC along with all the good stuff.

Communism was created by (((Trotsky))) and (((The Bolsheviks))) based on (((Marx's))) ideas.

I would not be surprised to find out that postmodern art and political correctness were created by (((them))) too.


@Stickwick: Women should not be involved in politics or the military.

Blogger Roger G2 July 13, 2017 8:15 PM  

The alt-Right's "genuinely ugly ideas?"
I would appreciate it if someone on the left would explain the left's definition of altRight-without the usual "Trump white supremacist racist Pepe the Frog memes!"
From what I can tell it's just common sense and the survival of one's progeny in one's homeland.
Ugly? How so? It's a set of ideas for people the world over, not just white people living in the west.

Anonymous Jack July 13, 2017 8:20 PM  

@buybuydandavis

"The fact is that the US became a superpower, and *the* superpower as a multi ethnic state. Works for me."
If you don't want to call the US a nation, don't. That would just go to show that nationhood_VD of a polity is not required for the success of a polity's state and the polity itself.
The best way to proceed for the people in a state, and the way that they actually choose, is going be very state and path dependent. Ethnic purity of a state has costs as well as benefits, particularly if you're trying to unmix a multi ethnic state that isn't already geographically segregated by ethnicity."

The US was multi-ethnic but not multi-racial or multi-cultural in any significant way. The more diverse - ethnically, racially, culturally, linguistically, religiously - a polity becomes, the more difficult it will be the people to collectively "choose the best way to proceed" because there will be too many competing and contradictory interests. The more that situation worsens, the more people will become tribal and "vote they boys" as the 16 points says.

So the definition of "nation" is not arbitrary. It is a question of naming something that actually exists in nature and defining its characteristics, which in this case are common blood, common religion, common language, and common culture. This has been the working definition of nationhood for 2500 years in the West, going back to why the Athenians and Spartans decided to team up against the Persians.

Anonymous Grayman July 13, 2017 8:25 PM  

@86 J A baker

Hell of a sermon. Seems like a few real churches might exist!

Blogger Allen Skeens July 13, 2017 8:34 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous BBGKB July 13, 2017 8:37 PM  

Women and minorities and Jews, Oh My!

That yellow brick road never stood a chance. Gold diggers, gold teethers, & gold flinchers.


OT: I wasn't sure if I wanted to post this here but this is the face of leftist opposition. Don't drink when you click.
https://gab.ai/BGKB/posts/9766076

Anonymous MIG July 13, 2017 8:44 PM  

What is NAJALT?

Blogger Timmy3 July 13, 2017 8:45 PM  

I read the article in its entirety. He has a point. To equate West with racism is dishonest and changes the debate. I wouldn't necessarily say it disarms the Left, but the Right will have a easier time of defending themselves. Racist charges lose their bite.

Blogger Lovekraft July 13, 2017 9:01 PM  

A clear example of this is Hillary's "Basket of Deplorables" that backfired spectacularly. And there wasn't any backing away from the wretch either. This obsession with race, gender, moral relativism etc eventually has to face reality.

Blogger AureliusMoner July 13, 2017 9:02 PM  

"...ideals of pluralism and self-governance and individual rights that were...the West’s greatest achievements."

That's the dividing line. The Alt-Right realizes that these were the West's greatest blunders, precisely because they contain within themselves the principles of our tradition's self-cannibalization. Pluralism? To hell with it, we want our proper identity. Self-governance? Sounds fascinating, but since Leftism is License, our culture produces people who literally can't rule their own persons and habits, let alone "govern themselves" in a more grandiose sense. Individual Rights? Hell no, we'd rather to back to doing what IS right, not self-contradictorily demanding rights to do wrong. "Rights" can only derive from an objective concept of what is Right; and no objective concept of what is Right, honors evils with its own name. What is Right may tolerate some wrongs, but it could never invest wrongs with rights.

We're done with the Leftist Counter-Tradition that is destroying the West. Many of us were dumb enough to believe all the BS about the deletion of the West being "the greatest achievement of the West." Now, the contrast is clearer and the battle lines are being drawn. Liberalism - yes, even Classical Liberalism - is not "the West." It is the philosophy of a tribe of parasites that has long been plundering the West. Let us be done with it, and with them!

Anonymous andon July 13, 2017 9:11 PM  

@ #86 J A Baker

yes, good sermon

Anonymous CoolHand July 13, 2017 9:15 PM  

MIG wrote:What is NAJALT?

Not
All
Jews
Are
Like
That

Blogger Whisker biscuit July 13, 2017 9:17 PM  

Speaking of Ol Charlie D, I miss Vox crushing his theory. The wealth of info on past blog posts is staggering.

Anonymous andon July 13, 2017 9:24 PM  

looks like the latest from Pastor Ricci are here:

http://gracecfellowship.org/services3.aspx

Blogger J A Baker July 13, 2017 9:27 PM  

@ Grayman & andon, thanks for giving Pastor Ricci a listen, happy to share. Also thanks for the link andon.

