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Thursday, September 07, 2017

Legal update

First, as I pointed out in tonight's Darkstream, I am not suing Gab. I repeat, I am not suing Gab and there is no reason to do so. That being said, Gab has already gone into lockdown mode, as evidenced by Andrew Torba's recent "bring it on" video and Utsav's recent post asking me not to call him.

In other words, they are not acceding to my request for the personal information of the three users responsible for the defamation, which means that we will have to force their compliance through the legal process. The Legal Legion of Evil is already aware of this and will begin the process next week.

I respect Gab's right to run their business as they see fit. But there is no way that any responsible parent will permit such baseless and reprehensible accusations to stand uncontested, and so the Legal Legion and I will be pursuing this matter until the defamation is removed and the @dantheman10, @GTKRWN, and @Fabian_Nazism are forced to answer for their defamatory actions.

If you don't understand why I'm doing this, these three examples might help you understand.
  • https://gab.ai/Fabian_Nazism/posts/11749651
  • https://gab.ai/GTKRWN/posts/11748825
  • https://gab.ai/dantheman10/posts/11773072
In the meantime, if you follow me on social media, you can do so on Twitter, as I will not be using Gab until the defamation is removed and policies are instituted that can be reasonably expected to prevent similar incidents in the future.

And if you're a lawyer who is interested in joining the Legal Legion, shoot me an email. We still have 40 states that require coverage. If you think I am overreacting, I suggest you consider the recent examples set by Milo Yiannopoulos and Julian Assange.

This is compounded by my level-headed analyses of the alt-right, which has led media organization after media organization to brand me a “white nationalist”—almost always followed by a groveling apology to me and a public retraction after my lawyers get in touch.
- Milo Yiannopoulos, Dangerous

As violence broke out, Arreguin returned to Twitter to half-heartedly proclaim, “Violence and destruction is not the answer.” The following morning he put out a statement condemning the violence, while also condemning me as a white nationalist. My lawyers forced him to retract and apologize.
- Milo Yiannopoulos, Dangerous

An analyst on our air earlier today asserted that Julian Assange was a pedophile, and regrets saying it. In fact, CNN has no evidence to support that assertion... We regret the error.
- CNN

Labels: ,

236 Comments:

1 – 200 of 236 Newer› Newest»
Blogger Ken Prescott September 07, 2017 9:32 PM  

If those guys were any more Gamma, people standing next to them would be turning into green roid ragers over being mildly annoyed...

Blogger Hazel Motes September 07, 2017 9:36 PM  

LOL okay you fucking drama queen. This totally doesn't reek of a homosexual hissy fit, I totally believe now that you're not a closet case. Well done.

Blogger John Morris September 07, 2017 9:38 PM  

You do realize you just fed the trolls, right? They are giggling like schoolgirls.

Everyone in the public eye gets far worse that any of that junior league stuff slung at em daily. You don't have to imagine what is in the God Emperor's twitter, you can read most of it.

There IS a line, but that stuff ain't nowhere near worth the money you are about to flush though.

Anonymous Albert September 07, 2017 9:41 PM  

Right, 'cause being falsely labeled a pedophile doesn't threaten all sorts of legal nastiness in the future. Yep, just VD overreacting.

Here's a clue: SJWs may think its okay to kiddie-diddle, but people who aren't members of the infernal lowerarchy are horrified and disgusted by the practice.

Blogger VD September 07, 2017 9:41 PM  

You do realize you just fed the trolls, right? They are giggling like schoolgirls.

That's nice. The lawyers aren't. Gab isn't.

Read Milo's book. He's done this many times. Julian Assange's lawyers just forced CNN to publicly apologize for exactly the same defamation. This is par for the course.

Blogger maniacprovost September 07, 2017 9:41 PM  

Sadly, it's logical for them not to have any contact with you if they're potentially going to be subpoena'd in a lawsuit.

It's also logical to file a defamation suit against anyone who accuses you of a crime (or pedophilia, Naziism, or homeschooling, in jusrisdictions where those are treated as crimes). If you failed to sue them, it could be held against you. Not per the letter of English/US law, I don't think, but it's still much safer to sue.

Blogger Hazel Motes September 07, 2017 9:45 PM  

Imagine if Dr Evil lived inside a volcano and instead of plotting world domination he just sued the internet for letting people call him a gay retard. This is VD. Though to be fair, Dr Evil was far less gay in appearance and demeanour.

Blogger Ken Prescott September 07, 2017 9:49 PM  

Pointing out that Again and company have some interesting connections brings out the trolls like mentioning Comet Ping Pong Pizza does.

Blogger Lazarus September 07, 2017 9:52 PM  

This is all a normal progression of events that happen when settling a frontier.

Sheep men versus cattle herders. Tribalists versus Legalists. Railroaders versus everybody.

All succumbs to administrative convenience. Jesse James gets shot by Robert Ford.

It is inevitable. You WILL be assimilated.

Blogger dh September 07, 2017 9:52 PM  

Right, gab is going to buckle because if they don't the whole site will be shutdown. It will be over. They will release whatever info they have.

This is the price for "safe harbor". If you publish user generated content the cost is that you have to assist people who want to take legal action against those users for their content. If you don't assist, then you are not entitled to safe harbor, and instead you are a publisher, and have personal responsibility for what is published. Those are the two choices.

Anonymous Looking Glass September 07, 2017 9:53 PM  

Explains the testy scope from Andrew as well.

And, as Vox alluded to, I think this will actually valuable to both parties. It also has the benefit of freezing the 3 defamers in place, as the "Normal" situation of them just being banned & spammed would actually encourage them to continue.

It's also a good dry run for eventual issues as it relates to foreign Governments. That one is going to be even more dicey.

Blogger John Morris September 07, 2017 9:54 PM  

VD wrote:Julian Assange's lawyers just forced CNN to publicly apologize for exactly the same defamation. This is par for the course.

CNN is a slightly bigger target, capable of slightly more damage to ones reputation, with somewhat larger pockets. They have lawyers who knew they were busted cold and thus would settle, even if they didn't settle there was enough money on the table to cover legal expenses.

How much do you think an average Internet troll has? Yea. Even if you 'win' against those accounts you lose. Even the prospect of wiping out gab wouldn't promise to net enough to get top notch lawyers interested in taking it for a piece of the action.

But if it makes ya happy, can't put a dollar price on that.

Anonymous Shower Thots September 07, 2017 9:55 PM  

Just curious..
What do you think is the likelihood Anglin will partly build his case off of Mussolini? Or will he go the "NatSoc is totally unique and separate from Fascism" route?

Blogger Lazarus September 07, 2017 9:56 PM  

Really, it is not that hard. There are so many things that can be discussed in an edifying manner that are being subverted by pubescent angst and sophomore hi-jinks.

So much more can be accomplished without these immature obsessions.

Blogger Sevron September 07, 2017 9:57 PM  

What on Earth makes you think Vox would do this for the money?

Blogger VD September 07, 2017 9:58 PM  

Explains the testy scope from Andrew as well.

In fairness to him, I should not have given any warning to @GTKRWN or mentioned @a in any way. I thought I was being helpful and reducing the likelihood of dragging Gab into it, but I failed to account for how seriously committed to free speech he is. I don't blame him for being annoyed.

That being said, you know me. I am patient and the Legion is tireless.

Blogger S1AL September 07, 2017 9:58 PM  

Is Morris a peculiarly tedious concern troll or a well-meaning nitwit? It's hard to tell sometimes.

Blogger VD September 07, 2017 10:00 PM  

How much do you think an average Internet troll has? Yea. Even if you 'win' against those accounts you lose. Even the prospect of wiping out gab wouldn't promise to net enough to get top notch lawyers interested in taking it for a piece of the action.

Nothing. I have a top notch lawyer and the LLoE are formidable. None of us are in this for the money.

Blogger Lazarus September 07, 2017 10:02 PM  

John Morris wrote:How much do you think an average Internet troll has? Yea. Even if you 'win' against those accounts you lose. Even the prospect of wiping out gab wouldn't promise to net enough to get top notch lawyers interested in taking it for a piece of the action.


First, as I pointed out in tonight's Darkstream, I am not suing Gab. I repeat, I am not suing Gab and there is no reason to do so.
- VD

This is not about cash. It is about shaping the internet battlefield. Anglin has hired Cernovich's 1st Amendment lawyer for a case arising in Whitefish, Montana. We should all hope he wins that case. The fact that it is Anglin is irrelevant, because it is a case involving an SJW attack.

