ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2018 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Monday, January 15, 2018

EVS vs Vox

We're going live at 7 PM... we are live, here is the link.

Labels:

120 Comments:

Blogger Nate January 15, 2018 7:19 PM  

is that 7pm murica time or 7pm eastern commie time?

OpenID vfmshadow0342 January 15, 2018 7:21 PM  

Nate, It's live now

Blogger bob kek mando January 15, 2018 7:42 PM  

"...a super hero we can aspire to be like"

*facedesk*

uh, i hate to break this too you, but i don't think you're ever going to have a beneficial mutation due to radioactive spider bite or exposure to a gamma bomb.

and Superman was born on Krypton. he is 'Racial Privilege', literally defined.

Blogger Ingot9455 January 15, 2018 7:44 PM  

He always agrees with you, then his bowtie spins and he complains.
Wonderful answers.

Anonymous Viiidad January 15, 2018 7:45 PM  

Geez, Youtube commenters are idiots. Vox is killing it, though.

Blogger TheMaleRei January 15, 2018 7:49 PM  

Vox is killing it.
EVS is clueless about the Overton Window. When your enemy moves the Overton Window, which the Left and SJW's have done, to continue to play things by their rule is to lose in perpetuity (and be annihilated), the Window must be pushed back.

Anonymous The Observer January 15, 2018 8:04 PM  

Appeals to incredulity abound.

Also, the implication that all the big A-H donators are fakes? Ha.

Anonymous Nathan January 15, 2018 8:06 PM  

The Gaiman comments triggered the peanut gallery. Can't say Vox is wrong, though. Gaiman got were he was in part by talent, but also by a hell of a lot of convention fandom hype.

Blogger S1AL January 15, 2018 8:09 PM  

Yeah, I haven't been impressed by Gaiman's novels, either. But man, these people are triggered by that comment.

Blogger Ahärôwn January 15, 2018 8:14 PM  

Vox is going to have a game publishing company!

Either I missed this earlier on the blog, or Vox hasn't announced it before now.

:D

Anonymous Man of the Atom January 15, 2018 8:15 PM  

S1AL wrote:Yeah, I haven't been impressed by Gaiman's novels, either. But man, these people are triggered by that comment.

Gaiman, Kirby, Lee. Gods to these people -- Vox spake HERESY!

Anonymous Viiidad January 15, 2018 8:28 PM  

I hadn't bought a comic book in 22 years until QM launched. There's definitely a big potential market out there which isn't paying any attention to comics right now.

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky January 15, 2018 8:31 PM  

It was a very good convo overall. I don't buy the line that Alt-Hero is going to poison the well for everything else, nor the line that moderates will be turned off by anything that doesn't align with them. Vox has got the better handle on the moderate mindset by far -- be a winner, they'll follow you.

The SJWs in live chat were awful, of course. They are such buttheads. Feels like someday I'm going to need an Uzi.

Anonymous Man of the Atom January 15, 2018 8:35 PM  

@13. a deplorable rubberducky
The SJWs in live chat were awful, of course. They are such buttheads.


More likely Alt-Retard than SJWs, but YMMV.

Anonymous Nathan January 15, 2018 8:41 PM  

"More likely Alt-Retard than SJWs, but YMMV."

I have to agree. Most of the comments mirrored the attacks on Vox from Anglin's leg-humpers on Gab.

Blogger ghostfromplanetspook January 15, 2018 8:42 PM  

You guys should do that again was a fun stream! Perhaps advertising it better might help next time it seemed like a small turn out.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer January 15, 2018 8:43 PM  

Man of the Atom wrote:@13. a deplorable rubberducky

The SJWs in live chat were awful, of course. They are such buttheads.


More likely Alt-Retard than SJWs, but YMMV.


The Alt-Retard was strong in the comments. It's amazing how transparent their cheap tactics are and how many people fall for them. That Jeremiah Busch guy had a ton of idiots running around in circles even though he alternated between being a blatant Stormpooper to trying to claim that Vox was a devotee of Anglin.

Blogger DJ | AMDG January 15, 2018 8:45 PM  

This was one of your best live performances, Vox.

I suspect this will garner many more comic fans for your books. So glad you nailed Diamond in your arguments as the main enemy of this industry. However converged DC and Marvel are, there are plenty of other (small pub) works that are not converged, but that also cannot thrive under the thumb of Diamond. I bet you’ve made fans of several of them, too.

Well done.

Blogger Markku January 15, 2018 8:47 PM  

People don't understand about pathways to success. There was no pathway to us starting out with non-political comics, having only the idea "let's do a comic!" The only idea that could ever have brought that kind of money without any comics credentials to show, was Alt-Hero. How would his primary desire for what we should do, have even theoretically materialized?