Anonymous Gen. Kong July 13, 2017 9:54 PM  

Ricci is great - even sound like Tony Soprano!

Anonymous johnc July 13, 2017 10:06 PM  

We have a suicide epidemic in this country...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/07/13/gop-operative-who-sought-clintons-emails-committed-suicide.html

Blogger J A Baker July 13, 2017 10:10 PM  

@138. johnc.

Yeah I just saw that on an msnbc feed. Did you no msnbc has disabled it's comments section?

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella July 13, 2017 10:13 PM  

Vox, please look up Verdun, slaves, Radhanite traders. It's all a big mess of ancient history, post-Roman Empire, pre- High Medieval. I've been trying to sort it out for the past week.

What I've put together is that anti-semitism is anti-slave raider. The Radhanite traders would steal women and children throughout the now- disorganized,poor, undefended Western Europe, herd them to particular cities- Verdun, Lyons,- castrate the boys, then ship out all the survivors to wealthier regions.

Charlemagne going Christian wasn't so much positive Christianity in all its details, but rather anti-slavery. The various Christian rulers having to confront their pagan barons wasn't just a Sunday School scheduling issue: they were trying to protect the women and children of their tribe from being stolen by slave raiders. In this, the pagans and Jews dominated. Later, when the Muslims showed up,Muslims simply went for mass killings and enslavings of entire towns, denuding coastal cities of all their people.

After Christendom adopted innovations like castles, two story houses, metal locks, sheriffs and knights patrolling roads and boats for smugglers- the structure of Western civil society- the slave raiders shifted east, to Ukraine, Poland, Russia, and so on.

Crimean slave raids stripped out over two million slaves over the course of only two centuries. There were four people dying for every slave that made it to market- in the raid, and then in transport.

The Radhanite traders made it to China: they have big-nosed sculptures of Western traders. China also had a roaring business in castrated men and prostitutes, the hallmark of luxury human trafficking.

It shows up if you google Verdun, slavery, on Wikipedia, and in scholarly books on google. The historians are fans of this trade, saying that the slaves had fulfilling lives with interesting jobs such as miner, entertainer, sex slave, galley slave.

Roxana, beloved of Suleiman the Magnificent, was Alexandra from Rohatyn in what is now Poland. She was stolen, then sold on the slave market. If you read a biography of her, she basically was like any Northern European- she studied science, math, languages, while serving as the chief consort of the Sultan. This is always shown as a positive thing, not as a Christian girl can thrive anywhere with the strength of the Holy Spirit.

If you look up a google image, or youtube of the dethroned royals of the Osman royal house, they all have blue eyes. They look like cousins of the current royals throughout Europe, since, basically, they are.

The histories are written by people who are still angry that Cossacks snatched their children for the army, but are really quite certain that Christian peasants "maybe" missed their children, and that furthermore, their children were quite better off in slavery in foreign lands.

I cannot do justice to the horror of reading all of this, but I think you might.

Blogger J A Baker July 13, 2017 10:13 PM  

Sorry meant MSN here is their message to readers about their comments sections: MSN has temporarily removed commenting on our websites while we explore better ways for you to engage in discussion on the issues you care about.

Anonymous Mr. Rational July 13, 2017 10:13 PM  

@134  I was first introduced to VD by actual scientists lampooning his rants about Darwin.

As if Darwin, who had no knowledge of Mendelian inheritance or DNA, was anything like a final authority in the field.  Railing against CD is the acme of straw-man arguments.

Blogger Charles Martel July 13, 2017 10:34 PM  

"[T]he alt-right...is hostile to the once-radical ideals of pluralism and self-governance and individual rights that were developed during the Western Enlightenment and its offshoots."

Screw pluralism. Self-governance has proved to be anarchist mob rule. Screw that, too. Individual rights? There is no "right" to murder an unborn baby, to insert one's penis into another man's anus, to confiscate someone's property so that corporatism can expand.

Anonymous Marvin Boggs July 13, 2017 10:44 PM  

@63: I don't (well, very little). I've spent some time travelling in the third world. Virtually no one there is willing to do anything to set things right in their crappy little countries, be it locally or nationally. They expect handouts left, right and centre.

When someone is working hard to achieve a laudable goal, I don't mind lending a hand, if I can. But I'm not about to take a major part in the play.

Anonymous andon July 13, 2017 11:01 PM  

What I've put together is that anti-semitism is anti-slave raider. The Radhanite traders would steal women and children throughout the now- disorganized,poor, undefended Western Europe, herd them to particular cities- Verdun, Lyons,- castrate the boys, then ship out all the survivors to wealthier regions.

maybe this kind of thing is why they try so hard to rewrite your history with you as the bad guy

Blogger CM July 13, 2017 11:12 PM  

--equal citizenship of women --

Hate to break it to him, but white women who accept and embrace motherhood are just as much a part of Western Civilization as White men are.

