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Thursday, March 01, 2018

Smart Trump, Dumb Trump, Sneaky Trump

Sometimes the God-Emperor can't seem to get out of the way of his own emotions. On the other hand, it is always dangerous to assume that you know which Trump Mode happens to be operative in any given situation.
Yesterday, the President held a bipartisan meeting on school safety and gun control. It was a nightmare. Trump taunted lawmakers by telling them "you're afraid of the NRA." He'll soon find out why politicians are afraid of the NRA during the 2018 elections if he doesn't walk balk some of the insanity he was tossing about in that meeting.

Some of the ridiculous changes to firearm laws Trump seemed amenable to include outlawing private guns sales, raising the age to 21 to buy a long gun, and taking people's guns without due process. Like I said, what a dumpster fire. Not one of those things will stop criminal maniacs from getting a firearm.

Dick's Sporting Goods, which is a crappy, over priced place to buy anything a firearm will not sell "assault-style" weapons. Quick question: what is the difference between an "assault-style" long gun and a long gun that is not "assault-style"? Let me know in the comments. Sadly, Walmart, where I occasionally purchase Federal 12ga 8 shot but will not do so any longer, says it will not sell firearms to consumers who are under the age of 21.

President Trump mentioned in his gun control conclave that he was going to issue an executive order banning bump stocks. And in a mind-blowing move, Trump dismissed Rep. Steve Scalise when he suggested national reciprocity be included in any gun legislation.
Dumpster fire barely begins to describe it. However, as always, I counsel patience when attempting to analyze and understand Donald Trump's words and actions. First, what has actually changed? Nothing. At the very least, wait and see whether this is strategic posturing, tactical maneuver, or simple emoting.

If nothing else, Trump is an astute observer and a fast learner. He's not a complete idiot, and it's hardly going to escape him that all the parties and people who are most implacably opposed to him are literally rubbing their hands over his latest outburst. And possibly Trump's greatest political skill is his ability to a) realize he has made a mistake and b) walk it back without hesitation, regret, or apology.

The other thing to remember is that Trump is neither a savior nor is he Alt-Right. He is absolutely going to get things wrong from time to time. On those occasions, we should oppose him as steadfastly as if he were Hillary Clinton or Judeo Christ himself. But we should do so with the awareness that he can change his mind and the hope that he will do so, and the understanding that he is mistaken rather than the enemy.

The lesson, as always, is never count the God-Emperor out. That's not an expression of loyalty, merely one of experience.

Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump
Many ideas, some good & some not so good, emerged from our bipartisan meeting on school safety yesterday at the White House. Background Checks a big part of conversation. Gun free zones are proven targets of killers. After many years, a Bill should emerge. Respect 2nd Amendment!

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106 Comments:

Blogger Weouro March 01, 2018 11:07 AM  

I'm surprised that walmart and dick's can apparently place arbitrary age restrictions on products.

Blogger James Dixon March 01, 2018 11:09 AM  

> ... and the understanding that he is mistaken rather than the enemy.

This should never be forgotten. There are plenty of enemies out there. Trump isn't one of them.

Blogger James Dixon March 01, 2018 11:10 AM  

> I'm surprised that walmart and dick's can apparently place arbitrary age restrictions on products.

Unless there's a local or state law banning such, they can.

Blogger Nate March 01, 2018 11:11 AM  

". On those occasions, we should oppose him as steadfastly as if he were Hillary Clinton or Judeo Christ himself."

Thank you.

This is precisely the thing a lot of folks need to hear. Trump bumbles around sometimes... but he corrects himself. How can he be expected to correct himself if his supporters don't let him know he's screwing up?

You're not cucking by pointing out that Trump is being stupid when Trump is being stupid. You're helping the man.

Blogger Giraffe March 01, 2018 11:11 AM  

Even a lot of Democrats won't dare cross the NRA. Too bad the NRA leadership is its own worst enemy.

Blogger Desdichado March 01, 2018 11:14 AM  

The other thing he often does is pretend to offer the Left something that they really want, but then when it gets bogged down in procedure or negotiations, quietly do what the Right has wanted, while the Left's agenda just kind of goes off into a bog and dies somewhere.

I used to pen fairly strongly worded responses to the White House when Trump said stuff like this, but honestly, I'm getting tired of doing it because it rarely seems like he's serious about what he says when he proposes some surrender to some radical Leftist lunacy.

Blogger JACIII March 01, 2018 11:15 AM  

The best part of yesterday's dumpster fire was NeverTrump taking a premature victory lap. Just in case we forgot who they were.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan March 01, 2018 11:16 AM  

I'd give the D party good money if they take up the "guns first due process second" bit of reasoning.

That is so memeable

Blogger Giraffe March 01, 2018 11:17 AM  

@6,
I think you should let Trump know how you feel. Just like Jesus likes it when you pray, the God Emperor likes to hear from his children.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) March 01, 2018 11:20 AM  

I think you should let Trump know how you feel. Just like Jesus likes it when you pray, the God Emperor likes to hear from his children.

This. Trump needs feedback from his supporters when he goes off the reservation.

Blogger VD March 01, 2018 11:22 AM  

I used to pen fairly strongly worded responses to the White House when Trump said stuff like this, but honestly, I'm getting tired of doing it because it rarely seems like he's serious about what he says when he proposes some surrender to some radical Leftist lunacy.

You're not actually... tired... of winning, are you?

Blogger Looking Glass March 01, 2018 11:24 AM  

Sometimes the "I've lived in New York all my life" aspect of Trump comes out. It's less he doesn't know the topics and far more he doesn't know some of the subtle nuisances involved. Anyone remember the dust up about Abortion & punishing Women that get one?

At the same time, I believe "Art of the Deal" has sold pretty well, and he explicitly states he wants to take the outer most potential position and work in from it. So, in something like this "open air" meetings, are we seeing Trump's actual thoughts? Or does he have no real position on the topic, so he's seeing what people respond to? Did he just force the Left to defend Due Process by being vague about laws already on the books?