Blogger John Morris September 07, 2017 10:04 PM  

I'm just curious. VD is smart and has been on the Internet a sufficient time to know it is a sewer. So what has triggered this over the top reaction to what are, frankly, sub-standard trolls? Gotta be a bigger agenda, seems utterly opposed to Gab's #SpeakFreely goals and it would appear he is tagteaming with Anglin to force them off the net in their current form.

Blogger S1AL September 07, 2017 10:05 PM  

Concern troll it is.

Blogger Sevron September 07, 2017 10:05 PM  

"Just curious" is serious fag talk.

Anonymous Looking Glass September 07, 2017 10:06 PM  

@10 dh

Gab will willingly turn over the information when served. That's not really the issue. Gab is taking a hard stance on Civil vs Criminal speech. Criminal get the boot; Civil requires legal action.

I actually do see where they're coming from, and any system is going to bring up certain issues. Gab is new "design" and there's things to sort out along the way. The ICO and coming microtransactions are *game changers*, and Torba has had a rough week. (It's pretty clear one of the Anglin Collective filed the complaint to the Registrar.)

At the same time, the defamation & libel tossed at Vox aren't jokes. As Vox mentioned in the Darkstream, just the statement has very real consequences in a lot of the world. (It should be noted that some States have "Criminal Defamation" laws.) That's why Vox is responding as he is.

One issue Gab is going to run into is the first targeted Harassment campaign by someone on the service. Not just vote bots (which is against the TOS), but a lot of accounts defaming them. Stuff to work out over time. Torba & crew are sort stuck rebuilding the Internet just to have a place to post spicy memes.


@16 VD

Well, they run on the fear of your enemies, which seems endless. So, maybe you should patent a near infinite energy machine? Dark Lord Electrical?

Blogger Hazel Motes September 07, 2017 10:06 PM  

It's literally just because VD is an angry nerd. There's no great agenda at play.

Blogger Jack Vibe September 07, 2017 10:09 PM  

Reading those examples, they're far worse than I imagined when you initially wrote about this. I would love to see the look on their faces when they realize they can't hide behind the anonymity and make such claims without consequences(when that letter reaches them if they are in Texas). Best of luck in dealing with this nasty, nasty business.

Anonymous Jesse James September 07, 2017 10:11 PM  

Vox, you used to call people pedophiles as an insult. And you openly bragged about it on the Daily Shoah when you were a guest.

What's the difference now? This is a genuine question.

Blogger Abyssus Invocat September 07, 2017 10:11 PM  

A suggestion from a non-American lawyer: spend resources uncovering the identities and linking them, then sue in the UK or NZ where the defamation laws are plaintiff friendly and the penalties are huge.

Blogger JACIII September 07, 2017 10:15 PM  

That's what they said about 4chan

Blogger ZhukovG September 07, 2017 10:16 PM  

Better to douse this while it's small and easily managed.

Blogger tz September 07, 2017 10:19 PM  

If Gab won't voluntarily release the details, will you sue Gab or not (or whom will you sue to obtain the data?

Blogger tz September 07, 2017 10:20 PM  

Though if the same libels appear on Twitter, Facebook, Google Plus, and on whatever thing the forum at Daily Stormer on the darkweb, what will happen?

Anonymous AZFloyd September 07, 2017 10:22 PM  

I hope VD, you got some counsel that advised that this could be opening a big can of worms. If VD is determined to be a public figure (assuming these are US litigants upon which VD can get in personum jurisdiction), VD is going to have to prove actual malice. One defense is the truth. So should the litigants be able to mount a defense (a big if, but one that must be considered) , they would be entitled to depose Mr. Beale and ask all sorts of unsavory questions beyond that scope of defimation lawsuit.

I'd be pissed at being called a pedophile too. Just be careful Dark Lord and listen to your counsel.

Blogger Lazarus September 07, 2017 10:23 PM  

Hazel Motes wrote:It's literally just because VD is an angry nerd. There's no great agenda at play.

How is this different from converged Wikipedia molesting its Vox Day profile, which is one of the reasons new platforms need to be created.?

New platforms are useless if they do not address convergence. Nat Socs are a fake right convergence org.

Blogger Sevron September 07, 2017 10:23 PM  

After the last few days of comments, I doubt proving malice will be a problem.

Anonymous I'm Not A Nazi, Socialism Is Evil September 07, 2017 10:24 PM  

"So what has triggered this over the top reaction to what are, frankly, sub-standard trolls?"

If you have followed him at ALL, you KNOW he is too Machiavellian to be so surface-level and short-sighted.

Blogger Hazel Motes September 07, 2017 10:24 PM  

"molesting"? This comment has been forwarded to Wikipedia's legal team, asshole.

Blogger Lemur September 07, 2017 10:26 PM  

Social justice warriors always double down lol!

Blogger maniacprovost September 07, 2017 10:26 PM  

VD is smart ... Gotta be a bigger agenda

Lawfare could, theoretically, chill the influx of trolls on Gab without Gab compromising its free speech positions. Win-win.

Vox, you used to call people pedophiles as an insult. ... What's the difference now?

Those people are pedophiles.

Blogger John Morris September 07, 2017 10:32 PM  

I'm Not A Nazi, Socialism Is Evil wrote:If you have followed him at ALL, you KNOW he is too Machiavellian to be so surface-level and short-sighted.

Exactly. And the only explanation I can come up with that fits the fact pattern is he is engaging in lawfare with a goal of forcing his own vision of a TOS on Gab, one that would make it Twitter only censoring different dissenting opinions. Ok, Supreme Dark Lord and all, but that is pretty damned cold to do to someone he claims as a friend and ally.

Hoping events reveal a different goal.

Anonymous Anonymous September 07, 2017 10:33 PM  

It looks like Vox is crafting some object lesson regarding the nature of Free Speech.
I definitely concur that he's playing a more strategic angle on this than his current tactics reveal to us.

Anonymous Looking Glass September 07, 2017 10:34 PM  

Given the severity of potential consequences for any parent, the actual statements alone prove Malice. So that bar is already passed.

The issue isn't extracting monetary gain from the fools. As Vox said in the Darkstream, he hopes one is in the UK.

Anonymous Die Fledermaus September 07, 2017 10:35 PM  

I have no horse in this race (I am not alt-right, modern "nazis" make me giggle and I don't use gab), but this course of action is curious and uncharacteristic. This is not about "punching right" but about "punching down" - with possible collateral damage to a resource valuable to you - Not very 4GW. All the examples presented were upwards punches.

Anonymous Reenay September 07, 2017 10:36 PM  

It's pretty damn obvious what Vox is trying to do here. You people really need to read SJWAL.

Blogger Lazarus September 07, 2017 10:36 PM  

Hazel Motes wrote:"molesting"? This comment has been forwarded to Wikipedia's legal team, asshole.

oooooh, buuurn! I am referring to events that have been going on for years that most people here know about. Because you are a noob, you cannot even participate in the discussion without exposing your ignorance.

Oh, and for the superfluous insult, you are a Fopdoodle.

Blogger Hazel Motes September 07, 2017 10:39 PM  

Lazarus what the fuck happens in your head between reading and responding

Blogger Lazarus September 07, 2017 10:40 PM  

John Morris wrote:Ok, Supreme Dark Lord and all, but that is pretty damned cold to do to someone he claims as a friend and ally.

A real friend will tell you when you have spinach in your teeth.

Anonymous Looking Glass September 07, 2017 10:40 PM  

http://kellywarnerlaw.com/texas-defamation-laws/


@43 Reenay

But, then, they'd have to buy his book. :)

Blogger Lazarus September 07, 2017 10:42 PM  

Hazel Motes wrote:Lazarus what the fuck happens in your head between reading and responding

remembering.

Anonymous Looking Glass September 07, 2017 10:42 PM  

We're going to need to give Torba a "Welcome to the Dread Ilk" shirt by the end of this, haha.

Blogger Alexandros September 07, 2017 10:42 PM  

Is there something else going on here? I don't understand.

Blogger Woo September 07, 2017 10:44 PM  

Vox had to invent the term Sigma because his ego couldn't handle the fact that he is a weak loser gamma.
I hate the nazis too. But you look like a fucktard right now.