53% of white women voted Trump. Just the beginning.

Anonymous Anonymous July 13, 2017 11:42 PM  

"They expect handouts left, right and centre."

POC. Visit Baltimo'...

Anonymous MongoJimmy July 13, 2017 11:53 PM  

Women and minorities and Jews, Oh My!

Theyyy're... off to see the Lizard, uh I mean Wizard, the wunnerful Wizard of Poz!

Anonymous Anonymous July 13, 2017 11:58 PM  

USA: You can't be a citizen here, Mr. Jew. You're a citizen of Israel.

JEW: ANTISEMITE! *sob* HOLOCAUST!

----------------

I'll never understand them. They're the ones who want to import the worst. You can only hide so long in Brooklyn.

USA: Um, no, wait, don't cry, here's your passport.

JEW: Thank you. Please to send $3 billion to Israel, our greatest ally. I love America.

Anonymous andon July 14, 2017 12:04 AM  

OT:

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/07/13/attorney-general-jeff-sessions-announces-largest-take-down-of-healthcare-fraud-in-u-s-history/

Blogger Buybuydandavis July 14, 2017 12:11 AM  

Jack wrote:


1) The US was multi-ethnic but not multi-racial or multi-cultural in any significant way.

2) The more diverse ... - the more difficult it will be the people to collectively "choose the best way to proceed" because there will be too many competing and contradictory interests.

3) So the definition of "nation" is not arbitrary. It is a question of naming something that actually exists in nature and defining its characteristics, which in this case are common blood, common religion, common language, and common culture. This has been the working definition of nationhood for 2500 years in the West, going back to why the Athenians and Spartans decided to team up against the Persians.


1) The Germans, Irish, and English think they are different nations. They didn't and don't think they have the same culture. They find significance in their differences, even if you don't.

2) That's where you could just be wrong. There can be advantages to a polity of diverse interests and preferences. Checks and balances. Competing interests can either fight to impose one on the other, *or* find rules minimizing the imposition. Notice that such diversity provides an incentive for Liberty that a monoculture does not, and probably less for tyranny and war. A lot less homogeneity in Japan and Germany, and we don't have WWII.

Notice that it was the multi ethnic society that emerged victorious in the 20th Century against the Japanese and German ethnostates *and* the Soviet Empire. Not bad.

That doesn't mean that all cultures and peoples are compatible.

AND THAT IS NOT MY CLAIM

The US, and the Anglosphere generally, have done the best job of *limiting* the rules cultures must share to live peacefully in a multicultural society. Freedom of religion. Of speech. Private property. Free markets. Rule of law.

(And really it was the Anglosphere as a whole that beat back totalitarianism in the 20th Century.)

If you can't buy into those relatively limited rules, then you're a problem. And much of the Islamic world just doesn't buy into it, either there, or when they come to Western countries.

But who here is having a lot of problems with their Japanese neighbors? The Chinese? South Koreans?

More importantly, leavening insane suicidal Whitey with some Southeast Asia could go beyond being "not a problem" to having benefits we need. Asians don't feel guilty about being born Asian.

Blogger Buybuydandavis July 14, 2017 12:12 AM  

Jack wrote:

3) So the definition of "nation" is not arbitrary. It is a question of naming something that actually exists in nature and defining its characteristics, which in this case are common blood, common religion, common language, and common culture. This has been the working definition of nationhood for 2500 years in the West, going back to why the Athenians and Spartans decided to team up against the Persians.


3) Your definitions should never be arbitrary. Either you describe actual usage at a point in time, or you create *to the purpose* concepts and give them a name during a discussion. The concepts you define may or may not have referents in the world. They may be perfectly well formed, but not have referents in the world.

There are many different ways to conceptualize world history. Nation is useful, but hardly the be all and end of predictive models of world history. How about families, tribes, city states, empires, confederations, languages, castes, class, guilds, corporations,... And 2500 years? Why? The vast majority of that sucked. At least compared to now, by my values. Slavery, poverty, disease, tyranny, subjection, war. Not a picnic. I'm not interested in emulating that. Or the last 100,000 years. I want to preserve the some values I see in Western culture. Those may not be the same as what you want to preserve.

This gets to the "to the purpose" aspect. I'd like to see freedom and prosperity continue and expand, particularly for the US. What kind of politics best achieves that?

Could be that the only way to achieve that is through a polity identical to Nation_VD. But that's the part to be proven. And clearly it's not in the short run, because the US is multi ethnic and has been for a long time.

But it doesn't seem that Vox is aimed at that purpose at all. He seems to think he has a world historical model that requires analysis in terms of Nations_VD, and this model predicts the Alt-Right is inevitable, and that only a model based on Nations_VD can successfully tell us that inevitability. Maybe there is a further claim that a state built on Nation_VD is the only type that can be prosperous "in the long run". I'm skeptical that he has validated the predictive power of such a model. Further, people asserting that their concepts are the only way to successfully model the world have a very poor track record. But who knows.