We don't nor can't know in each situation. Which is exactly why, at this point, we know Trump won't cuck on subjects. He'll just be wrong about certain things, and we need to voice where & why he is wrong. Keep him honest, just as he asked us to do for him.

In related news, Trump has spent the last 6 months going full Chad on D.C. over DACA. It fully dies at midnight on Tuesday. Funny, that.

Blogger August March 01, 2018 11:29 AM  

This anti-NRA stuff is ridiculous, because they often turn around and advocate for exactly what the NRA advocates for. The NRA is a converged organization.

But it's like net neutrality, climate change, no child left behind... Stupid slogans for the IQ challenged. Make me want monarchy. China's 'president for life' is probably a step in the right direction. I don't want these idiots voting.

Blogger hewhofuckscouchs March 01, 2018 11:32 AM  

The NSA should learn from the Rabid Puppies.

"You think we're buying off politicians? Hold my beer."

Blogger hewhofuckscouchs March 01, 2018 11:32 AM  

NRA*.

Blogger LTHolder March 01, 2018 11:36 AM  

Trump likes to goad the opposition into doubling down on stupidity. By suggesting he is open to gun control legislation he can get democrats to run on gun control in 2018. Even democrats know this is a sure loser for them, which is why he benefits if they push strongly for it. Then in October he can come out with the GOP for national reciprocity or something and shore up the base. Or he can allow republican control of Congress appear as the only thing preventing draconian gun control. He doesn’t have to run again until 2020, plenty of time to do great things for the 2a after the gun grabbers lose miserably in 2018. He’s forcing the democrats to be the party of gun control, illegal immigrants and trans activists, not a winning coalition.

Blogger VD March 01, 2018 11:38 AM  

Trump likes to goad the opposition into doubling down on stupidity. By suggesting he is open to gun control legislation he can get democrats to run on gun control in 2018.

That is my Sneaky Trump suspicion.

Blogger Smokey Dust March 01, 2018 11:42 AM  

Trump’s going to have to win back gun culture folks. They’ve been waiting their entire lives to get pro 2A legislation. Trump even hinting the other way was a misfire that cannot be corrected by walking it back.

Congress is going to have to pass pro 2A legislation or people will figure out there is no point in voting in GOP if all they do is bend the knee to the minority party for the sake of appeasing people who will never vote for them.

Blogger Desdichado March 01, 2018 11:44 AM  

You're not actually... tired... of winning, are you?

Heh. Tired of getting emotional when it looks like he's not poised to win, more like.

Blogger FP March 01, 2018 11:46 AM  

Gun people are so used to being under the regulation gun that they black pill easily. Hopefully those quick to emotion will fight back and be the bad cop to Trump's good cop game playing.

I've seen some on this who are playing the hardcore philosophical line that "the 2nd should not be part of a political bargaining chip." Time will tell if Trump has gone dumb but the past year has shown that he knows how to play the opposition and put them in a corner.

A lot of this is also the Fudd NRA's fault for cucking on bump stocks after Vegas last year.

Blogger Smokey Dust March 01, 2018 11:46 AM  

NRA isn’t converged. Full to the brim with Fudds, yes. Embarrassingly civic nationalist, yes. Not converged yet.

Blogger Matthew March 01, 2018 11:49 AM  

VD wrote:Trump likes to goad the opposition into doubling down on stupidity. By suggesting he is open to gun control legislation he can get democrats to run on gun control in 2018.

That is my Sneaky Trump suspicion.


This seems blatantly obvious to me. Folks, if you haven't read The Art of the Deal, you need to.

Blogger Patrick Kelly March 01, 2018 11:50 AM  

"The lesson, as always, is never count the God-Emperor out. That's not an expression of loyalty, merely one of experience."

That's what I try to explain whenever I'm asked about this or that thing Trump tweeted or said, as if I'm caught in some kinda' gotcha re: my support of Trump.

Trump doesn't have an ideological bone in his body. He's a results driven pragmatist, with good instincts and ability to observe and learn.

The bad side of this is when he has little or no skin in the game, as in the gun-control debate. He is dispassionate, without any personal attachment. He may not get it at first, but give him some time and he will.

Unless he already has and is going all "sneaky" Sun Tsu on us.

Blogger Peaceful Poster March 01, 2018 11:51 AM  

TRUMPSLIDE 2020!

Blogger NoneOfTheAbove March 01, 2018 11:51 AM  

For what its worth when I watch this video all I see is him asking if things can be added to the bill and he is endorsing the domestic violence portion rather than Feinstein's bans.

I also wondered if he isn't doing some of this just to see what kind of support there really is for the 2A. Or are we just talk?

Blogger Brian S March 01, 2018 11:55 AM  

The problem here is the "gun crowd" get pushed a little further and it's probably going to be a full blown civil war. The stuff he was saying makes it sound like he's as ignorant of the founding principles of the US as a marxist. I hope you're right cos he's walking a razor thin line.

Blogger NoneOfTheAbove March 01, 2018 11:56 AM  

I suppose I should add a link to the video as well, no?

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/watch-dianne-feinstein-erupt-with-glee-after-trump-seems-to-endorse-her-assault-weapons-ban/




Blogger Nate March 01, 2018 11:56 AM  

"For what its worth when I watch this video all I see is him asking if things can be added to the bill and he is endorsing the domestic violence portion rather than Feinstein's bans."

/facepalm

Blogger Nate March 01, 2018 12:00 PM  

" It fully dies at midnight on Tuesday. Funny, that. "

I don't think it will. I think you'll see some crazy judge assert that it is unconstitutional for a Trump executive order to repeal an Obama executive order. because feelings.

Hope I am wrong.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) March 01, 2018 12:03 PM  


" It fully dies at midnight on Tuesday. Funny, that. "

I don't think it will. I think you'll see some crazy judge assert that it is unconstitutional for a Trump executive order to repeal an Obama executive order. because feelings.