Blogger Markku January 15, 2018 8:49 PM  

That's what Vox was saying about Trump. It's not enough to convince people that you have a great vision. You must also convince them that you have a realistic pathway to that vision, where every step leads naturally to the other.

Blogger SmockMan January 15, 2018 8:51 PM  

Was actually a good interview. He skeptical of Vox Day, which is how I felt when I first started reading Vox.

Very good discussion about comics, castalia house, and business.

Blogger Markku January 15, 2018 8:54 PM  

Visions are a dime a dozen. MAPS to visions are not.

Anonymous Matvei Daniilovich. January 15, 2018 8:56 PM  

Gotten lots of comments from ppl like you. Untapped market out there.

Blogger Dave January 15, 2018 8:56 PM  

Viiidad wrote:I hadn't bought a comic book in 22 years until QM launched. There's definitely a big potential market out there which isn't paying any attention to comics right now.

This I think is where EVS is having a hard time getting his head around that Vox/CH/Arkhaven aren't just chasing the ever-shrinking present day comics readers. If that was all it was about, it would be a losing proposition before it even started.

Anonymous Matvei Daniilovich. January 15, 2018 8:58 PM  

Noticed that also. Ethan had to be sure to say that Gaiman is an 'excellent writer.' Let it go sheeple.

Blogger Markku January 15, 2018 9:00 PM  

Gaiman is great at touching the numinous with his stories. That doesn't mean he's great at every single aspect of creating literature.

Anonymous Matvei Daniilovich January 15, 2018 9:00 PM  

I wonder how many of those triggered have actually even read Gaiman. The only person I've ever met who even read Sandman is Vox himself. LOL.

Blogger Matticus Rex January 15, 2018 9:04 PM  

That was an entertaining and enlightening conversation; I thought both of you conducted yourselves well. Learned a bit about both of you, thanks for taking the time to do this - and I echo the comment that asked for better advertising next time, if there is going to be one.

Anonymous Sunderr January 15, 2018 9:06 PM  

Yeah, he'll end up working with you on Alt-Hero. I think it's inevitable now.

Anonymous Nathan January 15, 2018 9:08 PM  

The Sandman volume where Dream goes to hell is one of my all time favorites. And Gaiman's done some good TV scripts. But Neverwhere and Anansi Boys are better off forgotten, Stardust was a better movie, and American Gods relied too much on childish shock.

Anonymous Looking Glass January 15, 2018 9:11 PM  

@27 Matvei Daniilovich

As the Comic Book movie hype has shown, there are all of this "classic!", "amazing!" and "legendary!" storylines that almost no one has actually read. Sure, they might be good, but you're hyping a movie that upwards of 1000x more people will see than have ever actually read them.

As to the interview, I only caught a really small part, but EVS made a comment about wanting comics to be an escapist place. He clearly has assumptions about the nature of all story telling if he really thinks there is a safe, non-political space in general. There is always cultural trends in all fiction, they are inescapable. However, we're now always in an era where you are forced to either Submit or Starve. It's not gotten less political, it's just gotten more overtly conformist.

Blogger Markku January 15, 2018 9:23 PM  

There is some amount of non-political comics business we lose, and talent we lose, because through Alt-Hero they now know that our core group is right-wing and extremely hostile towards SJW stuff. On the other hand, there is talent we gain, and business we gain, because they now trust our judgment on the non-political comics, knowing we won't smuggle in SJW stuff through the back door.

Blogger Markku January 15, 2018 9:27 PM  

Our calculation is that the gains outweigh the losses. Someone disagrees? Fine. Start your own comics publishing house and show how your model does better. We'll eat the humble pie if you do.

Blogger James Dixon January 15, 2018 9:28 PM  

> I hadn't bought a comic book in 22 years until QM launched.

We moved to our current area in 1994. I think I stopped buying before comics shortly before we moved, since I only know of one comic shop in this area, and I think I visited it all of two times. So that's about the right range, yes.

Blogger Edwin Boyette January 15, 2018 9:28 PM  

Vox you did well, thank you for going on with EVS!

Blogger Dave January 15, 2018 9:30 PM  

EVS really focused on the large donors on the Alt★Hero FreeStartr, however, the average for $242,800 and 2187 backers is just over $110/backer. I doubt that's out of line with a majority of crowdfunders that reach similar level of rewards and funding.

Another aspect he doesn't appreciate is the Alt★Hero crowdfunding project wasn't just about the comics. Many of the backers, myself included, weren't just in it for the comics, but because we're aware there is a cultural war raging in western civilization and we're taking a side.

