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Thursday, May 31, 2018

Mailvox: Hope for Generation Zyklon

A reader sends in these optimistic observations of the postmillennial generation.

Gen-Z and Hope in the Post-Institutional Age

Recently at our church over a dozen graduating high school seniors were honored and their post-graduation plans were highlighted. Every young man is either majoring in engineering or a trade like welding, or electrical. Every young woman except one is going into nursing or the medical field. Why is this significant? This is Generation Z and they aren’t fooling around. They’ve seen their older Millennial siblings and cousins struggle with their worthless degrees and jobs, and they are already taking a different path. Gen-Z supports Trump, and most importantly, there’s no give-up in them or hopelessness, even with all of the problems we face.

If you are an older Millennial or Gen-X like myself, you have seen nothing but loss if you are politically right of center. Vox once mentioned Millennials know something is lost, but not what, but Gen-X watched it happened. This gave us perspective, but it also gave us unbridled cynicism.  Gen-Z doesn’t really live in a world of conservative losers and cucks, as they are now irrelevant. They only see a tough road ahead, but they are determined.

I’ve noticed that older Millennials and Gen-X have a problem. Whenever somebody on our side says they are going to do something, or fight back, or even express hope of winning, we have to repress our cynicism. Why? The conservatives turned out to be the biggest bunch of feckless, stupid, political losers in the last century, and we were dumb enough to believe in them for a while. It’s nearly impossible for us to believe anyone right of center can pull their heads out of their asses long enough to do anything meaningful, so we default to cynicism.

Who can remember American cars from the 70s and 80s? If you do, you will remember they produced some of the worst vehicles in history. We inherited them from our parents in high school and we went off to college with them.  Our experience with them was so bad that GM lost an entire generation of buyers. Quite purposefully, they stopped marketing to us and went for the younger generation who knew nothing of GM.  Microsoft had to do the same thing as the bad PR from the late 90’s and early 2000’s turned off millions of potential buyers. But a14-year-old Xbox owner knows nothing of that and doesn’t care.

In the same way, the failures from the 1960s until the present are history to an 18-year-old.

Gen-Z has a big advantage as they are essentially starting at the bottom.  The institutions are all gone. The corporations are all SJW-converged. Free speech is mostly gone. They don’t know a different world than this, but they do know that this is the wrong state of affairs. They didn’t get to see the massive societal destruction of the last 50 years, which is a good thing. Which is more demoralizing, seeing something you love being destroyed or walking in after the destruction to pick up the pieces?

So, if you are Gen-X, don't mock them. Instead, help them and lead them. If they have a good idea, support them. Don’t be cynical. Don’t tell them about all of the failures you’ve seen or how it will never work. You just might be surprised.

Lead by example in technology. Do the small things around them like using Brave and not Chrome. Use DuckDuckGo and not Google. Don’t worry about being perfect, just do what you can and let them know that complete privacy in today’s world isn’t possible, but that doesn’t mean you can’t fight back.

Help them build their own platforms, and discourage them from building platforms based upon a converged corporation like Facebook or Google. If they get in bed with them, their livelihood could be gone in an instant or they might be tempted to compromise in order to keep the money coming in. 
Always support truth in all things. The little truths all support and belong to the big Truth.

Join an actual brick-and-mortar church and support it. Don’t gossip about it, the members, or disparage it without sound reason. Let Gen-Z know that being a member is Biblical, and that you support the institution, even if you have to clean it out yourself.

Finally, be positive. I realize this is nearly impossible for many of us after so many years of seeing things fall apart, but don’t buy into the secular eschatology that they are going to win. They are not! The future belongs to those who believe in the Good, True, and Beautiful, because those things belong to God.

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136 Comments:

Blogger Jakob Niedzwiecki May 31, 2018 7:00 AM  

For the Catholics out here, especially the young ones: find a Traditional Latin Mass! Diocesan or otherwise. Encourage others to attend. Stick around after Mass and be involved in the parish. Become an altar boy or join the choir and start learning chant. There are tremendous resources online for preserving the history and traditions of the Church for future generations, and young boys especially are hungry for the kind of masculine Catholicism they won't find in most Catholic schools or vernacular Mass communities. There is no better time than a time of great crisis in the Church for great saints to rise and for us to help them. Christ will prevail, and with His grace and our efforts so will the West. "Pray, hope, and don't worry!"

Blogger James Egbert May 31, 2018 7:01 AM  

The future belongs to those who believe in the Good, True, and Beautiful because those things belong to God.

Spoken like a true postmillennialist.

Blogger wreckage May 31, 2018 7:28 AM  

@2 I can't imagine a less relevant, yet more universally applicable blackpill than that. You should just say that in reply to every topic, ever.

Blogger Michael O'Duibhir May 31, 2018 7:32 AM  

@1 That, and 15 decades/day has worked for me.

Blogger Peter Gent May 31, 2018 7:34 AM  

James Egbert wrote:The future belongs to those who believe in the Good, True, and Beautiful because those things belong to God.

Spoken like a true postmillennialist.

Or someone who believes his Bible and knows God and his saints will triumph in the end and evil was defeated on the cross. Stop being so dismissive.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 31, 2018 7:35 AM  

"You should just say that in reply to every topic, ever."

Shhh, don't feed it. You might make it pause hanging itself with its underpants to come back and reply.

Blogger VD May 31, 2018 7:38 AM  

Spoken like a true postmillennialist.

Spoken like a confirmed loser. Congratulations on missing the point of the post so entirely.

Blogger pdwalker May 31, 2018 7:38 AM  

Our experience with them was so bad that GM lost an entire generation of buyers.

One of my neighbors was so fed up with his p.o.s. Ford that he mounted a huge sign on the roof of his car that said, “if you want trouble, buy a ford” and then proceeded to drive everywhere with it.

Good post. I find cynicism a natural thing now as I watched the destruction of Western society and wondered where all the adults were and why they were letting it all happen.

Wait a sec... I’m one of those adults now...

Blogger dienw May 31, 2018 7:49 AM  

Join an actual brick-and-mortar church and support it. Don’t gossip about it, the members, or disparage it without sound reason. Let Gen-Z know that being a member is Biblical, and that you support the institution, even if you have to clean it out yourself.

The American Church is dead: the mainline churches are converged; some even fly the flag of Baal Peor and think letting Moslems join them in "worship" is inclusive; female pastors are widespread; and conservative bastions such as the Southern Baptists are now fully feminist.

It would be far better to begin house churches.

Blogger Al Du Clur May 31, 2018 7:49 AM  

It is crucial that anyone who doesn't want the genocide of the white race hate boomers who more them any group got Trump elected and Brexit passed and instead worship a generation not yet in power. Otherwise how are we to fight against the left?

Blogger Eagle Elk May 31, 2018 7:50 AM  

"Help them build their own platforms, and discourage them from building platforms based upon a converged corporation like Facebook or Google."

And I had to join Google just to post here. :(((
I hate that place and thought it was our goal to starve the beast that is Google...

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 31, 2018 7:53 AM  

"boomers who more them any group got Trump elected"

As if. Even the smarter parasites know when it's time to lay off for a while to avoid their own concurrent death.

Boomers = the flu or the common cold.

Blogger wreckage May 31, 2018 7:53 AM  

@9 or find one of the thousands of orthodox-to-their-traditions churches, Protestant, Reformed, Orthodox and Catholic, that practice and teach Christianity.

And for crying in a BUCKET, stop surrendering everything, every time!

Blogger Desdichado May 31, 2018 7:56 AM  

Peter Gent wrote:Or someone who believes his Bible and knows God and his saints will triumph in the end and evil was defeated on the cross. Stop being so dismissive.
Indeed. There's a quote I heard once a few few years ago. Let me see if I can dig it up...