Hope I am wrong.


Already happened:

https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/deferred-action-childhood-arrivals-response-january-2018-preliminary-injunction

Feb. 14, 2018, Update: USCIS is not accepting requests from individuals who have never before been granted deferred action under DACA. Due to federal court orders on Jan. 9, 2018 and Feb. 13, 2018, USCIS has resumed accepting requests to renew a grant of deferred action under DACA. The scope of the Feb. 13 preliminary injunction issued in the Eastern District of New York is the same as the Jan. 9 preliminary injunction issued in the Northern District of California. Unless otherwise provided in this guidance, the DACA policy will be operated on the terms in place before it was rescinded on Sept. 5, 2017, until further notice.

Blogger peppermint88 March 01, 2018 12:04 PM  

They arguably can't, one can easily see age discrimination as a violation of the penumbra of the whicheverth amendment cast by the Glorious Civil Rights Act of Boomer youth passed by dead Kennedy for the Great Society of Lindy Johnson. Louisiana's constitution also requires that all rights of citizens be conferred at 18, it was never amended to raise the drinking age, and a dead letter that was never repealed isn't a dead letter. Law is politics and politics is cynical.

Blogger Nate March 01, 2018 12:08 PM  

'Already happened:'

that doesn't say what you think it says. though I am sure the liberals will try to argue that it does.

Blogger peppermint88 March 01, 2018 12:11 PM  

Somehow, the dhimmicrats threw away what they had achieved due to their patience and restraint over the Obama years for nothing without Trump even countersignaling them.

CNN is praising CNN confirmed White supremacist Sessions due to Trump's countersignal but won't put in a good word for guns despite Trump's countersignal.

Blogger Looking Glass March 01, 2018 12:19 PM  

@29 Nate

I'm pretty sure that's already happened. But the last slate of "permits" last 2 years anyway. Once we get past March 5th, it'll all close up in the courts over the course of the year. SCOTUS will slap down the evil idiots of the 9th Circuit and that'll be that. Even the Left wing of the SCOTUS is normally not stupid on procedure stuff like this.

Blogger DonReynolds March 01, 2018 12:20 PM  

Come up for air, people....you are starting to turn blue.

Donald Trump is not from Texas, nor is he a Southerner, or from the Rocky Mountains, or from the High Plains states, nor is he from the Mid-West. He is from New York City and he is an uber-rich New Yorker and all his friends and relatives are New Yorkers. He plays golf and eats junk food...never served in the military. So what would he know or understand about this country's gun culture? Ok then.

Donald Trump is not our Champion and he is not going to fight all our battles. He has plenty of his own to fight and WE will still need to take up the sword on occasion in our own defense and WE should not hesitate to do so. Don't wait for Donald, or anybody else.

Lincoln said....I will stick by my friends when they are right and part with them when they are wrong.

When your friends are wrong, they need to follow YOU, not the other way around.

Blogger James Dixon March 01, 2018 12:21 PM  

This seems apropos: https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2018/03/01/they-dont-hate-the-nra-they-hate-you-n2455264

Blogger Justin Bailey March 01, 2018 12:22 PM  

After 24 hours of hysterics, I can always count on Vox to give a reasonable and measured take.

Blogger Ceasar March 01, 2018 12:23 PM  

GE does not believe in telling his enemies his plans. EVER!

Blogger NoneOfTheAbove March 01, 2018 12:24 PM  

Seems like he runs heavily on instinct rather than principles.

We need to push back hard so he knows where his base stands.

A dirty civil war could well be in the cards no matter what we do.

Brian S wrote:The problem here is the "gun crowd" get pushed a little further and it's probably going to be a full blown civil war. The stuff he was saying makes it sound like he's as ignorant of the founding principles of the US as a marxist. I hope you're right cos he's walking a razor thin line.

Blogger L March 01, 2018 12:28 PM  

I watched this meeting. Was disgusted when Feinstein said these guns (AR-15s) are something new that has never been around before. As always, Dems are either utterly ignorant about guns, or they just lie about them.

Blogger Looking Glass March 01, 2018 12:28 PM  

@25 NoneOfTheAbove

Trump is a "big picture" guy, but he's shown a lack of spending much time in the weeds of certain topics. His actual position on Abortion always seemed something like, "I've never thought about it". (Which is why no one gave him much flack over it. Get our judges through and we're happy.)

In the case of Guns, remember he's a life-long New Yorker and they have the some of the most draconian gun laws, yet I'm sure he knows *about* Heller. I would just assume he doesn't know all of the subtleties that lead to & came from Heller. That's fine. He's got a staff for those details. He's in a business meeting and he's throwing out ideas to get a conversation going, along with driving the Left to act logically upon their stated positions.

The townhall meeting was actually interesting in that regard. Trump is highly intelligent, but he's not a "wonk". Great wonks tend to make terrible leaders, so that's fine. But a great leader needs great wonks for the proper information. Guns are such an emotionally charged subject that Trump isn't necessarily playing sides against each other, but he has trying to sort out what can be done. Given the current Senate, the answer is, "very little".

Blogger Johnny March 01, 2018 12:29 PM  

His gun control bill of particulars is a crock. But given the source, no need to get upset until something more than talk takes place. Most likely he is doing the usual thing, seizing the verbal initiative. Entertaining to watch if you can keep from feeling upset even as he upsets others.

Blogger Looking Glass March 01, 2018 12:31 PM  

@39 NoneOfTheAbove

We're already in a civil war. There have been serious assassination attempts on GOP members across the country in the last year. The issue is how "hot" it goes, and if a full scale hot war can be avoided.

Blogger Salt March 01, 2018 12:33 PM  

Ceasar wrote:GE does not believe in telling his enemies his plans. EVER!

Truth. It's only rhetoric right now. All talk.