Anonymous Matvei Daniilovich January 15, 2018 9:33 PM  

Vox's response to Evs cry for escapism was perfect. Let them have their escapism. We don't mind. But SJWs won't rest until they've consumed everything like a swarm of locusts. Escapism won't survive without the AltRight busting evil in the mouth.

Anonymous franklinjennings January 15, 2018 9:36 PM  

Jolly good show tonight, Supreme Dark Lord.

I haven't bought a comic since a year after Superman died. It didn't seem political to me at that time, they just seemed to start to suck as the price climbed higher. I cut my teeth on old Marvel and DC comics from the 30s to the 80s, all those comics my dad and his brothers collected. I have a STRONG affinity for them, and I want my kid(s) to learn reading with them too. I didn't think it'd be possible... before you announced Alt-Hero. So thanks, and here's to your long lasting success!

Anonymous Matvei Daniilovich January 15, 2018 9:39 PM  

They can cry about not wanting to participate in the culture war all they want to, but it's a reality & it's not going away & eventually you have to pick a side. If you're lukewarm you become vomit.

Blogger RC January 15, 2018 9:42 PM  

"Visions are a dime a dozen. MAPS to visions are not." - Markku

Amen.

"1730. A vision without a task is but a dream. A task without a vision is but a drudgery. A vision and a task are the hope of the world." – Inscription upon wall of a Sussex, England church

Anonymous franklinjennings January 15, 2018 9:46 PM  

I meant to add...

The very first panels of Alt*Hero you released reminded me viscerally of the first time I saw Rogue in an Xmen comic. Not just the "schwing" factor, but something deeper about my childhood under the live oaks in the hay loft where I would hide to read. I knew when I saw her holding her ground with Capt Europa that fun comics were being resurrected.

Thanks again.

Anonymous Andrew E. January 15, 2018 9:48 PM  

About half way through the interview and am confused by the hosts confusion over the political issue. Has this guy been paying attention the last 2.5 years? He wants a neutral place to enjoy comics. Does he understand that there is no such thing as "neutrality". That the cultural assumptions that underpin "neutrality" are the exact things the SJWs are targeting with all their lies and attacks?

Blogger dtungsten January 15, 2018 9:51 PM  

I've met Neal Gaiman, and haven't even read Sandman, so I agree.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd January 15, 2018 9:51 PM  

"The SJWs in live chat were awful, of course. They are such buttheads. Feels like someday I'm going to need an Uzi."

I prefer a FAL. There was an Israeli version of the FAL, if that's important.

"... however, the average for $242,800 and 2187 backers is just over $110/backer."

Wow! I'm above average! Although not by much.

Blogger Matthew January 15, 2018 10:03 PM  

We're going to win.

Blogger Lazarus January 15, 2018 10:04 PM  

EV sounds like an interested yet reluctant virgin.

Blogger Matthew January 15, 2018 10:05 PM  

Also, EVS is an honest interlocutor. Bravo.

Blogger Salt January 15, 2018 10:09 PM  

EVS wants comics to be an oasis, escapism away from (SJW) politics.

Welcome to Comicsgate.

Blogger Lazarus January 15, 2018 10:11 PM  

Vox is actually schooling EV on comics. I hope he listens.

Anonymous Adlow January 15, 2018 10:14 PM  

Good interview, although I laughed when you thought he was referring to Martin Luther when he asked if MLK was an SJW.

Anonymous Man of the Atom January 15, 2018 10:15 PM  

Matthew wrote:We're going to win.

Deus Vult!

Blogger Michael Maier January 15, 2018 10:39 PM  

Fun interview but Mr. EVS has some huge blind spots.

And I hope Diamond is bankrupted soon.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums January 15, 2018 10:49 PM  

I liked how EVS came in swinging saying that moderates don't care about politics, want politics out of comics, and Vox is doomed to fail because he's not catering to the moderates.

Then at the end he seemed to be completely sold on the idea of Alt*Hero and judging by the long pause he had when Vox hinted at a job offering I'm guessing he's considering jumping on the bandwagon.

Further evidence that moderates always tend to follow the strongest voice in the room.

Blogger Nate January 15, 2018 11:02 PM  

ethan is going to look at the numbers on this video and his eyes are going to pop out

Anonymous Jack Amok January 15, 2018 11:08 PM  

Vox, Chris isn't with Wargaming any more. He's setting up his own new studio.

Blogger GraceIronwood January 15, 2018 11:08 PM  

heard some of this...comments were a bit shilly

Anonymous The Observer January 15, 2018 11:13 PM  

@36

A few days ago, EVS was pushing the narrative on his Twitter that A-H was being funded by a few big financiers to push propaganda and that there was no market from the common man for it. The questions about the big backers were probably aimed from that angle.

