ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2018 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Tuesday, February 06, 2018

Why AREN'T there more smart Americans?

It's a mystery to WIRED. A deeply impenetrable mystery.
A quantum computer would be the cyber warfare equivalent of a nuclear bomb, which means the US government is often reluctant to let foreign scientists work on the most promising research. It’s a system that can slow down progress due the lack of ‘smart Americans,’ as one character in the book puts it.

“The number of American citizens who can do very high-end research who also can easily get security clearances is limited,” Ignatius says. “The ability of our schools to produce American students at a world-class level, that’s an important national challenge.”

He says that one reason the US lags behind other countries is a political culture in Washington in which too many leaders are ignorant of and hostile to basic science. Though he believes that recent events like the March for Science are a promising development.

“When adherents of the fact-based, reason-based, educated-and-proud-of-it world begin to fight back and say, ‘No, wait a minute. We’re not going to throw climate science or any other aspect of our fact-based tradition overboard,’ that’s going in the right direction,” Ignatius says.

He believes that one thing the US does have going for it is that the country still produces a disproportionately high number of creative and risk-taking individuals, and that it’s important not to lose that edge moving forward. “The sweet spot for us is somehow to be rigorous enough in giving people the basics, but also loose enough in letting people experiment and be creative,” he says. “But the basic math/science education, the US has got to get better at it, no question about it.”
Setting aside the irony of the idea that climate science is an "aspect of our fact-based tradition", or that trying to improve the basic math/science education in a public school system that has proven increasingly incapable of teaching children how to read, one wonders how handing over its most promising research to foreign scientists is going to help solve the problem of declining average IQ in the USA.


And if you haven't signed up for the Daily Meme Wars yet, you might want to consider doing so. This was today's Daily Meme.

Labels: , ,

73 Comments:

Blogger Amy February 06, 2018 12:40 PM  

Take politics out of math and science and you’ve solved half of the problem.

Build the wall and deport...you’ve got the whole thing in place

Anonymous c matt February 06, 2018 12:45 PM  

rigorous enough in giving people the basics, but also loose enough in letting people experiment and be creative

As in letting people actually test the claims of climate change? Hockey sticks!

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener February 06, 2018 12:49 PM  

We have to let students develop their innate creativity while continuously immersing them in political dogma...

Anonymous CarpeOro February 06, 2018 12:52 PM  

Took my wife an hour of watching a YouTube video to figure out how to do 1st grade "new" math. It is that bad.

Blogger Sterling Pilgrim February 06, 2018 12:54 PM  

Mexico as a nation has little need nor desire for reading... any reading at all, especially Great Literature. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/06/opinion/the-country-that-stopped-reading.html

Anonymous Keep Smiling February 06, 2018 12:54 PM  

But we cant teach smart kids... that would hurt the feelings of all the little stupid kids (those that dont want to "act white").

Heaven forbid we give the kids with potential a chance to actually learn.. no bring in common core to cripple them so they cant be any better than the dumbest kid in the class.

Anonymous The Cooler (Not a Fascist) February 06, 2018 12:57 PM  

But the basic math/science education, the US has got to get better at it, no question about it.

We simply haven't given the scientifically proven osmotic process of stuffing hoards of intellectually impenetrable orcs into classrooms with bright and promising kids enough time. Another 200,000 years(ish) oughta do 'er.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr February 06, 2018 12:59 PM  

When you take the bright kids and consign them to a Government "education" system that is geared to students of +1/-2 SD IQs, then have them taught by Education majors who are barely literate themselves, what do you expect?

Blogger bornagainpenguin February 06, 2018 1:00 PM  

Here's a question:

What happens to the pool of eligible Americans when you don't disqualify based on whether or not they have ever smoked a weed in the past?

Feelings on legalization aside is it possible part of the reason there aren't enough Americans qualified to do the work is because their security clearance requires them never having imbibed? Are we cutting off our noses to spite our faces in this regard? I wonder...

Blogger roughcoat February 06, 2018 1:07 PM  

Setting demographics aside, when you combine a fetish for credentials and a school system straight through college that makes highly intelligent and creative people feel depressed and/or suicidal, this is what you get.

