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Saturday, December 09, 2017

Mailvox: low morale men

JAG defends MGTOW:
This is why I don't look down my nose at the MGTOW guys. Most of them are MGTOW because women have become so toxic through feminism that they are no longer attractive. Plus, many of these guys have seen their brothers, fathers, uncles, etc., utterly destroyed by the feminist court system that makes the man an indentured servant for the rest of his life after taking everything else away from him all because the woman got bored or some other ridiculous reason.

I realize that this is not a popular opinion around here, but those are my reasons for being sympathetic to the MGTOWs. How could you blame them, really? I know that lack of breeding is the biggest issue many have with them, but they are staunch allies when it comes to the issue of feminism.
How could you blame them? Easily. MGTOW are low morale cowards. From the societal and civilizational perspective they are useless parasites who, by their fecklessness, are helping the barbarians win the civilization war. Sure, they're vastly to be preferred to the feminists, foreigners, globalists, and anti-Christians who are actively waging war against Western civilization, but they are passively refusing to defend it in any way.

How are they any better than the very Western women they excoriate? They are, in fact, observably worse, as both are in it merely for themselves but at least the women may produce the next generation of Western children, even if they will surely raise them in a sub-optimal manner. Neither the feral woman nor the fearful MGTOW is capable of maintaining the civilization whose toys they enjoy.

If we aren't sympathetic to soldiers who run the moment they see the first casualties in their unit, we should not be sympathetic to men who run from women because they saw someone taken down by a toxic woman. The truth is that men often suffer the legal order they deserve, because they tolerate it. Would any Roman patrician have meekly submitted to being made an indentured servant at the whim of his wife and the word of a judge?

No. He would have killed the judge, the wife, and everyone who assisted either of them, then calmly gone home and opened his veins in the bath. That's why Roman law permitted patriarchs to kill those under their authority who crossed them in any way - because they were going to do it anyway and the maintenance of legal order in their society relied upon acknowledging that reality.

But the modern man values his toys more than his honor. That's why no one, including the legal system, respects his possession of either. Men could end the entire divorce machine in 30 days if they chose, but instead, they prefer to live alone as indentured servants or in fear of becoming an indentured servant. I am not saying "wife up those sluts", I am merely saying that living one's life in fear of potentially wifing up a woman who may turn out to be less than entirely faithful and interested in playing the divorce lottery is not worthy of respect or emulation.

A man of the West takes risks. A man of the Wests molds his wife and his children. A man of the West is willing to fight for his honor, his family, and his civilization. Success is not guaranteed. But then, when, in the entire history of Man, has it ever been guaranteed? For millennia, young men of honor have fought and died for what they believe. But for what, if anything, would an MGTOW risk breaking a fingernail?

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310 Comments:

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Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) December 09, 2017 1:13 PM  

The fact that white women aren't having enough children isn't due to MGTOW, it's due to the fact that they don't want to have children.

That is not true. Go read Lyman Stone.

https://medium.com/migration-issues/how-big-is-the-fertility-gap-in-america-fd205e9d1a35

Blogger SouthRon December 09, 2017 1:13 PM  

James take the advice you were given. Read here for awhile and get a real feel for the place.

Stop sperging out and defending yourself. And while this ain't a swordfight stop taking scripture out of context. Your no warrior monk.

At 59 We.Don't.Care. If you want to be celibate just don't proselytize the younger men.

Anonymous patrick kelly December 09, 2017 1:13 PM  

"Men are not the limiting factor in reproduction, women are. "

This is a territory to be re-taken and conquered, not wallow in despair of past defeats.

"The refusal of MGTOW men to get married amounts to nothing."

Evil is like darkness, it is the lack of heat and light. MGTOW lacks both. It amounts to nothing, and contributes nothing, it is a juvenile, nihilistic pity party and temper tantrum.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 09, 2017 1:15 PM  

"The Roman patricians are not good role models."

How long did Rome last compared to other civilizations?

Blogger Koanic December 09, 2017 1:18 PM  

> I do what I can, but there are only a couple hundred people in the world who care what I say. Likely none of it will survive me.

That is because your writing is a disorganized error-riddled mess, which I will fix when my project reaches that stage, or more likely you will fix when I give you the tools.

> A sick man ought to know better.

I do, which is why you should listen. To the Bible.

Your soul sickness is obvious. Your warped, begrimed worldview lens is obvious. Your Biblical ignorance is obvious. You think the Bible won't help, because you've read the notes, but you haven't heard the music.

You should be glad that suffering has exposed your soul's weakness. It might motivate you to put the headphone in your ear and fix it.

Everybody wants to change the world until they learn the cost. Superhuman results come by superhuman suffering.

“The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.”

Blogger WynnLloyd December 09, 2017 1:30 PM  

I'm currently in the hospital, waiting on my wife's C-section and the arrival of my fifth child, so this post has provoked a lot of thought.

The example of Japan shows how births alone are not the relevant factor. Keeping invaders out is. Yet the latter effort might require a heavy spike in white births to achieve in the future.
I'm torn. I really admire guys like Angry MGTOW, Howard Dare, etc. Yet we always need more white babies. Of course, VD makes a solid case that we have a duty to pursue regardless of the obstacles in our way.

Though I do question the number of viable mates out there. Obesity alone removes a huge number of women from the pool in my area. Same with single motherhood. Then you have women over 35 who are likely set in their ways. I'm teaching my sons to go abroad for wives when they get older, though that has its own set of problems and is not viable for everyone.

Blogger pnq87 December 09, 2017 1:38 PM  

@201 The fact that women report they want children on a survey - and not even a high number at that - doesn't change the fact that in real life they prioritize other things ahead of children. It's a cliche to say that women "want to have it all". In real life, as a group, women effectively don't want children.

Blogger wgmeisheid December 09, 2017 2:16 PM  

"I don't know what happened because I get the story 2nd hand but she starts communicating with her first love high school boyfriend on Facebook."
Sounds familiar.

I am sure there were signs of problems long before that happened. Not an excuse, but an observation. We sometimes forget that women are like flowerbeds, they need nurturing and the worst thing you can do to a woman is take her for granted because that make her feel like a servant/slave, not a wife/partner. In the end, nothing is assured and you have to work for everything and that includes keeping the marriage going successfully.

But I have yet to see a single example of that. All I see are whiny losers petrified by the thought of taking a risk and too shortsighted to see that risk of some kind is unavoidable.
One of my mentors was John Stott, a famous English Anglican evangelical. He led the celibate life so he could focus on preaching, teaching, and contending for the faith. He traveled constantly and would have had no home life. I found him very honest and direct. He is one who told me there was nothing wrong with being a bull since God made me that way for a reason and I wasn’t to listen to those who wanted me to be something else. He just reminded me that I was not to go into china shops because bulls don’t belong there, but go where my bullness was needed and be what God called me to be.

I'm frankly surprised that VD not only doesn't get it, but is so mindlessly hostile to it and so hateful against us.
I think you miss the point entirely, but defensiveness often results in that. VD is trying to save civilization, so it appears to me that he is supporting and drafting only two kinds of men: real men who create real families and raise up civilized children in a civilized home as a bulwark against the foes, who may or may not fight on other fronts, or warrior monks who contend for the faith once delivered unto the saints as their primary calling in life, sacrificing everything else for the cause. How and where these monks fight is dependent on their calling. All others need not apply

In any case, for the most part, it has been a bit lonely outside of my family - my old friends still alive can't carry on a conversation beyond the basic dailies and have no interest.
This is one reason I am here. I have starved for years for real dialog, debate, and discussion on topics of real significance. This place is water to a parched soul.

