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Sunday, November 05, 2017

South Texas church shooting

27+ shot at a small Baptist church. Multiple fatalities. FFS, why aren't people a) carrying in church and b) posting security guards?

KENS5 reports police took down the gunman at the Baptist church in Sutherland Springs after he shot and killed multiple people.

No word on who is responsible, but sounds more like something personal than jihad.

UPDATE: 26 dead, ~20 wounded.

UPDATE: No, this attack will not support the gun control narrative. Quite the contrary:
Today's mass shooting in Sutherland Springs, Texas, was only halted after an armed Texan "engaged" the killer and put an end to the rampage, the Texas Rangers reported.

Freeman Martin, a major in the Texas Rangers and a spokesman for the Texas Department of Public Safety, says the suspect dropped his rifle and fled after being confronted by a local man who had grabbed his rifle.Freeman provided a timeline of the tragedy in a press briefing Sunday evening.

"At approximately 11:20 this morning a suspect was seen at a Valero gas station in Sutherland Springs, Texas," Martin said. "He was dressed in all black. That suspect crossed the street to the church, exited his vehicle and began firing at the church."

"That suspect then moved to the right side of the church and then continued to fire," he continued. "That suspect entered the church and continued to fire. As he exited the church, a local resident grabbed his rifle and engaged that suspect. The suspect dropped his rifle, which was a Ruger AR assault-type rifle and fled from the church."

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203 Comments:

1 – 200 of 203 Newer› Newest»
Anonymous jml1911a1 November 05, 2017 3:23 PM  

Amazing how fast that name got out. Must be a normal white guy instead of the usual Mormon/Black/False Flag operation.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother November 05, 2017 3:25 PM  

People still think that churches have some kind of magical Jesus barrier.

Blogger Ezekiel November 05, 2017 3:26 PM  

I would have said Jihadi at one point but after Vegas who knows?

Blogger Eric Slate November 05, 2017 3:29 PM  

Small congregations may be too poor to hire out security, and many people in America still feel weird about going to a place of worship armed. Hopefully that will pass and people can do what they need to glorify God and be safe.

Blogger ZhukovG November 05, 2017 3:29 PM  

Wonder what his doctor had been prescribing him?

Blogger Rantor November 05, 2017 3:31 PM  

This is sickening. Our church has an armed police officer on hand every Sunday. Not all can afford that, but it is a needed expense when in a gun-control state. I live in a decent gun-rights state, but church is across the state line. Travel required for good biblical teaching.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Fine Purveyor of Quality Artisanal Gorm ) November 05, 2017 3:33 PM  

6. Rantor November 05, 2017 3:31 PM
Our church has an armed police officer on hand every Sunday.



erm.

you church can't manage to attract any cops as members?

Blogger Chris Mallory November 05, 2017 3:35 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Random #57 November 05, 2017 3:37 PM  

Many states outlaw concealed carry in churches, including Texas for the first couple of years of its licensing system, 1995-7.

Anonymous Pax_Romana November 05, 2017 3:37 PM  

We have some undercover security - or had. I haven't seen them in a while, so the new pastor may have decided to nix the idea. However, I do know several members who rebel against the narrative and have CCW licenses and carry. It's LA. If you can actually GET a license to carry, you'd be stupid not to.

Anonymous here we go November 05, 2017 3:38 PM  

Friggin white christians, amiright?

Blogger Johnny November 05, 2017 3:45 PM  

Bet ya the endless ranting against Republicans in fanatical terms is part of what drives this, as predicted by Rush Limbaugh. If of course it isn't Islam.

I think the times aren't right to get more restrictive gun rules. What we are going to get is more people carrying. I bet most churches, even small ones, could come up with more than one person who had a gun on him somewhere. That at least would keep the body count down.

Ain't it something where we are, in the process of throwing away our nice, comfy and rich country for the sake of adhering to some self defeating, harebrained notions of virtue.

Blogger Shamgar November 05, 2017 3:46 PM  

If it comes out that he converted to Islam this story will be over by Tuesday. If not... prepare yourselves for wall to wall coverage for the next month.

Blogger Zimri November 05, 2017 3:49 PM  

'Christopher Allen Ward' is a super common name. So, don't jump to conclusions about which one it is.

Blogger dvdivx November 05, 2017 3:52 PM  

Even Christ's disciples carried swords. Should be an example to carry the modern equivalent.

Blogger ZhukovG November 05, 2017 3:59 PM  

@dvdivx: Yes, when Christ told Peter to put his sword away it was a warning, not a condemnation.

Anonymous Looking Glass November 05, 2017 3:59 PM  

You don't necessarily need police around (though the larger churches do just for basic safety reasons), but you should have some basic planning for security issues. Though depending on the building layout, there could be very little to be done. We'll know more later, I assume.

Also, it's Texas, why wasn't someone armed?

Though it should be noted, if he killed his family first, then this was a Murder-Suicide. Thanks to the Media, attacking a church has been included in this approach. (A lot of cop shootings are actually Suicide-by-Cop.)

Anonymous Takin' a Look November 05, 2017 4:00 PM  

As usual, another FF, GLaDIO type bullshit. The shooter has three first names. Christopher, Allen and "Ward, you were a little hard on the Beaver last night"

Anonymous Ages November 05, 2017 4:00 PM  

Do Middle Eastern Christians arm their congregants? I don’t believe the Copts do.

Blogger Wanderer November 05, 2017 4:00 PM  

It's too early to say anything other than I hope the survivors and the community can recover from this tragedy.

Blogger jay c November 05, 2017 4:02 PM  

This looks like the same Chris Ward as in the facebook profile linked above: https://texas.arrests.org/Arrests/Christopher_Ward_13478003/

Arrested in 09 for DUI and prohibited weapon.

Blogger Zimri November 05, 2017 4:08 PM  

"Arrested in 09 for DUI and prohibited weapon."

Not exactly uncommon in Texas police-blotters, and doesn't seem to have happened again . . .

Anonymous johnc November 05, 2017 4:10 PM  

There are some reports that Chris Ward is one of the victims and not the shooter, so it's a bit up in the air still.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 05, 2017 4:12 PM  

Church seems to be the most popular target in America so may I ask why are Christians so effing unprepared? Is it as Gore Vidal wrote a death cult?

Blogger Chris Mallory November 05, 2017 4:12 PM  

Looking Glass wrote:Also, it's Texas, why wasn't someone armed?

Until the last couple years, Texas gun laws would have fit better in the Northeast.

Reports I have seen say the church only had an average attendance of 50 people. Videos of the church services make it look the the sanctuary was fairly small.

I would guess most of the members were related in one way or another. 3 or 4 extended families making up most of the church members, or that has been my experience with small Baptist churches.

It is also being reported that neighbors did respond with long guns.

Blogger D. H. Rogers November 05, 2017 4:16 PM  

As a pastor, I have two law officers in the congregation, and I have let it be known not only do I have no problem with carrying in church, but also actively encourage some to actually do so.

Blogger Lovekraft November 05, 2017 4:17 PM  

@4:"Small congregations may be too poor to hire out security"

Volunteers. Note that this is a slippery slope. It will attract both those wishing to defend the flock, and those itching to flex their muscles. Need to keep the latter on a tight leash.


Three possibilities:

1 domestic violence-type shooting: guy's wife leaves with the kids, dude starts hearing voices that she was coached by the church.