Oh, yeah: "The future of this world has long been declared; the final outcome between good and evil is already known. There is absolutely no question as to who wins because the victory has already been posted on the scoreboard. The only really strange thing is all of this is that we are still down here on the field trying to decide which team's jersey we want to wear!”

― Jeffrey R. Holland

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 31, 2018 7:56 AM  

"and instead worship a generation not yet in power."

If you aren't putting your hope in future generations instead of those up to their necks in the grave... you should just lay down and die now.

Blogger Nate May 31, 2018 8:04 AM  

Vox posts an excellent piece on why you shouldn't black pill.

losers all come out to black pill.

This is why we can't have nice things.

Blogger James Egbert May 31, 2018 8:10 AM  

I didn't miss the point of anything.I was replying to a specific point you made that I happen to agree with.
I believe inthe triumph of Christ and His people in time and in history.
It's called postmillenialism.
Ever read Rushdoony?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 31, 2018 8:11 AM  

This is why we can't have nice things.

Indeed.

Blogger eyeslevel May 31, 2018 8:15 AM  

The media/academia complex known as leftism, rule by intellectuals/bureaucrats -I call it the modern priest class- took power in America ~1930 (they took office in 1932). They took power from the Republican/Capitalist establishment which had ruled since the end of the Civil War. They took power due to their skill with words, with propaganda. Since then, conservatism or the right has been fake opposition. They gained office from time to time, but they were never in power. They gain office by moving left, by affirming leftism. They put on a good show of pretending to be opposition and get a lot of people to vote for them, but they never do anything that really hurts leftism. That's why we have been so disappointed with the right and why we are stabbed in the back by "conservative" politicians election after election. Even Reagan signed amnesty.

We're just starting to form a real opposition to leftism. We have to beat them at their own game by discrediting them with propaganda.

Blogger Nate May 31, 2018 8:16 AM  

"It's called postmillenialism."

shh.

Blogger Simon May 31, 2018 8:20 AM  

He's spot on with engineering jobs. I have put one of my boys in as an electrician and the other as a refrigeration and air con engineer. No university debt and worthless degrees for them.

Blogger Eagle Elk May 31, 2018 8:21 AM  

Wow......... this article is already linked over at Western Rifle Shooters.

Blogger Unknown May 31, 2018 8:25 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Peter Gent May 31, 2018 8:26 AM  

James Egbert wrote:I didn't miss the point of anything.I was replying to a specific point you made that I happen to agree with.

I believe inthe triumph of Christ and His people in time and in history.

It's called postmillenialism.

Ever read Rushdoony?

I was reading and sometimes disagreeing with Rushdooney before you were probably born. No matter how you try to equivocate now, you phrased it as a putdown pure and simple. The fact you can't see that explains everything that follows.

Blogger James Dixon May 31, 2018 8:26 AM  

> The American Church is dead: the mainline churches are converged...

Some American churches are dead. The Church is Christ's, and nothing on earth can kill it.

There are good churches out there. Find one.

> And I had to join Google just to post here. :(((

Google owns blogspot.com. Vox will be forced to move eventually. In the meantime we might as well use their resources against them.

Blogger Artisanal Toad May 31, 2018 8:28 AM  

The most important lesson Gen Zyclon must learn is to be anti-fragile. Above all else, be anti-fragile.

I regularly give boys (17-18 years old) a standard spiel on women, marriage and divorce that is complete reality. I explain what women are really like (hypergamous) and why game works. I explain some of the huge lies that are baked into the culture and why they need to reject them completely and ignore anyone who preaches such garbage.

These are average guys, of average intelligence. Some of them might have a 110-115 IQ, but they're average. Sometimes the discussion goes into the education industry, the legal and court system, the political system, the media and how it keeps them in never-never land, the medical industry, the church racket and any number of other areas. The truth resonates with them and they can accept the truth that they've been lied to all their lives, as well as what to do about it. When this thing finally breaks, Gen Zyclon will sit in judgment and they won't be very sympathetic.

Millennials can't handle the truth, refuse to hear it and walk away. Gen X people will agree until their sacred cow gets tossed on the BBQ. Then they get mad and shoot the messenger.

The events of the 40's through 2000 are history for Gen Zyclon, but they can examine it objectively as history and reach their own conclusions, unlike their elders who have emotional investment in those events. The willingness to accept reality for what it is and move forward anyway is their greatest strength.

If you want to be an example to Gen Zyclon, become anti-fragile and understand why it's important. Winter is coming.

Blogger Richard Holmes May 31, 2018 8:28 AM  

Wow, millennial leftists have barely gotten out of the gate and Gen Z is going to bring the hammer down? Can they finish college and not believe in marxism? I do hope so. Is this the generation God is going to lift up for himself? For the battle that looms on the horizon? The battle we have heard about all our lives?

By the way, what does "black pilled" mean? (I am in ignorance of this term...)

Blogger Nate May 31, 2018 8:28 AM  

I deal with Zyklon... literally all the time. we have from 30 to 50 of them on Wednesday nights at church and they are very very different from the kids we had just 5 years ago.

5 years ago for example... we were seeing the millennial drive for consensus. I would put out a topic or question to them.. and I would get blank looks from them. Eventually... they would start talking to each other about the topic... and out of that short talk... a statement would form (that likely wasn't all that relevant to the question I asked) and they would present it as an answer for the group. The wouldn't talk individually hardly at all.

That has all changed. This group of kids is very different. they have strong individual opinions and they get pissed off when you say something they don't like. For example I was talking about arranged marriage a few weeks ago... just to mess with them... and they told me to go back to Africa... and basically said I was un-American... and they were still kind of pissed 40 minutes later.


good times...

Blogger dienw May 31, 2018 8:29 AM  

And for crying in a BUCKET, stop surrendering everything, every time!
No one is crying or surrendering. Perceiving reality : I live in a North Carolina city with five universities; even a so-called noon-denominational, conservative church is worthless.

Blogger Unknown May 31, 2018 8:32 AM  

Occasionally, so very occasionally, the ring of hope can be heard above the maddening cuckophony. All the more sweet for its rarity.

Blogger S1AL May 31, 2018 8:34 AM  

"No one is crying or surrendering. Perceiving reality : I live in a North Carolina city with five universities; even a so-called noon-denominational, conservative church is worthless."

Then move or start a church or drive 20 minutes to a nearby town. Just quit yer bitching. There are tens of thousands of churches in this country. The fact that you can't find a decent one says more about you than about the churches.

Blogger VD May 31, 2018 8:34 AM  

And I had to join Google just to post here. :(((

So do all the trolls and spammers.

I hate that place and thought it was our goal to starve the beast that is Google...

Don't be ridiculous. Focus on vulnerable targets.

I didn't miss the point of anything. I was replying to a specific point you made that I happen to agree with.

No one cares. Don't try to change the subject. This isn't a fucking theological post. I swear, theology enthusiasts are almost as bad as the philo/anti-semite clown show.

Blogger dienw May 31, 2018 8:46 AM  

Then move or start a church or drive 20 minutes to a nearby town. Just quit yer bitching. There are tens of thousands of churches in this country. The fact that you can't find a decent one says more about you than about the churches.

Your faith in stones and wood is amazing; it is called idolatry. The Body of Christ is not the same thing as a church building. The first priority of a Christian is to make sure his membership in the body of Christ, not his membership in Churchianity.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 31, 2018 9:01 AM  

Bad dienw. Bad. Bad boy.

You know what he meant.

Blogger Nate May 31, 2018 9:02 AM  

"Your faith in stones and wood is amazing; it is called idolatry. "

shut up and go to church. There is a little Church of Christ in your town somewhere... it has no steeple... and it likely doesn't even have a kitchen in it.