VD is calling me and others cowards without knowing us, based on our lack of desire to get married and have kids.
See my point above. That is not what he said. Unless you are specifically called and the bible is clear about that calling, which mitigates the command of God to Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply (created a civilized home filled with civilized children, then why aren’t you seeking marriage and children? I had a close female friend who sought my advice about accepting a marriage proposal from a man who didn’t want children (not because he felt called by God to ministry of any kind). I talked her out of it and she is now happily married with three kids and once thanked me for saving her from that life of barreness.

Blogger wgmeisheid December 09, 2017 2:17 PM  



MGTOW is retreating before engaging in any combat on a battlefield, except maybe against the fear in the mind, and surrendering that one.
A slight disagreement here. I believe it is retreating after injury and refusing to go back to the front lines. I see Vox sort of like that scene in Patton were he goes into the hospital and upbraids the guy who unwilling to go back into battle. Sometimes it is difficult to tell the truly shell-shocked PSDers from the cowards and self-servers who have opted out of the fight. Patton was disciplined for his action, but how do you tell the difference sometimes? I would argue the percentage of truly damaged who cannot get back into the fray are few compared to the ones who have given up and won’t try to get back in the fight. What do you do to people who in essence have lost all respect for themselves and blame everyone but what they themselves are responsible for in their plight? You challenge them and give them no excuses.
I have a guy working for me right now who is in recovery from so many things. He keeps coming back here because even though I am sometimes exceptionally hard on him, I am the only one he trusts to give him the straight unvarnished truth and he wants the family and life he sees I have. We all need role models. It time for us who are in the fight to be that to someone in a meaningful way.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 09, 2017 2:25 PM  

"Sometimes it is difficult to tell the truly shell-shocked PSDers from the cowards and self-servers who have opted out of the fight."

If they state that they have no intention of leaving the MTOW camp, they are by their own admission the second category.

Anonymous patrick kelly December 09, 2017 2:29 PM  

"the worst thing you can do to a woman is take her for granted because that make her feel like a servant/slave, not a wife/partner."

Guilty as charged, painfully aware of the consequences. My sins are mine, and her sins are hers even though we share in the pain.

Anonymous patrick kelly December 09, 2017 2:32 PM  

"I believe it is retreating after injury and refusing to go back to the front lines."

This is true, but don't form a club distracting or recruiting others away from the march to battle.

Anonymous SAK December 09, 2017 2:34 PM  

James, it seems we might not agree on what MGTOW is. So, for clarification, I take MGTOWers to be amongst the red pill men, who know the current culture and legal regime make finding a good women more difficult than in the past and that marriage is more likely to end in defeat and disaster than it was, but what distinguishes them from others is their choice to avoid marriage as a risk mitigation strategy rather than adjust their approach to women to make the best of the situation.

Looked at that way they are self-indulgent cowards, avoiding marriage and family out of fear. They are not noble defenders of the west, but its deserters.

More, as they know the truth and cower before it rather than helping, they are that most hideous of things: the corruption of the best that produces the worst.

The West has always had great men of religion, philosophy, science and the like who have focused on great causes to the exclusion of family. Their nobility comes from sacrifice, not running away. I don't know you, but what you've said here points more to fear than vocation. But only you really know.

Beyond you, most who choose to avoid women will not acheive more than they could as a father. Not even close. And to the extent they undermine family they do damage that counter acts any benefit they may bring.

So, maybe you and other MGTOWers are secret great men, but to the extent you MGTOW you are not great, and whilst I hope your efforts pay off I reserve the right to judge them by their fruit. And I certainly will not be holding my breath in wait of the day you can triumphantly ask me: "how about them apples?"

Blogger Maniac December 09, 2017 2:38 PM  

"And any single/childless man over 40 or so will, if he's honest and possessed of any manhood at all, tell you there's an empty space in his soul where a couple of children should be."

I'll be 39 in February and I never wanted children. And as someone else pointed out, the tremendous task of being a parent would be a worthwhile endeavor if those children were part of a culture that was worth preserving. But since the normalization of pedophilia seems to be next on the Gaystapo's list, well...

Anonymous Just Saying December 09, 2017 2:43 PM  

"Americans should take up arms against feminism" blogged a man living confortably in Italy.

Blogger Koanic December 09, 2017 2:58 PM  

> "Americans should take up arms against feminism" blogged a man living confortably in Italy.

That's right. When you find yourself living among evil cowardly men, the Biblical solution is to leave so God can crush them.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 09, 2017 3:06 PM  

Just Saying wrote:"Americans should take up arms against feminism" blogged a man living confortably in Italy.

He's right though.

Blogger dtungsten December 09, 2017 3:07 PM  

@my_opia

It's men who ran into the wall of lies while trying to create themselves and are now looking to understand what happened

I suspect this much is true.

Blogger wgmeisheid December 09, 2017 3:09 PM  

they state that they have no intention of leaving the MTOW camp, they are by their own admission the second category.
True. I have known men with PSD and they want nothing better than to get over it and on with their life.

"Americans should take up arms against feminism" blogged a man living confortably in Italy.
Cheap rhetoric by a coward, who spergs and runs. I would venture to say you haven't done 1/1000 of what VD has done in this fight. There are many reasons for many things that you obviously know nothing about. The front lines in this war are not all physically located and I assure you, he has taken up his arms against feminism in many very effective ways, as you obviously know since you are backbiting and sniping from the rear.

Blogger Alphaeus December 09, 2017 3:30 PM  

"don't proselytize the younger men" So, you think the reason so many young men are going MGTOW is because I am proselytizing them? If it weren't for us silver tongued MGTOW's, men would be jumping at the chance to wife up the sluts? I'd say, the truth is the opposite. I'd say the truth is men are going MGTOW in spite of 99% of the propaganda thrown at them, measured either by weight or by volume. I preach MGTOW the same way I preach the gospel: My way is to merely say that I believe what I believe and it makes sense to me and I'm convicted in my heart to believe it, and the rest of you can take it or leave it at your own discretion.

Blogger Alphaeus December 09, 2017 3:37 PM  

"VD is calling me and others cowards without knowing us, based on our lack of desire to get married and have kids." "See my point above. That is not what he said. "

VD: "How could you blame them? Easily. MGTOW are low morale cowards. "

I like VD, and I admire him, and I actually agree with his point to a certain extent, in that he is mathematically correct that we need babies. However, to everyone who thinks we need babies, as I do, I say, fix the problems that negate the reasonable possibility that normal average men will feel comfortable having babies. Don't just tell us to kill the bad guys, unless you start killing the bad guys first. Then you are just and fair to demand that we join in.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 09, 2017 3:42 PM  

"So, you think the reason so many young men are going MGTOW is because I am proselytizing them?"

Doesn't matter a whit. Are you trying? If you are, you're in the wrong.

Blogger pnq87 December 09, 2017 3:42 PM  

I wonder how many of the men here shaming MGTOW are actually prepared to take Vox's advice and kill the judge and their ex-wife if and when they do get divorce-raped? Because the divorce-raped men are the ones who need to go through with it to preserve their honor and restore Western Civilization, not the MGTOW. The burden is on you fellas! You can do it! I shall watch the news with eager anticipation!

