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Thursday, March 08, 2018

Pedos at the EFF?

At first glance, one might assume that the Electronic Freedom Foundation's opposition to sex trafficking laws is based on principle. But based on their actions, that clearly isn't the case.
The EFF argues repeatedly that the existing law is “not broken” but they are wrong. In fact the EFF itself has used the existing law to argue that the most flagrant promoters of sex trafficking should not be held accountable for their crimes against humanity.

In Government Pressure Shutters Backpage’s Adult Services Section the EFF acknowledges that “Backpage knew that its website was being used to post ads for illegal prostitution and child sex trafficking, and directly edited such ads to make their illegality less conspicuous” but argues that Backpage should not be held accountable for those actions.

The EFF goes on to congratulate themselves on having supported Backpage by filing a brief on their behalf when they were sued by child sex trafficking victims. The EFF published an article about that case entitled Court Finds That Section 230 Shields Website From Child Trafficking Claims.

The legislation that the EFF is fighting against is needed specifically because the existing law shields the most egregious child sex traffickers from liability for their crimes and prevents children who have been enslaved and raped from seeking damages against those who have made millions from their exploitation.

The EFF knows this all to well because they have been in court arguing on the behalf of criminal enterprises like Backpage that the existing law gives them immunity.
And, let's face it, for all its merits, the EFF does have more than a few of those obese bearded weirdos who look as if they just might have a small body or two stashed in the cellar.

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61 Comments:

Blogger The Kurgan March 08, 2018 7:30 AM  

I really do need to become Emperor-Pope-Doge soon.
The resulting Holy Inquisition needs to happen soon and include much burnings at the stake.
Pedophiles should be able to be legally hunted down like rabid dogs wherever they exist.
More importantly, the civilising effect of publically executing them have been ignored for far too long.

Blogger Rick March 08, 2018 7:36 AM  

OT (but never really):
I want to plant my flag early:
I think Snowden may be Q

Blogger Nate March 08, 2018 7:37 AM  

whoa whoa whoa... These are some pretty serious accusations getting tossed around like they are simply facts. Backpage was working with authorities and lots of law enforcement believed Backpage was a very useful tool in busting these people. There is a lot more to this than "pedos used backpage and backpage tried to hide it."

Blogger Shimshon March 08, 2018 7:38 AM  

I have an old friend from college. He was definitely a proto-SJW. Back then, he really did seem interested in toppling the system. Reasonably intelligent, but the bottom line is he's just an artist, with a limited stylistic range.

He has worked for the EFF for many years. Beyond his buying into every single SJW trope, I always found it odd that he takes unusual pleasure in "debunking" so-called conspiracy theories. And his two favorites by far are 9/11 and Kennedy. Way out of proportion to what I would assume be normal, even for SJWs (he's thin and beardless and could blend in, but he does share that body-stashing look).

Q hinted that the EFF isn't what it seems and may be Clown-connected. I can't take anything at face value anymore.

Blogger Lazarus March 08, 2018 7:41 AM  

@2

Don't do that.

Blogger VD March 08, 2018 7:46 AM  

These are some pretty serious accusations getting tossed around like they are simply facts.

First, I haven't made a single accusation. Second, which of these nominal facts do you which to take specific exception, and on what basis?

Blogger Shimshon March 08, 2018 7:48 AM  

I should add, he basically portrays himself as an expert in all relevant subjects (architecture, engineering, weapons ballistics, and so forth) with an extremely high confidence. It's eerie how effective he is. Almost like, dare I say it, a sort of crisis actor.

Blogger JACIII March 08, 2018 7:48 AM  

(((EFF))) ?? It would make sense given ACLU, SPLC, PP, etc.

Blogger Nate March 08, 2018 8:25 AM  

"First, I haven't made a single accusation. Second, which of these nominal facts do you which to take specific exception, and on what basis?"

well I'm not accusing you yourself of anything at all. You're simply posting an article and commenting on it. The problem I have is within the article itself. This specifically:

“Backpage knew that its website was being used to post ads for illegal prostitution and child sex trafficking, and directly edited such ads to make their illegality less conspicuous”

The federal court system certainly didn't find that to be the case. They ruled content to be "user generated" and they dismissed the claim that backpage was an information provider.