If you have an argument about the inevitability of the Alt-Right, or of how it is the preferential politics to support, I'd be interested. Maybe you could just elaborate on how the use of Nation_VD is somehow necessary for something.

Blogger Buybuydandavis July 14, 2017 12:15 AM  

tz wrote:@89 BuyBuyDanDavis - I didn't know he was for sale. Is there a price or opening bid?

Very old branding. I've stuck with it.

Blogger Matthew Funk July 14, 2017 12:37 AM  

This comment is severely off topic and I don't even know anything about the 153 comments that precede mine. I just want to draw attention to rootbocks.com. I am not affiliated with them in any way besides giving them a 50 dollar donation to improve their site. It was signal boosted on altright.com but it doesn't appear to have done much in the way of donations. Every alt-righter knows the value of alternative crowdfunding platforms and this seems like it has the hope of being a real game changer. Go check it out. If this is considered in violation of forum rules, I apologize. I won't repeat this act if that would be preferred. I don't intend this as spam advertisement, but if it is seen as such, I will erase it and not reoffend.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 14, 2017 1:03 AM  

@Buybuydandavis
You reallya re not very smart.
Within 20 years, we will be shooting at each other.
All empires are multi-ethnic. Without exception. There is no way to create expand or maintain an empire on a monoethnic basis. From the British Empire and Napoleonic France all the way back to Darius and the Pharaohs, empires are of nature multi-ethnic.
And living in the power center of an empire at the height of its power is usually very pleasant. There's relative safety, lots of diverting entertainment, plenty of money around.
And then it breaks, and the killing starts.
The US Empire is on the verge of breakdown.
We're not talking here about what society we'd like to live in compared to the current situation. We're talking about what we can save and how to do so. The Left has ruined many of the cultural bases of our former society, and there is no common basis to work together, nor any agreement on whether to revive them or try to make something new.
The inevitable result will be ethnic enclaves, where people who share culture are able to gather together and defend themselves.

This is the inevitable migration to the alt-Right that Vox is talking about, not some racist political movement.

Blogger Buybuydandavis July 14, 2017 1:14 AM  

Thucydides wrote:

If California is a model of the Progressive future, their end state will resemble Feudalism, with themselves in the positions of the Feudal lords and masses of peons slaving away to keep them in the style they are accustomed to. The deliberate destruction of the education system ensures that middle class children are illiterate, innumerate and ignorant of history, and are unequipped to challenge the corporatist system through merit (they will have neither the technical skills nor the ability to "read" the social behaviour codes which define the "aristocracy".



Yep. It's already largely true. Hereditary ruling class. Very "diverse". But they live in the same areas, go to the same schools, know each other, and marry between each other.

And the cues aren't really that subtle. NPR talk, right views, right word usage, right emotional tone. If you don't walk and talk like them, you're screwed. They are very conscious of their kind, and very biased in favor of them.

That's some of the visceral hatred for Trump. He doesn't speak as they do. It infuriates them that their brand is not running the show. It's silly. He was prep school and Ivy League. He's not a bumpkin.

just you wait enry iggins, just you wait!

Anonymous Just another commenter July 14, 2017 2:03 AM  

If the US is a "Proposition Nation," then what, precisely, is the proposition?
When do people declare for, or against, it?
What do they sign?
What are the obligations and duties of citizens?
What are the punishments for failure to fulfill one's part of the proposition bargain?
How are people who abuse the rights and privileges of others punished?
How do we strip the citizenship of residents whom do not support the proposition?

Blogger Matamoros July 14, 2017 2:39 AM  

I wonder if it would would benefit us to help the left expand the scope of the term "alt-right" rather than fight it.

How about a new meme against the idiots you run into about all the SJW lies and b.s. Democrating

As in, "Ah, you're just democrating again."

Anonymous Carlos Danger July 14, 2017 2:39 AM  

@140: excellent post and gets straight to the heart of the matter. Charlemagne also introduced serfdom as a reform to eliminate slavery. This story dovetails nicely with that reform. Vikings were also heavily involved in this trade, with the Jews being the middle men and dealers. It is a principle reason for the exile of the Jews from Spain as well. E. Michael Jones has also written on this subject.

Anonymous Carlos Danger July 14, 2017 2:49 AM  

Andon:

if you had a pair, you would know women instinctively want to be led by a strong high status male. Voting never enters their minds until someone subversive puts it there. Knock them up and get them making goo goo noises with children and all your problems with them will go away. They are by far happiest that way. The current pathology comes from having this avenue of happiness taken from them while they are taught to think their most basic physiological needs are evil. This is why I don't take Europe seriously anymore. They set the example for this mentality.