Anonymous craig February 06, 2018 1:09 PM  

When STEM slots in taxpayer-funded universities are disproportionately given to foreign students who tick all the diversity boxes and are willing to pay full MSRP, what do you expect?

Blogger VD February 06, 2018 1:10 PM  

Setting demographics aside, when you combine a fetish for credentials and a school system straight through college that makes highly intelligent and creative people feel depressed and/or suicidal, this is what you get.

It has nothing to do with that. Making highly intelligent and creative people feel depressed does not actually LOWER THEIR IQs. That is something that can be fixed quickly and easily. An 8-point decline in the average IQ probably cannot be fixed without a societal crash.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd February 06, 2018 1:11 PM  

Americans considering grad school face much higher opportunity costs than the foreigners.

American PhD programs pay graduate assistants around $15 to $20k per year. An American engineer gives up a good job to chase a PhD, but a foreigner gets a raise when he's accepted as a graduate assistant, and gets a shot at a green card.

Smart Americans are working in America. Smart foreigners are cheating their way into US PhD programs, so that someday they can work in America.

Anonymous jim February 06, 2018 1:14 PM  

The USA still has the bulk of the world's elite STEM universities. There are world class universities in Canada, the UK, Israel, Germany, Switzerland, Australia, China, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore (etc), but the USA has the lion's share. Just look at the top 50 lists in any discipline. The problem is not with universities.

However, there are marked trends. Most STEM grad students in the USA are foreign, and half Chinese. There's a massive under-representation of whites in STEM areas. This could be due to selection bias, self-selection, incentives (e.g., universities have an incentive to take foreign students for various reasons), or any number of other factors. The National merit scholar lists do show that asians are outcompeting whites (and even Jews), meaning that a good chunk of elite STEM students from the USA are asian.

It's hard to compete with Koreans and Chinese for work ethic. I used to beat the crap out of them academically, but I had the advantage of a father born in hong kong and a ton of chinese friends. Their work ethic was not foreign to me. I think whites who have never seen how hard asians work are at a severe disadvantage. They also cheat like mad and study in groups.

In university programs, I noticed that those elite asians who can do all this marvelous science tend to continue cheating. I had a fellow teaching a PhD course in computational geometry stoop to lecturing his class of PhD students on academic honesty, since the Chinese students were going to the library and copying answer to problem sets instead of solving them. Enforce academic honesty and a lot of that asian advantage disappears.

Lastly, do we really think the black and hispanic population in the USA is going to run and gun with the asians in STEM?

Anonymous User February 06, 2018 1:18 PM  

Shifting the population mean for any observable attribute is a solved problem and the achievable shift is basically a function of the initial distribution and population size. The larger the starting population the more opportunity for editing there is. The primary and overwhelming challenge is selecting trustworthy editors.

Everyone who is at least reasonably bright observed long ago that every potentially effective solution to any societal problem, from the perspective of heritage Americans, is immediately off the table. The actual reason given in any given case is irrelevant since the reason is found after the solution is ruled out.

Blogger James Dixon February 06, 2018 1:21 PM  

> Why AREN'T there more smart Americans? - Wired.

Why aren't there more smart writers at Wired? - Americans.

Blogger Out of Nod February 06, 2018 1:22 PM  

It’s a system that can slow down progress due the lack of ‘smart Americans,’ as one character in the book puts it.

And:

When STEM slots in taxpayer-funded universities are disproportionately given to foreign students who tick all the diversity boxes and are willing to pay full MSRP, what do you expect?

1. Their are a lot of smart Americans, but their are a lot smarter foreign students that pay for these overpriced and often backwards programs.
2. Incentives play a big part - an engineer can make close to six figures out of university with a bachelors degree if they move to the right city and play their cards right in while pursuing academics.
3. Government work isn't stimulating. The sitting around, waiting, and bureaucratic practices don't make for an engaging or productive work environment. Pay is better in the private sector in most cases.

Blogger CM February 06, 2018 1:40 PM  

So I plan on homeschooling my oldest in a couple years when he gets to middle school. He loves science and math. He likes to do experiments, study things, take notes about it...