If so, I would be curious to know how this played out: was Paul's instruction on how to deal with the errant followed to a "T" (meaning, was the guy given a fair shake?).

2. is this denomination one of the few remaining staid and stalwart keepers of God's word and was targeted for obvious reasons by a lunatic, and to send a message? (One leader I like to go to for a healthy dose of no-nonsense, and consistent teaching is Dr Charles Stanley of In Touch Ministries, a Baptist offshoot. "According to the ministry Web site, "Dr. Stanley fervently believes the Bible to be the inerrant Word of God, a belief strongly reflected in his teaching."

3. the local church was drifting and teaching false doctrine, ACCORDING TO this individual and he decided to play God.

Blogger Michael Maier November 05, 2017 4:19 PM  

OK, that makes more sense. If it was someone the church KNEW, I guess I can see them allowing confusion to kill them.

And if he killed his own family before, too... He obviously ain't right in the head in any way.

Anonymous Hrw-500 November 05, 2017 4:21 PM  

Good question abo why aren't people a) carrying in church and b) posting security guards? I spotted some articles about the Saint James Church massacre in 1993 in South Africa.
http://www.breitbart.com/california/2015/06/19/survivor-of-1993-church-massacre-by-gods-grace-i-managed-to-return-fire/
https://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/20-years-later-st-james-horror-endures-1552670
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGif9upDZSo

If one guy had menaged to return fire in that Texan church, would the situation had been different?

I might fall into conspiracy theories territory but I wonder if that guy Christopher Ward might have other skeletons in his closet?

Blogger Markku November 05, 2017 4:21 PM  

Well, Antifa was going to start their civil war 4th November, and it was supposed to continue as long as Trump and Pence resign. One of the things they said they'd do (I can't remember where, but it was an article) was church shootings. (They later said it was a joke). And now, lo and behold, we have one.

So, I'm saying, Antifa.

Anonymous Anonymous November 05, 2017 4:22 PM  

Looks like a church full of rural, elderly White folks. The type most likely to be very unaware of the times we live in and the evil forces lined up agisnt them. Fair certian they felt no need to be armed in their church because their was no need to be armed in the churches/ nation etc of their youth.

I'mII'm pretty hard and this shit gets me down

Blogger Lovekraft November 05, 2017 4:23 PM  

@ 30: Markku

Yeah, I guess I would add that to my list of possibilities. But would be related to #2, in that this church in particular resisted dilution of Scripture.

Blogger Markku November 05, 2017 4:23 PM  

Their rationale was that in a church in the South, everybody would probably be a Trump supporter.

Blogger Chris Mallory November 05, 2017 4:24 PM  

Lovekraft wrote:2. is this denomination one of the few remaining staid and stalwart keepers of God's word


A Baptist church this small might be a member of a national convention and local/regional collectives, mainly for insurance purposes. But the building will be owned by the congregation and 99% of all decisions will be made by the local congregation.

Blogger Cataline Sergius November 05, 2017 4:27 PM  

Yesterday was supposed to be ANTIFA's day of whatever.

Today is Guy Fawkes Day.

Although I suspect these are coincidences.

Blogger Markku November 05, 2017 4:28 PM  

No, yesterday was merely supposed to be the START of the war. They said they'd do terror acts until Trump and Pence resign.

Anonymous carnaby November 05, 2017 4:28 PM  

I guarantee he was on depression/anxiety meds, just like all the other non-jihad mass shooters.

Anonymous Looking Glass November 05, 2017 4:30 PM  

@25 Chris Mallory

Outside images point to an early 20th century design, which was built for non-microphone acoustics. Google's Street View has helpfully removed the direct intersection because of the news event, so an exact read of the building is a problem. (I question why they'd manually do that...)

Central area appears to be from the pre-WW2 era that's been expanded a few times. If they were in the sanctuary, it's a shooting gallery. If he attacked one of the outer areas, it was probably quite hard to figure out what was happening before it was too late. Completely open exterior approaches, as it's a small town in Texas and I imagine we'll find out he was heavily armed.

I've got a bad feeling we're getting a repeat of the Columbine effect. Until Columbine went international, school shootings were actually rare. The idea got stuck in the minds of those on anti-depressants and that was the means they chose to end themselves.

Anonymous Watchu talkin bout Willis November 05, 2017 4:32 PM  

And, you can set your watch to it, here comes the "we must haz gun kintrol" tweets from the Democrats.

Anonymous Laz November 05, 2017 4:35 PM  

"...including Texas for the first couple of years of its licensing system, 1995-7."

That was changed because of the church massacre here in Fort Worth.

Blogger Chris Mallory November 05, 2017 4:35 PM  

Looking Glass wrote:Central area appears to be from the pre-WW2 era that's been expanded a few times

Just guessing adding on a fellowship hall and a few Sunday School classrooms/child care areas. If it is anything like the small Southern Baptist churches I grew up in.

Blogger Cataline Sergius November 05, 2017 4:37 PM  

Watchu talkin bout Willis wrote:And, you can set your watch to it, here comes the "we must haz gun kintrol" tweets from the Democrats.

Mostly they are being sarcastic right now. T

he early Twitter Responders seem to know that this won't move the needle either so they are just bitching about their inability to move the needle.

Anonymous KPP November 05, 2017 4:38 PM  

Visited a new church last week and as the pastor preached his jacket rode up and exposed his carry pistol.

My son and I both nodded at each other, as this had our full approval - we both carry whenever possible. He just turned 21 and on his birthday I took him to the gun store and bought him his pistol. Thank God I live in a state where no permit is necessary to carry concealed.

Blogger Chris Mallory November 05, 2017 4:38 PM  

Texas Congressman has stated that the shooter "was not from the area, he was from outside the area"

Blogger Johnny November 05, 2017 4:39 PM  


I guarantee he was on depression/anxiety meds, just like all the other non-jihad mass shooters.

Meds are often a part of it, way more common than the press is willing to report.

If one guy had menaged to return fire in that Texan church, would the situation had been different?

The thing about a conceal carry guy is that unless the active shooter is looking right at him, he has an enormous initial advantage of at least one or two well aimed shots before the shooter makes him as a target. Better of course to have several people returning fire.

Anonymous Franny November 05, 2017 4:40 PM  

“3. the local church was drifting and teaching false doctrine, ACCORDING TO this individual and he decided to play God“

This is always the threat that comes with having Christians around.

Anonymous JI November 05, 2017 4:42 PM  

How long till someone says it was a false flag and no one was really killed, these were all actors? A week? A couple days?

Anonymous J November 05, 2017 4:42 PM  

Did a quick search through some public facebook profiles associated with Chris Ward - sounds like it could be legit. His ex's baby (from other daddy) was shot. Unlikely they'd be attending there together.

Anonymous Looking Glass November 05, 2017 4:45 PM  

@37 carnaby

95% likely, even if he had stopped months ago. Some of those effects can be permanent. Though the effect isn't directly causation. The Meds limit the normal suicidal pattern a bit, which is only over-come by ramping up the destruction. They go from Suicide to Murder-Suicide to Mass Murder-Suicide.

Also highly likely other drugs as well, as those cause the damage that can get you to the place you'd do something like this.

Blogger Ned November 05, 2017 4:45 PM  

@21 :Christopher Alan Ward - not Allen. Who knows?

Anonymous Looking Glass November 05, 2017 4:47 PM  

@47 JI

The theories only crop up after the government starts lying.