Blogger Chiva September 07, 2017 10:46 PM  

Oh, and for the superfluous insult, you are a Fopdoodle.

Dang Lazarus, you jump over calling it a queeg and went straight to Fopdoodle.

Blogger Lazarus September 07, 2017 10:47 PM  

Alexandros wrote:Is there something else going on here? I don't understand.

Shutup, Donnie.

Blogger Alexandros September 07, 2017 10:48 PM  

No, I'm serious. I don't understand what's going on here; I'd appreciate it if someone could spell it out for the low iq crowd.

Blogger Lazarus September 07, 2017 10:48 PM  

Chiva wrote:Oh, and for the superfluous insult, you are a Fopdoodle.

Dang Lazarus, you jump over calling it a queeg and went straight to Fopdoodle.


Gotta bring the Lightning.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 07, 2017 10:48 PM  

The real issue for Gab is how the expense of responding to subpoenas in civil suits compares to the cost of simply hiring moderators to delete problem posts/accounts. If they can respond to subpoenas quickly and cheaply enough, or if they don't have to respond to many subpoenas in the first place, then they won't have to alter their TOS.

Anonymous AZFloyd September 07, 2017 10:50 PM  

" the actual statements alone prove Malice. "

No, they do not. Is the intent to harm economically? Is the intent to harm reputation? Is the intent to cause emotional distress? No. One needs additional statements and/or actions which may exist. Caveat, all I am aware of are these three statements alone. Caveat #2, if course there could be some case law that says that the statements alone could be considered malice, but that has not been cited

Blogger Lazarus September 07, 2017 10:51 PM  

Alexandros wrote:No, I'm serious. I don't understand what's going on here; I'd appreciate it if someone could spell it out for the low iq crowd.

Sorry, Alexandros, it was a Big Lebowski reference. Be more specific. What exactly are you confused about?

Anonymous I'm Not A Nazi, Socialism Is Evil September 07, 2017 10:52 PM  

We don't know, because the Dark Lord's plans have not yet come to fruition, and he is too scheming to reveal until after the death blow.

But I am guessing that Clown Nazis have a similar psychological profile to SJWs, and thus, similar laws apply.

Anonymous Dan September 07, 2017 10:54 PM  

If Gab won't voluntarily release the details, will you sue Gab or not (or whom will you sue to obtain the data?


You sue a John Doe defendant, then serve a subpoena on Gab for whatever information it has on the relevant handle. Gab can file whatever objections, if any, it wants to the subpoena, but ultimately a court can order Gab to turn over the information. Then, if Gab refuses to comply with the order, the court can use its civil contempt power to enforce it (e.g., put Torba in jail until Gab turns over the information).

Blogger Apex_Predator September 07, 2017 10:55 PM  

Well damn...

Nevermind my comment from a few posts down regarding this. Sounds like you just jumped the shark. A pity, that...

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2017/09/the-three-types-of-free-speech.html#comment-135

Blogger markmclay18 September 07, 2017 10:58 PM  

Lol, one of the guys has got 5 followers. Pretty sure no reasonable person would conclude that a person with an audience of 5 people would have the clout to cause harm.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 07, 2017 10:59 PM  

@57 I doubt that the statements alone are sufficient to prove malice. Especially in light of Vox suggesting calling people pedophiles in response to being called a racist. A court could easily find that there's a reasonable basis for these insults being considered satire of a public figure, which is protected speech in the US.

Maybe Vox will get lucky and these guys will turn out to be in the UK.

Blogger Matthew September 07, 2017 11:00 PM  

Who else thinks Hazel Motes is Taylor?

Blogger Jack Ward September 07, 2017 11:00 PM  

If anything, Gab is earnest about free speech. There have to be limits, though. I just hope that shaping these limits, in Gab's case, doesn't end up with the Gab folks deciding it's all not worth the crap and bailing on the effort for something less stressful. Life may be too short to put up with it all in their view.

Blogger Student in Blue September 07, 2017 11:01 PM  

Alt-Retard, on cue, proving again what a failure rhetoric based on false dialectic is.

Blogger Lazarus September 07, 2017 11:03 PM  

Matthew wrote:Who else thinks Hazel Motes is Taylor?

That would be cool. Doesn't Nate have a picture of her tits, or am i just old and addled?

Ps Spooner went off last night and it was a full moon. Best keep track of the moon cycle.

Blogger S1AL September 07, 2017 11:04 PM  

Sometimes the only answer to zealots is to force them to make a choice between the mission and the people hiding behind them. Right now Torba can't separate the two, and that's going to be a recurring problem forever unless he's forced to differentiate.

Blogger Solaire Of Astora September 07, 2017 11:10 PM  

Pretty sad of Gab to try and embarrass you publicly instead of just accepting the call or rebuffing you via email. Making me rethink my support of the site. If they treat high profile allies this way, no one else stands a chance. And do the idiots from DS have literally nothing but vulgarity and snark? You can tell how stupid they are in every one dimensional post and comment they make.

Blogger Woo September 07, 2017 11:15 PM  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCfkVMZrSZs&feature=youtu.be

Blogger Hazel Motes September 07, 2017 11:19 PM  

Entire saga summarised in Woo's comment.

Anonymous I'm Not A Nazi, Socialism Is Evil September 07, 2017 11:19 PM  

"And do the idiots from DS have literally nothing but vulgarity and snark? You can tell how stupid they are in every one dimensional post and comment they make."

The thing is, this works out fine in the comments sections of some news websites. TRS would boast about getting National Review to accidentally ban its own regular commenters in their coordinated troll attacks. A lot of them actually think what works on Jewish journalists will work on Vox Day, which is why I've been seeing smallpox blanket Pepes.

Anonymous Charlottesvillain September 07, 2017 11:20 PM  

This is all a huge turn-off to potential alt right converts, both in a broad sense and for your preferred section. Hell, I didn't even feel like posting about it. I'm gonna go read or something instead of engaging.

Blogger Blank Spott September 07, 2017 11:28 PM  

LOL YOU FUCKING COWARD. I thought you were a big hard guy, a big intellect, and all. Turns out, you're a pussy who can't handle the bantz. You're Big Chief Barks-a-lot. Well, in the ACTUAL alt-right, Arbeit it worse than our bark! LOL Dumbass, you just took a giant shit all over yourself. And I hear tell you're an Allen Ginsberg-tier pedophile. Is that true?

LOL WHAT A FUCKING PUSSY HERE YOU GO, "dread ilk", here's your "high IQ" tuff guy. What a fag.

Blogger Alexandros September 07, 2017 11:30 PM  

Lazarus wrote:Sorry, Alexandros, it was a Big Lebowski reference. Be more specific. What exactly are you confused about?
Ah, thanks! I was wondering what's going on with the legal problem with gab; is this supposed to help them so that they're more resilient against future attacks? Thanks!

Anonymous VFM #6306 September 07, 2017 11:31 PM  

@64 I agree Matthew. Thought it before I got to your post.

Blogger Nate73 September 07, 2017 11:34 PM  

Were the people defaming Milo on twitter?

Blogger Matthew September 07, 2017 11:35 PM  

Nate's harem gallery does include an image of Taylor, but it's pretty modest.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 07, 2017 11:35 PM  

"And I hear tell you're an Allen Ginsberg-tier pedophile. Is that true?"

Sorry to disappoint, but no, you'll have to blow one of your regulars for your lunch money. Hurry, the night's still young.

Blogger tz September 07, 2017 11:35 PM  

@60 making my point. Gab will have to consume resources whatever it does. And "I didn't sue Gab, merely served a subpoena" rings hollow.
Either this will involve Gab and force it to burn resources or not.

Anonymous Superior hominid September 07, 2017 11:35 PM  

I can't see why they don't just use https://www.nearlyfreespeech.net/. Also, I've picked up ostracon.tech domain to build a registrar sympathetic to the right. Information is forthcoming.

Blogger Quicksilver75 September 07, 2017 11:39 PM  

The approach is sound. However this turns out it should help better delineate how abuse, slander & libel are controlled in social media. The sense in which social media posts are searchable & permanent makes the potential for its damage even more acute than slander by flyers, billboards, magazine & newspapers would have been decades ago.

Blogger Matt@Occidentalism.org September 07, 2017 11:49 PM  

Good luck proving that this name calling (a stretch to call it "libel") caused injury to your reputation. Your current course of action is far more injurious.

