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Saturday, December 23, 2017

The EU Commission is not the spirit of democracy

Although the commissioners seem to think so. I have my issues with democracy, but if one has to choose between direct democracy and limited representative democracy, it is now very clear that the former is vastly to be preferred to the latter, no matter what the American Founding Fathers wrote about "mob rule". Because a mob of people are clearly wiser and less corrupt than the sort of unsavory creatures who inevitably slither into position to "represent" them.
Although the commission likes to talk a lot about democracy as a European value, it defines this as what Brussels wants, rather than what the people want. Time and again, with a ballot paper in front of them, a majority of voters – from those in Denmark who rejected the Maastricht Treaty in a referendum in 1992, to Britain last year and now Catalonia this week – have ticked the wrong box.

I am not sure that Catalan independence is a good idea any more than Scotland’s breakaway from the UK might be, but the choice is surely for the people affected.

Nothing displayed the EU’s blithe disregard for democracy better than the reaction to the Catalan vote by the European Parliament’s Brexit co-ordinator Guy Verhofstadt. He completely ignored the fact that the three separatist parties had won a total of 70 seats in the 135-seat regional parliament – ensuring a separatist majority – and instead congratulated the pro-Spanish Citizens party which gained 37 seats, admittedly making it the largest single party but one in no position of power.

The trouble for the EU is that resentment over this ‘democratic deficit’ is growing daily. Across Europe – from Austria, where the anti-EU far-Right Freedom Party is now part of the coalition government, to Eastern European EU nations such as Poland and Hungary, which are visceral in their opposition to EU immigration policies – Brussels is increasingly coming up against the anger of voters.

In Poland, Brussels has inflamed that anger by moving to suspend the country’s voting rights in the EU after a dispute over judicial reforms that Brussels claims undermine Polish courts’ independence.

This attempt by the EU to make Warsaw its whipping boy – as though Eastern European members should take their subsidies and in return do the commission’s bidding – has appalled Hungary, which has now come out in support of Poland.
The anti-democratic EU elite well-merits being dismissed as Eurofascists.

Labels:

61 Comments:

Blogger Cato December 23, 2017 6:10 AM  

Theresa May is an utter disappointment to me a Brit who was part of the campaign to Leave the EU,

I cannot believe the concessions she is making to these people. She should tell them to take a running jump.

Unlike Poland who is actually taking a stand.

If there was any doubt that the EU affects sovereignty (as pro EU people claim it does not) this frankly should settle it - I mean they are effectively saying reverse your decision or lose all voting rights.

This all started when Poland said that there where not taking in any more refugees.

Anonymous Steve December 23, 2017 6:17 AM  

I'd be firmly in favour of hiring a Polish immigrant to do the job Theresa May won't do.

Anonymous Joe December 23, 2017 6:43 AM  

Cato, Poland made some blunders, namely cancelling the purchase of Caracal helicopters and blocking Nord Stream which was against Polish interests. That's the reason why Poland is being attacked over judicial reforms of the sort which were instituted in France in the 1950s. Macaroon had this explained to him very nicely recently.

Funnily enough Donald Tusk has recently come out against refugee quotas. He may be looking at Polish presidency in the future.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf December 23, 2017 6:47 AM  

God I hope Britain follows through on Brexit. It's great to see the Polish and Hungarians standing up to the Germans and French.

Red Pill Germany recently uploaded a video of a humorous case of xenophobia springing from a Syrian's wallet. It's a tale of brotherly love 🤣
https://youtu.be/EAB4uDGzTeE

Anonymous SAK December 23, 2017 7:13 AM  

I saw a head line the other day along the lines of: EU threatens Catalonia with separatism.

Threatens? They want separation. In the next millisecond I realised the threat was separation from the EU.

But still, I was left asking: threatens?

Anonymous Yann December 23, 2017 7:14 AM  

As some food for thoughts regarding Poland, in Spain the High Court is chosen in practice by the Government. Indeed, one of the key elements from the Catalonia crisis was how the High Court was extremely politicized, up to the point you can't barely tell apart between the High Court and the Spanish Government.

The EU NEVER had any problem with it.

Anonymous Philipp December 23, 2017 7:15 AM  

The mission of the EU has been since day one to abolish the nation-states. Here is a good article refuting myths about the EU (although a bit dated):

http://www.brugesgroup.com/media-centre/rebuttals/38-rebuttals/569-the-mythology-of-the-eu-countered

Blogger Laramie Hirsch December 23, 2017 7:21 AM  

Democracy cares about numbers and majority, not about what is good or morality.

With democracy, unity of the nation takes a back seat to individual gain. With democracy, you get oligarchies and tribalism.