Blogger pnq87 December 09, 2017 3:46 PM  

Just to be clear, I actually agree with Vox on this.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 09, 2017 3:48 PM  

"fix the problems that negate the reasonable possibility that normal average men will feel comfortable having babies."

When has something being comfortable or not had anything to do with it being right or not?

"Don't just tell us to kill the bad guys, unless you start killing the bad guys first."

If someone succeeds at their personal goal, as Vox has, without killing bad guys, the bad guys are not between him and his personal goal. They're between you and your personal goals. If you don't like it, you're the ones who have to fight.

I'll also state that there are many modes of combat, and Vox has been engaged in a few of them for quite a long time, so you're wrong even on your own standards.

Anonymous Ages December 09, 2017 3:49 PM  

I had some nice selections from the last chapters of Job (one of my favorite OT books), but Blogger ate my reply. So, here is the lesson of Job: Do not complain about what God allows to befall you, because man is nothing and knows nothing.

Better to say with the poet, "Even so, it is well with my soul."

Anonymous Blastmaster December 09, 2017 3:49 PM  

Married my high school sweetheart. Dated 5 years and married for 25. She homeschooled both our sons and keeps the home fires burning while I bring home the bacon. Truly great woman who goes out of her way to be a good wife and mother. She js also the most pleasant and personally fulfilled women that I have met. I watch the women at work struggle with the bs and stress and am truly thankful that my wife doesnt have to deal with any of that. Clean, peaceful home, healthy home cooked meals dajly and a low stres lifestyle. MGTOW is a lonely shitty way to go.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 09, 2017 3:51 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 09, 2017 3:53 PM  

"I wonder how many of the men here shaming MGTOW are actually prepared to take Vox's advice and kill the judge and their ex-wife if and when they do get divorce-raped?"

That'll be a valid question if and when it happens.

Regardless, something not being convenient or comfortable is irrelevant to whether or not it is right or necessary.

Blogger Alphaeus December 09, 2017 3:55 PM  

"I don't know you, but what you've said here points more to fear than vocation. But only you really know."

Will you be there to bail me out when my treacherous wife calls the cops on me because I raised my voice at her? Of course not, you have your own problems, and we as men are on our own.

So, I'm playing the hand life dealt me as best I can as I see fit. If you want to call it fear, go ahead, I don't care. I think I'm managing my life risks in a prudent manner that suits my personal taste. I'm a quiet living man, who likes to spend his evenings sitting in the quiet of his room; a pensive man am I, of philosophic joys, who likes to meditate, contemplate, away from humanity's mad inhuman noise.


Blogger Alphaeus December 09, 2017 4:01 PM  

I've been accused of being a coward who deserted my comrades on the field of battle, so, in my defense, I want to say that I was politically and ideologically and philosophically and spiritually active all my adult life. More often than not, I've felt like John Belushi in the movie "Animal House," who as the character Bluto said enthusiastically, "Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? NO!!! So, c'mon, let's go, who's with me?" And, remember how nobody was with him? That's been my experience. I'm ready to kick some ass, and I'm all out of bubble gum, but most other people, not so much. I'm open to reasonable suggestions, but I'm not keen on doing things too adverse to my personal interests, not when the possibility of success is virtually nil.

Blogger Koanic December 09, 2017 4:08 PM  

> I'm open to reasonable suggestions

Lighten up. By which I mean, go somewhere nonwhite and whiten it up. Whatever points your pecker. Do to them as they have done to us.

Then when you get bad news from the doctor and the Viagra stops working, rent a hotel room in Las Vegas overlooking an Eminem concert and...

Anonymous patrick kelly December 09, 2017 4:15 PM  

" I'm a quiet living man, who likes to spend his evenings sitting in the quiet of his room; a pensive man am I, of philosophic joys, who likes to meditate, contemplate, away from humanity's mad inhuman noise. "

Why are you here? This is not a quiet, contemplative space. Quite noisy and harsh.

Blogger Alphaeus December 09, 2017 4:16 PM  

"> I'm open to reasonable suggestions<
"Lighten up. By which I mean, go somewhere nonwhite and whiten it up. Whatever points your pecker. Do to them as they have done to us.Then when you get bad news from the doctor and the Viagra stops working, rent a hotel room in Las Vegas overlooking an Eminem concert and..."
If a man does that on his own, he's a vindictive wacko. If we do it as a group, however, then we are a noble cause and a Glorious Revolution.

Blogger Koanic December 09, 2017 4:21 PM  

> If a man does that on his own, he's a vindictive wacko.

Like Samson?

And you're wrong. A steady decentralized blood-letting is far preferable to a great cataclysm.

Trust an MGTOW to suddenly get concerned about his legacy when it's time for war.

Anonymous Godfrey December 09, 2017 4:25 PM  

Feminism is the rejection of marriage, children and natural general roles. Every civilization sows the seeds of its own ultimate destruction. Feminism is grows out of civilization and destroys it.

I'm astounded at how quickly matriarchy collapses.

Blogger The Kurgan December 09, 2017 4:30 PM  

Ahhhh.... no. I wasn't holding out muchbhope it didn't involve a lot of head on pikes.
I was mostly pragmatically curious as to the number of heads and the owners of them.
You know... for a hypothetical thought experiment

Anonymous Godfrey December 09, 2017 4:34 PM  

@227
Congratulations. You're a lucky man. Most men aren't mature enough for commitment and marriage at 18. I know I wasn't.

In this era, I recommend men seek marriage after twenty-five, maybe late twenties early thirties, and marry a women six to twelve years younger. He's established, she's fertile.

I speculate that that was the norm for centuries.

Blogger WynnLloyd December 09, 2017 4:56 PM  

The MGTOW movement does play a positive role in pressuring women to abandon feminism. I've seen it first-hand. The MGTOWs are mostly betas, not omegas as is often claimed, because most were burned before going MGTOW.

Many MGTOWs are MGTOW as a stage in the overall process. If we imagine the "red pill" as solely a rejection of feminism, and are still not free of the poz when it comes to race and identity, MGTOW is way more attractive. Only once a man breaks through equalism propaganda, does he realize that white babies are crucial, even if he instinctively knows something is wrong with changing demographics. Why preserve the white race when you still believe in magic dirt?

Ultimately, we as American men have to navigate the worst society in terms of misandry and have to compete for the lowest quality population of women (among white Women) of anyone. That will always contribute towards many men seeing marriage as a scam. That they are being played. At the same time, we have to continue fighting, as we are still desperate for white babies, and need them to prevent the end of civilization.
On a side note, that makes Asian chicks ten times the threat that MGTOW is (if you are in fact opposed to WM/AF intermarriage, that is). They are still operating on marriage 1.0 to a certain extent. That combined with Asian female interest in whites means that less viable betas can hop on a plane and snag a thin, young, and feminine mate, all without having to lift, embrace the red pill, gain confidence, etc. That's why so many expats in Japan are so militantly blue pill, and hostile to truth. They never have to rise above the challenge.

Blogger The Kurgan December 09, 2017 5:02 PM  

Well, give this man a cigar.
You and I sir, one day, should have a beer with Nate.

Anonymous Godfrey December 09, 2017 5:19 PM  

The MGTOW crowd are bellyachers. Yes, the contrived culture we find ourselves in makes it extremely difficult to find a mate. That's the point. The cultural elites don't want you to reproduce.

So instead of crying about it, get out there and do something about it.

Blogger kurt9 December 09, 2017 5:21 PM  

I'm somewhat confused here. I'm not sure what MGTOW means. Does it mean guys who are part of some kind of movement? Or does it mean guys who are simply living their own lives on their own terms and are not a part of any kind of movement? I assume the vitriol here is targeted towards the first definition and not the second.