Anonymous VFM #6306 September 07, 2017 11:50 PM  

Bzzt. Not even a stretch. It is a legal code example of libel.

Blogger Paulie Boy September 07, 2017 11:52 PM  

An incredibly insecure, bi-polar, angry nerd.

Blogger Paulie Boy September 07, 2017 11:54 PM  

Voxxy the ex-pat's hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Blogger Paulie Boy September 07, 2017 11:56 PM  

Yet Vox is best buds with a homo that publicly glorifies pedophilia.

Blogger Lemur September 07, 2017 11:57 PM  

apparently the whole world is voxday.blogspot.com

Anonymous Die Fledermaus September 07, 2017 11:58 PM  

I...think I understand. It's risky, but an interesting play. The theatrics involved are unfortunate, but unavoidable. Essentially this may provide Gab with legal inoculation and a stronger position in court in the uphill battle they have against the app-stores and the registars. And I thought you were an Anti-Vaxxer. ..

Blogger Kristophr September 08, 2017 12:00 AM  

I note that the alt-Reichtards flining poo in comments have stopped calling Vox a pedo. They will call him anything but that, now.

I smell fear.

Anonymous VFM #6306 September 08, 2017 12:03 AM  

Every jurisdiction defines it differently, but libel isn't that tricky:

Usually there are 3 basic elements:
1. Defendant makes a false, defamatory statement about the plaintiff.
Example: "John Doe is a pedophile and pornographer." (John Doe is, in fact, not a pedophile and pornographer.)

2. Defendant publishes or shares the statement with a third party.
Example: the above statement is published online. Say...on Gab.

3. Defendant makes the statement with the intent to cause harm, or negligently, giving no care to the harm that was likely (or in some cases, obviously beyond reasonable doubt) to be caused.
Example: The person publishes it to attack the reputation of the target, NOT because he mistakenly believes it to be true.

The third one may sound a little tricky to prove, but it isn't. For the most part, it is like extracting a confession: the person who makes a defamatory incorrect statement with good intentions (i.e. he believed wrongly it was the truth) is going to demonstrate both those intentions and a correction. Those who make the statement in bad faith are going to be obviously guilty of it, if it makes it that far.

I don't know why people think libel never gets successfully prosecuted. It isn't rocket science. Maybe it is because, often, the suit or investigation is settled before the idiot defamer goes all the way through a trial. Most of the time, all you have to say is something akin to "I'm a lying jackass who is sorry he was mean to John Doe and everything I said about him was a lie (or, at best, incorrect)" to solve it.

But if you don't take the libeler to the wall, you end up simply the victim of defamation.

Always pursue legal action for libel (i.e. chat with a lawyer). Always. 99% of the time, it won't cost you a whole lot, and you'll make the little bastard crap his pants, and possibly even think twice in the future.

This is not legal advice. Just common sense.

Anonymous Anonymous September 08, 2017 12:04 AM  

As a public figure, and one who shitposts frequently, your chances in an American court are between slim and none. IMHO, you're being a big crybaby who can dish it out but can't take it. What if Sparklepunter Chris Kluwe had sued you when you accused him of pedophilia?

Blogger Kristophr September 08, 2017 12:06 AM  

Actual pedophiles don't sue. They just deny, and generally flee and lie low, so VD is in no danger there.

As for his chances in court, you are not a lawyer, rebelbill. Remember, IANAL is the worst kind of anal.

Blogger Matt@Occidentalism.org September 08, 2017 12:07 AM  

VFM #6306,

"In order to sue for defamation of character, it's not enough that somebody express or publish a defamatory statement. There must also be real damage caused by the statement".

http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/civil-litigation/defamation-character-lawsuit-proving-harm.html

They are going to have a field day in discovery when they find that Vox Day recommends responding to accusations of "racism" by calling those accusers "pedophiles". He has been calling them nazis, and he got called a pedophile which is an appropriate response by his own standards.

Blogger Kristophr September 08, 2017 12:10 AM  

Matt@Occidentalism.org:

If they flaunt the rods and the axe, and spend all day jew-baiting, and get pissy when someone makes fun of NaziLARPers, then denying the name "nazi" is kinda difficult. Your concern trolling is noted and laughed at.

Blogger S1AL September 08, 2017 12:11 AM  

Heh. The notion that the Reichtards would ever let this go to discover is hilarious. They are utterly terrified of being outed. As has happened so many times in the past, they'll be exposed as some combination of basement-dwelling incels, paid plants, or squishy wimps who couldn't defend a breakfast sandwich, let alone Western Civilization (looking straight at you, Occidental Observer).

Blogger Cail Corishev September 08, 2017 12:14 AM  

And do the idiots from DS have literally nothing but vulgarity and snark?

They're so, so much dumber than I ever suspected. I thought they were basically like the "ironic Nazis" on /pol/, but they make those guys look like geniuses. No wonder the Left never took them seriously, and even encourages them. They don't even understand what's going on well enough to come up with relevant insults, let alone strategies that would ever go anywhere.

I can't see why they don't just use...

Because finding hosting isn't the problem.

Blogger Matt@Occidentalism.org September 08, 2017 12:15 AM  

95. Kristophr,

If you are called a nazi, the response should be to call them a "pedophile". That is from Vox Day himself. As for being called a nazi, I note that Vox Day has been referred to as a nazi and a white supremacist in the mainstream media numerous times. Is denying it difficult?

Blogger Kristophr September 08, 2017 12:16 AM  

Interesting, Matt. Could you post proof of that statement of Vox's?

Blogger Matt@Occidentalism.org September 08, 2017 12:17 AM  

99. Kristophr,

Find it yourself. I am not going to fall for a compliance test.

Blogger Kristophr September 08, 2017 12:19 AM  

You are the person who claimed that Vox said: "If you are called a nazi, the response should be to call them a "pedophile"."

I do not believe he said that.

So that makes you a liar, or an imbecile who reposts libel. Which is it?

Blogger S1AL September 08, 2017 12:19 AM  

Rules of the Blog, Matt. Put up or shut up.

Anonymous Sharrukin September 08, 2017 12:22 AM  

http://voxday.blogspot.ca/2016/11/throw-out-oed.html

19. VD November 13, 2016 2:09 PM

How do you respond to someone that calls you a racist or other shaming word?

Call them a pedophile. Or a Satanist. Or something worse than a racist.

For the Nth time, it's NOT about making any fucking sense. How many times do I need to tell you this?

I do not understand those who hear someone babbling nonsense, then think responding by talking sense to them is somehow going to be relevant in any regard.

"But they're not a pedophile!"

So the fuck what? You're not a racist.

Anonymous User September 08, 2017 12:23 AM  

Vox has about as much of a chance of getting a guilty verdict as MacGregor had of KOing Mayweather and clearly he knows this. None of the examples he cited were of guilty verdicts after all. However, discovery is tedious, embarrassing, and expensive, and with forum shopping he can probably avoid anti-SLAPP legislation.

Blogger Matt@Occidentalism.org September 08, 2017 12:23 AM  

It was on VD's twitter (I think) but I am blocked from viewing his tweets (strange because I never interacted with him there except to retweet his tweets).

Google "those who call you racist are themselves actual or would-be pedophiles", or ask him yourself.

Blogger Matt@Occidentalism.org September 08, 2017 12:24 AM  

103. Sharrukin,

Thanks mate. That was what I was it. There is also stuff to that effect on twitter.

Blogger Alexandros September 08, 2017 12:26 AM  

@101
He did say it, but the difference is that it was based on actual truth:
https://voxday.blogspot.com/2015/09/mailvox-rhetoric-in-action.html
Not the same dynamic at all.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab September 08, 2017 12:26 AM  

If they were all plants what would they do differently?

Anonymous User September 08, 2017 12:27 AM  

However, never, ever, EVER libel or slander a man's wife, especially her sexual morals. Courts are still very old fashioned about this and you will get reamed for that one. The recent Melania case is a great example. She is as public as public figures get and she still extracted a multi-million dollar settlement when the Daily Mail merely insinuated she was a whore.

Blogger lowercaseb September 08, 2017 12:27 AM  

I have seen it, but those were folks defending pizzagate. Those were pedos or pedo-enablers...I noticed they didn't haul out their lawyers. Vox isn't a pedo...if you make that statement you better be prepared to back it up.