That's what you're looking for. There are tons of them. it has nothing to do with the buildings. It is about collective worship and connecting to Christ through His church.

Blogger 357Delta May 31, 2018 9:03 AM  

dienw, If you are going are going to swallow the black pill at least have enough integrity to defend your decision instead of denying it and trying to dance. You aren't fooling anyone.

Blogger Mister Excitement May 31, 2018 9:08 AM  

"So, if you are Gen-X, don't mock them. Instead, help them and lead them. If they have a good idea, support them. Don’t be cynical. Don’t tell them about all of the failures you’ve seen or how it will never work. You just might be surprised."

Excellent line.

The Boomers and Conservatives love love LOVE to call the younger generation "snowflakes" and make fun of them because they live in their parents basements.

These kids have had a rough time, don't mock and ridicule them.

These younger guys don't have the luxury of walking into a factory and immediately getting hired on the spot for a 40 year high paying career. Boomers and Greatest Gen had that and they not only ridicule the younger Gens about their employment situation, they don't even know that anything is wrong. Boomers and older are completely delusional about the state of America.

For Gen Z and Millennials, and even Gen X by the time they came of age, they've never seen a functioning American economy in their entire lives. They have never seen a world without stifling political correctness and Leftist debauchery like extreme feminism and hate whitey propaganda.

There's a reason why the "Manosphere" and all this stuff about "Game" is so popular. Getting a girl these days is like a special forces operation for a lot of these younger guys.

Over the years I've observed a lot of goofy dumbass Boomer and Greatest Generation men and have concluded that these dudes would never even get a date if they grew up in the 90s or later.

Blogger Nate May 31, 2018 9:08 AM  

Seriously... if you want a biblically sound unconverged church... jump on your favorite search engine and search for church of Christ. rule out any results that say "united church of Christ" as it is literally a fake church for gays.

Now... look at the streetside pics of the churches that are left. The ones without steeples are the conservative ones.


Blogger S1AL May 31, 2018 9:14 AM  

"Your faith in stones and wood is amazing; it is called idolatry. The Body of Christ is not the same thing as a church building."

I'm sure that you would, likewise, condemn the early Christians who met in the synagogue.

Because that's part-and-parcel of your "holier than thou" schtick.

So let's go with some scripture:

"Do not forsake the gathering together of believers".

Blogger insight May 31, 2018 9:40 AM  

"So, if you are Gen-X, don't mock them. Instead, help them and lead them. If they have a good idea, support them. Don’t be cynical. Don’t tell them about all of the failures you’ve seen or how it will never work. You just might be surprised."

No, no, no don't worry about that we're not like boomers. I saw a young fresh faced Z the other day, there is hope.

Blogger Matt Robison May 31, 2018 9:50 AM  

Nate's is a good heuristic for a church. I grew up in that tradition, and am involved in a great one where we live now. They aren't completely untouched by the world and its assumptions (who is, really), but they have kept their defenses in good shape.

Just don't go to the ones that have monomania about instrumental music and other issues like that, as it just becomes a group back-pat about how we're better than the other churches. You'll be able to tell really fast after just a few visits.

Blogger Adam Baum May 31, 2018 9:53 AM  

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Blogger Adam Baum May 31, 2018 9:55 AM  

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Blogger Adam Baum May 31, 2018 9:59 AM  

Great advice, Mr. Niedzwiecki! I would add that if you can't find a Traditional Latin Mass, search for a Byzantine Catholic Church.

Blogger A rebel without a General May 31, 2018 10:03 AM  

The only worry I have is are they going to be the same after college. I also worry that so many are becoming engineers that they flood the market, but what do I know I am just a recent accounting grad who can't a job.

Blogger Julian Kowalczyk May 31, 2018 10:08 AM  

"Every young man is either majoring in engineering or a trade like welding, or electrical. Every young woman except one is going into nursing or the medical field"

That's a little different from a few years ago. Back then everyone wanted to be a Astronaut or a Doctor or a Lawyer. And yes the Chinese were going to produce stuff in their factories.

Blogger CM May 31, 2018 10:17 AM  

Join an actual brick-and-mortar church and support it. Don’t gossip about it, the members, or disparage it without sound reason. Let Gen-Z know that being a member is Biblical, and that you support the institution, even if you have to clean it out yourself.

Thank you for this. Tuesday morning, I finally realized running from poor teaching isn't helping. If I'm supposed to test what is being taught, then I need to be exposed to what is taught.

should godly women continue to be silent, though? When do daughters prophecy?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 31, 2018 10:27 AM  

"should godly women continue to be silent, though?"

In assembly, yes. Otherwise, YMMV.

"When do daughters prophecy?"

Possibly never.

Blogger widlast washere May 31, 2018 10:43 AM  

I am Roman Catholic, and can say with all honesty that St. John Chrysostom's liturgy is truly beautiful. A bit long, but it covers EVERYTHING. Any Byzantine Catholic, or Orthodox church will use this liturgy, daily for the Catholics. Being part of a congregation is a must, among Catholics there are also the lay orders, such as 3rd order Franciscans and Benedictine Oblates. The traditions and rules of the various orders are "written in stone" and are not subject to the whims of the times (or idiots in power).

Blogger Crush Limbraw May 31, 2018 10:45 AM  

WTF is everyone uptight about postmillennialism? It's a general description for the working out of God's plan in time and history, not a theological purity peep!

Blogger JeanMontlepuy May 31, 2018 10:50 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger JeanMontlepuy May 31, 2018 10:53 AM  

I wish could share the enthusiasm, and I don't doubt the young men mentioned above have good heads on their shoulders, but outside of some cheery anecdotes and hopeful extrapolation, I don't see any reason to believe that "generation zyklon" will manifest in any meaningful sense. There may many capable outliers who will save themselves from the coming desolation, but I don't expect a generation that is statistically gayer, less conscious of their heritage, and more irreligious will be quite up to the task of saving America, let alone the rest of the European world. There's always a tendency to look to the youth to salvage and restore the world, but the only evidence I've seen cited is a few British surveys that over sampled Muslim youth. I also find it hard to believe that the future lies in simply making more tradesmen. Everywhere I've lived tradesmen are a pack of mongrelized rubes with no higher allegiance than to their regional sports teams and who live for nothing more than hot wings, beer, and their disfigured sow of a wife. Though I presume this may not be the case in places with a stronger Christian identity.

The only viable solution is for the individual soul to take advice from Acts 2:40 and save themselves from this wicked generation.

Blogger Nate May 31, 2018 10:55 AM  

"should godly women continue to be silent, though? When do daughters prophecy?"

No. Godly women hate heresy as well.

Blogger Hammerli280 May 31, 2018 11:05 AM  

I get the impression that Gen Z has a lot in common with the Baby Busters (born in the late '50s and early to mid '60s). They got stuck with a Really Bad Situation after their elders had thoroughly screwed things up.

I'd LOVE to see demographics on Trump's supporters. The Baby Busters were Reagan's strongest supporters in 1980, it would not surprise me if Gen Z were Trump's cornerstone. Like Reagan, Trump offered hope to a generation who had not seen hope in half a lifetime.

Blogger JeanMontlepuy May 31, 2018 11:17 AM  

OT: Compelling reasons that the Irish Abortion vote may have been rigged.

https://fitzinfo.wordpress.com/2018/05/30/another-big-rig-in-ireland/

Blogger Man of The West May 31, 2018 11:22 AM  

We Catholics definitely need a return to the masculine zeal the church and faith once fostered to spread Christianity globally. It’s going to have to start with a Reconquista of our own church/Vatican first though. Sedavacantism looks more and more appropriate with each papal scandal.