Blogger Chris Ritchie December 09, 2017 5:23 PM  

I want to attest to what Godfrey advised. Married a woman 11.5 years younger than me. We are homeschooling and living on 5 acres we just purchased this fall. Married 11 years now. Six children. Happily married, but we work on it. I walked away from 2 other engagements before to ensure I found the right one. She is a solid-gold middle America "flyover country" girl. I encourage the other young men to have the balls to walk away if it isn't right. Work to find the right one, and don't give up. I prayed fervently and worked hard to make myself better to attract her. In the end, it just fell into place. No hard work needed. That's when "you just know."

Blogger Maniac December 09, 2017 5:26 PM  

Kurt9, the latter definition is what most of them/us subscribe to. Not all MGTOW forsake relationships with women so much as they forsake marriage to them. And there's no "leader," per se.

Blogger kurt9 December 09, 2017 5:35 PM  

Purge187, Would the definition of MGTOW apply to those guys who choose not to get married for any other reason? For example, they have no interest in kids, like to travel too much, or simply have other interests or goals they wish to pursue. Or is the definition of MGTOW limited to the more narrow definition of guys who are specifically critical of feminism and the lot per se? What about guys who are happily married but do not have kids? Would the be lumped in the classification of MGTOW as well.

Perhaps it is possible to be a MGTOW and not even know it. Is this true?

Blogger p_q December 09, 2017 5:38 PM  

@Jame
1 corinthians 7 (25-40 for entire context).
32I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. 33But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— 34and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. 35I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.

Singleness is coached in its efficacy in praising/serving God, outside of that it is not given a recommendation by Paul. This recommendation he gives is not based on instruction from God which he notes in 7:25 but his own reasoning and he works through his reasoning in the following verses.

The apostles didn't have the holy spirit at the time that they said that to Jesus and they were speaking about his extreme narrowing of the divorce window. Giving great to care to who you marry or counting the costs is different than putting the whole thing off entirely.

Blogger Maniac December 09, 2017 5:38 PM  

I've read testimonials from guys who were living it before they heard of it.

Blogger kurt9 December 09, 2017 5:42 PM  

Purge187, Is the vitriol expressed by many here directed even at the guys who do not identify as MGTOW and are simply doing their own thing in life? Or is it mostly directed at those who identify with the movement and are trying to promulgate it?

Blogger FrankNorman December 09, 2017 5:48 PM  

Would any Roman patrician have meekly submitted to being made an indentured servant at the whim of his wife and the word of a judge?

No. He would have killed the judge, the wife, and everyone who assisted either of them, then calmly gone home and opened his veins in the bath. That's why Roman law permitted patriarchs to kill those under their authority who crossed them in any way - because they were going to do it anyway and the maintenance of legal order in their society relied upon acknowledging that reality.


Kudos to Vox for saying this - I wonder how many people are thinking along these lines now.
The more I read about the bizarre parody of justice that the American divorce industry seems to be - seriously, in what other context does one party get to walk out of a deal at will, but still get to demand that the other party continue to keep their side of the bargain anyway? If you quit your job does your employer still have to keep paying you?
- the more I wonder how this can be allowed to go on.
Sooner or later, I said to myself, they are going to pull that crap on the wrong man. That man will then show up with a minigun and turn that feminist judge into a leaky piece of meat.

The man who will do this, ironically enough, might be there at all as a result of the Left's open-borders policy. A Mexican gangster, doing the work Americans won't do!

White Americans probably still have too much respect for law and order to start killing judges, but by constantly seeking to dilute the culture of the West, the Leftists are sawing off the branch they are sitting on.

Blogger James Dixon December 09, 2017 5:52 PM  

> Unfortunately, it's possible this civilization deserves to die.

It's entirely possible, even likely.

As Vox himself notes, most men are Deltas. They're the glue that makes civilization run. They go out and do the day to day work that keeps things from falling apart. They have the children that make the future possible.

If our civilization has denied them the ability to form families and have children, it's written its own death sentence.

Blogger The Kurgan December 09, 2017 6:03 PM  

Bullshit.
Had my first kid at 42.
And at 48 I ain't done yet.
And yes I got nuked.
Twice.
But like Japan, I rise again boy.

Blogger James Dixon December 09, 2017 6:09 PM  

>> Though I do question the number of viable mates out there. Obesity alone removes a huge number of women from the pool in my area.

This blog routinely has discussions on proper diet and weight loss. Peruse the archives. Obesity is a curable problem.

> Then you have women over 35 who are likely set in their ways.

And have only a few years of fertility left. That is a problem, yes.

> But since the normalization of pedophilia seems to be next on the Gaystapo's list, well...

Thus the recent t-shirt release.

> - the more I wonder how this can be allowed to go on.

The servants of the Prince of this World don't want us to reproduce. They've been running things for a long time. Why are you surprised that they've progress to that end?

But, as Instapundit likes to say; what can't go on, won't.

Blogger Maniac December 09, 2017 6:30 PM  

Kurt9, it seems mostly like the latter.

Blogger EmpReb December 09, 2017 8:27 PM  

Vox do you even understand the legal system in the USA now with marriage YOU CAN't fight back. Its either don't play the game or fight and run a 50% odds that the system will not screw you. You say fight back BUT AT WHAT. All legal options are worthless even with a huge bank account and illegal is pure suicide. You don't play that game you quit and walk away.

Blogger Nate73 December 09, 2017 8:34 PM  

There's one crucial difference between war and our current situation: In war you have friends, you have allies, you have brothers-in-arms. The Mgtow's I've spoken to feel isolated and under threat. There are some that are cowardly. Others are sort of like a soldier pinned down and under fire: he can't do anything without backup.

Of course that's completely different than advertising desertion as a great idea back in the camp.

Blogger S1AL December 09, 2017 8:36 PM  

You know... there are states with no alimony, if that's your biggest concern.

Anonymous TheTruthIsNeverAcceptable December 09, 2017 9:07 PM  

kurt9 wrote:Purge187, Would the definition of MGTOW apply to those guys who choose not to get married for any other reason? For example, they have no interest in kids, like to travel too much, or simply have other interests or goals they wish to pursue.

You mean those who are self-centered and driven by their pursuit of personal hedonism and all that has to offer until the fun becomes empty? No. Different category entirely, since they can't see past the mirror that charts their course.

Blogger Gulo Gulo December 09, 2017 9:57 PM  

Personally, Im a text book illustration of how NOT to do things. Married the first time to a career girl, she didn't want kids due to health issues- so I got a vasectomy. The marriage ended ...badly ! Remarried a previously divorced woman who was 37... and got the vasectomy reversed . However, between her age and the self induced problems with my pipes we were not able to have children. At this stage in the game, barring a " Mother Mary Miracle " we aren't ever having kids. Its a bit of a bummer - she would have made a wonderful mother. My wife is a very kind and generous woman who does a remarkable job at keeping our home.
All this to say...despite my absolutely screwed up decisions when it came to relationships..its far superior MGTOW. A healthy marriage will do more to help a man achieve his highest potential and give back to society than anything out there.

Anonymous JAG December 09, 2017 9:58 PM  

I figured it would be my turn for the Eye of the Dark Lord to turn his gaze upon me.

I admit my thinking is flawed and biased on this topic because a life long friend got destroyed in a divorce. I've let emotion cloud my reason.

