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Tuesday, December 19, 2017

Why can how be so?

The media finds it hard to grasp the obvious fact that people simply don't believe them anymore:
The critics loved “Star Wars: The Last Jedi” — The Times’s Manohla Dargis raved about it, and she wasn’t alone. Rotten Tomatoes, aggregating critics’ reviews, rated the latest chapter in the saga 93 percent fresh. But fans? Not so much. At least if you go by Rotten Tomatoes, which says moviegoers posting on its site rated the film 56 percent fresh.

But wait! CinemaScore, which conducts exit polls at theaters (that is, it talks to actual, live human beings), says moviegoers gave “The Last Jedi” a solid A. And the box office was stratospheric: $450 million worldwide in one weekend, making it the second biggest opening ever.

What’s going on? There are several theories:

1) It’s straight-up trolling. Deadline.com pointed out that nothing prevents the same person from repeatedly logging onto Rotten Tomatoes and dragging down the audience score. (And one Facebook user claims to have done just that.)

2) The adventures of Rey and company (including the villainous Snoke) were genuinely disappointing. As the Hollywood Reporter noted, fans hoped that the writer-director Rian Johnson’s follow-up to “The Force Awakens” would explain, among other mysteries, who Rey’s parents are, and the answer (nobody special) wasn’t very satisfying.

3) It’s a function of how the internet has affected fandom. Vanity Fair argues that the web fosters the kind of scrutiny that few films can withstand.

On Facebook, we asked what you thought of the movie and what explains the divide between fans and critics. More than 800 responses suggested that perhaps the Rotten Tomatoes fan rating wasn’t so far off. A lot of you really did not like “The Last Jedi.”
The truth is that post-GamerGate, only idiots and SJWs pay any attention to what the critics, who are at best converged and at worst corrupted and in the direct pay of the content-producing corporations, say anymore. And in this particular case, the movie not only sucked, but betrayed multiple generations of fans.

UPDATE: After 4 days, TLJ is already underperforming TFA by $46.5 million and 19.2 percent. By comparison, Attack of the Clones outperformed The Phantom Menace by $25 million and 26.4 percent. That means that despite the massive numbers, in terms of expectations it is a box office bomb. If the fall-off picks up pace, and based on the media's defensiveness I suspect it will, TLJ will take in less than two-thirds of what TFA did.

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142 Comments:

Blogger Antony December 19, 2017 12:56 PM  

OT - but as Sarah Silverman was recently blogged about - she is now claiming patriotism is perverted ; http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2017/12/19/sarah-silverman-patriotism-perverted/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

Blogger James Dixon December 19, 2017 12:58 PM  

The question to ask isn't "is the media lying to us", but rather "how is the media lying to us, and why?"

Anonymous trev006 December 19, 2017 12:59 PM  

It's down to 55%, now. Probably where it will stay. But hardly the best outcome post TFA.

Disney has always been good at making insane amounts of money. Elsa dolls are a hot commodity years after Frozen stopped being the right now fad. Does Disney really want to risk white fans of ESPN and Star Wars becoming disconnected... or much worse, racially woke? Or will they eat losses on some properties, confident they can make it back on others?

I think it's 4: the Internet makes it clear that the critics are gaslighting you about a movie's obvious, hilarious flaws.

Anonymous Randomatos December 19, 2017 1:01 PM  

My brother wants to like this, because it's labeled "Star Wars" and has shiny space-battles. I want to space the corpse-looters who made it, and leave their frozen corpses in orbit as a warning/reminder to WholyWeird. The critics who pretend it's a masterpiece can go pound sand.

Anonymous Looking Glass December 19, 2017 1:02 PM  

It's visually well-crafted spectacle and no one has said anything otherwise about the visuals & production design. You'll generally leave a movie with a high rating when it gives you something enjoyable like that.

However, since SJWs can't do introspection, they can't see people would start to think about, "wait, why did...?" or "that doesn't make any sense" or "would Luke do that?". They made a pretty movie that looked the part, but it was really wearing the predecessors as a corpse.

I'm really looking forward to the BluRay release, though. There's going to be some hilarious think-pieces coming our way and I can't wait. In the new series, the only competent people are a bunch of white, British-sounding Space Nazis.

Somehow retconning the original Trilogy as a Leftwing Rebel propaganda film would actually work at this point. Though these recent two movies have at least had better acting than the Prequels. Lucas ruined so many careers with those films.

Blogger tublecane December 19, 2017 1:06 PM  

Point #3 is asinine. Nevermind that the internet has been around in a big way for over 20 years, and that it serves every bit as much to spread word of genuine distaste to save people money as to subject movies to unfair, inaccurate, or nitpicky criticism.

If no movie could stand up to the internet's standards, people wouldn't listen to the internet. Because they'd know without checking that it doesn't know what it's talking about.

What actually happens is that the internet can serve as a sort of high school gossip mill, and in the process the modern god Fashion can turn against this or that product. Which is all well and good when Fashion favors centralized disseminators of opinion in the MSM. But when the Dark Corners of the Internet--run by underwear-clad man-children in their mother's basements who lack all academic credentials and don't even believe in Diversity Dogma or feminist claptrap--have a say in what's fashionable, eegads!

Is that a world in which you want to live. Critics have passed judgement. Critics, I say! To whom else can you listen regarding unseen movies and maintain your dignity at cocktail parties? We can't have you listening to unaccredited sources of critical opinion. Next, you'll be getting back alley advice on whom to vote for.

Anonymous Mike December 19, 2017 1:06 PM  

This film seems determined to transmit the message of “anyone can be great”, regardless of noble birth or training. This is seen in Rey’s backstory in which it is revealed that her parents were essentially meth-junkies. The film closes with a young untrained boy (why wasn’t he a POC?!) using the force to handle his broom. The message is clear, in fact its shoved in your face – Anyone can be great. There is no such thing as lineage, that is all gone now. Listen, some Haitian kid with 75-IQ parents who lives on dirt cakes is very likely the hero that we need. Anything is possible. Deal with it, bigot.

And in this new message, the character of Luke must be destroyed. The new paradigm has arrived, and this entire idea of family lineage, noble birth, princesses, hierarchy, etc. is gone. Dead. Luke is a loser who drinks walrus milk and considers killing his nephew. In this way they reflect the ongoing cultural narrative in our society in the last few decades. The family is gone, heroes aren’t really heroes, the force is feminine, and if you don’t accept this you will be destroyed. The new Star Wars films are quite subversive when you think about it. In conclusion… Jews.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Deplorable Cents December 19, 2017 1:08 PM  

There's an old joke in sales about a pet food company that launches a new product, the best dog food in the world. It's nutritious and enhanced with vitamins. It's carefully blended to have the right texture and scent. The label on the can is carefully designed to attract the eye of the average pet owner. Yet sales are crappy.

The CEO calls a meeting of all employees to figure this out. Lots of charts and explanations are offered. Focus group reports are given. Dog nutritionists are baffled. Nobody can explain the problem. Finally the oldest salesman in the company gets up and says in a tired voice:

"Look, the problem is simple. Dogs won't eat it. That's why sales suck. The dogs just won't eat it".

Anonymous SAK December 19, 2017 1:09 PM  

In the new series, the only competent people are a bunch of white, British-sounding Space Nazis.

All hail the First Order of the British Space Empire. May she rule the cosmic hyper-waves, confound her villainous foes, and bring order, civilisation, and human flourishing to a galaxy long ruined by the failed Jedi order and their political cronies.

Anonymous trev006 December 19, 2017 1:12 PM  

Mike,

I can understand the idea that the Force is not inherited: that it is an a mystical art that depends on hard work and discipline to use. Putting aside the fact that it flies in the face of what Star Wars was- and after someone called it fantasy with a sci-fi shell I can't stop seeing it- Rey hasn't developed mastery at all. It was given to her, and not by inheritance. The Force is pure luck, and some lady junk diver can use it brilliantly because we need to explain how forgettable and interchangeable parts can fit in our annual Star Wars machine.

Anonymous patrick kelly December 19, 2017 1:13 PM  

"And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented."

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky December 19, 2017 1:13 PM  

Asking people on the way out of the theater is no good. Give them time to process it. Opinion of this film does not fare well over time.

Just ask people if they liked what they did to Luke here. Let them stew on that. It ain't pretty.

Blogger cmbaileytstc December 19, 2017 1:16 PM  

This is over 15000 signatures now.
https://www.change.org/p/the-walt-disney-company-have-disney-strike-star-wars-episode-viii-from-the-official-canon/fbog/16239155?recruiter=16239155&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish

Anonymous patrick kelly December 19, 2017 1:17 PM  

"...wants to like this, because it's labeled "Star Wars" and has shiny space-battles"

That's why I'll eventually watch it somewhere, sometime. Just not now. Usually someone asks if I want to go, they're buying, and there is a stop at a bar along the way, or at a local Alamo Drafthouse Theater which has a full bar. I've watched some crappy disappointing movies under those circumstances, and occasionally a good one.

