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Friday, February 09, 2018

A Churchian Response, part II

This is the second part of my critique of the Churchian response to the 16 Points of the Alt-Right. The first part, covering Points 1-4, is here.
5. I reject nationalism on principle. The ontology of a thing is its necessary attribute. The unnecessary attributes are accidental. When I consider the ontology of a human being, his or her ethnicity, nationality, race, skin tone, language, age, and body shape are all accidental attributes. This means I am still the person who God created me to be whether or not I was born of any other racial background, in any other environment, at any other time in history. I will always be me. If “we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights” has any meaning, then the ontology of human beings runs contrary to nationalism. This does not mean I do not love the United State of America. No. I believe in what the United States claimed itself to be at the moment it established itself. Being anti-nationalist does not mean I am unpatriotic. Again, I say, “no.” I volunteered to serve this nation and I gave a portion of my time for that purpose. I love the United States and believe this nation is a bastion of freedom. I do not believe we are superior by our existence.
As I pointed out, this gentleman is hopelessly incoherent. He professes to love the United States and believes it is "a bastion of freedom" but rejects nationalism on principle, does not believe it is superior, and believes its attributes are accidental. This is not possible. If you are anti-nationalist, then you are by definition anti-patriotic and anti-American. Worse than that, you are a globalist, a servant of Babel, and an enemy of the God who created the nations.
6. Well, I am dedicated to the proposition to carry the Gospel to all nations and people groups. My objective is 100% globalist. I want to spread Christianity to every nation on earth. As it if even matters after that; I also want to spread liberty to every nation and people group. I also want to help build sustainable economies, educational facilities, and hospitals in every nation with access to every people group. I want to universally outlaw elective abortion, elective euthanasia, slavery, human trafficking, prostitution, illicit drugs, rape, incest, genital mutilation, and caste systems. Knowing I will not succeed, I want to end starvation, disease epidemics, and poverty. On these issues, the Alt Right will call me a globalist. I will respond by saying they are acting like foolish isolationists who are out of sync with moral duty. “Then Jesus came to them and said, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.’” (Matthew 28:18-20)

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (Matthew 25:31-46)
The Bible says to "go and make disciples of all nations." It does not say to "eradicate all nations, eliminate all borders, and convert the world into a one-world government, so there will be no escape from the rule of the most ruthless and evil people in the world." Since this guy likes quoting verses, I have three for him.

Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
- 1 Timothy 5:8

But Jesus replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” “Yes, Lord,” she said, “even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”
- Mark 7:26-27

And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation.
- Acts 17:26

In any event, any Churchian who openly endorses globalism, free trade, and open immigration is clearly not in service to Jesus Christ, but rather, to the Prince of This World. This is hardly a secret; the globalist elite openly flaunts their true allegiances. Remember, by their fruits you will know them.
7. This is another example of the Alt Right expressing ignorance. “Anti-equalitarian” is not a word. Instead they mean anti-egalitarian. They are so woefully ignorant about the concepts they do not even know the nomenclature of the discussion. For the record, I am a complementarian with regard to the roles of men and women in relationship and limited some career roles. I believe women should never witness combat because God did not design the female body for such rigor. I believe a woman should not be the pastor of a church. I believe men cannot be mothers and women cannot be fathers. Beyond those limitations, and in spite of the innate differences in how men and women think, we are and should be equals in all socio-economic political roles. I am very much an egalitarian in those realms. All human beings are equal in terms of worth. “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Galatians 3:28) “So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.” (Genesis 1:27) If God created us all in His image, we all share the same worth and rights of human beings. I absolutely reject the Alt Right’s statement.
Yeah, so about that "expressing ignorance". This moron is more than 200 years behind the language. Anti-equalitarian is most certainly a word. From THE AMERICAN HERITAGE® DICTIONARY OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE, FIFTH EDITION by the Editors of the American Heritage Dictionaries.

EQUALITARIAN
Adjective
Characterized by social equality and equal rights for all people.

Noun
A person who accepts or promotes the view of equalitarianism.