Blogger Alvin von Diaspar December 23, 2017 7:29 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Alvin von Diaspar December 23, 2017 7:34 AM  

It's disheartening to notice how the anti-EU voices continually tout the Catalonia affair as proof of how flawed and rigged the EU is. Intellectual honesty? Nowhere to be found. Apparently, a decent EU should bully a member State, Spain, into renouncing to its National Sovereignty (which ultimately concerns, not what gets decided, but who can decide) and dismantling itself as a Nation State, siding with the aspirations of a fraction (approx. 50%) of the population of a region that has been a part of Spain for 500 years, and of course inflicting a humiliation of enormous magnitude and unpredictible consequences to the nation as a whole.

What could go wrong? What could go wrong if the EU decided to force France to unravel its Constitution and potentially its much cherished national unity, siding with the aspirations of some regional movement that seeked to destroy France's unity on the basis of petty intra-national ethnic differences and which, to top it off, had attempted a full-blown coup d'état to unilaterally bring down the present regime?

Would that be considered "interference"? Would that be seen as an attempt by an unelected bureaucratic beast to undermine the independence of a sovereign State which definitely did NOT join the EU in order to be cornered and assaulted by the Brussels Kommissars? Or rather, would it be seen as a conspiracy by a team of vultures, namely the nations that currently run the EU and which in many occasions have been sworn enemies to each other, to quarter a country and divide up the spoils?

For the sake of truth, while it's true that in the recent Catalan regional election the separatists won 70 seats (2 seats over 68, which marks the majority), it's also true that they obtained a total of 47% of the votes, and that if we had a decent electoral law in Spain they'd have obtained 65.

Catalonia is split up in half, and it would be enough of a reason to nuke Brussels if it ever coordinated an action to dismember one of its constituent states.

Anonymous Luke December 23, 2017 7:37 AM  

At least one thing to give the EU gov't credit for: their Supreme Court just decided that at least for livery services, equality under the law and consumer protection had some value after all.

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/taxi-app-uber-faces-big-eu-court-decision-012258746.html

Anonymous Yann December 23, 2017 7:49 AM  

Apparently, a decent EU should bully a member State, Spain, into renouncing to its National Sovereignty

Not at all. The EU is free to decide what's the policy they think it's the right one.

However, when it happens that under the same situation, the EU choses to bully Poland when they have been turning a blind eye to Spain for years, the logical conclusion is that the Polish Court reform is NOT the cause, but the excuse to bully Poland.

And the true cause is that the globalist EU is just bullying Polish nationalism.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer December 23, 2017 7:56 AM  

Laramie Hirsch wrote:Democracy cares about numbers and majority, not about what is good or morality.

With democracy, unity of the nation takes a back seat to individual gain. With democracy, you get oligarchies and tribalism.


We don't have that now? The piece that is overlooked when discussing a modern direct democracy is how much simpler law would become. At first the lawyers would push through the legalese 2000 page bills they push now. That would work until they burned enough people who then wouldn't trust them (which wouldn't take long). Next thing you know the only bills that would pass would be the ones that are easy to read and understand. Especially if their proponents pointed that fact out.

The other thing that would happen is large portions of the population would simply stop voting. It would become like jury duty. This would allow small pockets of people to run things for a while but as soon as it became clear to a sufficient number of people what was going on, those decision could be reversed very quickly.

The real risk with direct democracy are the waves of short term chaos. Years of decisions could be reversed in a week. If foreign threats were kept at bay then I think a society could learn to work effectively in it's structure as long as they had a sufficiently high average IQ.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 23, 2017 8:05 AM  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvl9N9GdraQ

Blogger Alvin von Diaspar December 23, 2017 8:19 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Alvin von Diaspar December 23, 2017 8:22 AM  

YANN

We agree that the EU is using this judicial reform as an excuse to bully a nation that, oh what a coincidence, is not showing much willingness to go along with the EU's policy of ethnically diluting its member states so as to eventually render said states mere empty shells that can be broken without much resistance when the moment comes.

Now, what's astonishing is that the same people who are most aware of this (the euro-skeptic right) are accusing the EU of not upholding its democratic values by favoring a member state's national unity. This accusation would "maybe" make some sense as a merely rhetorical, sophistic trick to undermine the EU's credibility. But the monstruous, uncomprehensible fact is that these alt-righters and euro-skeptics ACTUALLY believe in the validity of this accusation and would really like to see the EU bully Spain into unravelling its Constitution and ceasing to protect its unity, while of course all the remaining states keep their legislation intact, despite the fact that said legislations are in this respect completely analogous to the Spanish one.

Of course, all of this is deeply rooted in anti-Spanish sentiments that go far back in time and that have to do with the much written-about Leyenda Negra. I am sure that this hostility toward Spain would not be there if, instead of Spain, we were talking about France.

The EU is fake because it's a bunch of vultures. We're very different nations, we've been at war countless times, we have hated each other viciously, we hold deeply-rooted prejudices against each other. There's no white unity, there's no "sublime" Europe, there's none of that. In that respect, EU proponents are absolutely spot-on when they affirm that nationalism is war. It's no surprise we've had peace for 70 years now in Western Europe: it's been because of the EU. Take the EU down and see what happens.