I'm not a science person. What would you recommend for a hands on science curriculum for 6-8th graders?

Anonymous Grayman February 06, 2018 1:40 PM  

The tides, they are a turning: Israel Claims George Soros Is Funding Protests, Demands African Migrants Leave

Anonymous The Cooler February 06, 2018 1:42 PM  

Another 200,000 years(ish) oughta do 'er.

Interesting fact for anyone still seriously questioning whether or not our contemporaries in Science are Purely Objective, apolitical little wind-up toys:

Not too awfully long ago, it was the scientific consensus of Physical Anthropology/Taxonomy -- i.e. the Science Fact -- that black Africans were, evolutionarily speaking, behind the rest of the human family by around 200K years. A consensus axed not too long after WWII, because, ironically enough, genetics.

Blogger Zerk J February 06, 2018 1:47 PM  

Maybe the smart Amricans got trapped in the tip of a condom.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd February 06, 2018 1:47 PM  

CM wrote:So I plan on homeschooling my oldest in a couple years when he gets to middle school. He loves science and math. He likes to do experiments, study things, take notes about it...

I'm not a science person. What would you recommend for a hands on science curriculum for 6-8th graders?


You want Apologia texts for high school. If he's bright and comfortable with basic algebra, you could probably use them in middle school.

Also, take a look at the Robinson Curriculum if he's bright. http://www.robinsoncurriculum.com/

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd February 06, 2018 1:48 PM  

Zerk J wrote:Maybe the smart Amricans got trapped in the tip of a condom.

Or parted out by Planned Parenthood.

Anonymous Cyclone Bob February 06, 2018 1:53 PM  

I say we force the White kids to attend all-White schools, and allow our precious Black minds to flourish, far away from that toxic racism.

Company! Fix bayonets!

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Grass February 06, 2018 1:54 PM  

Ominous Cowherd wrote:Americans considering grad school face much higher opportunity costs than the foreigners.

American PhD programs pay graduate assistants around $15 to $20k per year. An American engineer gives up a good job to chase a PhD, but a foreigner gets a raise when he's accepted as a graduate assistant, and gets a shot at a green card.

Smart Americans are working in America. Smart foreigners are cheating their way into US PhD programs, so that someday they can work in America.


@12 Bingo!

jim wrote:The USA still has the bulk of the world's elite STEM universities. There are world class universities in Canada, the UK, Israel, Germany, Switzerland, Australia, China, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore (etc), but the USA has the lion's share. Just look at the top 50 lists in any discipline. The problem is not with universities.

However, there are marked trends. Most STEM grad students in the USA are foreign, and half Chinese. There's a massive under-representation of whites in STEM areas. This could be due to selection bias, self-selection, incentives (e.g., universities have an incentive to take foreign students for various reasons), or any number of other factors. The National merit scholar lists do show that asians are outcompeting whites (and even Jews), meaning that a good chunk of elite STEM students from the USA are asian.

It's hard to compete with Koreans and Chinese for work ethic. I used to beat the crap out of them academically, but I had the advantage of a father born in hong kong and a ton of chinese friends. Their work ethic was not foreign to me. I think whites who have never seen how hard asians work are at a severe disadvantage. They also cheat like mad and study in groups.

In university programs, I noticed that those elite asians who can do all this marvelous science tend to continue cheating. I had a fellow teaching a PhD course in computational geometry stoop to lecturing his class of PhD students on academic honesty, since the Chinese students were going to the library and copying answer to problem sets instead of solving them. Enforce academic honesty and a lot of that asian advantage disappears.

Lastly, do we really think the black and hispanic population in the USA is going to run and gun with the asians in STEM?



@13 Most people don't realize that they cheat. They're good at rote stuff. Innovation is America's bread and butter. As a professor in Spain once said to me, "You Americans are the kings of specialization."

Cyclone Bob wrote:I say we force the White kids to attend all-White schools, and allow our precious Black minds to flourish, far away from that toxic racism.

Company! Fix bayonets!


@23 Give it a decade. Studying with whites will be RACISSSSS!