I'll just take my lumps, and try to improve on my reasoning.

Blogger Thanks, J. December 09, 2017 10:21 PM  

Hey Vox I thought of this. https://youtu.be/SRjIhlt-WB4

Blogger CostelloM December 09, 2017 11:10 PM  

How could you blame them? Easily. MGTOW are low morale cowards. From the societal and civilizational perspective they are useless parasites

Well lets try to unpack some of the oversights by the dark one on this issue...

"From the societal and civilizational perspective they are useless parasites "

Actually single men pay more in tax to preserve the existing west per person than married men do. And bringing in more children for the divorce industry doesn't make the world a better place.

"How are they any better than the very Western women they excoriate?."

Playing a rigged game doesn't make one brave, it is the mark of an idealistic moron.

"If we aren't sympathetic to soldiers who run the moment they see the first casualties in their unit, we should not be sympathetic to men who run from women because they saw someone taken down by a toxic woman."

Unless you're proposing the violent overthrow of the existing US government this is an absolute false dichotomy. You aren't "fighting a war" by getting married. A much better analogy would be surrendering your guns, slapping the yellow star proudly on your chest, and then walking bolding in Dachau. There is no war here anymore than entering a gladiatorial arena meant you were brave for standing up to Rome. Making a stupid decision to voluntary surrender all your weapons is not a wise or intelligent move.

"No. He would have killed the judge, the wife, and everyone who assisted either of them, then calmly gone home and opened his veins in the bath. That's why Roman law permitted patriarchs to kill those under their authority who crossed them in any way - because they were going to do it anyway and the maintenance of legal order in their society relied upon acknowledging that reality."

Okay here I agree with you. If you want to fix society the 'brave' man must take up arms against the US. I'll be there right beside you while you bask away in... Italy? Oh you're not even here to lead the revolution. I see. Others should die first while you bravely lead from behind. uh huh...

Blogger CostelloM December 09, 2017 11:11 PM  

"Men could end the entire divorce machine in 30 days if they chose,"

Right so basically the man who gets married needs to be ready, willing, and able to die in a losing war against the United States government. I don't see that advertised on churches much but yes I agree with the sentiment, I just don't think its a price I want to pay to wife up some US slut. Too expensive. There is another path however and it involves simply leaving the US. Lots did that from Germany if I recall and I assume those were all cowards too in your book. At least the Indians did fight to the death (well most of them) and now they are a proud people who most certainly aren't stuck on reservations drinking themselves to death. Lead on mighty savior.

"A man of the West takes risks."

Hey when you want to return to the US to start rounding up judges and lawyers for orderly disposal let me know. I'll be right there. In the meantime understand how dubious this sounds when you are sitting in another country telling your former country men to fight knowing that no matter how bad it gets, you are an ocean away.

I say just pick up and leave. There's greener pastures out there. I owe nothing to a cursed nation that is worse than Sodom and Gomorrah ever were. GOD let nations destroy themselves and didn't show up on the doorstep to prevent them from doing it. I owe a nation that hates me nothing. America is doomed and pretending that you can somehow turn it around by getting married, the divorce raped, then shot by the police as you try to force your way into the court house to take out the judge is nonsense. Nor do I believe that violently killing your ex in front of your children is a great way of doing things as if their futures in the hands of the current pedo-heavy foster care system is a good thing (which is what will happen). There are some games that you don't play and this is one of them. You will lose, period, and the only variable is how many people you hurt in the process. And if you want to lecture us as to how brave you are I would suggest you actually return to the US and practice what you preach rather than signing up others for slavery and death.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants December 09, 2017 11:12 PM  

Quit pretending these sluts you're marrying aren't sluts, for one thing. If the girl you marry is a cheater, a cock carousel rider, puts out for you right after you meet her, you pick her up in some drunken dive, meet her on some hook up app, then you know good and d*mn well this is not an appropriate person to mother your children. You, my friend, are asking for it. I can't find it within myself to express pity for you when she reveals her true slutiness to you, when you knew it in your heart of hearts it was there all along. There are decent girls out there. Your job is to find them. They may go bad, you may go bad, but don't start with a flawed product.

Anonymous Anonymous December 10, 2017 12:16 AM  

I view MGTOW as a necessary part of the peaceful solution to the war of the sexes being waged against men by feminists. It is an acknowledgement by certain men that they don't have the capacity to reign in and tame a feral woman or sort out the good from the bad. Attempting to do so will result in the aforementioned no win situation, either you accept being frivorced and enslaved, or being forced to commit violence that will surely result in one's own children being orphaned.

As Dalrock has documented, the enemy isn't individual. It's a movement that has successfully inculcated itself in positions of power all over our society. It this context, it is better to limit interaction with women to that which is strictly beneficial for the men. This isn't about refraining from violence out of cowardice. It's about refraining form falling into a trap a hostile enemy has set.

Anonymous AB.Prosper December 10, 2017 1:25 AM  

I can't see standing up for MGTOW as positive going very well on a blog that is driven by a desire to preserve Western Christian Civilization

For those who don't know MGTOW as a movement is basically a version of 2nd generation feminism back when the less crazy feminists felt that it would liberate women and while not the main reason fro its existence men as well from typical gender roles.

It does exactly that. This is however dyscivic to say the least, a society in which men have no families or any particular reason to support it won't last very long. I suppose it might be plausible to defend it with machines but even a 1.8 total fertility rate cannot be sustained indefinitely and when too many men opt out of family for reasons good or ill, the society grows materially and spiritually poorer

Obviously we aren't talking about monks or clergy or the occasional celibate genius or Omega but a wider movement is not a good thing.

Now calls to man up or being accused of cowardice or homosexuality or whatever will have little impact on anyone not on a board like this . The system really is dysfunctional enough to make opting out seem like a good idea . Here? well if we didn't care at least some to preserve Western Civ we'd be somewhere else , and note not married, can't support wife and kids working on that

The real worry though is growing the "never opt in" crowd, somebody like say Terrance Popp gets burned and decides to opt out? This makes sense for him and he's done his bit.

What's not good is if a lot of young guys decide a life or porn, video games and MGTOW is preferable to the society they live and they never bother to opt in . This doesn't seem to be a major issue in the US yet but it is in Japan and elsewhere

With sex bots become socially acceptable, you could get a lot of herbivore men and an even lower birth rate and lower social participation . This won't end society but it will erode its foundations significantly and eventually the number of non participators will overwhelm societies ability to cope. We get a quiet desperate boring little dystopia

Still after all that I don't think most men in cities have much in the way of a chest or spine, this type of living tends to emasculate decent quality Western men.

If it didn't , the long list of abuses they've suffered would have been paid in full by thousands of Brehviks and McVeigh's

Since it hasn't and history shows it easy to fill up boxcars, it should suggest it won't unless something comes along to change things

Anonymous Luke December 10, 2017 4:37 AM  

Two ideas I rarely see explictly expressed on discussion threads on the subject of marriage:

1) Genuine marriage is no longer available for most American men. Sure, some guys get lucky, are Amish/ultra-Orthodox Jewish, or are rich hunky alphas who are willing to wife up a "6" (who doesn't watch TV, read magazines, or talk to other women, so she stays willing to be a wife). But, most of us are going to be in the situation of a dozen guys all seeking the hand of the one good woman. Several may improve their looks, wealth, or charisma enough to get a better short at her. But, no matter what all of us do, 11 of us are going to be SOL WRT finding a real wife (and trying to make a marriage with the other kind is way worse than lifelong bachelorhood). The remaining 11 guys are (or at least, the top 8 or so of them in SMV) are no more faultable IMO than someone who lived and died 100 years before Jesus' birth would be for not having specifically accepted Jesus Christ as his personal savior. How the h**l would he have done so without use of a time machine? Same with the remaining 8 or 11 guys in my example above.

