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Tuesday, May 08, 2018

Mailvox: an answer to prayer

Apparently the ways of God are very mysterious indeed.
I have been following Jordan Peterson for the last year and his teachings really appealed to me. However, I kept having this nagging feeling that something wasn't right or some sense of danger. It bothered me that he was always cagey about if he was a Christian or not. All of the fellow Christians I know will tell you pretty quickly they are believers. So I prayed about it and asked that if he was a false prophet or a danger that he would be revealed. Within a few months of my first prayer, the Dark Lord turns his eye upon Jordan Peterson. Prayer answered!
Perhaps it is a coincidence or perhaps it is divine inspiration. But there is no need to take my opinion as given. The truth is out there. And by "truth", I mean Aristotelian Correspondence truth, not any of the many contradictory definitions provided by Peterson fans. I actually find myself getting increasingly annoyed with the uninformed Peterson fans who quite clearly have not sufficiently familiarized themselves with the teachings of their psycho-prophet and accuse me of doing nothing more than making groundless accusations which don't prove anything out of envy, ignorance, and malice.

The really strange thing about all of this is that I had no absolutely no interest in Jordan Peterson whatsoever. I knew he made videos and he'd written a bestseller, but I didn't even know what it was called. I was under the vague impression that the book that sounded a little like Hillary Clinton's book was the recent bestseller. All I knew is that he got it wrong about Ashkenazi mean IQ and then doubled down when he was called on it. Having previously done the relevant demographic math, I made my point in a matter of minutes - he was wrong and he had to know it - and would have happily left it at that were it not for the angry Jordan Peterson fans attacking me and claiming that the good doctor was a great Christian man dedicated to the truth and a saint who would never have done such a thing.

The more I looked into the man, the more falsehood I saw. Now I've seen that every time I quote the man, I am accused of misrepresenting, mischaracterizing, misleading, and lying by the very people who are denying that Jordan Peterson is what he himself claims to be. They will go so far as to claim that he doesn't really mean what he says, he doesn't really understand what he says, and he doesn't actually know what he is saying rather than take the man at his word and accept that he is not what they believe him to be.

Challenge accepted. If they require a conclusively damning case even the man's own wife can't deny, then I will give it to them. Deus vult, apparently.


Jordan Peterson is a conservative.

I abandoned the traditions that supported me, at about the same time I left childhood. This meant that I had no broader socially constructed “philosophy” at hand to aid my understanding as I became aware of the existential problems that accompany maturity. The final consequences ofthat lack took years to become fully manifest. In the meantime, however, my nascent concern with questions of moral justice found immediate resolution. I started working as a volunteer for a mildly socialist political party, and adopted the party line.

Economic injustice was at the root of all evil, as far as I was concerned. Such injustice could be rectified, as a consequence of the rearrangement of social organizations. I could play a part in that admirable revolution, carrying out my ideological beliefs....

I had attended several left-wing party congresses, as a student politician and active party worker. I hoped to emulate the socialist leaders. The left had a long and honorable history in Canada, and attracted some truly competent and caring people. However, I could not generate much respect for the numerous low-level party activists I encountered at these meetings. They seemed to live to complain. They had no career, frequently, and no family, no completed education—nothing but ideology. They were peevish, irritable, and little, in every sense of the word. I was faced, in consequence, with the mirror image of the problem I encountered on the college board: I did not admire many of the individuals who believed the same things I did. This additional complication furthered my existential confusion.

My college roommate, an insightful cynic, expressed skepticism regarding my ideological beliefs. He told me that the world could not be completely encapsulated within the boundaries of socialist philosophy. I had more or less come to this conclusion on my own, but had not admitted so much in words. Soon afterward, however, I read George Orwell's Road to Wigan Pier. This book finally undermined me—not only my socialist ideology, but my faith in ideological stances themselves. In the famous essay concluding that book (written for—and much to the dismay of—the British Left Book Club) Orwell described the great flaw of socialism, and the reason for its frequent failure to attract and maintain democratic power (at least in Britain). Orwell said, essentially, that socialists did not really like the poor. They merely hated the rich. His idea struck home instantly. Socialist ideology served to mask resentment and hatred, bred by failure. Many of the party activists I had encountered were using the ideals of social justice to rationalize their pursuit of personal revenge.

Whose fault was it that I was poor or uneducated and unadmired? Obviously, the fault of the rich, well-schooled and respected. How convenient, then, that the demands of revenge and abstract justice dovetailed! It was only right to obtain recompense from those more fortunate than me.

Of course, my socialist colleagues and I weren't out to hurt anyone. Quite the reverse. We were out to improve things—but we were going to start with other people. I came to see the temptation in this logic, the obvious flaw, the danger—but could also see that it did not exclusively characterize socialism. Anyone who was out to change the world by changing others was to be regarded with suspicion. The temptations of such a position were too great to be resisted.

It was not socialist ideology that posed the problem, then, but ideology as such.
- Maps of Meaning


Jordan Peterson is a Christian

Although I had grown up in a Christian environment—and had a successful and happy childhood, in at least partial consequence—I was more than willing to throw aside the structure that had fostered me. No one really opposed my rebellious efforts, either, in church or at home—in part because those who were deeply religious (or who might have wanted to be) had no intellectually acceptable counter-arguments at their disposal. After all, many of the basic tenets of Christian belief were incomprehensible, if not clearly absurd. The virgin birth was an impossibility; likewise, the notion that someone could rise from the dead.
- Maps of Meaning

Lott: Do you believe that Jesus rose again from the dead?"

Peterson: I cannot answer that question. And the reason is because... okay... let me think about that for a minute... see if I can come up with a reasonable answer for that. Well, the first answer would be: It depends on what you mean by Jesus.... I don't understand the structure of being well enough to make my way through the complexities of the resurrection story, I would say it's the most mysterious element of the biblical stories to me, and perhaps I'm not alone in that, it's the central drama in the Christian corpus let's say. But I don't believe that it's reasonable to boil it down to something like "do you believe that or do you not believe it", you know, it's not... I don't know what the limits... I don't know the limits of human possibility.
Am I Christian? Interview with Tim Lott.




Jordan Peterson's approach is that of a psychiatrist, not a philosopher or theologian

I am playing at the philosophical level, or maybe I'm playing at the theological level and what I am trying to do is say what I think as clearly as I possibly can and to listen to the feedback and modify my message when that seems to be necessary and apart from that I am willing to let the chips fall where they will.
- NBC interview


Jordan Peterson believes in God.

Q: How would you define your God? Do you believe in the supernatural? Do you pray?