Blogger Nate January 15, 2018 11:13 PM  

Vox:

Great comic authors... Walt Simonson. Trust me. or google. your call.

Anonymous VFM #3606 January 15, 2018 11:20 PM  

The Martin Luther thing was a riot. Most Europeans assume the Reformer when they hear King: he is that insignificant to the culture.

Blogger Nate January 15, 2018 11:44 PM  

dude that was absolutely fantastic. I don't know how a comic book guy could listen to that discussion and not come away fired up about the future.

Blogger tuberman January 15, 2018 11:44 PM  

Wuzzums Fuzzums wrote:I liked how EVS came in swinging saying that moderates don't care about politics, want politics out of comics, and Vox is doomed to fail because he's not catering to the moderates.

Then at the end he seemed to be completely sold on the idea of Alt*Hero and judging by the long pause he had when Vox hinted at a job offering I'm guessing he's considering jumping on the bandwagon.

Further evidence that moderates always tend to follow the strongest voice in the room.


He's not ready yet. he will wait a while to see. EVS has a narrow, but open viewpoint. I think his openness was due to VD's attitude, and he is obviously not a reader (of books).

I had a big laugh when he said in the comments that SJWs were wrong about a new "intelligent"audience would come about, and that VD is making the same mistake. There are so many assumptions in that opinion, which are just so wrong.

Overall though, good interview, and EVS was likable.

Blogger Nate January 15, 2018 11:45 PM  

also.. i said authors.. i meant artists. I'm tard.

Blogger Silly but True January 15, 2018 11:48 PM  

This was a great discussion.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 15, 2018 11:54 PM  

I think EVS came into it ready to go down a lot of paths that Vox just made obsolete by being gracious and open about the experimental nature of what he's doing. EVS thought it was going to be a political screedfest and it ended up a discussion of issues and options. So he pivoted to a much more productive discussions than was expected.

Good job Vox.

Blogger Jon D. January 15, 2018 11:57 PM  

Great job Vox. EVS I thought didn't come off as contentious. It was a good interview and chat all the way around. Appreciate the shout out too!

Anonymous Man of the Atom January 15, 2018 11:58 PM  

Nate wrote:Vox:

Great comic [artists]... Walt Simonson. Trust me. or google. your call.


Truth

Blogger tuberman January 16, 2018 12:01 AM  

Andrew E. wrote:About half way through the interview and am confused by the hosts confusion over the political issue. Has this guy been paying attention the last 2.5 years? He wants a neutral place to enjoy comics. Does he understand that there is no such thing as "neutrality". That the cultural assumptions that underpin "neutrality" are the exact things the SJWs are targeting with all their lies and attacks?

Yes, I think at some point I'd have just said that comics with real heroes and women who look like attractive normal women is already an affront against SJW comics, so might as will add some spice occasionally. In fact, VD did say that, and the positioning is absolutely necessary for success.

The neutral space is what SJWs are intent on destroying. So transparent.

Blogger Nate January 16, 2018 12:06 AM  

"Truth"

I myself would've gone with Thor 380...

Blogger Nate January 16, 2018 12:07 AM  

They told the epic story of the battle of Thor and Jurmangonde... all in splash pages. And it was glorious... and beautiful.. and epic.

To me... just to me... it was the greatest comic ever produced.

Anonymous Looking Glass January 16, 2018 12:10 AM  

@67 Nate

http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/thor_379-380.shtml

Blogger Bogey January 16, 2018 12:12 AM  

Ethan Van Sciver's latest videos where he turns traditional female characters into men in the name of diversity are hilarious.

Good interview. About half way through Scivner probably put away his garlic and crucifix.

Blogger Nate January 16, 2018 12:13 AM  

They skipped some of the last few pages. The Death Strike... and Thor unleashing the full power of Mjolnir.

I have 3 copies of that comic

Anonymous Brick Hardslab January 16, 2018 12:26 AM  

Simonson, Truman, Grell, and Baron were my favorites. Simonson's run on Thor is epic they have some of it on kindle unlimited now.

Anonymous Man of the Atom January 16, 2018 12:38 AM  

Simonson on Manhunter is why Thor 380 exists. Have autographed 337 ... My fav.

Anonymous Man of the Atom January 16, 2018 12:49 AM  

Nexus ... Baron & Rude

Superb

Anonymous E Deploribus Unum January 16, 2018 12:54 AM  

Wish I'd been around for this discussion. Walt Simonson from beginning to end is sheer genius. But Vox's performance tonight was right up there. Kudos.

Blogger Nate January 16, 2018 1:00 AM  

We're still here E

Blogger Nate January 16, 2018 1:01 AM  

this reminds me of Vox's Gen X nostalgia project. i am convinced there is a HUGE comic market out there that just walked away. IF we had something to come back too... to introduce our kids to... we would.