I've made this point several times: Vox Day's alt-right principle that "we defend all nationalisms" is simply ridiculous, as most nationalisms have overlapping claims. Supporting all nationalisms is supporting endless war.

Anonymous Mathias December 23, 2017 8:31 AM  

@16,

Endless war is life. Without it, we become weak and sclerotic. Extinction soon follows. You are also discounting the power of a common enemy, and the fact that yesterday's enemy can easily tomorrow's friend, especially if the National Interest demands it. Look at the USA and Japan, for instance.

Blogger szopen December 23, 2017 8:43 AM  

Gosh, they are unpleased! What we gonna do, what we gonna do!

The previous government would immediately give up and the elites most likely hoped that this EU action would cause mass protests and that government ratings would sink. Nothing happened. They are shocked to find out that their authority and power is not as large as they thought. More and more "authorities" start to say that "Actually, use of force is justified when minority must defends itself against majority". You could say this is indeed a profound realisation for commies, but - Gee, they were clapping about legitimacy, "democracy means you fight in parliament and during election, not on streets" and so on.

Of course, there is zero chances that EU action would mean anything. With Hungary backing us (thank, Magyars!) we have nothing to fear. If Orban is with us, who cares who is against us? :D

Obviously, that would be an argument during the negotations over the next EU budget, but (1) we were going to get less anyway, even without Brexit (2) Poland getting less would be actually good thing for our economy, as donation create only corruption and inefficiencies. Much more dangerous are plans by Macron and his ilk, who is another one from the long line of western guys who think that open market means western companies should have every right to exploit Polish market, but if Polish companies expand to the west, that must be stopped.

Long plan should be PolExit anyway; unfortunately, in recent poll 11% my compatriots backed that solution. They still seem to have complexes and need to feel "we are part of the West!".

Blogger Johnny December 23, 2017 8:54 AM  

"It's no surprise we've had peace for 70 years now in Western Europe: it's been because of the EU. Take the EU down and see what happens."

Well no. The reason Europe has had peace for 70 years is that WWII was so horrific that nobody wanted to repeat it. What Europe is doing right now is the whip saw, the saw that cuts in both directions. Having gone too far to the right, you are now going too far to the left.

Anonymous Anonymous December 23, 2017 9:12 AM  

Alvin said:

"I've made this point several times: Vox Day's alt-right principle that "we defend all nationalisms" is simply ridiculous, as most nationalisms have overlapping claims. Supporting all nationalisms is supporting endless war."

First, logically, this is absurd. Nothing about nationalism necessarily entails war or even means that war--in the case of competing claims--must be the solution used to solve disputed claims.

Second, even if, on a practical level, war is more likely between states on nationalism, this does not mean that that is worse than the globalist alternative, which could include internal conflicts, civil war, etc.

Finally, from a purely utilitarian perspective, war may be worth the cost of the maintainence of nationalism and Western Civilization. Indeed, if the choice is a global civilization that resembles Brazil or Pakistan, then war may be a worthy cost to pay to prevent that outcome from occurring.

Blogger Red Bane December 23, 2017 9:26 AM  

The EU is nothing more than an administrative body, overseeing the mass migration of peoples from those areas designated for balkanization through the operation of the Yinon plan. Its job is to ensure member cooperation in their own destruction as part of Israels goal of dominating global administration in the coming years. The attacks on Jewsih diaspora are also engineered to attract Jews back to the greater Israel project. Israel needs the blood stock.

This is why the greatest crime for EU member states currently is refusing migrant quotas. National independence is a stumbling block to the Greater Israel Project

Anonymous SAK December 23, 2017 9:30 AM  

The reason Europe has had peace for 70 years is that WWII was so horrific that nobody wanted to repeat it.

You give them too much credit, the psychopaths who work their way up to power are not much bothered about any of that. WWI certainly did not put them off WWII. They are perfectly happy to go around committing horrors against 2 bit nations that cannot hit back.

They don't repeat it because they haven't figured out how. Nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons means everyone dies, on all sides, including the power elite. And so far even they have not been crazy and evil enough for that.

So, instead we got a cold war with proxy conflicts and empire building through deals, bureaucrats, and betrayal rather than by tanks and infantry. And whilst doing it they have done their very best to set-up all the ingredients for endless ethnic conflicts and civil wars in the mode of Yugoslavia.

Anonymous ZhukovG December 23, 2017 9:33 AM  

@szopen: I have long felt that the former Warsaw Pact countries should have formed their own independent alliance. Failing that, at least the Eastern European Roman Catholic countries should do this.

Russia would be quick to guarantee their independence and the West would also follow suit, after some bitching about it.

The West and the Russian bloc can then compete for favorable trade agreements.

Blogger Unknown December 23, 2017 9:59 AM  

ZhukovG, thank you my friendly pro-Russian friend. But we in Poland need a US alliance. That is the only way we can continue to guarantee our degree of sovereignty.