I'm kinda' easy like that.

Anonymous SAK December 19, 2017 1:20 PM  

Opinion of this film does not fare well over time.

Especially as the film is simply not much, I'd say any, fun when taken straight. The only real enjoyment, that lasts beyond the cinematic spectacle's assault on the senses, which does affect some people, is hammering it with savage reviews and playing it for laughs through subverting Disney's intended messaging.

Anonymous Roger Ebert December 19, 2017 1:20 PM  

Sat through it with my 12 year old yesterday at the matinee, in 3D.

"Dad, it wasn't TOO bad."

He is a generous child. I took a nap.

The glasses didn't help the suck.

Too much suck to specify- only the flying shylock merchant and the rasta from the prequels were worse.

(Ok, I can't resist- The Menopausal Maidens of Matriarchal Militancy (AKA the Rebel Leaders. Laura ("fuck me") Dern in an evening gown, WAY past her prime- Rat faced English chick- Lea "absolute zero zombie" Skywalker- "Cry" Lo (aka Ben Solo)- Mystery Light Speed tracking device- Benicio Del "TTToro" in a WTF role- revising the "casino sell-out" part the BDW did so much better in Empire. What else- Luke doing the "Incredulous at GRRL power!!" face first done in the Matrix with Will Smith's wife- Cheesy emperor with scarface look- no plastic surgeons in space! who's too stupid to see the lightsaber on his throne coming at him-Space ships that run out of gas- is there a Chevron they go to? More plot holes than a surveyor's map-
I could go on, but nightfall will come if I do.

Truly, the force is wrong with this one.

Star Bores, truly.

Blogger Amy December 19, 2017 1:21 PM  

@1 always double down!

Anonymous patrick kelly December 19, 2017 1:23 PM  

My favorite synopsis:

"Over 50 percent of the movie is about an elite squadron of Star Destroyers failing to catch a single Rebel transport ship that is taking 20 hours to run out of gas."

Sounds better than I expected. A must see while drinking myself into a stupor.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab December 19, 2017 1:26 PM  

Who are you more likely to interview, somebody who's pissed and wants nothing to do with anyone or somebody who's happy and saying, "That was great!"?

Blogger Silly but True December 19, 2017 1:27 PM  

In other news, Marvel quietly cancels its two most converged titles on the dl: its mainposter girl for girl power Gwenpool, and its black lesbian superhero:
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/12/19/america-gwenpool-cancel-2018-solicits/

Blogger kurt9 December 19, 2017 1:30 PM  

Vox has said several truisms about SJW's, about how they double down and project. I will add another one about them and many liberals in general. They lack insight. They completely lack the insight to realize that maybe they themselves are to blame for people not trusting their institutions (e.g. mainstream media) any longer. This lack of insight is a trait that is common to the mentally ill as well. Thus, one can conclude on this basis alone that many liberals, and SJW's in particularly, are mentally ill.

Blogger Amy December 19, 2017 1:31 PM  

But the mystical nature of the force was shunted aside with the whole idea of “midichlorians” right? Scienze, not mysticism, inheritance or something in the unique biology of an individual (insinuating inheritance via DNA) was what made one strong with the force, according to Phantom Menace.

I’m so confused. If I just meditate hard enough I can be one with the force too, right? No midichlorians needed?

I’ll probably see this at some point too, because my kids will want to see it. Perhaps the spectacle will be so bad it’s good, by that time.

Blogger YIH December 19, 2017 1:32 PM  

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=last+jedi+sucks
About 26,000 results

Blogger Mr.MantraMan December 19, 2017 1:34 PM  

Space princess 6s saving the galaxy. Finn is space Rochester, "Mr. Chan Mr. Chan the spaceship be outa gas."

Blogger Silly but True December 19, 2017 1:38 PM  

Corey Feldman just named Rian Johnson as the one responsible for raping Corey Haim's childhood to death.

Anonymous Lars Porsena December 19, 2017 1:39 PM  

All these phoney reasons being bandied about all over the internet. Few people will mention the same issue that was one of the issues at the core of gamergate.

This is a multi-bazillion dollar flagship movie, created by the same people who own must of the whole industry and fund the people (with advertising) who pay the people who review films professionally (as in, for money). In a dying industry where most media can't get enough money to stay alive, and no one can get away with trying to charge customers so they depend on advertising.

What was the actual chance that, no matter how the movie turned out, it was ever going to be panned by professional critics? Blah blah blah all these explanations with reasons, political, cultural, etc, for the difference between review scores. None of them mention the moolah.

When was the last time a multi-bajillion dollar mass-audience flagship movie made by the people who own everything to do with entertainment and indirectly fund everyone's salaries has ever been bombed by the professional critics on release? If they piss them off, who is going to pay them to review movies? Sure as hell not the movie goers.

The critics like the film and the guy's defense lawyers insist he is innocent too, go figure. Professionals are in it to make a living, they know what they get paid for.

Anonymous Looking Glass December 19, 2017 1:40 PM  

@7 Mike

Thing is, it's been canon since 1977 that "anyone" can be a Jedi. So part of the thematic element they're trying to push has been true for 40 years. Now, from Empire through Revenge of the Sith, it became the Anakin Skywalker story. Anakin who got turned into Evil Space Jesus, at that.

It's not a bad idea to move in a different direction and transition away from the Skywalker Family Drama, but, well, your signature character from this series is... a Skywalker. They actually can't get anything right, but they sure can make it look pretty.

Also, "killing" Luke off could have worked just fine, but you have to give the character a logical conclusion. He needed to go out Sampson-style and very much like Obiwan, which is copying, in style, one of the good things about A New Hope.

Though there's one funny part that'll come out of this movie that might be the only redeeming aspect: it's been clear for a while that the Light/Dark dichotomy doesn't work in Star Wars. The Prequels and much of the original Trilogy revolves around the reality that a knock-off Buddhism doesn't work when using Christian epistemology. Neither hard self-denial (Light side) and overt over-indulgence (Dark side) of emotions allows the Force user to prosper.

The "Force" is fire or a weapon. That's what "Balance" ends up being, an actual rejection of the false dichtomoy presented by all of the previous works. The answer is thus Self-Control of great power, but that runs you into clearly Christian themes & responses. Since you'd need a Christian on staff to approach that problem, that's not happening in Hollyweird.

Snoke dying would have worked if he didn't go out like a bitch. That's why everyone is complaining. It's not most of the things that happened, it's how the "things" happened.

Blogger Max December 19, 2017 1:40 PM  

I see a lot of articles mentioning cinemascore giving TLJ an A. Cinemascore is a joke. It gave phantom menace, attack of the clones and revenge of the sith A- rankings. So I guess TLJ is just a tiny bit better than the prequels? If you want to see how heavily Cinemascore skews towards A's and B's just visit the site and type in the names of movies you know were bad or even just mediocre.

https://www.cinemascore.com/

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( the Original Militant Apathist ) December 19, 2017 1:41 PM  

RLM says, "sporadically interesting".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9hwGZFPSmw

Blogger Mr.MantraMan December 19, 2017 1:41 PM  

Here is the plot line to save this PoS series, desolate shit hole farm planet, weary but stoic farmer dad played by Russel Crowe, farmer mother played by younger hotter tighter brunette with dazzling blue eyes are parents to a child who is unsuspecting of the Force till one day he instinctually does something that amazes him and frightens his parents.

Parents turn out to be well endowed with the Force but hid it so as to not disturb Force heavies well that is now blown to hell and all hell breaks loose.

Oh and Rey gets tingles somewhere out there in the galaxy.

Blogger YIH December 19, 2017 1:48 PM  

Antony wrote:OT - but as Sarah Silverman was recently blogged about - she is now claiming patriotism is perverted ; http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2017/12/19/sarah-silverman-patriotism-perverted/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social
Which country? Hers or the one she's currently in?

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Grass December 19, 2017 1:48 PM  

May it burn!

Anonymous Ryan A. December 19, 2017 1:49 PM  

The truth is that post-GamerGate, only idiots and SJWs pay any attention to what the critics

Well, I've always taken what critics say with a grain of salt, but post gamergate, this idiot doesn't pay any attention to online reviews for anything the alt-right might love or hate.

The Last Jedi was no Empire or Rogue One, but it was pretty good. A decent follow up to The Force Awakens, which was also pretty good. Scenario 1 seems most likely to me, especially given CinemaScore's findings.

Blogger Lovekraft December 19, 2017 1:56 PM  

Continuing the sentiment of 25, we are post-Obama affirmative action disaster so people have a keen awareness of how horrible someone who doesn't belong is speaking down to them.