A: My God is the spirit that is trying to elevate Being. My God is the spirit that makes everything come together. My God is the spirit that makes order out of chaos and then recasts order when it has become too limiting. My God is the spirit of truth incarnate. None of that is supernatural. It is instead what is most real. It depends on what you mean by pray. I don't ask God for favors, if that's what you mean.
- Reddit Ask Me Anything, 2017

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106 Comments:

Blogger NobobyExpects May 08, 2018 5:29 AM  

It will be interesting to watch a conversation between VD and John Wright on this topic.

Blogger dadofhomeschoolers May 08, 2018 5:33 AM  

There are none so blind as those who will not to see.

Blogger #6277 Hammer May 08, 2018 5:34 AM  

Don't underestimate the power of hatred. I suspect a lot of criticism you get is fueled more by wankers looking for every opportunity to discredit you rather than by support for JBP.

Blogger Phillip George May 08, 2018 5:39 AM  

Chuck Missler, a giant has fallen. While he wasn't as well known as Billy Graham, to eschatologists, UFOlogist he was heroic in his pursuit of transcendental yet empirical truth..

Mr Peterson might like to try one of his books. Perchance he is following this thread. Jesus risen from the dead isn't a mental construct.

Blogger Wanderer May 08, 2018 5:48 AM  

If Jordan Peterson is such a big fan of the Bible then perhaps he ought to familiarize himself with these passages:

"...know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God."
-James 4:4

"But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven."
-Matthew 10:33

Anonymous Anonymous May 08, 2018 6:02 AM  

"... They seemed to live to complain. They had no career, frequently, and no family, no completed education—nothing but ideology. They were peevish, irritable, and little, in every sense of the word.
... Many of the party activists I had encountered were using the ideals of social justice to rationalize their pursuit of personal revenge."


I can see why some think that Peterson is on the right as he claims to have seen the horrible nature of the social justice warriors even as a young man. And yet, that insight is not enough to justify thinking he is some great man.

After all, he jumps to "It was not socialist ideology that posed the problem, then, but ideology as such" which is saying that one should have no grounding at all. Just float with the latest fad?!?

No wonder that "Truth" has little meaning for the man.

Blogger Rick May 08, 2018 6:06 AM  

Does Peterson ever talk about projection?
Because it seems his defenders are quite attached to the image they project onto him (messianic).
He of all people should be aware what they are doing and if he were a genuine, serious seaker of the truth, their attachment and projections onto him should make him recoil. Not accept it and soldier on.

Anonymous Anonymous May 08, 2018 6:11 AM  

Thanks for doing the grunt work here, Vox. What a nutjob!

Blogger tz May 08, 2018 6:28 AM  

JBP is also a gift to Civic Nationalists.
His virtues are civic virtues, not cardinal virtues nor Christian virtues. And even his civic virtues are those for sheep, not real men.

Speaking of which David French Reviews the 12 Rules

This review explains why JPB is both popular and dangerous. Atheism and nihilism are less a threat to Christianity - though they can kill the body they do so because they can't kill the soul. This is another Luciferian heresy, a secular paganism. Ultimately a death cult wrapped in a cargo cult.

Blogger tublecane May 08, 2018 6:28 AM  

One thing everyone appears to agree upon is that Peterson helps lost and desperate young men. Maybe not in the long-run, but at least in the here and now, and at least the ones that don't know enough to stand up straight, clean their rooms, and take their pills.

Since Peterson talks so often of Dostoyevsky, I have been mulling over his novels recently. It occurs to me that the relationship between Peterson and his acolytes may be a bit like that between Ivan Karamazov and his half-brother Smerdyakov.

I heard Peterson describe Ivan briefly once, when he was going on about Dostoyevsky's negative capability to imagine the strongest possible argument against God, which he put into Ivan's mouth shortly before the famous Grand Inquisitor section. I don't remember what else he said about the book.

Ivan is a bit like Peterson in that he's fiendishly smart, full of radical ideas, and fond of playing around with people. He does a lot of posturing. One of his pastimes is to toy with his slower-witted, creepy half-brother Smerdyakov. Who is a lackey at best and the bastard product of the rape of a handicapped girl by Ivan's father, if I recall correctly.

Spoiler Alert, Smerdyakov kills their father because he mistakes Ivan for having taught him "everything is permitted." That they're beyond good and evil, and so forth. Now, Ivan isn't an atheist. He hates God and doesn't take morality seriously, but he never intended to make a murderer out of this cretin.

My point, I suppose, is that the Western world is full of Smerdyakovs. Pathetic and dangerous creatures apt to be misled by teachers of low or ambiguous morals. Ivans are much rarer, because MPAI. They bear great responsibility.

Ivan eventually has a nervous breakdown. People have been suspecting the same or worse might happen to Peterson. That could be because his public persona cracks, but maybe it will come from one of his lost souls getting more lost.

Blogger Jamie-R May 08, 2018 6:34 AM  

Alex Jones & Vox Day. Hahaha oh wow.

Sarah shot me a message when I was out, "Vox is on Infowars" After a string of 'oh boys' I didn't wait to get home, watched it on my phone. Figure it had to happen sooner or later.
And it looked like the ol' Thernobith creating conflict rule, because those comments were all Peterson fans going off about Infowars & Vox.
My favourite montage of comments mixed with my own thoughts goes something like this:
"HEY IT'S KOJAK GOING FIRE IN THE HOLE ON ALL THESE AUTISTIC JORDIE POOPERSON SHILLS OH WAIT THEY'RE ACTUALLY ALL GOOGLE BOTS PROGRAMMED TO ARGUE DON'T I LOOK THE FOOL DON'T WE ALL HAHAHA GOOD ONE YOU SOVIET HOLDOUT BRIN WE'RE JUST ALL GOYZ TO ZEN NOW THANKS TO JORDIE CAN I GET A MAINSTREAM HIGH FIVE YOU BETCHA"

Blogger Miguel May 08, 2018 6:37 AM  

Man, what a wimp. Why can't he just say "I don't believe in the Ressurrection"? This kind of nonsense is common among those who are eager "not to offend", even if they have to deny the truth and the Truth.

You are spot on about this guy, VD. He is a weak, fragile, and disonest personality.

Blogger Rick May 08, 2018 6:38 AM  

“Lott: Do you believe that Jesus rose again from the dead?"

Peterson: I cannot answer that question. And the reason is because... okay... let me think about that for a minute... see if I can come up with a reasonable answer for that.“

That last sentence is key. I don’t believe him. He already had an answer. He’s trying to manipulate the listener into thinking he is genuinely struggling with the concept. Live, right in front of you. So that you will too, right along with him. Seeds of doubt.
It’s something like the passive aggressive technique. I’ve seen this before. The feigned reasonable discussion with a leftist.

Blogger VD May 08, 2018 6:39 AM  

Does Peterson ever talk about projection?