Distant empires are our friends, be it USA or Imperial Japan or whoever. Close by, we have Russia, Germany and even the UK in the not so distant past sided with our enemies, hence we allied with Napoleon Bonaparte. We can always count on our history of republican rule in Poland to garnish enough pro-Polish feelings in the US to have some alliance with you all the while you want to see a weaker Germany and Russia which is in your American interest.

As for Russia, you never lived under their rule, my American friend. Please don't speak for them and what Poland should do.

Anonymous Yann December 23, 2017 9:59 AM  

Vox Day's alt-right principle that "we defend all nationalisms" is simply ridiculous, as most nationalisms have overlapping claims. Supporting all nationalisms is supporting endless war."

The number of wars started by any nationalist government or movement is extremely small in comparison with the wars started by non-nationalist governments. In general, nationalism depends heavily on population's support. So they need a very good reason and casus belli to that very people that supports them to go to the frontline to get killed.

Blogger Johnny December 23, 2017 10:01 AM  

"WWI certainly did not put them off WWII"

What produced WWII was two things together. An unduly easy termination of the war for Germany, they were never even invaded, followed by an unduly harsh settlement. That produced a Germany that felt it was being punished for a war it never lost.

We got it half right the second time. They figured out that in modern times reparation payments are not worth it and passed on that. But they also assumed that Germany was the generic problem, and so attempted to turn Germany into a pastoral state that would bother no one. That held up (what?) maybe two or three years. Having produced a power vacuum in the center of Europe, "nature" in the form of Joe Stalin sought to fill the power vacuum and we almost got WWIII.

I believe it true that a breakdown in the EU could easily produce war, but stating it that way misunderstands the direction of causality. To make the point in another situation where it is more obvious, do we believe that the creation of the Confederate States of America was the cause of the Civil War? My contention is that it was the discontent that produced the war and the institution was only a byproduct of that discontent. Same thing with the EU. If you get war it will be because of the discontents, not because of whatever institution rides those discontents to power. Thus if retaining of the EU produces discontents, it will be the discontents that cause the war, and the retaining of the institution is apt to make war more likely, even if the fall of the EU coincides with the start of the war.

Anonymous Mister M December 23, 2017 10:08 AM  

It's one thing the libertarians get totally correct - the institution of government attracts unsavory creatures who 'slither' in to protect them.

Blogger Johnny December 23, 2017 10:11 AM  

@ZhukovG

That is what I have been thinking. There is a kind of obvious political union that should form between Eastern Europe and Russia. To do it they would have to overcome historic animosity, they used to be killing each other. Russia currently is quite corrupt; it would be helpful to settle that down. And then the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox divide. By my lights they should be working to resolve those differences. Just, you know, see how it turns out.

Blogger szopen December 23, 2017 10:24 AM  

@JOhnny
"There is a kind of obvious political union that should form between Eastern Europe and Russia. "

I disagree. Russia is simply too big, and the historical memory too painful - thought it doesn't mean we should seek good partnership deals, on equal footing. However, political union is out of question.

Blogger dc.sunsets December 23, 2017 10:28 AM  

The anti-democratic EU elite well-merits the guillotine.

They all remind me of the most repugnant little men, powerless and pathetic their whole lives until they fletch the right guy and thereby obtain an EU sinecure.

Blogger Johnny December 23, 2017 10:39 AM  

@28
"I disagree. Russia is simply too big, and the historical memory too painful - thought it doesn't mean we should seek good partnership deals, on equal footing. However, political union is out of question."

What occurrs to me about Russia is that they have too much territory relative to their population size. The situation invites efforts at conquest by outsiders. Thus ideally they should merge with areas with higher population. The more populous area would get the benefit of all that territory, and the Russians would have an easier time defending what they already hold. The state could wind down its militarism a little.

As for whether it can be done? I would say just see what you can accomplished. What I recall is that they managed to break up the USSR without war.

Blogger dc.sunsets December 23, 2017 10:39 AM  

As to democracy, the history of the late 19th century through (I'm guessing) the mid-21st is screaming proof that large scale, mass societies are a catastrophe for human beings.

Political government rots like a beached whale because of anonymity. As soon as the USA was so big that its president could no longer walk down the street unaccompanied, the die was cast.

Discussing democracy apart from discussing the scale of the polity is largely a waste of time.

And our current problems stem less from democracy (or its absence) than from unprecedented complacency, itself a product of prior generations' success and a mass social mood mania for the ages.

I only hope that the mania finds apogee soon, and that public complacency evaporates fast.

Blogger Akulkis December 23, 2017 10:48 AM  


"Well no. The reason Europe has had peace for 70 years is that WWII was so horrific that nobody wanted to repeat it."


WW1 was more horrific.

The THREE reasons NATO was formed:

1. To keep the Soviet Union out of Western Europe.

2. To keep Germany from invading France.

3. To keep the French from pissing off the Germans, yet again.

Blogger VD December 23, 2017 10:57 AM  

I've made this point several times: Vox Day's alt-right principle that "we defend all nationalisms" is simply ridiculous, as most nationalisms have overlapping claims. Supporting all nationalisms is supporting endless war.