I was thinking of the phrase 'stolen valor' and do not think it necessarily has to be limited to the military. SJWs have been stealing valor for decades and making us nod in agreement, with serious and ever-increasing consequences (think Bruce Jenner as a key event here).

So Disney and other companies should either reject the Obama-era "blacks and women are perfect, can do no wrong" message pumped out on a daily basis, or be seen as part of this vast network of greed and deception.

Blogger Thomas Pacicco December 19, 2017 2:08 PM  

All fiction is propaganda, on some level. Superjediwoman is the new propaganda. I have no sympathy for those who pay for that travesty which is why I've grown to despise non-comedic fiction as I have gotten older. Remind me again, of the original three heroes, without speaking ill of the dead, may she rest in peace, who died in real life of a heart attack after struggling with drug abuse and mental illness while the other two had successful careers, one in live action, the other in voice animation?

Blogger VD December 19, 2017 2:12 PM  

Well, I've always taken what critics say with a grain of salt, but post gamergate, this idiot doesn't pay any attention to online reviews for anything the alt-right might love or hate.

Then you're stupid. Also, you have to go back.

The Last Jedi was no Empire or Rogue One, but it was pretty good. A decent follow up to The Force Awakens, which was also pretty good.

Stupidity confirmed.

Scenario 1 seems most likely to me, especially given CinemaScore's findings.

And underlined.

Blogger Cloom Glue December 19, 2017 2:12 PM  

YIH wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=last+jedi+sucks>
About 26,000 results


"common good sucks" gets 364,000 replies on youtube. I think that research method is not working.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( the Original Militant Apathist ) December 19, 2017 2:13 PM  

32. Ryan A. December 19, 2017 1:49 PM
Scenario 1 seems most likely to me, especially given CinemaScore's findings.



because RedLetterMedia are AltRight 4channers trolling the world.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( the Original Militant Apathist ) December 19, 2017 2:14 PM  

32. Ryan A. December 19, 2017 1:49 PM
Scenario 1 seems most likely to me, especially given CinemaScore's findings.



because RedLetterMedia are AltRight 4channers trolling the world.

Anonymous fop December 19, 2017 2:21 PM  

Stranger Things getting lots of critical acclaim.

Fans, however, feel betrayed because they killed off Bob and made us watch him being eaten alive.

Sons of bitches.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents December 19, 2017 2:22 PM  

With so many works of science fiction written since the 1930's why save the mudball that Di$ney War$ has become? Video is cheaper than ever. CGI costs keep dropping.

Non-Swamp producers, non-Pedowood actors and screenwriters. Pick stories by dead writers whose estates will negotiate, or still living writers who would like to see a story on the screen. Go back to Gernsback's time if copywrite is an issue.

Got a big budget with a ton of CGI? Make Niven / Pournelle's Footfall in 4K or build up a Man-Kzin Wars series to compete with George RRRape Martin. Pick an old Andre Norton story; coming-of-age but with no homopedo. Update Saberhagen's Berzerkers as a series that could run for a while where real men and real women face Death in the metal and worse-than-death, Goodlife in the face.

There's a whole universe of stories out there worth rescuing from the dusty shelves. Lucas sold his, it can't be saved and doesn't need to be.

Blogger James Dixon December 19, 2017 2:26 PM  

> ... one of the good things about A New Hope.

A title which was added later. At first it was just "Star Wars".

> The Last Jedi was no Empire or Rogue One, but it was pretty good.

So, how much does Disney pay to troll random websites and praise their films?

Blogger tublecane December 19, 2017 2:27 PM  

@21-Phantom Menace may have stolen away some of the mystery of the force, but they didn't boil it down to Science. Midichlorians as I under it are the conduit through which the force manifests itself physically, but it's not purely material cause-and-effect. That's just how the force carries out its will. The force itself remains beyond the physical.

The problem with midichlorians, aside from the fact that you'd think they could have been mentioned in the previous films, is that they offer an unnecessary explanation. No one was interested in hearing those details, just as you may not be interested in a lecture on the mating habits of the tsese fly in church, even if you believe they're God's creatures. That part of Creation isn't very interesting,and it's not the best way to see Him through a glass darkly.

The midichlorian scene explained something we already understood well one way in a different, immeasurably more boring way. It was also an example of too much sci-fi for a movie series that leans more towards fantasy, as explained in another thread. But it didn't ruin the force. It didn't to my knowledge contradict what we already knew, or at least not so as to render it unsalvageable.

Blogger James Dixon December 19, 2017 2:27 PM  

> There's a whole universe of stories out there worth rescuing from the dusty shelves.

Chronicles of Amber.

Anonymous Iacobus December 19, 2017 2:28 PM  

Ryan A. wrote:The truth is that post-GamerGate, only idiots and SJWs pay any attention to what the critics

Well, I've always taken what critics say with a grain of salt, but post gamergate, this idiot doesn't pay any attention to online reviews for anything the alt-right might love or hate.

The Last Jedi was no Empire or Rogue One, but it was pretty good. A decent follow up to The Force Awakens, which was also pretty good. Scenario 1 seems most likely to me, especially given CinemaScore's findings.


The gaming media and the developers have shown how much contempt they have for the true gamers out there. Take note: "Games" like Gone Home are not games by any stretch. When gamers point this out and are demonized for it, don't blame them for how they react.

Rogue One? On the same level as The Empire Strikes Back? lol

Everyone knows at this point that The Force Awakens was just A New Hope Version 2.0. Even Abrams admits as much that he "borrowed" (i.e., "ripped off") from it.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener December 19, 2017 2:30 PM  

At least it's been entertaining to watch The Last Jedi eviscerated by people who actually saw and enjoyed The Force Awakens and Rogue One. And I appreciate Cataline seeing this one so that we don't have to.

Blogger Johnny December 19, 2017 2:31 PM  

No need to overthink this stuff. Movies are a form of entertainment. If they don't entertain they are not good. To succeed the big budget moves have to appeal to most people, and this sucker plainly doesn't. And also plainly, CinemaScore is either incompentent or corrupt.

For the record it has not always been thus. Critics will overrate a PC correct movie, but they are usually closer to the audience than this. And in the past big budget movies have gotten panned. Apparenly Disney now owns the process.

Anonymous Laz December 19, 2017 2:32 PM  

Unfortunately they already did Footfall, albeit with a lot of creative license. It starred Will Smith. I would really like to see a city sized spacecraft propelled by nuclear bombs though.

Blogger tublecane December 19, 2017 2:34 PM  

@25-Critics do trash tentpole movies occasionally, including ones that buttress actual or would-be "extended universe's," like for instance Batman v. Superman or the Justice League movie. So it's not as simple as "of course critics will fall in line; Big Hollywood money is at stake!"

Of course, Disney could simply be better at paying off/intimidating critics. But you'd think Warner Bros. could buy better publicity. Maybe they don't play the SJW game as well.

Blogger Wolfman at Large December 19, 2017 2:37 PM  

I got a theory of my own as to why critics (and people with the same mindset as critics liked The Last Jedi. In order to fully ruin Star Wars Disney had to first completely reject and subvert the Joseph Campbell Monomyth that modern screenwriters use as their crutch.

When you're a Mid-Gamma who watches fifty movies a year and forty nine of them contain elements of A Hero With A Thousand Faces a major Hollywood blockbuster that rejects the Monomyth is going to seem like a breath of fresh air.

https://wolvesandmen.wordpress.com/2017/12/19/star-wars-the-last-jedi-and-why-the-pod-people-loved-it/

Anonymous Ryan A. December 19, 2017 2:38 PM  

Come on Vox, you're just phoning it in now.

Anonymous Looking Glass December 19, 2017 2:38 PM  

@39 A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents

This is going to sound nitpicky, but the problem is the entire way movies are financed. As it currently stands, where things normally end up is the result of the very evil way all of the accounting is done. The end result is a "creative process" that's all process and little in the way of creative.

The actual approach to take is a deep study of structuring the movie financing & profits in a very different way (independent company with people getting stock? IP rights on new IP is a problem to work out), making sure most everyone involved is invested in the outcome of the project and then having a staff of writers.

The places with the most value and cheapest cost are the Writing and the Editing, so those are the things to have an in-house staff to handle. You'll get more return for 1mil per year spent on the Writing & Editing than you will in 5 minutes of CGI work, but it's noticeable Hollywood has itself stuck in this current model. (TV/Streaming TV series noticeably don't have this issue.)

Blogger tublecane December 19, 2017 2:38 PM  

@26-In the original Star Wars Luke may not have been Vader's son (even if he had, Darth Vader was just an S.S. officer with mysterious powers, not Space Jesus), but he wasn't some nobody farm boy. His father was a famous star pilot, veteran of the Clone Wars, and hero of the Old Republic.