So, when a requirement has become literally impossible through no fault of a man, then or prior, it logically and ethically releases him from that requirement. So it is with the general expectation that an American man marry now, and specifically that he do so before having sex. 95%+ of men do NOT have the "gift of celibacy" [lifelong, as opposed to say for 2-5 years from puberty to marriage], and when you take away the only alternative, you have given them a "get of of that commandment free" card. So, a Christian man in America now can opt to have sex without marriage, and not be sinning (as long as he, and AFA he knows, the woman, aren't currently married in fact as well as in name 0to someone else).

It's not ideal, but that's how it is, and IMO will be for years to come.

2) Not that many men (~250,000 year?) can do potentially do this proposal, but for those who can, it cuts the Gordian Knot on the 4-chambers-loaded-Russian-Roulette that is family formation now, at least for those who really want it and can come up with the 50-100 grand it would cost. That is to choose the Toban Morrison solution. That guy paid for an egg donor, gestational surrogate, and fertility clinic to produce him a healthy infant that was HIS genetically. As long as he never marries, cohabitates, or allows adoption of the child by any woman, he has negligible risk of child theft by a faithless woman. Sure, he'd have to spring for a nanny while at work (probably cheaper than a wife), but regardless of cost comparisons, what price is there on not losing your children? I wish I'd done this.

Blogger Koanic December 10, 2017 5:25 AM  

> So, here is the lesson of Job: Do not complain about what God allows to befall you, because man is nothing and knows nothing.

Really? How fortunate that an inarticulate God has you to provide the precis. If He had only thought to say that Himself, how might millions of Christians' comprehension been increased!

Real events do not have lessons. What is, is.

Anonymous Mr. Rational December 10, 2017 7:11 AM  

William Meisheid wrote:I would venture to say you haven't done 1/1000 of what VD has done in this fight.
If VD isn't giving them anything they can use, his vituperation is just abuse.

That means speaking at their level.

pnq8787 wrote:I wonder how many of the men here shaming MGTOW are actually prepared to take Vox's advice and kill the judge and their ex-wife if and when they do get divorce-raped?
How many can say so and not get picked up by the police?  How many can say so and not be picked up by a local smartphone and their words recorded until the death of all databanks, disemploying them unto homelessness?

Zeroh Tollrants wrote:There are decent girls out there. Your job is to find them.
If you can't tell anyone where they are and how to find them, you're useless to them.

They may go bad, you may go bad, but don't start with a flawed product.
That is why some of us are still childless:  we knew we had flawed products, and could not find better.

Anonymous Anonymous December 10, 2017 7:49 AM  

You clearly haven't done any research women bring nothing to the table. They are interested in marriage when they hit the wall which is 30 years old in Western countries. Women are no longer feminine and in fact they are very macsline. Most men want a femine women but those kind of women are gone. Most women can't even cook, a lot dudes can so what is the point? Women price themselves out of the market, expecting men to earn 6 figure salary but bring nothing to the table. The family court system can not be defeated less women stop uniting divorce. Women initiate 70% of all divorces. You're just a dumb ass just call men cowards because you don't know how to think.

Blogger CostelloM December 10, 2017 8:13 AM  

We should all wife up the sluts because muh white babies. No thanks.

Blogger Drew December 10, 2017 9:54 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Drew December 10, 2017 9:56 AM  

:Would any Roman patrician have meekly submitted to being made an indentured servant at the whim of his wife and the word of a judge?

No. He would have killed the judge, the wife, and everyone who assisted either of them, then calmly gone home and opened his veins in the bath. That's why Roman law permitted patriarchs to kill those under their authority who crossed them in any way - because they were going to do it anyway and the maintenance of legal order in their society relied upon acknowledging that reality.

But the modern man values his toys more than his honor. That's why no one, including the legal system, respects his possession of either. Men could end the entire divorce machine in 30 days if they chose, but instead, they prefer to live alone as indentured servants or in fear of becoming an indentured servant.


That is a quote worth printing, framing, and mounting on your wall. I think it also applies to same-sex marriages. If people who sued companies for refusing to serve gay couples got a taste of vigilante justice, they would never bother us again.

Anonymous Anonymous December 10, 2017 11:13 AM  

> With stories like these, I understand why in circumstances of rape 4 male Muslim witnesses are required.

No, 4 witnesses are required in cases of adultery. The reason for this is somewhat amusing: 3 men caught Mohammed's favourite wife whoring it up, and he promptly had a revelation from God about standards of evidence.

And that, in a nutshell, is why a caliphate would collapse into feminist anarchy and collapse in *exactly the same way* as *every* civilisation has.

Anonymous Anonymous December 10, 2017 11:22 AM  

@35 "You are a liar. I am dating a virgin. My brother is dating a virgin. My best friend married a virgin. Actually, all of my close friends who are married, married virgins."

And you (and all your close friends) are fools.

@37 "There are literally millions of young American women who are not "carousel worn sluts"."

There are about 10M 20-24yo females in the USA. "Literally millions" is not good odds, and in any case is plucked out of thin air.

As for men attacking family court courthouses: might already be a thing. But most capable of doing this have better sense and simply flee.

Blogger CostelloM December 10, 2017 12:07 PM  

You are NOT dating a virgin @35. You are dating a girl who took it up the ass, who had her hymen "repaired" i.e. surgically repaired, or who only sucked cock. That's not a virgin. Idiot. Fool.

Blogger Alphaeus December 10, 2017 12:15 PM  

"Men could end the entire divorce machine in 30 days if they chose,"
Dude, us MGTOW's end the divorce machine immediately, no waiting. For our selves, of course, but each of us is primarily responsible for our selves. Us MGTOW's are like Davy Crockett, who said, "Y'all can go to hell; I'm going to Texas." Remember the Alamo? Davy Crockett died there, because to him it seemed the right thing to do, instead of back in Tennessee, where the people were not as much worth dying for, being weasels.

Blogger Dire Badger December 10, 2017 5:31 PM  

MGTOW's are just another form of leftist. Selfish, cowardly, and corrupted. "dude".

Blogger Alphaeus December 10, 2017 5:43 PM  

"MGTOW's are just another form of leftist. Selfish, cowardly, and corrupted. "dude"."

C'mon, VD, is this supposed to convince MGTOW's to change our ways? How is this a compelling argument? You just try to get under our skin by calling us vile things like "leftists." I seem to remember reading somewhere that these sorts of statements are called "rhetoric," and not meant to inform, but only to manipulate.

Blogger Dire Badger December 10, 2017 7:29 PM  

It's very simple. No one is trying to convince Narcissists to do ANYTHING. It's an entire waste of time. You are unsaveable... Unless you choose to save yourself.

What can be done, however, is to stop your 'recruiting'. And don't even attempt to tell me that on the manosphere boards there are constant calls for 'you should go MGTOW' because I have seen it, again and again.

Especially people who 'champion' MGTOW... they are like those who 'Champion' homosexuality and other forms of selfishness. "Oh, it's perfectly normal and understandable..." No, it is not. Men FIGHT for what is right, even if they are wrong. Even if it costs them everything. Cowards surrender.