You have made it in vain, as it is stupid and wrong. Nationalism does not cause, and has not caused, most historical war.

Blogger Johnny December 23, 2017 11:07 AM  

@31

What it seems like is that people are f'en stupid. Or more correctly, not given to thought except in extremity. Because our current situaion is safe there is no sense of danger, thus apathy. Our ancestors set us up too good. Instead of saying thank you ancestors, we say you were nasty and we are better, confusing humane with indifferent.

One way of thinking about the major moral doctrines is that they are an effort to run an impersonal, large scale society; a problem that has yet to be adequately solved.

Blogger Alvin von Diaspar December 23, 2017 11:27 AM  

VD

Nationalism is civilized tribalism. It's definitely more complex and sophisticated, but the underlying (biological, psychological) mechanisms are the same. And tribalism is a behavior sustained on an us/others worldview. It goes without saying that all humans are, in one measure or another, tribalistic.

The us-vs-others mindset is one of the most powerful cohesive and divisive (paradoxical as it may sound) forces out there, as usually the love for one's tribe is proportional to one's hate for the enemy tribe. Tribalism and nationalism are by definition confrontational, and two nationalistic/tribalistic groups will only remain in peace as long as they don't have conflicting interests.

It could even be argued that religious conflict often acts as a mask or a superstructure of these underlying national/tribal conflicts. You have it in Protestantism, which was in its birth inextricably tied to Germanic nationalism and a rejection of "Welsch" (pejorative for "Southern") interference in those lands, meaning interference from Rome and the Spanish Empire. Not to mention Calvinism and its intimate relationship with Dutch nationalism and anti-Spanish sentiments. Even the proto-"Protestant" movements such as the Lollards in England or the Hussites in Bohemia had strong nationalistic undertones (rejection of a foreign church, translation of the Bible and the liturgy into English and Czech, etc.). You have it in the Poles' staunch Catholicism, which has acted as a national aggregator and identifier in a context where Germans in the West were Protestant and Russians in the East were Orthodox. You see it also in Ireland, where faith and national identity are completely entangled.

You take down the EU, turn up the volume of German nationalism and French nationalism, and see what happens in Alsace (Elsass) the moment a separatist force gains some power. Or take down the EU and see what happens in Gibraltar. Can you imagine what could happen if Germany decided it wanted back, not even all, but some of its former territories in today's Poland? Or what do you think would happen between an independent Catalonia and France should Catalan nationalists from Catalonia start pumping money to Catalan nationalists in Perpignan and acting as a 5th column?

It's incredible that, after having lived for so long in Italy, you still have this very American mentality of a bunch of white Europeans sharing a land (US) and enjoying the pizza, the sauerkraut and the pierogi all at the same time. In Spain it takes 5 seconds for a French to become a "puto gabacho de mierda", as long as he bothers us a little. Don't wanna imagine what goes on between the French and the Germans, or the French and the English. Oh my...

Anonymous TheHiss December 23, 2017 11:29 AM  

@32. WW1 was not more horrific than WW1. There were far more casualties in WW2 and the proportion of civilian deaths was much higher.

Blogger Johnny December 23, 2017 11:46 AM  

@36

WW1 was a disaster for European global power but not so much for Europe internally. WW11 was a horrible business. Lots and lots of collateral civilian damage that seldom gets brought up.

Blogger seeingsights December 23, 2017 12:00 PM  

'
You take down the EU, turn up the volume of German nationalism and French nationalism, and see what happens in Alsace (Elsass) the moment a separatist force gains some power. Or take down the EU and see what happens in Gibraltar. Can you imagine what could happen if Germany decided it wanted back, not even all, but some of its former territories in today's Poland? Or what do you think would happen between an independent Catalonia and France should Catalan nationalists from Catalonia start pumping money to Catalan nationalists in Perpignan and acting as a 5th column?'

My reply: The Maastricht Treaty established the European Union in 1993 and introduced European citizenship. So for all the years before the European Union, all those bad things you list did not happen. So why should anyone think that those bad things you list going to happen when the EU vanishes?

The real reason why there was not been a major war on the European Continent after 1945 is not because of the EU, but because of US nuclear bombs.

Blogger Johnny December 23, 2017 12:10 PM  

"The real reason why there was not been a major war on the European Continent after 1945 is not because of the EU, but because of US nuclear bombs."

Lacking US involvement it is highly likely that the USSR would have taken the the place at least to the Spanish border. Stalin had it in mind and they had the army to do it. Plus both France and Italy were close to going communist on the political front and Germany was wrecked. If you like unions it would have been a grand union, but not a very happy one.

Blogger Resident Moron™ December 23, 2017 12:38 PM  

Like nazi Germany, the more territory the Soviets took after Germany’s defeat, the shorter would have their empire lasted.