Origin
Coined around 1800 from equality +‎ -arian.

All human beings are not equal in terms of worth, not even by his own cited Bible verses. If there is neither Jew nor Greek in Christ Jesus, then are those human beings equal to those who are not in Christ Jesus? If this cretin was capable of following his own logic, he would soon reach the conclusion that no one is damned, God loves everyone, and there was no need for Jesus Christ to die on the cross.
8. The Alt Right is so scientifically illiterate they have to make up words to attempt to sound like they know what they are saying. The least scientific stance one can have is to “presumptively accept” something. Science is not a practice of democracy but of evidence. If all the scientists agreed that water boils at 75º Celsius, it would not change the boiling temperature form 100º Celsius. 90% of scientist believing in anthropocentric climate change does not make it so. Science is a process of observation, making hypotheses, testing, observing, and drawing conclusions. Nothing in the scientific process is based on democracy. The Alt Right is baselessly accusing scientists of corruption. I may not agree with the conclusion of every scientist; however, I am not accusing them of corruption when they interpret data differently than I assume I would. I reject the Alt Right’s fabricated language and blanket accusation.
Baselessly accusing scientists of corruption? "More than 70% of researchers have tried and failed to reproduce another scientist's experiments, and more than half have failed to reproduce their own experiments" according to a survey of 1,500 scientists by Nature. There is nothing baseless about what 90 percent of scientists themselves consider to be a "reproducibility crisis" nor are concerns about the corruption of scientistry limited to the Alt-Right.

And science is considerably more than just "a process of observation, making hypotheses, testing, observing, and drawing conclusions." That is precisely why neologisms such as scientody: the method of science, scientistry: the profession of science, and scientage: the knowledge base of science are required. The clarity of thought and communication that such neologisms require tend to enhance one's understanding of science, it is the precise opposite of scientific illiteracy.

Part III of IV will be posted tomorrow.

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67 Comments:

Blogger tublecane February 09, 2018 6:33 AM  

He rejects nationalism on principle. That principle being...um, he only believes in the necessary attributes of things? And the nation into which you're born, if you're born into one, can only ever be an accident.

What isn't accidental, I wonder. Going by what he says, I guess nothing, except for being human. But why go that far? God created him in the territory he did, with the sex, skin tone, intelligence, etc. which he possesses. If such attributes are mutable without violating your essential being, couldn't he just as easily be a toad?

Heck, if we're talking about the "ontology of a thing," how about a rock? Rocks exist. They're beings. God could've made you a rock.

What's with your anti-inanimate object chauvinism, guy?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 09, 2018 6:47 AM  

I just can't. There's not even any new refutational territory to explore when it's all an intellectual bog of quicksand admixed from the intellectual equivalents of type one and two excrement.

Blogger tublecane February 09, 2018 6:48 AM  

"If 'we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with inalienable rights' has any meaning, then the ontology of human beings runs contrary to nationalism"

If all men being created equal has any meaning,* then then the ontology of human beings runs counter to family.

That's the same line of reason, and I mean the *exact* same. That's how stupid it is.

Of course, we're all familiar with people who argue against the institution of the family along similar lines, minus the appeal to a Creator.

*It doesn't have much meaning, frankly, except as political persuasion, with at best a hint at an underlying philosophy.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 09, 2018 6:56 AM  

"minus the appeal to a Creator"

"It takes a village... erm, I mean I know that villages don't exist anymore, so, like, a city. Well, I guess a country... but there's not enough diversity. Screw it, it takes a globe to raise a child."

Hint: When people come to forcibly take children away from their parents, the only proper response is to ensure sure that they posthaste return home in exemplary pieces.

Anonymous Anonymous February 09, 2018 7:06 AM  

This just goes to show that while Christianity will save your soul, it does not cure ignorance.

In truth, when I speak to Christians about the Alt-Right or American Nationalism, I often must deal with some variation of these arguments.

Sadly, I must admit that Evangelical Protestants are generally easier to disabuse of these errors than are my fellow Catholics.