Anonymous Lars Porsena December 19, 2017 2:38 PM  

#42,

Roger Zelazny dying before he could write another 1600 pages was a crime against humanity. It has some resolution where he left it but not enough, with so much more potential.

Blogger Ben Cohen December 19, 2017 2:40 PM  

They could've done a better job just doing a movie adaptation of the old Kyle katarn video games like Dark Forces, Jedi Knight, Mysteries of the sith

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents December 19, 2017 2:42 PM  

@46 Laz
Unfortunately they already did Footfall, albeit with a lot of creative license. It starred Will Smith.

Not. Really.

It's like when I saw "Puppet Masters" on cable with Donald Sutherland. Then I found a copy of the Heinlein book in pile of paperbacks - not hardly even the same story.

Whatever. Tons of good stories. Why keep remaking the same stuff? Merchandising, to make more money off of the core story. We can have cool stories or we can have Happy Ferengi Merchants. I'm for cool stories.

Blogger Nathan December 19, 2017 2:42 PM  

So, not going to see the movie, but it sounds like the Force is going to work like magic does in the Harry Potter universe, some get it heriditarily and some just get it at random, and that semi-randomness is really what makes it special. Are they going to harry potterfy Star Wars?

Blogger Shimshon December 19, 2017 2:50 PM  

I don't get how Rian Johnson can be so inept. Yeah, I know, because SJW.

I watched Brick and The Brothers Bloom. I thought they were entertaining and even engaging stories. It has been a long time since I watched either.

Blogger tuberman December 19, 2017 2:51 PM  

Wolfman at Large wrote:I got a theory of my own as to why critics (and people with the same mindset as critics liked The Last Jedi. In order to fully ruin Star Wars Disney had to first completely reject and subvert the Joseph Campbell Monomyth that modern screenwriters use as their crutch.

When you're a Mid-Gamma who watches fifty movies a year and forty nine of them contain elements of A Hero With A Thousand Faces a major Hollywood blockbuster that rejects the Monomyth is going to seem like a breath of fresh air.

https://wolvesandmen.wordpress.com/2017/12/19/star-wars-the-last-jedi-and-why-the-pod-people-loved-it/


Okay, where can you find 49 movies a year with the hero with a thousand faces theme? Only if you go back in a time machine, and if you have one, I want it.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab December 19, 2017 2:53 PM  

If you look at the third set of movies without reference to anything else, they are ok movies. Not good by any means but I was kind of entertained by Rogue One. I haven't seen the last jedi probably won't until it's free on some movie channel.

But the idea that these movies are on the same plane as each other or even in the same universe seems odd. Sure they have some of the same characters and terms but so does the Deryni novels and the Catholic church.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents December 19, 2017 2:54 PM  

@50 Looking Glass
This is going to sound nitpicky, but the problem is the entire way movies are financed.

Yeah, I got that. Pedowood is all about keeping the Ferengi all Happy. But so what? Look at some of the 70's movies, all grainy 16mm film shot right out in the street with not much studio but pretty good stories.

There's no shortage of science fiction stories. Decades, generations of them are on the shelves. Pedowood is one bottleneck. Ok, are there screenwriters who could turn them into movies without going to Pedowood? Are there actors who would like to get face time without going to Pedowood? The AV hardware has never been less expensive or easier to work with.

Crowdfunding a 30 minute video is certainly possible. It won't get into CinePlex666 but it can be pushed over the net to GenZ. Do that a few times and get just a couple of younger, hungrier backers who don't want to fund Pedowood.

It would help if fans would think about something other than one more revival of the Walking Dead $tar.

Anonymous NZT December 19, 2017 2:55 PM  

Notwithstanding Deadline's desperate spin that the low audience scores are due to trolls, it's painfully clear anywhere you look (including talking to people IRL) that fan reactions range from underwhelmed to royal pissed off. The critics (who are mostly an inbred little cabal of j-school bloggers) are just plain out of touch.

As for the CinemaScore, they interview a couple hundred people in a tiny handful of mega-urban markets immediately after watching the movie. They are in no way representative of overall audience reaction. Both Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones had A- scores, but now everyone thinks they're shit.

The pushback is real on this one. Apparently TLJ only did $20 million on Monday, less than half what TFA did on the comparable day. If it wants to come anywhere close to TFA's gargantuan haul it needs fans going back to watch it 3-5 times. I have serious doubts about whether it will pull that trick off this time.

Anonymous HH December 19, 2017 2:56 PM  

Original Trilogy: Arthurian legend retold with lazers and robots
New trilogy: Corporate diversity seminar retold with lazers and robots

Anonymous Sam the Man December 19, 2017 2:56 PM  

My brother and I always try to get together and watch a science fiction "biggie" over the X-mas holiday. Last year we saw "Rouge One" and it is likely the reason we will skip Star wars whatever edition this is. Reason:

They did a reversals on sexual roles with the chick at the end of the movie and it just did not work. The last scene of the movie the girl is watching the wave come in which will kill them, while the guy rests his head on her shoulder. Barf. The reversal of roles ruined the scene and what would have been a poignant ending. I was just gay. All the rest of the special effects and good plot lines that kind of pre sequels of the first three star wars movies was killed by this ridiculous inversion of basic human roles.

Never saw the one from the year before that with the chick, but went back and read about it. Chick on desert planet, good with sword (yet no practice), can fix space craft, Hot yet a regular hardy boy skill set. Such stupid leftist plots ruin any story, as it is not about any sort of reality we know. Chicks are not good soldiers, engineers, brave in battle or willing to sacrifice themselves for an abstract cause. They are excellent as mothers, helpmates to good men and willing to sacrifice themselves totally for their children. Fiction that does not reflect that reality is trash.

Yet that is the message of the last three Disney versions, chick power rules. This is what Disney is doing. It is a giant propaganda machine, trying to make women men and men into women. It is destructive. Why would any right minded person support such is beyond me.

I need to listen to the following videos to clear that Disney crap out of my head:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivP1qYG_tLw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc8ZTY7Nbp8

Blogger YIH December 19, 2017 2:59 PM  

Cloom Glue wrote:YIH wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=last+jedi+sucks>

About 26,000 results


"common good sucks" gets 364,000 replies on youtube. I think that research method is not working.


Let me guess, you didn't actually click that link did you?
First page, 14 matches on 'last' & 'jedi' & 'suck'. The rest?
1 paid ad, 1 ''made me angry'' 1 ''garbage'' and 1 ''you can't defend''. Oh and from the first time I did that search (about 24 hours ago) the results count has risen from 19k to 26k and is right now at About 26,200 results - which means it's risen 200 from that post you quoted.

Blogger DonReynolds December 19, 2017 3:02 PM  

This article falls into the same category as "my dog ate my homework"....a lie on top of another lie to attempt to prove the first lie.

The critics liked the movie or were paid to say they did or the media told them to....whatever. My Rule of Thumb #1 as a movie maven is.....if the critics hate the movie, it is probably pretty good, because they have a RELIABLE tendency to miss the bad ones when they are really bad AND miss the good ones that are really good.

The release of the movie made $450 million dollars, so it MUST be good. I have heard this one lots of times. Opening revenues are more a function of pre-release publicity than anything else. Rule of thumb #2....if it is heavily advertised and pushed, it probably stinks to high heaven. My favorite movies of all time were box office flops. The best movies were seldom promoted or advertised, but they were still great. Other movies, in recent years, were pushed and puffed in the media and the theater had a guy at the exit door paying out instant refunds to angry patrons and apologizing.... yeah, Marie Antoinette (Kirsten Dunst) was such a move, so was 1492: Conquest of Paradise. If the critics loved it, it is probably a stinker.

If the fans were disappointed and you are a Star Wars fan....then guess what?

Anonymous Tipsy December 19, 2017 3:03 PM  

My wife and I watched an adaptation of John LeCarre's book "The Night Manager". It was actually quite good, and yet, they couldn't help but write out a Englishman as one of the spy-heros for a white woman who was dissatisfied with her dim-witted white husband, who had a history of an affair with a black CIA agent, and had a crack team made up of only diverse intelligence agents.

Now, there's nothing wrong with this, per se, but this subtextual, anti-male misoleukism is a constant drumbeat by the creative class, and echos the PC message I have been getting for 40 years: the only proper attitude for white males is that of self loathing.

It seems to me that such a message is wrong for everyone, whites included.

Blogger Bobiojimbo December 19, 2017 3:14 PM  

As I said on my reply to an earlier post, I was going to see this film just to experience how bad it is. It's bad. They should have named this: Star Wars: Episode VIII: Now with More Lens Flare, or Why Women Shouldn't be in Charge.

Anonymous patrick kelly December 19, 2017 3:15 PM  

"If you look at the third set of movies without reference to anything else, they are ok" DISNEY KIDS "movies."