Blogger Azimus February 06, 2018 1:57 PM  

I personally made four Americans and they are being home-schooled by my wife. I figure, if they know how to do ANYTHING, and it isn't illegal by the time they're adults, they'll retire as millionaires by age 50.

Blogger roughcoat February 06, 2018 1:59 PM  

It has nothing to do with that. Making highly intelligent and creative people feel depressed does not actually LOWER THEIR IQs. That is something that can be fixed quickly and easily. An 8-point decline in the average IQ probably cannot be fixed without a societal crash.

Sorry for being unclear, but I was responding to the basic question the article asks. "Where are the smart Americans? Why aren't they doing our research?" Because the system as designed pushes them out in favor of midwits and rote learners from Asia.

I don't think there's a particular shortage of smart people in America. Swelling the population with hordes of dumbasses does not obviously lead to a swollen demand for highly intelligent people---at first blush I'd expect the opposite, as focus shifted from innovation to maintenance and provision for the dumbass class, but I haven't really thought about it---and unless there's evidence I haven't seen that white IQ fell off a cliff since the 1940s-50s there are surely plenty of very smart white people still around. More than ever, seeing how the non-hispanic white population has not fallen in absolute numbers.

But the system simply no longer knows how to identify and nurture them to start with, and has replaced assessment and training with either a demand for self-funded credentials that many people won't be able to pursue for various reasons (most of the market), or something like a retarded trivia game hiring process which again favors rote learners (the software industry, in this case).

I don't need to explain to you the whys behind it, since I think you understand them as well or better than I do, but what it boils down to is exactly what you said: it's societal decline. We're not just stagnant, we're rotting. We've been coasting on inertia my whole life as more and more bits of what made this society successful rotted and fell away. It's not easy to get people to see it, though.

Anonymous Faceless February 06, 2018 2:02 PM  

When the one girl was gone, they sat down all the grad students, and they explained to us: there was a no-hire order for white and Asian men. There was officially a no-hire order for everyone, but the presidentrix was handing out dispensations for women, non-Asian minorities, and "rock stars".

I did get a paper at the top echelon, invitation-only conference from some side work I did independent of my advisor; he was really angry because he wanted to control who could claim they had the publications.

I walked out that door as soon as I saw the inside of the sausage factory. It's so much more rewarding to make a product a customer wants than to lie for the grant-makers.

Anonymous Faceless February 06, 2018 2:05 PM  

Did these same people not cheer five years ago that the utes had the first inversion of the male/female IQ average (So that the female IQ was like 0.1 higher on average) in Generation Ritalin? And this was linked by the holy grail, Peer Reviewed Science, to reducing the intelligence of the smart boys by giving them the ADHD pills so teacher can sleep off her hangover?

A lot of smart American boys got drugged out of existence. The rest realized there are better ways to earn a living and there's no respect for being a lecturer who can be replaced by the next import if you ask to be paid as much as the grad students.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr February 06, 2018 2:09 PM  

Another factor, particularly in STEM fields and doubly so in Engineering, is that the bright kids are looking for jobs. These are upward mobility fields - who you know doesn't count as much as what you know.

And if you're the son of a lower-middle-class family, you don't have the luxury of spending time on a PhD. You take that B.S. and hit the job market.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents February 06, 2018 2:12 PM  

WIRED wants the current race-based university system to produce the same results as the more meritocratic race-blind system did.

WIRED writers are stupid.

Anonymous Anonymous February 06, 2018 2:28 PM  

I'm soon to finish my PhD in Physics at the ETH Zürich and during my career I have been in contact with academics from many of worlds most precious university. What is astonishing with respect to the USA is how many of its top research positions and student spots are filled with foreigners. There seems to be no "Americans First" mentality. This is in stark contrast to most other countries, where the natives have a clear advantage when applying.

Though I also wonder how much of this replacement by foreigners stems from the terrible reputation of the STEM-field in the US, which surely scares a lot of people away. Here I am seen as a normal person with a talent in the quantitative arts. There I always had the impression that a STEM-degree makes you a priori a nerdish loser.