Blogger Johnny November 05, 2017 4:49 PM  

How long till someone says it was a false flag and no one was really killed, these were all actors? A week? A couple days?

A false flag of the normal sort is pretending to be on the other side, but then still doing the event. The body count would be the same. False flag or not, it would be ordinary to expect that all those kids at Sandy Hook are really dead.

Blogger Brad Matthews November 05, 2017 4:49 PM  

When we gather for fellowship, there are always armed men. Crazy not to in light of modern culture.

Anonymous Watchu talkin bout Willis November 05, 2017 4:50 PM  

Read a Farcebook post from a woman claiming to be Chris Ward's Aunt saying he was NOT the shooter. But this is the internet, so...

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 05, 2017 4:51 PM  

The question is; where does Jack Ward stand?

Anonymous johnc November 05, 2017 4:53 PM  

Somebody found that some of the posts on the church's Facebook page have an inordinate number of likes from Middle Eastern names. Of course this could be likes that were put in within the past couple of hours now that the church is in the news.

Blogger Cataline Sergius November 05, 2017 4:59 PM  

carnaby wrote:I guarantee he was on depression/anxiety meds, just like all the other non-jihad mass shooters.

Miriam was prescribed Cymbalta for 'depression' by her doctor in the early fall of 2007. I don't really remember if it seemed to work or not but she remained on it. I do recall that there as a shooting (by a teenager) that December in Nebraska in a mall. And I do recall Miriam's uncharacteristic comment.

'He only managed to kill five people in a crowded mall at Christmas time with a pistol and three magazines? He really needed to learn how to shoot.'

My wife is extremely loving and extremely Christian. Her normal response would have been 'That's terrible. God bless their souls and I hope he finds peace!' 'I could have done better' metaphorically was... not Miriam. I'll admit I didn't really notice it at the time.

Nor did I notice that over the course of the next several months (not sure when it started) we started to have a lot of 'off-brand' bleach around the house. Miriam is a lovely wife but cleaning is not her thing. But she also purchases in a very random manner. (Note the ADHD thing.) This did seem to be alot of bleach, though. I mentioned it a couple of times in jest. (We finally ran through all the bleach she bought in 2007-8 about a year ago. That much bleach.)

I didn't realize there were twenty-nine more gallon bottles in the trunk of her car.

Blogger VFM #7634 November 05, 2017 4:59 PM  

No, yesterday was merely supposed to be the START of the war. They said they'd do terror acts until Trump and Pence resign.

@36 Markku
Makes sense to me. Antifa terror will take the form of mass shootings on ostensible Trump supporters. Mass shootings will be the preferred terror method both because they're hard to trace back to antifa, and they can also push for gun control that way.

Blogger VoodooJock November 05, 2017 5:01 PM  

Used to drive through that area regularly. Lots of Trump signs there. Even a year after the election

Anonymous Watchu talkin bout Willis November 05, 2017 5:02 PM  

Now the chatter on Farcebook is saying perp is some dude named "Devin Kelley"

Anonymous Anonymous November 05, 2017 5:03 PM  

All White men should be armed pretty much at all times and damn any law that says otherwise but because you are armed doesn't mean you have the field of fire or tatical skillz to enage an active shooter.

It would be a pretty tough call to make but let's not over simplify what it would take to end a murder spree in progress

Blogger Chris Mallory November 05, 2017 5:06 PM  

Watchu talkin bout Willis wrote:Now the chatter on Farcebook is saying perp is some dude named "Devin Kelley"

From the Linkedin account for that name:


Causes devin cares about:
Animal Welfare
Arts and Culture
Children
Civil Rights and Social Action
Environment
Health
Human Rights


Seems to suggest a SJW/Antifa.

Blogger Lovekraft November 05, 2017 5:09 PM  

@ 45 Johnny: "Meds are often a part of it, way more common than the press is willing to report."

Over-medicated and under-employed.

Blogger Elder Son November 05, 2017 5:10 PM  

Also saying shooter was wearing "combat gear".

You can tumble that one around.

And, our valiant and trustworthy FBI is on the scene.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 05, 2017 5:12 PM  

"many people in America still feel weird about going to a place of worship armed"

Those people aren't paying very good attention to the commands of Christ.

Luke 22:36, "He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one."

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 05, 2017 5:15 PM  

Is it "Punch a Cuck in the Face" day yet?

Anonymous Looking Glass November 05, 2017 5:16 PM  

@65 Azure Amaranthine

They also don't know much about Church history. We've had to defend our churches for on 2000 years. This ain't new; we just got a minor reprieve.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 05, 2017 5:22 PM  

Looking Glass wrote:@65 Azure Amaranthine

They also don't know much about Church history. We've had to defend our churches for on 2000 years. This ain't new; we just got a minor reprieve.


Agreed.

Blogger Michael November 05, 2017 5:31 PM  

News reports saying shooter "not from around here".

Blogger tz November 05, 2017 5:33 PM  

This is why you must be prepared, especially armed. We are at war, though only the initial skirmishes. However they might happen at your church, or mall even if you aren't near an antifa stronghold.

And for those who don't think the warfare is primarily spiritual, why was it a church and not a mall or local Wal-Mart or some secular place?

Anonymous Watchu talkin bout Willis November 05, 2017 5:34 PM  

NYT reporting murderer is Devin P. Kelley
"Two law enforcement sources, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the continuing investigation, identified the gunman as Devin P. Kelley, 26."
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/05/us/church-shooting-texas.html

Anonymous johnc November 05, 2017 5:35 PM  

Another millennial so we can probably chalk this one up to drugs and atheism.

Anonymous Watchu talkin bout Willis November 05, 2017 5:43 PM  

That's my guess

Blogger Leatherwing November 05, 2017 5:46 PM  

The church puts their Sunday service on Youtube and Facebook. Small congregation, I'm surprised that there were even 50 people attending today.
This ws their service from last Sunday
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYu-XUdms10

Anonymous Looking Glass November 05, 2017 5:51 PM  

This is a horrible event and I'd clear answers will hopefully be available, but CNN reported Sam Hyde was the shooter.

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/927300884417204228

He really can't keep getting away with this. (Some dark humor to tide over the urge to purge heretics.)

Blogger Chris Mallory November 05, 2017 5:55 PM  

Leatherwing wrote:Small congregation, I'm surprised that there were even 50 people attending today.

The pastor was reported to be out of town today. So attendance would have been down. But the casualty numbers add up to just about 50 people.

Blogger Longtime Lurker November 05, 2017 6:00 PM  

@30: Sutherland Springs is 1.5 hours south of Austin. And we know about 40 Antifa were in Austin on November 4. That Baptist Church was well within striking range...

Blogger Elder Son November 05, 2017 6:04 PM  

Kitted up and Antifa, or kitted up and Muslim sounds right.

Blogger Longtime Lurker November 05, 2017 6:09 PM  

The more I think about it: If the perpetrator was in Austin at the anti-Trump protest, Safe Streets may have him on film. Paging Ivan Throne.

Blogger Elder Son November 05, 2017 6:09 PM  

Nope. Kitted up and a married 26-year-old bible studies teacher named Devin Patrick Kelley.

Blogger Heian-kyo Dreams November 05, 2017 6:09 PM  

Twitter rumor mill reports the shooter was a recent muslim convert. Who knows? Antifa, isis, meds, baby daddy drama are all in the running.

Rumor was in the comments of one of PJW's tweets.