Anonymous patrick kelly December 19, 2017 3:17 PM  

"Okay, where can you find 49 movies a year with the hero with a thousand faces theme? "

In blogging rhetoric.

Blogger James December 19, 2017 3:20 PM  

To be honest, has Star Wars been worth watching since The Empire Strikes Back? Starting with Return of the Jedi, Lucas's franchise became a marketing franchise. Since then, its been all CGI with no decent plot or script. In fact, Star Wars scripts were never top shelf.

Blogger DonReynolds December 19, 2017 3:22 PM  

James Dixon wrote:> ... one of the good things about A New Hope.

A title which was added later. At first it was just "Star Wars".

> The Last Jedi was no Empire or Rogue One, but it was pretty good.

So, how much does Disney pay to troll random websites and praise their films?


Forget it, James.
Why do you suppose Disney replaced so many of their American workers with H1-Bs??

Blogger James December 19, 2017 3:23 PM  

Tipsy wrote:My wife and I watched an adaptation of John LeCarre's book "The Night Manager". It was actually quite good, and yet, they couldn't help but write out a Englishman as one of the spy-heros for a white woman who was dissatisfied with her dim-witted white husband, who had a history of an affair with a black CIA agent, and had a crack team made up of only diverse intelligence agents.

Now, there's nothing wrong with this....


Really? Maybe you could explain what's right about it?

Blogger Gunnar von Cowtown December 19, 2017 3:23 PM  

"But wait! CinemaScore, which conducts exit polls at theaters, says moviegoers gave “The Last Jedi” a solid A."

This shouldn't be surprising. The movie has enough of the original aesthetic that it still kinda feels like Star Wars. You probably won't hate it upon leaving the theater. However, after you take some time to process what you've just seen, you begin to hate it. The more you think about it, the more you will grow to hate it.

Anonymous patrick kelly December 19, 2017 3:24 PM  

"fop wrote:Stranger Things getting lots of critical acclaim.

Fans, however, feel betrayed because they killed off Bob and made us watch him being eaten alive.

Sons of bitches.

"

I liked Bob and did not enjoy watching that.

However, what pissed me off more is that they didn't kill off two other completely useless new characters that added nothing substantial to my enjoyment of the series other than possibly an ABC afternoon school special level moral lesson or two.

Anonymous Looking Glass December 19, 2017 3:27 PM  

@59 A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents

It's a nitpicky answer because the only way to approach the problem is with a high-level Strategy. Pretty much 0 people that go into mass entertainment go in with Grand Strategy in mind. Okay, one. He's currently President of the United States of America.

But that's the problem. The entire "Creative Class" has sucked out all of the money, joy and general ability to make decent Art from anyone that won't toe their line. There's no way to do it "the Hollywood way" for any outside group, which is what the Chinese have figured out. (Which is also why they've given up putting any money in.) You would need to start from scratch with a very different business model, build your own in-house production process and then sort out the new distribution models.

It's more than doable, it's just a matter of who wants to drop $15 million and 5 years to get it off the ground?

Blogger YIH December 19, 2017 3:32 PM  

One of the reasons I've been using YouTube to gauge reactions to Last Jedi is this: This is quite likely the first mention of anything Star Wars on this guy's channel: Shadiversity - all Medieval England all the time. He broke format to tell everybody how much he hated it.
Little Benny Granted, I hit my Little Benny limit at 3:20, but it long enough to figure out he didn't like it either (blind squirrel, nut, you get it).
I've yet to see anything on YouTube that wasn't an obvious ad praising the flick, and there were even videos praising last year's Ghostbusters!

Blogger Robert Divinity December 19, 2017 3:33 PM  

the web fosters the kind of scrutiny that few films can withstand

That's a keeper.

Anonymous Huckleberry -- est. 1977 December 19, 2017 3:38 PM  

Of course critics loved it.
The Last Jedi basically told a story of current_year where the media (standing in as HASHTAGTHERESISTANCE) were romantic heroes and martyrs, methodically hunted down by The First Order (of Kek) and blasted out of space as they desperately seek safespaceland. The paperthin plot of this awkwardly pointless movie is nothing but an existential exercise in trying to find catharsis through persecution.
If Hillary Clinton had won the election, The Last Jedi would have been a completely different movie.

Blogger Ingemar December 19, 2017 3:45 PM  

All it would take to disprove--

3) It’s a function of how the internet has affected fandom. Vanity Fair argues that the web fosters the kind of scrutiny that few films can withstand.

--is to find a movie that has a high critic score and a high user score.

Blogger Johnny December 19, 2017 4:01 PM  

It has never been clear to me what "the hero with a thousand faces" actually means. I took it to mean that it is a story line that repeats, thus there is a thousand versions of the hero's journey story. If I am to suppose there is a different understanding, what is it?

Anonymous fop December 19, 2017 4:02 PM  

However, what pissed me off more is that they didn't kill off two other completely useless new characters

Yes, it would have been way more satisfying if Billy had shown up at the lab, started talking shit, and gotten himself eaten instead of Bob.

Blogger Tatooine Sharpshooters' Club December 19, 2017 4:02 PM  

They do love the old Appeal to Authority (even a non-existent authority):" The Times’s Manohla Dargis raved about it, and that's like it was blessed by God herself! What is wrong with these disrespectful proles?!"

Blogger Cloom Glue December 19, 2017 4:04 PM  

@63 per this: Let me guess, you didn't actually click that link did you?
---

I don't get your point for certain. Are you talking about my display of your link? Mine was not meant to be a link. I could not get my reply to post without mangling your stuff. I was not being crafty by editing the copy/paste html to get it to display inside the italics.

My assertion stands, that those searches are not what we think they mean. I am being helpful, not critical.

If you do my search you will see it is 364,000 but not of what I searched, but lesser searches of individual words, apparently.

Blogger Lovekraft December 19, 2017 4:05 PM  

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/7kvh20/star_wars_the_last_white_men/

Anonymous Stickwick December 19, 2017 4:08 PM  

The only critic I ever paid attention to was Roger Ebert. Whether he liked a movie or not, he was always honest about its qualities. He famously gave Aliens 3.5/4 stars, a very good rating, even though he personally didn't like the movie, because he said it was well crafted and lived up to its promise as a scary-as-hell movie. That's integrity.

I haven't paid attention to a single thing any professional movie critic has said since Ebert went to that Great Cinema in the Sky. The audience reaction is the bottom line for whether I will see a movie or not. My husband and I sometimes amuse ourselves by scrolling through Rotten Tomatoes and noting the disparities between the critics % and the audience %. These days, "critically acclaimed" might as well mean "it flattered our progressive sensibilities" or "we live to see another day as movie critics."

Anonymous The Original Arrogant Steelers Fan December 19, 2017 4:10 PM  

"All hail the First Order of the British Space Empire. May she rule the cosmic hyper-waves, confound her villainous foes, and bring order, civilization, and human flourishing to a galaxy long ruined by the failed Jedi order and their political cronies."

Thread win. For the lolz...

Now, could it be that "First Order" is a euphemism for "Old Republic" in SJW/JewJew Abrams-speak?

Nahhhhhh... certainly not!

Blogger tublecane December 19, 2017 4:11 PM  

@79-It's a Comparative Religion sort of idea, whereby myths from all corners of the globe and thousands of years into the past follow the same basic pattern. Campbell calls it the monomyth. We call it the Hero's Journey, or whatever.

Very reductive, in my opinion. To believe it, you either have to make pattern ridiculously simple, or you have to stretch the elements to make them fit. But it's true that different hero stories from different cultures are similar.

I don't believe Lucas followed Campbell like a blueprint, as others have stated. He was interested in the subject matter, and I think for a time was interested in studying anthropology, sociology, or whatever. But Star Wars comes from movies, fiction, and comic books, not stuffy comparative mythology.

The series owes a lot more to Buck Rogers, Dune, Lensmen, Kurosawa, westerns, WWII movies, pirate movies, and the like than Campbell.

Blogger Johnny December 19, 2017 4:16 PM  

When it comes to movie scripts there are an endless number of them out there. I am told that most all the people in and around Hollywood have one they would like to see produced. The problem with the studios looking at these scripts is that people think a lot alike. Thus if they allowed the thousands of submissions in, when they do a movie, there will often be a couple of scripts that will strongly resimble the script for the movie they do. This invites lawsuits for palagarism, and the solution is a reluctance to look at scripts from non professionals.

Meanwhile the pros, like the rest of us, have only a few new ideas (if any), and these get burned through in a hurry in their careers. Thus you end up with the recycling of stuff that has worked in the past.

Anonymous kHz December 19, 2017 4:17 PM  

Bad movies were fun back in the day, but judging by the trends of Hollywood and what’s been reported so far, this is akin to allowing Gollum to read The Hobbit to your kids, with him twisting the telling of the story as he likes.