Anonymous I guess we're doing this again July 14, 2017 3:14 AM  

But in the end, so long as you continue to deny that a nation is a group of people related by blood, language, and tradition, and deny that the West is a civilization constructed by, of, and for European Christians, you will end up precisely where the Left is, because a first step into falsehood is always followed by a second, and a third, as your perspective increasingly comes into conflict with observable events.

European Christians, oh yeah, I remember this.

If a nation is related by blood, language and tradition, then race mixing with class equivalents who speak proper English is the more or less the same as bearing Thomas Jefferson's cloned children.

In any event, VD missed the point. The Alt-right has a publicity problem. Currently the Alt-right encompasses every spectrum from Alt-Genocide to Alt-You Need to Fit In. It doesn't really matter how many languages you translate your manifesto into. It's still a manifesto. And, ironically, the people most receptive of Western Civilization Ideals are the least likely to buy into manifestos.

Of course, the Alt-right has an answer to that. "Anybody who doesn't agree with me is a cuck." We used to call them traitors, but treason is currently highly popular at both ends of the political spectrum, so we revert to sexual denouncements because sex has become valued above all other human attributes.

But in the end, it's all about marketing, isn't it? That thing is not this thing I like, therefore A is not-A, and thus I have to take to the streets to fight A.

I bet most of the Alt-right blowhards have spent little to no time in environments more racially diverse than a Puccini opera audience.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 14, 2017 3:51 AM  

Tuatha, you're still a a gamma, you're wrong, but you refuse to consider the possibility.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 14, 2017 4:33 AM  

I guess we're doing this again wrote:I bet most of the Alt-right blowhards have spent little to no time in environments more racially diverse than a Puccini opera audience.
Then you'd be wrong.
Because we don't match your preconceptions. The more time a person has spent in the vicinity of Diversity, the more likely he is to be alt-Right.

I spent a memorable 6 months working on a crab processing boat in Alaska. I was one of five White guys. The other 150 or so were mostly Mexican, Pinoy, Chicano and Vietnamese.
Diversity + Proximty = War is not a slogan to me. It's observed reality.

Anonymous Namecalling remains the same July 14, 2017 4:33 AM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Tuatha, you're still a a gamma, you're wrong, but you refuse to consider the possibility.

Sorry, I should have noted that cuck/gamma are interchangeable.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 14, 2017 4:36 AM  

No they are separate things. A cuck is a person who bends the knee and pulls the forelock to all the conventional Liberal Pieties, but wishes to get raped a little slower.
A Gamma is a person whose ego is so fragile they cannot admit error, and so never improve.

Granted, they both describe you, but so do words like moronic, low-T, whiny and bitch.

Anonymous But thanks for proving my point July 14, 2017 4:39 AM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:I guess we're doing this again wrote:I bet most of the Alt-right blowhards have spent little to no time in environments more racially diverse than a Puccini opera audience.

Then you'd be wrong.

Because we don't match your preconceptions. The more time a person has spent in the vicinity of Diversity, the more likely he is to be alt-Right.

I spent a memorable 6 months working on a crab processing boat in Alaska. I was one of five White guys. The other 150 or so were mostly Mexican, Pinoy, Chicano and Vietnamese.

Diversity + Proximty = War is not a slogan to me. It's observed reality.


Your 6 months is notable only because A) you had to go to Alaska for diversity and, B) 6 months.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft July 14, 2017 4:41 AM  

@161. I bet most of the Alt-right blowhards have spent little to no time in environments more racially diverse than a Puccini opera audience.

You'd be wrong. In fact you'd be wrong in a diametrically opposed fashion.

I for one have served in the military (extremely dieverse, even in the areas that are more restricted because of higher test requirements...) and lived in such places as Wyoming (probably the closest to the left I've ever been, due to the only noticeable diversity there being of Mexican heritage, but even then, everyone knew the latinos were comparatively violent, what with them ALWAYS being the perpetrators of the occasional stabbing...), Hawaii (about as dieverse as it can get, particularly in the vicinity of Pear Harbor, the only things missing are American Indians and [actual] Hawaiians, regardless of how many Polynesians and Samoans lie and say they are Hawaiian natives) and San Antonio.

The extent of my racially realistic attitude is directly proportional to my time spent amidst dieversity. First hand experience tells me that (on average, and by a wide margin) blacks are dumb and violent, latinos are violent and sly, asians are smart and jews are sly and just smart enough to get not only themselves into trouble, but all the other jews as well.

By and large, you'll find my pattern to effectually repeat through most of the intellectual denizens of this blog. The more experience they have with dieversity, the more extreme their views due to the greater experience they have to direct their opinions.

As to Cuck, it's not only sexual. It's saying that a male is unmanly, and indeed, weak and psychologically pathetic to the point that he may be ousted in the ways that matter most, indeed, even within his own domain. The sexuality of it provokes most easily those who are hedonistically tied to the sexual, those most decadent with the hedonism of the age, thus resulting directly in its effectiveness as an insult.