Blogger bob kek mando January 16, 2018 1:02 AM  

it's controversial to notice that Gaiman is highly repetitive and a merely adequate prose author?

*scratches head*

and just for reference purposes, i have the entire original Sandman run.

Vox has a character named ... "Shade"?

you, uh, you do realize that at some point, Shade is going to have to be ... thrown ... at .... someone ....


OpenID vfmshadow0342 January 16, 2018 1:07 AM  

I came to the discussion expecting VD to collect a head, but instead heard him winning an ally; definitely Prov. 25:15 in action.

The chat stream was choked with trolls, however.

Anonymous E Deploribus Unum January 16, 2018 1:10 AM  

i am convinced there is a HUGE comic market out there that just walked away.

Absolutely. I have spent tens of thousands of dollars on them, and had quit entirely as of three years ago. Vox's project is the first thing that has really interested me since the Bendis/Maleev Daredevil series (pre-convergence Bendis).

Blogger Nate January 16, 2018 1:14 AM  

i have a stack of old classic comics worth God Knows What... but I haven't even shown my kids. because I know there is nothing down that path. its empty. so I tell them stories about how comics were... and that's all.

I wish like hell we could see some of that... all new... together.

Anonymous E Deploribus Unum January 16, 2018 1:26 AM  

My own kids spent all their money on manga as teenagers. As a comic collector for decades, it broke my heart. But truly, when I look at it, I see their point. Hopefully we can see new Western comics that have that same level of appeal one day.

Blogger roughcoat January 16, 2018 1:41 AM  

An article posted just before the livestream:

Saving Comics with Vox Day & Ethan Van Sciver?, by J. Ishiro Finney

Blogger Nate January 16, 2018 1:42 AM  

remember the Iron Man trope.. the new suit? nothing was more powerful in Marvel than Iron Man's new suit. He'd spend a whole issue fretting over the new tech. It was to powerful! he couldn't unleash it on the world.

but then in the end... he would... and he would just destroy everything.

It was awesome.

Anonymous Looking Glass January 16, 2018 1:44 AM  

The Comic Model sort of died around 1970, but the new model appeared around 1985, which is going to be a bulk of the youth for most Gen X being missed. Everything starts to change after The Dark Knight Rises and the explosion of the XTREME! era of the 90s, however that would be the late Gen X and early Millennials that drove that wave.

So there's a gap of anyone that was a young child between 1970 and 1985 that is going to have missed Comics being a larger part of pop-culture. That group also will have children of various ages, generally, at this point. So that's a market right there.

The rub in all of this is I'm not sure a monthly comics model is practical, in the way there's 4-6 Batman books every month, all year. You need characters you can tell nearly infinite stories with to pull that off. (This points to where Chuck wants to go with Avalon. A City does allow for infinite story possibilities.) I suspect the most practical model will be defined runs with marketing associated with the Beginning. It makes runs a little more special if everything is a "limited" series. I could very easily be wrong, but that's the book publishing model and it's survived a lot longer than comic book publishing has.

Blogger Mint January 16, 2018 1:59 AM  

Politic is downstream of culture- Andrew Breitbart

Every piece of entertainment produced is conveying something. A message, a story.

My parents and their generation lectured on how evil entertainment business and no correct/proper/religious person should earn their living from it. We (my countrymen) are losing culture war because now all the entertainment people consume are garbage.

In Indonesia, I remember reading the popular comic of local hero vs the bad evil Dutch colonial. It was patriotic. It's also entertaining. Message stories in entertaining package. It can be done.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 16, 2018 2:39 AM  

So there's a gap of anyone that was a young child between 1970 and 1985 that is going to have missed Comics being a larger part of pop-culture.

Yeah, that tags me. I graduated HS in 1984 and have pretty limited interest in comics. I'm not even sure if my kids know the movies are based on comic books or not. As far as I know, they've never even read a Marvel or DC comic book. None of their friends talk about comic books. Movies, sure. Characters a little (but they're more about the movies and the action than the characters, none of them give a rats rear end about the characters really).

No pre-conceptions. They're open to anything if it's interesting.



Anonymous Brick Hardslab January 16, 2018 2:39 AM  

I loved Scout and Winterworld. They were just what I wanted to read. Simonson's Thor, Grell's Sable and Shamans Tears, and Barons Badger were everything comics should be.

I collected and still remember the first superhero comic I spent my own money on a story with the Inhumans for a dime. I quit when the stories seemed disconnected. I thought I'd grown out of comics but maybe they abandon us.