Blogger AaMcavoy May 31, 2018 11:36 AM  

JeanMontlepuy wrote:I wish could share the enthusiasm, and I don't doubt the young men mentioned above have good heads on their shoulders, but outside of some cheery anecdotes and hopeful extrapolation, I don't see any reason to believe that "generation zyklon" will manifest in any meaningful sense.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again:
My San Fran area church's scout troop is full of the most rightwing, red-pilled people I've seen in person, anywhere. And their leader is a three-letter agency guy.
The polarization drives people to the gay Left or the hard Right. My millenial friends can't let go of their civ nat fantasy of everyone being American. White Gen Z has been taught by media, school, and pop culture that they are a scourge and should be sacrificed for a brown future. Hard to be neutral coming out of that.

Blogger Daniel Paul Grech Pereira May 31, 2018 11:46 AM  

This reader has his head screwed on right.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella May 31, 2018 11:53 AM  

I'm GenX. The most rebellious things I've ever done in my life are get married, stay married, and have many children.

I drive GenZ to their school functions. And their friends. They are so right wing they unnerve my very right-wing, military spouse.

I'm not blackpilled. TPTB killed off 1/3 of GenX to keep us from owning the culture- they knew we would be conservative. Then they pushed divorce on our parents- 1/2 of us lived through a divorce. That's one third remaining standing. Oh, drugs, drugs that flat destroy precise sections of the brain ,not just peace us out a little. Targeted, designer drugs. That left a remnant of us standing.

You think I give any quarter to anyone who does that to me, my siblings, my ghosts?

I am so flipping happy that my kids are zyklon. I am so grateful that the alt-right memers reach my kids every day, let them be a part of it, teach them how to fight.

I don't know what the conflict in the future looks like, mostly b/c I don't game or fight. So I won't stand and spout. But if any generation were prepared, this is the one.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 31, 2018 11:56 AM  

Solid advice

Blogger Starboard May 31, 2018 12:09 PM  

47 CM should godly women continue to be silent, though? When do daughters prophecy?

I thought this meant that women shouldn't take over the service and that we shouldn't halt the teaching to ask a thousand questions. In personal experience, I find that the more women do in a church, the less the men do. Stay out of the way of the men. Encourage their leadership and work. Work the smaller behind the scenes jobs so that they (the husbands and sons) have time and energy for serving out front.

Paul said that the man is the spiritual head of the household. This is because Mom is wrangling kids. She shouldn't be expected to get everyone and everything ready and then provide all of the motivation to get out the door. It is exhausting.

Blogger Jack Amok May 31, 2018 12:12 PM  

I deal with Zyklon... literally all the time. we have from 30 to 50 of them on Wednesday nights at church and they are very very different from the kids we had just 5 years ago.

Nate, do you see a difference in the parents from 5 years ago? I deal with a lot of Zyklon kids too, and I see the same thing. But I also notice almost all the parents are traditional two-parents, married for years with multiple kids. Even the (literal) rock star who married a stripper twenty years ago is still married to her and acting like a father to their kids.

Blogger David The Good May 31, 2018 12:16 PM  

Just off the top of my head, here is a list of mostly unconverged denominations:

Various Mennonite Branches
The Orthodox Presbyterian Church
Reformed Baptist Church (Look for London Baptist confession of 1689)
Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod
Independent Baptist Church
Church of Christ (not UCC - see Nate's comments above)
Brethren Assemblies
The Eastern Orthodox Church
(Most) Missouri Lutheran Synod Churches
The Greek Orthodox Church
Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches
(Most) Associate Reformed Presbyterian Churches

Get in the fray. Fight for the faith.


Blogger Doktor Jeep May 31, 2018 12:33 PM  

A generation of Anti-boomers...
They have my sword

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants May 31, 2018 12:34 PM  

Gen X is the generation known as Baby Busters, due to the introduction of the pill, and feminism's gaslighting of women that they could "have it all."
Gen X are those born between 1965-1980,(with some arguing as late as 1983), Baby Boomers 1946-1964.
Most agree that GenZ are those born roughly between 2000-2015.
White Males aged 18-35 have indeed been some of Trump's staunchest supporters in poll after poll.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 31, 2018 12:37 PM  

JeanMontlepuy wrote:I also find it hard to believe that the future lies in simply making more tradesmen. Everywhere I've lived tradesmen are a pack of mongrelized rubes with no higher allegiance than to their regional sports teams and who live for nothing more than hot wings, beer, and their disfigured sow of a wife.
Nice to see that the snobs who'd rather lose their country than dirty their self-image by associating tradesmen of all people have checked in with their irrelevant opinions.

Blogger Clint May 31, 2018 12:37 PM  

To be clear: Eastern Orthodox and Greek Orthodox are the same. But overall, yeah. You have a good list.

Blogger JeanMontlepuy May 31, 2018 12:53 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Nice to see that the snobs who'd rather lose their country than dirty their self-image by associating tradesmen of all people have checked in with their irrelevant opinions.

You misunderstand. I don't begrudge honest labour. I simply think it's misguided to place too much hope in the working class, who couldn't be bothered to preserve enough virtue or piety to keep America from sliding so low in the first place.

Blogger David The Good May 31, 2018 12:56 PM  

Clint wrote:To be clear: Eastern Orthodox and Greek Orthodox are the same.

For a DOUBLE DOSE of that pimpin'!

Blogger David The Good May 31, 2018 12:57 PM  

And thanks, Clint. I've had friends tell me they're EO, others tell me about the GO, and I've never lived near one or the other to know they were the same thing.

Blogger JeanMontlepuy May 31, 2018 12:58 PM  

AaMcavoy wrote:My San Fran area church's scout troop is full of the most rightwing, red-pilled people I've seen in person, anywhere.

And they're probably a good group of kids, but that's all they are, a group.

AaMcavoy wrote:And their leader is a three-letter agency guy.

That doesn't mean much. For all we know he's just preparing them to die in another one of Israel's wars.

AaMcavoy wrote:The polarization drives people to the gay Left or the hard Right.

And unfortunately, the gays and leftists seem to be winning.

Blogger insight May 31, 2018 1:01 PM  

"TPTB killed off 1/3 of GenX to keep us from owning the culture- they knew we would be conservative. Then they pushed divorce on our parents- 1/2 of us lived through a divorce. That's one third remaining standing. Oh, drugs, drugs that flat destroy precise sections of the brain ,not just peace us out a little. Targeted, designer drugs. That left a remnant of us standing."

Good points. Gen X is naturally anti-globalist because of the things you mentioned and by extension anti-boomer who were and are their useful idiots.

Blogger Lovekraft May 31, 2018 1:08 PM  

Most boomers reeled at the thought of their children working in factories or service jobs, so they pumped up fake diplomas and unnecessary fluff government jobs.

Oh, and they also approved of mass immigration. Funny thing is, today these immigrants are getting the good jobs and the grandkids of these boomers are working at Starbucks or Wal-Mart. Stupid and short-sighted.

Also, a good movie that portrays the Gen X mentality would be "A Scanner Darkly" with Reeves, Downey Jr, Harrelson, Ryder. Written by Philip K Dick.

Blogger insight May 31, 2018 1:19 PM  

The typical boomer "neighbor" during a crises...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/man-pulls-gun-on-neighbor-as-tensions-erupt-in-lava-ravaged-area/ar-AAy3Oxm?ocid=spartanntp

Blogger VD May 31, 2018 1:21 PM  

It is crucial that anyone who doesn't want the genocide of the white race hate boomers who more them any group got Trump elected and Brexit passed and instead worship a generation not yet in power. Otherwise how are we to fight against the left?

"What about MEEEEEEE?" cries the Boomer. Again.

Blogger AaMcavoy May 31, 2018 1:22 PM  

JeanMontlepuy wrote:

Cuck! cucked the cuck cuckingly.