And before you continue with cuck being ineffective versus women... in all honesty, the majority (if not, perhaps, all) of women have no business voting or holding political office anyway.

Anonymous Yes, this remains the point July 14, 2017 4:51 AM  

Benjamin Kraft wrote:@161. I bet most of the Alt-right blowhards have spent little to no time in environments more racially diverse than a Puccini opera audience.
I for one have served in the military (extremely dieverse, even in the areas that are more restricted because of higher test requirements...) and lived in such places as Wyoming (probably the closest to the left I've ever been, due to the only noticeable diversity there being of Mexican heritage, but even then, everyone knew the latinos were comparatively violent, what with them ALWAYS being the perpetrators of the occasional stabbing...), Hawaii (about as dieverse as it can get, particularly in the vicinity of Pear Harbor, the only things missing are American Indians and [actual] Hawaiians, regardless of how many Polynesians and Samoans lie and say they are Hawaiian natives) and San Antonio.


Wyoming (probably the closest to the left I've ever been, due to the only noticeable diversity there being of Mexican heritage

This is clearly a joke.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft July 14, 2017 4:55 AM  

@168. This is clearly a joke.

No.

You are clearly a moron.

If you had a single thought in your empty head, you'd have realized I included Wyoming for contrast. The annual passing black person (in the state) has often been heard remarking upon the fact that they are the only black person in the state. The same goes for Asian, Jewish, Indian, or whatever have you (except for latinos).

Blogger Benjamin Kraft July 14, 2017 4:56 AM  

And yes, it was the closest to the left I've ever been, by far.

That does not mean that I was ever particularly close to the left.

Anonymous This has to be a come on, but I'm willing July 14, 2017 4:59 AM  

Benjamin Kraft wrote:And yes, it was the closest to the left I've ever been, by far.

That does not mean that I was ever particularly close to the left.


Wyoming is where you met the far left?

Are you the reincarnated soul of Bing Crosby?

Blogger Benjamin Kraft July 14, 2017 5:09 AM  

@171. Wyoming is where you met the far left?

What part of "That does not mean that I was ever particularly close to the left." are you physiologically incapable of understanding, and why do you think it has anything whatsoever to do with persons other than myself on the left?

Anonymous It's not like I made it up. July 14, 2017 5:15 AM  

Benjamin Kraft wrote:@171. Wyoming is where you met the far left?

What part of "That does not mean that I was ever particularly close to the left." are you physiologically incapable of understanding, and why do you think it has anything whatsoever to do with persons other than myself on the left?


and lived in such places as Wyoming (probably the closest to the left I've ever been, due to the only noticeable diversity there being of Mexican heritage, but even then, everyone knew the latinos were comparatively violent, what with them ALWAYS being the perpetrators of the occasional stabbing...)

You said it.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft July 14, 2017 5:30 AM  

@173. You're proving not only that you didn't understand, but that you're still incapable. Since you're still totally occupied Dunning-Krugering yourself into delusions of cephalic possession, let me spell it out for you.

"probably the closest to the left I've ever been". I. Not the latinos or other races being leftist, but ME MYSELF BEING CLOSE TO THE LEFT SIDE OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM IN MY OWN THOUGHTS AND HABITS.

Blogger Buybuydandavis July 14, 2017 5:31 AM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:
Within 20 years, we will be shooting at each other.


Maybe.

Maybe Kurzweil is right, and we'll all be software based and living in the cloud by the late 2030s.

It's the people claiming the inevitability of their predictions that bear the burden of proof.

Prediction is hard.

But I bet Ray has done a lot more to validate the predictive accuracy of his models than you have.

http://www.kurzweilai.net/futurism-the-dawn-of-the-singularity-a-visual-timeline-of-ray-kurzweils-predictions

Blogger Benjamin Kraft July 14, 2017 5:32 AM  

And yes, it is exactly like you made it up. What I said was clear. The assumption you attempted to force onto it clearly does not fit, and never did. This is a good example of you being delusional.

Anonymous Even if you're right, you come across as assholes. July 14, 2017 5:36 AM  

Benjamin Kraft wrote:@173. You're proving not only that you didn't understand, but that you're still incapable. Since you're still totally occupied Dunning-Krugering yourself into delusions of cephalic possession, let me spell it out for you.

"probably the closest to the left I've ever been". I. Not the latinos or other races being leftist, but ME MYSELF BEING CLOSE TO THE LEFT SIDE OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM IN MY OWN THOUGHTS AND HABITS.


This is a prime example of why the Alt-right sounds like lunatics.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft July 14, 2017 5:37 AM  

@175. Singularity believers are far more delusional than their critics in all cases I'm aware of.

"Here, let me design a god for myself and program it with unbreakable loyalty to myself, even though it's smarter, faster, stronger and better adapted to the natural world than I am. Surely nothing can go wrong!" -Every Singularity hopeful ever.

Apply "If anything can go wrong, it will."