Anonymous Looking Glass November 05, 2017 6:12 PM  

@78 Elder Son

Atheist or became Muslim recently is starting to make the rounds, though if the shooter is properly identified, he had some family in the area. It should pretty much be assumed there was at least a specific target in the church.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother November 05, 2017 6:13 PM  

Churches in rural Texas full-on old white people are some of the most clueless people around. Doesn't surprise me at all that no one was carrying. If you're spend all day drinking coffee at the Whataburger and watching Mayberry and Murder She Wrote, you'll have no clue what's going on in the real world.

Anonymous johnc November 05, 2017 6:14 PM  

The atheist / Muslim angle came from a hoax site.

So far VD's initial gut reaction (personal issue) sounds to be the most likely.

Blogger Chris Mallory November 05, 2017 6:15 PM  

Just a thought, if the pastor was out of town, the service may not have been taped.

Blogger Elder Son November 05, 2017 6:15 PM  

A LinkedIn account appearing to belong to Kelley describes him as serving in the U.S. Air Force from his 2009 high-school graduation until 2013, after which he briefly taught at a summer Bible school.

Blogger Jamie-R November 05, 2017 6:17 PM  

Looks like Chuck Norris' Invasion USA if you ask me. Set piece political theatre. I mean Rand Paul survived the Scalise shooting only to have 5 ribs broken, 3 of which could have potentially been life-threatening? That's not minor. And one wonders if all these miscreants are being pushed to act. You have to marvel at how well they seem selected, all white males with dirt on them seemingly lured enough to help a political insurgency have teeth.

Anonymous DDT November 05, 2017 6:17 PM  

/pol/ is saying this guy was an atheist, offering up this as proof.

Blogger Chris Mallory November 05, 2017 6:18 PM  

According to this witness the shooter might have been wounded by an armed neighbor.

https://www.ksat.com/news/watch-ksats-erica-hernandez-first-at-scene-gives-firsthand-account-of-mass-church-shooting?__vfz=medium%3Dsharebar

Blogger Will Brown November 05, 2017 6:20 PM  

As regards the question why wasn't someone carrying a gun in church, others have noted here that Texas law originally forbade carrying a concealed firearm in a "house of worship". This has been modified to permit church's (private property owners generally actually) to decide for themselves by opting to post a 30:06 sign at the front door if they wish to (referring to Texas Statute #30:06). Living in N. E. Texas myself, I have no knowledge as to how the Sutherland Springs congregation came down on that choice. I should also point out that a small congregation might well have settled on word-of-mouth as being sufficient in such a small community (Texas law allows for verbal restriction of carriage on private property in many circumstances, so this is not that unlikely or unreasonable a possibility to keep in mind). As is usual in these sorts of circumstances, many important details are unknown in the early hours/days following the event; just one more item to keep an eye out for.

Anonymous Looking Glass November 05, 2017 6:22 PM  

We're going to have a case of physiognomy is real again if the first pictures are standard of him. And medication/drug issues as well.

Though "Baby Mama Drama" is quite likely to crop up quickly.

Anonymous johnc November 05, 2017 6:27 PM  

Okay I take back my other comments. Atheist / Leftist is looking more likely.

He was court martialed in 2014 and dishonorably discharged.

Blogger Chris Mallory November 05, 2017 6:29 PM  

CBS reporter tweeted that the shooter had gotten a dishonorable discharge. If so, he would have failed a 4473 background check. This might be used to crack down on private sales.

https://twitter.com/DavidBegnaud/status/927312251656265728?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fheavy.com%2Fnews%2F2017%2F11%2Fdevin-kelley-p-sutherland-springs-church-shooter-patrick-kelly%2F

Blogger Michael Maier November 05, 2017 6:31 PM  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp_tMoz2fYg

Blogger vorlos November 05, 2017 6:31 PM  

Drugs,atheism, and Antifa agiprop, likely.

Blogger Johnny November 05, 2017 6:39 PM  

As regards the question why wasn't someone carrying a gun in church...

Up where I live it would be unsurprising if they just never thought about it.

Blogger Johnny November 05, 2017 6:43 PM  

Well who knows, but I can't imagine Antifa will get the outcomes they want by promoting violence in this country. The main thing is that it will get all the sleepy eyed people to pop their eyes open and realize that we have a problem and it doesn't come from traditional society.

Blogger JaimeInTexas November 05, 2017 6:49 PM  

Just heard in live press conference a neighbor engaged and who that killer. It is not yet known if killer died from self-inflicted wound or otherwise.

Blogger Dire Badger November 05, 2017 6:51 PM  

"I was late for group"

Which means group therapy, lost his baby, and his wife probably went nuts at him.

Psycho, with probably some insane medication.

Anonymous Son of Liberty November 05, 2017 7:11 PM  

4chans beta uprising seems like its going on as predicted.

The drugged out unhappy betas fed lies by the church, boomers, cuckservatives , and feminists are lashing out.

Anonymous Avalanche November 05, 2017 7:18 PM  

@31 "Looks like a church full of rural, elderly White folks. The type most likely to be very unaware of the times we live in and the evil forces lined up against them. Fair certain they felt no need to be armed in their church because their was no need to be armed in the churches/ nation etc of their youth."

Yeah, SO many lovely folks are just DENSE about "modern times." I was bitchy this morning, so raked the oldsters ion a forum I hang out on over the coals for "believing the MSM" (hitting on the C-Ville and antifa violence and Moldylocks -- and media lies).

I recently raised hell with a neighbor who called me to check on her dog, because she was going from work down to a MARTA station near ATL to wait for her husband, who was riding up from the ATL airport... So she sat there with their 15-yr-old daughter in the car. AT a MARTA station! At night! (UNARMED!)

I raised high holy hell and told her to just tell me and *I* would go pick up him at the airport (about an hour away!). That risking her and girl's life was beyond insane. But, she had no sense of it being particularly dangerous. (Damn it!)

(Still I am having some success with my neighbors. Pointing out the crimes around us...

Blogger Zimri November 05, 2017 7:19 PM  

"4chans beta uprising"

If you want to see beta, check out the statues of Saint Joseph at your Catholic church. Where he looks old, tired, and defeated.

The killer is gamma / omega.

Blogger Heian-kyo Dreams November 05, 2017 7:19 PM  

At least this piece of shit saved the fine Texan tax payers the cost of his trial.

Anonymous Avalanche November 05, 2017 7:19 PM  

@35 "Yesterday was supposed to be ANTIFA's day of whatever.
Today is Guy Fawkes Day.
Although I suspect these are coincidences."

Bet 80% of the antifa/BLM/BlackBloc/progs have never even HEARD of Fawkes! Remember, remember...

Anonymous Sam November 05, 2017 7:20 PM  

Lets restart this thread in the proper order ... our prayers go out to families and loved ones killed there. May they find themselves in the gentle care of the Lord.


Blogger James November 05, 2017 7:21 PM  

Thank God/Allah/Obama that it was a Christian church with old, White privileged, cisgendered, homophobes. If it had been a mosque, we would have been divided and hate would have won. Plus, the atmosphere would have been filled with the smoke from a million candle light vigil that would have contributed to global warming.

Anonymous Sam November 05, 2017 7:23 PM  

Somemone wound up another kid and sent him off to kill.

Blogger Lovekraft November 05, 2017 7:29 PM  

@ 75: Sam Hyde? As in Sam Hyde from Million Dollar Extreme?

100% British!