Blogger kurt9 May 31, 2018 1:24 PM  

I'll believe it when I see it with regards to "Gen Z". I think they are still too young to have well-defined political opinions. Additionally, many of them are vaccine injured, probably worse then their Millennial predecessors. I believe a lot of the weird behavior of the college Millennials (hyper-sensitivity, need for "safe spaces", etc.) is due to vaccine injury, in particular Thimerosal poisoning. Contrary to popular belief, the Thimerosal was not removed in many childhood vaccines and remains in ALL adult vaccines.

Those of you who believe the concern about vaccines is unfounded should ask yourself this question. Why are vaccines the only "product" manufactured in the U.S. where the manufacturer enjoys complete immunity from product liability? Would you feel comfortable on your next flight if Boeing was completely immune to product liability if anyone of their planes crashed and the cause was determined to be a manufacturing flaw?

Blogger Michael O'Duibhir May 31, 2018 1:27 PM  

@33 "The Body of Christ is not the same thing as a church building."

Right. It's a term coined by the Holy Catholic Church 2000 years ago. It refers to the unleavened bread which has been, through the sacrament of the Eucharist, transformed into the actual Body of Christ. That continual sacrifice is happening right now all over the planet.

Blogger JeanMontlepuy May 31, 2018 1:30 PM  

I'm a cuck because I'm realistic about the demographics, or because I don't want another zionist war?

Blogger Michael O'Duibhir May 31, 2018 1:30 PM  

@56 "It’s going to have to start with a Reconquista of our own church/Vatican first though."

But I don't see how that can happen before some catastrophic event which wakes people out of their slumber.

Blogger Crush Limbraw May 31, 2018 1:38 PM  

Since some folks here seem to get their panties in a wad about either 'postmillennialism' or someone recommending starting house churches as some kind of topical heresy - has anyone considered that premillennial black-pillism is literally the predominant theology in most American churches?
What do you expect the state of mind to be of the church members who are told that the world is rapidly descending into hell and there is nothing we can do about it - just wait for Jesus?
I know frpm personal experience - 20 years.
Yes, I know that theology has been declared off topic here today - but extracting theology from real life decisions is the same as trying to extract cause from effect. They happen to be related!

Blogger peppermint May 31, 2018 1:40 PM  

Star Wars eps 4,5,6 are just Boomer stories, saccharine half-truths that Boomers tell themselves to justify their retarded actions. Darth Vader did nothing wrong except kill himself. Some day we'll find out the truth about what happened in Imperial politics during eps 5 and 6. The criminals and traitors babbling about freedom goven hagiographic treatment in 4,5,6 certainly weren't able to fight the Empire alone. Bizarrely, Luke is presented as a total normie, a zealous revolutionary, and at the same time a degenerate willing to face the Imperial military to save a sort of pretty princess he saw in a hologram once.

Blogger kmbr May 31, 2018 1:43 PM  

**Which is more demoralizing, seeing something you love being destroyed or walking in after the destruction to pick up the pieces?**

Good point.

Hopefully, too, there are enough parents, like me, who paint the picture of the America I grew up in and all that they are missing.

Every time we have to lock something, lose something, can't go somewhere, feel the bad mojo all around-I am there to remind them, "Doesn't need to be this way"

Blogger Jack Amok May 31, 2018 1:44 PM  

Nice to see that the snobs who'd rather lose their country than dirty their self-image by associating tradesmen of all people have checked in with their irrelevant opinions.

It's okay Snidely, one of these days the guy with the French-sounding name will get a furnace installed by an incompetent tradesman and maybe, must maybe, then he'll appreciate the value skilled tradesmen have in society enough to get over his snobbery.

Yes JeanMontelpuy, you're a snob. You don't have the least comprehension of what tradesmen do or what a real middle class is. All you know is what you see looking down your nose at a group shorn of it's brightest members who were shoveled into useless college programs where they could do nothing good for society.

Two-thirds of the people who got college degrees over the last forty years should have been master tradesmen instead. If they'd done that, your ignorant criticisms of the working class would be laughably incorrect. But because snobs like you weren't laughed at forty years ago, our society squandered the potential of so many people.

Blogger James Dixon May 31, 2018 1:46 PM  

> I live in a North Carolina city with five universities; even a so-called noon-denominational, conservative church is worthless.

Which almost certainly means the Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill area. Just limiting the search to Anglican churches, there are three in that area which claim to the use the 1928 Prayer book, meaning they're about as conservative faith wise as you can get:

http://www.stgeorgesanglican.org/
https://allsaintsraleigh.com/index.php
http://www.saintbenedicts.net/index.html

Blogger AaMcavoy May 31, 2018 1:51 PM  

JeanMontlepuy wrote:I'm a cuck because I'm realistic about the demographics, or because I don't want another zionist war?

Because you look for reasons to despair and discount any hope.

Blogger JeanMontlepuy May 31, 2018 1:53 PM  

Jack Amok wrote:then he'll appreciate the value skilled tradesmen have in society enough to get over his snobbery.

When did I say I didn't. Until recently, most of my jobs have been manual labour, that's why I don't sentimentalise it to the extent that you do. All I said that it's a mistake to pin hopes of a national revival on the working class alone when they, like the rest of America, have been easily made complacent by the media and the education system for the last 60 years. They have no inherit virtue, no one does. If they did, America wouldn't be in such dire straits in the first place.

Blogger Jack Amok May 31, 2018 2:00 PM  

All I said that it's a mistake to pin hopes of a national revival on the working class alone when they, like the rest of America, have been easily made complacent by the media and the education system for the last 60 years. They have no inherit virtue, no one does. If they did, America wouldn't be in such dire straits in the first place.

Jordan Freaking Peterson on a pogo stick, do you not understand the difference between celebrating youths opting for useful skill development over useless fubar-studies degrees, and "pinning hopes on the working class?"

We're not sentimentalizing the virtue of diesel mechanic, we're celebrating the idea a large number of kids are willing to learn the skills and get their hands dirty, unlike the previous generation that would literally rather compete with hundreds of others for one $40k/year desk job at a car dealership than take the $100k/year mechanics job back in the shop that the dealership is willing to pay to train them for. That's what the Millennial generation is like. We're celebrating evidence Zyklon is different.

Blogger VD May 31, 2018 2:00 PM  

Just leave, JeanMontlepuy. I don't permit losers and demoralizers to comment here. Go away now.

Blogger papabear May 31, 2018 2:04 PM  

#78 ""The Body of Christ is not the same thing as a church building."

Right. It's a term coined by the Holy Catholic Church 2000 years ago. It refers to the unleavened bread which has been, through the sacrament of the Eucharist, transformed into the actual Body of Christ. That continual sacrifice is happening right now all over the planet."

For those interested in the discussion, see Corpus Mysticum by Henri de Lubac.

Blogger JeanMontlepuy May 31, 2018 2:18 PM  

Jack Amok wrote:do you not understand the difference between celebrating youths opting for useful skill development over useless fubar-studies degrees, and "pinning hopes on the working class?"

Forgive me. I was unaware that apparently nobody went to trade school between 1998 and 2018, and that no millennial ever wanted to be a mechanic. To act like a handful of kids opting to be plumbers or electricians is indicative of a generational awakening seems to be a might optimistic. They're still outnumbered by the hair-dyeing genderqueer freak shows earning degrees in women's studies.

Blogger S1AL May 31, 2018 2:26 PM  

"mite" optimistic

He's right, though. Speaking as a millennial, there's an absolute sense of superiority associated with a college education. Now, there's nothing new to the disparity between job income and job status, but the degree of it reached its peak with (white) millennials. Don't have a degree? You can be making millions and you're still basically white trash.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 31, 2018 2:31 PM  

Zeroh Tollrants wrote:Gen X are those born between 1965-1980,(with some arguing as late as 1983), Baby Boomers 1946-1964.