Then realize that we have yet to come anywhere near a self-replicating machine, let alone a self-improving one. This tends to make even the Dune (machine domination) scenario improbable from a realistic present perspective, let alone "we'll all be software based and living in the cloud by the late 2030s." Which is absurd on several levels.

Blogger SacrificialLamb July 14, 2017 5:38 AM  

[quote="92. Billy Ray"]oh please, vox playing semantic word games again. there is little to no difference between the left, the alt lite, the alt right etc. because you are all just versions of the left. nazi, socialist, communist, social democrat etc etc ARE ALL LEFT IDEOLOGIES and you folks are just picking and choosing from the a la carte menu to fit whatever thing is blowing smoke up your butt today. and because you pick option B instead of A you act like you are completely different and you're not[/quote]

You think there's no difference between leftists and the Alt-Right?

The Alt-Right doesn't physically assault and curbstomp strangers based upon whom they might have voted for. Leftists have done that.

The Alt-Right does not set neighborhoods on fire. Leftists have done that.

The Alt-Right does not run around, causing property damage. But leftists have done that.

The Alt-Right hasn't gotten people fired or kicked out of college for having the wrong political opinion. But leftists have done that.

The Alt-Right hasn't campaigned against free speech, or against personal property rights, or against the right to have your own business. But leftists have done exactly that.

Leftist college professors have actually flunked students for having the wrong opinion. We'll never see the Alt-Right doing anything like that.

You're being deliberately disingenuous here. Don't do that.

[quote="161. I guess we're doing this again"]I bet most of the Alt-right blowhards have spent little to no time in environments more racially diverse than a Puccini opera audience.[/quote]

I won't go into detail on my personal life situation, but I will say this. I live in a "diverse" neighborhood, with lots of blacks around....and I'll be brutally honest. I hate it. I'm miserable. Maybe I'm racist. All I know is that I wasn't "racist" before I moved here. I now understand that I need to live next to white people for peace of mind, and I have learned this the hard way. If that makes me #LiterallyHitler, then I am at peace with it.

Anonymous I read this. July 14, 2017 5:40 AM  

Benjamin Kraft wrote:@175. Singularity believers are far more delusional than their critics in all cases I'm aware of.

"Here, let me design a god for myself and program it with unbreakable loyalty to myself, even though it's smarter, faster, stronger and better adapted to the natural world than I am. Surely nothing can go wrong!" -Every Singularity hopeful ever.

Apply "If anything can go wrong, it will."

Then realize that we have yet to come anywhere near a self-replicating machine, let alone a self-improving one. This tends to make even the Dune (machine domination) scenario improbable from a realistic present perspective, let alone "we'll all be software based and living in the cloud by the late 2030s." Which is absurd on several levels.


Yep.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft July 14, 2017 5:42 AM  

@177. I'm literally the a**hole because I finally penetrated your nigh impregnable skull. This is exactly why you're going to die out, because you're going to try to pull this with someone far less patient and self-controlled than I. You'll try this against one of the point-blank-bandwagon-follower instant low-IQ footsoldiers who somehow got ahold of weaponry and is itching to use it on someone unarmed and of similar intelligence... namely you.

Where everyone sees leftist idiots with violent streaks, I see low-IQ opportunists who don't care who they kill as long as they're on the strong side while doing it.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft July 14, 2017 5:44 AM  

It's your own vainglory ego-trip that'll kill you just as much as the low-IQ brute with the machete, Tuatha.

Anonymous You'll never teach these morons to shoot strait. July 14, 2017 5:44 AM  

Benjamin Kraft wrote:@177. I'm literally the a**hole because I finally penetrated your nigh impregnable skull. This is exactly why you're going to die out, because you're going to try to pull this with someone far less patient and self-controlled than I. You'll try this against one of the point-blank-bandwagon-follower instant low-IQ footsoldiers who somehow got ahold of weaponry and is itching to use it on someone unarmed and of similar intelligence... namely you.

Where everyone sees leftist idiots with violent streaks, I see low-IQ opportunists who don't care who they kill as long as they're on the strong side while doing it.


Behold, the Alt-right.

Blogger Cail Corishev July 14, 2017 5:45 AM  

You're proving not only that you didn't understand, but that you're still incapable.

It's not trying to understand. It's trying to get you to chase the stick of, "Prove that you have a good reason for your racist Alt-Right beliefs." It doesn't actually believe any of the stuff it's saying, or care what your responses are, as you can see.

I for one have spent virtually no time around non-whites in person. So what? Only a solipsistic nitwit or a troll would think that means I can't know what it would be like. I don't have the slightest interest in justifying anything to either one.

Blogger VD July 14, 2017 5:49 AM  

I bet most of the Alt-right blowhards have spent little to no time in environments more racially diverse than a Puccini opera audience.

You lose. I am tri-racial and have lived in Japan and a number of other countries for nearly twice as long as I ever lived in the USA. I also speak at least a modicum of five different languages, six if you count regional dialects.