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 05, 2017 7:34 PM  

"If it had been a mosque, we would have been divided and hate would have won."

So what you're saying is, if we want this to be over with quickly...

Anonymous Sam November 05, 2017 7:34 PM  

If i have to bring my 45 to church, i am at the wrong church. Dont blame the victims here..its vastly easier to kill than to prevent it.. some guy walks in with a AR, high cap magazine, determined to kill, people will die.. dont kid youselves..... even if you were armed there would be dead people.

Blogger roughcoat November 05, 2017 7:35 PM  

If i have to bring my 45 to church, i am at the wrong church.

What a dumbass thing to say.

Anonymous Avalanche November 05, 2017 7:36 PM  

@70 "This is why you must be prepared, especially armed. We are at war, though only the initial skirmishes."

I carry almost all the time. I decided some months ago that 'posture' that needed to even include to the gym: got a small messenger-style bag, got the "flashbang" holster (it's the women's holster that depends from the center of a bra -- I don't wear it that way, but I DO use the (gun-specific) kydex shell: VERY small shell, covers the trigger completely. Carry my keys, gym card, pen and notepad for reps and weights (yes, I lift!); and the .380 gun.

The chances against some aloha snackbar deciding on a small gym in semi-rural Georgia as a place to earn his virgins (or is it grapes?) are about a million to 1. However, IF that extremely, vanishingly rare 'number' comes up: I am NOT going to be disarmed!

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 05, 2017 7:41 PM  

"If i have to bring my 45 to church, i am at the wrong church."

You don't "have" to.

You only "have" to if you care enough about not getting mass-murdered by a lunatic or satanic-cultist. Or, alternatively, if you care enough about your fellow church-members not being murdered by the same.

"Dont blame the victims here..its vastly easier to kill than to prevent it"

See, if you'd said "It's vastly easier to kill 1-2 people than to prevent it" you'd have had a quite honest point, if not particularly salient. Instead, you chose to imply that it's vastly easier to kill tens of people than to prevent it... which is very untrue given the weapons and methods involved in this and many other modern church shootings.

"some guy walks in with a AR, high cap magazine, determined to kill, people will die.. dont kid youselves..... even if you were armed there would be dead people."

Yes, but almost certainly nowhere near as many, you cucked douchenougat.

Anonymous BBGKB November 05, 2017 7:44 PM  

The shooters facebook page shows a mystery meat kid. What if this guy is a CUCKED Oathkeeper?
https://gab.ai/topic/51b4850a-dbf3-41de-bca9-efb6a626b5b3

Shitlib media is now saying the pussy hat wearing Anti TRUMP protester with a brown moslem girlfriend who shot hundreds of TRUMP voters was actually a TRUMP supporter

OT:
Dear moslems
My ex works at 30 Rockefeller Center NY NY & says people paint pictures of Mohamad blowing pigs.

Blogger James November 05, 2017 7:44 PM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:"If it had been a mosque, we would have been divided and hate would have won."

So what you're saying is, if we want this to be over with quickly...


I think what I'm saying is that "Old, White, Christian, Cisgendered, Homophobic Lives don't matter". Diverse, vibrant, muslim, LGBTUVWXYZ Lives do. The only thing about this incident that is important is that "assault weapons" were used. Fortunately, to those on the left, no one of value was killed.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 05, 2017 7:46 PM  

@James, I don't think you're getting the black humour/aggressive joke...

Anonymous Avalanche November 05, 2017 7:47 PM  

@110 "some guy walks in with a AR, high cap magazine, determined to kill, people will die.. dont kid youselves..... even if you were armed there would be dead people."

What another dumb-ass thing to say! If you were armed when the guy starts shooting you can STOP the shooting before it reaches 20+ dead!

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 05, 2017 7:54 PM  

Have we not had enough of this feminized society? Literally good Christian men (FTR I am not a Christian) do you think your women want to bed with feminized men?

Anonymous Planter November 05, 2017 7:55 PM  

Glock 43. Great personal carry gun.

Blogger DonReynolds November 05, 2017 7:59 PM  

Wikipedia already has an article on the Sutherland Springs church shooting.

The shooter lives in New Braunfels, which is 35 miles away.

He is a USAF vet, Dishonorably Discharged and court martialed in 2014 and recently was a volunteer teacher's aid in a vacation Bible school in Kingsville....which is 185 miles away.

Time and space seems to be a bit weird here.

Blogger Cinco November 05, 2017 7:59 PM  

If i have to bring my 45 to church, i am at the wrong church. Dont blame the victims here..its vastly easier to kill than to prevent it..

Unlikely that anyone here is going to blame the victims
, however we will assign responsibility to defend oneself to all that were harmed. We will also pray for them. We are kind of realists around these parts...

Blogger DonReynolds November 05, 2017 8:06 PM  

The BBC says that the shooter wore a ballistic vest and was dressed entirely in black. He used an AR-15 "type" weapon.

Is there any connection with the failed Antifa "uprising" yesterday. That seems to be their fashion.

Blogger liberranter November 05, 2017 8:18 PM  

@47, JI

How long till someone says it was a false flag and no one was really killed, these were all actors? A week? A couple days?

I'm certainly not ready to say that no one was killed, or that actors were involved. However, it has reached the point where ANY "mass shooting" in this country sets off my "false flag" alarm.

Why? Well, how many mass shootings in this country were there before the election of the GE? An average of one per year, maybe? How many have there been since then? I think we're averaging about one per month now. There is simply no logical reason for the uptick, other than that SOMEBODY in a position of power so high up that we can't see them is looking to destabilize the GE's presidency by going after those who are perceived as the demographic that put him in office.

Blogger DonReynolds November 05, 2017 8:19 PM  

johnc wrote:Okay I take back my other comments. Atheist / Leftist is looking more likely.

He was court martialed in 2014 and dishonorably discharged.



I noticed something unusual here. He was in the USAF from 2009 to 2013 and discharged. He was not court martialed, as you noted until (May) 2014. It is not clear if he already had the Dishonorable Discharge or if it was handed down after he left the USAF. No word yet on the verdict or the charges involved in the court martial offenses.

Significant other here, believes he must have been charged with crimes AFTER he was discharged, perhaps because someone came forward with a complaint.

Blogger liberranter November 05, 2017 8:20 PM  

He is a USAF vet, Dishonorably Discharged and court martialed in 2014

Fits the "patsy profile" perfectly.

Anonymous DDT November 05, 2017 8:28 PM  

He is a USAF vet, Dishonorably Discharged and court martialed in 2014 and recently was a volunteer teacher's aid in a vacation Bible school in Kingsville....which is 185 miles away.

This guy was an atheist, and his 'bible school' credit is for exactly one month in 2014, as per his Linkedin.

Anonymous Anonymous November 05, 2017 8:35 PM  

Average congregation in the US has fifty members

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 05, 2017 8:36 PM  

Sam
If i have to bring my 45 to church, i am at the wrong church.

Cool. Bullet sponges like you can be handy.

Dont blame the victims here..its vastly easier to kill than to prevent it..

Dude, you're too short for this range.

The shooter ran away as soon as someone shot back at him. This is typical. It is typical behavior from Columbine on - as soon as someone shoots back, these zombies either run, top themselves or both. Shooting back will save lives.

Shoot back early. Shoot back often.

Blogger tublecane November 05, 2017 8:46 PM  

Freeman Martin, Texas Ranger. Sounds like a Louis L'Amour character.