Those dates don't really work. I think the fundamental difference between Boomers and GenX is that the Boomers grew up facing the draft and Vietnam, and GenX didn't. The secondary difference is that the Boomers sucked up all the jobs and bought up all the houses, and left nothing but dregs for GenX.

Boomers ended around 1960, by my reckoning, and of course going by attitude there were entitled Boomers born later and GenXers born earlier.

Blogger CM May 31, 2018 2:31 PM  

Paul said that the man is the spiritual head of the household. This is because Mom is wrangling kids. She shouldn't be expected to get everyone and everything ready and then provide all of the motivation to get out the door. It is exhausting.

Thank you for the whole of the comment, but especially this.

Mouth stays zipped. Knees will just need to get dirty from prayer. Lots of it.

Blogger Nate May 31, 2018 2:46 PM  

"Nate, do you see a difference in the parents from 5 years ago? "

yes.

Millennials were raised by Boomers. Zyklon has been raised by Gen X and it shows.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 31, 2018 3:15 PM  

JeanMontlepuy wrote:I don't begrudge honest labour. I simply think it's misguided to place too much hope in the working class, who couldn't be bothered to preserve enough virtue or piety to keep America from sliding so low in the first place.
I don't begrudge intellectuals. It's simply that I think it misguided to place any hope in the professional classes, who intentionally and with malice aforethought set out to destroy this country, to their own economic benefit, and even now can't even be bothered to disguise their contempt and hatred for the American Working Class.

Blogger Artisanal Toad May 31, 2018 3:24 PM  

One significant advantage Gen Zyklon has over previous generations is the homeschooling movement really took off in the 1990's and many of them were never subjected to the brainwashing that occurs in public and private schools.

They didn't get "socialized" and many of the ones I've spoken to recognize what the schools did to the rest of their age cohort. The homeschooling movement planted the seeds that are now about to bear fruit, because for the first time since the 1940s we have a significant portion of a generation that didn't get brainwashed and they know it.

Another significant advantage Gen Zyklon has is knowledge of the red pill became widely available in time for their sexual awakening. The Red Pill and Game are now permanently part of the landscape and I'd say the majority of them understand it even if they don't really practice it. To really drive that home they've witnessed first-hand what feminism has done and many of them are coming from broken homes. If it wasn't their immediate family, it was uncles or grandparents.

Feminism is cancer and they know it.

I have a great deal of hope for Gen Zyklon

Blogger Nikephoros II Phokas May 31, 2018 3:30 PM  

Nate, is this the same United Church of Christ you're talking about?

http://www.ucc.org/

https://twitter.com/unitedchurch

I'm sure there are some good churches within the fold, but the main UCC website and twitter could not be more pozzed.

There are literally articles on fighting "white supremacy", and even an entire curriculum with webinar about "white privilege".

http://privilege.uccpages.org/

Then there's the tweets on "Harvey Milk Day", gay pastors, female clergy, celebrating Ramadan, etc.

Of course, maybe you're talking about an entirely different church network, which is why I ask.

Blogger S1AL May 31, 2018 3:37 PM  

@Nikephoros -

Quoting Nate:

'Seriously... if you want a biblically sound unconverged church... jump on your favorite search engine and search for church of Christ. rule out any results that say "united church of Christ" as it is literally a fake church for gays.'

Huh. Weird.

You should try reading.

Blogger John May 31, 2018 3:43 PM  

@63 (Most) Missouri Lutheran Synod Churches

Doctrinal conservatives totally control the LCMS seminaries and mostly control the synod corporate structure, but of course there are still many liberal congregations floating around from the old days. It'll take another generation for them to die out.

Blogger Nikephoros II Phokas May 31, 2018 3:46 PM  

@99:

You should try being less petty and snarky.

My apologies to Nate, though. I read the comment correctly the first time but got them switched up when I looked at it again. Thanks for the recommendation, the Church of Christ near me seems like it might be solid.

The stuff I read about UCC definitely confirms your point.

Blogger David The Good May 31, 2018 3:51 PM  

John wrote:@63 (Most) Missouri Lutheran Synod Churches

Doctrinal conservatives totally control the LCMS seminaries and mostly control the synod corporate structure, but of course there are still many liberal congregations floating around from the old days. It'll take another generation for them to die out.


I've heard they fought it out and pulled the church back. We currently attend a WELS church and the pastor told me you could go to one LCMS and find it fantastic, then attend in a liberal town and say "is this even the same denomination?" Your explanation makes sense.

Blogger Starboard May 31, 2018 4:16 PM  

94. CM "Thank you for the whole of the comment, but especially this.

Mouth stays zipped. Knees will just need to get dirty from prayer. Lots of it."

Happy to help. It was tremendously freeing when I stopped trying to be in charge. Feminism is cancer for the women as well as the men.

Blogger Mark Stoval May 31, 2018 4:18 PM  

" Don't have a degree? You can be making millions and you're still basically white trash."

Madness. Utter madness. They give degrees to any moron who can pay the huge costs. They hired truckloads of administrators, not professors. They teach damn little and grade inflation made it dumb to even ask what a guy's GPA was. And the costs are stupid outrageous. Out-F'ing-Rageous.

There is rampant credentialism in all aspects of our life today. You have to have a special certificate to plug in a heart monitor at the local hospital. FFS.

So some guys feel great about their degrees. I have met many wise men who never went to college as I did and I call them friend. (often they are much better off than me)

And women! They are ruining their lives and our civilization by going to college and then siting in a f'ing cubicle all during their good years when they should be married, having babies, and raising them.

This society is messed up.

/rant

Blogger Starboard May 31, 2018 4:26 PM  

88 Jack Amok "Jordan Freaking Peterson on a pogo stick.." coffee everywhere. Thanks Jack, I'm stealing that one.

103. David the Good. I've heard good things about WELS. Agreed that LCMS is generally good. Stay away from ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America) universal salvation, abortion, homosexualty.

Blogger Hammerli280 May 31, 2018 4:57 PM  

@93: The key to generational politics is understanding that a political generation is NOT twenty years. It's more like ten. Maybe twelve.

Which is why people like me, born in 1963, don't fit...the Brat Boomers were born a decade earlier, Gen X a decade later. We're Baby Busters. Stuck with the bill and the mess the Brat Boomers left behind.

And if you want to understand a political generation, look at the events that happened in their teenage years and early adulthood. We Busters were savaged by the Great Inflation of the 1970s. We were the people Jimmy Carter looked at and told, "You can't hope to live as well as your parents."

Needless to say, we voted for Reagan.

Blogger Raging Papist May 31, 2018 5:17 PM  

Its true that we are called to live in joyful hope. I don't have much interaction with Gen Z as I am surrounded by fellow millennials, but we have to do what we can to inspire others. We need hope, resilience, and courage. As the author stated, millennials' cynicism has driven them to disengage with society rather than work to make it better.

Blogger Bird on a Wing May 31, 2018 5:22 PM  

If you are an older Millennial or Gen-X like myself, you have seen nothing but loss if you are politically right of center. Vox once mentioned Millennials know something is lost, but not what, but Gen-X watched it happen.

The future belongs to those who believe in the Good, True, and Beautiful, because those things belong to God.


The way it works is that God creates; our enemy then deforms, perverts and destroys the good thing that God created. Then, in the very midst of the orgy of destruction – God creates a new thing. His creation is always good and the enemy always hates it.

There is no end to the spectacular new things our God can create. He is infinite and so is His creativity. Right now, He is in the midst of bringing forth a new creation, and it is indeed true, good and beautiful.

How much fun is this – to have front row seats to the Master of all art performances? Not only are we the audience, we are the medium and the means through which He creates. All we have to do is cooperate and go where He leads.