Blowing up a balloon with even more air doesn’t make it stronger, inside or out.

Aswas noted above, present day Russia suffers from much the same problem; the Christian slavs are too thin on the ground.

Blogger szopen December 23, 2017 12:44 PM  

@30
" The more populous area would get the benefit of all that territory, and the Russians would have an easier time defending what they already hold."
... Poles settling in Russia would become russified and be lost for Polish nation. That would strengthen Russia, but no gain for Poland.

I would not preclude alliance, but an union? Russia has 143 millions of citizens. Poland has almost 40 millions and shrinking; Ukraine 50 milions, Belarus 10 milions, Czech and Hungary about that ... So we have the largest states and still less population than Russia alone. The other countries (slovakia, croatia, slovenia, baltic states) are really small and adding them do not change the picture. All in all, Russia would inevitably dominate any kind of alliance or union, with inevitable tensions. Either it would act according to its size, which would cause resentment from the other nations - or it would try to act as it has less population and weight, which would cause resentments by Russians.

For some time I flirted with panslavism and I participated in panslavic forum; but quite a few Russians stated things which - if representative of Russian point of view - means any such union is impossible. For example, one stated that we all should learn Russian, that we should switch to cyryllic, or that in future union it would be obvious that the capital would be in Moscow, the currency will be rubles, and the official language would be Russian. In other words - it would be Russian empire.

So yeah, alliance, partnership - why not. Friendship? Sure. But any kind of union is out of question.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch December 23, 2017 12:49 PM  

@13 Democracies of any stripe--whether parliamentary or republican--are terrible for large populations. Direct democracy is even worse. Democracy should be reserved for very small groups, and I'm talking in the dozens. One outcome of democracy is a mob. Another outcome is that democracy lends itself naturally and inherently to a team of oligarchs who conspire and pool their resources to take advantage of the system and work it against everyone else. I suppose this is just another one of those areas where I disagree with VD. But, well, there you are.

Blogger Alvin von Diaspar December 23, 2017 12:49 PM  


seeingsights

"
My reply: The Maastricht Treaty established the European Union in 1993 and introduced European citizenship. So for all the years before the European Union, all those bad things you list did not happen. So why should anyone think that those bad things you list going to happen when the EU vanishes?

The real reason why there was not been a major war on the European Continent after 1945 is not because of the EU, but because of US nuclear bombs.
"


Ok, you got me there. I confused the EU with its predecessor, the EC. And by no means will I contest your argument about the US nuclear bombs. I accept it.

But my point still stands. First by virtue of post-war anihilation and exhaustion and US military control, then through the CE/EU (tutelaged by the US), but in any case through the asphyxiation of European nationalisms, Europe has remained peaceful. And look, I'm never going to defend the EU as it currently operates and its conscious undermining of national identities. However, this extolling of nationalism as a panacea, as a treatment with no side-symptoms, is naive at best. Nationalism has a dangerous and destructive side. And no, I'm not talking about this post-modern kitsch celebration of Europeanness that you see in some identitarian videos with blond girls running on a prary wearing flowers on their heads. That's not nationalism, that's autism.

Anonymous Yann December 23, 2017 1:43 PM  

Or take down the EU and see what happens in Gibraltar.

I can tell you what would happen: NOTHING.

As it didn't happened for three centuries. To put it into perspective: Gibraltar was taken from Spain even before the 13 Colonies existed.

The EU has no merit there. What's more: if they insist in keeping North-Ireland and Gibraltar inside the EU, that could be very well the seed for a future war.

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky December 23, 2017 1:49 PM  

Democracies have got to do their job if they want to stick around. They aren't looking too good right now.

Anonymous CC December 23, 2017 2:37 PM  

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10874230/Jean-Claude-Juncker-profile-When-it-becomes-serious-you-have-to-lie.html

"The longest serving veteran of Brussels deal-making, until last year Jean-Claude Juncker headed the powerful Eurogroup meetings of eurozone finance ministers firefighting the crisis in the EU’s single currency - an institution he had helped create, warts and all, in the Nineties.

"We decide on something, leave it lying around and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back," he said of the euro's introduction.

At the height of the eurozone crisis, Mr Juncker was described as the “master of lies” for organising a meeting of finance ministers to talk about whether Greece could remain in the single currency and then trying to deny it was taking place."

There is nothing new here. These evil people will not stop (especially lying) until they get their European Soviet Union and drag all European societies into the inferno.

Theresa May, for one, is doing exactly what she was bidden to do and nobody should be surprised at these traitor's actions any more. These people won't ever be swayed by arguments, appeals to the good or the mandate of the people...

Blogger VD December 23, 2017 2:38 PM  

It's incredible that, after having lived for so long in Italy, you still have this very American mentality of a bunch of white Europeans sharing a land (US) and enjoying the pizza, the sauerkraut and the pierogi all at the same time. In Spain it takes 5 seconds for a French to become a "puto gabacho de mierda", as long as he bothers us a little. Don't wanna imagine what goes on between the French and the Germans, or the French and the English. Oh my...