This is what I asked vox to do when he first announced CH. He said he couldn't then for a couple reasons. I'm glad things have lined up enough to succeed.

Blogger bob kek mando January 16, 2018 2:46 AM  

57. Nate January 15, 2018 11:13 PM
Great comic authors... Walt Simonson. Trust me. or google. your call.



Simonson's run on Thor is legendary, though more typical of comic book story lines. this is where Frog Thor and Beta Ray Bill come from.

Conan the King was actually really good.

Garth Ennis does transgressive humor, loves to piss on the US and Christians. but, given that, is decent. his runs on Preacher ( Jesus survived the Cross and had children with Magdalene, which bloodline survives to this day ... but is so grotesquely inbred that they're all drooling retards ) and Punisher were well received.

Warren Ellis / any of a dozen different titles.

Dave Sim / Cerebus

Alan Moore / Watchmen and Swamp Thing + lots of stuff that uses Kabalah and witchcraft if you want to know what the Left Hand is doing. it's not unusual for his stuff to get turned into movies ... against his will. League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is his, as is From Hell.

Frank Miller / Dark Knight Returns is where the BvS concept comes from, also his run on Daredevil. the Sin City movie basically used his comic for all of the layouts and scene composition. he also did the 300 comic that the movie was based on.

Chris Claremont is a giant of the industry simply due to his influence through the X-Men books. Claremont ran pretty much that whole family of X-titles for almost 20 years. his conceptualization of the super hero genre is indelibly stamped on the comic book scene.

Keith Giffen does really good funny stuff.



61. Nate January 15, 2018 11:45 PM
also.. i said authors.. i meant artists. I'm tard.



eh? you didn't care for Walt's writing? you know he did double duty on that Thor run, right?

John Byrne is another dual threat. primarily an artist but has written many titles in his time.

Blogger SteelPalm January 16, 2018 2:59 AM  

Good interview. Van Sciver came across exactly as I expected; nice guy, knows the comics industry well, but really out to lunch with what is going on in larger culture.

His belief in the power and influence of moderates is as anti-historical as anything I've heard from a SJW. Still, I definitely hope he comes around even more and works on an Arkhaven project at some point.

@88 bob kek mando

Garth Ennis does transgressive humor, loves to piss on the US and Christians. but, given that, is decent. his runs on Preacher ( Jesus survived the Cross and had children with Magdalene, which bloodline survives to this day ... but is so grotesquely inbred that they're all drooling retards ) and Punisher were well received.

I've only read "The Boys", but felt similarly; hated the occasional bullshit leftist posturing about the evils of patriotism, nationalism, and the "military-industrial complex", but damn if that ugly little Irish fuck can't write an action-packed, funny, engaging story. It suffers from a certain nihlism, but is still one of the better American comics I've read.

In that series, it helped that he was satirizing superheros, and I always find parodies/deconstructions of the genre more entertaining ("Super" with Rainn Wilson was also very good) than the conventional approach.

Anonymous Matvei Daniilovich January 16, 2018 3:10 AM  

@74 Nexus was the greatest comic of the 80s hands down.

Blogger Mint January 16, 2018 3:14 AM  

Garth Ennis does transgressive humor, loves to piss on the US and Christians. but, given that, is decent. his runs on Preacher ( Jesus survived the Cross and had children with Magdalene, which bloodline survives to this day ... but is so grotesquely inbred that they're all drooling retards ) and Punisher were well received.

From that description.. I had to google it. And yes curiosity killed the cat.

Blogger bob kek mando January 16, 2018 3:32 AM  

you can't say i didn't warn you. 'Hitman' has the likes of Dogwelder and Bueno Excellente ... both almost surely worse than you can imagine. Ennis is definitely not for the faint of heart. although the zombie zoo was pretty funny.

they've actually turned 'Preacher' into a television miniseries here in the States. i saw one episode and wasn't very impressed. the ArsTechFags seem to like it though.

https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1390387

Blogger tublecane January 16, 2018 3:58 AM  

@85-"My parents and their generation lectured on how evil entertainment business and no correct/proper/religious person should earn their living from it. We (my countrymen) are losing culture war because all entertainment are garbage"

That's how it is in this country, too. Though most people don't go so far as forbidding entry into it. They know it's garbage, but a lot of them stay mired in it anyway. And a lot of people in the industry were asleep at the switch or too weak to oppose the dismal tide when it went on its Long March through the institutions.

I've long wondered whether the best way to fight back would be to have our own Long March or give the institutions up for rotten and start our own alternative ones.

Some institutions we're going to have to storm, however. Universities and the Permanent Government aren't going to give up. Bearing them shall require violence or the threat thereof. But entertainment, that's fragile. They could die tomorrow.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 16, 2018 4:24 AM  

I've long wondered whether the best way to fight back would be to have our own Long March or give the institutions up for rotten and start our own alternative ones.