Blogger Student in Blue November 05, 2017 8:48 PM  

"Ugh, people who believe stuff, am I right?"

Blogger Ezekiel November 05, 2017 8:53 PM  

A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents wrote:Sam

If i have to bring my 45 to church, i am at the wrong church.

Cool. Bullet sponges like you can be handy.

Dont blame the victims here..its vastly easier to kill than to prevent it..

Dude, you're too short for this range.

The shooter ran away as soon as someone shot back at him. This is typical. It is typical behavior from Columbine on - as soon as someone shoots back, these zombies either run, top themselves or both. Shooting back will save lives.

Shoot back early. Shoot back often.

Saint James Church massacre. Four men with grenades and assault rifles vs one with a .38 revolver. Revolver won.

Blogger Ezekiel November 05, 2017 8:54 PM  

...South Africa's current ruling elites have ensured that that will never happen again, of course.

Anonymous Anonymous November 05, 2017 8:59 PM  

Christcuckery died a little today.

Blogger tuberman November 05, 2017 9:03 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger tuberman November 05, 2017 9:05 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Ken Prescott November 05, 2017 9:13 PM  

DonReynolds wrote:johnc wrote:Okay I take back my other comments. Atheist / Leftist is looking more likely.

He was court martialed in 2014 and dishonorably discharged.



I noticed something unusual here. He was in the USAF from 2009 to 2013 and discharged. He was not court martialed, as you noted until (May) 2014. It is not clear if he already had the Dishonorable Discharge or if it was handed down after he left the USAF. No word yet on the verdict or the charges involved in the court martial offenses.

Significant other here, believes he must have been charged with crimes AFTER he was discharged, perhaps because someone came forward with a complaint.


https://www.thedailybeast.com/devin-patrick-kelley-idd-as-sutherland-springs-church-killer

"Kelley was discharged from the Air Force in 2014, according to Defense Department records. Kelley was court martialed in November 2012 and a judge sentenced him with a bad-conduct discharge, 12 months confinement, and two reductions in rank to basic airman, according to an appeals court decision in 2013 that affirmed the decision against Kelley."

OK, Big Chicken Dinner, 12 months' bad time in the brig delayed his release from active duty, the timeline makes sense.

Blogger VFM #7634 November 05, 2017 9:15 PM  

Christcuckery died a little today.

@132 doktorjeep
Christ Jesus willing, may it be so.

Shooter a confirmed leftoid? Check.

Dishonorable discharge from the military, which should have slapped a lifetime ban on firearms ownership on him? Check.

Support for "the only defense against a crook with a gun is a citizen with a gun"? Check.

Blogger Chris Mallory November 05, 2017 9:20 PM  

DonReynolds wrote:The shooter lives in New Braunfels, which is 35 miles away.

He is a USAF vet, Dishonorably Discharged and court martialed in 2014 and recently was a volunteer teacher's aid in a vacation Bible school in Kingsville....which is 185 miles away.

Time and space seems to be a bit weird here.


Texas is a big place. Houston to El Paso is 750 miles.

Blogger Chris Mallory November 05, 2017 9:22 PM  

DDT wrote:bible school' credit is for exactly one month in 2014,

At the Southern Baptist churches around here VBS only lasts a week.

Blogger Mountain Man November 05, 2017 9:29 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Mountain Man November 05, 2017 9:30 PM  

Ive been CCW nearly everywhere for the last year- including church. When sitting, we make sure that we are nearly always in the last pew that abuts the back wall - to the left of the entrance. Fell much less vulnerable that way.
There is a real lack of desire , among most Christian men, to take seriously the need for protection of the flock - both their personal and the church collective. Low T combined with the religion of Nice has made its mark. There is a reason that we are exhorted in Scripture to be as " wise as serpents...."

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky November 05, 2017 9:31 PM  

On LinkedIn the scumbag lists these as the causes he cares about:

Animal Welfare
Arts and Culture
Children
Civil Rights and Social Action
Environment
Health
Human Rights

Sounds pretty dang lefty to me. Although to be fair my profile does not list "collecting SJW skulls", as it ought.

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky November 05, 2017 9:41 PM  

Not sure the assumption that this was a white church is correct. Parishioners are looking Hispanic so far. Preacher's daughter (at 14! God rest her soul) decidedly non-white.

Blogger DonReynolds November 05, 2017 9:46 PM  

DDT wrote:He is a USAF vet, Dishonorably Discharged and court martialed in 2014 and recently was a volunteer teacher's aid in a vacation Bible school in Kingsville....which is 185 miles away.

This guy was an atheist, and his 'bible school' credit is for exactly one month in 2014, as per his Linkedin.


Yes, maybe things have changed, but Vacation Bible School seldom lasts a full month in the summer time. Usually in June.

Anonymous Sidehill Dodger November 05, 2017 9:50 PM  

a deplorable rubberducky wrote:On LinkedIn the scumbag lists these as the causes he cares about:

Animal Welfare
Arts and Culture
Children
Civil Rights and Social Action
Environment
Health
Human Rights


DDT wrote:This guy was an atheist, and his 'bible school' credit is for exactly one month in 2014, as per his Linkedin.

So the Bible school thing was a blind to make him look more of a "community activist" to potential employers. He had no connection with this church and, I'll warrant, any church at all. That's not the narrative I seemed to be getting at the start...

Because Antifa has declared an ongoing war, I think we should presume that any acts of violence that occur now and in the indefinite future were authored by that organization.

Blogger DonReynolds November 05, 2017 9:53 PM  

Chris Mallory wrote:DonReynolds wrote:The shooter lives in New Braunfels, which is 35 miles away.

He is a USAF vet, Dishonorably Discharged and court martialed in 2014 and recently was a volunteer teacher's aid in a vacation Bible school in Kingsville....which is 185 miles away.

Time and space seems to be a bit weird here.


Texas is a big place. Houston to El Paso is 750 miles.


You better believe it! Driving from the Texas Hill Country, it took me all day to get the state line in any direction. When I drove regularly to Nashville from Austin, it was 860 miles, mostly in Texas.

Blogger Publius November 05, 2017 9:56 PM  

And this is why I always carry a concealed makarov in church. I have a wife and young son to protect

Blogger tz November 05, 2017 9:57 PM  

Meanwhile Rand Paul, Trump's conscience, has 5 broken ribs, some threatening.

Blogger Mountain Man November 05, 2017 9:57 PM  

The blood of the innocent is on the hands of anyone who has funded Antifa.
As it is made clear in Scripture their blood cries out for justice from the earth. God has heard. He will not be mocked.

Anonymous Kat November 05, 2017 9:58 PM  

Mountain Man wrote:Ive been CCW nearly everywhere for the last year- including church. When sitting, we make sure that we are nearly always in the last pew that abuts the back wall - to the left of the entrance. Fell much less vulnerable that way.

There is a real lack of desire , among most Christian men, to take seriously the need for protection of the flock - both their personal and the church collective. Low T combined with the religion of Nice has made its mark. There is a reason that we are exhorted in Scripture to be as " wise as serpents...."


At my church you either sit with a good view of all the doors, or you sit where you can get the heck out of dodge. I do try to sit where I could make a beeline for the children's area in case of trouble - the assumption being that I head for the kids while my husband engages whatever might be happening in the sanctuary.

This is reminding me that I really need to get to the range this week......

Blogger Ken Prescott November 05, 2017 9:58 PM  

Latest: apparently court-martialed on two counts of Article 128 UCMJ, Assault on his spouse and assault on their child.