He certainly engages in a considerable amount of it.

Anyone who was out to change the world by changing others was to be regarded with suspicion. The temptations of such a position were too great to be resisted.

Ahem... so, about your book, Jordy?

After all, he jumps to "It was not socialist ideology that posed the problem, then, but ideology as such" which is saying that one should have no grounding at all.

Exactly. A more rational man would have concluded that it was the socialist aspects that were wrong, not all ideologies ever conceived. Peterson's conclusion is literally illogical.

Blogger John (not the pope) May 08, 2018 6:39 AM  

"All who believe in the Son of God know in their hearts that this testimony is true. Those who don’t believe this are actually calling God a liar because they don’t believe what God has testified about his Son. And this is what God has testified: He has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son." 1 John 5:10-11

"The virgin birth was an impossibility; likewise, the notion that someone could rise from the dead."
And the foundations of all his thought crumble. Faker...Charlatan...

Blogger VD May 08, 2018 6:40 AM  

I don’t believe him. He already had an answer. He’s trying to manipulate the listener into thinking he is genuinely struggling with the concept.

Can anyone find him answering the same question in a similar way in a different setting? That would suffice to prove his dishonesty.

Blogger The Observer May 08, 2018 6:41 AM  

Does Peterson ever talk about projection?
Because it seems his defenders are quite attached to the image they project onto him (messianic).
He of all people should be aware what they are doing and if he were a genuine, serious seaker of the truth, their attachment and projections onto him should make him recoil. Not accept it and soldier on.


Gammas are exceptionally receptive to praise, as the SDL pointed out. He no doubt gets enough of a dopamine high from his fans that he's willing to turn a blind eye to it or rationalise it away.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums May 08, 2018 6:46 AM  

Sometimes I wish I were a fly on the wall in the Daily Wire HQ. I subscribed to them on YT mostly for Andrew Klavan. There was a pattern to his videos during the election: spoke his mind on Trump putting him in a favorable light saying things like "I don't like him but he's great at X, Y, Z", then in the next video he rolled back those compliments saying things like "what a world we live in if Trump's our best bet". I'm pretty sure Andrew's actual opinions are being kept in check by Ben Shapiro.

If this is the case, and if Jordan Peterson is starting to work with them, we should see the same thing happening to Peterson. And we do. Funny how he used to wave off the JQ as something he's not educated in and incapable of putting forth a valid opinion or flat out avoiding the question altogether to writing a whole article about it prior to announcing his partnership with Ben. Not only that but in his recent talks he flat-out attacks the Alt-Right directly, something he never ever did in the dozens and dozens of talks and interviews prior. Whenever the questioned came up he waved it off again as "I don't have enough information to make a valid statement". His demeanor also changed about the JQ and Alt-Right, from flat-out laughing about it (check his Patreon streams) to now angrily rebuking both.

That contract Jordan signed must have had some pretty weird stipulations.

Blogger Stilicho May 08, 2018 6:48 AM  

I suspect it is only a matter of time before some Jordanite goes all helter skelter. L Ron Peterson will be aghast, of course, but will remind us that ideology itself is to blame insofar as it claims to be based on truth. Since the only truth is subjective, is it good for me truth, ideology can only present false truth by definition. Rather Bob Marley meets Nietzsche: free yourselves from good and evil, none but ourselves can define our truth...

Blogger Johnny May 08, 2018 6:49 AM  

My quick take is that when Peterson starts talking about religion he is dissembling. So, is he confused or his he lying. Maybe a little of both, but pretty plainly ducking the am I a believer question. I guess it's if you can't clarify with fact, befuddle with bull shit.

Blogger GM May 08, 2018 6:52 AM  

He rejects socialism not because of an error in the economic theory, or even in the moral premises that are applied to, or implicit in, the economic theory, but because of the psychology of the socialists: losers out to do vengeful harm to the successful.

But then, presumably because he won't recognize that motivation in himself, he immediately goes here:

"Of course, my socialist colleagues and I weren't out to hurt anyone. Quite the reverse. We were out to improve things—but we were going to start with other people."

Which explains the bizarre equation of "ideology" with "trying to change other people." That is one of those definition bait and switches Vox points out, and in this case it is possible to see exactly how it serves to maintain the pain-reducing delusion bubble.

If you understand Vox's tools, all he has to do is quote the man to prove his point.

And the redefinition of "Jesus" is just over the top.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums May 08, 2018 6:56 AM  

@16

Check out Mister Metokur's video on him from a while back. It has a brief compilation of Peterson avoiding straight questions at 04:10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iFi4p4QC44

Blogger Rick May 08, 2018 6:57 AM  

He seems to be a confused thinker in general. The Chist subject is just one among other subjects his arguments are confused about. I don’t get the sense he approaches the Christ subject with the level of reverence a believer adopts instinctively. He doesn’t convey that reverence. And if he doesn’t, then it’s an exploitive argument.

Blogger urbino May 08, 2018 7:00 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Daniel Paul Grech Pereira May 08, 2018 7:02 AM  

Mentally disturbed, left wing extremist intellectual posers are ALL over the U of T campus. If they were any good, they wouldn't be in a university in Toronto.

Blogger Jamie-R May 08, 2018 7:08 AM  

All these intellectuals are the same. They want to be entirely reasonable & logical when lots of life simply isn't. It's the vanity of the mind. Who cares. I've wasted lots of my 20s arguing with such types, let them have their tartare sauce. They're all wankers.

Blogger VD May 08, 2018 7:11 AM  

That contract Jordan signed must have had some pretty weird stipulations.

And be signed in some pretty weird ink....

Blogger Rocklea Marina May 08, 2018 7:16 AM  

accusations which don't prove anything out of envy, ignorance, and malice.

For the Peterson fan to admit that your criticisms of Peanut Butter Jelly(PBJ, Were-Puppy's name for him) are legitimate, is to admit that they themselves have been duped. Blaming the person proving you've been duped, is easier and more satisfying to the ego.

Confession time. I was a Peterson fan. I liked his Bible series. I even liked the Sam Harris truth talk. I knew what he was doing, I knew, or thought I knew, that he was being deliberately belligerent, to drive home the point that there are deeper truths. At the time, we had the same sex marriage plebiscite in Australia, the vote, 60% in favour. Prior to that I had used an analogous argument to point out that in the States, same sex marriage is legal but not true. On this very blog! It does have good rhetorical value, especially when you point out to people that the family is the building block of society. It's also dialectic to a degree, in the same sense as Fake American.

I took what I wanted from his philosophy and made it my own. It's like Vox's comment a few threads back:

I repeat: Peterson provides highly compressed bullshit polished into a mirror that allows you to see what you want to see rather than what is actually there.