Blogger Kristophr September 08, 2017 12:27 AM  

Hmmm. Troubling.

Welp, I'll have to wait on Vox's response to this.

Thank you for posting proof when asked. I apologize for my response.

Anonymous Scintan September 08, 2017 12:28 AM  

It didn't take long for "We need to find alternatives to the SJW media, because of the censorship" to turn into "We demand censorship".

Blogger Hazel Motes September 08, 2017 12:28 AM  

Lmao can this saga get any more fucking retarded. VD is cooked.

Blogger S1AL September 08, 2017 12:29 AM  

So VD says, in the circumstance where someone slanders you as a racist (meaning it's not true, as noted in the comment), your respond by upping the ante.

Which is a completely different scenario from calling a Nazi-LARPer a Nazi. Don't want to be called a Nazi? Don't praise Hitler and National Socialism and talk about gassing Jews.

Blogger Kristophr September 08, 2017 12:31 AM  

No, I don't think Vox is "cooked". Yes, that comment response last year was unwise, but screaming "PEDO" when you have no evidence of such is even more unwise.

Which is why I don't do it, unless I have some evidence of such.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 08, 2017 12:31 AM  

Then there's the fact that the defamatory speech was recirculated on this blog earlier today, and Vox didn't directly dispute the statements.

That won't be interpreted as Vox acknowledging he's a pedophile, but it is evidence that he didn't think anyone would consider the claims of him being a pedophile believable. It's simply assumed that the statements are false. And it's difficult to prove damages under those circumstances.

Anonymous Ooh lol lol September 08, 2017 12:32 AM  

LOL how fucking insecure and pathetic are you when a few bored anons talking shit on Gab results in you taking legal action against them? How hypocritical are you for freaking out over being called a pedophile when you've leveled the exact same insult at others on your FAR BIGGER platform? How big of a fucking pussy are you when you pick a fight with Anglin & Co. and immediately bitch out, run and tattle to daddy Torba, only to get so butthurt when he smacks you down that you immediately call your lawyers. Dread Ilk, your leader is a tremendous faggot and a textbook gamma male whose ego is so fragile he literally can't handle being trolled at the lowest level possible. The funniest thing of all is going to be when your legal action gets smacked the fuck down and you go home hat in hand, you goddamned choad. You sat here and championed the need for a free speech platform for over a year, and yet as soon as you feel the faintest bit of heat from that fire you take your ball and go home to cry to mommy. You're a fucking joke.

Blogger Billy September 08, 2017 12:35 AM  

This is some grade A fuckery

Blogger Cail Corishev September 08, 2017 12:35 AM  

Lmao can this saga get any more fucking retarded.

I'm fairly sure it can.

Blogger Hazel Motes September 08, 2017 12:35 AM  

By "cooked" I mean his brain has short-circuited and melted down, it's slang here for that happening on large doses of amphetamine.

You cannot explain his behaviour in any other way.

Blogger S1AL September 08, 2017 12:39 AM  

"I'm fairly sure it can."

Immediately followed by accusations of drug use. Phenomenal timing.

Blogger Hazel Motes September 08, 2017 12:40 AM  

Amphetamine is common among homosexuals, it's a reasonable speculation.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 08, 2017 12:40 AM  

@114 IIRC Vox was also talking about calling someone a pedophile in a one-on-one exchange. He wasn't advising making defamatory statements on social media and then refusing to remove them. But it nevertheless muddies the waters.

Blogger Matt@Occidentalism.org September 08, 2017 12:40 AM  

111. Kristophr,

Its OK.

I am not a troll. I own virtually every book published in recent times authored by Vox Day, or published by Castilia House. I purchased them for the explicit purpose of putting money into his pocket because I support his work. I would be happy to send you my receipts if proof is required.

That said I am not a shill, which seems to be VD's favorite type of supporter. When you see something wrong, its important to speak up. Its also important not to treat someone that is pointing out problems as an enemy, as VD is doing.

If I recall correctly, VD makes an even more explicit call to libel those that call people "racist" as "pedophiles" on the podcast "the Daily Shoah" (episode #81: The White Slate).

What Vox Day is doing to himself is far, far more damaging than the trolling he got on Gab (and which was a response to smearing everyone that went to Charlottesville as a nazi because a single person out of thousands turned up with a swastika).

Anonymous CoolHand September 08, 2017 12:40 AM  

It really is amazing if you sit back and think about what they're saying for a moment.

Every single comment from the invading retards boils down to either:

1) You should feel bad because X.

OR

2) You look bad because Y.

It's nothing but surface lookz and feelz with these people.

Maybe they really ARE into the LARPing because the Swastika Panties are Hugo Boss.

Blogger Cail Corishev September 08, 2017 12:41 AM  

LOL how fucking insecure and pathetic are you when a few bored anons talking shit on Gab results in you taking legal action against them?

Careful, your fear and confusion are showing. Earlier today you were all braggadocio about how Vox was gonna get schooled, now after regrouping you're trying to shrug it off as not even worthy of mention. Did you think we wouldn't notice the shift?

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 September 08, 2017 12:41 AM  

This troll attack was orchastrated attack from Andrew Anglin. I hope you can find a way to prove it.

Anonymous Billy Bean September 08, 2017 12:42 AM  

The lady doth protest too much methinks.

Blogger Hazel Motes September 08, 2017 12:44 AM  

Vox did get schooled, by Gab. Now he's having a tantrum.

Blogger Alexandros September 08, 2017 12:44 AM  

I still have no idea what's going on; everyone on the gab/twitter is going crazy, but is it actually to help Gab in case something real happens in the future?

The old manosphere guys are slowly turning into a mob, not that it matters; it's probably not good optics for sure no matter how you look at it though. Still, the memes are already starting to flow and that probably warrants a more explicit response. Lowest common denominator types like me aren't really sure what's going on, but we see the optics as they're presented via the memes. I guess this is all connected to the anglin stuff, but it's hard to sort through, especially in the middle of a working week.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 08, 2017 12:47 AM  

"I still have no idea what's going on"

That's a good sign. It means you're well informed.

Blogger Baelzar September 08, 2017 12:48 AM  

Is this whole Gab kerfluffle some kind of test, or are you going Charles Johnson / Little Green Footballs on us?

Anonymous Casey September 08, 2017 12:49 AM  

Some attorneys have realized that this is going to be a difficult endeavor due to the revelations contained in this discussion.

Anonymous Sharrukin September 08, 2017 12:50 AM  

125. CoolHand

Maybe they really ARE into the LARPing because the Swastika Panties are Hugo Boss.

The Dark Lord and the Dread Ilk and The Legal Legion of Evil?

And you are accusing them of LARPing?

Blogger S1AL September 08, 2017 12:52 AM  

"And you are accusing them of LARPing?"

You left off "as Nazis". And also, apparently, don't know what "Live-action" means.

Anonymous Strigiformes September 08, 2017 12:52 AM  

@117 Isn't Anglin the one who had to fly overseas to try and bang underage pinoy girls? Pretty ironic the alt-retard is stooping to calling VD a pedo when their idol can't even get laid while giving sex tourism a try in the 3rd world. I even have video proof this is true too, just look at him try to flirt it's fucking embarrassing: http://www.mediafire.com/file/tgagxpu15vjhddl/andrew+anglin+jail+bait+2+%28Low%29.mp4

Anonymous Casey September 08, 2017 12:52 AM  

,....probably takes pro bono off the table.

Blogger Cail Corishev September 08, 2017 12:54 AM  

I still have no idea what's going on

That's probably because most of the people talking about it don't know either, plus some are intentionally spewing FUD, so the signal-to-noise ratio is pretty low right now.

Blogger Matt@Occidentalism.org September 08, 2017 12:54 AM  

Starting at 1:33 minutes on the Daily Shoah.

https://therightstuff.biz/2016/04/19/the-daily-shoah-81-the-white-slate/

Where Vox Day explicitly recommends the strategy of calling detractors "pedophiles". He admits that it is a rhetorical ploy meant to damage.

Anonymous Jesse James September 08, 2017 1:03 AM  

@139

the audio file seems to be broken. Working archive here: https://web.archive.org/web/20161114194041/https://radio.therightstuff.biz/2016/04/19/the-daily-shoah-81-the-white-slate/

the one caveat is that supposedly there actually was a pedophile problem with his victims. But when you make such generalized accusations, there are certainly people that don't fit the bill. Thus potential libel.