Anonymous Sidehill Dodger November 05, 2017 10:02 PM  

For what it's worth, our North Texas church has a security detail composed of CCWs who are always carrying. We have someone at all the doors before each service, and we keep our eyes open during the services. That's in addition to the uniformed police we hire for traffic control. Yes, it's a large church, but even a small poor church can spring for the economy version.

Now if the pastor would only get on message. Seems the Reverend asked one of his buddies to bring in a rifle for him to borrow so he could go hunting. Said buddy walked in the door just before the service, carrying what was obviously a long gun case. Minor alarums and excursions followed, but all was settled calmly.

Blogger Jack Ward November 05, 2017 10:10 PM  

@55
I stand with armed church goers and many of them.

Blogger Elder Son November 05, 2017 10:21 PM  

TX Hero Who Caught Gunman Devin Kelley Interviewed — CHASED HIM DOWN IN HIS TRUCK! (VIDEO)

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/11/must-see-hero-caught-gunman-devin-kelley-interviewed-chased-truck-video/

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales November 05, 2017 10:25 PM  

"Church seems to be the most popular target in America so may I ask why are Christians so effing unprepared? Is it as Gore Vidal wrote a death cult?"

I don't know who the fuck that is, and I don't, but really, you can ask the same questions literally about any segment of Western society here or group that you want, say, those concert goers at Arianna Grand's show in Londom or those hapless krauts in that Christmas Market in Germany or those hapless Frenchies and confused Texans in Nice.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales November 05, 2017 10:38 PM  

@46

Wasn't the head of the American atheist association or something killed by another atheist who was a member of the same organization?

Blogger Elder Son November 05, 2017 10:40 PM  

"...why are Christians so effing unprepared?"

Years of brainwashing.

Tax Exempt Foundations-Reece Committee Hearings

Tax Exempt Foundations-Cox Committee Hearings

Found here: http://deliberatedumbingdown.com/pages/pdf_downloads.html

It has saturated every aspect of our lives.

The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work... when you go to church... when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.

Anonymous Sam November 05, 2017 10:41 PM  

113, 117, 127...

The facts are there was a heroic man there that did start to fire.. and yet still >20 died.

Lets not argue over this anymore ... i carry every day.

Blogger Elder Son November 05, 2017 10:42 PM  

By the way, only something like 17 percent of professing Christians have actually read their bible.

Blogger Elder Son November 05, 2017 10:43 PM  

And:

83 percent of professing Christians: Are “Meh” Christians who don’t take the Bible literally.

One in two U.S. millennials say they would rather live in a socialist or communist country. 22% of them have a favorable view of Karl Marx and a surprising number see Joseph Stalin and Kim Jong Un as “heroes.”

Anonymous Sidehill Dodger November 05, 2017 10:54 PM  

Elder Son wrote:By the way, only something like 17 percent of professing Christians have actually read their bible.

Just where do you pull those statistics from? They smell kinda...off.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales November 05, 2017 10:55 PM  

@118

Yeah, and how are the birthrates for whatever the fuck you are going again? If it's atheist or agnostic, you're outnumbered (and likely outgunned in a very real way) so hilariously bad all it would really take is for people not on your side of the religious isle to just say 'fuck it' and go a skull collecting.

Anonymous JAG November 05, 2017 10:57 PM  

Chris Mallory wrote:Looking Glass wrote:Also, it's Texas, why wasn't someone armed?

Until the last couple years, Texas gun laws would have fit better in the Northeast.

Reports I have seen say the church only had an average attendance of 50 people. Videos of the church services make it look the the sanctuary was fairly small.

I would guess most of the members were related in one way or another. 3 or 4 extended families making up most of the church members, or that has been my experience with small Baptist churches.

It is also being reported that neighbors did respond with long guns.



We've been purging the RINOs over the last decade, and it is paying dividends. We have a great Governor now too.

Blogger WynnLloyd November 05, 2017 11:00 PM  

Good to see you back.
Do you mean Texans in Nice, France? That's interesting but also strange. There are so many attacks nowadays it's impossible to keep up with them all.

Blogger Elder Son November 05, 2017 11:06 PM  

Just where do you pull those statistics from? They smell kinda...off.

For God's sake, look around you. You have eyes to see and ears to hear, right? You really believe that America is a "Christian" nation anymore? Because, "I'ma Christian too!"

I'm betting you don't know what the fastest growing religion is in America either.

Blogger FALPhil November 05, 2017 11:08 PM  

Elder Son wrote:By the way, only something like 17 percent of professing Christians have actually read their bible.

And 70% of what you read on the internet is false.

Actually, in my experience, that number seems about right for American members of the Roman church. But, it is vastly different, by my experience, in the conservative, orthodox evangelical denominations.

Anonymous Trumpster November 05, 2017 11:11 PM  

First, ban all auto an semi-auto's
No guns for anyone convicted of a felony or misdomenor
1 year of gun safety classes before getting a permit.
Permit should cost $500 per year
Guns must be under lock and key in house.
Guns only purchased from Govt. Gun Dealers.

This is the right way to do it.

Blogger Emmanuel Mateo-Morales November 05, 2017 11:11 PM  

@163

Yes. There were 2 Texans visiting Nice during the Bastille Day truck attack that got wrecked. Father and son I believe.

Anonymous Angly November 05, 2017 11:15 PM  

"Yes. There were 2 Texans visiting Nice during the Bastille Day truck attack that got wrecked. Father and son I believe."

Two down....

Blogger roughcoat November 05, 2017 11:24 PM  

Trumpster wrote:First, ban all auto an semi-auto's
No guns for anyone convicted of a felony or misdomenor
1 year of gun safety classes before getting a permit.
Permit should cost $500 per year
Guns must be under lock and key in house.
Guns only purchased from Govt. Gun Dealers.

This is the right way to do it.


No, and go fuck yourself.

Anonymous johnc November 05, 2017 11:34 PM  

Meanwhile Rand Paul, Trump's conscience, has 5 broken ribs, some threatening.

I think this is the only country in the world where politically-motivated attacks on elected officials are not taken seriously. I don't think the media even barely reported on the incident.

Which is why the first thing we need to replace is the lying media machine.

Anonymous Trumpster November 05, 2017 11:39 PM  

“No, and go fuck yourself.“

Yes! And no...you and your mass murdering friends can go F yourself

Blogger Odin Indaway November 05, 2017 11:40 PM  

The Perps short lived Sunday School assignment at a church over 180 miles away might have been to case the place as a possible site for an attack later.

Anonymous Trumpster November 05, 2017 11:43 PM  

“I don't think the media even barely reported on the incident.”

You don’t think. Or read. It was widely reported on front pages, on Sunday shows and on cable and networks. Amazing it didn’t get completely shut out given the murders by the gun fetishist.

Anonymous An Extremely Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than A Basket Of Twenty Deplorable Cents November 05, 2017 11:51 PM  

@Some troll pooping

First, ban all liberals and leftists.
No votes for any libtard convicted of a felony or misdomenor
1 year of civics safety classes before getting to vote.
Vote permit should cost $500 per year
Libtards must be under lock and key in house.

This is the right way to do it.