Blogger Solaire Of Astora February 09, 2018 7:14 AM  

I think this guy is running the Chewbacca defense of globalism.

Blogger Rabbi B February 09, 2018 7:16 AM  

Vox, you have the patience of Job.

Blogger Koanic February 09, 2018 7:21 AM  

It is not so much a refutation as an Inquisition.

Let his body be hanged until sundown.

Blogger Nate February 09, 2018 7:24 AM  

I'm just not going to take any rebuttal to the 16 points seriously if they don't at least put for the honest effort to discover what the unfamiliar terms mean.

Blogger VD February 09, 2018 7:26 AM  

Vox, you have the patience of Job.

Not really. You forget that I have been dealing with this sort of cross-chasm communication for my entire life. Why do you think MPAI is my mantra? It's not the statement of contempt everyone thinks it is.

Blogger wreckage February 09, 2018 7:39 AM  

@3: it was a fancy way of saying "we reject hereditary nobility". The idea that humans had rights endowed upon them by God was already established in English custom, so smooshing it into a broader statement was a culturally persuasive way of rejecting Britain as a morally legitimate authority.

So really, it was a fancy way of saying "piss off, limey!"

Blogger Lazarus February 09, 2018 7:52 AM  

@11

"…the idea of hereditary legislators is as inconsistent as that of hereditary judges, or hereditary juries; and as absurd as an hereditary mathematician, or an hereditary wise man; and as ridiculous as an hereditary poet laureate."

Thomas Paine, The Rights of man (1792)

Blogger Jo B February 09, 2018 7:58 AM  

Dear community,

I am wretched human, a collapsed and pathetic form lying at the feet of God, and I have lived a selfish and terrible life. I have refused to see His majesty, and in my arrogance and pride I have tried to control the direction of my life. I have failed to see the path that God has set for me. Instead, sin has curled seductively about my life, and I now pray for forgiveness, and I now pray my thanks for what I have and for the chance to sense and accept the glory and majesty of God.

I now pray. Dear Lord who art in Heaven, hallowed by Thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven. Dear Lord, forgive me my sins, wash me clean, enter my life, and please forgive me for not investing my talents. I thank you for your blessings, and I ask that you be with me and if it be your will, to help me with these burdens that strain my being.

I repent in ash and dust.

In my pride, I have never asked others for prayers. Now, I let go. I release my false control of life and accept Christ as my savior and I say to others, if you find yourself with an extra prayer late at night, and it occurs to you that your voice is heard and indeed powerful, and further, if you believe that a worthless and wretched and crumpled soul can be saved, please think of me and speak that prayer.

I repent in ash and dust.

Anonymous Anonymous February 09, 2018 8:21 AM  

"all men are created equal"

Thank God that's not the case. I'd hate to be equal to the vast majority of the brain dead masses.
Why give up my privilege? Peasants are peasants FOR A REASON.

Anonymous Anonymous February 09, 2018 8:25 AM  

The ontology of a thing is what is essential not accidental. And what is essential to a blog page is the page itself. The words are different on every blog page and so no more than an accident. Stripping away these accidents we see that the post: 'What the alt-right is", is essentially just a blank page. Ontologically there are no points, and the alt-right has no principles.

"Tabula rasa non est lex" is a phrase I learned in college and it means 'a blank slate is no law'. As a deontologist I can only accept rule based systems that provide laws to govern my ethics. And so I reject as evil the horrible alt-right and its none deontological system. It is the only option for us sound ontological deontologists who adhere to ontology and deontology.

But it gets even worse. For as Aristotle said: 'nature abhors a vacuum', which led my college tutor to point out: "If nature abhors a vacuum then it is natural you should to, so when you see one fill it with whatever crap you find handy." And so, seeing the essentially blank page of the alt-right I will do as all educated men must and fill it with ideas of my own choosing. Aquinas described his work as being 'like straw' and so in Christian charity, so as to be fair, I'll fill the alt-right's blank page with similar material. And as every man, even an alt-right man, is made in God's image I will make that material into man's image so it can be as the image of God.

And looking at the straw-man my education forces me to insert into the essentially blank page: 'what the alt-right is', I must conclude that they are wrong, evil, and not good Christians, unlike me. If this is not clear then just remember: "Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and our soul shall live", from Isaish 55:3, which clearly refutes the straw man I see before me. But perhaps the best riposte to the alt-right is George Washington Carver's: "If you love it enough,anything will talk to you".

If only the alt-right was not so ignorant and stupid they would know the philosophical moves that I made above the history referenced, but through ignorance they have made themselves foolish and it is our duty to reject them as illogical and evil.

---
SAK

Anonymous Anonymous February 09, 2018 8:42 AM  

"words are different on every blog page and so no more than an accident"

That misses the point by miles. The words are there, and have meaning.

"a blank slate is no law" "reject as evil the horrible alt-right "

One bit of nonsense follows another. How is alt-right evil? That's is an accusation with no support.

And he continues on piling one bit of nonsense on top of another.

Blogger Koanic February 09, 2018 8:53 AM  

If your prayer begins with "I", you're doing it wrong.

If it's shouted on a street corner...

Blogger Robert Divinity February 09, 2018 8:59 AM  

I will always be me.

Truth.



I want to universally outlaw elective abortion, elective euthanasia, slavery, human trafficking, prostitution, illicit drugs, rape, incest, genital mutilation, and caste systems.

Odd how he supports their importation into the United States.

It this were a troll it would be epic.

Blogger Koanic February 09, 2018 9:02 AM  

I can't read a single line this guy writes without seeing his profile pic. In light of which everything he says makes perfect sense, disturbingly.

Anonymous Anonymous February 09, 2018 9:07 AM  

@widlast, you did't see what I did there.

"One bit of nonsense follows another", could that be by design?

---
SAK

Blogger Jo B February 09, 2018 9:12 AM  

Koanic wrote: "If your prayer begins with "I", you're doing it wrong.

If it's shouted on a street corner..."

Is this in response to my post? If so, can you articulate why? These kind of assertions are painfully annoying. The smug judgement and lecture on how to pray. If you know something I don't, please teach. If you just enjoy pontificating and making assertions, then please ignore my response.

Note: if my posted public prayer was inappropriate then I ask that Vox or a moderator here please delete it. Thank you.

Blogger Blume February 09, 2018 9:14 AM  

Sak that was oddly beautiful. Good job man.

Anonymous Anonymous February 09, 2018 9:22 AM  

@Blume, thank you good sir, you are most kind.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 09, 2018 9:29 AM  

Did I just witness a prime example of tautology?

Anonymous Anonymous February 09, 2018 9:38 AM  

@20 Nope, sorry Sak, that went right over my head. I thought it was "serious".

I see so much nuttiness on the net these days I'm having a tough time sorting out the crazy, commentary, and sarcasm.

Blogger Koanic February 09, 2018 9:41 AM  

> The smug judgement and lecture on how to pray

Well, since you asked nicely.

Anonymous Anonymous February 09, 2018 9:45 AM  

@widlast, no problem. I figured you were a decent chap and so was already giving you the benefit of a poe's law sized doubt anyway.

Blogger tz February 09, 2018 10:02 AM  

Does being an Equalit-Aryan mean you think all Aryans are equal? I'm not an Eagle-itarian either although it is a national symbol.

Blogger Matt Burkholder February 09, 2018 10:13 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Matt Burkholder February 09, 2018 10:16 AM  

<Jo B wrote:Is this in response to my post? If so, can you articulate why? These kind of assertions are painfully annoying. The smug judgement and lecture on how to pray. If you know something I don't, please teach. If you just enjoy pontificating and making assertions, then please ignore my response.


I don't know how long you have been reading this blog. As for me, I've been reading it daily for several years now; this will be the second (or possibly third?) time I've posted anything.

In any event, I'd offer this for consideration--If we all sat down and took an IQ test I'm quite certain the majority of the regular posters would score far, far higher than I would. I believe I'm what they refer here to as a 'mid-wit'. This doesn't bother me overmuch; wisdom and quality of life are not dependent on your intelligence level, and that is why Hawking, Einstein, et al are not demonstrably happier or wiser than my grandmother was.

That said, I've learned a ton by reading the conversation of those much smarter than myself. It's been a real treat, for the most part, and I have frequently recommended this blog to those of my friends whom I feel would also find it interesting/ beneficial.

THAT said, I would go on to say this--there are a number of regular posters here who are best avoided, by which I mean I skip over their comments entirely because I know what to expect from them.

Their attitude(s) belies all their earnest debates about religion and morality which they seem to thrive upon. They are as sounding brass and tinkling cymbals, using their obvious sense of superiority as a weapon to crush anyone who dares to disagree with their lofty and inviolable insights and smug pronouncements from On High. As a matter of fact, any dismissal of any argument that includes words like 'mid-wit' should be given all the consideration which it deserves.

I leave it to your judgment which of these posters fit this bill, as I am not posting this in order to tell you what will be of value to YOU. The majority of the conversation here is educational and challenging; it's an easy matter to filter out the fools who are so thoroughly convinced they are wise.

“Begin each day by telling yourself: Today I shall be meeting with interference, ingratitude, insolence, disloyalty, ill-will, and selfishness – all of them due to the offenders’ ignorance of what is good or evil. But for my part I have long perceived the nature of good and its nobility, the nature of evil and its meanness, and also the nature of the culprit himself, who is my brother (not in the physical sense, but as a fellow creature similarly endowed with reason and a share of the divine); therefore none of those things can injure me, for nobody can implicate me in what is degrading. Neither can I be angry with my brother or fall foul of him; for he and I were born to work together, like a man’s two hands, feet or eyelids, or the upper and lower rows of his teeth. To obstruct each other is against Nature’s law – and what is irritation or aversion but a form of obstruction.” --Marcus Arelius

Happy trails!

Blogger Mad Dyeda Jørgen February 09, 2018 10:29 AM  

I see that the "rebuttals" are descending into rank emotionalism and virtue signalling. By the time xhe gets to Point 15, xhe is literally shaking and xer spittle is flying. Looking forward to your take on that one.

Blogger Sterling Pilgrim February 09, 2018 10:55 AM  

I'll say one for you, pride is devastating and often hard to recognize.

Blogger August February 09, 2018 10:58 AM  

"This means I am still the person who God created me to be whether or not I was born of any other racial background, in any other environment, at any other time in history. I will always be me."

This is heresy. I forget what the term is, but God creates us whole. Body, mind, soul, spirit- these may be useful terms, but it is false to assume you can delete one and still assume you are you.

Anonymous Anonymous February 09, 2018 11:10 AM  

His science example is particularly bad. If all scientists agreed on the boiling point of water being 75 C, that would literally become true. The degrees are arbitrary and accepted by convention. It would change the scale, the size of the degrees, but the boiling point of water would 'become' 75 C. That kind of ignorance on his part makes a giant credibility black hole that sucks in the rest of his arguments. He thinks he knows science... hooray.

Blogger The Smoking Man #3424 February 09, 2018 11:19 AM  

The quality of the comments section has increased a thousand fold.

I am very much enjoying how the 16 points are wreaking havoc among the faithless.

Blogger Koanic February 09, 2018 11:27 AM  

Verbose passive aggressive midwit (VPAM) #1 reassures VPAM #2 that Koanic's a jerk.

I collect the pair by observing that the Lord's Prayer uses "our" "us" and "we", not "I" "my" and "me".

How the West could've fallen with such holy humble midwits policing its discourse is beyond me. Surely the solution is more of the same.

Blogger Were-Puppy February 09, 2018 11:33 AM  

@13 Jo B

In my pride, I have never asked others for prayers. Now, I let go. I release my false control of life and accept Christ as my savior and I say to others, if you find yourself with an extra prayer late at night, and it occurs to you that your voice is heard and indeed powerful, and further, if you believe that a worthless and wretched and crumpled soul can be saved, please think of me and speak that prayer.
--

Done.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener February 09, 2018 12:06 PM  

I also want to spread liberty to every nation and people group. I also want to help build sustainable economies, educational facilities, and hospitals in every nation with access to every people group. I want to universally outlaw elective abortion, elective euthanasia, slavery, human trafficking, prostitution, illicit drugs, rape, incest, genital mutilation, and caste systems. Knowing I will not succeed, I want to end starvation, disease epidemics, and poverty.

Another lie. If this were true, he would be out doing these things instead of complaining on the internet about how mean and racist the Alt Right is.

He's just another neocuck chickenhawk who wants to remain in the comfort of his gated community while he sends brave young men on the impossible task of cleaning up the shithole countries.

Blogger Patrick Kelly February 09, 2018 12:07 PM  

Jo B wrote:......

Is this in response to my post?


FWIW: I took your plea at face value and offered what meager prayers I may have for you.

I've seen other requests received gladly here so I don't think it was inappropriate.

A bit long winded, but your plea sure seems genuine and earnest. I really do "feel your pain" in this case.

Blogger DAMN SON February 09, 2018 12:15 PM  

comic hound got a hypeman and it's hilarious

http://nightwind777.blogspot.com/2018/02/cultish-vox-day-attacks-christians.html

cultish I say, cultish!

Blogger VD February 09, 2018 12:18 PM  

Verbose passive aggressive midwit (VPAM) #1 reassures VPAM #2 that Koanic's a jerk.

Koanic, if you're going to be a pedantic jerk, then you really shouldn't take exception to people telling you that you are a pedantic jerk.

Look, it is apparent that you enjoy correcting people. So be it. We all get our kicks in different ways. But don't be surprised that people don't like it and don't necessarily think well of you for it. Remember, no one likes the police and no one goes out of their way to seek their opinion.

Blogger lowercaseb February 09, 2018 12:43 PM  

Were-Puppy wrote:@13 Jo B
Done.


Agreed. All I ask Jo B...is that you do the same for us.

We are all sinners. We can all be better with help from the Lord if we accept his word.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 09, 2018 1:11 PM  

Verbose passive aggressive midwit (VPAM) #1 reassures VPAM #2 that Koanic's a jerk.

To be fair, you are.
To be even more fair, there is a form of competitive abasement Christians sometimes get into, that is nothing more than the Pharisee dirtying his face and mussing his hair so that all will know he is fasting. It's one of the nastier expressions of pride.

Blogger peppermint88 February 09, 2018 1:15 PM  

The response is I, I, I, as if "I disagree" is a rebuttal to an idea, and despite the self-centeredness the guy counsels surrender and slavery

Blogger Revelation Means Hope February 09, 2018 1:17 PM  

The incoherence of his arguments tells me that we have a mid-wit writing this, trying to play with the big dogs, and lacking the self-humility to understand at a deep enough level that ALL the important points are whooshing right over his head.

I bet this fool thought that philosophy class was difficult.

And we wonder why "conservatives" have been losing to the even more idiotic Leftists for a couple generations? It's because people like this are both foolish and ignorant. A lethal combination.

If he actually prayed to God that he pretends to serve, and read His scriptures, and applied his heart to understanding them, he wouldn't have written any of the points that Vox is systematically ripping to shreds. Or actually, Vox isn't ripping them to shreds, he's just skewering them with a couple swords strokes and them hanging them up to see how poorly thought out the Churchian's points are when they argue.

Go and do likewise. None of us should be reticent to engage with these hopeless Cucks.

Blogger Nathan February 09, 2018 1:28 PM  

"He professes to love the United States and believes it is "a bastion of freedom" but rejects nationalism on principle, does not believe it is superior, and believes its attributes are accidental. This is not possible."

Must attributes or properties be "essential" in order to be of significance? I am not sure how saying that a property is accidental necessarily translates to being of no importance for us in the real world.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 09, 2018 1:30 PM  

It's a terrible misapplication of Aristotle to assume Essence is all and accident nought. Especially when you can't understand what either term means.

Blogger Cloudswrest February 09, 2018 1:32 PM  

" The Alt Right is so scientifically illiterate they have to make up words to attempt to sound like they know what they are saying."

This guy should look up the "Sapir-Whorf" hypothesis. It helps to understand and talk about concepts if there are words referencing them. Defining new words for unnamed concepts one is discussing is not being "illiterate."

Blogger SouthRon February 09, 2018 1:44 PM  

@Damn Son

That doofus takes Cameltoe Fapatron as a serious rebuttal of Vox. What more do you need to know?

Blogger VD February 09, 2018 2:13 PM  

That's a reliable gamma tell. Any response is always a "tantrum" or a "rant". They project their gamma rage while playing the female game of "first one to cry loses".

Blogger Koanic February 09, 2018 2:16 PM  

The tongue is a double-edged sword, closer to your throat than another's.

Churchianity fosters a culture of breast-beating shame in imitation of Luke 18:13, but with much more extensive focus on the self. The well-intentioned participant damages himself thereby. Would that one had told me to either fast or snap out of it.

> To be fair, you are.

Squarely delivered.

> To be even more fair, there is a form of competitive abasement Christians sometimes get into, that is nothing more than the Pharisee dirtying his face and mussing his hair so that all will know he is fasting. It's one of the nastier expressions of pride.

I wasn't implying that.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 09, 2018 2:33 PM  

Sorry to impute what I would have meant to what you said.

I took the guy's plea as heartfelt, and I pray God has mercy on us both, but I've seen the, for want of a better term, humility-grubbing many times as well.

Blogger The Cooler February 09, 2018 2:36 PM  

I do beleive she was fellowshipping.

It also wouldn't surprise me if she were Southern, where "I" not infrequently takes the place of "we" and "us" in certain situations (and vice versa). C.f. the comedic use of pluralis maiestatis amongst the southern upper-crust for further edification.

Blogger The Cooler February 09, 2018 2:38 PM  

I do beleive she was fellowshipping.

It also wouldn't surprise me if she were Southern, where "I" not infrequently takes the place of "we" and "us" in certain situations (and vice versa). C.f. the comedic use of pluralis maiestatis amongst the southern upper-crust for further edification.

Blogger tublecane February 09, 2018 3:05 PM  

@12-Actually, mathematical genius and poetical talent run in families. You're not born with wisdom, but some are born with a greater capacity than others to gain it.

Blogger tublecane February 09, 2018 3:38 PM  

@46-Good you bring that up. I don't want to guess at this guy's thought processes, but I suppose I'm going to. There's a tendency among people who dabble in philosophy to grow over-abstract and lose their place in history, so to speak. Especially if they're into Enlightenment philosophy, even if they couch it in Christian terms.

The clue to this guy is his obsession with deontology. Overly abstract enlightened dermatologists tend to shift into Lawgiver mode. Not Lawgivers for a particular time and particular place, but for all humanity at all times. Like Global Moses instead of Israelite Moses.

Take "categorical imperatives" (please). They're moral obligations that are supposed to apply unconditionally. Meaning it doesn't matter if you're a elderly Turkish woman or a teenage male in Buenos Aires, you follow the rule. Why spend all your thinking time in the realm of such rules? Honestly, I don't know. But people do.

One reason may be that college kids in dorm room bull sessions don't like it when people interrupt their thundering pronouncements from the mountaintop with rejoinders like, "Yeah, well, you're just saying that because you're a white guy from so-and-so." And this guy acts like an adolescent, so let's pretend he is. Budding young universalists don't want to be right in relation to this or that particular condition. They want to be right, period. Therefore, they must be for and against things that are good or bad for all people at all times.

It's the same motivation causing people to adopt whole dogmatic packages like Marxism or libertarianism, which attempt to explain *everything*, not merely why you sitting in your chair right now incline toward this instead of that.

The other reason is laziness. If you adopt whole packages you have to think less. And you can simply disregard facts of human existence you'd rather not dirty your mind with, thank you very much. For instance, among most contemporary Universal Lawgivers: race.

Blogger Eze Garcés February 09, 2018 4:21 PM  

Sorry if I appear as an unknown,I'm new here and I don't know how to log in this (either that por the option don't appear on my phone).Great article,I'm against this churchian POV too.And I don't know if you have se en this https://nightwind777.blogspot.com.ar/2018/02/cultish-vox-day-attacks-christians.html?m=1
It could be the sale guy,a friend of him or a troll

Blogger Dexter February 09, 2018 5:34 PM  

"The ontology of a thing is its necessary attribute. The unnecessary attributes are accidental. When I consider the ontology of a human being, his or her ethnicity, nationality, race, skin tone, language, age, and body shape are all accidental attributes."

This is a level of faggotry that shouldn't even be possible!

Blogger Dexter February 09, 2018 5:38 PM  

"All human beings are equal in terms of worth."

Then I wonder why Heaven and Hell exist, and why each of them is a hierarchy.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 09, 2018 10:10 PM  

This is a level of faggotry that shouldn't even be possible!

It's over 9000!

Blogger Koanic February 10, 2018 1:51 AM  

> Sorry to impute what I would have meant to what you said.

No need to apologize, you didn't.

Anonymous Anonymous February 10, 2018 5:49 AM  

"all men are created equal"

Anyone who has worked around children and is honest will tell you that God gives everyone different "gifts and talents". No two kids are totally equal in all respects --- and that is the way God intended for it to be, else he would have made a clone army.

The leftists keep hollering about "diversity" even as they deny that people are different from one another. They are crazy.

Anonymous Anonymous February 10, 2018 8:11 AM  

Someone who does not know Latin and Ancient Greek, which "kaonic" most likely doesn't, should simply shut the fuck up when it comes to Christianity, or as our beloved Spaniard put it:

Christianity, when it abolishes its ancient liturgical languages, degenerates into strange, uncouth sects.
Once contact is broken with Greek and Latin antiquity, once its medieval and patristic inheritance is lost, any simpleton turns into its exegete.

- Nicolás Gómez Dávila

"koanic" and the idiot taking offense at the 16 points need to do decades of
penance to atone for their imbecility. I suggest joining a monastery for
the end of your lives. Without internet access, of course.

Koanic is one of those retarded and complacent Christians that Kierkegaard unmasked.

"Snidely Whiplash" is correct: "koanic" is literally dripping with pride.

Blogger Koanic February 10, 2018 9:02 AM  

I wonder how many languages I would need to learn to mistake a Communist for the Vicar of Christ.

Anonymous Anonymous February 10, 2018 9:53 AM  

I apologise for the rather harsh language I used toward "koanic"
("retarded" etc. pp.), but my basic point still stands: "koanic"
is simply too arrogant to be likeable, and his points and his pursy,
arrogant style (a bit like one of those "know-it-alls") are often meant
to stir up heated debates. Apparently, I'm not alone in thinking that.

For example, his claim that Paul wasn't even Pope and so his epistles
are of no value to a Christian is so laughably deranged that it might
indeed be a mistake to take "koanic" seriously in the first place. So,
in that sense, my apologies if I was simply feeding a troll.

In that sense, have a nice day, and work out your salvation with fear
and trembling.

Blogger Koanic February 10, 2018 10:36 AM  

I think, having declared that everyone who doesn't know Latin and ancient Greek "should simply shut the fuck up when it comes to Christianity", that you are quite alone here, rat.

Blogger Nathan February 10, 2018 11:15 AM  

#46 -- thanks for your response. I see what you are saying. Maybe that is why Vox responded as he did. I actually do think that the Golden Rule is more significant than you perhaps (though I'm quite nuanced about it and how you can go about using it ; more detail here: https://reliablesourcessite.wordpress.com/2017/04/13/the-golden-rule-is-not-a-social-construction/), but this would go hand in hand with ontological factors, and not against them. In any case, I to tend to think that it makes sense to see humanity as one, with race still being something significant. We can certainly justify language like collie, poodle, bulldog, huskie, St. Bernard, etc., even as they are all just really variations of wolves.

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