Anonymous Jonny February 06, 2018 2:31 PM  

I'm soon to finish my PhD in Physics at the ETH Zürich and during my career I have been in contact with academics from many of worlds most precious university. What is astonishing with respect to the USA is how many of its top research positions and student spots are filled with foreigners. There seems to be no "Americans First" mentality. This is in stark contrast to most other countries, where the natives have a clear advantage when applying.

Though I also wonder how much of this replacement by foreigners stems from the terrible reputation of the STEM-field in the US, which surely scares a lot of people away. Here I am seen as a normal person with a talent in the quantitative arts. There I always had the impression that a STEM-degree makes you a priori a nerdish loser.

Anonymous Athor Pel February 06, 2018 2:33 PM  

I got all my degrees from one university, undergraduate as well as graduate. In all the years I was there I only remember reading about a handful, five or less, of real scientific discoveries that were touted by the university. Many times more publicized stories were about getting money or spending money.

The plaques on the walls displayed the names of donors. I do not remember a memorial for a scientific achievement.

Blogger Metric February 06, 2018 2:39 PM  

Wired's line about climate science is offensive. We are all completely indifferent if you want to do climate modeling -- good luck with that, and wake us up when you are willing to make a strong case that it's reliable enough to allow serious climate engineering. We do care -- a lot -- if you are actually trying to prop up cheaply-made, thinly-veiled excuses for leftists to seize control of the economy.

These people are poisoning the water hole and complaining that it tends to make people sick and drive them away.

Anonymous Grayman February 06, 2018 2:47 PM  

So many of the published papers are "filler", I wonder if we can even really tell where any current innovation is coming from. It would seem the signal to noise ration had seriously degraded as the majority of the published work becomes of little in any greater value.

Anonymous O.C. February 06, 2018 3:10 PM  

Why aren't there more smart Americans? Because "Idiocracy" is true.

Anonymous Anonymous February 06, 2018 3:32 PM  

@4

I assume that your wife was not watching the Tom Lehrer parody of 'New Math'?

Anonymous BBGKB February 06, 2018 3:33 PM  

Illegal aliens get tuition assistance, & blacks not smart enough to join the military get scholorships, while many whites who want college have no choice other than join the military because Weimar economics hit their parents.

Took my wife an hour of watching a YouTube video to figure out how to do 1st grade "new" math. It is that bad.

Common core copied how to teach math from Haiti, one of the stupidest shitholes. If they actually believed in equality they would copy from Germany/Japan.

PS retractionwatch shows the dieversecity in science http://retractionwatch.com/

Anonymous c matt February 06, 2018 3:37 PM  

Hah hah hah, you got it all wrong! The smart Americans recognize there is no $$$ in STEM as an actual STEM producer. The $$$ is in finance and legal, who trade off of the inventions of the STEM producers. Let the foreign STEM students pick the cotton on the corporate plantation while the finance and legal massas reap the rewards!

Blogger Brett baker February 06, 2018 3:54 PM  

Lol!

Blogger Brett baker February 06, 2018 3:57 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Brett baker February 06, 2018 4:00 PM  

Didn't Sailer have a graph a while back showing white and Asian US students were in the top 5 on global tests, but hispanic and black US students were towards the bottom?

Blogger Brett baker February 06, 2018 4:02 PM  

Didn't Sailer have a graph a while back showing white and Asian US students were in the top 5 on global tests, but hispanic and black US students were towards the bottom?

Blogger KBuff February 06, 2018 4:33 PM  

Lots of problems listed in the comments so far, and all true. Add to those the lack of incentive to go into, or stay in, a STEM field due to the H-1B program. There are plenty of intelligent Americans around for the jobs available, just not at the price most of them are willing to pay.

Blogger modsquad February 06, 2018 4:40 PM  

There's two sides to a pincer movement. One is the average IQ decline, the other is suppression of innate curiosity to figure out how things work. Heaven forbid anyone starts nosing around the structure of central banking. The tried and true concealment is social indroctrinations geared toward behavior control.