The challenge is, theater has always been a degenerate institution. There is something inherent in wanting to get up in front of people and garner attention by pretending to be someone else that attracts the depraved.

It doesn't have to be as bad as it is today, but I'm not sure it can ever be really decent.

Anonymous Pug January 16, 2018 4:28 AM  

I am at the hour mark of the interview, and by the dynamic of the conversation,it seems pretty certain that the guy will come work for Arkhaven eventually. Success of Arkhaven will be persuasive for many like him, just as Vox said. Moderates are like women in that regard, they follow the strong.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener January 16, 2018 5:00 AM  

@95 The universities are propped up by government backed student loans. Change the laws to allow student loans to be discharged in bankruptcy and get the government out of the debt collection business, and student loan issuance will evaporate overnight. Private lenders don't like to lend to borrowers with no collateral for negligible returns. That in turn will put downward pressure on college tuition costs as enrollment nosedives.

Breaking the influence of the universities will be easy.

Blogger SteelPalm January 16, 2018 5:12 AM  

@96 The challenge is, theater has always been a degenerate institution. There is something inherent in wanting to get up in front of people and garner attention by pretending to be someone else that attracts the depraved.

That doesn't have to be the case any more than it has to be for music, acting, painting, etc.

For instance, what aspect of Russian theater would you say is "degenerate"? Between the performances of classic works by Chekhov, Tolstoy, Pushkin, Lermontov, etc., things like the Stanislavski method, etc?

While certainly bawdy, the theater of Shakespeare's world doesn't sound too awful, either.

Anonymous E Deploribus Unum January 16, 2018 5:48 AM  

Nexus was the greatest comic of the 80s hands down.

Rude's art was gorgeous and unique in its day, and Baron's off-kilter scripts were always interesting. I was also fond of Grimjack and Badger, not to mention Zot and (occasionally) Matt Wagner's stuff. That was the first time there were enough consistently good comics to lure me away from Marvel and DC.

Anonymous Man of the Atom January 16, 2018 6:23 AM  

Matvei Daniilovich wrote:@74 Nexus was the greatest comic of the 80s hands down.

Klactovedesteen, baby!

Anonymous Avalanche January 16, 2018 8:52 AM  

@30 "American Gods relied too much on childish shock."

I found American Gods to end up just being a slog. I made myself finish -- HOPING it would surprise me with a great twist or something ... but it kinda just dribbled off and I was just glad it was over. (Really thought better of Gaiman from his Doctor Who script(s?) and everyone's reaction to him around that... Fame, not necessarily backed up by production?)

Blogger James Dixon January 16, 2018 9:12 AM  

> ... Walt Simonson

"Star Slammers" was an excellent graphic novel, just to give one example.

> i am convinced there is a HUGE comic market out there that just walked away.

Well, we've had half a dozen commenters just on these threads say they've done so.

> The universities are propped up by government backed student loans.

That and government funding of research.

Blogger Nate January 16, 2018 10:16 AM  

'eh? you didn't care for Walt's writing? you know he did double duty on that Thor run, right?'

no. i did not know that.

Anonymous Deplorable me January 16, 2018 10:43 AM  

Good interview last night with EVS. Perhaps the best part was his incomprehension that someone who knows *nothing* about comics could possibly succeed in the industry.

Diamond is a chokepoint for retailers who don't think outside the box. I used to work for an LCS where the owner had his own accounts with a number of small presses (i.e., Fantagraphics) and ordered direct. The smart retailers won't think twice about opening accounts with new small publishers, especially if existing customers are asking for that product.

Regarding the Arkhaven line, the announcement about Wodehouse made me think about Classics Illustrated (https://infogalactic.com/info/Classics_Illustrated). Any interest in doing a Western Classics line somewhere down the road?

Blogger exfarmkid January 16, 2018 11:00 AM  

Vox, I listened to the podcast this morning. Fabulous.

Blogger James Dixon January 16, 2018 11:19 AM  

> The smart retailers won't think twice about opening accounts with new small publishers, especially if existing customers are asking for that product.

In my experience, very few comics dealers have ever been comics only. Most of them have always carried games, magazines, etc. They know other distribution channels exist and they won't be adverse to using them.

Blogger Markku January 16, 2018 11:45 AM  

Especially when in this case it is not just a small publisher, it is a generic distributor that has only just purchased the necessary equipment to get in the comics business, and we are one of their showcase products. At the cost of spending a few minutes creating credentials on a web service you not only get our comics, you get lots and lots of comics. We'll just be the spearhead to get the owner to take the initial step.