Thus, this is a Disney movie I shall never see and never pay to watch. And I'm feeling good about that. When even the morbid curiosity has gone, you know why they have Nothing Left.

Blogger Cataline Sergius December 19, 2017 4:20 PM  

After 4 days, TLJ is already underperforming TFA by $46.5 million

What none of the newsies are mentioning is that Disney built these mega-boxoffice numbers into the distribution deal.

The second weekend take will be the real tell here. Disney brutally locked in their profits on this one. Theater owners were left making enough of a profit themselves provided that TLJ was burning up the boxoffice.

But if it crashes next weekend that is the Titanic facing the iceberg. Disney is not going to able to strongarm the theaters like this again for the next one.

Blogger BassmanCO December 19, 2017 4:32 PM  

Ryan A. wrote:Come on Vox, you're just phoning it in now.

No, you're just a mentally incontinent troll. Sorry to burst that bubble. For proof, look at what you wrote about The Farce Awakens.

Anonymous DANZIG WITH THE WULFS December 19, 2017 4:32 PM  

Huckleberry -- est. 1977 wrote:If Hillary Clinton had won the election, The Last Jedi would have been a completely different movie.

rogue one is the story of the bothans like me that killed hillary clinton. the people that made that movie filmed it trying to paint the white/trumps/nazis as the losers per usual. they thought 2016 election outcome was certain.

jesus...can you just for a second imagine my joy watching that movie a month after literally shivving the life out of the commie clinton death star usa, and rogue one retelling the tale. rogue one kicked ass.

it's just that all the shitlibs watching had no idea that rogue one is a true story of 2016- just not how they envisioned it. i think that is what added to the joyous sensation of that movie.

it was my destiny, yo.

Blogger James Dixon December 19, 2017 4:47 PM  

> The only critic I ever paid attention to was Roger Ebert.

The best thing about Siskel and Ebert reviewing a movie was not that they could tell me whether they liked the movie or not, but that by the time they were done I could tell whether I would like it or not. I've never known any other reviewer or reviewers who could do that.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr December 19, 2017 4:51 PM  

@39: Oh, I can think of a slew of books that would make fantastic films.

"The Mote in God's Eye" would be tremendous. I'll be honest, "Footfall" was bland until the last quarter of the book, but "Mote" was the Niven/Pournelle team's masterpiece.

Most of Heinlein's juveniles would make into great films. "Starship Troopers" would take very careful scriptwork, it's really an essay on patriotism and duty disguised as a novel. My money would be on "Citizen of the Galaxy".

Or you could go straight to the source. Doc Smith's Lensman Series. THE Epic Space Opera.

And John Wright is cranking out some very film-able works. "Somewhither" begs for a film adaption.

Blogger Al December 19, 2017 4:52 PM  

I remember standing in line at 5-years-old to see the first Star Wars in 1977. I recently watched those first three movies again. Except for the music, they're dreadful. Absolutely dreadful. Horrible acting across the board--especially by Hamill and Fisher--and ridiculous scripts. Only permanent adolescents continue to sing the praises of Star Wars.

Anonymous 8859 ways to be adorable. December 19, 2017 5:00 PM  

Remember, more than half liked it. That's usually enough to be elected POTUS.
I suspect it's more than half saying in front of the folks they like and went to overpriced theaters with "I make smart entertainment shopping choices"

Blogger Al December 19, 2017 5:01 PM  

With all the ghetto behavior in movie theaters today, do whites still go to them? Amazing!

Anonymous Man of the Atom December 19, 2017 5:09 PM  

Napoleon 12pdr wrote:@39:
Oh, I can think of a slew of books that would make fantastic films.


Comic book/Graphic novel adaptations as well.

"The Mote in God's Eye" would be tremendous. I'll be honest, "Footfall" was bland until the last quarter of the book, but "Mote" was the Niven/Pournelle team's masterpiece.

Mote and "Lucifer's Hammer" would both be good source materials.

...

Or you could go straight to the source. Doc Smith's Lensman Series. THE Epic Space Opera.

Yes. Show DC how Green Lantern should be done.

And John Wright is cranking out some very film-able works. "Somewhither" begs for a film adaption.

Yes. And the rest of the series.

Blogger Man of the West December 19, 2017 5:11 PM  

Not to shamelessly plug my own stuff on Vox's site (even though I am doing just that), but in case anyone is interested, here is a different take on the movie:

"Star Wars The Last Jedi was Awesome...for Nationalists, the Hard Right & Ethnic Europeans That Is"

Found here: https://youtu.be/jeTQBRGYQ78

Cheers,

MOTW

Blogger Lovekraft December 19, 2017 5:11 PM  

In case that reddit link was passed over, here's an excerpt. Some great stuff.

"A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, the White Men Conservative Capitalist Empire hounded the Diverse Women's Progressive Socialist Resistance.
The White Men Empire is headed by three White Men who are ugly, shrill and insane. The Gurrl Power Resistance is led by three women who are beautiful, regal and savvy.
Despite their best efforts, the women of the Gurrl Power Resistance are hampered by the incompetence of the few men they still harbor among their ranks. The most incompetent of all is Dashing Alpha Male Fighter Pilot, whose testosterone-driven animal brain leads him from one blunder to the next, with the women forced to clean up after him."

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/7kvh20/star_wars_the_last_white_men/

Anonymous BBGKB December 19, 2017 5:28 PM  

who Rey’s parents are, and the answer (nobody special) wasn’t very satisfying...This is seen in Rey’s backstory in which it is revealed that her parents were essentially meth-junkies.

Even Latrina's 21 crackbabies can have totes midi-chlorians

Asking people on the way out of the theater is no good. Give them time to process it.

What theaters are they going to?

elite squadron of Star Destroyers failing to catch a single Rebel transport ship that is taking 20 hours to run out of gas

must have come up with the plot after that Brazilian soccer teams plane ran out of gas. Non Asian minority piloting

Blogger YIH December 19, 2017 5:30 PM  

Cloom Glue wrote:@63 per this: Let me guess, you didn't actually click that link did you?

---

I don't get your point for certain. Are you talking about my display of your link? Mine was not meant to be a link. I could not get my reply to post without mangling your stuff. I was not being crafty by editing the copy/paste html to get it to display inside the italics.

My assertion stands, that those searches are not what we think they mean. I am being helpful, not critical.

If you do my search you will see it is 364,000 but not of what I searched, but lesser searches of individual words, apparently.


My point is I've yet to see anything that truly speaks positive about TLJ, at best, it's mixed. Many come off as ''I went in expecting to at least like this new one, but as I'm leaving I realized it just really wasn't any good at all''. I think one of the reasons ''the critics'' were so positive was not only were they watching, they were mentally (or on paper) taking notes, preparing for their writeup. IOW not watching it as a moviegoer but as a job.

Blogger YIH December 19, 2017 5:41 PM  

Al wrote:With all the ghetto behavior in movie theaters today, do whites still go to them? Amazing!
Depends on where the theater is, if it's a mall, no way. Ghetto, often uncomfortable seats, and walls so thin you can sometimes hear other movies.

Anonymous 8859 ways to be adorable. December 19, 2017 5:53 PM  

Idiotic. If you want something removed from your belief system's scripture, just stop studying it.

Disney ain't the Pope.

Blogger SemiSpook37 December 19, 2017 6:05 PM  

James wrote:To be honest, has Star Wars been worth watching since The Empire Strikes Back? Starting with Return of the Jedi, Lucas's franchise became a marketing franchise. Since then, its been all CGI with no decent plot or script. In fact, Star Wars scripts were never top shelf.

I'm of the same opinion here. I didn't think it was horrible, but I also didn't think it was a cinematic tour de force, either. I sort of get why the Hollyweird crowd collectively creamed their pants back in 1977, but now, with so many other options out there, along with the collective shrieking of the fanbois, not really getting the whole big deal feeling like I did back in '83 for ROTJ.

Like Vox, Episode I kind of ruined it for me; it just took a while after the other two prequels had come out. Of course, we all saw where things were headed when the Special Editions were released two years prior to the prequels; the problem was the nostalgia hounds didn't want to admit that their childhood had already been damaged.

Personally, I'm already over it. I've got plenty of other things to occupy my time, and just acknowledging that yes, they made a sequel, and yes, the execution kinda sucked, is all the energy that really needs to be expended on this film. I'm not saying that ignoring this will necessarily make it go away, but that indifference can be extremely powerful when it can take out all of the preening on either side of the debate.

Anonymous A. Reader December 19, 2017 6:06 PM  

John Rocker’s review on MPC is worth a read...