I don't. At all. You're simply stupid. And wrong.

Blogger Propagandist Hacker December 23, 2017 2:42 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Propagandist Hacker December 23, 2017 2:43 PM  

200+ years ago the founding plutocrats squelched what they called 'an excess of democracy' in america by illegally discarding the articles of confederation and installing the undemocratic constitution, which was used to 'divide et impera,' in the words of madison....and now the current plutocrats have pulled the same trick in europe...but the europeans are smarter than americans, and will likely end the EU soon

Blogger James December 23, 2017 3:33 PM  

Propagandist Hacker wrote:...but the europeans are smarter than americans, and will likely end the EU soon

Oh, yeah, the Europeans are SO much smarter. Since the formation of the Bank of England, and subsequent Central Banks in other countries, they’re been slaves to debt. This slavery gave them the option to bankrupt all the citizens of their country or create large standing armies to siphon off the wealth of the country more slowly. They eventually began colonization as a means to pay the interest on their debt by robbing the colonial nations to pay it. In addition, because of their large standing armies, they realized they could use them and have a losing country pay off the debt, or if they lost, just tax the “peasants”. They’ll understand because, hey, they lost. Anyone that has paid attention to the 19th and 20th century realizes the truth of Orwell’s line “perpetual war for perpetual peace”. No, present day Europeans are not more intelligent than White Americans. They just have a debilitating malaise after a century and a half of modern warfare. The best breeding stock in many Western European countries was killed off in WWI and II and helps to explain the deficiency of masculinity in current Western countries. The countries that are resisting the EU now are in Eastern Europe, which have not been major players in some time.

Blogger Alvin von Diaspar December 23, 2017 3:36 PM  

VD

I don't know if calling me stupid twice is a sign of your childishness or your hubris. In any case, neither is a virtue.

You have not disproven any of my points. If you think that dismantling the EU and ratcheting up European nationalisms is not leading to conflict and eventually war, you are either crazy or on drugs.

Blogger seeingsights December 23, 2017 5:30 PM  

Nationalism per se does not lead to conflict. It's the other way around: attempts to suppress nationalism lead to conflict. Examples would be mutli-national empires trying to prevent separatism to the EU striking against European nation trying to assert their sovereignty.

Really, if a nation or a people wish to separate themselves peacefully from a government, what is sort wrong with that?

Blogger Laramie Hirsch December 23, 2017 7:26 PM  

no matter what the American Founding Fathers wrote about "mob rule".

Even Thomas Jefferson despised the idea of us being a democracy, preferring us to be an aristocracy. Furthermore, he knew America had an expiration date:

"I think that our governments will remain virtuous for many centuries; as long as they are chiefly agricultural: and this will be as long as there are vacant lands in any part of America. When they get piled upon one another as in the large cities of Europe, they will become corrupt as in Europe."

On the other hand, Jefferson was a megalomaniac, so there's also that.

Blogger Daniel Paul Grech Pereira December 23, 2017 9:29 PM  

> a mob of people are clearly wiser and less corrupt than the sort of unsavory creatures who inevitably slither into position to "represent" them.

On target.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch December 24, 2017 12:49 AM  

@54 On target.

I disagree.

How can a mob of people be wiser than a group of corrupt people? Is there some magical spirit of goodness--a zeitgeist--that manifests itself when enough people come together? Is that what you agree with?

How is it that a mob is more moral than a group of conspirators? Do the greater numbers make them more right, just, and true?

Blogger Laramie Hirsch December 24, 2017 4:52 AM  

@54 In fact, now that I think of it, having a mob in charge of our destiny only increases the variables and misdirection of our culture and welfare.

Blogger Antonio From Spain December 24, 2017 3:03 PM  

“The EU Commission is not the spirit of democracy” of course it isn’t. Neither are the Catalanists.

“Nothing displayed the EU’s blithe disregard for democracy better than the reaction to the Catalan vote by the European Parliament’s Brexit co-ordinator Guy Verhofstadt. He completely ignored the fact that the three separatist parties had won a total of 70 seats in the 135-seat regional parliament – ensuring a separatist majority – and instead congratulated the pro-Spanish Citizens party which gained 37 seats, admittedly making it the largest single party but one in no position of power.”

Well, of course he congratulated them. And, of course, the biased writer meticulously avoids mentioning why.

Even before getting into the details, let’s ponder this: Ponsatí admitted yesterday that “we have not yet reached the 50% of the votes and that forces us to be honest: the [time for the] ratification of the declaration has not yet arrived.” https://twitter.com/ClaraPonsati/status/944572924656267264 yet foreign cheerleaders who do not even speak the language pretend that these people have won. Bravo!

First, Ciutadans is by far the most pro-EU party in Spain, and increasingly so. They are even more explicitly pro-EU than the two large traditional status quo parties. At this point, the writer calling Ciutadans “pro-Spanish” is misleading at best. So naturally, the EU is delighted. They root for their own. There is nothing odd or antidemocratic about that in particular.