Prior to Vox taking an interest in Crazy Christ, I'd already lost mine. A combination of ditching Faith Goldy; she's actually standing up for the west; and his anti-nationalists stance, did it for me. I too, like the Peterson fanboys, actually enjoyed his miss-mashed ramblings, he is charismatic, intelligent and easy to listen to while your doing chores or whatever. Perhaps even cleaning your room.

If you are in the Jordanetics cult and your pissed at Vox, ask yourself, who are you really pissed at? When you figure that out, reassess and start paying attention to someone who really knows how to analyse something for what it is.

Blogger Uncle John's Band May 08, 2018 7:24 AM  

There are so many self-contradictions stemming from the need to justify drawing "objective" order (objective enough to write down as rules) from his disordered subjectivity.

His writing acknowledges the impact of external factors on his development, and his positions seem to be reactive (not surprising given how fearful he is), rather than guided by anything. Because his "truth" is internally generated AND externally responsive, there is no possibility of consistency. His solipsism prevents him from reflecting on externalities in a meaningful way, while the externalities prevent him from developing any sort of internal constancy.

The contrast between his subject matter and lack of self-awareness is striking. He would have been much better off in an era where his past statements weren't so easy to find.

Blogger Rocklea Marina May 08, 2018 7:43 AM  

Jordan Peterson-Do you believe in God?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPIh1xQiuI8

Here is the top comment on the video:

Can totally see Jordan's point here. People often ask me what I do for a living, at which point I must ask them what they mean by 'do' and 'living' at a higher level of analysis. This usually buys me enough time to avoid explaining to my girlfriend's parents that I'm unemployed.

Blogger OGRE May 08, 2018 7:49 AM  

@24 urbino

thanks for that link. Thats a damn near occultic view, at the least its Hinduistic. Its always the same though isn't it? Denying God while trying to elevate man into godhood.

Blogger Rick May 08, 2018 7:52 AM  

Peterson’s fans would be better served by Stephen Covey’s book “7 Habits”.

It’s brief, doesn’t constantly go in nine different directions and tangents at once, it’s reduced to the essentials, and not constantly self-referential. I don’t think Covey ever talks about himself.

It was hugely popular, and Covey made quite a good living off it. He kept hammering that drum likely because that self-help book can’t be improved upon (for the kind of book it is).
You can over-think these things. Peterson does. 7 Habits is eye-openingly simple and the reader comes away thinking (rightly) that he knew all these things already.
I think Peterson’s fans are attracted to the “secret knowledge”.

Blogger tz May 08, 2018 7:56 AM  

@10 It wouldn't be incorrect to say the Pickup Artist portion of the Manosphere also helps young men avoid problems (clean up planet zarg from the dudates) and to build many short term intimate relationships with women. But it, too, is nihilistic.

Peterson's is also version of nihilism - that is the correrct word for moral, much less existentital relativism, for if AAA truth doesn't exist, nothing else does either. But it is a prettier, nicer, and more useful nihilism than PUAism. A stoic "clean your room for tomorrow we die" instead of the epicurean "eat, drink, and be merry".

But instead of being fulfilling, or even filling, he prescribes both pills (which aren't placebos yet cover symptoms instead of curing the disease0, and busywork. Don't go on to algebra and calculus, do your times tables very well.

Blogger guardianDogg May 08, 2018 8:22 AM  

On one past interview on the Joe Rogan podcast, Mr. Peterson got into a discussion about religion with Joe. Joe was pretty confused about Peterson's view on whether or not Peterson even was a Christian or believed in God. Mr. Peterson wasn't being very direct or plain speaking about the matter.

Joe however ended up articulating Mr. Peterson's beliefs back to him to bring clarity to what Peterson was saying. Simple put, Peterson doesn't really believe or even know the God of the bible he believes that it's all a metaphor for or evolutionary "truth" about moral metaphysical "truths" pasted down through evolution or at least that's how I understood Joe explain it and Mr. Peterson did not deny it so I knew he wasn't a Christian.

Number Three rules in Christianity: You have to believe that Christ existed. You have to believe Christ died on a Cross. You have to believe that Christ rose from the grave by the power of GOD and these beliefs have to be based on reality. Not just some evolutionary "moral truths" otherwise Christianity has no power and is worthless.

Blogger Markku May 08, 2018 8:23 AM  

"It depends on what you mean by Jesus...."

THAT, it does.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
4 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.

Blogger Nate May 08, 2018 8:28 AM  

i don't get where the idea that JP was Christian even came from. I'm not a fan but I've seen a lot of clips of him here and there. It never crossed my mind that he could be Christian.

Blogger Rick May 08, 2018 8:28 AM  

Sounds like his view of Christ is similar to Islam’s: a swell guy (thumbs up morals), but not who he says he is (a liar).

Blogger VD May 08, 2018 8:33 AM  

Can totally see Jordan's point here. People often ask me what I do for a living, at which point I must ask them what they mean by 'do' and 'living' at a higher level of analysis. This usually buys me enough time to avoid explaining to my girlfriend's parents that I'm unemployed.

Exactly. Now we just need to find him saying something akin to the following anytime previous to this interview which was posted in May 2017.

Strangely enough just as we were talking, I, the answer to that question popped into my head. I act as if God exists. Now, you can decide for yourself whether that means whether that I believe in him, so to speak, but I act as if he exists so that's a good enough answer for that.

Strangely indeed. What are the odds?

Blogger Rocklea Marina May 08, 2018 8:37 AM  

"Strangely enough just as we were talking, I, the answer to that question popped into my head."

Yep, and, and your right about that tell too.

Blogger MendoScot May 08, 2018 8:40 AM  

Replace "Being" with "Becoming" and he could be playing Buffalo Bill to your Red Dragon.

Blogger S1AL May 08, 2018 8:45 AM  

That definition he have for God sounds suspiciously close to the one supplied by Hitler, among others.

Blogger Resident Moron™ May 08, 2018 8:48 AM  

I had a long running debate with a former acquisition over the self-contradictory position of the most venerated of Darwinist evangelists.

When I gave her the very long list of quotes from them openly admitting that metaphysical naturalism is an indefensible predisposition she said only two words;

“Quote mining!”

She said it like quoting people is some kind of malign assault on reason and decency, both.

Quote mining, Vox.

That’s next.

Blogger Resident Moron™ May 08, 2018 8:49 AM  

acquisition = acquaintance

Blogger riffer73 May 08, 2018 8:54 AM  

Rick May 08, 2018 7:52 AM

Peterson’s fans would be better served by Stephen Covey’s book “7 Habits”.