Blogger Dave March 01, 2018 12:33 PM  

Unfortunately Trump seems to have fallen in with the belief that politicians and the gov't can fix every problem and provide a solution for all of our afflictions. So they'll try to outdo each other to pass new laws and institute new regulations and claim this time it'll be different. And in 6 months or 18 months when it happens again, we'll act shocked and horrified and immediately a clamor will erupt to do something, do anything.

OpenID zhukovg March 01, 2018 12:34 PM  

I have to wonder, comparing the United States and the various European States, does the 2nd Amendment encourage complacency among Americans? Are we more tolerant of outrageous government actions because we have a theoretical ability to overthrow said government by force of arms?

Depending on how one defines it, the American Nation is, or soon will be, a minority in its own homeland. We have been successfully invaded and for all practical purposes occupied.

Is it because, no matter how marginalized we become, we can always cast a loving glance at our well stocked gun cabinet and all it right with the world?

The invasion of Europe is barely two years old and the Europeans are fighting back with increasing ferocity. The Europeans have no 2nd Amendment to fall back on, yet they strike back, both politically and increasingly, physically.

The White South Africans were, and may still among the most heavily armed, per capita, people in the world. Did their gun cabinets also become their opium?

Blogger James Dixon March 01, 2018 12:37 PM  

> Unfortunately Trump seems to have fallen in with the belief that politicians and the gov't can fix every problem and provide a solution for all of our afflictions.

With this problem, they can: No schools = no school shootings. Shut down the public school system and return education to the family. If it saves the life of even one child...

Blogger August March 01, 2018 12:37 PM  

@21,

They may not be totally SJW, but they are cucked enough to hand the SJWs a list, and then let them declare us all medically unfit to keep and bear arms. That's converged enough.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 01, 2018 12:40 PM  

Smokey Dust wrote:Trump’s going to have to win back gun culture folks.

Yes. Guns are not something that we can compromise on. Our grandfathers and fathers compromised, and it has been an unmitigated disaster. Never again!

Smokey Dust wrote:Congress is going to have to pass pro 2A legislation or people will figure out there is no point in voting in GOP if all they do is bend the knee to the minority party for the sake of appeasing people who will never vote for them.

Indeed. International Commie (R) is as bad as International Commie (D). Trump had better not come to be identified with either the Dems or the GOPe.

Brian S wrote:The problem here is the "gun crowd" get pushed a little further and it's probably going to be a full blown civil war. The stuff he was saying makes it sound like he's as ignorant of the founding principles of the US as a marxist. I hope you're right cos he's walking a razor thin line.

There is no room for compromise, not on bump stocks, not on age limits, not on chainsaw bayonets, not on shoulder things that go up, nothing. At this point, the only room for change is to repeal all gun legislation.

If Trump wants to be the Last President, compromise on guns is a sure way to end the union.

VD wrote:Trump likes to goad the opposition into doubling down on stupidity. By suggesting he is open to gun control legislation he can get democrats to run on gun control in 2018.

That is my Sneaky Trump suspicion.


I agree that Trump is not a gun control nutter. Civ Nat Trump probably doesn't have any emotional attachment to this issue, but Americans do. I don't know whether he realizes this is the one issue where an appearance of weakness will get Americans to drop him and the horse he rode in on.

Trump has done the push, now he had better do the pull fast, before the gun culture gives up on Trump and starts looking for someone much more extreme.

Blogger Looking Glass March 01, 2018 12:42 PM  

@46 zhukovg

Most of the country lives in areas with a population density below 150 ppl / sq mi. It's less the guns and more the space. People just leave the bad areas until they get so bad they get fixed. Problem is that we'll quickly run out of places to move out of.

Blogger Elwin Ransom March 01, 2018 12:45 PM  

The mental health and guns bit is a really tough issue. I can’t think of any solution that is perfect, free speech, guns, and crazy is tough. That ex-NFL lineman is a good example. What do you do with that guy in that situation? Really, I’m curious, what solutions would any of you have?

I can think up lots of things, but they all depend on people being honest and honorable, and I know people aren’t honest or honorable, so ya, I’ve got nothing other than to live with it, freedom is messy.

Blogger Elwin Ransom March 01, 2018 12:56 PM  

If Trump is playing the long game and bump stocks will get sacrificed, fine, whatever.

He either fixes immigration, in a miraculous fashion, or we are all screwed.

I didn’t find anything he said, once I read all of it, caused me that much heartburn.

Blogger Looking Glass March 01, 2018 12:57 PM  

Another aspect is that Trump is doing the Trumpian thing to defuse a topic by getting everyone lost in the weeds. Trade topics are going to drive most of the next few months, as tariffs on Steel & Aluminium drop next week, then NAFTA will see its exit probably in May. This is going to send the Deep State ballistic, as he's really going to shut off the corrupt money spigot.

Blogger pyrrhus March 01, 2018 1:04 PM  

Agreed, Trump is the one politician who actually pays close attention to the base (his customers)...I expect him to walk this thing back and leave the Left holding a bagful of air, as happened with the Dreamers....Which could infuriate the Dems' base, again.

Blogger mjusiq March 01, 2018 1:08 PM  

Your post here got me to remember another fine comment about The God Emperor from one Wolfmoon1776 at the excellent patriot site - The Last Refugee:

"Well, I don’t really have to do any holding together, now that I figured out what Trump is up to. He is shaking things out, but counting on Trump gravity to pull things back together as he moves along. He is moving “forward” at speeds Obama could not even dream of.

You and I will be anti-Trump trolls one day and MAGA heroes the next. Get used to it. Trump speed is the new normal. Some will call it flip-flopping, but that’s not what it is. Trump is dodging and weaving through reality faster than the reality can react to disrupt his plans."

The rest of his comment here - brilliant: https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/04/11/economic-diplomacy-china-refuses-a-dozen-cargo-ships-of-north-korean-coal/comment-page-1/#comment-3813675


Blogger Lovekraft March 01, 2018 1:10 PM  

Many of the right fear the background check slippery slope, and rightly so. History is replete with examples of an initial public 'good' slowly turning into full-blown soft tyranny.

But perhaps the left are the ones who should truly fear something as innocuous as background checks because I believe they are the ones who may end up on the losing end should stronger restraint be taken (for example, anyone having an optionalabortion would lose voting rights).

Blogger SciVo March 01, 2018 1:11 PM  

NoneOfTheAbove wrote:For what its worth when I watch this video all I see is him asking if things can be added to the bill and he is endorsing the domestic violence portion rather than Feinstein's bans.

That's...not the praise you seem to think it is. Like a no-fly list prohibition, a DV prohibition would infringe on a fundamental right without due process. (If you think they're just talking about criminal convictions for DV, then either you haven't grasped feminism's fundamental hostility to civil rights and due process, or you underestimate the capacity of Congressmen to repeat Adam's sin of submission.)

I'm in the "sneaky Trump" camp myself, but I can't let that pass unremarked.

Blogger AnvilTiger March 01, 2018 1:24 PM  

There is a big reason to not include national reciprocity in any gun ban bill. That is because if it IS included, a number of republicans would support the bill - maybe enough to pass it. If it is NOT included, no way will any bill pass house and senate.

Blogger Hammerli280 March 01, 2018 1:26 PM  

Trump needs to do some serious walking back...and some fence-mending. There's a reason why the NRA is feared. Firearm owners are often very, very serious about the issue. And neither forgiveness nor forgetfulness is in their nature.

After this, Trump needs to either throw them a good-sized political steak, or get ready to face a well-funded primary challenge.

OpenID nhinsnow March 01, 2018 1:34 PM  

I need y'alls opinion.

Since the most recent shooting, I have been subjected to tons of conversations about banning all guns.

From clients, with peers, and even in meetings with community leaders.

At what point do you stop debating and walk out, even if there are a few good people in the room? When do you say I'm no longer interested in this organization?

- NH

Blogger Demonic Professor El March 01, 2018 1:43 PM  

Matthew wrote:VD wrote:Trump likes to goad the opposition into doubling down on stupidity. By suggesting he is open to gun control legislation he can get democrats to run on gun control in 2018.

That is my Sneaky Trump suspicion.


This seems blatantly obvious to me. Folks, if you haven't read The Art of the Deal, you need to.


My first thought was Sneaky Trump too. State exactly what the opposition says, in plainspeak, so they have to own it.

If Trump reneges on his gun rights stance, he's toast and if he doesn't know that, he doesn't know much about his base (evidence shows otherwise).

Trummp does have the habit of making the Left hoist itself on its own petard, so we'll see.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 01, 2018 1:44 PM  

Salt wrote:Truth. It's only rhetoric right now. All talk.

Very true, and when Trump talks, it's about producing an effect, not about imparting information. Most folks still haven't caught on to that. If Trump says ``Lets do something stupid,'' most people assume that means he really wants to do something stupid, rather than assuming that Trump wants people to talk about doing something stupid to further Trump's purpose.

This is a problem on this issue, because too many of us are going to stop listening when Trump lures the Dems and the GOPe traitors into a trap by talking up gun control. We can cut him a little slack on talking smack about letting the DACA Nightmares stay, or smack about doors in our Big, Beautiful Wall, but he just doesn't have so much leeway on guns.

Blogger Demonic Professor El March 01, 2018 1:46 PM  

nhinsnow wrote:I need y'alls opinion.

Since the most recent shooting, I have been subjected to tons of conversations about banning all guns.

From clients, with peers, and even in meetings with community leaders.

At what point do you stop debating and walk out, even if there are a few good people in the room? When do you say I'm no longer interested in this organization?

- NH


Ask them if they are free citizens and if they own their own bodies. If they do, they have the right to self defense. Firearms are merely an equalization of force against criminals.

If it were sword, pike, and crossbow days, you would use a sword or crossbow to defend against highwaymen and scoundrels. Since a woman may be raped by a man with a gun, she has the right to defend herself with a gun.

It would take a special kind of commie to say we don't own our own bodies.

Blogger Brian S March 01, 2018 1:47 PM  

"If Trump is playing the long game and bump stocks will get sacrificed, fine, whatever."

The problem is any semi auto long gun can be bump fire, devices make it a little easier, but the techinacal details that would have to go into defining a ban on these devices would end up putting all semi-auto firearms on the table for banning through legal precedent.

Blogger DonReynolds March 01, 2018 1:51 PM  

nhinsnow wrote:I need y'alls opinion.

Since the most recent shooting, I have been subjected to tons of conversations about banning all guns.

From clients, with peers, and even in meetings with community leaders.

At what point do you stop debating and walk out, even if there are a few good people in the room? When do you say I'm no longer interested in this organization?

- NH


I certainly cannot speak for everyone, but I can speak for myself.

I would never join a gun control organization, so I will assume that the community org is not a gun control organization but some of the members want it to be or at least take a stand in favor of gun control.

I would remind them of a legal term....ultra vires....which is the mistake of a legal organization suddenly taking on purposes for which it was never intended, which could put their 501(c)3 (tax exempt) status in question.

If the organization is supposed to be devoted to helping the homeless but now they want to shift to advocating gun control legislation, that could raise legitimate questions about the tax status of the organization. Unlike a private firm, a non-profit tax exempt organization is obligated to their purpose and cannot shift to whatever cause they prefer on a dime.

Blogger John Sixth March 01, 2018 2:04 PM  

The FFL holder can place any restriction they see fit in told. Makes certain sense since they have to do the transfer and if something seems off then they can call it off as needed. Wal-Mart just has to dangle unemployment over them and voila. Policy.

There are however interesting problems with anti discrimination laws that could earn some industrious 18year olds full college tuition with a little creativity.

I look forward to the chaos.

Blogger Smokey Dust March 01, 2018 2:10 PM  

@ zhukovg I agree with looking glass. The population density is more of an issue than 2A causing complacency. The Italians are about to go full Deus Vult soon bc they got nowhere else to go. Americans can still move a little further down the road.

@ominous cowherd good points. I don’t think anyone who is aware of how Trump operates is truly concerned about gun control passing. Problem is the 2A true believers don’t care about AB testing or the Art of the Deal. Losing legislative battles for 100 years makes people unwilling, and rightfully so, to even consider compromise. Add the optics of Trump yucking it up with Feinstein during the same week Big Social is purging gun content isn’t exactly having a calming effect either.

Things could get heat up real fast.

Blogger John Sixth March 01, 2018 2:10 PM  

Oh look. The press reports. Twitter tweets. The zombies respond. How many times can the press pull this "three words of horror" game with a 1 hour long discussion?? Context, what the hell is that for right??

Next week look for the correction to the original story under the obituaries on page 147 below the fold.

All digital editions shall carry said retraction one page one. White text on white background.

Blogger seeingsights March 01, 2018 2:22 PM  

The Left would probably disagree with me here, but Trump has empathy. Examples of his empathy are allowing relatives of victims of illegal immigrants to tell their story; assisting in hurricane relief efforts; even attaching Syria for allegedly hitting women and children with chemical weapons.
I think Trump's empathy side is showing now.
By the way, every successful businessman I've worked with--mostly millionaires--contrary to stereotypes, have a strong sense of right and wrong, and they give a damn when something bad happens.

Blogger James Dixon March 01, 2018 2:42 PM  

> There are however interesting problems with anti discrimination laws...

That's putting it mildly.

Blogger Dangeresque March 01, 2018 2:43 PM  

My money is on sneaky Trump... Appear far-left to get your enemies to think, if only on a subconscious level, that you may be on their side. Then slowly "moderate" your position while negotiating and end up with them ceding more territory than you do. A bump stock ban would make a great decoy because it essentially has no real world effect whatsoever. One can me made from $20 worth of parts at your local hardware store.

Blogger Uncle Max March 01, 2018 2:44 PM  

Wal Mart and Dicks stopped selling Ar's back after Sandy Hook. So both PR statements are stupid. ( some Wal Marts' in some areas still sell real guns, but MOST of them stopped back in 2012.)

What's the difference between Wal Mart saying they won't sell to under 21 and them saying they won't sell ammo to a black? Yes, I know, but they are out on a ledge with their new rules if anyone wanted to haul them into court. I doubt anyone would.

I'm fine, as a conservative, with a business drawing a line for themselves. I just would appreciate the left explaining why it's ok for Wal Mart and not for some bakery somewhere. The hypocrisy is glaring.

Blogger Dire Badger March 01, 2018 2:48 PM  

"Many ideas, some good & some not so good, emerged from our bipartisan meeting on school safety yesterday at the White House. Background Checks a big part of conversation. Gun free zones are proven targets of killers. After many years, a Bill should emerge. Respect 2nd Amendment!"

So far, Trump has proven far more of a straight shooter on what he says to the public than what he says to the lackeys. I plan on giving him plenty of rope... He can hang himself or he can hitch up the wagons.

Blogger LES March 01, 2018 2:51 PM  

The NRA is not the executives in D.C. but the millions of members who voluntarily pay for membership.

Trump is not up for election but all of the House of Representatives are.
Trump has the bully pulpit but can only either sign or veto a bill.

A frog in a pot of water will be boiled to death if the heat is increased slowly.

Trump just turned the heat up to max. People are "hopping" mad. Good!

Blogger tublecane March 01, 2018 2:56 PM  

@FP- I wouldmwo call this knee-jerk pessimism on the part of gun people if it were any Republican but Trump (not counting the known Republican gun-grabbers). Because his statements were sufficiently frightening.

But it is Trump, and Trump is Trump. There are radically different rules when it comes to analyzing his statements.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener March 01, 2018 3:06 PM  

@29 I think you're probably right, Nate. Some leftist judge will unhesitatingly declare that it's illegal for Trump to repeal an illegal executive order from Obama.

At some point Trump is going to need to start ignoring these ridiculous judicial fiats if he wants to accomplish anything. He might as well start now.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants March 01, 2018 3:54 PM  

Bake the f'ing ammo, Wal-Mart.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants March 01, 2018 4:14 PM  

Most people who blew a gasket over Trump's comments probably didn't stop to think about what he said at CPAC a few days before about how the right was not motivated and being complacent & perhaps he was looking at how the left has flipped 39 seats since he's been elected, due to the right's lack of diligence and political militance?
What gets right wingers off of their rears and burning up Congressional phone lines and out to vote faster than a vote on immigration?
Gun rights.
I guarantee you the White House switchboard has been on fire for the last 2 weeks, and complete meltdown mode the last few days.
Membership in the NRA, gun/ammo purchases have to be off the charts.
Someone is bound to do an article or two about it soon.
CongressCritters are getting their ears chewed off by their constituents right about now, and left or right, they are scared.
Trump's sons have been gun owners/hunters since they were young boys spending most summers w/their grandparents, so Trump is well aware of normal people owning guns,outside of NYC liberal attitudes.
Btw, if you AREN'T melting down your representatives phone lines constantly with respectful & logical reasons they need to support the 2a, YOU are part of the problem.
Writing letters is actually more impactful than calls. They figure if you take the time to write, it is more important of an issue to you. Continue writing letters! I worked in GOP politics, they take well written letters very seriously.

Blogger Duh-ave March 01, 2018 4:26 PM  

@75 I seem to recall Andrew Jackson having little problem with his ignoring the Supreme Court and challenging them to enforce their ruling themselves.

Blogger James Dixon March 01, 2018 4:34 PM  

> Btw, if you AREN'T melting down your representatives phone lines constantly with respectful & logical reasons they need to support the 2a, YOU are part of the problem.

My representatives have already made it more than clear they don't care what I think. In return, I've make it clear I won't be voting for them.

Blogger NeoNietzsche: March 01, 2018 4:41 PM  

@4 "You're not cucking by pointing out that Trump is being stupid when Trump is being stupid. You're helping the man."

On the other hand, YOU'RE perhaps "being stupid" by waving a flag at a powerful bull? He's NOT being stupid if he is placing his his bet before the cards are all dealt. Remember him going on about how the DACA illegals shouldn't have to go? And yet he seems to have maneuvered magnificently to get Congress to NOT DO A THING -- and look! It's March! The round-ups can begin. (Granted, "will they begin?" is another question, BUT the deadline *went by*, while he sat with a cat-in-cream smile on his face!)

Instead of pointing out 'he's being stupid' -- maybe point out he's doing a thing his base -- and the law and history and America's greatness -- do not support! If there is even the slightest truth to: 'he follows whoever talks with him last' (and doesn't THAT seem like a dumb description of a self-made billionaire?), then BE that last person -- and deal with him straight and with facts! NOT insults!

Blogger RobertT March 01, 2018 4:43 PM  

Yes, he's frustrating, but ...

He's in the process of stealing everything the Dems stand for, dreamers, gun control, except abortion. They're helping him by opposing everything he does. Trumpslide.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener March 01, 2018 4:43 PM  

@70 The danger with a bump stock ban is that it would open the door to regulation of domestically produced non-firearm gun parts. We definitely don't want to go down that road.

Blogger NeoNietzsche: March 01, 2018 4:47 PM  

@23 "The bad side of this is when he has little or no skin in the game, as in the gun-control debate. He is dispassionate, without any personal attachment."

Oh, I really think this is not true of Trump -- Trump CARRIES! He absolutely has (very exposed!) skin in this game! Trump has armed body guards, and provides them to his family members. Trump is not "merely" a billionaire -- he's a billionaire who has had to work 'around' the Mob, and foreign corruption, and U.S corruption his entire life! He is the diametric opposite to naive'! His kids have all grown up with 'danger' around -- and Trump is NOT asleep on this topic.

Blogger NeoNietzsche: March 01, 2018 4:54 PM  

@41 "remember he's a life-long New Yorker and they have the some of the most draconian gun laws"

Writing as a born-and-raised NYer -- how do you explain that I (and MANY NYers I know and love) chafed under the restrictions? Funny, too: I have owned .... "some" guns ... (well, I did till that terrible canoeing accident! What a shame.)

You were raised under some pretty horrific U.S. stupid laws -- have YOU fallen in line? Or have you watched cynically?

Blogger NeoNietzsche: March 01, 2018 4:56 PM  

@42 "His gun control bill of particulars is a crock. "

?? Have you see such a thing? Or have you seen him riffing on stuff of get a rise out of the dhimmicrats in the room?

Blogger NeoNietzsche: March 01, 2018 4:58 PM  

@45 "they'll try to outdo each other to pass new laws and institute new regulations and claim this time it'll be different."

For which there IS ALREADY an Executive Order requiring the deletion of TWO regulations for every ONE they wish to enact... Did you forget about that? It was so long ago....

Blogger NeoNietzsche: March 01, 2018 5:18 PM  

@60 "At what point do you stop debating and walk out, even if there are a few good people in the room? When do you say I'm no longer interested in this organization?"

Or, you can "flip over the tables of the money-changers" by standing up and asking:

WHICH one of you is willing to go to some American patriot's house and try to get his guns from him? Which one of you is willing to ask someone's father, brother, son -- or, today, someone's mother, sister, daughter -- to go to some American patriot's house and try to take his guns?

IF you cannot identify exactly and specifically WHO you would actually send, and whether or not those people actually WOULD go to some American patriot's house and try to take his guns, then you're just blowin' smoke! You are 100% NOT trying to fix the actual problem, you're blowin' smoke to make yourselves FEEL better -- and NOTHING will change!

Do you truly have no idea just how many of the cops and soldiers you believe you could send on this suicidal errand would actually REFUSE your unlawful order (because it's an unlawful order)? Not the political folks like those in the Chief of Police job -- but the work-a-day folks who like and use guns and love the Constitution and OUR country! And if you MAKE it a law, how many of them would refuse, because the Constitution and our GOD-given right to self-defense massively outweighs any political machinations you want to try?

Now, if you want to discuss ACTUAL things that might be done -- and bring into the discussion such important facts as: almost without exception, EVERY SINGLE SCHOOL SHOOTER EVER has been on psychotropic drugs. States such as Utah ALREADY have armed teachers in the classrooms -- and you don't hear of "blood running down the school hallways" as the gun haters always claim!

Do you WANT to make a difference, or just keep spitting in the wind!?

(And THEN walk out! {wink})

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 01, 2018 5:36 PM  

Avalanche, if Trump is talking for distraction while he pulls the rug out from under the Left, that's great. Unfortunately, most folks haven't figured out that what Trump says is a smoke screen rather than a warning to his enemies. Trump is going to lose support he needs if he looks like just another compromising cuck. As I said, he's done the push, and now he needs to do the pull fast before he loses his base.

I keep saying that we need to hold Trump's feet to the fire, not because his heart isn't in the right place, but because that's ammunition that helps him deal with his GOPe enemies. If his enemies see that every time he veers toward them he gets huge push-back from his base, then his enemies know that there is more to Trump than Trump.

Blogger Feather Blade March 01, 2018 5:38 PM  

Zeroh Tollrants wrote:Most people who blew a gasket over Trump's comments probably didn't stop to think about what he said at CPAC a few days before about how the right was not motivated and being complacent


Oh, good. I'm glad I'm not the only one this occurred to.

I have to say, the GEOTUS's trolling is a lot funnier when he's only doing it to Leftists.

Blogger AaMcavoy March 01, 2018 5:43 PM  

Zeroh Tollrants wrote:
Btw, if you AREN'T melting down your representatives phone lines constantly with respectful & logical reasons they need to support the 2a, YOU are part of the problem.