I’m Gen-X, and I don’t know about you guys, but I’m pretty excited to step into the new beautiful thing that’s coming along – I’ve always been a risk taker.

Blogger weka May 31, 2018 5:39 PM  

Stepson doing quantity surveying and both sons doin pharmacy. Medicine is now too expensive. Know plenty of unemployed law graduates.
Most younf blokes are competing for apprenticeships. The losers go to university

Blogger Gospace May 31, 2018 5:54 PM  

Greek Orthodox is Eastern Orthodox, but Eastern Orthodox isn't always Greek Orthodox. They're not synonymous. Eastern Orthodox is a general descriptor for non-Protestant churches that have been around as long as the Roman Catholic Church, that can trace their founding and the line of succession of their Popes to the 12 Apostles, but not to the Church of Rome. They don’t recognize the authority of the Bishop of Rome, and don’t have the infallibility doctrine of the Church of Rome. Protestant Churches, Lutheran, Episcopal, etc., can for the most part all trace their Bishops back to the Roman Church. In most cases from what I understand all the orthodox churches are in communion with each other and the Church or Rome. That is, going to a mass in any one of them or the Roman Catholic Church satisfies your mass obligation for the week.

In my area a quick google search reveals we have an Antiochian, Greek, Russian, Macedonian, Coptic, and a Ukrainian Orthodox Church. Generally members of these churches marry within the church, keeping the body of the Church going. They are all willing to accept converts. That’s something My Big Fat Greek Wedding got correct. I had a few dates with a young lady who was Greek Orthodox. I was told that it wouldn’t get serious unless I converted. She didn’t want to be disowned.



There’s a lot more variety in Christianity then many are aware of. There are a lot of storefront and pop-up Christian churches with very charismatic leaders who cannot trace their ordination back in any line of succession to Rome or any Orthodox church. It’s possible to debate whether those churches are Christian at all. But that’s a whole other theological discussion.

Blogger S1AL May 31, 2018 6:12 PM  

@Gospace - There are also Oriental Orthodox and non-Chalcedonian Orthodox churches. Coptic and Tawahedo are the largest.

Blogger SirHamster May 31, 2018 6:14 PM  

Nate wrote:

losers all come out to black pill.

This is why we can't have nice things.



That's a Gen-X way to look at it.

The Gen-Z way is to laugh at this opportunity to pants all these losers.

The losers are always going to be with us. Regular spanking and humiliation is their lot to inspire the rest of us.

Blogger SirHamster May 31, 2018 6:32 PM  

JeanMontlepuy wrote:Forgive me. I was unaware that apparently nobody went to trade school between 1998 and 2018, and that no millennial ever wanted to be a mechanic.

Request for forgiveness declined.

Given that you're this self-admittedly dumb, shut up. No one cares.


They're still outnumbered by the hair-dyeing genderqueer freak shows earning degrees in women's studies.



Dead ends are irrelevant. When sowing seeds, you don't care about the seeds that don't make it. The seeds that grow and fruit are the only ones that matter.

Blogger John May 31, 2018 8:06 PM  

@102 I've heard they fought it out and pulled the church back.

Yes. We kicked the liberals out of St. Louis seminary in the 70s, and we finally won the Synod presidency in 2010.

We currently attend a WELS church and the pastor told me you could go to one LCMS and find it fantastic, then attend in a liberal town and say "is this even the same denomination?"

There are three factions in the LCMS: confessional, liberal, and conservative non-denominational (generic "contemporary worship"). The fight for Synod control has always been between confessionals and liberals. Non-denominationals have more or less acted as a swing vote that tended to favor the liberals, mainly because liberal boomers support contemporary worship.

So any given congregation will fall broadly into one of those types. In any case, the LCMS has strong confessional leadership and is on a very positive long-term trajectory.

Blogger David The Good May 31, 2018 8:31 PM  

John wrote:@102 I've heard they fought it out and pulled the church back.

Yes. We kicked the liberals out of St. Louis seminary in the 70s, and we finally won the Synod presidency in 2010.

We currently attend a WELS church and the pastor told me you could go to one LCMS and find it fantastic, then attend in a liberal town and say "is this even the same denomination?"

There are three factions in the LCMS: confessional, liberal, and conservative non-denominational (generic "contemporary worship"). The fight for Synod control has always been between confessionals and liberals. Non-denominationals have more or less acted as a swing vote that tended to favor the liberals, mainly because liberal boomers support contemporary worship.

So any given congregation will fall broadly into one of those types. In any case, the LCMS has strong confessional leadership and is on a very positive long-term trajectory.


Very interesting. The WELS we attend has a decent amount of liturgy, plus somewhat contemporary worship. Drums, keyboard, hymns and modern worship songs. I like things more old-school, but we live in a place with almost no options. Our other options are pentacostal, 7th Day Adventist, liberal Presbyterian, abysmally liberal Anglican, watery Catholic or various cults. Finding a WELS congregation was a huge blessing, though I'm a 5-point Calvinist at heart.

Blogger James Dixon May 31, 2018 9:33 PM  

> The key to generational politics is understanding that a political generation is NOT twenty years. It's more like ten. Maybe twelve.

Exactly. Which means the main strain of the boomers ended in 1958 at the latest. Which, strangely enough, was when I was born. Like you we almost all voted for Reagan.

Blogger Paul M May 31, 2018 9:41 PM  

@110 "Eastern Orthodox is a general descriptor for non-Protestant churches that have been around as long as the Roman Catholic Church, that can trace their founding and the line of succession of their Popes to the 12 Apostles, but not to the Church of Rome. They don’t recognize the authority of the Bishop of Rome, and don’t have the infallibility doctrine of the Church of Rome."

For more info, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East%E2%80%93West_Schism

Blogger John May 31, 2018 9:57 PM  

@115 To further clarify: confessionals are sort of analogous to pre-Vatican II Roman Catholics (although we've already got the upper-hand). The two problems we are reacting to are liberal & Generic American Protestant theology, and Generic American Protestant worship style.

I realized a while ago that confessionalism in the LCMS is playing out one of Vox's points about immigrants. Note that one of our political districts is the "English" district, because those congregations spoke English. After WWI and WWII, there was (understandably) a move in the LCMS to become more American, and that had a significant—if gradual—effect on worship styles. Well, now we've decided that's all baloney and we're going back to the old ways. (Though we're not going to go back to having services in German.)

though I'm a 5-point Calvinist at heart.

After the West has been restored, I am sure there will be many theological arguments between the various parties of Christendom.

Blogger William Hughes May 31, 2018 10:47 PM  

A great and hopeful post. Very nice.

Blogger justaguy May 31, 2018 11:13 PM  

Guys-- a dumb boomer here commenting on the " small number I saw this" and trying to make conclusions about any generation. For the US, there is is a cohort based on an age range and it is large. One may break it up into groups-- you choose, but you need statistics to really have any idea of what that cohort is doing. One church with someone tooting their horn might mean that person saw a great group but YMMV.

To many times VD and others just use their own experiences, limited as we all are- to evaluate a cohort of tens of millions. Sheer hubris maybe? You need statistics, groups, means etc along reasonable measures related to your conclusions. Much like the lack of history guy explaining how Boomer had it easy- without reference to the 1970s, double digit interest rates, double digit inflation, double digit unemployemnt, and huge layoffs everyplace-- really fun times.

There is a great lack of data-- it takes time to find it. A few things like marriage and divorce rates, sat scores, number graduating form college within 6 years of HS etc.

But go ahead and tell stories-- mine is about the fish I caught-- it was this big--= just like your stories and your conclusion about generations. Back them up with something other than your small and biased observations.

Blogger Jack Amok June 01, 2018 12:04 AM  

Speaking as a millennial,

But see, S1AL, that's just it. You're a meliennial, you come from a generation raised by the ultimate status whores, and so your generation literally prefers going in debt to buy a fluff credential and working a subsistence job in a cubicle to doing anything that takes effort and might scrape your knuckles.

Zyklon isn't like that. They see what most college degrees really are and laugh.

To many times VD and others just use their own experiences, limited as we all are-

Except our experiences aren't as limited at you claim, or did you miss the part where guys like Nate and I discuss working with large numbers of youths on a regular basis. Yeah, both of us have carefully chosen the communities we live in, so maybe our experience is different than you'd find in some urban hell-hole (but then AaMcvoy gives a somewhat corroborating report from San Francisco of all places), but we see the change happening.

It isn't everyone, but as folks have pointed out, dead ends are dead ends. The days when purple-haired degenerates can vote themselves "normal" are just about over. Demographics aren't going to matter as much as energy, smarts, and determination.

Blogger Jack Amok June 01, 2018 12:20 AM  

"Jordan Freaking Peterson on a pogo stick.." coffee everywhere. Thanks Jack, I'm stealing that one.

Please do. I assume it's not blasphemy to take the name of the Judeo-Crazy-Christ in vain.

Or is that Jordeo-Crazy-Christ?

Blogger The Stygian June 01, 2018 12:41 AM  

So recently I talked to my 16 year old daughter about some of my views. She was telling me how this week on senior day the boys in her class marched in the school carrying a GE banner. I smiled. My best friend (long time reader, don't think he's a dread ilk, but pretty close) and I were talking to her and she ask if I knew about MK ultra. I don't remember smiling that big in a long time. My friend commented, thank God for genetics and a father with a spine.

Blogger VD June 01, 2018 3:04 AM  

To many times VD and others just use their own experiences, limited as we all are- to evaluate a cohort of tens of millions. Sheer hubris maybe? You need statistics, groups, means etc along reasonable measures related to your conclusions.

Bullshit... and bullshit.

Someone clearly doesn't understand the difference between observation, hypothesis, and proof. You're claiming the cart has to be put in front of the horse in order to go anywhere.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 01, 2018 7:37 AM  

@29

" even a so-called noon-denominational, conservative church is worthless."

Sun-worshipping went away with the Pharoahs.

Blogger S1AL June 01, 2018 8:36 AM  

@Jack Amok -

That was my point. The attitude has shifted with right-wing millennials, but like with Boomers thinking they're the bestest ever, the generational attitude has the final say.

Blogger justaguy June 01, 2018 1:08 PM  

#121-= small number and limited experiences related to larger cohort of many millions: so seeing a very selective groups of hundreds applies to the group of over 10 million-- want to P-test that or apply any model/statistics? My fish that I caught was this big so all fish are that size but YMMV...

idiot millennials without a clue about group statistics, norms, selective grouping etc. Let us go into southside Chicago and see things and apply them to all African-Americans in the country....

Blogger justaguy June 01, 2018 1:25 PM  

#124: BS BS

Claiming that some of a group are X based on limited observations fine. But again this is the same argument over hating Boomers-- this experience based on this few people and not delving what applies to which ones applies to all tens of millions.

Argue data like divorce rates per unit changed, birth and marriage rates, bankruptcy rates, homeless rates, rates of working, etc-- get some real data and use that for observations. Then we at least have a big enough sample to make conclusions about tens of millions. Looking at one plant and forming a hypothesis about all plants-- is a carrot a potato? not science says this physics major.

Just saying that if I am in New York and everyone I meet as I walk the wrong way down to the subway is rude-- must be all people in the US are rude! observation and conclusion-- science done!

I like the skits done of "stupid younger generations" even those highlighted by the biased press (what a good source of fact-checked information?)
I see some examples of really unrealistic people-- think student Hogg or the college snowflake protesters. What I don't see is if the majority of students are idiots who only want approved Halloween costumes and other PC stuff. With a system that places unprepared people, often without the requisite IQs in higher education to stay with the bulk of the college population-- I would expect a bunch of malcontents.

I remember seeing data that showed the initial onset of the 1982 Reagan recession was as severe as the 2008 one. Of course we had idiot policies that prolonged the recovery-- just like after 1929-- causing a prolonged depression. But 1982 was immediately after the terrible 1970s. How many boomers stayed with the parents a little longer-- who knows, I don't know that there is data. Now a large % stays at home, but how is it measured and is the measurement the same... This is the type of analysis I would expect from high IQ individuals.


Blogger Brett baker June 01, 2018 1:32 PM  

A few outliers? Sometimes,"That is enough".

Blogger VD June 01, 2018 2:38 PM  

But again this is the same argument over hating Boomers-- this experience based on this few people and not delving what applies to which ones applies to all tens of millions.

No, it is not. Why do you refuse to take the Boomers' own claims about themselves at face value? Indeed, it is the macro-level statistics that damn the Boomers most thoroughly.

Blogger skiballa June 01, 2018 6:42 PM  

@Nate, What’s really entertaining is that my sons do the same here in New England. Having spent some time with young men of that cohort at camp outs with the Royal Rangers has changed my perspective on a great many things. The next couple of decades are going to be really entertaining.

I should add, these boys are largely home-schooled, and have some pretty interesting takes in regards to their public school peers.

Blogger skiballa June 01, 2018 7:03 PM  

I’m one of those unfortunate born in ‘80 Xennials. My folks are older boomers, fortunately my mother is a first gen American, Philly city girl, and pragmatic. My father has turned into the most obnoxious stereotypical liberal boomer since he retired. He frequently picks arguments over some of the most asinine Resistance level nonsense I’ve ever heard.

When that happens, my young adult Gen Zyklons soundly destroy any argument he thinks he’s made. He’s long since learned not to try it with me, and I figure at some point he’ll learn with them too.

He has of course complained to my mother and I that they’re being allowed to speak to him that way. And the response is usually “You started it, don’t you want your grandchildren to stand up for themselves?”. I did of course enjoin them to be a bit more respectful in private later.

Blogger justaguy June 01, 2018 8:11 PM  

#130: This argument is not about Boomers- whether or not they are rotten, wholly with the statist trying to bring on 1984 or not. It is about how to avoid drawing conclusions from what mainstream cultures tries to teach us-- about how to get actual data instead of what the "masters of the universe" and whoever runs Hollywood tries to place into our heads as norms. “Macro-level statistics” are exactly what I am trying to argue is necessary to draw conclusions about large groups. Infer from data, deduce from data and so on. What the Boomers say about themselves—begs the question about who is the spokesmen and who appointed them? Is what this spokesman saying a reliable representation of the group? This is really about using macro level data about a group to characterize that group.

Many macro level stats paint a bleak picture of the Boomers. Granted, but very few discussions about how bad Boomers are actually quote them or use them to paint the picture the writer is trying to get us to draw.

But discussion I am trying to have is not about the Boomers-- this blog already made its case-- great. This is about whether or not it a bunch of un-backed opinions have any worth (but YMMV) versus conclusions drawn from group data that might actually apply to the group being characterized.

My point, and after this post I’ll shut up about it, is that trying to characterize a big group normally requires big data not something where YMMV.

Blogger Republican Mother June 01, 2018 10:07 PM  

We are justified by the New Birth, and adopted into the family of God. Families meet in homes, this is an expression of the Gospel. The early church had low overhead, and did not meet in Greco-roman forums with phallic symbols on top.

Here's hoping Gen Z takes on Churchianity and its false spirit!

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 02, 2018 1:20 AM  

The good thing about Boomers is we're starting to die off.

Blogger James Pyrich June 02, 2018 7:31 PM  

VD wrote:

"What about MEEEEEEE?" cries the Boomer. Again.


... as he strikes you. With social security and medicare and shit.

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