There are many aspects to this debacle that are astonishingly hypocritical

Anonymous Battlefrog September 08, 2017 1:06 AM  

Matt@Occidentalism.org wrote:Starting at 1:33 minutes on the Daily Shoah.

https://therightstuff.biz/2016/04/19/the-daily-shoah-81-the-white-slate/

Where Vox Day explicitly recommends the strategy of calling detractors "pedophiles". He admits that it is a rhetorical ploy meant to damage.


Where, exactly? I listened from 1:25 to 4:00 and he's just talking about his debate with Dr. Miller.

Blogger Matt@Occidentalism.org September 08, 2017 1:09 AM  

140. Jesse James,

Thanks for the working audio.

Yeah, this whole thing is a complete sh*t show. I don't enjoy being in the middle because I support both Vox Day and Andrew Anglin. They do different things, important things, both filling a niche. There is no need for this conflict at all.

Blogger Matt@Occidentalism.org September 08, 2017 1:09 AM  

141. Battlefrog,

Apologies. 1h 33 minutes.

Anonymous Jesse James September 08, 2017 1:10 AM  

Where, exactly? I listened from 1:25 to 4:00 and he's just talking about his debate with Dr. Miller.

Your time stamp must be jacked. It's when he's talking about the Hugo Awards

Anonymous Icicle September 08, 2017 1:11 AM  

*eats popcorn*

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 08, 2017 1:20 AM  

They do different things, important things, both filling a niche. There is no need for this conflict at all.

That's where I come down too. Alt West and Alt Reich both have their strengths and it would be awesome if we could harmoniously merge the two. The Alt West frankly needs the energy and creativity of the Alt Reich.

Anonymous Ooh lol lol September 08, 2017 1:20 AM  

The near future...Vox sits alone in his office, filled with impotent rage. He's just received word that his legal action against the Gab trolls was defeated. Nursing his wine cooler, he begins to polish his sword (not a euphemism) as he mutters under his breath something about a travesty of justice. Suddenly, his phone rings. He is greeted by a familiar voice.

"Vox. It's Torba."
"What do you want now?" Vox replies, his voice quivering, barely able to contain his rage.
"Nothing much. Just wanted to tell you that you're a huge faggot and that I'm banning you from Gab. Not because you broke any rules, but just because I can! LOL!"
*click*

Vox curses loudly and begins flailing wildly around his office, tearing books off the shelves and flinging them across the room. After a half a minute or so he collapses on the floor, tears streaming down his cheeks. "I...I just wanted to be a Dark Lord," he sobs. "And a Dark Lord can't let people make fun of him on the internet!"

The wailing continues unabated for several hours, until eventually Spacebunny is able to comfort him with a grilled cheese sandwich and a bag full of Warhammer figurines. Vox finally manages to relax a bit.

"Maybe a little television will put me in a better mood," he tells himself as he reaches for the remote. Switching on CNN, Vox settles into his chair.

From down in the kitchen below, Spacebunny hears Vox yell out, "NOOO!! It cannot be!" followed by a deafening howl of pain and indignation and the shattering of glass. She runs upstairs as quickly as she can, only to find her worst fears confirmed: the office window is broken and Vox's body lies unmoving on the ground below.

Horrified, she turns away. Over to her left, the television is still tuned into CNN while the talking heads blather on and on, but she is too deeply in shock to hear them, or to see the text of the news ticker that reads: ANDREW ANGLIN BUYS THE NEW YORK TIMES BUILDING.

Blogger Hazel Motes September 08, 2017 1:23 AM  

Nice, could work some pedo references in there though due to Vox's public reputation for it.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 08, 2017 1:23 AM  

@147 In the time you spent writing that you could have made a white baby. Or two.

Anonymous Scintan September 08, 2017 1:27 AM  

Noah B The Savage Gardener wrote:They do different things, important things, both filling a niche. There is no need for this conflict at all.

That's where I come down too. Alt West and Alt Reich both have their strengths and it would be awesome if we could harmoniously merge the two. The Alt West frankly needs the energy and creativity of the Alt Reich.


The Alt-Reich is a clown show, and everyone should run away from it. But that's not really at issue here. What's at issue here is Vox's decision making in this instance, which seems to have been poor.

Blogger S1AL September 08, 2017 1:27 AM  

"In the time you spent writing that you could have made a white baby. Or two."

You think he could force himself on a woman that quickly?

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 08, 2017 1:32 AM  

@146 Noah B
Alt West and Alt Reich both have their strengths and it would be awesome if we could harmoniously merge the two.

The alt Retards are like furry cosplayers but not as intelligent.
They can't get along with anyone, because they are retarded.
A group of 5 year olds would be more useful.

Anonymous Charlottesvillain September 08, 2017 1:33 AM  

@150

But what even is the Alt-Reich (term that only exists on this site) anymore? Vox is lashing out at Anglin, Spencer, Enoch and TRS, Identity Europa, National Vanguard. The bulk of the alt right are all li-te-ra-lly nazis now? My normal PSA: I'm a Vox fan too.

Blogger Woo September 08, 2017 1:38 AM  

lol Good job 147

Anonymous Scintan September 08, 2017 1:45 AM  

Charlottesvillain wrote:@150

But what even is the Alt-Reich (term that only exists on this site) anymore? Vox is lashing out at Anglin, Spencer, Enoch and TRS, Identity Europa, National Vanguard. The bulk of the alt right are all li-te-ra-lly nazis now? My normal PSA: I'm a Vox fan too.


I used the term in response to the person that had previously used it. I would generally state it like this:

While it's sensible, and probably essential over the long haul, for whites to vote as a block as a response to today's version of identity politics, anyone who sincerely takes a "White is right" sort of approach is an idiot, both tactically and more generally.

Anonymous Dox Vay September 08, 2017 1:45 AM  

Vox is your Dad out of jail yet?

Blogger John Morris September 08, 2017 1:46 AM  

Scintan wrote:Noah B The Savage Gardener wrote:
What's at issue here is Vox's decision making in this instance, which seems to have been poor.


Without knowing the end goal you can't judge whether the means selected are suited to attaining them. It is the inability to figure out what VD is up to that seems to be confusing people. Theories have been floated, none have been confirmed or denied.

Popcorn time.

Anonymous VFM #6306 September 08, 2017 1:50 AM  

He already addressed this accusing racist-attackers with pedophile retort in the referenced Darkstream. Maybe go watch that and cure your ignorance.

Upshot: he wouldn't advise that now, or at least would be slightly more precise on the rhetorical advice.

My take: if someone libels you racist, go ahead and libel them pedophile, as long as you are a) willing to retract and b) can accept the fairly low risk annoyance of mutual minor lawsuits.

Remember: libel isn't just calling someone a name. It is publishing it as fact.

Incidentally, Utsav's cavalier dismissal of the libel against him (that he's a beard for white supremacy) where he said "I am not calling a lawyer" got him a lot of praise.

It also really hurts his case if he later decides to correct the libel with legal action.

I don't think gab quite understands how costly the anti-marketing of libel may be against them.

Anonymous Cirdan September 08, 2017 1:51 AM  

Remember when the comments were good? Those were the days...

Anonymous VFM #6306 September 08, 2017 1:54 AM  

Anglin, Spencer, Enoch and TRS, Identity Europa, National Vanguard. The bulk of the alt right are all li-te-ra-lly nazis now?

That isn't close to the bulk of the AltRight. See the 16 Points.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 08, 2017 1:54 AM  

@159
You're just saying that as a closet Glock owner.

Anonymous Dox Vay September 08, 2017 1:54 AM  

There was a time when the comments were good? News to me.

Blogger Wolfman at Large September 08, 2017 1:56 AM  

@158 always accuse your enemy of worshipping Satan. In a world this fallen you might inadvertently be correct.

Blogger Matt@Occidentalism.org September 08, 2017 1:56 AM  

VFM #6306,

The VFM label just means that you are a non-objective shill. You guys agree to do that when you sign up for it.

I think a huge part of this problem is that Vox Day leads an army of shills on campaigns, and when he subject to criticism on other forum communities like the TRS forum, the Daily Stormer BBS, or Gab, he projects what he is doing and assumes that a coordinated campaign is being conducted against him, which in my opinion isn't the case.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents September 08, 2017 1:58 AM  

@164
I think

Nah. Not really.