I was raped as hard as anyone by the family court system, and I was tempted to give up... but I recognize what it is, a temptation, sheer narcissistic laziness, and a demand for acceptance and tolerance of your wrongheadedness.

No. You failed. get back on the damned horse, or fight to change the laws that criminalize being a man. Do SOMETHING other than curling up in your volcel hole and trying to get other men to crawl in with you.

Blogger Dire Badger December 10, 2017 7:33 PM  

BTW- I do not speak for VD. He and I often disagree on some points of opinion, What I stated was my voice alone.

And I am frankly tired of coddling cowardice. I have seen it too often. You are welcome to brag about how amazing you are for surrendering over on AVFM without fear of being contradicted, because that board is nothing more than a leftist commiseration site, but place outside of your 'me too' echo chamber contain people who recognize your surrender for what it is.

Blogger Alphaeus December 10, 2017 8:12 PM  

Dire Badger says: "You are welcome to brag about how amazing you are for surrendering over on AVFM without fear of being contradicted, because that board is nothing more than a leftist commiseration site, but place outside of your 'me too' echo chamber contain people who recognize your surrender for what it is."

I'm a student of Sun Tzu, Master of the ancient Chinese Art of War. I don't believe he would counsel me to make a frontal attack on my enemy at her strongest defended point on her highest ground. He would consider it reckless and foolish.

Sun Tzu says:

3. There are roads which must not be followed, armies which must be not attacked, towns which must
not be besieged, positions which must not be contested, commands of the sovereign which must not be obeyed.
4. The general who thoroughly understands the advantages that accompany variation of tactics knows how to handle his troops.
5. The general who does not understand these, may be well acquainted with the configuration of the country, yet he will not be able to turn his knowledge to practical account.
6. So, the student of war who is unversed in the art of war of varying his plans, even though he be acquainted with the Five Advantages, will fail to make the best use of his men.
7. Hence in the wise leader's plans, considerations of advantage and of disadvantage will be blended together.



15. Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won,
whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.
16. The consummate leader cultivates the moral law, and strictly adheres to method and discipline; thus it is in his power to control success.



6. Therefore the skillful leader subdues the enemy's troops without any fighting; he captures their cities without laying siege to them; he overthrows their kingdom without lengthy operations in the field.

Blogger CostelloM December 10, 2017 8:13 PM  

@Dire Badger - so you're brave for being raped by the divorce industry? Did you run right out and murder the judge and sheriff, her lawyer and your ex? No? Then you're a coward. You think getting divorced raped and then signing up for this *again* makes you brave? Hey why not try that in Vegas! Remember - only losers and cowards walk away from a challenge. Also muh white babies.

Blogger Alphaeus December 10, 2017 8:30 PM  

"Remo - Vile Faceless Minion #99"

Remo, if you're here for the same reasons I'm here on Vox Populi, then we have a natural sympathy for the underlying sentiments being expressed by VD and Dire Badger and the rest of the anti-MGTOW contingent. I have recently quoted Sun Tzu, which I hope will be found helpful, for understanding where I'm coming from in my heart, and also as practical advice to actually help rebuild a world where ordinary men can get married and have families again, just like in the olden days. I'm thinking that marriage is too high of ground and too well defended by the enemy's best troops and most advanced ordnance for us to be going "Banzai" against it. Know what I mean?

Blogger Maniac December 10, 2017 8:36 PM  

I was raped as hard as anyone by the family court system, and I "I was tempted to give up... but I recognize what it is, a temptation, sheer narcissistic laziness, and a demand for acceptance and tolerance of your wrongheadedness."

And after being taken for a ride like that, you're encouraging young men to follow in your footsteps?

I'm starting to think that cucks like you and Brad Wilcox are motivated by a desire to see other men dragged down in the same ways you were. Misery loves company, after all.

Blogger tz December 10, 2017 9:53 PM  

We don't need "babies". I think RooshV could come up with a PUA variant that would insure there were a lot of white european bastards procreated. They will eventually be as feral as the out-of-wedlock blacks in Detroit and as hard to remediate if not harder.

We need traditional, two parent families so that the babies turn into adults. Yes, adults, not the permanent toddlerhood of the typical Millenial that throws a tantrum and needs a safe-space with a mommy substitute. Both men and women. DeToqueville noted the ideal where women were fully educated but accepted their role as helpmeet in America 1.0 to bring it to its apex.

Women can be tough or even fierce, but in holy submission to a good man as head of the family. Often this is not economic. Men simply have to provide, protect, and be decisive. We've distorted things so much that unless men act like brutes they can be considered wimps. And any woman who offers suggestions or asks questions is rebellion. We need to return to where we respect each other and don't accuse.

Anonymous Jimmy December 10, 2017 10:42 PM  

As a MGTOW myself, let me just put it out there that you can kiss my, and every other MGTOW's fat, hairy asshole. We don't give a flying fuck what you, or any other deluded fool thinks about our choices.

So, fuck you and have a nice day, dipshit.

Blogger Chasm27 December 11, 2017 2:37 AM  

I'm sorry if you're so worthless that you can't stand on your own two feet without a nagging voice in your ear, but you can stop projecting that onto MGTOW. There's nothing "passive" or cowardly about it. It's living life on your own terms, achieving what YOU want and enjoying the fruits of your own labor. And not giving a fuck about shaming attempts like this deluded rant.

I haven't been this stunned at the sheer idiocy of someone since I was told "MGTOW is for pussies, if a woman gets bitchy you just knock her the fuck out." That particular idiot is now single and on probation.

Blogger Chasm27 December 11, 2017 2:40 AM  

Enjoy marriage. It makes men strong alphas who love their lives, I see it every day. /s

Seriously though, you're so pathetic constant henpecking probably will "man you up".

Blogger rangerone314 December 11, 2017 2:45 AM  

How about if instead a Roman patrician killing the wife, the judge, and anyone that helped, he simply sat back eating some popcorn and watched Muslims running amuck slitting the throats of judges?

Does a person who has been divorce raped to the point of having to live in a car owe such a society anything? Screw Western civilization. It has become a corrupt, putrid dumpster fire that needs to be erased from history. When it is destroyed from within, I will visit the burned out ruins of a courthouse where judges screwed over men in divorce and family law, find the charred skeleton of a judge, and take a nice arcing urination on it.

Anonymous Anonymous December 11, 2017 4:08 AM  

After this blog post I am no longer MGTOW.

Thank you, Vox.

I assumed the honorable course of action was to accept bad laws, avoid them, and wait for them to change. Indeed, the idea of intentionally breaking bad laws and taking violent retribution on any who would enforce them is the correct choice.

Remarkable.

Blogger SirHamster December 11, 2017 4:37 PM  

rangerone314 wrote:How about if instead a Roman patrician killing the wife, the judge, and anyone that helped, he simply sat back eating some popcorn and watched Muslims running amuck slitting the throats of judges?

If the Muslims kill it, they keep it. Don't be a Muslim cuck.

Anonymous Luke December 11, 2017 7:46 PM  

Tz, you're close. It's not two-parent families that America needs more of. It's families headed by masculine, antiliberal men. Mothers post-weaning are optional; nannies can be hired, but fathers, not so much.

Blogger rangerone314 December 11, 2017 11:40 PM  

/// If the Muslims kill it, they keep it. Don't be a Muslim cuck. ///

They can keep it. And the STD's they'll catch they can keep, too.

Eventually the entire universe will die from Entrophy/Heat loss. The great prize for winning the breeding game is extinction.