“All those minor details faded away in the theater, and a single gut-level realization washed over me: The Last Jedi is simply the product of a different society than mine. I have no connection to it, its creators probably regard me as a cousin-f**king proto-Nazi worthy of extinction, and the values underpinning it are entirely at odds with mine. None of the hopes or dreams of my region and ethnic bloc were present. Maybe it moved some strange far-flung bugpeople, but it left me feeling genuinely alienated.”

https://mpcdot.com/forums/topic/7948-star-wars/page__st__1160#entry403383

Blogger Stephen December 19, 2017 6:46 PM  

The trailer looked visually interesting and made me want to see it. But I am glad that I have heard enough spoilers to put me off wasting my money on Jewood. Like TFA I will wait until it comes out on PBay to hate watch it.

Disney paid $4.05 billion for Star Wars. I don't think that investment is going to pay off. Surely people can only go to nostalgia theatre so many times before they realize that it is not recapturing their childhood. How much Star Wars stuff can their be before the market is saturated, especially if it is tainted with SJW crap.

In fact this might go for the movie industry in general. Maybe it was also because I was younger but in the 90's and maybe as late as the mid 00's there was a lot less special effects laden movies around. So I could not get enough of visually interesting sci fi or fantasy films. But now there seems to be a new one every couple of weeks, and the ever growing back catalogue still exists and are much easier to find than they used to be at the VHS store. With such over saturation of the market can spectacle really continue to sell movie tickets? Its not spectacular if you can see it every day. Our TV's are better these days also so I am always willing these days to wait for Pbay to satisfy my curiosity for free.

Anonymous Matthew Alexander December 19, 2017 6:55 PM  

If spammers are responsible for the now 55% Rotten Tomato score among movie goers, one has trouble explaining its 7.8 on imdb.com, where new movies usually have ridiculously high scores if they are any good. 7.8 is absurdly low for a Star Wars movie that has just opened.

Blogger Bobiojimbo December 19, 2017 7:03 PM  

Ha! A more accurate summary I have not read! That pretty much encapsulates my thoughts.

Anonymous Sim1776 December 19, 2017 7:37 PM  

Exactly! I thought it was OK upon leaving the theater but some things didn't sit right even at that point. Watching a childhood hero eviscerated and turned into an angry, brooding "dry drunk" was infuriating as my thoughts reexamined the movie. Even in the theater, I thought the landspeeder cockpit scene was just an ad for Diversity, Inc. A better plot line would have been Kylo and Rey joining forces. Meh...
On a side note, Kylo was actually lying about Rey's parents. It's strongly implied in BF2 that Rey's parents are Iden Versio and her former teammate, Del, who were members of an elite imperial unit.

Blogger Chris Lutz December 19, 2017 7:48 PM  

@95 Most of Heinlein's juveniles are written in such a way they could easily be made to inherit the same universe. I would make them with a 50's technology esthetic and introduce the films as being in a parallel universe where Mars and Venus are actually inhabitable. If done right, they would be fun little movies. Netflix should do them.

Anonymous Alice De Goon December 19, 2017 7:57 PM  

@64 They did a reversals on sexual roles with the chick at the end of the movie and it just did not work. The last scene of the movie the girl is watching the wave come in which will kill them, while the guy rests his head on her shoulder. Barf. The reversal of roles ruined the scene and what would have been a poignant ending. I was just gay. All the rest of the special effects and good plot lines that kind of pre sequels of the first three star wars movies was killed by this ridiculous inversion of basic human roles.


You can thank your average high school/college English teacher for that. "Sexist" writing (that is, writing that accurately reflects biological sex roles,) is continuously culled and corrected by an army of catlady educators. If you don't believe me, check out online amateur/fan writing collectives like Fantfiction.net or the SCP Foundation site. Start a drinking game where you take a swig everytime you read about a 98-pound female soldier who swears like a longshoreman, drinks like an elephant, can double-wield a pair of 50 caliber machine guns or effortlessly shoot an arrow with a 200lb draw weight. You'll be drunk in no time.

r/K Selection theory states that in periods of prosperity, gender roles become the opposite of what they are during times of scarcity. If trends continue like this, we'll soon be seeing men having artificial wombs compulsively grafted onto them.

Blogger papabear December 19, 2017 8:21 PM  

Haha Ben Shapiro is disappointed but not for the reasons one might think? First time I've heard his actual voice. Reminds me of (((Mark Levin))). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-t4bU3-lHA

Anonymous Madcat December 19, 2017 9:48 PM  

and the answer (nobody special) wasn’t very satisfying...This is seen in Rey’s backstory in which it is revealed that her parents were essentially meth-junkies.

Obviously, Phantom Menace was terrible for countless reason, but I don't remember people whining about how Anakin being a nobody slave from a nobody slave mom was ruining Western Civilization...

Anonymous Ain December 19, 2017 9:52 PM  

"The question to ask isn't "is the media lying to us", but rather "how is the media lying to us, and why?""

And the government.

Blogger cmbaileytstc December 19, 2017 10:06 PM  

25000

Blogger So Meh December 19, 2017 10:23 PM  

All Good Things Must End...per the last Star Trek Next Generation episode. So sad to see Star Wars go full Disney SJW. Will be my first Star Wars movie not to see opening weekend. On the TV front tried to watch Christmas Story Live. They added new Jewish neighbors to teach everyone the true meaning of Christmas and of course a Black Santa Claus. Which we all know were common in 1930s Indiana Department Stores. On a more positive note....watched on AmazonPrime "Sicario". From watching the movie trailer thought it was just a Mary Sue FBI movie, but surprise...it wasn't. Some slow spots...but good movie. Watch it and Nacros on Netflix and wash some of that Disney SJW out of your hair. enjoy.

Blogger Stephen December 19, 2017 11:09 PM  

@Madcat problem is they made a big mystery out of her parentage in the previous film which makes nobodies very disappointing. If she just had some junker parents on Jakku instead of making her a mystery orphan no one would of complained.

No one complained about the origin of the Emperor not being explained in the original trilogy either. That is because the Empire was established as the status quo at the beginning of the film series. But when you have a sequel you have to put more effort into explaining the things that have changed since the end of the previous film.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents December 20, 2017 12:26 AM  

Glad I spent some money on Alt*Hero rather than this movie.

Anonymous Jack Amok December 20, 2017 12:53 AM  

What astonished me the most was how fundamentally unattractive the cast was. Daisy Ridley didn't do much for me in The Force Awakens, and the new, slightly thicker version of MaryRey still doesn't. But she's the closest thing to an attractive woman in the movie.

Most of the men are ugly too.

Mark Hamill and Carrie Fischer both looked like hell. Moved like it too. They looked painfully decrepit. Then we've got Skelator Laura Dern as Vice Admiral Ballgown with her sidekick Commander Schnozzz. (and add Adam Driver's Darth Emo and you've got some real beaks in the movie). And of course Body-Positive Korean Chunk, er, I mean Chick. It was a movie full of physically unattractive people. Or people made to look back (Billie Lourd isn't ugly, but she looked mousy and plain in this flick).



Blogger flyingtiger December 20, 2017 1:41 AM  

I stopped caring about the Star Wars franchise when George Lucas introduced the Victor Charlie Ewaks.

Blogger Tatooine Sharpshooters' Club December 20, 2017 1:47 AM  

@22 - "Scienze, not mysticism, inheritance or something in the unique biology of an individual (insinuating inheritance via DNA)"

Except of course, for Shmi's virginal conception and birthing of the Little Sand Hater, a plot point that strangely (to me at least), doesn't seem to get the requisite amount of derision, or even mentions.

Blogger Christopher B December 20, 2017 4:23 AM  

The only thing consistent about the explanation of The Force in SW movies is inconsistency. It exists and is transmitted by whatever means advances the plot. If the movie(s) need to create a person who has The Force without knowing it (Leia) then it's midi-chlorians. If you need an excuse for psuedo-parental relationships (ObiWan/Luke, Palpatine/Vader, Siths, etc) then you develop The Force by training. If you need an excuse for somebody to have amazing magical abilities, just give them The Force (Ren, Child Vader in TPM). It's as if the logic behind Warp Drive was different in every Star Trek movie. I'm not saying ST didn't create Warp Drive quirks when needed (why can't you just replicate dilithium crystals for pete's sake?) but at least dilithium is always needed to make a Warp Drive work.

Blogger Christopher B December 20, 2017 4:47 AM  

What you're really saying is that the plot hole has existed since at least Episode 2/5 (The Empire Strikes Back) revealed Luke, Leia, and Vader were all related. If the Force is like fire then it exists wholely outside an individual, i.e. the midi-clorian inheritance concept is utterly unneeded. You've just blown a major plot driver of the entire first trilogy out of the water.