Anonymous Bellator Mortalis February 06, 2018 5:08 PM  

The simple fact is the Chinese are cheaters. They cheat in all their university classes. Take this simple fact into account when you see reports about how China is going to dominate the 21st century because of all of their PhD graduates. They aren't. This is why they have to copy most of their tech. Their products are crap. Their materials are substandard. They can't even produce good steel and how basic is that?

Blogger John Q Public February 06, 2018 5:18 PM  

"The number of American citizens who can do very high-end research who also can easily get security clearances is limited."

I do not believe him.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd February 06, 2018 5:20 PM  

Bellator Mortalis wrote:The simple fact is the Chinese are cheaters. They cheat in all their university classes.

My Chinese classmates in grad school earned their test grades, at least. They were smart, and they helped me study. There is no doubt in my mind they would have cheated had they needed to, but they didn't need to. Cheating is normal in that culture, but so is hard work, and the foreign students who come here are definitely among the brightest.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd February 06, 2018 5:22 PM  

John Q Public wrote:"The number of American citizens who can do very high-end research who also can easily get security clearances is limited."

I do not believe him.


Me, either. A secret clearance isn't a very high bar to get over. Finding an American who was willing to get a PhD might be hard, getting him a security clearance won't be.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 06, 2018 5:38 PM  

I assume the Wired fools are true believers in the Blank Slate Theory

Blogger Allen L. February 06, 2018 6:05 PM  

I would say the university system is generally hostile to the idea of American exceptionalism and excellence. If you start with a very small population, 1% of the general population, coupled with 3 to 4 generations as US citizens, and not indoctrinated with anti-American hogwash, you are left with a miniscule fraction of people willing and able to work on the nuclear weapon of computers. By design.

Blogger Robert What? February 06, 2018 6:07 PM  

In the United States, excellence and achievement are excoriated and considered a sign of "privilege".

Anonymous Anonymous February 06, 2018 6:42 PM  

You can't get good bargain steel in small orders. Good product is available but you'd have to pay through the nose for it.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf February 06, 2018 7:16 PM  

Did I mention the Dean of Science who had no idea who Francis Bacon was? Sorry for beating that dead horse. It's just frustrating. So tiresome. Exhausting really.

About 20% of American graduates are functionally illiterate. I've yet to see a breakdown on ethnic background, but I doubt the numbers hold up for E. Asian citizens.


As an aside: In Aristotle's Term Logic the Term (subject or predicate) is considered to be objective. A terms sit between 'concept' and 'word'. Though intangible, the Term itself was/is considered objective. Does anyone have a good analogy to help clarify this in my mind? I have a hard time understanding how something that cannot be held or seen or even measured (I assume), can yet still be considered to be objective and not subjective.

Perhaps I'm over thinking this?

See: Socratic Logic by Peter Kreeft for an ellabortation.

Anonymous 2106 Things I Hate. February 06, 2018 7:53 PM  

"you don't have the luxury of spending time on a PhD. You take that B.S. and hit the job market."

Most good Engineering folks with just a BS are earning as much or more than the average PhD college professor in the US after 10 years or so.

With the added bonus, relative to the Professors, of actually doing something of worth.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd February 06, 2018 7:57 PM  

Meng Greenleaf wrote:Did I mention the Dean of Science who had no idea who Francis Bacon was? Yes.

Was he Asian? I've noticed they usually know their own history, and are weak on Western History, which is as it should be.

Meng Greenleaf wrote:About 20% of American graduates are functionally illiterate. I've yet to see a breakdown on ethnic background, but I doubt the numbers hold up for E. Asian citizens.

I'd guess that 20% is mostly NAMs, a significant number of Whites, and essentially no Northern Asians.

What percentage do you suppose are capable of reading, but simply refuse to read beyond the bare minimum required for employment? I'd guess that's much higher than 20% of college grads. There isn't much practical difference between can't read and won't read.

Blogger Daniel February 06, 2018 8:09 PM  

No one passes the abstract anyway

Blogger Daniel February 06, 2018 8:14 PM  

Argentinians produces top steel so definitively not that hard

Blogger DonReynolds February 06, 2018 10:22 PM  

Why aren't there more smart Americans?
The answer starts with an "I"....
but there are so many answers that start with the letter "I" and they all seem to play a role:
Immigration
Illegal aliens
Integration
Idiocracy
Intermarriage
Interbreeding
Interracial
Irrational

No doubt you can think of even more.