I have been thinking about that, as 7 habits had a major positive impact in my life. What I found really strange about 7 habits was the cult like following around it that Covey took full advantage of. I often had to explain to people that it is just a book with some pretty good advice and a workable framework to turn the advice into action. I see the same "guruism" infecting the Peterson stuff.

Blogger FUBARwest May 08, 2018 8:54 AM  

"That definition he have for God sounds suspiciously close to the one supplied by Hitler, among others."

It's odd that for someone who hates Hitler so much. He came up with underpinning ideas that sound so similar, and allow for justification for the actions he disapproves of.

How does someone with a near 160 IQ come to the conclusion that "Do what thou wilt..." is ever a good idea?

Blogger VD May 08, 2018 8:56 AM  

That definition he have for God sounds suspiciously close to the one supplied by Hitler, among others.

Which is what, precisely.

That could be an interesting game of quotes: Hitler or Peterson.

Blogger Diego Destiny May 08, 2018 8:56 AM  

More evidence, not that any was needed, that Peterson, Shapiro and others are being set up as intellectual leaders and gatekeepers.

Blogger VD May 08, 2018 9:03 AM  

How does someone with a near 160 IQ come to the conclusion that "Do what thou wilt..." is ever a good idea?

In most cases, there is someone the high-IQ individual wants to have sex with someone with whom he can't have sex without embracing the concept.

Given Peterson's account of his dreams, I'd look very hard at his relationship with his cousin Diane, who appears to have been the subject of his gamma obsession.

Blogger Matiss Zarkevics May 08, 2018 9:10 AM  

> It was not socialist ideology that posed the problem, then, but ideology as such.

What happens when "removal of all ideologies" becomes an ideology? Not only is the statement illogical, as others have noted, it's an impossible goal.

Blogger OGRE May 08, 2018 9:17 AM  

FUBARwest wrote:It's odd that for someone who hates Hitler so much. He came up with underpinning ideas that sound so similar, and allow for justification for the actions he disapproves of.


Its because they are coming from the same philosophical background. Nietzsche and Darwin, among others.

Blogger VD May 08, 2018 9:18 AM  

More evidence, not that any was needed, that Peterson, Shapiro and others are being set up as intellectual leaders and gatekeepers.

That makes it official who is the Fake Opposition. And now we know the name of the new New Atheists: The Intellectual Dark Web. They even have the requisite pictures on a black background, same as last time.

It doesn't look as if there is a single Christian among them.

Blogger #7139 May 08, 2018 9:23 AM  

It doesn't look as if there is a single Christian among them.

Gosh, darn it, Vox. You aren’t supposed to notice that.

Blogger Markku May 08, 2018 9:28 AM  

Moralistic therapeutic deism (MTD) (...)
Definition (...)
1 A god exists who created and ordered the world and watches over human life on earth.
2 God wants people to be good, nice, and fair to each other, as taught in the Bible and by most world religions.
3 The central goal of life is to be happy and to feel good about oneself.
4 God does not need to be particularly involved in one's life except when God is needed to resolve a problem.
5 Good people go to heaven when they die.

Blogger OGRE May 08, 2018 9:30 AM  

Matiss Zarkevics wrote:What happens when "removal of all ideologies" becomes an ideology? Not only is the statement illogical, as others have noted, it's an impossible goal.

Thats the end goal. JP rails on and on about 'tribalism' whether its racial, ethnic, intellectual, religious, etc.

How do you eradicate tribalism? You breed ethnic and racial distinctions out of existence, hence the love of immigration. You integrate all beliefs and perspectives into a single worldview. You create a pseudo-religion that purports to offer meaning and value to everyone--even the atheist--so that religious distinctions no longer matter. You promote excessive individualism so that the only distinctions are at the individual level and there are no tribes left...just the one tribe, the one ideology, the one religion, the one people, the one spirit.

Blogger Peter Gent May 08, 2018 9:31 AM  

"Orwell said, essentially, that socialists did not really like the poor. They merely hated the rich."

That is because socialism is the ideology of envy. That is also why they hate God, since the true leader of all atheists, which socialists tend to be, hates God also, because he was envious of Him and has worked to usurp Him ever since the sin blossomed in his heart.

Blogger Uncle John's Band May 08, 2018 9:32 AM  

@ 47. Diego Destiny

"More evidence, not that any was needed, that Peterson, Shapiro and others are being set up as intellectual leaders and gatekeepers."

Might as well just kiss them on the forehead.

To steal an old line from Bill Simmons, there's comedy, there's high comedy, and then there's the NYT declaring the "Intellectual Dark Web".

Blogger JuliusEvola.co May 08, 2018 9:36 AM  

https://www.reddit.com/r/JordanPeterson/comments/8htlgs/peterson_exposed_and_destroyed_by_famous/

The Reddit thread is still going strong. Seems like the JBP sub favors you.

Blogger FUBARwest May 08, 2018 9:37 AM  

"More evidence, not that any was needed, that Peterson, Shapiro and others are being set up as intellectual leaders and gatekeepers."

Who thought those pictures were a good idea? They all come off as cringey, staged, and pretentious. Same with the name.

"I'd look very hard at his relationship with his cousin Diane"

Disturbing thought. I wonder what Jung says about dreams involving dogs eating your cousin and sharing her with you.

Blogger Cloom Glue May 08, 2018 9:44 AM  

VD wrote:I don’t believe him. He already had an answer. He’s trying to manipulate the listener into thinking he is genuinely struggling with the concept.

Can anyone find him answering the same question in a similar way in a different setting? That would suffice to prove his dishonesty.


Search on youtube "peterson christ resurrection". Many videos come up. I do not have time to view them now.

Blogger pyrrhus May 08, 2018 9:48 AM  

I'll give Peterson several Brownie points for discussing the impact on him of The Road to Wigan Pier, which was written by a far greater thinker....Peterson is an intellectual, but unfortunately a rootless one..May he see the light...

Blogger Uncle John's Band May 08, 2018 9:48 AM  

@ 52. #7139

"It doesn't look as if there is a single Christian among them.

Gosh, darn it, Vox. You aren’t supposed to notice that"

People get confused because left and right are historically contingent; they change with political and cultural circumstances over time: communism/capitalism, empiricism/SJW, freedom/collectivism and so on. But they invariably pit some form of radical human perfectibility against a Western tradition that is both organic (natural, empirical) and Christian. Politics are transient - if there is a more timeless essence of the right it is the unique blend of scientific (for want of a better word) realism and Christian faith that allowed the West to happen. Whatever policy differences exist between the IDW and their globalist facilitators is inconsequential in the actual battle that matters.

Just a new front in an ageless anti-Western assault.

Blogger The Deuce May 08, 2018 9:53 AM  

I don’t believe him. He already had an answer. He’s trying to manipulate the listener into thinking he is genuinely struggling with the concept.