Blogger Christopher B December 20, 2017 5:18 AM  

I disagree with the idea that midi-clorian are unnecessary. In a perfectly imagined SW universe that might be true, but in SW as written you really have no alternate explanation for why the relationship of Luke, Leia, and Vader/Anakin is significant. Either their physical relationship as parent and siblings means something to The Force, or it's just an odd quirk on the level of discovering you and a person you just met have a common friend (though if what has been said here about Lucas is true he probably got off on the idea of people cheering an incestuous relationship). There might be ways to make both elements (heredity and universality) less contradictory but the subsequent films have made hash out of it due to the writers, directors, and/or Lucas grabbing whichever explanation suited their fancy (or their politics) at the moment.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 20, 2017 5:30 AM  

Christopher B wrote:(why can't you just replicate dilithium crystals for pete's sake?)How Much For Just the Planet by John Ford has a very funny explanation of this

Blogger Christopher B December 20, 2017 5:38 AM  

Making Luke, Leia, and Vader related, and implying that Leia could somehow use The Force without any training was the origin of the plot hole. There would have been ways to resolve this (The Force being expressed in different ways through different training) but the Equalist ethos of the 1970s and 1980s just wouldn't allow a girl to use the Force in a way that was different from men.

Anonymous Dalo December 20, 2017 6:23 AM  

Haha, nice ��

Blogger Amy December 20, 2017 6:34 AM  

Tatooine Shapshooter, I forgot about that...yeah, one day she just woke up pregnant with a wunderkind. Like the universe was planting the seeds for a decades-long battle to see “good” triumph over Reality.

Now that I think on it, other comments have it right: Palpatine did nothing wrong. The rebels are commies who hate capitalism and by their very actions cause the grip to tighten.

Star Wars is a nice little fantasy story for kids. I loved it when I was little but I have put away childish things. The memories are good ones and I’m happy to leave them that way. Reviving dead corpses never turns out the way you think it will.

Blogger Christopher B December 20, 2017 7:12 AM  

One thing that people who didn't see the original Star Wars movies as teens or young adults don't realize is how much Princess Leia was the prototype for the uber-competent 98lb kungfu fighting female special agent. There had never been a female character like her dropped into a movie and not given an extraordinary backstory. Even Luke, by contrast, has valid explanations for his piloting and fighting skills. Leia has none of that, even comes from a background where you'd expect she wouldn't learn these things, and yet is able to pilot all kinds of spacecraft and vehicles, and make deadeye blaster shots.

Blogger tublecane December 20, 2017 9:35 AM  

@128-I don't remember any implication that Leia could use the force without any training. The sum total of her explicit force manipulation in Return of the Jedi, as I recall, is that she senses Luke is her brother. There's nothing in the other movies suggesting she has any special powers, probably because no one thought up the idea that she has Skywalker blood yet.

There is that scene where Yoda and Ghost Obi-Wan discuss the fact that "there is another" when Luke runs off half-cocked to save his friends in Empire Strikes Back. I think Leia being the last hope is retroactive continuity. Anyway, say Luke died when he jumped into that bottomless pit. Yoda or Ghost Obi-Wan would get word out to Leia, but it's not as if she would spontaneously be able to do anything and everything force-related. They would've tried to train her, just like with Luke.

Blogger tublecane December 20, 2017 9:52 AM  

@124-Baby Anakin isn't like Rey. He doesn't have magical abilities pop up out of the blue. Granted, it was silly beyond words that they had him win the space battle by accident. Everyone said so at the time, and criticized it along similar lines to how they criticized Rey's impromptu mastery of anything and everything. But with Anakin it wasn't so impromptu.

The Phantom Menace established that he had trained as a pod racer for some time. He isn't shown trying it for the first time and suddenly realized he could perform as a master. He did use the force to race pods, unknowingly. But that was his natural force-sensitivity aiding him, not doing everything for him. He didn't managed to outrace the best racers on the planet on day one simply because he was born awesome.

He did sit down in a spaceship and win a major battle on his first try. Which was stupid. But the ship was shown to have automatic pilot and guidance that brought him there, plus we're supposed to believe his pod skills transferred, I think.

In any case, he's shown at most to be a natural pilot and mechanic. Rey, on the other hand, is shown to possess two skills at the beginning of the Farce Awakens: scavenging and wielding a bo-staff. That's it. If her talents in the rest of the movie were shown to be directly related to those, I don't think people would have complained. Unless they have her a ridiculous kiddie fantasy sequence like with Lil' Anny.

Instead of one stupid sequence, the entire movie was a grrl power fantasy instead of a kiddie fantasy. Rey could spontaneously: pilot the Millennium Falcon, repair the Falcon better than its longtime owner, fight with a lightsaber against a trained and force-masterful opponent, use the Obi-Wan mind-control trick, read a force-master's thoughts with the force, and so on. It was nothing like Anakin's special skills, which were at least the result of implied off-screen practice.

Blogger tublecane December 20, 2017 9:55 AM  

@115-Other posters have pointed this out, but Anakin Skywalker was implied to have had a Virgin Birth, and therefore was Space Jesus. Which at least has some connection to traditional Western Civilization, though it may have been in poor taste (if not sacrilegious).

Anonymous c matt December 20, 2017 10:09 AM  

Opening box office can be easily explained by dashed hopes. Everyone hopes the next Star Wars installment will capture the magic of the original, but invariably gets disappointed (some installments disappoint more than others). Rogue One probably came the closest to recapturing the essence of the originals. The true test: Would I sit through it more than once? Saw the original series (at the theater and on TV) too many times to count. The new installments? I don't recall viewing any of them more than once. That, and seeing the next Star Wars installment has become a sort of pseudo religious obligation for Star Wars fans. It is kind of like Apple - they could come out with a phone that totally sucks but people would still buy it.

Blogger kevmalone December 20, 2017 10:35 AM  

#118 So Meh. Thanks. Added to my Watchlist.

Blogger Al December 20, 2017 12:38 PM  

It's amazing how many men, even among the alt-righters, remain interested in new Star Wars garbage. Permanent adolescence indeed reigns supreme across the board, from pitiful SJW gammas to alt-righters and beyond.

Amy @130 has it exactly right in echoing St. Paul:

"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child. But, when I became a man, I put away the things of a child."

-1 Cor. 13:11

Blogger The Anti-Gnostic December 20, 2017 3:43 PM  

A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents wrote:With so many works of science fiction written since the 1930's why save the mudball that Di$ney War$ has become? Video is cheaper than ever. CGI costs keep dropping.

Non-Swamp producers, non-Pedowood actors and screenwriters. Pick stories by dead writers whose estates will negotiate, or still living writers who would like to see a story on the screen. Go back to Gernsback's time if copywrite is an issue.

Got a big budget with a ton of CGI? Make Niven / Pournelle's Footfall in 4K or build up a Man-Kzin Wars series to compete with George RRRape Martin. Pick an old Andre Norton story; coming-of-age but with no homopedo. Update Saberhagen's Berzerkers as a series that could run for a while where real men and real women face Death in the metal and worse-than-death, Goodlife in the face.

There's a whole universe of stories out there worth rescuing from the dusty shelves. Lucas sold his, it can't be saved and doesn't need to be.


I think this is a great idea.

Blogger John Bradley December 20, 2017 3:44 PM  

See the recently posted RedLetterMedia review, wherein they savage the "OMG! I f***ing LOVE Star Wars" fans as religionists or party members with an allegiance to the 'world' even though the films keep being disappointments.

Sort of like the GOP.

Blogger The Anti-Gnostic December 20, 2017 4:20 PM  

96. Al December 19, 2017 4:52 PM
I remember standing in line at 5-years-old to see the first Star Wars in 1977. I recently watched those first three movies again. Except for the music, they're dreadful. Absolutely dreadful. Horrible acting across the board--especially by Hamill and Fisher--and ridiculous scripts. Only permanent adolescents continue to sing the praises of Star Wars.


I'm old enough to have seen the first three movies in their original releases. I haven't seen them since, but I've suspected they did not age well.

I saw a couple of the prequels and saw Rogue One. I think that's the last time this franchise will get my money. The silly hot-potato race keeping an actual floppy disk from Vader epitomized this. And the control panel for the transmitter that's set out on a platform 1,000 feet high. Then there's the flat, uninteresting characters with baffling motivations. And then everybody dies, for the purely pedestrian reason that the series is endlessly regressing on itself and the characters don't show up later. It's like a dad patching together a bedtime story for the kids and they catch him with some inconsistency from the week before, so dad has to scramble for some contrived explanation the kids will pretend to accept. Of course, the average dad has way more inner depth and practical life experience to draw on than these writers.

Blogger สุพรรษา ทองมี December 20, 2017 9:38 PM  

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Blogger Al December 20, 2017 9:56 PM  

@140

The original SW movies have surely not aged well. Spare yourself the extreme disappointment of watching them again. But if you do, and if don't then find them thoroughly ridiculous (apart from the music, which is what's really responsible for the success of these movies), this is a catastrophic sign that your tastes have failed to develop and that you're, alas, yet another permanent adolescent.

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