Anonymous Scintan September 08, 2017 1:59 AM  

John Morris wrote:Scintan wrote:Noah B The Savage Gardener wrote:

What's at issue here is Vox's decision making in this instance, which seems to have been poor.


Without knowing the end goal you can't judge whether the means selected are suited to attaining them. It is the inability to figure out what VD is up to that seems to be confusing people. Theories have been floated, none have been confirmed or denied.

Popcorn time.


You seem to be assuming that he's playing 3D chess while everyone else is playing checkers. I doubt that is the case.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 08, 2017 2:04 AM  

@164 Not true. I'm a VFM and I've been getting hammered for my dissent for days.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 08, 2017 2:09 AM  

@150 It is a clown show, but it's definitely not all downside and it doesn't follow that we should run from them. They've been enormously successful online using trolling tactics and it's foolish to deny this (look at the energy Vox has expended against a couple of randos who called him a pedophile - this is a classic blueprint for successful asymmetric warfare.) The apoplexy they caused MSM journos, leading them to then overreact with anti-white diatribes, was a major factor in getting Trump elected. The public never saw the Alt Reich contribution but it was always there bubbling beneath the surface.

Yet the Alt Reich has failed miserably in the physical realm. They require the temperament of experience and they need our help as much as we need theirs. Their tactics are good for recruiting angry, fanatical young men but aren't successful for winning significant voting blocs.

What could be constructive is some genuine dialogue and coordination between the factions. What, as specifically as possible, would the Alt West ask of the Alt Reich? Stopping the presentation of the Nazi aesthetic in public settings? Some hard rules about not talking to the media? And if we ask for an end to the presentation of Nazi symbols, what would we replace them with?

Just for starters.

Anonymous Charlottesvillain September 08, 2017 2:11 AM  

@160

If you listed the most-read sites, the most-followed people, and the most-populated organizations in the alt right, AKA the most influential elements of the alt right, Vox is attacking the bulk of it.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 08, 2017 2:14 AM  

Matt@Occidentalism.org wrote:"In order to sue for defamation of character, it's not enough that somebody express or publish a defamatory statement. There must also be real damage caused by the statement".Most states have defamation per se. Some accusations are so heinous that they constitute defamation without having to demonstrate damages. The list is usually limited to infamous crimes, such as rape, murder, and child molestation.
So, no, damages will likely not have to proved.

Also "actual malice" does not mean what people think it means. It does not require looking into the soul of a slanderer. Per Sullivan. actual malice means knowing falsehood or reckless disregard for the truth.

Read Carol Burnett vs National Enquirer for more background.

If it goes to trial, Vox will likely win.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 08, 2017 2:17 AM  

Dox Vay wrote:There was a time when the comments were good? News to me.
He was talking about before this afternoon, you weren't there.

Anonymous DMV September 08, 2017 2:18 AM  

Perhaps Vox thought his relationship with Andrew, especially how he's always promoting Gab, provided him certain privileges that would include the removal of those derogatory comments. When Andrew refused, Vox considered it a breech of an alliance, a betrayal from someone who should have his back. Had those comments been posted on Twitter or any other social media site I don't believe Vox would have gone to these lengths.

As Vox had stated and has also demonstrated, he does not believe in equality - he will tolerate all kinds of crap from his favorites while coming down on others for far less. In this instance he felt he was more equal than most other Gab users, and most especially the vile little goblins who posted the comments. When Andrew disabused him of this notion it was a slap in the face.

Blogger Matt@Occidentalism.org September 08, 2017 2:19 AM  

"If it goes to trial, Vox will likely win."

Not when they say that they were following Vox Day's advice.

Don't think that Vox Day won't be on trial, too. Everything he ever said will be under the microscope. Also he is a well known white supremacist (reported in the media many times), so he may be "libel proof" under law.

Hell will freeze over before Vox Day wins this case in a US court.

Anonymous VFM #6306 September 08, 2017 2:19 AM  

Stopping the presentation of the Nazi aesthetic in public settings? Some hard rules about not talking to the media? And if we ask for an end to the presentation of Nazi symbols, what would we replace them with?

Good questions.

The Nazi stuff has got to go. They should never speak to the media. Pepe and Harambe and other proxy characters are way more effective anyhow, so they should go for more of that.

The problem is, the true white supremacists, pan-white nationalists,etc are not AltRight. They are Leftist globalists. Whether they genuinely and retardedly believe they are of the Right, or if they are Occupy tards doing an infiltration op, they have to be ejected.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 08, 2017 2:20 AM  

@170 Odds are long that it would never go to trial. There's a subtle art of bullshit artistry in crafting complaints. The defendant could freak out and capitulate immediately or simply fail to answer, both of which would be a win for Vox.

Or, if assisted by competent counsel, move for a FRCP 12(b)(6) or state equivalent dismissal and likely win on the motion.

Anonymous VFM #6306 September 08, 2017 2:22 AM  


Not when they say that they were following Vox Day's advice.


Where did you get your law degree? Lionel Hutz College?

Blogger Mocheirge September 08, 2017 2:26 AM  

I dunno if VD is playing chess or checkers, but the reichtards are trying to scrawl X's and O's on the board while wondering why there are 6 million more squares than the 9 they're used to.

It would be amusing to see their reactions upon learning that this kerfuffle isn't about them, that they were tools to achieve some other purpose.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 08, 2017 2:28 AM  

VFM #6306 wrote:Where did you get your law degree? Lionel Hutz College?
Ouch XD

Anonymous Scintan September 08, 2017 2:32 AM  

Noah B The Savage Gardener wrote:@150 It is a clown show, but it's definitely not all downside and it doesn't follow that we should run from them. They've been enormously successful online using trolling tactics and it's foolish to deny this (look at the energy Vox has expended against a couple of randos who called him a pedophile - this is a classic blueprint for successful asymmetric warfare.) The apoplexy they caused MSM journos, leading them to then overreact with anti-white diatribes, was a major factor in getting Trump elected. The public never saw the Alt Reich contribution but it was always there bubbling beneath the surface.

Yet the Alt Reich has failed miserably in the physical realm. They require the temperament of experience and they need our help as much as we need theirs. Their tactics are good for recruiting angry, fanatical young men but aren't successful for winning significant voting blocs.

What could be constructive is some genuine dialogue and coordination between the factions. What, as specifically as possible, would the Alt West ask of the Alt Reich? Stopping the presentation of the Nazi aesthetic in public settings? Some hard rules about not talking to the media? And if we ask for an end to the presentation of Nazi symbols, what would we replace them with?

Just for starters.



Occupy Wall Street had some success.
BLM has had some success.
Antifa has had some success.

I'd suggest that people run away from those groups, as well.

As for what I'd suggest the Alt-right ask of the Alt-West, that's pretty simple:

Go away.

Grow up.

Drop the white supremacy and neo-Nazi garbage.

Don't Return to the fight until you're wiser and can avoid being truly repugnant to everyone but your own little clique. There's a difference between being an asshole and just plain being a vile, loathsome human being.

Of course, the alt-Reich won't listen.

Anonymous Jack Amok September 08, 2017 2:33 AM  

But I am guessing that Clown Nazis have a similar psychological profile to SJWs, and thus, similar laws apply.

Gammas, SJWs, Feminists, and general Leftist Useful Fools all carry the stench of r-selecteds nervous about their place in the warren.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 08, 2017 2:33 AM  

@174 The problem is, the true white supremacists, pan-white nationalists,etc are not AltRight. They are Leftist globalists.

That's trivial part of the disagreement among the Alt Right. Here's what matters: we all want whites to survive and thrive. We only disagree on what we need to do to make that happen. This is, mostly, a disagreement among friends. I doubt that Richard Spencer is ready to go to war to force Italy and Austria into trade and immigration pacts.

Occasionally there's someone who's saying "Gas the Evangelicals" but I'm thinking - dude, bring it. I've got more ammo than you, I'm a better shot than you, and I won't have to buy cat food for a few weeks. I will Youtube Archie eating your face.

Anonymous Reader September 08, 2017 2:33 AM  

Just my common sense, sense take of it.

CNN or any media organizations telling untruth which my hurt the reputation of a person with public profile, like Milo, is not equivalent to a random person under a false name mouthing one line insanities on social media. To most people media organizations always will be seen as believable compared to some random person.