Now the statement may be factually true in that EFF may have conceded such claims about backpage. But EFF is not backpage.

i have always thought the authorities were wrong to go after Backpage... largely because rather than trying to shut it down... the FBI should have been practically running it. I mean that's how they "investigate" terror plots right? they setup stings. A US marshal told me the same thing. But of course he hates the FBI and is convinced they aren't even a law enforcement agency anymore.

there has been this long running assertion that Backpage was this huge evil on the internet that must be purged and I've long thought the same thing the courts decided. its spectacularly stupid to hold back page liable for user created content.. and going down that road takes you no where good.

I have no issue with casting a wary eye at the EFF. But the characterization that backpage was editing pedo ads to make them less obviously pedo ads is simply misleading if not out right false. Backpage had a list of words that automatically got your ad deleted if you included them. They briefly altered their policy simply to delete the word if it was in the ad. This policy effected all ads. In addition they had people specifically looking for anything that suggested a child was involved and deleting those ads entirely.

This has been Backpage's story and they've held that line before congress with witness after witness.

Backpage and sites like it should be seen by law enforcement as a huge hunting ground. but instead... they'd rather shut them down... because shutting them down is very visible... but it does nothing to really effect the child sex trafficking.

well hell... maybe that is why they want backpage shut down. maybe they don't like the attention it brings to their favorite passtime.

Blogger Nate March 08, 2018 8:31 AM  

and if one should wonder why I appear to be carrying water for Backpage... i would note that I am a supporter of Infogalactic... and as such I am extremely wary of any site being sued or charged over user-generated content.

Blogger VD March 08, 2018 8:55 AM  

Now the statement may be factually true in that EFF may have conceded such claims about backpage. But EFF is not backpage.

I have no idea. But in that case, you would have to take it up with EFF and not with whoever wrote the piece.

Blogger VD March 08, 2018 8:55 AM  

well hell... maybe that is why they want backpage shut down. maybe they don't like the attention it brings to their favorite passtime.

(nods)

Blogger Nate March 08, 2018 9:05 AM  

'I have no idea. But in that case, you would have to take it up with EFF and not with whoever wrote the piece.'

agreed. I suppose my issue is that if someone doesn't know anything about the backpage cases and investigations an congressional testimony... they read this article and just take it for granted that backpage did what EFF conceded they did.

in any case involving user-generated content I think its a wise policy to draw a hardline and hold it. its a hill to fight and die on.

Blogger James Dixon March 08, 2018 9:06 AM  

I need to review these links in depth, but I won't have time till this weekend. However, I do see one problem with his argument:

"Make it clear that Federal law does not preempt State criminal and civil law when it comes to sex trafficking (i.e. if someone is charged with sex trafficking by a State they cannot claim as a defense that they were acting in accordance with Federal law)."

Actually Federal law should override state law in this case. Given the nature of the Internet anyone anywhere can view your site. Complying with the laws in all 50 states, some of which will conflict, is a nightmare no one can possibly deal with. Even if we limit it to the state the site is hosted in, if you host your site with something like AWS, you won't even necessarily know which state or states that would be. When dealing with a service which can cross any and all state lines this way, Federal law should be the applicable law.

Blogger Dr. Φ March 08, 2018 9:08 AM  

First, it's Electronic Frontier Foundation.

Second . . .

The legislation that the EFF is fighting against is needed specifically because the existing law shields the most egregious child sex traffickers from liability for their crimes and prevents children who have been enslaved and raped from seeking damages against those who have made millions from their exploitation.

Alternatively, it prevents people, regretting their early life choices, from cashing in from the deepest pockets available. I have yet to read a single Backpage story where a girl was kidnapped off the streets, and to the extent they were subsequently manipulated with drugs and threats, those are the fault of the pimps, not Backpage.

Blogger Meimou March 08, 2018 9:24 AM  

Shimshon
I have an old friend from college. He was definitely a proto-SJW. Back then, he really did seem interested in toppling the system. Reasonably intelligent, but the bottom line is he's just an artist, with a limited stylistic range.

He has worked for the EFF for many years. Beyond his buying into every single SJW trope, I always found it odd that he takes unusual pleasure in "debunking" so-called conspiracy theories. And his two favorites by far are 9/11 and Kennedy. Way out of proportion to what I would assume be normal, even for SJWs (he's thin and beardless and could blend in, but he does share that body-stashing look).


Ask this friend how a fire pulverized the concrete and steel of the twin towers in mid air. If he denies that's what happened point out the lateral ejections.

He won't give ground, these skepti bunkies support the official narrative for psychological reasons. The best way to shut them up (at least over the internet) is to point it out to them that they live to defend the ON.

Blogger Shimshon March 08, 2018 9:38 AM  

Meimou, Vox's Three Laws of SJW helped me understand why he would never, even, in even the smallest way, concede even the slightest bit of ground on anything.

It's especially amusing and odd because his only training and background and interest is as an artist. I've known him since he was in high school. He can't point to any technical bent or interest at all, ever, or any serious aptitude for technical subjects. But he speaks as if he's Mr. PhD.

Blogger AnvilTiger March 08, 2018 9:43 AM  

A big problem though is if online content providers are held responsible for content provided by others, this will eventually be used to shut down anyone who provides content that is deemed illegal by governments. In this specific case, as other posters have noted, Backpage did make an effort to prevent any postings that appeared to be related to sex trafficking of minors. (Also problematic is that in general sex providers prefer offering services online as it is safer than street walking.)

In any case, Backpage like Craigslist before them, was targeted to create justification for Google/Facebook/Twitter etc. targeting content that they don't like. GFT uses the fact that Backpage and Craigslist were prosecuted as justification for their self censorship of posters.

I suspect the real reason for the government prosecutions of Backpage and Craigslist was to establish case law that will require online content providers to censor posters, to avoid government prosecution. In other words, turning the whole Internet into an environment similar to China, where all content is monitored and censored. They will do this claiming it is "for the children".

Blogger August March 08, 2018 9:55 AM  

I remember a while back, listening to one of these anti-'sex trafficking' activists and realizing they would convert a story about a forty year old hooker addicted to meth into a story about some innocent waif who is probably underage.

They absolutely refuse to take the woman's behavior into account, so I never know what to make of these stories. Most likely the politicians get their hookers off of Instagram now, so they don't care about Backpage anymore.

Blogger Aeoli March 08, 2018 10:11 AM  

Except for the hard line, I'm with Nate on this one.

Blogger Aeoli March 08, 2018 10:16 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Aeoli March 08, 2018 10:16 AM  

And Vox, suggesting that you've made no accusations in a post titled "Pedos at the EFF?" is absurd.

Blogger Avalanche March 08, 2018 10:17 AM  

OT, but can this be true?!?!

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/03/08/senator-jeff-sessions-confirms-prior-appointment-of-doj-prosecutor-to-parallel-ig-horowitz-not-a-special-counsel

Blogger Lazarus March 08, 2018 10:26 AM  

I can't take anything at face value anymore.

Psy-Op syndrome. Time for a break.

Blogger Nate March 08, 2018 10:28 AM  

"And Vox, suggesting that you've made no accusations in a post titled "Pedos at the EFF?" is absurd."

Again... to my eye Vox is simply linking an article and commenting on it. Medium is the on making the accusation. Vox's use of the question mark clears him.

Blogger Nate March 08, 2018 10:29 AM  

also... Irish Coffee is good.

Blogger Daniel Paul Grech Pereira March 08, 2018 10:30 AM  

Now that I am a grown man, I realise that the highly intelligent pedos must have enslaved children to sodomise at their leisure. But they don't stay children for long, so there must also be a system to replenish their harems. Makes me sick.