Writing letters is actually more impactful than calls. They figure if you take the time to write, it is more important of an issue to you. Continue writing letters! I worked in GOP politics, they take well written letters very seriously.


Should we call more than once? Should we write the same rep more than once? I apologize for the noob question, as I'm new to "getting involved". Thanks.

Blogger realist March 01, 2018 6:09 PM  

"Hillary wants to abolish, essentially abolish, the Second Amendment. By the way, and if she gets to pick --if she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. Although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is, I don't know." Trump, 2016

I think Trump knows what he's doing.

Blogger Dave March 01, 2018 6:28 PM  

2A topics

http://www.davekopel.org/2A/LawRev/american-revolution-against-british-gun-control.html

https://reason.com/volokh/2017/04/03/firearms-technology-and-the-or

Blogger Timmy3 March 01, 2018 6:39 PM  

Another quit at the Trump Administration. The press has declared full chaos. If there’s a long game, I wish I knew what it is. I learned to just not listen to it. Then again, there’s a trade war too.

OpenID simplytimothy March 01, 2018 7:20 PM  

Create a gun control hoopla, kill NAFTA . Creates NAFTA hoopla, gun control hoopla disappears.

The ole Hoopla-hoopla, gets em every time

Blogger James March 01, 2018 8:43 PM  

When William Tyndale was being burned at the stake in 1536 for so brazenly translating the Bible in to English, his last words were ""Lord, open the king of England's eyes." I always thought that was pointless and crazy, to waste my last words asking the Lord to do something with Henry VIII. He was Henry VIII, for crying out loud. Yet it was only about a year later that an English Bible was published in England bearing the announcement, "“set forth with the king's most gracious license.” Just sayin'.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 01, 2018 9:06 PM  

When Tyndale was burned at the stake for his deliberately and egregiously false and heretical translation of the bible....

FTFY

Blogger Jeff March 01, 2018 9:07 PM  

"Take the firearms first and then go to court." I believe Trump will do just this, if he thinks it's to his advantage.

Blogger Jeff March 01, 2018 9:13 PM  

"Do you truly have no idea just how many of the cops and soldiers you believe you could send on this suicidal errand would actually REFUSE your unlawful order..."

More would obey than disobey. Learn the lesson of Katrina; NOLA police willingly confiscated weapons from law-abiding citizens on order of the mayor.

Blogger James Dixon March 01, 2018 10:16 PM  

> Learn the lesson of Katrina; NOLA police willingly confiscated weapons from law-abiding citizens on order of the mayor.

They confiscated weapons from abandoned homes. That's not quite the same thing.

Blogger Pale Male March 01, 2018 10:30 PM  

Ominous Cowherd wrote:we need to hold Trump's feet to the fire, not because his heart isn't in the right place, but because that's ammunition that helps him deal with his GOPe enemies.
We need to DESTROY his GOPe enemies.  BAMN.

Blogger Bobiojimbo March 01, 2018 11:32 PM  

@1 Here is a perfect, recent example of an FFL practicing their legal right to discriminate:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3NJUYZmxLbs

If you watch the video, it's pretty clear the shop's actions were justified.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 02, 2018 12:05 AM  

Pale Male wrote:Ominous Cowherd wrote:we need to hold Trump's feet to the fire, not because his heart isn't in the right place, but because that's ammunition that helps him deal with his GOPe enemies.

We need to DESTROY his GOPe enemies.  BAMN.


Good idea. Clamoring for Trump to build the wall, drain the swamp and repeal the NFA and GCA can only help with that.

Blogger Shadowjoser March 02, 2018 1:40 AM  

I posted this elsewhere, but I'd like this groups criticism. This is on topic and how I'm trying to address the issue with my friends. Any comment is welcome.
It is interesting when someone bursts my bubble. I was talking with a friend about gun control and she said that she trusted the government over "Joe Blow" to make the right choices about guns.
I was blown away, it is genuinely hard for me to believe that someone would trust the government on anything, much less over their own neighbor.
I believe that with a few exceptions that the people in politics are motivated first by power and prestige and possibly second by making positive change.
Thus we should have maximum transparency and term limits. Public service should be actual service, in other words, we should pay their bills while they are in service and in addition they should get minimum wage. No one should get rich in public service.
I honestly have no idea about how to deal with political adds. Money is an issue for pushing political issues or ideologies, I'd like corporations and specials interest's influence to be minimized. Maybe if you could only donate to a pool that all parties could draw from equally?
I'd like each state to have as much power as possible to try their own solutions, maybe over time we will be able to see what works. I know a lot of people are pointing at Australia right now, but from what I've looked at their level of violence did not change, just the amount done with guns.
We have had automatic and semi-automatic weapons available for over 100 years, why are they a problem now? If weapons have remained mostly the same, what else has changed? People have been killed by cars, knives, and bombs as well, what do we do about those?

This is a complex issue, I'm really uneasy about giving the government more power on any issue, but especially on any issue that gives a greater chance for tyranny. Less firepower in the hands of the citizenship equals a greater chance for the government to become tyrannical. This is true no matter who is in power.

Blogger SciVo March 02, 2018 2:34 AM  

Shadowjoser: There are two things you need to know.

1. The Bill Of Rights was enacted not to grant priveleges, but to protect natural rights. The whole reason why they weren't in the original Constitution and had to be added as amendments was out of fear that in the future, ignorant fools would imagine those were their only rights. (We actually have all rights not explicitly granted to the State.)

2. My ancestors won our freedom to determine our own destinies by being willing to cross a frozen river. At midnight. To murder you. In your sleep. On Christmas.

You're welcome, and your friends need to go back. You can tell what they would do to America just by looking at what they did to their homelands -- and that was with love.

Blogger michimartini March 03, 2018 5:09 AM  

Maleldil is the answer to everything.

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