I don't fight someone else's proxy wars. A cuck fights someone else's wars.

I don't give a crap. I have ZFG. Zero Fuks given. I'd be mildly amused if a nuclear war and radiation killed everyone.

Blogger rangerone314 December 11, 2017 11:52 PM  

LOL. Retreating before engaging on the battlefield. Kind of like Robert Beale, who went to prison for tax evasion and for threatening harm to a Federal judge.

How many years has Robert Beal been in prison, and can he still fart after being shower raped so many times?

Anonymous Mr. Rational December 12, 2017 9:56 AM  

As long as the universe is expanding, it cannot have "heat death".  So long as photons keep red-shifting there will always be a sink for entropy.

Blogger deti December 12, 2017 4:16 PM  

Patrick Kelly:

what's your story? what about your wife and kids?

Blogger Dire Badger December 13, 2017 1:46 PM  

Purge187 wrote:I was raped as hard as anyone by the family court system, and I "I was tempted to give up... but I recognize what it is, a temptation, sheer narcissistic laziness, and a demand for acceptance and tolerance of your wrongheadedness."

And after being taken for a ride like that, you're encouraging young men to follow in your footsteps?

I'm starting to think that cucks like you and Brad Wilcox are motivated by a desire to see other men dragged down in the same ways you were. Misery loves company, after all.



Are you retarded? Or just a troll? I said "Fight". Not "wife up that stinking whore".

If you don't understand the difference between 'fighting' and 'loving', you really do need to go MGTOW. and close that manhole lid after you, we don't ewant any idiots following in YOUR footsteps.

Blogger Dire Badger December 13, 2017 1:49 PM  

Remo - Vile Faceless Minion #99 wrote:@Dire Badger - so you're brave for being raped by the divorce industry? Did you run right out and murder the judge and sheriff, her lawyer and your ex?

If I had, would I be stupid enough to brag about it on a well-known far-right website where probably half the readers have a federal seal on their paycheck?

Get real.

Blogger Dire Badger December 13, 2017 2:10 PM  

"Living life on my own terms"
"My Body, My Choice"
"My HIV is not your problem"

Typical crap.

"Does a person who has been divorce raped to the point of having to live in a car owe such a society anything?"
Without Society you would be living in a hollowed-out Log, if you were lucky, naked, and eating Raw Grubs. You might be lucky and have a female of some sort that you killed someone else to steal. If you are over 25 You'd likely be dead.

Read about pre-social Humanity. Even Monkeys and wolves have a 'society'.

"I don't give a crap. I have ZFG. Zero Fuks given. I'd be mildly amused if a nuclear war and radiation killed everyone."

Then why the hell are you even running your trap here?

Blogger Zlatko December 14, 2017 9:44 AM  

The guy advocates that you should knowingly agree to a contract that stipulates that you lose your children and most of your stuff if your wife decides to leave you.

Man up and give your word that you will adhere to this. Sign on the line.

Then, once the woman executes the privileges you publicly agreed to grant her, and the judge enforces the contract, you should go kill them both.

Because apparently, if you deliberately took a risk, and it didn't pan out, then the right thing to do is renege on your word. He says, no "honorable" person would honor a contract they agreed to if it turned out to be inconvenient for them.

So now you've deliberately dishonored your contract, broken your word, and then committed murder. That's his idea of "honorable."

Then, you should kill yourself, so you don't have to face a life of ignominy. That's his idea of "courage."

What a fucking retard.

I suggest an alternative: don't sign ill-conceived contracts.

Blogger Alphaeus December 14, 2017 9:59 AM  

"Zlatko has left a new comment on the post "Mailvox: low morale men":
The guy advocates that you should knowingly agree to a contract that stipulates that you lose your children and most of your stuff if your wife decides to leave you. Man up and give your word that you will adhere to this. Sign on the line. Then, once the woman executes the privileges you publicly agreed to grant her, and the judge enforces the contract, you should go kill them both. Because apparently, if you deliberately took a risk, and it didn't pan out, then the right thing to do is renege on your word. He says, no "honorable" person would honor a contract they agreed to if it turned out to be inconvenient for them.
So now you've deliberately dishonored your contract, broken your word, and then committed murder. That's his idea of "honorable." Then, you should kill yourself, so you don't have to face a life of ignominy. That's his idea of "courage." What a fucking retard. I suggest an alternative: don't sign ill-conceived contracts. "

It just goes to show that no matter how smart a person may be, nobody but nobody is immune from suffering brain fart due to mental indigestion. When VD realizes that there are precious few Space Bunnies available for ordinary men, he will change his mind about insulting people who choose not to play the game.

Blogger Jed Mask December 14, 2017 1:31 PM  

Smh at you Mr. Vox... Smh...

I'd expected better than this: you're supposed to be first of all a *CHRISTIAN MAN*, right?

What's with all this "protect of western civilization" nonsense (*idolatry*) I'm sensing in your fiery "ranting words"?

Western civilization is good and all but it means absolutely *NOTHING* over the *KINGDOM OF GOD* and the *GREAT COMMISSION* which is *PARAMOUNT* in the *CHRISTIAN FAITH*.

Get off your "high horse" for a second, will ya?

You're embarrassing yourself lol. Smh... C'mon. Amen.

~ Bro. Jed

Anonymous Bob December 14, 2017 2:35 PM  

I didn't think I could have anymore contempt for MGTOW men, or Churchians, but these comments provided it....

Also, Dalrock has a post up about this where he completely misreads what you said.... Big surprise there... https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2017/12/14/no-respect/

Anonymous Anonymous December 14, 2017 2:41 PM  

You can have kids, even a family, without getting married.

Why in the hell do you push marriage? Why would any red-pilled man enter into a contract that fucks him over from the start?

As long as we're slinging insults, I'll just call that beta. It's not alpha to negotiate a shit deal for yourself.

Anonymous VFM #7916 December 14, 2017 7:54 PM  

@302

Did he? It simply looks like he took him literally, and made a summation of the argument advanced.

It's a fairly simple Venn diagram.

Blogger Austin Ballast December 14, 2017 7:55 PM  

No, fuck them because they are too submissive and slavish to destroy those who tried to destroy them. They are not men.

Ah, it was my fault my wife surprised me and bailed after almost 30 years of marriage. Vox, you may want to realize that all men did have as great a path as you had. The rain falls on the just and the unjust.

Quit AMoGing.

Blogger Austin Ballast December 14, 2017 7:59 PM  

Vox is pretty blunt here Bob. If your marriage fails, you are the failure.

I haven't read through all the replies yet, but the base post is quite clear. Those who fail did so because they weren't as good as he is. I don't support MGTOW as many practice it, but claiming risk is only for those who are failures is way off target.

Blogger Austin Ballast December 14, 2017 8:59 PM  

If the current system is so bad, why are only those screwed over by the system tasked with ending it? Shouldn't people like Vox be out ending it as well?

Or is that task only for the "losers" who can't control all their lives?

Anonymous Mr. Rational December 15, 2017 3:57 PM  

Spam cleanup on aisles 307 and 308...

Blogger Unknown August 01, 2018 6:16 AM  

There are plenty of men who have been screwed over in the courthouses housing the family court that won't grieve when the system and civilization that supports those courthouses is burned down to the ground by its enemies. Why should MGTOW feel any loyalty to a system that has proven that it is their enemy? Why should they not rejoice when the evil, petty, vindictive feminists are raped in the streets my Muslims?

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