A reasonable person having read what they wrote will conclude that they were insane, foolish, irrational remarks by idiots.

What will you get by legally forcing Gab to disclose the identities of the 3 persons? So your lawyers can ask them to apologize to you on Gab? Your lawyers should know that they have to prove the extent of the damage to your reputation.

"Fabius Maximus" apologizes for the untruth told about "Vox Day".

Most people on Gab know many gabs are idiocies.

I think the best course of action is to ignore the idiots. This is what most politicians do. Writing 3 blogs about it only make this incident big which would otherwise be buried in the Gabworld if you only ignored it. Frightening them into litigation is punishment enough.

Blogger Lemur September 08, 2017 2:41 AM  

Vox pretended he 'won' the debate with Johnson. Johnson is a mediocre intellectual, Vox, completely above your league.

https://gab.ai/LordLemur/posts/11813957
https://gab.ai/LordLemur/posts/11813724

Anonymous Looking Glass September 08, 2017 2:47 AM  

@163 Wolfman at Large

At this point, you've got a statistically good chance to be correct. Though those that do wouldn't really take it as an insult, so that doesn't necessarily work.


@174 VFM #6306

The Alt-Reichtards are like Universalist-Unitarians. They'll claim all day they're Christian, even if they're clearly & utterly not by any definition but their own insanity. It's the same issue with the LARPers. Because they're not Neo-Liberals or Communists, they can't accept they're on the Left.

They seem to mostly land in the "Social Democrat" alignment (much of Bernie's platform, actually) with a desire to wear 1930s German clothing. Being on the Left isn't intrinsically evil, but they have to be on the "Right" because the SJWs will never give them the time of day.


@175 Noah B The Savage Gardener

I think you're missing a lot of the damage that Lawfare can do.


@177 Mocheirge

The issues between Torba/Gab & VD are a bit more miscommunication, and the entire Gab staff has had an exhausting & troubling couple of weeks. The guy has pretty much gone from trying just to defend legal Free Speech to planning to rebuild the entire Internet in about a month.

From a structural situation, Vox created one of the actual edge cases that will require Gab to sort through some processes. The "Criminally Liable" speech stuff, in the States, is pretty easy. It's the "Civilly Liable" stuff that Gab is going fairly expansionist with. It's normally not much of an issue, as the Mute function cases rapid deesclation. However, VD got into it with some of the LARPers and it escalated.

Gab needs a retro-active NSFW tagging system via report. It's a way to tamping down potential issues when there could be a problem, as several US States still have Criminal Defamation laws. It's one of a collection of issues that'll be sorted out in time. (A lot of this can be done via "community" activity once microtransactions are in. Can pay people 5c to vote on if something is a guideline violation, on edge cases.)

As to the bigger issues, I've got a pretty good idea what's going on, so I'm not going to offer any more technical insight. Though I'm sure we can expect the LARPers to show up 5 minutes before the debate and start taking credit. That, at least, I can predict well enough.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 08, 2017 2:49 AM  

Reader wrote:What will you get by legally forcing Gab to disclose the identities of the 3 persons? So your lawyers can ask them to apologize to you on Gab? Your lawyers should know that they have to prove the extent of the damage to your reputation.
No they don't.
You get to dox them. All nice and public and legal-like. That will make them crap their knickers.

Blogger Lemur September 08, 2017 2:50 AM  

@147

better prose than Vox has ever written

Anonymous Looking Glass September 08, 2017 2:50 AM  

@182 Reader

Considering where things are headed, in cultural trends, I actually think that's the wrong direction for most on the Right to take. You're going to be tagged as all sorts of nasty things which are libelous and defamatory: let the lawsuits fly!

You'll eventually hit someone with enough money to get them to settle, which will fund all further lawsuits. But the big trick is that having multiple open lawsuits against a media organization can actually lock up their entire news room.

Asymmetric Lawfare w/ scale. Someone with just enough funding will bring down a major news organization with it.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener September 08, 2017 2:51 AM  

@184 I think I'm being very realistic. Winning without having to go to trial is a good thing for a plaintiff.

Anonymous Looking Glass September 08, 2017 2:51 AM  

@185 Snidely Whiplash

Shh...

Blogger Bilroy September 08, 2017 3:10 AM  

My gut feeling from the beginning was that this fight with the alt-reich was poorly chosen. Even if you do squash these trolls, you lose.

Anonymous Icicle September 08, 2017 3:14 AM  

It is the inability to figure out what VD is up to

That's a feature, not a bug.

Blogger Matt@Occidentalism.org September 08, 2017 3:16 AM  

190. Bilroy,

I am curious why we should reject the so-called alt-reich when Vox Day is also a white supremacist (he didn't threaten the MSM with a libel case so presumably it is true)?

Is it the nazi symbols? Only one person in Charlottesville did that (out of thousands of people), and none turned up with KKK symbols.

Andrew Anglin also advised people not to turn up with swastikas BEFORE Charlottesville. You can read it on his site if it is up.

All I am seeing is a white supremacist calling other people nazis. What am I missing?

Blogger Buybuydandavis September 08, 2017 3:21 AM  

I doubt this flies as defamation.

Public figure. "I heard". "I only assume". SpaceBunny herself said it only makes them sound retarded.

Even if the purpose is only to dox and not win, a judge will likely rule that the "allegations" are not credible as facts, not taken as facts, and are basically opinion, amounting to "boo Vox". Determining that the underlying defamation suit has no chance of succeeding, he will likely squash the demand for personal information as well.

Maybe not, but I doubt that this accomplishes anything more than feeding trolls, associating Vox with pedophilia forevermore, and causing a stink and distraction for Gab.

Blogger roughcoat September 08, 2017 3:33 AM  

All I am seeing is a white supremacist calling other people nazis. What am I missing?

At a rough guess, about 30-35 IQ points.

Anonymous Looking Glass September 08, 2017 3:35 AM  

This seems related, but I might suggest picking up a separate book from Castalia House: The Nine Laws. https://www.amazon.com/Nine-Laws-Ivan-Throne-ebook/dp/B01LZ2FEGO/

@194 roughcoat

haha

Blogger Wynn Lloyd September 08, 2017 3:44 AM  

Yes that is true, but the alt-Reich needs the prudence and tactical finesse of the alt-West.

They cannot see that we oppose Nazi larping not because we are worried about the opinions of leftists, who will think we are Nazis anyway. We are seeking to win over the purple-pulled, those who are ready to take the dive into identity politics, but who may be turned off by a swastika. Also we ourselves don't find that symbol appealing.
To me Nazism is European and totally alien to my American, Catholic, Southern thinking. My grandfather was a hero fighting in Europe in the war and even though I now think it was a mistake to participate in the war against Germany, I also don't have any desire to see their emblems glorified. We have symbols that can represent defiance and even trigger the leftists almost as much; the Confederate Battle Flag comes to mind. The state flag of Mississippi is another good example. The fact that it's an official state flag no doubt would trigger lefties who would come into contact with it. My personal favorite is the original US flag flown by the Continental Army, with the original thirteen stars.
I guess my point is that our "bad old past" (according to the left) is different from that of European nations and unique to our continent. It is folly to abandon that here for a Nazi aesthetic as the foundation is already ingrained in every white American.

This comment is much larger than planned, lol. I replied so as to show support for your statement, which is the right idea to have, but you provoked me into thinking a little bit as to why I have a problem with the alt-Reich.

I certainly don't think they are bad peoole. Many are just young. Others simply view things differently. Nonetheless I want to see them as brothers.

I have to be loyal to Vox though; he kept me sane when the election was doing severe damage to my sanity.
I VD triumphs but I also hope this chapter ends quickly, so we can get back to fighting the actual enemy.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd September 08, 2017 3:46 AM  

When they make white babies they will hopefully see the reason for caution and prudence.

Blogger Matthew Funk September 08, 2017 3:46 AM  

If you're talking strategy and tactics on a publicly viewable forum, I do hope you're throwing misinformation into the presentation. It would be justified by any and all moral standards to mislead the audience in certain capacities.

Blogger Matthew Funk September 08, 2017 3:47 AM  

*disinformation

Anonymous Icicle September 08, 2017 3:51 AM  

It's not a parody, Vox actually wrote that.

And this has f*ck all to do with anything, other than you think he is a bad writer?

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