Mike Cernovich lived in Asia, then in Europe, before returning to California with his Persian wife.

Your rhetoric has no chile.

Anonymous Now I'm completely confused July 14, 2017 5:50 AM  

Cail Corishev wrote:You're proving not only that you didn't understand, but that you're still incapable.

It's not trying to understand. It's trying to get you to chase the stick of, "Prove that you have a good reason for your racist Alt-Right beliefs." It doesn't actually believe any of the stuff it's saying, or care what your responses are, as you can see.

I for one have spent virtually no time around non-whites in person. So what? Only a solipsistic nitwit or a troll would think that means I can't know what it would be like. I don't have the slightest interest in justifying anything to either one.


I thought that guy was a troll. Are you suggesting he's for real?

Anonymous Are you more Mexican or more Indian? July 14, 2017 5:54 AM  

VD wrote:I bet most of the Alt-right blowhards have spent little to no time in environments more racially diverse than a Puccini opera audience.

You lose. I am tri-racial and have lived in Japan and a number of other countries for nearly twice as long as I ever lived in the USA. I also speak at least a modicum of five different languages, six if you count regional dialects.

Mike Cernovich lived in Asia, then in Europe, before returning to California with his Persian wife.

Your rhetoric has no chile.


Shit, son, I'm triracial.

You're the only one that gives a shit.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft July 14, 2017 5:58 AM  

It's definitely a troll. A Tuatha-shaped troll.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft July 14, 2017 6:03 AM  

Behold, "Ihaveanewnameineverypostyetthey'realllies", semi-professional repositioner of goal posts.

Blogger Stilicho July 14, 2017 6:05 AM  

Cuckservatives accusing the Alt-Right of being SJW"s? Hmmmm, I seem to recall formulating a third law on this very blog... oh yeah...

Anonymous This will be fun. July 14, 2017 6:05 AM  

I'll happily accept the moniker of troll so long as we can all agree that Benjamin Kraft's entire experience of other cultures were derived from living in Wyoming.

Anonymous This is what a gimme looks like July 14, 2017 6:09 AM  

And Cail Corishev's experience from living in Alaska.

Anonymous This is just for fun. July 14, 2017 6:13 AM  

Or VD's experience from his reservation.

Anonymous Mr. Rational July 14, 2017 8:14 AM  

@178  It doesn't have to be brighter than you to take most of the jobs in society.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-aqi3g9_6k

@179  Ugly excuse for actual quoting.  If you can't click the comment-number and get the built-in HTML, use <i><em>...</em></i> to DIY.

Anonymous andon July 14, 2017 9:01 AM  

I bet most of the Alt-right blowhards have spent little to no time in environments more racially diverse than a Puccini opera audience.

and what difference would that make?

i dont need to live in a black neighborhood to figure out who's committing violent crime at 3-4x the rate. i dont need to live in a mexican community to know who has a problem with drunk driving and diddling underage girls

Anonymous Grayman July 14, 2017 9:15 AM  

andon wrote:I bet most of the Alt-right blowhards have spent little to no time in environments more racially diverse than a Puccini opera audience.

and what difference would that make?

i dont need to live in a black neighborhood to figure out who's committing violent crime at 3-4x the rate. i dont need to live in a mexican community to know who has a problem with drunk driving and diddling underage girls



HA, the ones who have had to live in close contact with "diversity" will also be the most rabid, diehard segregationists you'll find, since they have had to sample the lovely impacts of "diversity" first hand.

Anonymous andon July 14, 2017 9:15 AM  

btw i didnt need to live in a mexican neighborhood to get attacked by 3 random spics either, just needed to sit under a tree on the side of the river and mind my own business.

you wonder why people hate blacks and browns?

Anonymous Rocklea July 14, 2017 9:19 AM  

The women voting thing.
Voting should be restricted to married couples(man and woman, FFS why do I have to write that) with children and home ownership/mortgage. One vote. Works on so many levels. Put the family at the centre.

Anonymous Grayman July 14, 2017 9:23 AM  

Benjamin Kraft wrote:
@161. I bet most of the Alt-right blowhards have spent little to no time in environments more racially diverse than a Puccini opera audience.
I for one have served in the military (extremely dieverse, even in the areas that are more restricted because of higher test requirements...)



The whole I know minorities in the military and they are great! is idiotic. The military has en effective IQ lower limit of 85 through ASVAB testing.

https://saboteur365.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/iq-by-ethnicity-and-sweet-spot-of-crime.jpg

That instantly removes the lower IQ half the population of minorities. Further the military has enforced behavior standards and as such cannot be considered representative of any one population.

Anonymous Grayman July 14, 2017 9:26 AM  

@198 Rocklea

That how the romans used to do it. Only the "head of household" was allowed to vote. You can sidestep a lot of the emotional response to removing female voting by simply changing it to "head of household".

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