Blogger michaeloh59 November 05, 2017 11:54 PM  

I travel that road quite a bit and never even noticed Sutherland Springs was there. That's how small it is. Internet is reporting the shooter is antifa and posted a pic of some weakling in his antifa outfit. The Texas Rangers say the pussy was confronted by one civilian who armed himself with a rifle, whereupon antifa......dropped his own rifle and fled. This, of course, is why he chose a church. Because he is a coward and could reasonably expect that no small town Texas church would be prepared for the slow motion genocide that is the inevitable result of 5 decades of anti-white hatred in the US. Well the genocide has come to my neck of the woods and there is no longer any safe place for non-conforming whites.

Anonymous Trumpster November 06, 2017 12:00 AM  

“Internet is reporting the shooter is antifa and posted a pic of some weakling in his antifa outfit. “

Well...if “the Internet” reported it!!

More than likely it’s another White, gun fetishist, Christian.

Anonymous Panzer Man November 06, 2017 12:05 AM  

I can't wait to see this particularly sanctimonious example of poop gathered by the Dark Lord's Scooper.

Blogger Frank Brady November 06, 2017 12:12 AM  

Trumpster, this killer (according to his Facebook posts) was one of yours, an anti-Trump Antifa thug loser. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 06, 2017 12:18 AM  

Poopster cleanup on aisles 166, 171, 173 and 176.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine November 06, 2017 12:21 AM  

Ignore the poop people, ignore the poop. You don't clean up poopster by picking it up with your hands and talking at it while it gets all over your clothes, do you?

Blogger Doom November 06, 2017 12:31 AM  

Why are any of you communicating with Trumpster? If someone dumps near you, don't go stomp around in it. Not my porch, it has been made clear. Either the hosts sprays it off and removes the offender or not. You are probably arguing with a druggy, souless statist, or retard (literal), just as likely a mix. Which makes me question some of you. If honest, only potentially good for fist fights. I need a little more from allies.

Anonymous Trunpster November 06, 2017 12:32 AM  

“Trumpster, this killer (according to his Facebook posts) was one of yours, an anti-Trump Antifa thug loser. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.“

Why are you lying about this? How much do you have to lose that would motivate you to lie. No Antigua connection. All we know is military, spouse abuser, white, Christian. Christians in Texas are dangers to humanity.

Anonymous johnc November 06, 2017 12:34 AM  

Looks like a combination of atheism and crazy. But I guess that goes hand-in-hand.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5053013/Devin-Kelley-outcast-preached-atheism.html

Blogger Chiva November 06, 2017 12:46 AM  

No Antigua connection.

The people of Antigua are very relieved.

Blogger Frank Brady November 06, 2017 12:53 AM  

My apologies to the group. After careful review, I can find no definitive evidence that this killer was an ANTIFA member. He was, however, an atheist who abused his wife and child and was discharged from the Air Force under less than honorable conditions. Sounds like the kind of guy that Trumpster would identify with.

Anonymous CoolHand November 06, 2017 12:56 AM  

Trumpster wrote:“No, and go fuck yourself.“

Yes! And no...you and your mass murdering friends can go F yourself


Come and take 'em then, I dare ya.

Blogger Thucydides November 06, 2017 1:03 AM  

RIP to the victims.

It is far too early to tell what happened or why, so lets leave the speculation aside for now.

One thing clear in the reporting is that the perp opened fire from outside the building, shooting through he walls and doors before entering. If that is the MO, then carrying inside might not help. you could b gunned down or pinned down inside without ever seeing the shooter or having a clear idea of their location.

Whatever the reason for the shooting, there was a certain rational plan being made and executed, and only the timely intervention of an outsider with a long gun of their own stopped the attack.

Blogger DonReynolds November 06, 2017 1:11 AM  

Not so fast, Frank Brady.....
You need to reconsider.

Very recently, a "right-wing" radio talk show host was accused by a major newspaper of being a "KKK Leader", simply because he had David Duke as a guest on his program.

He objected....said he had never been a KKK Leader, or member of the KKK, now or at anytime in the past. The newspaper published a retraction and the radio talk show host sued the newspaper for libel.

But a Liberal Judge tossed out the lawsuit, saying that the talk show host COULD be a "KKK Leader" without being a member of the KKK.

So according to modern jurisprudence, the church shooter may have been an Antifa Leader. He obviously agrees with their political ideology and espouses many of the exact same causes...on his Facebook page. He even dressed in the Antifa "uniform", with was the familiar Ninja all-black color, with body armor. He certainly displayed the same cowardly yellow-guts...had his rifle taken from him by a by-stander, opened fire on unarmed citizens, ran away at the first sign of any push-back.

That all smells like Antifa to me.
No doubt he is an Antifa Leader.

Blogger Doom November 06, 2017 1:16 AM  

One thing, the hero should shut up. Heck there are commentors here who would go after him, possibly before going after the shooter... even the moderates like Sam. Don't bother, they deny when in the spotlight until given a real opportunity or they find a dark corner in which to throw stones at 'their own'. And, of course the open enemy or government agents, but I repeat. It wouldn't surprise me if the anti-murderer is under investigation or even arrest, with the fbi on it.

Blogger DonReynolds November 06, 2017 1:26 AM  

Not to be unkind, but the full story was reported November 1st.

https://www.courthousenews.com/newspaper-cleared-radio-hosts-libel-claim-kkk-label/

Blogger Frank Brady November 06, 2017 2:17 AM  

DonReynolds, I don't disagree with you. He could well be a member of Antifa and even an Antifa leader. My post was just to clarify that I couldn't find any direct evidence that he was (although I had asserted earlier that it had been proven that he was). That evidence may still develop and I won't be surprised if it does.

Anonymous Precious November 06, 2017 2:22 AM  

First Antifa supports pedophilia and now this. They should disavow this mass murderer even if he has nothing to do with them.

Blogger WynnLloyd November 06, 2017 2:48 AM  

Sucks. They were probably having a great time with the nice weather and Southern French chicks.
Freaking Muslims.

Blogger Lazarus November 06, 2017 4:20 AM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:Ignore the poop people, ignore the poop. You don't clean up poopster by picking it up with your hands and talking at it while it gets all over your clothes, do you?

Watch out were the huskies go / and don't you eat that yellow snow

Anonymous Ham Solo November 06, 2017 9:25 AM  

>than jihad.

Notice the media is not showing the much more recent photo of this guy where he clearly has a muzzie-convert looking beard?? Instead they keep showing that old clean shaven photo.

Anonymous Gen. Kong November 06, 2017 11:42 AM  

Do Middle Eastern Christians arm their congregants? I don’t believe the Copts do.

Dhimmis are not permitted to arm themselves under sharia, which is the basis for nearly all law in countries like Egypt. Copts are a small minority and becoming smaller all the time.

Anonymous Clintonista (where's my cut?) November 06, 2017 2:45 PM  

More than likely it’s another White, gun fetishist, Christian.

You mean atheist.

Blogger Gospace November 06, 2017 6:01 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Avalanche November 06, 2017 8:13 PM  

@124 "He was in the USAF from 2009 to 2013 and discharged. He was not court martialed, as you noted until (May) 2014. It is not clear if he already had the Dishonorable Discharge or if it was handed down after he left the USAF."

Likely he was in the brig (does the Air Force call it that? the Navy does.) UNTIL May and then was given the DD after he'd served his time? (That is, he was court martialed in 2013 and sentenced to time in the brig, then the DD was 'given' when he was released (in both senses). (I.e. He was not discharged until he had served his sentence after the court martial, yes?)

Or. just as likely, the press just got the dates WRONG!

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