Blogger Nate March 08, 2018 10:42 AM  

"OT, but can this be true?!?!"

its fascinating to me that you people bend over backwards to never question The Trump...

But you never fail to underestimate the Grand Inquisitor.

The Grand Inquisitor is not only not incompetent... he is every bit the knife fighter Trump expected him to be.

Watch and learn grasshoppa.

Blogger Aeoli March 08, 2018 10:50 AM  

also... Irish Coffee is good.

...Dammit, you are actually pretty smart.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 08, 2018 10:58 AM  

James Dixon wrote:Actually Federal law should override state law ...

If we're talking should, there is no constitutional justification for any such Federal laws. The constitution authorizes something like three dozen specific tasks for the Federal government, and regulating porn and prostitutes aren't on the list.

Unless the constitution specifically gives a power to the Feds, the several states are on their own. Even if we don't like that.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 08, 2018 11:07 AM  

Nate wrote:The Grand Inquisitor is not only not incompetent... he is every bit the knife fighter Trump expected him to be.

I've said several times that Trump of all people wouldn't hesitate to say ``you're fired'' to anyone who was under-performing. Loud squealing about what a worthless wuss Sessions is serves a purpose: it shows both Trump and our enemies that there is appetite for blood.

We don't hold Trump's feet to the fire because he doesn't want to deliver: we do it because it helps him burn our enemies.

Blogger VD March 08, 2018 11:33 AM  

And Vox, suggesting that you've made no accusations in a post titled "Pedos at the EFF?" is absurd.

Aeoli, you really need to understand that your ability to comprehend the niceties of neurotypical communication is limited and stop trying to correct normal people. What you think is absurd is nothing less than the absolute and unvarnished truth.

I did not accuse anyone of anything. I did not even assert anything. I do not pretend to know that there are pedos at the EFF, because I do not know. Hence the question mark.

Blogger Jack Amok March 08, 2018 11:43 AM  

The Grand Inquisitor is not only not incompetent... he is every bit the knife fighter Trump expected him to be.

I used to be harsh on Sessions, but I've reversed myself and am waiting patiently. However, alacrity has some value and it would be really nice to see some of it. Certainly he needs his ducks in a row, but I've seen way too many failures come from taking to damn long to deliver and being overtaken by events.

Blogger Nate March 08, 2018 11:48 AM  

'Certainly he needs his ducks in a row, but I've seen way too many failures come from taking to damn long to deliver and being overtaken by events. '

He has said twice in interviews that he has already appointed an independent investigator to look into FISA and the FBI. That goes all the way back to august of 2017. Is it really his fault that no one bothered to notice what he said?

Blogger Jack Amok March 08, 2018 11:50 AM  

Oh, but on the subject of electronic pedos, you guys heard about Facebook's little trial balloon, right?

"Facebook says that it made a mistake after it asked users in a poll if it should allow child predators to ask children for sexual photos on its platform."

Blogger Jack Amok March 08, 2018 11:56 AM  

Is it really his fault that no one bothered to notice what he said?

People will notice when he says "You're indicted!"

Like I said, I'm resigned to being patient and Sessions certainly has more experience with investigations, prosecutions and swamp creature defense mechanisms that I do.

The nagging doubt though is tempos are accelerating, politically, culturally, socially. I just hope he's not operating on yesterday's cadence.

Blogger Nate March 08, 2018 12:01 PM  

'People will notice when he says "You're indicted!" '

and I don't think its coincidence that the lawsuit against California... this interview and this info coming out... and the release of the Fast and Furious docs are a coincidence.

I think what we are seeing is that a ton of quiet ground work has been done... and now its paying off.

Blogger Jack Amok March 08, 2018 12:12 PM  

I think what we are seeing is that a ton of quiet ground work has been done... and now its paying off.

I hope it pays off gloriously. And 'knife fight' is right, the Marquess of Queensbury retired when Obama got elected. We need more than scandal, we need scalps and swamp creatures fleeing town never to come back when the dust settles.

Blogger James Dixon March 08, 2018 12:14 PM  

> If we're talking should, there is no constitutional justification for any such Federal laws.

For commercial sites, the interstate commerce clause definitely applies. For non-commercial sites, you argument may be correct.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 March 08, 2018 12:14 PM  

How many organizations are infected with these demons?

After reading The Last Closet halfway, I'm convinced we should just burn Berkeley to the ground on principle alone.

Blogger James Dixon March 08, 2018 12:17 PM  

> I think what we are seeing is that a ton of quiet ground work has been done... and now its paying off.

I hope you're right, Nate. My only grounds for being hopeful is that Sessions is obviously doing what Trump wants or he would have been fired already. And I guarantee that they have at least weekly briefings where the details are discussed.

OpenID Dave March 08, 2018 12:43 PM  

Why doesn't Backpage just shut down and relocate outside US jurisdiction? It's not like you need much programming skill, computing power or network bandwidth to run a Craigslist clone. The hard part is making yourself the Schelling point between the people selling sex and the people buying it.

Blogger Shimshon March 08, 2018 12:54 PM  

The Anonymous Conservative's latest post is titled "How prolific are pedophilic urges." It's pretty dark.

Blogger vanderleun March 08, 2018 12:59 PM  

I was Employee Number 3 of the EFF back when it began in the early 1990s with Mitch Kapor and Mike Godwin in the Joh Perry Barlow era. Back then it had correct ideals and was founded to MAKE CERTAIN that Constitutional protections were extended to cyberspace.

Worked well for a time and then Kapor and Barlow were sucked into the Washington DC swamp by some character named Jerry something who was being booted out of the ACLU. Jerry sucked Mitch off for much money before Mitch tumbled to the fact that smart as he was Jerry was rolling him.

But since that time Kapor has become fully converged and now runs some sort of female empowerment SJW chunklet . Sad really.

Once upon a time he had nice ideals. Now he's just sorta cucked even if he "means well."

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 08, 2018 1:25 PM  

James Dixon wrote:For commercial sites, the interstate commerce clause definitely applies.

The commerce clause as legislated by the judiciary applies to everything everywhere always. The commerce clause as written by the founders definitely doesn't apply. Remember, we're talking should, not is.

Blogger James Dixon March 08, 2018 1:46 PM  

> The commerce clause as written by the founders definitely doesn't apply.

Any commercial transaction that crosses state lines falls under the commerce clause, even as the founders envisioned it. The exact text is "To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;".

Blogger Nate73 March 08, 2018 1:56 PM  

I heard a story one time that Richard Stallman spent an entire dinner praising the beauty of the waitress who was serving them. Before I would have thought that kind of attention from an omega would be flattering to women - now I wonder if it's more terror-inducing than not?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 08, 2018 2:42 PM  

James Dixon wrote:The exact text is "To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, ...

Did they have any intent beyond precluding one state putting tariffs on another's products? I'm pretty sure that forcing all state's laws into conformity, or simply sweeping them away, was never part of the intent.

Blogger James Dixon March 08, 2018 3:36 PM  

> Did they have any intent beyond precluding one state putting tariffs on another's products

I'm pretty sure they wanted to both preclude that and, in the event regulation became necessary, ensure that it would be uniform for the entire country.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 08, 2018 4:14 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 08, 2018 4:15 PM  

Prostitution is, of its nature, local. The Federal govt has no legitimate interest in prostitution at all. It is entirely a matter for states and localities. The physical location of the advertisin webserver has no bearing on the matter. By selling advertising locally, Backpage create a nexus, rendering them subject to local regulation and crimunal enforcement.

A proper understanding of Federalism requires making Backpage subject to local control.

Blogger Feather Blade March 08, 2018 4:59 PM  

Nate73 wrote:Before I would have thought that kind of attention from an omega would be flattering to women - now I wonder if it's more terror-inducing than not?

Excessive compliments are most likely to make a woman think that the compliment-giver is trying to scam her.

A few compliments are nice, and flattering, and a girl can pretend that they're completely sincere.

Constant compliments, especially ones that all praise the same object or aspect, and a girl starts to think "Well, that's great that it pleases you so much, but what are you buttering me up for and how much is it going to cost me?"

Blogger James Dixon March 08, 2018 5:09 PM  

> By selling advertising locally, Backpage create a nexus, rendering them subject to local regulation and crimunal enforcement.

If it can be argued the product could not possibly be for interstate use, then yes. Now, if a city is on a state border, that's probably not a safe argument to make.

That said, there were real physical crimes committed, and the advertising probably rendered them an accessory in those crimes (knowingly or not), no matter the location. The issue then becomes which jurisdiction is appropriate.

Blogger Were-Puppy March 08, 2018 8:53 PM  

@1 The Kurgan
I really do need to become Emperor-Pope-Doge soon.
The resulting Holy Inquisition needs to happen soon and include much burnings at the stake.
Pedophiles should be able to be legally hunted down like rabid dogs wherever they exist.
More importantly, the civilising effect of publically executing them have been ignored for far too long.
---

You've got my vote

Blogger Were-Puppy March 08, 2018 8:54 PM  

@2 Rick
OT (but never really):
I want to plant my flag early:
I think Snowden may be Q
---

You seriously don't think Q is a group of people?

Blogger Jack Amok March 08, 2018 11:10 PM  

By selling advertising locally, Backpage create a nexus, rendering them subject to local regulation and crimunal enforcement.

Since the complaint against Backpage has to do with sex trafficking, potentially of underage kids, quite possibly across state lines, it could probably be categorized as part of the Lindbergh Law. Whether you think that law is constitutional or not is another question. I do believe it was justified under the Commerce clause.

As far as using Federal law to prevent states from creating an un-navigable patchwork of laws around hosting internet content, I think a better approach than Interstate commerce would be general civil rights laws, making it clear that one State may not prosecute someone for behavior that takes place entirely in another State. For instance, CA couldn't criminalize raising non-free-range chickens and then arrest a Texan chicken farmer while he was on vacation at Disneyland. Then you simply hold that - regardless of where servers or switches may be, since few people really know where they are anyway - the "behavior" takes place at the location the person engaging in it is. If I post stuff sitting at home in the State of Washington, it doesn't matter where I post it to, I'm subject to the laws of the State of Washington. Another state trying to prosecute me for it is violating my civil rights.

I think that's a whole lot more coherent than claiming I'm engaged in interstate commerce posting this comment.

Blogger GithYankee March 09, 2018 7:20 AM  

Looking through their staff directory, it looks like a Burger King kids club SJW-type organization. If I were to assemble a group of people who would defend pedophiles and terrorists, while censoring Nationalists, it would be this group. They must raise a lot of "non-profit" money to have all those workers.
I'm assuming its just another tentacle in the philanthropy as genocide complex.

Blogger James Dixon March 09, 2018 11:57 AM  

> I think that's a whole lot more coherent than claiming I'm engaged in interstate commerce posting this comment.

It is, but good luck getting anywhere with it. States always try to maximize their own power. It's not just the federal government that has that problem.

Blogger Jack Amok March 09, 2018 12:54 PM  

It is, but good luck getting anywhere with it. States always try to maximize their own power. It's not just the federal government that has that problem.

Part of our governance problem is we lost sight of competing power centers jealously holding each other in check. The Feds and the States should be kicking each other around - the more they do that, the less they're kicking us around.

But having said that, the biggest lack of kicking around right now is the judiciary. They need some serious, extended ass-kicking.

Blogger Nate March 09, 2018 8:07 PM  

"Since the complaint against Backpage has to do with sex trafficking, potentially of underage kids, quite possibly across state lines, it could probably be categorized as part of the Lindbergh Law. "

except that there was never one shred of evidence produced to support that claim

OpenID paulmurray March 10, 2018 4:43 AM  

"Sex Trafficking" is mostly a moral panic, like satanic ritual abuse.

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