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Friday, March 02, 2018

You don't say

A Hillary staffer attends CPAC:
‘Make sure to check in with us!” one friend told me. “Try not to get killed,” another warned. I wasn’t off to a war zone or a spy mission in Moscow. I was riding a bus from New York to Washington to attend the Conservative Political Action Conference.

To be sure, I’m a tiny, talkative South Asian woman who spent four months on Hillary Clinton’s 2016 campaign staff. I wasn’t exactly in my element surrounded by people in “Make America Great Again” hats chanting “Lock her up! Lock her up!“ But there was more to CPAC than that....

I found myself ... nodding my head in agreement with parts of Ben Shapiro’s speech.
Imagine that.

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53 Comments:

Blogger Nate73 March 02, 2018 1:09 PM  

I heard a rumor Molyneux was going to speak at Cpac, were there any speakers disinvited again this year like Milo was before?

Blogger Desdichado March 02, 2018 1:16 PM  

I don't think that was the message that the article was intending to get across. Heh.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother March 02, 2018 1:22 PM  

UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES

Blogger Looking Glass March 02, 2018 1:26 PM  

The Littlest Chickenhawk is currently doing the freak out over the first round of Tariffs. So this article isn't surprising.

Blogger NeoNietzsche: March 02, 2018 1:31 PM  

OT: Is it okay to ask this here? I'm exercising my barely formed rhetoric muscles: does this seem like reasonably good advice for using rhetoric?

In msg 3 here http://www.unz.com/anapolitano/in-defense-of-the-right-to-keep-and-bear-arms a fellow(?) was trying to suggest:

... We need to TAKE BACK the argument.
When the antis blame the firearm for the actions of a criminal, state that: "a firearm is an inanimate object, subject only to the intent of the user. Firearms ARE used to preserve life and make a 90 lb. woman equal to a 200 lb. criminal".
When the antis attempt to justify their "gun free zones" counter their misguided argument with "you mean, criminal safety zones" or "victim disarmament zones".
State that "we protect our money, banks, politicians and celebrities, buildings and facilities with PEOPLE WITH GUNS, but protect our children with "gun-free zone" signs"”.
When the antis criticize AR-15s in general, counter with: "you mean the most popular rifle of the day, use able by even the smallest, weakest person as a means of self-defense. Besides, AR-15s are FUN to shoot". Offer to take them to the range and supply them with an AR-15, ammunition and range time. I have made many converts this way. ...

{continued...}

Blogger NeoNietzsche: March 02, 2018 1:32 PM  

{continued}
Here, http://www.unz.com/anapolitano/in-defense-of-the-right-to-keep-and-bear-arms/#comment-2226961
I answered with:

Nope. Won't work. Can't work! You're trying to reason people out of a feeling! Read Chapter 10 of Vox Day's (exceedingly excellent and educational) book: SJWs Always Lie and learn the difference between dialectic and rhetoric and how and when to use each. You cannot reach someone who is basing their views, words, suggestions on their emotional views by giving them facts -- FACTS do not answer their feelings!

{continued}
Dr Peter Sandman, in his risk communication teachings, suggested this, (my annotations):
Compassion vs. dispassion. When dealing with a situation, there comes a point where you must stop dealing with the hazard (facts, dialectic) and work with outrage (feelings, rhetoric). There's a common misconception that engineers and scientists and technologists can't do it -- they retreat further into the tech specs, rather than deal with the emotionalism. But if an engineer's 18-yr-old daughter comes home in tears from college because she broke up with her boyfriend, the engineer doesn't say "now, honey, you must realize that the median teenager has an average of 3.7 breakups over the 4 years of college attendance."

Teach your engineers when (and how) to address outrage, not just by throwing more technobabble at the outrage.