Agreed. I saw that clip of him giving that answer to the resurrection question months, and have been wary of him since. I didn't know much about Peterson, but I did know that he has been doing Biblical "analysis" for years and years. There is absolutely no way that he hadn't thought about the resurrection and the possibility of being asked about his opinion on it many times prior to being asked that question. As he says, it's THE central tenet of Christianity.

And that means that he planned ahead to give an obscurantist, unintelligible non-answer while pretending that he was thinking it through on the spot. It "depends on what you mean by Jesus"? Wtf? That's Clintonian-level "it depends on what the meaning of 'is' is" sophistry from a guy telling people to be honest.

Blogger S1AL May 08, 2018 9:56 AM  

"Which is what, precisely.

That could be an interesting game of quotes: Hitler or Peterson."

I'll have to dig it up - I came across it in 'Hitler's Table Talk'. There's a similar one from Ghandi, amusingly enough... I'll put them in here once I've found them.

Blogger Brick Hardslab May 08, 2018 9:57 AM  

They're dangerous because while the sandwich is made with high quality ingredients and is presented beautifully, at least one of those ingredients is poison.

Probably why he hems and haws about it too. Is there poison? It depends on what the word poison means. You can eat too much of anything and not everyone is affected the same way. And so on.

Blogger Markku May 08, 2018 9:59 AM  

There is only the historical individual called Jesus of Nazareth, and then there's that "Other Jesus" that Paul mentioned, whom people will accept "readily enough". It's pretty clear from that qualification, which Jesus we're talking about.

Blogger McJibblits May 08, 2018 10:05 AM  

I agree with you. Civic nationalists know they've been in a losing battle since Vietnam. JBP has given them hope that maybe the alt-right is not as inevitable as they think. Bad philosophy aside, the important thing they are missing is that a VERY small portion of the US population can understand even a glimmer of his message. JBP is preacher to a miniscule choir.

Blogger VD May 08, 2018 10:06 AM  

Vox Day Exposes Jordan Peterson And The Left’s Plan To Take Control Of The Nationalist Movement

15,069 views

679 + 743 -

46 percent is not bad, considering that when I first posted about the subject, about 85 percent of those here on this blog disagreed with me. And that New York Times article anointing Peterson as one of the approved Fake Opposition is exactly what Alex and I were talking about.


Blogger McJibblits May 08, 2018 10:10 AM  

He really isn't even trying to hide it. One of his "rules" is "try to tell the truth, and at least don't lie." He can barely keep the smirk off of his face when people ask him direct questions about his belief in a literal God.

Blogger S1AL May 08, 2018 10:10 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Jamie-R May 08, 2018 10:12 AM  

Alex Jones You Tube channel may no longer be blocked due to 'errors by not properly trained staff' but it gets the bulk of AI treatment from Google. There's no way the people commenting are all human, especially when you consider that they must protect their set ups.

Blogger S1AL May 08, 2018 10:12 AM  

(Corrected: one quote was in the wrong place)

Gandhi:

*'For everyone has faith in himself and that multiplied to the nth degree is God. The sum total of all that lives is God.'



'I came to the conclusion long ago . . . that all religions were true and also that all had some error in them'

'I worship God as Truth only.'


Hitler:

'Finally, I would like to say something to those people who keep talking to me about religion: I am also religious, profoundly religious on the inside, and I believe that Providence weighs us human beings.'

'We must seize the evil in Germany by the root and tear it out, to make way for true socialism, for the new faith, for the new religion.'

*'Man has discovered in nature the wonderful notion of that all-mighty being whose law he worships. Fundamentally in everyone there is the feeling for this all-mighty, which we call God (that is to say, the dominion of natural laws throughout the whole universe).'

*'It's a fact that we're feeble creatures, and that a creative force exists. To seek to deny it is folly. In that case, it's better to believe something false than not to believe anything at all.'

Blogger S1AL May 08, 2018 10:13 AM  

I think you could take any of the starred quotes, especially the last one, and attach Peterson's name with none the wiser.

Blogger Jamie-R May 08, 2018 10:15 AM  

Part of Alex Jones appeal is his passionate rhetoric wrapped in theatrically delivered emotion, but did he apologise for saying 'f Trump & Trump's family'? He should go on air & clearly apologise for it. Trump doesn't deserve it, Jones can easily walk it back. Trump is battling every battalion evil has got, gotta give him some leeway.

Blogger McJibblits May 08, 2018 10:16 AM  

I like both Peterson and Vox. Peterson makes for a really good companion to Taleb, if you are interested in order/chaos in life. Although Peterson screams "practicality" Taleb has him in spades here. Take one look at Peterson's life, and tell me how his philosophy is working out. However, Peterson more or less admits as much (if you can see through his cagey message). Now I still like the guy. He is aiming for the moon and missing. That's admirable.

Blogger S1AL May 08, 2018 10:17 AM  

The most fascinating part to me is how firmly Hitler insisted publicly regarding the truth of Christianity, while privately calling it a Jewish invention, Bolshevik, and inferior to Japanese ancestor worship and 'heroic' Islam.

Hm. Why does that first part sound familiar?

Blogger VD May 08, 2018 10:19 AM  

Update: there are two videos that are essentially the same. Total current vote is:

806 + 800 -

Not bad for starters.

Blogger Resident Moron™ May 08, 2018 10:27 AM  

That last one particularly is very JBP

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 08, 2018 10:39 AM  

acquisition = acquaintance
I like acqiusition better.

Blogger Resident Moron™ May 08, 2018 10:42 AM  

But on that point; there’s never been a man who didn’t believe anything at all. That choice isn’t on the menu available to us.

Our only choices are who to believe. Like the man said, it might be the devil or it might be the Lord, but you’re gonna have to serve somebody.

Blogger S1AL May 08, 2018 10:48 AM  

Yeah, I'm not judging the validity of the statements, merely the odd similarity in sentiment and phrasing. If I've become convinced of anything by seeing this come up over and over again, it's that this warning was correct:

"By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already."

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 08, 2018 10:50 AM  

"It depends on what you mean by Jesus...."
"Who do men say that I am?"

Blogger OGRE May 08, 2018 10:51 AM  

@80 S1AL

1 John 4, exactly

Blogger John Regan May 08, 2018 10:54 AM  

It is a bit serendipitous that I was discussing the same ideas just in the month or so before VD began his critique of Peterson. Such as here:

https://strikelawyer.wordpress.com/2018/03/14/epistemology-101/

And here:

https://strikelawyer.wordpress.com/2018/03/07/nietzsche-redux-and-the-tyranny-of-the-incoherent/

I have nieces and nephews who have followed the Peterson lectures and so on for quite a while, but I've not gotten around to getting any feedback from them in view of VD's recent posts.