Anonymous Ryan G February 06, 2018 11:27 PM  

“The number of American citizens who can do very high-end research who also can easily get security clearances is limited,” Ignatius says.

Notice the presence of two conditions there. Everyone here seems focused on the former on not on the latter. Having a history of political agitation, being apart of fringe left-wing groups, and generally acting like a good college liberal are perfectly legitimate grounds for being denied a clearance. Add on top of that the fact that if you are highly educated, talented, and skilled you have very little reason to work for the government. Good benefits aside, you can easily go out an make more money in the private sector.

The cited article is just a plea for yet more funding for education, in spite of the proven fact that there is little correlation between funding and student outcome.

Anonymous Hoss February 06, 2018 11:33 PM  

Maybe because we spend more money on education than anyone on the planet, and then turn around and target the programs to the lowest common denominator. We need to quit spending so much money on the schools that aren't producing anything other than future welfare recipients, and instead take those "investments" (tax dollars) and send them to where you're actually going to get a return on your investment.

My kids are remarkably bright and go to excellent schools, and they're still not challenged by anything other than the workload for the sake of having a workload.

Anonymous Luke February 06, 2018 11:43 PM  

Four years ago, I had essentially identical conversations with two petroleum geologists at two different oil companies of which I guarantee their name you have heard. Each of them was the only white male (they were both at least 60 YO) on a staff of 14-16 M.S.-level geologists and geophysicists. (Meanwhile, my undergraduate graduating class of fellow Geology majors in the mid-1980s was 2/3 white male, 1/3 female, and essentially nothing else.) They told me that hiring managers at their company were assessed on their diversity hiring statistics not merely for bonuses and promotion, but for retention. So, to maximize their stats, none of them would ever again, the rest of their careers, hire even one American white male.

Me? I have a Geology M.S. and close to a decade and a half looking at rocks for oil companies on oil rigs. While I'm very, very good at this, it only pays sub-80K a year, and a Geology B.S. is the MOST education there is any point in getting for this job. (Virtually no other major has any utility in this work, and holders of practically every other degree are deemed "nondegreed", and aptly so IMO, as they never learn the rocks all that well.)

I have taught various kinds of training, from laborers to other geologists, and both liked the work and seemed good at it. Get a Ph.D. in Geology with no financial aid, maybe get some occasional adjunct teaching gigs for <$30K a year, so I can fail to support my children, get divorced, and live in my truck? Not much of a backup plan there, either.

Anonymous Luke February 06, 2018 11:50 PM  

Re earlier posts:

1) The top thing to fix K-12 schooling (if governmentectomy isn't in the future)? Ban holders of any degree granted by any College of Education (and anything they have ever written or spoken) from setting foot on school grounds, solely excepting as parents to their own children.

2) To help out a middle-school bright boy with STEM inclinations, I highly recommend the science fiction writer Isaac Asimov's nonfiction books on math and science. He actually made reading about logarithms entertaining. Dr. Pournelle has a bit of similiar stuff out as well that is good IMO.

Anonymous AB.Prosper February 07, 2018 12:10 AM  

Ominous Cowherd wrote:What percentage do you suppose are capable of reading, but simply refuse to read beyond the bare minimum required for employment? I'd guess that's much higher than 20% of college grads. There isn't much practical difference between can't read and won't read.

Its about this in Southern California. We can't support a $1 book store with any real ease and its not just Amazon or online reading but a preference for other activities

This is driven by immigration but not entirely old line white Californians don't read much either

as to the main topic, the number of people that operate at that level is very limited and the ones that would be comfortable with a security clearance lifestyle, clean living family oriented Conservative types that want a government job is a smaller subset of that

Its pay far better (up to half a million) to work as a quant

Most computer types are Leftists with remaining bulk being Left Libertarian . They don't fit in there anyway and many have bad habits, weed being a huge one that DQ's them


Blogger roughcoat February 07, 2018 2:06 AM  

They told me that hiring managers at their company were assessed on their diversity hiring statistics not merely for bonuses and promotion, but for retention. So, to maximize their stats, none of them would ever again, the rest of their careers, hire even one American white male.