And that "average # of breakups" (facts, dialectic) is exactly how NRA, GOA, and most gun owners and 2nd Amendment defenders try to reach our emotionally charged (feelings, rhetoric) opponents! (And I did too, before I read Vox Day's book: Facts are not persuasive to folks in the grip of their emotions.) You cannot successfully answer rhetoric-speakers with dialectic; they can't hear it. Instead of trying to "teach them the truth"; you must answer their rhetoric with rhetoric in return. That our rhetoric is based in the truth makes it easier for us to wince and stop trying to answer our opponents with logic and rational explanations, and deal with them where they are: emotionally overwrought and desperate.
{continued}

Blogger NeoNietzsche: March 02, 2018 1:32 PM  

{continued}
Since they are focused on (their emotional reaction to) the fear (and deaths) of the children in a gun-free shooting gallery, you must answer them with two feeling-linked points: "yes, we agree: this is horrible, and we (gun owners) are AS horrified as you are; maybe more so because we know effective ways to lessen and even prevent these horrific events!" (Let them know that we, too, are outraged -- anything less leaves us seeming (to "feelers") crass and unfeeling! Yes, that's partly dialectic but it aligns with their primary emotions: you're aligning yourself with their direction, rather than trying to stand against them.)

Then, try to show them that their desire to do-something-do-anything (effective or not) leaves the children frantically trying to hide under desks and in schoolroom closets -- and knowing their teachers (adult so-called protectors) cannot do anything to actually protect them! All the children are relying on their teachers; and seeing their teachers terrified and frantic, trying to protect them -- some of them even dying lying on top of the children they were trying to protect -- but nearly completely, close to 100%, UNABLE to -- from the madman who chose to attack the unprotected shooting gallery! (Yes, the brave and amazing gym teacher was able to protect the painfully few children he put his own body over -- but that was SHEER LUCK, nothing even close to "effectively protecting our children"! Once he was dead, the terrified children under him were just as endangered as they were before he gave up his life! Not effective! Braver than hell, a true hero -- but NOT effective for most of the children who died!) (Again; rhetoric, based in truth.)

(Try to) Get your opponent's feelings to shift from only the children who died to the much larger number who now realize that (unarmed) adults cannot protect them; who have found out that lying on the floor under a desk or stuffed into a closet with other terrified children -- and maybe a terrified adult or two -- is a proof (way too young) that there is no such thing as unarmed protection from a gunman and the world is a dangerous place.

Blogger Looking Glass March 02, 2018 1:33 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Dave March 02, 2018 1:33 PM  

“Try not to get killed,”

Much higher odds of that occurring as a result of being close to Hillary, than mingling with the bowties.

Blogger Looking Glass March 02, 2018 1:37 PM  

Deleted my first response, NeoNietzsche, because you were mid-cycle on your posts.

Powerful rhetoric takes understanding the nature of the issue at hand, not the facts about the issue. i.e. when you're dealing with an emotional Woman, it's the emotions that are the issue. (Some nice cross-application there.)

Which is to say, "School Shooting? We MUST repeal Joe Biden's Murder Rooms law. Our children die because of Joe Biden's evil.".

Because the law makes Murder Rooms.

Blogger VD March 02, 2018 1:43 PM  

Since they are focused on (their emotional reaction to) the fear (and deaths) of the children in a gun-free shooting gallery, you must answer them with two feeling-linked points: "yes, we agree: this is horrible, and we (gun owners) are AS horrified as you are; maybe more so because we know effective ways to lessen and even prevent these horrific events!" (Let them know that we, too, are outraged -- anything less leaves us seeming (to "feelers") crass and unfeeling! Yes, that's partly dialectic but it aligns with their primary emotions: you're aligning yourself with their direction, rather than trying to stand against them.)

No. This is also incorrect. I will explain why in a future post. You're still trying to dialectic away the rhetoric.

Blogger Damn Crackers March 02, 2018 2:11 PM  

Not sure if this is Aristotelian rhetoric out of the quadrivium, but you should answer thusly:

"The Disciples carried swords. Fuck off!"

Blogger OGRE March 02, 2018 2:27 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Desdichado March 02, 2018 2:30 PM  

NeoNietzsche—we don't have a category for pseudo-rhetoric, but that's what you're doing. I'd just tell anyone freaking out about guns and OMG the chillins! that I'll get them a glass of warm milk and a blankie. When they can calm down and talk like adults, maybe we can see if there's anything to their paranoid emotional diarrhea.

As they get more flustered, start making fun of their sexual obsession with James Holmes and Dylan Roof, and tell them to stop taking their side by creating target rich environments.

Then when that's played out simply say, "No, but seriously. You're a Fake American and a traitor. Shut up."

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener March 02, 2018 2:42 PM  

You're still trying to dialectic away the rhetoric.

I struggle with this too. In retrospect, the education I received regarding persuasive writing was pitiful. My attempts at rhetorical responses would look like this...

"If you try to take my guns, I will kill you." (For the most rabid antis.)

"When vibrants rape, kill, and eat your family, at least you can take comfort in the fact that they won't be using legally purchased guns."

"Sure the police failed to stop the shooter more than 40 times. But I'm sure they'll protect YOU."

"Why isn't there a sign on your front lawn saying your house is a gun free zone?"

Blogger Long Live The West March 02, 2018 2:48 PM  

Rat poison is 90+ percent wholesome food. Only a very small amount of poison is needed to kill the host.

Ideology and Tradition are no different. Many are drawn to the constructive ideas of Western ideology and tradition. The deceivers offer all the 'wholesome ideas' of the West. But ingrained within many of their theologies are the seeds of destruction.

All it takes is one foot in the door to undermine the entire principal of a matter. After that... well, if that one thing is okay, surely everything else is too. The poison spreads, and soon all that's left is a decaying corpse.

There can be no compromise in the family, church, or government. The thing that people like Shapiro miss (On purpose or not) is that when you ignore one law for the sake of 'convenience', 'love', 'choice', etc... you have publicly stated that you do not believe in the foundations holding up all other beliefs. People see you as a hypocrite, and rightly so.

The house collapses shortly after.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine March 02, 2018 2:52 PM  

Satanists unite!

...Oh, I wasn't supposed to say that out loud?

SATANISTS UNITE!

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer March 02, 2018 3:02 PM  

We seem to be seeing a lot of phoney-baloney bi-partisanship lately.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 02, 2018 3:05 PM  

Dyslexics untie! You have nothing to lose but your chaims!

Blogger Looking Glass March 02, 2018 3:19 PM  

@18 Ron Winkleheimer

NAFTA. It's the money spigot for the UniParty. Once that goes, it'll shatter much of the UniParty into a huge collection of factions.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 02, 2018 3:19 PM  

The correct rhetorical response is "WHY DO YOU WANT WOMEN TO GET RAPED???"
If it's a woman, that can be followed with "DO YOU HAVE SOME SICK RAPE FANTASY?" If a man, "DO YOU WANT WOMEN UNARMED SO YOU CAN RAPE THEM?"

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein March 02, 2018 3:26 PM  

Dave wrote:“Try not to get killed,”

Much higher odds of that occurring as a result of being close to Hillary, than mingling with the bowties.


This.
Arkancide is a *thing*.
CPACide...not so much.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine March 02, 2018 3:27 PM  

"Dyslexics untie! You have nothing to lose but your chaims!"

Well played.

Blogger AnvilTiger March 02, 2018 3:32 PM  

Or use the insane anti argument: "Yes I agree we should ban all guns without exception, and apply the death penalty to anyone in possession of a gun, no exception". And leave it there. If they fall silent, walk away. But if they respond that oh no the police and military need guns, just repeat your statement. Let them start arguing why SOME PEOPLE should have guns, and just keep repeating your statement. It's fun.

Blogger freddie_mac March 02, 2018 3:32 PM  

@16 Long Live the West
when you ignore one law for the sake of 'convenience', 'love', 'choice', etc... you have publicly stated that you do not believe in the foundations holding up all other beliefs.

This immediately made me think about how the concept of mercy has been eroded. Mercy, as I understand it, is when you waive a justifiable punishment out of compassion (Have mercy on a poor, miserable sinner).

One act of compassion should not negate the weight of the punishment or law; rather the desire for mercy reflects the seriousness of the punishment in question. Ignoring a punishment/law entirely renders it weightless and toothless because anyone who runs afoul of it has no fear that it will be enforced.

Blogger Thucydides March 02, 2018 3:34 PM  

Funny how exiting the bubble can get you red pilled. I hope there are many opportunities to lure these people out of the bubble and expose them to reality.

Blogger Peaceful Poster March 02, 2018 3:40 PM  

Try not to get killed

When is SJWAP coming out?

Blogger SciVo March 02, 2018 3:45 PM  

Gun control is rape culture.

Blogger Dave March 02, 2018 3:51 PM  

Unintended consequences:

Just 13 Delta passengers bought tickets using NRA discount that cost airline a $40 million Georgia tax break. That’s $3 million per ticket.

https://twitter.com/USATODAY/status/969656713358974976

Blogger Jack Amok March 02, 2018 3:51 PM  

You're still trying to dialectic away the rhetoric.

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that our rhetoric at some point with these people has to become some version of "there, there, don't worry your pretty little head, we'll take care of you. Certainly better than those limp-wristed losers you've been hanging out with." Clearly not those exact words, but the sentiment.

The people who flip out and succumb to anti-gun rhetoric are really incapable of actually thinking about the issue and unlikely to make any sort of good decision about the issue. And I don't really think most of them even want to make decisions. That's why they march and "raise awareness." They're making a very clear statement that something is making them unhappy and they would like a big, strong man to come along and solve the problem for them.

Blogger CM March 02, 2018 4:01 PM  

One act of compassion should not negate the weight of the punishment or law;

I kinda want a run down on biblical compassion. I once got into an argument with a peanut allergy mom who wanted the school to ban peanuts. I told her that she isn't entitled to other's compassion.

Went over like a lead balloon.

But parents of sickly kids think they are owed other's compassion.

Blogger Looking Glass March 02, 2018 4:24 PM  

@31 CM

Mother of a child with a disability. It's got nothing to do with the topic. She feels deep shame that her child has an issue. Especially if she has only 1 or 2. She basically has "all of her eggs in one basket" and is acting to protect it. There's no Reason that'll work on the topic directly.

If it comes back up, suggest she might want to home-school the child until they're older and generally better able to avoid the issue directly. "Safer, better education" might work.

Blogger Looking Glass March 02, 2018 4:25 PM  

So much of Rhetoric is addressing the both the issue & solution to the topic not actually being discussed. It's actually quite annoying.

Blogger Ivaneus March 02, 2018 4:29 PM  

So you're saying that when a fake American goes somewhere to listen to a Fake American they find common ground with the Fake American?

Color me shocked.

Blogger pyrrhus March 02, 2018 4:39 PM  

@29 That's 40 million per year that Delta is tossing for the benefit of virtue signaling. After a while, that could add up to real money...If I were a shareholder, I would want both the CEO and Board fired, for starters...

Blogger pyrrhus March 02, 2018 4:43 PM  

‘Make sure to check in with us!” one friend told me. “Try not to get killed,” another warned.

Like Seth Rich?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 02, 2018 4:52 PM  

Way off topic, I am contibuting $10 per month to Infogalactic, and want to put that on another card. Does anyone know a way I can edit that subscription?

Blogger Patrick Kelly March 02, 2018 4:57 PM  

"Yes I agree we should ban all guns without exception, and apply the death penalty to anyone in possession of a gun, no exception"

One version of that I use for the "hold gun owners accountable for the crimes of others using their stolen guns"

Ok, treat gun stealing like horse theivin' in the past. Justifiable homicide to kill gun thiefs on sight, capital punishment for gun stealing.

Blogger peppermint88 March 02, 2018 5:27 PM  

NAFTA can't be be the money spigot because the uniparty has existed for longer. The money and prestige spigot for the professional left is, as everyone knows, the university, the lower education system, the legacy media, the entertainment media, the unions, and other NGOs, QANGOs, and govt bureaucracies. With the exception of the entertainment media and some unions, all of it is completely worthless and only exists because it's converged.

Blogger Looking Glass March 02, 2018 5:48 PM  

@39 peppermint88

NAFTA is the assumption for all of the trade deals. Much of the trade through Mexico & Canada is actually Chinese and other country's production. It's also the means by which the big Multinationals are able to fix prices within the USA.

The price fixing is the big money spigot in a lot of industries. They're making large margins on global commodities sold in the USA. The Sugar Lobby is honest about it: Americans pay upwards of 5x as much for Sugar as the rest of the world. Most of the rest of the food stuff commodities work the same way. Further, that nearly 1 Trillion USD leaves the States and local economies, which means it's being pillaged off the backs of the low & middle class in the States, to prop up Global Finance and the larger cartels.

Since 1989, we've had Presidents that were doormats for foreigners to pillage Americans. They've had almost 30 years worth of setting up everything under that assumption. That's why the UniParty is trying everything they can, even if the President can unilaterally leave NAFTA. It's the major money spigot because it dictates most of the major money flows.

Blogger AnvilTiger March 02, 2018 5:49 PM  

Patrick Kelly wrote:"Yes I agree we should ban all guns without exception, and apply the death penalty to anyone in possession of a gun, no exception"

One version of that I use for the "hold gun owners accountable for the crimes of others using their stolen guns"

Ok, treat gun stealing like horse theivin' in the past. Justifiable homicide to kill gun thiefs on sight, capital punishment for gun stealing.



Except I was employing anti-rational rhetoric. It is meant to disrupt, not be argued for. Because logic would follow - no armed police personnel, no armed military. That is what "ban all guns without exception" means. Also, artillery, mortars, tank guns are still guns. As are ship guns. So we arm our military with spears, axes, swords, and daggers. Got it? That is why it is ANTI-RATIONAL rhetoric.

Blogger NO GOOGLES March 02, 2018 6:20 PM  

@37
You might need to email them if there isn't an option - I've had to do so before for some subscription donations previously (not specifically IG burn unit).

Blogger SciVo March 02, 2018 7:42 PM  

Looking Glass wrote:So much of Rhetoric is addressing the both the issue & solution to the topic not actually being discussed. It's actually quite annoying.

An unarmed teacher is a class full of dead kids waiting to happen. But let's say that there's an armed guard right around the corner, so only one out of six kids die before he gets there. Same odds as spinning the spinny thing on a revolver with one bullet. What kind of monster are you, that you're willing to play Russian roulette with your child's life by putting her in a classroom with no guns?I

[Eh, it's a start. Needs work though.]

Blogger SciVo March 02, 2018 7:47 PM  

Maybe change it to "so only five kids die..." the precise odds don't matter, since there are revolvers with different capacities anyway. Definitely keeping "the spinny thing" though.

Blogger SciVo March 02, 2018 7:53 PM  

Actually, the entire sentence with spinny is unnecessary.

"An unarmed teacher is a class full of dead kids waiting to happen. But let's say there's an armed guard right around the corner, so only five kids die before he gets there. What kind of monster are you, that you're willing to play Russian roulette with your child's life by putting her in a classroom with no guns?"

Blogger Wynn Lloyd March 02, 2018 8:51 PM  

That's a very good way to put it.

Blogger S. Thermite March 02, 2018 8:55 PM  

O/T: The "active shooter" at Central Michigan University people were wringing their hands about on social media this morning ended-up being a black teenager from Chicago outskirts who killed his police officer father and his mother at the start of spring break, likely after being caught by university police with drugs in his system. 5'10", 135 pounds (more-Trayvon-than-Trayvon!)...last seen wearing a hoodie...

That brain spatter is from MSM heads exploding upon realizing they can't shoehorn this one into the narrative without serious collateral damage.

Blogger Geir Balderson March 03, 2018 1:09 AM  

" I wasn’t exactly in my element surrounded by people in “Make America Great Again” hats... "
And, this is what ticks me off! hey come to our great Nation for the opportunities and the freebies and yet can't force themselves to embrace MAGA! You big dummy!!! Maga is what got you here in the first place! Glares at her!

Blogger VD March 03, 2018 7:32 AM  

Way off topic, I am contibuting $10 per month to Infogalactic, and want to put that on another card. Does anyone know a way I can edit that subscription?

Best way is to simply cancel your existing contribution and create a new one with the new card.

Blogger Lovekraft March 03, 2018 8:00 AM  

Any fellow Canadians here should head over to a reddit ama on March 8. Link below. Gov't office asking how to make it more open. I'll be throwing in a few doozies.

https://np.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/817x00/were_looking_for_ideas_on_how_to_make_government/

Blogger LAZ March 03, 2018 8:13 AM  

@SciVo: The "spinny thing on a revolver" is called the cylinder.

Blogger Were-Puppy March 03, 2018 4:39 PM  

Fake American Resonance: ACTIVATED!

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit March 03, 2018 7:50 PM  

The carrot and the stick for potential cuckery.

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