Second, Ciutadans, only got their first seats in the Catalan parliament in 2006; they got 3 then, which made them the smallest of the six parties there. Now they are the largest of seven. A spectacular success in just 11 years. Much as I dislike them, there is every reason to congratulate them, particularly in a system that has been brutally harsh to outsiders and minority groups. This by the way, is in sharp contrast to CSQP, the closest thing to an anti-EU party in Catalonia, who have dropped to 8 seats. Consider this: out of 135 seats, 127 went to explicitly pro-EU parties, and the other 8 are not explicitly against it. Regardless of our preferences, such trends should not be so carelessly overlooked when pondering the future of the EU, particularly by those who pretend to place so much importance on vote counting.

Third, the independentists—who use the EU flag all the time and love to claim their love of it—have systematically lied to the Catalan population about their actual chances of becoming a EU member state, claiming that it would be automatic and that they would be greeted with open arms. The EU has repeatedly reminded them of the actual mechanism—which is characteristically bureaucratic, slow, burdensome, and requires unanimous approval by member states—yet they have gone on with the blatant lies. To say nothing of the mess they’ve made with their triggering the euro-order. Very telling, how the writer sees no problem with those persistent and blatant lies. It is oh so democratic do lie to your own people when the self-proclaimed nationalists do it! And it is so antidemocratic to set the record straight when the others do it!

(cont)

Blogger Antonio From Spain December 24, 2017 3:03 PM  

(cont)

Fourth, Puigdemont’s party got their worst results ever; less than half the seats of their best result, and 20 seats below their average. This is the first time that they don’t make it to number one, since the first elections of 1980. No reason for congratulations there. By the way, isn’t it the hallmark of democracy when, in a system with half a dozen parties, the same party goes on winning every one of the eleven elections, often with landslides, for thirty-five years? Well, in the “spirit of democracy” the party that just happens to have complete control of the TV, radio, newspapers, education system, healthcare system, police, and all cultural entities. A regime in “the spirit of democracy”. If you disagree you might be a fascist.

Fifth, the “Declaració unilateral d'independència” was not Puigdemont’s idea, but an imposition by the CUP. Furthermore, Puigdemont’s own leadership of the “procés” was a CUP imposition to sideline Mas. And now the CUP has been harshly punished to just four seats (nobody got less than that—llàstima, Olid!) becoming just a nuisance to both JxCAT and ERC.

Sixth, the separatist block got 70 seats? Bullshit. That’s not a block—they are farther from being a block than Maragall’s failed Ulivo and faked sorpasso. Now, the CUP is toxic. Oriol and his posterboy have been negotiating with Soraya for months, and Rovira says that when they said “Declaració unilateral d'independència,” they never meant unilateral, that was just Spain twisting their words. Again, see Ponsatí’s tweet about they being below 50%. Even Colau’s fatigued Antifa are looking the other way—yet another dud in Iglesias’ arsenal.

Seventh, as I said here over two years ago, Margallo has kept the globalist master key in his drawer all this time. This is not about nationalist democrats standing up to the antidemocratic EU. It’s all a distraction maneuver to execute the pincer movement.

And the problem immediately ahead, as Puig says, is “a climate of opinion saturated with myths and contradictions.” https://elpais.com/ccaa/2017/12/10/catalunya/1512938685_129904.html and that’s no place to go looking for “the spirit of democracy.”

Blogger Antonio From Spain December 24, 2017 3:11 PM  

Oh, and Verhofstadt is a member Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe group, just as Ciutadans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_of_Liberals_and_Democrats_for_Europe_group#Membership_by_party_in_Sixth,_Seventh_and_Eighth_Parliaments

Anonymous DirkH December 24, 2017 9:14 PM  

Please get yourself a PDF of Coudenhouve-Kalergi's PAN-EUROPA (1925) , the foundation document of the pan european movement. KALERGI was 33rd degree Freemason and got funding from Warburg the Elder. He proposed in this pamphlet that the future European would be of mixed Eurasian-negroid race, outwardly not unlike the Old Egyptians, (the old pyramid dream of the freemason), lorded over by the Geistesaristokratie (intellectual aristocracy or spiritual aristocracy) of Europe, which was obviously the Jews of Europe; also notice, aristocracy != democracy. Meaning: No voice for the EUropean PEOPLES. KALERGI was not a fringe figure: Austrian Aristocrat of mixed Dutch-Japanese heritage , he became the first recipient of the proto EU's Karlspreis, Charlemagne price in the 1950ies; he also originated the idea of using Beethoven's Ode An Die Freude's first beats as the EU's "hymn".

It was NEVER meant to be democratic. Later, MONNET after WW2 insisted that democracy had failed because it gave rise to Hitler; MONNET with SCHUMANN being one of the 1950ies architects of the EWG, the proto-EU.

This is all going exactly as planned by the Jewish-financed freemason.

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