That's interesting. Four years ago is when I stopped getting geology contracts, even from the (major) company for which I'd already done several seasons of excellent work. I heard through the grapevine that the management claimed they had asked me to come back when the other multi-year contractors asked about me, but that was a lie, and when I applied at the earliest date possible the next year I was rejected with no reason given. I am, of course, a white male.

I worked in mining, not oil, but in my short career I saw a marked trend toward hiring women (who have nothing like the strength required for the job) and any minorities who would brave the arctic cold. Meanwhile white men were fired for the dumbest shit in the world, including mistakes women made but which were pinned on the nearest man by the management. I never saw a woman or minority get fired. I actually witnessed one of the bosses say he would fire a man for a safety-related mistake one of the women made, but he didn't want to make her feel bad.

Clown world.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf February 07, 2018 3:14 AM  

The Dean of Science is European (Germanic). It's not as difficult as you would imagine. Student graduates from H.S. not really having learned much. Completes a B.S. by compliantly passing a lot of assessment items, and cannot find work, so sticks around to do a Ph.D. and is offered a teaching job at his University. While he/she may not have learned much else, they have learned to work the system. Thus, it's very common in my experience to find seeming idiots working at Universities (often on a fat 6) and they don't appear to know all that much. Most would never make it in the free-markets. Which may be why most despise free-markets. Not all, but many.

What percentage are capable of reading? That's a great question. I don't know. But if I had to guess I would think literacy rates could be >95%. Children with Down Syndrome can read at grade level 4. I believe children with IQ's as low as 40 can also learn to read, though the time required to learn is proportional to IQ. Japan has a literacy rate around 99% (their verbal IQ is around 100). Which is in line with with France and Germany.

But, I really don't know what that answer would be.

Anonymous 10900209 February 07, 2018 3:31 AM  

Our ruling elite would infinitely prefer to see this country crash and burn than admit that replacing white males with Mexicans and gender-queer Somalian Muslim women-of-color is not going to result in a Star Trek future.

Blogger Jack Amok February 07, 2018 3:33 AM  

Hah hah hah, you got it all wrong! The smart Americans recognize there is no $$$ in STEM as an actual STEM producer. The $$$ is in finance and legal, who trade off of the inventions of the STEM producers.

This is the real problem. Our effed up economy rewards banksters and shysters so the most capable and ambitious youts gravitate to those parasitic occupations.

Blogger Koanic February 07, 2018 4:44 AM  

Immigration is not just a border phenomenon.

Diversity disemployment is God's way of helping the white man free up time for genocide.

Blogger Unknown February 07, 2018 11:15 AM  

@64 Meng: About 80% of college grads are not functionally illiterate. Of that 80%, many might as well be functionally illiterate, because they refuse to read. No literature, no learning, no nothing unless it is an immediate requirement for their job.

OC

Blogger Meng Greenleaf February 07, 2018 6:58 PM  

RE: banksters and shysters

I have thought about this for years. I don't doubt that there are crooked bankers, but I'm not convinced this is the entire answer. Or even the primary reason. Though it may be. Inadvertently.

I think part of the reason is indeed money. The way in which people value things is mostly through fiat currency and income tax lends a value undeserved to fiat currency. This act itself distorts all value appraisal in society.

Most people have no idea what the value of research is - including, ironically, the researchers.

I've spent years and years perusing research that may or may not be valuable. If it's a dead-end or I am defunded (both very likely) then who knows what the value was? If I cure a horrible disease. Then some of the value will be known. What is the value assuming I only inspire someone who then goes on to cure a disease?

It's pretty difficult to find the answers. I beleive the old system of private University where teaching was the primary focus was a better way to fund private research. But here we are.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd February 07, 2018 7:33 PM  

@64 Meng, I was speculating on how many won't read, not how many can't. 80% of college grads can read, but probably many of the 80% won't. Might as well be illiterate if you never read.

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts