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Wednesday, April 25, 2018

The importance of rhetoric

Thales points out that the social media world is literally engulfed in low-level leftist rhetoric:
Surfing around Instagram, you will find a large number of scantily-clad women travelling the world petting cute little animals, talking about “body positivity” and posing provocatively, generally with the juicy bits only barely covered enough to avoid attracting the attention of the censors. Invariably, every cause spouted by these Instagram ladies is boilerplate Leftism. Save the whales, maybe, or fat is beautiful, or white men are vaguely shitty and probably shouldn’t even exist. Also, Christianity is crap, and Atheism is morally superior to the zombie sky wizard.

Now, we roll our eyes at this and go about our business. Why, after all, should we worry excessively about near-porn fusing with idiotic Leftism?

Truthfully, this is a massive problem. Leftism is seen, even by most Rightists, as the default position. It’s the ‘no thinking required’ setting. If you want to spout some kind of philosophical nonsense to make yourself look smart and cultured while your boob is falling out, you do Leftism. It’s easy rhetoric. Hey look, there’s a man with no fish. Saying “somebody should give him a fish, look he’s starving” is the easy rhetorical answer. Defeating this argument is simple with dialectic, but few people care about dialectic. It’s boring. Nerdy. Too many words. Better to just call somebody a bigot and move on.
The correct way to fight this is through memes. That's why I created the Daily Meme Wars, although to be honest, the memes I create tend to incorporate excessively high rhetoric. But it would be more effective to simply subvert the low-level rhetoric by taking their imagery and repurposing it. This will tend to be even more effective than their incoherent, dishonest rhetoric because, as Aristotle notes, the most effective rhetoric is based on the truth.

One can even engage in destructive meta-rhetoric, by taking their message and attaching it to images that make it clear how absurd and false their rhetoric is.

So, I'm going to be experimenting with lowering the level of the rhetoric and making it more direct to see if that makes it more effective on social media. For example, it doesn't change the message if the background image is a painting of the signing of the Constitution or a girl in an American flag bikini when the words, and the intrinsic truth underlying those words, are the same.

It is not your Country. It is not your Constitution. You have to go back.

The only substantive difference is in the effectiveness of the memes on different people. Some people do react emotionally to images from 1776. But a lot more react emotionally to images of attractive young women.

UPDATE: Here is an example from today's Daily Meme Wars that directly addresses the feminist body-positivity rhetoric.

 

Labels:

143 Comments:

Blogger Lovekraft April 25, 2018 6:01 AM  

I have noticed a more technical or logical memeing in the last while, that doesn't pack as much punch, but also elevates the debate. I believe it may be away to move the debate forward (while the SJWs are still doing 2016 memes, we're pushing the facts). h/t to heartiste as well.

https://i.imgur.com/eVXfTbM.jpg

Blogger Wynn Lloyd April 25, 2018 6:04 AM  

This blog is the first time I ever heard anyone really point out the difference between rhetoric and dialectic, and I even took a senior-level class on Aristotle as an undergrad, from a "Conservative" professor, also.
Some expert, leaving out one of the most useful aspects of the man's political philosophy.

The alt-right being inevitable, refusing to apologize to leftist smear campaigns, staying away from interviews with the mainstream media, the understanding of the moral difference between goals and tactics, the difference between rhetoric and dialectic, and the effectiveness of the former, SHOULD be the topic of discussion all over right wing media. This should have been common knowledge years ago. Yet they have all been reintroduced into right wing thinking here (afaik), by one person, over the last decade or so.
Conservatives aren't just stagnant in terms of their political beliefs, they're stagnant mentally. They're intellectually incapable of brilliance or innovation, and yet these people have been the right's strategists for decades. Well, now it begs the question as to who the truly stupid ones are, since so many of us accepted it without question.
The knowledge about rhetoric and dialect changes the entire situation.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd April 25, 2018 6:07 AM  

That's pretty good. It sums up several of the illogical claims all at once.

Blogger Harambe April 25, 2018 6:19 AM  

Wynn Lloyd wrote:This blog is the first time I ever heard anyone really point out the difference between rhetoric and dialectic, and I even took a senior-level class on Aristotle as an undergrad, from a "Conservative" professor, also.

Some expert, leaving out one of the most useful aspects of the man's political philosophy.


I don't know what your curriculum looked like, but it is always useful to read the actual source material before diving into the exhaustive analyses in the courseware. Which is how I came to understand Plato/Socrates much better after I actually bought and read the (english translation of) stuff he wrote. Having Thrasymachus bitch about Socratres not wanting to make buttsex with him puts a whole new perspective on their subsequent debate.

Blogger Miguel April 25, 2018 6:28 AM  

"The correct way to fight this is through memes."

And thats it. I find also that it works across the anti-Christian, low-attention spam leftists (from atheists to feminists, crossing the sodomites - the works).

Blogger VD April 25, 2018 6:29 AM  

Yet they have all been reintroduced into right wing thinking here (afaik), by one person, over the last decade or so.

Sadly, I remain persona non grata, which is why they really don't want to discuss the ideas much less introduce their various audiences to them. They'd rather point out how Ben Shapiro or whoever DESTROYED a liberal talking head WITH ONE PERFECT TWEET!

It would be surprising if one didn't understand that they have no interest in winning, nor any idea what to do if they ever did. What I find hard to understand is why so many conservatives who do want to win continue to support them.

Blogger Mister Excitement April 25, 2018 6:30 AM  

What a coincidence you posted this, Vox. I just had my first real Twitter duel with an SJW about 2 hours ago. "You have to go back" and "Fake American" are devastating.

Here is the exchange:

SJW: That would be great. His impeachment will be breeze.
Me: We don't want you here any more. You have to go back.
SJW: LOL! My family has been on this land for 3000 years. I am not going anywhere, bigot.
Me: You know you don't belong here. You have to go back.
SJW: I think you should go back. My family was here first.
Me: You're not one of us. We don't want you here. You have to go back to where you belong.
SJW: You're not one of us. We don't want you here. You have to go back to where you belong. #MentalInstitution #Prison #Russia
Me: You had a good run here, but it's time for you to leave. We don't want you here with us any more. You can't be a part of this.
You're an outsider and you know it. Time to go home.
SJW: You should be named Mister Excrement. You are full of shit.
Me: We decided we don't want you here with us any more. You have to go back. You know you have to. You know you don't belong here with us.
Time to go back.
SJW: Did you have a stroke or are you just severely mentally ill?
Me: You know you're a fake American. Time to stop pretending. Time for you to go back.
SJW: You know you're a fake American. Time to stop pretending. It is time for you to go back. #MentalInstitution #Prison #Russia
Me: The American people don't want you here any more. Get out. It's for the best. We have amazing plans for our future and they don't include you.
Please leave.
SJW: Keep on digging that hole for yourself.
Me: Reported you for illegal racism and anti Semitism.
SJW: LOL!
Me: Filthy racist hate is no laughing matter. That's why you have to go back. We don't want you and your racist hate. Get out.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd April 25, 2018 6:33 AM  

This guy was obsessed with handouts. To his credit, he had to condense the man's entire work into a single semester, but still. Something that is of such tremendous practical value should be discussed, imo.

Agree on the source material. I remember reading huge excerpts from On Rhetoric (and a whole bunch of other stuff) but had no means to analyze it. Certainly not to apply the ideas to the present. The guy was probably knowledgeable. He was just bad teacher, which is the norm for our system.

"Having Thrasymachus bitch about Socratres not wanting to make buttsex with him puts a whole new perspective on their subsequent debate."

Ha. That's one lecture on buttsex that is informative. Too bad there's a constant barrage of the revolting type in many courses, like the one woman (far like Dr. Jarrar) who showed gay porn every other week in her aesthetics class. I wonder; is buttsex oppressive when white males do it? At least Thrasymachus was willing to wait for consent, right? Anyway, thanks for bringing that up. I had totally forget that existed.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd April 25, 2018 6:51 AM  

I don't know as much as an insider, but I'd wager that 90% of that has to be fear of losing their sinecures. Probably intimidation and jealousy, too. Their careers are as endangered as Romney's though. Shapiro is probably secretly terrified. His writing gives me that vibe, at least.
In time, millions will see some of these posts as historically transformative, surely. Probably the case now, even. The only way I can think of where that won't be the result is if they censor the blog, the books, and a dozen others. Still, that won't work now that these ideas are out there. You've done the world a service, but I guess that goes without saying. Anyway, thank you for taking the time to reply to my comment.

Blogger McChuck April 25, 2018 6:57 AM  

Sex sells.

Blogger AdognamedOp April 25, 2018 7:04 AM  

Boobs.

Blogger VD April 25, 2018 7:04 AM  

Me: You're not one of us. We don't want you here. You have to go back to where you belong.
SJW: You're not one of us. We don't want you here. You have to go back to where you belong. #MentalInstitution #Prison #Russia


You know it is having an effect on them when they start repeating you because they can't come up with anything better themselves.

Blogger Don't Call Me Len April 25, 2018 7:06 AM  

Well the sense is sensing
That the juice keeps pumping and I know why
The bitch keeps bitching
Snitcher keeps snitching
Dropping names and telephone numbers and all
She's my little rock 'n' roll
My tits and ass with soul baby

Blogger McChuck April 25, 2018 7:10 AM  

@9 Wynn: When your life revolves around accepting handouts from your social superiors, you see anyone succeeding on their own as a threat to the system. If they achieved something without working the patronage system and sucking up to the right people, that's cheating. They didn't build that, because only "we" can do anything.

These people truly have a feudal mindset. Nothing is produced, everything is taken from the peasants by the powerful, then handed down through levels of patronage and fealty to reward the faithful.

Blogger Don't Call Me Len April 25, 2018 7:13 AM  

Just worthless insects
Genetic debris
Exterminate all bugs
With agent Zyklon B

Blogger tz April 25, 2018 7:13 AM  

Image of attractive scantily clad young women who aren't white.
Caption: You really want us to go back?

Worse, when the white warrior spirit reignites, they will show up with valentines candy captioned "Conquer Me". Hypergamy transcends race. But that will stir the warrior spirit in the white women that will send them back in a box if necessary.

Blogger Mister Excitement April 25, 2018 7:14 AM  

@12

I noticed that, too.

Nothing I said to the SJW was specific and made any sense in context to the twitter article. I never explained "We" or "us" or where she needed to go back to.

I was in sales for several years, and in all the sales training I got the key element is to get the client to make an emotional connection to the business deal.

In other words, a sales pitch is rhetoric.

Some of the key phrases I and other guys said were:

"paint a word-color picture"
"imagine what this investment can do for you"
"think about your kids in college"
"what do you want to do when you retire"

One of the sales tenets we used was "people buy on emotion, and justify with logic."

You can't do a sales pitch and close a sale by explaining the rates of return on a mutual fund, the underlying stocks, the management fees, etc. You get them to think about their future if they open an IRA account.

Blogger Doktor Jeep April 25, 2018 7:18 AM  

I would use pretty black women in bikinis with AR-15 for pro gun memes. The leftist know we white guys are the enemy but if start using their tactics to deprogram their pets they will shit green.

Blogger basementhomebrewer April 25, 2018 7:21 AM  

Wynn Lloyd wrote:The knowledge about rhetoric and dialect changes the entire situation.

This, right here, can't be overstated. Watching and participating in many debates I always wondered why one debater would focus on a slight 1 second jab their opponent threw their way while ignoring the 3 minute point they made. I always thought it was pride or a dishonest attempt to dodge the facts. Now I understand, they are people who only respond to rhetoric. Dialectic just sounds like word salad to them. Not wasting time trying to speak dialectic to a person who only understands rhetoric has been boon.

Anonymous Anonymous April 25, 2018 7:28 AM  

@9. Wynn Lloyd
'I don't know as much as an insider, but I'd wager that 90% of that has to be fear of losing their sinecures.'

You are onto something here. I think many of these conservatives (and leftists) suffer from fear. They think they can avoid the Gulag if they stay inside the overton window that is defined by the left. Subconsciously many of them (even white leftists) agree with what we say. It's just that they would rather die than admit it.

Blogger Anno Ruse April 25, 2018 7:29 AM  

"That's why I created the Daily Meme Wars, although to be honest, the memes I create tend to incorporate excessively high rhetoric."

Yeah, they're shit. I think you should give it up, you are (or whoever does it) too thinky to create good memes.

It's a good idea but maybe you need your kids to do it. Or somebody's kids. You can't THINK your way into a Pepe the Frog. You have to intuit it as only a child can.

Tell me why this ode to massive mammaries is funny. Use all your words.

MILKY MILKY WARM AND TASTY!
MOMMY! MILKY! PLEASE BE HASTY!

REFRESHING DRINK FROM MOMMY'S UDDERS!
I WANT MOMMY'S AND NO OTHER'S!

GIVE IT! GIVE IT! GIVE IT NOW!
GIVE ME MILKY, LAZY SOW!

UNTIL YOU DO I'LL SCREAM I'LL SHOUT!
I'LL CRY I'LL WHINE AND STOMP ABOUT!

UNTIL MY BELLY IS FULL AND HAPPY!
I REFUSE TO TAKE A NAPPY!

Yeah. You can't EXPLAIN why something is funny. It just is. This be how memes do.

Anonymous Anonymous April 25, 2018 7:30 AM  

@VD: The song "This is me" which you posted a few days ago would make excellent memeing material. It is a generic song about the oppressed. All that needs to be done is to replace the video with something else. The line "We are Glorious" would sound great with footage of Polish people protesting against the invasion, for example.

Also, "You're not one of us. We don't want you here. You have to go back to where you belong" would make a nice chorus for another song.

Blogger Harambe April 25, 2018 7:52 AM  

The best memes say more than the words and images they consist of. Like this tweet: https://twitter.com/NBDruid/status/988530201964445707

Blogger VD April 25, 2018 8:01 AM  

Yeah, that's good. Too high for most to comprehend, but still, very good. That's an example of the second technique I mentioned. Their words plus an autorefuting image.

Blogger Dirk Manly April 25, 2018 8:02 AM  

"Surfing around Instagram, you will find a large number of scantily-clad women travelling the world petting cute little animals, talking about “body positivity” and posing provocatively, generally with the juicy bits only barely covered enough to avoid attracting the attention of the censors. Invariably, every cause spouted by these Instagram ladies is boilerplate Leftism. Save the whales, maybe, or fat is beautiful, or white men are vaguely shitty and probably shouldn’t even exist. Also, Christianity is crap, and Atheism is morally superior to the zombie sky wizard."


When the exact same construction is followed, over and over, then you know this isn't happenstance. It's an op.

Once is happenstance.
Twice is coincidence.
Thrice and more is enemy action.

Blogger Uncle John's Band April 25, 2018 8:03 AM  

Images are pure rhetoric because they are so primal; humans were making pictures to influence reality tens of thousands of years before writing. The right's memes are so much better, not because they are more dialectical, but use rhetoric in the service of truth. I find pitching them at the right level challenging, and often, the most popular memes I've made weren't ones I'd thought that good, while the clever ones land with a thud.

9. Wynn Lloyd

"I don't know as much as an insider, but I'd wager that 90% of that has to be fear of losing their sinecures."

Once you abandon narrative pretense and credentialism to analyze the truth, you face the fear of failure. Most of these figures lack the ability to break things down the way they are here. Their whole identity is based on delivering the talking points and "succeeding" in predictable ways. Those few who could even imagine an open market of ideas are terrified by the thought.

Blogger Nate April 25, 2018 8:08 AM  

"But it would be more effective to simply subvert the low-level rhetoric by taking their imagery and repurposing it. "

so we need hot girls showing boob in lab coats with stethoscopes around their necks pointing out the very real health costs of obesity.

Blogger Nate April 25, 2018 8:09 AM  

"There is no appetite for this message. Beyond the angry fringe who listens to it and nods, not even they are willing to embrace it and spread it. They know it has no power to persuade."

You are quite mistook. There is a huge appetite for it. It isn't there to persuade anyone anyway. It is there because seeing fires up our side... and demoralizes the other side.

Blogger VD April 25, 2018 8:11 AM  

First, "SaintCrispee", you are not permitted to comment here. Second, the fact that the rhetoric is effective is proven regularly by the fact that you continue to show up here, despite being repeatedly banned, because you are trying to counteract it.

And your attempts are futile. The traffic continues to grow. Others have developed better rhetorical skills than I have. Your constant preaching of defeat is, ironically enough, a failure.

Blogger Nate April 25, 2018 8:12 AM  

"What I find hard to understand is why so many conservatives who do want to win continue to support them."

Team Loyalty... Brand Loyalty... all of that.


Blogger Dirk Manly April 25, 2018 8:12 AM  

@8

"This guy was obsessed with handouts. To his credit, he had to condense the man's entire work into a single semester, but still. Something that is of such tremendous practical value should be discussed, imo."


No, he didn't have to condense all of Aristotle into one semester.

He could have alternated between teaching The Philosophy of Aristotle I, and The Philosophy of Aristotle II.

Outside of a Philosophy major, there is NO degree accreditation requirement to study Aristotle, and for a Philosophy Degree, offering 2 3-credit classes, each of which delves into the material is MUCH BETTER than offering just one 3-credit class that only gives you a gloss on most things, and leaves out some things entirely.

Blogger VD April 25, 2018 8:13 AM  

Here is an easy and effective meme:

IF YOU WERE POSITIVE ABOUT YOUR BODY, YOU'D TAKE BETTER CARE OF IT.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd April 25, 2018 8:15 AM  

... the memes I create tend to incorporate excessively high rhetoric.

I thought it was just me. Your memes usually aren't gutwrenching, and often look like inside jokes for those of us who read this blog.

WRSA has a meme of a little blond girl with a skinned knee, bending down, looking down into the camera. It's as if you're looking up out of a hole at her. She's asking ``What was freedom like?'' I think that meme grabs their audience, hard. I haven't tried spreading it elsewhere.

I often see surprisingly good memes at Patriot Post, apparently aimed at middle aged normies. Patriot Post seems to me to be fairly cucked, but not Conservative Inc. They stop a little short of NeverTrump.

Blogger Peaceful Poster April 25, 2018 8:17 AM  

Musicals are the best rhetoric.

And VD is the best man for the job.

Blogger Dirk Manly April 25, 2018 8:18 AM  

@16

"Image of attractive scantily clad young women who aren't white.
Caption: You really want us to go back?

No... that will inspire the desperate losers with their poverty mindset to fight to make exceptions for those women (and their demon sprog... because, both the grovel&scrapers and the bowties with their "can't upset da ladeeees!" mentality)

Much better is

Image of attractive scantily clad young women who aren't white.
Caption:
Yes, we really want you to go back. And your sprog, too.

Blogger Dirk Manly April 25, 2018 8:19 AM  

In other words, don't give the infiltrators and immivaders a voice.

The ONLY voice should be of our side, telling them to GTFO.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd April 25, 2018 8:36 AM  

The feudal analogy is spot on. That's every university faculty in the USA at this point I'm guessing. Government bureaucracies, too. Probably even the business world, at this point.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd April 25, 2018 8:39 AM  

That will be impossible for me to resist, probably many other men, too. These Asian girls can scam a man out of all sorts of money and situations. Many will need help to resist at that point, ha.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd April 25, 2018 8:48 AM  

And when you do speak rhetoric to them, you can get the most extreme reactions imaginable.
Better to just avoid discussions with those you're close to, unless there's a real chance of winning then over. The explosion for beating rabbits at rhetoric can actually lead them to suicidal emotions, if they are deluded enough and your rhetoric is destructive enough.
Who knows how so many people got to that point. We weren't like that in the 19th century. Or maybe we were and I just can't see it.

Blogger James Dixon April 25, 2018 8:54 AM  

> Truthfully, this is a massive problem. Leftism is seen, even by most Rightists, as the default position. It’s the ‘no thinking required’ setting.

And this is what the alt-right is changing. Stating the truth simply and forcefully works. Who could have predicted it?

> You can't do a sales pitch and close a sale by explaining the rates of return on a mutual fund, the underlying stocks, the management fees, etc.

Heh, only too true. And yet those are the things that matter. Which is why, to quote the post above, you have to read the actual source material. Which is also why I prefer to do my own research and only then talk to a sales person.

> No... that will inspire the desperate losers with their poverty mindset to fight to make exceptions for those women

I believe that was his point. That will be an attempt to fight our rhetoric with their own. And the response to it is obvious. If you really want to stay as a sex slave you can, otherwise you have to go back.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd April 25, 2018 8:57 AM  

They can probably sense that they will be eaten by their allies eventually.
Reminds me of the study done by an anthropologist I can't remember, who noticed that the lowest ranking chimps in the tribe would sometimes bring food to the "Warrior" chimps of rival tribes, and the very low-ranking females would even mate with their males in secret. Yet the very moment the foreign tribe of chimps conquered the other, the "traitor" chimps who didn't escape were killed without exception, whereas a few of the "defender" ones could be accepted into the new group, even males.
Sucks to be a shitlib chimp, ha. Are they as obnoxious to other chimps as the human shitlibs are to us? A question to be pondered.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd April 25, 2018 9:01 AM  

I know this is true, because I've been one of the terrified ones. I did everything to resist the idea that the humanities were doomed in their current phase. I had to face the prospect of being made redundant eventually, and it sucked. But it's better to face it and be prepared, in the end.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd April 25, 2018 9:03 AM  

That's true. The class jumped around constantly and nothing was addressed completely. Two semesters would have been better. Mississippi education though. Go figure.

Blogger VD April 25, 2018 9:07 AM  

I believe that was his point. That will be an attempt to fight our rhetoric with their own. And the response to it is obvious. If you really want to stay as a sex slave you can, otherwise you have to go back.

If rhetoric has to be explained, let alone puzzled out, it is not effective.

Anonymous Anonymous April 25, 2018 9:19 AM  

@Vox and others

what is the best teacher for younger folks to learn rhetoric? Who can I suggest to them to read for good examples?

Blogger Nate April 25, 2018 9:29 AM  

"IF YOU WERE POSITIVE ABOUT YOUR BODY, YOU'D TAKE BETTER CARE OF IT."

see... that with a porny looking chick in a doctor's outfit or a nurse outfit would be effective.

Blogger Nate April 25, 2018 9:44 AM  

"If rhetoric has to be explained, let alone puzzled out, it is not effective."

Yep. Good rhetoric is like good comedy.

Blogger Nate April 25, 2018 9:48 AM  

"what is the best teacher for younger folks to learn rhetoric? Who can I suggest to them to read for good examples?"

Comedians.

Bill Burr... or old recordings of Tim Wilson. A great example of Tim Wilson's rhetoric was his take down of Bill Clinton in the early 90s..

"Bill Clinton drove an El Camino in college. True story... he drove an El Camino. Now really... if you can't decide if you need a pick up truck or a chevy malibu... I don't want you running the free world."

That is some fantastic rhetoric.

Anonymous Anonymous April 25, 2018 10:01 AM  

Thanks Nate.

Blogger VD April 25, 2018 10:04 AM  

see... that with a porny looking chick in a doctor's outfit or a nurse outfit would be effective.

Done. Sent out with today's Daily Meme Wars.

Blogger Demonic Professor El April 25, 2018 10:08 AM  

That beautiful girl picture with caption: "The Left (or DNC, whoever) wants her killed."

Blogger Nate April 25, 2018 10:13 AM  

see.. what I like about that meme is there are tons of different messages that are coming from it that are not explicitly stated.

Blogger Avalanche April 25, 2018 10:14 AM  

@16 "valentines candy captioned "Conquer Me"."

ooooh, I'd but that! But ONLY if it were sold -- and manufactured by WHITE MEN!!

Blogger VD April 25, 2018 10:15 AM  

That beautiful girl picture with caption: "The Left (or DNC, whoever) wants her killed."

No. That's retarded. As I pointed out in the next thread, if you don't meme yourself, shut the hell up about it. You obviously don't know how to do it, what is effective, and your ideas are more often counterproductive than not.

What part of "the most effective rhetoric is based in truth" is hard to understand?

Blogger Brick Hardslab April 25, 2018 10:17 AM  

Does effective visual rhetoric differ from sales techniques where you are getting the customer to agree with you/follow your direction first before you make the actual pitch?

In other words should you start with the funny but only a little edgy boobage as an appetizer then throw in the more direct stuff, (again with the boobs or American imagery or both)?

I'm just wondering how much priming is necessary. I'm male so boobs get my attention but I get a bigger kick out of say Rebel in her daisy dukes than any Kardashian no matter how much skin is on display.

Blogger Nate April 25, 2018 10:26 AM  

"What part of "the most effective rhetoric is based in truth" is hard to understand?"

These are the people who still think White Genocide is good rhetoric.

Anonymous Anonymous April 25, 2018 10:31 AM  

Doktor Jeep I would use pretty black women in bikinis with AR-15 for pro gun memes

I worked in inner city hospitals for years, I saw a few black fathers over the years but no pretty black women. A national park ad has more black fathers than I saw in months.

IF YOU WERE POSITIVE ABOUT YOUR BODY, YOU'D TAKE BETTER CARE OF IT.

What about "IF YOU WERE POSITIVE ABOUT YOUR BODY, YOU wouldn't be so pozzed"

That beautiful girl picture with caption: "The Left (or DNC, whoever) wants her killed."

Feminists import rape culture to attack the pretty girls for them. They never left middle school mentality.

Blogger S. Misanthrope April 25, 2018 10:33 AM  

I caused a ruckus at my HS by posting what would today be called memes around the halls. This was mid-Iraq war, and I was a generic pro-military Republican sick of my leftist school Bush-bashing all day. I paired generic lefty talking points with pictures of the twin towers smoking and piles of dead bodies and Saddam’s crazy son’s torture chamber. The school freaked out, of course, but what was interesting was they were desperate to know what I meant by these signs. I told them it was up to the viewer to decide what it meant. That made them extremely unhappy. They ended up instituting a “free speech zone” and required a blank sheet of paper posted next to anything posted there so people could write counter-points

Blogger tuberman April 25, 2018 10:37 AM  

Good info. I sent out this Meme to several others.

Blogger S. Misanthrope April 25, 2018 10:38 AM  

I don’t hold those beliefs anymore and there’s better rhetoric, but the school was lying about not understanding the message, which was clear and harsh.

Blogger M. Bibliophile April 25, 2018 10:50 AM  

This is interesting. I showed the meme to my wife, who proceeded to ignore the message and sneer at the model. "A stripper? They used a STRIPPER?" A fifteen minute explanation of both low-level rhetoric and Instagram models (she knew the concept, but not the term) followed, the fruits of which were that women would pay attention to the Instagram models because they were considered to have both beauty and class, while a stripper would be disregarded because she had none of the latter and rendered the former suspect.

The point? The model matters. We may see little difference between a stripper and an Instagram model, but it does matter to certain segments of the population. In other words, that in itself is its own level of rhetoric.

Blogger JaimeInTexas April 25, 2018 10:53 AM  

There is a MEME in that pic? Cannot hot girl be a real nurse?

Blogger English Tom April 25, 2018 10:53 AM  

What shall we call You?

Blogger Nate April 25, 2018 10:58 AM  

we need more Alfie Evans memes. particularly juxtaposing his treatment with the treatment of the new royal baby.


Blogger peppermint April 25, 2018 11:03 AM  

VD's body positivity meme is good even though the thread makes it sound like he thinks memes are supposed to have words and arguments instead of flatly describing reality. Honestly the doctor costume and perfect body are enough and it can just say "body positivity" or "body positivity take pride in it" but M.Bibliophile is right, it should be a cute girl in yoga pants working out.

I like the idea of Somalian woman crying with "female genital mutilation" and pussyhat screeching women with refugees welcome sign with "you're next", for insulting feminists, note the lack of words, and the implication that the meme maker is the one who's going to chop up the fems' carefully shaved junk.

Blogger James Dixon April 25, 2018 11:03 AM  

> If rhetoric has to be explained, let alone puzzled out, it is not effective.

I didn't say the response was effective rhetoric, Vox. Merely that it was obvious.

If you haven't noticed, I'm not all that good at rhetoric for normals. I leave it to the folks that are.

Blogger JaimeInTexas April 25, 2018 11:08 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger JaimeInTexas April 25, 2018 11:10 AM  

@22, @43, @46

That is a good MEME but it also reminded me of something That Florence King wrote in National Review's "The Misanthrope's Corner."
I do not remember all the details, it was many years ago, but the elements were this:

1) Florence was at DPS, in whatever State she is from.
2) Long lines in DPS.
3) DPS workers are archetypical and move slow, chat with each other and ignore "customers."
4) Florence is next and DPS person shows lack of concern, behaves as expected and starts with bureaucratic explanations.
5) Florence remarks out loud "I see the writing on the wall."
6) DPS worker turns around looking for whatever Florence was talking about.

The DPS worker had no idea of what Florence made reference.

Blogger Patrick Kelly April 25, 2018 11:11 AM  

@60
Yep, that's what she said, but she responded to the meme, paid attention to it, and discussed it with you. It's in her head. Mission accomplished.


Blogger Avalanche April 25, 2018 11:16 AM  

@26 "so we need hot girls showing boob in lab coats with stethoscopes around their necks pointing out the very real health costs of obesity."

Aw, come on Nate -- (first, that's wholly dialectic, no matter the boobs! And then:) do you really believe there is a SINGLE fat person in the entire modern West who does NOT know 100% that being fat is bad?! IF there were a *successful* method or process or drug or surgery that WOULD work -- hell, even just 50% of the time!! -- do you think MOST fat people would not grasp it with both hands? (Can you not recognize the difference between hopeless (if aggressive) defensiveness and an alleged "happy" acceptance of a body that does not fit human standards?)

"If only they would stop eating": how, then, do you address the literally HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people who cut down their intake to 1,200 cals a day -- which level was declared a WAR CRIME at Nuremberg -- and yet still do not lose weight? How about the studies with rats with deranged metabolic systems who -- when fed a massively restricted diet (and no cheating, obviously, they were in CAGES, yes?!) -- STILL laid on the fat and DIED of obesity and the starvation of the tissues necessary for life?!

My thyroid doctor (who, unlike many/most docs) actually HAS studied thyroid problems, told me (and it's backed up by both literature and anecdotes, that -- if your thyroid is f-ed, you can be doing every single thing right (food, exercise, hormone replacement -- EVERYTHING we know of) -- and you will not lose an ounce! (Sucks to be me -- and most fat folks!)

I do NOT provide a defense for being fat (I agree, there isn't one; but you don't need to try to shame ME to make me aware nor any other fat people) -- I feel great sympathy for those who have tried and tried and finally given up. (Or, as in my case, keep trying!)

If it were "just" a matter of 'they eat too much' and somehow not a matter of an actual broken body system... well, try this on..."for size." As a kid hits growth spurts, s/he become ravenous (and "lazy": the body says, "stop wasting calories by movement, I'm busy makin' you taller!")! People joke about their pre-teen/teen "eating them out of house and home"!

It's not that they are lazy and greedy-guts; it's that their BODY -- will they, nil they -- is shunting the majority of the calories they take in into growth plans they have no choice in. And IF you keep feeding them huge amounts after they reach their genetically programmed height --they do NOT continue to get taller (cause it's NOT mainly about intake)! For most kids, that's an autonomic (i.e., managed by the body/genes, not the consciousness) program. You can stunt the kid by not providing sufficient calories; but you cannot increase his growth except by growth hormones.

AND, the whole medical, pharma, food production SYSTEM in this country, in the western world, is pathological. Go read Gary Taubes or watch Robert Lustig... As long as everything health/diet is pathologically false, people are going to be hopelessly stuck -- and medically deranged.

The media has lied, is lying, and will continue to lie to you, about health and diet. Please stop HELPING them!

p.s., Perhaps, a 'more acceptable' (to the uneducated) example: diabetes is a disease of the inability to metabolize serum glucose (blood sugar). The medical orthodoxy, the diabetes orthodoxy, the cardiac orthodoxy, Big Pharma, ALL push (and even prescribe) their "diabetes diet" -- which is BASED ON 6-8 daily servings OF CARBS! Carbs, which the body immediately (and entirely autonomically: you have no control of it) turns into serum glucose. So, their "medical suggestion" for a DISEASE of carb management is: eat lots and lots and lots of carbs! UNLESS the diabetic actually does his own research, he is contributing to his disease by his "disease management."

Trust medicine and its partners?! Oh hell no!

Blogger English Tom April 25, 2018 11:22 AM  

Realty, no matter how ugly, is always preferable to delusion. Unfortunately, a lot of people think their delusions are reality.

Blogger M. Bibliophile April 25, 2018 11:25 AM  

@68 Only because she's married to me. Otherwise, she would have wrinkled her nose and dismissed it.

I'm not a rhetorician, I'm just trying to offer observations so that those who have a better grasp of it can adjust their deflection and QE. The discussion we had was frustrating because I was pointing out the general equation, as it were, but she couldn't get past the STRIPPER! model. That might well be effective, I don't pretend to know, but I do believe that the model is critical and the reason why all the Instagram models tend to be of a type: it works. If the target of the meme, intended or otherwise, can't move past the image, that might be indicative of an opportunity for tuning.

Blogger Nate April 25, 2018 11:40 AM  

"Aw, come on Nate -- (first, that's wholly dialectic, no matter the boobs! And then:) do you really believe there is a SINGLE fat person in the entire modern West who does NOT know 100% that being fat is bad?"

jesus...

no.

The point is not to argue against being fat. its to argue against fat acceptance as a virtue.

Blogger VD April 25, 2018 11:43 AM  

This is interesting. I showed the meme to my wife, who proceeded to ignore the message and sneer at the model. "A stripper? They used a STRIPPER?" A fifteen minute explanation of both low-level rhetoric and Instagram models (she knew the concept, but not the term) followed, the fruits of which were that women would pay attention to the Instagram models because they were considered to have both beauty and class, while a stripper would be disregarded because she had none of the latter and rendered the former suspect.

WHOOSH. You clearly don't understand the difference between rhetoric and dialectic. What you are relating is actually evidence of how smashingly effective the rhetoric is. Her babbling about what women will pay attention to is total nonsense. What are you going to do for an encore, tell us that she finds nice, respectable men to be the epitome of masculine sex appeal?

The point? The model matters. We may see little difference between a stripper and an Instagram model, but it does matter to certain segments of the population. In other words, that in itself is its own level of rhetoric.

You are completely wrong. The purpose of rhetoric is to inspire an emotional reaction. Which this meme obviously did.

Blogger VD April 25, 2018 11:47 AM  

I'm not a rhetorician, I'm just trying to offer observations so that those who have a better grasp of it can adjust their deflection and QE.

That is clear. But your observations are not helpful, because you don't understand rhetoric, the difference between it and dialectic, or its purpose.

The body positivity rhetoric is designed to make women feel good even though they are fat. The anti-body positivity rhetoric is designed to make women feel bad, thereby proving body positivity is a lie.

It obviously worked on your wife, which is why she immediately leaped to disqualify and discredit.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 25, 2018 11:55 AM  

Nope, Nate, too wordy
"HEALTHY AT ANY WEIGHT" + peopleofwalmart.com

Blogger peppermint April 25, 2018 12:00 PM  

Every woman wants to be a stripper. But what they want even more is to be wearing yoga pants and a sports bra in a pose that is totally a yoga pose not at all a sex pose that shows the goods.

Blogger MendoScot April 25, 2018 12:23 PM  

The largest response I've had on the Daily Meme Wars was your "YOU NEED A GUN!" from last week, but in general I think it was the "Barbie discovers that Ken is a liberal" meme.

The two panel inverted message memes seem to be quite effective, as well. "GAYS FOR ISLAM vs. ISLAM FOR GAYS" for instance.

But nothing beats bacon memes.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener April 25, 2018 12:25 PM  

The body positivity meme would be more effective with a picture something like this.

Blogger JaimeInTexas April 25, 2018 12:29 PM  

@78
Nah. have pic of a obese person trying to fit in a normal chair at a dinner; or, at an airplane seat while overflowing over the neighbors.

Obesity, no body else's business.

Blogger Nate April 25, 2018 12:30 PM  

THE ASPIE

IT BURNS

Blogger VD April 25, 2018 12:33 PM  

The body positivity meme would be more effective with a picture something like this.

No, Noah, it would not.

Blogger Dirk Manly April 25, 2018 12:43 PM  

@69

"If only they would stop eating": how, then, do you address the literally HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people who cut down their intake to 1,200 cals a day -- which level was declared a WAR CRIME at Nuremberg -- and yet still do not lose weight?"

Simple -- they're lying.

As Seattle Sutton, the no-nonsense weight-loss entrepreneur says: "I play no games. If you don't lose weight on a 1200 calorie diet, you're either cheating, or laying in a hospital in a coma"

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella April 25, 2018 12:44 PM  

mmmm....she's tacky.

yoga pants and sports bra? not tacky.

the polyester lingerie is for men. Is that your demographic? (real question)

And, goodness yes, songs and music need alt-right. Think of all the songs from high school you can still sing all the words to. That's programming.

Blogger Dirk Manly April 25, 2018 12:46 PM  

@69

"My thyroid doctor (who, unlike many/most docs) actually HAS studied thyroid problems, told me (and it's backed up by both literature and anecdotes, that -- if your thyroid is f-ed, you can be doing every single thing right (food, exercise, hormone replacement -- EVERYTHING we know of) -- and you will not lose an ounce! (Sucks to be me -- and most fat folks!)
"

SIGNIFICANTLY carbs out of your diet (carbs trigger the production of insulin, which makes you hungry), and replace them with animal fats.

The 1970's mis-information that eating fats make you fat is 100% wrong. A calorie is a calorie is a calorie. But some calories (proteins and animal fats) suppress hunger, and other calories (sugars, starches) induce hunger.

Eat accordingly.

Blogger Brick Hardslab April 25, 2018 12:50 PM  

This thread needs more pics of effective boob memes. For educational purposes of course.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener April 25, 2018 12:55 PM  

In my experience upsetting people is a tricky communication technique. The target being upset means you have their attention, but on the other hand you don't want them to be so upset that they emotionally shut down, quit thinking, and react with hostility. My guess is that the reaction M.Bibliophile described is going to be a common one among women. But they wouldn't be so turned off by an image of a fit woman doing something athletic, whether it's rock climbing or sprinting. For men the stripper/nurse is definitely a more attention-getting image.

On the subject of effective rhetoric, I got a chance to work the "Harry and the Half Blood Princess" line into casual conversation. Set people off like fireworks!

Blogger Michael Maier April 25, 2018 12:57 PM  

Women (and all humans) who "cannot lose weight":

GO FOR A WALK.

And stop buying sugar bombs at Starbucks.

Blogger Michael Maier April 25, 2018 12:58 PM  

Noah B The Savage Gardener wrote:

On the subject of effective rhetoric, I got a chance to work the "Harry and the Half Blood Princess" line into casual conversation. Set people off like fireworks!


Probably going to regret asking but, HUH?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd April 25, 2018 12:59 PM  

bgkoranburner wrote:I worked in inner city hospitals for years, I saw a few black fathers over the years but no pretty black women.

Halle Berry? Or is she more high yellow than black? There may be a few others, but I can't think of any.

Blogger Dirk Manly April 25, 2018 1:00 PM  

"
On the subject of effective rhetoric, I got a chance to work the "Harry and the Half Blood Princess" line into casual conversation. Set people off like fireworks!"


You can't just trot that out there and leave us hanging.

Tell us the story!

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener April 25, 2018 1:01 PM  

@Michael Maier

It was a reference to the upcoming royal wedding that Vox made some time ago. A play on the title of a JK Rowling novel in the Harry Potter series, Harry and the Half Blood Prince.

Blogger Dirk Manly April 25, 2018 1:03 PM  

@89 Ominous Cowherd

> bgkoranburner wrote:
>> I worked in inner city hospitals for years, I saw a few black fathers over the years but no pretty black women.


> Halle Berry? Or is she more high yellow than black? There may be a few others, but I can't think of any.


I always thought her appearance was WAY over-rated. Libs who will give any 7 a 10 for being not-white, as some sort of twisted affirmative action, and thinking that if they say mediocre is a 10 enough times, that it will change the tuning of mens' dickmeters.

Blogger Dirk Manly April 25, 2018 1:05 PM  

@ Noah

And......?

After you trotted it out, What Happened?

Tears?
Fainting?
Rolling-on-the-floor-like-a-3-year-old-having-a-temper-tantrum?

Blogger OneWingedShark April 25, 2018 1:14 PM  

James Dixon wrote:> Truthfully, this is a massive problem. Leftism is seen, even by most Rightists, as the default position. It’s the ‘no thinking required’ setting.

And this is what the alt-right is changing. Stating the truth simply and forcefully works. Who could have predicted it?

Honestly, the only reason that the Leftist position is "no thinking required" is because it's pushed so much in indoctrination-prisons (public schools) for so many years, and over so many generations.

That there remains a "conservative" (in the sense of adhering to founding principles) population of any size at all -- and make no mistake, the "conservative"-base was exactly who (and what) Mr. Trump was appealing to -- is a testament to just how much of a lie, an unreality, the Leftist position is.

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Nope, Nate, too wordy

"HEALTHY AT ANY WEIGHT" + peopleofwalmart.com

Ok, I think you just won the thread.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd April 25, 2018 1:18 PM  

Dirk Manly wrote:I always thought her appearance was WAY over-rated. Libs who will give any 7 a 10 for being not-white,

Halle Berry is a 7? Maybe that good. How many other Black women are even an honest 5, which is about where I'd rate her?

BBGKB was just talking about pretty, not hot. I think Halle qualifies as pretty - that's a low bar to get over.

Blogger VD April 25, 2018 1:18 PM  

In my experience upsetting people is a tricky communication technique. The target being upset means you have their attention, but on the other hand you don't want them to be so upset that they emotionally shut down, quit thinking, and react with hostility.

I repeat. You don't know what you are talking about.

My guess is that the reaction M.Bibliophile described is going to be a common one among women. But they wouldn't be so turned off by an image of a fit woman doing something athletic, whether it's rock climbing or sprinting.

Of course. That's because the meme is so effective. You're right, they wouldn't be "turned off" by it. They wouldn't care. That's because it's ineffective.

Do you people seriously not understand that rhetoric does not involve thinking? How can you possibly believe your opinion about rhetoric is even remotely relevant when you betray a total failure to even understand what it is or how it works?

Blogger Patrick Kelly April 25, 2018 1:31 PM  

"The point is not to argue against being fat. its to argue against fat acceptance as a virtue."

That this has to be pointed out gives me hope I'm not at the bottom of the mid-wit pile reading this blog.

Is that cruel? Selfish?

"Do you people seriously not understand that rhetoric does not involve thinking? How can you possibly believe your opinion about rhetoric is even remotely relevant when you betray a total failure to even understand what it is or how it works?"

Anyone's dialectic response to rhetoric, like "she's a stripper", or preference for athletic women in yoga pants, does not have any bearing on how effective the rhetoric is.

The fact that they respond with dialectic (weak in these cases) demonstrates the rhetoric is indeed working.

Criticism and "ewe, icky" responses even more so.

Rhetoric is about tweaking noses, jerking chains, knocking blocks off shoulders. Acceptance, agreement, revulsion, shrieking, makes no difference, they all indicate rhetorical success.



Blogger Anthony April 25, 2018 1:32 PM  

Put out or get out.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan April 25, 2018 1:33 PM  

Ask a question walk away

Blogger Last Redoubt April 25, 2018 1:43 PM  

FWIW - I'll actually try out instagram model vs stripper for the body-pos meme, but we may have a case of different audiences reacting to different things.

I do recall the screaming fits the feminists had over the "beach body ready" ads, and the yoga mom with multiple kids posing with her toned body and "what's your excuse?"

Blogger Dirk Manly April 25, 2018 1:56 PM  

"My guess is that the reaction M.Bibliophile described is going to be a common one among women. But they wouldn't be so turned off by an image of a fit woman doing something athletic, whether it's rock climbing or sprinting."

Look, dumbass.... the "Fat but Fit" argument is basically a cover for "I'm still (sexually) attractive even though I'm grossly overweight"

The MOST EFFECTIVE... in fact, the ONLY effective image is one in which the female model is BLATANTLY PRESENTED AS AN OBJECT OF SEXUAL DESIRE.

A fat woman can lie to herself and say, "I could go cliff-climbing, too, if I wanted to... I just don't want to."

But she CAN NOT lie to herself and say, "I would look JUST AS ATTRACTIVE AS THE GIRL IN THIS PHOTO if I was wearing what she is wearing."

The fact that your wife was getting so apoplectic about the model "being a stripper" (how does she know *what* the model does for a living???) demonstrates ABSOLUTELY that the message has utterly hit home.... that she sees that even a woman who she is referring to as "a stripper" is far more attractive in the eyes of most men than she is.

If you're lucky, it will inspire her to reform her eating habits, and start taking the stairs instead of the elevator to go up 1 or 2 stories, and stop wasting gas looking for "the parking spot absolutely super-closest to the doors" when she goes to the mall. And if you're REALLY lucky -- to go hit the gym, or swimming pool lap lane, on a regular basis.

Blogger Dirk Manly April 25, 2018 2:01 PM  

@95


Ominous Cowherd wrote:
> Dirk Manly wrote:
>> I always thought her appearance was WAY over-rated. Libs who will give any 7 a 10 for being not-white,


> Halle Berry is a 7? Maybe that good. How many other Black women are even an honest 5, which is about where I'd rate her?

> BBGKB was just talking about pretty, not hot. I think Halle qualifies as pretty - that's a low bar to get over.


I didn't say Halle Barry is a 7.

I said her attractiveness was overstated by the type of affirmative-action pushing libtard who declares a black 7 to be a 10 because not-white.

In other words, her actual attractiveness (when she was in her early 20's), was 3-4 points lower than what the MSM was selling her as being.

Anonymous Anonymous April 25, 2018 2:01 PM  

I think Vox needs to teach the ilk and other supporters more about the topic at hand. Some clearly don't understand rhetoric.

Blogger tuberman April 25, 2018 2:07 PM  

I do like a picture of Ruth Ginsburg, slumped in a drunken stupor, seated among alert male associate judges with the caption, "Old Feminist never die!"

Blogger Dirk Manly April 25, 2018 2:10 PM  

@ Anthony

"Put out or get out"

No, Anthony, we don't need Asian women here, even if they're willing to put out.

1. That will only encourage the basement dweller Wapanese "waifu"-fantasizer to go to war to keep them IN the United States. I'm assuming that you're included in this group, otherwise you wouldn't be trying to come up with some message that allows them ANY means of staying here.

2. THEY HAVE TO GO BACK. UNCONDITIONALLY. NO CHANCES FOR STAYING AT ALL. What part of this do you not understand? Asian women will sleep with anything or anybody to get what they want. They're willing to whore themselves out for a goal even more than Swedish women are willing to get naked for absolutely no reason at all. [Anything you have heard about Swedish women, even if it's something your buddy is telling you, that he just made up.. is true. They are THAT promiscous. The Bud Light "Swedish Bikini Team" joke used for an advertising campaign.... inspired.... a bunch of Swedish women to create a "Bikini Team" (whatever that is)].

Providing excuses for those who are outside of the culture, to remain UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES AT ALL, is counter-productive.

Blogger JaimeInTexas April 25, 2018 2:12 PM  

@104
Old Feminist never die! They just drunk slump.

Blogger tuberman April 25, 2018 2:13 PM  

Or better yet Ruth with a typical seriously ugly photo of her, with the caption, "Twelve, Twelve is old enough, I enjoy twelve."

Blogger Starboard April 25, 2018 2:20 PM  

Different memes for different audiences.

The Sexy Nurse costume and "IF YOU WERE POSITIVE ABOUT YOUR BODY, YOU'D TAKE BETTER CARE OF IT." is meant to offend and trigger the land whales and feminists while giving the men a chuckle.

The athletic girl and "IF YOU WERE POSITIVE ABOUT YOUR BODY, YOU'D TAKE BETTER CARE OF IT." is meant to motivate other athletic girls to work harder. It sounds like a cross fit poster.

"I do recall the screaming fits the feminists had over the "beach body ready" ads, and the yoga mom with multiple kids posing with her toned body and "what's your excuse?"

I thought those memes were very effective, along with the Godfrey Elfwick "go ahead have another.." Some sting a little; some sting a lot. Some demotivate, and some motivate.

Well played

Blogger M. Bibliophile April 25, 2018 2:38 PM  

VD wrote:WHOOSH. You clearly don't understand the difference between rhetoric and dialectic. What you are relating is actually evidence of how smashingly effective the rhetoric is. Her babbling about what women will pay attention to is total nonsense. What are you going to do for an encore, tell us that she finds nice, respectable men to be the epitome of masculine sex appeal?

You missed the mark on her, but that's because she's both very much a woman, but so far outside the target audience so as to render her opinion worthless. Regardless, what I did was focus on the latter and disregard the former, so make a NAWALT comment that ignored my first impression. Duly noted, and I appreciate you pointing out my error.

VD wrote:That is clear. But your observations are not helpful, because you don't understand rhetoric, the difference between it and dialectic, or its purpose.

The body positivity rhetoric is designed to make women feel good even though they are fat. The anti-body positivity rhetoric is designed to make women feel bad, thereby proving body positivity is a lie.

It obviously worked on your wife, which is why she immediately leaped to disqualify and discredit.


In retrospect, no, they were not. If anything, you underestimate the emotional response this triggered, albeit from a different angle than you intimated. It's a lot of food for thought. One thing I wonder is how much of a blunt force object are memes? Is the obsession on tuning helpful at all, or universally more harm than good? Just something for me to think on.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd April 25, 2018 2:45 PM  

Dirk Manly wrote:I didn't say Halle Barry is a 7.

I said her attractiveness was overstated by the type of affirmative-action pushing libtard who declares a black 7 to be a 10 because not-white.

In other words, her actual attractiveness (when she was in her early 20's), was 3-4 points lower than what the MSM was selling her as being.


I agree with what you're saying. BBGKB was saying he had seen no pretty black girls. I was saying that there exists one pretty black girl, although she's not very black, and not very pretty.

Blogger Dirk Manly April 25, 2018 3:02 PM  

@111

"You missed the mark on her, but that's because she's both very much a woman, but so far outside the target audience so as to render her opinion worthless. Regardless, what I did was focus on the latter and disregard the former, so make a NAWALT comment that ignored my first impression. Duly noted, and I appreciate you pointing out my error. "

You described her going into a full-on emotional conniption fit for at least 15 minutes. It utterly worked on her, regardless what sort of babbling came out of her mouth.

Anonymous Anonymous April 25, 2018 3:02 PM  

https://imgflip.com/memegenerator/136190983/old-bag-and-angel

For all of the Christians here.

Blogger M. Bibliophile April 25, 2018 3:03 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger M. Bibliophile April 25, 2018 3:14 PM  

Dirk Manly wrote:regardless what sort of babbling came out of her mouth.

Obviously, that's not the part he missed. Those particulars are irrelevant to this topic, but her response is not. That's what caught me by surprise, the direction rather than the vehemence (although that was a little surprising). Obviously the meme was effective, but the reaction raised the questions regarding targeting that I stated above. I suspect that tuning beyond a level a pedant like myself would consider to be far too broad is simply counterproductive.

Blogger Anno Ruse April 25, 2018 3:18 PM  

100 comments later and the meme is still shit. Vox, the meme is shit! Please stop! You're embarrassing yourself by not only making these shit memes, but defending them!

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener April 25, 2018 3:31 PM  

Do you people seriously not understand that rhetoric does not involve thinking? How can you possibly believe your opinion about rhetoric is even remotely relevant when you betray a total failure to even understand what it is or how it works?

I realize that meme artistry is about persuasion, not logic. With today's meme: who is the target audience, and what are they being persuaded to think or do?

Blogger ZaijiaN April 25, 2018 3:36 PM  

During the Sen Menendez newscycle, I heartily enjoyed Heartiste's campaign of "Open Borders for Hotties".

It's always nice to set two liberal camps against each other.

Anonymous Anonymous April 25, 2018 3:40 PM  

https://imgflip.com/i/29358u

For you Noah B

Anonymous Anonymous April 25, 2018 4:03 PM  

https://imgflip.com/i/29375o

Vox, would you consider this too high level?

Blogger Peter Gent April 25, 2018 4:04 PM  

FAT IS GOOD: For Diabetes, For Heart Disease, For Joint Replacement, For ...

Blogger Avalanche April 25, 2018 4:37 PM  

@72 "The point is not to argue against being fat. it's to argue against fat acceptance as a virtue."

To whom? All the not-fat people already KNOW that fat acceptance is flat-out b.s.! (And even it weren't, they're NOT going to find attractive nor accept fat people. That is a fundamental given. (So do the fat people know it's b.s., but they can get desperate for acceptance -- even if it's just acceptance by OTHER desperate fat people!)

You might get more (some?) traction if you (if one) memed an analogy to "fat = lack of health" and ... I dunno, "ciggies = lack of health"? I'm not good at memes either -- but I think knowing your audience -- and where you hope to move them -- also have to be considered in the strategy.

If it is your intent, by such a meme, to 'move' fat people to take care their health... then beating them down with "you're NOT acceptable!" is part of what creates the aggressive defensive reaction IN fat people. If you're hoping to get THIN people to quit joining in in pretending fat is acceptable... they already KNOW they're pretending! None of the thin folks pretending to accept fat people actually DATE fat people.

And, oh by the way -- have you not noticed that this objection to fat acceptance is directed mostly at fat women; not so much at fat men? So, appealing to them to give up on the 'acceptance' part won't move women, because being found acceptable underlies pretty much all women's psyches!

Blogger Avalanche April 25, 2018 4:39 PM  

On the other hand, I don't know -- maybe the audience doesn't matter. But I would think it does.

Blogger Avalanche April 25, 2018 4:41 PM  

@75 ""HEALTHY AT ANY WEIGHT" + peopleofwalmart.com"


I think this HAS to have the question mark:

"HEALTHY AT ANY WEIGHT?" + peopleofwalmart.com

Otherwise the impression is: you're suggesting THEY are (should be considered) 'healthy.'

Blogger Avalanche April 25, 2018 4:44 PM  

@82 "As Seattle Sutton, the no-nonsense weight-loss entrepreneur says: "I play no games. If you don't lose weight on a 1200 calorie diet, you're either cheating, or laying in a hospital in a coma""

Guess he (she?) forgets to mention that no one can live a long and healthy life on 1,200 cal a day. Or is it "get thin at ANY cost" including your present-day life and ability to DO things today, your fertility, and your longevity?

Blogger Avalanche April 25, 2018 4:45 PM  

@84 "SIGNIFICANTLY carbs out of your diet (carbs trigger the production of insulin, which makes you hungry), and replace them with animal fats.
...Eat accordingly."

EXACTLY -- -now try to get the medical profession (and insurance co's) to support -- or even ALLOW that!

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 25, 2018 4:56 PM  

@Avalanche
This discussion is not about you.

Blogger Dirk Manly April 25, 2018 5:05 PM  

@114

"Obviously, that's not the part he missed. Those particulars are irrelevant to this topic, but her response is not. That's what caught me by surprise, the direction rather than the vehemence (although that was a little surprising). Obviously the meme was effective, but the reaction raised the questions regarding targeting that I stated above. I suspect that tuning beyond a level a pedant like myself would consider to be far too broad is simply counterproductive.


Good Grief, dude. The reason she was trying to Discredit and Disqualify the "OMGZZZ!!!! STRIPPER!!!one!!!eleventy!!!" is because the level of JEALOUSY was making her literally batshit insane with ENVY.

If she wasn't Jealous as all hell about the hot "OMGZZZ!!!! STRIPPER!!!one!!!eleventy!!!" (whatever the model's actual occupation is), she wouldn't have spazzed out the way you told us she did.

Blogger S1AL April 25, 2018 5:13 PM  

I'm particularly fond of the line "Gluttony is still a sin."

(obligatory "your audience matters" caveat)

Blogger peppermint April 25, 2018 5:18 PM  

Avalanche, the primary points at which to hit the left are
* adipositivity, as well as all 20th century government-academic diet advice, are retarded and harmful
* the idea that opposite sex children can be created through mutilation is retarded and harmful
* college and the concept of higher and lower education is retarded and harmful

If you want diet advice, do the opposite of 20c advice. Meat, on a plate, with a fork and knife, and vegetables, and carbs if you're still hungry after getting your protein and fats.

Anonymous Anonymous April 25, 2018 5:37 PM  

BBGKB was just talking about pretty, not hot. I think Halle qualifies as pretty - that's a low bar to get over.

I am pretty sure I will never meet a black as smart (((as seen on TV))), I did work with a black doctor who malpraciticed himself to death.

Have any of you saying Berry is hot, ever seen her without makeup?
http://stylesatlife.com/articles/halle-berry-without-makeup/

If you really want to see something hideous see what Oprah looked like when she was turned down for a purse. She was wearing sweats with holes, no makeup bad hair. Don't look around mealtime.

Blogger Nate April 25, 2018 5:47 PM  

"EXACTLY -- -now try to get the medical profession (and insurance co's) to support -- or even ALLOW that!"

the medical world absolutely supports that. maybe try to listen to a doctor that's not 80 years old.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd April 25, 2018 5:54 PM  

Avalanche wrote:@84 "SIGNIFICANTLY carbs out of your diet (carbs trigger the production of insulin, which makes you hungry), and replace them with animal fats.

...Eat accordingly."

EXACTLY -- -now try to get the medical profession (and insurance co's) to support -- or even ALLOW that!


Taking your doctor's diet advice is likely to be a fatal mistake. If your doctor is lying to you about diet, you need to lie to him about what you eat.

Blogger I DontTroll April 25, 2018 6:00 PM  

Still kinda new and getting to know things around here... Showed the nurse meme to my wife and she promptly said "MmmHmmm." Then went topless.

Also, posted the meme to #HAES on the twitter. She then gave a muffled, dark snicker.

Thoughts?

All I can say at the moment is that I am well pleased.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd April 25, 2018 6:07 PM  

bgkoranburner wrote:Have any of you saying Berry is hot, ever seen her without makeup?

http://stylesatlife.com/articles/halle-berry-without-makeup/


Kind of harsh.

Ominous Cowherd wrote:I was saying that there exists one pretty black girl, although she's not very black, and not very pretty.

I think that still kind of fits. Pretty is a low standard that falls short of hot. Pretty is the natural state of a young, healthy, non-obese White girl. We don't see many Black girls who can get over that bar. Of course, Halle isn't very Black.

Blogger Lazarus April 25, 2018 6:08 PM  

But a lot more react emotionally to images of attractive young women.

This is why Goog Bots on twitter have pleasant looking young women for avatars.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd April 25, 2018 6:08 PM  

I DontTroll wrote:Showed the nurse meme to my wife and she promptly said "MmmHmmm." Then went topless.

Thoughts?


Good wife. Keep her.

Blogger Daniel Bendele April 25, 2018 6:22 PM  

VD said: "Do you people seriously not understand that rhetoric does not involve thinking? How can you possibly believe your opinion about rhetoric is even remotely relevant when you betray a total failure to even understand what it is or how it works?"

This is why as much as it's fun to mock the people talking about how great it is for Kanye to tweet pro-Trump stuff, we should really be taking advantage of opportunities like these. I'm not great with rhetoric, but I'm getting better and I'm really thankful for people like Vox and Cernovich who are teaching our side how to fight the culture war.

Blogger SciVo April 25, 2018 7:23 PM  

Mister Excitement wrote:I just had my first real Twitter duel with an SJW about 2 hours ago. "You have to go back" and "Fake American" are devastating.

I'm curious if it would be effective to add something like, "We have a word for people like you: twanloc. Those who are no longer our countrymen." That acronym really resonated with me when I learned it, because it speaks to a deep truth.

Now, I've observed that rhetoric often affects one side much more than the other, because emotional impact is naturally dependent on cognitive context; so for example, when leftists tried to counter #TriggerALiberalIn4Words with #TriggerAConservativeInTwoWords, they apparently thought "Hillary won" was a sick burn. It was a grand display of pathetic solipsism, as they utterly failed to get out of their own heads long enough to say something effective. (Conservatives can have the same problem, as regularly demonstrated by Twitchy.)

But to point out that we're irreparably divided, not even one People any more? That we see them not as disagreeable fellows, but as hostile and Not Us? That I would expect to cut both ways, and affect them as deeply as it did me.

Blogger VD April 25, 2018 8:52 PM  

Vox, would you consider this too high level?

Not for the target audience of people who pay attention to gun control.

Blogger PA Keystone April 25, 2018 9:24 PM  

Beautiful women and Americana is always effective.

Boy, wagon, golden retriever and the flag with the Trump quote, “Americans are Dreamers too.”

https://gab.ai/Brassmonkey3434/posts/19603476

Blogger Doktor Jeep April 26, 2018 7:15 AM  

That body positive meme was legend. Nice, simple, and a visual that makes a fat blue hair sputter in red frothing rage.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd April 26, 2018 10:15 AM  

PA Keystone wrote:Boy, wagon, golden retriever and the flag with the Trump quote, “Americans are Dreamers too.”

I like that. Encouraging for us, shouldn't scare the normies, might discombobulate the enemy.

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