In any case, it's an interesting debate from my perspective.

Anonymous Anonymous May 08, 2018 11:17 AM  

The most troubling comment for me occurs just moments before that question from Lott.

Lott: "Quick question: are you a christian?"
Peterson: "I suppose the most straightforward answer to that question is 'Yes'."


Of course, Peterson is being the exact opposite of "straightforward" with that answer.

I like you, Jordan. But listen to me, motherf@$%er: you don't get to go around changing the definition of 'Christian' to suit your addled brain in defiance of 2000 years of history and sacred tradition.

You want to tell my kid to clean his room? Great. Have at it. You want to attack SJW's? Love it. Do more of it.

You want to tell my kid that he can reject the resurrection but still call himself a christian? Go F yourself.

Anonymous Anonymous May 08, 2018 11:26 AM  

One of the fishy things I noticed about Jordan Peterson was that in a few of his videos he recommended the average person NOT read Maps of Meaning because it is such "a difficult read", and that 12 Rules is a better option.

Now I fully understand why.

Blogger Kang May 08, 2018 11:35 AM  

"Yet he hath ever but slenderly known himself."

Peterson collects communist art, he maye think it's ironic, or shows he's antifascist, but c'mon.

It's just damn creepy.

I suspect there is much he doesn't know about himself that is equally creepy.

Blogger Colin Flaherty's baby momma May 08, 2018 12:31 PM  

Adolf Peterson:
"A man who knows a thing, who is aware of a given danger, and sees the possibility of a remedy with his own eyes, has the duty and obligation, by God, not to work 'silently,' but to stand up before the whole public against the evil and for its cure.
.
.
"It must be noted too that the attack on the dogmatic principles underlying ecclesiastical teaching increased steadily in violence. And yet this human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existence of a religious belief. The great masses of a nation are not composed of philosophers. For the masses of the people, especially faith is absolutely the only basis of a moral outlook on life. The various substitutes that have been offered have not shown any results that might warrant us in thinking that they might usefully replace the existing denominations. But if religious teaching and religious faith were once accepted by the broad masses as active forces in their lives, then the absolute authority of the doctrines of faith would be the foundation of all practical effort. There may be a few hundreds of thousands of superior men who can live wisely and intelligently without depending on the general standards that prevail in everyday life, but the millions of others cannot do so.

Now the place which general custom fills in everyday life corresponds to that of general laws in the State and dogma in religion. The purely spiritual idea is of itself a changeable thing that may be subjected to endless interpretations. It is only through dogma that it is given a precise and concrete form without which it could not become a living faith. Otherwise the spiritual idea would never become anything more than a mere metaphysical concept, or rather a philosophical opinion. Accordingly the attack against dogma is comparable to an attack against the general laws on which the State is founded. And so this attack would finally lead to complete political anarchy if it were successful, just as the attack on religion would lead to a worthless religious nihilism."
.
.
"By helping to raise man above the level of bestial vegetation, faith contributes in reality to the securing and safeguarding of his existence. Take away from present-day mankind its education-based, religious-dogmatic principles-- or, practically speaking, ethical-moral principles-- by abolishing this religious education, but without replacing it by an equivalent, and the result will be a grave shock to the foundations of their existence.

Blogger Colin Flaherty's baby momma May 08, 2018 12:34 PM  

Adolf Peterson:
"The political leader should not estimate the worth of a religion by taking some of its shortcomings into account, but he should ask himself whether there be any practical substitute in a view which is demonstrably better. Until such a substitute be available only fools and criminals would think of abolishing the existing religion.
.
.
"Undoubtedly no small amount of blame for the present unsatisfactory religious situation must be attributed to those who have encumbered the ideal of religion with purely material accessories and have thus given rise to an utterly futile conflict between religion and science. In this conflict victory will nearly always be on the side of science, even though after a bitter struggle, while religion will suffer heavily in the eyes of those who cannot penetrate beneath the mere superficial aspects of science.

But the greatest damage of all has come from the practice of debasing religion as a means that can be exploited to serve political interests, or rather commercial interests. The impudent and loud-mouthed liars who do this make their profession of faith before the whole world in stentorian tones so that all poor mortals may hear – not that they are ready to die for it if necessary but rather that they may live all the better. They are ready to sell their faith for any political quid pro quo. For ten parliamentary mandates they would ally themselves with the Marxists, who are the mortal foes of all religion. And for a seat in the Cabinet they would go the length of wedlock with the devil, if the latter had not still retained some traces of decency.

The consequences of that situation had to be borne by the whole nation; for the laxity that resulted in religious life set in at a juncture when everything was beginning to lose hold and vacillate and the traditional foundations of custom and of morality were threatening to fall asunder.

Yet all those cracks and clefts in the social organism might not have been dangerous if no grave burdens had been laid upon it; but they became disastrous when the internal solidarity of the nation was the most important factor in withstanding the storm of big events."

Blogger Colin Flaherty's baby momma May 08, 2018 12:36 PM  

Adolf Peterson:
"Altogether we cannot be too sharp in condemning the absurd notion that geniuses can be born from general elections. In the first place, a nation only produces a real statesman once in a blue moon and not a hundred or more at once; and in the second place, the revulsion of the masses for every outstanding genius is positively instinctive.
Sooner will a camel pass through a needle's eye than a great man be ' discovered' by an election.
.
"The Western democracy of today is the forerunner of Marxism which without it would not be thinkable. It provides this world plague with the culture in which its germs can spread.
.
"Parallel to the training of the body a struggle against the poisoning of the soul must begin. Our whole public life today is like a hothouse for sexual ideas and simulations. Just look at the bill of fare served up in our movies, vaudeville and theaters, and you will hardly be able to deny that this is not the right kind of food, particularly for the youth...

Theater, art, literature, cinema, press, posters, and window displays must be cleansed of all manifestations of our rotting world and placed in the service of a moral, political, and cultural idea.
.
.
"The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine. Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, while our present-day party Christians debase themselves to begging for Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles with atheistic Jewish parties-- and this against their own nation.

Blogger The Sasquatch May 08, 2018 12:51 PM  

"No one really opposed my rebellious efforts, either, in church or at home—in part because those who were deeply religious (or who might have wanted to be) had no intellectually acceptable counter-arguments at their disposal."

1 Peter 3:15 for all the parents out there who do not wish to see their children fall away from the faith.

Anonymous Anonymous May 08, 2018 1:00 PM  

And like clockwork, I've run into the 'quote-mining' defence.

'so we agree he cherry picks to bolster his "argument".'

They're not sending their best.

Blogger Colin Flaherty's baby momma May 08, 2018 1:02 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Colin Flaherty's baby momma May 08, 2018 1:03 PM  

Jordan Hitlerson:
"The greatness of Christianity did not lie in attempted negotiations for compromise with any similar philosophical opinions in the ancient world, but in its inexorable fanaticism in preaching and fighting for its own doctrine.
.
.
"Christianity could not content itself with building up its own altar; it was absolutely forced to undertake the destruction of the heathen altars. Only from this fanatical intolerance could its apodictic faith take form; this intolerance is, in fact, its absolute presupposition.
.
.
"For how shall we fill people with blind faith in the correctness of a doctrine, if we ourselves spread uncertainty and doubt by constant changes in its outward structure?
...Here, too, we can learn by the example of the Catholic Church. Though its doctrinal edifice, and in part quite superfluously, comes into collision with exact science and research, it is none the less unwilling to sacrifice so much as one little syllable of its dogmas... it is only such dogmas which lend to the whole body the character of a faith.
.
.
"It doesn't dawn on this depraved bourgeois world that this is positively a sin against all reason; that it is criminal lunacy to keep on drilling a born half-ape until people think they have made a lawyer out of him, while millions of members of the highest culture-race must remain in entirely unworthy positions; that it is a sin against the will of the Eternal Creator if His most gifted beings by the hundreds and hundreds of thousands are allowed to degenerate in the present proletarian morass, while Hottentots and Zulu Kaffirs are trained for intellectual professions."
.
.
"Here, of course, we encounter the objection of the modern pacifist, as truly Jewish in its effrontery as it is stupid! 'Man's role is to overcome Nature!'"

Blogger Mocheirge May 08, 2018 1:19 PM  

My God is the spirit that makes order out of chaos and then recasts order when it has become too limiting.

How does that differ from an Usurper who wants to shape the world to fit his desires and is never satisfied with the result?

Blogger S1AL May 08, 2018 1:32 PM  

It's certainly reminiscent of several sky gods from the world's various pantheons, particularly Marduk.

Blogger michimartini May 08, 2018 2:12 PM  

I think the correct notation is "%s/acquisition/acquaintance/g"
;-)

Blogger stevo May 08, 2018 3:07 PM  

I am perplexed by this whole thing. If you had asked me 2 weeks ago which internet thinkers I trusted most I would have said JPB and Vox. While I ended up a vox fan simply because as far as I can tell he's almost never wrong. JBP has blown my mind about my own life. What he's saying may not be new but it sure has been news to me. My theory (possibly wishful thinking) that his evasiveness about being a Christian is simply to avoid more trouble. Doesn't sound very noble when put like that. Anyhow at least Vox has chosen a worthy opponent.

Blogger Matthew May 08, 2018 3:57 PM  

michimartini wrote:I think the correct notation is "%s/acquisition/acquaintance/g"

;-)


Vim or die.

Blogger tublecane May 08, 2018 4:10 PM  

@79- It took me a while (being self-taught and haphazardly taught at that) to get a grip on what nihilism meant to the 19-century Russian. Which is necessary to understand Turgenev, Dostoyevsky, and so forth. It might be useful to look into that, considering the influence exerted upon Peterson by Dostoyevsky.

The Current Year standard definition of nihilism would be someone who believes in nothing. Which is of course impossible. A fallback definition might be someone who has no consistent beliefs. Which is possible, and may be accurate description of Peterson. But it doesn't really fit the term.

The common old Russian definition I want to say was someone who rejects all authority. That's not possible, either. As you say, gotta serve somebody. The protagonist of Turgenev's Fathers and Sons, usually described as a nihilist, is actually a materialist interested in medical science.

Maybe it meant someone who rejected the prevailing authority in society at the time. Which would make nihilists sort of intellectual outlaws.

Peterson does not pose as an outlaw. He instead throws in for Order. But it's a funny sort of order, tying himself to an ill-defined natural authority. The Necessity of Germ-plasm, or whatever.

Yet he's simultaneously infected with reality-denying pragmatism and perspectivism. So it just comes out as arbitrariness. Is that Peterson's belief system after all: not nihilism but arbitrary whimism?

Blogger Resident Moron™ May 08, 2018 5:02 PM  

Bloody nerd critics :)

Blogger Were-Puppy May 08, 2018 6:52 PM  

@71 S1AL

'We must seize the evil in Germany by the root and tear it out, to make way for true socialism, for the new faith, for the new religion.'
---

I get a chuckle from this. Every so often i'll see an online post somewhere with a bitter, angry LARP crying and complaining how idiots could ever think Hitler was on the left and a socialist.

Blogger Were-Puppy May 08, 2018 6:53 PM  

@73 Jamie-R

but did he apologise for saying 'f Trump & Trump's family'?
---

If you mean when he flipped out about that recent Syrian bombing over a false flag chem attack, yes he did. It was early in the next week.

Blogger Karl May 08, 2018 11:24 PM  

We're probably at the bouncing the rubble stage at this point, but I thought this interview Peterson had with America magazine (Jesuits) was revealing. Of course, America is Catholic the same way Peterson is conservative.

https://www.americamagazine.org/arts-culture/2018/04/27/jordan-peterson-interview-preaching-professor

"Mr. Peterson is hesitant to make any claims about the divinity of the New Testament’s main player, concerning himself solely with Jesus’ archetypal image and its implications for personal behavior.

"Q:How can the church be brought up to date with its traditions intact?

"That’s what I’m trying to do, to not say, “Those were rules for people who we have nothing in common with, and everything is different now.” I don’t believe that. I think that the fundamental traditions that the Catholic Church espouses are correct. At least they’re correct compared to most conceivable alternatives.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 09, 2018 12:58 AM  

Interesting. By a strange coincidence, Tablet Magazine was recently kvetching about the SPLC, and how they really need to stop attacking... some of the same figures that your NYT link is trying so hard to promote as the vanguard of the "Intellectual Dark Web."

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/260735/splc-klan-hunters-to-smear-machine

Funny how that works.

Blogger Avalanche May 09, 2018 5:59 AM  

@44 "the cult like following around it that Covey took full advantage of."

Well, if you can't or won't follow God -- you GOTTA follow someone! Peterson, Covey, Oprah, the obamination.... someone has to be leading this parade!

Blogger Avalanche May 09, 2018 6:02 AM  

@45 "It's odd that for someone who hates Hitler so much. He came up with underpinning ideas that sound so similar, and allow for justification for the actions he disapproves of."

OR he finds the Hitler version of reality so attractive or persuasive that he has to resist it by both believing it and teaching that "it's anathema and shouldn't or shouldbn't or should or shou... I'm not sure what I believe or what truth even is, but take your pills for god'... oh, for your own sake!

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