Blogger Markku January 16, 2018 11:50 AM  

That's why we'll be able to soon do things at a price that will leave everyone gape-jawed. Because we have a mutually beneficial arrangement.

Blogger Markku January 16, 2018 11:53 AM  

And when the small comics publishers (read: anyone who is not Marvel or DC) see us doing it, they'll want a piece of the action.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 16, 2018 12:26 PM  

While certainly bawdy, the theater of Shakespeare's world doesn't sound too awful, either.

I don't say things I can't back up

"THE theatre as a public amusement was an innovation in the social life of the Elizabethans, and it immediately took the general fancy. Like that of Greece or Spain, it developed with amazing rapidity. London's first theater was built when Shakespeare was about twelve years old; and the whole system of the Elizabethan theatrical world came into being during his lifetime...

...In the meantime, respectable people and officers of the Church frequently made complaint of the growing number of play-actors and shows. They said that the plays were often lewd and profane, that play-actors were mostly vagrant, irresponsible, and immoral people...

..The stigma of dishonor rested, however, upon the whole profession, playwrights, players, and on the theater itself...Playwrights and actors belonged to a bohemian, half-lawless class. The gallants who frequented the play led fast lives, and were constantly charged with the corruption of innocence.

Anonymous franklinjennings January 16, 2018 12:41 PM  

@78. I'm 40, haven't bought a comic in 20 yrs. But I would in a heartbeat if they were good again, and priced appropriately. My dad collected them his whole life. They were great entertainment.

Then again, maybe it's just us Alabama boys. But I highly doubt it. RTR!

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 16, 2018 12:42 PM  

James Dixon wrote:In my experience, very few comics dealers have ever been comics only. Most of them have always carried games, magazines, etc. They know other distribution channels exist and they won't be adverse to using them.
If they carry books outside of the Manga and Comics, they already almost certainly have an account with Markku's partner, if it is who I think it is. I used to be part-owner in a small bookstore and we had an account.

Blogger Markku January 16, 2018 12:44 PM  

It probably is. They've been in the business before, but not with as cheap a page cost as they can now.

Blogger James Dixon January 16, 2018 1:10 PM  

> And when the small comics publishers (read: anyone who is not Marvel or DC) see us doing it, they'll want a piece of the action.

I thought that was a given.

> If they carry books outside of the Manga and Comics, they already almost certainly have an account with Markku's partner,

Probably, though you're guess as to who it is is probably better than mine.

Blogger William Meisheid January 16, 2018 1:37 PM  

Markku wrote:Visions are a dime a dozen. MAPS to visions are not.
That thought made my day. I work with extremely intelligent system engineers and in many ways that discipline can be thought of as map building, creating a comprehensive overview of the project landscape.

Thank you for that insight.

Blogger William Meisheid January 16, 2018 1:50 PM  

Markku wrote:Visions are a dime a dozen. MAPS to visions are not.
That comment made my day. I work with a group of highly intelligent system engineers and that disciple could be thought of as map building where you lay out a comprehensive view of a project along with all of its connections and risks.

Thank you.

Blogger Were-Puppy January 16, 2018 2:04 PM  

@58 Nate
Vox:

Great comic authors... Walt Simonson. Trust me. or google. your call.
---

This.

I got trades of his Thor run around here somewhere. Whenever I want to read a comic, I go to these older ones such as this.

Blogger Raben Wulf January 16, 2018 6:13 PM  

I can't help but question Ethan's intelligence after watching the "interview" and follow up video. The problem is, he projects just as much as the SJW does, especially where his biases are concerned.

He keeps claiming Vox is going after a "phantom audience". This is a phrase he is injecting into the equation, trying to make it seem like Vox is only going after imaginary readers. He is doing what Marvel and many comic publishers have done... and that is to forget the full spectrum of comic book readers. He is erasing the very fact that many people grew up with comics and have become alienated by their current form, its almost as if he thinks they do not exist.

Who gets to decide who the "audience" is anyhow? Ethan is too stuck on his own narrow view of what constitutes a comic book reader, and that is his fatal flaw. It makes him no better in that regard, than the SJWs infested soulless comics we have today.

I'd go as far to say there is some parallel here between modernist and classic architecture, in so much that he claims you can only do things the modernist way and that's how it has to be, where as many of us look fondly at the craft and mindset that resulted in classical architecture. There is a bit of Fountainhead in this back and forth.

Blogger kevmalone January 16, 2018 8:58 PM  

Vox done good. Always a pleasure to hear him speak.
As for Gaiman - Sandman - Brilliant. American Gods - derivative and frankly awful. I hadn't noted the similarity with Long Dark Teatime but once seen... I guess.

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts